►
From YouTube: DCash CBDC Launch: Update and Lessons Learned from Bitt
Description
In April 2021 The Eastern Caribbean Central Bank launched its live CBDC across several island nations. Bitt as the technology partner for this effort built and designed the CBDC which Stephen Phillips, VP of Special Projects, detailed for us in his previous presentation in early 2021 (view here https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CMSIG/2021-01-27). Now Stephen has returned to share their lessons learned so far and their exciting plans ahead to tackle the e-Naira, Nigeria's planned CBDC.
Hosted by the Hyperledger Capital Markets SIG
https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CMSIG/Capital+Markets+SIG
----
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A
A
I
mean
that's
in
a
nutshell,
what
it
says,
plus
giving
people
an
opportunity
to
talk,
other
people
opportunity
to
talk,
especially
when
you're
questioning
the
press
center
and
today's
presenter
is
stephen
phillips
who's,
no
stranger
to
us.
He
has
been
here
before
at
that
time.
He
was
talking
about
dxcd
the
rd
cash,
which
is
a
central
bank,
digital
currency
that
is
actually
in
production
or
in
pilot,
at
least
in
contrast
to
people
who
just
keep
talking
about
this
stuff.
A
A
B
So,
as
vipin
mentioned,
I
did
speak
a
few
months
ago,
where
I
did
a
presentation
and
there
were
a
number
of
interesting
slides
on
that
presentation.
I
encouraged
the
audience
to
visit
that
presentation
there.
I
talked
about
the
architecture
of
bits
technology
and
it
was
prior
to
go,
live
in
the
eastern,
caribbean
currency
union.
B
B
This
is
the
fintech
company
that
I'm
the
vice
president
of
special
projects
with
and
from
there.
We
will
talk
briefly
on
the
problem
that
the
digital
currency
was
developed
and
designed
to
solve,
and
we
want
to
get
to
the
lessons
learned
from
bringing
d
cash
this
cbdc
to
market
and
talk
about
some
of
the
key
lessons
that
we
learned
and
some
of
the
things
we
might
do
differently,
etc
as
we
progress
and
deploy
in
new
markets.
B
So
I
begin
with
a
brief
background.
One
bit
bit
was
founded
in
2013
in
2016
we
were
the
first
company
in
the
world
to
digitize
the
national
currency
on
blockchain,
and
we,
you
know,
that's
the
synthetic
cbdc
at
the
time
and
we
had
the
support
of
the
central
bank
governor
and
the
minister
of
finance.
B
B
Since
then,
2016
we've
continued
to
evolve
our
digital
currency
management
system
to
enable
central
banks
of
all
sizes
to
digitize
their
national
currency.
The
bit
dcms
digital
currency
management
system
includes
the
necessary
applications
for
all
major
stakeholders
to
transact
in
digital
currency.
So
that
includes
central
banks
as
the
monetary
authority,
the
financial
institutions,
merchants,
businesses
and
also
consumers.
So
it's
a
two-tier
system
that
we
have
currently
and
most
central
banks
globally.
B
Are
configuring
their
cbdc
deployments
in
the
two-tier
fashion,
so
bit
was
key
to
the
development
and
successful
launch
of
the
central
bank,
digital
currency
pilot
within
the
eastern
caribbean
currency
union,
and
that
is
managed
and
the
monetary
authority.
There
is
the
eastern
caribbean
central
bank,
this
technology,
this
new
digital
version
of
the
ec
currency
went
live
in
march
2021,
so
we're
just
about
at
the
six
month
mark
a
good
time
to
revisit
this
audience
and
talk
about
some
of
the
lessons
that
we've
learned
in
those
initial
six
months.
Then
school
life.
B
B
B
B
So
in
this
particular
demographic
of
users,
there
is
a
natural
disinclination
for
new
technologies,
especially
around
those
to
do
with
finances
we
have,
and
some
of
the
territories,
agent,
populations,
individuals
who
want
to
see
things
written
in
a
book,
etc.
So
launching
a
novel
technology
such
as
the
cbdc,
did
present
a
lot
of
challenges.
B
B
So
we
found
that
providing
users
with
clarity
around
the
advantages
and
can
encourage
them
to
think
about
the
value
of
the
product,
thereby
creating
demand
for
it,
which
I'll,
which
may
ultimately
drive
adoption
and
uptake
so
that
clarity
around
why
I
should
be
interested
in
this.
What
is
it
going
to
do
for
my
life?
How
is
it
going
to
benefit
me?
How
is
it
going
to
save
me
time
or
reduce
my
cost?
B
B
You
know,
as
you
could
imagine,
the
adoption
of
physical
notes
and
coins
issued
by
the
monetary
authority
has
been
a
legal
requirement,
so
they
haven't
had.
This
is
novel
for
central
banks
as
well
having
to
create
go
to
market
strategies,
marketing
campaigns
and
driving
adoption
of
a
digital
product.
B
So
what
we
found
working
alongside
dedicated
local
teams
of
experts
who
have
considerable
experience
bringing
financial
technology
project
products
to
market
was
very
beneficial
in
the
rollout
of
the
cash
and
we
see
that
in
other
markets,
where
we
have
our
cbdc's
being
deployed,
but
it
will
also
will
also
be
essential
in
ensuring
that
the
network
and
associated
applications
are
well
received
and
well
used
by
the
target.
Demographic
drawing
on
domestic
expertise
to
incorporate
regional
cultural
messages
and
tactics
is
also
very
important.
B
Gaining
insight
from
these
experts
and
involving
them
in
the
role
of
the
strategy
in
the
jurisdictions
can
help
ensure
operating
experience
is
leveraged,
is
leveraged
and
successful.
Behaviors
are
considered
and
adopted.
It's
therefore
important.
We
have
a
diverse
team
to
help
with
the
rollout
for
cbdc,
so
those
individuals
again
who
understand
the
market
very
well,
they
will
be
critical.
B
B
Central
central
banks
should
also
consider
involving
local
payment
service
providers
to
participate
in
cbdc
deployments.
Having
well-known
payments,
applications
integrate
with
a
cbdc
network
has
the
potential
to
provide
quicker
adoption
and
easier
on-boarding
for
customers
who
are
already
accustomed
to
sending
and
receiving
money
using
their
given
payment
service
providers
application.
B
They
will
likely,
however,
still
be
marketing
efforts
required
on
behalf
of
the
central
bank,
but
it
would
revolve
around
areas
better
suited
to
their
expertise,
such
as
education,
improving
financial
literacy,
economics
and
assurance,
as
opposed
to
having
the
central
bank
drive
user
adoption.
So
in
many
cases
the
consumers
wouldn't
even
be
aware
of
this.
They
would
be
using
the
same
application.
Go.
B
B
One
of
the
other
lessons
we
have
is
extending
the
reach
of
the
cash,
so
while
the
above
may
be
highly
useful
and
effective
for
seed
in
the
network,
and
it
is
somewhat
limited
to
the
fact
that
it
only
reaches
users
who
are
currently
serviced
by
financial
institutions
and
payment
services.
Providers
that
integrate
with
the
cbdc
network
users
may
very
well
already
be
more
inclined
and
accustomed
to
a
set
in
digital
project
products.
B
So
the
lesson
learned
here
is
leveraging
what
we
call
loosely
boots
on
the
ground.
So
this
is
a
physical
present
individuals
who
can
provide
in-person
outreach,
and
we
found
this
very
effective
with
see
on
the
cbc
cb,
the
eccb
engaged
with
bit
and
prepared
a
full
on
the
ground
outreach
campaign
across
the
jurisdictions
participating
in
the
pilot.
B
B
The
migration
of
existing
payment
systems
for
like
recurring
payments
benefits,
tax
refunds,
supply
chain,
etc.
Those
use
cases
were
very
useful
as
well
so
delivering
those
types
of
use,
use
cases
benefits.
Disbursements
requires
careful
consideration
so
as
not
to
disrupt
individuals
and
businesses
that
rely
on
those
payments.
B
So,
while
these
are
important
considerations,
we
also
don't
want
to
disrupt
the
lives
of
of
users.
So,
in
closing,
looking
ahead
as
central
banks
continue
to
design
develop
and
deploy
their
cbdc
systems,
a
variety
of
stakeholders
will
need
to
collaborate.
It's
a
big
effort
and
collaboration
is
key
to
leverage
those
lessons
learned.
B
Those
with
extensive
knowledge
about
the
local
economy,
culture
and
financial
system
will
collaborate
with
firms
who
have
the
expertise
enroll
in
all
digital
payments,
products
and
services,
who
will
in
turn
collaborate
with
the
central
bank
and
the
regulated
financial
institutions
and
payment
services
providers
in
the
financial
system.
It
is
important
to
keep
in
mind
that
the
economic
needs.
The
economics
need
to
be
sound
for
the
financial
institutions
and
payment
services
providers
to
also
offer
their
services
that
leverage
the
cbdc
infrastructure
as
well
all
right.
Thank
you.
So
much.
A
A
C
You
know,
apologies,
I
didn't
mean
to
ask
to
redo
your
talk.
I
think
that
there
are
probably
some
real
pain
points
that
that
you
know
when
you
went
through.
Maybe
the
talk
was
a
bit
more,
the
tops
of
the
waves
kind
of
presentation,
you
know
something
specifically
like
you
would
either
wish
you
would
never
wish
you
had
done
more
of
or
wish
you
would
never
do
again.
B
B
So
it's
you
know
it's
typical
for
go
to
market
strategies
with
fintechs,
so
you
know
you
need
to
deliver
that
minimal
lovable
product.
What
key
set
of
features
do
you
need
to
have
to
ensure
the
success
of
the
project
at
go
live
so
that
could
be
a
particular
user
journey,
a
particular
use
case
that
will
resonate
with
the
target
demographic.
B
To
give
an
example,
bill
payment
is
one
use
case
that
a
bit
we
found
very
pivotal
for
driving
adoption.
I
myself
use
these
products
for
bill
payment.
I
mean
I
can
sit
at
home.
I
can
find
my
wallet
and
I
can
pay
my
bills
and
I'm
still
on
the
couch,
and
it's
amazing-
and
I
can
do
it
all
from
my
mobile
app
and
for
this
particular
jurisdiction.
B
You
know,
that's
the
key
value
proposition
that
you
can
convince
the
population
hey.
You
should
get
this
product,
because
this
would
allow
you
to
do
x,
y
or
z.
So,
having
that
clarity
and
messaging,
I
think,
is
something
that
you
definitely
need
to
have
when
people
think
about
the
product.
They
need
to
understand
why
it's
important
for
them
to
know
about
this
product
and
to
consider
participating
using
the
product
leveraging
the
local
expertise.
One
of
the
points
I
mentioned
is
also
super
important.
B
So
having
those
stakeholders
who
may
be
bio-tested
who've,
you
know
those
fintechs
who
may
be
battle
tested,
who
may
understand
their
customers
very
well.
Bringing
them
along
for
the
ride,
letting
them
participate
is
also.
I,
in
my
opinion,
very
important
because
they
bring
a
lot
of
expertise.
They
already
have
brand
identity
built
up
and
having
them
participate
also
adds
value
to
them
and
to
the
cbdc.
B
Ideally,
you
want
a
very
inclusive
ecosystem,
where
different
participants
like
fintechs
and
payment
services
providers,
can
leverage
the
cbdc
infrastructure
to
provide
a
safer
asset
than
a
mobile
money
token
or
a
private
synthetic
cbd,
cbdc,
and
then
the
one
of
the
things
we
would
definitely
use
again
is
that
concept
of
boots
on
the
ground,
individuals,
who
can
actually
go
visit,
merchants
give
them
a
demo,
show
them
tangibly
how
it
works,
how
it
can
add
value
to
their
business.
That's
also
super
important.
I
mean
you
can
watch
an
ad
on
youtube.
B
You
can
see
something
in
the
press
in
the
paper,
but
until
someone
brings
it
to
you
in
a
way
that
you
can
absorb
it,
you
may
have
problems
adopting
it.
It
just
seems
like
something
out
there
in
the
ether,
but
having
that
person
bring
it
to
you
and
show
you
how
it
can
add
value
to
your
business,
how
it
can
transform
your
business
with
maybe
e-commerce
payments
or
reducing
the
need
to
have
physical
cash
and
to
manage
physical
cash.
These
types
of
impersonal
reach,
or
you
know
I
can't
overstate
it
enough.
B
You
know
people
may
have
some
technology
hesitancy
and
having
someone
face
to
face
to
break
it
down
for
them.
I
I
think
that
that
that's
super
important
in
this
jurisdiction.
It
may
not
be
the
case
in
all
jurisdictions,
but
these
are
some
of
the
lessons
that
we
we
will
take
with
us
as
we
move
to
other
jurisdictions.
B
D
D
B
With
regards
to
the
level
of
engagement,
the
volume
of
transactions,
it's
been
steadily
growing,
as
you
could
imagine.
You
know
the
global
pandemic
covet
19
that
has
really
driven
adoption
aggressively
businesses
now
want
to
do
more
online.
They
want
to
learn
about
it.
E-Commerce
solutions
play
a
big
role,
especially
in
the
eastern
caribbean
currency
union,
where
traditional
e-commerce
solutions
were
generally
prohibitive.
C
B
Local
in
quotes,
a
local
infrastructure
that
can
facilitate
e-commerce
payments
was
also
pivotal
and
driven
great
adoption
and
again,
having
those
specific
use
cases
being
able
to
pay
your
bills
being
able
to
purchase
online
using
the
e-commerce
solution
that
we
provide.
These
are
super
important
for
driving
adoption,
so
the
pilot
in
this
case
has
limits
around
adoption.
The
central
bank
wants
to
use
this
period
to
test
so
they
you
know
it
is
a
pilot
by
invitation
only,
and
we
are
definitely
hitting
those
numbers
with
regards
to
merchants.
B
We
are
all
over
subscriber
merchants
at
the
moment
and
consumers
as
well.
So
it's
going
very
well.
Transactions
still
need
to
see
some
improvement,
but
the
eccb
is
looking
to
address
that
with
a
broader
marketing
campaign.
So
it's
not
as
great
as
we
would
like
to
see
it,
but
it
isn't
bad
and
it's
going
very
well.
D
B
D
D
B
Financial
inclusion
plays
a
role
and
then
some
of
the
efficiencies
that
can
be
had
from
a
cbdc
are
kind
of
convincing
central
banks
to
move
faster.
So
I
would
suggest
that
you
know
any
jurisdiction.
You
know.
Large
numbers
of
jurisdictions,
upwards
of
80
from
the
last
bank
for
international
settlements
survey
show
that
many
of
the
central
banks
globally
monetary
authorities
globally
are
investigating
cbdc's,
it's
also
important
to
plug
hyperledger.
A
C
Seems
hi
thanks
for
the
presentation
very
interesting.
One
question
I
have
is:
does
the
solution
you
are
presenting?
Does
that
does
solution
work
offline
because
we're
looking
at
this
from
from
a
european
perspective?
And
of
course,
and
and
basically
we
seem
to
come
to
the
conclusion
that
if
you
really
want
to
have
a
cash
alternative,
you
need
to
have
something
that
works
fully
offline.
But
then
the
question
is
you
know?
How
do
you
implement
aml
kyc
checks
offline
as
well?
A
B
Sure
so
we
are
currently
developing
an
offline
solution,
it's
kind
of
the
unicorn
of
the
space.
It's
not
an
easy
solution
to
implement
because
it
introduces
additional
risk.
If
you
don't,
if
you
don't,
you
know,
risk
for
double
spend,
etc.
If
you
don't
implement
it
properly,
so
we
are
currently
filing
for
some
parents
for
this.
So
I
really
can't
discuss
too
much.
B
However,
I
will
say
that
it's
in
the
works-
and
I
can
offer
that
the
bank
of
canada
has
released
some
interest
in
papers
around
opportunities
for
offline
payments.
Looking
at
specific
hardware
as
one
option
as
well
as
this
central
bank
of
bahamas,
they've
they've
implemented
a
separate
infrastructure
to
facilitate
payments
where
the
internet
is
not
available.
B
So
in
a
nutshell,
there
are
a
few
paths
you
can
take
for
offline
payments.
You
know
with
a
with
a
ledger:
that's
online
settlement
still
needs
to
happen
on
that
ledger.
Unless
you
want
the
ledger
to
reside
on
the
mobile
devices,
so
it's
a
very
complex
problem.
No
one
in
market
has
actually
solved
this.
Yet
one
of
the
things
that
the
the
competition
with
monetary
authority
is
singapore,
I
think
offline
solutions.
B
A
A
A
A
A
So
I
I
just
wanted
to
put
that
out
there,
because
we
have
that
material
in
our
presentations
and
I
can
actually
put
that
up
in
the
in
the
meeting
minutes
so
that
people
can
actually
link
to
those
presentations
to
see
the
offline
capabilities,
and
I
noticed
that
a
couple
of
people
here
are
working
on
that
problem.
But
I
think
the
guy
who
I
wanted
to
invoke
is
not
around
right
now,
because
he
is
the
vice
chair
of
the
financial
inclusion
task
force
in
dcgi.
A
You
know,
and
nigeria
is
of
course
well
known
for
some
other
activities
which
we
shall
not
go
into
right
now,
but
which
should
be
a
problem
for
something
like
a
central
bank,
digital
currency.
So
my
question
is:
how
do
you
you
know
in
besides
scaling
this
solution
or
taking
the
solution
to
africa
to
nigeria,
in
particular,
from
your
experience
in
eccb.
B
Yeah,
thank
you
for
the
question
so,
of
course,
being
able
to
scale
the
solution
effectively
was
a
big
kind
of
determining
factor
for
the
central
bank
bank
of
nigeria.
In
choosing
that
you
know,
nigeria
has
over
200
million
people
and
the
idea
is
for
most,
if
not
all,
of
these
citizens
that
have
access
to
inera
so
scaling.
B
The
infrastructure
is
important
and
we've
been
able
to
demonstrate
through
low
testing,
etc
that
we
can
definitely
meet
the
demand
using
hyperledger
fabric,
at
least
for
no,
given
the
existing
projections
that
the
central
bank
has
purported
for
determining
their
selection.
So,
in
a
nutshell,
we
use
a
cloud
infrastructure
for
for
this
deployment
and
we're
able
to
scale
that
effectively
to
meet
the
transactions
per
second
requirements
that
the
central
bank
had
put
out
there.
B
B
Currently,
not
public,
but
we
will
likely
publish
something
soon
and
there
are.
There
are
a
number
of
opportunities
within
hyperledger
itself
for
performance
scaling
as
well,
so
not
just
adding
new
nodes
and
orders
and
and
validators.
But
there
are
other
configurations
within
hyperledger.
You
know
you
can
modify
various
things
like
block
size
and
you
know
various
other
key
components
to
facilitate
the
transaction
velocity
that
you
that
you
need
to
see.
A
A
The
other
is
doing
things
on
the
front
end
that
group
the
transactions
in
different
ways.
The
third
is
creating
a
faster
processing
using
two
things.
One
is
cryptographic
acceleration
using
gpus,
which
is
work
engaged
with
xilinx,
which
have
now
they
have
now
taken
over
the
performance
and
scale
working
group.
The
other
is
the
work
done
by
oracle,
where
they
created
in-memory
databases
rather
than
databases
that
are
that
have
to
store
their
transactions.
A
B
We're
still
on
an
earlier
version,
and
just
because
of
the
fact
that
we
needed
to
move
quickly
at
this
point
in
time.
But
as
you
remember,
our
infrastructure
is
lightly
coupled
to
the
blockchain.
So
it
allows
us
to
upgrade
very
easily.
So
we
do
have
on
our
internal
roadmap.
The
need
for
upgrading-
and
I
also
note
that
fabric
from
2.0
onwards
has
has
more
support
for
for
tokens,
which
is
something
that
we
are
also
looking
at
and
considering
as
well.
A
Presentation
by
oracle
on
tokens,
which,
which
covers
a
lot
of
ground
two
things,
one
is
use
of
standards
to
create
the
token
like
iwa
standards,
but
also
linked
to
that
is
the
use
of
the
most
commonly
used
standards
in
ethereum,
brc20,
erc,
721,
erc
1155,
erc
1150,
I
mean
so
they
have
created
a
parallel
implementation
of
these
standards.
Using
these
two
techniques
on
hypoallergenic
fabric,
I
don't
know
whether
they,
that
is
a
public
of
meaning,
open
source
or
not.
A
B
So,
interestingly,
tokenization
is
probably
also
one
of
the
opportunities
for
offline,
because,
if
you
can
yes,
if
you
can
create
or
without
saying
too
much,
if
you
can
find
a
way
for
your
cbdc
to
become
a
true
bearer
instrument.
And
if
you
know
what
I'm
saying
you
know
what
I'm
saying
then,
that
that
really
advances
the
opportunity
for
offline
payments,
because
you're
trans
literally
transferring
value
from
phone
to
phone.
A
A
B
Yeah
and
that
that
was
one
of
the
key
reasons
why
we
went
to
hyperledger
fabric,
because
you
know,
there's
a
whole
community,
keeping
it
safe
and
advancing
the
technology.
It
allows
bit
as
a
company
to
focus
on
the
layers
above
the
blockchain
to
add
value
to
clients
and
the
the
the
blockchain
it
becomes
like
a
database
almost
so
that
was
one
of
the
key
key
factors
for
us
as
well.
The
open
source
ability.
A
Well,
just
having
open
source
is
not
enough
to
protect
the
protect
anything
that
is
being
done
with
that
infrastructure,
as
we
have
seen.
First
of
all,
you
know.
Most
companies
have
are
using
open
source,
even
though
they
are
not
even
aware
of
it,
because
underneath
it
goes
down
into
the
bowels,
if
you
even
use
linux
or
any
any
open
source
technology
there.
A
What
kind
of
continuous
monitoring
or
auditing
processes
that
you
you
have
in
order
to
detect
such
attacks
when
they
are
in
progress?
That's
the
first
question.
Second
question:
what
if
you
detect
those
attacks,
do
you
have
a
way
to
short-circuit
or
pause
the
infrastructure
so
that
large
amounts
are
not
drained
in
a
short
period
of
time?
This
technique
is
used
in,
let
us
say
in
in
even
in
stock
exchanges,
because
when
a
when
a
stock
falls
by
a
certain
huge
percentage
in
a
short
period
of
time,
they
disallow
any
more.
A
B
Sure
so,
security.
I
know
enough
of
security
to
know
that
you
know
you
need
to
be
an
expert
in
security
and
we
do
have
those
experts
on
staff
and
the
central
banks,
our
clients.
They
also
employ
those
experts.
So
I
can
tell
you
that
we
do
have
real-time
monitoring
through
third-party
service
providers,
as
well
as
inbuilt
monitoring
provided
by
the
cloud
providers
as
well.
So
there
are
multiple
layers
of
monitoring
and
support.
B
B
We
are
the
service
provider,
we
provide
the
infrastructure,
but
the
central
bank
handles
most
of
the
operations,
so
they
have
the
ability
to
pause
the
infrastructure.
If
something
isn't
right
or
if
they
are,
they
want
to
limit
the
impact
of
any
nefarious
activity
on
the
network.
They
can
definitely
do
that.
A
In
fact,
when
we
created
ethalar
project
in
inside
hyperledger
labs
as
a
subproject
of
capital
markets
group
money,
I
see
money
on
the
on
the
call
he
implemented
most
of
it.
I
helped
a
little
bit,
but
the
main
thing
that
we
did
was
we
were
able
to
call
this
function
pause,
but
I
think
forgetting
that
the
so-called
security
experts.
A
B
Yes,
so
yes,
on
that
point,
it's
been
very
good
working
with
the
central
bank
of
nigeria
because
they
have,
as
you
mentioned
before,
quite
an
advanced
payment
system
infrastructure,
so
they
are
have
been
sharing
some
of
the
tools
and
mitigations
that
they
have
in
place
to
help
shore
up
the
cbdc
infrastructure
as
well.
They've
been
coming
with
additional
requirements
and
additional
things
that
they
see
could
be
useful
to
help
and
that's
been
very
useful
as
well
having
that
expertise
from
them.
A
C
Yeah,
thank
you
so
much
steven
for
joining
us
today.
It's
so
great
to
hear
about
your
experience
and
really
hear
about
the
lessons
learned
like
we
really.
You
know
there
aren't
many
live
cbdc's
and
so
to
hear
from
your
perspective
on
how
it's
been
going
and
what
you
would
do
differently
next
time
is
so
valuable
to
our
community.
B
C
From
your
from
your
point
of
view,
working
on
a
live
cbdc
and
seeing
you
know
all
the
different
experimentations
being
done
out
there,
you
know
there's
a
the
recent
bis
speech
from
benoit
correa
talking
about
how
central
banks
need
to
accelerate.
So
just
kind
of
from
your
perspective,
where
how
you
see
this
is
going
to
accelerate
in
the
next
year
or
so.
B
B
I
think
that's
something
that
we
may
see
some
additional
progress
on
in
the
in
the
next
few
years.
As
we
see
dependency
on
the
us
dollar,
there
are
lots.
There's
lots
of
conversation
on
reducing
the
dependency
on
the
us
dollar
as
a
kind
of
a
real
for
for
cross-border
payments.
So
being
able
to
do,
atomic
transfers
between
cbdc's
is
something
that
I
think
we
may
start
to
see
some
more
of
in
the
next
12
to
16
months.