►
Description
An international expert panel discussed this timely and increasingly important subject of how blockchain can help protect consumer rights in the digital era, explored the latest developments in key issues including product provenance, traceability, consumer privacy, data protection, a very different kind of NFT and more ....
Panelist
- Brian Behlendorf, Executive Director, Hyperledger , The Linux Foundation
Dr. Whitfield Diffie, Senior Advisor, Findora Advanced Research Center, cryptography Pioneer + one of the inventors of public key cryptography, cryptography legend + cybersecurity visionary + Turing award winner
- Leanne Kemp , CEO of Everledger
- Joshua Q. Israel Satten, Blockchain Partner – North America, Wipro
A powerful webinar organised by Hyperledger and BSN! Really inspirational, insightful and incredible.
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
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#Hyperledger #Blockchain
A
Okay,
I
think
I'm
now
going
to
kick
it
off
so
good
morning
and
good
afternoon,
everyone
in
asia,
pacific
and
good
afternoon
to
all
those
in
the
us
and
good
evening
to
those
and
to
those
I
think
I
know
a
few
attending
from
europe,
so
that's
ridiculously
early
in
the
morning,
so
welcome
to
you
as
well.
I'm
julian
gordon
I'm,
the
vp
for
asia,
pacific
hyperledger
and
I'm
delighted
to
be
here
today
introducing
this
really
special
hyperledger
and
bsn
webinar.
A
If
you
have
any
questions
during
the
webinar,
please
use
the
q
a
function
you
can
see
at
the
bottom
of
the
screen
here
in
the
zoom
chat.
Please
submit
them
there
we're
going
to
gather
those
questions
and
maybe
answer
some
as
we
go
along
and
then
we're
going
to
have
a
q
a
at
the
end,
and
with
that
I'd
like
to
ask
each
panelist
to
briefly
introduce
yourselves
and
your
role
in
this
area,
so
we're
going
to
go
in
alphabetical
order.
So
I
think
we're
going
to
start
with
you,
brian.
C
E
I'm
an
old
cryptographer
I've
been
working
on
this
field
now
for
just
on.
I
guess
it's
actually
49
years
this
summer,
and
I
have
been
all
of
that
time
involved
with
the
issue
of
how
high
tech
and
how
cryptography
security
etc
affect
individual
rights
and
individual
privacy,
and
so
I
have,
by
the
nature
of
things,
migrated
into
a
concern
with
blockchain
as
one
of
the
latest
critical
elements
of
this
issue.
A
Thank
you
thank
you
and,
if
you
don't
remember,
I
was
at
sun
microsystems
when
you
were
there,
you
have
a
definitely
we
we
all
know
about
whitfield's
a
great
career
right
and
look
forward
to
your
your
insight
and
what
a
great
panel.
So
I
think
what
I'm
gonna
do
is
I'm
gonna
set
the
scene
or
we're
gonna
set
the
scene.
You
know
where
are
we
today?
What
are
the
key
issues
facing
consumers
and
consumers
rights
in
the
digital
era,
so
why?
A
B
Well,
I
think
the
the
meta
theme
here
is
is
around
trust
and
really
the
collapse
of
trust
in
brands,
the
collapse
of
trust
in
institutions,
the
collapse
of
trust
in
the
systems
of
the
world.
Maybe
it's
not
all
dire
like
that,
but
if
you
ask
people
today,
how
much
do
you
trust
major
major
product
brand
names
to
never
mistakenly
put
shrimp
parts
into
your
breakfast
cereal
to
touch
on
a
a
topic
du
jour?
B
You
know
that
that
trust
has
probably
taken
a
beating
quite
a
bit
or
how
much
do
you
trust
the
government
to
be
able
to
adequately
inspect
the
products
that
are
crossing
the
borders
or
to
you
know,
inspect
that
restaurant
that
you're
eating
at
that
sort
of
thing?
That's
probably
also
suffered
quite
a
hit,
and
so
one
element
of
that
trust
is
certainly
in
the
area
of
providence
and
we'll
hear
a
lot
about
that
tonight.
I
don't
want
to
steal
anyone's
thunder.
B
I
think
another
aspect
of
that
in
a
digital
space,
though,
is
knowing
who
you're
dealing
with
online,
whether
they
actually
are.
They
say
they
are
if
or
if
there's
fraud
inherent
in
that,
but
secondly,
this
kind
of
erosion
and
trust
when
it
comes
to
the
management
of
your
personal
information
and
gdpr
didn't
seem
to
to
quite
fix
that.
Yet
all
the
other
privacy
regs,
you
know
seem
to
just
add
a
click
here
to
accept
cookies
kind
of
thing,
and
I
have
to
give
a
maya
culpa
as
one
of
the
co-co-inventors
of
the
cookie.
B
We
called
it
the
state
header
back
in
94
when
I
proposed
it,
and
then
it
was
implemented
by
lumon
tully
as
the
cookie
header
in
netscape.
Let's
get
a
navigator
earlier
version
of
that
we
didn't
think
it
would
be
used
for
third-party
tracking.
It
came
up.
We
were
like
nobody
would
do
this
right,
that'd
be
kind
of
creepy.
B
Well,
it
got
normalized
and
we
ended
up
where
we
are,
and
so
we
have
to
think
about
how
to
fundamentally
reinvent
how
consumer
privacy
works
online,
and
that
is,
ironically,
very
tied
to
the
providence
question
very
closely
tied
to
being
able
to
prove
when
you
need
to
that.
You
have
title
to
a
thing
or
that
a
thing
has
followed
a
certain
trace
or
when
you
do
want
to
share
data,
that
you
can
share
it
selectively
and
with
full
consent.
B
C
D
Look
there's
so
much
to
be
said
about
knowing
your
customer
and
you
know
in
the
forefront
of
thinking.
We
also
have
consumer
consciousness.
These
really
big
questions
that
people
are
asking
and
that's
driving.
Of
course,
the
change
in
supply
chains,
parts
of
the
work
in
everledger
is
being
able
to
link
a
digital
identity
to
a
physical
object,
and
one
could
say
you
could
do
that
in
various
different
ways.
D
Diamonds
have
a
puff
physical
unclonable
features
that
reside
in
on
the
object
itself
and
within
the
object.
So
how
do
you
capture
through
various
methods
of
scanning
or
machine
vision,
resonant
ultrasound,
different
types
of
identifying
technologies
and
then
link
those
together
financial
services
at
the
forefront
of
identifying
customers?
The
kyc?
A
E
Well,
I
take
things
from
a
very
broad
standpoint:
okay
and
I
see
humanity
as
doing
something
it
hasn't
done
in
the
last
seven
thousand
years.
Seven
thousand
years
ago
we
moved
into
cities
and,
prior
to
that,
you'd
really
lived
in
the
natural
world
and
once
you've
moved
into
cities,
you
could
live
all
the
time.
A
Yeah,
so
I
think
I
I
I
love,
I
love
what
what
phil's
saying
there.
You
know
there's
a
lot
on
our
shoulders
right
for
the
future
right,
so
we
are
going
to
and
there's
lots
of
unintended
consequences,
I'm
sure
of
our
actions
right.
So
you
have
to
think
this
through.
So
I
think
from
from
the
kind
of
study
and
what
we're
looking
at
this
kind
of
two.
A
If
we're
going
to
try-
and
you
know,
model
the
the
things
we're
doing-
there's
two
kind
of
areas
there's
one
around
provenance
and
then
there
is
around
privacy
and
how
we
manage
our
privacy
within
that
within
the
digital
era.
So
I
think
if
we
start
with
the
with
the
providence-
and
I
think
I'm
going
to
hand
this
to
the
end,
because
this
is
really
ann's
kind
of
area.
D
It's
a
noisy
space
and
a
busy
time
right
now
and
there's
a
lot
to
be
said
about
the
work
that
was
started
in
the
last
decade.
That's
now,
starting
to,
of
course,
permeate
across
many
different
supply
chains.
There's
no
secrets
about
the
work
that
everledger
started
in
2015
in
the
traceability
of
diamonds
and
coloured
gemstones,
but
some
of
the
greatest
challenges
for
us
were
less
about
the
application
of
technology
and
more
to
corral,
wet
cats
within
an
industry.
D
And
I
would
guess
the
diamond
industry
has
that
with
the
united
nations
coming
together
15
odd
years
ago,
creating
the
kimberley
process
81
countries
two
times
a
year
every
year
for
the
past
15
years,
decided
in
a
pre-competitive
space
that
blood
diamonds
was
no
longer
the
the
way
upon
which
anyone
should
trade,
and
so
that
human
system
has
now
evolved
without
the
elements
of
technology
to
help
accelerate
them
or
escalate
them.
But
at
the
very
core
of
the
diamond
industry
also
resides
upon
the
fact
that
diamonds
are
unique,
they're
a
snowflake.
D
I
guess
we've
done
that
well
in
terms
of
understanding
the
identity
of
humans,
because
we're
able
to
call
upon
forensic
science
to
know
who
we
are,
I
can
change
my
name.
I
can
change
my
driver's
license.
I
can
do
that
by
ways
of
nefarious
means
or
legal
means,
but
it's
really
the
identity
of
of
who
I
am
at
the
dna
level
of
the
diamond.
That
enables
us
to
be
able
to
do
this
without
trusting
an
intermediary
technology
in
the
enablement
of
that
identity,
and
I
guess
that's
another
piece
to
understand
rfid
nfc
near
field
communications.
D
D
It
is
has
to
come
together
in
a
symphony
of
technologies
and
an
orchestrated
set
of
events
to
enable
that
to
be
seen
to
be
true,
and
so
it's
hyper
complicated,
but
it's
so
desperately
needed
now,
and
I
think
there
are
many
companies
that
are
doing
far
greater
work
than
ever
ledger
in
this
space.
We
just
happen
to
be
humbly
focused
in
an
area
that
we
know
needs
it.
D
We
also
know
the
human
system
can
evolve
it
and
that
we
can
hopefully
become
a
guiding
star
on
how
to
go
about
the
implementation
of
these
technologies
in
an
industry.
That's
500
years
in
the
making,
they
still
rely
on
a
gentleman's
handshake,
a
chip
of
paper
and
a
promise
to
pay
and
that
works
in
a
closed
system.
But
it
doesn't
also
work
from
a
global
system.
E
E
Well,
some
diamond
producing
countries
managed
to
condemn
others
as
having
you
know:
crummy
governments,
crummy
economy,
they
fight
wars
or
whatever
it
is
that
the
blood
comes
from,
and
I
heard
about
blood
diamonds.
I
had
to
wonder
why
shouldn't
I
wear
blood
diamonds,
I
mean
I
run
blood
software.
I
drive
blood
cars,
I
mean
the
countries
I'm
associated
with,
do
all
sorts
of
crummy
things.
So
how
did
it
get?
You
know?
I
think
the
critical
point
is
all
the
diamonds
are
about.
E
A
E
B
Okay-
and
I
think,
there's
there's
two
things
that
are
accomplished
by
using
a
distributed,
ledger
or
blockchain
to
track
provenance.
One
is
a
clear
history
of
signed
testimony
as
to
the
path
that
that
took
right.
You
know
that
at
least
you're
you're
you're
told
that
there's
an
inspector
who
signed
off
on
this
diamond
factory
or
this
supplier
is
not
having
received
stolen
product
right
or
not.
Having
deployed
slave
labor
on
the
ground
right
and
that's
a
testimony
that
could
have
been
fraudulent
that
could
have
been
bought
off
whatever.
B
But
what
you
don't
have
is
proof
that
that
slave
labor
wasn't
used.
What
you
have
is
proof
of
testimony
from
somebody
and
there's
a
lot
more
work
to
do
to
make
sure
that
that
testimony
is
worth
the
the
bits
it's
written
on,
but
there
is
that
second
fundamental
property
of
blockchains,
which
is
prevention
of
double
spent
right.
B
All
this
data
with
the
central
registry
and-
and
you
know,
have
the
unblessed
or
have
you
know
some
international
org
blessed
as
like
the
the
system
of
record.
Instead,
now
we
can,
as
an
industry
in
the
diamond
industry,
or
these
other
industries
hold
each
other
accountable
to
the
integrity
of
that
providence.
History.
C
Yeah,
I
would
very
much
agree
on
a
real-life
basis.
We've
worked
with
a
few
companies
in
very
tangible
ways
around
provenance
that
are
more
day-to-day
one
being
in
relation
to
wonder
bread
in
terms
of
a
client
being
able
to
scan
the
barcode
on
a
package
of
bread
and
being
able
to
certify
that
the
bakery
was
a
good
bakery
that
all
the
ingredients
from
the
flour
being
milled
to
the
milk
being
used
or
the
eggs
were
all
organically
produced,
so
that
when
the
when
the
company
does
label
it
organic,
they
can
say.
C
Yes,
I
can
see
a
full
track
and
trace
of
all
the
ingredients
that
were
used
here
and
that
they
were
organic
upstream
as
well.
Similarly,
we
worked
with
a
large
printer
company
around
ink
cartridges
where
they
were
finding.
There
was
an
issue
that
their
ink
cartridge
boxes
were
being
stolen,
the
ink
cartridges
were
being
taken
out
and
sell
separately
and
then
duplicate
or
counterfeit
cartridges
would
be
being
put
in
the
real
boxes.
C
So
you
needed
a
way
to
track
and
trace
to
the
nth
level
that
when
the
client
was
receiving
the
printer
cartridge,
it
wasn't
just
a
good
box,
but
also
a
good
cartridge
and
also
we
see
the
example
with
a
walmart
from
a
track
and
trace
perspective.
That
if
there's
been
a
food
recall,
you
want
to
be
able
to
notify
your
customers
or
clients
immediately.
Let
them
know
whether
or
not
they
are
safe
or
need
to
take
concern
or.
E
E
A
So
I
think
I
think
we're
definitely
providence
isn't
is
is
something
that
needs
to
be.
I
think
we've
kind
of
determined
that
I
I
like
the
fact
that
you're
asking,
I
think,
you're
asking
the
question,
is
you
know
whether
you
want
to
use
a
blood
diamond
or
not?
That's,
that's
something
you
decide,
but
the
great
thing
is
you
can't
the
thing
issue
today?
Is
you
can't
decide
if
you?
If
I
have
an
ethical
decision,
I
don't
want
to
take
a.
I
don't
have
a
bloodline.
I
should
be
able
to
make
that
decision
today.
A
C
B
And
and
a
halfway
point
between
those
two
is
being
able
to
have
parties
that
you
trust
able
to
independently
verify.
So
I
subscribe
to
consumer
reports
and
consumers
international
and
they
do
a
lot
of
third-party
auditing
and
validation
of
the
sources
and
materials
and
the
things
I
read
the
wire
cutter,
the
new
york
times
kind
of
review
site
where
they
do
breakdowns
constantly
and
kind
of
look
at
how
pieces
come
together
and
as
long
as
these
ledgers
do
allow
for
that
independent
verification.
B
A
Definitely
so
I
think
that
okay,
so
that's
provenance.
I
think
that's
definitely
something
that
that
a
little
bit
more
on
that.
But
now,
let's
look
at,
I
think
what
he
mentioned
is
privacy.
So
that's
the
other
big
consumer
rights
issue.
I
think
whether
you
call
it
rights
issue
or
whatever.
That
is
the
issue,
so
do
what,
who
do
you
want
to
take
down
brian,
maybe
initially
and
then
witty,
or
vice
versa,.
B
But
I
I
and
I
kind
of
threw
the
gauntlet
down,
so
I'm
interested
in
what
what
others
do
say.
But
the
thing
that
gets
me
excited
is
the
prospect
of
self-sovereign
identity
or
user-centric
identity.
If
you
want
to
call
it
that
which,
in
some
ways,
harkens
back
to
more
of
a
pgp
web
of
trust
kind
of
model
for
how
to
build
trust
online
looks
a
little
bit
like
how
browser
certificates
work,
but
but
radically
decentralizes.
B
That
and
the
basic
idea
is
this:
instead
of
everything,
that's
interesting
about
you
sitting
on
the
other
end
of
a
name
and
password
that
you
have
connecting
you
into.
You
know
your
profile
linkedin,
for
example
right
rather
than
maintaining
a
profile
there
and
having
to
update
all
that
information.
B
What
if
you
had
certificates
that
attested
to
your
employment
status
at
your
history
of
employers,
your
educational
accomplishments,
right
your
perhaps
other
fundamental
information
about
you
that
represents
signed
documents
from
others,
but
things
that
you
hold
innately,
rather
than
hoping
that
somebody
at
the
other
end
of
that
name
and
password,
didn't
delete
or
ignore
that
they
don't
go
out
of
business.
That
sort
of
thing-
and
so
this
idea
of
kind
of
a
very
wallet-centric
point
of
view-
I've
got
these
documents
there.
B
They
say
things
about
me:
they
might
even
be
passports
and
drivers
licenses
or
proof
of
vaccination,
which
is
a
very
hot
topic
right
now.
So
how
do
we
share
those
with
others
in
a
way
that
allows
that
to
be
validated
without
the
issuer
of
those
documents
being
notified?
When
I
use
it
that
is
important
to
try
to
avoid
a
surveillance
economy,
type
of
situation
right?
B
How
do
I
even
perhaps
share
it
with
julian
and
whitfield
and
joshua
and
leanne
in
ways
that,
if
they're
independent
businesses
don't
allow
them
to
collude
to
build
a
profile
of
me
right?
I
all
these
are
really
sensitive
and
important
things
that
we
see
being
dealt
with
in
the
self-sovereign
identity
community.
We
at
hyperledger
have
built
a
number
of
technologies
to
help
with
this
they're
built
on
these
standards.
Like
dids
someone
mentioned
in
the
commons
comments,
which
is
a
w3c
standard.
B
Actually,
the
decentralized
identity
foundation,
bunch
of
others
helped
build
out,
did
methods
there's
the
verifiable
credential
standard
of
the
w3c.
These
are
the
building
blocks,
the
urls
and
html
of
kind
of
reinventing
how
the
digital
identity
ecosystem
can
work.
The
biggest
question
is:
will
consumers
want
this?
Will
they
understand
it?
Can
we
use
skeuomorphic
metaphors,
like
wallet
to
help
them
understand
how
to
manage
this?
They
hate
complexity,
they
love
the.
B
The
idea
of
all
my
stuff
is
at
google
and
apple,
and
this
requires
a
little
bit
more
puts
a
lot
more
agency
in
their
hands,
but
requires
a
little
bit
more
responsibility.
I
think
in
managing
that
data
and
and
managing
one's
keys,
but
if
we
get
this
right,
this
is
the
key
to
inverting
the
the
power
relationship
out
there,
between
consumers
and
and
and
and
big
websites,
and
getting
to
a
much
more
decentralized
internet.
A
E
One
of
the
first
thoughts
that
these
things
brings
up
brings
up,
in
my
mind,
is
what
you
have.
What
do
you
have
the
right,
the
right
to
have
by
way
of
agents
serving
your
interests
as
a
as
a
so
to
speak,
private,
individual
and,
I
think,
roughly
speaking,
we
have
accepted,
and
I
have
great
doubts
about
it.
The
notion!
Well,
you
don't
necessarily
have
the
right
to
have
a
computer
represent
you
that
the
people
you're
talking
to
have
a
right,
so
to
speak.
E
To
know
that
you
was
your
hand
on
the
mouse
or
something
like
that,
and
at
the
moment
you
know,
that's
something
that's
moderately
testable,
but
I
I
would,
I
think,
a
very
plausible
say
well
wait
a
moment.
This
is
this.
Is
outrageous
the
notion
that
something
something
that
runs
programs
to
deal
with
you
can
come
and
say:
oh
no,
you
can't
deal
with
me
through
programs.
You
have
to
deal
with
me
directly.
E
So
loosely
speaking,
you
know,
google
is
a
thing
that
has.
It
may,
in
some
sense,
not
be
as
inventive
as
I
am
talking
about
the
computers,
not
the
staff,
but
the
other
hand
knows
a
lot
more
right.
So
I
think
many
kinds
of
creatures
are
going
to
appear
and
interact
in
this
world,
and
this
question
of
provenance
has
many
edges
that
are
going
to
be
very
sharp
and
are
going
to
cut
people
where
they
least
expect
it.
A
E
Well,
there's
a
lot
if
this
is
the
individuals
versus
the
versus
the
corporate
and
governmental
world.
The
corporate
and
governmental
worlds
are
going
to
immense
effort
to
to
determine
the
province
of
the
individuals
and
the
to
end
a
great
deal
of
effort
in
many
cases,
to
prevent
the
individuals
from
seeing
much
about
the
prominence
of
what
they're
dealing
with,
and
I
think
you
can
find
cases
all
of
us
would
agree
or
good
and
lots
of
us
agree
or
bad.
E
E
A
program
shouldn't
be
able
to
figure
out
what
resources
it's
drawing
on
only
if
they
meet
a
set
of
specs,
because
if
you
can
figure
out
something
else
about
them,
somebody
else
will
write
that
into
a
program
and
the
minute
something
wasn't
spec
changes.
All
the
programs
crash,
so
lots
of
good
reasons
for
guaranteeing
that
aunties
playing
in
a
game
only
know
what
they're
allowed
to
know.
C
A
C
Scale
of
things
we
keep
getting
down
to
these
two
issues
with
blockchain
that
we
try
to
solve
one
being
inherently
encrypting,
the
data
that
we
store
across
servers
or
within
a
server
and
the
second
being
the
encryption
layers
that
we
lay
on
top
of
those
networks
when
getting
access
into
and
out
of
those
networks.
Two
different
things,
so
you
know
we're
talking
about
how
we
can
use
proofs
to
better
provide
security
as
well.
E
Yes
and
I've
been
working
with
an
outfit
called
fendora,
whose
whole
center
of
its
of
its
concern
is
the
the
desire
for
the
transparency
that
characterizes
blockchain
and
yet
for
building.
In
with
that
transparency,
the
ability
to
support
such
traditional
financial
phenomena,
as
as
as
confidential
transactions.
A
So
so
so,
let's,
let's
let's
turn
around
a
bit,
so
I
think
we've
got
the
two
two
main
issues,
so
how
how
explicitly
is
blockchain
going
to
support
or
an
actual
fix?
I
don't
think
anyone
can
fix
these
ongoing
issues
right,
ongoing
opportunities
as
well
right
so
joshua.
How
do
you
what
what
do
you
think?
How
does
blockchain
just
simplify?
How
do
you
think.
C
C
You
know:
we've
worked
with
big
companies
to
provide
complete
provenance
and
complete
transparency
to
supply
chain
to
their
customers.
We've
there's
companies
out
there
like
monito,
who
are
using
blockchain-based,
dlt
and
hash
technology
to
allow
companies
to
meet
gdpr
and
other
consumer
rights
protections
within
their
companies
and
within
their
websites.
And
then
you
have
other
companies
like
alter
altr,
who
are
using
blockchain-based
cybersecurity
to
encrypt
databases
and
how
you
can
get
into
and
out
of
databases
and
how
databases
store
data,
inherently
in
one
central
store
or
partially
across
multiple
stores.
A
E
C
A
Yeah
so
son,
scott
mcgee's
with
the
network,
is
the
computer
right.
We
have
this
new
thing
out
there
right
and
you
know
it's
it's
so
in
terms
of
of
what
we're
doing
with
blockchain.
I
think
that
a
lot
already
has
been
done
and
maybe
leanne
you
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
right
in
terms
of
what
you've
done
at
everledger,
and
I
think
you
and
I
think
we
talk
about
the
unintended
consequences
right.
D
There's
not
enough.
That's
been
invested
in
terms
of
that
education
piece.
I
think
that
we
have
a
huge
separation
between
the
why
we
need
to
do
what
we're
doing
and
then
the
how
we
need
to
go
about
it.
So
I
think
that
the
big
question
for
me-
but
I
was
quite
interested
in
dr
whitfield's
comments
previously-
are
we
seeing
right
what
we
once
knew?
Was
the
world
wide
web
to
the
worldwide
ledger?
But
are
we
seeing
the
movement
from
the
dow
to
the
dap
like?
Can
I
become
a
decentralized
autonomous
person?
D
E
B
History
of
one's
sorry,
arguably,
once
history,
one's
transactions
on,
like
the
ethereum
blockchain,
for
example,
are
independent
and
sovereign
from
from
you
know
their
kind
of
identity
and
relationship
to
individual
companies
right
it's
in
countries.
Sorry,
it's
an
international
kind
of
thing,
and
now
it
is
a
whole
lot
of
transparency.
B
Thank
you,
dr
giffy.
The
public
side
of
that
key
is,
then,
you
know
kind
of
the
key
to
unlocking
so
much
or
or
the
root
of
a
chain
of
keys,
so
that
you
can
maintain
some
degree
of
pseudonymity
across
different
contexts
right,
but
that
will
exist
outside
of
the
system
of
how
a
nation
recognizes
who
its
citizens
are
right,
because
you
want
that
to
be
something
that
can't
be
taken
away
by
a
nation.
B
We
all
live
in
nations
where
that
might
not
be
a
worry,
but
if
you're
fleeing
a
country
that
is
collapsing
that
will
be
taken
away.
You
know
you're
worried
you
shouldn't
have
to
worry
that
your
educational
credentials
would
be
taken
away
from
you
and
disappeared,
because
you
became
persona
non
grata
from
the
country
that
you
were
fleeing
right.
So
this
context
is
urgent
in
refugee
and
situations
in
other
unstable
parts
of
the
world.
So
certainly
something
groups
like
id
2020
have
been
focusing
on.
B
A
C
So
I
I'll
take
a
stab
at
it
and
you
can.
You
can
feel
free
to
cut
me
off.
I
mean,
at
least
in
an
answer
to
the
question
of:
is
it
possible
to
get
to
a
decentralized
autonomous
person,
I'm
not
sure,
and
not
in
this
digital
age?
Not
unless
you
live
in
a
closed-loop
economy
or
country,
I
think
what
we're
seeing,
at
least
in
china
and
their
five-year
plan
is
a
decentralized
non-autonomous
person
by
utilizing
blockchain
to
bring
together
different
government
networks.
C
I
think
what
we're
seeing
in
places
like
india,
where
we
worked
with
the
telecom
authority
using
zero
knowledge
proofs
to
stop
spam,
is
the
concept
of
a
decentralized
autonomous
process
where
people
could
independently
elect,
but
to
get
to
that
decentralized,
autonomous
person.
It's
really
that
web
4.0
concept
it
could
get
there,
but
I
don't
think
we're
seeing
it
right
now.
That's
at
least
my
two
cents.
A
D
Well,
arguably,
you'd
say
people
have
rights,
and
this
is
what
we're
talking
about
consumer
rights
or
people's
rights.
But
diamonds
are
dumb
and
they
don't
have
rights.
So
kyo
know
your
object
and
when
I
say
diamonds
are
dumb
in
so
much
that
they're
not
inherently
connected
by
way
of
connectivity
to
the
backbone
of
the
internet.
So.
E
D
Is
very
little
chance
of
having
an
embedded
iot
device
within
the
object,
particularly
if
it's
a
pressure
stone
because
you
have
to
enable
the
purest
of
the
quality
of
the
stone
to
to
remain
persistent,
so
kyo
know
your
object
when
we
start
thinking
about
financial
services
has
looked
at
kyc
to
identify
the
actors
within
a
supply
chain
or
supply
or
supply
chain
finance.
But
it's
the
object.
That's
actually
moving
across
the
planet.
That's
involved
in
the
in
the
money
laundering
right.
It's
the
object
itself.
D
That
is
a
part
of
the
transaction,
and
it's
the
marrying
of
those
two
pieces
together
that
we've
not
necessarily
seen
what
the
power
of
that
can
do,
but
we
can
certainly
identify
being
on
the
right
side
of
history,
hopefully
enabling
far
better
far
better
transparency
and
and
trade
and
and
understanding
as
well
the
impact
that
these
objects
at
their
extractive
levels
are
having
on
the
planet.
But
arguably
how
far
do
we
go?
Do
we
keep
do
we
keep
going
even
deeper
beyond
the
object
level?
A
D
D
Before
we
became
a
major
exporting,
you
know
commodities
market
player
with
our
natural
resources,
but
the
major
brands
are
also
interested
in
understanding
the
techniques,
the
husbandry
of
the
animal.
So
we
work
in
a
space
that
we
found
ourselves
that
we
also
have
to
understand
not
just
only
people
rights
but
but
animal
rights,
and
how
do
we
enable
that
from
an
identity
perspective
and
also
the
techniques
that
have
been
used
highly
contentious?
D
The
very
large
brands
in
market
are
questioning
whether
that
is
the
right
way
and
so
there's
a
fast
rising
element
of
concern
around
not
just
consumer
rights
but
animal
rights
and
identifying
that
too,
of
course,
we're
not
going
to
have
animals
open
bank
accounts
and
provide
kya,
know
your
animal,
but
there
is
sort
of
a
marrying
of
that.
That
is
critically
important,
particularly.
E
D
A
D
Look
I've
been
working
in
mid-90s
in
rfid
technology
and
I'm
50
this
year.
So
for
me
this
has
been
a
long
long
road
to
get
to
this
point,
certainly
not
as
long
as
dr
whitfield,
but
you
know
we
have
the
layering
of
technologies
that
have
well
being
positioned,
but
the
reality
is,
it
hasn't
been
affordable
for
industry
to
create
the
enablement
of
that
because
most
upon
which
they've
been
looking
at
it
from
a
perspective
of
closed
loop
once
you're,
starting
to,
as
I
said
before,
align
the
value
and
the
value
creation
of
these
technologies.
D
That
can
be
remanufactured
as
an
input
of
material
supply
chain
into
the
jewellery
industry
is
a
very
real
proposition,
and
I
think
that
that's
the
piece
this
this
the
supply
chain,
the
industry
cross-threading,
is
really
where
the
power
of
this
is
starting
to
start
to
be
to
be
tested,
seen
and
implemented.
So
the
example
of
dell
is
actually
an
implementation.
That
was,
you
know,
completed
three
or
four
years
ago,
but
it's
getting
this
at
scale
with
true
interoperability
across
industry.
Threaded
that
one
person's
waste
stream
is
another
person's
important
value.
A
D
B
Well,
I
think
sotheby's
and
beeple
would
agree
with
you
with
that
now
right,
69
million
dollars
for
an
nft
for
an
object
that
exists
only
digitally.
I
know
that
might
be
an
outlier
that
might
be
a
a
you
know,
an
attribute
of
some
other
phenomenon
going
on
underneath
the
covers,
but
I
I
think
there
is
there
is
something
to
this
nft
space,
but
not
just
for
artwork
nfts
as
title
to
other
types
of
assets,
not
just
diamonds
but
think
about
cars
or
land
or
or
rights.
B
Mineral
rights
to
certain
things
or
or
other
types
of
agreements
between
parties
being
able
to
deal
with
those
in
non-fungible
but
still
portable
and
assignable
ways
is,
is,
I
think,
the
basis
for
so
many
of
the
blockchain
initiatives
that
are
out
there,
and
you
know
I
kind
of
I.
I
have
a
hope
actually
that
anything
we
think
of
today.
That
involves
a
registry
somewhere
having
to
whether
it's
registering
your
warranty.
B
Now,
there's
now
one
of
the
largest
used
airplane
part
marketplaces
runs
on
top
of
distributed
ledger
technology
with
honeywell
has
described
this.
We
have
a
case
study
actually
on
the
hyperledger
website
about
this,
and
it
processes
something
like
a
billion
dollars
a
day
worth
of
flow
of
goods
being
exchanged
about.
You
know
to
help
provision
airplanes
in
flight,
so.
C
A
A
So,
if
you're,
if
you
want
to
get
involved
in
prominence,
you're
an
sme
in
china,
you're
a
you're,
a
farmer,
I
think
you
get
involved
in
association
or
if
you're,
a
tech
company
or
for
just
in
terms
of
providence,
maybe
ask
leanne
that
and
then
maybe
brian
and
then
in
terms
of
security.
How
do
you
get
involved
in
that?
So
you
can
be
part
of
this
kind
of
helping
the
consumer,
because
in
the
end,
it's
up
to
the
consumer
probably
to
work
on
consumer
rights
as
well
right.
D
I
always
liken
blockchain
as
a
people's
technology,
and
so
for
the
very
reason
of
that.
It's
it's
open
source,
and
so
literally
anyone
can
get
involved.
I
mean
everledger
broke
the
back
on
on
our
ideation,
because
we
were
able
to
effectively
pick
up
open
source,
there's
large-scale
communities
now
that
are
building
incredible
protocols
and
elements,
and
you
know
api
endpoints.
D
And
to
say,
I
want
to
start
recording
the
understanding
of
what
we're
doing
and
then
build
it
with
inside
of
the
value
proposition
of
the
of
the
network.
Those
that
have
procurement
contracts
can
begin
to
wave
the
pen
over
this
being
a
critical
part
of
of
the
purchasing
cycle,
and
once
we
start
to
have
that
become
a
part
of
embedded
within
trade,
then
we
won't
be
talking
about
blockchain.
We
won't
be
talking
about
provenance,
it
will
just
be
as
it
should
always
be.
You
know.
D
Labels
with
inside
of
jackets
or
shirts
will
not
just
only
show
you
know
the
type
of
materials
used,
but
the
footprint
of
the
amount
of
water
that's
being
used,
and
consumers
are
having
a
very
large
voice
around
that.
So,
if
you're
presented
in
a
retail
outlet
with
uniqlo
and
h
m-
and
it
looks
the
same
but
there's
a
very
different
material
use,
certainly
those
questions
are
starting
to
be
asked
by
consumers.
So
I
would
say
we
are
all
consumers,
so
why
don't
we
start
there?
D
A
B
And
and
I'm
going
to
start
somewhere
different
than
just
the
consumers,
I'm
going
to
start
with,
if
you're
a
developer
interested
in
this
or
a
business
owner
or
otherwise
involved
in
business
development
in
any
any
sector.
Frankly,
first
get
educated
understand
where
these
technologies
have
been
deployed
successfully.
B
I'm
going
to
be
neutral
on
that,
but
the
other
end,
which
is
about
permissioned
networks
where,
where
that
don't
have
the
energy
consumption
issues
that
are
more
designed
for
enterprise
networks
and
there's
a
lot
of
information
out
there
about
how
to
understand
that.
The
second
thing
to
understand
is
you
know:
there's
been
a
lot
of
proofs
of
concept
that
haven't
quite
crossed
the
chasm
into
running
into
production
and
creating
value.
B
We
have
quite
a
few
user
studies
on
the
hyperledger
website
that
case
studies
that
talk
about
different
projects
that
have
crossed
over
to
becoming
deployed
and
in
production
that
are
worth
reading.
But
there's
other
reports
from
groups
like
the
blockchain
research
institute
or
mary
lassite's
group
at
the
university
of
arkansas
has
done
a
lot
of
studies
on
on
how
walmart
and
other
major
and
fedex
and
other
major
companies
have
deployed
this
stuff,
so
lots
of
good
material
out
there
and
even
as
a
developer.
B
It's
really
important
to
understand
the.
Why
and
get
the
incentives
alignment
right
so
that
if
you
take
the
next
step
and
start
scratching
into
the
technologies
there
and
learning
how
they
work,
I
that's
that's
the
best
thing.
Every
every
bit
of
these
technologies
have
kind
of
a
hello
world
equivalent
have
tutorials,
especially
the
ones
that
are
at
hyperledger.
We
have
what
I
what
I
like
to
think
are
kind
of
a
nice
set
of
tutorials
and
ways
to
immerse
yourself
gradually,
and
the
technologies
are
still
young
enough
that
they
work.
B
They
work
pretty.
Well.
If
you
find
a
bug,
let
us
know
we
try
to
be
humble
about
it,
but
we
really
hope
as
well
that
people
consider
joining
those
projects
and
becoming
a
part
of
pushing
those
technologies
forward.
So
that's
the
journey
you
know
for
for
anybody,
who's,
business
or
or
a
developer,
but
then
that
extra
little
bit
for
the
developers
that
we
think
anybody
can
follow.
A
E
E
So
if
you
work
at
the
center
of
a
field,
that's
been
investigated
for
a
while.
If
you're
smart
enough,
you
may
solve
problems
and
you'll,
be
very,
very
much
recognized
because
you'll
solve
problems
that
have
been
hanging
around
for
a
long
time
and
become
very
well
known.
On
the
other
hand,
the
easier
way
to
find
problems
that
will
have
a
big
impact
on
the
world
and
you'll
likely
be
able
to
solve
is
to
work
at
the
boundaries
of
fields.
A
Of
devices
our
next,
our
next,
the
next
one
is
going
to
be
blockchain
and
bioengineering.
I
can
see
that
wow.
I
think.
That's!
That's!
That's!
That's
a
definitely
a
very
interesting
space.
I'm
going
to
quickly
do
a
quick
round
robin
we've
got
a
few
minutes
left.
So
that's
two
questions
really
out
from
from
scores
from
one
to
ten,
ten
being
we're
managing
it
today.
How
how
how
good
are
we
at
managing
consumer
rights
and
how
what
would
be
your
score
in
10
years
time
between
110
I'm
going
to
start
with
joshua.
C
Write
a
negative
five
right
now.
I
think
we
might
get
to
a
two
or
three
in
the
next
10
years,
assuming
we
don't
take
the
whole
damn
network
down.
I
think
folks
need
to
understand
network
encryption
and
data
encryption
separately,
and
I
think
people
need
to
put
a
lot
more
understanding
into
cryptography
and
different
types
of
public
creation,
public
key
and
asymmetric
cryptography
and
how
they're
being
used.
I
think,
in
the
coming
years.
It's
not
just
going
to
be
about
the
utilization
of
blockchain,
but
how
we
see.
C
Companies
and
bad
actors
employ
ai
and
machine
learning
and
quantum
computing
over
time,
and
I
think
that's
the
real
fear
in
the
next
10
years.
We
can
create
all
these
great
security
layers
where
we
create
computing
that
can
crack
them
faster
than
we
can
actually
secure
them,
but
right
now
I
don't
think
we
have
any
idea
how
unsecured
our
data
is
on
a
day-to-day
basis,
most
people,
and
they
should
really
understand.
B
Right
now,
right
now,
I
think
we
are
actually
at
an
attitude.
I
do
think.
Blockchain
technology
is
hardening
and
and
providing
greater
resiliency
to
supply
chains
in
ways
that
aren't
obvious
at
all
to
consumers
might
be
even
hard
to
measure,
but
seeing
it
deployed
in
so
many
different
domains.
It
is
having
an
impact.
B
Fact,
vaccination
passport
kinds
of
stuff
happening
out
there
that
will
be
if
they're,
digital
and,
if
they're
done
right
and
if
groups
like
linux
foundation,
public
health
and
the
coveted
credits
initiative
and
the
good
health
pass
initiative
and
others
that
are
all
working
on
this
together
are
successful.
We'll
see
wallets
in
people's
hands
that
they
present
every
time
they
cross
the
border
every
time
they
want
to
go
to
a
protected
concert.
B
You
know
that
shows
your
vaccination
status
and
that
that
will
be
using
verifiable
credentials
that
ultimately
wind
up
to
a
public
key
infrastructure
running
on
top
of
a
distributed
ledger
again
it
might.
They
might
not
know
that
it
says
blockchain,
you
know
and
headline
closer
on
that,
but
it
will
be
making
material
difference
in
affecting
positively
their
consumer
rights,
and
so
I'm
I'm
definitely
the
optimist
on
this.
Maybe
that
brings
it
up
to
a
six
out
of
ten
who
knows.
A
D
A
E
A
I
am
afraid
we've
come
to
the
end
of
the
hour
and
just
at
that
point
I
think
we
need
another
discussion.
I'd
like
to
thank
brian,
dr
whitfield,
leanne
and
joshua
for
being
an
amazing
panel.
You
know
definitely
legends.
We
really
enjoyed
that
to
all
you,
though,
listening
there.
Thank
you
very
much
for
listening
and
and
in
the
future,
take
care.
I
think
we
have
a
lot
to
discuss
and
a
lot
to
do
so.
A
Please
do
get
involved,
we'll
do
some
stuff
down
below
on
on
youtube,
how
on
the
youtube
link
below
and
also
on
10
cent,
qq
tencent
video
on
how
to
get
involved
and
and
help.
I
think
what
is
this
very,
very
important
issue
around
consumer
rights
and
how
blockchain
can
help.
Thank
you
very
much.
Everybody
take
care,
keep
saying.