►
Description
Evernym’s Chief Architect Daniel Hardman takes the Hyperledger community through Evernym’s work on Microledgers and Edge-Chains Architecture. Attendees will gain insight into the theory, applications and evolution in Hyperledger Indy along with a practical discussion of their potential.
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
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#Hyperledger #HyperledgerGlobalForum2018 #Blockchain
A
Okay,
I
think
we'll
go
ahead
and
get
started.
There
are
likely
to
be
people
trickling
in
if
they're,
like
I
am
if
I
didn't
have
to
be
here.
Speaking
I
would
take
my
time
getting
in
the
next
session
after
lunch
feeling
a
little
bit
sluggish,
but
anyway,
they'll
come
in
and
and
we'll
already
be
in
the
presentation.
A
A
I
work
with
hyper
ledger:
indie
project,
mostly
I'm,
a
maintainer
there
and
I-
also
work
for
well,
so
I
have
a
day
job
with
Evernham
and
then
a
side
gig
where
I
work
on
the
technical
governance
port
of
the
sovereign
foundation,
which
is
closely
connected
to
the
indie
project
anyway,
today,
I'm
going
to
talk
about
some
concepts
that
have
been
marinating
in
my
mind
and
in
the
minds
of
some
people
that
I
work
with
for
quite
a
while.
Not
all
these
ideas
are
originally
mine.
I
want
to
give
credit
where
credit
is
due.
A
Lots
of
other
smart
people
have
been
talking
and
thinking
about
this
as
well
I'm,
just
a
spokesman
for
a
lot
of
other
people,
and
hopefully
the
title
intrigued.
You
a
little
bit
micro,
Ledger's
and
edge
chains,
I'm
going
to
demystify
that
and
when
you
walk
away,
I
hope,
you're
gonna.
Think
of
this
as
not
so
much
a
super
technical
session
that
you've
been
to,
but
instead
a
session
that
kind
of
has
some
intriguing
ideas
for
you
to
think
about
later,
in
whatever
you're
doing
so.
A
I
became
really
excited
about
how
blockchain
had
solved
a
bunch
of
problems
and
who
I
was
going
to
go
conquer
the
world
with
all
this
new
technology,
and
it
was
awesome,
and
that
was
a
I
lasted
in
that
phase
of
my
acquaintance,
with
blockchain
for
I,
don't
know
several
months,
but
I
start
to
encounter
practical
problems
with
some
of
the
blockchain
stuff.
I
was
doing
and
I
hope,
as
I
described
the
rest
of
this
arc.
You'll
smile
a
little
bit
to
yourselves
and
say
yeah,
I've
kind
of
been
through
the
same
thing.
A
It
wasn't
enough,
it
just
plain
shouldn't
be
there
at
all,
and
so
hopefully
you
guys
are
recognizing
these
kinds
of
patterns
in
your
own
thinking
here
and
then
I
got
into
the
whole
all
regulatory
compliance
of
gdpr
thing
and
gee.
This
is
getting
harder
and
harder,
and
then
I
and
several
of
my
companions
discovered
this
notion
of
micro
Ledger's
and
we
feel
like
it
was
kind
of
an
aha
moment
for
us.
So
I'll
explain
what
micro
Ledger's
are
and
I
think
you'll
see
how
that's
relevant
to
this
arc
when
I'm
done.
A
But
let
me
just
point
out
that
that
same
kind
of
arc
that
I
just
described
in
my
own
thinking
we're
seeing
unfold
in
lots
of
different
ways
in
the
whole
block
chain
space.
All
of
the
things
on
this
list
here
are
examples
of
projects
where
somebody
has
fought
hard
about
the
original
blockchain
paradigm
and
tweaked,
something
in
an
interesting
way
because
of
that
same
arc-
and
you
know
the
tweaks
are
different.
A
Plasma
is
about
taking
smart
contracts
off
the
blockchain
triple
signed.
Receipts
is
about
preserving
confidence
in
data,
but
not
having
to
keep
a
full
history.
Even
though
you
have
a
strong
proof
that
you're
at
the
right
state
anyway,
they
all
different
things
up
there
and
if
you
don't
know
about
all
those
I
didn't
know
about
all
of
them,
either
until
I
went
and
researched.
This
talk
and
I
was
looking
for
patterns.
I
knew
about
some
of
them
and
I
found
some
others
there.
A
Okay,
so
I
want
to
just
point
out
something:
I
went
and
looked
just
for
fun:
I
went
and
looked
up.
Architecture
diagrams
with
Google
I
was
looking
for
old,
client-server
architecture
diagrams
okay,
and
these
are
just
three
that
I
picked
at
random
out
of
the
Google
image
search
results
list.
You
see
that
client-server
is
kind
of
this
old
paradigm,
where
we
have
this
notion
of
a
centralized
thing
right
and
client-server
equals
bad
right.
We've
been
down
that
road.
We
don't
like
that
anymore,
but
here's
what's
interesting.
A
I
also
went
and
searched
for
some
architecture
diagrams
about
blockchain
and
some
blockchain
supposed
to
be
highly
decentralized,
and
lo
and
behold,
there
are
lots
and
lots
of
evidence
in
these
diagrams
that
blockchain
is
actually
it
just
almost
the
exact
same
thing
now,
there's
some
things
about
blockchain
that
are
different,
I'm,
not
arguing
that
they're
identical.
But
the
point
is
there:
is
this
phenomenon
sometimes
that
blockchain
has
been
used
in
a
way?
That's
far
more
centralized
than
we
like
to
admit.
A
We
don't
necessarily
need
the
blockchain
for
everything
that
we
think
we
need
it
for
the
taluk
back
in
April
I'll.
Let
you
read
that
quote
there
well,
actually
I'm
going
to
read
it,
because
it's
such
a
good
one
block
chains
are
far
less
efficient
computer
and
database
than
technologies
that
have
existed
for
over
40
years.
Efficiency
is
not
what
block
chains
are
built
for.
A
If
you
actually
go
and
look
up,
that
quote,
he
does
a
comparison
of
how
much
it
costs
to
do
certain
kinds
of
computations
on
aetherium
versus
AWS,
and
it's
about
a
million
to
one
difference
in
efficiency
and
then
founder
of
liquidity
network
in
June.
This
is
a
really
good
quote.
Bottom
line.
Is
this
notion?
You
know
what
why
would
you
need
a
mediator
if
you're
actually
agreeing
with
each
other?
Now
there's
an
answer
to
that
question,
but
there's
also
some
that
that
question
exposes
some
interesting
things
to
think
about.
A
So
I
think
smart
people
in
the
industry
are
starting
to
question
some
basic
assumptions
and
here's
here's
my
picture
of
an
architecture,
that's
centralized
in
blockchain
oriented.
You
got
the
blockchain
in
the
middle
here
and
you
got
the
arrows
coming
to
it
right.
This
is
how
I
was
thinking
about
my
own
particular
problem,
which
was
the
identity
management
relationship
management
problem.
That's
at
the
core
of
identity.
When
I
first
came
into
this
world,
and
if
you
see
we've
got
two
parties
that
each
have
a
relationship
and
want
to
trust
each
other.
A
We
have
Alice,
we
have
Bob
and
Alice
needs
to
know
some
things
about
her
view
of
this
relationship,
and
she
also
needs
to
know
some
things
about
Bob's
view
of
the
relationship.
Okay
and
these
two
views
of
the
world.
What's
symmetrical
and
complimentary,
but
they're
using
the
blockchain
in
the
middle
as
the
trusted
intermediary
and,
like
I,
said
this
view
of
the
world
sort
of
works,
but
it
became
it
chafed
on
me
and
it
became
increasingly
uncomfortable
as
I
learned
some
of
the
drawbacks
and
challenges
to
it.
A
A
So
when
you
have
this
kind
of
a
relationship,
what
you
have
is
two
parties
that
are
kind
of
at
the
edge
of
the
old
diagram.
The
instead
of
the
thing
that's
in
the
middle,
you
have
the
things
that
are
at
the
edges.
Okay
and
these
things
at
the
edge
are
talking
to
each
other,
and
this
is
how
I
get
the
concept
of
an
edge
chain.
That's
where
that
word
in
the
title
of
the
presentation
comes
from.
Is
the
notion
that
you
can
have
some
of
the
same
characteristics
of
a
blockchain.
A
You
can
have
high
trust
and
tamper
resistance
and
diffuse
patterns
of
communication
and
so
forth,
but
you
don't
have
the
blockchain
sitting
in
the
middle
of
it.
It's
it's
all
happening
out
at
the
edges.
Okay,
so
this
evolves
even
further.
If
you
have
this
person
Alice
having
relationships
with
multiple
people,
she
continues
to
have
these
all
as
kind
of
lateral
side
relationships.
She
doesn't
have
them
through
the
blockchain.
A
Now
you
might
be
saying
well
wait
a
minute
if
you
take
the
blockchain
and
all
those
big
arrows
out
what
is
it
even
useful
for?
Well,
in
my
case,
it's
useful
for
certain
problems
that
require
external
trust.
So,
for
example,
there
has
to
be
a
place
where
I
can
announce
that
a
credential
upon
which
identity
is
based
has
been
revoked
and
the
world
needs
to
test
for
that
condition
when
they're
seeing
credentials
presented.
I
know
that
there's
people
out
here
who
aren't
in
the
identity
space
I
think
there's
analogs
to
this
in
in
non
identity.
A
World
too,
there's
certain
things
that
you
need
to
consult
the
blockchain
for,
but
the
main
things
that
aren't
on
this
list
are
things
like
talking
to
each
other.
Storing
things
doing
computation,
interacting
none
of
that
stuff
has
to
go
through
smart
contracts
or
any
of
that.
It
just
has
to
have
a
few
very
small
things
that
make
this
possible.
So,
besides
revoking
credentials
in
the
identity
space,
you
have
to
be
able
to
revoke
a
device.
A
A
A
This
last
one
is
where
I
get
the
name
micro
ledger
for
this
talk,
and
that
is
basically
the
way
that
these
two
parties
interact
with
each
other
has
to
have
some
characteristics
of
prove
ability
and
tamper
evidence,
even
though
it's
not
on
the
main
blockchain,
and
you
can
do
that
by
doing
some
very
simple.
Well,
it's
not
very
simple.
It's
simple
compared
to
other
stuff,
crypto
and
so
forth,
on
your
local
hard
drive,
and
you
know
when
you
interact
with
the
other,
passing
them
Merkel
proof
of
state
having
them
check
it
against
what
they
have.
A
You
end
up,
knowing
with
confidence
that
both
of
you
have
the
same
thing
and
and
you
haven't
drifted
or
misinterpreted
one
another.
So
you
end
up
basically
having
a
tiny
little
ledger
on
your
machine
for
the
relationship.
Alice
would
have
one
for
the
relationship
she
has
with
Bob
I'm
talking
tiny
I'm,
talking
5k
10k
little
tiny
files,
they're,
not
massive,
they
don't
last
necessarily
forever.
They
don't
store
any
significant
amounts
of
information,
but
they
just
have
an
orderly
sequence
of
hashes
that
show
how
state
has
evolved.
That's
the
micro
ledger
concept.
A
So
after
we
started
playing
with
this
idea,
I
started
to
see
things
a
little
bit
different.
This
is
my
journey
again,
but
I
thought,
instead
of
it
being
kind
of
a
time
sequence.
I
saw
it
as
a
continuum
of
centralization
and
I
really
think.
That's
where
my
mental
journey
took
me
is
I
started
out.
Thinking.
Blockchain
was
cool
and
I'm
going
to
be
decentralized,
but
I
wasn't
really
very
decentralized
in
my
thinking
and
took
me
a
long
time
to
get
there.
A
You
know
I
started
kind
of
over
with
put
it
all
in
the
blockchain
which
isn't
so
far
away
from
traditional
client-server.
Ok,
then
you
start
seeing
people
talking
about
sub
chains
and
side
chains
and
things
like
that.
That's
an
example
of
moving
farther
to
the
right
on
the
continuum,
and
then
you
hear
people
talking
about
well
just
anchor
it
on
the
blockchain,
now
we're
starting
to
get
pretty
far
over
to
the
towards
the
right.
A
If
you
go
all
the
way
over
to
the
right,
you
have
a
pure
edge
chain
where
you
really
don't
need
the
blockchain
at
all.
Now,
I,
don't
think
I'm
gonna
write
any
software
that
looks
completely
at
that
end
of
the
continuum.
I
think
the
blockchain
introduces
some
characteristics
of
trust
that
I
really
need,
but
I
think
I
can
get
pretty
far
over
here.
Get
all
the
benefits
from
blockchain
that
I
really
care
about,
but
not
have
hardly
any
of
the
drawbacks
or
complications,
and
the
only
price
is
complexity.
A
Darn,
it
okay,
so
I
put
up
here
on
this
picture.
Also
I
have
gaps
right
here
and
edge
chain
protocols
when
I
first
started.
Exploring
this
notion
of
the
edge
chain,
I
was
calling
the
thing
that
we
were
building
adapt,
because
it's
a
decentralized
app,
of
course,
but
I
realized
that
what
the
industry
is
calling
adapt
is
actually
pretty
far
over
to
this
side,
because
it's
typically
running
everything
through
a
smart
contract
that
does
centralize
computation
and
you
can.
There
are
adapts
that
aren't
that
way.
So
the
DAP
thing
moves
over
towards
the
right.
A
There
are
some
gaps
that
get
maybe
almost
this
far,
but
you
you
can
take
it
all
the
way
over
here
and
I.
Think
if
you
go
way
over
to
the
right
side,
it's
not
really
fair
to
call
that
adapt,
because
it's
pretty
different
from
what
the
industry
thinks
adapt
is
and
I'm
gonna.
Give
you
some
examples
here
in
just
a
minute,
so
just
for
kicks
I'm
gonna
introduce
a
new
word
to
you,
because
this
is
why
I'm
excited
about
the
right
end
of
that
continuum.
A
A
So,
if
you're
familiar
with
the
word
teleology
or
T
Liana
me,
this
has
the
notion
that
you
have
order
from
chaos.
Okay,
but
it's
not
order.
That's
decreed
by
some
central
party.
It's
order
that
arises
spontaneously.
T
Liana
me
is
used
in
discussions
about
evolution
and
biology
and
how
a
very
complex
ecosystem
can
manifest
really
sophisticated
patterns
of
behavior.
A
Even
though
there's
not
anybody
out
there
telling
the
Zebras,
which
direction
to
run
when
the
Lions
chase
them,
and
so
you
may
have
also
heard
the
word
chaotic
before,
and
you
may
have
run
into
the
notion
of
Adam
Smith's
invisible
hand
in
the
economy.
It's
the
notion
that
you
give
a
bunch
of
independent
actors,
the
right
incentives
and
lo
and
behold,
the
free
market
causes
an
interesting
dynamic
to
emerge.
A
So
this
is
just
a
little
compare
and
contrast,
I
think
I'm
gonna
skip
over
this.
Suffice
it
to
say
that
daps
and
edge
chains
have
a
lot
in
common,
but
I
think
there's
some
interesting
differences
and
I'll.
Maybe
during
Q&A
we
can
come
back
to
this
slide.
You
have
questions
about
it,
but
let
me
now
actually
give
you
some
examples
of
what
I'm
talking
about
when
you
define
an
edge
chain
protocol.
You
have
to
answer
these
four
questions.
What
are
the
roles
in
my
protocol?
What
types
of
messages
do
we
exchange?
A
What
stage
or
sequencing
rules
apply
and
how
our
trust
and
incentives
managed?
So
here's
a
really
familiar
example:
okay,
no
tech
involved.
How
do
you
buy
a
house?
Okay?
What
are
the
roles
in
buying
a
house?
Well,
you
have
a
buyer
and
a
seller
and
the
realtor
for
the
buyer
and
the
realtor
for
the
seller.
You
have
a
home
inspector,
you
have
a
title
company.
These
are
roles
and
by
the
way,
buying
a
house
is
a
protocol
right.
A
You
can't
just
go
order,
a
title
insurance
on
some
arbitrary
home,
because
that
would
be
out
of
order
for
the
it's,
not
the
sequence,
that
you
have
to
start
by
doing
step
one,
and
then
you
go
to
step
two
and
then
you
go
to
step
three
right
and
the
parties
in
this
interaction
have
responsibilities.
They
can
do
certain
things
and
not
other
things,
okay,
so
the
kinds
of
messages
that
get
exchanged
in
this
protocol.
Well,
we
have
an
offer
to
buy
a
counteroffer,
an
acceptance
or
rejection
a
home
report,
a
title
search.
These
are
messages.
A
Okay,
what
are
the
state
rules
that
apply?
Well?
This
is
an
example.
State
machine,
I
drew
you
start
by
negotiating
and
you
can
go
round
and
round
in
circles
in
negotiating,
eventually,
you
exit
the
negotiating
phase
you're
in
the
preparing
phase,
where
you
order
a
title,
search
and
a
home
report,
and
all
these
things
and
anyway
you
end
up
consummating
the
deal
or
not
consummating
it,
but
that
is
an
edge
protocol.
Why
is
it
an
edge
protocol?
A
There's
no
blockchain
involved
right,
it's
people
out
at
the
edge,
but
there's
a
hundred
thousand
things
like
this
ordering
a
hamburger
is
a
protocol
right.
You
can't
just
walk
up
to
somebody
and
say
here's
seven,
twenty
five!
You
have
to
walk
up
to
him
and
say:
I
want
number
three
on
the
menu.
Would
then
give
him
725
after
they
ask
you
whether
you
want
it
to
be.
Is
that
to
go
or
not
to
go
right?
There's
this
whole
protocol
involved
in
that
that
we
all
know
so.
A
The
reason
I'm
harping
on
this
is
because
all
kinds
of
business
problems
are
solved
by
protocols
all
the
time
and
in
fact,
they're
mostly
edge
protocols
and
that's
a
cool
thing
if
you
can
just
hook
them
up
to
blockchain
for
just
the
parts
that
you
need
them
for
and
not
all
of
it,
the
the
weight
of
what
you're
building
goes
way
down.
So
here's
a
simple
edge
protocol,
that's
techy!
This
one
is
one
that's
relevant
to
the
identity
space.
A
This
is
the
trust
ping
protocol
and
in
Indy
there
is
a
hype
which
is
like
an
RFC
about
how
you
ping
another
person.
You
have
their
D
ID
for
them,
that's
their
identity,
their
identifier
excuse
me,
and,
given
that
identifier,
you
should
be
able
to
reach
out
and
talk
to
that
person.
So
how
do
you
do
it
and,
according
to
the
whole,
indie
technology
should
be
able
to
do
it?
A
No
matter
what
transport
you're
used
to
send
messages,
whether
it's
HTTP
or
mail
or
Bluetooth
or
whatever,
and
you
should
know
some
things
when
you
engage
in
this
trust,
pink
about
whether
the
person
on
the
other
side
is
trustworthy
and
how
much
trust
might
have
been
eroded
by
the
kind
of
mechanisms
you
used
in
between
you
and
stuff,
like
that.
So
there's
a
hype
about
that.
You
can
see
the
roles,
the
ping
ER
and
the
ping
e
and
the
message
types.
Let
me
give
you
a
quick
demo
of
this
protocol.
A
A
Yeah,
this
is
a
trust
ping
protocol,
documentation
and
the
trust
ping
documentation
says
that
if
I
want
to
ping
somebody,
this
is
the
kind
of
JSON
message.
I
need
to
send
it
so
I'm
gonna
send
it
one.
Let's
go
over
here
to
my
email
and
I'll,
bring
up
my
little
trust
ping,
nothing
up
my
sleeve,
here's,
the
the
JSON
that
I'm
sending,
which
is
just
a
direct
copy
and
paste
out
of
this
pipe
here.
So
that's
the
that's
the
stuff
that
I
sent
and.
A
A
It
sent
me
a
name
style
message,
except
it's
not
fully
encrypted
right
now,
I
turned
off
the
encryption.
This
is
the
JSON
that
I
got
back.
It
says
hi
from
indie
agent,
so
I've
just
engaged
in
a
protocol
here
now.
What
does
blockchain
add
to
this
I
could
do
this
entirely
without
blockchain,
but
there's
some
things
I
wouldn't
have
I,
wouldn't
have
confidence
in
the
other
sender.
A
Somebody
could
sit
in
between
me
in
this
protocol
and
mess
with
my
mind
right,
be
a
man-in-the-middle,
so
most
of
the
protocol
is
not
modified,
but
by
adding
a
little
bit
of
blockchain
pixie
dust,
I'll
call
it
I
can
increase
the
trust
behind
this
protocol
and
and
that's
the
kind
of
thing
that
I'm
seeing
over
and
over
again
as
I
get
my
head
wrapped
around
this
paradigm.
Is
you
start
with
a
paradigm?
That's
really
not
very
blockchain
heavy,
and
then
you
say:
okay,
what
are
the
things?
A
A
Tic
Tac
Toe.
We
could
also
play
tic-tac-toe
I'm
gonna,
wait
and
see
if
I
have
enough
time.
I'll
do
a
demo
of
tic-tac-toe
if
you
feel
like
it
later,
but
anyway,
I
have
a
demo
of
that.
If
you
want
to
this,
one
was
not
there's
no
blockchain
goodness
on
this.
This
is
all
the
way
to
the
complete
right
side
is
being
a
pure
hedge
protocol,
because
you
don't
need
a
blockchain
to
play.
Tic-Tac-Toe.
A
Okay.
This
is
a
more
serious
one.
What
if
you
want
to
manage
a
relationship
so
Alice
and
Bob
live
across
the
world?
They
use
complicated,
complicated
technologies.
Each
of
them
has
different
technologies.
One
of
them
has
a
laptop
and
a
cell
phone,
and
the
other
one
has
a
desktop
computer
at
work
and
two
cell
phones
and
something
in
the
cloud,
and
they
want
to
talk
to
each
other
and
there's
different
pieces
of
software
running
on
all
these
different
things
at
different
version
levels
and
all
this
kind
of
stuff.
A
How
does
Alice
tell
Bob
hey
you
shouldn't
accept
any
messages
anymore
from
my
old
cell
phone
that
I
just
sent
to
the
recycling
I
think
they
told
me
they
were
gonna,
wipe
the
hard
drive
on
it,
but
I,
just
don't
trust.
I'm
gonna
tell
Bob
not
to
do
that.
You
know
how
do
you,
how
does
Alice
say:
hey
I,
upgraded
my
own
world
here
and
I've
got
a
new
device,
and
now,
if
I
send
messages
from
that
device,
you
should
trust
them.
A
All
of
these
are
concerns
of
managing
a
relationship
and
you
need
a
protocol
to
manage
a
relationship
and
guess
what
it's
mostly
an
edge
protocol.
So
this
is
a
more
serious
one.
That
matters
has
pretty
high
stakes
and
I've
been
working
on
a
method
to
describe
how
di
DS
can
be
created
and
the
did
Docs
associated
with
those
di
DS
can
be
shared
and
there's
you
can
see
the
the
roles
here.
Are
the
participants
in
the
relationship
and
there's
some
message,
types
that
are
described
here,
there's
actually
a
did
method.
A
A
So
this
one
is
the
thing
that
has
caused
I,
think
the
most
ruminating
on
the
concept
of
a
micro
ledger,
because
the
micro
ledger
as
a
persistence
mechanism,
could
provide
high
trust
to
back
the
did
method
that
I'm
mentioning
here.
Let
me
go
on
to
another
one:
that's
maybe
a
little
bit
more
interesting,
so
this
is
just
an
imaginary
one,
but
I
think
I'd
love.
If
somebody
in
the
audience
wants
to
build
this
I'd
be
super
excited
and
I
would
buy
your
app
a
megaphone
protocol.
A
What
I'd
like
is
something
where,
if
I'm
sitting
on
the
beach
in
Indonesia
and
a
tsunami
happens,
I
can
grab
my
phone
and
push
a
button
and
say
run
a
tsunamis
coming
and
my
phone
contacts,
all
the
phones
all
around
the
resort,
where
I'm
staying,
which
in
turn
contact
all
the
phone's
a
mile
inland
and
everybody
starts
running.
Not
just
the
people
who
can
see
the
wave
would
that
be
cool
I
want
basically
a
virtual
megaphone,
but
here's
a
why
do
I
need
blockchain.
There's
a
really
good
answer
to
this.
A
I
can't
build
this
right
now,
because,
if
everybody
had
a
real
megaphone
in
real
life,
you'd
have
problems
with
people
using
it
irresponsibly.
Wouldn't
you
so
there's
a
trust
problem.
I
can
use
blockchain
to
require
people
to
put
stake
or
put
their
identity
in
escrow
against
their
responsible
behavior,
so
that
a
person
can
say
look
when
it's
a
life-or-death
situation.
I
need
an
EpiPen
right
now.
A
I'm
willing
to
you
know,
have
a
hundred
dollars
on
the
line
or
I'm
willing
to
have
my
identity
disclosed
if
I
am
shown
to
use
that
irresponsibly
and
that
protocol
can
hook
back
to
the
blockchain
as
a
basis
for
that
trust.
But
most
of
everything
that's
happening
is
all
out
on
the
edge
okay
and
you
can
see
some
of
the
other
ones.
You
know
my
child
is
lost
at
Disneyland
or
I'm
desperate
to
get
on
this
plane.
A
As
somebody
in
this
line
willing
to
send
me
to
sell
me
their
plane
ticket
4000
euros,
any
of
these
kinds
of
things
could
be
done
with
this
kind
of
a
protocol,
and
you
would
just
need
peer-to-peer
communication
in
your
app
or
you
could
have
the
app
go
back
to
the
cloud
and
talk
to
other
apps
through
the
cloud.
If
you
needed
to
that
would
be
more
centralized.
But
anyway,
there's
some
roles
in
this
a
speaker,
a
listener
and
a
relay.
A
So
here's
my
suggestion
to
you:
I
hope
that
I
haven't
gone
too
too
deep.
I've
tried
to
stay
really
high-level
and
I
hope
that
I've
been
general
enough
that,
even
if
you're,
not
in
the
Indy
space,
the
identity,
space,
you're
thinking
a
little
bit
to
yourself
yeah,
maybe
there's
some
ways
that
I'm
taking
for
granted
that
we
need
to
use
the
blockchain
for
something
and
maybe
I
shouldn't.
Maybe
I
should
think
from
the
other
direction.
A
Instead
start
thinking
about
the
problem
as
an
edge
protocol
problem
and
then
say
how
do
I
sprinkle
the
the
magic
pixie
dust,
a
blockchain
just
enough
to
get
the
properties
of
trust
or
the
constraints
that
I
need,
and
what
I've
found
is
that
this
is
a
very
liberating
experience.
Two
and
a
half
years
in
a
lot
of
the
problems
that
I
initially
thought
were
really
yucky.
I'm
now
thinking!
Well,
if
I
flip
it
on
its
head,
I
can
get
what
I
need
to
and
I
don't
have
the
performance
problem
or
I.
A
Don't
have
the
scaling
problem
or
I,
don't
have
the
centralization
and
trust
problem
or
the
regulatory
problem.
So
I
want
to
encourage
you
to
do
that.
Think
in
terms
of
the
edge
with
a
blockchain
as
a
useful
foundation
that
you
can
refer
to,
but
not
necessarily
as
the
place
where
it
all
happens.
You
don't
have
to
compute
everything
in
a
smart
contract
and
you
don't
have
to
and
if
you
say
well,
I,
don't
know
how
to
do
that.
A
There
are
some
problems
that
you
must
use
blockchain
for,
but
I'm
just
saying
use
it
wisely
and
not
just
peanut
butter
spread
it
on
everything
and
then
I
would
love
to
get
some
people
here
to
work
with
me
on
this
peer
did
method,
I
think
it's
a
very
high
value
for
the
identity
space.
That's
one
specific
to
my
area
of
expertise.
So
with
that
I'll
go
back
and
demo,
something
if
you
want
or
we
can
go
into
QA
I
think
we
got
about
ten
minutes
left,
which
is
good.
B
A
So
this
is,
if
I
go
back
to,
let's
see
the
notion
of
anchoring
something
on
a
blockchain.
A
number
of
people
in
industry
are
exploring
different
ways
to
do
that,
and
one
of
the
things
you
could
anchor
on
a
blockchain
is
a
micro
ledger.
So
if
you
needed
to
prove,
for
example,
to
a
third
party,
let's
say
Alice
and
Bob
are
interacting
and
it's
it's
a
private
personal
relationship.
A
But
let's
say
Bob
doesn't
fully
trust
Alice
and
maybe
he's
afraid
that
alice
is
gonna
steal
all
of
his
cool
music
for
his
next
album,
even
because
he's
been
sharing
it
with
her,
so
he
goes
and
he
anchors
some
things
on
the
blockchain
to
provide
evidence
so
that
if
anybody
ever
you
know,
if
there's
ever
an
argument,
there's
a
third
party.
That's
a
witness
that
kind
of
a
thing
and
there's
other
kinds
of
use.
Cases
like
that
too.
C
Hi
so
obviously
it's
a
communication
protocol,
so
I'm
wondering
if
there
was
any
thoughts
about
communication
recording
or
if
it
could
be
useful
in
any
way.
I
know
there
have
been
papers
for
TLS
communication
recording,
but
obviously
it's
not
easy
to
do
at
this
point
with
TLS
and
HTTPS.
So
is
there
any
ideas
about
communication
recording
between
the
agents
or
da
DS
and
how
it
could
be
possibly
useful?
So.
A
A
Where
I'm
going
with
this
is
that
same
kind
of
technique
could
be
used
in
agent
to
agent
communication.
However,
you
would
have
to
get
the
consent
of
both
ends
of
the
conversation.
You
don't
have.
The
ability,
like
you,
do
in
an
enterprise
to
simply
say
well,
every
browser
in
our
enterprise
is
going
to
accept
this
certificate
authority,
therefore
nobody's
going
to
get
any
warnings
when
they
click
and
and
stuff
like
that.
A
So
self,
sovereign
identity
technologies
provide
a
protection
against
that
kind
of
sniffing
happening
invisibly,
but
it
could
be
done
and
the
old,
the
other
thing
I
was
going
to
say,
is:
there's
also
a
hype,
a
proposal
about
message
tracing
this
is
cooperative
voluntary
message,
tracing
where
people
are
trying
to
troubleshoot
a
complex
interaction
and
they
say
hey.
Please
tell
me
when
you
get
this
message
and
forward
it
on
so
that
I
can
see.
What's
happening,
parties
don't
have
to
follow
it,
and
but
it's
somewhat
related
to
recording
so
I
I
guess.
A
D
Danny
I
actually
have
a
follow-up
question
and
what
what
happened
here
so
I'm
sure
you're
familiar
with
signal
in
signal
low,
using
a
double
ratchet
it's
right
in
Triple,
D
filmin,
and
they
create
that
end-to-end
encryption.
So
how
does
this
really
different
when
it
comes
to
peer-to-peer
and
then
just
creating
that
encryption?
Because
you
just
mentioned
that
if
you're
going
to
man
in
the
middle
attack
I'm
quite
familiar
with
what
Bluecoat
does
I
work
at
Symantec
as
well?
So
you
have
access
to
the
private
key.
D
You
are
able
to
record
a
session
and
then
you're
able
to
replay
it
so
basically
acting
as
a
proxy.
So
how
does
this
does
not
apply
in
this
scenario?
Because
if
I'm
able
to
actually
sit
in
between,
let's
say,
I
hold
the
network
and
then
I
compromise
one
of
the
parties,
then
this
is
basically
just
a
broken
channel.
Well,.
A
One
of
the
key
characteristics
that
it
has
is
that,
when
you
created
did
you
must
create
it
by
deriving
it
from
the
public
key
of
a
key
pair
that
exists
and
the
reason
that
that
requirement
exists
is
because
you
don't
want
if
you
had
it,
if
you
did
well,
let
me
take
you
down
a
different
path.
If,
if
you
started
a
D
ID
as
just
like,
let's
say
some
UUID
and
then
later
you
associated
it
with
keys,
what
could
happen?
A
Is
you
could
start
it
and
a
person,
who's,
proactive
and
malicious
could
notice
what
your
D
ID
is,
but
you
haven't
asserted,
keys
and
jump
in
and
create
the
kind
of
man
in
a
middle
situation
that
we're
really
worried
about
here,
but
because
DIDS
require
you
to
derive
the
thing
from
the
key.
The
the
did
value
from
the
key
there
is
no
point
in
time
where
the
creator
of
the
did
is
vulnerable
to
the
man
in
the
middle
attack.
E
I
had
yet
another
follow-up
on
this
thread,
so
the
ietf
has
a
existing
internet
standard
called
the
host
identity
protocol
and
it
does
exactly
the
same
thing.
The
intention
there
is
because
right
now
in
networks,
there's
the
IP
address
is
the
identity,
but
this
is
not
verifiable,
so
they
made
this
protocol
with
the
intention
that
it
existed
to
be
compatible
with
the
Internet's
tcp/ip
stack.
So
there
is
no
tie
to
and
etherion
network
or
a
hyper
ledger
implementation.
It's
just
part
of
the
general
Internet.
E
A
A
A
Like
with
certificates,
my
understanding
of
the
host
identity
technology
is
that
it
focuses
on
servers
now,
of
course,
it
could
be
used
for
clients
and
stuff
too,
but
TLS
in
general,
even
though
it
has
the
option
of
identifying
both
parties
is
almost
a
hundred
percent
used
to
identify
only
the
server
side
of
an
interaction.
So
when
you
want
to
identify
the
client
side,
what
do
you
do?
You
have
this
great
channel,
but
you
don't
use
certificates.
A
A
Where
it's
it's
going
to
be
applied,
whether
the
protocol
is
written
that
way
or
not,
it's
going
to
be
applied
just
to
identify
things
that
have
a
permanent
presence.
Does
it
does
it
work
for
mobile
phones
that
are
changing,
IP
addresses
constantly
and
that
are
refreshing,
their
software
and
all
that
other
stuff
I,
don't
know
enough
to
know.
Maybe
we
can,
can
you
share
a
link
with
me
or
something
and
I'll
go
learn
some
more
about
it?.
A
F
As
I
understood
you,
you
suggest
we
make
small
protocols
and
different
apps,
but
what,
when
I
want
to
glue
them
together
because
they
together
build
higher-level
protocols?
Would
I
then
try
to
make
the
glue
in
the
blockchain
so
things
that
those
protocols
need
store
it
there
or
would
I
define?
Let's
say
super
H
J
chain
protocol.
A
Well,
yeah
protocols
are
one
of
those
things
that
can
be
understood
at
there's,
there's
lower
level
ones
and
higher
level
ones,
just
like
there's
the
OSI
stack
and
so
forth
in
networking,
and
you
can
combine
logical
entities
into
bigger
constructs
to
make
higher-level
protocols,
something
that
you
said
kind
of
gets
at
this
slide
that
I
skipped
over
one
of
the
things.
That's
different
between
DAPs
and
edge
chain
protocols
is
that
edge
chain
protocols
there
there's
no
set
of
apps
that
you
have
to
have.
A
You
just
need
to
have
software
that
is
capable
of
playing
all
of
the
roles
in
your
protocol
and
it
could
be
written
by
ten
different
people
and
there
could
be
ten
different
providers
of
one
of
the
roles.
If
you
wanted
right
so
think
about
like
buying
a
house,
we
don't
have
only
one
place
that
you
go
to
get
all
the
the
actors
in
the
buy
a
house
protocol,
and
yet
DAPs
are
typically
written
where
you
write
a
DAP
that
implements
the
whole
thing,
and
so
that's
a
little
bit
of
a
paradigm
shift.
A
G
Hi
thanks
this
was
really
interesting.
I
was
going
to
offer
a
bit
of
nitpicking
for
the
megaphone
protocol.
I
think
if
you
don't
take
in
consideration
economic
pressure,
I
think
the
protocol
probably
fall
apart,
because
some
people
will
be
in
such
situations
that
they'll
be
willing
to
trade,
what
they
consider
their
important
identity
to
spam.
G
People
nearby
and
there'll
be
markets
that
will
probably
show
up
saying
hey
if
you
can,
if
you
do
this,
for
us,
we'll
give
you
some
money
and
people
might
burn
through
their
identity
because
they
don't
see
the
value
of
it
or
maybe
they
will
try
and
stack
up
multiple
identities
as
much
as
they
can.
Obviously,
we
we
would
expect
this
the
product
or
the
system,
the
overall
underlying
self
sovereign
identity
system
not
to
allow
that.
A
That's
good
comment:
the
the
concept
document
includes
the
notion
that
megaphones
have
a
volume
and
you
can
select
the
volume,
if
you
say,
look:
I'm,
tired
and
hungry
and
I'm
a
mom
in
an
airport
and
I.
Have
a
baby
and
I
need
to
change
the
baby's
diaper
and
I
forgot
a
diaper,
that's
not
a
life-threatening
crisis,
so
you
don't
need
life-threatening
volume
and
so
there's
probably
different
staking
for
different
levels
of
volume,
but
I
think
there's
still
you're
right.
A
A
Okay,
well,
I
think
we
should
declare
the
the
session
over
and
I'll
be
up
here.
If
anybody
wants
to
ask
more
questions,
a
couple
of
you
asked
me
questions
that
I
want
to
get
some
more
information
about.
If
you
just
come
and
talk
to
me,
that'd
be
great,
and
thanks
for
your
attention,
I
appreciate
it.