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From YouTube: Digital Trust and Clean Growth: Learnings from... John Jordan, Shuli Goodman & Dr. Martin Wainstein,
Description
Digital Trust and Clean Growth: Learnings from a Cross LF Project and Cross Sector Initiative - John Jordan, Province of British Columbia; Shuli Goodman, LF Energy & Dr. Martin Wainstein, Yale OpenLab
The Province of British Columbia, a significant provider of Canadian energy and natural resources, is rising to meet the global challenge of climate change. The Province’s CleanBC strategy is being delivered in collaboration with Indigenous communities and businesses to seize new clean economy opportunities and help communities adapt to the impacts of climate change. This kind of collaboration is needed to address the global scale of climate change.
The LF Energy Project is taking up the challenge to shift from a grid type architecture to a system of systems by building the interfaces and touch points between these various systems. The old system was built with a point to point framework. Now we need a many to many architecture and communication framework. That’s the whole of the new energy paradigm – profoundly distributed energy renewable resources that are orchestrated to provide constant and reliable electricity.
In this talk we will discuss the establishment and early execution of a multi-party, cross Linux Foundation collaboration including the Province of British Columbia, large multinational energy producers, smaller software companies and other key stakeholders. We will examine how Hyperledger Indy and Aries technology is directly applied to the energy sector to bring digital trust to the provenance and Greenhouse Gas emissions profile of energy sources such as Liquified Natural Gas. The goal is to meaningfully contribute to the decarbonization of the economy through globally open, cryptographically verifiable representations of the origin and characteristics of energy.
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
Training & Certification: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/training
Tutorials: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/tutorials
Webinars: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/webinars
Events: https://www.hyperledger.org/events
Vendor Directory: https://www.hyperledger.org/use/vendor-directory
Subscribe to the Hyperledger Newsletter: https://www.hyperledger.org/newsletter
Follow-us on Twitter @Hyperledger
Learn about Hyperledger Membership: https://www.hyperledger.org/about/join
#Hyperledger #HyperledgerGlobalForum2020 #Blockchain
A
Happy
to
get
started
so
my
name
is
John
Jordan
and
I
work
for
the
province
of
British,
Columbia
and
I'm
here
with
a
new,
a
new
friend,
Martine
Twain's,
Wednesday
Weinstein
from
universe,
Yale,
University
and
we're
gonna
and
I
was
supposed
to
be
here
also
with
a
new
friend
Julie
Goodman
who's,
the
executive
director
of
the
elf
energy
project,
but
she
wasn't
able
to
make
it
this
time.
So,
hopefully,
we'll
represent
some
of
her
ideas
and
interests
along
the
way.
A
So
we're
gonna
talk
a
bit
about
our
experience.
You
know
in
the
climate
space
some
of
the
collaborations
were
trying
to
build,
will
dive
into
a
little
bit
of
examples,
and
I
will
talk
a
little
bit
about
provincials
the
activities
that
were
undertaking
a
little
bit
more
of
a
provincial
view,
and
then
our
team
is
gonna,
take
a
global
view,
planetary
view
and
he
likes
to
say
and
I
think
we'll
go
back
and
forth
a
little
bit
and
I
think
we're
both
very
comfortable
to
take
any
questions,
particularly
the
audience
isn't
huge.
B
While
the
the
presentation
was
around
clean,
gross
I
think
the
framing
things
around
climate
and
pregnancy
level
is
very
a
very
good
framing
to
thinking
about.
How
do
we
have
economic,
social
growth
in
a
sustainable
planet
so
and
discussing
the
roles
of
the
technologies?
That
bridge
claim
has
been
incubating
the
projects
that
we've
been
incubating
at
Yale
and
then,
hopefully,
we
have
some
rich
base
ground
for
for
even
richer
dialogue
with
with
you
guys
as
well.
A
So
yeah
I
thought
somehow
I
can
make
this
work.
So
I
was
gonna
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
context
like
you
know.
Why
am
I
talking
about
this
subject?
You
know,
and
a
little
bit
and
little
later,
I'll
get
into
why
as
a
government,
where
we're
making
investments
in
the
kind
of
technology
and
capabilities
that
we're
doing
in
the
hyper
ledger
family.
So
you
know
fundamentally
like
as
a
government.
Bc
is
very
serious
about
about
climate
and,
being
you
know,
encouraging
responsible
havior
as
a
jurisdiction
itself
and
also
the
actors
in
our
jurisdictions.
A
So
we
have
a
very.
We
have
a
very
strong
partnership
with
industry
through
the
Clean
BC
initiative,
where
there's
a
variety
of
incentives
to
invest
in
green
technologies
and
also
you
know,
we
have
a
carbon
tax
in
VC
that
is
universally
applied.
There's
no
escape
clause,
30
bucks,
a
ton
I
think
it
is
I'm,
not
the
subject
matter
expert
on
that,
but
one
of
the
real
privileges
of
working
in
the
provincial
government
is
I,
get
to
work
in
many
different
sectors,
and
so
this
is
one
of
them
and
and
of
course
Canada
is
a
private.
A
As
a
signatory
to
the
Paris
agreement
and
in
Canada
being
organized
into
provinces,
the
provinces
being
responsible
for
energy
and
jurisdiction,
there's
a
collaboration
between
the
provincial
and
federal
levels
as
we
sort
of
face
the
world.
And
you
know
the
kind
of
global
climate
issues
that
we
are
part.
C
A
A
A
Today,
so
we,
this
is
something
we
want
to
sort
of
investigate
and
finally,
from
a
technology
point
of
view,
there's
you
know
we
can
see.
Some
evidence
of
of
activities
are
occurring
in
our
own
sort
of
hyper
ledger
community
and
in
the
Linux
Foundation
community
at
large
I
just
met
Julie
before
Christmas,
literally,
because
somebody
emailed
me
and
said:
hey,
John,
you're
doing
some
stuff
in
energy
space.
B
Had
already
like
a
couple
of
mediums
was
surely
to
explore
the
intersection
between
what
John's
doing
of
British
Columbia
what
we've
been
doing
at
Yale,
with
with
this
project
we've
been
innovated
called
open
climate
and
the
role
of
a
Linux
Foundation
energy
to
create
frameworks
and
standards
and
opportunities
and
pilots.
So
it's
it's
pretty.
She
was
named
not
able
to
come,
but
it's
it's.
It's
a
glimpse
of
the
type
of
collaborations
that
are
needed
and
yet
to
come.
Yeah.
A
And
I
would
say,
I
think
she
might
also
say
that
we
had
hope
we'd
be
moving
faster
and
have
even
more
to
show
today.
But
part
of
what
we're
here
to
to
learn
from
and
to
share
is
that
you
know
building
a
collaboration.
Is
it
does
take
a
little
time?
We
have
to
understand
each
other,
we're
all
on
our
tracks
and
we
need
to
find
ways
in
which
our
tracks
can
be.
Can
you
know
mingle
with
each
other
and
find
that
common
space
to
deliver
some
positive
outcomes?
For
our?
B
That
sort
of
India
the
beginning
of
the
year,
actually,
particularly
while
Davos,
was
happening
in
the
World
Economic
Forum.
We
announced
the
launch
of
the
climate
action
and
accounting
special
interest
group
at
hyper
ledger.
I
noticed
last
year
when
we
were
starting
to
work
around
climate
accounting
in
in
the
hyper
ledger
space
that
there
was
a
lack
of
a
center
of
gravity
around
this
discussion
and
in
2020
you
know
Telugu
why
2020
is
so
important
in
the
climate
history
it
was.
B
It
would
make
made
a
lot
of
sense
to
have
a
space
for
dialogue,
and
so
we
launched
this.
We
had
already
two
meetings
of
a
special
interest
group,
so
I
encourage
you
when
you
go
into
the
wiki
of
hyper
ledger,
you'll
go
into
projects,
climate
actions,
sake
and
then
you'll
you'll
be
able
to
see
a
bit
of
what's
happening.
B
So
I
the
open
innovation
lab
is
the
product
I
started
at
Yale
two
years
ago,
with
the
big
vision
that
there's
a
there's:
a
huge
growth
and
and
further
transformation
of
the
of
the
digital
into
a
different
aspects
of
society
and
emerging
digital
technologies
like
IOT,
AI
and
a
blockchain
and
mixed
reality
can
have
a
critical
role
in
our
large
planetary
challenges
but
at
the
same
time,
probably
the
most
important
technology
that
we
have
at
hand.
Is
that
our
for
radical
collaboration
as
we
frame
it?
B
And
so
this
kind
of
led
to
an
open
innovation
space
where
we
host
projects
that
are
particularly
kind
of
they
have
bald
ideas
because
they
tap
directly
at
a
planetary
level,
and
that
comes
from
a
framework
of
being
able
to
map
complex
systems,
identify
key
leverage,
points
to
unleash
system
transformation
and
then
design
projects
to
tap
into
that.
And
so
those
that's
kind
of
like
the
I
know
it's
quite
abstract,
but
the
lens
that
we
use
to
define
which
projects
we
incubate
at
the
lab
and
they're
not
really
incubated
at
the
lab.
B
They
were
incubated
at
the
network
where
we
try
to
embed
ourselves
in
and
so
John
is
British
Columbia.
So
you
can
example
of
one
of
many
networks
that
we
need
to
be
able
to
work
with
multiple
organizations
and
I
can't
think
of
a
better
place
to
do
these
open
and
neutral
collaborations
for
open
protocol
standards
and
projects
than
universities
which
need
to
be
restored.
Zuv
knowledge
same
as
government,
and
so
one
of
the
projects.
There
is
called
open
climate
and
it
came
from
a
couple
years
ago.
B
My
background
has
been
in
in
energies
in
the
energy
space,
but
while
I
was
doing,
my
PhD
I
interact
a
lot
with
climate
scientists
and
it
I
finally
was
able
to
wrap
my
head
around
the
concept
of
our
global
planetary
carbon
budget,
the
physical
amount
of
space
that
we
have
left
in
our
unique
atmosphere
to
keep
pumping
greenhouse
gases,
and
so
that's
a
single
account
that
everyone
has
and
we
have
to
manage
so
thinking
of
distributed,
ledger
technologies
as
a
sub
as
a
group
as
among
one
one
things
accounting
technology
figured.
Is
there
a?
B
Is
there
a
connection
that
we
can
make
between
managing
our
planetary
budget
and
the
role
that
blockchains
and
deities
can
have
into
that?
And
then
it
it
got
a
lot
more
complicated
when
we
started
bringing
in
politics
countries
the
Paris
agreement,
etc.
So
we've
been
incubating
that
project
ever
since,
like
can
we
have
a
global
climate
accounting
system.
I
have
a
couple
slides
to
show
a
bit
about
where
we're
going,
but
I
think
that
that
might
be
a
good
pass.
B
A
A
You
know
there's
a
way
to.
We
believe
there
could
be
a
way
to
you
know:
I
call
it
like
instrument
the
infrastructure
with
digital
trust
in
such
a
way
that
we
can
do
that
in
sort
of
small
scale,
but
it
scales
out
to
a
global
context,
so
I'm
sort
of
considering
the
things
that
we're
doing
about.
How
do
we
create
the
trust
of
all
countable
things
that
can
be
accounted
for
as
we
look
at
managing
the
global
balance?
A
B
A
So
it's
a
good
start
here,
so
I'm
gonna
bring
up
this
this
kind
of
a
schematic
here
and
when
we
help
make
it
a
little
bigger,
so
what's
quite
different
about
the
model
of
a
verifiable
credential
is
that
it
is
a
digital
object
in
and
of
itself
and
the
the
origin
of
it
comes
from
trying
to
solve
sort
of
digital
identity
problems.
So
there
was
a
number
of
difficult
problems
that
needed
to
be
managed.
A
In
that
context,
we
wanted
to
stay
away
from
this
kind
of
world
that
was
introduced
back
in
the
mainframe
days,
the
idea
of
logon.
This
is
kind
of
a
broken
concept
that
leads
to
the
problems
that
were
experiencing
today
when
we
have
what
I
call
mr.
log
and
interfering
with
our
relationships
online
and
the
bigger
mr.
log
and
challenges
that,
as
we
discovered
that
having
all
these
single
accounts
was
difficult
and
we
thought
to
ourselves,
oh
well,
we
could
federate
the
services
and
have
single
sign-on.
We
did.
A
We
forgot
to
think
about
the
governance
aspects
of
that.
You
know
it
wasn't
part
of
our
mental
model,
because
we
sort
of
were
scaling
out
this
enterprise
view
of
the
world
we'll
have
this
kind
of
single
sign-in
context,
and
so
you
know
mr.
log
in
here
is
something
that
resides
in
some
large
organizations
that
have
a
great
deal
of
insight
into
our
behaviors
that
maybe
we
did.
A
We
want
to
sort
of
mitigate,
so
this
model
of
the
verifiable
credential
sort
of
works
to
to
mitigate
those
kinds
of
risks
and
the
involvement
of
a
blockchain
is
sort
of
at
the
lower
levels
where
it
deals
with
the
basically
and
I
am
Nathan
who's.
One
of
the
core
designers
of
this
stuff
is
here,
so
you
know,
block
your
ears
but
I
just
kind
of
talk
about
it
as
a
public
key
ring.
A
The
the
application
of
this
to
this
kind
of
world
is,
if
we
look
at
if
we
look
at
an
example
of
the
application
of
this
model,
to
a
construct
that
we're
familiar
with
like
in
the
financial
system,
the
pink
characters
there
have
to
do
with
how
we
develop
trust
and
how
we
manage
trust
in
a
particular
community.
So
in
this
case
the
MasterCard
community
MasterCard
has
something
called
a
governance
framework.
A
This
is
the
rules
by
which
they
operate
their
systems
and
each
of
the
actors
and
system
has
also
a
set
of
an
agreement
that
they've
agreed
to.
So
you
have
a
cardholder
agreement.
The
banks,
as
issuers
have
a
bank
agreement
with
MasterCard
and
the
merchants
have
a
merchant
agreement
to
me
when
I
looked
at
the
Paris
agreement,
for
example.
Well,
that's
a
that's
a
governance
framework.
A
We
generalize
that
kind
of
into
something
that
we
call
our
starting
to
call
the
trust
over
IP
stack
and
you
know,
without
getting
I'm,
not
going
to
go
into
the
details
here
to
Thursday
we're
running
a
full-day
workshop
and
we'll
dive
into
this
in
great
detail
with
working
code
and
apps
that
you
can
use
on
your
phone
to
get
credentials.
It'll
be
great
fun.
But
the
really
key
thing
here
is
that
what
we've
done
is
we
together?
A
As
a
community
have
said,
you
know
what
governance
is
a
first-class
citizen
with
technology,
no
technology
decisions
occur
without
people
being
involved
in
getting
coordinated
and
understanding
how
to
work
together,
and
that's
something
that
had
been
forgotten
in
the
past
I
think.
So
what
does
that
mean
for
us
in
in
system
in
getting
back
to
the
climate
in
the
county?
So
you
can
Martine,
tell
you
more
interesting
things
so
again
getting
back
to
the
idea
of
what
does
government
do?
Well,
what
do
we
do?
We're
an
issuer?
A
That's
our
core
business
and
some
of
the
things
we
do.
We
issue
fund
foundational
things
like
we
issue
your
identity
attributes,
so
they
can
be
recognized
by
others
and
right
now
you
get
that
in
the
form
of
a
card,
usually,
but
now
we're
learning
how
to
do
that
as
a
digital
credential,
which
is
portable
in
your
control,
protects
your
personal
agency,
respects
your
privacy
and
yet
others
can
rely
on
it.
As
truth,
we
also
do
that
for
legal
entities.
A
So
this
is
a
service
that
we've
built
that
has
all
the
legal
entities
in
British
Columbia
issued
to
it
as
a
credential.
This
is
a
demonstration
site.
We
have
a
production
system
with
there's
over
a
million
entities
in
it
or
invoke
BC.
That's
gov
DC
CA,
but
this
one
is
loaded
with
some
extra
credentials
that
we
don't
have
live
yet
which
are
well
permit.
Credentials
against
the
legal
entity
show
well,
and
so
these
credentials
would
emanate
from
a
government
agency
called
the
oil
and
gas
commission.
A
Technologists
exactly,
and
so
the
idea
here
is
that
in
this
case
we
have
a
public
repository
of
these
permits,
which
other
services
can
access
via
API
and
by
using
an
areas.
Agent
can
ask
the
org
book
for
a
verifiable
proof
of
this
system
of
this.
Well,
so
I,
don't
know
this
is
seems
to
be
able
to
demo
God's
goodness
Stephen.
Can
you
text
wait?
A
These
are
happening
on
them,
so
so
the
idea
here
is,
for
example,
and
we've
done
a
small
POC
with
a
firm
where
you
can
ask
the
org
book
for
this
verifiable
proof,
which
you
can
then
embed
in
a
suite
of
data.
That
includes
the
volumetrics
of
the
of
the
gas
in
a
pipeline
and
and
and
then
in
that
case,
that
suite
of
data,
which
includes
the
volume
metrics
and
the
GPS
coordinates
of
the
well
as
issued
by
the
government
against
a
credential
legal
entity.
A
Credential
issued
by
the
government
can
start
to
do
proof
of
origin,
and
if
we
can
do
proof
of
origin
and
we
have
instrumentation
and
appropriate
calculations,
we
can
add
greenhouse
gas
profiles
to
this.
And
that
was
where
you
know
the
transition
to
the
thing
that
is
countable
that
that
greenhouse
gas
profile
could
be
certified
by
the
Government
of
Canada
under
the
Paris
agreement
governance
framework
and
that
could
then
be
input.
B
B
A
Like
that's,
not
something
we're
doing
yet,
but
we
actually,
just
today
on
our
cloud
cloud
Agent
Python
channel,
we
had
a
fellow
asking
about
how
to
get
a
cloud
agent
working
on
a
Raspberry,
Pi,
mm-hmm
and
a
hyper
ledger.
Intern
did
it
last
summer
as
well
and
issued
a
temperature
credential
mm-hmm.
So
for
sure,
what
we're
interested
in
working
with
industry
on
and
academics
is
embedding
this
kind
of
technology
right
into
a
device
that
device
could
be
authorized
to
emit
a
data
stream
directly
to
a
government
regulatory
system
via
its
control,
plane
or
perhaps
directly.
A
You
know,
depends
on
the
intelligence
device,
and
we
could
know
that
data
stream
is
authorized
by
a
person
who
is
associated
to
the
organization,
that's
legally
registered
in
the
province,
and
so
we
can
have
the
full
provenance
of
the
data
stream,
which
we
can
then
emit
back
to
them
as
a
permit
or
license
which
they
can
then
use
to
present
to
a
investor
to
say.
Yep,
our
data
came
straight
from
our
devices.
It
was
monitored
by
the
government.
The
government
made
a
determination
that
were
within
the
bounds
of
our
permitted
admissions
or
whatever.
A
B
B
A
B
B
The
math
for
ourselves
for
our
companies
for
our
sub-national
governments
and
cities
for
our
countries
and
the
planet
as
a
whole
is
the
peak
emissions
by
this
year
to
half
our
emissions
by
2030
have-have
the
next
amount,
so
bringing
it
down
to
a
75%
reduction
by
2040
and
go
to
Net
Zero
by
2050
Net
Zero.
What
it
means
is
that
if
we
admit
it
to
something,
we
should
have
created
a
sequestration,
an
anthropogenic
sequestration,
to
balance
that
out,
so
that
is
essentially
an
accounting
framework
for
credits
and
debits.
B
At
a
planetary
level,
but
but
but
that
means
to
build
from
the
nested
level
of
we
as
individuals,
companies,
provinces,
countries
and
one
of
the
things
that
has
put
me
in
a
sense
of
urgency
in
the
last
year
is
that
that
degree
of
robust
accounting
is
actually
missing.
The
United
Nations
Framework
Convention
on
Climate
Change
is
in
charge
of
managing
the
Paris
agreement,
and
the
timeline
that
is
there
is
around.
B
What's
called
a
global
stock,
take
every
country
put
forward
a
nationally
determined
contributions
which
are
more
or
less
than
mission
ambitious,
but
those
have
to
be
revised
every
five
years.
The
first
one.
This
year
we
ran
into
a
revision
of
the
nationally
determined
contributions
and
November
in
Glassboro
would
a
cop
26,
which
is
a
conference
of
the
parties
and
then
every
and
2023.
We
do
the
first
one
and
then
again,
every
five
years.
The
level
of
data
orchestration
that
needs
to
happen
is
far
from
robust
and
that
just
looks
at
at
country
level.
B
If
we
want
to
know
what
are
the
global
historic
emissions
or
the
last
reported
emissions
of
a
country
level,
normally
we're
going
to
see
things
that
are
two
or
three
years
old.
So
we
we
really
lack
what
I
put
there
an
integrated
climate
account
and
accountability
mechanism,
because
we
are
seeing
so
many
non-state
actors
pledging,
but
there
is
actually
no
framework
to
keep
them
accountable
and
even
ourselves,
with
our
personal
pledges,
a
common
platform
to
manage
this
and
in
a
clear
linkage
between
how
robust
climate
accounting
actually
has
a
capacity
to
unleash
unprecedented
economic
opportunities.
B
So
you
know
I'm
not
going
to
dive
into
the
detail
of
what's
been
the
framework
that
we've
been
working
on,
but
when
I
talked
about
the
use
of
accounting
technology
to
monitor
our
planetary
carbon
budget,
that's
the
bottom
part.
Then
we
started
adding
rural
system.
Registries
is
the
the
registration
of
countries
of
cities
that
keep
track
of
the
of
their
carbon
inventory
and
how
those
need
to
be
nested
between
nations,
sub-national
and
non-state
actors
and
then,
finally,
a
huge
opportunity
and
I'll
shows
a
dumbed
down.
B
Version
of
this
are
just
focusing
on
the
red
part
of
how
do
we
create
certifications
of
climate
action,
climate
value,
whether
those
are
positive
or
negative,
those
those
debits
and
credits,
how
those
can
enter
into
a
more
global
network
climate
market
and
how
that
fundamentally
needs
to
unlock
climate
finance.
To
just
need
the
Paris
agreement.
We
need
to
put
at
least
a
trillion
dollars
a
year,
and
so
how
do
we
track
every
dollar
into
climate
value?
To
make
sure
that
that
actually
helps
us
is
a
huge
part
of
what
this
project
is
about.
B
That's
a
good
example
of
mitigation,
but
it's
just
one
small
part
of
energy,
and
actually
that's
been
a
lot
of
that
discussions.
We've
had
with
Shirley
and
Aleph
energy
is
is
how
do
we
understand
and
create
mechanisms
to
distinguish
a
green
electron
from
a
brown
electron
which
really
requires
a
lot
of
accounting
at
the
power
system
level,
but
then
there's
adaptation.
Adaptation
is,
for
example,
creating
more
resilience
in
the
face
of
climate
impacts.
Those
are
not
measured
with
carbon
right.
B
At
the
global
level
that
we
should
be
speaking
what's
a
common
platform
of
platforms
that
and
I'm
going
kind
of
deep
into
these
slides,
but
one
of
the
key
protocols
we've
been
working
on
with
the
project
called
the
spatial
web
that
that
has
a
spatial
based
networking
protocol
that
we
thought
particularly
interesting,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
one
of
the
key
parts
of
linking
non-state
actor
pledges.
So
a
company
when
Microsoft
says
we're
gonna
be
carbon
neutral
by
2030
or
2040.
B
How
do
those
account
at
the
national
level?
How
do
they
fit
within
the
Paris
agreement?
You
might
have
heard
of
the
we're
still
in
coalition,
when
Donald
Trump
announced
that
it
had
the
intention
of
moving
out
of
the
Paris
agreement.
All
non-state
and
sub-national
actors
are
a
huge
part
of
it.
We're
like
we
want
to
be
in
the
Paris
agreement.
Now
the
truth
is
that's
just
in
word
it
does.
Their
actions
are
not
directly
counted
in
the
Paris
agreement
at
the
moment.
B
So
we
think
that
a
way
to
connect-
that
is
by
by
understanding
that
when
you
retire
an
acid
which
is
an
actor
through
the
use
of
some
of
your
credentials
and
the
credentials
of
that
action
itself-
and
it's
retired
means
that
taking
out
of
the
market,
then
they
can
be
retired
at
a
nested
jurisdictional
level.
So
this
is
why
we
talk
a
bit
about
nested,
climate
accounting
and
even
thinking
about
user
interfaces.
B
We
work
with
with
a
Spanish
company
called
bird
Rolla,
which
one
the
biggest
were
noble
engine
copies
in
the
world
around
doing
some
pilots
and
proof
of
concepts
at
Yale,
University
we're
based
in
Connecticut.
So
we
do.
We
try
to
do
things
locally,
but
it's
like
how
do
we
link
a
solar
array,
or
in
this
case
they
use
a
fuel
cell?
We
were
doing
a
fuel
cell
which
actually
would
require
a
bit
of
their
certification
of
origin
from
the
natural
gas
that
comes
in
to
the
fuel.
A
A
B
One
plane-
oh
well,
that
was
this
is
the
kind
of
the
the
point
around
the
special
interest
group
that
we
talked
about
before.
Is
that
I
hope
you
you
get
how
how
interesting,
important
and
exciting
this
field
is,
and
this
led
us
to
almost
like
a
no-brainer.
So
let's
have
a
special
interest
group
within
hyper
ledger
so
that
we
can
discuss
how
we
can
leverage
multiple
technology
stacks
from
the
hyper
ledger
world
and
the
integration
with
other
ones
around
the
concept
of
climate
action
and
accounting,
and
we
meet
every
two
Tuesdays
8:00
a.m.
A
Is
that
I
think
we
can
work
down
at
this
project
level?
You
know
we
can
work
at
a
company
level.
We
can
work
at
a
state
level.
We
can
work
at
a
country
level,
so
I
have
visibility
into
sort
of.
You
know
provincial
state
level,
country
level,
things
registries,
for
example.
You
know
we
can
instrument,
you
know
legal
entity,
registries,
permitting
registries
and
so
forth.
At
the
you
know,
state
and
national
levels.
What
is
part
of
instrumenting
the
whole?
A
You
know
a
complex
adaptive
system
with
trust
right
and
then,
if
we
can
start
to,
you
know
instrumenting
interactions
that
are
occurring
between
these
actors
again
with
verifiable
credentials
and
proofs
and
those
things
are
portable
and
interoperable
and
and
trustable
through
various
governance
frameworks,
and
we
don't
need
like
one
gravitons
framework
to
rule
the
morrow.
We
we
have
our
own
NBC,
but
when
BC
says
something
and
Canada
certifies
it,
then,
through
the
Paris
agreement
we
have
a
means
to
create
trust
through
the
governance
frameworks
and
so
back
to
that
stack
and
the
dual
trust.
A
A
You
know
and
here's
the
kind
of
data
that
was
in
it.
This
is
actual
real
data
from
the
from
the
authoritative
system.
It's
we
don't
yet
have
these
credentials
kind
of
live
if
you
like,
but
we
have
them
in
demo
systems.
So
the
idea
here
is
that
this
this
is
available
through
an
API,
so
you
can
get
the
data
or,
if
you
really
want
it,
you
can
ask
for
the
cryptographic
proof
from
this
system,
because
the
or
book
is
actually
a
holder.
It's
a
public
holder.
It
doesn't
hold
credentials
about
itself.
A
B
I
find
fascinating
about
this
is,
and
we
were
talking
before
around
I
say:
there's,
there's
two
major
double-entry
bookkeeping
that
we
need
to
do
once
at
the
earth
system
level,
which
is
purely
planetary.
There's
no
such
thing
as
boundaries,
it's
all
one
atmosphere
and
the
other
ones.
The
world
actors
like
what
we
measure
at
the
planetary
level
to
do
our
co2
emissions
through
our
co2
sensors.
B
That's
what's
the
state
of
the
planet,
so
we
could
do
clear
counting
at
the
planetary
level,
but
that
needs
to
sink
around
how
we
do
that'
climbing
at
the
world
level,
and
so
eventually
those
need
to
match.
I
think
it's
going
to
be.
You
know
a
while
until
we
get
those
numbers
to
match,
but
the
other
one
is
really
goes
down
to
these
whales.
B
So
when
we
think
about
energy,
which
is
around
70
to
80
percent
of
the
climate
problem
because
of
the
combustion
of
fossil
fuels,
we
have
to
think
in
terms
of
upstream
and
downstream,
and
upstream
is
those
specific
wells
right
and
the
that's
the
second
level
of
double-entry
bookkeeping.
When
when
we
look
at
measuring
carbon
normally,
the
protocol
is
called
the
greenhouse
gas
protocol,
which
is
divided
into
scope.
B
One
scope,
two
in
scope,
three
scope,
one
or
direct
emissions
that
an
organization
does
so
let's
say
that
there's
emissions
at
the
at
the
well
level,
but
from
shell
at
NBC
those
need
to
be
accounted
within
shell
and
with
NB
c--.
But
then,
once
those
products
are
sold,
they
go
downstream
and
then,
when
I
use
that
gas
and
it
and
I
use
it
for
my
own
operations,
those
are
my
scope
once
right.
Those
are
the
ones
that
I
account
for.
B
So
it's
very
important
to
understand
that
the
relationship
between
that
supply
and
demand
as
we're
doing
that
level
of
accounting.
So
what
I
was
explaining
is
that
the
the
fuel
that
I
consume
from
shell
is
is
shells
scope,
3,
which
is
their
indirect
emissions,
bringing
in
a
lot
more
digital
transformation
to
this
whole
process
and
transparency,
which
is
a
key
part
of
the
Paris
agreement.
B
Thanks
to
the
interplay
of
between
different
tools.
That
you've
also
presented
really
allows
us
to
be
able
to
monitor
openly,
and
my
view
is
that
every
point
in
the
planet
where,
where
anyone
is
extracting
fossil
fuels,
that
should
be
a
radically
transparent
layer,
because
that
is
a
resource
that
is
not
really
owned
by
anyone.
A
C
B
So
there's
things
get
a
bit
complicated
when
it
comes
down
to,
for
example,
a
carbon
credit
from
renewable
energy
generated,
but
in
general,
like
a
debit,
would
be
your
carbon
emissions
provable
emissions
that
were
that
happened
if
I
say,
there's
X
amount
of
fuel
that
went
into
your
car
by
the
ratios
of
the
type
of
fuel.
We
can
calculate
exactly
how
much
was
where
your
emissions
right.
B
So
those
are
the
ones
that
that
you're,
directly
responsible
for
a
credit
would
be
if
you
start
creating,
for
example,
land-based
solutions
and
the
simplest
ones
is
reforestation,
planting
trees
a
tree
went
around
what
would
capture
around
a
ton
of
carbon
in
its
lifetime
just
to
keep
math
simple?
So
if
there
is
what's
called
additionality,
is
that
the
trees
that
you've
brought
into
are
there
because
of
the
climate
intent
and
the
need
for
certifying
it,
then
those
can
be
certified
and
those
can
be
used
to
offset,
which
is
when
to
take
a
flight.
B
You're
you're
offered
a
credit
of
carbon
offset
that
may
have
created
that
credit
elsewhere.
For
example,
Canada
has
a
huge
potential
to
be
a
net
carbon
credit
issuer.
If
it
transforms
its
forest
economy
into
a
climate
mitigation
engine
right
by
sequestering
carbon
and
things
that
get
slightly
difficult,
when
your
green
energy
is
displacing
dirtier
electrons,
let's
say
because
what
you're
measuring
is
what
didn't
happen
right
with
with
the
tree
the
tree?
If
it
remains
and
it
has
permanence,
it
will
sustain
there.
B
So
often
you
have
to
do
those
credits
that
are
in
around
like
what
would
have
been
the
business
as
usual,
and
what
did
we
do
instead?
So
an
energy
efficiency
program
is
is
very
important.
It's
like
it's.
The
end
of
the
most
cleanest
energy
is
the
one
we
don't
use
so
for
that
we
kind
of
have
to
have
a
benchmark
of
what
would
have
been
our
normal
consumption
and
then
what's
our
efficiency
program.
Now,
that's
very
important
for
financing,
because
you
can.
A
I
think
you
can
see,
then
the
need
for
both
a
trustable
way
to
count
things
and
a
governance
framework
great
because
when
you
get
into
situations
where
you're
talking
about
like
avoidance
well,
that
has
to
be
somehow
auditable
and
improvable
right.
It's
not
just
a
technology
problem,
it's
a
governance
problem
as
well,
right
and
so
yeah.
So
that's
kind
of
a
very
important
point
to
all
of
this.
A
It's
it's
got
to
be
the
two
kinds
of
worlds
working
together
and-
and
you
can
see
that,
like
in
some
of
the
negotiations,
that's
where
resistance
starts
to
come.
Like
you
know
the
transparency,
so
so
the
very
key
thing
here
is
like
is
that
creating
greater
observability
and
integrity
of
industrial
operations
allows
us
to
see
what's
happening
with
greater
degree
of
certainty
and
that's
a
little
a
lot
of
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
like
reduce
uncertainty.
We
want
to
know
what's
happening.
We
can't
make
it
better
if
we
can't
measure
it.
B
The
dead
level
of
transparency
and
understanding
is
also
critical,
as
whole
industries
are
and
will
be
in
the
process
of
transformation.
I
mean
that
that
big
peak,
a
drop
of
emissions
requires
that
a
company
like
shell,
for
example,
of
what
falls
within
the
group
of
carbon
majors,
needs
to
transform
its
business
model
yesterday,
if
it,
if
we're
gonna,
get
to
Net
Zero
by
2050,
BP
just
announced
our
there
their
plan
for
aiming
to
Net
Zero.
B
So
that's
an
entire
business
model
transformation
pathway,
which
requires
a
lot
of
this
high
degree
of
visibility
and
transparency,
possible
lack
of
financial
opportunities
for
that
to
happen,
and
also
to
send
signals
from
companies
that
are
probably
are
more
exposed
to
high
carbon
assets
that
that
can
replicate
into
their
ESG
metrics,
for
example,
which
obviously
sends
a
signal
back
to
investors.
So
this
is
kind
of
where
you
know
we
got
really
excited
around
kind
of
starting
to
paint
a
bit
the
picture
of
how
this
fits
within
the
financial
world
questions.
D
A
Our
case,
so
in
our
case,
part
of
this
is
just
like
a
public
good
like
being
able
to
do
this.
The
part
of
a
pitch
for
us
is
exactly
what
Carm
Martine
mentioned.
Is
there
sort
of
so
as
the
government?
You
know
these
these
organizations
that
are
in
taking
activity
and
they're
creating
pollution
which
endowment
economy,
the
economics
we'll
call
a
negative
externality
in
order
to
manage
negative
externalities,
we
either
tax
or
we
permit.
So
we
limit
things
right.
We
can
reduce
supply,
that's
our
tool.
A
What
I'm
trying
to
encourage
is
like
another
mechanism,
and
on
top
of
that,
and
in
order
for
us
to
understand
how
much
to
tax
them
and
how
much
will
be
permit
them.
We
create
a
regulatory
system.
That's
quite
high
friction
which
is
like
almost
up
there
attacks.
So
what
we're
trying
to
kind
of
pitch
this
a
like!
Let's
make
this
easier
for
them
to
comply.
A
We
create
greater
observability
integrity
of
the
system
by
both
of
us
having
a
set
of
technologies
that
are
interoperable
so
that
we
can
exchange
data
and
trustworthy
ways
and
because
we
have
a
fairly
like
NBC
anyways
our
competitive
advantages
that
we
have
a
fairly
strict
regulatory
environment.
We
actually
care
about
emissions,
we
manage
we
manage
if
the
best
we
can
we'd
like
to
do
better.
A
We
have
government
government
relations
with
First
Nations,
and
these
are
things
that
we
want
to
be
able
to
give
our
companies
proof
that
they're
doing
that,
so
they
can
use
that
as
a
differentiator
in
the
market,
so
the
minerals
and
fuels
and
and
other
products
and
sustainable
energy
as
they
move
forward.
They
can
prove
to
the
market
that
this
was.
A
You
know
done
on
land
that
was
approved
by
the
First
Nations,
that
it
met
the
regulatory
frameworks
that
we
were
measuring,
the
the
the
climate
impacts
and
we
can
see
them
going
down
over
time
and
that's
an
advantage
for
them
from
an
investor
point
of
view
and
that's
an
advantage
for
them
from
their
supply
chain.
Point
of
view
that
makes.
B
You
measure
a
mission
of
a
company
by
looking
at
its
entire
operation,
and
then
you
start
dividing
by
that
protocol.
That
I
mentioned
around
scope.
One
scope,
two
scope:
three:
what
are
direct
emissions
direct
emissions
would
be
any
direct
combustion.
Any
land-use
change,
any
its
fleet
of
cars,
its
airfare
use
of
flights
to
sex
Kopu
to
is
the
use
of
electricity
and
scope.
Three
are
direct
emissions,
so
that's
it
kind
of
goes
back
to
one
example
of
like
who
are
the
clients
from
the
open
climate
vision.
It
is
everyone
it's
it's
you
because
this
is.
B
This
is
part
of
like
accounting,
to
keep
in
a
keep
us
in
a
sustainable
livable
planet
so
that
that
applies
to
everyone,
but
obviously,
if
we
think
about
accounting,
it
really
also
applies
in
terms
of
taxes.
Like
everyone
pays
taxes,
which
means
everyone
has
to
have
clear
books,
whether
you're,
an
individual
that
you're
a
company
or
your
state.
So
a
robust
accounting
structure
unleashes
a
lot
of
financial
opportunities,
but
also
creates
you
know
different
mechanisms
for
operation
for
the
entire
economy.
Right.
B
D
B
Yeah
so
I
mean
that
goes
back
to
climate
science
right
then,
and
there
and
running
integrative
assessment
models,
I
think
at
the
international
level.
These
type
o
numbers
are
well
established
because
we
also
need
to
have
heuristics.
You
can
run
integrated.
So
when
we
say
here's
our
remaining
carbon
budget,
this
is
we're
talking
about
a
planetary
level
and
and
here's
our
goal
for
Net
Zero
2050.
That
is
because
we've
run
multiple
general
circulation
models
of
planet,
Earth,
smelted
but
times
or
supercomputers,
have
to
run
this
and
there's
different
ways
of
creating
those
models.
B
But
the
main
the
main
vehicle
to
compare
them
is
called
the
seam
up
six
couple
model
into
a
person
project
that
feeds
into
the
IPCC
through
the
IPCC,
looks
the
entire
climate
science
and
brings
down
a
very
clear
scientific
information
to
the
UN
after
receipt
of
the
UN
level.
So
all
of
this
is
quite
robust.
I
mean
there
if
you
say
well,
you've
peaked
in
June.
That
is
true,
but
the
more
you
delay,
the
more
you
will
have
to
sequester
later
I
can.
A
I
can
say,
like
I
was
in
the
room
with
Canada's
chief
climate
negotiator
and
the
of
a
very
large
companies,
climate
advisor
and
after
the
talks
in
December
that
didn't
result
in
the
rule
book
for
article
six
and
they're
meeting
to
say:
don't
I
mean
I,
they
were
disappointed.
The
rulebook
wasn't
established,
but
they're
continuing
to
act
as
if
it
is
because
it
doesn't
matter
like
about
January
or
June
or
whatever
they
know.
This
has
to
happen
and
they're
trying
to
continue
to
take
actions
to
make.
B
This
is
a
huge
opportunity
because
there's
nuances
in
the
numbers,
but
there's
also
leadership
for
stewardship.
So
when
a
company
says,
irrespective
of
those
nuances,
we
want
to
take
a
robust
stance
on
climate
because
with
the
changing
generation
we
know
that
our
license
to
operate
to
the
broader
mainstream
world.
We
need
to
show
that
degrees
of
robust
leadership
and
stewardship.
B
So
when
companies
take
that
action
or
is
like,
we
want
to
do
it
if,
if
the
guardrail
is
2050,
we
want
to
do
it
by
2040,
but
obviously
that's
where
a
lot
of
what
we're
working
on
is
to
be
able
to
have
a
robust
accounting
at
all
of
those
nested
actor
levels
and
I.
Think
that's
that's
really
what
what
we
need
is
the
you
know,
Bish's
goals
and
and
changing
from
from
point
of
like
different
opportunities
in
the
system,
to
really
a
clear,
clear
leadership
and
stewardship
from
from
all
organizations.