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From YouTube: Verifiable Organizations Network: A Production Government Deployment of Hyperledger Indy
Description
John Jordan, Province of British Columbia & Stephen Curran , CloudCompass Computing, Inc.
Learn about the Province of British Columbia's experience deploying the first Hyperledger Indy based production ecosystem.
The Verifiable Organizations Network (VON) enables governments and organizations to exchange data in trustworthy ways based on open standards and technology.
VON's founding members are governments who are, by law, trusted issuers of data about organizations. The Province of British Columbia, Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada have come together to create the initial services needed to establish VON.
VON's founders have delivered new Indy-based open source components which form VON's backbone. TheOrgBook is a publicly accessible repository of verifiable claims about organizations. VON-X enables services to verify and issue credentials.
We present the Why, What and How including our strategy for bootstrapping VON using a two-sided market strategy.
----
Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies
Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
It serves as a neutral home for various distributed ledger frameworks including Hyperledger Besu, Fabric, Sawtooth, Indy, as well as tools like Hyperledger Avalon, Cactus and libraries like Hyperledger Aries, Ursa. Learn more about Hyperledger projects: https://www.hyperledger.org/use
Case Studies: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies
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Webinars: https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/webinars
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A
So
my
name
is
John
Jordan
and
I
come
from
the
province
of
British
Columbia
in
Canada.
This
is
my
colleague
Steven
Curran.
We
work
together
on
this
project.
We're
gonna
talk
about
today,
so
I
guess,
I'll
just
get
started
and
we'll
have
some
slides
a
demo.
We
should
have
some
time
for
some
questions.
So
ian
is
also
here.
Are
there
colleague
Ian
over
here,
one
of
our
developers
as
well
he's
a
he's,
a
hyper
ledger
future
developer.
A
We're
gonna
focus
on
business
services
today
and
we're
gonna
talk
about
how
the
government
can
start
to
do
the
things
that
it
does
today
in
paper,
which
is
it
underpins
the
economy.
So
the
good
you
know,
money
exists
because
the
government
says
so.
Businesses
exist
because
the
government
registers
them
and
allows
them
to
operate,
and
the
laws
and
so
forth
of
the
of
the
government
allow
commerce
to
occur.
A
But
we
have
no
way
of
doing
that
in
the
digital
economy
right
now,
there's
no
business
models
in
the
digital
economy
other
than
basically
buying
stuff
and
getting
your
data
exploited
for
advertising.
So
if
you
have
a
Visa
card
you're
in
otherwise
there's
no
other
really
interesting
transactions
going
on
and
I.
Think
big
part
of
that
is
because
we
don't
have
any
way
of
extending
the
trust
of
government
into
the
digital
realm
in
a
way
that
is
trustworthy.
So
we're
going
to
talk
about
that.
This
is
our
fun
slide.
A
This
is
where
we're
from
Canada
with
a
variety
of
animals.
Quite
a
lot
of
space.
We
come
from
Victoria
BC
I
norm.
I
actually
grew
up
in
Ottawa,
which
is
around
the
beaver
and
people
think
that's
kind
of
humorous.
But
so
there
you
go.
That's
her!
That's
her.
I
also
want
to
acknowledge
that
I
do
all
this
work.
A
So
we're
gonna
focus
on
a
problem
here,
which
is
how
do
we
help
small
business?
We
have
sort
of
a
an
example
of
Mary's
bakery,
but
it
could
be
any
kind
of
business
construction,
mining,
whatever
it
is,
and
the
problem
is
that
these
business
people
are
very
excited
about
starting
a
business
is
an
exciting
time
in
life,
but
they
don't
realize
sometimes
that
they
have
quite
a
lot
of
obligations
that
they
must
fill
for
government.
A
So
we
have
examples
where
our
research
teams
have
gone
out
and
talked
to
restauranteurs
and
they
have
released
a
building
and
so
forth.
It's
the
perfect
spot.
Everything
is
great,
and
then
they
realize
oh
I've
got
six
months
of
permits
and
licenses
to
do
because
we
had
to
bring
it
up
to
building
code
and
they
didn't
realize
this
and
then
there's
all
these
dependencies
and
they
weren't
ready
to
fund
that
building
for
six
months.
A
So
those
are
like
real
stories
we'd
like
to
try
and
minimize
that
kind
of
stuff,
because
we
want
them
to
start
their
businesses
and
grow.
You
know
the
path
is
also
very
meandering
and
it
can
be
in
multiple
different
media.
You
can
be
faxing,
you
could
be
email,
you
could
be
online
you're
in
person
and
so
forth,
and
so
all
of
this
is
a
very
difficult
yeah,
both
for
the
business
people,
but
also
on
the
government
side.
We
are
also
in
different
places,
verifying
data
all
the
time
who
are
you?
A
What
business
we
representing
or
you
authorized
to
represent
the
businesses
in
the
most
complicated
cases
for
like
liquor
and
so
forth.
Shareholders
and
employees
have
criminal
background
checks.
They
make
sure
that
nobody
owns
more
than
8
stores
that
sells
liquor
and
so
forth,
and
so
on.
So
I
can
take
up
to
a
year.
So
what
do
we
do?
A
Well,
one
of
the
things
we're
doing
is
we're
collaborating
with
our
peers
and
a
couple
of
other
jurisdictions,
so
we're
working
with
a
team
in
Ontario
and
a
team
in
the
Government
of
Canada,
where
I
used
to
work
the
procurement
agency
and
when
we
say
working
together,
we're
actually
writing
code
together,
there's
no
mo
use,
no
steering
committees,
no
work
groups,
they
have
a
couple
devs
and
the
business
person.
We
have
a
couple
of
devs
in
a
business
person.
We
sprint
together,
write
code.
A
All
this
stuff,
we're
going
to
show
you
today
has
been
co-developed
and
significant
portions
have
been
done
by
each
of
the
groups.
This
is
the
journey
that
we'd
like
to
enable
it's
a
journey
that
we
know
well.
Government
gives
you
something
you
take
that
something
to
another
institution.
You
use
it
to
prove
something
and
you
get
and
you
get
the
outcome.
A
So,
in
this
case,
it's
the
incorporation,
information,
that's
given
to
Mary,
she
goes
to
the
bank
and
she
can
open
a
bank
account
turns
out
that
that's
a
very
general
pattern,
and
this
is
the
pattern
that
we
see
in
the
sort
of
verifiable
credentials
realm.
So
we
have
this
pattern
of
holder,
which
is
a
person
or
a
business,
but
a
business
can't
really
hold
something
on
their
own,
so
they
have
to
have
people
holding
it.
A
On
behalf
of
the
business
they
presented
to
a
verifier
which
is
earlier
in
the
sort
of
workflow
they
have
to
decide.
You
know,
verifier
says
bring
your
list
of
things
in
and
prove
prove
to
me
who
you
are,
and
you
have
various
permits
and
license
and
so
forth.
At
that
point,
you
then,
to
get
to
enter
their
form,
which
is
usually
not
that
Pleasant
go
through
a
process
and
then
you
are
issued,
something
which
you
hold,
and
so
this
is
the
pattern
that
we're
very
familiar
with
we're
sitting
with.
A
You
know
a
wallet
full
of
these
things:
I
have
bank
cards
and
identity
cards
and
so
forth,
and
we're
gonna
explore
how
we
can
do
that.
So
when
we
discovered
that
we
were
pretty
excited,
it
was
about
a
year
ago
that
we
stumbled
across
hyper
ledger
india,
after
having
done
a
little
bit
of
work
with
fabric-
and
you
know
so-
it
was
just
Stephen
and
I
on
the
team,
and
we
thought
you
know
if
it
looked
promising
that
there
was
this
pattern
here.
We
could
solve
some
of
these
hard
problems.
A
We've
been
working
on
for
years,
but
we
realized
we
didn't
have
any
of
these
software
for
these
different
organizations
or
people
like
there
was
no
somebody
mentioned
it
this
morning
that
the
classic
chicken
and
egg
problem
we
don't
have
any
software
out
there
that
we
can
issue
to
our
issuers,
don't
have
software
to
issue
and
so
forth,
but
so
we
had
a.
We
had
an
idea.
Actually
we
we
realized.
Actually,
in
this
case
government
is
a
little
bit
special,
which
I
don't
like
to
say
very
often,
but
it
turns
out
our
core
business
is
issuing.
A
That's
what
we
do.
Every
service
we
have
is
pretty
much
an
issuer,
so
we
thought
hmmm
what?
If
we?
What?
If
we
could
give
the
services
that
we
are
dealing
with
in
the
business
realm
somewhere
to
issue
to
we.
We
had
purposely
picked
business
realm,
because,
if
we're
dealing
with
business
data,
we're
not
triggering
all
the
personal
identifiable
information
problems,
so
you
know
all
the
in
the
BC.
A
We
call
it
fight
by
the
Freedom
of
Information
Act
and
Privacy
Protection
Act,
and
when
you
get
into
personal
data,
of
course
it
triggers
all
of
that
which
is
which
is
good,
but
it
makes
it
very
complicated
to
play
with
new
technologies.
So
we
just
dealing
with
open
business
data
right
now
and
we
thought
what
if
we
could
create
something
where
these
issuers
could.
What
you
know
issue
this
data
to,
and
it
would
be
a
public
thing
and
we
call
that
you
know
the
org
book.
A
So
this
is
a
bootstrapping
technique
that
we're
copying
from
Facebook
really,
which
is
to
say
that
we're
just
playing
with
one
side
of
the
market.
We're
gonna
deal
with
the
supply
side
of
the
market,
the
issuers
of
credentials,
or
you
know
more
commonly
known
as
permits
and
licenses,
and
because
they're,
public
and
because
they're
open.
We
can
do
that
and
create
this
directory
of
searchable
verifiable
data
and
we
can
build
software
for
the
issuers.
A
So
our
goal
was:
how
can
we
make
it
as
easy
as
possible
for
existing
services
to
be
able
to
issue
their
credentials
to
this
org
book,
starting
with
the
foundational
data
of
the
registry
and
we're
going
to
show
you
that?
So
when
we,
when
we
figured
that
out-
and
we
started
writing
this
code
built
on
top
of
hyper
ledger
in
D,
we-
we
realized
that
there
could
be
some
intermediate
benefits
here.
So
first
there's
some
public
good
and
the
searching
and
finding
of
data
will
show
you
that,
but
it
turns
out.
A
We
can
also
create
api's
and
so
forth
to
allow
that
data
be
searchable
and
we
created
a
an
agent
I
guess
we
call
an
enterprise
agent
for
services
to
be
able
to
verify
the
data
in
the
or
book
issue
it
so
later,
when
businesses
have
their
own
services
for
holding
verifiable
credentials.
Our
issuers
are
ready
so
now
I'm
gonna
hand
it
over
to
Stephen
I'm
gonna
drive.
B
Now
am
I
that
working
okay,
so
we'll
show
I
can
look
here,
that's
good.
So
this
is
what
the
orb
book
looks
like
in
British
Columbia.
So
there's
two
instances
and
we'll
show
you
them
both,
but
this
is
the
British
Columbia
or
book
and
it's
basically
a
kind
of
a
Yelp
type
site.
We've
got
five
hundred
twenty-five
thousand
active
legal
entities
in
British
Columbia.
Every
one
of
them
has
a
record
in
here.
They
have
the
credentials
that
the
registries
have
issued
to
them.
B
B
We've
got
other
capabilities
for
what
searches
we
can
provide
ways
to
filter
and
things,
but
when
we
get
into
it,
we
can
see
some
information
that
the
registry
publishes
so
previously
registered.
This
is
all
public
data.
This
is
all
open
data.
This
is
exactly
what
they
hang
on
their
walls
inside
the
restaurant
and
things
like
that.
There's
really
no
place
in
BC.
B
It
is
actually
published,
but
in
a
very
obscure
place,
very
difficult
to
find
so
we've
actually,
as
a
byproduct
of
doing
this
exercise,
created
a
pretty
useful
facility
for
citizens
to
use
to
find
businesses.
So
we
can
take
a
look
at
them.
This
one
has
a
couple
of
credentials.
They
actually
have
a
corporate
entity
and
then
a
couple
of
names
they
do
business
under
so
they've
got
several
credentials.
B
We
can
see
a
timeline
of
when
they've
got
the
different
credentials,
so
we
can
take
a
look
at
those
in
it
and,
as
the
history
builds
up,
we
haven't
loaded
all
the
history
of
all
BC
companies.
Yet
some
of
that
is
on
paper,
which
is
going
to
be
more
challenging,
but
that's
that's
not
for
us
to
worry
about,
but
we
can
load
them
up.
So
if
we
can
look
at
our
registration,
we
can
see
an
active
credential.
So
this
is
what
a
credential
looks
like
online.
B
Basically,
we
present
it
with
the
key
data
that
a
person
might
be
interested
in
and
then
at
the
bottom
we
can
actually
go
into
the
the
credential
from
an
Indy
hyper
ledger
Indy
perspective.
So
this
is
the
schema
if
you
as
they
call
it
on
the
one
side,
the
populated
data
for
this
particular
version
of
the
credential
and
then
down
below
we
get
some
really
fun
stuff.
This
allows
any
citizen
to
go
and
do
the
cryptography
on
paper
themselves
to
prove
that
this
is
a
proven.
B
Credential
yeah
and
we
say,
verified,
see
the
check
up
there.
That's
the
that's!
The
key
okay
I
think
that's
most
of
what
we
wanted
to
show.
So
the
idea
here
that
we
wanted
to
talk
about
a
little
bit
was
the
title
of
this
was
production.
This
is
a
production
system.
We've
been
live
since
1st
of
September,
basically,
and
actually
the
10th
of
September
there's
a
little
story
there.
B
So
let's
go
back
to
the
home
page,
and
let
me
talk
about
a
couple
of
things
there,
the
current
statistics,
those
are
actual
statistics,
we
actually
recreated
the
credentials
and
loaded
them
this
week.
So
that's
why
2.6
million
were
issued
this
week.
We
can
do
that
the
first
weekend
in
September,
when
we
loaded
it,
it
took
10
days
to
load
the
credentials,
so
that
kind
of
wasn't
too
good.
We
had
Ontario
coming
behind
us
with
about
five
times
as
many
credentials,
so
we
were
kind
of
a
little
nervous.
B
So
we
did
a
couple
of
sprints
two
sprints
to
basically
scale
up
the
capabilities
of
it.
Bc
gov,
which
has
the
developers
exchange,
is
a
pretty
progressive
environment
for
developing
code,
and
so
we've
got
an
open
shift,
kubernetes
based
platform.
So
basically
we
were
able
to
use
the
capabilities
of
that
platform
to
just
spin
up
other
instances
and
be
able
to
scale
up
the
the
speed
of
loading
and
things
like
that.
B
So
we
got
up
to
we're
now
about
12
hours
to
load
the
full
data
set,
so
we're
creating
issuing
and
holding
about
2600
credentials
per
minute,
so
decent
speed,
it's
kind
of
weird,
because
we
are
a
single
holder
for
all
of
these
organizations.
These,
don't
the
organizations
don't
have
their
own
wallet
and
the
first
vision-
and
the
first
thing
that
Indy
wanted
to
support
was
the
idea
of
a
person
having
a
wallet
so
the
database
behind
it
was
not
the
most
scalable
solution
out
of
the
box.
B
B
So
that's
a
contribution
we've
made
to
the
to
the
ecosystem
in
hyper
nature,
Indy
yep,
so
the
next
piece
that
I
want
to
talk
about
where's,
the
search
so
one
of
the
things
you're
seeing
is
this
is
a
BC
site,
but
it's
really
very
generic.
So
what
we've
tried
to
do
is
make
it
completely
agnostic
of
what
the
actual
credentials
that
will
be
loaded
in.
We
do
have
the
concept
that
it's
a
an
organization,
so
we've
got
names.
We
have
addresses
the
concept
of
addresses.
We
have
the
concept
of
credential
types.
B
All
of
this
is
flexible
and
localized
localizable.
Let's
take
a
look
at
the
Ontario
one,
so
the
ontario
or
book
looks
quite
different
from
BCS.
Obviously,
the
search
panel
is
the
same.
They
have
different
things
they
want
to
show
and
what
they
they
don't
want
to
show.
So,
for
example,
in
Ontario
they
didn't
want
to
show
the
structure
of
a
company.
They
actually
have
a
contract
that
charges
for
that,
so
they
weren't
able
to
do
that
through
this,
so
every
entity
and
every
doing
business,
as
is
a
separate
entity
on
this.
B
So
because
we
were
building
with
multiple
jurisdictions
in
mind
right
from
the
start,
we've
we
built
it
to
be
pretty
flexible
and
so
you're
able
to
construct
it
on
your
own.
Have
your
own
skinning
language
support.
There's
multiple
language
support
is
in
there
built
in
already
I
think
those
were
the
main
things
got
the
list.
B
What's
that
yeah,
so
some
of
the
two
more
things
that
I
wanted
to
touch
on
come
to
our
workshop
on
Friday
and
Saturday,
and
what
we're
actually
doing
is
building
out
issuers
and
verifier.
So
this
is
the
org
book
the
central
piece,
but
what
really
is
important
is
there's
an
API
behind
all
this,
that
a
issuer
of
permits
can
use
to
learn
about
the
company
to
fetch
the
credentials
that
are
already
there
and
have
them
proven
and
then
issue
credentials
back
to
the
org
book.
B
So
a
key
part
of
this
is
that
being
easily
able
to
extend
this
to
many
more
permits
and
licensing
providers
could
be
within
the
government
which
we're
working
with
we've
already
had
I
mean
basically
almost
every
project
team.
We
talked
to
says:
oh,
we
can
use
that
so
we're
building
that
out
and
trying
to
make
that
as
easy
as
possible.
So
our
workshop
on
Friday
involves
building
an
issue
or
verifier
and
actually
deploying
it
out.
B
So
you
can
create
your
issue,
your
own
credentials,
the
other
side
of
it
that
we
think
is
going
to
be
really
important
is
well.
This
is
a
bootstrapping
mechanism.
We've
realized
there
can
be
some
life
to
this
in
that
we're
going
to
create
we're
going
to
be
creating
a
pub
sub
subscription
service,
basically,
so
that
a
business
that
gets
a
credential
and
verifies
it
can
subscribe
to
that
credential
in
the
future
and
get
notified
when
it
changes.
B
So
a
big
challenge
in
all
government
organizations
is
this
ability
to
understand
when
things
change,
and
we
think
this
can
be
a
super
light
way
for
a
business
to
get
notified
that
hey
these
two
businesses,
just
merged
they've
started
a
new
entity.
Those
two
entities
no
longer
exist.
They've
been
dissolved
in
this
new
entity
exists.
You
should
know
that
and
so
that
that
webhook
capability
will
just
whatever
you're
subscribed
to
when.
B
The
other
piece
that
we'll
show
is
thing
called
decentralized
flow,
D
flow.
So
do
you
wanna
go
to
that?
Okay,
spicy
wings,
we're
gonna,
look
at
spicy
ways,
so
this
is
our
dev
site
so
where
this
is
just
new
that
we're
playing
with.
So
this
is
a
company.
That's
got
four
different,
four
different
credentials
from
different
organizations.
They've
got
a
registration,
a
PST,
that's
a
tax
number
from
the
province,
a
clearance
letter
for
workman's
compensation
for
a
worker's
insurance
and
a
business
license
from
a
from
an
entity
from
a
municipality.
So.
B
With
Dee
flow,
what
we
can
do
is
basically
what
you're
saying
is:
I
have
a
goal
as
a
businessman.
I
have
a
goal
that
I
want
a
business
license
in
the
city
of
Surrey,
and
it's
going
to
be
for
a
restaurant.
What
have
I
got
to
do
to
accomplish
that?
What
other
things
do
I
need
and
what
we're?
What
we've
built
here
is
a
dynamic
workflow.
That
starts
with
the
one
you
want.
I
want
a
business
license
and
sort
of
says:
oh,
what
are
the
prerequisites
for
getting
a
business
license?
B
Well,
that's
been
encaptured
in
the
proof
requests
that
the
business
requires
before
it
will
issue
you,
the
credential
that
they
have
to
offer.
So
we
can
look
at
that
proof
require
and
then
iteratively
go
back
to
that
proof,
request
and
walk
back
a
step
and
walk
back
a
step
all
the
way
back
until
we
get
to
the
starting
point,
and
now
we
can
display
dynamically.
B
What
does
that
company
need
in
order
to
get
a
business
license
there
their
goal
and
then
what
have
they
already
got
that
allows
them
to
proceed?
So
basically,
this
company,
the
ones
in
blue
they
already
have-
and
they
can
take
a
look
at
it-
the
ones
in
yellow
they're
able
to
acquire
now
because
they
have
all
the
prerequisites
they
haven't
got
it
yet,
but
they
have
the
prerequisites
for
it
and
the
ones
in
red
they
don't
have
the
prerequisites
they're
just
going
to
get
rejected,
so
no
need
to
start
in
on
those
already.
B
So
this
will
the
nice
thing
about
this
is
all
of
these
entities
that
are
issuing
credentials
that
are
issuing
permits
and
licenses.
Don't
have
to
know
the
whole
journey
that
that's
really
hard
to
figure
out.
All
they
have
to
know
is
what
their
prerequisites
are
and
as
soon
as
they
express
those
in
the
form
of
a
proof
request,
we
can
dynamically
walk
that
chain
and
figure
out
what
what
else
they
need.
B
So
this
is
a
tool
we
created
to
be
able
to
browse
the
network,
so
we
can
look
at
in
this
case
the
four
node
network
that
we've
got
running.
We
can
look
at
the
status
of
it.
We
can
do
some
operations
like
look
at
the
Genesis
transaction,
but
we
can
also
dig
in
and
look
at
what
are
the
transactions
that
actually
exist
on
the
ledger
at
this
time.
So
we
can
do
some
searching
for
things
and
find
all
the
ones
that
have
tax
in
the
name.
B
A
A
Right
so
back
to
the
slides,
so
that's
kind
of
a
preview
of
the
site
and
the
ideas
that
have
been
emerging
as
a
result
of
our
work,
but
there's
a
little
bit
more
one
of
the
things
that
we're
trying
to
do
is
to
build.
You
know
this.
We
it's
helpful
for
BC
businesses,
but
BC
businesses
do
business
all
around
the
world
and
we
want.
You
know
our
businesses
to
be
able
to
interact
digitally
with
everybody
else
and
like
Steven
mentioned
it's
not
just
businesses,
but
it's
professionals
and
so
forth,
and
so
on.
A
This
model
could
work
for
professional
engineering
societies,
medical
societies,
other
kinds
of
things
that
have
public
accreditation
that
you
need
to
check
on
this
is
this
is
a
model
that
could
work.
So
we
have
this
idea
where
we
think
you
know
or
book
helps
us
establish
like
our
local
neighborhood.
A
You
know
in
a
you
know:
well
governed
organization
like
the
hyper
ledger:
Linux
Foundation,
we
think,
is
a
good
way
to
go,
and
so
we
think
that
has
over
time
these
neighborhoods,
as
they
grow,
hopefully
well
beacon,
will
create
what
we
call
the
verifiable
organization
Network.
So
this
is
sort
of
a
concept
where,
if
you
can
use
these
kinds
of
tools-
and
it
doesn't
have
to
be
hyper
ledger
indie,
it
could
be
any
system
that
is
sort
of
decentralized
identifier,
verifiable
credential,
compliant
you'll.
A
Be
able
to
exchange
verifiable
data
amongst
businesses,
and
that
is
really
what
we
want
to
be
able
to
do.
It's
nice
that
they
could
come
and
do
business
with
us
like
get
the
things
they
need,
but
what's
really
more
important
is
it
that
they
transact
amongst
themselves,
that's
what
the
economy
lives.
So
that's
the
idea
of
the
verifiable
organisation
network
and
the
coming
code
that
we'll
call
a
hyper
ledger,
indie
catalyst.
So
that
is
our
talk
for
now.
A
As
I
says,
Steven
mentioned
we're
having
a
workshop,
Friday
and
Saturday
morning
and
Ian
and
Steven
and
I'll
do
my
best
to
help
will
walk
you
through
actually
creating
an
issue,
we're
creating
schemas
and
and
and
doing
your
own
decentralized
workflow
example.
So
we're
happy
to
take
questions
if
there
are
any
yes.
A
C
A
A
B
A
D
Promise
no
biometrics
No,
so
you
did
mention
the
verifiable
claim
and
you
you
implied
standards
and
I
just
want
to
confirm.
You
know
with
the
audience
here,
because
we
had
a
side
discussion,
so
it's
w3c,
compliant
verifiable
claims
and
then
and
so
I.
Don't
want
to
ask
about
the
the
other
adjuncts
that
the
the
registrar
and
the
verifier,
because
you
talk
about
those
concepts
but
I'm,
trying
to
understand
like
what
standards
you
use
or
what
you're
developing
on
your
own
and
what
standards
apply.
A
So
right
now
it's
hyper
ledger,
indie
version
of
things,
but
as
they
progress,
they'll
they'll
create
the
ID,
doc
specs
and
the
end
verifiable
credential
base.
But
that's
still
emerging
right
in
terms
of
how,
like
the
agents,
communicate,
we're
actually
contributing
quite
a
bit
to
sort
of
this
agent
agent
protocol
and
that's
being
done
in
the
open
as
well.
Right
now
in
this
sort
of
hyper
ledger:
indie
working
groups,
but
we
go.
A
We
like
we
want
interoperability,
so
we'd
like
our
citizens,
to
have
a
choice,
so
they
could
use
a
D,
ID
method
of
their
choice.
They
could
use
software
of
their
choice
when
it
gets
to
personal
data
or
this
data.
We
think,
if
that's
where
the
marketplace
will
provide
options
for
citizens
and
businesses
like
the
holder
software,
so
whatever
standards
emerge,
we
would
want
to
support
those
and
we're
helping
shape
some
of
those
as
well.
So.
B
One
of
the
things
we
thought
about
as
John
alluded
to
early
in
the
talk
was:
oh
we're.
Gonna
build
this
thing
in
our
organizations.
They're
gonna
use
our
agent
and
they're
gonna
talk
to
our
issuers
and
verifiers
and
we're
gonna
build
all
that
stuff,
and
then
we
realize
no.
This
is
not
what
we
should
be
doing.
We
shouldn't
be
in
the
business
of
doing
that.
We
need
to
be
in
the
business
of
issuing
credentials,
so
we
have
to
build
software
for
that.
B
We
need
to
make
do
it
in
a
way
that
allows
them
to
change
as
little
as
they
need
to.
We
don't
want
them
to
have
to
read
recreate
their
world.
We
want
them
to
just
be
an
adjunct
on
just
like
they
use
a
printer
to
print
the
verified,
credential,
the
permit
or
the
license,
so
they
can
hang
it
on
the
wall.
We
just
want
them
to
stamp
out
a
digital
version
of
that
that's
signed,
cryptographically
right
and.
A
One
of
the
things
I
say
about
that
is
like
so
this
piece
of
software
that
we've
been
we
sort
of.
We
take
it
for
granted
now,
but
everything
we've
done
is
in
the
open
every
line
of
code,
every
presentation,
every
ticket-
it's
all
in
github,
so
it's
all
patchy
and,
as
I
mentioned,
we're
contributing
to
the
hyper
ledger
thing,
but
sort
of
a
line
I
say
is
like.
A
If
your
system
can
produce
a
CSV
of
your
permit
or
license
data,
then
you're
in
our
box,
we'll
take
care
of
the
rest
and
you'll
learn
on
the
workshop
that
it's
just
an
hour
to
to
configure
that
thing
to
make
it
work
for
you
and
and
that's
how
much
work
it
takes
kind
of
thing.
So
it's
we're
trying
to
make
it
as
easy
as
possible
because
we're
from
government
we
know
like
it's
basically
impossible
to
do
IT
things
so
we
wanted
to,
like
you
know,
make
that
as
simple
as
possible
answer
your
question.
E
That
sort
of
goes
closely
to
the
question
I
was
going
to
ask,
which
is
one
of
the
points
of
blockchain,
is
usually
to
have
nodes
under
control
of
multiple
entities.
Where
are
the
actual
nodes
right
now
from
what
I
understand
they're
all
under
the
control
of
the
BC
government?
So
could
there
be
like
variances
like
an
NGO
holding
onto
one
of
the
nodes,
yeah.
A
The
production,
the
production
systems
using
the
sovereign
network
to
store
the
D
ID,
so
there's
a
D
ID
and
a
schema
and
a
clerk
read
that
you
know
credential
definition
and
yeah
on
there.
But
again
in
theory
that
could
be
another
D
ID
Network,
it's
just
there
aren't
any
other
t,
ID
networks.
There.
B
Node,
but
we're
not
running
the
network,
the
the
thing
you
remember
with
verifiable
credentials
is
they
don't
go
on
the
ledger?
So
none
of
the
data
about
the
organization's
or
about
individuals
goes
on
the
ledger.
It
all
goes
into
a
wallet.
The
weird
thing
we
are
doing
is:
we've
got
this
community
wallet
concept,
but
once
people
have
their
own
wallet
we'll
be
issuing
to
their
wallet
directly,
we
won't.
D
A
Always
looking
we're
glad,
we
are
doing
some
collaboration
with
some
folks
from
spark
Telecom
New
Zealand
that
have
a
pretty
nice
implementation
and
we're
using
that
as
an
opportunity
to
develop
the
early
version
of
the
agent
agent
protocol.
That's
generalized
that
were,
we
would
be
happy
to
hear
of
others.
We've.
B
F
A
So
it's
a
it's
a
schema
that
we
co-created
with
Canada
and
Ontario,
but
we
also
looked
at
like
standards
in
Canada
that
have
evolved
like
I've,
been
in
this
business.
For
very
it's
not
an
ISO.
No,
no!
No!
There
isn't
such
a
thing
in
the
world
for
that
for
businesses
other
than
like,
maybe
schema.org,
but
it's
really
not
sufficient
yeah.
A
B
Just
do
our
we
had
a
first,
we
did
one
Ontario
did
one
and
we
went
wait.
This
isn't
gonna
work.
We
don't
want
that,
we're
both
Canadian
entities.
We
should
be
able
to
figure
that
out
and
that
worked
pretty
well
and
then
the
other
side
of
it
was
once
we
got
into
things
like
the
the
doing
business
as
well.
That's
totally
uncharted
territory,
no,
not
really
yeah
been
done,
and
we
came
up
with
something.
Ontario
came
up
with
something
even
better
and
and
we
balance
back
and
forth
to
figure
out
what
a
real
it's.
B
It
point
both
ways:
the
interesting
thing
there.
The
thought
process
was
a
lot
around.
We
originally
started.
Oh
you
know.
How
is
the
or
book
gonna
show
this
and
all
that,
then
we
realized.
No,
that's,
not
the
right
thinking.
What
the
thinking
is
is
what
is
the
business
gonna
want
to
do
with
this?
What
do
they
have
to
prove
to
somebody
else,
and
that's
how
you
look
at
how
how
to
build
a
credential?
Is
you
stick
it
in
the
wallet
of
a
business
in
this
case
or
a
person
and
figure
out?
B
A
C
A
Credentials
are
the
nodes,
and
this
is
a
credential
that
demonstrates
a
linkage
between
the
nodes
of
a
knowning
doing
businesses
name,
but
that
that
those
labels
could
be
changed
to
is
a
director
or
as
a
beneficiary
or
any
kind
of
relationship
can
be
modeled.
This
way
between
two
things,
and
so
that
generalizes
the
model
to
basically
whatever
you
want,
which
also
gives
it
interesting
properties
in
terms
of
visualization
and
analysis
and
relationship
recommendation
engines
and
that
kind
of
stuff.
So
it
was
fun.
A
We're
gonna
be
talking
with
man
Revere,
you
know
that's
what
an
interesting
thing
is
that
you
know
like.
If
you
look
at
you
know,
College
of
Physicians
and
Surgeons
and
other
kind
of
public
statements.
My
you
know,
engineering
societies,
they
publish
these
things
already,
so
they
could
have
a
version
of
this
and
then
that
just
becomes
part
of
the
overall
ecosystem,
so
that
you
can,
for
example,
have
a
prescription
issued
by
a
doctor
to
patient
that
patient
brings
the
prescription
to
a
pharmacy.
A
The
pharmacy
asks
proof,
but
at
the
same
time
can
look
at
that
credential
say:
oh
I'm
gonna
look
up
that
doctor
in
this
in
the
public.
You
know
verify
in
public
doc,
hub
or
whatever
the
heck
they
call
it
and-
and
they
can
subscribe
to
those
things
too,
so
they
can
always
know
if
that
doctor
currently
licensed.
Maybe
that
doctor
has
a
restriction
on
the
kinds
of
things
they
can
prescribe.
So
I
think
it's
like
it's
a
it's
complementary
to
the
peer-to-peer
transaction.
A
A
Interesting
one
we're
looking
at
is
evident
evidence,
so
another
function
and
the
provincial
government
is
mining
inspections.
Things
like
this,
so
inspectors
go
out
into
the
field
out
like
offline
and
they
are
recording
videos
taking
pictures,
making,
notes
and
so
forth,
and
they
would
like
to
be
able
to
be
used
data
that
they
gather
five,
you
ten
years
from
now
and
be
able
to
answer
the
question
definitively.
It
was
this
person
using
this
device
on
this
place
at
this
time,
and
it
data
was
unaltered.
Well,
that's
a
credential.
A
You
could
have
their
phone
issue
a
credential
to
an
internal
hub
of
like
this,
and
you
know
ten
years
from
now,
when
there's
a
court
case,
they
can
use
that
you
can
just
ask
for
a
proof
from
it
and
at
that
point
we
know
that
it's
unaltered
and
and
we
know
who
it
was,
and
we
know
what
version
it
was
and
what
chunk
of
binary
data
was
hashed
in
there.
So
we
had
to
experiment
with
that.
That
could
be
quite
an
interesting
matter.