►
From YouTube: True Tickets - Creating The Future Of Ticketing
Description
True Tickets is a client first start-up keenly focused on providing digital customizable rights management for contactless digital tickets to the ticketing issuer.
Guest Presenters: Matt Zarracina, co-founder and CEO, True Tickets
What: Enabled by IBM Blockchain, True Tickets is creating the future of ticketing.
When: Thursday Aug 11, 2022
The links shared during presentation:
True Tickets Matt Zarracina CEO with IBM's blockchain guru Jerry Cuomo:
https://listen.casted.us/public/95/Think-Blockchain-3de6554b/fd40527c
Matt Zarracina opines about NFT's and Ticketing:
https://matthew-zarracina.medium.com/nfts-shouldnt-be-tickets-and-here-s-why-5a63b7d0f00f
----
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License
Creative Commons Attribution license (reuse allowed)
A
There
we
go
welcome
all
this
is
Brett
Russell,
with
the
the
co-chair
of
the
hyperledger
media
and
entertainment
special
interest
group,
and
today
we
have
Matt
saracina,
CEO
and
co-founder
of
true
tickets,
which
is
a
company
that
is
a
revolutionizing
the
ticket
industry
and
using
in
some
cases
a
blockchain
applications.
The
IBM
blockchain
I
did
have
the
I
have
a
look
at
or
listen
to
the
interview
with
you
Matt
and
Jerry
Cuomo,
and
that
was
really
good.
A
It
was
really
you
know:
I
I,
I,
don't
know.
Jerry
I've
been
to
a
few
events
and
I
think
I
met
him,
but
we're
not
the
best
of
buddies,
but
he's
a
he's.
A
good
podcaster
guy
I
thought
you
know,
he's
a
he's,
a
brilliant
technician,
but
he's
a
he
was
a
good
podcast
and
I'll
actually
put
the
link
up
in
the
I'll,
put
the
link
up
for
anyone,
then
that
will
be
in
the
in
the
in
the
recording
here.
So
sorry,
just
let
me
yeah
I.
A
Well,
Lisa
I
I'm
sure
that
he
was
who
played
some
role
in
in
helping
you
guys
get
pulled
together.
The
IBM
side
of
the
blockchain
thing
and
that's
that's
a
phenomenal
asset
in
him.
So
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
you
about
your
team
about
true
tickets,
where
you're
going
and
you
have
the
floor,
go
ahead.
Matt.
Thank
you.
B
A
B
Yeah,
true
tickets,
you
know
what
we
really
are,
as
it
says,
it's
there
right
we're
a
provider
of
trusted
access
for
live
experiences
and
what
that
means
it
may
be.
A
more
technical
sense
is
where
a
B2B
Enterprise,
SAS
infrastructure
solution
for
ticketing,
we're
we're
built
to
work
with
any
ticketing
system.
B
We're
built
to
work
with
any
Marketplace
and
I'd
say
the
best
analogy
for
what
we
are
trying
to
do
and
why
it's
Unique
is,
if
anybody's
familiar
with
Airline
ticketing,
there's
a
company
called
saber
right
and
saber
is
the
underlying
infrastructure
that
essentially
facilitates
the
vast
majority
of
Airline
ticketing,
especially
here
in
the
US,
and
something
like
that
doesn't
exist
in
live
event.
Ticketing
right,
which
is
you
know
by
not
having
this
underlying
infrastructure
that
creates
transparency
and
efficiency.
B
You
get
all
sorts
of
issues
and
that's
essentially
what
we
do
and
that's
essentially
what
we're
trying
to
be
and
trying
to
solve
for
so
today,
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
team.
I'll
talk
about
ticketing,
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
blockchain
and
white
fabric,
but
most
of
what
I'll
talk
about
is
just
on
our
business.
In
the
problem
we're
solving
right,
so
here's
our
here's,
our
team,
so
true
tickets
was
co-founded
by
myself
Steve
by
me
and
my
co-founder
Steve
Steven
I've
known
each
other.
For
about
20
years
we
used
to.
B
We
were
both
Navy
Pilots.
Together
we
met
in
Flight
School.
We
reconnected
in
January
of
2017.
I,
just
taken
a
corporate
Innovation
job
for
French
Aerospace
defense
company
called
Talus,
where
I
was
their
director
of
innovation.
I
led
their
blockchain
project.
I
love
their
autonomous
vehicle
project
did
a
couple
other
things:
Steve
was
actually
at
the
Pentagon
working
on
blockchain
at
the
Pentagon
and
we
connected.
B
We
had
tried
to
do
some
things
kind
of
in
the
Aerospace
defense
space,
but
he
you
it's
a
kind
of
spring
summer
of
2017
had
written
a
white
paper
on
ticketing,
and
it
reminded
me
of
a
conversation
I
had
with
an
expert
at
MIT
who's,
an
advisor
to
our
company.
We
had
had
a
conversation
in
January
at
MIT,
on
just
blockchain
and
potential
use
cases,
and
for
a
minute
we
kind
of
talked
about
ticketing,
and
we
thought
that
was
a
great
use
case.
B
My
CTO
Andrew
he
and
I
actually
worked
together
at
Talus
and
what
makes
Andrew
unique
is
he
has
experience
in
building
and
delivering
distributed
systems
and
then
Ken
so
I
had
a
sales
cat.
Has
all
you
know
over
30
years
in
ticketing,
what
makes
Ken
very
unique?
Those
there's
really
only
been
one
other
blockchain
enabled
ticketing
company
for
all
intents
and
purposes
that
that's
had
a
lot
of
activity
or
I'd
say
you
could
say
it's
the
only
one
that's
been
acquired
and
that
was
upgraded.
They're,
an
ethereum
based
firm.
B
B
I
was
introduced
to
him
by
one
of
our
investors
and
he
decided
to
join
us.
So
when
you
look
across
the
board,
I'd
like
to
say
from
a
just
a
business,
a
technology
in
an
industry
standpoint,
we
all
have
some
level
of
experience
with
with
blockchain
and
ticketing
and
really
trying
to
solve
real
world
problems.
B
A
little
bit
about
me.
You
know
I,
my
journey
has
been
an
interesting
one.
I
started
out
as
a
Navy
pilot
and
then
I
taught
at
Cornell
for
a
bit,
then
I
went
to
Deloitte,
where
I
worked
in
their
m
a
practice
and
then
went
to
Dallas
where
I
worked
in
corporate
Innovation
and
and
really
my
my
focus
in
corporate
Innovation
was
on
finding
my
next
opportunity.
So
I.
B
B
It's
always
important
to
really
understand
the
history
right,
and
maybe
we
think
about
ticketing
today
as
like
a
fairly
static
industry,
but
it's
actually
it's
actually
quite
Dynamic,
and
the
the
world
of
ticketing
has
always
struggled
with
this
idea
of
of
control
and
transparency
with
distribution
right.
They
want
to
get
as
many
eyes
or
as
many
Hands-On
tickets
as
possible
to
drive
attendance
control
and
transparency
can
mitigate
that
right.
So
we
go
back
to
the
1970s,
you
know
the
evolution.
There
was
just
moving
away
from
Regional
box
offices.
B
Again
tickets
used
to
be
sold,
the
box
office
was
the
place
to
get
the
ticket
tickets
were
in
ticket
racks.
That's
how
people
want
tickets
and
then
in
the
80s
you
started
to
see
computerized
ticketing
and
in
many
ways
like
this,
was
actually
led
by
IBM.
Oddly
enough,
you
know
big
mainframes,
they
were,
they
were
doing
ticketing.
You
start
to
see.
B
Ticketmaster
has
actually
found
it
around
this
time
and
then
in
the
90s
is
the
big
there's,
the
evolution
to
the
web
right
and
Ken
likes
to
say
he
was
at
Ticketmaster
when
they
they
sold
their
first
ticket
on
the
web
right
and
they
were
high-fiving
and
they
thought
wow.
This
would
be
great
if
you
know,
maybe
one
or
two
or
three
percent
of
our
sales
come
through
this
new
Web
Channel
and
obviously
you
know
they
underestimated
that
a
little
bit
as
you
move
into
the
2000s.
You
start
to
see.
B
You
know
you
know
with
the
rise
of
the
web
and
marketplaces,
obviously
marketplaces
and
fan
club,
so
new
ways
to
distribute
tickets
new
ways
to
get
reach
new
ways
to
monetize
new
revenue
streams.
This
is
where
you
see
you
know
the
stubhubs
of
the
world
to
an
extent
like
Seiki
condemnity
seats
really
really
start
to
emphasize.
You
know
and
grow
in
the
market
and
in
the
2010s
and
teens.
B
B
Ledger
technology
or
distributed
system
really
start
to
add
value
to
ticketing
right
now,
so
now
you've
got
kind
of
ticketing,
moving
full
digital
and
there's
obviously
still
issues
with
it
right
and
and
when
you
think
about
the
problem
you're
solving,
it
really
helps
to
understand
the
life
cycle
right
so
I
know
this
is
a
little
bit
hard
to
see
with
the
arrows,
but
all
tickets
start
with
the
ticket
issuer
right.
So
you've
got
this
issue
or
this
live
event.
Venue
that
could
be
theater
sports
music.
B
What
have
you
and
their
job
is
to
disseminate
the
tickets
right
so
that
these
tickets
can
access
their
IP,
which
is
the
content
they
create
and
what
makes
ticketing
challenging
right.
Is
those
tickets
actually
can
go
through
multiple
channels
to
ultimately
end
up
at
the
ticket
buyer.
So
one
the
live
event.
Venue
could
be
selling
directly
to
the
ticket
buyer.
B
Think
about
you
know
when
I
grew
up
in
Minneapolis,
I
went
to
First
Ave
and
I
would
buy
tickets
directly
from
First,
Ave
and
I
would
go
so
that's
the
case
of
the
ticket
buyer
directly
buying
directly
from
the
venue.
Then
there's
these
authorized
sellers.
So
some
venues
will
leverage
marketplaces
or
other
distribution
channels
in
an
authorized
way
to
sell
tickets
right.
So
maybe
they
have
a
deal
with
a
channel
and
that
channel
then
you
know,
for
example,
like
a
gold
star
in
the
theater
space
could
sell
tickets
on
behalf
of
a
venue
right.
B
So
this
is
an
authorized
seller
and
then
there's
these
resellers
right,
which
could
be
Brokers
scalpers
anyone
who's
slipping
a
ticket.
You
know
that's
kind
of
that
that
third
one
here
and
there's
now
creates
this
Matrix
right
of
you
know:
tickets
getting
to
the
ticket
buyer.
Maybe
it
goes
from
the
venue
to
the
author,
I
sell
it
to
the
to
the
to
the
actual
kind
of
buyer
or
attendee,
and
then
it
goes
or
it
goes
authorized.
B
There
is
key
and,
like
I
said
you
know,
we
focus
a
lot
less
on
the
tech
and
we've
focused
more
on
the
problem,
we're
solving.
So
when
it
pertains
to
ticketing.
What
are
the
problems?
Well,
I
mean
one
is
control
right,
so
the
minute
the
minute
kind
of
that
ticket
issuer
sells
that
ticket
and
it
leaves
their
hands.
You
know,
they've
lost
the
ability
to
to
have
control
over
right.
It
means,
if
it
can
be
duplicating
South,
can
be
manipulated.
The
other
one
is
identity
and
I
think
this
is
kind
of
a
shocking
stat
right.
B
B
That's
15,
you
know
1.5
million
people,
they
don't
know
right
and
and
that
that
identity
is
a
huge
issue
and
when
we
think
about
you
know
the
attention
economy,
right,
Netflix
and
Amazon
and
Hulu
and
Google
and
Facebook.
They
know
90
to
99
of
the
consumers
of
their
servants
and
if
you're
you're
a
live
event,
then
you
only
know
25
to
40
of
the
people
consuming
your
service
you're
at
a
disadvantage,
because
you
can't
Market,
you
can't
carry
your
content
or
you
can't.
B
You
can't
really
curate
it
as
well
or
Market
it
as
well
as
those
other
other
organizations
in
the
attention
economy,
the
last
one's
Integrity
right.
So
everyone
we've
all
been
there.
You
know
we're
looking.
We
want
to
go
to
an
event.
It's
a
high
profile
event:
we're
buying
a
ticket,
we're
spending
a
lot
of
money
and
we're
just
kind
of
uneasy
or
we're
queasy
or
nauseous,
that
oh
man,
maybe
this
ticket
won't
work
right,
so
you're
always
kind
of
concerned
about
it.
B
So
these
are
the
key
problems
in
ticketing
and
when
you
think
about
how
you
solve
it,
I
mean
it's.
Obviously
you
know
you
want
to
make
sure,
there's
control
right,
so
making
sure
those
tickets
can't
be
duplicated
or
manipulated.
You
want
to
make
sure
there's,
there's
identity
right,
a
vet
organizer
should
know
who's
coming
to
their
actual
shows,
and
the
third
is
verifiability
right,
so
you
want
Integrity
of
tickets,
and-
and
this
is
really
how
we
approach
solving
ticking.
B
So
the
thought
that
people
like
you
know
us
and
people
like
me-
and
companies
like
us,
Envision
exploring,
is
well
if
it's
a
Distributive
problem,
distributive
problems
are
best
solved
by
distributed
Solutions
an
analogy
to
use
is
yeah
I
used
to
fly
the
the
sh60
Bravo
right,
so
it
was
a
Blackhawk,
but
it
was
retrofitted
to
hunt
submarines.
But
anybody
who
knows,
if
you're
in
kind
of
the
Warfare
Community
the
best
way
to
hunt
something
is
to
be
in
the
medium
right.
So
we
were
always
at
a
disadvantage.
B
The
best
way
to
hunt
an
enemy
submarine
is
with
another
submarines,
someone's
that's
in
the
medium
right
same
thing:
with
aircraft
like
the
best
way
to
fight
an
aircraft
is
usually
with
another
aircraft,
and
so
in
this
instance,
when
you,
when
you
think
about
it,
like
a
distributed,
technology,
should
theoretically
be
able
to
solve
a
distributed
problem.
That's
why
people
get
excited
about
blockchain
right,
and
we
all
know
what
the
issues
are
which
talked
about.
You
know
attendance.
We
talked
about
knowledge.
The
other
thing,
too,
is
really
interesting.
B
Is
is
understanding
that
tickets
again
are
not
assets,
they're,
revocable
licenses,
and
so
when
you
were,
if
you
had
a
card
stock
to
get
back
in
the
day
it
was
you
know
there
was
all
this
verbiage,
this
fine
print
on
the
back,
and
you
never
really
read
it.
Well,
those
are
the
terms
and
conditions
to
fulfill
that
license
right.
So
it's
not
an
asset.
B
It's
not
a
thing
like
you
that
you
own,
like
a
house
or
a
car,
and
so
there
can
be
different
licensing
restrictions
and
teams,
and
leagues
and
venues
want
to
enforce
those
restrictions
and
for
the
most
part
it
was
really
challenging
to
enforce
them.
But
now,
as
ticketing
moves
digital,
it
becomes
much
much
easier
to
enforce
some
of
those
restrictions
and
you
can
automate
that
and
it
makes
it
a
lot
easier.
B
The
other
thing,
too,
is
when
you
think
about
it
from
a
business
standpoint,
there's
a
ton
of
money,
kind
of
left
on
the
table
via
red
seeking
Behavior
right.
So
when
you
think
of
value
of
Partnerships,
if,
if
I'm
a
ticket
issuer,
if
I'm,
if
I'm,
Major,
League
Baseball
or
if
I'm,
the
NFL
and
I
have
you
know,
Major
League
Baseball
does
70
million
tickets
a
year
if
I
want
to
strike
a
deal
with
a
Marketplace
and
make
them
my
exclusive
Marketplace
to
have
maximum
value.
B
I
need
to
make
sure
I
I
can
ensure
there's
minimum
leakage
right.
So
today
there's
a
lot
of
leakage,
so
the
value
of
their
Partnerships
goes
down.
If
I
can
have
a
technology
that
allows
me
to
control
the
channels
my
tickets
are
or
access
via,
as
well
as
who
my
channel
partners
are
and
the
controls
around
them.
I
actually
increase
the
value
of
those
Partnerships
right.
B
So
it
means
that
I
can
drive
more
Revenue
to
my
organization
because
there's
less
leakage,
and
so
that
again,
that's
why
this
whole
kind
of
chain
of
custody
right
you
bring
identity,
you
bring
accountability
to
ticketing
and
you
go
from
a
situation
where
the
live
event.
Venue
is
not
the
data
owner
right
to
work
to
one
where
they
are,
or
at
least
they're
they're.
They
have
visibility
into
all
the
data
really
time.
That's
a
game.
Changer
right
that
changes.
B
Everything
and
I
was
actually
having
a
conversation
with
an
NBA
team
owner
yesterday,
and
we
were
talking
about
the
relationship
they
have
with
their
major
ticketing
system,
which
everybody
knows,
but
for
them
the
the
value
proposition
or
the
the
the
equation.
They're
trying
to
balance
is
my.
You
know,
I
trade,
my
data.
They
give
me
cash
up
front
right.
B
Obviously
the
ticketing
system
believes
the
the
value
of
those
tickets
and
the
data
is
worth
more
than
two
million
dollars,
and
so,
if
you
can
do
things
as
a
as
a
team
as
a
league
as
a
ticket
issuer
to
drive
up
the
value
either
of
that
that
inventory
or
that
data
right.
So
when
you
have
blockchain,
you
get
not
only
more
data,
but
you
get
more
consistent,
more
standard,
more
accurate
data.
B
That
actually
means
the
value
of
that
data
goes
up,
which
means,
if
you
want
to
make
a
cash
trade,
you
can
drive
up
more
value
right.
So
it's
all
about
it's
all
about
creating
value
for
the
issuer
of
the
ticket.
So
why
fabric
right
I
mean
there's,
there's
a
ton
of
people
doing
tokens
and
ticketing,
and
you
know
icos
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff.
B
B
If
you
can't
meet
that
minimum,
it's
pretty
challenging
to
to
sell
yourself
as
a
solution
to
anyone
in
in
the
marketplace.
The
second
one
is
latency,
one
of
the
things
again
sorry
and
on
transactions
per
second,
you
can
architect
Fabric
in
a
way
to
give
you
several
thousand
transactions
per
second
and
again
it's
because
it's
Enterprise
to
enterprise
Enterprise
right.
B
You
probably
only
have
a
handful
of
nodes
or
participants
in
your
broader
system,
you're
not
dealing
with
thousands
upon
thousands
of
nodes
and
systems
right
I
mean,
if
you
think
about
the
US,
there's,
essentially
five
major
major
ticketing
systems,
right,
there's,
Ticketmaster,
there's
tickets.com,
see
geek
access
and
then
tessatura.
You
know
that's
in
sports
right
or
sorry.
Tester
is
not
sports,
but
there's
only
a
kind
of
a
half
dozen
or
so
particular
systems.
And
then,
when
you
think
marketplaces
again,
it's
about
a
half
dozen
you've
got
StubHub
c
key
can
plus
Vivid
Seats.
B
You
know
tick
pick
game
time,
there's
not
thousands
right
and
even
though
ticketing
feels
like
a
peer-to-peer
transaction.
It's
really
not.
You
need
that
Marketplace
to
list
that
ticket
okay.
Without
that
Marketplace,
it
makes
it
really
hard
to
find
buyers
right.
So
there's
always
this
kind
of
push
and
pull
between
you
know.
Is
it
really
peer-to-peer?
Is
it
B2B?
We
see
it
as
B2B
and
so
fabric
does
really
well
is
handle
the
transaction
problem?
Second,
one
is
latency
how
quickly
you
kind
of
you
flow
through
those
transactions
and
in
ticketing.
B
Again
this
needs
to
be
near
milliseconds,
and
if
you
have
you
know,
if
you're,
if
your
latency,
some
of
the
faster
ones
on
the
the
more
tokenized
platforms,
are
five
seconds,
I
think
I
think
algorand
was
getting
to
two
and
a
half
seconds.
That's
still
not
fast
enough
in
that
think
about.
If
you've
got
I
mean,
we've
got
a
client
Boston
Symphony.
B
They
do
outdoor
concerts
to
Tanglewood
they're,
doing
fifteen
thousand
twenty
thousand
people
they've
got
four
Gates
yeah
I
mean
it
even
at
two
and
a
half
seconds
per
kind
of
you
know:
transaction
processing,
transaction
being
processed.
It's
just
not
fast
enough
right,
so
you
need
to
be
able
to
go
fast
and
that's
one
of
the
things
that
fabric
fabric
allows
for
it
is
very
well
and
the
third
one
is
finality
anything
where
you're
waiting,
where
there's
a
confirmation
or
a
wait
time
again.
That
is
any
measurable
length
of
time.
B
Is
a
challenge
in
ticketing?
Take
not
that
you
would
use
a
a
proof
of
work
solution,
but
like
Bitcoin
right,
it's
it's
proof
of
work.
Finality
confirmation
is
an
hour
what
happens
if,
after
an
hour
or
someone
scans
a
ticket,
and
then
you
you
find
out
that
that
transaction
was
invalid,
they
shouldn't
have
been
in
there.
You
go
pull
them
out
of
the
seat,
you
know,
and
so
in
thinking
through
and
understanding
your
business
use
case
really
dry
starts
to
drive
your
your
your
protocol
constraints,
there's.
B
Actually
not
many
protocols
that
can
handle
the
technical
requirements,
ticketing
and
the
last
one
is
is
is
is
is
interesting
to
ticketing
too,
if
you,
if
you
look
at
at
fabric,
what
it
does
really
well
is
it's
optimal
for
analyzing
or
for
handling
up
it's
optimal
for
handling
generalized
data
and
data
objects.
That's
important
because
when
you
look
at
the
vast
majority
of
systems
and
marketplaces
out
there,
a
ticket
is
a
data,
object
and
essentially
generalized
data.
B
It's
not
a
token
and
and
if
you're
going
to
be
something
that
plugs
into
other
systems,
to
make
them
more
efficient,
you
really
need
to
be
be
able
to
to
align
with
their
data
architecture,
data
model
and
data
mapping
and,
if
you're,
going
to
tokenize
that
just
makes
things
harder.
Now,
if
you
are
a
believer
that
there
are
new
marketplaces,
new
systems
that
are
going
to
completely
replace
the
existing
systems
and
infrastructure,
then
you,
you
may
think
differently
than
I
do
on
this
one.
B
B
That
said
one
thing
that
one
benefit
of
covid
was:
you
saw
a
lot
more
digital
transformation
or
openness
to
doing
things
digitally.
You
know
that
said.
They're
still,
you
know
they
still
need
to
make
sure
that
the
ticketing
works
well
and
one
of
the
benefits
for
True
tickets
is
that
we've
built
a
pretty
robust
solution
that
our
clients
feel
comfortable
using
and
and
have
been
using
it
at
scale.
B
So
our
solution,
our
approach
again,
software
is
a
solution
to
a
problem,
we're
not
trying
to
fit
a
technology,
we're
trying
to
be
very
smart
about
how
we
solve
problems
for
our
customers.
You
know
the
problems
in
ticketing.
We
talked
about
them
a
little
bit,
Yeah
your
tickets
as
duplicable
assets,
so
you
you've
got
kind
of
one
paper
ticket.
You
can
make
100
copies
and
then
it's
a
race
condition.
B
Ticketing
systems
do
lag
behind
other
Industries
and
they
lag
behind
because
again
they're
these
big
large,
complex
Solutions,
some
of
them
having
you
know,
code
that
goes
back
decades
right
to
the
70s.
Even
the
newest
code
bases
go
back,
90s,
early,
2000s
and
so
you're
talking
at
best
the
you
most
of
them
are
probably
20
year
old
code
bases,
so
they're
they're
sub-optimal,
but
they
work
right
and
they've
been
built
on
top
of
so
it
makes
it
very
challenging
for
for
them
to
evolve.
B
Ticketing
is
a
Distributive
problem
right,
so
you've
got
multiple
entities,
essentially
handling
the
same
data
and
as
we
think
about
the
ticket
life
cycle,
what
we
think
we
can
do
is
listed
on
the
right
right.
So
we
can
provide
the
event.
You
know
the
live
event
venue.
You
know,
information
regarding
who
the
attendee
is,
or
at
least
one
degree
of
separation.
We
can
provide
them
controls.
We
can
provide
them
potential,
remuneration,
opportunities
and
obviously
the
the
direct
connection
right
when
you're
the
live
event
venue.
B
You
want
to
have
that
direct
relationship
that
direct
connection
with
the
people
who
are
consuming
your
service.
Those
are
the
people
who,
for
whatever
reason,
maybe
you
didn't
know
them
right
away,
but
then
they're
they're
coming
in
your
door,
but
you
want
to
make
sure
you
connect
with
them
throughout,
because
that's
how
you
can
minimize
any
sort
of
Arbitrage
or
Revenue
loss
throughout
the
life
cycle
and
there's
two
ways
to
think
about
it.
So
we
we
had
a
major
announcement
yesterday,
so
we
announced
the
release
of
of
rules-based
ticket
sharing.
B
You're
Brett
you
talked
about
it.
I
did
a
podcast
with
Jared
Cuomo
last
week.
I
actually
did
one
with
Dave
Wakeman
who's,
a
a
ticketing
consultant,
ticketing,
expert
and
I
was
released
yesterday.
So
we
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
it.
But
it's
this
idea
to
start
the
initial
rules
that
our
venue,
clients
can
Implement
around
tickets.
Are
you
know,
does
the
original
purchaser
of
the
ticket
have
to
go
right?
So
let's
say
Brett
buys
four
tickets.
B
B
So
if
Brett
shares
a
ticket
with
me,
it
either
sits
with
me
and
can't
go
anywhere
other
than
back
to
Brett
or
if
it
can
be
reshared
I
could
I
could
share
with
Encore,
and
then
it
could
go
on
and
on
and
on
and
that's
what
we
announced
yesterday.
It's
we're
pretty
pleased
with
it
and
and
there
the
reason
we're
pleased
with
it
is
not
because
that
is
the
end-all
be-all.
It's
really
about
what
it
portends
for
the
future
right,
which
is
this
idea
of
controllable
resale
right.
B
So
if
I
can,
if
I
can
put
rules
or
if
I
can
Implement
and
enforce
rules
around
the
sharing
of
the
ticket,
I
can
theoretically
do
the
same
for
resale
right.
So
what
channels
are
those
tickets
going
on
right?
So
if
I'm
Boston
Symphony
do
I
want
to
allow
sea
keep
to
set,
allow
my
tickets
to
be
listed
on
C,
geek
or
not
or
TM
plus,
maybe
maybe
not
do
I
want
to
strike
a
deal
there.
What
are
the
rules
around
the
resale
of
those
tickets
right?
B
So
if
it's
really
changing
ownership
right,
so
Brad's
reselling
tickets?
What
are
the
rules
around
the
transfer
of
that
ownership?
So,
if
I
buy
that
ticket?
What
needs
to
happen
right?
This
could
be
price
floors,
price
ceilings.
This
could
be,
you
know
all
sorts
of
other
issues
and
then
there's
the
third
is
kind
of
the
the
remuneration
scheme
right.
B
So
if
it's
sold
above
face
value,
does
half
of
that
markup
go
back
to
the
symphony
as
a
donation
right,
so
the
world
of
possibilities
when
you
think
about
rules-based
resale
or
creating
rules-based
Marketplace
infrastructure
is
really
appealing
because
for
if
I'm
Boston,
Symphony
there's
no
way
I
can
compete
with
the
search
engine,
optimization
of
a
Vivid
Seats
or
a
c
geek
or
a
TM
plus.
But
what
I
can
do?
What
I'd
like
to
do
is
be
able
to
have
a
technology,
but
let
me
lets
me
take
advantage
of
their
reach
without
sacrificing
control.
B
So
that's
really
what
we're
exploring
now
you
know
this
is
our
operational
snapshot.
I
gotta
update
that
we're
actually
live
with
10
venues
now
so
we'll
be
announcing
a
new
one.
Next
week,
we've
delivered
almost
two
million
tickets,
I'd
say
about
a
third
of
those
are
enabled
by
hyperledger
fabric
on
blockchain,
and
so
we
offer
both
a
blockchain
and
a
non-blockchain
service.
Some
of
our
clients
have
no
desire
to
take
advantage
of
secondary
markets
or
other
distribution
channels,
and
in
that
case
that's
a
completely
centralized
solution.
B
B
So
I
like
to
say
that
that
we're
pretty
proven
pretty
proven
opportunity
and
and
we're
hoping
to
kind
of
keep
this
going
and
build
out
the
marketplace
infrastructure,
and
so
with
that,
and
it
was
kind
of
a
little
bit
of
a
rambling
talk,
but
I'll
I'll
stop
there
I
think
we
got
like
25
minutes,
bro
I'm
happy
to
entertain
any
questions.
Y'all
have.
A
A
B
Things
so
we
do
that
in
a
different
way
right.
So,
unlike
Ticketmaster
and
unlike
most
people
in
the
ticketing
space,
we
don't
sell
tickets,
we
deliver
tickets
right
and
as
a
as
a
trans,
transparency,
identity
and
accountability
solution.
It's
it's
really
independent
on
what
happens
on
the
front
end
right.
So
we
there
was
an
announcement.
A
couple
weeks
ago
we
announced
our
partnership
with
the
Smith
Center
in
Hamilton,
where
they're
on
sale
and
the
Way
Hamilton
approaches
on
sales
is
a
little
bit
different.
B
They
they
just
kind
of
let
the
sale
happen,
and
they
take
actually
two
to
four
weeks,
then
to
sort
through
they
don't
release
the
tickets.
So
when
you,
when
you
buy
a
ticket,
you
get
an
email
saying
hey.
If
you
get
a
confirmation
that
you
know
your
tickets
will
be
delivered,
but
then
they
actually
go
through
the
data
to
see
all
right
is.
Do
we
think
this
person's
a
bot?
Do
we
think
they're,
a
real?
You
know
a
real
person
is
going
to
go
to
the
show.
B
Do
we
are
we
able
to
connect
them
with
any
sort
of
secondary
Market
activity?
So
there's
different
ways
to
solve
it,
and
what's
interesting
about
us
is,
is
we're
simply
an
enforcement
mechanism
right
so
from
sale
to
scan
we're
an
enforcer
of
the
ticket?
And
that
can
be
that
can
be.
You
know
if
people
want
to
not
have
their
tickets
show
up
on
the
secondary
Market,
but
could
also
be
to
work
with
the
secondary
Market.
Again,
you
know
people
our
clients
can
put
rules
around
tickets.
B
We
let
them
put
the
rules
around
the
tickets,
that's
in
the
best
interest
for
their
business,
but
other
than
that
we
just
enforce
it,
and
so
I
would
say
that
that's
a
big
difference
for
us,
so
I,
actually
kind
of
in
understanding,
ticketing,
completely
removed
ourselves
from
that
front-end
mess
right,
so
we're
just
a
delivery
mechanism
delivery
option.
So
in
that
way
you
know
we
allow
our
clients
to
handle
the
bot
problem,
but
in
a
different
way
right
you
could
try
to.
B
You
could
try
to
handle
the
problem
head
on
at
the
on
sale,
which
is
tough.
It's
just.
It's
tough
because
I
mean
there's
so
many
things
going
on
or
you
can
let
things
happen
and
then
you
can
start
to
kind
of
weed
through
and
kick
out.
You
know
what
you
think
are:
are
bad
purchases
or
bad
sales
and
again
it's
more
of
a
business
decision.
So
on
the
like
I
said:
we
don't
we
don't
sell
tickets
and
I
think
that's
actually
a
benefit
for
us,
because
one
of
the
things
too
is
you.
A
Okay,
tell
me:
there's
a
lot
of
big
names
promoting
crypto
in
in
many
venues,
maybe
they're
not
so
proud
of
it
lately
with
the
crypto
winter
being
what
it
is,
but
any
thoughts
about
integrating
crypto
payments
in
or
yeah.
Have
you
been
approached
by
any
of
your
clients
about
the
potential
for
having
either
stable
coins
being
used
or
things
of
that
nature?
As
part
of
the
blockchain
side
of
your
of
your
Integrations.
B
Usually
what
I
do
is
I.
Ask
them:
okay!
Well,
why
why
why,
from
a
business
standpoint,
does
it
make
sense
for
you
to
accept
crypto,
so
is
it
you're
trying
to
maybe
engage
a
new
demographic?
Do
you
see
this
as
being
some
sort
of
in
your
currency,
hedge?
So
so,
typically,
it's
completely
separate
so
I
get
asked
about
it,
but
I
would
say,
look
I
for
them.
I
say
crypto
is
just
another
payment
mechanism
potentially
for
you
right.
B
So
it's
all
I'm
checking
out,
do
I
buy
it
in
you,
know,
usdt
or
do
I,
buy
it
with
my
Visa
card
right
and
again
completely
independent
for
tickets,
because
we're
after
that
and
so
I
would
say
that
from
the
crypto
standpoint,
are
our
clients
looking
at
it
and
interested
in
it?
Yes,
have
we
talked
to
them
about
it?
Yes,
is
there
any
any
impact
today
for
True
tickets,
I
would
say
no
most,
like
I
said
most
of
my
client
conversations
around
you.
You
have
to
ask
yourself
like
why?
Are
you
doing
crypto?
B
Why
are
you
doing
nfts
like
what
from
what
business
problem?
Are
you
attempting
to
solve
or
what?
What
business
hypothesis
are
you
trying
to
prove
out?
That's
the
more
important
thing,
and
if
you
think
that
crypto
is
part
of
it,
then
you
should
absolutely
explore
it,
but
for
us
we're
we're
completely
independent
of
any
of
that.
A
A
A
B
So
the
the
business
impact
today
is
is
about
identity
and
accountability
right.
So,
if
you
think,
on
the
ticketing
side,
I
mean
now
that
we've
been
in
operations
for
two
years,
we
have
some
quantifiable
data
around
the
impact
right,
so
we're
seeing
one
is
like
a
lower
no-show
rate
right,
so
people
are
using
our
tickets
relative
to
other
ticket
types.
They
are
showing
they're
showing
up
at
the
venue
in
higher
propensity
than
others
right.
This
could
be
for
several
reasons.
B
The
second
is
because
of
the
way
our
ticketing
solution
is
constructed.
It
really
is
a
live
event,
management
solution
as
well
right,
so
you
you're,
not
downloading
an
app
it's
a
web,
app
you're
able
to
access
it
and
our
clients
are
able
to
change
things
about
the
ticket
and
the
event
essentially
real
time.
B
How
we
got
to
do
radio
announcements,
we
got
to
do
email
blasts,
we
got
to
do
phone
calls
telling
everyone
the
shows
you
know
delayed
by
30
minutes
when
they
kind
of
stopped
and
said.
Actually
we
just
need
to
update
the
system
and
the
ticket
will
take
care
of
it
right.
So
creating
that
real
that
real-time
connection
with
the
actual
person
it
has
an
impact
right.
So
if
you're
notified
people
they're
more
likely
to
come
and
and
that
that's
that's
had
a
huge
fact,
the
other
thing,
too,
is
is
the
the
ticket
buyers.
B
Lately,
postcoded
are
really
buying
last
minute,
and
so
the
ones
that
are
buying
last
minute
are
more
likely
to
go
and
and
that's
having
an
effect
right.
The
other
thing,
too,
is
from
a
management
standpoint
on
the
operation
side.
What
we're
finding
is
a
lot
of
customer
service.
Rep
time
was
dealt
used,
dealing
with
ticketing
issues
and
with
our
service
we're
seeing
a
significant
drop
in
ticketing
issues
right,
there's
a
lot
less
fraud,
there's
a
lot
less
confusion.
B
If
somebody
says
hey
I
had
a
ticket,
it's
pretty
picked
minutes
right
to
just
kind
of
get
to
the
bottom
of
it
and
so
you're,
seeing
in
box
office
staffs
having
you
know,
being
much
lower,
we
went
to
it
was
last
year,
I
went
to
the
public
theater
the
the
week
we
launched
with
them
and
my
head
of
sales
and
a
couple
other
people
associate
with
two
tickets.
We
went
to
one
of
their
shows
and
I
was
asking
my
client
I
said,
look
I'm
kind
of
curious.
What
is
the
impact
of
true
tickets?
B
As
you
see
it
today
on
on
how
you
kind
of
ticket,
how
you
get
people
into
the
venue-
and
you
said,
look
at
the
box
office
and
I
said
yeah
he's
like
what
do
you
see?
I
go
nobody!
It's
exactly!
There's
nobody
at
the
box
office
right.
Usually,
we
have
lives
with
people
like
having
problems
with
ticketing.
B
B
You
know
end
up
paying
paying
tens
of
thousand
dollars
a
year
and
chargebacks,
and
so
you
start
to
see
the
quantifiable
business
impact
right
now
when
it
comes
to
distributed
Ledger
Tech,
the
thought
is
in
the
future,
and
this
is
what
we're
exploring
now
is.
Is
how
do
we
incorporate
distribution
channels
that
want
to
be
a
part
of
it
right?
So
there's
the
revenue
upside
of
it,
but
we
are
seeing
a
significant
impact
and
for
anyone,
who's
building
a
business
leveraging.
B
This
Tech
I
think
you
know
it's
easy
to
get
enamored
with
the
tech,
but
it's
still
kind
of
just
business
value,
proposition
101
right
like
how
can
I
what
does
it
cost
and
like?
What's
the
gain?
What's
the
ROI
right
and
so
we're
seeing
significant
Roi
and
really
that's
what
we
rely
on
when
we
talk
about
our
service
and
the
benefits
to
our
clients
is
here's
the
impact
we're
seeing
with
other
clients
and
here's
what
this
could
mean
for
you,
independent
of
the
technology.
A
A
B
B
So,
on
the
consumer
side
yep,
so
one
of
the
things
we've
done
is
with
our
solution
is
actually
done:
hundreds
of
hours
of
user
testing,
with
demographics
that
align
with
our
clients
and
what
we
have
found
our
clients,
one
of
our
clients
biggest
concerns
is
adoption
right,
saying:
hey
we've
got
a
demographic
that
maybe
isn't
as
technologically
savvy.
We
need
to
be
mindful
of
that.
It's
going
to
be
hard
to
adopt
and
really
what
what
we've
done
with
our
solution
and
what
I
think
we
did.
B
Smartly,
even
with
our
blockchain
solution,
is,
if
you
interacted
with
it,
you
had
no
idea
that
there
was
distributed
Ledger
Tech,
underneath
it
it
was
simply
you
just
interacted
with
a
ticket
you
accessed
it.
The
rules
are
on
it.
You
can
do
things
with
it
in
many
ways.
What
that
resulted
in
was
we
built
a
consumer-facing
capability
that
essentially
meets
people
where
they're
at
right
so
think
about
it?
And
we
all
we
do
everything
on
our
phones
today,
right
and
by
the
way,
that's
no
different.
If
you're
20,
40
50
80.
B
So
what
what
we
like
to
joke
about
is
the
airline
industry
really
kind
of
did
all
the
heavy
lifting
to
get
people
on
their
phones
when
it
comes
to
ticketing
and
so
in
many
ways
on
the
consumer
side,
the
patron
side,
when
you're
buying
a
ticket
we're
just
meeting
you
where
you're
at
already
right
so
you're
you're
going
to
your
website
that
part,
nothing
really
has
changed.
The
only
thing
that
maybe
has
changed
is
how
you're
getting
your
ticket.
B
So
instead
of
getting
a
PDF
print
at
home
or
something
mailed
to
you
or
picking
up,
it
will
call
you're
getting
an
email
at
the
link.
You
click
that
link
and
you're
logging
in
with
your
Venue
credentials
right,
so
there's
no
true
tickets
is
really
the
Intel
inside
and
it
you
know.
If
you
go
to
any
of
our
clients,
they're
just
delivering
through
a
white
label
site
I
mean
Boston
Symphony,
it's
I
think
tickets.tango.org
today
and
you're
logging
with
their
credentials.
So
for
from
a
consumer
standpoint,
it's
really
fairly
straightforward
and
seamless.
B
That
said
it,
it's
going
to
look
that
way,
because
we
spent
hundreds
of
hours
trying
to
figure
out.
What's
the
what's
the
most
efficient
way
to
do
this,
and,
what's
you
know,
what's
going
to
resonate,
what's
the
verbiage
what's
the
flow,
so
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
user
testing
to
understand.
How
can
we
make
sure
that
our
our
services
intuitive?
In
fact,
you
know
with
ticket
sharing
what's
been
incredibly
validating?
Is
we
are
we're
live
with
it
now
in
pretty
much
all
our
venues?
B
None
of
our
venues
have
publicly
communicated
to
their
patrons
that
this
feature
is
available.
Yet
in
the
last
two
weeks
we've
seen
thousands
of
tickets
be
shared,
thousands
of
new
accounts
being
created
and
the
the
vast
majority
of
the
feedback
we've
gotten
from
our
clients
and
their
patrons
has
been
oh
wow.
This
is
great.
B
I
think
it
has
a
user
experience
problem
right
like
if
I
want
to
get
crypto
I've
got
to
get
a
metamask
and
I've
got
to
you
know,
convert
I
mean
shoot.
One
of
the
big
one
of
the
big
new
changes
is
metamask
now
accepts
credit
cards
right,
so
I
don't
have
to
go
to
coinbase
I,
don't
have
to
buy
on
coinbase
and
then
convert
my
ethereum
to
my
you
know,
transfer
to
my
metabask
account
so
then
buy
other
crypto.
I
can
literally
buy
straight
via
my
credit
card
on
metamask
I'd.
Much
rather
do
that
right.
B
B
You
know
this
is
a
little
bit
harder,
but
you
get
so
much
more
benefit
here
and
that's
just
not
how
people
work
right,
like
people
go
well,
I
want
the
benefit,
but
I
also
want
this
to
be
easy
right,
and
so,
if
you,
if
you
can't
figure
out
how
to
how
to
make
that
work,
like
your
your
solution's
not
going
to
get
adopted,
an
interesting
analogies
think
about
Airline
Wi-Fi
right
like
15
years
ago,
you
just
got
on
a
plane
and
you
accepted
you.
Weren't
gonna
have
internet
right.
B
So
maybe
you
loaded
up
your
outlook
box.
Maybe
you
did
something
you
watched
a
movie,
but
then
Airline
Wi-Fi
came
on
and
now
you
can
connect.
Now
you
have
email
and
it's
now
your
expectation
is
I'm
going
to
be
able
to
get
work
done
on
my
flight
and
what
happens
when
they
are?
You
know
the
in-flight
Wi-Fi
doesn't
work
you're
pissed,
because
your
expectations
not
met
right,
and
then
you
want
compensation
like
I,
actually
get
more
miles
like
I.
Wasn't
able
to
get
my
work
done
same
thing
when
you're
building,
even
an
emerging,
Tech
solution.
B
You
need
to
understand
what
the
what
the
with
the
critical
dimensions
of
the
customer
experience
or
the
user
experience
are
and
what
their
minimum
expectations
are
and
across
the
board.
You
at
least
have
to
meet
the
minimum.
Otherwise
it's
not
going
to
get
adopted,
and
this
is
where
again
I
think
in
this
space,
because
the
technology
is
complex,
right,
like
look
building
distributed,
systems
is
hard
and
any
one
of
those
areas
where
the
dimension
is
hard.
B
If
you're
trying
to
get
adoption,
if
you
can't
meet
the
minimum
expectation,
it's
gonna,
you're,
gonna
struggle,
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
we've
done
very
well
is
really
architect
our
solution
to
be
as
seamless
and
intuitive
as
possible,
where
you
can
Leverage
The,
emerging
Tech,
but
from
the
consumer
side.
You
know
it's
essentially
a
material
you're
either
getting
what
you
expected
were
better
than
what
you
expected.
A
B
So
selling
versus
delivery
right
so
think
about
it,
like
this
Ticketmaster
sells
the
ticket
right,
so
you
they're
the
they're
the
payment
rail,
if
I'm,
if
I'm,
delivering
the
ticket
I'm,
maybe
think
about
like
this.
It's
a
package
you
go
on
to
Amazon
and
you
buy
a
package,
but
you
know
that
package
can
be
delivered
sometimes
to
the
U.S
Postal
Service
right,
the
US
Postal
Service
isn't
selling
you
the
package
from
Amazon
they're,
just
making
sure
that
package
gets
delivered
right.
So
it's
more
of
an
infrastructure
play
right.
B
So
that's
the
biggest
thing
and
when
you're
selling
a
ticket
there's
a
a
little
bit
of
a
moral
hazard.
If
you
want
to
be
an
infrastructure
play
because
you're,
essentially
monetizing
and
incentivized
on
on
making
sure
you
sell
those
tickets
for
as
much
as
possible
versus
being
a
delivery
mechanism,
only
we
could
be
an
infrastructure
solution.
A
B
B
You
know
Brad
another
way
to
kind
of
add
to
ramesh's
question
right.
So
when
we
think
about
the
internet,
you
know
there's
the
application
layer
right
and
that
that's
where
you
know
Amazon
and
a
lot
of
other
companies
monetize
and
there's
the
infrastructure
layer
which
is
TCP
right,
so
the
infrastructure
layer
delivers,
doesn't
sell,
and
so,
when
you
think
about
true
tickets,
our
goal
is
to
be
that
infrastructure
layer
that
facilitates
essentially
effective
and
transparent
and
efficient
ticketing,
the
application
layers,
let
ticketing
systems
and
others
sell
tickets,
and
we
can
just
process.
B
A
Makes
sense
the
I
think
the
whole
concept
of
blockchain
and,
as
you
alluded
to
earlier,
is
that
it's
invisible
it's
to
the
end
user
and
they
they're
they're,
never
going
to
know
whether
there's
any
blockchain
in
the
back
end
and
they
shouldn't,
and
in
some
cases
they
shouldn't
be
told
either
I
think
because
of
the
opinions
that
they
may,
they
may
come
up
with.
But.
A
Else,
that's
right
exactly
yeah
exactly
distributed,
Ledger
yeah
any
other
questions
for
Matt
we're
we're
closing
in
on
the
one
hour
period
here
and
Matt.
That
was
a
phenomenal
presentation
and
we
want
to
hyperledger
wants
to.
Thank
you
I
want
to
thank
you
very
much
for
taking
the
time
for
putting
all
that
together
and
we
definitely
have
learned
something
today
and
have
a
better
appreciation
for
what
you're
doing
so
awesome
thanks
for
reaching
out
and
happy
to
do
it.
A
Thank
you
so
much
and
we'll
we'll
make
sure
this
gets
up.
I'll,
send
you
a
link
to
the
recording
on
the
YouTube
channel
for
everybody,
also
in
the
chat,
I
put
a
link
to
Matt's
opining
on
nfts
and
tickets.
So
that's
that's
something
we'll
put
those
links
up
in
the
in
the
YouTube
video,
the
hyper
hyperledger
channel.
So
thank
you
all
for
attending
Matt.
Thank
you
very
much
for
taking
the
time
again
and
it
was
a
fantastic
presentation.
Thank
you.
So
much
awesome.