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From YouTube: Hyperledger Seattle Meetup - March 21

Description

Video from the March 21 Hyperledger Seattle Meetup. HSM welcomes Scott Tupper, Founder and CEO, and Dan Carlson, CTO of Yave.io (https://www.yave.io), to speak on the topic of utilizing the blockchain supply chain in coffee production.

You can join the group here:
https://www.meetup.com/Hyperledger-Seattle-Chapter/

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Hyperledger – Open Source Blockchain Technologies

Hyperledger is an open source community focused on developing a suite of stable frameworks, tools and libraries for enterprise-grade blockchain deployments.
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A

All righty settle in get ready, we're going to go well. First of all, thanks for being here happy spring I think today is officially the first day of spring, so very cool, it's been very odd weather and what high 70s or whatever, which is very unusual for springtime, certainly and Seattle. That's for sure, especially when we had piles of snow in our backyard that just two days ago, disappeared. So amazing all right! Well, thanks again for joining us. This is March, so we're well into the year. This is pretty fantastic.

A

We can't continue to grow and I'll talk about that in just a moment. First of all, as always, thanks to our sponsors, thanks to Erin, where's, Erin Erin, so Erin Erin is our a sponsor for commotion and commotion. Has a lovely catchphrase called powered by commotion, your innovation partner? So thanks Erin things commotion, and for those of you that don't know commotion, it's basically just a startup hub and you can sort of see smart people doing their magic over there and well and of course, Scott and Danna are part of commotion as well.

A

So there you go. Look at that, it works as well thanks to Tommy for for their support as well. Yagi is a connected commerce, software platform that creates a transparent marketplace between Roasters and producers in the coffee supply chain. So, thank you, gentlemen, and of course, we can start to smell the coffee wafting through. So this is a good thing, so, just just as an FYI fYI we're doing a recording for YouTube, as we always do.

A

However, my power supply went bad and so I've got we're on battery power, and so it's a it's a race against the clock. So unless someone happens to have a Dell power supply, we'll just sort of will wing it and do what we can do always something: okay on to community ounce myths.

A

So a little bit about hyper later, Seattle, we've now tripled just about tripled in size since the start of last year we're just about what eight eight twenty-something. When we get to eight forty I sent an email off Marissa and Terrance, and we get to eight forty we've tripled since beginning of last year, so we're moving at a good rate, I'm happy for that. Thanks for your participation, making that happen as well we're growing about one and a half persons per day, which is fantastic.

A

This is really good, considering that the crypto winters sort of slowed things down a bit, but we seem to be a little bit in more impervious to it, which is fantastic as well. Hsm is now the largest block blockchain framework meetup in the Pacific Northwest, which is fantastic and again. Thank you for that and I think we were just talking Kenna now we're just talking about a theorem, I, think they're, going through a reboot and I think they're, probably number two, so we need to keep on our toes it's. This is this.

A

Is this is friendly-fire we like to hear this. This is good incentive for continuing to grow the momentum here in the Seattle area as well. We've seen a 10% increase in active membership, which is amazing, I'm, sorry, Ted, I, say 10% 10x increased ten times since last year, which has made that made the meat experience, a great social networking opportunity for the blockchain community here in the Pacific Northwest. So again, thank you. It's been an amazing year about a year and a half or so so with that said, I am gonna, be segwaying away.

A

This is my second-to-last hosting event. I'm gonna be handing this over to Tim IRISA in May and she's gonna pick up and run with this meetup organization. We're firing and I'll send cylinders. A Mercer already has folks in the queue which is fantastic, she's got some great plans, so that happens in May. Are you ready.

A

And yeah, so so that's that's fantastic and again, thanks I've had a great experience since well since beginning of last year, so it's been a fun ride, fantastic and I'm. Continuing to work on hyper ledger. I chair the hyper ledger: healthcare special interest group. So I'm going to continue to do that.

A

Okay, so 400! Let's do let's do our raffle. So where is my I got? My phone over here, so Marissa is gonna, go find the the chicken sheet and I'm gonna fire up our magic app.

A

So so we're raffling off one of two I gonna raffle, two things off the t-shirt who doesn't know about the raffle who hasn't been all right? Okay, are you guys gonna have fun? Are you is this first timers Oh awesome? You may get something: that's the best part free stuff, a t-shirt which is always cool and a and I can never remember what it's called. It's an insulated water bottle. Thermos thing: yeah there you go. That's got one yeah all right! 119 yeah keep going Oh, Dan, Wow I! Don't think!

A

We've ever had this happen where both of the guests actually guts Oh. Another dancer- oh sorry, Dan, sorry, Oh, Oh, an XL won't fit you all right, so Dan, good grief, I feel like him. I mean I'm in like a zone uh-huh all right. It shouldn't be that hard, it's just stuff, all right, so we've got up coming so I sent an email out in two weeks, which is a pretty short timeframe.

A

Garrett Kennedy of County consulting is going to be speaking here on blockchain DevOps and, if you think about it, this is gonna, be a big deal going forward, he's sort of precedent in looking ahead to realize you know we got to do something about making sort of ease of use for spinning things up. In fact, dan you're gonna be talking, maybe a little bit about. Certainly the ease of use to are wise right, yeah, not so much DevOps, but something in that order.

A

Yeah, oh good, perfect, so so Garrett will be here on April, 2nd and the title of his talk is blockchain DevOps, using better tools to deploy, manage blockchain solutions and then scheduled for May 29th. But it's not announced yet. We've got a panel discussion with Lisa Mack. Former co founder and CEO Paco duck and Scott Austin senior exec, vice president of ever ledger to talk on the topic. This is still a very long topic title. So how did?

A

How do you leverage a distributed architecture to solve challenges and complex enterprise ecosystems with competing interests and motivations? So so so so Marisa is going to work on the title and in fact this is Marissa's. This is your. This is your debut really. You put this whole thing together and it's and the best part. This is our very first panel discussion ever so she's coming out of the staples hot. So this is gonna, be phenomenal. So anyway, so that's 529.

A

But it's unannounced because there she's still working on the details, and then you know the moment that we get everything is sort of squared away. It'll go up and you'll get the meetup announcement and then, in the June July timeframe, we've going to have David holding who's he's a principal healthcare lead at Microsoft. Corporation he's gonna be reprising.

A

His blockchain security presentation, given at the blockchain symposium at the hims conference earlier this year and I met David at the conference liked what he did realized that he's a local guy at Microsoft and he's thrilled to come and speak and I think Marissa is going to be working out. The details with him on that as well, so it's gonna, be sort of June. July timeframe would be my guess anyway.

A

That's it. So anyone else have some just some comments: announcements that they'd like to make in the blockchain community anyway, all right so onto our presentation here so I'm thrilled. So these guys live here and we've been trying to engage these guys for a while they're super busy, they're doing really cool stuff. Those of you that are drinking coffee. You realize this is a good thing. This is Seattle. I mean come on, so they're gonna be talking up, ending the coffee, cart, blockchain and disruption and disruption.

A

So Scott's the founder CEO of yaver IO, a blockchain trading platform for a tropical agriculture he's also founder of onda originals origins, coffee, pioneering, specialty, roasting brand, through which he realized the need for transactional integration of data flow to a source of record for the coffee supply chain. Since its inception in 2017, yaver Incorporated has made international headlines with ongoing end-to-end blockchain projects connecting complete supply chains from coffee producer to consumer did I miss anything in that you get you guys are.

A

You were talking with IBM a couple weeks ago, so I mean you're, you're you're running you're moving fast, so that's cool and can I share this. It's it's your family! It's your brother as part of this, that's amazing, so so that we're miked for YouTube not for for the audience here, and so, if you're going to talk, make sure you have this in front of you at all times, a little switch on and off otherwise and and I wasn't paying attention either. What Scott said probably won't be caught in the YouTube.

A

So so we've got the lob mic for these guys and then this for for talking. So so anyway, so that said, oh and Dan I forget Dan. So so Dan is C to your CTO Ave. He combines his vast experience in casino and healthcare, CRM and database development, with a passion for learning, new tech and solving problems. So casino, no I, don't say anything cuz. It don't have this, but what'd ya, say something ok, so, anyway, all right now we can say: welcome these guys and around applause thanks very much for making this happen.

A

Scott you go first and I'm gonna hand this off to you.

B

So yeah I am Scott tougher owned origins. Is the coffee brand that my brother and I started in Seattle after years of living and working in tropical AG communities, myself in Polynesia and my brother Paul in Central America?

B

What we found as a result of our experiences within the farm communities was a shortcoming out of essentially the certification, labeling and direct trade models and coffee to deliver the ideals that they purported towards farmer empowerment. So we thought the only way to do that would to engage actual shoppers in a way that connects directly to a farmer, and this was long before thinking anything about blockchain. This is with a brand consumer packaged goods brand onda, and this is the coffee that you guys just tried, which was blockchain trace from Las harvesting Guatemala.

B

After about a year of getting owned a going and working extra hard in our value chain and being back in force to the countries who are sourcing from, we realized the need to standardize the way that we were logging. The way we bought, but also our remittance program.

B

That's revenue share per that we do with farmers so from their blockchain was grabbing a lot of headlines and- and we had spoken to a couple of service providers and actually tried to help implement one of them into a value chain in Brazil and what we noticed was essentially the blockchain being a team support.

B

It offered the perfect solution for our sourcing because we have a very transparent model of selling coffee, but what it lacked was an incentive structure for industry, adoption for the intermediaries and all of the logistics and service providers in the middle. So we've spent the last year plus working on that so yeah dan is our CTO he's developed all of the actual tech on top of hyper ledger and then we're joined today also by Rahul who's, our CFO and he and I met after an Innovation Summit in antigua guatemala.

B

He's lived in Guatemala for the past five years and is now joining us here in Seattle as well. I'm gonna pull up a Prezi is this. This is on for presenting her. There.

B

The coffee you tried was from Yvonne Herrera out of via Canales Guatemala.

B

It was to our knowledge, the first blockchain coffee out of the Americas and landed here in Seattle, with great impact for Yvonne, who about doubled her income over the experience, but also really good for onda and the other roaster that bought it. We were able to charge a premium because people had greater information about the coffee and they were excited about having a trustworthy shopping experience as opposed to a green washed coffee shopping experience. Let's say.

B

And Yvonne herself got to come visit, Seattle last September and share her story as well, so yeah we're yaver. We are a two sided marketplace which, based on the experience I, had with owned origins, which still exists and I encourage you all to buy owned an origins com.

B

We realized the greater opportunity for impact in business by standardizing the sourcing methodology. We had perfected within our own supply chain and we wanted to enable more and more farmers to be able to access Roasters like ourselves.

B

We've surveyed the industry extensively, one of our team members, chi cheng, is a business analytics and data intelligence guy and he's he's built a bunch of surveying for us to reach out to other Roasters who've signed up onto our platform and what we found is overwhelmingly truly 91% of Roasters are willing to pay a premium for coffee that has unit level price information about the farmer payment component, because right now that is obfuscated through intermediaries in the first export mile, let's say in coffee value-chain.

B

Normally, when you're drinking a cup of coffee, it's already changed hands, 10 or 11 times.

B

So how did we get here doesn't even want to venture a guess as far as what this number is, what.

B

Is it no? So this is the commodity market price for coffee futures price for coffee as it closed today per pound, 94 cents or ninety four dollars per 100 pound keying tall sach, 94 cents, a pound and the costs of production on the global scale is estimated to be about a dollar 65 a pound. So right now farmers are running from coffee, they're, going out of business. We have internal and external immigration crises from Central America, as we've seen broadly publicized in in the US media.

B

A lot of this movement comes from small farmers who cannot make money question a.

C

Raw bean, the green or dried bean I don't know what yeah.

B

So I probably should have put a slide in here explaining the coffee supply chain, as it is physically. We have a fruit much like a cherry that is picked off of a tree high in the mountains in the tropics. That's the coffee belt is the tropics at high altitude. It's picked it's in a fruit, it's surrounded by Musil, edge and juice and skin that needs to be milled in a process called wet milling. Then we have something called parchment, which has a little husk around it.

B

Parchment is like a peanut skin, around coffee bean and from there that needs to be dry, milled and converted into green coffee. He is then sorted for defects, at which point it is exportable, so an exporter normally is the only one who has the capital goods necessary in order to do dry, milling process, because that machinery is hundreds of thousands of dollars when it's really sophisticated.

B

So coffee is a game of scale, which is why it falls into the commodity category. The commercial ID, however, just to add a little bit of market context in the last 20 years or so. Coffee has d commodified itself in the consumer market, specialty coffee, as the category is called as a 30 billion dollar sector in the US, and that has grown steadily four percent year-over-year for the last ten years. So right now we have people who are willing to pay five dollars for a cup of coffee, but a market which is still demanding.

B

This is green export. To answer your question. Actually, this is a green coffee in the value chain, so a farmers getting a fraction of this. In many cases we're at the bottom well we're falling right now and as low as we've seen in eight years, we're in a trough, and we don't know where the bottom will be.

B

So the way that this price is determined is as a result of global supply. Forecasting primarily Brazil is the driver, they're they're, the largest producer and all weather patterns and futures trading itself. So we have currently is consumer demand at an all-time high willingness to pay at an all-time high.

B

Yet countries like Brazil, which the technical capacity for industrial agriculture, mechanized picking major infrastructure, like freeways group owned community owned mills to do the wet, milling and dry milling that enabled them to produce coffee at a fraction of the cost of production, as let's say, Guatemala or Ethiopia, or a country with much more hostile terrain and less infrastructure development.

B

So right now, as any commodity, we're saying apples Brazil our apples, Guatemala, but the reality is the cost of production is different and we now have substantial consumer evidence and scientific sensory and a sensory analytical evidence that the coffee's are in fact different in profile, value and all kinds of other characteristics. So people are willing to pay for this coffee at met, market I, think 13 or 14 dollars is what we charge and this is a pound.

B

And then, if we were to produce 27 cups out of this, we could probably sell each cup for $4 we'll find out we're opening our cafe and may ish downhill, Minh City. So there's over a hundred dollars of value in a roasted coffee.

B

So the entire mission is to bridge all that value created and the consumer willingness to shop that way to the farmers themselves, and we found blockchain to be an elegant solution in in the area of grant theory. But in practice it's really really hard to get so many different people speaking different languages of business, different languages of language, different languages of foreign exchange and currency to play a team sport like blockchain.

B

So that's been my charge in this entire effort in a minute we'll get to what Dan's had to do to accommodate all of these variables as well.

B

So I'm gonna play a really brief video, just a highlight of the Yvonne success case out of Guatemala.

C

Like another economic hunt, the G sample means a cheap alcohol, we're going to do great. Okay, that's what we're working with the result of two years of hard work, getting a good price one of these and not matter it will use this on the international home. He teaches market whereby fetches coffee into predetermined price for a future delivery date now she's under ectly to an independent.

B

C

Application on the origin, even not the team, is on fire fire with informational, manically control. Okay, if we knew the quota see, bursted school match beat. Why don't you take this to parties and really make them and watching technology that so that it were better wage consumers they're willing to pay up? We factory exactly we're saying yes exactly and that's what really happened.

B

So that's the story of Yvonne, and actually this year we were able something we're really proud of. We were able to get 15, Pickers, seasonal laborers on her farm bank accounts, and so all of that happens from consumer willingness to pay for this, but also the participation of the entire supply chain and enabling us to what the heck is going on here and enabling us to do experiments like what we did with you own so where's it all come from.

B

As I mentioned, I worked in international development and I studied actually anthropology and Latin American Studies in college I found myself living in Polynesia and then starting onda and still being really pulled towards the farmer. Experience I volunteered for a US aid program, called farmer farmer and wound up auditing, an association in western Guatemala that is the in association and coffee, is a mother structure to a cooperative. So a cooperative is a way that people pool their resources and go in together on logistics and wet milling.

B

The associate would be above that to do the dry, milling and the exporting. So it's a way in theory that a farmer is empowered to own a piece of the value chain. That's two three or four steps further along than they ever would have. In practice. You had their rampant with problems, inefficiencies, corruption and lack of traceability. So the association that I audited had 2,100 small holder, farmers, primarily of Mayan quiche, a and Ketchum will descent throughout western Guatemala. However, all of the power and decision-making is consolidated, an office in quetzaltenango.

B

The audit revealed that there are about $500,000 of coffee missing between inventory and sales team and in spite of being 100% Fairtrade organic certified the quote the association itself, nor any of the eight cooperatives underneath it could identify where the coffee was coming from. So what you, what you'll have happening in the western highlands of Guatemala on the border with Mexico oftentimes, is money laundering as well as human trafficking. So money laundering is basically it's a major drug channel into the u.s.

B

is through from all parts of South and Central America to Guatemala and then through that land border into Mexico and through the through Mexico to the US. What you'll have is actual people parties in the drug trade, paying above market local market prices for coffee to farmers, in order to have that coffee and then that coffee will wind up being organic, fair trade, whatever certification, you want to think of, and wind up at an association like this one.

B

So there's a big big problem and a big risk I think a corporate risk if someone were to go and expose. Actually, where does that coffee end up and what are these buying practices of a company revealing so right?

B

Now you have a lot of coffee, specialty, coffee and non specialty, coffee companies that do really big, expensive, CSR programs, but they willingly and deliberately turn their head from their own supply chain by utilizing third party sources of truth, let's say so: certifications and and even in-house standards that are meant to guarantee the way they source, because they know that they will never gain unit level traceability.

B

The reason blockchain could be transformational there is that you're actually giving power to the groups at the bottom of the food chain to say no. This is our product, and this is where this came from, like you can't label that that- and this is what we were paid among others- yeah.

C

Is a risk that you aggravate the ax cartels this process.

B

Possibly but money-laundering itself is probably not the biggest challenge that the challenges of the status quo within coffee, where these exporters and importers are used to this arbitrage game, where they're able to buy really cheap and holdout and pre finance, maybe a fraction of someone's crop with the guarantee that it'll turn in the entire thing.

B

So the risk is really more the existing actors, the entrenched actors in the value chain, and then it is the weird things that are happening around the farms, because you could launder through house real estate acquisitions, all the other stuff, that's already happening on the border as it is, but yeah I mean theoretically, there is probably not to the company doing it more so in the communities.

D

A couple of questions, actually one is: is there really consumer demand for this kind of transparency? You know you know. Is there a heavy demand, that's picking up our people really demanding for this kind of transparency before they consume. You know, day to day products. Do you actually see that it.

B

Depends on the market for whatever reason, marketing through coffee companies as well as certifying agencies, there seems to be a consumer affinity towards the plight of the coffee farmer, I, don't know whether or not that's true for for the rubber in my shoe right or for the I mean named name of product broccoli that is coming from that or no but I think I mean this was born of a consumer packaged goods brand, which has succeeded by leveraging block chain.

B

So it's there, but there's a narrative component and there's a whole effort that goes into this, which is contemporary to all of the actual technical capacity building. Yeah.

D

Because you know, if you look at regular grocery shopping, let's say vegetables, people buy I, think by and large people tend to trust, let's say the organic label, and even if people wanted to you know, understand the entire history of the product from you know, farm to shelf, you know, I think you can. You can still achieve that without blockchain and you give a QR code, people scan it, see it. Fine I mean at the consumer level, people who are going to this. You know grocery store and buying products.

D

Do they really, you know, understand blockchain or do they? Actually? You know expecting something like that. You know some.

B

D

Of transparency give them just just show them how this product arrived at. The shelf, I think people will take it now. The reason why I'm coming to it is because you know just few months before you know, I was actually running a blockchain company. Our company was actually called data chain, so we were actually we built a very scalable blockchain platform for the digital data supply chain or the physical supply chain, but the data supply chain. We, you know, data, gets exchanged, you know, hands between different companies and gets morphed and actually sold.

D

So we kind of got in this problem trying to understand trying to see if we can actually bring in blockchain and transparency, but after a lot of time, what we realized is even in b2b people don't care. You know there was really no demand for blockchain based transparency, yeah, so I'm kind of you know it's kind of hard to believe that a consumer level that kind of demand right actually exists. I.

B

Would argue that it's easier with consumers b2b, that's I mean that's just gonna be. How does this make me money? Consumerism we're talking about how people feel? How does this product correlate to my ideals into my perception of myself in the world and the risk? There is, of course, that somewhat, of course, consumers don't understand blockchain, don't don't get me confused there.

B

The the challenge is to build the brand of blockchain in a way that that is supporting these ethics and ideals and enables them to have the feeling of doing right by simply shopping, because we know that people won't read and they won't I mean I could look at the hashes that Dan is creating for our supply chains and means nothing to me right.

B

But if the actual governance and agency created in the value chain is there I think consumers do care? That I mean it's. It's overwhelming in Nielsen reports that people want to shop sustainably right now, they're just being deceived, so I, don't know your experience with with digital supply chains or with b2b.

D

There is there's a lot of talk going around saying: oh consumers, care about privacy laws, they want more privacy, blah blah blah and all of that, and then there came gdpr where it actually gave people rides to take. You know, control of their privacy, and you started seeing all of these pop-ups in all of these websites. Saying hey, we are going to track.

D

You are you, okay with it, and things like that and at the end of it very clear statistics which say that almost 95 to 98% of the people were just fine with all this track. They.

C

D

Ended up saying: okay, please track them, I'm, fine with it, okay for all the torque and ten years of effort into GDP. Are it almost feels like GDP or was the whole regulation was created to just legitimize what Google and Facebook was do anyways doing nothing.

B

Changed revenues are actually increasing. Why do you feel that.

D

Since we spend off, we spend almost 12 months digging into this right, so twelve months of not part of my job of doing my startup right, so heart and soul, twelve hours a day trying to figure this out. What we kind of understood is that consumers at the end of it, you know I, you know given multiple options. They just prefer something that is easy. You know cost-effective, you know easily that they can get set hands on and keep moving on. I know that.

B

A

Mean I there is.

D

A lot of talk and other thing that people are saying is: unless these things are pushed to by regulations, consumers are not really going to come up and demand. You know, I had a hard time selling a business model around these I think.

B

If you look at the market cap of Google or Facebook or whatever over the past ten years, when these data regulations are being put in place, that nobody gives a like, why, for.

D

B

We do that that is a human being past is a market response. I have what we have in shopping, our market responses to the way that people want to feel when they buy a thing and I know it's different and then like a digital supply chain. But in these supply chains there are inequities and people want to shop the right way. They do. I have experience with it.

B

A

Good example is the organic food market when you go in and pay five dollars a gallon for milk.

C

Instead of three dollars, you want to know that's organic and anytime that you know any discrepancy in that undermines your confidence and in paying that money. So that's.

A

Really, what you're trying to do and is guarantee.

C

C

Also I think coffee is a unique audience right there there. There is a large subset of coffee drinkers that you know want to know that I mean it's almost as though they want to know the farmer them themselves and the farther that they can understand or reach down the the more they're willing to pay and that that's I, you know are given so I think it's a lot different than maybe b2b or selling data, or something like that. This is somebody who can afford it and to them it's it's almost one-upmanship.

C

You know, I people talk about coffee and it's like well. What are you drinking and really comfort and everything? It's.

B

It's a craft, product and I think for whatever reason, I I empathize with you I, think I wish I wish. People, including myself, took all of the data violations from Facebook and everything else more seriously, but I don't see whether or not there's been a market response indicating that they do and within these products they do. If we're talking about $3 a gallon versus $5, a gallon there's $2 of a gallon for us to all make by making that experience more true, which blockchain enables when done right. It could also go the other way.

B

Someone could spin up blockchain just to gloss over whatever they're doing in their supply chain. That's not right and I'm sure that's happening as we speak, so it all starts with mapping the value chain, understanding who are these 10 11 12 actors? And what are the conversations that happen when a first mile asset is sold?

B

This is something we did with a value chain in the Philippines, through partnership with the Asia Pacific foundation, and just really trying to understand the unit economic costs that go into selling coffee and trading it. And what is the time value of money in these things? What what about the financing and how do we try to? We have this beautiful vision of empowering producers.

B

How do we actually go and execute that and that this part is different in almost every cup of coffee, that you'll drink, every there's, no standardization, so every coffee has its own I, don't know DNA or whatever history behind it. That makes unit level traceability incredibly difficult, and one of the things that we've found is it's not the traceability itself, that is the value driver with the coffee. It's the knowledge like you're, getting to with your commentary about whether or not anyone cares.

B

It's the knowledge that people had options agency informed consent around what the market value of their product was when it would ultimately get to Seattle or New York or London.

B

So our series that bought chain is not the solution itself. What's really, the solution is the access market access having the ability to have a repeat high-end market buyer rather than depending on someone trading, a futures exchange contract and then going and scouring the countryside for the lowest price? They can to buy coffee so from theory to practice. I think I've already kind of gone through this, but basically it's all really fun to talk about traceability and a glass pipeline and all of the other buzzwords that we use around blockchain.

B

But the reality is if I didn't, have a coffee roasting company to buy this. To begin with, we wouldn't have gotten any of this done because it just doesn't it's extra work. It doesn't make a difference to people, they don't care unless you're creating market access. So it's really all about market access in the case of what we're doing and there's plenty of money in the margin by disintermediating the arbitrage that currently happens with one actor like a Yami.

B

So we have this may, through partnership with Anna cafe, which is the National Coffee Association of the country of Guatemala, an auction that we're doing which has been opened to all producers in Guatemala, of which there are over 220,000. The top 25 lots that are submitted will then be auctioned and sold to 25 Roasters from around the world. Some of them will be participating in person.

B

We have over 60 attendees in person, and then we also have a digital log on for Roasters and that's the market access component I'm talking about you need to be able to build this bridge for sales, and then you can implement any kind of tech you want to if you, if you believe that that's necessary.

B

So that's just more information about the auction and that's really my brief spiel. Thank you guys.

B