►
From YouTube: IETF 109 Plenary
Description
The plenary session from the IETF 109 Online meeting.
A
A
So
just
a
couple
of
reminders,
folks
have
probably
gotten
used
to
meet
echo
by
this
point
in
the
week,
but
just
in
case
this
is
the
first
session
that
you're
joining
your
audio
and
video
are
muted
automatically
when
you
join
and
we're
asking
that
you
only
unmute
when
you
get
recognized
in
the
queue.
So
during
the
open
mic
portions,
if
you
want
to
speak,
please
join
the
queue
and
I'll
recognize
you
and
then
you
can
speak.
You're.
A
A
A
A
A
A
So
I
know
that
there's
been
a
kind
of
questions
and
interest
about
the
impact
of
the
pandemic
on
the
productivity
of
the
itf
and
participation
in
the
ietf
within
the
ihd.
We've
generated
a
little
bit
of
quantitative
data
to
try
and
get
a
handle
around
this,
so
I'll
share
a
little
bit
of
that
with
all
of
you,
so
one
measure
we
thought
about
looking
at
was
them
the
mailing
list
traffic,
and
this
is
for
all
of
the
public
mailing
lists
that
we
run.
A
So-
and
you
can,
if
you
remember
this
onset
of
the
pandemic
in
most
of
the
world,
was
in
the
march
time
frame,
so,
comparing
last
year
to
this
year,
what
we
see
is
actually
a
slight
uptick
in
the
in
the
mail
volume
hard
to
draw
too
many
conclusions
for
this.
I
think,
if
it
had,
you
know
plummeted
dramatically.
That
would
tell
us
something,
but
overall
in
terms
of
mailing
list
activity,
we
are
matching
or
slightly
above
where
we
were
last
year.
A
The
other
thing
that
I
would
say
is
that
we
are:
we've
only
gathered
the
data
here.
For
you
know
this
year
and
last
year
we
don't
know
what
the
typical
variance
is
from
year
to
year.
That's
something
that
we
could
try
to
put
together
to
understand
this
data
a
little
bit
better,
but
we
haven't
done
that
yet
next.
A
If
we
compare
last
year
and
this
year,
we're
looking
quite
similar
and,
as
you
can
see,
there's
also
a
there's
seasonal
variation
and
we
aren't
really
through
to
the
end
of
the
year
here
the
data
that
we
had
for
2020.
We
only
did
until
through
october,
given
the
dupe
that
it
is
now-
and
we
usually
have
this-
you
know
spike
before
right
at
the
draft
deadline.
A
Next,
we
also
looked
at
zero
zero
drafts,
so
subset
of
the
previous
data,
looking
on
specifically
at
zero
zero
drafts,
as
you
know,
kind
of
a
extremely
rough
proxy
of
new
work
coming
into
the
ietf
and
again,
the
caveat
here
is
like
we
don't
know
what
the
what
the
more
typical
year-over-year
variance
variances.
But
if
we
compare
last
year
to
this
year,
it
does
seem
that
for
pockets
of
this
year
were
a
bit
below
where
we
were
last
year.
A
A
But
of
course
it
isn't.
I
think
that
having
not
had
in-person
meetings
this
year,
we
all
realized
that
the
tremendous
value
that
we
derive
from
occupying
a
physical
space
together
and
then
it's
very
hard
to
imitate
that
without
being
in
that
physical
space
together
for
those
who
who
attend
the
meetings
in
person.
A
And
so
as
a
result,
I
think
some
of
the
you
know
the
ties
that
that
bind
us
together
have
develop
a
little
bit
of
slack
or
maybe
frayed
a
little
bit,
and
I
know
for
myself
that
that's
an
experience
not
specific
to
the
itf,
but
is
is
kind
of
something
that
I'm
experiencing
in
general,
that
you
know
not
being
able
to
see
peace.
People
in
person
makes
you
feel
more
distant.
A
I
think
we
are
seeing
you
know
whether
the
numbers
are
down
a
little
bit
or
not
we're
seeing
a
lot
of
activity
and
a
lot
of
active
participation
in
the
ietf
still,
and
so
I'm
I'm
really
thankful
for
that
and
for
all
the
efforts
that
people
continue
to
put
in
to
serving
the
mission
of
the
ietf.
It's
really
it's
really
gratifying,
and
I
think
this
week's
meeting
is
just
the
latest
evidence
of
that.
A
So
please
feel
free
to
you
know,
bring
your
suggestions
to
the
open
mic
today
or
to
email
us
there.
Our
email
address
is
on
the
slide.
One
thing
we've
talked
about
in
within
the
ieh
is
just
the
need
to
have
more
kind
of
informal
one-to-one
or
small
group
catch-ups
with
people
in
the
community
and
that's
something
that
I've
really
fallen
down
with
myself.
A
Just
you
know,
based
on
not
seeing
people
in
person
and
having
other
constraints
on
on
my
time,
and
I
think
that's
probably
true
for
lots
of
us,
and
so
that's
something
that
we've
we've
talked
about
trying
to
to
step
up
to
to.
You
know,
fill
in
the
gap
that
we
that
we
feel
by
not
seeing
each
other
in
person,
but
there
are
certainly
other
things
that
we
can
do
and
I'm
going
to
be
really
happy
to
hear
people's
suggestions
for
that.
So
we
are.
We
are
open
to
that
feedback
next.
A
So
these
are
the
participant
statistics
for
this
meeting.
You
know
north
of
1200
registrations,
which,
if
we
compare
to
108,
which
was
the
the
meeting
that
we
had
in
july,
it's
kind
of
similar
about
somewhere
in
the
neighborhood
of
50
to
70
more
registrations.
At
this
meeting
than
we
had
at
108.,
we
had
250
people
apply
for
fee
waivers.
Similarly,
as
a
slight
uptick
from
from
108
and
284
hackathon
registrations,
these
are
all
just
the
registration
numbers.
A
These
are
not
the
participation
numbers
because
we
won't
have
those
until
after
the
meeting
is
over
based
on
people
joining
later
in
the
week
we
do
have
for
registered
participants.
Our
country
breakdown
there.
You
can
see
it's
fairly
similar
to
what
it
you
know,
a
kind
of
typical
in-person
meeting,
depending
on
the
geographic
location
of
the
meeting,
so
good
spread
across
the
world
there.
A
A
So
this
has
been
announced
on
the
mailing
list,
some
time
back
the
itf
announcement
list,
but
just
to
make
sure
everybody
is
aware.
The
next
itf
meeting,
which
is
originally
planned
to
take
place
in
prague
in
march,
will
be
an
online
meeting
as
well,
so
its
110
will
be
online
and
it's
a
little
bit
earlier
in
the
year
than
our
our
typical
march
meeting
and
happening
in
the
second
week
of
march.
A
Next,
so
we're
continuing
to
try
to
refine
the
this
online
meeting
experience
and
the
the
best
way
that
we
can
do.
That
is
by
getting
a
lot
of
feedback
from
the
community
about
how
they
think
things
are
going
and
what
can
be
done
better
and
there's
several
different
ways
that
that
feedback
can
be
provided.
A
If
you're
having
technical
issues
during
the
meeting,
then
we
have
both
a
meet
echo
ticket
queue.
You
can
send
email
to
create
a
ticket
about
a
particular
issue
or
you
can
join
mtd
on
jabber
and
flag
the
issue
and
try
to
get
it
resolved.
That
way
for
feature
requests
which
is
not
like.
I
have
a
bug,
that's
preventing
me
from
participating,
but
rather
you
know
here's
something.
I'd
like
to
see
the
platform
do
in
the
future.
A
There
will
also
be
a
meeting
survey
that
goes
out
at
the
end
of
the
week,
and
that
is
super
valuable
for
for
planning
future
meetings.
You
know
we
reach
a
really
broad
audience
that
way.
So
every
every
one
of
you
who
can
fill
it
out
that
feedback
really
helps
us
and
you
should
see
a
link
to
that
on
the
109
attendees
list,
as
well
as
the
itup
announcement
list
and
then
for
longer
term
planning.
We
have
the
stay
home
meet
online,
meet
only
online
working
group.
A
A
So
typically,
we
would
have
the
buff
deadline
a
little
bit
closer
to
the
the
meeting
itself
for
itf
110,
we're
going
to
move
that
buff
deadline
back
just
a
bit
to
give
the
isg
and
the
ide
more
time
to
work
with
proponents
to
refine
their
proposals
before
a
final
decision
gets
made
about
whether
boss
will
be
scheduled
for
ietf
110
and,
as
I
noted
earlier,
the
meeting
itself
is
a
little
bit
earlier
in
the
year.
So
we
really
wanted
to
flag
this
for
people
far
in
advance,
so
that
everyone
is
aware
of
these
deadlines.
A
So
for
the
next
round
the
buff
request
deadline
will
be
january.
12Th
and
the
process
for
submitting
a
buff
request
is
the
same:
sending
email
to
isg,
ietf.org
and
posting
an
entry
in
the
buff
wiki
and
there's
instructions
for
what
to
put
in
that
entry.
If
you
visit
the
wiki
page,
we'll
do
a
preliminary
assessment.
The
iesg
and
the
iab
will
look
at
all
the
proposals
and
have
a
chat
about
them.
A
A
A
So
try
to
keep
it
brief
here,
because
I
know
people
don't
like
sitting
sitting
through
long
long
plenary.
So
there's
lots
more
topics
covered
online.
We
processed
one
appeal
and
the
last
cycle
is
actually
right
after
the
plenary
at
the
last
meeting
and
there's
more
reports
from
the
iab,
the
llc
board
secretary
iana.
All
of
that
is
in
the
meeting
materials
section
of
the
data
tracker
and
we,
of
course,
post
regular
updates
about
a
variety
of
topics
to
the
ietf
blog.
C
C
Yesterday
we
hold
held
the
iab
open
meeting.
So
that's
the
second
time
we're
doing
this
so
far,
I
think
feedback
was
positive.
What
we're
trying
to
do
in
the
meeting
is
really
to
talk
about
the
technical
and
architectural
work
the
iab
is
doing
so
we
give
feedback
on
or
like
we
present
what
we
did
in
terms
of
drafts
workshop
and
programs.
C
C
Also
something
that
might
be
interesting
and
more
information
has
been
presented
in
the
iab
open
meeting
yesterday
was
that
we
held
just
last
week
also
conflicting
with
some
other
stuff
in
ib
workshop.
The
workshop
contained
three
sessions
of
two
hours,
each
on
monday,
friday
and
one
day,
wednesday
and
friday.
C
So
I
think
the
setup
worked
quite
well.
This
was
the
first
time
we
had
a
virtual
workshop
and
there
was
also
very
good
discussion
about.
You
know
effects
that
we
have
observed
during
this
pandemic
and
things
we
need
to
learn
or
we
need
to
document
or
we
need
to
work
on
and
all
the
recordings
are
online
as
well,
and
the
iep
is
currently
working
on
a
report
next
slide.
C
And
with
that,
I
would
like
to
point
you
at
our
first
like
would
like
to
thank
you
to
all
our
appointees.
We
appointed
one
new
person
for
the
rsac
committee
and
that's
tim
april.
Thank
you
and
then
we
have
two
current
calls
out
there.
One
is
for
feedback
on
the
icann.
Technical
is
not
group
appointment
and
the
other
one
is
for
nominations
for
the
internet
society
board
of
trustees.
D
D
D
The
computation
in
the
network
group,
which
I
believe
is
tomorrow,
the
the
congestion
control
group,
which
I
think
is
on
friday
and
network
management
also,
I
think
tomorrow,
if
you're
not
familiar
with
the
irtf,
please
read
rfc
7418,
and
that
gives
you
a
really
nice
primer
for
what
we
do
targeted
at
people
who
are
familiar
with
the
way
the
ietf
works.
Next
slide.
D
D
D
So
if,
if
you
know
of
any
good
recent
work
in
applied
networking,
any
good
ideas,
any
good
people
who
have
been
good
to
bring
to
the
ietf
and
the
irtf
meetings,
then
please
go
to
the
irtf.org
a
nrp
website
and
nominate
that
work.
We
accept
for
party
nominations
where
you
nominate
somebody
else's
work,
but
also
self-nominations.
D
D
We
also
have
the
final
three
nrp
prize-winning
talks
for
2020
happening
in
the
irtf
open
meeting
on
friday.
This
week
the
talks
are
from
deborah
pam,
who
will
talk
about
the
design
of
network
topologies
for
lower
for
low
earth
orbit
satellite
constellations
such
as
spacex's
starlink
from
georgia,
we'll
talk
about
her
her
work
on
internet
transparency
and
from
monisha
we'll
talk
about
congestion
control
fairness.
D
E
Well,
hopefully,
y'all
can
hear
me.
I
have
no
idea
if
I
am
sending
any
video,
but
I
did
click
the
button
yep.
We
have
video
and
audio
great
okay,
so
the
nom-com
it
has
been
actually
a
real
pleasure
this
year
you
know
I
I
mentioned
I
was
going
to
put
andrew
sullivan
on
call
block,
but
that's
really
only
a
joke.
Andrew
I
don't
mean
it
so
are
y'all
controlling.
Can
you
move
forward
anyway?
E
E
E
A
E
To
try
audio
this
time,
okay,
so
I'll
just
be
quick.
We
have
done
almost
all
of
our
interviews.
We
have
only
one
more
interview
scheduled
community
feedback
does
in
friday.
If
there's
anything
else,
you
want
to
say,
please
get
it
in.
We
are
looking
at
all
of
the
feedback
we
receive
and
we're
reading
it
carefully
and
there's
the
website
in
case.
E
You've
missed
it
as
to
where
to
provide
feedback,
and
you
know
feel
free
to
choose
your
definition
of
friday,
because
I
get
to
push
the
button
and
I'm
not
pushing
it
until
saturday.
So
if
we
move
on,
I
did
want
to
just
you
know,
give
you
all
a
heads
up
on.
This
is
the
remaining
schedule
that
we're
intending
to
abide
by
it's
sort
of
a
traditional
schedule.
E
E
Just
you
know,
we
love
our
statistics,
so
I
thought
I'd
just
provide
you
with
a
bit
of
food
for
thought
as
to
where
the
nominees
are
coming
from
according
to
calendly.
Now,
admittedly,
calendly
is
basing
it
on
the
ip
address,
and
some
people
were
coming
in
through
corporate
vpns
and
so
their
corporate
vpns,
if
they
were
working
for
a
u.s
company,
may
have
represented
them
as
u.s,
even
if
they
were,
for
example,
in
india,
but
nonetheless
this
is
just
something
to
think
of.
E
You
know
as
we
look
at
who
is
actually
attending
ietf
versus
who
is
standing
for
the
positions,
and
maybe
we
need
to
do
a
little
something
as
a
community
to
try
and
have
our
leadership,
even
the
people
standing
for
leadership
positions
more
representative
of
the
community.
If
we
consider
our
statistics,
representative
of
the
community,
where
you
know,
even
in
a
north
american
meeting,
only
half
of
the
people
came
from
north
america.
E
So
I'm
just
going
to
have
a
little
bit
of
soapbox,
because
y'all
gave
me
this
platforms
on
the
next
slide
is
my
soapbox
of.
Maybe
we
as
a
community
can
do
just
a
little
bit
more
to
look
around
us,
especially
those
of
us
who've,
been
here
a
while
and
who
aren't
aren't
in
leadership
positions,
because
I
don't
think
that
mentoring
is
something
that
is
the
job
of
the
leadership.
Necessarily,
I
think
it's
the
job
of
the
community,
especially
if
we
have
a
bottom-up
driven
community
model.
E
So
look
around
you
look
at
the
people
who
are
taking
minutes.
Look
at
the
people
who
are
writing
drafts
and
say
you
know.
I
think,
maybe
that
person
could
make
a
good
working
group
chair
reach
out
to
them
say
you
know,
I
think
you
could
make
a
good
working
group
chair
and
you
know
maybe
offer
to
chat
with
them
on
a
monthly
basis,
understand
what
roadblocks
they're
facing
in
ietf.
What
are
their
hopes
in
ietf?
E
F
So
and
next
slide,
thank
you.
So
I
want
to
start
off
by
thanking
cisco,
who
have
been
the
host
of
this
meeting.
It's
often
very
difficult
for
when
we
have
virtual
meetings
or
online
meetings
for
hosts
to
get
the
same
level
of
benefits
as
they
get
in
in
person
meetings,
but
our
hosts
have
recognized
that
they
need
to
support
the
itf
and
that
there
are
still
ways
in
which
we
can
deliver
benefits.
So
it's
very
good
that
they're
continuing
to
support
us.
So
thank
you
very
much
cisco
next
slide.
Please.
F
And
thank
you
to
huawei
our
gold
sponsor
for
this
meeting
and
thank
you
to
fastly,
who
are
our
silver
sponsor
you'll
notify
notice
that
it
says
diversity
inclusivity
there.
We
are
shifting
the
way
that
we
offer
sponsorships
away
from
just
general
meeting
sponsorships
towards
more
value-based
sponsorships,
because
we've
heard
from
our
sponsors
that
they
that
gives
them
something
more
tangible
to
sponsor,
and
so
this
is
we're
sort
of
in
a
halfway
stage
at
the
moment.
So
thank
you
to
fastly
for
picking
up
one
of
our
new
value-based
ones.
F
And
thank
you
to
the
equipment,
sponsors
people.
Don't
really
know
this,
that
much
but
cisco
in
particular,
and
juniper
as
well
dedicate
sorry
donate
an
extraordinary
amount
of
equipment
to
us.
The
list
price
is
mind-boggling,
and
without
that
we
simply
couldn't
afford
to
run
the
meetings
and
there's
a
way
we
currently
do.
So.
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
F
F
We
had
over
the
weekend
the
code
sprint,
so
thank
you
to
the
volunteers
for
their
that
and
again
we'd
like
to
thank
the
knock
and
a
brief
apology.
That
last
time
when
we
thanked
the
knock,
the
affiliations
weren't
shown,
which
is
important
to
knock
members,
given
the
amount
of
time
that
their
employers
allow
them
to
spend
on
the
knock
activities
and
the
amount
that
they
support
them.
So
thank
you
very
much
to
all
the
loc
members
and
their
employers
as
well.
F
F
So
iatf110,
as
alyssa
said,
is
coming
up
on
the
8th
to
12th
of
march
2021
a
little
bit
earlier
in
the
month,
we'll
be
announcing
the
ietf
110
host
soon
when
the
contracts
are
finally
signed
and
we
have
more
contact
more
sponsorship
opportunities
available.
So
please
reach
out
if
you're
interested
in
one
of
those
next
slide.
Please
and
thank
you
to
all
of
our
global
hosts
so
that
you
know
our
global
hosts
sign
up
for
a
contract
with
us
generally
six
to
nine
years.
F
They
pay
us
annually
as
part
of
that,
and
then
they
host
a
meeting
generally
once
every
three
years
as
part
of
that,
so
their
support
to
us
is
where
a
significant
portion
of
money
comes
from.
Thank
you
very
much
to
cisco,
comcast,
ericsson,
huawei,
juniper,
nbc,
universal
and
nokia.
Thank
you
next
slide,
please
so
future
meeting
locations
and
venues.
F
This
is
looking
a
little
bit
sparse.
We're
not
showing
as
much
as
we
normally
do
here,
because
we've
we're
still
in
the
process
of
renegotiating
the
meeting
meetings
that
we've
moved
so
renegotiating
moving
bangkok
to
another
slot
and
moving
prague,
which
would
have
been
110
to
another
slot
as
well,
and
so
those
things
are
taking
a
bit
of
time.
So
for
the
moment
we
can
show
that
we
have
110
next
online
meeting.
F
Then
in
july
of
next
year
we
have
san
francisco
booked
where
hopefully
will
be
the
first
time
we'll
all
meet
again
in
person
and
then
at
the
end
of
the
year,
madrid,
which
is
of
course
a
rebooking
from
the
previous
cancellation
and
then
one
yet
not
not
yet
booked
in
asia,
but
you
can
guess
what
we're
aiming
to
do
there.
I
imagine
and
then
philadelphia
for
after
that.
F
So
my
registration
numbers
don't
quite
agree
with
elissa's.
We
take
them
at
slightly
different
times,
but
what
you
can
see
here
is
the
registration
numbers
compared
to
budget
and,
as
you
can
see,
we've
done
better
than
budget.
If
we
take
out
the
fee
waivers,
we've
done
like
100
plus
more
than
budget,
so
that's
been
very
useful
to
us
and
it
shows
that
we're
getting
reasonably
good
at
understanding.
How
many
people
we
think
will
attend
online
meetings
and
having
the
right
capacity
for
those
that
meetings
next
slide
please.
F
So
I'm
going
to
take
a
bit
of
time
just
to
give
you
some
final
remarks.
Now
I've
been
in
the
job
just
over
a
year
now
and
it's
been
a
particularly
eventful
job.
I've
met
many
of
you,
but
kovid
has
meant,
of
course,
hindered
that
and
I
I
think
the
effects
of
kovid
have
actually
been
quite
deep.
I'm
not
sure
we've
all
really
understood
just
how
deep
they
have.
F
I
think
we're
all
having
daily
stress
from
lockdowns
and
seeing
people
suffering,
but
we're
also
having
a
big
impact
from
a
lack
of
in-person
meetings.
One
of
the
the
in
one
of
the
effects
of
that
is,
I
think
we
all
get
quite
focused
and
quite
serious,
because
we
don't
give
ourselves
enough
time
for
human
interactions
and
clearly
the
meetings
don't
have
the
same
energy
as
in-person
meetings
do
where
we
don't
have
the
sort
of
side
chats.
F
We
don't
have
the
social
side
of
it
and
those
things,
and
I
think
it's
quite
clear
that
everyone's
finding
it
increasingly
hard
and
we're
all
really
looking
forward
to
meeting
in
person,
and
certainly
that's
what
the
people
are
telling
me,
what
the
stats
are
showing
another
big
event
and
to
be
changed.
This
year
has
been
the
ramping
up
of
activity
from
the
llc.
F
We
have,
as
you've,
seen
initiated
multiple
surveys
to
provide
evidence
for
decision
making.
There
have
been
multiple
consultations
or
new
policies.
Some
of
those
have
had
some
initial
missteps
that
have
needed
correction,
but
generally,
that
feel
that's
worked
well
now.
Much
of
this
was
to
meet
our
compliance
obligations
either
to
isoc
and
or
the
law,
but
we
do
understand
that
this
sort
of
feels
very
corporate,
but
I
just
want
you
all
to
be
sure
that
this
is
not
a
shift
in
focus
to
us.
F
So
I
want
to
assure
you
all
that
the
llc
is
fully
committed
to
treating
everyone
that
contributes
to
the
itf,
whatever
their
role
with
respect
and
as
people
not
as
disposable
resources.
It's
a
very
clear
focus
of
us.
I
also
want
to
assure
you
that
we're
not
hiding
disputes
and
tensions
behind
the
scenes.
F
F
It's
absolutely
clear
that
a
volunteer-driven
ietf,
including
the
key
operational
areas
of
the
tools
and
the
knock,
is
the
best
way
forward.
You
know,
volunteers
bring
a
real
passion
for
the
work.
There's
a
an
unmatched
breadth
of
ex
breadth
of
expertise
within
the
itf
and
volunteers,
bring
an
incredible
diversity
of
solutions.
You
know,
as
we've
seen
so
much
of
what
the
iitf
has
has
been
built
by
a
volunteer
who
thought
the
itf
needed
it
or
could
that
it
fixed
the
problem,
and
so
I
want
to
be
quite
clear.
F
F
H
H
C
G
G
G
If
you
did,
we
have
a
section
where
we
take
a
q,
a
at
the
end
of
the
open
sessions,
and
we
try
to
publish
our
agendas
well
in
advance,
and
you
know
we
are
adaptive
to
any
new
subjects
that
come
up
and
and
add
them
dynamically
to
the
end
of
the
agenda
as
well
if
needed.
So
these
are
the
upcoming
meetings.
Next
one
is
on
10th
of
december
next
slide.
Please.
G
So
before
I
get
into
the
recent
board
work
completed,
I
think
it's
important
to
go
back
and
just
level
set.
You
know
what
does
the
ietflc
do
and
I
always
recommend
referring
back
to
rfc8711
and
the
responsibilities
that
are
laid
out.
There
are
really
five
things,
four
of
the
key
things
and
then
one
on
the
side.
The
four
key
things
are:
maintaining
the
operations
meeting
and
non-meeting
operations
of
the
itf,
so
basically
keeping
the
lights
on
making
sure
that
you
know.
G
Events
like
this
come
off
all
right:
two,
managing
the
finances
of
the
organization,
three
fundraising
on
behalf
of
the
organization
and
four
compliance.
So
compliance
with
you
know
relevant
tax
and
other
laws
and
regulations
and
so
on,
and
then
the
last
side
thing
which
is
not
in
that
bulleted
list
of
responsibilities,
is
to
address
a
lot
of
the
design
recommendations
that
arose
during
the
asset,
2
process
and
so
there's
another
draft.
G
G
Probably
the
first
here
is
our
most
important
activity.
I've
personally
spent
most
of
this
year
focused
on
this
one
issue,
because
it's
incredibly
strategic-
and
that
is
the
continuation
of
the
process
of
working
with
isoc,
to
renew
their
financial
commitment
to
the
ietf,
and
those
of
you
may
recall
that
when
the
llc
was
formed,
there
was
an
initial
agreement
with
isoc
to
provide
two
years
of
funding
and
that
funding
ends
at
the
end
of
this
calendar
year,
and
so
without
that
financial
lifeline.
G
We
would
obviously
have
a
significant
financial
issue
in
operating
the
llc
and
they're
for
the
ietf,
and
so
we've
spent
a
great
deal
of
time
working
through
with
isoc
and
their
board.
How
we
should
move
forward
together,
and
we
expect
to
have
an
announcement
within
the
next
couple
of
weeks.
So
that
is
moving
to
a
good
conclusion.
G
It
was
really
an
update
of
prior
guidance
that
we
had
provided,
but
there
were
some
questions
from
the
community
about
that,
and
so
we
provided
a
clarification
but,
like
I
said,
there's
been
a
significant
amount
focused
on
one
and
two
and
then
of
course,
obviously
as
you'll
see,
I
think
on
the
next
slide.
If
you
can
move
one
ahead,
focused
on
the
ongoing
effects
of
the
coronavirus,
so
the
inability
to
meet
having
to
deal
with
cancellation
of
contracts
or
calling
of
clauses
for
rescheduling
or
working
with
insurance
companies
on
claims
and
so
on.
G
You
know
material
financial
problem
as
an
organization
we
have
in
the
forecast
budget.
You
know
some
losses
here,
we're
pending
some
insurance
claims
related
to
the
cancelled
meetings,
and
thank
goodness
that
we
had
some
of
those
insurances
in
the
first
place.
But
the
good
news
is
that
you
know
we
are
not
facing
a
massive
financial
crisis.
G
As
a
result
of
our
inability
to
meet
in
person
and
we've
been
able
to
very
quickly
pivot
to
online
meetings
and
have
some
reduced
fees
as
a
result
of
them
and
and
maintain
sponsorships
from
a
lot
of
generous
sponsors
that
have
been
with
us
for
years
as
well
as
new
ones,
and
so
I
think
it's
very
important
to
reflect
that.
We've
done
well,
given
all
of
this
tremendous
uncertainty-
and
you
know
from
a
financial
standpoint
and
that
you
know
we
are
in
a
better
position.
G
Here
are
all
the
ways
to
reach
us.
These
are
also
on
our
webpages,
nothing
new
here
and
feel
free
to
reach
out
at
any
time.
As
I
said
in
terms
of
the
meetings,
we
encourage
folks
to
join
meetings
and
ask
questions,
share
feedback,
etc.
At
the
same
time,
encourage
people
to
send
us
email.
We
almost
never
receive
email
from
folks
in
the
community
with
questions
or
feedback,
and
we
certainly
request
that
and
encourage
it
next
line.
G
A
I
I
It
turned
out
that
a
single
protocol
could
work
for
both
communities
and,
as
a
result,
rsa
data
security
gave
change
control
of
the
s
mime
specification
to
the
itf.
To
make
that
happen,
I
ended
up
chairing
that
working
group
and
jim
was
very
active
in
the
working
group
and
he
implemented
s
mime
in
microsoft.
Outlook.
I
I
I
I
Whenever
I
worked
with
jim
on
a
technical
specification,
he
was
always
very
polite
in
highlighting
my
mistakes
and
it's
not
because
he
was
trying
to
you
know
show
that
he
was
smarter
than
anyone
else.
He
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
the
specification
was
right
and
he
was
always
very
generous
with
his
time
and
his
knowledge.
I
I
So
that's
the
kind
of
thing
that
jim
did
all
the
time.
Jim
was
born
the
same
year
that
I
was
in
1959
and
the
first
ietf
in
2019.
We
got
together
and
just
had
dinner
and
said
you
know.
Congratulations.
We
had
both
in
earlier
years
had
some
health
issues
and
we
believe
they
were
behind
us
and
we
were
basically
just
toasting
good
health
and
getting
together
at
the
ietfs,
and
it
was
very,
very
nice
to
have
done
that.
I
I
A
A
A
K
I'm
speechless.
Thank
you
very
much
iso.
Thank
you
very
much
internet
society
for
everything
here
we
have
a
lot
of
balloons,
a
lot
of
things
and
also
this
crystal
ball.
So
thank
you
very
much
so
indra
society.
It
is
an
honor
to
receive
the
highest
and
priceless
acknowledgement
given
to
indonesia
from
the
internet
society.
K
So
thank
you
also
to
the
ministry
of
ict
of
indonesia.
To
be
honest,
all
start
with
modified,
simple,
off-the-shelf
gadget
and
equipment.
Using
this
equipment,
one
may
fulfill
the
right
to
access
information
and
knowledge,
which
is
the
necessary
foundation
for
any
nation
to
move
forward.
As
you
can
see
in
the
picture
previously,
we
can
use
very
simple
equipment
to
build.
The
internet.
Isok
has
acknowledged.
The
approach
is
one:
maybe
one
of
the
right
routes,
good
towards
the
internet,
for
all
the
job.
K
L
Proud
and
excited
to
hear
that
dr
kurbo
is
being
awarded
the
s-team
jonathan
b
postal
service
award.
I
know
dr
purple
by
reputation
of
which
he
is
known
for
his
humility
and
numerous
personality,
as
well
as
his
outstanding
contribution
to
the
technological
development
of
the
internet.
His
contribution
to
the
digital
sector
is
invaluable.
M
O
N
O
P
R
L
S
A
A
So
we
are
going
to
start
with
the
iesg
and
we
are
not
going
to
go
around
and
introduce
ourselves
due
to
audio
switching
difficulties.
But
you
can
see
all
of
us
there
according
to
area
and
all
of
our
names,
and
I
think
we
will
be
having
everybody
join
us
on
video.
We're
going
to
attempt
to
to
have
the
full
ihd,
join
us
on
video,
so
come
on
up
and
we
will
kill
the.
A
A
A
T
I
just
wanted
to
say
thanks
to
the
iesg
for
putting
up
a
vulnerability
disclosure
policy
or
looking
to
do
that
very
soon.
I
saw
the
comments
on
the
list
and
I
just
think
it's
a
really
positive
step
forward
for
the
ietf
to
formalize
the
policy
and
have
something
public
and-
and
it's
really
good
to
see.
So.
Thank
you.
U
G
V
W
X
With
that,
I
also
want
to
thank
you
for
iab
open,
but
I
have
a
constructive
suggestion
and
that
is
that
perhaps
an
hour
is
not
enough.
I
found
the
question
and
answer
session
at
the
end.
Really
productive,
really
useful,
and
I
also
felt
like
it
was
cut
short
for
a
little
bit,
so
perhaps
scheduling
it
in
march
or
a
little
longer
might
be
helpful
thanks.
C
Y
C
Y
F
F
The
there
is
a
plan
that
the
tools
team
have
for
migrating
various
sets
of
services
off
that,
and
then,
when
there
are
more
things,
then
that
need
to
be
discussed
for
us
to
understand
where
they
go.
While
henrik
is
stepping
back
from
being
a
developer,
he
very
much
intends
to
carry
on
with
tools
and
itf.org,
so
we're
not
expecting
a
any
kind
of
problem
there.
F
B
I
think
we've
had
some
really
good
discussions
lately
about
the
ongoing
funding
of
the
ietf,
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
thank
the
the
is
the
llc
board
for
doing
a
really
good
job
of
that
financial
stewardship
and
presenting
a
clear
story
for
for
isaac
to
understand
and
for
the
community
to
understand.
So
thanks.
H
Morning
afternoon
evening
night,
can
you
hear
me
just
right
cool?
I
wanted
to
ask
a
question
about
bespoke
tools.
I've
noticed
in
itf.
We
have
a
lot
of
tools
that
are
very
custom,
built
and
specific
to
what
we
do
and-
and
I
understand
the
impulse
like
I've
built
a
bunch
of
like
not
at
itf
but
for
in
other
things
like
custom
tools,
myself
and
it's
very
tempting
to
kind
of
think
that
you're,
a
special
snowflake
and
nothing
fits
your
needs
just
quite
right.
H
So
you
need
to
build
something
custom,
but
the
problem
is
something.
Custom
will
never
reach
the
economies
of
scale
that,
like
a
big
provider
of
something
else,
can
do-
and
I
would
kind
of
like
to
ask
you
the
question
of
like.
Are
we
making
the
right
call
here?
Take
tools.itf.org
the
main
place
that
people
use
to
read,
drafts
and
rfcs.
H
It
takes
seconds
to
load
a
draft
which
I
still
don't
understand
how
that's
possible,
or
if
you
take
meat
echo
compared
to
other
vc
solutions
we
had
so
I
was
sharing
with
transport.
On
monday
we
had
a
like
11
minute
outage,
maybe
open.
We
had
a
five
minute
like
they
don't
quite
work
as
well
as
more
commonplace
things,
and
I
just
wanted
to
ask
the
question
of.
Is
this.
H
F
So,
david,
I
think
that
your
your
question
is
conflating
a
number
of
things
there,
so
I'll
try
to
pull
them
apart
and
tackle
them.
First
of
all,
the
the
primary
assertion
in
your
statement
that
building
bespoke
tools
is
more
expensive
or
more
complex
than
taking
off
the
shelf
tools
is,
in
my
experience,
not
a
simple
assertion
by
any
means,
it
depends
on
the
complexity
of
your
business
processes,
the
maturity
of
the
industry
and
software
that's
available
to
you
and
various
other
things.
F
F
The
other
thing
that
perhaps
the
most
important
thing,
though,
is
that
our
tools
largely
are
volunteer
driven.
So
there
is
no
point
at
which
there
is
somebody
in
the
llc
sitting
here
saying:
no,
no,
we
need
to
get
rid
of
data
track
and
replace
it
with
salesforce.
That's
not
the
way
that
it's
worked.
It's
been,
the
volunteers
have
driven
the
development
of
things
and
the
way
things
go.
Secondly,
I
think
the
one
next
some
of
the
things
about
performance.
F
Certainly,
I
think
there
are
definitely
some
regular
complaints
about
that,
and
that
is
something
that
we
don't
yet
have
the
the
monitoring
in
place
to
be
able
to
tell
and
their
work
is
necessary
to
look
at
those.
So
that's
there's
definitely
an
issue
there.
The
the
tools
team
will
know
more
about
that
and
then
finally,
about
meet
echo.
F
Oh
sorry,
the
other
thing
is
that
we
expect
it
to
run
on
ipv6,
and
so
we
are
running
it
on
on
different
cloud
platforms.
Having
moved
cloud
platforms,
ask
them
to
move
cloud
platforms
in
order
to
improve
the
ipv6
capability
of
it.
So,
in
a
context
where
we
are
making
demanding
so
many
changes
and
getting
so
many
changes,
there
is
inevitably
going
to
be
some
fluctuations
in
things
it
takes
a
while
for
these
things
to
settle
down
and
these
things
to
put
in
place.
F
But
we
have
to
make
the
trade-off
of
whether
we
want
something
that
is
so
well
designed
for
our
needs
or
whether
we
want
something
that
is
entirely
off
the
shelf
and
you
know
works
differently
and
one
what
other?
Just
a
final
point
here,
so
you
want
to
say
something
is
that
I
think
that
we
are
judging
some
many
people
are
judging
meat
echo
by
a
different
standard
to
the
way
they
would
judge
something
else
that
you
know
we
would
not
expect
the
zoom
or
someone
like
that
to
make
a
customization
for
us.
F
We
were
not
being
up
in
arms
in
zoom.
If
something
were
five
pixels
to
the
right
or
something
was
using
a
slight.
You
know
phrasing
that
wasn't
quite
right
or
we
weren't
happy
about,
but
because
we
have
worked
with
me,
taco
so
long
because
they
make
so
many
changes
to
things
we
have
had
quite
no,
we
have
people
expecting
things
from
them
that
perhaps
goes
a
bit
beyond
what
that's
possible.
So
look!
So
that's
a
broad
answer
to
quite
a
complex
question.
I
think.
G
Let
me
just
add
to
that.
Thank
you
so
much
one
sec
if
I
could
just
add
to
that.
Oh
of
course,
please
do
with
other
observations.
One
would
be.
We
certainly
heard
in
the
process
of
discussing
with
isoc
with
the
internet
society
about
funding
the
concern
over
bespoke
or
legacy,
or
you
know,
non-performing
tools
come
up
as
a
regular
concern.
G
It
came
up
a
number
of
times
from
their
board
and
their
community,
and
so
you
know
that
was
a
part
of
that
discussion
and
at
the
same
time,
in
a
lot
of
the
iasa
2
formation
documents,
you
can
see
in
the
design
requirements
document
a
specific
section
about
tools
and
sort
of
technical
platforms.
I
think
more
generally
and
it
talks
about
that.
G
The
tension
between
the
bespoke
you
know
sort
of
created
tools
and
and
the
more
mainstream,
scalable
or
publicly
supported
ones,
and
I
think
that
that's
a
natural
tension
and
as
the
organization
itf
matures
it's
natural
for
the
community
to
ask
those
questions.
Ultimately,
it's
for
the
community
to
make
those
decisions,
and
we
are
here
to
support
and
then
execute
whatever
the
direction
the
community
wants
to
go
in.
So
if
the
community
got
together
and
decided,
we
wanted
to
move
from
one
particular
technology
to
another.
G
H
H
Many
of
that
and
I'm
definitely
not
advocating
oh,
go
pick
the
one
that's
made
by
another
part
of
my
employer's
company,
but
there
are
many
of
them
out
there
that
do
this,
and
that
do
this.
Well,
then,
so
on
the
community
point
I
totally
agree,
I'm
not
saying
well
go,
do
something,
I'm
just
asking
the
question,
and
so
maybe
I
guess
that
is
what
I'm
asking.
Let's
ask
the
community
and
then
just
the
final
point
I'll
make.
H
Is
I
totally
agree
of
jay
that
it
is
a
trade-off
where,
on
one
hand,
we
have
the
bespoke
tools
where
we
can
ask
for
specific
features?
That's
true
like
if
you
go
to
one
of
these
big
providers
and
ask
for
the
something
completely
its
with
everything
that
no
one
else
would
ever
want.
They're,
probably
not
going
to
build
it.
H
My
personal
take
is
that,
while
these
itf
specific
features
are
nice
they're
not
as
important
as
reliability
in
my
personal
experience,
and
so
like,
for
example,
sharing
a
session
having
the
ability
to
have
these.
Like
the
raise
your
hand,
tool
was
cute
and
actually
other
providers
have
that
it
was
the
like
virtual
hunting
tool.
That
was
cute.
But
I
would
personally
much
prefer
to
have
a
session
an
entire
two-hour
meeting,
where
we
can
have
a
meeting
as
opposed
to
having
to
reconnect
audio
multiple
times
and
having
it
drop
off
completely
as
there.
H
A
Can
I
just
add
one
thing
I
was
struggling
with
mute
button
earlier
just
that
I
think
on
this
point
about
the
community
discussion.
I
think
this
works
the
best
when
there's
like
principal
level,
guidance
from
the
community.
I
think,
having
the
you
know,
the
community,
like
pick
very
specific
tools,
is,
doesn't
really
give
us
the
ability
to
evolve
at
the
pace
at
which
we
would
want
to
in
order
to
meet
people's
expectations.
A
So
I
think,
like
some
framework
that
that
gives
the
principal
level
guidance
around
this
set
of
trade-offs
would
be
quite
useful,
and
I
encourage
people
to
to
bring
that
to
shmoo
for
the
remote
participation
piece.
I
guess
that's
totally
within
scope
of
the
charter,
but
but
you
know
trying
to
do
this
like
tool
by
tool.
Is
it's
just
a
rattle?
So
that's
my
my
plea
for.
H
A
V
Hi
well
two
things.
Firstly,
I
just
wanted
to
say
to
jay-
and
I
put
this
in
the
chat
earlier
thanks
for
covering
some
of
the
human
aspects
in
your
earlier
comments.
That
was
very
welcome
to
see.
So
thank
you
for
that,
and
then
I
was
going
to
comment
anyway,
as
it
happens
on
meat
echo
just
really
to
complement
the
meat,
echo
team
and
how
they've
evolved
the
tool
since
ietf
108
and
maybe
to
balance
david's
comments
from
my
recollection
of
atf
107.
V
Although
I
didn't
have
any
issues
with
webex,
a
hell
of
a
lot
of
people
did
in
the
use
of
that
continuously
through
the
week.
So
I
I
think,
given
the
wide
variety
of
platforms
and
devices
and
things
that
people
use,
some
people
will
inevitably
have
problems.
Whatever
choice
of
conferencing
platform
to
my
experience,
meet
echo
is
the
best
of
the
mainstream
platforms
that
I've
seen
work
really
well
at
ripe.
V
AA
So
I
I
I
think
the
answer
was
not
really.
I
think
it
was
a
little
disingenuous
and
I
think
it
comes
back
to
things
like.
Is
this
volunteer
driven
or
is
this
actually
community
driven,
or
is
this
driven
by
j
making
a
decision-
and
I
understand
that's
a
complicated
blend
of
all
those
things,
but
statements
like
the
data
tracker
was
community.
AA
Driven
is
just
simply
not
true,
I
mean
no,
it
was
a
group
wrote
a
contract
and
yes,
some
volunteers
wrote
it
and
and
whatever,
but
it
didn't
work
that
way
and
around
the
selection
of
these
tools
as
well.
I
do
not
feel
as
a
community
member
that
really
that
is,
you
know.
Yes,
maybe
we
gave
some
broad
input,
but
I
don't
believe
I
believe
this
is
decision
this
group's
making.
I
don't
think
it's
making
a
good
decision.
AA
I
think
we
should
be
measuring
these
tools
by
the
ability
to
get
the
job
done
that
we're
here
to
do,
and
we
don't
you
know,
the
voting
tool
could
easily
be
separated
out
into
something
else.
Every
single
one
of
the
major
conference
inventors
has
apis
and
plugins
to
adopt
them
and
modify
their
environments
into
different
things,
but
we
don't
use
them.
The
statements
about
xmpp,
webrtc
ipv6
are
categorically
all
wrong.
AA
It
reflects
not
really
a
deep
understanding
of
what
these
services
are,
or
even
having
looked
at
them.
So
I
I
think
that
we
should
revisit
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish
with
these
tools
whether
the
tools
met
our
needs.
Well.
This
week,
I
every
single
meeting
I've
been
in
this
week
has
had
people
not
be
able
to
contribute
at
some
point
due
to
meat
echo
problems.
It
has
reliability
that
is
so
low.
It's
almost
unmeasurable
this
week,
yeah.
I
talk
about.
AB
AB
AB
They
said
we
restarted
the
server
and
everything
just
worked.
Fine
and
I
posted
them
a
screenshot
showing
that
I
had
duplicate
copies
of
the
slides,
duplicate,
copies
of
everyone's
videos,
and
they
said
just
refresh
your
browser.
That's
not
really
a
reliable
solution
to
everything,
particularly
given
that
I'm
given
a
situation
that
says
I'm
at
the
top
of
the
list
that
I'm
in
the
queue,
but
according
to
everyone
else,
I'm
not
in
the
queue.
AB
G
F
Yeah,
so
I,
while
I
understand
that
there
are
people
who
have
some
strong
problems
with
this,
I
do
not
think
that
the
llc
can
respond
by
simply
changing
the
tool.
Based
on
that,
I
don't
think
it
is
within
the
llc's
remit
to
do
that.
There
has
to
be
a
community
process
that
tells
us
what
are
the
things
that
you
think
are
important.
F
F
Nor
do
I
think
the
history
is
potentially
relevant,
but
we
are
in
this
place
now
and
in
order
to
move
from
this
place,
we
need
a
proper
process
to
do
that
and
I
don't
think
unfortunately
well
I
don't
want
to
be
rude
about
it,
but
a
level
of
complaint
is
not
sufficient
for
us
to
be
able
to
do
that
because
it
is
such
a
not
quite
arbitrary,
but
it
is
a
personal
point
of
view
that
others
disagree
with
strongly.
So
we
need
to
go
through
a
rational
process
to
get
there.
G
So
I'll
just
add
on
to
what
jay's
saying
you
know.
Clearly
we
have
the
ability
to
help
facilitate
that
sort
of
process
and
there's
also
the
schmoe
working
group.
So
I
suspect
that
we
can
sort
out
ways
to
you
know
help
have
this
conversation
as
we
move
into
next
year
and
we've
certainly
learned
a
lot
more
about
our
reliance
on
these
tools,
as
we've
only
been
able
to
meet
online.
So
that's
helpful.
A
U
G
G
G
G
G
AB
Pop
back
on,
I
see
him
on
the
the
other
video
camera
now
because
mateco
didn't,
let
me
select
the
one
I
wanted.
That's
okay.
Reliability
is
much
more
important
than
a
lot
of
things
and
I
think
what
we've
found
is
that
we
have
not
had
reliability
at
this
meeting
for
pretty
much
any
session.
I've
been
quite
lucky
in
the
ones
I've
hosted,
thankfully,
but
I've
attended
a
lot
of
sessions
that
have
had
a
lot
of
problems.
AB
I
think
that
is
a
serious
consideration.
It's
a
thousand
people's
time,
that's
being
wasted.
If
something
goes
down
and
I
think
reliability
needs
to
be
a
more
important
consideration
than
even
using
specific
standards.
Using
specific
standards
is
nice,
but
working
is
really
really
important
and
I
think
we
don't
give
that
enough
consideration,
and
I
I
think
the
customization
is
nice,
but
reliability
and
consistency
is
significantly
more
important.
AB
There
are
a
lot
of
things
I
like
about
medeco,
but
the
reliability
of
the
tech
stack
is
is
really
important
for
a
conference
of
this
size,
and
I
think
we
need
to
focus
on
that
above
for
specific
technologies
and
specific
features
that
that
we
think
might
be
nice.
That
was
my
main
point.
Actually
what
I
was
in
the
q4
was
to
talk
about
something
completely
different,
which
is
that
I
have
had
a
couple
of
occasions
where
people
have
come
to
me
saying
I
want
to
bring
this
work
to
the
ietf.
AB
AB
That's
quite
frustrating
yeah.
So
I
think
that
that
area
of
tools
is
quite
difficult.
We
have
a
very
large
barrier
of
entry
still
in
our
document
creation
tool
chain
and
I
think
that's
a
significant
barrier
to
new
people
coming
to
the
ietf
to
understand
how
to
generate
a
document,
and
we
should
be
looking
at
that
as
much
as
this
is
an
issue
for
for
those
of
us
who
already
kind
of
know
what
we're
doing
three
times
a
year.
AB
G
Now,
thank
you
very
much
for
that
feedback.
I
think
we've
heard
the
same.
Obviously,
jay
has
a
survey
out
about
some
of
the
tools
and
work
processes
and
that's
helpful.
We
heard
this
as
a
point
raised
from
the
isoc
board
when
we
were
going
through
funding
discussions,
particularly
as
as
you
noted,
in
the
context
of
new
participants
and
it
being
a
barrier
to
entry,
especially
when
someone
might
be
making
a
decision
between
say,
participating
in
an
open
source
community
or
some
other
standards
organization
and
the
barrier
can
be
high.
So
we
understand.
AB
AB
Z
So
I
I
bronze
a
number
of
things
that
I
would
oh
and
maybe
I
could
have
video
braun
said
a
number
of
things
that
I
agree
with.
So
I
have
a
few
points
I'd
like
to
make,
but
I
will
do
it
briefly.
First,
I
don't
think
that
any
of
the
tools
we
currently
have
were
in
fact
selected
by
the
community.
They
were
selected
in
a
bunch
of
ad
hoc
fashions
by
you,
know
leadership
at
the
time.
That's
not
necessarily
bad.
Z
I
think
in
fact,
that's
the
structure.
That's
some
other
structure
we
should
have
now,
which
is
the
community,
gives
guidance
on
what
we're
trying
to
achieve,
but
the
llc
should
be
empowered
to
decide
the
kind
of
question
of
what
tools
we
actually
use,
and
so
you
know
we
should
tell
you
what
the
priorities
are
and
then
you
should
decide
which
video
conferencing
tool
or
whatever
we
use.
So
I
certainly
don't
think
to
ask
the
community
should
we
use
medico
or
meet
or
zoom
or
whatever,
contrary
to
ask
us
what
our
priorities
are.
Z
So
I
think
it's
and
I
think
that,
and
I
I
also
don't
think
that
we
should.
We
have
to
wait.
You
know
two
years
for
a
long
community
effort
for
you
for
you
to
consider
reconsider
the
tool
chain.
You
should
be
the
best.
We
have
the
circumstances
so
second,
which
isn't
to
advocate
for
any
particular
outcome.
Second,
you
know
in
terms
of
the
hierarchy
of
needs
here.
Z
The
most
important
thing
is
to
get
the
job
done,
and
that
means
having
things
that
work
reliably
and
unpredictably
and
and
customization
is,
I
think,
on
top
of
that,
you
know,
people
all
across
the
world.
Do
video
conferencing
or
other
things
like
this
without
any
kind
of
customized
tooling,
and
so
you
know
so
so
so
while
hospitality
is
nice
is
not
in
fact
the
most
important.
The
most
important
thing
is
things
work.
Z
You
know
I
work
for
an
organization
which,
like
is
a
software
development
organization,
and
yet
we've
increasingly
moved
towards
having
commodity
tools,
because
it's
simply
so
expensive
to
maintain
our
own
independent
tool
chains
of
things
when
compared
to
the
tools
that
you
get
off
the
shelf
that
were
relatively
good,
even
though,
as
I
said,
we're
not
as
well
customized
and
built
into
our
our
our
structures
and
functions
as
one
might
have
liked.
Next,
why
do
you
think
it's
important
to
be
able
to
eat
around
dog
food?
Z
I
think
we
have
a
tendency
to
go
overboard
here.
You
know,
while
it
would
be
nice
to
have
you
know
every
tool
we
use
support
ever
every
latest
protocol
that
we
designed.
I
don't
think
that's
the
most
important
thing
once
again.
The
most
important
thing
is
to
use
tools
to
let
us
get
the
job
done
with
all.
That
said,
there
are
a
number
of
webrtc
based
video
conferencing
tools.
Z
G
You
thanks
ecker
and
I
think
I'm
hearing
for
you
definitely
themes
of
focusing
on
reliability
and
productivity
and
the
tooling-
and
you
know,
certainly
we
have
heard
in
the
past
that
maybe
at
the
time
that
some
aspects
of
the
tool
chain
were
created,
that
there
were
no,
you
know
other
alternatives
or
substitutes,
and
so
things
had
to
be
developed.
But
that
may
not
be
the
case
any
longer.
Given
your
example.
AD
Hi
yeah
so
with
respect
to
meat,
echo
and
the
tooling,
so
I
think
it's
it's
really
been.
I
think
a
great
you
know
history
of
us,
you
know
doing
our
own
eating
our
own
dog
food
and
developing
our
own
tooling,
and
I
think
the
same
should
continue
to
be
done
for
our
you
know,
conference
meeting
experience
right,
and
so
it
would
be
bad
to
go
to
a
model
where
we're
only
you
know
buying
services.
AD
The
other
point
I
wanted
to
quickly
bring
up-
and
I
hope
this
is
the
right
place
here
with
respect
to
the
timing
of
the
meeting,
I
think
it's
it
was
a
mistake
to
think
that
you
know
using
a
time
local
to
a
place.
We
don't
go
to
is
a
good
thing
if
everybody
is
working
in
their
own
time
zone
and
the
majority
of
the
participants
will
likely
be
working
between.
You
know
midnight
and
6
a.m
in
the
morning.
AD
If
we
were
to
go
on
longer
with
the
virtualized
meetings,
I
guess
that
would
be
easy
to
fix
and
avoid
the
timing
that
we
had
this
time.
I
think
it'll
be
a
lot
more
difficult
when
we
go
over,
hopefully
to
a
longer
term,
that's
going
to
be
a
lot
more
hybrid,
hopefully
having
a
lot
more
people
continuing
to
attend
virtual
instead
of
unnecessarily
traveling,
but
also
having
a
traveling
audience.
AE
So
my
understanding
is
that
mostly
thanks
to
ray
pelletier,
we
had
pandemic
insurance
up
through
the
end
of
this
year
for
our
in-person
meetings,
but
we
could
not
get
that
you
know
going
forward.
So
are
we
at
all
worried
about
any
risks
that
you
know
there
might
be
something
that
happens
and
we
end
up
significantly
in
the
hole
financially.
F
F
We
know
with
the
madrid
meeting
that
it
is
possible
to
move
it
because
we
moved
it
once
already
with
them
and
they
were
good
about
that.
San
francisco
one
is
not
so
clear
for
us
yet
so
the
answer
is
there
is
a
risk
to
us.
It
is
problematic
to
quantify
the
level
of
the
risk.
At
the
moment.
The
booking
of
san
francisco
significantly
predates
these
things,
but
the
pandemic
insurance
was
only
ever
bought
a
year
in
advance
and
it's
fantastic
insurance.
Very
few
people
had
it.
F
G
G
You
know
when
you
know
the
world
will
sort
of
go
back
to
some
definition
of
normal
and
you
know
we'll
do
the
best
we
can
to
manage
and
push
out
as
far
into
the
future
as
we
can
those
decisions
but
depending
upon
the
venue
in
the
hotel
and
so
on.
Some
of
those
decisions
may
have
to
be
made
sooner
than
later,
but
it
varies
by
location,
but
we'll
see
it's
a
lot
of
uncertainty
but
everyone's
facing
it.
So
thank
you.
AF
Further
further
comments
on
this
is
from
me
is
yes,
the
experience
of
rely.
Her
unreliability
of
meat
echo
this
time
has
been
really
a
bad
surprise
to
me,
after
a
very
good
experience,
I
think
in
the
previous
meeting,
including
more
observation
of
the
meet
echo
team,
communicating
with
the
ongoing
conference.
AF
AF
I
didn't
feel
very
nice
about
that
service,
but
kind
of
that's
all
stuff,
that's
there
and
for
this
community,
I'm
kind
of
also
a
little
bit
irritated
about
the
way
we
are
discussing
this
because
in
a
community
like
this,
I
would
actually
expect
that
people
are
would
be
asking
for
well,
okay,
where
do
we
get
the
report
about
what's
happening
and
what
what
what
has
happened?
I
observed
that
in
this
plenary
session
we
did
not
have
any
slide.
G
A
Sorry
can
I
just
respond
on
the
first
point
yeah,
so
I
had
suggested
to
henrik
that
we
would
recognize
him
at
this
plenary
and
he
said
he
didn't
want
to
do
that.
He
wanted
to
wait
for
an
in-person
meeting,
and
so
that's
why
we
didn't
do
it
at
this
meeting,
but
certainly
he
deserves
a
ton
of
recognition
from
the
community
and
hopefully
that
can
take
place
at
a
later
date.
So
just
wanted
people
to
be
aware
of
that.
It
wasn't
and
oversight.
It
was
by
design
thanks,
tommy.
AC
All
right,
thank
you
just
I'll,
be
brief,
but
jay.
I
wanted
to
respond
to
a
comment
that
you
made
earlier
about
the
fact
that
there
are
people
who
do
feel
strongly
about
tools
like
media
in
both
positive
and
negative
ways.
So,
while
I
think
it
is
fine
to
have
community
feedback
for
these
long-term
decisions
about
tooling,
I
disagree
that
it's
a
matter
of
opinion
to
weigh
some
people
having
good
experiences
with
like
the
very
factual
problems
that
we've
been
having
this
week
with
meat.
AC
We
don't
have
another
option,
it's
kind
of
an
emergency
situation
where
it's
not
acceptable
to
just
say
we're
going
to
use
the
status
quo
if
it's
actually
harming
people's
ability
to
participate
and
we've
been
seeing
that
every
day
this
week,
and
so
I
think
yes,
let's
start
a
long-term
conversation-
whole
community
about
tooling,
let's
figure
out
how
to
make
sure
that
mute.
Echo
and
other
tools
like
that
are
scaling
well,
but
we
can
have
a
temporary
solution
like
what
we
did
last
march
to
say.
AC
You
know
we
just
need
just
to
put
something
in
place
to
make
sure
that
we
have
a
backup
system,
at
least
to
ensure
that
ietf110
will
be
successful
and
like
that
should
be
our
priority
for
now.
While
we
have
these
other
discussions,
but
let's
make
sure
that
people
are
not
going
to
be
excluded
or
that
our
work
is
being
harmed.
AG
To
torrelis
is
comment
and
speak
up
for
for
the
people
in
the
east
asian
and
asia-pacific
time
zones
I'm
in
japan,
so
it's
8
p.m.
Now
it's
really
nice
to
have
the
ietf
meeting
not
be
in
the
middle
of
the
night,
we're
going
to
be
in
a
hybrid
environment
where
a
lot
of
the
meetings
actually
take
place
year-round
in
a
virtual
fashion.
AG
I
think
it's
entirely
reasonable
to
continue
to
hold
it
in
a
fashion
such
that
at
least
a
reasonable
fraction
of
the
meetings
are
actually
held
in
each
of
sort
of
the
major
regions
of
the
planet
being
in
japan.
I'm
sort
of
toward
the
eastern
end
of
this
bangkok
is
a
couple
of
hours
behind
us
and
if
you
go
two
hours
west
from
there,
you
get
to
india
two
or
two
and
a
half.
So
in
this
four
and
a
half
hour
time
zone
slot,
here
we
have
more
than
half
of
the
world's
population.
AG
I
realize
it's
substantially
less
than
half
of
the
total
participation
in
ietf,
but
if
you
don't
have
meetings
that
work
for
some
of
the
people
over
here,
you're
going
to
have
trouble
getting
the
actual
participation
you
want
from
this
half
of
the
planet,
that's
it
by
the
way.
I
actually
really
like
meat
echo
thumbs
up.
AG
AH
B
Yeah
I
just
wanted
to
really
briefly
re-emphasiz.
Am
I
sending
audio
there
we
go.
I
just
wanted
to
really
briefly
reemphasize
a
point
that
tommy
made
that
there
is
a
real
asymmetry
here
between.
I
was
struck
by
the
contrast
between
tommy's
point
and
rod's
point.
Tommy's
point
being.
I
can't
participate
because
of
something
and
rod's
point
being
I
like
this,
and
it
strikes
me
like
there's
a
real
asymmetry.
G
Thank
you
richard
and
I'll
just
note.
I
think
you
know
the
board
will
have
to
have
a
think
after
this
meeting
in
terms
of
some
of
our
takeaways,
but
it's
clear
that
a
theme
throughout
this
has
been
pertaining
to
the
reliability
and
need
for
productivity
of
the
the
tooling
to
support
online
meetings
and
so
we'll
need
to
circle
back
and
and
sort
out
a
way
that
we
can
move
forward
with
the
community.
AI
G
Now,
thanks
john
and
and
I
think,
an
excellent
point
in
terms
of
a
what
I
would
call
maybe
a
retrospective
or
after
action
report.
I
know
in
my
devops
teams
we
usually
preferred
not
to
call
it
a
postmortem
because
it
implied
that
patient
died
and
it
was
quite
morbid.
So
I
think
we've
got
enough
of
that
going
on
in
the
world
today,
we'll
focus
on
that
and
well
interaction
people,
but
it's
really
well
taken
to
to
do
a
deep
dive
to
understand.
G
You
know
how
did
how
was
each
tool
or
each
system
that
we
were
relying
on
performing?
What
were
the
detailed
issues
you
know?
Have
each
each
team
basically
do
root
cause
analysis,
the
same
stuff.
We
do
in
our
everyday
jobs
anyway,
so
I
think
that's
really
important
to
do,
and
it
can
probably
then
inform
any
potential
next
steps
that
you
know
the
community
may
want.
AJ
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
thank
the
people
on
the
llc
for
their
service,
because
I
note
that
much
of
this
discussion
three
years
ago
would
have
happened
during
the
isg
open
mic
and
that's
got
to
be
a
you
know.
Your
service
has
got
to
be
maybe
more
appreciated
by
the
isg
not
being
on
stage
for
this
than
that,
as
anybody
else,
and
when
you,
when
you
and
john,
were
talking
about
post
post-mortem.
G
I
know
that
I
know
previously.
I
didn't
see
people
in
the
queue
that
were
in
the
queue,
so
anyone
else
on
the
board
here,
seeing
folks
in
the
queue,
no
all
right.
In
that
case,
I
think
we
can
wrap
up
the
lc
open
mic
session.
Thank
you
very
much
for
all
of
your
feedback,
especially
all
of
the
feedback
pertaining
to
the
tools
and
systems
that
are
supporting
our
work.
This
week,
alyssa
you
were
sort
of
the
overall
mc.
I
guess
back
to
you.