Internet Society Internet Society (ISOC) Board of Trustees Meetings, 25 May 2022

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From YouTube: (English) ISOC Open Forum on Structures of Consultation Session 2

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Internet Society Board Open Forum on Structures of Consultation
Session 2
25 May 2022 (English)

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Ted hardie: thanks, everybody, for joining us.. This is the second section of the structures of consultation, open, forum.

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We really appreciate your taking the time to joining us today and we look forward to.

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The conversation. there are a couple of slides of housekeeping to go through before we start.

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On the next slide, please.

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The first is, please respect the code of conduct for the individual members of the internet.

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Society., I think you all agreed to that when you are signing up for this,, so that shouldn't be.

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A surprise. there's simultaneous interpretation available in english,, french and spanish,, and also closed.

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Captions available in english., you can select these options in the zoom panel and in the next slide we ll show you how to.

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Do that., please do keep your microphone on mute at all times, unless you are asking a question.

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If you do want to ask a question via audio,, please use the zoom tool to raise your hand.

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And we will see the hand in the participant list.

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If you prefer to use the chat for questions, type, it in the chat in english,, french or.

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Spanish,- and we will read it from there. note: if it's in french or spanish,, it will be translated.

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It would be appreciated if you could format questions with your first name and the country.

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For example, ted, portugal.

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Feel free to type in english,, french or spanish., the meeting is being recorded and there will be a link for future viewing shared after.

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The call. next slide, please.

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As we said, here is how you turn on the live transcript on the zoom panel.

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And how you turn on the interpretation.

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The next thing,, just as a quick reminder,, there were some constraints on the governance.

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Reform. Working group.-.

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When the charter was put together, there were some constraints, included.

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And among those were that the proposals considered by the working group should not include proposals.

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To reduce stakeholder communities, ability to choose candidates to serve on the board.

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Of trustees or proposals that would require relocation or disillusion of the internet.

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Society as it is currently incorporated in the united states.

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In addition,, the working group will not consider proposals that would breach or negate current.

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Legal relationships and agreements between the internet, society and icann, or between.

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The internet society and the public interest registry., just as a reminder,, the public interest registry or pir, is a supporting organization of the.

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Internet society.

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next slide, please., that's really it for housekeeping.

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and so,. The floor is open for conversation.

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Hans peter,: do you want to give a quick review of the governance reform working group just.

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To start us, out? hans, peter dittler:, yes,, sorry.,.

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Good morning, everybody.

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And welcome. good morning,, at least my time.

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good evening, good afternoon., the governance working group,. The governance reform working group received on the mailing.

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List from a bit over 100-200 participants.

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We are only a handful that are active, over roughly 112 topics,, which we are all included.

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In the report., which should be considered for reforming the isoc governance.

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In the end, out of them,, two most discussed,, most often brought forward topics were considered.

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For further study., which led to this two sessions, or two, two times, two sessions.

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The first one on diversity of the board,, which has been done, already,, three or four weeks.

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Ago. and this one about missing, communication, or broken communication between members.

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Between chapters. between all individual members and staff and the board.

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Which these two discussions yesterday and today are dedicated to.

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So today, this hour should bring forward topics, or looking at the better communication, or.

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Improved communication between staff, members, organizational members, chapters and the board.

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So I think, everything else can be written. -- can be seen in the written report.

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So please start with your comments and ideas.

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Ted hardie: thank you,, hans, peter.,.

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And, as I said, the floor is now open.

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Just as a reminder,, you are welcome, do raise your hand in the zoom, tool, or type your question.

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In the chat, in english,, french or spanish,, and we will read it out of the chat or the.

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Translation out of the chat- and we will go from there.

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either- is welcome.

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Hans peter dittler: okay, if nobody else is stepping forward, just my recollection.

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Of the communication, and that of isoc, which lasts back for nearly 30 years, now, in the.

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First, ten years, communication was completely based on individual meetings,, alongside ietf.

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Meetings,, alongside later icann meetings,, alongside inet meetings where members and.

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Chapter leaders could merge with the board, could meet people from staff, grab, somebody,.

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Talk to them and receive information and give feedback.

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When we raised our membership, and nowadays it's about 86,000,, I believe, and reduced.

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Presence at such meetings,, this was no longer possible.

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So isoc tried to improve communication by calling for input for the planning, phase,.

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For example. isoc opened up virtual meetings with the board,, which weren t,, at least during the time. I.

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Was on the board, was not a real success and most times we had at most two or three people.

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Signing up., so nothing really worked. Perfectly.

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Roughly ten years ago, the chapters advisory council was created to help communication.

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Especially between chapters and staff and the board, but the chapters advisory, council,.

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At least my personal feeling, is more into administrative tasks and less to a free flow.

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Of communication., and at least I didn't feel a free flow of communication back to chapter leaders through.

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The chapters advisory. Council.- so are there any ideas?

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any new impulse,, giving additional ways to communicate and improve this? A bit?.

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Ted hardie: thank you,, hans, peter.,.

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So I ll just reflect one thing from the session held earlier.

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There was a good bit of discussion about experiments.

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And the question was kind of raised, whether the board and staff could run some experiments.

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To figure out if there were particular methods that would be worth exploration and perhaps.

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Institutionalization, over time.

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And I think one thing that the board is certainly happy to consider that and experiments, it.

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Would be very useful if people could provide suggestions of different methods of communication.

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They see working effectively in organizations of similar size.

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So we can experiment with them., especially if they don't require structural change., because although there was some discussion at the previous one about the issue that hans.

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Peter just touched on, the chapters advisory council, because it has administrative work.

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To do, thinking and working on that,, rather than necessarily acting as a free flow of.

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Information in a forum.

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that we don't want to change the structures that are currently there until after the experiments.

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Have shown us what needs to be added or changed.

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So if people have ideas for experiments, we could run,, it would be great to have those.

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And have your thoughts on them..

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It would be useful if there are ways to run those experiments without first instituting.

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Structural change.

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Reflecting andrew from the chat, current membership, by the way, is nearly 90,000.

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cheryl langdon-orr: thanks.

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Cheryl langdon-orr, coming to you from internet australia., I think experiments are well worthwhile..

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I think it may end up. There will be different good practices for different parts of our.

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Global community.

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some mechanisms for communication, I suspect,- will be more effective and efficient in some.

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Geographic or economic zones, compared to others.

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I think at least from internet australia s perspective,. We have seen, what we feel is.

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A disconnect with our ability to know what is and isn't being successfully communicated.

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As well., so that's from a chapter perspective.

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We no longer have what we feel is an effective pulse, taking on what is going out,. What is.

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Being received., what our members are reacting to or not.

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I'm not sure how we fix that either., but we could work together if some of that information was perhaps available.

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So that's just,, I know another problem to solve,, but it does still fit into that communication.

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Bundle. but I suspect things like a podcast might work in an area where a more interactive webinar.

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Might work in one area, more static, traditional text-based interchange might work in a third.

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We just have to hit the sweet spot and perhaps know what's going on in each of those modalities,.

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Thanks. ted hardie: thank you.

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If I could ask you a quick follow-up.

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One of the questions we talked about earlier was specifically how to measure success.

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And it sounds like you are feeling a similar issue in internet australia in interacting.

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With your members in the chapter., how are you currently doing that measurement?

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cheryl langdon-orr:? We don't measure what happens between global messaging and our members.

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We reiterate messaging that we think is particularly germane or particularly important to us, as.

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The australian chapter.

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and we have our own mailing lists and we organize our own policy discussions, and you know,.

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Birds of feathers and small teams and those sorts of things.

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But that's really only the tip of the iceberg..

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They are the few faithful who are passionate about a particular area or interest.

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The wider grouping,, our members at large,, we don't know what is successfully getting.

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Through to them, or not on more general communications, or indeed, what general communications are.

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Or are not being sent out.

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If we get something,, we go, is that something for board members, or us as members, and we.

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Kind of work it out backwards., so I think there's some wiggle room there for improvement.

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Ted hardie: thank you.

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And thank you for the suggestions of different types of communication..

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From the chat, amrita said, agree, cheryl, different modes of communication has to be used in different.

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Areas or age groups. barrack said I think success can be measured through impact, tracking fellows and how they.

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Are impacting the society,? I can t think of any major internet pioneer in kenya who has.

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Not gone through the isoc inet program.

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Any other reflections from those on the call?.

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Barrack otieno:, thank you very much,, chair, barrack otieno, once again.

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Just like I mentioned on the call,, many of the members are being attracted because of.

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The impact of the internet society on the ground.

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Even though maybe the organization may not be as loud about what it is doing, as many.

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Other players do., as I mentioned in the chat,, my thought, is: if we could do impact research and publish.

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That,, it will be very useful for advocacy.

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Because, as I ve mentioned in the chat,, most of the internet, pioneers across africa are.

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Beneficiaries of the inet program.

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Even those that are continuously contributing at the moment, in one way or another link.

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To the numerous inet programs., I just want to point out. Even during the covid-19 pandemic,, I was involved, a lot in deployment.

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Of infrastructure, with a strong backing of the internet society in the background through.

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Its various programs., and so I think, isoc, continues to be really strong and present at local communities.

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But probably we just need to document more, some of these activities that we are doing.

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And the impact it is having in the local society -- local, regional,, then global.

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Ted hardie: thank you.

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andrew,. Could I ask you to reflect on how the impact reports are currently constructed?.

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Andrew sullivan: sure.

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We've been evolving this over the last couple of years.

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Historically, we had a difficult time, sort of writing down the goals of some of the programs.

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I think over the last several years we have gotten a little bit better at that and the.

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Impact report is constructed by, you know, sort of looking,. First of all, at the goals.

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Of the projects and seeing whether they are having the effects that were expected.

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And then also looking at whether those effects are in fact affecting the world the way we.

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Wanted. and a lot of what we do in those cases involves looking at how the work that the staff is.

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Doing and how the work, the internet society in general is doing, engages a wider community,.

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Has the effect of building, or promoting or defending the internet.

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And continues to show that those fundamental properties of the internet are, you know,.

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Growing and healthy.

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over the last 12 months,, we have been doing some additional work on trying to get some.

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Measures of that. you may see, I'm hopeful in next year's impact report. We will also be able to identify some.

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Key metrics, having to do with,, you know, the healthy internet.

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That the internet way of networking continues to be the dominant model, and so on.

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So we have been working on those things more and more,, but they generally involve trying.

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To figure out how we can get these measurements to really reflect the world.

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And then to capture the stories that illustrate how those things work.

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So,, I hope that gives you the background that you want.

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Ted hardie:. Thank you very much..

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And I think one of the things that --, if I could reflect on what barrack was saying, is.

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That there are a lot of individual stories of impact.

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And as he was saying, in kenya,, pretty much, everybody has an individual story of impact.

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Of the internet society on their journey to understanding and participating in the internet.

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How we gather those stories, into the larger narrative is a real question.

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Because,, it may be the case that there are people who have felt an impact that we didn't.

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Know were part of the project, but who felt the impact of the project in some way and.

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It's quite difficult for us, post facto, to identify them and figure out what that impact.

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Was., but I do think that we do want to think a bit about when and how the communication of.

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The impact occurs and maybe a solicitation, to say,. If you were impacted or you had a.

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Reflection on it,, we are currently gathering those reflections, and we will try to take.

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That into account when we assess the impact or success of a particular project.

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Andrew sullivan: so,, we have staff who are directly involved with the community,.

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Wherever those projects touch, the community.

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and, generally speaking,, the way that that s fed back is thru. The staff who have gathered.

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These stories, and so on.

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There might be some value in doing a wider call for additional stories and so on.

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And we can look at how to do that..

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The one danger, of course, is that part of the goal of the impact report is to make sure.

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That we can use that to attract new people.

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So sometimes --, sometimes the things that are reflected back to us as a community, and.

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The things that get reflected outwards are --, you know,, they don't --, they don't line.

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Up perfectly., because people who are interested in the internet society have different interests than those.

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Who are only starting to be interested in the internet? Society.

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We maybe have to figure out two different audiences there.

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That might mean that what we need are different reports and maybe that's the way to tackle.

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That., but I want to be careful that we don't lose the effect of the impact report in the outward-facing.

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Part of our mission. because of course,, you know,, it's wonderful, for instance,, that we have 90,000 people interested.

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In the internet enough to be members of the internet society,, but I would like that to.

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Be two orders of magnitude larger,, because I think there are a lot more people in the.

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World interested in the internet still not engaged with the internet society, and I think.

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We have an opportunity, there.

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ted hardie:, thank you.

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And I think your point, about there may need to be two different reports makes a lot of.

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Sense., I think it goes to what cheryl was saying, as well.

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It may be that how you talk to the different groups is variable, both by region and by.

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Age., but also by their current level of engagement, right?.

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The report to those who are already engaged may be significantly different and maybe even.

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In a different forum.

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thank you, andrew., are there other reflections or questions, either,, please in the chat or by raising your.

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Hand in the zoom tool.

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Jonas ngwenya: yes, good morning,, I'm from zimbabwe.

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The impact is being felt here, especially in high schools.

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There's a lot of involvement by the organization.

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You find out a lot of school-going children,. They are feeling the impacts currently here.

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In zimbabwe --, so if you start by maybe,, you know, trying to make those children understand.

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The impact of the internet society., it then springboards to the adults as we go.

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Ted hardie:, thank you very much,, jonas.

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Cheryl and then muhammad. cheryl? cheryl langdon-orr: thanks a lot.

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I had an urge over my lunch (inaudible). I have the urge to be a devil's advocate.

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I'm suspecting that one of the things that might not be working,, particularly well in.

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My thinking here., not my low blood sugar, but rather the exact purpose of the different types of communication.

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Because not all communication is created, equally.

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But it's also got to be effective and fit for purpose.

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What is the purpose for the different type of communications? We want to look at.

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Is this, what we need to do for reporting for the sake of the greater archive, as we.

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Go forward in history, is very different: to, andrew suggesting,, doubling our members here.

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Having a global membership of two-fold more than we do, now., the type of communication exercise are vastly different.

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I think they probably should be, to be more effective..

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I guess we probably need to have more thought on the specificity of purpose and design when.

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We also talk about communication., thanks. ted hardie:. Thank you for that.

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Although we touched a little on communication, more broadly,, I think for this particular.

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Session,, one of the things we were trying to discuss was consultation.

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One where there is a need for a back and forth between different parts of the society to.

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Talk to each other. either for a particular group of chapters or organizations to talk to the board, or.

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To each other. and indeed, the number of cross-cutting communication things to allow, for example, the organizational.

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Members to consult the chapter membership or the ietf.

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Or for the board to consult the membership and ask a question.

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As many people will recall,, there are also questions of when that is appropriate..

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When, in particular, the board needs to go to the community and consult.

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Or when a particular part of the society should confirm with the broader whole, that what.

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It s doing is advancing the mission.

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There are different kinds of communication,, but if we focus on today's topic,, it's really.

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The consultation form -- that two-way street form, that is most at issue.

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Cheryl langdon-orr:: let's just look at policy,, which I think is an ideal point. We.

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Should be doing consultation about. if there's a particular policy piece, some development of consensus, opinion, or even.

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New thinking, --, that is a point where consultation would be,. I think, critical.

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If you want to just have a general information-gathering exercise from chapter members,, that's probably.

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Not necessarily going to be managed -- if we call global one and our chapter members.

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Many, one-to-many as successfully as a regional-to-many or chapter-to-many, aggregate and get back.

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But to do that,, you also need more general information, communication, -- preparatory material,.

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Even just using the same set of tools and resources so that you've got greater parity.

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In whatever is happening in a many-to-many, as opposed to a one-to-many model.

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I guess, that design is where I was particularly keen to hit.

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The only other thing I just wondered about,, if we are talking about how we communicate.

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At the moment,, most of what I turn up to is a telling each other about what we've done.

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As opposed to digging in deeper about the development of policy.

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There are a few of those things., but in general, what we do is we turn up and go hi,. My chapter has done this and done that,.

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Hi,, I have done this in this particular fellowship, or whatever program I have been.

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That type of stuff.- that's not actually,, that's an intercommunication,, but it's not developing of a policy and there.

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Are different motivations as well. thanks. ted hardie: thank you.

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Muhammad? muhammad shabbir: yes, thank you.

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I have a different couple of questions on a different set of issues with regards to.

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The structures of consultation that we have.

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If I recall one of the topics that came up in the report, that co-chairs prepared and.

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Also particularly the third set of communication.

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What are the other examples that -- [inaudible].

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Ted hardie: muhammad,, you were breaking up a bit for me, and, judging by the closed.

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Captions,, possibly for the system as well.

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I'm going to go to amrita and then return to you.

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Amrita choudhury: thank you, ted.

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I m amrita for the record.

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In case you are talking about how the board can consult with community,, it could be when.

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There is an issue,, but the consultations could be different.

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For example, many times when there are calls,, I don't really know whether the invite goes.

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To all chapter members or all chapter, leaders,, etc.

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Sometimes we are not aware of how the invitations go.

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Because many times, as it was mentioned, people are veterans in isoc, people are newcomers,.

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They don't have the same level of understanding.

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And even depending on geographical regions,, so consultations have to keep those points.

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In mind when consultations do take place.

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It should be more listening rather than what's been planned.

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There may be certain other things for which that region or those different areas may be.

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Important. cheryl was sharing something about the policy development questions which comes.

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Many times some of the policies,, the chapters are not consulted when some positions have.

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Been made., I will give you a typical example..

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India currently has a certain directive which has come up [inaudible]. So there's a lot.

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Of discussion going on., there is a document being prepared by access now,, which chapters are being said to endorse.

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Now many chapters may endorse many of the points.

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But there may be certain points which may not be certain things suitable for them.

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So, my question is: have the chapters even been asked? Whether are you okay for endorsing.

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It,, or are there certain things that need to be changed, for example?.

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Or have the chapters with india, for example,? Has six chapters spread across and we have.

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A good number of members. have they even been consulted, what their views are?.

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Sometimes it is trusted.

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I think sometimes taking inputs and dipping into what the various chapters feel and if.

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It is reflected in those documents also helps.

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Thank you. ted hardie: thank you.

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Picking up on the conversation in parallel in the chat.

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Andrew says, it sounded to me like what you are hoping for is greater discussion during.

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The policy development process., as I understood it, the process predates my arrival in this job,. The point of the fairly.

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Long consultation period was precisely to allow chapters to have their discussions about.

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The policy in question. I will point out what andrew is talking about there in the pdp, is one that's sort of controlled.

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As a process by the internet, society.

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In some other cases,, as for example,, when access now or another internet group has formulated.

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A position and asked us or asked the chapters whether they are interesting in as ascribing.

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To it that process is not necessarily controlled by the internet, society.

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We may pass along or agree with it and pass along a particular request,, but we may not.

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Be able to control the consultation in that case, so we have to kind of distinguish between.

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Those two cases.

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Amrita choudhury: yes,, but when for example, a position, trying to look at it in terms.

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Of the tool kit, designed.

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measuring it with the tool kit has been designed,. Perhaps consultation with the chapters may.

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Help. certain things are with partners,. That's a different thing,, I'm just saying it as an.

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Example, many times it so happens when it is about a country,. I understand the internet.

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Society works with different partners,, chapters,, organizations,, etc.

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If chapters -- a consultation with chapters, definitely may not be all that bad.

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As chapters we are participating in this discussion.

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Ted hardie: thank you.

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Just to reflect again from the parallel conversation in the chat.

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Andrew, I would be happy for a review and overhauls if needs be on pdp.

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Andrew, I think the signing onto open letters is not governed by the pdp, as ted is currently.

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Saying,, that is only a type of consultation in communication, cheryl replies, early input.

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Can gain greater support is what I am hearing from amrita.

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Amrita is replying yes, cheryl, and andrew replies,. The toolkits under the internet, way.

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Of networking effort did go through the pdp over the last two years.

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And I think part of what we are hearing here, is the level of consultation that we can and.

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Do during the pdp may be appropriate for some things.

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When things have to move at speed because they are being driven by other parties.

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Sometimes by our partners, and sometimes other people with whom we need to have an external.

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Conversation like a government engaged in a shut down or similar.

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We have other kinds of things going on.

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and those don't follow at the same pace and we have to take those into account.

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But we can't drop the idea that there is consultation.

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We simply have to take it in a different form.

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So, I would like to go back to a question I asked earlier and see if there are any reflections.

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From the group on this. that is, in organizations of a similar scale,, do you see successful consultations that you.

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Can bring forward as a model for us to discuss?.

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Are there stories that you can share with the group of where this is working for others,.

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That might be models that we could adopt?.

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And obviously, if you have other interventions or other comments or questions to make,, you.

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Don't have to answer that one. feel free to raise those as well, by raising your hand in the zoom tool or putting them.

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Gunela astbrink: thank you,. This is gunela astbrink,, the chair of the accessibility standing.

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Group. unfortunately,, I had a meeting clash,, so I missed the earlier part of the meeting,. Therefore,.

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This may have already been discussed.

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But there's a new structure of the special interest groups and standing groups.

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When it comes to the level of consultation and also the interaction with the chapter.

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Advisory council,. We would like to see more standing, I suppose, in being able to vote.

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Being able to present our case.

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While I am talking for the accessibility standing group,, there might be similar expressions.

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From other sigs and standing groups, as well.

J

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Ted hardie: thank you.

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Are there any other comments or reflections or anything anybody would like to raise?.

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cheryl langdon-orr: sorry,. I should stop putting my hand up.

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It s not only a formal methodology that I've seen used, and was designed, particularly.

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To be successful,, it was tested and being piloted or whatever.

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But an observation, which wasn't overnight by any means,, it's taken a couple of years.

D

But they seem to have been an interesting amount of success for getting broad community.

D

From different actors in different sectors.

D

At least in the domain name and allied industry space.

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Over the couple of years, we have gone from just not only talking but arguing down to.

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The definitions, what is domain name abuse, for example.

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To eventually getting everybody talking about it.

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to eventually finding a great deal of positive change has suddenly, a switch is being flipped.

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And we got away from he said, she said, them and us type stuff into oh,. I see that perspective.

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And indeed, industry taking a lead and coming up with some really innovative solutions and.

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I think something in that, having a lot of conversation, a lot of buzz generated around.

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A topic. so the commitment to the material and just getting it front of mind in people's mechanisms.

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And processes must have had some effect on making that a successful effort,, because it.

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Went from stop annoying us about that to wow, okay,. Let's get this done.

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It wasn't overnight,, but it did happen.

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And that obviously, is an icann example., thanks. ted hardie:. Thank you for the example.

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Are there any aspects of that you see as any structural changes?.

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We can ascribe to that, or any methods we could experiment with?.

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Cheryl langdon-orr:, I think one of the keys was having a well-witnessed, in other.

D

Words,, an audience-base playing out of the debates,, both the disagreements and development.

D

Of understanding. there was an awful lot of panels. [Inaudible] that exposed the issue to a wide enough.

D

Base of people, that then more people brought in their thinking.

D

And I think somewhere that flip happened.

D

And it became okay as an issue and something that could be solutioned.

D

So that, to me, was probably what I think might be a possibility for some sort of structural.

D

So maybe the use of tool kits as publicly as possible, or whatever.

D

That might be the key. just getting the exposure done,. I suppose.

A

Ted hardie: so just to confirm my understanding,. It sounds like what you are describing is.

A

A situation in which the initial set of participants were polarized and by broadening the set of.

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Participants, a polarized set ceased to be. The dominant group.-.

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The other participants had either a more balanced view, or a wider range of views,, so the polarization.

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Was no longer front and center in the conversation and the conversation could go into more productive.

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Discussions? cheryl langdon-orr:, it was even more moving on the spectrum from polarized.

D

It was the fact that it was resistant to change,. It was a fear of change,. What's in it, for.

D

D

and then with sufficient wide or public interest, there was a oh, hang on,. There could be some.

D

Real benefits: if. so, there were commercial drivers there as well.

D

Not just a polarizing view that was then drowned out by a weight of thoughts.

D

There was a hang on,, there's a benefit going down a pathway, that I wasn't wanting to go.

D

Down in the first place., so that's what brought it more to the center.

D

Thanks., thank you for the additional color.

A

Muhammad,, would you like to try to speak again?.

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Muhammad shabbir: no, ted.

H

This was an old hand.

H

Ted hardie: no, because you were breaking up the first time,. We couldn't hear a good.

A

Bit of your first intervention., I was inviting you to go back to that and try again.

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Muhammad shabbir: okay,, I think part of the questions I wanted to ask was answered.

H

By amrita and cheryl.

H

second point was that internet society does consult on some parts from chapters and members.

H

As well. one example would be, the yearly action plan.

H

I'm not sure, and perhaps andrew you would be in a better position to tell that, talk.

H

About how many chapters and members contributed to the current year plan 2022 in the internet.

H

Society, and the development of it.- but perhaps this is one of the ways, we can start from there,. If there were some reflections.

H

Either from the participants here or any lessons that internet society may have learned in.

H

Consultation of its action plan 2022, while may be implemented in next year's action, plans.

H

Andrew sullivan:, thanks for the question.

F

The way the action plan is developed,, it is a plan for staff.

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And it's a plan that the staff have to deliver on.

F

So ultimately, it can't be developed as a community effort, now, I mean we could change.

F

That, right?: we could change the nature of the internet society so that we didn't depend on a professional.

F

Staff., but as things stand, that's what that plan is.

F

What we do have is a fairly significant effort to consult with people to see whether they.

F

Are interested in various kinds of projects and so on.

F

And the projects that make it in, one of the criteria that we use- is, you know,- did people.

F

Express interest in this?.

F

We do have a bit of a difficulty there, in that the very highest response rate that we.

F

Have ever had on a consultation with chapters is about 30%.

F

So we don't get a high response rate on any consultation that we do.

F

And this, you know, tends to mean that it s difficult to evaluate whether chapters are.

F

So much interested in these things., but we get pretty high positive responses from some very engaged chapters who are quite.

F

Interested in various topics., so for instance,, we have had positive reactions this year to the effort around digital sovereignty.

F

And so, that was one of the ones,. In fact, part of the reason that ended up as one of.

F

The projects, because it was pretty obvious there were a lot of people interested in that.

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Topic. we have had consistent and positive interest in the community networks area,, which is one.

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Of the reasons we probably continue to invest in it.

F

There are other things where I think people are less interested, but the engagement has.

F

Been high. for instance, the internet way of networking when that project was getting going,, it was.

F

Difficult to describe to people what we were trying to do., so there wasn't a lot --. There wasn't really a lot of reaction, one way or the other, a.

F

Couple years as we got going., but once we started to produce materials, they got excited about it,. They could see. It was.

F

A tool to be used for various purposes and so on.

F

So there's a combination of two pieces to this.

F

One is the formal mechanisms by which we consult with people to see whether you know, there's.

F

Interest in a given area or not.

F

and the other are the more informal mechanisms we use for staff,. We have staff who regularly.

F

Interact with the chapter and chapter leaders and so on.

F

And that's another important part of what we try to take into account when we are developing.

F

The action plan. I see a clarifying question.

F

No, so the response rate to the chapter leaders because generally speaking, you know,, we have.

F

Had the instructions, what we really need to do is engage with the chapters through the.

F

Chapter leaders., we can't engage directly with chapter members,. We can engage directly with individual members.

F

Of the internet society, but in order to engage with the chapters we have to deal through.

F

The chapter delegates, list. ted hardie:- thank you for that clarification.

A

Muhammad,, did you have a follow-up?

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muhammad shabbir:, not a follow-up.

H

Just a question for the policy makers to think.

H

If we want different answers, perhaps we need to change the way we ask questions, so we get.

H

Better output and different answers.

A

A

ted hardie: thank you.

A

We are coming to the bottom of the hour., so let me ask if there are any further questions or comments to the board at this time?.

A

Okay,, let me then close the meeting by thanking everybody for their time and attention. Today.

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For coming and giving your thoughts and your ideas.

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I think the board has definitely heard from both the governance, reform working group and.

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From these consultations, that more consultation is desired.

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And that may need to be of different types.

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I think our challenge now is to think about both how to experiment with different types.

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Of consultation and different types of communication,, more broadly.

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And in particular, how to measure it., and I think one of the challenges that will continue to come to the other parts of the.

A

Society and ask for help with is looking for models elsewhere. That people have found were.

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Successful and how those were measured to demonstrate that success.

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I think we are quite concerned to make sure that we don't spend a great deal of the time.

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And effort of the members of the society in doing something that doesn't, in fact, either.

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Reach a large number of people or hear a large number of voices or otherwise kind of meet.

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The success of a consultation., so although this meeting is ending,, I do encourage you to continue thinking about the problem.

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And to share with the board any models of experiments or structures, you see working.

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In the world.- and we will continue thinking through how to increase the overall level of consultation.

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In appropriate ways.

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Thanks to everybody for your attendance, today., ***.