Jenkins Documentation Office Hours, 3 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: 2020 08 03 Jenkins Docs Office Hours

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Jenkins documentation office hours August 3, 2020.

A

Welcome everyone: it's the 3rd of august 2020.. This is the jenkins documentation office hours. Let's share my screen and we can talk about the.

A

Topics all right, so, first, let's review the agenda so permissions to update the migration sheet. uh We'll just give a brief summary on that. Thanks jonathan for asking and happy to have granted permissions and plans to create a youtube channel or a specific playlist for video, tutorials and workflow to send and publish good.

A

A

uh How to handle third-party references in our documentation, oh to our documentation, so this is a third party that is referring to jenkins.io documentation.

A

And then outdated, jenkins, docker image, hidden treasures of jenkins. I think those are, I assume. Well, let's, let's attach some names to these. I believe jonathan, this one is from you.

A

Did I get the spelling, correct, jonathan.

B

A

Okay, so there is that one third party references in our documentation, okay, outdated jenkins, doctor image, vlad- I assume that's you.

C

uh Yes, I added a couple items.

A

Okay, great and then hidden treasures of jenkins.

A

Okay right, andy, and so any other topics beyond those we've probably got an hour or more of material just for just for.

C

Those just I'm interested in configuration as code in general, but uh in case it will have time. Maybe we can uh cover those in this like list hidden treasures, maybe but okay yeah. That's a good.

A

Suggestion all right.

A

Very good, okay, so let's take a look at top of the list, so there is a jonathan had asked about a sheet that is stored. If this is just a working spreadsheet that I had created to help prioritize, which existing jenkins wiki pages should be transformed and how we're making progress on those. It was not not intended to be anything perfect, but it's. It's served us well enough that we've translated a few pages, so the idea was that we use this to track as we create a new issue.

A

We put a link inside the cell for that issue, and then we can jump to that issue and see how it's progressing. If we need to um and jonathan asked hey, could he be allowed to edit it absolutely so he's been given permissions.

A

Anybody who wants permissions just open up the sheet and click this uh the button here on your view, it will be request, access and I'll happily grant it, I'm more than happy to have other people help with proposing and thinking about where information should be placed in the documentation.

D

Mark, do you want to call that um I don't know the wiki migration sheet or something I don't know? Does anybody other than us look at that.

A

That's a good that's a good idea. Yeah.

D

Make sure that they don't make migration more than it is.

A

Right yeah, very good thanks.

A

Okay, jonathan did that address the question you had. There was there more to it.

B

Oh, it's exactly the permission I needed to create new issues and update the existing one.

A

Great okay, very good, okay, all right! So next, one then is create a youtube channel or a specific playlist for video tutorials. I like this one, a lot, because there are already a number of I like the idea- a lot, because there are many videos out there. Many tutorials already out there and and a playlist on the jenkins channel would be great to on the jenkins. Yeah jenkins channel would be great to have we.

A

We have a playlist for docs, but for me, that's more about meetings, whereas I like a tutorials playlist as an idea to just capture tutorials. Therefore, people who look at that playlist will never see anything on it. That's not a tutorial for something.

A

How do we do that? We, so the someone needs to send a proposal propose a new playlist.

A

To the advocacy and outreach.

A

And unless you've got a better suggestion, I'm going to call it jenkins tutorials.

A

And so jonathan, if you want to take the lead on this one, that would be great you. You could do it either through the mailing list or through the getter channel.

A

Or through the the meeting, the regularly scheduled meetings.

E

Be one of those okay.

B

So I just need to send the request to create the playlist on getter's channel.

A

Yeah well, and what I would suggest is not just a proposal to create the list, but also um so propose to create the list plus the playlist plus propose some initial content and I believe playlists are allowed to contain links to other videos that are not actually in the jenkins channel and therefore um videos for the playlist, so initial videos for the playlist, and that would lobby this thing right here.

A

The jenkins minute playlist is some really elegant one and two minute: videos that highlight how to use specific features of jenkins pipeline in ways that people might not have considered, and it's an ideal candidate for something to. Oh I've only got one minute. I want to learn something about declarative pipeline. A jenkins minute. Video is a great thing to do.

B

Yeah when I was working with another project, I created a playlist called greek food five minutes I linked there in my proposal. It's several videos with five minutes and with instructions to use that too, uh and that time I don't know how it's working now at the youtube. But it is possible as us as collaborate collaborators users on the jenkins channel.

B

We upload our videos and after some review, they can be approved like a process to send the content.

A

Yeah so so now, you're highlighting, I think uh the workflow for who gets access to that and and what we've got right now is today um upload permission is granted.

A

To uh several people right so jenkins, jenkins, channel upload permission is granted.

A

um So, for instance, me oleg five or six others, uh and but so we may have to talk further about what would it mean to how do people submit a new? How do people submit a proposed video, because I don't think we want to give the typical video creator upload permission to the jenkins channel there.

E

Yeah, I understand so.

B

uh It's a kind of a decision to make because, for example, if I make a video and upload it for a drive content, so you get a new responsibility to get the video approve it upload uploading is on the youtube. So maybe it's several new tasks to you, for example.

B

But if you give to us the collaborator role, we can already upload the video we want to prove that you just hit on the button publish it's on a idea. For example,.

A

B

Yeah as a callable later, I can't upload and publish the video. At the same time I just upload it.

D

Is there I don't know, maybe I'm being too anal? I would like to see some sort of a process where nobody could upload a video that they created without somebody else saying. Yes,.

A

I thought that was what jonathan just described. Okay, wasn't that maybe I misunderstood.

D

Okay, so that's the upload but not published okay.

A

Yeah, so so tell us again describe it again, so how has it worked for you in the past? It's collaborators upload but cannot make it visible to the public.

B

Yeah exactly just the approvals can radio, the video and click click on publish.

A

I like that, so what that would so so there there is a that gives a way for a collaborator to propose something and they propose it in the context of youtube. So I can see the proposal by viewing it, but they don't have to make it visible to the public.

B

No way, no not just the floor.

B

I don't know how he is right now on youtube, because there is a new tool for a video edition there.

B

Essentially, they publish a new version of youtube.

A

Yeah and I'm used to I'm so maybe if you're, okay with it watch what I do here and you tell me if this looks at all familiar to you, so I'm I'm switching to the jenkins account now oops. You don't need to watch the jenkins minute. Sorry, so I'm now in the jenkins account and there's a facility here where I can click create a video or post that lets me upload or create posts.

A

So this is how I usually upload the the meeting minutes or the the meeting recordings. Is this the kind of experience that you've had when you've submitted as a collaborator.

B

Yeah it's similar, but uh the next screen. Maybe you can choose a private video, uh public video or not visible video. As a collaborator. I don't you, I am private videos. Yes, this is as a collaborator. I I only can send this private digits. I see so. I can't share the link here. I can do nothing more than upload and delete.

A

Interesting! Okay! So that that sounds if you'd be willing to include that in your proposal to the to the advocacy and outreach.

B

A

B

A

B

Okay, I will write a proposal with the instructions and briefs explain how it works.

A

Yeah, I I think that sounds great to me. So now, in terms of oops, there was playlists. I meant to go there just a minute. Okay, so we've got playlists today, let's see if we've got one, that's called tutorials already.

A

Okay, I don't see one called tutorial, but their search is imperfect at best.

A

Okay, so okay, no use of the word tutorial. We've got pipeline authoring, for instance, but this is again mostly used for meeting meeting recordings, not for demonstrations. So I like the idea of a tutorials, a tutorials playlist. That sounds really good.

D

Okay, do we want to subdivide it like by pipelines versus admin or something like that or I don't know it depends how many we're going to have? I suppose.

A

Well, so, let's, let's test it, we've got, we've got the jenkins user experience special interest group, so theirs is their just their sig meeting and demonstrations. If we were to look at their demonstrations.

A

Okay here we go ur ui overhaul methodology in progress video um how to create ui themes.

A

So these here are some that are tutorials, so I'm not sure I would do a subset until until the playlist becomes unwieldy, but but I'm I'm not an expert at this jonathan in your experience did the the other organization you are working with have guidelines on how long they would allow a playlist to become.

B

No, there is no limit, for example, tutorials is a kind of generic. I I like that. Only tutorials, but, for example, you can subdivide by ears with hashtags, for example, tutorials 2020 tutorials 2021 by hashtags.

A

Got it okay, so, for instance, if there's a let let me see if I can find one here with a label, is the hashtag.

B

Move just hit on this three dots on the right.

E

B

Oh no, not there. Where is it.

A

Well- and it may be that there are no labels on this one, but but the hashtag just refers to a label, so we can categorize within a playlist by label yeah great.

A

I like that, so, if you're willing to take the lead on that and and send that proposal, that's great.

B

Okay, I understand the proposal yeah.

D

What about maintenance and obsolescent issues with this um I'm wondering if it would at least help if each video was clearly identified as to the date it was made, and the jenkins release that it was done on would make it because I some of these things I some of these I'm familiar with, and they are close to three years old and they're, still very good, but there's going to be things that are obsolete in them, um especially any anything. That's more than two months old. The whole managed jenkins stuff looks different.

A

Yeah, for starters, here's here's the poster child of something that is horribly outdated and I still regularly get comments thanking me for it right. So so I in 2014. uh What is that? Six years ago now, I created a video called jenkins in five minutes notice. The version number on this screen is 1.562.

A

We are now at 2, 230.

A

So this is, this is ancient, and yet there are still periodically people who say: hey thanks. It's really really really old, but it still, oddly enough.

F

A

So so, yes, I think david, I'm not worried about deleting data, but I think, having some way of showing to to the viewer. How old this is is a healthy thing.

D

Right so, at least, if I look at it, it's like my screen doesn't look anything like this. If it was made.

F

D

Week, I'm concerned exactly if it's five years old now so.

A

Good, very good, okay, so to advocacy and outreach.

A

With uh with workflow proposal,.

A

A

All right now it looks like we may have lost jonathan, or at least video.

A

Yep, okay, so we may, we may want to well, let's take the next one, because I think we can get the wait. A second and I'll bet you. I failed to do the recording of this. Just no, we are recording okay. You said you were recording july. I I will I have. This is a win? That's great, okay, so how to handle third-party references to our documentation.

A

um The the example here I would would use is cloudbees. Doc's team refers to jenkins docks.

A

Docks in some of their material.

A

And what I would propose is we borrow their technique whatever it is, and I haven't looked at it in detail mark to insert the technique.

A

um Because they have a way of because all of our all of our content is creative commons.

A

um There is an attribution process, uh attribution process exists and uh we can. We can invite people who reference our materials to follow it.

A

So jonathan, all right, yeah, great so jonathan. The idea here is that there's there is a product there's a team inside the cloudbees development organization. That does this with cloudbees.com, where they sometimes refer to jenkins.io pages, and they they've got a technique they use for. For noting that this is taken from jenkins.io.

A

Now, I'm not sure that is specifically your question, so I was taking it as third-party references to our documentation. The next question probably should be how to handle references, how to refer to to other people's documentation.

A

F

A

Hey jonathan, so this one we had a connection.

A

Good to have you back so started started a discussion on the list on the docs list, with cloudbees.com cloudbees source material.

A

um As baseline as uh as one example.

A

I can link to that. Let's see we should be able to find that in the docs list. Jank.

A

A

Documentation, this was something like.

A

Maybe tammy is a good choice of nope. uh How about.

F

A

A

What would I have done with that description?.

F

A

Hey was it a recent one? It was yeah okay, so I'm perplexed I'll have to include a link to it into the docs separately. It's it's odd that I can't find it so jenkins, jenkins, contributing documentation.

A

See if google will find it.

A

There we go contributing documentation from other sources. Okay. Now we just have to find that in the official interface.

A

That's kind of sad that I couldn't find it with google's, but I can't oh, oh that's because it's in the jenkins dev list got it. That's.

F

A

Okay, just a minute, google groups.

A

A

Here we go okay, so this is the thing that I wanted to embed there.

A

That notes that they are willing to cloudbees is willing to allow the jenkins project to take their documentation and rework it. If we wish for use with jenkins in those cases where it makes sense, uh they were talking about alternatives there and what this, what how it could be used and how it wouldn't be used.

A

A

Hey, I think we've covered that topic. Any other questions on that topic before we go on to docker images.

B

Yeah just one question mark and, for example, uh the past week I work on the migration of the page about the j meter I use with jenkins okay and that specific page, the original, the original page. It's a a a copy page from the outdoor post, blog okay. So but uh it's a a kind of out of date content.

B

So I use some videos from internet and some other posts to rewrite the content to a update one okay. So what I I it's not a cop based from the others, but it the other content, was used by source to create our content.

B

We need to have fairness, all the sources or not, because it's a new content, we we can just publish without reference, no one what what the preference.

A

Question so I would think that you would. You would prefer to include a hyperlink at the end of the page.

A

To the um original sources to the sources.

A

Yeah, my thought was that if, if you found them useful in creating the content, others will probably find them useful if they need more information about it.

B

Yeah, I think the same, and there is another point, for example, one of the best videos I use by reference. It's a video promoting a course from a direct. I don't know if you you know it, but it's a a open uh video where they making live teaching, how to use genx with jpg meter. But in that feature there is a good samples about how to use it. So I use some examples from examples from that video. In our content we can have fairness record, for example, or because it's a sq with a financial interesting.

B

We can't reference to it. That's.

A

Okay, that's a good question and that's one I don't know the answer on because in this case, what you're doing is. Are you intending to embed the video into the page, or are you just taking the concepts that they were describing and describing them again.

B

Yeah yeah take their concepts and describe again, but if, if the reader want to know about the another source content, please visit the link, for example, or not.

A

Yeah, that's a that's a good question and I don't know what the it's a very good question. I don't know the rules, so let's invite them to click the link for more info.

B

Yeah yeah, because when everything is open source, there is no problem. We just put the link there, but when the content is free but was required by a I don't know in english financial institution, it's not open source.

A

But now but the video is freely.

B

Viewable from the internet, yeah yeah, it's free was a a event like a hack, fest, a direct america event like hack, fest and publish the public open video there, so you can have, for instance, or not.

B

A

B

A

I think you'd be allowed to reference it uh even embedded and and include a link for more info uh meg or vlad. Do you have further guidance? I don't have as much legal experience in this boundary between open source and commercial entities, as I might like.

C

Yeah, I I uh don't have as you mark legal and experience on that, but, like common sense to me, is in case it is video format. I guess uh any author can implement this video in their own.

C

Repository for instance, or setup and comment on this say well, this is implementation. This is how performance testing using jmeter can be done uh in case. If you want, you can reference, I think the video from which youtube, but it since it is different format.

C

I, like my first impression that it is not necessary to reference, but it will not hurt, but again there is on my side. There is no legal experience on that, uh but in case, if it is the same format, then of course you need to reference well, this is the video whatever but yeah. uh Actually, this relates to the question on clarification on the previous topic about video materials that we wanted to based on um youtube.

C

After this process which uh jonathan will initiate will be approved, uh we are talking about kind of official videos from cloudbees and jenkins project, yeah yeah, not from everywhere.

B

I I think this is very important mark because, for example, when I I use a link from oracle from microsoft, from a authority institution, for example- I I I may maybe I can trust it at a hundred percent, because the link is pointing to a institution confirm a secret institution.

B

But, for example, when I I put a link to a person, personal blog, for example, I I can't guarantee the the content from the link. It's always trustable, it's clear to you this. This point is.

A

So I think so from a from an individual, not clear how trustworthy that is right.

B

Yeah, because to to approval the person can use a nice content, but the content from the page maybe can change the future and become some bad issues to jenkins, for example. So it's important has a rule about this.

A

Good insight- and I I've certainly seen what I'd call trivial examples of that. We've had simple examples where a wiki link is now broken, worked before and is now broken yeah, as as an example or where I suspect, in vlad's tests of broken links on jenkins dot io. Some of the links there from six or seven years ago may in fact now be broken, because the page no longer exists, yeah.

A

Okay, now I'm not sure jonathan. What's your pro, are you proposing here how we handle that or what we should do, or rather that we need to set a policy and get agreements from the governance board on.

B

A

F

B

The instructions and how I need to proceed with the point of links- maybe I can send the links for revision and if you approve it, it's publish just for make a warning about the talk. Good yeah. Thank.

B

A

Yeah, that's a valid question. It's a good one. So, for instance, uh derivative text is the one that text. That's really the cloudbees.com the cloudbees docs team question.

A

But then you identified a really good, which is a uh idea or concepts from videos or from a video or other source.

A

Or then literally embed the video from another source.

A

Because we certainly have we have already examples of maybe we put it here as a different one embedded video from youtube. We have have those examples already right and they exist in the in the uh solutions pages already do that some blog posts do that and and others. So so that's already done, but if we were embedding video, for instance, from oracle.com or from adopt openjdk.net, that may be a different thing, exactly exactly good. Okay,.

B

Yeah there is another point too about the lynx, because this is impacted. The jenkins io, ceo, google seal robots about ranking and everything. So if you jinx io it's pointing to a bad reputation, site or issue sites, maybe can be affect the punctuations of jenks that I owe right. It's important we're about.

A

And it's really search engine search. Engine scoring is reduced if we have broken links, yeah exactly poorly formatted.

B

A

A

Good, okay, our search engine- I guess it's ranking right, just how they call it all right anything else on that particular topic, jonathan! No! No! No! No! I ever clear. Thank you.

A

Okay, so vlad replacing the outdated jenkins docker image. uh Let's discuss further.

C

uh Well, this is a continuation of previous uh follow-up kind of previous discussions that we had uh currently we're using in our documentation in tutorials and everywhere, blue ocean junk in ci image, which is, I guess, officially outdated, considered outdated. So.

C

How we approach of changing uh documentation, which my understanding is generated on jenkins io?

C

We can um implement on our own tutorials, and I'm talking well currently on behalf of me, but maybe it will be useful for any contributor, any technical writer.

C

We can implement tutorials using some kind of build docker image based on this official image and when we implement when we verify the tutorial works, we can document it uh well other approach. We can just try to think uh different pieces of sources of our current documentation by replacing jenkins, like kind of try and guess, without implementation first and do prs uh uh and issues, and so on uh so uh like which approach would be the best one in general.

C

What is the approach of replacing um generated documentation because I found out that when you are doing this uh a doc changing there are different sources of documentation which needed to be in sync at least 12 documentation. Our recommendation points that, in case, if you are changing this piece of doc, make sure that another piece of documentation will be changed and so on.

C

So kind of different approaches like doing implementation first and after that documenting it in some detached repository of your own and see if jenkins project will adopt this and maybe include in their own repository or sorry for this kind of messy explanation. But.

A

Oh no, no! No. I think I think your explanation is spot on I'm going to try to show an example of what used the phrase the word generated documentation here, and it took me a little bit to think what that means.

A

In the context of these tutorials, I wanted to show an example of the tutorials so that it's clear what that means, because it's, I would call it derived or maybe maybe reused, because what we've got is: we've got some segments of source files which are used which are written once and used many times, and because of that, if we change one of those written ones used many times, it will change it everywhere and the changing it everywhere could be disastrous. If we suddenly broke a tutorial.

C

Right and related to this, I have question which I'm not sure. If you know the answer, it will be great. uh Do we have some pieces in our recommendation which are generated by the code or not by the code I mean some some programming language generates.

A

We do also yes, so there are. There are pieces of the jenkins pipeline, the pipeline syntax reference here, which is entirely generally. Oh, no, let's see not this one. We need the pipeline steps reference.

A

This one is entirely generated by code and and it's enormous, and if we look at some of its examples, some of the things are absolutely huge. Here's here's one of the poster children.

A

It has a number of different steps, each with detailed documentation. This is for one tiny thing. If I then look at there's another step called checkout that is probably 10 or 100 times bigger than that. So, yes, there is generated code. Definitely there's definitely generated content.

A

So, on the tutorial question that you were asking so back to the what? What should our approach be in trying to replace the blue ocean image?

A

The the fundamental challenge is we have one two three.

A

Four five, maybe only four- I think one of those may not be but each of these this okay. This is a skip. This one build a java app with maven, uses very common steps and, I believe, uses the same source file to describe those common steps to get started.

A

This run jenkins in docker and on mac, os and linux, or on windows. Those things are relatively common and then yes, here's using the blue ocean container run the setup wizard and now this is where we finally get into something that is distinct.

A

The same pattern follows here: where the standard description is there and then fork and clone the sample repo. This is where it gets specific to this. This demonstration, likewise for the python python code, and so so I think that's what you're referencing when you're talking about generated did, I understand correctly.

C

Yes, I was not sure if, since there are a lot of uh links to different sources and all these sources are included in different pieces, I thought maybe it was generated as well as there are pipeline significances, which you pointed before. I was not sure about this, but thanks for clarifying uh also just my understanding, it would again from the common sense. Maybe it would be better to leave the current outdated image jenkins ciab lotion somewhere, because maybe there are people, I'm pretty sure.

C

A lot of people are still using this image in their uh well in in their everyday job or whatever. uh So maybe removing this completely would be not wise uh yeah, but I guess I will try to figure out the best approach. I was just wanted to share some thoughts on on this.

A

Yeah, so so my my initial thought anyway was we leave blue ocean and its tutorials as they are right and and admit that they are stable. You know, they'll, keep being the the image will keep being updated because it's automatic, but then we create a one or we create new tutorials and just one at a time.

A

That uses the standard image, not blue ocean.

A

And replaces one of the existing tutorials say, for instance, uh java with maven might be an example or um java with or.

A

Yeah java, with maven or python, with pi installer, the idea being, let's create that thing and then once we've verified it all works and is well behaved and well-behaved means runs on windows runs on mac, os runs on linux.

A

Then we would replace the page with this new tutorial and we've. We've now got something that no longer uses blue ocean. Then iterate on each of the of the tutorials. The current tutorials.

A

To replace blue ocean image with the standard image.

A

Is does that address your.

C

Question vlad oh yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for yeah. Talking about this. Excuse me more thoughts.

B

Mark yes yeah, maybe in the future, and when we finished all the immigration work, uh we can be wise if we work in the kind of new template for documentation. For example, the the vlad showed us a issue. We can't, for example, set a par part of the documentation as they pre the predicate like a blue oceans, and so we can put a flag, the alert to user uh pitation, and this is the depreciated way to use jenkins. Please use the new one or visit the link to get how everything works in the past.

B

So maybe we need a workflow to move the world content for a new page and just put a link from the main content. Just for example, now we just use our docker image, jinx docker images, but if you looking for a blue ocean image, please click here. For example,.

A

Yeah, so I I don't know that we need a formal, I wouldn't think of a formal deprecation process for that, because if we were to use this technique, we create a new tutorial and use it to replace an existing. So we create a new java with maven tutorial using the standard image instead of the blue ocean docker image that standard image still has blue ocean installed in it, it still has all the capabilities, but it it's just using a better image than the then the blue ocean, docker image.

B

Yeah, it's a big problem to solve. It's not so easy agreed.

A

Yes, whole hearted agreement.

A

Anything else there vlad on that topic.

C

um No, I guess well, we can talk obviously about this, but okay.

A

All right so then next topic was hidden treasures of of jenkins.

C

uh Yeah again, this is uh follow up on previous discussions.

C

uh Maybe you recall, we spoke during last office hours about about hidden treasures of jenkins, uh something that actually you mentioned, and I wanted to make sure that we're on the same page when we list which are those pressures and which are if the those are hidden so we'll use the same terminology in this case, and I like listed some of those, but I'm not sure if those are considered treasures and students, I'm just looking for approval from the panel.

A

Yeah, so for me, pipeline syntax generator is one that uh the another is. The blue ocean pipeline editor.

A

No, don't don't design pipeline state diagrams yourself.

A

In a text editor, let jenkins do.

F

A

Now declarative pipeline, there is also the declarative pipeline, syntax generator.

A

Though, for me at least, I've found the blue ocean interface to it more comfortable, but they should be aware of it. So.

A

That's another good one to highlight, say: hey, don't write, declarative, syntax.

A

Let jenkins do.

F

A

Now configuration as code- oh, oh actually, maybe that's a fun one.

A

A pipeline installation manager, utility.

C

Is it plug-in or is it a utility.

A

It's a separate program: it's definitely not a plug-in because it has to be run before jenkins is running, um and but it will, let you give a you, give a list of plugins and optionally, their version numbers and it will install those download those plugins and their dependencies.

C

I'm usually putting this inside docker file and is it when you're, referring to plugins.txt file, which you copy in the corresponding directory and all these plugins with their versions will be dynamically installed from cli kind of well, not cli, but from after building docker image.

A

Yes, yes, that's you've, you've understood an exact use case for it today, uh plugins.txt in the docker image is actually installed by uh handled today by a script called install dash, plugins dot, sh.

A

All right and that thing does not do dependencies and lack several other crucial features that pipeline installation, though the plugin plugin installation manager, program.

A

A

And in fact uh it's coming coming as a preview or coming as yeah, I think that's a preview to the jenkins docker image, there's a pull request for it.

A

So that in your docker image, instead of you would have the option to say instead of running installplugins.sa, you could run the plugin installation manager program and let it do its. The computation work.

C

Okay, so I need to take a look it, this kind of alternative approach instead of using utility or build image using uh using copy and there's install plugins.

A

C

Either or- and we don't have any suggestion to new users, what to use right.

A

Oh, oh see so for new users will either today use of docker will either use installplugins.sh or they'll use the plugin installation manager once it becomes available in preview.

C

I see so plugin is not yet.

C

C

And maybe related to this mark. If you don't mind the last question that I put configurations code, I was um well it's kind of related to installation.

C

uh Oleg has very interesting demo configures code when he using groovy scripts, bypassing um admin uh and an admin from secrets, location and just instantiating. This in jenkins instance, with already ready to uh pre-configured users with all their privileges, but he's using grover scripts, which I guess uh is more for advanced users and since I'm targeting more novice like new users, I was thinking. Is it possible to use uh configurations code with this um yaml file? I guess using jenkins cmo or something that's.

C

We can define users all. We need only to do this bypass.

C

Admin login uh through groovy scripts, I mean: can we do complex work of uh pre-installing pre-configuring users? Well, I'm talking about just one user, for instance using um configurations code uh yaml file. This is the question or should we ask this in special interest.

A

That's a good question. I so I think what you're really asking is: what are the limitations.

C

A

Of jenkins configuration as code.

D

A

And- and I know so- no plug-in installation, so it won't install plug-ins for you.

A

I thought that it could. Oh it. Let's say it differently: what what are the key capabilities so, for example, it can define the system configuration.

A

That's which authentication scheme to.

A

Use, etc, I don't know if it can define users, but I suspect so uh it can define the it can actually define.

A

Jobs using job dsl and the seed job.

A

Concept- and I let's see, let me do a quick check, we could. We could look at oled's repository, for instance, and I suspect we could see in his or I could check mine to see, if which things, for instance, I'm pretty sure that I'm defining folders um but yeah. So.

A

The question then that you were asking- and I don't know the answer- is, let's put it here as open questions.

A

A

Define users, groups etc.

C

Right kind of pre-installed principle configure yeah define just fine.

F

And that would be by security realm too right. I think it does. You can configure ldap with it. I think.

A

Yeah, in this case I, the ldap, would usually mean it would be using an external ldap source, but but yeah the the notion is still. Can I define users and groups for this demonstration for this environment, and I know that oleg's demo definitely does define users and groups, but I don't know if he's doing it with groovy scripting or with just using jks, and if he's doing that, for convenience of his for his own convenience or because of it, was a limitation.

D

Well, a lot of times they just use the jenkins user database or something and populate that which is not.

F

Telling your app.

A

D

Do it, you know in a production system that isn't what you're going to do.

A

Right and and oleg has very specific roles that he's defined in his demonstration and they are quite elegant how how they work, but I don't know which technique he's using to define them.

C

Yeah and then think about just just one demo user uh demo demo, who will be admin at the same time so to do this tutorial. Something like this like not not sophisticated kind of team of users and 10 folders and so on.

A

Well, and so for that level, there's there are already instructions in the existing tutorials that guide the user and the user just logs in as themself, so so that I think, if it's just a single user use case, we've got that in the tutorials already that we can reference.

A

Using ui, basically, it just relies on the jenkins startup process that requires that they find and enter the initial default password.

A

They have to find the generated password in the log file, enter it and then create their own account so that it starts off by default. Secure right, so it.

C

Create uh create account using ui, basically create new user from the expander yeah yeah. I was. I was thinking like a little bit, simplify this process, so they can just start the dam.

A

Yeah and given given the pattern that we've seen in other systems, I suspect the jenkins project won't take very happily to the notion of putting on jenkins.io a default username and password, because secure by default has been such a such an important thing for as broadly as we're deployed. Oh, I see all right, so we have. We have hit our hour any other things that we need to discuss here today.

A

All right, let's call this session good enough thanks very much for joining I'll upload, the recording of it later today. Thank you, bye-bye fabulous.

D

B

B