Jenkins Governance Meetings, 12 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: Jenkins Governance Meeting, Aug 12, 2020

Description

Regular Jenkins Governance Meeting. We discussed the recent news: Jenkins graduation at CDF, 2.235.4 LTS release and the next release baseline selection. We have also finalized the decision on the new "Jenkins controller" term that replaces "Jenkins master" and agreed on the localization guidelines. After that, we discussed the 2020 governance board and officer elections.

Full agenda and meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Nr8QpqYgBiZjORplL_3Zkwys2qK1vEvK-NYyYa4rzg/edit#heading=h.jcovn6fh0485

More about Governance meetings: https://www.jenkins.io/project/governance-meeting/

A

Okay, hi all welcome to the jenkins governance meeting um today is august 12th and we have two contributors on the call mark, wait and me, so I guess that's all for today, though, maybe somebody will join us during the meeting.

A

We have a few items in the agenda for today, so, firstly, we will discuss some news, including the dh net cdf and the recent lcs release, and we had a topic for selecting a new term for jenkins master uh as everything replacement for jenkins up as a single entity.

A

We were supposed to make a final decision today, but right now we don't have a quorum. I believe for this topic, so unless a significant number of contributors joins, I believe that we will postpone it until the next governance meeting on august 26th, and we also have a topic about jinx's governance, board and officer elections so mark. Do you have any other topics.

B

No other topics for me, although I'm interested in the governance board topic, even if we don't have quorum because I think that's hearing your ideas would be a good thing.

A

Next meeting is well yeah august 26th, okay, let's start from the beginning of the agenda, so yeah the first important item that we are now officially a graduated project, continuous delivery foundation.

A

So this is an effort which has been started uh two months ago and before that there was also a lot of foundation work towards general alignment with continuous delivery foundation. If you're interested to know more about this work, there is a threat in the developer. My link list, which I forgot to link okay, everything so on my laptop okay yeah. So this is amazing, this thread so what it means for us that now we are officially a graduated project at continuous delivery foundation. We are the first project to graduate.

A

It means that we are fully compliant with a cdf graduation criteria, which you can find on this page acd foundation. Talk project life cycle basically sets up a number of process requirements, including having a board with multiple representing companies, say just second, uh what else and then having documentation about governance, decision making and etc.

A

Also, we need to show that we have healthy number of communities and the project is growing and being adopted more and more and also there are process changes like having a good documentation and also achieving code infrastructure initiative, best practices which sets a number of requirements, for example, for code quality, for issue reporting for issue, triage et cetera, et cetera.

A

So these are tricky that we had to pass and if you were following their mailing list we actually have a checklist for this criteria, so you can just refer to this google doc, which covers what we did in detail.

A

There are some summary in the emails, so you can find them here and actually there was a lot of work included, so it wasn't just putting green checks. We actually had to improve a lot in our process, sensors and our documentation. So regardless of the status at cdf, it was beneficial to the jenkins project into the jinx community. So thanks a lot to all contributors who were working on that we have dozens of contributors.

A

I believe I have a list here actually yeah. I know it's probably not the full list, uh but yeah thanks to everyone who contributed to the first as reviewers, so it's called slash, documentation, contributors and you can find more about what changed in the project and way. We did it after all here.

A

So this is about the process and there is additional benefit to the project is actually additional coverage in social media. So, for example, canadian library foundation has posted its own announcement, which got some traction, so you can go here and you can find some summaries. You can find testimonials from different contributors, including continuous delivery foundation, members contributors and also jenkins users, so check out this blog post and the cdf has launched a marketing campaign, including some promotions and newsletters. So you can refer to this newsletter, and here you can find basically some summary.

A

So, for example, you can find a number of articles which were posted on the continuous delivery foundation side thanks to all contributors who were working on that also yeah. There are some cool content like comment strip. Additional video. Take a look at that and yeah. There are more events happening. So, if you're interested, please check out this page and yeah now what else about that yeah the results are blocked post by mark about the documentation upgrades.

A

So if you're interested in improving jenkins documentation, please take a look and as a in any other area, we invite everyone to contribute.

A

A

So any additional comments um about that, maybe mark you could share your insights.

B

Yeah, I thought I think it's been a great experience to go through it. The process improvements that cdf inspired have been a help and we're delighted really good results.

A

Thank you so yeah going to other news. I was actually thinking about organizing a happy hour for city of graduation but yeah. I kind of expected this level of participation in the mid august, because europe is just desolated because everyone is on vacation. It's pretty much the same in the united states, so yeah. Maybe we should actually move it uh too late august or beginning of september, but I definitely want to have a kind of celebration party for that.

A

Yeah, I was actually about to drink it at the next gardens meeting but yeah. Since we are likely to have terminology topic at the next governance meeting, I will probably uh schedule a new meeting.

B

I like that, I think we should we should celebrate it. It's a great idea.

B

A

Okay, so yeah other news: today we had a new lcs release. This lcs release included a number of new security fixes in the jenkins core and also in several plugins, including uh pipeline main integration plug-in, which is used by more than 20 thousand users and well email extension. I guess it's even more. So, let's take a look. Romania.

A

A

Okay, I always forget uh artifact idea for this plugin and I guess I'm not the only one.

B

I think you need the leading the the leading e on email all right.

A

So probably something uh to improve and uh search ability for this particular again right, a bit more than twenty seven users yeah ten times more, that's impressive, yeah, pretty much every jenkins instance. So thanks a lot uh to the security team and the contributors who fixed these issues. In addition to that, we are happy to announce that the new windows installer is officially in ga.

A

It was originally announced something like one year ago by alex earl. It was well even more. It was submitted for evaluation, but due to process issues due to the reduced automation issues, we had to postpone a release of this installer until the competition of the core release. Automation story, core release, automation story was completed last month so since that we ship everything in automated way- and we had an online meetup last week- so check it out but yeah.

A

Finally, this story is in ge and it means that now you get better installers, no 32-bit support, but it's quite aligned with our support policies for windows.

A

Okay, they will we'll see a few additional changes, but these are key ones and if you update this, make sure to update your sign-in keys like suggested in upgrade guidelines, so just follow them and everything will be fine.

A

So anything else to write about this lcs release.

B

No looking forward to people adopting it, they can also continue upgrading on their windows servers using the internal upgrade. So the upgrade guide describes that as well. They should they should use whatever works well for them.

A

Okay, so yeah a great guidelines are available for this lcs release, and here you can see that they include a number of changes. Okay. So this is one item and also we have new support next lcs baseline, all right. Yes, so it will be.

A

249. uh yeah, it's selected so what it means uh for users. We have a number of uh changes, so it's quite recent release and then 2.248. We actually had a number of changes, including dropping support for the night framework 2 in windows, services and many other changes related to apis and development. Well, epi changes also some other items and improvements. So it's quite recent uh release. It's expected.

A

The release is expected in one month, so it will be september 9th or 10th. I don't remember the exact date, but yeah the release candidate should be available in two weeks as usual. So if anyone is interested, you can start from exploring this weekly release.

A

You can see that original community and ratings work quite bad and, for example, I still know about a few regressions for windows services. uh I need to fix and workport 2.1 but yeah the release itself is available and we will.

B

Appreciate any feedback from users well and- and that's one where early testing, particularly of user interface areas. There are some significant improvements in ui there that we would love to have tested. So we we encourage people as the release candidate becomes available to help with the testing.

A

I believe it's september 10th also now actually september. 10Th is friday, so it's september, 8th yeah. Speaking of that, I guess we need to organize an online meetup um to this days uh to present new features etc. um So, right.

B

We should you want to you want to put an action item on on me for that one oleg. I did the last online meetup for 2.235.1. This one probably justifies a similar kind of introducing 2.249.

A

Okay, so yeah, if you could organize it, it would be great, especially since, since I am on vacation from september 1st to september 10th, so we either do it one week later or you. If you organize, it would be great yep.

B

And I assume it's okay, if it's very near the ga that just before it a few days before it would be fine or the day of ga, it doesn't have to be one or two weeks prior.

A

Yeah, it doesn't have to be one two weeks prior for sure. I would actually give it um a few days to collect community ratings so that let me make it after the initial release. Good yeah, because in this case we firstly can add additional details about the experienced regulations while fingers crossed. We won't have regressions, but so I would rather schedule it. Let's say to early or maybe something like september, 13th 14th so early next week after the lcs release, and we have quite a number of features.

A

So what we have yeah the so it's yours, improvements.

A

New installer for windows, also new windows services.

B

Well, in the deprecation yeah, that's the deprecation of the old net stuff yeah.

A

Well, the application of all the net stuff also implies some changes. For example, now you can easily install windows services without having to evaluate permissions, because now the dialog works properly. There is a bunch of other improvements, but yeah what else we have so, for example, dark theme. I guess it would be totally justified there, because it's the first lcs, where we have that and plug-in installation manager in docker.

A

It's a story alex and team, we're working on.

A

Major changes, well, I guess so right we'll need to collect them and.

B

Present them in the meetup exactly.

A

Okay, I'm just browsing through the change log, but yeah it's the cutoff from the previous baseline, but yeah. You can take a look. Maybe external fingerprint storage, though we will have a separate meetup for that, but yeah.

A

Okay, so uh yeah anything else about the next baseline.

B

Okay, nothing from me.

A

Yeah alex anything from you.

C

No not on that topic.

A

A

So I will have three people on the call: should we actually press it, we select a new term. I.

B

Think we should.

C

Yeah, I think, it'll be fine. um I would like to have more people here, but we we made the um proposal we'd make the um or have the vote in this meeting. So people were aware of that. So I think, if they're not here, then they're allowing whoever is here to make the decision.

A

Well, I've heard that we had uh more than 100 votes.

C

Yeah, it was uh 120, I think, yep or something close to that.

A

uh Yeah, so it's yeah 138 children.

C

A

Yeah so community votes and basically it's uh votes through the mailing list, so we're gonna, promoting the votes too much in public okay.

C

So for a discussion on this just before we do vote so I sent out that um table of um translations. um Hopefully I didn't butcher the russian translations uh too much because I know nothing about russian, so.

A

Yeah it was sent to the both men at least yeah. So if you don't want, I will stop screen sharing, can copy paste, it okay, sure um yeah. I don't think that there is any sensitive discussion in this particular thread, but yeah.

C

C

So the the one drawback, if you will to many of these terms, is that they in many of the languages they have a gender assigned or associated with them like languages like german or spanish or french. I believe all have like a gender association with a noun, I'm more familiar with the german part of that than either spanish or french. But that was something that we kind of wanted to um think about as we voted on these terms, um so that that would be something we we could discuss um or or whatever um in yeah.

C

So we can look at the.

C

Can you make that bigger at all.

A

Yes sure, oh please.

C

There you go so these.

B

C

These are just running directly through um google, translate um and then for languages that I was somewhat familiar with. I um I kind of chose the one that kind of aligned with the idea of the english word.

C

I think number seven um because of the connotations of the word fuhrer. We should probably cut that one out completely.

A

Well, I guess even in german, there could be other synonyms, so.

C

It's true, that's true,.

A

Not the final blocker so same, for example uh yeah for coordinator. Originally there was another vote proposed, but I guess oh no for controller. So here in the table, you have regular, but there is also a controller which is just okay. Yes, that's three key, so yeah synonyms are available for all.

C

uh Languages, these are in order of the community vote um to the same table. So controller was the top um item in the community vote um by, I think a fair margin.

A

Yeah, so uh you can uh take a look so basically the closest uh vote was manager, but it loses its controller, something like three times.

C

A

Yeah basically manager coordinator primary, they got approximately the same amount of uh votes, so there would be three choices and, after that, basically there is a huge gap until the next votes right.

A

So for me personally and from what we discussed in the board, I guess there is no specific reason to not select controller like we've got uh as community holds. At the same time, we still need to talk about the localization issue because for controllers basically for any other world, we still have issues with uh genders and uh languages and languages which have genders.

C

Yeah, I I mean it's hard to. How do you fix that.

A

Yeah, so, regarding that, during last few weeks I reached out to native speakers, including french, spanish, italian and russian, though for russian, it's quite easy.

A

So, basically, what I got from everyone is that we need to select one gender and to stick with it, because if we try to somehow reference two genders, uh it will over complicate our technical documentation and make it uh more confusing to users okay. So this is the first feedback. I've got the second feedback, which is a bit more mixed. Is what agenda to choose.

C

A

Yeah so recommendation so for that uh there was mixed feedback, so one of common items in my responses was that let's use masculine gender because jenkins bank, that log is masculine, so it would be aligned.

A

But the other alternative suggestions is to actually use feminine term, because we could.

A

So yeah and uh potentially it somehow mitigates the fact that genki slog has a gender which is not a common case in the car and products so yeah. These are two options on the table. uh Personally, I would rather abstain from this decision. uh What to choose um but uh yeah, I'm just sharing feedback. I've.

C

So I think we're saying that we're the term we're going to choose is controller, but now we need to determine the um localization outcome of that. Is that what you're proposing oleg.

A

C

Okay, I I I agree, choosing controller based on um the feedback from community as well as just um it. For me, it makes sense um that was the one I was kind of that I voted for. So that's my number one.

A

Well, I didn't, but at the same time I'm happy to stick to the community decision and, as I.

C

A

Previous meeting, I am really looking forward to call my jinx fellow runner uh master edition a microcontroller, so.

C

Nice, that's great. I like it.

A

uh Yeah, so I'm happy to stick with this decision and at the same time, yeah so votes, we've got so basically 95 versus 35 among jenkins contributors.

C

I would say community not necessarily contributors.

A

uh Okay, yeah, that's right, yeah or voters.

A

So basically, we send it to user and developer manufactures right. Yeah.

B

A

uh Yes, also, okay, so, regarding uh jenkins governance board, I believe that we got three plus ones for controller and uh to obtained.

A

Do I represent it correctly, alex.

C

Yeah, I believe so uh yeah.

A

Yeah they can so I haven't seen additional votes in the mailing list. After we closed the voting.

A

So let me double check.

A

Okay and no additional votes yeah mark. What is your vote controller.

B

Yeah, I have no solution for gendered languages, uh italiano, er, cozy, it exists in italian and I don't know how to solve it.

A

C

Off the cuff, I would say: let's choose the feminine gender. For those specific reasons you talked about oleg, but that's just off the.

A

Cuff, so what would be our steps regarding sorry regarding the gender, because uh one thing we could decide it right away today and another way is to actually drop it to the maiden list and to see what would be the feedback because uh process-wise and change-wise.

A

I don't think that we need to have a decision on localization today.

C

I agree on that. I don't know. If do I mean do we need to open it up to the or do we want to open up to the whole community? I foresee that actually being a a harder conversation than the replacement of the term, but I mean maybe I'm just um pessimistic.

A

Yeah, I'm sure, for example, uh if you take russian language tradition well, a russian language has three genders, but some words have to have agenda, including controller. At the same time, historically, a masculine term is used for gender neutral term uh for such items. So, for example, if we suggested to use feminine for that, I guess it would be a lot of misunderstanding in the russian speaking community, although I'm again not sure whether we can come up with the decision which would fit all the languages.

B

Yeah and what I know about italian supports that I'm not sure that I could. I could sign off on italian attempting to use the the inverted gender, the wrong gender for a term that already has a gender associated with it in in italian as a noun.

B

So I could we defer the gender question to the localizers, who are proposing a localization with sorry, the idea being that they choose it based on what their understanding is of their loc, their locale.

C

The um so, under the topic up above gender, you have recommendation to use a single gender to avoid complicating documentation. Is that a single gender per language or a single gender gender overall.

A

um Yeah, this is something we could agree on, because.

C

You solicited some feedback from native speakers was that um was that recommendation that that you use a single gender across all languages, or was it.

A

I haven't asked for this question specifically.

C

You had a comment up above.

A

C

A

I was just wondering what that.

C

Was referring to.

A

Yep, so I asked for feedback about their particular genders: well: agendas and their particular languages. Okay, I got some feedback how it could be written uh in general term. At the same time, yeah almost every response I've got was about that. It would be better to stick.

A

Yeah I haven't asked about uh specifically okay.

C

Yeah, I'm I'm kind of in mark's camp where that's um the gender is kind of left to the localization folks.

A

Yeah the same point so, for example, for chinese: it's not a problem because there is changes, localization seek and we can easily defer this decision to the seek, but other languages have no such entities so well. If we yeah, I'm not sure how to organize it.

C

How does kubernetes solve this because they use control plane or something similar right? Is that that so, how do we? You know? How do other open source projects manage that or this and are we going to go in and like? Are we going to do a global searcher in place for the term?

C

You know master in various different languages with just something else or what you know.

B

So I don't at least for me on on the. I don't intend to do that, because my experience, attempting to as a non-native speaker do localization has almost always been an abject failure. The native speakers prefer exact phrasing and exact terminology that I I inevitably as a non-native speaker fail to comprehend.

B

So for me, I still would leave it to the localization communities localization individual contributors, if you will, if, if they are contributing a localization, they get to choose how they attempt to translate the word controller into their language. So.

A

Basically, your proposal is first contribute. Auto, makes the decision right right.

B

B

And that may be sub-optimal, but, as a matter of of course, I think it's it's a it's an approach.

A

Okay or we can, for example, say that uh there are two main targets. Let's say jenkins. I website jenkins core whomever submits a pull request in a language. We kick off this discussion and cc all known contributors who use this language and basically stole this request, and until there is consensus, would it make sense yeah? That would be fine.

C

A

Works the discussion when uh that is jenkins, core or jenkins, I hope, requests native speakers. I expected to reach consensus.

A

Well, this process is still quite difficult. Yeah, maybe also.

A

Mainly at least.

A

Yeah, at the same time, for example, I can imagine plugging maintainers, doing changes ahead of us and we had already had plugin maintenance, changing documentation for jenkins master, to other terms, not the controller.

A

So I'm not too concerned about that. At the same time, yeah, I guess what we will need to do is to track these decisions and maybe to have a page use our recommendations.

C

That's a good idea.

A

Yeah android use a page with a term recommendations.

C

A

C

A

Yeah so yeah we already have a glossary page.

A

uh So maybe we could somehow inject it there.

A

I'm not sure how well one easy way is, to just add a hyperlink or maybe the expanding section. So, for example, we can keep a disease and then say localizations, so you will click a button and then it expands and shows you uh recommended localizations for different languages.

A

Would it make sense.

C

Yeah, I think that sounds.

A

A

Yeah, I believe it will require some implementation work because I'm not sure whether we have a standard macro micro for that but yeah. It's not a big deal to implement it. If you decide to do so.

A

So I'm not sure who would take connection item to implement it.

C

uh You can give it to me, I don't know necessarily how to do it all, but I'll um I'll take a look into it.

A

Well, we need more example: experts, okay,.

A

Yep but yeah so kick off the discussion when uh there is a jenkins college, ancient cio pull request uh uh so stole the request and kick off the discussion.

C

A

So both uh score support on hold label.

A

A

So my name is right:.

C

A

Should we be developer on documentation.

A

C

um That's a good question.

A

B

That would be fine yeah. That would be okay, which one the well developer list is more likely to to be detected by plug-in maintainers and by localizers than the docsig. I don't remember the last time I saw a docs mailing list posting from someone who's a localizer.

A

Okay, so developer mailing list, then or in call 80 ml, inclusive presence.

A

ah Yes, yeah right, just the chinese. The chinese is an example. Well, chinese is a good example. The problem with that that we have mainly lists in other languages. So if you go to this page so, for example, brazil, japanese career in the chinese, uh my bet that this smelling kiss are not very active for these days, but I'm happy to be, let's say so, for example, crazy yeah. I guess it's brazilian right, so yeah last update actually my thirteens, but before that it was previous year.

A

So for japanese, it's pretty much like that. So I guess it means that chinese is the only honorable exception.

A

Well yeah, I can I mean russian. We don't have american feast, we have telegram charts which could work, but in russian it's still quite straightforward, so I wouldn't expect too many problems or in a local oil change.

A

A

A

Okay, so would it work.

C

Yeah, I think that's good.

A

I like that, making a decision without making a decision.

A

Well, I believe that it's the best we can do delegated to contributors who are actually familiar with the matter.

A

Term recommendations: yeah, okay, so I guess it means that jenkins controller is now.

A

Official, the general recommendation for localizations.

A

Unfortunately, in english we can just use it, and I believe that we already use it in the documentation.

C

A

Okay, so anything else.

A

C

A

Quickly running out of time, so my proposal would be to just quickly touch the governor's board and officer elections and to push the rest of the topics to the next meeting.

A

Is it fine with you.

C

A

Okay, so for governance, both in office reductions yeah. So we think that we actually need to have them.

A

And so we have a page documenting the process here project, so this round page and yeah, the jenkins board selection process. So I guess the current terms were effective on december 3rd or so.

A

Sorry, I forgot the word account.

B

Of officers- maybe oh.

A

No okay, uh the current.

B

A

Okay, uh what's the members and officers every announcement so to re elect so unless something uh changes, we need to reject one board number.

A

A

A

And five officers, including mark right so yeah what it means.

A

That we actually need to organize the process last time it required significant time from us and the most difficult part was organizing chip's world. So similarly to how we run controller decisions but yeah for controller decisions, it was easy because it was a public code. So basically anyone using was eligible to vote, but our governance board detection process is quite different because it defines disability and what it means that we cannot just a center link.

A

It needs that we have to prepare restricted links for all participants. Sieves supports that, but yeah what we experienced during the last direction that you can adjust that uh 100 uh southern participants, like we have in our in our ldap database and our process basically requires us to send an email to every user in build-up database.

A

Then they subscribe for voting.

A

Then we send them another email like this voting thing specifically for this particular person, then they vote, and then we count the results so last year it was quite difficult to implement all that and they are one of the topics which we have brought up at the retrospective. That probably we shouldn't do. Elections like that anymore, and it brings up the question- is what you want to do with the next elections.

C

Yeah, I remember uh all of you. I spent a lot of time and other people not just him, but there was a lot of time spent, trying to figure out who had what emails and stuff like that.

C

So I would definitely like to avoid.

C

C

But I don't I'm not sure how to do it. Since I mean do enough, people read the user and dev mailing lists that you can, but you have to have. It has to be logged in by a single person right. That's the.

A

Yeah and also we need to somehow beautify eligibility of such a person because, for example, uh yeah last voting, we defined a cut-off period so why it's needed is because otherwise somebody could just create, let's say 100 thousand accounts right, basically rick directions, so we define a cut-off date. We basically base eligibility on that.

A

So there are two obvious issues, one issue that basically we need to define and cut off early. We need to query our data to prepare this mailing list where indeed, data becomes tricky because yeah we know that we lost three months of followed up database history, so what it means that some contributors may be visible at the same time. They are not in the database, so we will need to use alternate channels to make the announcement and to provide a way for them to actually mitigate that somehow yeah.

A

We did a definite channel for that last year, but I doubt that anyone used it so the process is quite complicated yeah and uh it would be great to consider that, especially if we talk about identity management, immigration, so the topic which is being discussed at the infrastructure manifest because one of the options on the table there is basically using linux foundation, user database and migrating there, so that we don't have to maintain our own database, but it makes elections even more difficult because we won't be able to really attract our contributors, etc.

A

Probably we could, but it will require some additional implementation. So this is the topics which I wanted to brought up again. We don't need to make any decisions.

A

Today, but we definitely need stuff to start planning for that, because yeah, if, let's say elections happen in november, so that we respect one year terms, it means that yeah, let's say in the beginning of october, we should have um finalized process which got a consensus in the community, so that doesn't happen. On the last day, yeah.

B

So like are, we: are we open to considering removing eligibility requirements entirely considering the voting process on controller on on the use of the new terminology?

B

A

Again, it's a problem with whether we're concerned that somebody looks at action.

A

Because yeah for for public votes, it's easy! You just uh just clean your cookies, changing ip! Somehow it tracks your participation by ap and whether you can vote again again and again right.

A

So I don't think that we can drop eligibility requirement completely. At the same time, we could probably redefine that one of the potential ways to redefine that would be easy, but I don't think appropriate is just to take maintainer database and, for example, github contributor database. It's something we can do easily. At the same time, I don't think that github represents the jenkins community.

A

So and again it brings up another program.

A

So we still need to have a mixed approach. Probably we could just create the earlier sign-up form, starting reach out to contributors through different channels and introduce a way to verify eligibility.

A

A

I don't know how to do that, but definitely a removing eligibility requirement entirely is not an option for me. Okay, good. Thank you. Thanks for the clarity.

A

So personally, I just leaned towards uh just dumping user databases. We know and announcing it to the mailing list. So maybe mail increase, it would be a great start and we hopefully will get enough people to sign up. Then we can do the same, for example for blog as blog posts as social media, and you can filter people who sign up somehow so yeah. For example, we can require anyone who responds to provide the jenkins account id or github id so that we can verify their contribution.

A

It would still require manual work, but it's feasible. I think.

C

Yeah, I think that sounds like a good approach.

C

I'm sure the the devil is in the details, as they say.

A

Yeah but yeah, even our previous process was a kind of let's say, not real, because you can be a contributor to the jenkins project, but it doesn't mean that you need a jenkins account id, especially now when many companies move to github issues, uh when, basically, you don't need a jenkins account for anything except jenkins, jr right now, unless your admin or whatever contributor, with infrastructure access so yeah, I don't think that our current process is totally inclusive when it comes to the junk is coming into uses.

A

B

In this public, signup plus verification, you're envisioning that if they have a github account, they would be verified or know it's. You need to be somehow involved in one of the jenkins repositories before you would grant them.

B

I, I guess it needs more discussion.

A

We're probably beyond time and therefore slightly beyond time, so but yeah. If you have github account, you can query github organizations and you can have a proof of contribution, for example, pull request command review, whatever we can define this correctly later, but we can uh define same for jenkins jitter. We have account id. We can verify that there was let's say comment new issue created issue addressed again. We can identify effect of contribution for the rest yeah. We can use manual ways, for example this, if you have never contributed using github or drink zero.

A

Please describe your contributions and provide the ways to verify that.

A

So something like that.

B

Got it okay, thank you for the clarity.

A

Yeah, so what is my plan is to actually think about it, a bit more and come up with a proposal in the developer mind at least early to start this discussion, but yeah.

A

I definitely think that we should move on and stop relying on all confluence account members, especially since we definitely know some contributors who can over 15 times, especially our infrastructure team members, because they have multiple accounts for testing well, I totally believe that they don't viciously use it, and we actually did some verification during the previous election process to ensure that there is no such duplicates.

A

At the same time. Again, it's potential for changes. We cannot verify.

A

A

So, yes, we are five minutes over time. uh Do we have anything else to discuss on this topic.

C

I don't think so.

A

Okay, so yeah I'll try to start uh mailing this discussion once I finalize my proposals up to a way that it looks sustainable to me or maybe I will run it through the jenkins board and officers first, but yeah. Let's see.

C

A

So it definitely doesn't happen next week, but yeah, maybe later okay, so, and I will move these topics to the next meeting.

A

Okay, so alex, would you be able uh to summarize uh the decisions uh on the terminology yeah.

C

I'll send out a reply to the mailing list.

A

Yeah, thank you because I guess it's the only time sensitive topic in terms of communications.

A

Okay, then, thanks for your time and yeah thanks a lot to everyone who participated in the terminology, discussions and decisions so great uh to see this topic concluded of these follow-ups for localizations, but yeah. We have a pass forward. So thanks. Everyone.

C

Thanks alex thanks.

A

Mark yep, bye.