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A
A
Is
that
you
is
that
representative,
oh
the
plessy,
I
think
we
saw
that
representative
how
about
I
go
get
that
we
hear
him,
that's,
okay,
what
I
was
going
to
do.
I
was
just
going
to
ask
representative
he'd,
say
prayer,
but
if
you
could
just
bow
your
head,
we'll
say:
prayer,
real,
quick.
As
we
start
here
heavenly
father.
We
thank
you
for
each
and
every
member
of
this
committee
and
this
day
that
you've
given
us
to
do
the
work
of
the
people.
A
A
A
Thank
you,
and
at
this
time
I'll
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
report
for
those
of
you
at
home
or
that
are
working
from
your
office
remotely.
As
you
know,
please
state,
if
you're
in
your
office,
if
you're
in
your
district
and
we'll
give
you
a
little
bit
extra
time
to
be
able
to
hit
that
mute
button,
because
I
know
when
I'm
trying
to
participate
from
home
it's
difficult
to
hit
that
on
your
phone.
A
B
B
G
Chairman
smith,
chairman
goose,
thank
you
so
much
for
allowing
me
to
be
here
today.
It's
a
pleasure
and
an
honor
to
be
able
to
to
present
to
you
this
morning.
Let
me
get
this
up
and
shared
with
the
group.
G
Hopefully,
everyone
can
now
see
the
screen
again.
Thank
you
for
for
allowing
me
to
be
here
this
morning
or
this
afternoon.
A
couple
things
I
want
to
do
today
is
first,
I
want
to
just
kind
of
give
a
quick
update
on
big
rivers,
where
we
are
some
of
you
very
familiar
with
big
rivers
and
we've
been
through
a
significant
transformation.
G
H
G
So
we've
been
through
a
significant
transformation
over
the
last
few
years,
and
I
want
to
just
kind
of
give
a
brief
update
on
that,
and
then
some
of
you
are
new,
so
you
may
not
be
familiar
with
with
big
rivers.
The
second
thing
I
want
to
do
today
is
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
coal
fleet
and
how
important
that
coal
fleet
is
to
the
electric
grid,
not
just
here
in
kentucky
but
nationally
as
well.
G
So
big
rivers
was
formed
in
1961,
we
employ
about
400
employees
and
we
essentially
work
surrounding
the
seven
values
that
you
see
on
the
screen:
safety
being
our
number
one
core
value
and
we'll
discuss
that
a
little
more
in
depth.
Later
big
rivers
is
owned
by
three
distribution:
co-ops
kenergy
and
henderson
meade
county
and
brandenburg
and
jackson
purchase
in
paducah
together
those
three
co-ops
serve
about
121
000
homes
and
businesses
across
22
counties.
G
If
you
look
at
our
service
territory,
it's
essentially
parallel
with
the
ohio
river
about
three
counties
south
of
the
river
from
paducah
all
the
way
to
brandenburg
all
four
of
us.
The
three
distribution
co-ops
and
big
rivers
is
regulated
by
the
kentucky
public
service
commission.
We
have
about
1
300
miles
of
transmission
line.
We
own
936
megawatts
of
generation
actually
generating
plants.
G
G
A
robert
green
plant
at
seabree
is
currently
on
coal,
and
we
will
be
converting
that
to
natural
gas
during
the
second
quarter
of
2022
and
then
d.b
wilson
is
our
coal
plant
and
one
that
we're
very
proud
of.
It's,
probably
the
not
probably
it
is
one
of
the
most
competitive
cost
competitive
plants
in
the
country.
G
Again,
we
take
178
megawatts
of
cipa
power.
We're
second
only
to
tva.
Tva
is
the
only
entity
that
takes
more
sepa,
hydropower
than
big
rivers,
and
then
here's
our
three
solar
facilities,
160
megawatts
in
henderson,
60
megawatts
in
mccracken,
county
and
40
megawatts
in
me,
we've
got
that
spread
out
across
our
service
territory
and
our
footprint,
so
we're
about
about
1300
375,
megawatts
total,
available
resources
to
big
rivers.
G
Along
with
our
1300
miles
of
transmission
line.
We
have
about
16
000
acres
of
right-of-way
that
we
have
to
maintain
annually
and
we
are.
We
have
20
transmission
interconnections
with
six
surrounding
utilities
in
our
service
territory,.
G
G
Along
with
that,
we
have
also
won
five
consecutive
kentucky:
employee
employers,
mutual
insurance,
destiny
award,
that's
kimi,
that's
who
performs
for
us
on
our
workforce,
comp
insurance
and
they
give
that
award
out
to
the
company
with
the
lowest
experience
modification
rate
and
for
five
consecutive
years
we've
had
the
I.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
if,
if
anyone
has
any
questions,
please
speak
up,
I
want
it
to
be
kind
of
interactive.
So
if,
if
you
have
questions
along
the
way
and
then
obviously
I'll
have
time
for
questions
at
the
end,
I
won't
go
through
all
these
stats.
But
I
do
think,
there's
a
couple
very
important
here:
our
transmission
employees,
which
is
our
linemen.
G
They
have
gone
six
years
without
a
recordable
injury,
that's
an
osha
recordable
and
as
if
you're
in
business,
you
understand,
osha
recordable
could
be
as
much
as
just
smashing
your
thumb
and
going
to
the
doctor
and
getting
a
couple
stitches
or
your
back
hurts
and
you
get
a
prescription
medication.
So
that's
pretty
remarkable
that
they
work
in
the
conditions
in
the
environment
that
they
work
in
without
any
osha
recordables
for
six
years.
G
If
you
look
at
our
incident,
statistics
we're
about
half
of
the
national
average,
so
again
a
very
strong
performance
from
safety.
G
During
that
time,
when
the
smelters
left,
they
were
60
percent
of
our
total
load
and
60
percent
of
our
revenue,
and
we
lost
that
in
a
12-month
time
frame.
So
we
had
to,
we
had
to
go
through
this
transformation
to
do
the
right
thing
for
our
customer
owners,
member
owners
and
so
immediately
we
put
a
mitigation
plan
together.
It
was
a
very
aggressive
plan
to
replace
that
lost
load.
G
Most
people
called
that
plan
very
overly
optimistic
and,
to
be
honest
with
you
that
was
politically
correct
for
saying
you
guys
are
crazy.
There's
no
way
you
can
do
what
you
say
you're
going
to
do,
but
but
we
were
successful
in
in
completing
that
mitigation
plan.
It
all
started
with
short-term
contracts,
while
we
to
help
stabilize
the
our
electric
rates
to
our
member
owners
and
then,
while
we
could
negotiate
long-term
power
contracts
in
2015,
was
our
first
success.
G
Along
with
this
mitigation
plan,
we
put
together
a
very
ambitious
economic
development
rate
to
try
to
encourage
local
existing
industries
to
expand,
as
well
as
getting
new
industry
to
locate
in
our
service
territories,
and
we've
been
very
successful
with
that
and
I'll
show
you
some
of
the
results
of
that
here
shortly
and
then
we
continue
to
enter
into
long-term
pirate
contracts.
So
we
entered
into
with
kymia
that's
the
kentucky
util
or
kentucky
municipal
energy
agency.
It's
12
cities
across
the
state.
G
So
here's
our
mitigation
plan
success.
We
were
like
a
typical
utility
in
2012.
We
had
about
300
megawatts
of
length,
that's
pretty
average
for
a
co-op
or
for
utility
our
size,
but
in
2013
is
when
the
smelters
left
our
system.
So
we
went
from
having
300
megawatts
of
length
to
1200
megawatts
of
length
and
that's
huge.
G
G
That
was
about
a
30
megawatt
expansion.
We
had
kyma
that
I
spoke
of
earlier
100
megawatts
omu
180
megawatts.
We
landed
new
core
steel
up
in
meade
county
in
brandenburg
and
that's
200
megawatts,
and
then
we
exited
a
contract
with
henderson
municipal
power
and
light
which
which
got
rid
of
about
197
megawatts
for
us.
So
we
used
both
sides
of
the
equation
we
had
to
idle.
We
had
to
make
some
tough
decisions
and
and
retire
some
generation,
but
then
we
also
were
able
to
find
640
megawatts
of
of
new
load.
G
You
can
see
out
there
in
2021
we
just
announced
pratt
paper.
We
come
into
henderson,
that's
a
34
megawatt
load,
400
million
dollar
investment.
New
core
was
a
1.5
billion
dollar
investment,
and
then
we
have
block
ware
block.
Ware
is
a
cryptocurrency
facility.
They
do
data
mining
for
cryptocurrency,
it's
in
paducah,
it's
going
to
be
located
in
paducah.
G
It
starts
out
about
a
30
megawatt
load
and
it's
going
to
increase
in
two
years
to
60
megawatts.
We
expect
block
ware
will
probably
go
online
within
the
next
60
days.
G
We've
had
record-breaking
safety
performance,
we
were
able
to
replace
640
megawatts
of
that
850
megawatts
of
load
when
the
smelters
gave
notice
the
investment,
the
investment
credit
rating
agencies,
they
downgraded
big
rivers
to
two
notches
below
investment
grade
we've
been
able
to
claw
back
and
and
through
our
strong
performance.
G
We
are
now
investment
grade
credit
rating
from
all
three
credit
rating
agencies,
moody's,
s
p
and
fitch,
and
one
thing
that
may
surprise
you
is
we're
one
of
the
leading
carbon
reduction
entities,
utilities
across
the
country
and
and
I'll
show
you
more
on
that
here
shortly.
But
what
we've
done
is
pretty
remarkable
and
we've
done
it
economically.
G
All
this
has
allowed
us
to
keep
our
electric
rates
stable
to
our
member
owners
and
not
only
do
we
keep
it
stable,
but
we
return
money
back
to
our
members
now
directly
back
to
our
member
owners
through
the
mechanism
that
we
have
through
the
psc.
We
returned
33.3
million
back
to
our
customer
owners
this
year
and
we
expect
that
number
to
be
around
42
million
in
2022.
G
So
the
second
part
of
my
presentation,
I
really
want
to
focus
a
little
bit
on
the
cold
fleet
and
how
important
the
coal
fleet
is
to
the
grid,
both
in
kentucky
and
across
the
nation.
There's
things
that
the
coal
fleet
provides
that
no
other
resource
can
reliability,
resilience,
affordable,
electricity,
fuel
security,
fuel
diversity
and
it's
very
dispatchable.
It's
always
there
when
I
need
it,
and
and
people
get
confused
with
reliability
and
resiliency.
There's
a
difference.
Reliability
is
yeah.
You
keep
the
lights
on,
but
resiliency
is.
G
Last
year,
kentucky's
electric
rates
were
20
percent
lower
than
the
national
average,
and
we
were.
We
were
20
lower
because
we're
sitting
on
top
of
probably
the
most
valuable
natural
resource
this
country's
ever
had
and
that's
coal
and
we've
been
able
to
optimize
that
for
the
residents
of
kentucky,
seventy
percent
of
the
electricity
generated
in
kentucky
comes
from
coal,
and
we'll
talk
more
about
that
shortly.
But
by
comparison,
only
twenty
percent
of
electricity
is
provided
by
coal
across
the
nation.
G
When
you
look
at
the
nation's
average,
but
again,
that's
why
our
rates
are
20
lower
than
everyone
else's.
That's
why
we
have
opportunities
to
get
economic
development
projects
like
ford
that
just
announced
like
new
core
steel,
like
pratt
paper
like
the
mining,
these
data
mining
companies
are
coming
to
kentucky
because
of
our
low
rates.
G
Big
rivers
is
a
member
of
the
mid-continent
independent
system
operator.
It's
called
miso,
it's
a
regional
transmission
organization.
They
serve
15
states
and
part
of
canada.
They
serve
42
million
people
across
their
footprint
and
soul
relies
on
coal
more
than
any
other
rto
in
the
nation.
They
have
60
000
megawatts
of
the
coal
fleet.
G
G
You
know
this
is
not
possible
to
achieve
this
goal
and
maintain
reliability
and
resiliency
with
the
current
technology.
There's
no
technology
out
there
that
will
allow
us
to
do
what
they're
going
to
wanting
to
do.
It's
not
that
it
can't
be
done.
It
just
can't
be
done
at
the
pace
that
they're
wanting
and
want
it
to
be
done.
G
We
need
a
dispatchable
resources
when
the
sun's
not
shining
and
the
wind's
not
blowing
and
and
texas
is
a
good
example
of
that
back
in
february.
California
is
a
good
example.
We'll
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
those
examples
here
shortly
now,
battery
storage
can
be
a
game
changer,
and
I
fully
believe
that
battery
storage
technology
will
come
around,
but
it's
not
there
yet
right.
Now
that
the
you
know.
G
Typically,
you
see
the
largest
installations
of
battery
around
100
to
200,
megawatts
and
and
and
far
as
economics
about
the
longest
duration
is
about
four
hours,
and
so
anything
above
four
hours
is
just
cost
prohibitive
to
to
even
install
coal
and
natural
gas.
They
provide
92
percent
of
kentucky's
electricity
and
that
would
have
to
be
replaced
with
coal,
with
solar
and
with
wind
in
kentucky,
and
it's
it's
just
unrealistic
and
unaffordable
at
this
point
in
time.
It's
not
it's
not
impossible,
but
it
is
going
to
increase
rates
significantly.
G
If
we
try
to
go
too
far
too
fast,
the
customers
are
going
to
pay
for
both.
There
is
still
coal
plants
out
there.
That's
not
fully
amortized,
they
still
have
a
remaining
life
in
those
units,
and
so
someone's
going
to
have
to
pay
for
those
units
as
well
as
paying
for
the
new
solar
and
wind
turbines
as
as
they're
installed.
So
the
the
customers
are
going
to
pay
twice
for
the
same
amount
of
electricity.
G
Estimates
that
the
new
wind
and
solar
plus
the
transmission
to
deliver
that
solar
and
wind
is
going
to
cost
us
about
1.7
trillion
dollars.
At
the
same
time,
we
have
other
countries
like
china.
They
continue
to
build
new
coal-fired
power
plants
and
they
increase
their
carbon
emissions.
At
the
same
time,
the
u.s
is
retiring,
its
cold
fleet
and
reducing
carbon
emissions
and
you're,
starting
to
see
more
and
more
rolling
blackouts
across
different
states.
You've
seen
it
in
california,
you've
seen
it
in
texas.
G
G
G
G
We
spoke
about
california,
they
rely
more
on
solar
than
any
other
state.
They
provide
about
20
percent
or
excuse
me
30
of
their
state's
electricity.
From
from
solar
last
august,
california
was
forced
to
impose
rolling
blackouts
on
about
2
million
people
and
because
they
didn't
have
dispatchable
energy,
their
solar
didn't
show
up
their
wind
didn't
show
up,
so
they
decided
to
import
fossil
fuel
from
their
surrounding
states.
Unfortunately,
for
them
the
transmission
line
that
imports
that
power
failed
and
that's
why
they
had
to
do
rolling
blackouts
on
those
on
those
two
million
people.
G
So
what
that
means
is
30.
Renewables
is
at
this
point
in
time.
In
today's
technology
is
not
reliable,
we
cannot
run
the
grid.
John
baer,
who
is
the
ceo
of
miso,
has
has
publicly
expressed
his
concern
about
trying
to
operate
the
grid
with
more
than
30
percent
renewables,
and
there's
no
studies
showing
that
the
nation's
grid
can
be
reliable
with
all
wind
and
solar
again.
Battery
technology
is
not
proven,
and
it's
not
economic
at
this
time.
G
Here's
our
carbon
reductions,
you'll
see
in
2010
we
had
about.
We
were
emitting
about
14
million
tons
of
carbon
annually
in
2020
we've
emitted,
4
million
tons.
I
won't
go
through
all
these
stats,
but
you'll
see
that
our
carbon
reductions
were
10
to
20
years
ahead
of
the
surrounding
utilities,
goals
that
they've
set.
All
these
utilities
have
set
sustainability
goals
by
2030
and
again
you
can
see
we're
already
meeting
most
of
their
goals
or
exceeding
their
goals,
some
10
to
20
years
in
advance
to
them.
So
we're
not
against
trying
to
do
our
part.
G
So
here's
what
our
future
energy
mix
is
going
to
look
like
it's
diverse
portfolio.
We
have
178
megawatts
of
hydropower,
we
have
20
260
megawatts
of
solar.
Both
of
those
resources
are
carbon-free.
We
have
417
megawatts
of
coal
and
we're
going
to
have
470
megawatts
of
natural
gas.
We
we
still
have
coal.
We
think
coal
is
important.
G
So
there
are
a
lot
of
pending
solar
installations
in
kentucky,
so
I
want
to
go
through
some
stats
with
you
because
to
me
there
they
were.
They
were
pretty
astonishing.
G
You
know,
if
you
look
at
big
river
service
territory,
there's
almost
3
900
megawatts
of
solar
in
the
queue
meaning
they're
wanting
to
build
3
900
megawatts
of
solar.
Just
in
our
22
counties,
it's
almost
39
000
acres
of
solar
panels.
Likewise,
you
look
at
you
know
if
you
think
about
that,
that's
that's
61
square
miles,
just
in
big
river
service
territory.
G
That's
a
pretty
large
solar
field
kentucky
likewise
12
000
megawatts
120,
000
acres,
depending
these
are
just
pending
solar
projects
that
are
currently
pending.
It's
187.5
square
miles,
that's
95
of
oldham
county!
G
That's
in
the
queue
today,
so
it
takes
up
a
lot
of
farm
and
agricultural
property
and
then
obviously
buy
sole
that
we're
in
they
have
about
90
000
megawatts,
which
is
a
little
over
nine
million
acres.
A
Bob,
if
I'm
made
just
for
the
members
to
know
what
my
iso
is,
this
is
a
not-for-profit
members
operated
organization
responsible,
for,
I
guess
15
states
across
the
area
to
to
make
sure
their
grid
is
up
and
running.
It
stays
sustainable.
You'll
hear
a
lot
of
acronyms
around
us
and
and
text
me
like
you've
been
doing
I've
been
getting
some
text
from
members
asking
me
what
these
acronyms
are.
So
that's
what
miso
is.
G
So
just
some
kind
of
final
thoughts.
We
rely
on
our
coal,
but
we're
also
involved
investing
in
renewable
energy
and
carbon
free
energy
as
well
we're
using
our
all
above
approach
to
give
us
a
real
nice,
diverse,
low-cost
generation
portfolio.
While
we
have
260
megawatts
of
solar.
I
do
want
to
add
that
100
megawatts
of
that
solar
is
totally
dedicated
to
new
core
steel,
we're
seeing
more
and
more
entities
when
they
move
into
the
state
to
look
to
locate
here,
they're
interested
in
renewable
energy.
G
G
So,
mr
chairman,
I
have
a
video
here
that
I
would
like
to
show
you
if
we
have
time.
I
know
I've
been
kind
of
lengthy
here,
but
I
think
it's
a
good
video
and
I
think
it's
something
that
shows
this
is
just
not
my
opinion.
This
video
shows
opinions
across
the
country.
Some
of
them
are
state
regulators,
utility
regulators
across
the
country.
A
We
do
I've
got
two
members
that
have
requested.
Questions
is
okay.
If
I
go
ahead
and
have
them
ask
their
questions
real,
quick
before
you
do
your
video
absolutely
first,
I
have
representative
de
plusi
who
has
a
question.
E
Thank
you
for
your
presentation.
It's
been
quite
interesting
and
I
also
want
to
thank
you
for
the
good
work
you've
done
for
your
members.
You've,
obviously
you're.
Actually
returning
money,
you're,
lowering
carbon,
that's
doing
doing
a
great
job.
So
thank
you,
but
I
do
have
a
couple.
E
A
few
questions,
mr
chairman,
is
it
okay?
If
I
don't,
can
you
indulge
me
on
just
a
couple?
Yes,
please
go
ahead.
Okay,
so
you
mentioned
that
your
carbon
footprint
is
down
some
70
percent.
Your
load
is
as
well,
so
I'm
sure
that
some
of
that's
due
to
your
load,
but
not
all
of
it.
What
what
would
you
say
what
technology
are
you
using
besides
solar
to
lower
your
carbon
footprint.
G
Well,
we
started
off
and
we're
using
obviously
the
solar
that
we're
bringing
online
the
260
megawatts
of
solar,
we're
optimizing,
the
the
hydropower
that
we
have
and
then
you
know
and
then
we've
closed.
Some
we've
closed
some
power
plants
as
well,
and
then
we've
also
put
a
big
emphasis
on
heat
rate,
which
is
kind
of
like
gas
mileage.
For
most
of
you,
it's
and
so
the
less
coal.
I
have
to
burn
to
get
the
same
amount
of
generation.
G
I
can
reduce
my
emissions
as
well,
so
we've
put
a
significant
emphasis
on
heat
rate.
We've
dropped
our
heat
rate
about
six
percent
over
the
last
three
years,
which
doesn't
sound
like
a
lot,
but
that's
huge.
E
Yeah,
that's
definitely
huge.
Okay,
thank
you
and
my
second
question
is
kind
of
a
little
bit
more
jumbled.
Perhaps,
but
this
legislature
has
spent
a
lot
of
time
on
net
metering
and
solar
and
and
and
we're
seeing
utilities
like
yourself
installing
solar,
which
I
I
I
support
whatever
you
need
to
do
to
do
your
business
and
and
tied
into
that
we
have
automotive
industry.
E
That
said
by
2030,
many
manufacturers
are
going
to
be
100
evs
and
at
least
50
for
almost
all
the
manufacturers
by
2030
is
what
I'm
reading
and
from
what
I
understand.
E
We
don't
really
have
the
infrastructure
to
support
that,
on
top
of
that,
solar
has
contributed
to
the
duct
curve,
yet
you're
using
solar.
So
I'm
just
I'm
a
little
confused,
because
that
was
one
of
the
major
arguments
against
net
metering
was
how
the
duct
curve
affected
the
base
load,
which
you
absolutely
and
I
support
coal
as
a
base
load.
I
think
that's
wonderful,
but
how
do
you
get
around
the
duct
curve,
with
your
solar
and
and
how
do
you
see
that
affecting
the
ev
market?
G
So
let
me
start
by
answering
the
duck
curve
question.
What
we're
per
currently
we're
doing
from
that
perspective
is
trying
to
limit
the
total
amount
of
solar
that
we
have.
No
more
than
30
percent
of
our
portfolio
will
be
solar
or
renewables
that
can't
be
dispatchable,
and
so,
if
we
can
keep
that
around
that
30
percent-
and
we
still
have
dispatchable
energy
in
a
coal
and
gas
plant,
then
we
have
the
ability
to
help
offset
that
duct
curve.
G
So
I
think
that's
important
that
you
have
to
have
dispatchable
energy
of
some
sort.
You
know
what
I
tell
a
lot
of
folks
is,
you
know,
don't
look
at
it
as
just
coal.
Coal
actually
helps
solar
installations
anytime,
you
have
a
dispatchable
generator,
it
complements
the
renewables
that
can't
be
dispatched.
So
that's
how
you
get
around
it!
G
You
just
you
got
to
make
sure
you
don't
get
too
much
and
and
that's
what
my
soul
is
is
concerned
about
as
well,
while
they're
thinking
30
percent
anything
above
that's
going
to
be
tough
for
them
to
to
manage
the
power
grid
on
the
ev
station
and
and
I'm
glad
you
brought
that
question
up,
because
that's
another
issue
about
trying
to
be
carbon
free
by
2030,
because
we're
trying
to
be
carbon
free
with
the
existing
generation.
G
But
if
you
just
take
a
look
one
day,
you
sit
outside
and
watch
the
number
of
cars
go
by
and
think
that
50
of
those
cars
are
going
to
be
electric
by
2030.
It's
going
to
put
more
upward
pressure
on
the
amount
of
electricity
that
has
to
be
produced
and
no
one's
even
taken
that
into
consideration.
At
this
point,
it's
going
to
put
a
lot
of
upward
pressure
on
how
do
you?
G
How
do
you
we're
trying
to
get
carbon
free
with
what
we
have
and
now
we're
going
to
add
all
that
additional
load
on
and
we've
got
to
try
to
figure
out
a
way
to
get
carbon
free
from
them
as
well?
So
the
the
ev
stations
is
going
to
be
going
to
be
a
challenge
for
all
of
us,
but
make
no
mistake,
I'm
all
for
the
electric
vehicle,
because
I'm
an
electric
generator
and
they've
got
to
plug
that
thing
in
somewhere.
E
E
So
if
you
have
homeowners
and
businesses
adding
to
to
the
to
the
grid
with
their
own
installations,
it
would
be
for
pretty
easy
for
your
30
number
to
be
toppled
outside
of
your
control
and
we
don't
have
batteries
to
deal
with
the
duct
curve,
as
you
mentioned,
so
I'm
just
I
just
it
seems
like
you
have
a
pretty
high
percentage,
considering
that
we
can
have
a
lot
of
other
folks
be
adding
to
it.
I'm
just
I'm
just
wondering
how
you're
going
to
deal
with
it,
but
I
know
you
you
got
it
figured
out.
G
Yeah,
so
we
have
about
20
of
solar.
Your
math
is
correct.
So
when
you
look
at
when
we
look
at
distributed
generation
from
the
homeowners
that
gives
us
about
a
10
cushion
because
our
even
though
our
hydro
is
carbon
free,
it's
dispatchable,
so
I
can
dispatch
that
hydro
plant
as
I
need
it,
either
on
peak
or
off
peak
to
help
with
the
duct
curve.
So
you
know
I'm
giving
myself
about
10
percent
of
room.
You
know
looking
at
the
at
the
you
know
the
distributed
generation.
G
What
I
call
coming
from
the
homeowners-
and
we
have
a
pretty
large
concentration-
actually
kenergy
their
service
territory,
they
probably
in
a
percentage-wise.
They
have
more
solar
than
than
any
entity
on
a
percentage
basis,
not
total
volumes,
but
percentage.
A
Questions
very
good.
Thank
you.
We
have
two
other
members
that
have
requested
to
to
be
able
to
ask
you
a
question.
One
is
representative
givens
prunty,
representative
prenti.
If
you're
on
I'm
gonna
go
ahead
and
yield
the
microphone
to
you.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
your
presentation.
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
a
rational,
calm,
rational
explanation
of
how
cole
needs
to
be
kept
in
the
mix.
I
represent
the
15th
district
and,
of
course,
tva
was
there
and
units
one
two
and
three
have
come
down
and
we're
hurting,
and
if
you
need
some
call,
we
got
some
call
to
send
you,
but
I
I
just
I
you
have
echoed
what
I
tried
the
case.
B
I
tried
to
make
the
tva
board
before
they
shut
down
unit
three,
and
I
I
hope
that
we
can
can
all
stay
rational
in
this
country,
at
least
in
this
state,
to
to
fight
for
coal.
My
question
comes
with
the
electrical
vehicles:
what
what
powers,
those
gen,
those
charging
stations?
Someone
brought
to
me
and
I
haven't
looked
into
it,
but
they
said
something
about
being
charged
with
or
fueled
by
a
diesel
is
that
true
or
how
would
they
be?
B
How
would
they
be
provided
electricity
for
the
charging
stations
for
electrical
vehicles.
G
G
I
mean
you
could
charge
them
with
a
diesel
generator,
but
that
seems
to
be
a
little
counterproductive
on
what
you're
trying
to
accomplish.
G
But,
but
I
I
see
you
know
when
you
start
look
going
down
the
road
and
you're
starting
to
see
truck
stops
and
service
stations.
I
think
you're
going
to
start
seeing
electric
vehicles
there
and
you're
going
to
see
them.
You
know
putting
in
bigger
services
electrical
services
and
for
the
for
the
electrical
charging
stations.
B
Well,
I
appreciate
that
that
was
my
thought
when
they
told
me
that
I
thought
that
doesn't
even
make
any
sense.
So
that's
why
I
asked
the
question,
but
thank
you
for
the
answer
and
thank
you,
mr
chair,
for
the
intelligence.
A
Very
good,
thank
you
representative.
I
saw
yesterday
in
transportation
that
they
have
developed
the
first
fully
electric
airplane.
It
looks
like
a
like
a
cessna
150,
or
something
like
that,
be
very
interesting
to
see
how
this
thing
operates,
but
we
have
representative
miles.
That's
our
next
question.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
bob
for
being
here
with
us
today
in
the
presentation,
I'm
probably
going
to
switch
it
from
a
right
now,
where
you're,
where
you
are
of
trying
to
balance,
I
guess
you'd,
say
the
different
percentages
and
things
like
that,
and
I
guess
I'm
going
to
ask
forward
thinking
as
far
as
the
solar
that
you
currently
have
in
place
and
as
far
as
the
state
we're
starting
to
look
at
trying
to
figure
out
what
our
plan
needs
to
be
statewide
on
the
solar
farms,
the
individuals
on
their
own
property,
things
like
that.
B
So
what
is
ural's
plan
in
place
whenever
those
have
to
be
either
replaced
or
disposed
of?
And
things
like
that
and
do
you
have
any
suggestions
as
far
as
what
the
state
needs
to
do
to
have
a
safeguard
to
protect
our
citizens
for
once
these
go
in
place
because,
as
you
will
know,
production
agriculture
is
important
to
myself
and
others,
and
once
we
take
that
out
of
production
agriculture,
I
don't
know
if
it'll
ever
go
back
once
something's
taken
out,
it
typically
doesn't
go
back.
So
do
you
have
any
any
golden
wisdom?
G
I
don't
have
any
golden
wisdom.
We
I
get
asked
a
lot
that
very
question
about
what
should
we
do
and
I
get
that
ask
from
farmers.
As
you
know,
I
live
in
a
rural
community
and,
and
my
family's
been
farmers
forever
and
but
what
I
tell
them
is
is
when
you're,
when
you're
signing
up
for
solar,
make
sure
there's
some
kind
of
reclamation
at
the
end
of
your
contract.
G
When
you
put
a
20-year
contract
in
place,
make
sure
you've
got
some
kind
of
reclamation
in
there
where
this
or
the
company
can't
just
walk
away
and
leave
you
a
field
full
of
of
you
know:
I-beam
sticking
up
out
of
the
ground
and
and
some
hazardous
chemicals
in
the
in
the
solar
panels
that
you've
got
to
dispose
of.
B
Okay-
and
I
guess
going
back
to
that
as
far-
do
you
think
at
the
state
level,
if
there
should
be
any
in
place,
I
mean
we
talk
about
the
coal
mines
and
making
sure
we
have
something
in
the
event
that
a
coal
mine,
you
know,
abandoned
coal
mine
things
like
that
of
reclamation.
G
A
And
I
will
also
say
just
follow
up.
I
think
kentucky
has
been
obviously
you've
seen
the
regulation
we
love
to
throw
on
coal
and
everybody
else
that
I
think
that
there's
opportunities
for
solar
in
kentucky,
but
they
will
fall
under
the
same
guidelines
and
and
scrutiny
that
we've
done
to
coal
natural
gas,
everybody
else.
A
So
we
we
want
good
partners
in
the
state
kentucky,
but
we
want
responsible
partners
and
we're
not
going
to
leave
anybody
neglected
that
decides
that
they
want
to
come
in
and
and
and
do
this
and
not
consider
that
we're
going
to
make
sure
that
these
things
are
cleaned
up
whenever
they
leave
bob.
Thank
you
go
ahead,
your
presentation
and
if
we've
got
other
questions,
we
can
ask
you
at
the
end,
but
we'll
try
to
get
back
on
our
timeline
here.
Thanks.
Okay,.
H
G
G
Yeah,
it
doesn't
look
like
it's
going
to
come
up
so,
mr
chairman,
if
it's
okay
I'd
be
glad
to
email
that
the
video
out
to
whoever
would
would
want
to
see
it.
A
Yeah,
please
dudes,
I
think
we'd
be
interested
in
seeing
it.
We
appreciate
you
putting
it
together
for
us
today.
I
apologize
for
the
technical
difficulties.
If
you
will
members,
we
we
have
represented
chairman
gooch
has
got
a
question
for
you:
okay,.
D
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
bob
thanks
for
everything
you
do
with
big
rivers
you're
in
my
area
and
and
have
been
great
citizens
there
for
for
a
very
long
time,
and
I'm
glad
that
you're
able
to
replace
that
century
load
and
and
really
you
know,
carry
on
because
that's
we
we
need
you
there,
but
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
having
a
little
bit
of
difficulty
with
is
I
don't
have
a
problem
with
you
guys.
D
You
know,
as
a
utility
in
kentucky
going
out
and
developing
some
solar
to
you
know
to
meet
the
demand
that
some
of
your
customers
are
asking
for,
but
I
think
what
people
don't
realize
is
what
we're
talking
about
here
today
and
you
know
you're
regulated
by
the
public
service
commission.
But
what
we're
talking
about
now
is
all
this
merchant
solar,
where
people
are
actually
harassing
our
farmers
trying
to
lease
their
land
and
develop
a
really
large
solar
fields
of
merchant
solar.
D
That's
then
sold
into
the
mysore
in
pjm
grid,
unregulated
by
the
public
service
commission.
The
only
thing
that
I
think
they
may
do
is
on
the
siding
board.
They
may
have
the
you
know
they
may
kind
of
be
in
charge
of
helping
get
that
started,
but
they
really
have
no
regulation
and
where
I'm
starting
to
have
problems.
D
We
talk
about
resiliency
and
and
to
me.
Reliability
to
me
is
the
ability
to
generate
electricity
when
it's
needed
and,
as
you
said,
resiliency
is
being
able
to
generate
electricity.
When
you
have
these
huge,
you
know
temperature
changes
and,
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
in
order
to
have
that
reliable
net
resiliency,
we
have
to
have
base
load
generation
and
what
I'm
concerned
about
is
when
we
allow
these
unregulated
solar
entities
to
sell
power
to
my
soul.
D
They
are
in
essence,
taken
away
power
that
might
have
been
sold
from
a
base
load
generator,
and
I'm
just
wondering
at
some
point:
that's
got
to
affect
the
the
viability
of
those
base
load,
generators
that
aren't
already.
D
You
know
slated
to
be
closed,
the
ones
that
want
to
stay
open.
You
know
their
their
ability
to
stay
open
and
let
me
just
give
you
an
example
and
I'll
make
it
kind
of
a
long
question,
but
I
just
came
back
from
the
southern
states,
energy
board
in
oklahoma
city
and
and
when
they
had
the
polar
vortex
back
in
whenever
it
was
earlier.
This
year
they
have
about
40
percent
of
their
electricity
comes
from
wind
and
they
have
about
40
that
comes
from
natural
gas
and
10
from
coal.
D
And
then
you
know
some
of
the
other
things
you
know,
hydro
and
and
and
solar
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
when
the
polar
vortex
hit
their
windmill
blades
all
froze
up
because
of
the
freezing
fog,
a
lot
of
their
well
heads
on
the
natural
gas
size,
side
froze
up
and
they
were
able
to
keep
their
lights
on
because
they
took
that
ten
of
coal
that
they
were
accustomed
to
and
those
generators
provided
them
54
of
their
power.
To
get
through
that
situation,
and-
and
my
question
is:
how
can
a
unit?
D
That's
that's
only
getting
10
of
the
market
be
able
to
remain
viable
where
they
can
sit
there
and
be
able
to
ramp
up
five
times
to
production.
Can
they
do
that?
You
know
when,
when
all
the
power
is
being
sold
somewhere
else
and
they're,
not
getting
those
sales,
I
I
don't
know
if
you
unders.
If
I
phrased
my
question
right
or
not,
but.
G
No
you're
right
on
target
you're
spot
on
it's
difficult
to
keep
a
cold
plant
running
at
10
percent.
We've!
That's!
Why
we're
converting
our
green
unit,
I
will
say
in
kentucky
the
kentucky
public
service
commission
has
always
favored
having
steel
in
the
ground
rather
than
relying
on
the
market,
and
that's
what
happens
a
lot
of
times
with
these
merchant
solar
plants,
they're
they're,
hoping
you're
going
to
rely
on
the
market
and
not
have
steel
in
the
ground.
G
When
we
went
to
the
commission
with
that
project,
it
was
essentially
the
same
price
wise
to
either
lean
on
the
market
or
convert
it
to
gas,
but
the
risk
of
converting
to
gas
was
much
less
much
less
than
the
risk
of
leaning
on
the
market
and
and
what
and
most
of
those
solar
projects
that
I
just
mentioned
to
you.
That's
in
the
queue
most
of
those
solar
projects
are
just
merchant
projects.
G
You
know
so
you're
right,
but
we're
all
leaning
on
our
coal
and
that's
why
I
believe
in
2024
you're
going
to
be
glad
you
have
coal.
While
we
have
30
percent
about
33
percent
actually
of
renewable
energy
in
our
capacity
side,
when
you
look
at
the
actual
energy
with
that,
we
generate
we're
only
generating
about
22
percent
of
renewable
energy,
most
of
the
energy
we're
still
leaning
on
coal
for
the
majority
of
our
energy.
D
And
one
other
thing
that's
happening
too.
You
know,
I
think,
on
january
the
20th
of
this
year
I
had
our
staff
get
together
and
write
down
the
prices
of
some
of
the
energy
commodities
and
that
sort
of
thing
as
far
as
the
price
of
gasoline,
that
was
probably
you,
know,
1.80
something
then
that's
now
over
315,
320
or
whatever,
and
we've
seen
natural
gas
go
up.
What
is
today
about
six
dollars,
maybe
somewhere
in
that
range.
I.
D
G
Ahead,
if
I
could
add
one
thing
there,
mr
chairman,
so
there's
a
real
disconnect
between
the
gas
market
in
the
power
markets
and
and
that's
got
to
be
corrected
and
and
what
a
lot
of
the
things
that
you
saw
in
california,
you
see
in
texas,
you
see
in
some
of
these
other
states
and
we
even
saw
it
in
kentucky
in
2014
during
the
polar
vortex.
So
we
have
these
stream
extreme
weather
events,
a
lot
of
the
gas
either
gets
interrupted
or
the
price
goes
up.
G
D
Yeah
one
more
question,
mr
chairman:
I
know
we're
getting
kind
of
low
bob
we're
expecting
that
we
may
get
a
lot
of
money
from
millions
of
dollars
from
the
federal
money
and
infrastructure,
and
some
of
it
would
be
to
help
improve
the
grid
system.
And
my
question
to
you
is:
if
we
were
to
receive
this
money
in
kentucky,
where
is
the
best
place
for
the
legislature
to
appropriate
this
money
to
ensure
we
make
the
right
investments
to
improve
kentucky's
grid
system
for
consumers?
G
That
gets
a
little
deeper
but
sure,
but
I
will
tell
you:
we
need
some
additional
transmission
for
our
electric
system,
but
you
still
have
to
have
generators.
You
know.
Solar
and
wind
power
does
not
generate
static
bars
and
you
have
to
have
static
bars,
power
plants.
If
you
look
at
power
plant
they're
not
just
thrown
out
there
because
some
place.
Somebody
said
that
that's
where
I
want
to
put
it,
you
look
at
our
power
plants.
Where
were
they
right
beside
the
smelters
right?
G
A
I
see
no
other
questions
at
this
time,
but
we
will
take
your
video
and
we'll
try
to
email
a
link
to
that
to
all
the
members,
so
they
can
watch
the
presentation
that
you
brought
for
us
today
and
if
you
have
no
further
comments
and
we
thank
you
for
coming.
A
Bob
all
right,
this
time
we
have,
let's
see
carrie
johnson,
the
division
of
water.
I
don't
see
I'm
sorry.
Where
are
they
oh
they're
online
you're
on
zoom,
okay,.
A
Hi,
can
you
hear
me
we
can
we
can
hear
you,
we
see
great
slide
this
up
right
now
in
front
of
us.
Do
you
have
anybody
else
joining
you
for
your
presentation.
F
Just
just
myself
for
the
short
presentation
today
and
then
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions
from
either
the
co-chairs
or
the
committee
all
right,
very
good,
we'll
turn
it
over
to
you.
Carrie
take
off!
Thank
you.
Thank
you
well
good
afternoon
committee
members.
My
name
is
carrie
johnson.
I'm
the
director
of
the
kentucky
division
of
water
within
the
energy
and
environment
cabinet
and
I'll
be
sharing
a
short
presentation
today,
but
basically
providing
an
overview
and
an
opportunity
about
the
kentucky
dam
safety
program
and
proposed
updates
that
the
cabinet
has
drafted
for
cares.
F
151,
so
I'll
make
the
transition
to
my
slides,
which
I
should
be
able
to
flip
through
pretty
easily
here
so
keras
151
is
a
long-standing
statute
and
actually
provides
the
energy
environment
cabinet,
broad
authority
for
several
different
activities.
F
So
some
of
the
terminology
that
is
inherent
in
the
statutory
language
needs
to
be
updated
just
to
reflect
current
industry
practices
and
current
programs.
In
fact,
some
of
the
language
within
parts
of
151
haven't
been
revised
since
the
70s
and
the
80s.
F
So
what
we
are
hoping
to
do,
what
we
are
proposing
to
do,
as
not
only
the
division
of
water
but
with
our
partners
in
the
department
for
environmental
protection
within
the
energy
environment
cabinet,
are
looking
to
basically
bring
those
statutes
up
to
industry
standard
when
it
comes
to
language,
but
repeal
any
statute
that
have
been
made
by
obsolete
by
any
federal
code
or
regulations
that
have
been
promulgated
over
the
past
30
or
40
years
or
so.
F
The
the
major
update
to
the
proposed
language
within
krs151
is
an
addition
to
existing
language,
and
that
is
a
requirement
for
dam
owners
to
draft
emergency
action
plans
for
those
dams
that
are
classified
at
either
high
or
significant
hazard,
and
what
the
cabinet
would
propose.
There
is
to
work
with
those
stem
owners
with
a
phased
implementation
via
regulation.
F
That
would
basically
give
those
dam
owners
a
glide
path
in
order
to
help
meet.
I'm
not
only
drafting
the
emergency
action
plans,
but
to
work
with
the
cabinet
and
utilize
some
of
the
tools
that
we've
developed
and
that's
largely
what
the
presentation
today
focuses
on.
I
mentioned
damn
hazard
classifications.
You
know.
F
One
of
the
things
I
want
to
make
very
clear
is
that
a
hazard
classification
when
it
comes
to
a
dam
isn't
related
to
the
condition
of
the
whether
the
dam
is
imminently
failing
or
whether
it's
the
most
well
constructed
dam
in
the
commonwealth
of
the
hazard
classification
is
based
on
the
implications.
Should
the
dam
fail
and
largely
we
classify
dams
within
the
commonwealth
and
with
three
different
classifications.
F
F
Those
dams
are
inspected
by
the
division
water
each
and
every
year
those
high
hazard
dams,
significant
hazard
dams
are
located
such
that
failure
may
cause
loss
of
a
major
piece
of
infrastructure
or
significant
damage
to
property,
but
loss
of
human
life
wouldn't
be
anticipated
and
we
inspect.
Those
stems.
Every
three
years,
so,
on
a
three
year
cycle,
our
dam
safety
personnel,
doing
a
full-blown
inspection
and
certificate
of
inspection
on
each
of
those
structures.
F
And
then
finally,
we
have
those
low
hazard,
classified
dams
and
those
are
the
structures
that
are
built
mainly
in
such
a
manner
that
they,
if
they
were
to
fail,
they
would
fill
right
into
the
the
down
stream,
river
or
creek,
and
we
wouldn't
anticipate
any
type
of
major
damage
with
any
type
of
failure
with
those
structures
and
the
cabinet
inspects.
Those
stems
on
a
five
year
cycle.
F
I
think
it's
also
important
for
us
to
you
know,
clearly
define
what
is
considered
a
dam
as
outlined
in
chaos
151,
and
it's
a
pretty
simple
classification.
F
F
An
acre
foot,
basically
one
acre
foot,
is
a
an
amount
of
water,
one
acre
in
size.
That
is
one
foot
deep.
So
you,
in
order
to
do
the
calculations
for
50
acre
feet,
it
could
be
a
50,
acre
structure,
one
foot,
deep,
a
25,
acre
structure,
two
feet
deep
and
and
so
forth,
but
basically
depending
upon
the
size
of
the
reservoir.
That's
impounded
by
the
structure
or
the
height
of
the
dam
is
how
the
cabinet
classifies
whether
a
dam
should
be
regulated.
F
We
get
that
authority
through
provisions
in
cairo's
151
and
that's
mainly
outlined
in
krs
151
250
through
299,
and
applies
to
all
bands
in
kentucky,
except
for
those
owned
by
the
u.s
army
corps
of
engineers
or
the
tennessee
valley
authority,
and
the
reason
that
the
the
division
doesn't
regulate.
The
federal
structures
is
because
the
the
federal
dam
safety
regulations
are
actually
actually
more
strict
than
the
state
requirements
are,
so
we
default
to
those
federal
agencies
for
ownership
and
operations
and
maintenance
and
inspections
of
those
dams.
F
We
also
work
with
our
friends
on
the
other
side
of
the
cabinet
in
the
department
for
natural
resources
for
surface
mining
related
dams.
So
those
structures
that
are
constructed
as
part
of
the
smacker
permit
must
also
meet
requirements
that
are
outlined
in
keras
151
and
the
resultant
regulations
in
401
k.
Our
chapter
4,
but,
as
I
mentioned,
our
friends
in
dnr,
those
dance
fall
under
their
purview.
F
One
of
the
things
that
the
cabinet
has
worked
on
over
the
past
year,
or
so
is
we've
developed
some
fairly
robust
mapping,
tools
and
I'll
I'll
go
through
some
of
those
tools
in
subsequent
slides,
but
based
on
our
analysis,
which
does
include
some
assumptions
but
based
on
the
analysis
that
we
conducted
high
hazard
on
high
hazard
damage
across
the
commonwealth
about
one
percent
of
the
state's
population
about
45,
000,
kentuckians
and
kentuckians
live
downstream
of
a
high
hazard
dam,
we're
in
a
damn
inundation
zone.
F
So
we've
we've
taken
it
upon
ourselves
as
a
division
and
cabinet
to
coordinate
very
closely
with
emergency
management
agencies
across
the
commonwealth
to
help
not
only
get
the
word
out
but
to
form
partnerships
on
managing
and
communicating
the
inherent
risks
associated
with
dams
just
real
quickly.
We
have
about
a
thousand
dams.
In
fact,
I
think
the
the
actual
numbers
about
970
dams
and
115
of
kentucky's
120
counties
across
the
commonwealth
of
those
180
are
those
high
hazard
dams,
those
dams
that
should
they
fail.
F
And
127
significant
hazard
dams,
so
those
dams
should
a
failure
occur.
We
would
anticipate
some
type
of
loss
of
significant
property
or
infrastructure,
but
not
necessarily
a
loss
of
life,
and
you
can
see
that
they're
very
well
scattered
across
the
the
commonwealth,
maybe
with
a
few
barren
areas
so
to
speak
in
in
the
knobs
region,
are
which
makes
a
lot
of
sense,
because
it's
it's
never
good
to
build
a
dam
on
a
sinkhole
and
subsequently
in
eastern
kentucky,
where
we
have
water
resources
that
may
not
require
impoundments.
F
So
what
the
cabinet
does,
whenever
we
go
out
and
do
our
damn
inspections
and
again
high
hazard
dams,
we
inspect
every
year,
significant
hazard
dams,
we
inspect
every
three
years
and
low
hazard
once
every
five
years.
We
do.
We
have
some
established
criteria
that
we
utilize
to
perform.
What's
called
a
conditions
assessment,
and
this
conditions
assessment
is
a
it's
an
assessment
conducted
by
our
engineers
in
the
dam
safety
program.
That
does
give
some
inclination
on
the
actual
structure
or
how
this
we
would
anticipate
the
structure
behaving
under
glow
and
by
under
load.
F
So
using
our
conditions,
assessment
criteria,
we
focus
on
high
and
significant
hazard
dams
and
we
found
that
a
fair
number
of
those
structures
are
in
like
a
condition
that
is
less
desirable,
so
to
speak,
and
I
would
point
towards
those
that
are
classified
as
poor
or
unsatisfactory
as
those
dams
which
are
a
higher
priority
in
needing
some
type
of
rehabilitation
and
when
it
comes
to
dam,
related,
rehabilitation,
there's
a
whole
spectrum
of
things
that
could
be
conducted
in
order
to
reduce
dam,
related
risks,
and
that
range
every
ranges
from
everything
from
property
buyouts
to
capital
construction
on
the
dam.
F
But
we
do
these
rankings
in
order
to
help
communicate
the
needs
to
not
only
the
dam
owners,
but
the
dam
safety
and
emergency
management
officials
should
a
damn
related
incident
occur
and
in
fact
we
had
an
incident
just
this
past
spring
in
the
city
of
jackson,
in
brethren
county
on
pamble
lake
dam,
it
was
a
luckily
the
emergency
situation
panned
out
to
where
there
wasn't
a
significant
loss
of
life
or
property.
F
C
F
To
speak,
an
emergency
action
plan
is
basically
a
document
that
outlines
responsibilities
for
dam
owners.
Damn
regulatory
agencies
like
the
division
of
water
and
emergency
management
agencies,
whether
that's
local,
regional
or
statewide.
F
Really,
the
goals
of
emergency
action
plan
is
to
encourage
development
of
those
documents,
but
really
to
encourage
skin
in
the
game
by
all
players
across
the
dam
related
spectrum
and
again,
that's
owners.
That's
emergency
management
and
regulatory
agencies.
F
It's
a
nationwide
association
that
actually
has
their
executive
office
in
our
backyard
of
lexington
kentucky
the
association
of
state
dam
safety
officials,
and
we
work
real
closely
with
those
folks
to
leverage
the
information
they
have
available
when
it
comes
to
outreach,
but
also
to
get
the
general
word
out
related
to
dam
safety
when
it
comes
to
emergency
action
plans
really
there's
five
main
components.
F
Some
of
my
engineers
may
shoot
me
for
generalizing
that,
but
I
like
to
compartmentalize
things
that
that
are
fairly
easy
to
understand
and
and
a
five-part
plan
that
ranges
from
everything
from
responsibilities
to
how
and
who
is
notified
and
when
they're
notified
to
an
actual
description
of
a
dam
to
the
inundation
mapping
that
is
conducted
culminates
in
that
emergency
action
plan
that
can
be
leveraged
not
only
by
dam
owners
but
the
local
emergency
management
planning
committees
within
county
emergency
operations
plans.
F
So
that's
been
part
of
our
messaging
with
the
emergency
management
community,
is
allow
us
to
work
with
you,
folks,
in
your
lepc's
and
in
your
county
emergency
operations
plan,
so
that
we
can
help
manage
these.
Damn
related
risks
more
holistically
and
we've
been
successful
in
doing
that,
we've
had
several
conversations
with
local
and
regional
emergency
managers,
but
the
eap
process
is,
you
know,
it's
considered
a
fairly
daunting
one,
because
it
does
require
action
not
only
by
the
dam
owner,
but
also
the
regulatory
agency
and
the
emergency
management
agency.
F
H
F
Dams
have
the
inundation
mapping
that
would
be
required
to
be
utilized
in
an
emergency
action
plan.
We've
provided
a
link.
Anyone
can
go
in
and
view
these
plans
and
we've
actually
gone
in
and
identified
using
some
digital
building
polygon
data,
those
structures
that
would
be
potentially
impacted
by
a
dam
failure.
So
all
that's
available
on
our
web
viewer
we've
provided
the
web
link
here
and
I
believe
that's
going
to
be
provided
to
the
committee.
F
So
it
would.
We
would
be
remiss
if
we
didn't
mention
the
execution
piece
of
emergency
action
plan
and
that
really
involves
the
training
and
the
exercise
piece
and
as
a
cabinet
where
the
energy
environment
happened.
Division,
water
would
really
look
to
engage
our
partners
in
emergency
management
and
dam
owners
to
implement
the
eaps,
but
also
to
develop
scheduling
and
exercise
programs
to
ensure
that
the
eaps
are
not
only
functional
but
remain
up
to
date.
F
One
of
the
worst
things
that
you
can
have
in
an
emergency
is
a
plan
that
is
no
longer
viable
because
the
contact
information
has
either
changed
or
there's
been
major
development
in
a
community
and
the
evacuation
routes
are
different
than
what
they
were
before
so
a
plan
to
not
only
develop
the
plan
so
to
speak,
but
a
plan
to
keep
the
plan
updated
is
is
required,
and
you
know
when
it
comes
to
executing
those
actual
exercises.
H
F
Then
we
move
on
to
functional
exercises,
which
are
those
which
actually
engage
stakeholders
in
a
personalized
setting,
but
don't
go
through
a
full-blown
exercise
and
that's
the
culmination
of
what
an
eap
exercise
would
be
would
be
a
full-scale
exercise,
and
generally,
we
would,
you
know,
recommend
these
for
large
core
type
structures,
although
it's
always
good
to
have
the
the
three
different
levels
of
considered
in
any
eap,
that's
developed.
F
So
getting
to
the
end
here-
and
I
know-
we've
got
a
lot
of
information
on
the
slide.
F
There's
no
way
I'll
be
able
to
read
it
on
everyone,
but
we
did
want
to
provide
some
information
on
some
tools
and
resources
that
the
cabinet
has
developed
just
over
the
past
few
years,
that
can
be
leveraged
and
can
be
brought
to
the
table
so
to
speak
for
game
owners
to
help
in
this
process,
the
first
being
the
digital
mapping
tools,
we
have
access
to
damn
inundation
mapping
tools
that
are
not
only
usable
but
are
very
responsive,
so
we've
got
established
partnerships
with
fema
and
with
the
national
center
for
computational
hydroscience
at
the
university
of
mississippi,
where
we
can
engage
a
supercomputer
to
basically
support
our
inundation
mapping
initiatives.
F
We've
also
developed
a
state
specific
emergency
action
template
so
that
we
would
be
happy
to
share
with
dam
owners
and
stakeholders
and
and
what
we
hope
to
accomplish
with
this
is
a
simplification
on
the
process
to
allow
dam
owners
to
basically
start
the
process
50
to
60
percent
complete
in
developing
with
not
necessarily
executing
the
emergency
action
plan
and
then
finally,
we
have
a
considerable
amount
of
expertise
over
75
years
culmination
culmination
of
expertise
in
our
dam
safety
program.
B
It's
more
of
a
comment,
thanks
carrie,
for
continuing
to
bring
this
issue
forward.
I've
carried
many
bills
in
the
last
20
years
regarding
eap
and
dam
safety.
So
it's
it's
a
good
thing.
It's
much
needed
and
I
appreciate
the
attention
to
the
issue.
Thank
you.
A
A
Right,
the
last
of
our
presentation
looks
like
there
were
some
rags
that
we're
going
to
take
that,
but
we're
not
today
we're
going
to
give
the
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
only
time
to
review
those.
But
we
do
have
a
report
and
I
think
we've
got
the
deputy
commissioner.
Brian.
Are
you
online
right
now
with
us?
A
A
Hey
welcome
to
natural
resources.
Do
you
want
to
just
quickly
go
over
touch
on
the
reports
we
have
today
in
front
of
us.
C
C
A
A
H
Please,
maybe
you
can
answer,
maybe
you
can't
are
hunting
license
increasing
or
decreasing?
Is
there
more
or
is
there
less
enthusiasm
about
hutton
nowadays
than
there
was
say
a
hundred
years
ago,
when
I
was
a
kid.
C
That's
an
excellent
question:
yeah
state
statewide,
we
have
a
a
long-term
decline,
so
there's
a
a
long-term
decline
since
the
1980s
we've
had
some
areas,
for
example,
of
deer
hunting
by
non-residents,
the
availability
of
elk
hunting
permits
and
some
other
specific
areas
where,
in
recent
years,
we've
had
an
uptick
in
interest
in
sales,
but
both
nationwide
and
statewide,
the
the
total
participation
has
declined
and
as
a
percentage
of
the
population,
our
pers,
our
participation
rates,
have
declined
as
well.
C
So
we're
we're
working
hard
to
address
that
we
have
programs
in
place
like
other
state
fish
and
wildlife
agencies,
called
recruitment
retention
and
reactivation
or
r3
programs
that
are
designed
to
reach
out
to
not
only
youth
like
we've
done
historically
but
increasingly
more
diverse
audiences,
including
urban
audiences,
to
try
to
get
more
people
participating
in
fishing
and
hunting.
C
But,
yes
to
answer
your
question,
we
have
long-term
declines,
that
is
in
total
numbers
of
participants
and
also
as
a
percentage
of
the
population.
C
That
that
is
an
issue.
We
don't
directly
track
that
or
inventory
that
per
se.
We
do
ask
questions
in
in
frequent
customer
surveys.
We
we
typically
have
hunting
and
phishing
license
customer
service
that
we
do
each
each
year
or
depending
on
the
customer
segment
every
few
years,
and
we
do
ask
questions
about
the
types
of
land
they
hunted
public
versus
private
and,
of
course
we
get
local
information
like
what
county
they
hunted
in
primarily
or
fished
in
information
like
that.
C
But
we
don't.
We
don't
really
ask
usually
about
the
changes
in
availability
and
we
don't
have
a
direct
way
to
track
access
to
private
lands
and
so
that
that's
a
challenging
topic
for
us
and
we'd
love
to
have
more
detailed
information,
but
we
just
don't
have
capacity
to
to
track
that.
There's
a
lot
of
turnover
in
private
lands,
especially
smaller
properties,
non-farm
properties.
C
H
I
have
one
other
question,
mr
chairman:
please.
C
H
Bringing
the
elk
back
into
kentucky
and
and
also
the
deer
populations,
are
getting
bigger,
have
any
farmers
or
any
of
them,
been
complaining
about
their
crop
being
destroyed
by
these
animals?
Or
is
this
the
family
not
become
a
problem
anymore?.
C
That's
that's
a
good
question
too,
because
our
elk
population,
you
know,
has
grown
over
the
last
25
years.
You
know,
since
we've
had
the
restoration
program
from
1997
to
2002,
but
we've
actually
seen
in
the
case
of
the
elk
we've
actually
seen
the
elk
become
as
they've
been
hunted
and
pursued
more
by
hunters,
they've
become
more
remote
and
more
force-dwelling,
and
so
they're
actually
more
away
from
human
habitation
and
from
agriculture
than
they
were
originally
so
in
the
case
of
the
elk,
we've
actually
seen
less
problems
less
damage
from
them.
C
In
the
case
of
a
deer,
I
would
describe
it
as
fairly
consistent
that
is
fairly
stable,
statewide
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
damage
we
have
from
deer.
We
work
with
landowners.
As
you
may
know,
we
we
have
a
couple
of
different
ways
that
we
work
with
landowners
to
encourage
hunting
as
a
means
of
of
managing
that
you
know
damage
those
nuisance
problems.
One
of
those
is
to
administer
crop
depredation
permits
where
they
can
then
provide
those
in
turn.
C
The
landowner
can
give
them
to
lawful
hunters
and
have
the
hunters
you
know,
reduce
the
population
there,
which
has
economic
benefits
for
the
local
economy,
helps
the
farmer
out
by
reducing
the
deer
numbers
and
that
kind
of
thing,
but
I
would
say,
on
the
whole,
across
the
state,
it's
fairly
stable,
our
deer
numbers
statewide
are
stable
at
about
you
know
we
estimate
between
750
000
and
a
million.
That's
again
it's
one
of
those
things.
We
you
can't
go
out
and
count
the
deer
numbers.
C
We
have
various
ways
of
indexing:
the
population
of
studying,
monitoring
the
trends
but
based
on
our
population
models,
we're
showing
a
fairly
stable
trend.
Statewide
in
the
deer
numbers,
our
biggest
largest
numbers.
The
most
dense
populations
are
what
we
call
zone.
One
counties
where
you
have
the
most
liberal
deer
seasons,
the
harvest,
opportunities,
statewide
and
hunters
can
actually
in
those
counties
which
is
primarily
central
kentucky
and
western
kentucky
selected
counties
where
there
is
a
lot
of
agriculture.
C
Hunters
have
opportunity
to
harvest
unlimited,
does
unlimited
antlerless
deer
and
the
typical
hunter,
usually
only
hunts
or
harvests,
one
or
two
antlerless
or
antler
deer.
Each
year
a
total,
and
so
it's
actually
a
challenge
to
get
hunters
to
to
harvest
more
than
a
couple
of
deer,
but
those
depredation
permits
that
we
provide
to
farmers
who
report
crop
damage
helps
in
that
regard.
They
can
incentivize
hunters
that
want
to
come
and
harvest
more
does
to
come
to
their
property.
So
it's
a
it's
a
mutually
beneficial
thing.
H
Well,
thank
you
for
that
debra.
I
I
want
to
congratulate
fish
and
wildlife
for
the.
F
H
Job
they've
done
on
restoring
animals,
and
particularly
deer
and
elk
and
turkeys
and
so
forth.
When
I
was
a
kid
growing
up,
my
all
my
dad's
people
were
farmers
and
they
were
meat.
Hunters
and
you
know
a
rabbit
across
their
land.
H
He'd
have
to
pack
a
lunch
or
something
because
he's
gonna
be
shot
somewhere
before
before
he
got
off
of
there
and
there
were
times,
but
of
course,
there
were
no
turkeys
left
in
kentucky
at
one
time
and
and
but
I
congratulate
you
all
for
the
great
job
y'all
have
done.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Thank.
C
You,
sir,
we're
very
proud
of
our
staff
and,
of
course
we
have
a
lot
of
partners.
The
support
of
the
legislature
is
vital
in
a
lot
of
different
ways,
from
regulations
to
policies
that
support
our
conservation
efforts
and
private
landowners,
and
farmers
are
also
vital,
as
well
as
non-profit
organizations.
So
thank
you.
A
A
There
was
no
game
and
I
will
have
to
say
people
like
doug
hensley
and
many
other
people,
fish
and
wildlife
really
buckled
down
and
brought
back
a
thriving
industry
force,
but
I
can
remember
having
to
travel
to
credendon
or
somewhere
in
central
kentucky
or
or
northern
kentucky,
to
be
able
to
hunt
deer
from
the
mountains
of
eastern
kentucky.
So
they've
done
an
amazing
job,
but
we
don't
have
so
much
getting
into
crops.
A
But
what
we
do
have
is
our
elk
get
into
the
cemeteries
and
they
get
into
some
of
these
old
cemeteries
and
they'll
step
through
an
old
grave
and
so
we'll
have
we
get
calls
from
time
to
time.
I'm
sure
senator
webb's
probably
had
a
couple
of
them.
Where
you'll
have
somebody
really
hot
at
you
about
a
elk?
A
Here
here
to
doc,
those
guys
took
a
task
that
was
really
pretty
bleak
and-
and
you
still
had
a
lot
of
people
hunting
for
game,
then
so
as
soon
as
they
could
get
anything
stocked
back
in
it,
it'd
be
cleared
out,
and
so
they
really
had
to
to
play
both
a
tough
hand.
Issue
with
a
lot
of
the
local
population,
keep
them
from
harvesting
it
enough
for
us
to
get
a
crop
back,
so
not
an
easy
job,
but
one
certainly
well
done
for
fish
and
wildlife.
A
A
Thank
you
for
the
patience
of
all
the
members
of
our
meeting
today.
I
know
it
ran
a
little
bit
longer
than
what
we
normally
do.
Does
anybody
have
any
questions
for
our
fish
and
wildlife
guests
before
we?
Let
him
step
up
all
right.
Does
any
of
our
members
have
any
questions
or
comments
as
we
close
senator
turner.
A
Sorry,
I
want
to
make
sure
yes,
senator
wheeler
came
in
that
we
make
sure
we
we
cover
him,
and
I
know
representative
wesley
had
had
tried
to
get
on
and
couldn't
as
well.
So
let's
make
sure
we
got
everybody
that
participated
logged
in
there.
As
far
as
having
credit
for
attending
today,
we'll
see
no
further
comments.
Coming
from
our
members,
we
with
motion
two.