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A
B
Gentry
representative
heart
here,
representative
Heff,
president
representative
Johnson,
where
is
it
representative,
King
present
representative
Kulkarni
representative
Lawrence?
Why,
yes,
representative
Lockett
representative
Roland
representative,
sharp
present
representative
Sheldon,
yes,
representative,
Tackett,
Lafferty,
representative
turitt
character,
Schroeder
coach
here
Weber
president.
A
I
was
not
aware
of
his
Senate
boycott
of
the
meeting
today,
but
we
will
remember
that
in
the
upcoming
session.
All
right
do
we
have
okay.
At
this
time
we
do
not
have
a
quorum.
We
will
act
on
the
minutes.
When
we
do,
we
will
have
two
sets
of
minutes
July
and
August
meetings
to
adopt,
but
we
will
move
on
with
the
agenda
at
this
time.
A
Folks,
if
you
will
introduce
yourself
for
the
official
record,
please
do
so
and
after
you've
done
that,
then
you
can
go
ahead
and
begin.
Your
presentation.
F
As
you
know,
hospitals
are
first
and
foremost,
places
where
people
go
for
Compassionate
Care
when
their
health
has
failed
or
when
they're
bringing
new
life
into
the
world.
So
restoring
health
saving
lives
and
helping
helping
bring
new
life
into
the
world
is
absolutely
the
mission
of
our
hospitals
and,
of
course,
patient
care
is
always
our
North
Star.
F
But
that
said,
hospitals
are
also
very
critical
economic
engines
in
the
communities
they
serve.
They
are
major
businesses
in
every
Community,
where
they're
located
hospitals
are
often
one
of
the
largest,
if
not
the
largest
employer,
in
the
counties
where
they're
located
hospitals
pay,
above
average
wages
and
those
wages
Ripple
through
the
communities.
The
hospitals
serve
in
the
form
of
houses
and
cars,
that
people
purchase,
groceries,
clothing,
entertainment
and
all
the
other
things
that
a
family
would
buy.
F
F
These
include
a
good
transportation
system,
a
good
education
system,
easy
access
to
Green,
Space
and
amenities
and
access
to
health
care.
All
of
these
things
are
critical
elements
for
a
thriving
economy
and
if
any
one
of
them
is
missing,
it
makes
Economic
Development
more
difficult.
The
loss
of
a
hospital
is
devastating
to
a
community.
When
our
lady
of
Bellefonte
hospital
closed
in
the
city
of
Russell
and
Greenup
County,
the
impact
was
sharp
and
immediate.
F
F
Strong
economy
is
very
key
to
good
health
and
the
social
determinants
of
Health,
such
as
nutritious
food,
safe
housing,
adequate
rest,
educational
opportunities
and
a
strong
social
support
network
are
all
supported
by
a
strong
economy.
The
wealth
of
a
community
is
a
good
indicator
of
the
health
of
a
community.
Wealth
and
health
are
inextricably
intertwined.
F
F
Kentucky
hospitals
lost
approximately
two
billion
dollars
during
the
pandemic
and
that's
from
a
combination
of
a
loss
of
the
elective
procedures
from
an
extended
shutdown
of
elective
procedures
and
then
from
a
large
number
of
coveted
patients
in
our
hospitals
whose
illnesses
tended
to
keep
them
in
the
hospital
longer.
They
required
more
resources
to
treat.
But
yet
the
payment
did
not
fully
cover
the
cost
of
care.
F
F
Hospitals
are
also
major
consumers
of
energy
and
food.
Electricity
costs
have
increased
by
11
and
a
half
percent
since
last
year
to
run
one
MRI
machine
for
13
hours
requires
the
same
amount
of
energy
that
850
people
would
use
in
that
same
amount
of
time,
expand
that
over
scores
of
machines,
elevators
lights,
environmental
controls,
even
the
TV
in
the
patient's
room,
and
you
can
see
how
much
money
that
means
U.S
energy
production
has
been
curtailed
and
we
have
all
felt
the
pain
at
the
gas
pump.
F
But
the
increasing
cost
of
petroleum
isn't
just
felt
at
the
gas
pump.
It's
felt
in
our
hospitals.
The
cost
of
exam
gloves
has
risen,
247
percent
in
this
last
year,
syringes
and
scores
of
other
disposable
items
that
hospitals
use
every
day
that
are
made
from
a
petroleum
base
have
become
more
expensive.
F
Think
for
a
moment
about
a
hospital
with
a
hundred
patients
and
beds
being
treated.
They
all
get
three
meals
a
day,
so
that's
300
meals.
Each
day
the
cost
of
eggs
is
up
40
since
last
year.
Coffee's
up
for
17
percent
and
poultry
is
up
about
10
percent.
So
again
you
can
just
see
how
the
costs
keep
mounting
up
quickly.
F
We
understand
that
the
general
assembly
doesn't
have
power
to
control
inflation
or
to
undo
the
ravages
of
the
pandemic.
However,
hospitals
have
to
be
able
to
do
well
financially
in
order
to
do
good
and
to
fulfill
their
mission
of
providing
Compassionate
Care
for
our
patients.
Your
constituents,
Kentucky
hospitals,
are
calling
on
the
general
assembly
to
be
our
partner
to
ensure
the
delivery
of
care.
Our
patients
and
your
constituents
need.
F
The
great
news
is
that
our
proposal
does
not
require
any
funds
from
the
state.
So
let
me
repeat
that
our
plan
doesn't
require
State
funds
to
help
our
Hospital
serve
our
patients,
working
in
conjunction
with
the
general
assembly
and
the
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services.
The
hospitals
seek
to
expand
the
current
Hospital
rate
Improvement
program,
which
we
refer
to
as
a
trip.
As
you
may
recall,
the
current
atrib
program
applies
to
Medicaid
inpatient
admissions.
F
The
program
allows
us
to
draw
additional
federal
dollars
to
increase
Medicaid
payment
to
a
rate
that's
closer
to
the
average
commercial
rate.
The
hrep
program
has
been
Innovative
and,
while
valuable
to
all
of
our
hospitals,
rural
and
urban
urban
hospitals
tend
to
have
significantly
more
inpatient
admissions.
F
What
KJ
proposes
is
to
expand
the
program
to
outpatient
treatment
and
that
will
help
all
of
our
hospitals,
but
it's
going
to
be
especially
beneficial
to
our
rural
hospitals.
We
expect
that
something
on
the
order
of
65
percent
of
the
benefits
of
this
expansion
would
endure
to
the
to
the
rural
hospitals.
F
Obviously,
these
revenues
would
be
a
godsend
to
our
struggling
rural
hospitals
and
certainly
go
a
long
way
to
help
improving
access
and
ensuring
access
in
rural
communities.
Just
like
the
current
version
of
atrip.
This
expansion
would
require
no
State
funds,
but
would
allow
the
hospitals
to
tap
into
these
Federal
resources.
F
F
F
Please
keep
your
local
hospital
in
mind
anytime,
you're,
thinking
about
ways
to
build
the
local
economy,
because
you're
going
to
find
the
hospital
leadership
will
be
a
key
Ally
in
its
growth
also
feel
free
to
call
on
us
anytime,
at
kha
as
well,
because
our
goal
is
a
Health
Care
system
that
serves
the
needs
of
all
kentuckians
and
we're
happy
to
take
any
questions.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you.
Do
we
have
any
any
members,
Senator
McDaniel.
E
I,
don't
know
that
I've,
you
know
and
I
appreciate
where
you're
coming
from
I've
worked
with
you
on
these
models
before
but
I'm
gonna
be
honest
with
you
over
the
course
of
the
last
decade
and
since
the
last
Bashir
Administration,
the
implementation,
the
Affordable
Care
Act
I,
don't
know
that
I've
seen
much
of
a
model
that
begs
almost
for
government
overtake
of
a
system.
E
When
you
look
at
your
Finance
model,
the
government's
financing,
a
tremendous
amount
of
this
when
you
look
at
your
commercial
pay
by
the
time
you
start
factoring
in
the
number
of
federal
retirees,
military
retirees
Etc,
who
are
in
private
run,
but
government
Health
Care
between
the
certificates
of
need,
the
rates
that
we've
rearranged
through
the
years.
The
federal
resources
guys
the
federal
budget
deficit
can
no
longer
continue
to
sustain
what
it's
doing
right
now.
E
I
am
greatly
fearful
that
we
are
on
a
catastrophic
course,
and
if
we
keep
going
back
to
this
Federal
well
we're
we
are
a
small
Cog
in
a
larger
wheel.
That's
leading
us
to
catastrophic
consequences
with
the
debt
that
the
nation's
incurring
and
the
deficits
that
we're
running
I'm
very
sympathetic,
especially
to
the
rural
plight
of
these
folks,
but
I
would
be
willing
to
bet
that
our
Urban
hospitals
would
not
be
so.
Keen
is
to
turn
over
audited
financial
statements
and
make
these
same
cases
and
I
love
our
guys
right.
I
love!
E
What
Chandler
does
I
love,
what
Saint
Elizabeth
does
up
home
and
what
Louisville's
done
with
their
takeover
from
Jewish
and
on
and
on,
but
guys
I
think
we're
starting
to
run
to
a
point
where
we've
got
to
say:
we
can
only
go
back
to
this
Federal
well,
so
long.
How
many
of
us
are
complaining
about
inflation
right
now?
How
many
of
us
are
watching
gas
prices,
Skyrocket
and
grocery
prices
Skyrocket?
E
At
some
point,
we've
got
to
take
a
hard
look
in
the
mirror
and
say:
how
are
we
contributing
to
this
and,
like
I,
say
it's
an
odd
space
for
me
to
be
in
because
I
love?
What
these
folks
do?
E
The
Innovation
that
the
private
sector
has
brought
to
the
Health
Care
system
has
Unleashed
cures
in
in
treatments
that
are
have
been
unknown
in
the
history
of
man,
but
we
get
time
to
start
asking
some
hard
questions
and
I
hope
that
you
guys
will
come
to
the
table
on
that,
and
we
won't
simply
sit
here
and
look
at
ourselves
in
isolation.
E
F
Would
just
say
senator
McDaniel
the
issue
for
us
is:
we
have
1.4
to
6
million
people
on
Medicaid
and
we're
getting
paid
80
percent
of
cost,
and
that
is
not
a
sustainable
model
for
our
hospitals.
This
program
is
innovative
and
this
program,
while
it
does
draw
on
federal
resources.
It
is
a
value-based
payment
system,
so
our
hospitals
have
a
portion
of
this
money
at
risk
and
quality
is
tied
to
it.
F
So
it's
not
just
a
matter
of
money
grab
from
the
federal
government
and
this
gets
approved
every
year
by
CMS,
so
there's
no
guarantee
that
CMS
is
going
to
continue
it,
but
CMS
wants
to
see
us
move
the
needle
on
quality
and
so
by
having
part
of
this
money
tied
to
specific
quality
metrics
and
we're
talking
about
across
all
hospitals,
acute
care,
long-term
care,
hospitals,
psych,
hospitals,
rehab,
hospitals-
and
you
know
nothing.
You
know,
hospitals
need
resources
to
invest
in
quality.
F
So
that's
what
this
program
brings
to
our
state
and
that's
why
we're
excited
about
it,
because
we
are
already
seeing
that
quality
improvement
in
in
the
current
program
and
we're
only
you
know
part
way
through
the
year.
So
I
think
that's
the
sell
for
for
CMS
is
that
it's
not
just
we're
going
to
give
you
more
money,
but
we
we,
as
hospitals,
have
to
demonstrate
that
we
are
going
to
improve
the
quality
of
care
and
that's
what
this
money
is
tied
to.
F
G
Yes,
thank
you.
So
about
a
month
and
a
half
ago,
my
mom
had
major
surgery
and
I
spent
a
long
time
at
Baptist,
Hospital
and
I'm,
so
grateful
for
the
quality
of
care
she
received,
and
you
know
that
she
was
able
to
recover
from
from
her
illness
what
I'm
thinking
about
and
kind
of
following
up
on
Senator
McDaniel's
question.
If
the
answer
isn't
pulling
more
money
in
from
other
sources,
how
much
of
the
problem
comes
from
our
current
Insurance
system?
G
How
much
of
the
cost
for
hospitals
comes
from
people
who
are
underinsured
or
not
insured,
who
don't
get
preventative
care
and
then
their
care
in
turn
is
so
much
more
expensive
because
we
haven't
prevented
something
that
could
have
been
prevented.
You
know,
is
the
question
not
to
pull
in
more
money,
but
do
we
need
to
restructure
our
insurance
system
altogether?
And
what
are
your
thoughts
on
that?
Well,.
F
Certainly,
we
support
more
preventive
care.
You
know
we
have
a
chronic.
Our
population
has
more
chronic
conditions
and
certainly
we
need
preventive
care.
We
don't
want
people
to
wait
to
the
last
minute
we're
seeing
more
delayed
care
actually
since
the
pandemic,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
when
80
percent
of
the
patients
in
a
hospital
are
on
these
government
programs
that
are
paying
less
than
cost
Kentucky.
F
You
know
the
Medicare
program
does
not
pay
every
state
the
same,
and
we
are
in
one
of
the
states
that
we
get
paid
a
lot
less
than
other
states
get,
and
yet
we
are
facing
the
same
labor
shortage.
The
same.
You
know,
rates
for
travel,
nurses
and
so
that
you
know
the
hospitals.
That
is
not
a
sustainable
model,
so
you
know
we
have
to
be
paid
adequately
for
the
services
we
provide
and
really
this
program
is
just
trying
to
get
us
closer
to
the
commercial
rate
for
at
least
the
Medicaid
Program.
F
G
If
I
may
ask
a
brief
follow-up,
so
could
you
explain
I'm
I
didn't
know?
I
was
not
aware
that
every
state
is
not
paid.
The
same
is
that
do
the
states
negotiate
rates
or.
F
G
F
F
Represent
a
hundred
118
hospitals.
A
F
F
Would
say
118
I
mean
even
our
larger
hospitals
that
you
would
think
are
very
financially
strong
are
struggling.
You
know
the
cares.
Money
from
the
pandemic
is
long
gone.
The
cares
money
didn't
cover
the
two
mil
two
billion
dollars
in
losses.
Then
we
have
inflation.
We
have
a
billion
dollars
this
year
in
travel,
nurses
and
I'm.
Having
even
large
systems.
Tell
me
you
know
that
these
costs
are
not
sustainable.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
We,
we
may
have
you
back
at
a
closer
to
the
session
I'm
assuming
you're,
going
to
be
having
a
bill
coming
forward
that
will
address
those.
We'll
probably
have
you
back
closer
to
the
session
to
discuss
in
Greater
detail
when
that
bill
is
released.
If,
if
you're
open
to
coming
back.
A
H
Absolutely
Mr
chairman
appreciate
the
invitation
today.
I
think
we've
got
Michael
pulled
up.
H
Okay,
yeah
thanks
Mr
chairman
for
the
invitation.
I
am
Chad,
harpole
I'm,
director
of
government
Affairs
with
Century
aluminum,
human
resources
for
Century
aluminum
and
our
colleague,
Michael
Earley,
will
be
joining
us
via
Zoom
here
very
shortly.
Michael
is
the
director
of
corporate
energy
for
Century
aluminum.
H
We
appreciate
the
invitation
today
to
come,
talk
to
you
and
give
you
an
update
on
Kentucky's
primary
aluminum
industry.
This
is
going
to
be
more
of
a
story
than
legislative
testimony,
but
we
think
it's
an
important
message
for
you,
as
as
policy
makers
to
understand,
particularly
moving
into
the
2023
session
I've
been
with
Century
aluminum
for
eight
years
now.
Prior
to
that,
I
was
with
the
Kentucky
Chamber
of
Commerce,
and
even
at
the
chamber,
knew
little
about
the
primary
aluminum
industry.
That's
nestled!
H
In
Western
Kentucky,
when
I
started
with
Century,
there
were
eight
operating
primary
aluminum
smelters
in
the
United
States
up
until
six
weeks
ago,
there
were
five
and
a
half
primary
smelters
operating
in
the
United
States,
and
what
is
a
primary
smelter?
Give
you
a
little
bit
of
overview
we
actually
take
and
make
the
raw
product
I
like
to
say
we
take
the
take
the
Illumina,
which
is
a
white
powder.
We
fuse
a
massive
amount
of
electricity
into
it
and
when
I
say
a
massive,
the
hospitals
were
talking
about
how
much
their
electric
bills
are.
H
We
use
more
power
per
day
than
the
City
of
Lexington
24,
7
365.,
and
the
hospital
set
it
up
very
nicely
for
us
talk
about
energy
prices
and
the
circumstances
that
we're
under
so
about
six
weeks
ago.
Unfortunately,
due
to
power
prices
and
we'll
get
in
a
little
more
detail,
we
had
to
curtail
production
at
our
Hallsville
plant
in
about
30
miles
east
of
Owensboro,
we
had
to
lay
off
620
employees
and
the
average
salary
and
benefits
for
those
employees
was
over
a
hundred
thousand
dollars,
so
extremely
high,
paying
jobs.
H
So
with
that
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
Kenneth
Callaway,
who
is
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
operations,
our
employment
situation
and
then
Michael
Earley
will
give
you
an
overview
on
energy
I.
Think
it's
very
important.
This
early
early's
testimony
might
be
a
little
more
focused
for
chairman
Gooch's
committee,
but
as
economic
development
committee,
it's
extremely
important.
We
think,
for
you
guys
to
understand
the
message
and
what
other
industrial
customers
are
facing
right
now.
I
Yeah
first
I
want
to
recognize
with
us.
We
have
both
of
our
Union
presidents,
Andy
Thompson
and
Andy
Reserve
from
our
both
our
Sebring
Hallsville
facility
and
they've,
been
true
partners
with
us
during
this
process
and
Through
the
Years
and
we're
grateful
for
for
the
partnership
we
have
with
them,
and
so
we
were
here
last
year
talking
as
Chad
said
about
our
two
smelters,
the
one
at
Hallsville,
the
one
at
Seabury,
unfortunately
I'm
here
today,
just
on
behalf
of
the
Sebree
facility.
I
From
that
perspective,
as
it
is
operational
and
you
may
ask,
what's
the
difference
between
the
Hallsville
and
the
Sea
Breeze
facility,
the
Hallsville
facility
primarily
produced
Sal
aluminum,
which
are
these
big
blocks
of
aluminum
that
you
have
to
remelt
to
turn
into
any
type
of
product.
So,
regardless
of
who
buys
these
big
blocks
of
aluminum,
they
have
to
throw
it
into
a
big
furnace.
They
have
to
heat
that
up
turn
it
back
into
liquid
again
and
turn
it
into
their
product.
I
Our
Sebring
facility,
on
the
other
end,
has
the
ability
to
produce
what
we
call
value-added
products,
so
they
can
produce
Billet,
which
you
may
see
these
long
aluminum
pole
type
pieces
of
aluminum
that
are
going
to
a
telephone.
Poles
shaped
pieces
of
aluminum
going
down
the
road
and
those
are
called
Billet
and
also
slab,
and
with
that
they're
able
to
run
that
through
an
extruder
or
through
some
type
of
a
roll
process
to
turn
it
into
product
which
takes
less
energy,
which
in
turn,
customers
provide
more
payment.
I
For
so
the
smelter
there
be
is
able
to
produce
that,
whereas
Hallsville
was
not
able
to
produce
that
and
halswell
just
didn't
have
the
the
ability,
the
infrastructure
to
be
able
to
produce
that
we
have
some
customers
here
in
Kentucky
as
well,
that
we
PR
that
we
produce
for
the
largest
one
is
Bray's
way
located
in
Hopkinsville
Kentucky.
They
make
Automotive
Parts,
they
make
HVAC
and
refrigeration
parts.
I
Mr
early
is
going
to
speak
here
in
a
few
minutes
about
the
the
escalating
cost
to
operate
one
of
our
smelters
here
in
Kentucky,
but
our
prices
have
more
than
tripled
for
electric
costs
here
in
the
state
of
Kentucky
and
which
is
not
a
sustainable
business
plan.
As
you
may
know,
aluminum
is
produced
and
sold
as
a
commodity.
I
And
so
our
our
opportunities
for
for
for
improvements
are
to
to
produce
more
efficiently
and
to
produce
more
value-added
product
which
we're
working
toward
our
Subaru
facility
produces
about
70
percent
value-added
product
now
and
we're
looking
to
be
able
to
increase
that
in
the
coming
months
and
years,
we've
had
this
similar
Workforce
issues
that
that
most
employers
have
had
in
the
state
of
Kentucky.
Unfortunately,
with
our
Hallsville
facility,
as
Chad
said,
we
laid
off
more
than
600
employees.
I
We
were
able
to
work
with
local
and
state
resources
to
help
find
them
by
assistance
during
this
process,
grad
both
grad
and
the
Hancock
County
Career
Center
have
been
excellent
partners
and
excellent
resources
for
us
and
we're
grateful
for
for
the
support
they
had
to
help
coordinate
benefits
to
help
coordinate
unemployment
insurance,
as
well
as
to
set
up
job
fairs,
to
help
be
able
to
find
our
employees.
I
The
key
to
the
Sea
Breeze
facility's
viability
is
to
is
to
make
sure
that
it
runs
stable.
You
know,
apart
from
the
power
issue,
it's
our
responsibility,
responsibility
to
be
able
to
to
provide
a
stable
operation
for
that
facility.
We've
had
similar
issues
with
employment,
as
other
employers
have
high
turnover
rates.
This
has
been
a
record
two
years
for
turnover
rates
for
for
the
nation
in
general
and
then
for
our
facility
there
to
give
some
perspective,
but
you
know
we're
running
at
about
22.6
percent
turnover
there
at
the
facility.
I
It's
a
hot
environment,
it's
a
very
difficult
environment
for
employees
to
work
in.
We
have
a
very
robust
job
market
in
the
state
of
Kentucky,
as
all
of
you
may
be
aware
of,
there
are
a
lot
of
open
jobs
available
for
those
who
want
to
work.
We
have
some
of
the
best
workers
in
in
the
state,
in
my
opinion,
and
so
they're
willing
to
work
and
so
they're
looking
for
opportunities
as
well.
I
The
uncertainty
due
to
Hallsville
that
has
also
created
concern
in
our
employees,
mind
which
is
driving
up
our
Workforce
turnover
issues
as
well
as,
as
I
said,
the
record
high
turnover
rate
that
we've
seen
here
in
in
the
the
us
over
the
course
of
the
last
couple
of
years,
due
to
coven
we're
having
to
become
creative
in
our
process,
is
to
be
able
to
help
retain
employees
and
and
we're
going
through
various
different
iterations
of
of
programs.
To
be
able
to
do
that.
I
One
of
the
things
that
we've
done
is
we've
looked
very
hard
at
the
Hispanic
Community
within
our
areas,
and
we've
gone
through
the
process
of
translating
our
our
work,
instructions,
hired
translators,
interpreters
and
those
types
of
things
to
be
able
to
bring
on
and
we're
in
the
very
early
stages
of
that
we
have
approximately
four
at
this
point
in
time.
I
Two
of
them
bilingual,
two
of
them
only
speak
Spanish
and
we
are
in
the
process
of
being
able
to
to
ramp
that
up
at
our
Sebree
facility
craft
workers
is
another
issue
that
that
isn't
that
we
have
at
our
facilities
that
has
expanded
across
the
U.S
as
well.
All
employers
are
having
difficulty
finding
craft
workers.
I
will
say
that
that
the
go
Fame
program
here
in
the
state
of
Kentucky
and
Dr
Warren,
specifically
at
Hancock
or
at
Henderson
County
Community
College,
has
been
an
excellent
partner
and
we're
we're
going
through
the
gophane
program.
I
We
have
employees
going
through
the
gophane
program
now,
and
we've
had
to
do
wage
evaluations
and
increases
in
order
to
be
able
to
offset
that.
But
but
the
the
need
for
an
educated,
Workforce
educated
in
the
crafts
is,
is
vitally
important
in
any
support
that
that
that
the
state
can
provide
there
to
help
direct
kids
to
those
types
of
programs
would
be
beneficial
for
us
and
then
another
issue
that
you
guys
have
discussed
over
the
course
of
the
last
session
is
just
child
care.
I
You
know,
accessibility
to
child
care
and
I
think
covet
has
brought
that
to
the
Forefront
of
a
lot
of
people's
minds,
and
so
we
have
at
our
Sebring
facility
our
hourly
Workforce,
less
than
one
percent
of
our
Workforce
is
female
and
we
get
very
few
female
applicants
as
well,
and
so
a
lot
of
that
has
to
do
with
the
accessibility
that
health
care
or
to
child
care
as
well.
As
you
know,
the
shift
work
that
we
that
we
have
that
makes
it
difficult.
I
I
We
don't
have
a
lot
of
options,
we're
rural
where
we're
at
and
so
subsidies
and
and
employer
matches
those
types
of
things
will
likely
work
best
for
us,
an
on-site
location
is
also
something
we
can
consider
as
well,
but
we
appreciate
your
consideration
and
and
your
time
in
listening
to
us
today,.
J
Probably
on
the
corporate
energy
director
for
Century
aluminum,
what
that
means
is,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I'm
responsible
for
our
electric
power
supply
at
our
our
U.S
facilities.
So
I'd
like
to
talk
today
about
the
power
markets
in
the
US,
and
particularly
in
Western
Kentucky,
where
our
two
plants
are
located
and
I'd
like
to
talk
about.
You
know
what
is
driving
the
current
increase
in
electricity
cost.
J
You
know,
as
you
know,
aluminum
is
an
energy
intensive,
a
business
even
at
normal
times.
Electricity
costs
are
our
major,
our
our
largest
production
cost
and
so
like
the
rest
of
your
industrial
base
in
Kentucky.
If
you
want
to
retain
it
and
grow
it,
you
need
low-cost,
reliable
electricity,
which,
frankly,
we
don't
have
today,
at
least
in
terms
of
price.
J
So,
first,
let's
talk
a
little
bit
about
where
our
plants
are
located
in
Western
Kentucky,
we
are
in
an
area
that
is
is
served
by
what's
called
miso.
Miso
is
a
a
new
entity
that
was
formed
by
member
utilities,
it
it's.
It
includes
that
portion
of
the
Kentucky.
It
goes
primarily
in
the
midwest,
but
it
goes
up
as
high
as
Minnesota,
and
it
goes
down
south
down
toward
toward
Mississippi
and
and
Louisiana.
J
J
Do
you
remember
utilities
give
up
control
of
of
of
of
their
generation
in
this
sense
that
miso
sets
the
price
for
Energy
every
hour
in
this
fashion
that
it
determines
what
the
loads
are
in
in
in
in
every
hour
of
the
coming
day,
and
then
all
the
generators,
all
the
generators
owned
by
utilities
are,
are
other
entities
bids
in
and
miso
clears
that
that
auction
and
the
price
for
the
power
that
everyone
pays
is
is
the
cost
of
the
producing
energy
at
the
at
the
marginal
unit.
J
J
Historically,
the
prices
that
are
smelters
for
energy
have
been
in
sort
of
the
mid
30
dollar
per
megawatt
hour
range,
okay
in
in
2020,
because
of
covid
demand
was
down,
and
so
our
average
annual
price
was
in
the
range
of
the
of
the
of
the
low
the
low
20s,
but
as
in
2021,
as
as
demand
came
back
up,
prices
came
up
in
part
because
natural
gas
supply
didn't
come
back
as
quickly
as
demand
and
our
average
price
was
was
about
41..
J
The
real
run
up
started
in
about
April
of
this
year,
sort
of
coincided
with
what's
happening
in
in
Europe
in
the
Ukraine
war
and
Power
prices
peaked
in
and
in
August
of
this
year
at
95
dollars
a
megawatt
hour,
I
mean
that's
that's
three
times
what
we
normally
would
expect
to
be
paying
for
power,
and
you
know,
as
as,
as
we've
indicated
it
certainly
at
hospital.
We
can't
economically
operate
at
that
power
price,
and
you
know
we're
not
alone.
J
At
least
the
forwards
indicate
that
as
we
move
into
the
springtime,
but
we're
scared
to
death
of
winter,
if
you
look
at
the
forecast
for
for
winter
prices,
certainly
in
in
January
we're
well
above
100
per
megawatt
hour
that
that
simply
is
is
not
sustainable
and
and
if
you
look
at
natural
gas
prices,
if
you
look
at
Henry
Hub
prices,
you
can
see
that
those
prices
are
what's
driving
up
primarily
driving
up
Power
prices,
but
you
know
I
was
talking
about
what's
causing
natural
gas
prices
to
go
up,
okay.
J
Well,
first
of
all,
when
kovid
came,
natural,
gas
production
fell
off
and
and
producers
went
pretty
Griggs
out
to
drill
new
new
wells
and,
and
an
interesting
aspect
of
this
is
that
as
gas
prices
have
have
come
back
rapidly,
producers
are
not
ramping
up
production
as
quickly
and
as
aggressively
as
you
you
might
expect,
and
part
of
that
is
financial
markets.
Financial
markets
are
tired
of
of
gas
producers,
spending
every
all
their
money
on
on
increased
production.
They
want
them
to
build
their
balance.
Sheets.
J
Investors
want
gas
producers
to
to
produce
dividends,
dividends.
So
gas
production
is
not
ramping
up.
As
quickly
as
as
demand
has
as
ramped
up
coming
out
of
of
the
the
covid
another
Big
Driver,
of
course,
is
liquefied
Natural
Gas.
J
The
United
States
has
become
is
now
the
largest
exporter
of
natural
gas
in
the
world,
and
it
is,
it
is
wrapped
up
very
rapidly
and
if
you
look
at
the
the
numbers,
the
amount
of
of
LNG
that's
exported
today,
the
the
LNG
export
facilities
are
totally
maxed
out
with
what
they
can
deliver
a
lot
of
it's
going
to
EU,
and
you
know
we
support
that.
J
But
a
lot
is
going
to
China
as
well,
and
if
you
look
at
what
the
department
of
energy
has
done
in
terms
of
Licensing
and
approving
further
exports
of
natural
gas,
it
doesn't
look
very
good
for
the
for
for
the
future,
as
LNG
exports
are
starting
to
take
up
a
substantial
portion
of
a
total
U.S
gas
natural
gas
production.
J
The
second
thing,
of
course,
is
concerns
about
natural
gas
pipeline
construction.
You
know
producers
can
produce
more
natural
gas,
but
that
they
can't
build
pipelines
to
to
move
it
to
markets.
It's
not
going
to
do
anyone
any
good,
as
you
probably
follow.
The
news
there's
been
a
lot
of
pushback
on
on
natural
gas
pipelines,
many
pipelines
have
been
built,
90
completed
and
the
prospective
owners
have
simply
walked
away
because
they
can't
get
it
completed
because
of
environmental
litigation.
J
So
what
else
is
going
on?
Well,
historically,
when
gas
prices
Got
High
I
mean
they
got
high,
you
know
decade
and
a
half
ago
what
happened?
Well,
utilities
switched
to
Coal,
because
coal
remains
remained,
then
a
relatively
cheap
source
of
of
power,
and
by
switching
to
increasing
coal
production
and
reducing
gas
production,
they
could
maintain
the
average
cost
of
power
at
a
reasonable
level.
Can't
do
that
anymore.
J
We're
not
seeing
that
why,
because
one
there's
been
a
very
aggressive
early
retirement
of
of
coal
plants,
there
simply
isn't
that
much
coal
capacity
generation
capacity
left
in
order
to
to
to
do
a
lot
of
fuel
switching.
Secondly,
we
saw
a
substantial
closure
of
coal
mines
even
before
the
the
covid
pandemic,
and
certainly
during
the
coal
pandemic.
So
if
you,
even
if
you
had
the
coal
capacity
and
some
utilities
do-
and
they
want
to
find
additional
spot
coal
to
buy,
can
they
buy
well,
maybe
they
can
maybe
they
can't.
J
But
if
you're
a
coal
mine
operator
that
closed
a
plant,
you
know,
are
you
going
to
reopen
a
coal
mine
for
for
a
short-term,
short-term
sale?
They
want
a
long-term
commitment.
J
They
need
a
long-term
commitment
to
get
financing
to
reopen
those
mines
and
if
they
do
get
that
financing
to
reopen
their
minds,
what
are
they
going
to
do
with
that
incremental
coal
they're
going
to
sell
it
into
the
the
EU
Market,
which
is
you
know
three
four
five
times
higher
in
terms
of
price
than
what
they
can,
the
the
domestic
coal
market,
so
the
ability
to
switch
to
coal
from
natural
gas
is
gas
prices
increase
in
order
to
moderate
the
overall
cost
of
power
that
was
historically
there?
Is
this
not
there
today?
J
Second
question:
well
what
about
Renewables?
Why
aren't
Renewables
holding
holding
these
prices
down?
Well,
you
just
can't
build
Renewables
very
fast
one.
J
If
you
look
at
most
in
miso
and
in
Morse
utilities,
there
are
literally
hundreds
of
renewable
projects
trying
to
interconnect
to
the
utilities
transmission
system,
but
the
backlog
is
such
that
getting
if
I
were
to
start
today
to
build
a
renewable
project,
I'm
three
or
four
years
out
in
terms
of
getting
that
that
a
resource
online
and
the
other
question
is
well,
can
I.
You
know
renewable
costs
are
going
up
just
like
everything
else.
J
There's
ongoing
disputes
about
importing
solar
panels
from
from
China
and
other
Asian
States,
so
you
know
Renewables,
certainly
in
in
the
near
term,
are
not
going
to
to
to
address
this
this
issue.
So
you
know.
That's!
That's!
That's
my
so
now
in
Kentucky
there
is
another
RTO
on
on
the
Eastern
side.
J
That's
PGM
they've
got
the
same
sort
of
issues
and
there
are
other
Utilities
in
Kentucky
that
are
aren't
part
of
a
of
an
RTO
they're,
just
a
traditional
freestanding
utility,
so
you
know
what's
happening
to
them.
Well,
if
a
utility
you
know
has,
as
they've
probably
done
prudently
hedge,
their
their
fuel
costs
forward
or
brought
their
fuel
costs
forward,
then
the
increases
that
they're
seeing
today
are
are
being
moderated
because
they
may
have
made
prudent
purchase
decisions
in
the
past.
J
But
at
some
point
those
Hedges
and
those
purchases
are
going
to
run
out
and
you're
going
to
start
seeing
the
same.
Significant
price
increases
flow
through
to
other
customers
to
Mom
and
Pop
to
to
ordinary
commercial
customers,
and
it's
going
to
be
a
shock
I
think
to
to
to
to
those
rate
payers
in
terms
of
the
size
of
their
power
costs
going
forward.
So
you
know
what
are
we
doing?
J
One
we're
hoping
frankly
for
a
a
warm
winter
that
would
help
materially
to
to
get
us
through
the
winter,
without
and
lessen
the
demand
on
natural
gas
costs,
which
will
tend
to
keep
keep
prices
down,
we're
working
with
certain
National
industrial
groups
to
try
and
address
the
LNG
issue
and
the
natural
gas
pipeline
issue
and
and
at
the
at
the
at
the
plant
level
we're
looking
at
you
know,
do
we
have
options
to
Simply
other
than
simply
buying
miso
energy
at
at
the
marginal
cost?
J
Are
there
sellers
out
there
to
which
we
can
enter
into
a
bilateral
Power
purchase
agreement
at
a
price
that
that
we
can
continue
to
operate
at
we're,
obviously
looking
ourselves
at
solar
projects,
even
though
they
would
be
out
in
the
future
several
years?
It's
something
we
want
to
do,
and
and
lastly,
we're
looking
at
what
can
we
do
operationally
or
that
can
we
make
our
operations
more
flexible
and
so
that
we
can
manage
our
power
costs
in
that
way.
J
But
my
point
here
is
this
is
a
very
trying
time
not
just
for
Century
but
but
for
all
of
the
industrial
base
in
Kentucky
and
elsewhere,
and
customers
like
us,
but
also
legislative,
whether
state
or
federal,
need
to
be
looking
at
a
way
to
to
bring
our
Natural
Gas
and
Electric
power
system
back
down
to
a
a
level,
a
normal
sort
of
price
level.
Otherwise,
there's
going
to
continue
to
be
demand,
destruction
and
loss
of
loss
of
jobs,
and
we
certainly
don't
want
that
and
I.
Don't
think
anyone
else
wants
that.
A
E
Chairman
I'll
be
as
brief
as
we
can
to
respect
the
agenda,
just
a
quick
statement
and
then
a
couple
of
questions.
Gentlemen.
First
of
all,
if
the
last
three
years
have
taught
us
anything,
it
is
the
Fool's
errand
of
our
Reliance
on
authoritarian
regimes
for
things
that
are
critical
to
this
nation.
Be
it
the
semiconductor
crisis
that
we're
currently
experience
with
our
Reliance
on
the
Chinese,
which
I
fear
will
bleed
into
Battery
Technology
and
with
the
amount
of
the
market
that
they
have.
F
E
All
of
that
being
said,
I
have
three
questions.
First
of
all,
I
remember
dealing
with
this
issue.
When
I
very
first
got
here,
Joe
Bowen
my
hero
was
spearheading
it
and
I.
Don't
remember
exactly
what
the
resolution
was
so
a.
Could
you
help
me
with
that
and
kind
of
then
elaborate
a
little
bit
more
on
what?
If
any
subsidies
you
guys
get
governmentally
I,
think
they're
pretty
minimal
if
any
and
then
finally
Michael
for
you,
what
would
the
impact
of
a
fully
functioning
nuclear
facility
mean
to
you
guys?
Thank
you.
Thanks.
H
Mr
chairman
I'll,
take
I'll,
take
the
first
two
and
then
have
Michael
address
the
nuclear
question.
10
years
ago,
in
2012
we
had
a
cinder
Bowen
had
a
a
bill
that
would
allow
us
allow
Century
to
take
the
two
smelters
onto
the
open
market.
H
So
right
now,
Kentucky
Law
requires
that
all
residential,
commercial
and
Industrial
your
customers
be
served
by
the
utility
in
the
area
and
that
the
the
bill
that
later
got
worked
out
outside
of
the
legislature
in
an
agreement
with
big
Rivers
century
and
the
Public
Service
Commission
allowed
us
because
of
our
unique
situation
that
we
were
in
to
buy
Power
on
the
open
market
in
in
miso.
So
we
are
the
only
customer
in
Kentucky
that
has
that
ability
to
do
that
through
the
negotiated
contract.
H
I
have
received
the
questions.
If
we
were
still
on
big
Rivers
would
would
we
be
in
the
situation
that
we're
in
today,
and
my
answer
is
simply-
we
wouldn't
even
be
having
that
conversation,
because
the
plants
would
have
closed
in
2013.
Had
we
not
been
able
to
buy
open
market
power
and
it
basically
allowed
the
two
plants
to
stay
open
and
one
plant
to
stay
open
today
with
that
agreement-
and
we
have
a
you
know
at
the
time
again,
I
was
not
with
Century.
H
I
was
actually
on
the
other
side
of
century
at
the
time,
but
we
have
a
great
working
relationship
with
big
rivers
to
this
day
and
it's
been
beneficial
for
the
economics
of
of
Western
Kentucky
to
the
question
on
government
subsidies,
we
receive
nine.
As
Kenneth
said,
we
are
commodity
trade
to
business.
The
only
thing
we
can
do
you
know
to
make
money
is
to
control
the
input
cost,
but
we
received
no
government
subsidies
whatsoever.
When
we
were
talking
about
idling
Hallsville.
H
Two
months
ago
we
were
having
conversations
with
the
Department
of
Defense
in
the
White
House
and
and
trying
to
explain.
You
know
the
importance
of
that
and
in
hopes
that
you
know
some
type
of
contract
or
something
could
be
arranged
that
we
could
keep
the
flow
of
DOD
metal
going,
but
it
just
didn't
come
to
fruition.
So
we
received
no
no
subsidy
whatsoever
and
with
that
I'll
turn
it
over
now
to
Michael
to
answer
your
nuclear
question.
J
Sure,
well,
nuclear
power
has
both
a
an
economic
aspect
and
a
political
aspect
to
it.
As,
as
you
know,
you
know,
look
at
France
France
went
forward
with
nuclear
power
decades
ago,
and
it's
been
very
successful
for
them,
and
so
they're
sitting
pretty
right
now
in
Europe,
as
as
Germany,
for
example,
is,
is
struggling
because
they
have
abandoned
their
nuclear
and
coal
facilities
and
aren't
getting
the
gas
from
Russia
anymore
in
the
in
the
states.
J
It
it's
been,
as
you
know,
a
difficult
Road
for
for
nuclear
power.
A
lot
of
most
nuclear
power
plants
that
were
in
existence
30
years
ago
have
been
have
been
retired.
Interestingly,
California
has
their
last
nuclear
power
plant
was
scheduled
to
be
retired,
but
given
circumstances
they've
now
now
extended
its
operating
life
for
some
short
period
of
time.
J
I
think
in
recognition
of
the
fact
that
the
move
toward
Renewables
is
not
not
succeeded,
so
in
terms
of
of
going
forward,
you
know
we
actually
have
a
plan
in
South
Carolina
and
the
utility
there
was
a
45
owner
of
a
proposed
nuclear
power
plant.
It's
not
been
a
success.
It's
been
a
disaster.
Frankly,
in
total
they
spent
the
utility
of
its
Partners
spent
about
nine
billion
dollars
on
on
that
plan,
it's
never
going
to
operate.
J
They've
recouped
some
portion
of
that
money,
but
it's
it's
been
a
significant
loss,
the
other
nuclear
power
plant
on
the
construction
of
days
by
Southern
Company,
it's
sort
of
the
same
untested
design,
they're
going
to
go
forward,
but
it's
going
to
cost
north
of
20
billion
billion
dollars
to
complete
that
plan.
It's
it's
so.
The
question
here
is,
you
know:
do
I
support
nuclear
power,
absolutely
I
think
we
we
have
to
have
it.
It
has
to
be
done
right,
though
I
mean
you
need
to
have
a
proven
technology.
J
You
need
to
reduce
the
amount
of
of
Regulation
that
delays.
The
the
construction
I
mean
a
lot
of
the
cost
is
associated
with
the
fact
that,
under
the
the
delays,
you
can't
get
the
thing
built
for
for
10
10
years.
C
Yes,
thank
y'all
for
the
presentation
today.
I
appreciate
y'all
coming
I
spoke
with
chairman
Weber
a
couple
months
ago,
when
you
guys
closed,
I
thought
it
was
ironic
for
600
people
in
the
state
of
Kentucky
to
basically
lose
their
job
and
not
really
hear
a
whole
lot
about
it.
I
mean
this
is
devastating
to
a
community
part
of
my
former
district.
For
those
of
you
that
don't
know
the
century.
C
Aluminum
Hallsville
plant
was
in
my
former
district
and
I'm
getting
calls
still
currently
of
people
that
still
can't
get
unemployment
claims
processed
and
just
the
trickle-down
effects
of
everything
that
happened,
and
so
I
appreciate
chairman
Weber
for
allowing
us
to
put
some
Spotlight
on
this.
So
we
can
understand
why
this
happened
and
what
we
do
to
prevent
it
if
there
is
any
preventable
measures,
thankfully
we're
at
a
point
in
time
to
where
there
were
jobs
out
there
when
this
happened,
so
some
people
were
able
to
to
McDonald
to
other
things.
C
These
were
good,
paying
jobs,
we're
talking
about
90,
000
Plus,
in
excess,
paying
jobs
for
people,
it's
hard
work
and
there
there
is
a
turnover
rate
there,
but
I
I.
Just
felt
it
important
that
we
make
sure
that
the
public
and
everybody
understands
what
happened
and
what's
going
on
in
this
in
this
area,
I
I
had
a
question.
C
One
is
when,
when
you
guys
put
a
statement
out
discussing
about
the
Ukraine
war,
how
would
you
weight
the
percentage
of
the
Ukraine
war,
Impact
versus
National
energy
policies
and
or
could
National
energy
policies
change?
That
would
offset
the
impact
of
the
Ukraine
war
because
it
seemed
like
to
be
a
lot
of
the
focus
of
the
public
statement
that
you
guys
put
out
whenever
you
were
talking
about
the
closing
of
the
facility
there,
the
idling
of
the
facility.
So
maybe
you
could
shine
some
light
on
that.
J
Well,
yeah
yeah,
if
you
look
at
the
Historical
chart
of
of
maestro
Energy
prices,
at
least
in
the
area,
were
served
by
the
real
uptick
occurred
in
in
April,
March
and
April
of
of
this
year,
and
so
I
I
think
the
fact
you
know
that
Russia
you
know
there
was
the
Ukraine
war,
the
the
threat
and
the
actuality
of
Russia
cutting
off
the
supply
of
natural
gas
to
Europe,
and
the
political
pressure
here
in
the
states
to
commit
to
provide
natural
gas
to
our
allies
in
Europe
certainly
had
an
impact
on
a
material
impact
on
on
on
natural
gas
prices,
starting
in
in
that
time
period.
J
You
know
what
what
we
can
do
about
it
frankly
and-
and
this
is
why
we're
interested
in
the
the
whole
LNG
issue
is
that
if
you
look
at
where
the
exports
go
to,
obviously
a
significant
amount
now
goes
to
Europe,
but
a
very
large
percentage
is
going
to
to
China,
and
you
know
I
think,
there's
a
legitimate
question
to
ask:
is
you
know
why
are
we
exporting
a
a
valuable
U.S
based
commodity
natural
gas?
J
Why
are
we
exporting
it
to
to
to
to
to
to
China
when
that
export
is
increasing
domestic
natural
gas
prices?
That
is,
is
forcing
companies
to
to
to
not
to
to
to
close
or
or
not
expand?
I
mean
the
result
of
that.
We're
exporting
jobs
because
we're
we're
allowing
the
export
of
our
of
our
natural
resource,
natural
gas.
J
So
and
that's
that's
under
the
control
of
the
Department
of
energy,
the
federal
government
so
we're
working
with
others
to
you
know,
let's,
let's
try
to
get
a
better
handle
under
what
we're
doing
here
in
terms
of
managing
the
export
of
our
of
our
natural
gas.
The
other
point
is:
is
there
was
there's
one
large
natural
gas
export
facility
that
I
don't
know
the
name
right
now,
but
it
was
forced
to
close.
J
It
had
a
an
issue
and
and
when
it
closed
you,
you
saw
an
immediate
downtick
in
in
natural
gas
prices
and
so
yeah
LNG
exports,
driven
by
what's
going
on
in
in
Ukraine,
both
the
the
amount
and
the
price
is
having
a
is
having
a
big
ad
pack.
So
you
know
if
the
Ukraine
war
should
end
tomorrow
and
and
supply
of
gas
to
to
Europe
should
be
restored.
J
G
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
good,
to
see
you
guys,
I
wish.
We
were
here
under
a
little
bit
better
circumstances
than
the
conversation
we're
having
today.
I
wanted
to
go
back
to
a
comment
you
made
in
your
an
opening
presentation,
Chad
with
respect
to
the
the
grade
of
aluminum
that
you
provide
for
National
defense
purposes.
Could
you
just
again
say
what
the
available
sources
are
now
because
of
the
idling
of
the
hospital
plant?
Yes,.
H
Hallsville
was
in
a
unique
situation
because
of
the
environmental
controls,
the
way
that
that
smelter
was
set
up
that
allowed
us
to
make
the
high
Purity
metal
I
mean
we
99.99
exponentially
nine
percent
aluminum,
which
was
used.
You
know
for
DOD
grade.
It
was,
and
I
said
this
earlier
it
is.
It
was
the
last
primary
aluminum
smelter
in
a
NATO
country,
NATO
member
country,
that
produced
that
grade
of
aluminum.
H
The
only
other
sources
for
that
great
aluminum
currently
are
the
Middle
East
because
they
make
aluminum
because
of
the
abundance
of
natural
gas
on
site
and
then
Russia,
and
then
you
know
potentially
China.
You
know,
depending
on
what
you
believe
coming
out
of
China
if
it's
Purity
or
not.
So
that's
that's
the
two
options.
You
know
the
two
Russia
and
the
Middle
East
option
that
our
customers,
looking
at
in
Ravenswood,
West,
Virginia
and
people,
ask
why
don't
you
just
start
making
it
at
Sebree?
H
Well,
it
would
be
probably
close
to
a
billion
dollar
investment
in
the
scrubber
system
that
would
be
required
to
put
into
Sebree
to
retrofit.
That
facility,
which
you
know,
is
completely
cost
prohibitive.
G
We
have
now
a
situation
where
what
we
once
produced
in
Kentucky
for
our
National
Defense
effort
is
no
longer
possible
because
of
economic
factors
driven
by
energy
policies
that
have
driven
the
prices
up
to
where
you
can't
even
stay
in
business
and
I
think
that's
totally
unacceptable
and
we
have
got
to
get
reign
in
these
desires
to
go
to
Energy
Technologies
that
simply
are
not
economically
feasible.
At
this
time,
we've
got
to
get
you
back
open.
We've
got
to
be
able
to
provide
for
our
National,
Defense
and
I.
G
How
quickly
or
even
can
you
open
back
up
and
start
providing
that
high
grade
aluminum
again,
would
you
be
able
to
do
that?
Yeah.
H
I'll
I'll
start
and
Kenneth.
Maybe
you
can
chime
in
you
know
if
light
switch
is
a
bad
analogy,
but
if
we
could
flip
the
light
switch
and
everything
was
was
back
to
more
normal
times
and
look
we
don't
expect
Energy
prices
to
ever
be
back
in
the
mid
30s
I
mean
we're
not
we're
not.
You
know
naive
on
that
I
mean
if
we
had
a
more
stable
energy
Market
long
term,
and
we
saw
the
Futures
were
looking
at
a
point
that
we
could.
We
could
afford
to
reopen
that
plant.
H
That
plant
was
brought
down
in
a
proper
manner.
It
wasn't
just
you
know,
shut
down
and
walked
away
and
all
the
metal
froze
in
the
pots.
It
would
still
take
a
significant
investment
on
centuries
part,
but
I
would
say,
probably
a
four
to
six
month
period
to
bring
that
plant
back
online,
but
but
Kenneth
will
probably
address
you
know
the
other
thing
is
we
laid
off
620
a
lot
of
those
folks
have
gone
and
found
other
jobs,
so
we'd
have
a
labor
shortage
that
we
would
have
to.
I
And
we
did
work
with
with
the
Union
on
that
process
to
extend
those
recall
rights
to
attempt
to
get
those
folks
back.
So
we
we
have
a
longer
period
of
time
to
do
that.
The
question
is:
will
they
come
back
given
the
the
instability,
but
but
it
would
be
our
hope
that
they
would,
and
even
now,
our
employees
that
are
still
on
site.
We
have
roughly
33
employees
still
on
site
working
they're,
doing
prep
work,
which
serves
two
purposes
to
generate
some
cash
through
the
the
pulling
out
of
the
of
the
metal.
H
That
you
know
the
one
reminder
that
I
I
remind
folks
all
the
time
at
all
levels.
Is
we
just
dumped
160
million
dollars
into
that
plant
over
the
last
four
years?
And
you
know
the
last
thing
we
wanted
to
do
was
idle
the
plant
after
putting
that
type
of
investment
and
and
bringing
that
pot
line
back
up.
So
you
know
again,
it
was
brought
down
in
a
proper
manner
that
hopefully,
one
day,
if
things
stabilize
we
can,
we
can
get
it
back
up.
G
Thank
you
for
your
comments
and
I
would
just
say,
hang
in
there
get
ready,
I'm
hoping
that
help
is
on
the
way
in
the
very
near
future,
and
we
can
get
you
guys,
operating
and
and
again
providing
for
our
National
Defense.
The
way
that
you
have
for
yours.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
you're,.
A
Welcome
we
have
three
more
individuals
with
questions
on
this
topic
and
we're
gonna
go
next
with
representative
Bray.
I
Thank
you
all
and
I
I
guess.
This
question
is
probably
for
Michael
with.
G
The
passage
of
the
so-called
inflation
reduction
act.
There
was
a
lot
of
taxes,
new
taxes,
fees,
stuff
like
that
put
on
natural
gas,
for
instance,
6.5
billion
in
fines
and
taxes.
You
know
in
the
future,
it
doubled
the
excise
tax
on
coal
production.
How
does
that
kind
of
factor
in
on
ural's,
long-term
forecasting,
for
Energy
prices
and
for
the
sustainability.
J
J
Inflation
reduction,
Act
was
was,
was
a
mixed.
A
mixed
bag
obviously
didn't
do
much
for
inflation,
but
in
terms
of
of
energy,
you
know
the
the
focus,
at
least
in
the
media
has
been
on
what
it
what
it's
done
for
potentially
for
Renewables,
and
you
know
we
followed
up
on
that
to
see.
Well,
what
does
that
mean
in
real
life?
And
you
know
we
had
bids
for
renewable
projects
that
were
still
good.
J
You
know
timely
and
asked
them
to
to
reprice
it
based
upon
you
know
the
impact
of
the
inflation
reduction
act
on
on
renewable
tax
credits.
It's
about
a
15
reduction,
if
you
believe
the
numbers,
so
it
will
help
there,
but
on
on
the
other
side
of
the
coin,
in
terms
of
increased
taxes
and
and
restrictions
on
on
fossil
fuels,
you
know
it
cut
backs
the
the
other
way.
J
Okay,
so
you
know
at
the
end
of
the
day,
in
terms
of
of
natural
gas,
the
only
thing
that's
going
to
solve
this
problem.
Frankly,
is
you
know
the
war
in
Ukraine
needs
to
go
away
and
Russia
needs
to
begin,
providing
some
some
gas
to
to
Europe
to
to
to
to
bring
the
European
demand
back
down
into
line.
J
Doe
needs
to
take
a
more
reasonable
approach
to
LNG
facility
permitting
and
Export
approvals,
but
but
the
bottom
line
is
domestic
U.S
gas
production
needs
to
needs
to
ramp,
up
and
and
and
and
domestic
U.S
natural
gas
pipelines
need
to
be
built
and
that
that's
the
bigger
question,
that's
what
needs
to
to
to
to
happen
in
order
to
bring
demand
and
Supply
for
domestic
U.S
gas
back
into
something
that
looks
like
balance
and
and
and
that'll
that'll
bring
prices
down
to
more
work
to
more
normal
levels.
J
You
know
the
the
the
taxes
and
and
other
things
you
know,
they're
they're,
yeah
they're
not
helpful,
but
they're
not
gonna,
push
it
one
way
or
the
other.
It
seems
to
me.
F
Thank
you
Mr
chair,
and
thank
you
all
for
your
testimony.
Today.
It's
been
very
enlightening.
My
brief
comment
is
more
for
my
colleagues
here
in
the
general
assembly,
many
of
us,
but
unfortunately
not
all,
have
been
forecasting
this
for
many
many
a
time
too
many
folks
have
been
demonizing
coal
and
our
fossil
fuels,
and
we've
been
saying
for
many
years.
F
This
is
exactly
what
was
going
to
happen,
so
it
is
a
fairy
tale
to
think
that
we
can
fuel
a
first
world
country
on
solar
and
wind
and
I'm,
hoping
that
my
more
recent
colleagues
here
in
the
general
assembly
are
learning
from
today's
testimony.
If
anyone
thinks
you
can
fuel
a
first
world
country
on
solar
and
wind
I,
highly
recommend,
you
come
back
and
review
this
portion
of
today's
testimony.
Thank
you.
K
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I
apologize
for
my
tardiness,
but
I
have
been
listening
and
lay
down
from
Eastern
Kentucky.
You
know,
I
I've
really
enjoyed
this
presentation.
I
think
it's
brought
up
a
lot
of
excellent
points
about
some
of
the
national
concern
security
concerns
that
many
of
us
have
about
the
deindustrialization
of
the
United
States
of
America,
and
you
know
I
I.
K
Don't
necessarily
look
at
this
as
a
partisan
thing
in
the
sense
that
I
think
that
Republican
party
has
as
much
guilt
at
party
in
voting
for
a
lot
of
trade
deals
and
other
things
that
put
our
our
native
Industries
at
a
disadvantage
to
some
degree
started
the
process
which
has
been
accelerated
by
the
Democrat
party's
attack
on
our
energy
system
in
the
United
States
I
guessed.
What
to
what
extent
have
you
seen
to
follow
up
on
that
statement?
To
what
extent
have
you
seen?
Energy
prices
increase
with
the
government's
attack
on
coal?
J
You
know
I
I,
don't
think
you
could.
You
know
quantify
it
in
that
detail
and
you
know
do
it
sort
of
you
know
one
for
one,
I
I.
Think
without
question,
though,
as
I
said
before
that,
historically
you
know,
the
response
to
high
natural
gas
prices
by
utility
would
be
to
fuel
switch
over
to
coal
and
and
coal
production
and
coal
prices
would
would
moderate
any
increase
in
in
the
overall
price
price
of
electricity.
J
So
the
fact
that
we've
seen
destruction
early
retirement
of
of
our
of
our
coal
generation,
Fleet
and
and
closures
of
of
of
coal
mines-
yeah
that
that
that's
that's
a
driver.
If
we
had
the
traditional
coal
generation
base
and
coal
mine
production
base,
we
had
you
know.
20
years
ago
we
wouldn't
be
seeing
these
prices
utilities
would
be,
would
be
burning,
more
more
coal
and
and
and
not
buying
expensive
gas,
and
that
would
bring
down
the
cost
of
gas.
So
you
know
you're
right.
Yes,.
K
I
know
when
I
first
got
up
here:
2019
I
actually
have
I
think
one
of
the
very
last
coal
plans
that
was
constructed
in
the
United
States
of
America
is
right
across
the
border
and
the
Commonwealth
of
Virginia
from
from
Pike
County.
H
Well,
I
think
it's
twofold:
you
know
there
are
restrictions
on
the
permitting
side,
but
the
other
part
of
it.
If
you
talk
the
utilities
or
even
the
coal
industry
is
the
lack
of
available
financing
for
building
a
new
coal-fired
plant
I
mean
basically
a
utility
can't
find
a
bank
or
a
lending
institution
to
lend
them
the
money
to
to
build
a
new
facility.
H
You
know
I've
talked
to
the
folks
in
the
mining
industry
right
now.
Back
to
you
know,
the
points
have
been
raised.
Why
don't?
We
just
start
mining
more
coal?
H
The
problem
is,
as
Michael
pointed
out,
we
shut
down
a
lot
of
coal
mines
in
2020,
a
lot
of
the
equipment,
The
Continuous
Miners
and
the
equipment
they
need
to
mine,
more
coal
and
unfortunately,
with
the
market,
probably
export
more
coal
to
to
Eastern
Europe,
you
know
is
tied
up
and
and
delays
and
and-
and
you
know,
materials
that
they
can't
get,
but
in
addition
to
that,
the
lending
institutions
aren't
lending
money
to
buy
new
equipment
to
a
coal
mine
right
now.
So
it's
kind
of
two-pronged
for
the
utilities
in
the
coal
companies.
H
H
I'm
not
pointing
out
anybody,
it's
just
talk
to
the
utilities
or
the
coal
companies
in
the
state
had
a
conversation
with
utility
last
night.
It's
just
the
reality
that
they're
facing
all
right.
Thank
you.
You.
J
Know
I
have
a
comment:
I
mean
every
utilities
are
filed
to
prepare
what
they
call
an
integrated
resource
plan.
It's
it's.
It
says
over
the
next
20
years,
how
do
I
plan
to
serve
my
my
expected
load?
What
generation
am
I
going
to
retire?
What
new
generation
are
going
to
be
built
I'd
be
shocked
if
there's
any
utility
in
the
United
States?
J
That
includes
in
their
integrated
resource
plan,
a
decision
to
build
a
new
coal
plant,
and-
and
you
know
it
it's
a
it's
a
political
decision
and,
and
you
know,
every
every
political
message
is
being
sent
to
to
to
utilities.
J
B
Thank
you,
chairman
Weber,
you
know
chairman
Weber,
again,
I
apologize
for
being
late,
like
like
Senator
wheeler,
but
I
just
have
a
lot
of
Demands
on
my
time
in
Lexington
elsewhere,
so
so
I
do
apologize,
but
Mr
early.
B
My
question
is
for
you,
we've
heard
this
morning
and
I
I
really
hope
to
just
come
here
and
just
be
quiet
and
not
say
anything
just
kind
of
just
settle
in,
but
we've
heard
a
lot,
not
so
subtle
attacks
on
a
partisan
basis,
and
so
that
that
commands
that
I
ask
you
this
question:
okay
and
I'm
I'm
going
to
try
to
stay
as
as
non-political
as
I,
possibly
can
Senator
Mansion
has
a
bill
now
that
would
encourage
energy
permitting
and
really
and
an
approach
that
we
need
all
energy
resources,
which
I
think
is
the
wisest
approach
possible
that
America
needs
to
move
toward
energy.
B
Independence
we've
been
talking
about
going
back
to
the
Jimmy
Carter
age,
so
I'm
going
to
look
forward.
I'm
not
going
to
engage
in
in
backward
criticism
and
I
want
to
ask
you
this
and
Chad
I
would
appreciate
if
you
weigh
in
on
this
as
well.
What's
your
what's
your
assessment
of
sender
Mansions
bill
which
has
strong
bipartisan
support
in
terms
of
how
we
move
forward
in
this
country
from
energy
basis,.
J
Yeah,
you
might
know
this:
we
used
to
have
a
plant
in
West
Virginia.
That
is
now
is
now
closed
for
the
same
reasons:
high
power
costs
some
decade
ago,
and
so
we
we
have
some
relationship
with
with
Senator,
manchin
and
and
the
group
I
talked
about
before
the
the
national
industrial
Energy
Group
has
met
with
Senator
match
and
his
staff
to
talk
about
his
bill.
I
I
think
our
sense
of
the
bill
is
clearly
for
Senator
manchin.
J
It's
getting
that
that
one
pipeline
built
that
goes
from
West
Virginia
to
Virginia,
that's
important
to
him
and
to
his
State,
but
the
bill
doesn't
go
nearly
far
enough
to
solve
our
to
solve
our
problems.
I
think
there
needs
to
be
one
a
single
One-Stop
Place
for
for
for
permitting
of
of
natural
gas
pipelines
when
you
spit
it
split
it
up.
J
J
It's
it's
a
point
of
religion
almost
and
the
standard
for
approval
by
the
agencies
is
so
loose
that
that,
basically
any
any
smart
lawyer
can
find
a
basis
for
appeal
of
an
order
agency
order,
approving
the
construction
of
Pipeline
and
and
and
delay
it
and-
and
you
know,
continue
that
process
and
that's
what
we've
seen
that
pipelines
have
have
gotten
permits.
J
They've
been
challenged,
litigated
a
lot
of
money
spent
in
construction,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
the
owners
just
throw
up
their
hands
and
say
this
is
never
going
to
happen.
It's
never
going
to
get
built,
so
we
need.
We
need
much
deeper,
much
broader,
permitting
reform
than
the
Mansion
Bill
provides
in
order
for
us
to
to.
You
know,
build
a
a
natural
gas
pipeline
infrastructure
that
will
support
not
only
our
current
industry
base,
but
the
industry
base
we'd
like
to
develop.
H
And
Senator
Thomas
I'll
I'll
comment
not
not
necessarily
on
the
I'm.
Sorry
thank
you
on
the
on
the
Mansion
the
bill,
but
you
know:
we've
had
a
couple
of
measures:
past
Congress
and
signed
recently
the
inflation
reduction
act.
You
know
and
other
measures
the
infrastructure,
Bill
and
we're
monitoring
those
very
closely.
For
you
know
research
and
development
dollars,
because
you
know
one
thing:
I
think
we've
tried
to
be
consistent
today
is
we're
for
an
all
above
approach,
including
Renewables
I
mean
we've
looked
into
that
as
Michael
said
earlier.
H
You
know
our
customers,
our
end,
customers
are
demanding,
you
know
metal
be
produced
by
Green
energy,
but
we
just
want
to
make
sure
and
we're
working
with
with
the
folks
in
DC
and
and
working.
You
know
with
the
governor's
office
to
make
sure
that
you
know
the
monies
that
are
set
aside
with
that
within
doe,
that's
kind
of
all
out
for
proposal
right
now.
H
We
want
to
make
sure
that
you
know
it
actually
goes
and
hits
the
ground
and
really
impacts
our
industrial
base,
not
just
Century
aluminum,
but
but
all
industrial
customers
and
and
residential
customers.
For
that
research
and
development.
You
know
looking
into
the
future,
as
you
mentioned,.
A
We
will
have
if
you're
open,
we
I
would
like
to
have
you
back
in
the
coming
months.
Maybe
after
we
start
the
session,
there's.
Obviously
a
lot
of
interest
in
this
topic
and
I
think
some
more
exploration
would
be
warranted,
appreciate.
A
Would
like
to
entertain
a
motion
for
the
adoption
of
the
July
minutes.
Can
I
have
that
motion?
Second,
all
those
in
favor,
say
aye,
adopted
I
would
like
a
motion
for
the
adoption
of
the
August
minutes
motion.
Second,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
minutes
are
adopted.
Thank
you.
We're
now
going
to
move
on
to
our
final
item
on
the
agenda:
the
employee
misclassification.
We
have
Richard
Vincent
and
Kyle
Johnson
coming
forward,
gentlemen.
A
We
are
going
to
start
to
lose
additional
members
due
to
an
announcement
over
in
the
Capitol
I'm,
going
to
ask
you
to
jump
right
into
your
presentation
and
and
and
we'll
see,
we'll
see
where
we
go
from
there.
Thank
you.
G
You
thank
you.
There
we
go.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
members
of
the
committee
appreciate
the
opportunity
invitation
to
appear
before
you.
My
name
is
Richard
Vincent
I'm,
the
Executive
Vice
President
of
associated
general
contractors
of
Kentucky
AGC
of
Kentucky
with
me,
I
have
Kyle
Johnson
with
frost
Brown
Todd.
G
The
purpose
of
our
appearance
here
today
is
to
highlight
concerns
with
803
Kar
1006,
the
employer,
employee
relationship
regulation
that
was
recently
found
deficient
during
the
May
administrative
regulation
review
subcommittee
meeting.
This
regulation
replaced
803,
Kar
1005.
G
In
turn,
our
members
are
delivering
projects
that
promote,
provide
and
sustain
Economic
Development,
Across
Kentucky
I,
realize
today
and
throughout
the
hearing
process
you
have
heard
about
Workforce
Development
and
how
that
is,
is
key
to
to
furthering
every
industry
in
Kentucky.
I
can
tell
you
from
our
perspective.
What
we
are
seeing
right
now
is
is
a
huge
threat
to
our
industry
and
our
abilities
to
perform.
G
According
to
a
recent
Workforce
survey,
92
percent
of
our
members,
92
percent
of
our
members,
are
currently
hiring.
91
percent
of
those
members
are
significantly
struggling
to
fill
those
open
positions.
I
say
that
to
illustrate
what
is
keeping
our
members
up
at
night
number
one
and
also
to
emphasize
Our
concern
when
confronted
with
abrupt
regulatory
changes
that
introduce
more
uncertainty
into
the
workforce
equation
with
this
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Kyle
and
ask
him
too,
provide
a
little
bit
more
specificity.
Thank.
D
You
Richard
and
thank
you,
members
of
the
committee
Mr
chairman,
to
give
context
to.
A
D
To
give
context
to
why
this
issue
is
so
important
to
the
associated
general
contractors
of
Kentucky
I
wanted
to
just
begin
briefly
with
a
little
bit
of
historical
context
of
the
wage
statutes
and
the
regulations
implementing
them.
The
general
assembly
passed
chapter
391,
also
known
as
the
Kentucky
wages
and
hours
act
on
April,
2nd
1974,
and
at
that
time
the
general
assembly
defined
the
term
employee
as
any
person
employed
by
or
suffered
or
permitted
to
work
for
an
employer
by
December
1974,
the
then
Kentucky
Department
of
Labor.
D
Now
the
education
and
labor
cabinet
adopted
803
kar-1
colon
005
for
two
primary
purposes:
first,
to
discuss
what
constitutes
an
employee
employer
relation
second
to
guide
the
department
in
carrying
out
its
responsibilities
under
the
law.
Section
4
of
the
administrative
regulation
identified
the
tests
that
the
Department
of
Labor
would
use
to
evaluate
the
employee
relation.
D
The
test
outlined
many
examples
of
the
types
of
relationships
that
would
and
would
not
constitute
an
employment
relationship
enlisted
factors.
The
agency
would
use
to
assess
that
issue
in
prioritizing
certain
factors
over
others
for
the
intervening
48
years
since
that
wages
and
Hours
Act
was
passed
in
1974..
The
test
used
by
the
administrative
agency
remained
unchanged
and
the
act
of
the
general
assembly
continues
to
Define
employee
the
same
way
as
any
person
employed
by
or
suffered
or
permitted
to
work
for
an
employer.
D
Even
though
there
has
been
no
material
change
to
this
definition
for
the
past
48
years.
The
labor
cabinet
has
nevertheless
adopted
an
administrative
regulation
that
upends
this
48-year
status
quo.
We
believe
it
is
for
the
general
assembly,
not
the
labor
cabinet,
to
change
the
definition
of
employee
and
if
the
general
assembly
had
any
issue
with
the
test
outlined
in
the
803
Kar
one
colon
005,
one
would
presume
that
the
general
assembly
would
have
taken
action
to
overturn
that
regulation.
D
In
the
past
48
years,
the
general
assembly
has
a
strong
interest
in
preserving
the
separation
of
powers,
meaning
the
principle
that
says
it
is
for
the
general
assembly
and
not
an
administrative
agency
to
adopt
or
amend
laws
Beyond.
These
inherent
principles
and
interests
that
belong
to
the
general
assembly,
the
businesses
that
are
subject
to
these
administrative
regulations
have
a
strong
interest
in
ensuring
that
the
law
is
applied
clearly
uniformly
and
consistent
with
the
intent
of
the
general
assembly.
D
Compliance
with
the
law
would
become
an
administrative
nightmare
if
the
status
quo
could
be
continuously
Changed
by
unelected
officials.
That
is
even
more
true
when
a
regulation
has
been
on
the
books
for
48
years
without
material
change.
The
regulated
Community
has
clearly
grown
accustomed
and
developed
an
understanding
of
how
the
agency
enforces
the
law
when
an
entire
industry,
such
as
the
construction
industry,
has
come
to
rely
upon
these
long-standing
regulations
and
act
to
form
relationships
with
contractors
and
subcontractors.
D
Any
change
to
the
manner
in
which
the
agency
enforces
the
ACT
would
be
devastating
stability
in
the
law
matters
to
them.
The
associated
general
contractors
of
Kentucky
has
a
strong
interest,
ensuring
that
these
regulations
do
not
become
final.
The
organization's
members
are
made
up
of
contractors
of
all
sizes
that
regularly
work
with
and
rely
upon
the
independent
relationships
it
has
with
a
variety
of
subcontractors.
D
General
Contractors
need
to
be
able
to
contract
with
Specialists
without
risk
that
those
relationships
will
be
classified
by
the
labor
cabinet
as
an
employment
relationship.
It
would
upend
the
industry
if
the
labor
cabinet
could
simply
declare
that
an
employment
relationship
is
created
when
a
contractor
subcontracts
with
an
electrician,
to
perform
electrical
work
on
a
residential
construction
project
or
when
a
contractor
subcontracts
with
a
plumber
to
install
Plumbing
on
a
commercial
construction
project.
D
The
strange
to
the
regulation
by
the
labor
cabinet
will
would
be
felt
even
more
significantly
by
the
construction
contractors
and
subcontractors
that
have
limited
resources
are
unaware
of
the
attempts
to
change
the
administrative
regulation
or
how
the
change
would
impact
them.
Moving
forward,
make
no
mistake.
The
administrative
regulation
adopted
by
the
labor
cabinet
upends
the
status
quo
for
the
past
48
years.
D
This
test
evaluates
whether
the
possible
employer
controls
or
has
the
right
to
control
the
work
to
be
done
by
the
possible
employee
to
the
extent
of
prescribing
how
the
work
shall
be
performed
under
the
new
regulation.
However,
the
labor
cabinet
would
abolish
this
principal
test
in
its
place.
The
labor
cabinet
would
adopt
a
factor
that
asks
about
the
nature
and
degree
of
control
by
the
principal
whatever
that
means,
but
relegate
that
factor
as
a
final
factor
out
of
a
list
of
six
other
factors.
D
To
add
insult
to
injury,
the
new
regulation
adopts
new
factors
and
places
those
factors
above
this
one.
One
factor
that
the
labor
cabinet
has
added
to
this
regulation
is
one
that
asks
about
the
degree
of
Independent
Business
organization
and
operation
of
the
independent
contractor.
As
we
understand
this
Factor,
it
is
designed
to
push
contractors
to
subcontract
with
companies
that
are
organized
as
separate
business
entities
rather
than
as
a
sole
proprietor.
D
That
has
decided
not
to
formally
incorporate
his
or
her
business.
This
regulation
would
undermine
the
relationships
that
the
contractors
have
with
these
entities
and
would
also,
of
course,
have
would
likely
have
a
detriment,
detrimental
impact
on
the
subcontractors
themselves
and
the
sole
Proprietors
themselves.
Businesses
with
limited
resources
would
be
struck
particularly
hard
by
this
regulation.
Under
the
regulation,
as
it
currently
exists,
businesses
could
turn
and
there
and
find
many
examples
of
the
types
of
relationships
that
are
and
are
not
considered
independent.
D
In
addition,
examples
like
those
in
the
regulation
provide
guidance
to
the
agency
to
ensure
that
the
agency
enforces
the
law
in
a
uniform
Manner
and
does
not
leave
the
issue
to
the
whim
of
an
unelected
official.
These
examples
are
no
longer
exist
in
the
new
regulation
potentially
creating
this
result.
D
The
purpose
of
the
regulatory
change
is
best
shown
in
the
agency's
repeal
of
the
following
language
in
803
Kar,
one
colon
005,
the
Supreme
Court
has
held
that
the
words
to
suffer
a
permit
to
work
to
Define
employee
do
not
make
all
persons
employees
rather
than
standing
by
the
statement
of
the
U.S
Supreme
Court.
Through
this
regulation,
the
labor
cabinet
seeks
to
limit
the
types
of
relationships
that
will
be
considered,
independent
and
expand
the
discretion.
The
agency
has
to
make
this
determination.
D
It
has
attempted
to
do
so
without
any
action
by
this
General
Assembly
over
the
past
48
years
to
prompt
this
change
because
he's
attempted
regulatory
changes
to
the
law.
Contrary
to
the
separation
of
powers,
the
associated
general
contractors
of
Kentucky
requests
that
the
general
assembly
take
all
action
necessary
to
ensure
that
they
do
not
become
final.
A
D
So
that,
in
terms
of
who's
responsible
for
doing
it,
it
depends
on
the
specific
circumstances.
So
the
labor
cabinet
certainly
has
the
power
under
the
statute
to
enforce
the
law,
so
they
could
come
in
and
do
an
investigation,
and
it
was
part
of
their
investigation,
make
the
determination
of
who
is
and
who
is
not
an
employee
or
independent
contractor.
Of
course,
their
employees
also
have
the
ability
to
go
to
the
courts
and
ask
the
courts
to
apply
the
law
as
well.
A
And
then
I
have
one
additional
question
and
I
think
you
kind
of
touched
on
this.
But
I
would
like
to
to
hear
your
response
again
specifically
to
the
question,
a
measure.
That's
as
far
reaching
as
what
we've
seen
implemented
through
this
administrative
reg
and
your
opinion
really
should
have
gone
through
the
legislative
process
and
should
have
been
a
bill
form
passed
by
this
general
assembly
and
gone
through
the
normal
course
of
action
that
that
any
bill
would
normally
go
through
correct.
D
Exactly
but
the
this,
the
statute
adopted
in
1974
by
the
general
assembly
and
the
regulations
promptly
adopted
thereafter
implementing
that
regulation
having
been
in
place
for
48
years.
This
new
regulation
implements
a
change
to
the
status
quo,
and
changes
can
only
be
made
by
the
by
the
general
assembly.
F
Thank
you
Mr
chair
and
thank
you
all
for
your
presentation,
chair,
Weber,
touched
on
my
question.
Mine
is
I,
guess
more
of
a
question
of
timing,
so
it
might
be
a
question
for
you
and
our
good
chair
and
staff,
possibly
so
I've
heard
1974
reference
several
times
and
I
understand
that
when
was
this
regulation
submitted
put
into
place?
Has
it
been
submitted
to
our
administrative
reg
oversight
committee
like
where
are
we
in
this
process
chair
I'm
a
little
bit
confused?
Thank
you.
G
Yes,
the
006
was
submitted
beginning
of
the
year
I,
don't
remember
the
specific
date
and
has
been
considered
by
the
administrative
Rec
Review
Committee,
which
found
it
deficient
at
their
may
I
believe
it
was
the
May
10th
meeting,
so
it
was
found
efficient.
At
that
point,
sorry,
representative.
C
Just
a
quick
call
man
thank
you
for
your
presentation
and
just
encourage
our
members
with
what
has
been
brought
to
us
today.
We
we've
got
to
be
looking
the
opposite
direction
that
this
regulation
is
going.
We
have
small
and
when
I
say
small
businesses,
small
contractors
some
which
serve
right
here
in
the
general
assembly
and
I,
mean
you.
You
hire
a
person
for
a
day
to
clean
a
job
site
that
you
never
see
again
and
you
looking
at
payroll
and
and
processing
and
there's
so
much
already
that
is
regulated
with
this.
C
A
All
right,
we
have
no
additional
questions
at
this
point.
I
do
want
to
make
a
comment.
I'll
I'll
address
some
of
I
think
some
of
the
concerns
that
representative
King
had
I
asked
Mr
Vincent
Mr
Johnson
to
come
to
this
committee
and
present
on
on
this
administrative
regulation,
as
they
have
both
indicated
at
the
May
meeting.
That
regulation
was
found
deficient.
A
Those
individuals
that
were
in
opposition
to
this
regulation
indicated
at
that
time
that
they
had
had
hoped
to
work
with
the
labor
cabinet
or
education
and
labor
cabinet,
now
to
resolve
some
of
those
differences.
The
labor
cabinet
was
not
interested
in
doing
that,
despite
the
fact
that
a
bipartisan
number
of
members
of
that
administrative
regulation
review
subcommittee
asked
the
labor
cabinet
to
come
back
and
work
with
those
that
had
concerns
about
the
bill
and
try
to
result
or
the
reg
and
try
to
resolve
those
before
they
were
implemented.
A
This
issue
has
come
before
the
general
assembly
in
the
past.
Chairman
Pratt
is
here
the
small
business
and
information
technology
committee
that
he
chairs
actually
voted
down
this
bill
in
a
previous
legislative
session.
This
the
general
assembly
has
chosen
over
the
course
of
at
least
a
couple
of
other
sessions
not
to
take
this
measure
up.
A
Some
folks
have
suggested
that,
because
the
general
assembly
failed
to
act,
that
it
was
necessary
to
go
this
route
of
the
administrative
regulation
process
and
I
would
maintain
and
stay
here
today
that
the
fact
that
the
general
assembly
did
not
take
up
the
measure
indicates
the
will
of
the
general
assembly.
We
did
not
see
the
legislation
as
something
that
needed
to
be
taken
up
and
again
voted
on
in
committee.
I
think
what
we
are
witnessing
here
is
an
example
of
where
the
executive
branch
has
chosen
to
overstep
their
boundaries.
A
The
legislature
has
spoken
in
the
past.
It's
spoken
very
clearly
by
our
decision
not
to
take
up
this
bill
and
to
previously
vote
it
down.
The
gentlemen
here
have
expressed
their
concern
and
hope
that
the
general
assembly
coming
back
in
2023
will
address
this
measure,
and
it
is
my
hope
that
this
general
assembly
in
2023
legislative
session
will
end
this
administrative
reg
and
it
will
be
very
short-lived.
A
That
said,
gentlemen
I
appreciate
you
coming
here
today.
I
was
hoping
to
give
you
an
opportunity
to
present
your
views
in
your
opinion
on
this
bill,
since
you
were
denied
the
opportunity
to
work
with
the
education
and
labor
cabinet
to
accomplish
that
I.
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
the
patience
and
the
endurance
of
the
members
of
this
committee
and
at
this
time
I
now
ask
for
a
motion
to
adjourn.
We
have
a
motion
a
second.
We
are
adjourned.