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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Licensing, Occupations, and Administrative Regulations (9-29-22)
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A
A
A
All
right
all
right,
we
do
not
quite
have
enough
to
do
our
minutes.
I
know
that
Senator
fair
is
somewhere
on
campus,
so
we
might
have
others
come
in
I
know,
representative,
spanta
and
Massey
are
speaking
to
our
state
superintendents
this
morning
and
unable
to
make
it
so
that's
a
necessary
important
item
that
they're
engaging
in.
So
we
will
continue
with
the
agenda
and
if
and
when
we
get
to
our
our
number
that
we
need
for
a
quorum.
I'll
have
us
approve
the
minutes
of
the
last
meeting.
A
So
first
up
the
Emergency
Medical
Services
compact
representative
Hart,
please
come
on
down
floor.
Be
yours,
I
know,
you've
got
one
individual
with
you
and
a
few
others
on
Zoom.
A
C
The
zoom
folks
are
going
to
be
testifying
as
well
I'll.
Just
briefly
with
me.
Today
is
retired
breeder
General
Steve
Bullard,
with
the
Kentucky
commit
he's
the
director
of
the
Kentucky
Commission
on
Military
Affairs,
that
I've
been
working
with
on
this
effort
and
I'm
going
to
allow
him
to
introduce
the
people
on
Zoom
that
will
deliver
some
testimony
as
well.
All.
D
Right
well,
thank
you,
everyone
and
with
us
today.
We
also
have
Ray
mohler's
executive
director
for
the
interstate
commission
for
EMS
personal
practice,
Doug
wolfberg
founding
partner,
a
page
Wolf
book
Berg
and
Worf,
and
he's
the
council
to
the
EMS
Compact
and
he's
the
nation's
foremost
EMS
legal
practitioner,
and
we
have
Eric
Sherman
from
the
Department
of
Defense
Southeast
liaison
for
the
defense,
State
liaison
office,
close
partner
of
mine
and
we
of
ours.
So
first,
the
Kentucky
General
Assembly
has
been
a
tremendous
leader
nationally
in
in
occupational
licensing.
Compacts
there's
a
priority.
D
The
Council
of
state
governments
and
the
national
Governors
Association
and
Department
of
Defense
in
the
about
the
2016
time
frame
came
up
with
the
concept
of
supporting
occupational
licensing
compacts
because
a
disproportionately
affect
military
spouses
from
the
transfers
from
state
to
state.
So
we
want
to
do
everything
we
can
to
ease
that
opportunity
to
work
together
as
States
and
and
allow
us
to
get
licensing
done
as
quickly
as
possible
through
the
reciprocity
process.
Department
of
Defense
since
then
has
identified
eight
priority.
D
Compacts
Kentucky,
through
the
leadership
of
the
general
assembly,
has
joined
seven
of
those
eight
compacts.
The
only
one
we
have
not
yet
joined
is
this
one.
The
EMS
compact,
which
ironically,
is
a
very
first
DOD
Compact
and
the
reason
we
did
not
join
it
was.
It
was
not
supported
by
the
Zen
executive
director
of
the
k-beams
Kentucky
Board
of
Emergency
Medical
Services,
a
friend
of
mine,
Chuck,
O'neill
and
Chuck,
was
concerned
about
State
sovereignty,
protecting
that
and
other
issues.
So
he
would
not
give
this
his
support
and
because
of
that,
it
never
moved.
D
So
when
I
took
this
position
over
in
late
2019
I
reached
out
to
Chuck
and
I
said
what
can
we
do?
Try
to
get
your
concerns
addressed
and
what
we
did
last
year
was
Chuck
a
grade
to
outline
all
of
his
concerns
in
writing,
so
that
we
would
have
the
opportunity
to
address
those.
We
did
that
that
is
in
your
handouts.
D
The
nine
questions
that
Chuck
provided
Rick
masters
from
the
Council
of
state
governments,
with
our
assistance,
addressed
all
of
those
questions
very
very
effectively,
and
then
representative
Hart
has
done
a
phenomenal
job,
bringing
together
the
EMS
Community
around
the
the
state.
This
is
important
because
EMS
jobs
are
difficult
to
hire
for
with
certifications,
and
this
would
create
a
very
positive
effort.
That's
been
endorsed
by
the
majority
now
of
the
EMS
community,
so
we
Chuck
agreed
that
those
answers
sufficed
and
he
moved
his
position
early
last
year
from
opposed
to
neutral.
D
You
wouldn't
go
as
far
as
support,
but
he
went
to
neutral
and
everybody
else
is
strongly
in
support
and
then
Chuck
wound
up
leaving
that
position
and
we
have
they're
in
a
position
right
now
hiring
a
new
executive
director,
but
we've
done
just
tremendous
work
in
moving
this
forward.
Getting
the
concerns
addressed,
we
really
feel
now
is
the
time
to
move
forward
on
this
so
I
know.
Eric
has
some
comments
he'd
like
to
make
real
briefly
and
if
I
could
put
it
out
to
Ray,
do
you
have
anything?
Would
you
have
anything
to
add?
D
C
You
Steve
I
I
would
just
like
to
add.
C
D
Sir
Ray
Muller's
executive
director
for
the
interstate
compact,
the
EMS
compact
I,
would
just
like
to
add
that
there
are
currently
22
States
who
have
joined
the
Compact
and
five
of
which
are
our
neighbors
to
the
to
Kentucky,
and
that
would
be
advantageous
to
Kentucky
to
to
join
all
that.
D
That
being
said,
I
think
this
is
an
opportunity
for
the
state
and,
as
the
administrative
lead
representing
the
22
Commissioners
appointed
to
the
commission,
to
manage
the
EMS
compact
I'm
here
to
support
the
state
of
Kentucky
in
any
way
that
I
can
and
most
of
all
here
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
may
have.
Thank
you
and
Ray
recently
had
a
a
nice
conversation
with
Eddie
Sloan
who's.
The
interim
executive
director
of
the
Kentucky
Board
of
Emergency,
Medical,
Services
and
I,
had
asked
him
to
run
by
anything.
D
He
could
possibly
think
of
and
Eddie
supports
the
concept
he
says
he's
concerned
about
the
law
of
unintended
consequences,
which
obviously
that's
always
a
concern,
but
we
really
feel
this
is
in
a
great
position
and
then
lastly,
Eric
Sherman
has
a
couple
of
minutes.
He
would
like
to
address
the
committee
as
well
from
Department
of
Defense,
so
Eric.
If
you
could
introduce
yourself.
E
Thank
you
good
morning,
chairman
contact
committee
members.
My
name
is
Eric
Sherman
I
am
the
Southeast
Regional
liaison
for
the
defense,
State
liaison
office
or
dslo.
We
operate
under
the
direction
of
under
secretary
of
defense
for
personal
Readiness
and
within
the
office
of
the
Deputy
assistant
secretary
of
defense
for
military
community
and
family
policy.
First,
thank
you
for
inviting
the
Department
of
Defense
to
discuss
how
the
Emergency
Medical
Service
interstate
compact
supports
the
military
community.
E
Excuse
me
so,
if
I
may
take
just
two
minutes,
this
legislature
has
already
reviewed
and
passed
seven
professional
licensure
interstate
compacts,
as
previously
stated
so
members
are
already
showing
interesting,
compacts
completing
initial
drafts.
By
now,
this
committee
recognizes
how
interstate
compact
standardized
qualifications
for
Interstate
transfer,
which
alleviates
confusion
for
military
spouses
transferring
between
member
states.
The
committee
is
also
familiar
with
the
reciprocity
Concepts
that
not
only
support
the
military
mobile
lifestyle
but
help
the
Commonwealth
attract
Health,
Care
veterans,
transitioning
out
of
service.
E
The
committee's
already
heard
from
from
some
of
the
others,
and
is
about
to
hear
how
the
EMS
compact
works.
So
at
this
point,
I'd
simply
like
to
reiterate
how
much
the
dod
appreciates
the
invitation
to
testify.
So
we
can
express
the
importance
of
these
professional
licensure
compacts
to
our
families.
We
want
to
thank
representative
Hart
for
his
support
of
the
EMS
compact
thank
the
Kentucky
Commission
on
Military
Affairs
for
their
partnership
and
most
of
all
thank
the
committee
for
your
time
and
attention
to
this
matter.
E
Although
some
states
such
as
Kentucky,
extended
extra
effort
to
help
military
spouses
and
employment
opportunities,
a
military
family's
next
move
to
another
state
can
create
a
new
set
of
problems
since
procedures
are
inconsistent
from
state
to
state.
This
situation
is
alleviated
through
interstate
compacts.
Kentucky
is
currently
one
of
the
most
enthusiastic
members
of
interstate
compacts.
So
to
this
on
behalf
of
our
military
families,
I'd
like
to
thank
you
for
your
participation
and
at
this
point,
I'm
just
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
Eric.
D
By
the
way
is
a
Navy
vet
he
while
he
represents
Department
of
Defense,
he
worked
for.
He
represents
the
Southeast
region
and
works
out
of
Jacksonville
Florida.
So
he's
getting
hammered
right
now
by
the
what
is
now
the
tropical
storm
and
we're
we're
happy,
he
was
able
to
still
have
power
and
join
us
today.
That's
the
I'm
not
going
to
go
into
the
details,
how
the
compact
Works,
unless
anyone
has
any
questions
but
representative
heart.
Let
me
turn
it
over
to
you
and
for
any
questions.
Yeah.
C
This
we've-
this
is
what
our
third
third
or
fourth
attempt
of
pay,
are
getting
the
legislation
through
the
legislation.
C
It's
changed
to
the
effect
that
we
were
able
to
address
every
issue
that
k-beams
had
and
got
them
to
come
on
board
as
neutral
as
a
at
present.
We
are
seeing
no
opposition
from
anybody.
That's
raised
a
concern
because
we've
been
able
to
address
all
their
concerns,
so
I
would
just
like
to
strongly
encourage
everybody.
When
we
go
back
into
session,
we
will
be
filing
the
bill
and
ask
for
continued
support
on
it
and
hopefully
passage
and
commit
a
hearing.
B
B
Chairman,
yes,
sir,
thank
you,
interstate
compacts
are
very
common
in
this
committee
and
or
50
were
individual
sovereign
states
for
a
reason,
and
in
the
Senate
we
always
approach
these
compact.
With
a
lot
of
caution
and
I
know,
you
appreciate
that
representative
heart
because
I
know
you're
I
know
you
pretty
well
and
I.
Thank
you
for
appreciating
that
we
have
every
compact
that
we
have
approved
in
the
Senate.
We've
usually
had
to
make
adjustments
to.
E
B
This
session,
so
we'll
we'll
be
reviewing
it
carefully.
Our
general
counsel,
Senator
David
Givens,
has
made
this
a
special
project
of
of
his
reviewing
these
compacts.
So
we
look
forward
to
working
with
you
on
it,
but
I
just
want
to
emphasize
that
we
I
do
take
State
sovereignty
very
seriously.
C
And
Senator
schickel
I
will
throw
out
as
well.
If
you
all
could
review
this
over
the
next
several
months,
we're
willing
to
make
cop
or
changes
to
the
draft
before
we
file
it
so.
D
And
I'll
also
add
in
that
was,
of
course,
Chuck
O'neill's,
a
major
concern
and
we
have
a
very
strongly
addressed
the
protections
to
the
state
to
retain
its
sovereignty
in
these
issues
and
and
he
agreed
that
he
believed
that
it
was
sufficient.
What
has
been
done.
F
G
C
It
does
nothing
to
affect
the
way
we
license.
Ems
EMTs
and
paramedics
in
this
state.
D
And
I
believe
that's
one
of
the
questions
addressed.
You
know
in
the
responses
to
Chuck
O'neill
thank.
A
Next
up
will
be
electrical
inspections,
while
representative
Pratt
and
his
guests
are
coming
up.
We
have
reached
a
quorum
with
the
arrival
of
Senator,
Thayer
and
representative
Gentry,
so
the
chair
will
entertain
a
motion
for
the
approval
of
the
August
24th
May
meeting
minutes.
A
E
Excuse
me,
my
name
is
Alan
Neal
and
I'm
electrical
inspector
in
Scott
County.
B
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
actually
Mr
Neal
reached
out
to
me
a
while
back
right
now.
As
the
statute
stands
is,
if
you're
elected
inspector,
you
can
do
no
electrical
work
anywhere
anytime
in
or
without
entering
in
your
county
or
any
other
County
he
would
like
to
be
able
to,
and
that
with
you,
if
you
like
me,
have
just
recently
done
some
electrical
work.
B
Luckily,
after
my
12th
call,
I
found
someone
that
actually
do
it,
but
he
would
like
to
be
able
to
actually
work
as
do
electrical
work
outside
of
the
county
he
works
in,
but
right
now,
statue
will
will
not
allow
that
and
I'll.
Let
Mr
Neal
explain
a
little
more
about
this.
E
It's
representative
Pratt,
mentioned
under
the
the
current
KRS
inspectors,
are
not
allowed
to
perform
any
electrical
work
because
for
the
inspector
certification
to
be
active,
my
Master's
Kentucky,
Masters
and
Kentucky
electrical
contractors
had
to
be
put
in
inactive
status.
E
They're
not
allowed
to
be
active
at
the
same
time
and
there's
three
ways
that
you
can
be
an
inspector
as
far
as
a
state
inspector
to
do
State
properties
and
such
as
myself
that
you're
hired
by
a
local
municipality
or
you're
a
private
contractor,
and
you
have
permission
from
a
County
judge,
executive
or
a
mayor
to
perform
those
inspections.
And
so,
for
instance,
my
jurisdiction
is
Scott
County.
E
Once
I
leave,
Scott
County
I
have
no
other
authority
in
any
other
County
and
given
the
demand
for
the
workforce
and
the
time
that
was
put
in
to
earn
those
license
and
also
I
think
it
would
be
beneficial
to
be
able
to
help
non-profits
such
as
Habitat
for
Humanity
or
men
and
women
of
action
under
the
current
laws
that
that
I
can't
perform
that
work.
And
it's
just
something
that
I've
reached
out
to
other
people
and
then
reached
out
to
Mr
Pratt.
To
see
if
this
is
something
that
we
can
make
possible.
B
Again,
he's
not
asking
to
do
work
in
the
county
inspects
it's
working
outside
the
county.
Where
he's
electoral
inspector,
we
do
not
have
a
Bill
draft
ready.
We
want
to
run
a
flagpole
and
actually
the
fact
we
got
an
agenda.
I
got
some
calls
from
some
groups.
After
talking
to
them,
they
said
they
were
fine
with
it.
So
this
is
the
first
step
of
many
all
right
be
glad
to
answer
any.
A
Next
up
we're
Mike
Stone
and
his
guests
to
discuss
the
issue
of
problem
gaming
and
the
solution
for
for
the
topic.
A
A
This
topic
we
are
familiar
with
and
I've
felt
that
it's
important
we've
heard
from
Mr
Stone
before
and
I
believe
that,
given
the
success
we've
had
in.
C
A
Gaming
in
Kentucky
we
like
to
hear
from
the
opponents
that
that
always
causes
problems
and
it's
important
to
bring
solutions
to
those
problems.
That's
that's
what
makes
for
good
governing
so
Mr
Stone
floor
is
yours.
Thank.
G
You
okay,
thank
you,
sir,
and
thank
you
to
co-chair
schickel
and
members
of
the
committee
for
this
opportunity
to
speak
good
morning.
I'm
Mike,
Stone
and
I
serve
as
executive
director
of
the
Kentucky
Council
on
problem
gambling
with
me.
Today
are
three
members
of
the
council
board
of
directors,
Dr
Scott
hunt,
Dr,
Curtis,
L,
Barrett
and
John
G
Arnett.
Please
note
that
their
qualifications
are
in
the
full
written
statement
that
was
submitted
for
the
committee
record
in
the
interest
of
time.
G
I
will
summarize
the
highlights
of
the
full
statement
in
these
oral
remarks
and
I
hope.
The
committee
will
be
able
to
review
the
full
statement.
We
will
be
pleased
to
answer
any
questions
either
this
morning
or
later.
Let's
begin
by
making
it
clear,
the
council
is
not
anti-gambling.
G
The
council's
mission
is
to
increase
awareness
of
problem
gambling,
promote
prevention
and
research
and
advocate
for
the
availability
of
treatment.
The
council
cites
evidence
that
excessive
gambling
is
a
public
health
issue
that
can
be
best
addressed
through
a
state-operated
program
of
evidence-based
approaches
to
prevention,
mitigation
and
counseling.
The
council
is
not
advocating
for
any
funding
for
itself.
G
G
That
noted
the
council
does
oppose
illegal
and
unregulated
gambling
that
preys
on
the
vulnerable
and
makes
no
contribution
to
the
public
welfare.
This
opposition
covers
all
forms
of
illegal,
potentially
illegal
unsupervised
and
unregulated
gambling,
with
expanded
gambling
available
in
Kentucky.
More
people
will
be
closer
to
increased
gambling
opportunity.
G
G
This
is
the
the
horse
tracks
that
are
available
in
the
state.
The
x
marks
the
ones
that
have
been
granted
but
may
not
yet
be
in
operation.
This
is
historical
racing
venues
in
the
state.
G
This
is
charitable
gaming.
Bingo
halls
in
and
other
charitable
activities
at
associated
with
the
associations
and
and
Community
groups,
and
that
is
the
number
of
Lottery
retailers
across
the
state.
If
people
gamble
some
will
develop
a
gambling
problem
or
addiction,
a
gambling
problem
is
evident
when
someone
continues
to
gamble,
in
spite
of
recurring
negative
consequences
resulting
from
the
gambling
activity.
G
Some
of
the
key
statistics
presented
in
Dr
Hunt's
research
analysis,
which
is
attached
to
the
full
report
up
to
160
000
Kentucky
adults
would
have
problem
gambling
traits
more
than
64
000
Kentucky
adults
have
gambling
addiction,
almost
16
000
Kentucky
college
students
have
a
gambling
addiction
and
more
than
fifteen
thousand
prison
probation
and
parole
adults
in
Kentucky
have
a
gambling
addiction
point
out
that
19
percent
is
one
of
the
major
concerns
with
addicted
gambling.
19
percent
of
those
with
problem
gambling
have
considered
suicide
and
4.7
percent
of
those
with
problem.
G
Gambling
have
attempted
suicide
additional
evidence
that
problem
and
addictive
gambling
is
increasing
in
Kentucky
Is.
The
participation
in
Gamblers
Anonymous
meetings
is
growing.
In
Lexington,
the
gambler's
Anonymous
phone
list
has
doubled
in
the
last
two
years.
Calls
and
texts
to
the
1-800
Gambler
helpline
also
show
a
significant
increase.
In
the
last
two
years.
The
call
and
text
contacts
increased
27
percent
from
20
to
21
and
those
provided
with
a
reportable
service,
increased
80
percent.
G
If
you
add
in
the
numbers,
through
the
first
three
quarters
of
2022,
the
number
of
callers
and
text
contacts
reported
with
a
reportable
service
as
doubled,
as
you
can
see,
from
the
maps
of
the
locations
of
certified
Gambler
counselors
and
Gamblers
Anonymous
meetings,
they're
minuscule,
compared
to
the
availability
of
gambling
opportunity.
This
is
the
ga
meetings
with
accessible
from
Kentucky
residents,
and
this
is
the
location
of
the
seven
certified
Gambler
counselors
that
are
in
the
state.
G
The
general
assembly
did
previously
acknowledge
the
existence
of
problem
and
addicted
gambling
in
the
2003
legislative
research.
Commission
report
number
316
compulsive
gambling
in
Kentucky,
and
let
me
take
a
personal
side
note
here
that
the
the
resolution
that
caused
that
report
to
be
drafted
was
introduced
and
led
by
Senator.
Then
representative,
C.B
Embry,
and
he
has
been
a
champion
to
this
cause.
For
the
past
20
years
and
I
note
that
on
the
occasion
of
his
announced
retirement
this
week,
the
report
supported
the
need
for
publicly
funded
program
to
address
problem
and
addicted.
G
Gambling
next
year
will
Mark
the
20th
anniversary
of
that
report,
and
there
still
is
no
publicly
funded
program
to
address
problem
and
addicted
gambling
in
the
state.
Society
pays
for
the
criminal
justice
and
governmental
Social
Services
in
place
to
address
the
societal
problems.
The
impact
is
far
from
just
that.
Individual
Society
shares
the
cost.
In
the
coming
year,
the
state
will
receive
about
400
million
dollars
in
receipts
from
legislatively
sanctioned
gambling
less
than
one
half
of
one
percent
of
the
revenue.
G
From
that
legally
sanctioned
gambling
would
fund
a
credible
awareness
prevention
and
treatment
program
in
this
state.
The
council
urges
the
general
assembly
to
designate
a
portion
of
the
revenue
received
from
legal
gambling
to
fund
a
public
program
of
problem
and
addicted
gambling,
education,
prevention
and
counseling
services.
The
opportunity
and
the
means
are
before
the
general
assembly
I.
Thank
you
for
your
time
and
consideration.
Mr
Arnett
and
Dr
Barrett
have
a
couple
of
brief
comments
and
then
we
are
available
to
respond
to
any
questions
the
committee
may
have.
Thank
you
very
much
very.
A
Good,
however,
you,
whatever
order
you
go
in,
please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
and
give
us
a
minute
or
two
of
your
experience.
Thank
you.
F
I'm
John
Arnett
I'm,
a
formerly
practicing
attorney
Forum
from
northern
Kentucky
and
I'm.
Also
a
recovering
gambling
addict
I'm,
well
aware
of
the
need
for
publicly
funded,
publicly
funded
program
for
gambling
awareness,
addiction
and
treatment
it
at
the
time
that
I
was
going
through
the
active
part
of
my
addiction.
F
There
were
no
gambling
counselors
in
Northern
Kentucky.
There
are
no
treatment
facilities
in
Northern,
Kentucky
I'm,
well
aware
of
the
need
for
publicly
funded
gambling
programs
for
gambling
addiction,
awareness
and
treatment
I've
been
in
recovery
now
for
nine
years,
but
it
took
being
in
prison
for
three
years
to
break
that
cycle
of
addiction.
F
H
H
I
do
hope
that
this
addiction,
which
has
humbled
many
of
my
patients
in
the
past
years,
will
receive
the
attention
of
the
of
the
committee.
It
is
greatly
needed
and
we
have
learned
as
professionals
over
the
years
that
we
can't
do
this
by
ourselves.
It's
too
big
for
the
professions.
It
requires
a
public
awareness
and
public
action
and
Public
Funding.
A
Appreciate
it,
there
are
a
few.
Let
me
just
make
a
couple
comments.
First,
House
Bill
607
that
was
passed
this
past
year.
A
A
couple
items
get
get
a
lot
of
the
attention
from
it,
but
one
that
has
not
gotten
the
attention
is
that
all
the
HHR
facilities
need
to
have
a
self-exclusion
list
for
anyone
who's
having
issues
and
maintain
that
and
share
that
with
the
other
facilities,
so
that
you
know
we
can
address
that
issue
in
in
that
way,
which
is
obviously
a
a
free
method
of
help.
But
it's
one
of
many
pieces
of
that
puzzle.
A
So
I
was
glad
that
we
were
able
to
do
that
and,
as
I
think
everyone
on
this
committee
knows
I
had
a
bill
last
year
to
take
a
windfall
that
we
were
receiving
for
for
a
lawsuit
settlement
regarding
illegal
gaming,
online
gaming
for
225
million,
and
it
was
trimmed
down
by
the
house
to
75
million
and
the
floor
Amendment
and
but
got
through
and
made
its
way
over
the
Senate,
and
that
money
has
now
gone.
The
general
fund
and
I'm
sure
has
been
budgeted
and
on
its
way
to
being
spent.
A
So
it's
going
to
be
a.
We
have
to
find
a
different
method
going
forward,
but
I
would
challenge
the
members
of
this
committee
next
year
to
to
find
a
way
to
make
that
happen
with
that
coach
air
Circle.
B
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
just
you
know,
John
Arnett
is
probably
one
of
the
oldest
friends
or
longest
friends.
I've
had
in
Boone
County
one
of
the
first
people,
I
met
when
I
moved
to
Boone
County
in
1977,
and
we've
been
through
a
lot
together
and
I.
Take
everything
he
tells
me
very
seriously.
He's
talked
to
me
a
lot
about
this
issue
and
John,
who
would
ever
thought
40
years
ago
when
we
were
running
around
together
that
this
would
be
our
topic,
but
I
appreciate
you
being
here.
B
B
I
Thank
you,
Mr
chair.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
presentation.
This
is
always
enlightening.
It's
good
to
talk
about
and
I'm
a
huge
proponent
of
treatment
for
any
addiction
and
I'm
I'm
curious
when
I
read
through
the
list
of
functions
of
of
these
funds
and
and
the
establishment
of
this
board
on
in
three
section
one.
Three
e
you
talk
about.
I
G
Ultimately,
that
will
be
decisions
of
regulations
from
the
Department
of
Behavioral,
Health,
Developmental
intellectual
disabilities.
Our
I
guess,
recommendation
or
discussion
would
be
that
those
Rec
that
those
funds
would
flow
through
either
a
certified
gambling
counselor,
who
would
bill
for
services
rendered
as
they
do,
for
treatment
of
substance
use
and
that
would
primarily
and
it's
getting
larger
go-to
insurance
companies,
not
all
insurance
companies
cover
addicted
gambling
treatment.
So
then
there
would
have
to
be
some
kind
of
through
regulation
fall
back
that
the
funds
in
the
program
would
support
that
counseling
treatment.
G
That
would
all
come
through
the
the
department.
I
Okay,
thank
you
and
if
I
may
just
quickly
one
more
you
you
touched
on
my
second
question
about
insurance
coverage
and
you
know
a
lot
of
times.
We
work
through
these
issues
when
we
talk
about
specific
diagnoses
and
whether
or
not
they
there's
a
billing
code,
Dr
Barrett,
I'm
sure
you're
familiar
with
all
of
this,
and
you
know
sometimes
it.
You
know
it's
additional
work
to
work
with.
I
You
know
the
the
folks
who
come
up
with
those
ICD-10
billing
codes,
and
that
would
be
the
AMA
and
you
know,
is
there
a
specific
need
for
a
billing
code
for
for
gambling
addiction,
so
I
mean
that's.
You
know
another
way
to
handle
this.
This
larger
problem
of
insurance
coverage
I
think
this
is
good.
I,
don't
know
that
150
000
is
enough
to
cover
any
any
sort
of
real
treatment,
but
I
think
it's
a
start
for
for
an
awareness
campaign.
So
thank
you
for
for
bringing
this
yeah.
G
One
half
of
one
percent
of
the
money
that
the
state
will
take
in
in
the
coming
year
would
be
somewhere
between
1.5
and
2
million
dollars.
That
would
then
go
to
the
work
through
the
Department
of
Behavioral
Health
and
be
administered
by
whatever
regulations
that
would
be
established.
J
Thanks
Mr
chair
and
my
question
is
both
for
Mr
Stone
and
Mr
Arnett.
First
Preparatory,
let
me
be
very
transparent,
so
I,
so
you
know
where
I'm
coming
from
I've
been
supportive
of
expanded
gaming
in
Kentucky.
Since
I
arrived
in
the
Senate
I'm
supportive
of
sports
gaming,
you
know
every
time
I've
had
a
chance
to
vote
on
those
I
voted
for
it.
So
I
just
want
you
to
know
where
I'm
coming
from
having
said
that,
I
do
recognize
that
that
gambling
is
addictive
and.
J
Have
problems
with
it
so
I
want
to
begin
with
you
first
Mr
Stone,
and
my
first
question
is:
how
does
this
work?
Are
we
talking
about
what
we
see
with
regard
to
alcohol,
addiction
or
drug
addiction,
where
we
wean
someone
who
has
a
gambling
problem
off
of
gambling?
Our
families
involved
like
like
we
doing
alcohol
and
drugs?
J
Are
there
peer
peer,
counseling
sessions
or
peer
sessions
where,
where
those
were
gambling
additions,
get
together
and
talk
about
their
problems
and
and
work
out
again
they're
they're
getting
off
of
gambling
and
not
doing
it
again?
How
do
you
see
this
working
in
in
terms
of
the
nuts
and
bolts.
G
G
Do
the
administrative
work
for
the
council,
but
been
doing
it
for
24
years,
so
I've
got
I've,
attended
some
meetings
and
and
listened
to
folks
talk
and
the
road
to
recovery
is
first
self-awareness
and
then,
in
large
measure
it
is
professional
counseling
services
to
identify
what
the
real
root
cause
is
of
the
addiction
and
then
Continuing
Care
through
Gamblers
Anonymous
and
I'd
certainly
defer
to
Mr
Arnett
and
to
Dr
Barrett
who's,
a
certified
Gambler
counselor.
On
the
specifics
of
how
all
of
that
takes
place.
J
J
You
know
when
the
state
appropriates
money
to
for
people
who
have
a
an
addictive
problem
when
it
comes
to
gambling?
What
what?
What
are
the
processes
by
which
you
treat
that
addiction
and
get
that
person
off
that
addiction.
F
For
a
start,
we
need
more
adequate
certified
gambling
therapists.
F
At
the
time
of
my
addiction,
there
are
nine
in
Northern
Kentucky
and,
unfortunately,
by
the
time
I
found
a
gambling
therapist
in
Louisville
I
was
too
caught
up
in
the
throes
of
my
addiction
for
it
to
really
benefit
me.
Secondly,
representative
Moser
mentioned
about
insurance.
F
Unless
it's
changed
dramatically,
there
are
no
private
insurance
companies
that
cover
gambling
addiction
and
if
there
are,
there
are
very
few
so
I
didn't
have
the
help
that
way.
The
biggest
problem
that
I
had
when
I
was
in
the
throes
of
my
addiction
was
being
aware
of
how
I
was
sliding
into
it.
Can
it
completely
controlling
my
life,
so,
hopefully
the
legis?
The
legislation
would
would
fund
first,
the
employment
of
gambling
therapist.
Secondly,
it
would
fund
treatment
programs
when
I
saw
a
need
for
an
inpatient
treatment
program.
K
F
A
program,
the
cost
of
an
inpatient
treatment
program
is
far
in
excess
of
what
I
believe
in
alcohol
in
treatment
program
is.
I
saw
rains
of
anywhere
between
twelve
thousand
to
fifty
thousand
dollars
for
a
30-day
program,
so
that
would
be
the
second
way
it
would
benefit.
Someone
like
me:
okay,
hope
that
answers
your
question.
It
does.
J
And
being
from
Lexington
I
have
to
say
I'm
dismayed
to
see
in
your
PowerPoint
that
Lexington
does
not
have
a
certified
gambling
counselor
I'm,
just
shocked
to
see
that
that
that
takes
place,
I
see
the
the
doctor
over
there
shaking
his
head
Notting
nodding
that
that
that
that
that
is
indeed
the
case.
My
second
question
is
this
and
I'm
back
to
you
Mr
Stone.
What
do
we
do
in
areas?
I
know
we
do
a
lot
with
drug
addiction,
the
state.
J
In
fact,
this
past
budget
cycle,
we
increased
our
appropriation
significantly
to
deal
with
drug
addiction
efforts
across
the
state.
What
do
we
do
in
regard
to
alcohol
conviction,
addiction,
because
we've
had
alcohol
in
Kentucky
as
long
as
we've
had
gambling?
So
so,
do
you
have
a
similar
type
of
program
for
for
for
people
who
have
alcohol,
addictive
problems.
G
J
A
Thank
you,
Senator
I,
I
think
I'm,
not
an
expert
in
this
field,
but
from
the
research
I've
done,
I
think
it's
safe
to
say
that
there's
a
lot
of
crossover
between
issues
with
with
people.
So
there's
you
get
them
in
one
place.
You
might
get
them
in
the
give
them
a
holistic
bit
of
help
representative
Gentry
you're
up
next
and
then
we've
got.
F
L
Thank
you,
Mr,
chair,
I'll,
try
to
be
brief.
My
question
is
really
was
more
related
to
or
more
directed
toward
John,
but
before
I
asked
the
question.
Let
me
just
make
a
quick
comment.
Mike,
you
know,
I've
been
a
supporter
of
this
and
appreciate
you
guys
being
here.
L
As
you
guys
know,
as
many
of
my
colleagues
on
on
this
committee
know,
I
I
am
a
big
advocate
for
gaming
and
expanded
gaming.
Okay.
If
it's
done
right
and
I've
I've
always
said
one
of
the
glaring
omissions
in
that
activity
in
this
state.
Is
this
issue
right
here
just
about
every
state
across
the
country
that
has
legalized
gaming
has
some
sort
of
tax
revenue
provision
that
that
contributes
to
dealing
with
this
addiction.
L
L
It's
Community
cost
and
I'm
a
huge
supporter
of
putting
public
funds
aside
from
tax
revenues
that
are
gathered
in
these
activities,
to
put
a
robust
program
together
to
treat
this
problem
because
we
know
it's
treatable,
because
John
is
a
living
example
here
in
front
of
us
that
if,
if
people
get
help
quick
enough,
it
can
be
treated
and
my
question
to
you
John
is
you
know
in
this
particular
piece
of
of
legislation.
We
have
in
front
of
us
there's
a
hundred.
Fifty
thousand
dollar
number
I
think
we
know
that.
That's
that's
peanuts!
L
Thank
you
and
you
probably
don't
have
the
answer
to
this.
Senator
Thomas
has
hit
on
this
a
little
bit
asking
you
how
this
would
work
and-
and
my
question
was
going
to
be
more
on
the
lines
of
what
is
the
most
effective
measures.
Where
could
we
use
funds
more
effectively,
which
you
you
have
answered,
that
from
a
counselor
standpoint,
any
ideas
and
I
guess
this
could
be
directed
to
any
of
you
guys
to
have
a
very
effective
program
in
place?
L
G
Year,
the
National
Association
of
Administrators
of
disordered
gambling
Services,
that's
a
mouthful,
they
they're,
that's
the
administrators
among
the
40
states
that
have
publicly
funded
programs.
They
had
a
survey
and
indicated
that
23
cents
per
person
was
the
average
funding
that
was
Public
Funding.
That
was
dedicated
across
the
states
in
the
survey,
and
you
extrapolate
that
out
at
somewhere
between
1
and
1.5
million,
depending
on
how
many
population
which
segment
of
the
population
you
want
to
talk
about
full
population,
the
adult
population,
whichever
you
want
to
carve
out.
L
I
appreciate
that
and
I
know,
once
you
get
rolling
and
really
start
treating
patients
and
having
successes,
you're
going
to
have
a
lot
better
idea
of
exactly
what
it
costs
to
run
most
efficient
program
for
us,
but
I
think
the
biggest
thing
right
now
is
for
all
my
colleagues
to
understand
is
the
real
need
to
put
this
program
into
place
and
to
provide
some
public
assistance
so
that
it
can
be
an
effective
and
efficient
program.
Thank
you
very
much
Mr
chair,
thank.
M
F
The
treatment-
yes,
okay,
that's
me,
John
Harnett,
let
me
say
first,
the
treatment
that
I
received
was
much
too
late.
F
I
went
to
a
therapist
after
I'd,
been
in
the
interactive
gambling
for
probably
seven
or
eight
years,
I'd,
never
gambled
any
at
any
Casino
location
in
my
life
until
1999.,
and
it
didn't
take
long
for
the
addiction
to
take
hold
of
me,
because
the
thing
that
happened
to
me
first
is
the
thing.
That
is
the
worst
thing
that
can
happen
to
a
gambling
addict,
and
that
is
a
one.
Big
I
want
a
huge
amount
of
money.
F
F
So
by
the
time
that
I
was
aware
of
my
problem,
my
family
was
well
aware
of
the
problem.
They
were
asking
me
to
seek
help,
but
you've
got
to
understand
an
addiction.
This
powerful
just
takes
over
everything
about
your
life.
By
the
time
I
sought
treatment
with
a
therapist
in
Louisville.
It
was
a
little
too
late.
F
F
More
importantly,
it
would
have
been
really
beneficial
if
we'd
had
some
therapists
in
my
area,
so
I
wouldn't
have
to
travel
such
a
distance
to
seek
help.
Secondly,
it
would
have
been
immensely
helpful
to
me
if
I
could
have
gotten
an
inpatient
treatment
program
early
during
the
cycle
of
addiction
and
something
I
want
to
make
really
clear
to
all
members
of
this
committee.
F
Gamblers
are
Anonymous
is
not
a
treatment
program.
It's
a
volunteer
program
for
people
with
a
Gammon
addiction
and
members
of
their
family
if
they
want
to
attend
to
attend,
and
basically
what
Gamblers
Anonymous
does
doesn't
really
make
you
aware
of
what
the
gambling
addiction
is.
It
just
gives
you
an
opportunity
to
voice
your
life
and
your
activities
and
and
what
what
has
happened
to
you
in
a
group
of
other
assembly-minded
individuals-
it's
not
intended
for
treatment.
It's
there.
Just
it's
like
a
group
session.
F
F
In
the
nine
years,
I've
been
in
recovery,
I've
never
fallen
back
one
time,
I've,
never
gambled
one
time.
There
are
people
in
the
program
that
I
attend
that
have
gone
back
to
gamble
because
they
thought
well
I'm,
I'm.
Okay,
now
I
can
handle
this
now,
so
I
can't
persuade
you
enough
to
to
be
in
favor
of
legislation
like
what
we're
proposing
to
help
find.
First
of
all,
awareness
that
800
number
that
you
see
advertised
forget
that
800
number
all
you
have
on
the
other
end
of
that
line.
Is
someone
answering
some
questions.
M
Well,
one
thing:
I
would
suggest
that
you
increase
the
money
you're
asking
for
to
start
with
and
I
think
the
industry
that
helps
create.
This
problem
should
also
be
contributing
money
to
that
treatment.
Also
because
they're,
by
offering
this
service
they're
offering
the
fact
that
people
can
become
addicted.
Just
like
like
alcoholism
is,
of
course,
is
an
addiction
to
it.
I
never
suffered
from
alcohol
problem,
but
my
dad
did
and
AAA
Help
team
as
long
as
he
stayed
in
it,
but
he
he
wants
an
alcoholic
you're.
M
F
M
To
fall
back
into
that
problem,.
M
J
Thank
you
Mr,
chairman
and
gentlemen.
Thank
you
so
very
much
for
your
presentation
this
morning.
Instead
of
a
question
I'll
make
this
a
very
short
just
sort
of
eye-opener.
There's
no
doubt
that
we
that
we
don't
have
enough
certified
gambling
therapists.
None
of
us
could
could
even
come
close
to
how
many
are
out
there
at
this
particular
time.
One
of
my
concerns
is
always
with
starting
new
funding
streams.
J
It
seems
that
we
have
universities
that
we
already
pay
for
to
a
great
extent,
and
many
and
much
of
what
we
need
to
do
is
is
produce
counselors.
Those
are
things
that
we
can
do
through
other
areas
rather
than
creating
new
funding
streams,
especially
when
we're
going
to
try
to
produce
therapists
that
we
can
produce
through
our
universities.
There's
no
doubt
that
there
are
a
lot
of
degrees
that
are
being
offered
now.
J
That
really
have
no
end
point
in
terms
of
in
jobs
I'm
more
than
happy
to
to
listen
to
to
listen
to
you
all
move
in
this
particular
direction,
but
I
do
think
we
need
to
start
utilizing
some
of
the
facilities
that
we
already
have.
J
Instead
of
creating
new
funding
streams,
I
think
our
our
taxpayers
and
the
Commonwealth
are
probably
getting
a
little
bit
tired
of
having
to
pay
for
a
lot
of
things
that
perhaps
they
don't
really
participate
in,
and
so
I
just
want
to
throw
this
out
for
this
committee
and
for
the
general
assembly
in
general.
Instead
of
creating
new
funding
streams,
simply
look
at
some
of
our
pre-existing
Avenues.
Thank
you
very
much.
Mr
chairman.
D
You
Mr
chairman
I,
supported,
supported
your
problem
gambling
Bill
last
session.
I
thought
it
was
pretty
good
idea,
especially
everything
that
we've
done.
My
question,
for
you,
gentlemen,
is
do
any
of
the
charitable
gaming,
the
pyramidal
wagering,
the
Lottery,
all
the
vfw's
race
tracks.
Is
there
any
organic
gambling
organization
out
there?
That
contributes.
G
Number
one
in
terms
of
our
Council
funding:
most
of
them
do
contribute
to
what
we
do.
We
have
a
budget
of
about
eighty
thousand
dollars
a
year
and,
and
we
are
the
ones
that
provide
the
1-800
Gambler
helpline
service
in
cooperation
with
River
Valley,
Behavioral
Health
and
the
awareness
information
the
Kentucky
Lottery
pays
for
part
of
the
tax
check
services
additional
on
that
contract
and
billboards
that
you
might
see
on
problem
gambling.
G
Otherwise,
the
horse
racing
industry
does
use
signage
at
the
venues
and
in
their
program
books
about
the
publicizing
the
1-800
number,
but
most
of
their.
The
awareness
money
for
this
issue
is
what
they
contribute
to
our
Council.
They
say
it's
avar,
eighty
thousand
dollars
the
industry
is
probably
fifty
thousand
dollars
of
of
that
80
000..
G
So
that's
their
that's
the
contribution
that
they
they
are
making
and
if
I
can
add,
just
slightly
a
general
statement
that
the
focuses
seem
to
be
on
on
the
treatment
issue,
and
that
is
definitely
important.
But
the
prevention
and
awareness
aspect
of
this
issue
is,
it
may
be
even
more
important
to
as
our
society
moves
towards
a
a
legitimate
organization
and
acceptance
of
gambling
as
part
of
our
culture.
G
We
need
to
have
programs
that
educate
and
aware
make
people
aware
of
what
the
potential
is,
and
that
is
also
what
a
large
part
of
the
money
that
we're
talking
about
would
go
toward.
G
I
do
appreciate
the
comment
we
do,
that
the
evidence
that
has
been
collected
in
Academia
and
other
states
is
that
there
is
a
significant
social
cost
involved
from
gambling
and
with
the
state
receiving
as
much
money
as
it
is
coming
from
the
gambling
that
it
sanctions
that
it
seems
reasonable
to
us
that
a
portion
of
that
go
towards
prevention,
awareness,
education
and
treatment.
A
Thank
you
all
very
much.
We
appreciate
it
and
we
have
one
last
topic:
Joshua
Gaines,
who
is
testifying
remotely.
We
might
need
a
computer
expertise
to
get
out
of
that
and
get
Joshua
up.
I
had
the
honor
of
being
one
of
three
members
of
Kentucky
to
be
part
of
a
national
Consortium
to
discuss
best
practices
and
Licensing
I
believe
it
was
funded
by
a
national,
Governors,
Association,
CSG
and
ncsl,
and
we
had
a
slowed
down
a
little
bit
by
covid.
But
we
had
a
final
conference
to
go
over.
A
All
our
topics
and
and
Joshua
gave
a
presentation
which
I
thought
was
very
good
and
I
thought
it
would
be
important
for
the
committee
to
hear
what
Joshua
and
this
Consortium
came
up
with
on
this
topic.
So
Joshua
I
appreciate
you
sitting
through
an
hour's
worth
of
other
topics
so
that
we
can
hear
what
you
have
to
say
and
please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
the
floor
is
yours.
K
Absolutely
and
thank
you
for
the
invitation,
it's
a
pleasure
to
be
here:
I'm,
Josh,
Gaines,
I'm,
a
project
manager
for
the
corrections
and
re-entry
division
at
the
Council
of
state
governments,
Justice
Center
I
one
to
talk
today
about
expanding
access
to
licensure
for
Kentucky
workers
with
criminal
histories
and
really
frame
it
within
the
context
of
National
Best
Practices.
What
other
states
are
doing
where
other
states
have
found
success
in
terms
of
policies.
A
K
Yes
and
I'll
be
referring
to
some
of
that,
as
as
we
go
through
this
real
quick
if
you're
not
familiar
with
the
Council
of
State
government's
Justice
Center.
As
the
chair
mentioned,
we
were
involved
in
the
National
Occupational
licensing
Consortium,
along
with
NGA
and
ncsl,
we're
a
national
non-profit,
nonpartisan
organization
that
combines
the
power
of
a
membership
Association
serving
State
officials
and
All
State.
Pardon
me
in
all
three
branches
of
government,
with
policy
and
research
expertise
to
develop
strategies
that
increase
Public,
Safety
and
strength
in
communities.
K
A
short
way
of
saying
that
is,
we
are
sort
of
the
criminal
justice
focused
arm
of
CSG,
which
obviously
is
a
much
larger
organization
with
a
much
broader
Focus.
K
One
of
the
things
that
we've
been
doing
over
the
past
two
years
is
engaging
in
what
we
call
our
fair
chance
licensing
project.
We've
worked
on
this
in
a
broad
array
of
states
and
our
role
on
this
project
sort
of
like
my
role
here
today,
is
to
identify
best
practices
and
provide
National
contact.
Pardon
me,
National
context
for
the
states
we're
interested
in
helping
States
recover
from
the
economy
enhance
good,
paying
job
access,
improved.
K
Re-Entry
and
Public
Safety
and
provide
businesses
with
a
qualified
candidate
pool
and
just
as
a
little
plug.
If
you
have
any,
you
know
additional
questions,
you
can
always
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
me
and
I'll
have
some
email
information
at
the
end,
but
we
also
have
a
website
for
our
project
that
includes
an
overview
of
issues,
explanation
of
best
practices
and
stories
from
legislators
and
impacted
people
which
I
encourage
you
to
visit
if
you're
interested.
K
So
since
we're
talking
about
people
with
criminal
histories,
I
want
to
provide
just
some
broad
context
about
that.
A
2022
analysis
done
by
the
prison
policy
initiative
based
on
a
cohort
of
people
released
from
federal
prison
in
22.
K
Pardon
me
in
2010
found
the
following:
33
of
those
released
never
found
a
job
within
four
years
after
release,
60
or
more
were
jobless
at
any
time
during
those
four
years
and
for
those
looking
for
work,
the
unemployment
rate
hovered
around
30
36
percent
during
all
four
of
those
years
for
the
people
that
were
able
to
find
work,
most
of
the
jobs
were
unstable
and
earnings
were
well
below
the
median
income.
Now
I
mentioned.
K
That's
data
based
on
the
2010
cohort,
which
is
the
most
recent
data
that
the
Federal
Bureau
of
prisons
had
available,
but
this
is
bored
out
in
more
recent
research
as
well.
So
a
2022
Rand
Corporation
study
using
data
from
1997
to
2017
estimates
that
30
or
probably
46
of
unemployed
men
have
a
conviction
record
for
a
non-traffic
offense
by
the
age
of
35.,
and
it's
probably
no
surprise
that
these
discrepancies
in
employment
rates
among
the
general
population
and
people
who
have
been
involved
in
the
criminal
justice
system.
K
Much
like
many
others
differs
widely
based
on
race.
So
you
can
see
on
this
chart.
On
the
left
hand,
side.
These
are
the
discrepancies
in
in
unemployment
among
racial
groups
and
genders
for
the
U.S
population,
age,
35
and
30
34..
If
you
look
on
the
right
size,
that's
the
same
group
for
people
who
have
been
formerly
incarcerated,
those
unemployment
rates,
and
you
can
see
between
white
men,
black
women,
black
men
and
white
women,
the
the
difference
in
those
rates
expands
dramatically
and,
of
course,
employment
is
a
public
safety
issue.
K
People
who
can
work
are
less
likely
to
reoffend.
They
form
more
positive
social
relationships,
they're
able
to
provide
for
themselves
and
stay
away
from
illegal
activity
as
a
means
of
potentially
providing
for
themselves
and
they're
able
to
engage
in
pro-social
activities.
There
are
also
a
lot
of
economic
benefits
to
putting
people
who
have
been
involved
in
the
criminal
justice
system
back
to
work.
One
study
found
that
87
billion
dollars
are
lost
annually
due
to
barriers
to
work
faced
by
people
with
felonies
a
study
in
Philadelphia.
K
It's
a
bit
old
in
2011
found
that
putting
100
formula
incarcerated
people
back
to
work
resulted
in
a
1.9
million
lifetime
increase
in
tax
contributions
to
the
state,
including
a
770
000
lifetime
increase
in
sales
tax
revenue.
So
the
economy
has
a
lot
to
gain
from
this
as
well.
So
why
is
licensed
work
important
for
this
population?
K
K
The
hourly
wage
difference
between
workers
with
licensure
and
workers
without
licensure
is
six
dollars
and
20
cents.
That
again
is
according
and
that
that's
a
national
figure
I
should
I
should
add.
But
that's
according
to
a
2018
study
as
well,
so
licensed
jobs
are
good
jobs.
They
are
generally
more
stable,
they
pay
better.
They
have
opportunities
for
Upward
Mobility
that
are
often
lacking
in
unlicensed
jobs.
At
the
same
time,
there
are
292
provisions
of
Kentucky
statutes
and
regulations
that
create
barriers
to
licensure
for
people
with
criminal
histories.
K
There
are
a
few
features
of
those
barriers
to
licensure
the
two
most
important
when
we
analyze
them
are
whether
they
are
time
limited.
That
is
whether
a
barrier
to
licensure
expires,
a
certain
amount
of
time
after
you've
been
convicted
or
completed
your
sentence
and
whether
it's
mandatory
or
discretionary,
which
is
to
say
whether
the
barrier
has
to
be
imposed
in
every
instance,
where
a
person
has
a
disqualifying
conviction
or
whether
the
decision
maker,
the
licensing
board,
can
choose
whether
to
impose
it
or
not,
and
Kentucky.
K
83
of
these
292
barriers
are
indefinite
in
nature.
They
persist
for
the
duration
of
a
person's
life
generally,
unless
they
receive
relief
in
the
form
of
expungement,
sealing
a
pardon
or
something
similar.
K
To
give
you
an
idea
of
sort
of
what
these
look
like.
This
is
the
law
governing
admission
or
pardon
me,
licensure,
of
cosmetologists
in
Kentucky.
You
can
see
here.
This
is
a
discretionary
barrier.
The
board
May
refuse
to
issue
or
renew
a
license
for
conviction
of
a
felony
in
accordance
with
chapter
30,
335
B,
which
we'll
look
at
in
a
second.
So
what
this
is
essentially
saying
is,
if
you
have
a
felony,
we
may
deny
your
licensure
for
cosmetology
period.
K
Now
you
don't
have
to.
If
you
are
on
the
cosmetology
board,
deny
somebody
with
a
felony.
So
it
seems
in
that
sense
that
it's
far
preferable
to
these
kind
of
mandatory
barriers
and
and
provides
kind
of
a
a
way
out
of
some
of
the
more
Draconian
unfair,
harsh
penalties
to
licensure
faced
by
people
with
criminal
histories,
but
that's
not
necessarily
the
case
and
practice.
K
So
I'd
like
you
to
consider
for
a
moment
what
it
looks
like
for
a
person
with
a
criminal
history
with
a
felony
in
Kentucky
thinking
about
going
to
get
their
cosmetology
license.
The
calculation
they
have
to
walk
through
is
should
I
spend
12
to
16
months
in
a
training
program
for
cosmetology.
That
will
get
me
my
general
licensure
requirements,
and
that
figure
is,
is
from
data
relevant
specifically
to
programs
within
the
state
of
Kentucky
and
should
I
spend
12
568,
which
is
the
average
program
cost
in
Kentucky
for
tuition
expenses.
K
If
licensure
is
going
to
be
uncertain
because
of
my
conviction,
because
the
fact
is,
you
cannot
get
a
determination
in
Kentucky
about
whether
your
criminal
history
is
disqualifying
until
you
meet
those
General
requirements
and
are
able
to
apply
for
a
full
license.
As
a
result,
many
people
say
you
know:
I
will
do
something
else.
There
is
a
lot
of
self-selection
out
of
any
licensed
occupations
any
though
even
those
that
people
would
ultimately
be
qualified
through,
if
or
for
if
they
were
willing
to
take
the
risk
in
investing
time
and
money
up
front.
K
So
this
is
just
one
of
the
issues
that
states
have
tackled
recently
over
half
the
states
have
enacted
broadly
applicable,
fair
chance,
Licensing
Laws
and
more
one
form
or
another
they're
based
on
three
major
principles.
One
is
that
licensing
bodies
ought
to
have
the
authority
to
deny
applicants
with
past
convictions
so
long
as
they're
related
to
the
tasks
and
duties
of
the
licensed
activity
and
pose
a
appreciable
risk
to
Public.
Safety
workers
should
be
given
individualized
consideration.
They
should
not
be
denied
automatically
because
of
Any
conviction.
K
Their
particular
criminal
conduct
should
be
looked
at
as
unique
conduct
and
their
circumstances
before
and
since
should
be
considered
as
as
unique
and,
finally
that
the
any
disqualifications
should
be
transparent
and
consistently
applied,
and
the
state
of
Kentucky
has
actually
gone
really
far
to
implement
a
lot
of
these
things.
So
I
mentioned
chapter
335b
earlier
that
was
put
into
law
largely
in
2017,
and
it
does
a
lot
of
or
incorporates
a
lot
of
the
best
practices
that
we
talk
about,
that
we
see
in
other
states.
K
So
it
does
require
a
direct
relationship
between
an
offense
to
the
licensed
activity.
It
does
require
individualized
consideration
and
it
provides
some
additional
procedural
protections
and
puts
a
limit
on
disqualifications,
based
on
vague
terms
like
good
moral
character.
So
the
question
is:
where
can
Kentucky
go?
What
what's
still
out
there?
K
That
could
be
really
impactful
that
could
increase
access
while
continuing
to
maintain
Public,
Safety
and
based
on
our
analysis,
when
we
look
at
Kentucky
the
big
one
really
seems
to
be
this
pre-application
determination
process
and
what
that
is,
and
there's
a
separate
sheet
with
your
materials
that
goes
over
this
in
some,
some
depth
is
really
taking
that
risk
reward
calculus
that
I
mentioned
early
earlier
and
flipping
it
around
right.
K
So,
instead
of
having
to
invest
time
and
money
up
front
for
a
license
that
you
don't
know
you
can
get
due
to
your
criminal
history,
it
allows
you
to
ask
a
licensing
board
to
make
that
determination
before
you
make
that
investment
right
so
in
in
many
states,
you
can
now
at
any
time
before
you
enroll
in
an
educational
program,
submit
a
formal
request
to
a
licensing
board
say
this.
K
Is
my
criminal
history
submit
any
other
relevant
information
that
you
may
have
and
say
you
know
all
things
being
as
they
are
now
if
I
applied
for
licensure
would
I
be
disqualified?
If
that's
a
yes,
you
make
that
investment,
and
you
get
your
license.
If
it's
a
no
generally,
you
can
go
back
to
the
board
at
a
later
date.
Perhaps
after
you've
received
treatment
or
Rehabilitation
anything
like
that
or
you
can
still,
you
know,
decide
to
take
that
risk
and
apply
for
licensure.
K
So
it's
it's
not
locking
people
out
of
the
system,
but
for
people
who
would
apply
it
creates
a
Gateway
or
pardon
me
for
people
who
would
be
approved.
It
creates
a
Gateway
for
them
to
get
in
to
the
system
and
ultimately
into
these
jobs,
and
this
is
something
that's
been
really
successful
in
a
lot
of
States.
K
So
20
have
now
fully
implemented
these
sorts
of
procedures
and
authorizations
in
law,
and
I
should
note
that,
although
this
is
something
that
could
be
done
at
the
regulatory
level,
when
we
talk
to
States,
it's
very
important,
they
find
especially
to
Regulators
to
have
statutory
statutory
Authority
to
make
these
kinds
of
determinations
because
they
do
not
want
to
be
caught
in
a
position
where
they
make
an
informal
determination
for
somebody
and
then
have
to
be
held
to
that
later
on,
without
any
sort
of
statutory
authority
to
to
back
that
up,
two
states
here
partially
implemented
it
Nevada
and
Kansas
the
the
reason
we
say
that
partially
implemented.
K
The
policy
is
because
those
decisions
are
not
binding
upon
the
licensing
boards
and
since
those
decisions
are
not
binding,
they
don't
necessarily
mitigate
much
of
that
risk
that
these
policies
are
meant
to
alleviate.
K
This.
Is
this
chart's
a
little
outdated
since
this
last
session,
Kentucky
I'm,
sorry,
Connecticut,
Delaware,
Los,
Angeles,
Oklahoma
and
Wyoming
have
all
joined
these
other
states
in
implementing
pre-qualification
procedures
real
quickly.
I'll
just
talk
about
a
few
other
of
these
major
best
practices
that
are
that
are
missing.
K
One
is
broadly
limiting
consideration
of
older
convictions.
A
lot
of
States
have
done
what
or
made
decisions
policy
decisions
consistent
with
data
that
shows
that
the
risk
of
re-offense
for
person
drops
dramatically
after
just
a
number
of
years,
often
in
four
years,
without
Justice
involvement,
the
reoffence
rate
of
a
person
who's
been
convicted
of
a
crime
goes
down
to
that
of
someone
who
has
never
been
convicted
of
a
crime.
So
a
lot
of
states
have
put
hard
time
limits
on
the
age
of
convictions
that
licensing
boards
can
consider.
K
You
can
see
in
this
map.
11
have
done
that
fully.
Eight
have
done
that
partially
and
and
those
eight
partial
States
generally
create
limits
only
for
time
limits
only
for
certain
types
of
convictions,
lower
level
offenses
or
create
a
presumption
of
Fitness
after
a
certain
amount
of
time.
K
Similarly,
a
lot
of
states
have
said
you
know
there
are
certain
low-level
offenses
that
should
never
or
will
never
create
a
public
safety
concern
in
the
context
of
licensed
work,
so
they've
broadly
prohibited
licensing
boards
from
considering
them.
These
are
often
things
like
non-violent
misdemeanors,
for
example,
or
all
misdemeanors
in
some
states,
and
you
can
see
here
that
nine
states
have
fully
implemented
that
and
three
states
have
partially
implemented
those
policies.
K
A
few
other
things
lacking
in
Kentucky
briefly,
and
then
I
I'd
love
to
answer
any
questions
you
may
have
one
is
that
Kentucky
law
does
not
explicitly
prohibit
the
consideration
of
certain
dispositions
that,
as
a
matter
of
public
policy,
should
not
be
related
to
legitimate
public
safety
concerns.
So
those
include
arrests
that
were
not
followed
by
conviction.
17
States
now
explicitly
prohibit
that
juvenile
adjudications
Nine
States
now
prohibit
that,
and
then
consideration
of
expunged,
sealed
and
pardoned
convictions
and
27
States.
K
It's
just
not
in
the
statute,
and
it's
not
clear
often
to
people
who
are
applying
for
licensure
or
interested
in
pursuing
licensure
and
you'll,
see
kind
of
a
running
theme
through
all
of
this,
which
is
the
more
information
that
we
can
provide
to
people
with
criminal
histories
who
are
interested
in
licensed
work,
the
more
the
confidence
we
can
give
them
to
pursue
that
work
and
to
pursue
those
opportunities
and
to
ultimately
get
those
good
paying
jobs
that
keep
everyone
safer,
that
allow
employers
a
bigger
pool
that
that
contribute
to
the
economy
over
time,
and
so
this
last
one
is
really
increasing.
K
Transparency
or
pardon
me
second,
to
last
one
in
the
application
process.
There
are
a
number
of
states
that
by
Statute
require
licensing
bodies
to
just
publish
accessible
information
for
applicants
online
about
how
criminal
history
is
considered.
K
Finally,
one
thing
I
I
just
have
to
add
is
that
I
mentioned
Kentucky
does
require
individualized
consideration
of
applicants.
The
nature
of
the
crime
has
to
be
considered
time
since
conviction
and
its
relationship
to
the
duties
of
the
job.
One
thing
that
is
missing,
conspicuously
absent
compared
to
what
we
see
in
other
states,
is
a
requirement
that
evidence
of
Rehabilitation
be
considered
I.
K
Think
as
a
matter
of
course,
that's
likely
happening
at
the
board
level,
but
putting
it
in
statute
front
and
center
really
allows
people
who
have
criminal
histories
an
opportunity
to
gather
that
information
to
focus
on
that
information
where
it
is
relevant.
K
K
If
you're
interested
in
some
of
those
broader
policies,
I
encourage
you
to
look
at
the
fair
chance
licensing
project
at
that
handout,
but
I'd
love
to
answer
any
questions.
You'll
have
and
thank
you
again
thank.
A
You
Josh
I
I,
appreciate
you
bringing
that
presentation
to
us.
First
of
all,
if
you
could
send
us
that
PowerPoint,
so
we
can
have
it
for
our
records
and
put
it
on
our
our
website
as
a
resource
for
for
everybody.
For
our
meetings-
and
you
know
two
of
the
things
that
came
to
my
mind
when
I
sat
through
that
presentation
was
that
they
can
assist
us
with
two
issues
that
we
have.
One
is
our
Workforce
issues,
small
piece
of
the
puzzle
to
help
fix
that
as
well.
A
As
you
know,
I've
been
here
16
years,
we've
passed
several
bills
that
we're
going
to
fix
our
growing
incarceration
incarceration
problem
and
I'm,
not
saying
they
weren't
effective,
and
they
certainly
had
plenty
of
data
to
say
that
they
were
going
to
work
but
I.
We
still
have
overflowing
prisons
and
plenty
of
people
that,
if
we
had
space,
would
not
be
out
on
parole
but
would
be
in
prison.
A
So
if
we
can
get
people
back
to
work
and
keep
them
from
returning
back
into
that
cycle,
that
would
be
I,
think
very
beneficial
and
one
thing
I
want
to
point
out
or
I
guess:
Ask
Josh
just
pointed
out
to
me
by
Senator
Thomas
that,
if
we're
going
to
you
know,
talk
about
a
bill
to
get
basically
pre-approval,
it's
important
to
note
that
you
know
if
you
go
through
the
process
and
you
go
through
the
training
that
you
not
have
any
other
issues
in
between
those
two.
K
That's
right
and
that's
a
a
common
feature
of
all
of
these
laws
and
I
think
that
additional
little
memo
about
pre-qualification
will
speak
to
that
almost
universally.
The
states
say
you
know
this
decision
is
binding
insofar
as
either
your
criminal
history
does
not
change
between
the
time
you
got
the
decision
and
when
you
apply
for
licensure
or
the
criminal
history
that
we
reviewed
or
that
you
submitted
was
incomplete
and
we,
you
know
which
would
be
found
out.
What's
a
full
background
check,
investigation
is
done
at
the
time
of
Leicester
or
the
time
of
application.
K
B
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
want
to
I
have
a
little
different
point
of
view
than
my
co-chair
and
I
want
to
express
it,
because
I
too
sat
on
the
council
state
government
re-entry
commission
and
was
very
disappointed
with
their
work.
First
of
all,
as
the
chairman
said,
we
have
had
lots
of
bills
to
reduce
our
prison
population
and
increase
our
make
our
Workforce
better
and
for
the
most
part
they
have
not
worked,
and
this
will
not
work
either.
B
The
truck
the
Crux
of
the
matter
of
this
kind
of
legislation
is
this:
who
has
the
authority
to
regulate
professions?
The
very
definition
of
a
PR
of
a
profession?
Is
they
set
their
own
standards
and
what
we
are
saying
is
no
profession,
we
know
better,
we
will
set
standards
for
you
and
this
argument.
I
reject
I,
rejected
it
on
the
commission
and
I
reject
it
now.
The
other
thing
I
reject
is
the
standard
is
Public
Safety.
It
may
be
Public
Safety,
but
it's
not
always
Public
Safety.
B
I
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
and,
and
thank
you
very
much
for
your
your
presentation.
I
I
thought
that
this
was
very
well
thought
out.
I
actually
passed
a
bill
in
2021
called
certification
of
employability
for
incarcerated
individuals.
That
really
sets
folks
on
on
the
right
path.
It
you
know
it
gives
it
gives
it's
just
moving
in
the
right.
You
know
given
giving
these
individuals
the
ability
to
move
forward
and
get
the
training
that
they
need.
I
I,
don't
know
that
I
really
heard
you
say
that
this
is
necessarily
taking
the
place
of
a
licensure
board
in
making
the
decision,
it
seems
to
me
that
you
are
working
toward
a
pre-application
determination
which
would
help
an
individual
understand
what
their,
what
the
likelihood
of
their
being
licensed,
is
and
kind
of
you
know
just
moving
them
in
the
right
direction.
Is
that
what
I
heard
you
say?
I'm
I'm
after
the
last
comments,
I'm
a
little
confused.
K
I
I
think
that's
right.
If
I
understand
you
correctly
and
I
I
should
clarify
this.
This
pre-application
process
is
procedural
in
nature.
It
takes
a
determination
that
happens
at
a
later
point
in
time
and
moves
it
up
to
an
earlier
point
in
time.
The
standards
that
are
used
to
determine
you
know
whether
a
board
says
yes
or
no
would
not
be
any
different.
They
would
apply
and
they
would
be.
You
know
consistent
with
current
Kentucky
law.
K
I
Absolutely
that's
exactly
what
I
was
asking
because
I
you
know,
I
think
that
we
are
making
strides
in
having
passed:
Senate,
Bill,
120
and
House
Bill
497,
the
certification
of
employability
and
using
some
of
these
qualifiers
to
move
individuals
toward
licensure,
which
would
be
more
tangible,
able
and
binding
for
for
those
individuals
who
are
seeking
employment
and
seeking
to
stay
out
of
the
criminal
justice
system
and
I.
I
A
Thank
you
all
right.
Seeing
no
other
questions.
Thank
you,
Josh
for
the
presentation.
Thank
you.
Everyone
for
your
attention.
We've
come
to
the
end
of
the
agenda.
The
next
meeting
is
October.
27Th
I
feel
pretty
certain
about
that,
so
rock
that
down
and
if
changes
will
let
you
know
and
with
that
we
stand
adjourned.
Thank
you.