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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Licensing, Occupations, and Administrative Regulations (8-24-22)
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A
Committee
on
licensing
and
occupations
welcome
everyone.
I
want
to
apologize
to
everyone
for
the
time
change.
I
hope
it
didn't
inconvenience
anyone.
I
especially
want
to
apologize
to
senator
mike
wilson
and
his
constituents
who
there
was
confusion
about
some
confusion
about
the
time
of
the
meeting,
and
they
got
here
an
hour
early.
I
apologize
to
you
senator
to
your
constituents
on
behalf
of
the
committee
for
that
oversight.
A
I
did
bring
in
some
fresh
tomatoes
from
the
garden
and
their
right
to
senator
wilson's
right
in
that
basket.
Feel
free,
they've
been
kind
of
picked
over
a
little
bit
by
leadership
already
this
morning
about
that.
A
But
there's
I
want
to
tell
you
the
small,
the
small
ones
actually
have
better
flavor,
so
there's
a
bunch
of
them
in
there
help
yourself
on
the
way
out.
Do
we
have
any
introductions.
A
We
have
a
packed
agenda.
We
we're
gonna,
have
a
hard
stop,
but
probably
12
30.,
no,
no,
no!
No!
No
yeah!
I
saw
that.
I'm
sorry
11
30.,
yeah
yeah
leader
thayer,
almost
jumped
out
of
his
chair
there.
C
A
A
We
have
a
motion
by
co-chair
in
a
second
all,
those
in
favor
use
the
voting
sign
of
eye.
Anyone
opposed
like
sign.
Let
the
record
reflect
that
the
minute
the
minutes
from
the
previous
meeting
have
been
approved
at
this
time.
I'd
like
to
call
forward
senator
mike
wilson,
ranked
or
yeah
rank
has
its
privileges
or
leadership,
says
in
this
committee
and
again
I
want
to
apologize
you
for
the
confusion
on
the
time
senator
you
can
ask
your
guests
that
are
going
to
testify
to
come
forward
and
welcome
to
this
committee.
A
This
is
some
important
testimony
about
our
small
farm
wineries
and
I'm
glad
to
see
you
all
here
today.
Small
farm
wineries
is
an
area.
I
think
that
we
need
to
do
a
little
work
in
this
state.
So
it's
great
to
see
you
all
welcome,
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
proceed
with
your
testimony.
G
Mr
chairman,
thank
you
so
much
for
the
opportunity
to
present
and
you
should
itch
one
of
the
members
and
I
appreciate
y'all
hearing
this
today-
should
have
a
copy
of
the
bill
request
in
your
folder
that
bryce
provided
to
you
and
basically.
G
The
gentleman
to
my
right
immediately
has
become
a
good
friend
of
mine.
Not
only
is
he
a
marine
which
we
share
together,
but
he
has
a
winery
in
my
district,
which
I
didn't
know
about
and
all
sudden
I
get
an
email
and
I'm
invited
to
be
a
judge
at
a
barbecue
cook-off,
and
so
I
decided
okay.
Well,
you
know
this
thing
can't
be
that
bad.
G
You
know
I
decided
to
go
to
it,
and
I
mean
there
were
people
everywhere
this
out
in
the
sticks
really
where
you're
at,
and
it
was
really
something
I
think
by
the
time
I
left
there
had
to
roll
out
of
there.
I'd
eaten
so
much
barbecue,
but
it
was.
It
was
a
great
event.
Of
course
they
have
the
event
coming
up
this
year
and
it
actually
benefits
returning
after
war
veterans.
Is
that
right
make
sure
I
got
that
correct,
reuniting.
G
After
war-
and
this
is
a
feeder
to
the
national
barbecue
cook-off,
that
is
sponsored
by
jack
daniels
if
that's
correct
as
well,
and
so
it's
a
pretty
big
deal
for
a
small
winery
small
farm
winery
to
host
something
like
that,
and
so
I've
discussed
with
you,
mr
chairman,
that
what
they're
looking
for
and
I'm
going
to,
let
derek
go
ahead
and
describe
that
in
his
remarks
to
the
committee
today
and
then
we'll
have
be
prepared
for
questions.
If
you
have
any.
D
Mr
chairman,
senators
and
representatives,
I
appreciate
you
and
on
behalf
of
the
kentucky
wineries
association,
thank
you
for
for
hearing
us
today.
D
The
kwa
represents
75
small
farm
wineries
across
42
counties
in
our
state,
the
largest
challenge
to
our
industry
and
thus
to
all
small
small
farm
winery
license
holders
is
that
of
representation
in
our
local
restaurants
and
retailers,
because
we
are
farmers.
First,
the
majority
of
small
farm
wineries
are
located
in
very
rural
areas.
D
A
A
Okay,
the
yeah
come
on
forward
there,
sir,
have
a
seat,
have
a
seat
on
the
front
row,
you're
not
going
to
testify
just
yet,
but
do
you
all
have
any
more
testimony?
Let's
do
questions?
Well,
I
think
let's
have
charles
george.
H
H
We've
talked
about
this
topic
happening
in
in
november
and
and
him
his
organization
kind
of
talking
to
this.
So
it's
it's
whether
you'd
like
for
it
to
the
two
of
you,
whether
you
want
to
do
it
now
or
in
november
I'd
say.
A
I
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
the
the
part
about
notifying
the
distributor
of
any
distribution.
Any
self-distribution
is
two
two
things
number
one
why
and
secondly,
what.
D
Representative
president,
if
a
if
a
small
farm
winery
already
has
an
existing
relationship
with
a
wholesaler
a
distributor,
it
would
be
expected
that
that
would
continue
as
long
as
they
have
that
relationship.
D
If
a
small
farm
winery
a
license
holder
does
not
have
a
relationship
with
a
wholesaler
which
most
do
not,
then
they
would
be
reporting
directly
to
the
abc.
Instead
of
to
that
wholesaler.
I
Yeah
but
the
way
it's
written
it
looks
like
you
can
sell
up
to
30,
000
gallons
directly
to
a
resale,
a
retail
license
holder
as
long
as
one
they're,
not
otherwise
registered
and
two
you
notify
the
wholesaler,
so
it
seems
to
be
a
mandatory
requirement.
I
don't
know
which
wholesaler
you're
going
to
have
to
notify
I'd.
Look
at
maybe
tweaking
that
a
little
bit
the
next
question.
I
only
bring
this
up
because
it
came
up
when
we
were
doing
direct
ship
on
alcohol
appreciate.
I
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Sorry,
sir,
I
had
one
follow-up
question.
If
I
may
is,
is
what
are
you
going
to
have
to
tell
the
distributor?
Do
you
have
to
give
up
the
volume?
Do
you
have
to
tell
the
product
you
have
to
tell
the
price
and
which
leads
me
back
to
the
ultimate
question
of?
Why
are
we
bothering,
with
the
distributor
anyhow
they're
not
involved
in
this
particular
transaction?
You
may
have
a
contract.
I
G
No,
no
sir,
I
don't
believe
we
have
any
more
testimony.
I
have
noted
what
representative
mccoy
said
and
we
will
discuss
that
and
see
how
we
can
tweak
that.
A
Very
well
and
mr
george,
since
you
are
on
the
agenda
for
november,
or
defer
your
testimony
to
november.
A
We
have
christopher's
law
next
on
the
agenda
and
I
want
to
just
point
out
right
away
that
I
am
not
a
fan
of
naming
legislation
after
people,
but
we'll
take
that
up
later
on,
but
leader
mcgarvey.
A
J
J
They
are
in
the
overwhelming
majority
of
states,
and
it
provides
a
safe
middle
option
for
mothers
to
have
their
babies
that
someone
want
to
have
at
home.
Some
of
them
want
to
have
in
hospitals
and
representative
herron.
You
and
I
know
a
lot
of
people
in
louisville
who
just
track
that
15
seconds
over
the
bridge
and
use
the
birthing
centers
in
indiana.
So
we
would
like
to
make
that
available
to
kentucky
moms
to
have
their
babies
here
in
kentucky
in
a
birthing
center.
J
A
Want
to
answer,
I
want
to
welcome
this
group
here.
I've
dealt
with
them
a
lot
over
the
years
and
it's
always
been
a
joy.
Well
actually
one
of
my
favorite
topics
and
that,
and
so
welcome-
and
it's
great
to
have
the
little
ones
here
too
today
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
proceed
with
your
testimony.
L
Jennifer
hawkins,
with
the
kentucky
birth
coalition.
K
Okay,
thank
you
for
hearing
us
today.
So
just
as
I
just
mentioned
in
my
introduction,
I'm
a
kentucky
licensed
aprn
and
nurse
midwife.
I
have
a
home
birth
practice
on
the
kentucky
tennessee
border
serving
several
counties
and
I'm
also
nationally
involved
with
the
american
association
of
birth
centers
and
the
cabc,
which
is
the
accrediting
organization
for
birth
centers.
K
K
K
K
We
provide
risk
screening,
that's
actually
a
key
component
of
birth
center
care
throughout
the
pregnancy,
labor
and
birth,
to
ensure
that
each
patient
is
a
appropriate
birth
center
candidate
and
so
there's
multiple
studies
that
show
that
birth
center
care
is
safe,
cost
and
leads
to
good
outcomes
when
the
care
is
provided
according
to
the
american
association
of
birth
center
standards
that
I
previously
mentioned,
and
so
birth
centers
were
actually
one
of
the
enhanced
care
models
that
was
studied
in
the
strong
start
for
mothers
and
newborns
initiative.
K
That
was
sponsored
by
the
center
for
medicaid
and
medicare
in
2013..
It
was
a
four-year
study
and
it
showed
a
reduction
in
pre-term
birth
rate,
low
birth
weight
c-sections,
and
it
was
estimated
that
birth
center
care
saves
medicaid,
19
million
dollars
per
10
000
births
just
from
the
facility
payments
for
c-sections
prevented.
K
A
L
Good
morning
my
name
is
again
jennifer
hawkins.
I
live
in
rural
me
county,
which
is
about
an
hour
southwest
of
louisville.
I
am
a
mother
of
three
and
I
am
currently
due
with
my
fourth
in
october,
I
plan
to
deliver
at
the
tree
of
life
birth
center
located
in
indiana,
which
is
directly
across
the
river
from
louisville.
L
L
This
allowed
me
to
better
relax
and
focus
on
my
labor
for
pain
management
and
the
natural
progression
of
labor.
My
third
child
I
had
with
a
group
of
midwives,
but
this
time
in
a
hospital
setting
due
to
my
previous
midwife
retiring
and
no
other
midwives
cover
me
county
homebirths
again,
I
was
able
to
deliver
naturally
without
any
medication
or
major
complications,
but
was
still
lacking
the
natural
and
comfortable
environment
that
I
desired.
L
So
therefore,
with
this
delivery,
I
am
choosing
to
forego
the
option
of
the
most
convenient
and
nearest
hospital
to
me
located
in
kentucky.
I
will
be
traveling
over
an
hour
across
the
state
line
and
passed
two
other
hospitals
to
deliver
at
a
birth
center
in
jeffersonville
indiana.
I
have
chosen
this
so
that
I
can
labor
in
the
most
effective
way
possible
in
a
natural
and
comfortable
environment.
L
L
M
I
would
also
like
to
highlight
the
importance
of
me
being
here,
because
black
women
need
to
be
included
in
every
single
conversation
about
birth
and
any
initiatives
there
are
being
put
in
place
to
make
birthing
equity
more
accessible
as
a
current
midwifery
student,
having
the
opportunity
to
have
a
birth
center
in
the
community
that
I
will
serve
will
be
monumental
there,
the
more
and
more
black
women
and
women
of
color
learn
about
the
climbing
rate
of
maternal
deaths
that
plagues
our
community.
The
more
and
more
we
are
searching
for
alternatives
to
birth,
our
babies.
M
There
are
so
many
barriers
around
home
births
from
women
who
look
just
like
me.
Having
a
birth
center
right
across
the
bridge
in
indiana
isn't
obtainable
for
most
because
they
do
not
accept
kentucky
medicaid
birthing
in
their
own
homes
may
not
be
ideal
because
their
home
setting
isn't
one
that
will
foster
a
fitting
setting
to
bring
forth
new
life.
Choosing
where
you
give
birth
should
be
a
right
that
every
birthing
person
has
the
opportunity
to
exercise
whether
that
choice
be
a
birthing
center
at
home
or
in
a
hospital.
M
B
And
then,
finally,
I
am
the
executive
director
at
hopes
embrace
we
work
with
about
85
to
90
medicaid
population,
and
we
have
tried
to
open
a
birth
center
through
various
avenues
and
we've
met
with,
like
attorneys
about
certificate
of
need.
We've
talked
to
mortgage
brokers,
we've
talked
to
realtors
and
it's
kind
of
all
this
chicken
and
egg
situation
of
you
can't
do
this
before
you
do
that.
But
you
can't
do
this
until
you
also
do
that
and
so
just
kind
of
getting
rid
of
that
barrier
to
open
a
birth
center
for
low
income.
A
It's
a
good
presentation.
I
have
a
few
comments.
I've
met
with
several
groups
in
my
district
on
this
topic
and
I
support
this
legislation.
I
just
want
to
say
that
right
up
front-
and
I
is
there
anyone
here
from
the
kentucky
medical
association
or
the
kentucky
hospital
association.
A
Okay,
good
come
on
up
here,
the
I
want
to
tell
them
both
those
organizations
that,
if
they
have
concerns
about
this
legislation,
because
I
know
they
have
in
the
past-
let's
get
it
out
before
session.
N
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
We
had
not
signed
up
to
necessarily
speak
in
fact
we're
open
to
hearing
more
about
this
legislation.
We've
heard
comments
from
representative
nemes
in
the
past.
I
know
this
bill
has
been
introduced.
Of
course,
we
work
very
closely
with
the
specialty
society
who's
most
directly
impacted
by
this,
which
would
be
our
ob
gyns.
N
Would
there
be
a
medical
director
of
the
birthing
center
and,
if
so,
who
would
be
eligible
to
be
the
medical
director?
Of
course,
we
would
prefer
that
be
a
board
certified
ob,
gyn
and
and
in
all
honesty,
I'm
not
sure
what
those
standards
say
about
that.
So
we
just
had
some
questions
that
we,
I'm
sure
can
be
answered
along
those
lines.
Okay,.
A
Thank
you
first,
could
you
identify
yourselves
for
the
record?
We
all
know
you.
A
You
opened
up
the
floodgates
there
with
your
comments
and
I
think
the
reason
you
opened
up
the
floodgates
with
your
comments,
at
least
in
my
mind,
is-
is
that
again,
let's
make
sure
that
we
have
thorough
discussion
long
before
we
go
into
session
because
what's
been,
the
history
of
this
is
we're
getting
the
sketch
session
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
the
sky's
falling
and-
and
so,
let's
make
sure
we
have
thorough
discussion
long
before
we
get
into
session.
With
that
representative
miller.
E
K
So,
as
I
mentioned,
the
center
for
medicare
aid
and
medicare
did
a
four-year
study
showing
that
birth
centers
did
reduce
cost.
The
initial
cost
evaluation
was
around
the
reduction
in
facility
fees
specifically
related
to
the
reduction
in
the
c-section
rate.
K
However,
there
are
additional
reductions
in
costs,
because
birth
centers
when
they
take
care
of
low-risk
women,
are
also
offering
early
discharge,
rather
than
the
typical
two
to
three
day
hospital
stay,
and
so
there
are
also
a
reduction
in
costs
with
that
as
well.
So
the
19
million
for
per
10
000
births
was
specifically
related
to
the
facility
payment,
but
the
reduction
in
things
like
preterm,
birth
and
low
birth
weight
also
reduces
nicu
stays,
which
is
a
major
cost
factor
for
for
births
as
well.
J
I
want
to
note
it
also
would
save
the
kentucky
taxpayer
money,
because
the
woman
who
wants
to
have
her
birth
in
indiana,
but
she
can't
pay
for
it
or
she
either
has
to
pay
for
out
of
pocket
or
she
that's
not
an
option
for
her,
as,
as
I
think,
miss
bryant
testified.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Well
corey
answered
one
of
my
questions,
which
was:
could
this
model
help
with
our
ob
gyn
provider
shortage
in
the
state,
and
I
I'm
really
happy
to
hear
his
quick
testimony.
C
My
question
is:
I've
done
a
lot
of
work
with
pregnant
women
who
are
suffering
from
substance,
use,
disorder
and
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
I
understand
that
this
model
of
a
birthing
center
is
really
beneficial
to
those
women
who
are
in
recovery
from
substance
use
disorder.
Am
I
correct
in
that
thinking.
K
Yes,
thank
you
for
bringing
that
up.
That's
a
really
important
topic,
someone
with
active
substance
use
disorder
would
not
be
a
candidate
for
birth
center
care,
but
someone
who's
recovered
or
no
longer
using
would
be
a
good
candidate
and
the
great
thing
about
birth
centers
is
because
they're
not
offering
narcotic
pain
management
during
the
delivery,
then
you're
reducing
your
risk
for
for
re-exposure
or
becoming
addicted
again
and
so.
Birth
centers
are
a
great
model
for
people
who
are
wanting
to
avoid
interventions
that
are
going
to
increase
their
likelihood
of
becoming
addicted.
A
Representative
flannery
and
then
representative
banta
will
be
after
that.
A
F
The
I'll
ask
representative
nemes,
the
first
question
are:
are
these
facilities
staffed
by
midwives
only
or
is.
B
J
J
I
think
the
best
person
to
answer
that
question
is
is
that
the
is
at
the
end
of
the
table
and
I'll
ask
her
to
supplement,
but
well
in
the
states
that
have
them
there's
a
variety
of
ways
to
do
it,
and
I
want
to
the
one
thing
I
want
to
impress
upon
the
committee
is
we're
not
inventing
the
wheel
here.
There
are
well
over
40
states
that
have
already
do
this
and
they
do
this
very
safely.
You
want
to
answer
the
question
directly.
K
Yes,
that's
correct
and
so
birth
centers
across
the
nation
have
a
variety
of
staffing
models.
They
are
in
the
midwifery
model
of
care,
in
the
sense
that
they're
offering
informed
consent
and
discussion
with
their
clientele.
K
But
there
are
midwives,
there
are
obs,
there
are
nurses,
there
are
birth
assistants,
there
are
many
different
types
of
providers
in
the
birth
setting
and
so
the
model
of
care
it
does
not
exclude
ob
care
and
so
obs
can
own
birth.
Centers
hospitals
can
own
birth
centers
if
they
so
desire.
F
K
F
My
concern
on
that
would
be
that
things
unexpected
could
happen
in
delivery
when
you
have
a
a
woman
in
in
delivery,
and
I
just
would
want
to
be
sure
for
protection
of
the
patient
that
there's
adequate
specialists
on
site.
Second
question
is
for
representative
nevis.
I
think
he
could
probably
address
this
one
there,
starting
on
paragraph
number.
Four
addresses
liability.
F
J
Well,
it's,
I
don't
think
we're
intending
to
change
the
the
opportunity,
the
ability.
Thank
you.
I
didn't
have
it
in
front
of
me.
I
do
now.
I
know
that's
something.
That's
important
to
you,
it's
important
to
me
as
well
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
having
tort
reform
in
various
places
and
so
to
speak.
I
I
don't
know
if
we
have
time
to
read
it
now,
I'm
getting
ready
to
get
pushed
by
the
chair,
but
I'll
answer
that
question
offline.
If
I
might
that'd.
A
Okay,
we're
we're
doing
pretty
good
on
time
and
I'm
happy
representative
vanta
has
taken
herself
off
the
list.
You're
always
allowed
to
do
that.
I
might
point
out
to
the
members.
Take
yourself
off
the
list.
There's
no
problem
with
that
at
all.
So
the
next
is
representative
mosher.
O
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
to
all
of
you
for
coming
in
talking
to
us
about
this
today.
I've
had
lots
and
lots
of
meetings
about
this.
We've
really
tried
to
dig
into
any
any
issues
that
are
are
really
problematic,
and
I
appreciate
all
of
the
work
that
you
all
have
done
to
to
address
any
of
those
concerns.
O
I
don't.
I
haven't
read
the
most
current
iteration
of
this
bill.
We
just
got
it
so
I
will,
but
what
sorts
of
transfer
agreements
do
you
see
in
in
the
model
that
you're
proposing.
A
O
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
very
much.
We
we
had
some
good
meetings
last
year
or
last
something
I
don't.
O
Been
talking
about
this
for
a
while
with
vanderbilt,
and
I
I
like
their
their
agreement-
they're
they're
very
closely
linked.
You
know
it
provides
women
and
families
an
alternative
to
giving
birth
in
the
hospital,
but
there's
still
a
strong
connection
for
safety
reasons,
and
that's
really
important
to
me.
I
I
think
that
is
that
may
even
outweigh
you
know
the
the
comfort
of
the
woman.
I
you
know
I
I've
given
birth
five
times.
You
know.
O
I
understand
why
it's
important,
but
I
also
really
understand
unforeseen
problems
that
come
up
and
they
come
up
quickly,
and
so
you
know
there's
a
you
know
a
good
reason
to
have
that
strong
connection
to
the
hospitals,
and
we
have
done
a
lot
of
work
with
you
all
the
lay
midwives
on
creating
standards
and
certifications,
and
I
think
that
you
know
this
is
a
direction
that
we
need
to
continue
as
we're
talking
about
this.
O
A
I
think
to
now
be
a
good
time
to
add
that
I,
if
you
haven't
been
to
already
already,
I
think
you
you
should
request
an
interim
hearing
with
in
front
of
the
health
and
welfare
committee,
because
I
think
that
would
be
a
good
thing
to
do.
J
Chairman,
if
I
could
just
really
quickly,
I
would
note
I'm
not
a
birthing
person,
no
matter
how
much
I
might
want
to
be
in
the
future.
I
can't
I'm
not.
C
J
Never
you've
given
five
baby,
five
deliveries,
I
haven't
and
never
will,
but
I
understand
how
important
safety
is.
Obviously
the
the
national
accreditation
standards
address
that
that
issue,
but
I
would
also
note
that
this
is
you.
You
were
leader
in
the
home
birthing
situation
a
few
years
ago,
where
we
expanded
access
there.
This
is
safer
than
that
which
is
designed
to
be
middle
ground,
and
I
would
also.
J
I
I
think
I
think
I
think
the
emergency.
I
don't
remember
what
imtala
stands
for
in
my
legal
world,
we
just
say
I'm
tala.
I
think
that
already
has
some
some
standards
put
in
there,
but
but
the
national
accreditation
standards
on
birthing
centers
do
apply.
K
Yes,
and
so
now,
that
kentucky
has
recently
licensed
certified
professional
midwives.
K
Kentucky
itself
is
also
gathering
statistics
on
outcomes
on
an
annual
basis,
and
that
is
one
of
the
requirements
for
licensure,
and
so
the
the
state
does
have
those
outcomes,
because
one
of
the
difficulties
in
the
past
has
been
tracking
through
birth
certificate
data,
which
is
less
helpful
because
someone
could
have
a
birth
outside
the
hospital
by
accident
and
get
lumped
into
the
home
birth
and
so
by
tracking
it
through
the
licensure
through
the
state
they're
able
to
look
at
those
at
those
data,
however,
licensed
professional
midwifery
is
new
in
kentucky
in
the
last
two
years.
K
K
A
Great
representative,
mccoy.
I
J
So
the
law
kentucky
law
has
it
in
the
on
the
books,
the
c-o-n
application
has
been
very
cumbersome
and
there's
only
one
application
that
has
been
applied
for,
and
that
was
it
was
not
granted,
and
so
this
would
make
it
easier
to
become
a
a
birthing
center
in
kentucky
there
is,
there
is
a
law
on
the
books,
but
it
is
not
workable
and
in
it
so
no
one
applies
for
it,
because
it's
it's
so
unworkable.
B
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I've
been
here
long
enough
to
see
very
many
medical
professions
that
have
expanded
their
practices
under
the
guidance
of
the
kma
and
I'm
talking
about
pas
arnps
midwives
nurse
practitioners,
so
many
that
have
really
their
legislation
has
been
perfected.
Working
with
the
kma,
and
I
really
love
the
alliance.
You
have
formed
with
the
leaders
in
the
medical
profession
and
I
do
hope
to
see
this
bill
pass
in
2023..
A
We'll
conclude
with
that
great
testimony,
I
think
everyone's
excited
about
this,
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
A
Welcome
representative
cook
you're,
no
stranger
to
the
committee,
and
I
think
what
you
have
here
is
a
fairly
simple
item,
and
this
didn't
make
it
last
year
right,
and
this
is
a
re
redo.
Yes,
sir
yeah,
I
apologize
for
what
happened
last
year.
Hopefully
that
won't
happen
again
this
year.
P
P
Yes,
senator
schickel
has
mentioned.
We
did
have
house
bill
526
filed
last
session,
mostly
just
to
get
the
word
out.
We
know
lno
likes
to
have
everything
vetted
in
the
interim,
and
so
we
went
ahead
and
filed.
It
showed
everybody
what
we're
doing
kentucky
faces:
a
critical
shortage
of
professional
land
surveyors.
I
know
this
many
counties
such
as
bourbon
county.
We
have
exactly
zero
and
that's
counting
that
that's
creating
quite
the
backlog,
whether
you're
a
farmer
like
myself
and
you
need
some
land
surveying
done.
P
So
you
know
exactly
where
to
put
the
fence
line
in
or
whether
you're
looking
industrial
sites,
it's
obviously
extremely
important
for
what
goes
on.
It's
always
been
an
important
part,
no
matter
where
you
are
in
the
world
trying
to
get
something
done,
but
surveys
are
more
expensive
they're,
taking
much
longer
to
complete
complete
because
of
this
shortage.
P
Q
Mr
chairman,
I'd
just
say
that
the
the
shortage
of
surveyors
is
real,
as
we've
tried
to
grow
our
firm
over
the
last
five
years,
we've
discovered
that
the
pipeline
is
empty,
as
representative
cook
mentioned
in
bourbon
county,
where
20
000
people
reside
there
are
no
licensed.
Surveyors
same
is
true
in
fulton
county
and
senator
howell's,
district
larue
and
marion
counties
in
senator
higdon's,
district
and
owen
in
senator
hornbach's
district
in
crittenden,
edmondson,
gallatin,
hickman
and
nicholas
counties
all
areas
represented
by
members
of
this
committee.
Q
There
is
one
licensed
surveyor
in
each
of
those
counties
and
the
work
that
surveyors
do
in
case.
You're
not
familiar
is
essential
and
critical
to
any
land
development
purpose,
whether
it's
a
homeowner
who
wants
defense
in
her
backyard
to
keep
her
dog
safe
or
a
residential
real
estate
developer,
who
wants
to
increase,
affordable
housing
opportunities
or
industrial
development
and
economic
developers
across
the
state
who
are
seeking
to
take
advantage
of
the
product
development
initiative
that
you
all
passed
in
the
2022
session.
A
E
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
First
off
I'd
like
to
say
I
support
this
bill
and
I'd
like
to
see
it
passed,
but
I
do
have
a
question:
are
our
land
surveyors,
bonded
or
insured
in
case
like
they
make
a
mistake.
E
Yes,
they
are
so
if
they
switch
to
the
two-year
program,
would
they
still
be?
I
would
assume
they
would
still
have
to
be
bonded
or.
A
And
lastly,
we
have
number
four
on
the
agenda.
Our
friend
senate
leader,
morgan
mcgarvey,
is
here
he
was
scheduled
to
go
early
in
the
agenda,
but
with
the
time
change.
I
know
that
was
tough
on
your
schedule,
so
we
held
you
to
the
end
saved
the
best
to
last
and
anyone
that
is
included
in
this
testimony.
A
Please
come
forward,
as
I
said
before,
we
have
a
tradition
in
this
committee,
where
we
don't
testify
to
things
that
have
already
been
testified
to
it's
good,
to
see
you
all
here,
I'm
sorry,
you
had
to
wait,
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
proceed
with
your
testimony.
R
T
B
Lisa
wilner
representative
from
house
district
35.
R
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Given
the
rules
of
this
committee,
I
will
be
very
brief.
It's
an
honor
to
be
up
here
with
christopher
and
to
have
worked
with
him
and
with
so
many
legislators
from
both
chambers
and
from
both
parties.
This
has
been
a
bill
in
the
past
in
most
recently
in
house,
bill
207
and
senate
bill
367
and
with
no
further
ado
I'll
turn
it
over
to
to
nick
clark
to
explain
some
of
christopher's
law.
A
T
Thank
you
all
for
allowing
us
to
be
here
today
again.
My
name
is
nick
clark
and
I'm
speaking
today
to
address
an
issue
around
safety,
specifically
safety
in
our
bars
and
nightclubs.
T
My
husband,
christopher,
was
murdered
in
january
of
2020
by
bouncer
at
nowhere
bar
in
louisville.
This
bouncer
was
under
the
influence.
He
was
never
trained
to
be
a
bouncer.
He
has
a
history
of
domestic
violence
and
he
was
never
background.
Checked
by
the
bar
christopher
lie
on
a
cold
january.
Pavement
completely
unconscious.
No
one
attending
to
him.
T
T
T
The
packet
materials
that
were
presented,
christopher's
law
would
require
bouncers,
receive
training
developed
by
the
department
of
alcoholic
beverage,
control
on
de-escalation
tactics,
interpersonal
communication
threat
mitigation
and,
more
just
think,
when
your
child
or
loved
one
goes
to
a
bar.
Wouldn't
you
want
bar
staff
to
know
how
to
manage
crowd
control,
handle
a
bomb
or
active
shooter
or
talk
to
vulnerable
patrons
who
have
had
too
much
to
drink.
I'd
have
to
say
that's
a
no-brainer
christopher's
death
is
not
an
isolated
incident.
As
a
matter
of
fact,
bouncer
abuse
happens
more
often
than
you
might
think.
T
I've
personally
connected
and
met
with
a
couple
families
whose
sons
were
murdered
by
bouncers
who
had
no
experience
or
training.
In
august
2014,
michael
gatto
of
atlanta,
georgia
was
beaten
to
death
by
a
bouncer
outside
a
college
bar
and
his
family
successfully
passed
michael's
law
in
the
state
of
georgia
in
august
21
2021.
Just
last
year,
dallas
barrett
was
murdered
by
seven
bouncers
at
dirk's,
bentley,
whiskey,
road
bar
in
downtown
nashville
and
barrett's
family.
He
died
of
asphyxiation
and
all
seven
of
those
bouncers
were
indicted.
T
T
T
We
have
also
consulted
with
many
organizations
for
their
review,
support
and
endorsement
of
christopher's
law
of
the
organizations
we
have
worked
with
include
the
kentucky.
Let's
see
the
kentucky
restaurant
association,
the
kentucky
retail
federation,
the
aclu
kentucky
trial
lawyers
and
craft
brewers
association,
and
we
have
made
changes
to
satisfy
their
concerns.
T
We've
also
gotten
the
endorsement
of
the
kentucky
association
of
chiefs
of
police.
This
has
been
a
true
grassroots
effort.
No
lobbyist
support
or
marketing
firms
have
been
supporting
us.
This
is
an
effort
by
our
family
to
make
sure
nothing
like
what
happened
to
christopher
never
happens
to
someone
in
the
commonwealth
ever
again,
and
then
senator
yates
was
actually
supposed
to
speak
here
as
well,
because
of
the
special
session
called
unexpectedly.
He
had
to
finish
up
business
back
in
louisville.
T
T
T
A
Thank
you
for
your
testimony.
I
appreciate
you
working
with
the
committee.
I
believe
this
is
the
only
powerpoint.
That's
ever
been
allowed
in
this
committee
that
I've
chaired-
and
I
appreciate
you
you
working
with
me
on
that
and
you've
been
very,
very
patient
and
very
thorough.
Is
there
anything
else?
Do
we
have
any
yes
proceed,
introduce
yourself
and
proceed,
sir.
S
Yes,
first,
I
would
like
to
thank
senator
schickel
and
the
illinois
committee
for
giving
us
this
opportunity
to
at
this
hearing.
My
name
is
kenny
clark
and
I
come
before
you
today.
As
a
father,
I
have
two
children,
a
daughter,
sarah,
who
is
married
to
my
son-in-law
mark
and
nick
my
son,
who
was
married
to
my
son-in-law,
christopher
mckinney.
S
It
has
nothing
to
do
about
being
gay
and
everything
to
do
about
a
bouncer
that
has
been
drinking,
had
no
training
and
had
a
history
of
domestic
violence.
Christopher's
grieving
mother
and
father,
along
with
my
wife,
sit
behind
me
today
in
hopes
that
something
good
can
come
from
this
senseless
and
preventable
tragedy.
A
Thank
you
for
your
contact
and
concise
testament
and,
first
of
all,
I
just
want
to
extend
my
sincere
sympathy
on
behalf
of
myself
and
this
entire
committee
for
your
loss.
Thank
you.
I
I
can
only
imagine
the
pain
that
you're
going
through
this
is
very
recently.
I
didn't
realize
how
recent
it
is
and
you're
right
about.
You
know
I
too,
in
another
life
many
years
ago
worked
as
a
bouncer.
A
It
was
a
part-time
gig.
When
I
was
a
police
officer,
I
know
that's
hard
to
believe
representative
flannery,
but
the
and
you're
right
they
get
thrown
into
situations
very
dicey
situations
with
little
or
no
training.
You're.
Very
right
about
that.
Do
we
have
any
questions
from
the
committee.
R
It
to
wrap
it
up
a
little
bit
and
I
so
appreciate
the
diligent
work
of
nick
and
his
his
father
and
family
really
crafting
this
legislation
over
a
couple
of
years.
Taking
suggestions
from
everyone,
including
from
the
retailers
from
the
people
who
own
bars
and
restaurants,
getting
input
making
this
good
a
really
good
law
something.
This
committee
knows
I
used
to
serve
on
this
committee.
In
licensing
and
occupations.
R
There
is
far
more
regulation,
licensing
oversight
of
someone
who
is
giving
you
a
pedicure
of
someone
who
is
giving
you
or
cutting
your
hair.
Think
of
all
the
different
professions
that
come
in
front
of
this
committee
and
there's
nothing
related
to
bouncers,
I'm
a
little
bit
different
than
senator
schickel
and
senator
yates,
believe
it
or
not.
I've
never
served
as
a
bouncer.
R
Guess
we're
supposed
to
laugh
so
hard,
but
I
think
we
all
have
experience
in
going
somewhere
that
we've
seen
bouncers
or
we
know
of
bouncers,
and
we
know
what
they.
What
they're
asking
for
they're
asking
for
people
to
to
use
physical
force,
who
are
able
to
use
physical
force
on
patrons
in
areas
where
there
is
alcohol.
R
Yet
we
have
no
oversight
whatsoever
of
what
happens.
That
is
something
that
needs
to
change
and
it
is
something
this
committee
can
change
and
it
can
change
it
in
a
responsible
way
so
that
not
only
it
won't
bring
back
christopher,
but
it
will
keep
it
from
happening
in
the
future,
and
I
encourage
you
all.
I've
been
in
a
lot
of
these
committee
seats
and
I
know
not.
Everybody
looks
through
their
packets
flip
through
this
packet.
H
Thank
you.
I
I
appreciate
and
want
to
echo
the
condolences,
sincerest
condolences
on
your
loss
on
and
representative
wilner,
and
I
have
discussed
this
more
than
once
in
in
the
packet
which
I
did
look
through
says,
and
it
says
so
up
there
approved
by
and
made
changes
for.
What
does
that
exactly?
Does
that
mean
these
groups
have
seen
the
new
language
and
all
support
it?.
T
A
A
A
I
believe
that
concludes
our
agenda.
Does
anyone
on
the
committee
have
anything
else?
I
know
we
have
a
full
afternoon.
People
have
to
get
ready
for.