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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Transportation (9-18-23)
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A
All
right
we're
going
to
get
started
on
this.
Fourth
meeting
at
the
interim
joint
committee
on
Transportation
for
the
2023
interim
we'd
like
to
welcome
each
of
you
here
today
with
us.
This
afternoon
we
have
had
a
little
bit
of
a
schedule-
change
normally.
We
would
have
been
on
tomorrow,
but
due
to
a
meeting
going
on
in
Louisville
that
the
task
force
is
wanting
to
attend,
we've
made
some
a
Justice
adjustments,
so
we
apologize
for
any
inconvenience
that
that
may
have
caused
to
everyone
before
we
get
started.
A
I
want
to
remind
everyone
to
please
put
your
phones
on
silent
or
or
vibrate
also
that
the
media
materials
for
this
meeting
can
be
found
on
the
transportation
committee
page
on
the
lrc
website.
With
that
I'm
going
to
ask
the
chair,
Madam
Secretary,
to
call
the
roll.
C
D
A
Present
we
do
have
a
quorum
and
we
are
able
to
move
forward
now
and
conduct
our
business
first
order
of
business
is
we'll
need
a
motion
to
approve
the
meeting.
The
minutes
from
the
August
meeting.
A
Motion
representative
Fleming
second
over
here
by
someone
on
my
left,
who
was
that
Senator
wheeler
all
those
in
favor
aye
opposed
minutes,
are
approved
before
we
get
started
with
our
first
presenter.
Today
we
we
have
someone
on
our
staff
that
I'd
like
to
recognize
for
their
accomplishment.
They
do
an
outstanding
job
for
us
on
our
transportation
committee,
but
they
do
a
lot
of
work
outside
of
just
here
in
Frankfurt
on
our
committee,
they're
also
very
involved
at
the
national
level
and
transportation
issues
as
well.
A
At
the
this
Summer's
ncsl
conference
meeting
John
Snyder
was
named
the
staff
staff
Vice
chair
for
transportation
for
the
whole
thing
for
the
whole
thing,
which
means
next
year.
When
ncsl
is
in
Louisville,
he
will
be
the
chair.
He
will
be
the
top
dog,
so
hello.
C
Mr
chairman,
if
I
may,
and
members
of
the
committee
Mike
Hancock
I'm,
the
deputy
secretary
for
the
transportation
cabinet
and
secretary
gray,
was,
was
intending
to
come
today
and
to
to
do
what
I'm
about
to
do
so.
I'm
pinch
inning
for
him
he's
not
feeling
well
today.
Otherwise
he
would
be
here.
He
always
enjoys
being
before
your
committee
and
and
I
know
that
he
extends
his
best
wishes
for
great
meeting
here,
and
we
will
miss
having
him
here
for
sure.
C
So
I
wanted
on
behalf
of
secretary
gray,
just
to
let
you
all
know
how
much
we
appreciate
and
I
wanted
to
publicly
thank
Robin
Brewer
and
her
team
back
in
the
transportation
cabinet
for
the
great
work
that
they're
doing
and
have
done
putting
together
our
budget
documents
for
many
years.
But
this
year
has
been
a
little
bit
trying
in
terms
of
an
expedited
schedule,
a
lot
of
things
happening
at
the
last
minute
here
and
and
having
Robin
here
today.
I
promise.
C
F
Thank
you,
Robin
Broome,
the
executive
director
of
The
Office
of
budget
and
physical
management,
the
transportation
cabinet
so
I'll
give
you
a
brief
presentation
today,
just
on
how
fiscal
year
2023
ended
for
the
road
fund.
F
So,
as
you
all
know,
back
in
December
of
2021,
which
we're
getting
ready
to
go
through
this
process
again
here
very
soon,
the
consensus
forecasting
group
came
in
came
up
with
official
Revenue
estimates
for
2023
and
2024
the
current
biennium
that
we're
in
once
we
went
through
that
legislative
process.
We
had
a
biennial
budget
enacted.
F
Then
we
had
an
enacted
Road
fund,
Revenue
estimate
for
FY
2023,
so
that
number
for
2023
was
1
billion,
721
million
actual
Road
fund
revenues
for
FY
2023
totaled
1
billion
753
million
300
000,
which
was
78
million
more
than
the
previous
fiscal
year.
An
increase
of
4.7
percent
and
total
revenues
exceeded
the
enacted,
Revenue
estimate
by
32.3
million
or
1.9
percent
increase.
F
As
you
all
know,
that
Surplus
goes
to
the
road
fund.
Surplus
expenditure
account,
which
is
otherwise
known
as
state
Construction
motor
fuel
tax
revenue
collected,
was
35.5
million
less
than
the
enacted
Revenue
estimate
motor
vehicle
usage
tax
revenue
collected,
which
is
the
sales
tax
on
vehicle
purchases,
reaching
an
all-time
high
of
660.3
million
and
was
56.6
million
more
than
the
estimate.
All
other
accounts
taken
together
were
about
11
million
more
than
the
estimate.
F
So,
after
a
slow
start
to
the
fiscal
year
collections
accelerated
in
the
last
nine
months,
growth
rates
for
the
four
quarters
were
negative
point:
three
percent
seven
point:
three
percent
five
point:
seven
percent
and
6.1
percent
respectively
motor
fuel
tax
receipts
were
relatively
flat
for
the
first
three
quarters
of
FY
23
as
gasoline
and
special
fuels.
Consumption
and
tax
rate
stayed
static.
F
Governor
beshear
prevented
a
two-cent
tax
increase,
which
would
have
gone
into
effect
on
July
1
of
2022
through
an
emergency
regulation
in
response
to
inflation
and
surging
gas
prices.
The
emergency
regulation
expired
at
the
end
of
February
of
2023,
so
the
tax
rate
Rose
two
cents
effective
March
of
2023.
F
motor
fuel
tax
revenue
increased
accordingly
by
8.9
percent
from
April
through
June.
Quarterly
growth
rates
for
the
motor
fuel
taxes
were
negative
point.
Seven
percent
four
point:
three
percent
negative
point:
zero,
six
percent
and
eight
point:
nine
percent
respectively
motor
vehicle
usage
taxes,
which
are
imposed
at
the
time
of
sale
again
have
continued
to
exceed
expectations,
reaching
an
all-time
high
of
660.3
million
surging
past
last
year's
high
of
621
29.1
million
growth
rates
for
the
four
quarters
of
the
Usage
Tax
were
2.2
percent
5.7
percent
10
percent
and
2.4
percent
respectively.
F
Motor
vehicle
license
receipts
Rose,
3
million,
while
motor
vehicle
operators
receipts
increased
by
1.2
million
weight.
Distance
revenues
were
unchanged
only
increasing
about
half
a
million
compared
to
FY
2022
levels.
An
investment
income
had
an
unexpected
turnaround
when
receipts
increased
from
negative
11
million
in
2022
to
a
positive
6.5
million
this
year.
F
F
F
Last
year,
six
of
the
seven
major
categories
exceeded
prior
year
receipts
motor
field,
tax
receipts,
increased
8.9
percent
or
17.6
million
during
the
fourth
quarter,
primarily
due
to
the
increase
in
the
tax
rate,
receipts
were
two
215.7
million
compared
to
198
million
collected
during
the
fourth
quarter
last
fiscal
year,
motor
vehicle
usage
tax
receipts,
totaled
172.4
million
for
the
quarter
and
were
2.4
percent
or
4.1
million
more
than
the
same
period.
Last
year,.
F
So
the
enacted
Road
fund,
Revenue
estimate
for
FY
2024
is
1
billion,
679
million
one
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
according
to
the
quarterly
economic
and
revenue
report
for
the
fourth
quarter
of
FY
2023
from
The
Office
of
the
State
budget.
Director
Road
fund
revenues
are
forecasted
to
increase
seven
and
a
half
percent.
In
the
first
three
quarters
of
FY
2024.
F
motor
field,
taxes
will
continue
to
be
the
main
driver
of
Revenue
growth.
During
this
time
frame.
Motor
field
tax
receipts
are
expected
to
rise.
15.2
percent
in
the
first
nine
months
of
FY
2024,
due
to
a
large
increase
in
the
tax
rate,
with
the
gas
tax
rate
freeze
not
extended
through
the
remainder
of
FY
2023,
the
tax
rate
Rose,
two
cents
effective
March
of
2023..
F
Motor
vehicle
usage
tax
revenues
are
forecasted
to
decline
about
0.4
percent
over
the
first
three
quarters
of
FY
24,
as
spending
on
new
light.
Vehicles
Retreats
from
an
all-time
high
collections
in
this
account
have
been
very
strong
for
the
last
several
years,
with
collections
reaching
all-time
highs
in
each
of
the
past
three
years,
growth
in
motor
vehicle
license
fees
is
expected
to
slow
from
Two
and
a
half
percent
and
23
to
0.9
percent.
In
the
first
three
quarters
of
24.
F
weight.
Distance
taxes,
on
the
other
hand,
are
expected
to
fall
about
point
six
percent.
After
going
about
point
six
percent
in
the
prior
year.
Motor
vehicle
operators
license
revenues
are
forecasted
to
rise.
1.9
percent
and
investment
income
collections
are
projected
to
be
about
12.1
million,
and
that
concludes
my
presentation.
A
Thank
you
Robin.
It's
always
good
to
know
that
we've
got
more
revenues
coming
in
when
it
comes
to
Transportation
right.
That
means
more
work
that
that
we
can
do
and
be
able
to
maintaining
our
roadways
and
and
the
new
projects.
That's
going
on.
A
I
do
have
a
question
concerning
and
I
know
this
comes
from
the
budget
director's
office,
but
there's
there's
talk
and
decline
in
the
motor
vehicle
license.
Are
they
projecting
that
I
mean
the
license?
Is
that
the
tax
on
the
license,
or
is
that
the
fee
for
the
license
plates.
G
F
I
I
believe
that's
the
registration
and.
C
A
Good
representative
Smith.
H
C
H
Follow-Up
Mr
chairman:
can
we
ask
the
cabinet
to
come
with
a
proposal
for
our
subcommittee
on
transportation
to
so
we
can
address
it
before
the
session.
H
Is
there
some
way
you
can
come
up
with
a
formula
that
you
can
recommend
recommend
to
the
legislators
on
what
this
number
needs
to
be
or
give
us
some
sort
of
a
starting
point
instead
of
it
just
being
one
person
having
one
idea,
another
one
have
an
idea:
could
you
come
with?
H
You
have
the
ability
to
look
at
other
states
and
look
at
their
transportation
cabinets
more
so
than
you
know
myself
and
maybe
come
up
with
a
game
plan,
some
kind
of
a
recommendation
that
you'd
give
the
legislators
I
mean
I'm
a
proponent
of
a
gas
tax.
I
have
been
I,
mean
I'm
on
public
records
co-sponsoring
one.
This
morning,
I
filled
up
in
Corbin
I
noticed
the
diesel
was
40
cents
difference
across
the
street.
H
We
have
a
really
a
fluctuating
prices
today,
but
we
don't
have
fluctuating
income
a
solid
base
to
go
off
of
in
in
closing,
I
hear
things
and
maybe
I'm
not
as
educated
in
it
as
I
need
to
be,
but
that
our
road
fund
is
not
increased
enough
over
the
last
10
years
to
keep
up
with
the
demand
of
Roads
we've
seen
a
depletion
in
our
our
roads.
Of
the
the
and
I
know
it's
all
in
dollars.
H
I
mean
you'd,
be
blacktopping
everything
if
you
could,
but
that's
another
thing
if
you
could
get
prepared
for
us,
maybe
a
10-year
model
of
where
we
were
and
where
we're
at
so
we
can
at
least
have
an
argument
on
where
we
need
to
go.
I
know
taxes
are
they're
a
negative
to
go
back
home
and
talk
about
increasing
costs,
but
we've
got
to
have
something
we're
not
going
to
just
have
Mana
dropped
from
above
to
all
of
a
sudden
start
fixing
our
rows.
H
A
And
I
would
remind
the
committee
we
passed
legislation
I
believe
last
year
that
begins
in
January
of
24
that
electric
vehicles,
when
they
go
to
register
their
vehicles,
that
it
will
be,
they
will
be
charged
120
dollars
for
an
electric
vehicle,
and
if
my
memory
serves
me
right,
sixty
dollars,
if
it's
a
hybrid
vehicle
to
help
cover
now
I
guess
the
one
question
I've
got
to
clarify
is
whether
that
money
goes
into
the
road
fund
or
it's
going
into
the
general
fund.
A
I
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
It
wasn't
I
that
had
the
answer
it
was.
Our
staff
John
had
the
answer
right
off
the
right
off
the
cuff,
also
on
the
EV.
You
might
mention
also
that
we
have
a
three
cent
for
charging
stations,
a
three
cent
per
kilowatt
hour
tax
and
to
capture
those
folks
traveling
through
Kentucky
that
had
to
stop
and
charge
your
car,
and
you
know
we
have
a
lot
of
with
our
interstates.
We
have
a
lot
of
out-of-staters
helping
us
on
our
our
maintain
our
roads,
which
they
should
they're
they're
using
them
too.
I
So
that's
that's
good
good
to
know
and
Robin
I.
Thank
you
for
your
report.
As
always
good
to
hear
from
you
the
if
am
I
correct,
that
the
increase
in
the
gas
tax
is
the
first
one
we've
had
since
2014.
J
I
I
So
anyway,
with
that.
That
said,
thank
you
for
for
that,
and
it's
I
guess
surprising
that
the
motor
vehicle
usage
is
is
as
strong
as
it
is.
So
I
just
want
to
make
that
comment
and
again.
Thank
you.
Robin
for
the
Mike
I
got
a
question
for
you.
If
you
don't
mind,
Mr
chairman
can
I
my
good.
I
Of
course
we
talk
about
the
the
budget
being
right
on
the
horizon
and
we've
asked
a
time
or
two
for
the
shift
scores
to
be
included.
If,
hopefully,
you've
worked
out
a
way
to
make
that
happen,
because
that
would
certainly
help
not
only
not
only
us
the
general
assembly,
but
it
would
help
the
cabinet
too,
as
you
do
your
plan.
I
Okay
back
to
Robin,
I
guess
one
other
question:
Mr
chairman
on
we
had
this
Surplus
and
you
said
that
goes
that
goes
right
into
the
highway
construction
fund.
I
What
do
we
do
on
projects?
You
know,
there's
there's
projects
in
the
road
plan
now
they've
been
in
there
for
years
that
are
they'll,
never
be
built.
How
do
we
deal
with
that?
Money
was
I,
guess
appropriated
or,
of
course,
we
always
over
over
programmed
our
road
fund.
So
I
guess
there's
there
would
never
be
a
surplus
that
way,
but
how
do
how
do
we
account
for
those
those
dollars
that
are
never
used.
F
Well
I
mean
so
the
the
way
that
the
budget
Works
in
in
concert
with
a
highway
plan.
You
know
the
legislature
is
appropriating
a
certain
amount
of
money
for
the
state
construction
program
and
then,
whatever
that
money
is,
we
try
to
do
as
many
projects
as
we
can
that
are
in
the
actual
plan
itself.
So.
The
plan
has
estimates
of
how
much
projects
are
going
to
cost,
but
the
appropriation
from
the
budget
Bill
itself
is
not
directly
tied
to
a
specific
project
in
the
highway
plan.
It's
just
as
many
as
we
can
get
done.
K
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
just
to
follow
up
just
a
little
bit
on
chairman
Higdon's
comment
there
on
the
tubers
on
the
two
cent
increase.
What
does
that
actually
equate
to
in
dollars?.
F
A
There
being
no
other
questions,
Mr
deputy
secretary,
thank
you
Robin.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
the
work
that
you
do.
Thank
you
all.
Thank
you.
Next
up
we'll
have
the
contract
and
review
for
the
20
fiscal
year,
23
and
forecast
for
24.
Mr,
John
Moore.
A
Thank
you,
gentlemen,
welcome
and
glad
to
have
you
all
back
in
front
of
the
committee
again
today
and
if
you
just
please
state
your
name
for
the
record
Dan
B,
you
may.
G
Begin
John,
Moore,
Deputy,
State,
Highway,
engineer.
L
And
Jason
sawala
Deputy
State
Highway
engineer
as
well.
So
thank
you
so
much
chairman
Blanton
and
co-chair
Higdon
for
having
us
here
to
speak
at
the
committee
today
about
the
Contracting
review
for
fiscal
year
23
and
forecast
for
fiscal
year
24..
L
We
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
come
and
speak
to
the
committee
today
about
our
Highway
programs,
obviously
something
that's
very
important
at
the
transportation
cabinet.
The
last
two
years
have
been
robust
for
Highway
improvements
across
the
Commonwealth.
In
addition
to
numerous
needs
which
have
been
addressed
through
staff
conducted
maintenance
operations
and
contracts
via
on-call
Services
kytc
has
delivered
1171
projects,
totaling
1.98
billion
dollars
for
each
project
receiving
bids
kytc
produces
an
independent
construction
cost
estimate
during
the
advertisement
period,
which
is
called
the
engineer's
estimate
for
projects
awarded
during
this
time
frame.
L
The
corresponding
Engineers
estimate
equals
were
totaled
to
be
about
2.02
billion
dollars.
Included
in
this
total
are
695
asphalt,
projects
awarded
for
403
million,
with
the
corresponding
Engineers
estimate
of
420
million
dollars.
Through
the
balance
of
this
year,
we
anticipate
a
number
of
additional
important
or
major
projects
to
be
led
to
construction.
That
was
one
of
the
questions
that
was
asked
and
I'll
go
through
a
brief
list
now
I
just
just
for
for
clarity.
L
This
isn't
certainly
all
the
projects
that
are
going
to
be
put
out
to
construction,
letting
throughout
the
end
of
the
year,
but
we
were
asked
for
major
projects
and
so
I'm
gonna
I'm
gonna
go
through
a
list
here,
if
that's
okay
with
you
Mr
chairman,
so
the
first
project
on
that
list
is
Laurel
County
in
your
Highway
plan
that
will
be
11-185,
improve
safety
access
management
and
reduce
congestion
on
U.S
25e
in
Laurel
County
from
the
Knox
Laurel
County
Line
to
Kentucky
770..
L
L
Pike
County
12-263.69
U.S
460
Pikeville
to
Virginia
state
line,
U.S
460,
slash
Kentucky
80
from
the
Kentucky
195
to
Donnelly,
dunleary
Hollow.
Excuse
me
and
that's
surfacing
for
those
of
you.
Who've
been
following
that
project
along
through
the
year
surfacing
for
Section,
6A
and
6B
in
Bullitt
County.
We
have
5-391.3
on
I-65,
improve
operational
performance
of
the
I-65
Kentucky
480
interchange,
including
ramp
improvements
and
turning
Lanes
Fayette
County
7-113.02.
L
Oldham
County
5-22098,
which
is
I-71,
address
condition
of
I-71
from
mile
point
14.49
to
mile
point
22.3.
So
we
have
you
know
a
smattering
of
projects
there
that
are,
you
know,
doing
Asset
Management
on
existing
routes,
creating
new
routes,
adding
capacity
addressing
safety
and
and
those
types
of
things.
And
so
that's
just
some
of
the
highlights
for
for
major
projects
that
we
are
anticipating
throughout
the
end
of
the
year.
I
I
would
just
say
that,
as
with
anything,
that's
in
the
future
you
know
there
are.
L
Beyond
this
calendar
year,
kytc
anticipates
a
similar
number
of
projects.
You
know
I
mentioned
earlier
1171
over
the
past
couple
years,
so
approximately
600
projects
per
year
and
a
similar
total
for
those
projects,
as
in
years
past,
approximately
one
billion
dollars
as
far
as
construction,
letting
you
know
gazing
into
our
Crystal
Ball.
But
obviously
that
has
a
lot
to
do
with.
L
You
know
not
only
conditions
and
things
like
that,
but
also
things
in
the
highway
plan
and
and
those
types
of
things
in
the
budget
for
next
year
that
Robin
just
discussed
so
again,
I
want
to
thank
our
co-chairs
for
for
having
us
up
here
today
and
happy
to
take
any
questions.
If
you
have
any
representative
Blanton.
Thank.
A
You
Jason
I'm,
going
to
defer
to
Chairman
Higdon
to
begin
the
question.
Okay,.
I
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
for
being
here.
Could
you
give
us
an
update
on
our
Mega
projects?
We
we
under
the
BSB,
the
Ben
Spence
Bridge.
It's
we've
got.
We've
received
our
Federal
grant
for
that
and
that's
proceeding,
but
you
might
give
us
an
update
on
that
and
also
our
other
two
Mega
projects
that
you
know
the
I-69
Bridges
and
the
Mountain
Parkway
and
I
guess
the
we've
applied
for
grants
for
those
other
projects
a
status
on
that.
Please,
if
you
don't
mind
sure.
L
So
obviously,
as
as
you
mentioned,
you
know,
we
were
the
recipient
between
us
and
Ohio
of
a
little
over
1.6
billion
dollars
in
in
federal
grants
for
the
Brent
Spence
Bridge,
Corridor,
companion,
Bridge,
Project
and
that's
you
know,
we're
we've
gone
through
and
we're
working
through
procurement
and
early
Contracting
and
those
types
of
things
as
as
we
you
know
continue
throughout
the
year
here,
as
discussed
in
front
of
this
committee
before
you
know,
we
would
be
seeking
additional
Federal
discretionary
grants
for
both
the
I-69
River
Crossing
and
that
application
was
made
just
about
a
month
and
a
half
ago,
plus
or
minus
in
in
concert
with
Indiana
Indiana
was
the
lead
on
that
application.
L
I
don't
have
that
number
632,
okay,
632
million
was
the
amount
that
was
requested
in
that
discretionary,
Grant
and
I
was
going
to
say
631,
so
I'm
glad
I
turned
around
and
on
the
Mountain
Parkway
as
have
been
discussed
in
front
of
the
committee.
You
know
we
were
looking
and
seeking
federal
grants
for
being
able
to
complete
the
Mountain
Parkway
and
and
to
supplement
funding
that's
available
through
the
highway
plan,
and
that
was
submitted
here
in
just
the
last
few
weeks
as
as
promised
by
the
transportation
cabinet.
I
E
L
I
One
one
final
I
guess
a
little
bit
on
the
the
formula
Fierce
with
the
Money
Rules
secondary
and
Municipal
and
and
County
County
Roads.
Can
you
give
us
a
little
update,
are?
Are
you
privy
or
do
you
have
that
information
available?
I
You
know
what
that
looks
like
compared
to
years
past.
Are
you
know,
are
we
getting
the
same?
Are
we
getting
enough
money
to
you
know
for
rules
secondary
roads
because
I
think
only
what,
according
to
according
to
John,
only
what
about
48
of
what
the
state
takes
in
goes
to
to
those?
It
goes
down
to
the
formula
of
fierce.
L
I
think
that
our
Commissioner
of
Rural
and
secondary
Rhodes
Bobby
Joe
Lewis,
will
be
better
suited
to
to
answer
that
question
and
I
I
apologize,
I,
just
I.
Don't
have
those
facts
and
figures
in
front
of
me.
So
if
you'll
you'll
give
us
a
little
bit
of
time,
we'll
be
happy
to
respond
to
that.
I
A
L
C
A
And
that
information
that
you're
going
to
say
and
if
you'll
send
it
to
to
John
Snyder
he'll,
get
out
to
all
the
committee
to
make
sure
one
question
dealing
with
not
Mega
projects
but
just
resurfacing.
Let's
talk
briefly
about
that.
A
Before
we
move
on
I
know
we
have
some
other
agendas,
but
so
that
the
committee
knows
and
and
is
aware,
we
generally
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
my
understanding,
we
tended
in
you
in
times
past,
to
fund
about
800
miles
worth
of
resurfacing
per
year,
plus
or
minus
a
little
bit,
but
with
the
cost
of
of
blacktop
and
things.
The
way
they
are
now
we're
down
to
probably
less
than
500
miles
per
year.
Is
that
an
accurate
statement.
G
Not
done
the
math
on
that
exactly
but
I
wouldn't
I
wouldn't
stand
up
and
oppose
that
because
that's
about
where
we're
trending
is
in
in
the.
A
Down
so
so,
I'll
bring
that
up
because
I'd,
like
some
information
to
where
we
look
at
quite
frankly
when
we
begin
to
break
800
miles
down,
we're
still
looking
at
probably
close
to
a
20-year
rotation
on
roadways
and
and
Kentucky
what
it's
going
to
take
to
get
us
back
on
track
to
where
we
are
apart,
because
I've
I've
got
I've
got
probably
as
many
calls
on
bad
roadways
when
I
go
drive
them
they're,
they're,
legitimate
and
there's
a
lot
of
breakage
and
and
I
did
a
lot
of
driving
over
through
Morgan
and
Elliott
County
this
weekend
and
road
for
and
they're
just
in
need
of
resurfacing,
and
we
just
don't.
A
We
aren't
putting
the
funding
there
and
I'd
really
like
to
know
what
it's
going
to
take
and
let's
get
started
in
the
right
direction
to
get
back
to
funding
these,
to
make
sure
that
we're
maintaining
the
roads
that,
sir,
it's
not
your
all's
fault
I'm,
not
if
the
funding's,
not
there,
you
can't
do
it
you're
spending
what
you
got
and
doing
the
best
you
can.
But
let's,
let's
help
you
guys
have
the
the
funding
to
do
what
needs
to
be
done.
I.
G
Would
I
would
mention
the
our
recently
updated
Asset
Management
plan,
which
is
on
our
website
and
we'd,
be
happy
to
to
send
a
copy
of
that
to
the
committee?
That
updates
are
our
Outlook
and
what
our
needs
are
are
and
keep
in
mind
from
year
to
year,
the
mileage
that's
associated
with
the
funding
can
vary
based
on
the
treatment
types.
You
know
a
a
Micro,
Surface
or
a
thin
lay.
It
goes
a
lot
further
than
a
full
full.
M
G
Rehabilitation,
and
so
you
can't
quite
tell
the
the
symptom
based
on
just
mileage,
but
your
your
point
is
well
made.
Yep.
A
A
Next
up
we're
going
to
once
again
talk
about
utility
work,
Zone
safety
talk
about
work,
Zone
safety,
this
time
from
a
utility
workers
perspective,
so
I
believe
we
have
Mr
David
Roy
with
Columbia
Gas
and
Phil
Toliver.
Is
that
correct
pronunciation?
Mr
Tolliver
if
you'll
join
him
at
the
desk,
he's
with
the
Kentucky,
Power
and
so
gentlemen?
Welcome?
And
if
you
guys
will
state
your
name
for
the
record
and
then
you
guys
can
present
begin
your
presentation.
A
N
All
right,
chairman
Blanton,
you
know
coach
here
Higdon.
Thank
you
very
much
and
steam.
Members
of
the
committee
appreciate
the
time
that
you've
given
us
a
day
to
talk
through
some
of
the
issues
that
our
two
companies
feel
very
passionately
about
having
to
do
with
our
workers
performing
everyday
work
in
the
work
zones
that
they've
got
set
up.
N
We
each
have
a
separate
presentation
that
we're
going
to
be
covering
today,
I'm
going
to
be
covering
the
one
for
Columbia
Gas,
first
slightly
different,
but
both
strongly
in
favor
of
efforts
that
you
guys
can
assist
with
with
regards
to
making
our
work
zones
safer.
N
Okay,
see
so
just
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
background
about
Columbia
Gas
Columbia
Gas
is
one
of
Six
States
of
distribution
operations
that
serve
gas
for
customers
all
under
the
nice
Source
corporate
umbrella,
Columbia
Gas
Kentucky
is
one
of
those
along
with
Indiana
Ohio,
Pennsylvania,
Maryland
and
Virginia.
Okay
and
across
all
the
states
represent.
N
You
know
about
3
million
customers
for
those
different
states
that
we've
got
when
you
look
at
Kentucky,
specifically
for
Columbia
Gas.
We
have
about
135
000
customers
across
the
counties
that
you
show
there
mainly
Central
and
East
Eastern
Kentucky.
We
serve
30
counties
around
260
employees.
As
you
see,
and
every
day
we've
got
about
three
to
four
hundred
contractors
that
are
out
on
the
roads
with
our
people
any
day
of
the
week
that
you
you
want
to
talk
about.
N
In
fact,
when
you
really
look
across
all
of
the
states
for
nice
source
in
the
last
five
years,
we've
seen
us
260
increase
in
incidents
where
people
have
entered
work
zones
intentionally:
okay,
Kentucky,
that's
actually
a
little
bit
higher
than
the
rest
of
our
state,
so
a
little
bit
higher
in
Kentucky
and
the
the
top
few
items
that
you
see
up
there.
For
the
reasons.
This
is
what
we
can
tell,
because
the
ones
that
are
impatient,
they
typically
keep
on
going.
They,
you
know,
cause
some
destruction,
some
chaos
and
they
normally
keep
moving.
N
The
ones
that
are
inattentive.
Drivers
normally
are
actually
hitting
equipment
hitting
people
falling
into
a
ditch.
Those
are
kind
of
stuck
behind,
and
so
we're
able
to
understand
what
the
rationale
for
for
why
they
did
what
they
did
was.
So,
as
you
see
some
of
the
biggest
incidents
and
patient
and
Attention
toxication
medical
events,
and
then
you
know
some
motorists
are
confused.
We
we
oftentimes,
have
to
do
a
really
good
job
to
make
sure
those
are
set
up,
so
they
understand
what
we're
doing
okay.
N
So
what
what
we're
here
to
talk
about
is
how
to
prevent
injuries,
incidents
and
things
like
that
with
the
people
that
are
in
that
work,
we
may
have
showed
that
we've
got
four
to
six
hundred
people
out
doing
work
every
single
day,
but
we
are
one
utility
of
many
that
are
out
there
on
the
Kentucky
roadways
doing
work.
N
N
Some
of
the
things
that
we
use
as
utilities
to
kind
of
help
with
those
work
zones
depending
upon
the
location,
you
can
see
escalation
and
types
of
types
of
devices
or
protocol
that
we'll
use
to
minimize
the
risk
of
those
workers.
You
know
you'll
see
a
lot
of
cones
and
signage.
That's
the
most
common
you've
got
flaggers
kind
of
after
that.
N
We
do
use
from
time
to
time
some
portable
speed
bumps
in
some
states
and
rumble
strips
those
can
be
effective.
There
are
some
challenges
with
them.
We
oftentimes
times
use
off-duty
police
officers
in
highly
congested
locations
where
we
know
that
we've
had
examples
of
people
neglecting
the
work,
Zone
setup
and
then
we'll
use
water
barriers.
N
Other
types
of
control,
barriers
that
are
kind
of
bigger
bulkier
that
are
filled
and
kind
of
are
weighted,
some
of
the
more
costly
but
effective
devices
that
utilities
also
use
crash
trucks
with
an
attenuator.
We
actually
deployed
one
in
Pennsylvania
recently
on
a
site
and
saved
a
flagger's
life,
and
then
what
that
is
is
that's
a
truck
that
has
an
apparatus
on
the
back.
N
It's
got
flashing
signs
and,
if
somebody
crashes
into
that,
it's
it's
made
to
absorb
that
energy,
that
that
crash,
okay
and
then
some
other
things
that
are
are
less
common,
automated
flag
or
assist
devices.
These
are
more
electronic
flagging
systems
that
are
set
up
and
then
some
intrusion
alarms.
We
can
set
up
some
intrusion,
alarms
to
let
workers
know
Downstream
that
somebody
has
entered
that
when
they
shouldn't
have,
and
it
can
allow
them
to
get
out
of
the
way
a
little
bit
quicker.
Okay.
N
So
those
are
a
few
of
the
things
that
that
we
do
utilize
in
our
work
zones.
N
But
you
know
when
I,
when
I
spoke
to
some
of
our
union
members,
our
employees
that
are
out
there,
they
really
wanted
help
with
two
things.
First
is
harsher
penalties
for
those
that
that
are
intentionally
disregarding
those
setups
they.
They
have
a
heavy
frustration
when
they
know
who
did
it.
They've
gotten
information,
they've
taken
a
picture
of
a
license
plate
right
and
an
officer
shows
up,
and
it's
not
the
officer's
fault,
but
they
show
up
and
they
didn't
Witness
so
that
nothing
can
be
done.
N
That's
very
frustrating
to
a
worker,
that's
just
trying
to
do
their
job,
and
you
know.
The
second
point
is
the
witness
piece
find
a
way
for
if,
if
multiple
people
witness
an
event,
if
there
is
some
way
that
we
can
do
something
to
address
that
person
that
chose
to
enter
whether
they
are
late
and
frustrated
or
whether
they're
under
the
influence,
but
if
they
keep
moving
it's
very
difficult
to
impact
or
to
to
address
that
long
term
with
those
people.
M
M
M
So
our
service
area
in
Kentucky
powers
provide
service
to
about
163,
000
customers
and
all
a
part
of
20
Eastern,
Kentucky
counties,
distribution
operations,
work
from
service
centers
in
Ashland,
Hazard,
Pikeville
and
from
area
offices
in
Paintsville
and
Whitesburg.
Also,
we
maintain
about
10
000
miles
of
distribution
lines
1250
miles
of
transmission
lines,
as
you
can
see
on
the
map
kind
of
the
eastern
part.
There.
M
M
Some
of
the
things
we
do.
You
know
we
follow
the
manual
on
uniform
traffic
control
devices
for
streets
and
highways.
It's
a
requirement.
We
utilize
the
University
of
Kentucky
basic
work,
Zone
Flagger
train
to
trainer
program,
so
we
have
a
trainer
that
trains
our
employees
and
we
want
to
make
sure
they
know
a
proper
setup
to
inform
the
public.
We
utilize
qualified
business
partners
for
this
for
our
flagging
Services
area-wide
traffic
control,
Road,
safe
traffic
control,
Iceland,
Tree,
Service,
and
then
what
we
do
further
than
that
is.
M
We
do
safety
observations
on
all
these
business
partners
and
our
internal
folks
about
safety
and
health
and
our
management
I
actually
go
out
and
verify.
We
have
proper
set
work,
Zone
setups.
We
need
our.
We
need
to
make
sure
we're
telling
our
public
hey
we're
here.
Please
slow
down,
protect
our
employees.
M
Some
of
the
things
we
think
about
when
we
set
set
up
a
work,
Zone
plan
for
safety,
always
plan
workers
should
always
consider
the
safety
of
the
motorists,
the
pedestrians
and
the
workers
moving
through
the
zone
limit
delays.
Our
goal
is
to
get
the
traffic
through
try
not
to
delay
them
any
more
than
we
have
to
positive
guidance,
make
sure
they
understand
motor
stand.
Pedestrians
should
be
warm
informed
and
guided
in
a
clear
and
positive
manner.
No
confusing
monitor.
You
know
you
have
to
go
back
and
look
and
continuously
monitor
that
work.
M
Zone
things
change
things
happen
in
a
work
Zone.
Sometimes
we
move
a
truck
something
happens.
We
got
to
reset
that
work
Zone
and
make
sure
the
public
understands
and
we
rely
on
our
training
and
plan.
For
the
worst
case,
workers
should
have
planned
for
the
possibility
of
variant
Vehicles,
leaving
a
roadway
and
affecting
the
work.
Zone
have
a
have
a
way
out
to
what
we
call
it
leave
yourself
an
out.
M
A
It
is
a
very
concerning
issue
that
that
you
are
facing
with
and
that
your
employees
are
dealing
with
on
a
daily
basis
and
I
want
us
to
work
to
provide
a
safe
work
environment
for
them,
while
they're
out
there,
it's
not
like
they're
just
out
there
because
they
want
to
be,
they
have
to
be,
and
so
we
have
to
provide
them.
A
The
resources
necessary
I
I
will
touch
on
on
one
thing
that
was
brought
up:
Mr
Roy
that
an
officer's
right
in
Kentucky
about
if
they
didn't
witness
it,
they
can't
issue
a
citation
I'm,
not
going
I'm,
not
going
to
speak
to
why
they
didn't
advise
your
employees
of
this.
But
your
employees
can
contact
the
County
Attorney
with
that
evidence
and
obtain.
If
the
county
attorney
will
I
can't
speak
for
water,
County
attorney
will
or
will
not
do
they
have
that
discretion,
but
they
can
obtain
as
a
witness
themself
a
summons
for
that
individual.
A
Now
they
may
not
be
able
to
prove
speeding
because
they
don't
have
radar,
but
they
could
prove
reckless
driving
or
something
of
that
nature.
If
they've
got
the
driver's
license
and
their
testimony,
they
could
seek
a
summons
for
that
individual
through
the
county,
attorney's
office,
and
then
law
enforcement
would
serve
that.
So,
if
they're
not
advising
your
employees
that
when
they
come
out,
they
should
be
because
that
is
an
option
out
there.
That's.
N
N
If,
if
a
car
drives
over
that
and
they
claim
damage
or
if
they
would
hit
it
and
Veer
off,
there
can
be
some
liability
issues
there
at
the
same
time
that
shouldn't
happen,
if
they're
going
the
right
speed
as
they
go
through
that
zone
right,
something
like
that,
an
allowance
for
utilities
and
others
to
deploy
that
there's
been
some
discussion.
Other
states
on
whether
camera
use
is
appropriate
or
not.
That's
a
touchy
subject.
N
One
right,
so
that's
a
touchy
one,
but
the
more
flexibility
that
we
can
get
from
cooperation
from
responding
officers
I
think
is
the
big
one.
Our
our
employees
feel
like
that
they're
on
an
island
that
when
they
do
have
someone
respond,
they
don't
get
a
lot
of
help
to
figure
out
what
they
can
do.
So
the
point
that
you
made
earlier
is
fantastic,
and
maybe
we
can
partner
more
with
the
local
departments
to
share
that
information
to
make
sure
that
we
get
that
out
there.
M
Yeah
I
tend
to
agree,
I
think
you
know
a
heightened
awareness
for
our
public.
You
know
maybe
a
campaign
and
not
necessarily
for
Interstate
64,
while
it's
dangerous,
I
drove
through
five
construction
zones
this
morning
to
get
here
from
Ashland.
You
know
five
separate
zones,
but
on
our
secondary
roads
and
our
in
our
back
roads
is
what
I
call
them.
We
do
a
lot
of
work
there,
a
lot
of
temporary
traffic
control
zones
we
set
up.
M
We
might
only
be
there
for
30
40
minutes,
so
we
gotta,
we
gotta,
let
the
public
know
and
we're
going
to
increase
some
penalties
for
those
people.
That's
violating
those
zones.
That's
coming
through
those
zones
we're
starting
to
see
a
lot
of
off-road
vehicles
coming
through
our
zones
in
our
territory,
side-by-sides
and
things
of
that
nature,
local
local
police
force.
M
Local
sheriff's
departments
have
been
really
good
to
Kentucky
power
to
assist
us
when
we
ask
you
know,
but
they're
also
busy,
but
we
have
no
issues
with
that,
but
really
penalties
awareness
campaign
would
help,
and
then
you
know
we're
we're
looking
for
options.
A
N
N
There's
a
lot
of
States
looking
at
hands-free,
which
then
limits
distracted,
driving
you've
got
different
states
looking
at
and
and
more
employing
higher
higher
fee
structures,
higher
penalties
aligning
aligning
penalties
similar
to
DUIs
in
some
locations,
with
respect
to
repeat
offenders,
so
I,
but
I
would
say
that
all
states
are
struggling
with
trying
to
find
the
right
mix
that
suits
its
citizens
and
Kentucky
is
no
different.
N
I
just
know
that
we
need
anything.
Any
incremental
I
think
we
would
say
is
a
help
in
the
right
direction.
Okay,.
M
In
as
far
as
Kentucky
powered
and
obviously
we
do
operate
in
other
states
and,
like
you
said,
every
state
is
a
little
bit
different.
They
have
a
little
bit
different
laws
and
I'm
not
really
familiar
with
some
of
them.
Most
of
them
follow
the
mutcd
and
and
that's
kind
of
the
standard,
and
if
it's
deployed
properly
and
used
properly,
it's
a
good
system
for
us
for
temporary
traffic
control.
Okay,.
A
All
right,
thank
you.
We
do
have
some
questions
chairman
Higdon.
I
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
appreciate
that,
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
We
we,
we
hear
a
lot
about
work,
Zone
safety
and
one
of
the
things
that
you
have
on
here
that
I've
I've
often
thought
would
but
I've
never
seen
these
deployed
the
rumble
strips
or
the
portable
speed
bumps.
Have
you
all
used
those
or
ever
seen
those
deployed
I'm
just
curious
what
they
would
really
what
they
would
look
like
and
how
they
would
work
and
what
speeds
would
they
you
had
to
slow
down
to
be
able
to
negotiate
them.
M
So
so
we
looked
at
those
several
years
ago
and
I
don't
have
a
lot
of
data
on
it,
but
they
they
do
present
some
issues,
some
liability
issues
when
you
put
things
out
in
the
roadway
that
could
cause
if
People's
traveling
the
correct
speed,
it
will
not
cause
an
issue,
but
if
somebody's
traveling
over
the
speed
limit
or
too
fast
for
the
conditions-
and
then
they
come
upon
that
speed
bump,
could
could
startle
them
or
cause
some
issues.
N
Yeah
we've
seen
similar
in
certain
areas.
It's
something
that
you
got
to
be
careful
on.
It
depends
on
the
speed
or
the
the
speed
limit
in
the
zone
that
you're
going
to
deploy
those
in,
but
as
far
as
the
look
and
feel
of
them,
if
you've
ever
been
in
a
subdivision
that
kind
of
have
those
bumps
that
it's
a
heavy
heavy,
durable
rubber,
that's
thrown
out
there
they're
I'd,
say
60
to
90
pounds
generally
depending
upon
the
size
and
the
width
that
you're
going
to
deploy
and
they're.
N
Not
sometimes
you
can
go
ahead
and
stake
them
to
the
pavement.
Sometimes
you
can
just
lay
them
out,
I
think
from
a
a
locality
perspective,
whether
Municipal,
County
or
state.
Sometimes
you
can
have
different
perspectives
on
whether
you,
whether
they
want
those
deployed
or
not,
based
on
what
you're
going
to
do
so
I
would
say:
we've
had
mixed
use
of
them
across
our
footprint
and
sometimes
successful,
sometimes
not,
but
they
are
a
tool
in
the
toolbox
that
can
be
used.
O
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
and
I.
Think
several
of
your
inquiries
were
along
the
lines
of
what
I
would
have
asked
as
well,
but
I
would
think
you
know.
Most
of
these
that
I
run
into
are
along
the
Mountain
Parkway
and
I
noticed
today.
They
generally
had
a
trooper
at
each
end
on
the
construction
zone,
which
is
you
know,
I
think
good
policy
gathered
their
lights
on
to
encourage
people
to
slow
down
and
the
like.
But
you
know,
as
far
as
the
the
speed
bumps
I
mean
I
could
see.
You're,
not
you
know.
O
O
Guess
his
experience
as
a
former
police
officer
knows
well
that
there
is
I,
guess
a
right
to
confrontation
in
the
United
States
Constitution
that
he's
well
aware
of
I
mean
and
that
you
know,
I
think
that
there
are
some
issues
with
with
cameras
and
and
these
snap
cams
and
everything
on
that.
O
As
far
as
chains
of
custody
and
other
and
even
figure
out
who
was
driving
the
vehicle,
but
you
know
how
many
of
these
incidents
or
how
many
injuries
have
we
actually
had
in
say
the
last
12
months
on
either
of
your
all's
jobs,
Within
These
work
zones
as
a
result
of
you
know
somebody
being
hit
by
a
vehicle.
M
So
I
do
not
have
that
data
for
mine,
but
I
did
pull
some
data
off
the
Kentucky
Transportation
site
and
I.
Think
they've
been
1074
construction
zone
crashes
in
2022,
271
injuries
and
66
fatalities.
M
O
Is
that
the
same
for
Colombia
it.
N
O
I
mean
I've
I've
got
an
injury
case
right
now
for
I
think
a
bezak
worker,
but
she
was
hit
by
our
supervisor.
So
you
know
that
that
wasn't
necessarily
somebody
else
going
down
the
road,
but
it
can't
happen
and
I
understand.
It
is
a
serious
situation.
N
I
I
would
say
that
to
your
question,
Senator
wheeler,
that
when
our
people
are
out
in
the
work
zones
area,
they
are
trained.
A
H
P
Are
the
work
Zone
safety
plans
peer-reviewed,
for
instance,
you
all
come
in
and
say
we're
gonna
we're
gonna
work
here
this
date
or
these
dates
and
we're
going
to
submit
that
project
that
scope
up
to
kytc
or
the
local
municipality
prior
to
you
all
beginning
any
work.
N
Depends
on
the
jurisdiction,
it's
a
great
question
when
we're
talking
State,
Road,
setups
and
especially
Road
lane
closures
or
shifting
of
traffic
patterns.
Those
normally
are
set
up,
at
least
with
respect
to
what
we're
going
to
be
doing
with
the
traffic.
They
don't
get
into
the
detail
as
much
about
some
of
the
particulars
on
barricade
types
and
other
things
we're
going
to
be
doing
when
you
get
more
down
into
the
local
a
little
bit
less
sophisticated
in
how
that
process
works.
P
We
have
a
follow-up.
The
reason
I
asked
I
was
recently
out
in
Western.
Kentucky
and
I
saw
several
places
where
they
were
doing
road
construction
and
the
what
I
would
call
the
merge
ramps
onto
the
highways
or
the
interstates
were
stopped.
They
were,
there
were
like
stop
signs
there
and
I
think
some
people
again
I
think
he
mentioned
public
awareness.
Some
people
may
be
coming
through
that
intersection.
Maybe
thinking
hey.
This
is
a
merge.
P
M
So
I
just
respond
to
that
on
our
larger
projects,
so
there's
two
different
types
of
work:
Zone,
there's
temporary
and
then
there's
a
long-term
or
short
duration,
long
duration.
M
So
on
those
long
duration
like
when
you're
when
you're
working
on
US-23
in
my
district,
for
instance,
if
you're
doing
a
project
along
that,
you
have
to
file
a
a
plan
with
the
highway
department,
traffic
control
plan
and
have
that
approved
with
your
project.
And
that's
how
we
address
that.
And
then,
of
course
you
have
the
short
term,
which
is
you
know,
you're
just
going
to
be
there
for
an
hour
or
two
and
you're
just
setting
up
and
it
falls
under
the
temporary
traffic
control
proportion.
P
A
H
N
I
would
not
say
that
Colombia
has
endorsed
those
wholly.
We
have
evaluated
a
couple
different
options.
There
either
live
or
even
dead
or
non-non
non-operational
cameras
to
Simply
make
people
think
that
you
have
that
in
some
jurisdictions
that
do
allow
it
in
some
of
the
other
states.
H
Anything
a
quick
follow-up,
Mr
chairman
the
I
had
a
colleague
that
had
been
pushing
for
years,
put
cameras
on
buses
and
I,
really
hadn't
thought
about
it.
Until
my
recently,
a
local
school
district
adopted
it
and
just
so
happened.
I
was
following
one
a
few
days
after
reading
about
them,
adopting
it
and
I
seen
a
car
speed
up
just
so,
we
could
get
around
it.
H
Quick
enough
before
the
bus
stop
came
out,
knowing
that
they
knew
that
there
was
going
to
be
a
bus,
stop
come
out
on
the
side
of
the
bus,
but
they
flew
to
get
by
it,
quick
enough
because
it
was
in
a
hurry.
You
know,
I
think
it's
important
when
you
say
a
thousand
incidences
when
you
talk
about
fatalities,
I
think
it's
important
that
we
take
this
serious
and
I
know.
H
As
a
senator
pointed
out,
we
have
rights,
but
so
I
think
there's
also
legitimacy
to
the
rights
of
the
workers
on
finding
the
best
remedy
for
it,
and
so
I
think
that
we
need
to
really
look
into
the
aspect
of
what
all
the
options
are
and
then,
as
legislators,
try
to
choose
the
the
greatest
Paths
of
resistance
on
these
fatalities.
You
know
it's
going
to
be
where
you
can't
find
a
worker
that'll
go
on
the
road
and
then
where's
our
infrastructure
going
to
be
so
in
saying
that
Mr
chairman
I,
appreciate
the
time.
A
Thank
you,
and
so
let
me
wrap
things
up:
Mr
Roy,
Mr
Toliver.
Thank
you
all
for
being
here,
but
also,
let
me
clarify
that
we're
talking
about
today,
utility
work
zones,
not
I,
think
there's
some
confusion.
There's
some
mixture
going
on
of
road
work,
work
zones,
two
different
things:
road
work
work
zones
tend
to
be
long
term,
whereas
utilities
on
average,
tend
to
be
more
shorter,
spanned
time
frame,
a
much
smaller
area
of
roadways
that
shut
down
or
or
a
lot
of
times
shut
down.
A
It's
just
kind
of
working
on
the
edges
of
the
road,
and
we
wanted
to
find
something
that
works
to
help
protect
our
utility
workers
and
another
thing
I'll
point
out
in
talking
work
zones
in
general,
whether
it's
utilities
or
whereas
Transportation
big
road
projects
is
we
talk
about
the
the
danger
to
the
employees,
that's
out
there
working
and
it
is,
but
without
being
respectful
of
of
the
signage
and
the
the
the
speed
limits
that's
put
in
place
on
these
things.
You
also
become
a
danger
to
the
other
other
motorists.
A
You
know
I've
seen
in
work
zones
and
and
I'm
specifically
here
talking
about
a
road
work,
Zone,
not
a
utility
where,
if
they
were
following
the
speed
limit
due
to
the
work
Zone
that
there
shouldn't,
because
work
zones
end
up
getting
us
in
tight
places.
Sometimes
right,
you
don't
have
the
open
area
that
you
may
normally
have
in
driving,
but
I've
seen
fatalities
happen
that
if
they
were
driving
the
speed
and
that
work
zone
is
posted,
there
shouldn't
be
a
fatality
unless
you've
hit
a
pedestrian
I
mean
you,
you
should
be
driving
slow
enough.
A
That
vehicles
are
colliding
should
be
able
to
withstand
that
on
on
average
and
there's
a
reason.
But
it's
a
it's
it's
quite
frankly,
it's
a
behavioral
problem
that
people
just
do
not
pay
any
attention
and
they
don't
slow
down
when
they're.
Seeing
these
signs,
it's
a
cultural
behavioral
problem
and
we've
got
to
have,
we've
got
to
try
to
find
solutions
to
change
that
mindset
and
make
it
safer
for
everyone,
whatever
that
entails
so
I.
A
Thank
you
all
I
look
forward
to
working
with
you
all
as
we
look
at
ideas
that
we,
as
a
general
assembly
may
be
able
to
do
to
help
work,
to
put
something
in
place
to
protect
your
workers.
Thank
you,
gentlemen.
A
A
One
more
topic
to
take
up,
and
that
is
some
proposed
legislation
that
was
filed
this
past
session
by
representative
Walker
Thomas,
and
we're
going
to
talk
about
Horseshoes
and
and
and
horses
and
the
Damage
that
they're
doing
to
our
Blacktop.
A
D
This
was
brought
brought
upon
us
a
couple
years
ago,
actually
right
when
I
took
office.
A
lot
of
these
are
doing
a
lot
of
damage
to
our
roads
and
we're
going
to
tell
you
some
facts
and
some
of
the
some
of
the
other
studies
that
other
states
have
done,
but
today
we're
looking
for
y'all's
input
as
much
as
as
you're
getting
Knowledge
from
us
too.
We're
we're
going
to
go
ahead
and
do
a
presentation,
but
we're
looking
for
your
impact
of
how
we
want
to
address
this
in
the
future.
D
So
with
that
I'll,
let
my
two
guests
introduce
themselves.
Q
And
good
afternoon
honor
for
me
to
be
here,
my
name
is
Jerry
Gillum
I'm,
the
Christian
County
judge
executive
in
Christian,
County.
J
So
with
that
we'll
get
started
stardom,
something
that
is
an
issue
not
only
in
my
district
that
I
represent,
but
in
many
of
your
districts
as
well
is
the
issue
of
steel
wheels
on
our
roads,
and
so
we've
brought
a
slideshow
of
pictures
to
show
the
damage
that
these
steel
wheels
cause
and
hopefully
to
get
information
out
to
you
all
and
get
suggestions
back
on
some
ways
that
we
can
combat
this
issue
as
it
grows
and
becomes
more
of
a
problem.
So
you'll
see
in
this
first
picture.
J
It's
got
a
level
laid
across
it
and
that's
actually
what
we
call
reading
so
steel
wheels.
The
way
they
cause
damage
to
roads
is
they
rut
the
road
and
create
a
divot,
and
so,
as
you
break
the
surface
of
the
road,
water
begins
to
seep
into
the
road
and
causes
damage,
and
so
Walker
has
done
a
lot
of
research
on
this
issue,
and
so
the
Ohio
Department
of
Transportation
did
a
two-phase
study
on
this,
and
so
in
their
results.
J
They
show
that
routes
that
have
rubber
wheel
traffic
typically
last
about
10
years,
but
on
routes
that
have
still
steady
heavy
steel
wheel.
Use
typically
lasts
only
two
years,
and
so
that
is
pretty
consistent
with
what
I
see
in
Trigg,
County
and
I.
Think
Walker
and
Jerry
also
see
those
issues
as
they
travel
around.
J
The
other
issue
that
they
came
up
with
is
that
these
partial
depth
repairs
we're
talking
about
resurfacing
today
on
your
agenda
resurfacing
these
roads,
it's
about
four
times
more
expensive.
So
as
we
look
at
these
pictures
and
look
at
this
damage,
I
want
you
to
keep
that
in
the
back
of
your
mind
that
we're
not
only
talking
about
an
issue
that
is
a
problem
today,
but
if
we
have
20
years
worth
of
Road
money,
two
years
comes
a
lot
quicker
in
that
20
years.
J
So
moving
forward,
you
can
see
a
better
picture
here
with
the
the
level
right
across
the
ruts.
These
are
recently
resurfaced
roads
and
you
can
see
the
light
strip
and
that
is
typically
traveled
by
Steel
Wheels
and
what
they
cause
same
thing
on
this
slide.
You've
got
recently
resurfaced:
roads,
repatched,
the
pock
marking
those
are
from
horseshoes
and
I.
Think
representative
Walker
brought
an
example
of
that
with
him,
so
we're
passing
that
around.
So
you
all
can
see
the
damage
there.
Q
C
Q
Soon
as
we
get
them
resurfaced
because
the
ones
that
we're
resurfacing
are
the
ones
that
have
the
significant
amount
of
damage
already
on
them,
thus
causing
us
to
resurface
them
and
then
usually
a
day
later,
you
can
already
tell
damage
is
occurring
as
a
result
of
of
these
steel
wheels.
Now
let
me
preface
this
I'm,
not
necessarily
the
buggies
and
the
Transportation
that
are
that
are
on
these
roads,
for
me
are
not
causing
their
yes
they're,
causing
damage.
Q
But
my
concern
are
the
wagons
and
we've
got
a
video
with
with
some
Convoy
actually
of
some
wagons
that
are
loaded
down
with
commodity,
whether
it
be
pumpkins
or
whatever
that
are
that
are
really
heavy,
and
those
are
what's
really
really
in
my
mind,
causing
the
damage
and
there's
no
Rhyme
or
Reason,
because
you'll
see
some
implements
with
with
rubber
tires
or
rubber
tires.
Sometimes
you'll
see
some
steel
wheels
with
some
kind
of
rubber
overlay
it
may
they
may
not
be
inflated,
but
at
least
there
is
some
rubber
present.
Q
That's
not
causing
significant
damage,
but
some
of
these,
especially
the
wagons
that
are
used
for
transportation,
transporting
the
Commodities,
whether
it
be
the
pumpkins
or
whatever
the
ones
that
you
see
that
are
in
my
Minds,
causing
the
significant
significant
damages
to
a
road
so
I
know
in
Christian
County
we
will
receive
the
Amish
communities
in
our
community
will
will
actually
bring
us
a
check
about
every
December
and
present
our
treasure
and
that's
usually
about
ten
thousand
dollars,
and
that
may
be
broken
up
between
two
or
three
orders.
Q
We've
got
them
pretty
well
scattered
across
Christian
County,
and
but
we
spent
about
1.5
million
a
year
in
resurfacing.
So
when
we
really
compare
those
numbers
yeah,
we
appreciate
their
recognition
of
the
of
the
issues
that
they're
causing
to
our
roads.
But
ten
thousand
dollars
when
our
overall
resurfacing
is
1.5
million,
is,
is
there's
a
big
difference
in
between
so
again
I'm
looking
for
solution,
but
most
certainly
the
the
steel
wheels
themselves
that
are
hooked
to
the
wagons
is
what
I
see
not
only
damaging
roads.
Q
But
of
course,
as
Squire
Baker
pointed
out
they're
running
out,
it
also
causes
water
to
pool
and
hydroplaning
and
a
safety
issues.
In
my
my
eyes,
if
any
of
y'all
travel
between
Hopkinsville
and
Bowling
Green
on
U.S
68,
especially
between
Hopkinsville
and
Fairview,
I'd,
encourage
you
to
look
at
the
shoulder
of
the
road.
It's
significantly
probably
three
or
four
inches
of
dug
out
where
there's
a
path
that
that
they
travel.
D
That
that
path
is
so
predominant
now
that
when
I
was
coming
back
the
other
day,
they're
no
longer
traveling
in
the
side,
medium
anymore,
they're
traveling
in
the
slow
lane,
because
it's
so
rough
on
them
also
so
this
next
one
sure
yeah,
the
the
picture
there
says
says
a
lot.
It
says
please,
no
horse
buggies
other
use
other
drive.
Thank
you.
Please,
no
steel
wheels
that
is
a
and
someone
in
the
Amish
faith
that
just
had
his
driveway
paved
so
and
then
this
next
video
is
is
very
Telltale.
You
can
see
I
I.
Q
P
E
J
So
if
you
look
at
the
video
on
this
one,
you
can
see
the
distinct
white
line.
That
is
what
we
call
the
rutting.
That
is
where
the
steel
wheels
are
actually
actively
cutting
into
the
pavement
into
the
surface.
That's
what
causes
so
much
damage
and
this
is
actually
crossing
the
Christian
County
tree
County
Line,
and
this
is
every
day
for
us
folks.
This
is
what
we
see
on
our
roads.
J
This
is
not
just
a
County
Road
issue,
but
it's
a
state
issue,
and
so
last
year
the
legislation
that
we
put
together
was
it
was
very
vague,
and
so
we
wanted
to
come
before
you
guys,
as
a
joint
committee,
to
hear
some
input
have
some
questions
and
answer
time
and
just
see.
We
would
like
to
see
something
move
forward,
whether
it
is
a
registration,
a
buggy
tax,
even
as
far
as
if
we
want
to
take
it
as
far
as
outlawing
steel
wheels.
J
D
I
do
want
to
state
that
right
now
in
as
of
2022,
there
is
around
86
000
Amish
in
Pennsylvania
in
Ohio
has
81
000
Indiana
at
62
000.
they
are
they've
been
trying
to
pass.
Some
legislation
to
Pennsylvania
has
not
been
able
to
I.
Think
Ohio
did
it's
in
the
form
of
more
of
a
buggy
tax
But
there
again
and
they
have
a
registry
I
believe
in
comparison
right
now,
Kentucky
has
14
835.
D
Missouri
has
around
fifteen
thousand,
so
those
we
don't
have
as
many
as
the
other
states,
but
this
is
this
is
a
problem
I
think
we're
going
to
be
facing
in
the
future.
So,
like
I
said
we
wanted
to
present
to
you
all.
This
has
been
something
that
I've
heard
when
I
first
got
here
seven
years
ago.
Someone
mentioned
that
this
has
been
a
problem
going
on
for
years.
So
is
this
a
time
we
can
finally
start
addressing
it
or
looking
for
some
feedback
from
you,
except
for
Randy
every
because
he's
smiling
over
here.
D
A
Thank
you
all
for
for
coming
and
presenting
today
and
and
I
know,
it's
I
know
it's
an
issue
I'm
not
unfamiliar
with
your
area.
I
spent
some
time
living
and
working
down
in
that
area
at
one
in
my
former
life,
so
not
unfamiliar
with
it,
but
but
I
guess
one
question
and
you
may
or
may
not
know
the
answer
to
this.
Why
are
they
using
Steel
Wheels
I
mean
is,
does
it?
Is
it
serving
a
purpose
for
them
as
far
as
their
farming
and
those
type
of
things
I
mean
steel?
D
D
A
R
Thank
you
for
being
here
and
my
first.
My
question
was
going
to
look
what's
Best
Practices
I
know,
there's
other
communities
that
have
had
similar
issues,
probably
at
a
much
higher
level.
So
you
kind
of
talked
about.
Ohio
has
started
moving
forward.
I,
look
at
maybe
the
spirit
impact
it
would
have.
Obviously,
if
there'd
be
constitutional
challenges,
so
we
don't
want
to
walk
first
face
first
into
that
one.
R
If
we
have
other
states
that
could
potentially
you
know
we
could
learn
from
and
then
my
I
was
thinking
more
of
like
on
the
line
of
like
the
Slicks
that
are
that
are
not
inflated
that
they
potentially
would
create
an
alternative
to
be
able
to
purchase
and
see
if
they're
even
available.
R
You
know
that
that
may
be
something
for
the
market
to
be
able
to
look
at
so
there'd
be
something
out
there.
That
might
be
a
fair
compromise,
preserves
the
roads
but
also
addresses
their
religious
issue.
J
The
the
study
we
have
from
the
Ohio
Department
of
Transportation
had
two
faces,
so
the
first
phase
was
to
study
the
impact
that
steel
wheels
have
on
roads
and
the
second
phase
was
to
study
different
Road
mixes
that
they
could
use
and
they
even
went
as
far
as
to
look
at
alternative
horseshoes
for
horses
and
the
impact
that
would
have
on
the
animal.
So
we
have
resources
available
and
that
other
states
are
utilizing
that
maybe
we
can
look
into.
D
Ohio
did
after
the
study,
though
they
were
the
ones
that
they
actually
passed,
something
where
they
would
register
the
buggies.
They
would
keep
track
of
everything
and
then
I
think
60
percent
of
the
went
to
the
county.
30
percent
went
to
the
township
and
then
I
think
10
percent
was
allocated
to
the
States
because
they
do
use
multiple
surfaces.
So
a
lot
of
us.
D
You
know
we
realize
and
see
that
we
see
that
the
two
wheel
buggies
with
you
know
a
couple:
that's
sitting
there
and
they're
going
to
church
or
to
you
know
something
like
that.
Obviously
they're
doing
some
damage,
but
maybe
not
as
much
damage
as
the
ones
that
we're
really
bothered
with
that
weigh.
You
know
four
to
eight
tons
that
are
going
down
the
road
and
things
like
that,
so
it
might
be
as
simple
as
maybe
putting
a
weight
limit.
You
know
sitting
there
saying
that
anything.
D
Q
O
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
you
know
you
know,
I
agree,
you
know
and
it
kind
of
struck
me
I
mean
I.
I'd
say
that
was
some
talented
driving
I've.
O
Turn
that
thing
with
that
tractor
I
mean
that's
kind
of
amazing
in
a
way,
but
I
mean
you
know
what
I
did
notice
is.
It
seemed
like
most
of
the
engines
that
were
being
operated
by
the
people
were
did
in
fact
have
rubber
wheels,
so
I
mean
I,
understand
that
they
may
consider
tires
a
you
know,
or
these
steel
wheels
of
21st
century
hair
jacket
or
something
to
to
profess
their
faith.
But
on
the
other
hand,
I
can
understand
the
point
of
it.
O
Putting
Folks
At
Risk
did
Ohio
adopt
something
similar
to
what
you're
proposing
or
are
they
still
debating
the
issue.
D
Yes,
as
of
2022,
they
passed
a
help
cover
the
maintenance
costs.
The
Ohio
Amish
steering
committee
in
2003
to
collect
the
fee
currently
is
50
per
buggy
and
open
card
annually.
This
funding
is
distributed
by
the
Ohio
Department
of
Transportation,
with
10
percent
going
to
the
state,
sixty
percent
County.
So
that's
what
they've
done
they're
the
only
ones
Pennsylvania
tried
to
pass
something
I,
think
it
got
through
the
house
but
didn't
get
through
the
Senate.
So
and
of
course
they
have
the
largest
population.
O
M
O
And
you
know
there
are
a
few
Amish
back
home
and
they're
generally
very,
very
law-abiding
citizens,
I
mean,
as
far
as
you
know,
I
mean
maybe
give
them
the
option
of
either.
You
know
put
rubber
tires
on
or
refine.
Would
that
be
some
some
option
or
pay
one.
J
Way
or
the
other,
we
are
open
to
options
to
answer
your
question
about
the
the
tires:
it's
pneumatic
tires
that
they
really
oppose.
It's
the
air
and
the
tire
that
make
the
ride
comfortable.
As
far
as
we
can
tell
there
shouldn't
be
any
pushback
to
just
adding
rubber
or
rubber
tread
to
the
tires.
G
A
O
A
And
then
I
would
point
out.
I
know
that
the
the
terminology
that's
been
used
for
individual
groups.
They
just
happen
to
be
it's
not
because
of
their
faith.
They
just
happen
to
be
the
ones
that
tend
to
use
this
type
of
will
more
than
others.
So
don't
want
anyone
to
think
that
this
topic,
or
this
conversation
is
going
on
because
of
someone's
Faith.
Okay.
M
M
A
Of
who
is
is
utilized
them
representative,
McCool.
E
Thank
you,
Mr
chair,
you
passed
around
a
horseshoe
and
and
on
that
horse
you
had
heart
facing
which
I
believe
is
called
borium
gas
mile
Rock
Castle
County
friend,
to
make.
C
G
E
Me
a
thumbs
up
to
make
sure
I
was
recalling
that
correctly,
that's
on
there
for
a
couple
reasons,
one
to
to
give
it
a
longer
lasting
shoe,
but
also
to
give
it
some
traction,
so
I'm
not
ready
drippable,
unfortunately
I'm
sorry.
But
if
that's
some
consideration,
you
also
have
to
think
about
the
safety
of
the
of
the
horse
and.
B
D
And
this,
and
at
this
time
that's
why
we
thought
we'd
stick
with
just
trying
to
do
something
with
the
steel
wheels.
We
realized
that
those
are
are
causing
some
damage
to
the
the
roads
also,
but
we
I
don't
think
we
want
to
get
into
that.
I
mean
there's
pleasure,
riding
there's.
You
know
all
kinds
of
different
things
that
I
think
that
would
touch
on,
and
we
we
don't
want
to
get
into
that.
It's
it's
just
more
so
I
think
for
the
commercial
use.
D
The
heavy
heaviness
on
these
steel
wheels
that
we
want
to
try
to
address
and
see
how
we
can
do
that.
Thank.
D
A
So
that's
very
good.
Thank
you
and
judge
magistrate.
Thank
you
all
for
being
here
today
appreciate
your
presentation.
I.
Think
that
wraps
up
our
agenda
for
today,
I
do
want
to
announce
that
our
next
Transportation
committee
meeting
will
be
held
on
Tuesday
October
17th
at
1pm.
In
this
same
room.
If
there's
nothing
else,
then,
if
I
can
get
a
motion
to
adjourn
motion
to
adjourn,
Soul
moved.