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From YouTube: Budget Review Subcommittee on General Government, Finance, Personnel, and Public Retirement (7-7-21)
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A
Good
morning
and
like
to
welcome
everyone
here
for
our
July
budget
review
subcommittee
meeting
on
General
government,
Finance
personnel
and
public
retirement
before
we
get
begin,
I
would
like
to
yield
to
our
Senate
co-chair
Senator,
Mike
neems
and
for
a
moment.
B
C
You
chairman,
I'd,
like
to
take
this
time
to
we've
lost
a
great
colleague
of
ours,
Senator
Tom
Buford.
He
was
in
the
Senate
since
1991..
He
represents
the
counties
of
Fayette
Jared,
Jasmine,
Mercer
and
Washington,
and
I'd
like
to
have
a
moment
of
silence
for
him.
A
Thank
you
Senator
once
again,
I'd
like
to
say
thank
you
all
for
being
here,
we
will
begin
I'll
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
row.
Please.
D
F
D
D
A
In
the
committee
brand,
thank
you
next,
we'll
move
on
to
approval
of
minutes
for
June
may
I
have
a
motion
on
approval.
H
A
I
Can
you
hear
me
now?
Yes,
thank
you
good
morning,
chairman
and
persons
of
the
subcommittee,
thank
you
for
allowing
us
to
be
here
today.
My
name
is
gerina
weathers
cabinet
secretary
for
personnel,
and
we
are
going
to
ask
if
someone
can
help
us
with
the
volume
we're
getting
a.
A
A
A
A
J
Test
good,
much
better.
Okay,
thank
you.
So
much
appreciate
your
patience.
Good
morning.
My
name
is
Mary
Elizabeth
Bailey
and
I'm.
The
commissioner
of
the
Department
of
Human
Resources
Administration
within
Personnel
cabinet,
very
happy
today
to
be
here
and
to
present
on
the
executive
branch,
Compensation
Plan
and
our
Recruitment
and
Retention
initiatives,
so
I
want
to
go
ahead
and
get
started.
J
J
First,
the
statute
requires
us
to
develop
the
schedule
using
a
nationally
recognized
system
for
evaluating
job
requirements
and
second,
the
job
classification
must
determine
the
requirements
of
each
job
classification
by
using
factors
such
as
and
I'm
going
to
read
these
to
you
because
they're
important
as
we
go
on
through
the
presentation
but
knowledge,
skill
effort,
responsibility,
accountability,
problem
solving
discretion,
Challenge
and
working
conditions,
and
those
are
that
is
important
to
know.
Because
often
you
know
we
get
calls
from
employees
or
from
agencies
and
they're
wanting
to
develop.
J
You
know
they're
wanting
to
create
a
job
classification
and
pay.
It
x
amount,
and
we,
you
know
we
just
don't
create
based
upon
a
request.
It
has
to
be
based
upon
these
factors
when
you
create
a
job
classification
in
how
we
do
that
is
as
required
in
the
statute.
The
Personnel
cabinet
has
contracted
for
the
past
30
years
with
what
we
call
who
we
call
the
hay
group.
J
They
are
now
referred
to
as
corn
fairy,
and
we
use
what
is
called
the
hay
methodology
to
create
our
salary
schedule
and
our
Compensation
Plan,
and
we
have
1200
job
classifications
right
now
for
the
Merit
system
and
we,
those
job
classifications,
are
evaluated
periodically
by
the
Personnel
cabinet
to
ensure
that
we
are
still
compensating
accurately
according
to
the
hay
methodology
and
what
it
is
is
when
we
create
a
job
classification,
those
factors
that
go
into
it,
whether
it's
as
I
said
that's
required
in
statute,
skill,
responsibility,
accountability,
problem
solving,
etc.
J
Those
are
given
points
and
when
those
points
are
added
up,
it
equals
up
to
a
grade
on
our
pay
scale.
That's
how
it's
determined.
What
grade
fits
with?
What
job
classification
that
an
employee
resides
in
okay,
okay,
obviously,
majority
of
the
employees
within
the
executive
branch
do
fall
within
the
Merit
system,
and
all
employees
are
assigned
to
a
job
classification
according
to
their
duties
and
responsibility.
Each
job
classification
in
the
classified
service
and
some
in
the
unclassified
service
is
assigned
to
one
of
the
pay
grades
in
the
salary
schedule.
J
Each
pay
grade
has
a
minimum
and
a
midpoint
wage
and
I'm
going
to
explain
why
that's
important
in
just
a
minute
and
then
under
the
Merit
system,
salaries
among
employees
May
differ,
and
that
is
based
upon
an
employee's
job
history.
Oftentimes
we
get
inquiries
from
employees,
saying
that
you
know
I'm
an
admin,
Spec
3
and
I
make
x
amount,
and
my
co-worker
is
also
in
that
same
job
classification
and
he
or
she
might
make
in
makes
more
than
me,
and
the
reason
why
is
maybe
they
have
been?
J
You
know
they
have
more
years
of
service
in
state
government.
Maybe
you
know
they
promoted
into
the
job
instead
of
reclassing
or
maybe
they
transferred
and
and
where
they
started
previously,
they
made
more
money.
So
you
know
there
is
a
lot
of
factors
that
go
into
it,
but
the
thing
about
it
is,
as
I
talked
about
on
the
compensation
schedule,
that
each
classification
has
a
minimum
and
midpoint
of
the
grade
and
that's
important
because,
as
you
see
here,
this
is
our
current
salary
schedule.
J
Okay
and
it's
effective,
June
1st
2019
to
current
and
I'm
going
to
explain
this
on
this.
It
shows
the
pay
grade.
You
probably
can't
see
here,
yes,
the
pay
grade,
and
then
you
have.
We
have
in-state
government
two
work
weeks
that
employees
are
assigned
to
they're
either
a
37.5
hour,
employee
or
40
hour,
employee,
okay
and
they
are
assigned
when
they're
in
the
job
classification,
that
job
classification
is
assigned
to
grade
on
the
pay
scale.
As
you
see,
there
is
an
entry
level
wage
and
a
midpoint
wage.
J
So
that
is
the
difference,
and
so
we
recently
increased
in
2019,
we
adjusted
the
salary
schedule
to
increase
the
midpoint
wage.
So
that
way,
when
you
know
when
agencies
have
the
funding
and
have
the
ability
to
appoint,
you
know
individuals
into
job
classifications
into
positions.
They
have
the
ability
to
point
up
to
the
midpoint
wage.
Well,
we
increase
that
to
try
to
stay
competitive.
J
You
know
with
the
private
sector
and
our
local
governments
out
there,
but
that
is
not
a
guarantee,
because
not
all
agencies
have
the
budget
to
support
bringing
in
all
individuals
at
a
midpoint
wage.
In
addition
to
that,
another
factor
in
our
compensation
regulation
is,
if
you
appoint
an
individual
at
that
midpoint
wage
or
any
wage
in
between,
and
you
have
other
employees
in
that
same
job
County
in
that
same
job
classification
that
have
a
similar
combination
of
Education
experience.
J
You
also
have
to
raise
those
individuals
to
that
same
amount
of
that
new
appointee,
so
it
can,
it
can
be
very
costly
to
an
agency.
That's
why
the
midpoint
way
wage
is
not
a
requirement.
Only
the
entry
level
is
a
requirement.
Okay
might
be
a
little
confusing,
but
we
can
answer
questions
in
a
minute.
But,
as
you
see
another
point,
I
want
to
make
the
entry
level
of
our
salary
schedule
has
not
been
adjusted
since
2007..
J
That
really
is
becoming
detrimental
to
recruitment
in
the
executive
branch
for
our
state
employees
and
as
you
you
know
well
know,
the
cost
of
living
has
increased
over
the
last
14
years,
but
our
entry
level
wage
that
we
are
employing
people
in
into
these
job
classifications
has
not,
and
and
without
additional
funding,
we're
not
able
to
raise
those
minimum
rates
and
a
lot
of
time
when
we
recruit
agencies
may
not
be
able
to
afford
anything
above
that
entry
level.
So
it
it
becomes.
J
You
know
it
it
dampers,
their
ability
hinders
them
from
being
able
to
bring
in
the
best
and
the
brightest
at
certain
times.
In
addition
to
that,
our
last
annual
increment
was
in
2015
and
we
have
received
no
increments
in
nine
of
the
last
11
years
when
a
one
percent
increment
was
proposed
in
the
governor's
budget.
But,
as
you
know,
that
was
not
passed,
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
that
in
the
next
slide.
So
again,
this
is
the
continuation
of
our
salary
schedule
it.
It
ranges
from
grades
5
to
22.
J
Challenges
that
are
facing
the
executive
branch,
as
you
see
here
over
the
last
20
years,
we
have
decreased
the
employee
count
by
26
percent.
We
had
40
000
employees
in
2001,
and,
as
of
now,
we
have
around
twenty
thousand
twenty
nine
thousand
five
hundred.
J
Some
of
this
is
due
to
Natural,
attrition
and
technology,
and
we
have
you
know,
there's
been
efficiencies
that
have
been
gained
and
technology
has
increased
the
ability
to
do
more
per
se
with
less,
but
on
that
same
count
because
of
budgetary
reductions
that
we
have
taken
over
many
years,
we
have
had
to
you
know,
reduce
the
employee
count,
because
we
can
no
longer,
you
know,
afford
what
we
could
in
2001..
J
So
with
that
said
again,
employees
are
doing
more
more
within
their
same
job
classification,
which
doesn't
mean
that
they
receive
any
more
money
for
doing
that
additional
work.
The
only
additional
compensation
that
they
would
be
eligible
to
receive
in
that
case
is
their
annual
increments,
which
we
haven't
received,
and
so,
therefore,
it
also
makes
it
very
difficult
for
agencies
and
for
the
Personnel
cabinet
to
retain
these
employees
if,
if
they're
not
getting
any
type
of
increase.
J
In
addition
to
that,
our
employee
turnover
has
increased
by
eight
percent
over
the
last
eight
years.
Some
of
our
job
classifications
have
a
high
turnover
rate,
especially
in
our
correctional
officer
series.
Most
of
you
all
probably
know
that
you
hear
that
it's
it's
becoming
very
hard
to
recruit
in
in
some
of
our
job
classifications,.
J
As
far
as
incentives
that
we
can
offer
to
agencies
based
upon
our
compensation
regulation,
we
have
some
and
they're
shown
here
on
the
screen.
I
do
want
to
talk
about
a
couple
of
these
These
are
discretionary
incentives,
they're
they're,
not
anything
that
is
required
or
that
for
agencies
to
give.
There
are
two,
the
last
two
on
the
left
side.
I
do
want
to
talk
about.
These
are
new
the
reclassification
up
to
midpoint
of
the
pay
grade
and
promotion
up
to
midpoint
at
the
pay
grade.
J
These
two
are
recent
changes
we
made
to
our
compensation
regulation
because,
when
I
spoke
earlier
in
the
presentation,
the
only
time
that
an
agency
before
this
rake
change
was
able
to
use
the
salary
scale
from
the
minimum
to
the
midpoint
was
upon
higher.
Okay,
once
an
employee
was
hired,
there
was
nothing.
You
could
really
do
to
adjust
an
employee's
salary
to
go
between
that
range,
and
now
what
we
did
is
we
opened
up
per
se.
J
The
compensation
regulation
for
reclassification
and
promotion
and
prior
the
old
reg
stated
that
on
either
of
these
actions
that
an
employee
would
only
get
five
percent
per
pay
grade
or
the
minimum
of
the
new
grade,
whichever
is
greater
and
now
what
it
says
is
that
agencies
have
the
ability
to
reclass
or
promote
up
to
that
midpoint
range
that
midpoint
salary.
So
it
could
be
more
than
five
percent
per
pay
grade
and
it's
obviously
more
than
the
minimum
of
the
pay
grade.
J
So
those
are
those
have
been
two
very
successful
incentives
that
agencies
have
been
able
to
use.
In
addition,
on
the
right
hand,
side
we
offer
several
premiums
that
agencies
can
also
utilize
and
shift,
and
weekend
is
a
very
common
in
multilingual
as
well
two
new
ones
that
we
have
created.
There
is
locality
and
critical
position.
Premiums.
Locality
has
been
very
successful
because
we
are
able
in
job
classifications
in
certain
counties.
J
We
have
recently
been
doing
this
in
our
correctional
officer
series:
the
security
Series
in
the
LaGrange
area,
because
it's
obviously
very
hard
to
recruit
there
being
next
to
Oldham
and
Jefferson,
and
whereas
maybe
in
Prestonsburg
at
the
southeast,
State
Correctional
Complex,
you
know
they
do
not
have
a
problem
recruiting
there
and
employing
individuals,
so
the
locality
premium
has
been
very
successful
and
we're
seeing
agencies
start
to
use
that
more
and
more.
In
addition,
we
also
created
the
critical
position
premium.
This
premium
allows
agencies.
J
J
Me
for
nine
recruitment
initiatives
in
2017,
the
Personnel
cabinet
started
discussing
and
really
looking
at
what
we
were
doing
for
Recruitment
and
how
you
know
what
was
going.
What
is
our
story?
How
are
we
going
to
become
an
employer
of
choice
in
the
Commonwealth?
We
are
the
largest
employer.
We
have
a
wide
range
of
jobs
to
offer
that
our
citizens,
and
so
we
went
through
and
with
two
initiatives.
One
was
a
rebranding
effort
and
two
was
we
procured
a
new
talent
management
system,
it's
a
Cornerstone,
on-demand
product
and
we
coined
it.
We
termed
it.
J
We
call
it
my
purpose,
because
every
employee
needs
to
have
a
purpose
right.
Every
person
has
a
purpose
for
their
life
and
for
their
job
and
to
have
a
career,
and
so
we
we,
the
system,
is
called
my
purpose.
It
encompasses
recruitment
how
you
apply
to
a
state
job,
how
your
application
process
it
made
it
a
lot
more
efficient.
A
lot
of
comments
that
we
heard
from
citizens
is
that
when
they
applied
to
state
jobs,
they
could
didn't
know
where
they
were
in
the
process.
J
J
Obviously,
we
we
first
of
all
only
post
vacancies
that
we
intend
to
fill
number
one
and
then
two
in
this
in
our
new
recruitment
system,
an
applicant
is
able
to
see
where
they
are
in
the
process
that
we've
received
their
application,
that
they're
being
considered
by
the
agency,
maybe
they've
been
called
for
an
interview,
so
it's
been
very
well
received
for
that.
In
addition,
we
it
the
system
also
has
a
performance
module
that
is
electronic.
Previously
it,
our
performance
evaluation
system
was
all
paper-based
and
2020
January.
J
Just
in
time
for
the
pandemic,
we
went
live
with
electronic
evaluations,
which
we
had
no
idea
how
successful
that
was
going
to
be
and
how
needed
that
would
be
during
the
pandemic,
and
so
you
know,
supervisors
were
able
to
steal.
Although
that
you
know
a
lot
were,
teleworking
were
able
to
still
communicate
with
their
employees
on
their
expectations
and
their
duties
and
how
they
were
doing
so.
It
was
very
successful
and
the
last
part
of
that
system
is
a
learning
module.
J
We
have
what
we
call
Commonwealth
U
and
it
has
over
1300
job
courses
in
there
training
courses
that
an
employee
can
take
for
personal
and
professional
development.
So
it's
been
very
successful
in
addition
to
that,
we
rebranded
and
came
up
with
a
tagline
for
recruitment.
It's
come
for
a
job
stay
for
a
career,
make
a
difference
for
a
lifetime
and
that's
what
we
want
to
do
to
employ
individuals
that
will
make
a
difference
to
the
citizens
of
the
Commonwealth.
We
also
expanded
our
social
media
presence.
J
You
know
this
day
and
age
if
you're
not
on
social
media,
you're
going
to
be
left
behind
so
we're.
You
know
we're
on
Facebook
advertising,
jobs
and
Twitter.
We
also
have
a
contract
with
LinkedIn,
which
is
the
biggest
you
know,
recruitment
platform
out
there,
so
we
have
all
of
our
cabinets,
have
recruiter
licenses
and
are
able
to
post
jobs
and
are
able
to
search
linkedin's
complete
database
for
applicants
to
encourage
them
to
apply.
That
has
been
very
successful.
J
In
addition
to
that,
we
are
very
active
for
veterans
on
our
two
military
installations
in
Kentucky,
very
proud
of
that.
We
also
have
in
statute
and
interview
preference
for
veterans
and
their
spouses,
which,
if
that
will
give
them
the
ability
to
initially
have
an
interview
for
any
job
that
they
qualify
for.
In
addition,
our
office
of
diversity,
equality
and
training
have
been
very
active
in
community
organizations
for
minority
Recruitment
and
recruitment
in
general,
for
the
Commonwealth
I'm
very
excited
about
this
expanded
role
that
they
have
taken
and
how
they
are
getting
out
into
our
communities.
J
Moving
on
for
retention
initiatives,
as
you
all
saw,
we
did
update
the
salary
schedule
to
increase
the
midpoint
and
we
update
our
regular
our
regulations,
as
you
all
saw,
to
be
able
to
promote
and
reclass
up
to
midpoint,
hoping
that
that
will
help
as
well.
Obviously,
we
offer
health
and
life
and
we
have
a
very
robust.
You
know
Wellness
programs
that
we're
very
proud
of
I
know
our
our
Commissioner
of
employee
insurance
has
comes
over
here
and
and
does
testify
on
our
health
plan
and
I'm
very
proud
of
that.
J
We
also
offer
flexible
work
schedules
even
prior
to
the
pandemic.
We
had
telecommuting
and
flexible
work
schedules
and
compressed
work
schedules
and
we
offered
a
lot
of
options
for
employees
to
use.
Obviously
that
was
very
you
know,
utilized
during
the
pandemic,
I'm
glad
that
we
had
already
had
that
established.
J
So
so
we
were
able
to
transition
into
a
remote
Workforce,
primarily
during
the
pandemic,
and
since
then,
actually
this
week
we
have
employees
have
started
entering
back
into
the
buildings.
All
agencies
have
have
created
a
returned
to
building
plan,
not
returned
to
work
because
we've
been
working
the
entire
time,
but
agencies
have
are
returning
back
in
with
again
utilizing.
You
know,
hybrid
schedules
of
you
know.
Employees
may
work
a
couple
of
days
in
the
office
and
a
couple
days
at
home,
full-time
in
the
office.
J
They
might
work
at
compressed
work
schedule,
so
lots
of
different
options
that
we
can
give
employees
to
help
retain
them.
Obviously,
we
have
a
lot
of
leave
options,
as
you
all
are
very
well
aware.
We
have
again
many
different
programs
that
we
offer
to
our
employees
adoption
assistants.
We
have
in
a
very
good
employee
assistance
program
that
was
definitely
utilized
during
the
pandemic,
with
so
much
isolation
and
anxiety
over
covid
that
that
was
definitely
very
utilized
and
very
needed
in
our
Workforce.
J
We
have
also
created
a
personal
cabinet,
app
phone
app
I,
encourage
you
all
to
download
it.
This
is
a
way
that
we
are
able
to
communicate
to
employees,
especially
those
employees
that
don't
have
a
computer.
You
know
our
highway
equipment,
operators
or
firefighters,
or
somebody
like
that
are
Park
workers.
If
they
have,
we
are
able
to
let
them
know
if
you
know,
maybe
during
inclement
weather,
that
we're
going
to
be,
you
know,
closing
a
building
or
that
we're
going
to
be
closing
an
office
or
any
type
of
emergency.
J
J
So
with
all
that
said,
you
know
we
are
trying
very
hard
to
continue
to
create
programs
and
initiatives
for
the
for
our
employees,
to
you
know,
keep
them
motivated
and
keep
them
growing
within
their.
You
know,
position
and
in
their
workplace
for
the
mission,
but
unless
we
are
able
to
increase
their
salaries,
there's
just
no
way
that
we
are
going
to
retain
employees
for
a
career
here
in
the
Commonwealth.
It's
just
becoming
more
and
more
difficult.
I
And
I
just
wanted
to
add
it's
been
a
very
interesting
16
or
17
months,
and
what
we
have
found
is
that,
although
it's
been,
it's
been
a
little
bit
different.
It's
also
given
us
an
opportunity
to
understand
what
we
need
to
embrace
with
our
50
000
state
employees
and
when
you're,
looking
at
4.4
million
people
in
the
citizen,
citizens
in
Kentucky
and
then
six
percent
of
those
are
even
on
our
health
insurance,
Kentucky,
employee
health
insurance.
I
The
importance
of
embracing
everyone,
just
not
just
with
a
certain
area,
we're
talking
about
mental
health,
we're
talking
about
making
sure
that
we
keep
our
employees
right
here
and
I
will
personally
say
that
state
employees
are
one
of
the
greatest
people
that
I've
ever
worked
with,
and
the
importance
of
not
just
recruitment,
but
also
retention.
So
this
information
that
we're
sharing
with
you
today
is
critical
and,
and
it's
something
that
we've
worked
actually
together
for
a
very
long
time,
I
feel
like
it's.
A
Thank
you
Madam
Secretary
and
commissioner,
we
appreciate
it.
So
much
of
you
being
here,
we
do
have
questions.
I
want
to
begin
on
your
updated
salary
schedule
and
I'm.
A
Here
on
your
updated
salary
schedule
would
that
come
into
effect
of
I
I
know?
Are
you
seeing
situations
where
new
hires
are
coming
in
making
as
much,
if
not
more
than
current
employees?
In
that
same
grade
level
of
position,
I
know
I've
had
that
brought
to
my
attention
and
would
that
impact
that.
J
Not
necessary
it
could
possibly,
but
but,
as
I
explained
before,
if
someone
comes
into
a
job,
if
you
hire
a
new
employee
into
a
job
classification
in
a
county,
you
have
to
look
at
it
job,
classification
and
County,
and
there
are
other
employees
in
that
agency
in
that
county.
In
that
same
job
classification,
that
has
a
similar
combination
of
education
and
experience
than
those
employees
also
have
to
be
raised
up
to
that
new
employee
salary.
A
As
I
said,
I
know
I've
had
that
brought
to
my
attention
hero
for
actually
over
the
spring.
So
that's
something
I
would
like
to
take
a
look
at
turnover
rate
for
across
all
agencies.
What
is
our
turnover
rate
here
within
for
our
state
employees
as.
A
A
Slide
does
do
you
have
any
anything
in
effect
that
you're
working
on
to
help
on
it
to
to
prevent
that
turnover?
Is
there
anything
in
particular
that
you're
that
you're
looking
at
that
would
retain
those
employees
so
that
we're
not
losing
them.
J
J
I
And
and
chairman
I
just
wanted
to
interject
that
you're
looking
at
an
increase
since
2012,
so
it's
been
slow.
But
it's
also
something
that's
indicative
that
we're
seeing
in
the
private
sector,
especially
if,
if
you
have
employees
that
are
not
getting
incremental,
raises
on
a
regular
basis
and
that's
just
compared
to
any
other
state
employees
in
other
states
that
we're
seeing.
A
Are
you
are
we
also
experiencing
within
our
labor
market
people
applying
for
positions
here
for
the
within
the
Commonwealth?
Are
we
seeing
the
same
thing
that
our
private,
the
industry
or
private
business
owners
are
experiencing
now
with
job
postings
and
no
one
applying
for
those
positions?
Are
you
running
into
that
right
now,
where
a
lack
of
people
actually
applying
for
positions.
J
And
but
it
it
was
something
in
our
job
and
there
are
certain
job
classifications
and
in
certain
counties
that
yes,
but
I
have
not
seen
an
increase
in
that
since
the
pandemic.
I
have
not
seen
that,
like,
like
the
private
sector.
Has
you
know
we
have
always
had
a
problem,
and
you
know
it's
been
hard,
like
I,
said,
to
recruit
correctional
officers
to
recruit
a
lot
of
our
maintenance
and
trades,
and
also
our
skilled
laborers.
We
have
cooks
and.
J
Nurse
nurses,
Engineers,
you
know
we
we
struggle,
we
are.
There
are
in
certain
areas,
especially
in
our
veterans,
centers
and
our
veterans,
homes,
nursing
homes.
They
have
a
hard
time,
recruiting
nurses,
we.
We
are
really
struggling
in
the
Commonwealth
with
that
right
now
there
are
some
classifications
that
are
not
seeing
an
issue
at
all.
We
have
plenty
of
applicants
on
on
our
registers,
but
there
are
other
other
job
classifications
that
are
definitely
struggling.
We
saw
that
before
the
pandemic,
and
it's
even
you
know
it's
continuing.
A
Now,
as
I
said,
I
know
from
when
I
hear
from
from
the
private
sector
of
the
issues
they're
experiencing
right
now
with
job
postings,
no
one
applying
for
the
jobs
and
I
know
I've
had
individuals
tell
me
they
saw
the
job,
the
Market
Drive
in
back
in
January
as
she
started,
seeing
tax
refunds
and
then,
as
we
were,
seeing
more
money
come
from
from
the
federal
land
right
there.
So
I
have
wondered
about
that
right
there,
how
that
was
impacting
the
state.
A
I
know
the
governor
has
offered
to
put
the
fifteen
hundred
dollar
bonus
in
play,
and
are
we
seeing
I'm
not
hearing
anyone
from
the
private
sector,
saying
they're,
hearing
more
people
applying
for
jobs
at
this
point?
So
I
don't
know
if
that's
been
an
increase,
we
do
have
questions.
First,
I
want
to
begin
with
representative
bratcher,
who
is
remote.
Okay,.
D
Thank
you
chairman,
and
thank
you
guys
for
our
presentation
today
that
what
the
chairman
was
talking
about
kind
of
gets
is
in
my
vein
of
question:
do
you
guys
coordinate
with
the
unemployment
office?
It
seems
like
we're
paying
people
to
be
on
unemployment,
with
this
Federal.
C
D
D
J
J
They
know
how
to
when
applicants
come
in
or
you
know,
citizens
are
coming
in
to
file
for
unemployment
or
to
look
for
jobs.
They
are
also
trained
out
there
to
to
assist
them
with
logging
on
to
our
system
and
to
filling
out
an
application
into
and
hiring.
You
know
to
apply
to
those
open
positions,
so
yeah.
I
And
one
of
the
biggest
thank
you
one
of
the
biggest
reasons
why
we
pivoted
I,
guess
you
could
say
we
were
already
going
towards
that
Arena
of
social
media
and
and
being
able
to
try
to
make
sure
that
we're
communicating
as
much
as
we
possibly
can,
with
all
the
cabinets
and
especially
with
Labor
and
and
we've
done,
that
in
a
in
a
big
way
and
we're
still
working
on
it.
I
But
that's
one
of
the
bigger
reasons
why
we've
opened
ourselves
up
a
little
bit
more
to
make
sure
that
people
know
that
there
are
some
areas
that
we
could
fill
in
and
the
difference
with
I
will
share
just
real
quickly,
one
of
the
bigger
differences
with
the
private
sector
and
there's
a
lot
of
similarities.
But
one
of
the
bigger
differences
is
that
we
were
lucky
enough
not
to
have
layoffs
absolutely
and
in
the
private
sector.
I
That's
what
you
were
seeing,
of
course
across
the
across
the
board,
and
we
were
lucky
enough
to
to
not
have
to
do
that.
So
as
far
as
what
Mary
Elizabeth
is
sharing
is
what
we're
looking
for.
You
know,
as
far
as
the
openings
are
going
to
be
a
little
different
because
they're
very
specific,
in
its
trade
and
in
its
area
as
where
the
rest
of
our
estate
employees.
Thank
goodness,
a
lot.
A
lot
of
people
were
not
laid
off,
so
those
hope
there
aren't
any
openings
in
some
in
some
areas.
Right.
Yes,.
K
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
comment
and
then
a
question
Madam
Secretary,
commissioner
Bailey.
Thank
you
all
so
much
for
a
wonderful
presentation,
very
detailed
presentation.
K
So
I'll
get
to
my
question
at
the
end
and
I'm
going
to
lead
up
to
it
and
we
we've
kindly
touched
on
it
here,
just
a
little
bit,
and
that
is
employees
that
are
already
employed
and
then
someone
coming
in
at
a
later
date
and
they're,
making
as
much
or
more
more
than
and
I
get
a
lot
of
calls
on
that
more
than
you
would
realize,
and
it's
not
a
specific
agency.
It's
multiple
agencies.
This
is
occurring
in
and
the
fact
of
the
matter
is
it's
not
Administration
fault.
K
It's!
It's
simply
the
system
we
have
and
I'm
gonna
go
back.
I'm
I'm,
a
protege
of
the
state
system.
You
know,
and
30
years
ago,
over
30
years
ago,
when
I
hired
in
I
was
told
part
of
that
incentive
was
a
five
percent
cost
of
living
raise
each
year,
maybe
got
one
of
those
or
two.
Then
it
went
down
to
a
little
bit
less
a
little
bit
less
a
little
bit
less
and
for
the
last
multiple
years
decade
has
been
zero.
K
So
that
has
brought
us
to
where
we
are
today,
because
even
those
that
started
in
the
minimum,
if
they
were
getting
those,
they
were
incrementing
up.
And
so
you
could
maybe
pay
somebody
a
little
more
and
they
were
still,
but
now
that
that
is
frozen
and
they
may
be
making
the
same
salary
for
10
years.
K
That's
just
the
reality
of
things,
so
we
have
to
have
other
enticements
to
get
people
to
come
to
work,
but
I'm
also
seeing
people
because
of
these
enticements,
like
instead
of
starting
with
the
minimum
salary
that
were
coming
up
closer
to
the
midpoint
or
maybe
even
the
midpoint,
that
people's
leaving
saying
look
I've
been
here
10
years
and
you're,
paying
this
person
as
much
as
me
or
more
than
me,
and
they
don't
find
that
to
be
fair
and
Equitable.
Not
your
all's
fault.
Again.
It's
a
system.
K
Quite
frankly,
we
we've
we
spin
ourselves
into
Oblivion
and
it
started
25
years
ago
and
we've
lost
we've
lost
I,
don't
want
to
say
respect,
but
we've
lost,
who
our
state
employees
are,
that
do
the
jobs
out
here
every
day
and
we're
taking
care
of
every
other
kind
of
program
out
here
there
is,
except
our
state
employees
right
and
so
we've
got
to
find
a
way
to
get
back
into
that
system
of
providing
regular
cost
of
living
increments.
For
these
people,
inflation
has
continued
to
go
up
for
25
years.
K
Yes,
but
their
salaries
have
stayed
stagnant
for
20
for
a
decade.
D
K
D
K
A
time-
and
so
you
know
I,
what
can
we
do?
What
what
do
I
tell
these
people
I've
got
people
that
that
that's
called
me
as
recently
as
last
week,
saying
look
I've
been
here
longer
than
half
the
people
and
I'm
making
the
same
as
or
less
than
people
that
hired
in
that's
younger
than
me
that
higher
than
after
me,
they
didn't
transfer
in
these
were
new
hires
in
the
exact
same
position.
K
So
how
do
we
one
get
these
people
to
understand
because
as
much
as
it's
a
it's
a
large
issue
and
we
can
look
at
it
and
understand,
but
when
you're
the
one
being
impacted
from
it,
it's
a
direct
impact.
How
do
we
get
them
to
understand
that?
Look,
please
bear
with
us.
We
want
to
try
to
help
you
don't
leave
and
go
somewhere
else.
So
just
can
can
y'all
help
me
to
address
that
or
give
me
some
ideas
of
how
we
can
address
that
and
and
you're
right.
K
The
general
assembly
has
to
come
to
realization.
We
really
do
that.
The
time
is
now
that
we've
got
to
step
up
and
we've
got
to
find
monies
I,
don't
care.
If
we
have
to
start
cutting
programs,
we've
got
to
start
paying.
Some
pay
raises
to
our
state
employees
all
across
the
board
to
every
one
of
them
because
we're
losing
them
and
we
cannot
recruit
them.
Yes,
thank
you.
J
Yes,
thank
you,
you're
exactly
right
and
and
it's
you
know
we
have
to
our
state
employees.
We
have
to
invest
in
them.
You
know
they
are
the
ones
that
are
charged
with.
You
know
with
running
these
very
important
programs
that
affect
the
citizens
of
the
Commonwealth
and
providing
these
services,
and
if
we
are
not
attracting
or
retaining
the
best
and
brightest,
then
how
is
that
impacting
our
citizens?
It
is,
and
and
it's
something
that
we
you
know-
I
I,
just
support
upon
you
all
to
we.
J
We
have
to
start
giving
the
incremental
races
because,
as
exactly
what
happens
it,
it
puts
this
major
crunch
on
on
our
compensation
schedule
and
on
our
compensation
regulations
that,
in
reality,
work
really
well
when
people
are
getting
incremental
raises,
but
when
you're
sitting
there
and
you
haven't
received
anything
and
people
are
maybe
in
other
job
classifications
or
other
positions
coming
in
and
making
more
it
becomes.
What
about
me?
J
What
are
you
going
to
do
for
me
and,
and
they
wouldn't
have
that
cause
if
they
were
being
raised
along
the
way
it
just
is
becoming
extremely
difficult.
But
two,
you
know
to
your
point:
it's
you
know
we
we
go
back
to
you
know
we
have
to
follow
the
law,
obviously,
and
you
know-
and
it
and
it's
set
forth
to
ensure
that
those
employees
that
have
that
similar
education
experience
are
making
the
same,
and
sometimes
people
that
are
appointed.
J
They
do
have
more
than
someone
who
has
been
sitting
there
for
a
while,
unfortunately,
and
so
they
are
able
to
to
make
more
that's
very
hard
to
I'm
a
career,
employee,
I've
started
in
95.
I
understand
it
I've
been
I've
been
you
know,
I've
been
a
merit,
employee,
I'm
thankful
to
have
been
in
Human
Resources,
all
this
time
to
have
seen
how
we
have
evolved
and
and
to
I've,
seen
the
impact
on
employees
and
it's
very
difficult,
very
difficult,
I.
Just.
I
We've
received
those
those
same
questions
quite
a
bit
and
the,
and
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
you
said
that
you
see
the
midpoint
range
midpoint
wage,
but
it
it
doesn't
answer
the
actual,
deeper
problem,
which
is
layers
and
layers
of
seeing
great
employees
and
I
I
myself,
almost
almost
20
years
in
state
government
of
the
importance
of
taking
care
of
our
own
monetarily,
there's
nothing
that
can
substitute
that
and
and
and
as
you
can
see,
you've
got
employees
that
stay
regardless,
but
now
what's
happening,
especially
since
we're
in
this
this
world
I
don't
want
to
call
it
a
new
normal,
so
we're
evolving,
we're
just
evolving
and
with
us
to
be
competitive
with
the
private
Market,
things
will
have
to
change,
or
you
will
continue
to
see
what
we
saw
just
a
minute
ago
from
2012
to
today.
K
Absolutely-
and
let
me
add
this,
it's
a
it's
a
two-fold:
it's
twofold:
not
only
in
keeping
pay,
equity
and
retention,
but
also
in
maintaining
a
healthy
pension
system.
K
K
They
won
that
lawsuit,
but
the
fact
of
the
matter
is
when
I
hired,
all
people
didn't
retire
as
soon
as
they
become
eligible.
They
stayed
year
after
year
after
year,
representative
Graham's,
a
a
retired
school
teacher.
He
probably
seen
the
same
thing,
but
they
were
getting
incremental
cost
of
living
adjustments,
and
so
they
had
a
reason
to
stay
longer,
but
the
way
it
as
they
started.
Taking
those
away,
there
becomes
a
Max
point
to
where
okay
I'm
not
going
to
be
any
better
staying
any
longer.
I
may
as
well
go
ahead.
K
Well,
I
figured
mine
up,
and
for
every
year
that
I
stayed.
It
would
take
me
20
years
to
recoup
what
that
I
would
lose
in
that
one
year,
but
man
that
helped
the
system
for
every
year
I
stayed
beyond
my
eligibility
tremendously,
and
so
we've
taken
away
the
cost
of
living
I
think
that
over
the
past
25
years,
we
wouldn't
have
been
in
this
problem
that
we're
facing
today.
K
If
we
had
continued
with
our
regular
cost
of
living,
because
people
would
continue
to
work
and
because
they
they
left,
they
started
finding
other
jobs
because
they
had
maxed
out,
and
so
it's
a
two-fold
situation
here,
not
only
with
retention
and
and
recruitment,
but
also
in
in
supporting
and
keeping
a
healthy
pension
system.
The
longer
we
keep
these
people
working,
the
healthier
that
system
is
going
to
be
and
the
less
time
quite
frankly,
they're
going
to
draw
because
every
year
they
work
longer
is
the
last
of
a
year
they're
going
to
draw
at
the
end.
J
Yes,
a
lot
of
the
you
know
turnover
occurs
within
two
to
five
years
of
employment
and
when
you
know
the
recruiters
that
work
in
my
department
when
they're
going
out-
and
you
know
like
you
know-
I
showed
on
the
screen-
we
have
a
lot
of
programs
and
things
that
we
offer
for
state
employees,
but
you
know
they
want
to
know.
You
know
what
what
is
my
salary?
What
is
going
to
be?
What
are
the
increases
that
you
know
are
going
to
be
afforded
to
me?
How
will
my
salary
increase?
H
The
last
15
years,
where
mostly
nobody's
gotten
raises
increments,
raises.
Certainly
there's
been
a
few
other
things
that
have
happened
in
between
and
this
causes
when
we
just
started
to
touch
toward
this
a
little
bit.
This
causes
a
compact
in
the
whole
pay
scale
system.
So
you
know
it.
Well,
hopefully
everybody
understands,
but
I
don't
know
if
they
do.
H
You
know
whenever
we've
got
pay
grade,
you
know
nine
and
pay
grade
17
or
so
you
know
it's
pretty
much
the
range.
If
you
want
to
be
honest
about
it
and
whenever
these
people
don't
have
increments
going
up
after
you
know,
there's
a
cliff
at
a
certain
point
about
15
years
ago,
where
people
didn't
get
those,
so
those
have
been
there
longer.
They
got
a
few
increments
earlier
than
that
people
that
have
come
since
then
have
not
gotten
increments.
So
you
imagine
this
number
right.
That's
where
we
end
up.
H
You
know
we're
gonna,
give
everybody
five
percent,
I
gotta
admit
when
I'm
doing
the
math
five
percent
is
not
sustainable.
Whoever
had
the
idea
probably
is
a
stupid
idea,
but
my
question
for
you
is:
can
we
have
as
I'm
doing
the
math
I?
Think
two
percent
is
the
number
I've
come
to.
If
we
were
able
to
do
that,
and
if
it
were
able
to
be
done,
you
know
for
an
entire
career,
it
seems
like
it
would
make
sense.
H
It
would
match
track
with
the
cost
of
living
adjustment
that
you
know
we're
seeing
with
private
sector,
at
least
in
my
lifetime.
In
our
recent
history
we
probably
have
you
know
more
inflation
right
now,
but
I'm
just
trying
to
think
of
what
the
number
is
that
makes
sense
and
I
know.
This
is
a
question
that
we
have.
My
first
question
is
for
us
really
as
a
body.
We
have
to
make
a
decision
on
what
we're
going
to
do.
H
Can
we
not
do
something
as
stupid
as
okay,
we're
not
gonna
we're
gonna
suspend
cost
of
living
for
15
years
in
a
row.
You
know
we
have
to.
We
have
to
make
that
decision,
but
have
you
done
any
study
or
calculation
on
increments,
because
some
years
we
get
the
one
percent
and
someone
else
gets
two
percent
and
all
that?
How
does
that
happen
and
who
decides
kind
of
in
your
office
when
you're
looking
at
different
pay
grades?
H
Is
it
job
classifications,
some
that
are
just
keep
getting
left
behind
or
how
does
that
get
sorted
out?.
J
On
okay,
two
parts
as
far
as
the
salary
schedule,
and
in
in
that
that
is
determined
by
the
Personnel
cabinet
setting
of
the
annual
increments
that
you
know,
that
is
something
that
I
would
have
to
defer
to
the
office
of
the
state
budget
director.
To
respond
to
that,
you
know
in
and
so
I
I
agree
with
in
in
the
future.
It's
not
just
annual
increments
that
we
need.
We
also
need
the
funding
to
increase
the
minimum
wage
of
the
salary
schedule.
J
H
Okay,
that
puts
me
right
to
my
second
question,
which
is
more
on
your
office,
not
something
that
we
can
exactly
legislate
here,
but
I
think
it's
important
question
since
we're
you're
right
here,
the
job
classifications,
my
understanding
is
the
Personnel
cabinet
in
your
office
or
somebody
that
works
over
there.
You
know
you
select.
Okay
was
the
education
was
the
experience.
You
know,
that's
not
a
legislative
decision.
H
We
give
that
to
you
guys
to
sort
that
out,
and
there
are
a
number
of
agencies
that
have
similar
style
positions
and
or
a
job
class
that
actually
is
located
in
various
agencies
right.
So,
for
example,
the
Personnel
cabinet
lays
down
how
many
jobs,
what
classifications
and
so
forth.
Here's
an
example
that
I
can
think
of
all
right.
We've
got
10
people
that
are
thirty
thousand
dollar
employees
in
this
agency.
H
J
Well,
that's
where
it
goes
back
to
with
our
Point
factoring
system.
We
have
to
buy
statute
and
use
a
nationally
known
system,
and
so
which
is
hey
and
and
they
and
and
it
is
you
know,
the
statute
also
requires
that
you
know
all
of
those
factors
that
was
stated
responsibility,
accountability,
problem,
solving
skills,
things
like
that
are
looked
at
and,
and
we
have
to
use
that
system,
we
have
to
use
a
system,
and-
and
with
that,
that
equates
to
our
sour
schedule.
I
I'm
and
I
and
Senator
Southworth
I
will
share
that.
What
we're
also
seeing
is
that
you
do
have
less
employees
that
are
working
in
state
government,
so
the
the
idea
of
lessening
that
and
just
paying
them
more
can
become
quite
problematic
because
we're
still
serving
this
industry
of
the
Commonwealth
they're.
Still,
you
know,
from
Department
of
Transportation
to
tourism,
to
labor
to
Personnel
we're
still
here
to
serve
the
public.
So
what
we're
saying
is
that
getting
10
employees
and
turning
them
down?
I
You
know
decreasing
them
down
to
three
and
high
and
giving
them
more.
Money
is
not
necessarily
something
that
we've
actually
looked
at.
It's
not
that
we
couldn't
it's
just
I'm,
just
sharing
with
you
that
from
15
years
ago,
like
you
were
sharing
what
was
going
on
15
years
ago,
there
were
a
lot
more
state
employees
than
we
than
we
have
now.
I
I
mean
we're
down
in
double
digits,
even
in
Personnel
cabinets
small
as
we
are
so
those
are
also
issues
we
want
to
it's
Recruitment
and
Retention,
so
we
we
want
to
keep
our
employees
that
we
have
and
we
want
to
bring
in
even
more
employees.
So
they
can
not
only
work
but
just
enjoy
what
we
have
here
in
state
government.
H
Certainly
and
I'll
close
with
this,
there
are
some
agencies
that
have
too
many
low-paid
employees
that
need
more
professional
expertise.
That
would
you
know
it's
reason.
We
hire
a
thousand
dollar
an
hour
attorneys.
Sometimes
it's
cheaper.
H
So
that's
what
I'm
looking
at
and
then
and
don't
think
that
our
state
systems
set
up
the
correct
way,
and
maybe
we
can
do
something
about
that.
I
think
you
could
also
do
so,
and
we
need
to
maybe
look
at
that.
Another
final
thing
is
in
the
scenario
that
somebody
who,
several
years
ago,
in
order
to
get
raises
for
employees.
H
Maybe
this
is
15
20.,
that
now
there
was
a
movement
in
state
government
to
within
Personnel
cabinet
to
start
requiring
college
degrees,
for
jobs
didn't
really
need
college
degrees,
because
that
was
a
way
to
justify
a
pay
raise
at
the
time.
Just
like
we've
got
all
kinds
of
concocted
ideas.
You
know
we'll
do
midpoint
regulation
we'll
do
we'll
always
come
up
with
ideas:
how
to
adjust
the
salary
schedule
and
call
it
fair.
So
they
added
a
bunch
of
college
degrees
to
a
number
of
different
jobs
that
were
really
more
or
less
an
experienced
thing.
H
H
Why
don't
we
get
the
training
we
need,
regardless
of
whether
it
call
you
know,
has
this
name
or
that
name,
and
so
it
seems
like
to
me,
especially
when
we
require
I'm,
going
to
give
example,
parole
officers
to
have
a
college
degree
and
they're
going
to
make
they're
going
to
start
at
29
000
a
year.
They
can't
even
pay
their
student
loan
much
less
get
rent
so
and
the
college
degree's
got
nothing
to
do
with
the
job.
They
go,
that's
training.
Instead,
the
labor
cabinet,
same
situation,
inspectors
and
so
forth.
H
You
know
it's
not
a
degree
issue.
Is
there
anybody
looking
in
the
Personnel
cabinet
how
to
take
off
some
of
those
college
degree
requirements
on
some
of
these
jobs?
Don't
really
need
it?
It's
not
directly
related
to
where
we
could
actually
employ.
Let's
say
people
coming
out
of
high
school
that
don't
have
debt
that
could
start
at
30.,
and
then
we
could
get
those
increments
going,
and
you
know
they
would
actually
have
a
fruitful
career.
J
J
With
that
said,
we
do
periodically
like
I,
said
and
perform
the
reviews
on
our
entire
job
classification
system.
We
are
currently
actually
undertaking
that
a
review
right
now
we
are
in
the
midst
of
that,
and
that
involves
the
agency
is
very
much
involved.
They
have
the
subject
matter,
experts
to
tell
us
what
is
needed
to
perform
that
job.
In
addition
to
that,
we
have.
J
We
have
substitution
Clauses
on
many
of
our
jobs.
So
if
you
do
not
have
the
education
experience,
we'll
substitute,
we
also
take
a
time
in
the
military
military
experience
will
substitute
for
a
lot
of
education
and
experience.
So
that
is
one
additional
thing
that
we
have
added
as
well,
so
it's
it's
not
just
degree
or
college
specific
on
many
of
our
jobs.
J
You
know
with
our
current
compensation
system,
in
our
current
methodology
that
we
use,
we
cannot
pay
someone
that
is
a
high
school
graduate
with
no
education,
no
experience
the
same
as
someone
as
a
job
that
does
require
education
or
does
require
five
years
of
experience,
or
something
like
that.
We
we
just
we're
it's
not
established
to
do
that.
That
is
not
the
compensation.
Health
System
how
it's
created.
A
Thank
you,
Senator,
we'll
ask
committee
members:
let's
move
on
our
questions.
I'm
allow
us
about
15
minutes
and
then
we've
got
another
presenter
to
come
next.
A
E
You
thank
you.
Mr
chairman,
my
colleague,
represented
Blanton,
basically
made
comments
that
I
would
I've
been
making
for
for
years.
It
was
almost
it's
kind
of
scary
because
he's
on
the
other
political
side
of
the
spectrum
and
I'm
on
the
other
side
of
the
political
Spectrum.
But
the
point
being
is
that
he
brought
some
issues
that
I've
been
defending
since
I've,
been
up
here
or
fighting
for
since
I've
been
here
and
I
want
to
thank
you,
Madam
Secretary
and
commissioner
for
the
work
that
you
do
for
our
employees.
E
I
I
want
to
ask
if
I
I'm
just
going
to
give
you
three
questions,
and
you
can
add,
answer
them
because
I'm
not
going
to
be
allowed
to
continue
because
I
know
other.
My
colleagues
are
wanting
to
do
so.
But
the
first
question
is
how
many
agencies
are
now
allowing
their
employees
to
work
remotely
permanently
and
how
many
agencies
have
decided
to
take
on
that
task.
If
you
could
break
that
down
and
the
number
of
employees
that
that
impacts,
you
don't
have
to
give
that
information
to
me
today.
E
If
you
can
provide
that
to
me,
but
you
would
have
some
some
course
of
of
of
where,
where
we're
going
sure
the
other
question
is
and
I'm
basically
looking
at
Transportation,
because
we
are
losing
you
mentioned
in
your
comments
about
engineers,
leaving
the
salary
range,
the
compatibility
of
what
our
engineers
and
our
transportation
people
per
se
is
just
not
the
engineers.
E
It's
also
those
who
are
Architects
and
that
sort
of
thing
were
that
salary
range
compares
to
the
private
sector
now,
and
the
third
question
is:
does
the
demographics
of
the
workforce
of
the
Commonwealth
Kentucky
reflect
the
demographics
of
the
population
of
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky?
If
you
can
give
me
some
of
those,
you
may
be
able
to
answer
now.
Some
of
them,
you
may
have
to
report
back
to
me,
but
I
would
appreciate
if
I
could
get
that
information.
Sure
absolutely!
Thank
you
absolutely
so
you
can
Mr
chairman
if
they
can.
J
As
far
as
remote
work
I'd
be
happy
to
provide
those
numbers
to
you,
I
don't
have
them
here
with
me
or
off
the
top
of
my
head,
but
every
agency
is
offering
the
ability
to
telecommute
majority
of
agencies
in
the
positions
that
are
eligible
to
be
able
to
do
that
are
kind
of
doing
a
hybrid.
It
might
be
four
days
in
the
office
and
one
day
home.
You
know
two
days
in
the
office
three
days
home,
something
like
that.
It
is
a
mixture
amongst
all
the
agencies.
J
E
J
Times
at
times
at
times,
so
that
that's
information
I
can
definitely
provide
as
far
as
current
and
we'll
get
you
demonstrations,
okay
and.
E
I
I'm,
if
you
can,
from
from
the
mid-level
to
the
high
level
to
the
low
entry
level,
if
you
can
break
that
down
I'd
appreciate
it
sure
absolutely.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
so
much
and
thank
you
for
what
you
do.
I
come
from.
A
district
with
50
of
my
population
are
public
employees,
whether
it's
local
government
state
government
cities,
the
school
systems,
the
universities,
the
plant
board,
that's
50
of
my
population!
So
that's
an
important
part
of
our
economy
here
in
Franklin
County.
So
thank
you
so
much.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
Let
me
get
try
to
make
this
efficient
as
possible.
Okay,
I
think
our
at
least
my
goal.
I'll
stay
for
I'll
talk
for
myself
at
this
point.
My
goal
is
this:
what
size
should
state
government
be
I,
can't
say
greater
or
less
we're
in
the
business
of
rendering
services
to
the
Commonwealth
from
the
Commonwealth
out
to
the
citizens
and
now
to
those
that
need
it?
C
Okay,
that's
our
business,
so
we
have
to
adjust
to
that
up
and
down
all
the
time
for
decade
or
two,
the
annual
increments
and
things
have
not
been
given.
We
have
a
compressed
compacted
schedule
now,
I
understand
you
review
the
classifications
and
great,
but
we'll
look
at
turnover.
What
is
it
per
agency
as
well
as
what
it
is
across
the
entire
Commonwealth
Workforce
retention
issues,
recruitment
issues?
What
are
those
per
agency
and
by
regionals
Geographic
regionals?
C
Those
are
all
issues
we're
looking
at
and
and
my
my
question
would
be
what's
the
plan
and
that's
a
loaded
question.
Okay,
so
what's
the
plan
I'm
generally
disinclined
to
go
with
a
what
I
consider
an
insufficient
and
inadequate,
almost
gimmick
of
let's
put
a
one
percent
across
the
board:
I,
don't
think
that
helps
I
think
the
situation
has
been
ignored
too
long
and
on
the
numbers
you
put
a
one
percent
across
the
board.
C
You
just
actually
aggravating
the
circumstances
further,
so
I
can
set
out
almost
a
gimmick,
I'm
disinclined
toward
it,
but
what
I'm
very
much
inclined
toward
is
this?
What
is
the
plan
and
I?
Look
and
I'm
glad
chairman
Dawson
wanted
to
put
you
on
today
and
let
you
do
a
presentation,
because
we've
got
a
budget
cycle
coming
up.
This
is
a
perennial
topic
and
it's
a
topic
of
of
light
in
particular
and
I.
Think
two
years
ago,
when
20
there
was
something
about
to
be
done.
C
D
C
budget
director
Hicks,
he
and
I
talk
somewhat
frequently
we
can
get
together.
We
can
get
together
with
the
commissioner
with
secretary
and
be
glad
to
hammer
it
out,
but
I'm
going
to
be
requesting
demanding,
on
behalf
of
Kentucky
taxpayers,
what
data
we're
relying
on,
rather
than
a
general
narrative
that
we
hear
of
we've
not
been
paid
enough.
We
haven't
gotten
the
adjustments.
We've
got
to
do
more,
we're
not
competitive
I'm,
not
disagreeing
with
any
of
those
statements,
but
they're
vacuous
without
some
kind
of
data
assessment
comparison.
C
How
do
we
compare
to
other
states?
How
do
we
compare
to
private
in
the
state
agency
to
agency
classification
and
classification?
Were
we
inadequate,
were
we
overcompensating
at
if
there
is
such
an
area
and
make
sure
we
adjust
so
that
those
precious
taxpayer
dollars
that
we
have
are
most
efficiently
and
beneficially
roi'd
retired
back
on
an
investment,
so
we're
rendering
out
the
best
Services
possible
to
the
people
of
Kentucky?
So
that's
my
challenge
to
you.
J
G
Thank
you,
Mr
chair,
and
thank
you
secretary
and
commissioner
for
being
here
and
sharing
this
with
us.
It
can
be
distressing
as
a
employee
side,
labor
attorney,
who
has
set
across
the
table
from
public
employees,
employers
for
many
years
and
even
recently,
I've
been
through
all
these
issues.
Many
many
times
and
I
hear
theories
about
why
employees
are
retained.
G
Why
why
we're
having
trouble
with
recruiting
and
I
agree
so
wholeheartedly
with
many
of
the
things
that
have
been
shared
here
today,
representative
Blanton,
representative
Graham,
so
I'm
going
to
really
break
this
down
to
a
simple
question
and
and
I
am
a
very
firm
believer
that
it
does
come
down
to
pay
in
benefits.
It
comes
down
to
it,
that's
how
we
get
the
best
employees.
That's.
There
are
many
many
layers
and
factors
that
come
into
some
competitive
reasons
with
the
private
sector
for
public
employees.
I
Well,
especially
when
we're
talking
about
competing
with
the
private
sector,
that's
what
The
Savvy
potential
employer,
employee
you're
looking
for
and
that's
definitely
what
our
state
employees
want,
and
what
we're
seeing
is
is
that
there's
been
very,
very
slight
changes
on
on
either
one
of
them
in
the
past
decade,
so
I'd
have
to
say
that
we
would
need
both
I
mean.
You
know.
Benefits
is
very,
very
important,
but
we
just
cannot
get
around
hey.
I
I
I
mean
you
know
so
I
guess
I'm
gonna
leave
it
that
I
mean
we
cannot
get
away
around,
not
paying
our
state
employees
more
I
mean
you
know,
just
making
that
presentation
that
it's
important.
If
we're
you
know,
if
we
were
living
in
a
bubble,
it
might
be
different
and
I
think
you
know
that
representatively
with
your
with
the
labor
law,
background
and
I
know,
we've
seen
it
quite
a
bit,
but
employees
are
looking
for
both
they.
I
They
you
know,
and
now
we
we
have
to
have
it
when
we're
looking
at
so
much
on
the
benefit
side,
especially
with
with
Insurance.
It
just
goes
on
and
on
from
your
physical
health.
Now
to
your
mental
health
and
the
serious
issues
that
we're
we're,
seeing
and
we're
dealing
with,
and
then
the
money
side
of
it
I
I'm
going
to
refer
to,
but
I
I
just
don't
see
if
we
can
do
one
over
the
other.
That
would
be
my
and
what
we've
been
seeing
and
what
I've
been
seeing
for
the
past
17
months.
But.
G
And
thank
you
for
that.
You
know,
as
I
deal
with
certain
individual
groups
who
do
have
different
perspectives
on
that
and
from
the
public
safety
or
hazardous
Duty
side.
Sometimes
it
it.
G
It
has
become
benefits
even
overpay,
but
you
know
when
you
get
into
the
stagnant
situations
that
we
hear
with
some
of
the
with
our
state
troopers,
for
instance,
it
it
goes
the
other
way
it
can
be
more
about
pay
and
I
just
want
to
get
your
impression
on
the
journal
overall
for
the
Personnel
cabinet
and
I
certainly
hope
that
we
will
be
addressing
these.
These
matters
I
think
the
the
issues
brought
up
throughout
this
whole
hearing
has
been
very
important.
G
It
is
something
that
we
can
no
longer
look
at
the
risk
and
sometimes
risk
gets
talked
about
in
the
pension
system
as
far
as
the
state
can't
take
on
that
risk,
when
we
have
a
defined
benefit
pension
all
these
years
and
Beyond
the
27
years
or
whatever
it
is
that
you're
going
to
be
in
retirement,
the
risk
is
happening
now
and
we
did
shift
from
a
defined
benefit
pension
system
to
a
hybrid
cash
balance
system
and
we're
hoping
there
are
ways
and
that's
what
I'm
working
with
people
to
to
perhaps
sweeten
that
pot
a
little
bit
without
affecting
the
pension
system
in
too
negative
way,
because
we've
got
lots
of
work
to
do
in
there
in
that
area
too.
A
I'm
going
to
apologize
to
our
committee
members
I've
got
eight
questions
that
are
still
wanting
to
be
asked.
We've
got
another
presenter
coming
up,
I'd
like
to
ask
our
members.
If
you
would,
if
you
have
questions,
please
submit
them
to
our
committee
staff,
which
will
forward
on
to
the
commissioner
or
The
Madam
Secretary
and
we'll
get
those
answers.
A
I
want
to
thank
you
so
much
for
being
here
and
on
the
issues
that
we've
talked
about,
particularly
mentioning
about
this,
the
pay
issue,
and,
of
course,
when
we
look
back
over
the
years
that
we
haven't
given
pay
increases,
we
have
not
done
that
for
the
state
for
our
state
employees.
It
also
must
be
be
remembered.
Part
of
that
problem
was
due
to
the
hole
that
has
gone
into
our
pension
system
and
that
money
had
to
be
placed
there
so
years
in
the
past.
A
A
Next,
up
from
the
Kentucky
public
pension,
Authority
we'll
have
our
presenters
come
forward
and
introduce
themselves
for
the
record.
A
D
Can
you
just
scroll
or.
I
B
I'll
go
ahead
and
introduce
myself.
Yes,.
B
Before
we
get
started
talking
about
House
Bill,
eight
I
I'd
like
to
give
an
unsolicited
compliment
to
the
two
ladies
that
were
here
today,
presenting
on
behalf
off
I'm
sorry
I'd
like
to
give
an
unsolicited
compliment
to
the
two
ladies
that
we're
presenting
from
the
Personnel
cabinet.
B
We,
as
you
may
know,
we
transitioned
into
18a
in
2016.,
there's
a
lot
of
trepidation
at
the
time
they
made
it
go
very
very
smoothly
and
they've
been
extremely
helpful
since
then,
so
they
get
high
marks
from
kppa
in
terms
of
their
support
of
us
back
up
just
a
little
bit
I'm
talking
about
House
Bill,
eight,
it
was
in
the
general
assembly
in
2020.
It
was
unanimously
passed
by
the
house.
B
B
It
was
unanimously
passed
in
the
house
unanimously
passed
in
the
Senate
I.
Think
that
says
a
lot
for
the
merits
of
the
bill
itself
says
a
lot
for
the
people
that
supported
it,
promoted
it
and
and
I
think
there
were
roughly
125
representatives
and
Senators
that
voted
in
favor
of
that
bill
and
anybody
who
voted
voted
yes
and
I.
Thank
you
all
who
did
vote
Yes
yeah.
It
really
began
as
an
idea
that
came
with
our
actuaries.
We
started
to
develop.
How
do
we
get?
B
How
do
we
get
out
of
a
conundrum
that
we
were
in,
and
that
was
that
employers
were
laying
off
they're
Outsourcing
people
at
a
pretty
high
rate,
and
it
was
forcing
the
the
contribution
rates
to
keep
escalating
I'll.
Give
you
a
little
bit
of
data
on
that
and
finally,
a
group
of
six
Representatives
came
together,
representative
Wheatley
who's
in
the
room
representative,
Plessy
Sheldon,
Jerry,
Miller
who's
on
the
line
and
James
Tipton.
Those
six
people
put
a
lot
of
effort
into
trying
to
figure
out.
B
How
do
you
make
this
house
bill
8
work,
and
how
do
you
deal
with
some
of
the
issues
it
brought
up
so
I
give
them
I
give
them
thanks
every
time.
Every
time
I
see
them
I'm
very
thankful,
because
this
bill
representative
plessis,
would
describe
it
in
one
word:
Fair,
it's
fair,
because
the
employers
are
now
going
to
have
to
pay
off
their
own
liability
and
not
have
other
agents,
employers,
subsidizing
them.
I
would
call
it
impactful
and
we'll
talk
about
why
going
forward,
but
there's
really
a
few
setbacks.
B
There's
been
four
things
that
have
happened
since
2013
that
have
taken
a
a
broken
pension
system
and
repaired
it
and
we're.
We
are
not
anywhere
close
time
wise
to
having
this
problem
fixed,
but
we're
structurally
very,
very
much
on
track
so
number
one.
B
It
was
Senate
Bill
2,
which
really
had
two
issues
embedded
in
it:
the
requirement
for
the
full
funding
of
the
Ark
beginning
in
fiscal
2014,
big
big
we
were
getting
for
for
12
years
in
a
row
we
were
getting
about
40
percent
of
what
we
should
have
got.
We
were
just
sticking
ourselves
into
a
huge
hole,
so
we
got
to
the
point
where
we
didn't
have
enough
assets
to
have
them
work
for
us
to
get
us
back
out
of
that
hole
so
and
they
had
to
be
done
with
contributions.
B
It
also
set
up
tier
three,
which
we've
was
mentioned
earlier:
the
the
normal
cost
for
tier
three,
in
other
words,
that's
the
cost
for
somebody
who's
in
it,
we're
paying
for
the
accumulation
of
that
benefit.
The
normal
cost
on
a
yearly
basis
is
less
than
four
percent
cost
for
tier
one
is
13
percent.
B
B
So
that's
the
first
two,
the
third
wasn't
in
a
2017.
Our
board
visited
hard,
a
look
at
the
assumptions
that
we
were
using
the
economic
assumptions
at
that
time.
That's
the
interest
rate
and
the
payroll
growth
and
historical
experience
would
say
we
were
way
too
liberal.
In
our
assumptions
we
were
shorting.
The
system
by
by
suggesting
that
the
economic
assumptions
were
much
more
favorable
than
they
really
turned
out
to
be
in
the
past
and
are
proving
to
be
going
forward.
So
that
was
number
three
number
four
is
Hospital.
B
Eight
I
think
you
I
think
we
we'll
look
back
in
20
years.
Those
of
us
who
were
involved
in
pensions
are
still
here.
Well,
we'll
look
back
and
we'll
say:
House
Bill
8
was
the
equivalent
was
Senate
Bill
too
I
mean
it.
Some
has
a
major
impact
and
it's
it's
allowed
the
system
to
avoid
the
transfer
of
cost
for
running
that
system
to
be
borne
by
the
state
at
higher
and
higher
contribution
rates.
B
The
calculated
contribution
rate
for
2021
was
85
percent
that
could
easily
be
over
100
within
the
next
few
years.
Had
we
not
gotten
this
bill,
so
we
really
are
saving
the
savings.
It's
going
to
save
the
state
a
lot
of
money,
not
in
the
media,
but
in
the
long
term.
B
So
I
I
do
want
to
say
29
years
2049.
This
system
should
be
fully
funded.
If
we
meet
our
assumptions,
if
we
paid
the
contribution-
and
those
are
the
two
ifs
if
the
if
we
can
earn
the
rate,
which
is
which
is
now
reasonably
stated
at
five
and
a
quarter
conservatively
stated,
if
we
do
those
things
in
2049,
you'll
be
100
funded,
but
like
a
mortgage,
you
know
we're
right
now
at
14.
we
were
at
12.
and
then
we
got
to
13.
We
got
to
14.
B
like
a
mortgage
you're
in
a
mortgage
of
early
years.
You
pay.
Your
principal
goes
down
only
a
little
bit
because
you're
paying
mostly
interest
and
that's
exactly
the
way
this
the
funding
of
this
works.
So
we
have,
you
know
the
first
year
of
the
recovery.
We
we
reduce
the
unfunded
liability
about
50
by
half
a
percent
50
basis
points
and
then
a
little
less
than
one
percent
in
the
29th
or
the
30th.
Here
it'll
be
eight
percent.
It's
going
to
go
from
92
to
100..
It's
like
it's
again
like
a
mortgage.
B
So
today
got
four
points:
I
want
to
just
give
you
highlights
of
the
bill
itself
as
a
reminder,
we're
going
to
talk
about
compliance
What,
the
quasis
are
going
to
have
to
do
in
terms
of
reporting,
at
least
in
contract
employees.
There
is
an
appeal
process
for
the
for
them
to
appeal.
The
amount
of
liability
that's
been
allocated
to
them.
We're
going
to
talk
about
to
rationale
on
that
policy.
We've
had
a
lot
of
discussions
with
a
lot
of
employers.
B
B
B
So
let
me
give
you
some
information
here
old
method.
I've
got
some
data
that
goes
back
to
2009.
It
went
up
through
2018
I
asked
staff
to
update
three
more
years,
so
it's
13
years.
That's
the
reason.
It's
kind
of
an
odd
number,
but
in
2009
the
contribution
by
by
for
the
percent
of
pay
was
10
percent.
B
It
should
have
been
28.6
percent.
That's
what
the
actuary
said
and
there's
the
part
of
the
problem.
I
actually
said,
put
in
28.6
stay
put
in
10.,
but
nonetheless
28.6,
that's
exactly
one-third
of
where
it
is
today.
So
it's
gone
up
by
threefold
again:
the
actuaries
calculation
and
now
what
we're
paying
in
2009,
Regional
Mental
Health
departments
had
83
199
employees
being
reported
to
us
83.99.
B
So
I'll
say
it
again:
83.99
13
years
ago,
1944
today,
that's
a
77
decrease
and
what
that's
done
is,
as
I've
said
many
times.
It's
just
shifted
the
cost
of
paying
off
that
unfunded
liability
to
other
people,
namely
the
state,
the
state.
In
that
time,
state
in
2009
reported
33
820.,
that's
quite
a
bit
less
than
the
40
000
it
was
shown
earlier,
but
that
was
2001..
So
there's
quite
a
decline
between
one
and
nine.
The
state
went
from
33
820
to
31.
B
B
B
More
agencies
costs
went
down
that
went
up.
Some
of
them
went
down
a
fair
amount.
Some
of
them
went
up
a
fair
amount
in
aggregate
the
state's
going
to
pay
three
percent
more
and
aggregate
the
Quasi
is
going
to
pay
eight
percent
less
eight
percent
they're
a
smaller
portion
of
the
total,
but
that's
a
a
one-time
bite
in
I'm
going
to
be
presenting
this
afternoon
at
a
r
and
we've
got
the
results
of
estimating
the
impact
of
this
wonderful
market.
We've
had
our
our
assets
are
over
over
20
percent.
B
That
gets
spread
out
over
five
years,
but
we've
got
a
we've,
got
the
calculations
on
the
impact
of
that
and
it's
meaningful.
So
we're
going
to
see
a
three
percent.
As
of
because
of
Hospital
eight
you're
going
to
see
a
favorable,
a
pretty
favorable
number
based
on
what
the
markets
have
done
for
us.
Aaron
you
wanna.
B
D
Okay,
so,
in
addition
to
changing
the
funding
funding
model
in
House
Bill
8,
there
were
some
additional
statutory
requirements
that
were
made
one
first.
It
requires
that
the
kers
non-hazardous
employers
begin
providing
information
to
us
on
all
in
persons
who
are
not
directly
employed
by
the
employer.
This
includes
those
people
on
in
providing
Services,
independent
contractor
or
leased
employees
through
a
staffing
company
or
any
other
employment
arrangement.
D
I
will
say
that
it
that
employers
are
supposed
to
submit
contracts
to
our
legal
department
for
a
review
prior
to
allowing
someone
to
provide
Contract
Services,
but
that
doesn't
always
happen,
but
this
bill
is
providing
that
that
those
persons
be
reported
to
kppa.
Now
there
are
some
exceptions
to
some
of
the
non-hazardous
employers
that
have
to
report
that
I'm,
sorry
I
don't
have
those
committed
to
memory.
D
They
are
in
section
7
of
House
Bill
8,
but
the
the
ones
the
employers
receiving
the
subsidies
are
the
ones
that
are
going
to
need
to
be
reporting
this
to
us.
The
the
text
in
yellow
is
actually
on
the
wrong
slide.
This
is
actually
going
to
be
an
ongoing
administrative
responsibility
of
kppa
staff.
So
we'll
go
over
that
later,
we'll
go
to
the
next
side.
D
Now
the
importance
of
reporting
on
these
employees
and
though
the
additional
persons
that
are
contractors
in
because
these
employers
receiving
the
state
subsidies
towards
their
retirement
costs,
must
meet
the
following
requirements
or
they
could
lose
their
subsidy.
So
in
hospital
8,
it
does
say
that
it
is
the
tent
of
the
general
assembly
to
provide
future
subsidies
to
help
with
the
retirement
cost,
and
so
at
least
60
percent
of
their
Workforce
must
be
payroll
employees
during
fiscal
year,
23
in
fiscal
year,
24
to
receive
those
subsidies
and
then
80
percent
during
fiscal
year.
B
Excuse
me
Aaron,
but
we
have
one
employer
who
has?
One
percent
and
99
are
contract
employees
in
a
subsidiary
that
they
own.
D
So
you
all
I'm
sure
are
aware,
but
for
anyone
blessing
that
may
not
kppa
doesn't
have
anything
to
do
with
the
subsidies
that
are
given
to
these
employers.
We
sometimes
get
calls
asking
questions
about
that,
but
we
are
going
to
be.
Kppa
will
be
responsible
for
collecting
this
data
and
Reporting
it
to
lrc
in
the
state
budget
office
each
year.
D
In
addition,
House
Bill
8
provided
an
appeals
process
for
employers.
Employers
can
appeal
they
had
up
until
July
1st
to
appeal
whether
an
employer
that
is
included
on
their
liability
list
or
I'm.
Sorry,
an
employee
included
on
the
liability
list
was
not.
They
can
appeal
that
they
were
not
the
last
employer
for
that
employee
for
that
member
and
additionally,
they
can
also
appeal
that
the
employee
was
hired
through
a
contract
between
the
executive
branch
and
the
employer
for
services
provided
to
the
executive.
D
Also,
if
the
employer
is
a
Community
Mental,
Health
Center,
which
has
was
contracted
to
provide
services
at
a
facility
previously
operated
by
the
executive
branch,
so
they
can
appeal,
they
have
the
option
to
appeal
those
three
things.
A
final
decision
on
those
appeals
will
be
made
by
the
Kentucky
Retirement
Systems
board
by
December
31st
2021,
and
it
will
be
then
we'll
work
with
the
state
budget
office.
They're,
still
ongoing
discussions
with
budget
director
Hicks
about
the
process
for
moving
these
individuals
liability
to
the
executive
branch.
So
that's
still
ongoing.
A
B
Let's
move
ahead
and
then
yeah
sure.
So
let
me
let
me
say
one
thing
that
the
statute
says.
Thankfully,
the
the
liability
that's
calculated
by
our
actuary
GRS
is
the
liability.
You
can't
debate
that
you
can
say
we
we're
not
the
last
employer,
you
can
say
other
things,
but
the
liability
is
a
liability,
so
we
agreed
to
provide
information.
Maybe
I
can
just
summarize
it
verbally.
B
We
agreed
to
provide
information
to
the
employers
we'd
give
them
the
names
and
Social
Security
numbers
of
the
people
that
are
including
that
calculation,
if
they
were
an
employer
who
could
not
leave
the
system
by
a
statute,
we
also
gave
them
the
liability
for
each
employee.
Although
I
constantly
asked
what
are
you
gonna
do
with
it
and
some
one
one
person
said
well,
I
know
my
lab
will
and
I
can
look
at
other
people
and
say
that
doesn't
make
sense.
Well,
they
don't
know
past
service
credit.
B
They
don't
know
compensation,
they
don't
know
whether
they
bought
time
they
have
no
way
of
knowing
there's
absolutely
nothing.
They
can
do
with
that
information
except
be
curious
about
it.
So
we
gave
it
to
those
that
couldn't
that
can't
leave,
because
they
can't
use
it
detrimentally,
those
that
can
leave,
we
didn't
give
it
to
them.
We
gave
them
name
and
Social
Security,
and
we
had
long
long
debates,
there's
going
to
be
a
bill.
I
think
coming
in
that's
going
to
deal
with
that
issue.
B
We
oppose
it
and
I'll
tell
you
why
we
oppose
it
and
I'll
and
I'll
kind
of
summarize
the
more
information
that
goes
to
Employers
in
their
data.
Is
it
more
likely
that
data
that
should
not
be
in
the
public
or
it
could
there's
more
data
to
be
hacked?
There's
a
bigger,
more
Rose
to
plow.
There
there's
no
reason
if
they
don't
have
a
reason.
Business
reason
to
have
that
information.
There's
no
reason
for
them
to
have
it.
That's
our
position
you
can
get,
you
can
be
hacked.
B
The
second
big
issue
is
the
members
have
a
right
to
privacy,
employers
shouldn't
know
if
the
employer
is
going
to
try
and
replicate
the
liability
they're
going
to
need
to
know
a
lot
of
stuff
they're
going
to
need
to
know
who's
your
beneficiaries?
It's
none
of
the
employer's
business
who
their
beneficiaries
they're
going
to
want
to
know,
start
dates
and
when
they'll
be
eligible
to
be
retired,
that's
not
their
business.
You
probably
think
of
a
whole
lot
more
past
compensation.
Did
they
buy
service
or
not?
B
Our
view
has
been
right
along
that
says:
if
it's
not
for
we'll
give
you
if
it's
for
a
business
purpose
or
were
ordered
by
the
court
we'll
do
it.
Otherwise
we
won't,
and
so
I've
I've
lost
a
few
friends
on
that
I
think
we've
had
we
have
some
Spirit
conversation
to
be
frank,
but
that's
that's.
That
is
our
position.
I'd
like
to
just
kind
of
look
at
my
notes
and
see
if
there's
anything
else,
I
didn't
cover,
we
did
have
81
employers
requested
data.
B
54
were
provided
name,
social
and
liability,
even
though
I
said
I,
don't
think
they're
going
to
do
with
it.
22
got
the
names
and
Social
Security
five
more
who
are
who
are
eligible
to
leave.
We
did
provide
the
liability,
but
we
we
agreed
to
go
to
their
CPA.
Their
CPA
would
sign
a
non-disclosure
and-
and
that
was
accomplished.
A
I
apologize
so
much
I
do
want
to
thank
you
for
being
cautious
with
the
with,
with
with
that
information
of
they're
getting
out
to
the
public
I
had
a
a
fraudulent
unemployment
claim
filed
on
me
last
week,
I
received
in
the
mail
and
it's
nothing
more
aggravating
than
to
see
that
happen.
To
have
a
question
representative
Meredith
has
a
question
for
you.
Please
thank.
F
You
Mr
chairman,
two
real
quick
ones:
the
first
one
real
quick.
You
mentioned
the
2009
numbers.
The
28.6
percent
was
the
calculated
contribution
rate.
The
10
percent
was
the
rate
that
was
actually
put
into
force.
Was
that
a
general
assembly
decision
or
was
that
a
board
decision
of
how
that
rate
was
put
into
Force.
B
That'd
be
the
state
budget,
we
had
nothing
to
do
with
that.
We
do.
We
do
commission
the
actuary
who
comes
up
with
the
recommended
rate,
okay,
but
we
don't
have
any
control
over.
We
get
it
or
not.
F
All
right,
second
question
may
be
a
little
bit
more
difficult
and
I'm
thinking
about
the
quasis
here
director
eager.
Obviously,
there
was
probably
some
funny
business
with
regard
to
shifting
to
contracted
employees
or
employees
through
other
secondary
agencies
with
groups
and
things
of
that
nature.
F
It
could
have
been
more
that
folks
that
they
were
trying
to
recruit
were
looking
at
wages
more
than
they
were
looking
at
the
pension
benefit.
On
the
background,
has
there
been
any
look
at
at
that
period
at
that
piece
of
that,
as
far
as
making
a
move
not
based
on
just
the
pension
contribution,
but
based
on
the
fact
that
it
was,
it
was
a
decision
made
per
the
salary
that
they
could
pay.
Somebody
who
didn't
want
the
same
kind
of
benefits
or
wasn't
as
interested
in
the
pension
type
benefits.
F
I
know
one
of
the
things
that
was
mentioned
in
the
last
presentation
was
the
the
nursing
homes,
the
veterans,
nursing
homes
in
the
state
and
I
think
by
by
law
and
by
Statute.
We
had
allowed
some
Contracting
for
those
types
of
positions.
For
that
very
reason
and
I
just
wondered
how
prevalent
that
might
be
in
the
in
the
Quasi
world
as
well.
F
Don't
know
that
I
don't
know
if
that's
exactly
what
I'm
saying
what
I'm
saying
is
I
think
that's
the
the
position
that
you
all
have
taken
with
the
Retirement
Board.
Is
that
it's
purely
for
that
situation,
but
I
think
as
they
look
at
recruiting
people
into
those
positions.
Sometimes
the
people
that
they're
trying
to
recruit
the
pension
is
not
something
that
is
interesting
to
them.
They
want
us
out
a
higher
salary.
They
don't
care
about.
The
pension
benefit
that
much
and-
and
so
I
was
just
wondering.
B
I
would
say
if
you
apply
that,
broadly
it's
been
pretty
generous,
the
the
the
intent
we
believe
is
not
purely
to
reduce
costs,
but
largely
to
do
so.
A
I
do
have
a
couple
of
questions
for
you.
I
did
want
to
ask.
A
D
Yes,
I
mean
over
the
they.
A
Appeals,
do
you
have
are
the
do
you
have?
Are
the
universities
appealing?
Do
you
have
appeals
on
ongoing.
D
Do
you
know
we
we
do
I,
don't
know
if
all
of
them
have
but
I
know,
I
know.
A
B
Out
of
100
and
roughly
110
agencies,
what
do
we
say?
44
have
appealed.
A
Okay,
I
apologize
for
making
you
have
to
rush
through
I'm.
So
sorry,
but.
B
A
Us
for
the
committee,
our
next
committee
meeting
will
be
on
August
4th
at
9
00
a.m.
Here
in
room
131.,
we
have
a
motion
this.
Second,
we
are
adjourned.