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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Judiciary (7-20-23)
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A
Late
waiting
for
a
quorum
and
I
know
that
Goodwill
Industries
there
in
Louisville
had
a
a
fantastic
re-entry
simulation
that
I
was
happy
to
participate
in
for
the
last
hour
at
a
later
time,
perhaps
certainly
in
this
agenda
we're
going
to
talk
about
expungement
and
clean
slate,
but
perhaps
later
on
in
the
interim,
we
may
hear
from
some
other
groups
talking
about
ways
to
improve
our
re-entry
systems
here
in
Kentucky
and
to
make
it
easier.
A
I'll
say
this:
if
you
ever
have
a
chance
to
participate
in
a
re-entry
simulation,
whether
it's
by
Goodwill
or
anybody
else,
I
strongly
encourage
every
person
in
the
room
to
do
it.
I
strongly
strongly
enthusiastically
encourage
you
to
do
that.
It's
worth
your
time
to
go
through
that
exercise
and
appreciate
how
hard
re-entry
is.
A
We
had
the
benefit
of
doing
that
in
one
room,
but
when
you're
Imagining,
the
folks
that
are
coming
out
of
jail
and
want
to
come
back
to
our
communities
and
our
society
and
get
to
work,
you
know
you're
handed
a
list
of
facts
about
who
your
character
is,
who
your
person
is.
I
was
Abby
and
Abby
was
blessed
enough
to
have
a
part-time
job.
There
are
others
who
are
having
to
give
plasma
to
make
ends
meet
to
get
tokens
for
transportation
to
get
to
the
bank
to
get
to
the
grocery
I
never
did
pay.
A
Rent
and
I
was
in
jail
each
of
the
three
three
all
four
weeks
it
it's
hard.
So
we've
had
some
members
come
in
for
that.
So
that
explains
our
bit
of
a
late
start.
I
want
to
give
a
welcome
before
we
jump
into
the
agenda
here
and
take
roll
to
our
new
Judiciary
analyst
Josh
shellapac.
Is
that
right
in
the
bright
yellow
shirt
there.
A
C
F
A
A
All
right,
seeing
that
we
have
a
quorum
I'll,
entertain
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes
of
the
June
8th
meeting
motion
made.
Is
there
a
second
second?
Thank
you
any
questions
or
comments
or
edits
to
the
minutes,
seeing
none
all
those
in
favor
of
approving
the
minutes.
Please
vote
by
saying
aye
aye
those
opposed
answer
approved.
Thank
you
all
right.
A
I
wanted
to
have
and
I
know
you
are
going
to
present
or
some
I
don't
know.
If
it's
going
to
be
the
three
of
you
lucky
enough
to
hit
the
jjoc
meeting
tomorrow,
but
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
that
both
groups
had
a
chance
to
hear
from
the
Department
on
how
things
are
going.
Staffing
wise,
what's
happened
since
session.
What's
in
the
pipeline,
Staffing
ratio
continue
to
be
a
concern
of
this
body
and
this
government
we
want
to
know.
What's
going
on,
we
gave
you
some
money
and
change
some
policies.
A
G
First,
thank
you
for
having
us
we're
here
today
to
give
an
update
on
Staffing
and
hiring
for
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice.
G
With
all
the
efforts
up
to
date,
we've
seen
our
correctional
officer
numbers
in
our
eight
detention.
Centers
increased
from
146
in
January
to
183.
As
of
today,
the
additional
funding
provided
in
Senate
Bill
162
to
add
another
146
positions
in
correctional
officer
series
to
meet
the
Department's
recommended
Staffing
pattern
to
ensure
the
safety
of
all
staff
and
Youth.
G
G
Although
we've
seen
significant
Staffing
improvements,
we
still
have
areas
that
have
a
long
way
to
go
and
are
more
urban
areas
where
competition
is
greater.
Recruitment
and
Retention
is
still
an
ongoing
issue.
For
instance,
in
Campbell
County
we've
seen
a
growth
in
correctional
officers
from
two
in
February
to
14.
As
of
today,
however,
we
still
have
significant
overall
vacancies
in
that
area,
similar
in
Jefferson
County
we've
seen
correctional
officer
numbers
nearly
double
from
6
to
11,
but
again
we
still
have
significant
amount
of
vacancies
in
that
area.
G
G
G
G
G
G
However,
we
did
not
see
significant
improvements
in
detention
centers,
so
in
October
of
2022,
the
youth
working
starters,
the
youth
worker's
starting
salary
was
increased
to
just
over
44
000..
In
February
of
this
year,
we
reallocated
the
youth
workers,
series
and
detention
centers
to
the
correctional
officers
series
to
more
appropriate
align
with
that
job
series.
G
G
G
We
are
actively
recruiting
for
all
positions
in
DJJ,
with
an
emphasis
on
detention.
Centers.
The
justice
and
Public
Safety
cabinet
has
dedicated
the
recruitment
branch
of
three
employees,
which
was
established
during
the
2022
legislative
session.
We
also
depend
on
the
superintendents
and
the
employees
in
that
in
those
areas
to
assist
with
recruiting
they're
recruiting
their
friends
and
neighbors
and,
and
they
know
these
areas
a
lot
better
than
our
three
employees
do
so
they're
they've
been
a
great
asset
to
us.
G
We've
contracted
I'd
like
to
give
you
just
a
few
of
the
recruitment
efforts
that
we
have
that
we
have
done.
We've
contracted
with
the
louisville-based
advertising
and
marketing
communication
agency,
that
does
social
media,
sponsored
advertising,
Google,
search
engine
marketing
and
website
advertising.
G
We've
held
on-site
job
fairs
at
Campbell.
County
Jefferson
Detention
Center
centers
attended
over
30
job
fairs
this
year,
including
Northern
Kentucky
University,
the
University
of
Louisville
and
Regional
Affairs
in
Louisville
and
Cincinnati
we've
increased
the
Department's
social
media
presence
posted
positions
on
indeed
LinkedIn
Kentucky
career
center
and
Glassdoor.
G
G
With
that
in
mind,
they
worked
with
the
legislature
to
change
18a
to
allow
more
more
flexibility
on
how
positions
would
be
posted
or
how
long
they
would
be
posted.
Now.
Job
advertisements
can
last
up
to
as
little
as
five
days
so
before
it
was
10,
and
now
we
can
post
one
keep
it
up
for
five
days
and
we
can
begin
the
hiring
process.
G
In
addition
to
the
efforts
I've
discussed
in
Senate,
Bill
162
provided
the
department
other
tools
to
assist
in
hiring
and
retaining
in
employees
the
bill
directed
DJJ
to
develop
a
limited
duration
program
to
allow
employees
who
have
resigned
to
return
to
their
previous
employment
classifications.
Letters
were
sent
to
eligible
individual
individuals.
G
These
additional
job
titles
included,
bringing
the
other
non-detension
youth
worker
salaries
up
Social
Service
clinician,
twos,
the
it
series
positions,
physical
managers,
nurses,
psychologists,
maintenance
positions
and
food
service
positions,
we're
beginning
to
see
positive
signs
from
the
Investments
made
over
the
past
two
years.
There
is
no
doubt
that
raising
the
pay,
improving
the
safety
and
operations
at
djh
facilities
has
impacted,
recruiting,
Recruitment
and
Retention
efforts.
G
However,
it
should
be
noted
that,
based
on
a
security
examination,
more
employees
were
needed
in
each
facility
in
each
Detention
Facility.
At
the
administration's
request.
The
general
assembly
appropriated
9.7
million
for
146
additional
DJJ,
correctional
officer
series
positions,
qualified
and
competent
staff
and
fully
staffed
facilities
are
essential
to
ensuring
secure
and
well-functioning
juvenile
justice
system
for
youth.
G
A
You
I
appreciate
it:
Mr
Moore,
you
said
you're
at
186
or
at
186.
A
A
They
deserve
every
penny
of
that,
but
you've
got
other
folks
on
the
community
side
of
DJJ.
That
didn't
benefit
from
any
sort
of
boost
like
that,
and
their
function
is
just
as
important,
and
some
of
us,
including
me
I'll,
say
I
did
I
think
others
did.
But
I
know
I
heard
from
some
of
the
community
side
of
your
agency,
who
were
pretty
miffed
that
they
didn't
get
the
benefit
of
a
big
boost
like
that.
Have
you
seen
any
attrition
there.
G
We
have
We've
not
seen
the
turnover
that
we'd
seen
in
the
past
in
those
positions.
I
think
that
the
the
promise
of
the
4.8
million
in
July
we
have
retained
a
lot
of
those
staff
that
that
may
have
went
elsewhere
before
that.
A
G
That
as
a
no
no,
it's
not
a
no,
it's
a
it's
more
of
a
budget
question,
but
do
you
want
to
we
want
to
yes?
Okay,
do
you
know
how
much
that
would
cost
I
do.
A
G
A
Get
that
information
for
you.
If
it's
something
you
want,
then
you
ought
to
know
the
number
for
okay
and
then
you
need
to
tell
us,
since
we
actually
spend
it
sure,
what's
the
ratio
at
each
of
your
facilities,
staff
to
detained
youth
today.
A
You
give
me
your
staff
count
I'd
like
to
know
what
the
ratio
is
that
day
and
what
the
ratio
ought
to
be
that
day
for
that
particular
facility
and
then
the
last
thing
out
before
I
turn
to
some
other
questions
previously,
when
the
commissioner
and
and
even
the
secretary
had
testified
before
this
committee
last
year
and
in
the
year
before,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
he
had
talked
about
the
secretary
talked
about
having
run
ads,
having
gone
to
job
fairs,
with
no
response
whatsoever.
A
G
Our
registers
have
definitely
improved,
so
we
are
seeing
more
applicants
on
our
registers.
Job
fairs
I
think
are
Hit
or
Miss,
depending
on
where
we
go
a
lot
of
times
we're
competing
with
the
FBI
or
DEA
or
more
maybe
some
State,
Police
and
sometimes
they'll
just
pass
by
us,
but
we
are
seeing
a
response.
We're
tracking
those
responses.
D
Lot
of
our
job
fairs
we
go
to
are
the
or
for
colleges
and
universities,
and
a
lot
of
them
are
looking
for
internships.
So
we've
really
tried
to
push
our
internship
program
more.
Give
more
information
out
in
hopes
that,
after
they
graduate
maybe
they'll,
come
back
to
us
as
well.
I
Thank
you,
sir,
on
the
juvenile
site
that
we're
paying
now
with
the
extra
five
dollars
fifty
thousand
dollars
a
year.
What
are
the
qualifications
for
that
job?.
I
G
A
J
Thank
you,
Mr,
chair,
I,
want
to
appreciate
this.
This
presentation
I
do
want
to
also
thank
representative
bratcher
and
Senator
Carroll
for
making
this
an
issue
that's
front
and
center
I
think
it's
important
that
we
remember
the
context
here
which
we've
not
talked
about
here.
We
had
escapes
and
rapes
and
assaults
and
abuses
all
over
the
place.
We
had
employees
that
were
in
that
were
in
ICU,
some
of
whom
we
thought
would
be
dead
because
they
were
assaulted.
This
is
this
is
not
something
that
the
executive
branch
took
on.
J
J
The
the
Catalyst
of
this
was
those
assaults,
those
escapes
and
that
gang
rape,
and
so
I
want
to
know
if
and
and
I'm
happy
that
we're
in
the
right
direction
of
getting
these
employees
I'm
very
happy
that
Louisville
is
getting
the
right
direction
of
getting
our
facility
back
in
in
Louisville
and
and
so
forth,
and
I
want
to
commend
the
mayor,
our
new
mayor
Greenberg,
for
for
what
he's
done,
I
want
to
know.
Has
anyone
been
held
accountable
in
the
Department
of
Justice
for
the
outrageous
things
that
have
led
to
these?
J
These
changes
that,
with
the
Catalyst
to
us
having
to
do
these
types
of
things?
Was
anybody
fired
or
anybody
suspended
anyone
reprimanded.
G
All
the
above
sir,
and
it's
my
understanding
that
the
Adair
County
incident
is
still
under
investigation,
so
I
haven't
seen
that
final
report
to
give
recommended
discipline
on
that
who
was
fired.
G
J
Okay,
thank
you.
Mr
chairman
I'll,
just
say
that
this
is
the
way
it
ought
to
go.
This
is
the
legislative
oversight
role
without
representative
bratcher's
work
and
Senator
Carroll's
work.
We
wouldn't
be
here
and
it's
it's
a
it's
astonishing
that
the
cover-up
that
occurred
in
the
executive
branch
it
took
all
this,
but
I'm
glad
we're
in
the
right
direction.
There
still
needs
to
be
more
accountability,
there's
not
been
accountability
at
the
top
levels
and
there
still
needs
to
be.
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
representative,.
A
K
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
this
presentation.
I
appreciate
the
work
that
is
is
ongoing
and
in
hiring
additional
staff,
but
I
believe
that
part
of
the
problem
that
led
to
the
problems
that
we
just
heard
about
were
a
lack
of
training
for
some
of
these
employees.
Can
you
tell
me
operationally
what
has
changed
about
the
training.
G
K
I
think
it's
important
to
to
pay
attention
to
how
we're
training
these
high
school
graduates.
They
have
no
experience,
and
they,
you
know
for
I,
mean
I
would
assume
that
they've
never
had
a
child
development
class.
They
they
don't
know
the
first
thing
about
psychology.
K
You
know
a
lot
of
these
children
and
they
are
children,
are
coming
in
with
severe
mental
health
issues
and
I
think
it's
important
that
we
really
focus
on
how
to
how
to
work
with
these
kids,
because
the
point
is
to
correct
their
behavior,
not
make
them
better
criminals
and
and
be
harsh
and
that's
the
whole
problem
that
we
had
and
then,
if
I
may
just
quickly,
we
inserted
some
language
in
the
in
the
bill
in
House,
Bill
3.
That
requires
mental
health
assessments
and
treatment.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I
want
to
Echo
the
sentiment
to
representative
nemus
and
thank
Senator,
Carroll
and
representative
pratcher
for
all
their
work
on
this
they've.
They
really
worked
hard,
but
I
want
to
I
have
to
take
a
moment
to
speak
up
for
Northern
Kentucky,
because
we
talk
about
headed
in
the
right
direction
in
our
region.
The
state
we're
worse
off
now
than
we've
ever
been,
because
for
the
first
time
since
really
Juvenile
Justice
was
created
in
the
mid
90s.
We
have
no
Detention
Center,
and
this
is
just
totally
unacceptable.
C
C
Just
this
is
hard
for
me
to
comprehend
the
largest
metropolitan
area
or
one
of
the
largest
metropolitan
areas
of
the
state,
with
no
juvenile
detention
center
and,
as
you
know,
I've
been
critical
of
our
Juvenile
Justice
laws
and
I
continue
to
be,
but
this
particular
problem
is
an
executive
branch
problem
and
we
need
it
corrected.
We
need
it
corrected
yesterday.
What
can
you
say
to
give
me
hope.
G
Thanks
Senator
and
Northern
Kentucky
is
a
priority
of
ours,
our
recruitment
team
they're.
Up
there
constantly.
Just
this
week
we
went
to
Northern
Kentucky
and
had
scheduled
20
interviews
for
correctional
officers.
Unfortunately,
only
11
showed
up,
but
out
of
those
11,
we
did
hire
10..
So
we
are
making
progress
in
Northern
Kentucky.
Of
course,
you
know
we
were
required
to
go
through
trainings,
so
it'll
be
six
weeks
before
they'll
be
able
to
to
work
with
our
youth.
C
Follow-Up
Please
Mr
chairman,
thank
you
speaking
to
the
staffing
issues
and
I
know
it
is
a
problem
anytime,
you're
doing
25
24
hours
a
day,
seven
days
a
week
and
it's
difficult.
It
is
a
problem,
but
I
would
and
and
I
know
you
don't
have
any
control
over
this
I've
talked
to
the
secretary
I've
talked
I'm.
Just
asking
that
you
passed
this
up.
The
chain
is
the
way
we
see
it.
The
citizens
see
it.
We
have
other
organizations
that
have
the
same
issues:
our
Sheriff's
departments,
our
Dispatch
Center,
our
hospitals.
C
They
all
have
to
staff
and
they're
making
do
somehow
they're
making
do
so.
For
us
to
see
such
a
critical
service,
just
simply
shut
down
is
unacceptable.
The
other
thing
that
that
is
a
concern
to
us
is:
we
have
to
have
a
facility
that
accepts
boys
and
girls,
boys
and
girls
24
hours
a
day
365
days
a
year,
anything
less
than
that
is
less
than
what
we
had.
F
For
for
presenting
today
on
the
Staffing
update
for
gjj,
my
question
is
about
turnover,
and
this
may
be
something
you
need
to
get
back
to
me
with
some
information.
I
I'm
curious
to
understand
the
duration
of
employment,
the
term
of
employment,
how
long
people
were
working
and
how
you
anticipate
or
whether
you
anticipate
an
impact
with
this
increased
salary.
Sure
and.
G
L
I'm
back
to
I
I
can't
understand
for
fifty
thousand
dollars
a
year.
No
college
degree
required
that
we
don't
have
a
little
more
interest
since
you
can't
at
this
time
express
what
they
go
through
for
training.
Do
you
mind
getting
that
to
us?
I
would
like
to
see
what
six
weeks
of
training
look
like.
What
are
we
doing
with
the
people
that
we
do
hire?
Yes,.
M
Thank
you.
Thank
you
all
for
your
presentation.
I
just
want
to
say
for
the
record.
It's
for
one
been
kind
of
disturbing
to
hear
some
of
the
comments
made
today
when
we
talk
about
the
context
of
the
the
condition
that
we're
in
with
DJJ
and
just
for
the
record
for
the
public
to
know
and
understand,
I
want
folks
to
know
and
understand
that,
since
2012
we've
had
11
different
Commissioners
within
DJJ,
that
is
not
just
on
this
Administration,
it's
on
all
administrations.
It's
also
on
this
particular
body.
M
Here,
a
lot
of
folks
on
this
committee
have
been
serving,
and
so
the
issues
that
we've
had
with
DJJ
has
not
just
happened
in
the
last
year,
the
last
two
years,
the
last
four
years.
This
has
been
an
issue
and
we
need
to,
as
a
body
collectively
come
together
to
make
sure
our
youth,
our
most
vulnerable
population,
is
well
taken.
Care
of.
Thank
you.
N
Thank
you,
chairman
I
I,
just
want
to
say
thank
you,
representative
Heron,
for
providing
that
context.
This
issue
did
not
arise
in
a
vacuum
and
it
certainly
didn't
arise
just
within
the
last
four
years.
N
A
part
of
the
perspective
that
I
think
is
important
is
realizing
that
our
goal
is
not
to
incarcerate
children,
and
so
with
that
in
mind,
I
want
to
know
is
the
same
priority
being
placed
on
hiring
the
community
workers
that
we
discussed
earlier,
who
are
at
the
lower
pay
grade,
are
the
same
levels
of
effort
being
made
to
recruit
them,
and
when
can
we
expect
to
have
that
number
of
what
you
need
so
that
we
can
get
it
to
our
direct
Petri
and
make
sure
that
that's
in
the
budget
in
the
coming
cycle?
Thank
you.
A
We've
got
one
more
question
from
chairman
Petrie
before
I
call
him,
though
I
I
want
to
follow
up
on
that
I
just
need
a
number.
You
say:
you're,
going
to
talk
to
leadership,
I
assume
that
means
cabinet
leadership
and
Miss
Norton
from
the
the
budget
director
there
at
the
just
at
the
Justice
cabinet.
A
I
just
want
the
number.
What's
the
price
tag
for
moving
your
community
side,
your
non-corrections
folks,
up
to
that
same
threshold,
I,
don't
need
the
secretary's
approval
for
you
to
tell
me
a
number
and
I:
don't
want
to
wait
for
it.
So
let
us
know
what
that
is
we'll
take
care
of
whether
or
not
we
appropriate
it.
I'd
vote
Yes,
but
we
need
the
number
before
I
can
put
it
in
the
bill.
O
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
so
I'm
going
to
start
this
off
with,
on
the
context
side,
talk
with
us,
it's
an
easy
thing
to
do.
Talk
with
us,
I
understand,
there's
hierarchies
and
so
forth
and
so
on,
but
we
have
real
world
issues.
We
have
real
world
policy
considerations,
talk
with
us
along
those
lines
when
you
say:
what's
the
targeted
number?
Well,
you
get
back
to
this
committee.
O
So
this
has
been
a
big
deficit
for
a
while
we're
trying
to
figure
out
ways
to
close
that
deficit
is
what
we're
trying
to
do.
If
we
don't
have
the
numbers,
we're
shooting
blind,
we
good
with
that.
Can
you
get
those
targets
back
to
us?
Will
you
back
to
this
committee?
Sure?
Yes,
yes,
sir
okay,
there's
cost
associated
with
it.
If
you
can
put
that
over
to
those
numbers,
that's
great
I
will
go
back
as
I've
done
before
and
check
the
budget
requests.
O
That's
come
from
each
executive
branch
Administration
during
that
same
time
period
and
see
what
we're
being
told,
long
form
and
short
form
and
compare
that
against
what
you
give
me
or
give
back
to
this
committee.
That
will
help
us
ascertain
numbers
now.
The
next
part,
if
you
will
bear
with
me,
not
necessarily
a
question,
but
the
first
go
with
this
with
those
numbers
targeted,
show
us
how
we're
reaching
those
targets,
what
the
trend
is
in
each
fiscal
year.
O
If
we
say
it's
supposed
to
be
156,
but
we're
only
got
a
82
what's
the
trend
from
each
year,
so
we
can
see
if
there's
been
an
intervening
bump
in
pay
by
annual
increment
or
by
something
else
we
can
see
where
that
effect
has
had,
where
that
has
had
an
effect
at
that
helps
us
understand
the
policy
and
the
facts
better,
fair
enough,
fair
enough.
Okay,
this
is
much
like
this
context
is
much
like
we've
dealt
with
in
in
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services
with
social
workers.
We
need
a
lot
of
social
workers.
O
We
need
a
lot
of
these
people.
There's
a
habit,
that's
formed
of.
We
will
liquidate
certain
funds
somewhere
else
and
bump
up
pay
here
to
hit
the
suburgency.
A
lot
of
these
are
foreseeable
emergencies.
It's
a
trend,
not
a
cliff
that
happens
all
of
a
sudden,
so
that
is
bad
policy,
that
is
bad
movement
for
money,
and
otherwise
you
mentioned
corn
fairy
study
this.
You
don't
have
to
worry
about
this.
This
is
all
common.
If
I
may
you
mentioned
corn
fairy
study?
O
Until
that
pay
schedule
is
dealt
with,
and
that
is
reset.
We
will
always
have
these
immediate
emergencies
that
will
continue
to
take
place
of.
We
have
a
deficit
employee
here
here
here
here.
Let's
get
to
the
emergency
once
that
pay
schedules
it
resets
and
makes
us
competitive,
and
then
we
can
use
the
annual
increment
can
keep
us
along
until
the
next
one.
We'll
just
pass
this
last
session.
That
pay
schedule
will
be
done
every
five
years,
rather
than
be
neglected
forever.
O
So
that
should
help
you,
but
this
is
a
symptom.
Overall,
you
mentioned
the
corn
Ferry.
If
you
can
find
one
little
piece
to
deal
with
in
government,
you've
just
try
to
use
a
nice
word.
You
have
overlooked
the
remainder
of
state
government.
At
that
point,
we
need
to
quit
getting
to
the
emergency
side
and
look
for
the
planning
and
look
for
the
trends
ahead
of
time
and
that's
why
I'm
asking
for
that
data
to
come
back
to
this
committee.
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
A
All
right,
thank
you.
I
appreciate
the
presentation
and
I
appreciate
you
all,
whoever,
if
it's
the
three
of
you
or
someone
else
coming
tomorrow
before
the
jjoc
time
to
field
questions
at
that
time,
too.
I'm
gonna,
just
while
we're
talking
about
Juvenile
Justice
I,
do
want
to
go
ahead
and
go
to
item
number.
Six
on
your
agendas.
The
administrative
reg
Review
Committee
referred
a
an
administrative
rag
to
us.
A
They
had
some
debate
after
I
reviewed
the
minutes
from
their
meeting.
I
thought
it
was
worth
having
us
discuss
and
talk
about
it.
You
can
see
it
there,
505
kr1,
140.
A
And
we've
got
a
handful
of
folks
that
I
wanted
to
have
present
and
give
a
very
brief
summary
of
the
reg,
the
proposed
reg
and
then
I
wanted
to
hear
from
Scott
West
DPA
to
talk
about
their
position
on
that
Reg
and
the
concerns
that
they
have.
That
I
think
they
raised
at
the
Red
Review
Committee,
but
I
wanted
to
give
an
audience
here
for
that
that
same
discussion
to
get
a
little
more
fleshed
out.
A
So
if
you
would,
please
folks
introduce
yourselves
when
you
speak
and-
and
you
have
the
floor-
hit
your
mic
button
there
please
make
sure
the
green
light
is
on.
Q
P
P
the
Amendments
basically
enact
the
governor's
executive
order,
segregating
the
males
and
females.
As
this
committee
was
aware,
and
what
we've
discussed
today,
the
the
problems
that
we
had
with
fire
and
Riot,
you
all
were
very
interested
in
segregating
the
males
and
females
and
segregating
violent
nonviolent
offenders
until
we
could
retool
the
facilities
to
make
it
safe
to
house
them
together.
I'd.
A
Say
we
were
listening
to
the
governor,
be
very
interested
in
segregating
those
populations.
So
I
disagree
with
that
characterization
that
we
were
very
interested
in
that
I
know.
Some
of
us
were
interested
in
separating
were
interested
in
separating
violent
from
non-violent
and
I.
P
Yes,
sir,
really,
the
the
amendment
that
the
GPA
I
think
highlighted
occurs
in
700.1
and
that
allows
just
talks
about
operating
the
female
only
in
the
mail
only
facilities
in
the
high
and
low
offender
facilities.
It
also
talks
about
detention
based
on
the
security
needs
and
the
transfer
of
Youth
based
on
Staffing
bed
capacity,
no
contact
orders
gang
affiliation
or
anything
else
that
would
impact
the
safety
and
the
security
of
the
facility.
P
The
other
ones
are
are
just
grammatical
Corrections,
they
Implement.
They
also
implement
the
taser
and
the
pepper
spray.
Those
changes
are
made
to
7
13
711
talks
about
the
transportation
and
allowing
security
handcuffs
and
that
kids
will
be
transported
securely
during
Transportation
in
7-Eleven.
712
is
just
a
grammatical
change
to
clarify.
713
adopts
the
pepper
spray.
Taser
allows
for
that
use
in
those
facilities.
P
A
A
That
right
and
then
thank
you
and
then
do
the
six
weeks
of
training
that
was
mentioned
earlier
by
the
HR.
The
gentleman
from
HR
Mr
Moore
does
that
include
I
assume
curriculum
about
those
defensive
weapons.
P
P
P
Yes,
but
we
will
have
that
also
for
the
tasers,
which
is
which
have
not
been
rolled
out
yet
I'm
I,
believe
that's
in
the
academy,
but
I'm
I'm
not
positive
about
that.
But
we
are
now
working
on
the
procedures
and
the
post
orders
to
roll
out
the
tasers
in
the
facilities
and
I
believe
we
are
now
training
the
Youth
Development
Centers
on
the
peppers
player,
pepper
spray
deployment.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
got
a
couple.
Questions
nothing
I
think
has
been
more
mischaracterized
than
this
issue
of
you
know:
housing,
male
and
female
detainees
together.
No
one
ever
you
know
there
was
kind
of
inferences
made
that
that
that
some
people
favored,
that
you
know
obviously
no
one
favored-
that
that's
Corrections
101..
Obviously
males
and
females
always
need
to
be
separated.
The
question
is
this:
it
was
kind
of
used
as
an
excuse,
in
my
opinion,
that
some
of
these
poor
terrible
crimes
took
place.
C
The
physical
layout
of
the
facility,
which
was
used
as
an
excuse
and
I,
totally
reject
that,
because
I
I
think
it
was
misuse
of
the
layout
of
the
facility
by
management.
It
wasn't
the
physical
layout
of
the
facility,
but
my
question
to
you
is
this:
is
there
anything
in
these
regulations
that
require
a
separate
building
to
house
male
and
male
and
female
detainees.
P
C
So
great:
well,
that's
great
news
so
because
you
know
using
that
logic,
every
jail
in
the
state
would
have
to
have
two
Jos
and
it
just
didn't
make
any
sense,
because
it
can
be
done
very,
very
well
in
one
building.
So
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
that
we
weren't
requiring
that.
Thank
you
for
your
answer.
R
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I
apologize,
if
it's
already
in
the
knowledge
that
I
don't
have,
but
when
you're
talking
about
using
the
tasers
and
the
spray
is
there,
is
the
regulation
provide
that,
within
a
time
frame
after
that
is
used
that
there's
a
written
report
made
about
that
use
absolute
purpose
and
it's
putting
in
a
permanent
document?
Yes,
sir,
all
right
just
want
to
make
sure.
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you.
M
Thank
you.
I
know
that
these
regulations
are
on
detention,
but
I
do
have
a
question
around
the
transportation.
Has
there
been
any
changes
made
to
the
any
of
the
transportation
regulations?
M
The
reason
I
asked
I
got
a
call
on
Monday
that
there
was
a
young
woman,
a
young
young
lady
who
was
detained
and
actually
was
ended
up
being
transported
to
four
different
facilities
over
the
weekend
and
so
I'm
just
curious
as
to
what
changes
have
been
made
around
Transportation
and
how
are
we
making
sure
that
that
youth
aren't
being
sent
to
so
many
different
facilities
and
short
such
short
period
of
time.
P
So
the
only
changes
to
the
transportation
in
this
regulation
is
regarding
security
during
transportation
and
pepper
spray
handcuffs
in
during
Transportation.
There
is
no
regulation
talking
about
that.
The
procedure
is
to
transport
them
to
their
well,
depending
on,
if
it's
a
male
or
female,
so
that
the
females
would
go
to
Campbell
to
then
be
to
Campbell
to
then
be
transferred.
We
can
certainly
look
at
that
instance
for
you
and
to
understand
why
she
was
moved
four
times.
I
mean
I
I
apologize.
I
can't
speak
to
that.
Without
that
information.
M
M
So
when
we
talk
about
the
Safety
and
Security
of
our
facilities,
we
also
have
to
talk
about
how
we
are
treating
our
young
people
and
what
that
looks
like
in
policy
procedure,
all
the
way
from
transportation
to
detaining
them.
It's
very
frustrating,
it's
very
frustrating.
When
we
hear
some
of
The
Narrative
of
these
young
people
are
being
dangerous,
we're
causing
them
to
be
dangerous,
we're
causing
them
to
be
agitated,
we're
causing
them
to
be
afraid
and
scared.
M
And
so
of
course,
there
are
young
people,
so
they're
going
to
act
that
way,
and
so
I
I
hope
again,
I'm
going
to
continue
to
say
it
that
we
can
come
together
and
find
remedies
to
make
sure
that
our
kids
are
safe
if
we
are
going
to
be
detaining
them.
Thank
you.
A
If
not
I'm
going
to
ask
Scott
to
come
up
on
behalf
of
DPA.
S
S
As
they
are
currently
proposed,
of
course,
we're
in
the
Justice
and
Public
Safety
cabinet,
with
the
Kentucky
State
Police
that
arrests
and
investigate
our
clients,
Department
of
Corrections,
that
incarcerates
our
clients,
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
that
detains
and
rehabilitates
our
clients.
So
I'm
often
saying
one
of
these
is
not
like
the
others,
but
we
are
very
appreciative
that
the
cabinet
has
met
with
us
and
that
they
have
recognized
our
independence
as
an
agency,
and
we've
had
some
very
civil
and
courteous
meetings
with
them
regarding
these
regulations.
S
Nevertheless,
we're
kind
of
where
we
agree
to
disagree,
the
short
way
of
describing
our
position
is.
We
believe
that
regulations
should
track
closely
and
follow
the
letter
of
the
law.
Administrative
regulations
are
the
blueprint
with
which
the
executive
branch
carries
out
the
intention
of
the
legislature
as
expressed
through
statutes,
so
they
ought
to
be
the
same.
We
would
characterize
the
position
of
the
Justice
cabinet
as
well.
They
don't
want
to
pass
something
that
the
moment
they
pass
it.
It
doesn't
reflect
realities
and
I.
S
Understand
that
that's
a
reasonable
position
to
take,
but
we
do
believe
that
ours
is
the
position
that
should
be
taken.
It's
the
law,
the
law
says
that
administrative
agency
may
not
by
rule
or
regulation,
amend,
alter,
enlarge
or
limit
the
terms
of
a
legislative
enactment
and
looking
at
your
legislative
enactment
from
Senate
Bill
162
last
year.
The
red
is
what
you
took
out
of
the
statute
with
the
available
funds
within
appropriation
limitations.
S
We
believe
that
that
indicates
a
desire
to
go
to
regionalism
return
to
regionalism,
regardless
of
money
basically,
which
imposes
I
guess
an
obligation
on
the
legislature
to
fund
it,
but
it's
done
again
in
each
region
and
then
removed
is
the
language
that
says
within
appropriation
limitations
and
then
finally,
to
to
make
it
very
clear.
This
language
was
passed,
the
justice
and
Public
Safety
cabinet
shall
develop
and
Implement
as
soon
as
practicable
I
wish.
I
had
put
that
in
green
as
well.
S
I
understand
that
can
be
difficult
and
I
understand
that
it's
not
instant,
but
I
think
that
the
regulations
should
track
that
because
we're
going
to
set
the
culture
going
forward
10
years
from
now.
Maybe
nobody
in
this
room
is
or
is.
Is
here
you
want
regulations
to
track
the
regionalism?
If
that's,
where
we're
going
and
that's
where
we
believe
we
should
go
I
give
you
this
example.
S
S
S
They
should
have
the
ability
of
doing
what
is
practicable
since
that's,
what's
in
the
law
and
and
I
believe,
there's
a
couple
of
places
in
the
regulations
where
you
could
build
that
in
in
the
physical
plant
regulation,
there's
143
characteristics
of
the
facility,
you
could
add
144th
that
says,
location
of
facilities
shall
conform
to
the
regional
model
of
juvenile
detention
center
facilities,
while
safely
segregating
males
and
females
and
separating
violent
and
nonviolent
offenders
in
the
building.
S
The
new
facilities,
you
could
add,
there's
eight
characteristics
that
should
go
into
or
eight
considerations
that
should
go
into
building
a
new
facility.
The
first
one
is
size.
The
other
was
proximity
to
courts.
Another
one
is
proximity
to
Community
Resources,
there's
eight
of
them
add
19
and
11
consistent
with
regionalism,
consistent
with
safely
segregating,
males
and
females.
S
Those
things
could
be
added
and
they're
in
there
for
as
long
as
the
regulations
remain
unchanged
and
it
promotes
the
culture.
Even
if
you
can't
do
it
tomorrow,
it's
there
to
make
the
culture
part
part
of
the
rules
and
the
regulations,
but
we're
not
just
I
mean
we're
not
self-appointed
keepers
of
the
law.
It
says
that
regulations
shall
match
thy
statutes.
We
think
there's
good
reasons
for
regionalism.
S
T
This
is
my
part
of
the
PowerPoint,
so
de-regionalization
drives
disparity,
sorry
deregionalization
drives
disparity
and
our
representation
of
clients
and
further
impacts
areas
where
we
already
see
racial
and
ethnic
disparities.
I
won't
repeat
any
of
the
AOC
slides
that
you
folks
have
seen
before,
but
there's
a
map
of
Kentucky.
You
know
we're
pretty
spread
out.
The
next
slide
is
the
pop
art
diagram
that
the
current
system
sort
of
leads
us
to
we'll
explain
shortly.
T
The
black
squiggles
are
the
four
prong
trail
of
where
a
Campbell
youth
could
be
dispersed
throughout
the
detention
system.
That
trial
attorney
would
need
to
visit
youth
at
Warren
Fayette
breath
it
and
Boyd
to
maintain
client
contacts.
So
Mr
schickel
the
red
circles,
maybe
go
back
to
the
picture,
but
the
red
circles
represent
all
the
counties
with
girls
that
are
at
Boyd.
T
So
that's
that's
a
lot
of
Transportation!
That's
a
lot
of
mileage
for
our
attorneys
to
visit
clients,
Fulton
youth
used
to
go
to
McCracken,
which
was
48
miles
from
home,
which
was
a
hop
and
escape
from
the
DPA
office.
Now
those
girls
arrive
at
Campbell
for
intake.
T
That's
350
miles,
one
way
for
the
transport
313
for
the
attorney
and
then,
if
they're
detained
beyond
that
initial
24
or
48
hours,
they're
moved
again
to
Boyd,
which
is
400
miles
or
374
one
way
for
that
DPA
attorney,
that's
extreme,
but
but
that
actually
happened
this
week.
That's
not
out
of
the
realm
of
possibility.
T
T
In
the
past,
a
Jefferson
Defender
could
walk
to,
jcyc,
could
drive
12
and
a
half
miles
to
the
LaGrange
Detention
Center
Adair
is
110
miles.
One
way
Boyd
is
190
miles
one
way,
but
as
it
currently
stands,
there
are
kids
in
seven
facilities.
So
that's
one
facility
visit
per
day
feels
a
week.
That's
not
a
work
week,
that's
a
full
week
and
of
course
those
attorneys
are
in
court
every
every
morning
and
usually
afternoon
in
Jefferson
County
Juvenile
Court,
a
Boone
County
Defender
has
youthful
clients
at
Boyd
fate
and
breath
it.
T
The
round
trip
to
make
that
tour
to
the
three
detention.
Centers
is
400
miles,
7
hours
and
13
minutes,
and
that's
just
the
drive
time.
That's
not
stopping
and
actually
talking
to
their
clients
and
that's
a
boon
Defender
who
used
to
be
able
to
visit
youth
at
Campbell
within
16
miles
of
their
office
and.
S
Let
me
interrupt
you
here:
that's
just
not
feasible
from
a
department
point
of
view.
If
you
look
at
a
Jefferson,
County
Defender
having
you
know,
Jackson,
you
know
Ashland
Bowling,
Green
you're
going
to
have
to
have
more
juvenile,
Defenders
or
you're
going
to
have
to
be
content
with
what
we're
not
content
with,
and
that
isn't
them
not
seeing
their
attorney.
T
Okay,
as
I
so
I
had
three
on
my
register
and
two
dropped
out
this
week.
That's
also
true
so
that
day's
Drive
obviously
impacts
representation.
Our
attorneys
are
in
courts.
We
want
them
in
court,
but
we
want
them
to
have
contact
with
their
clients.
So
the
drive
to
a
non-regional
Detention
Facility
is
taking
a
full
work
day.
T
T
If
she
doesn't
work
on
the
weekend
and
work
overtime,
the
specific
client
need
is
that
client
was
in
the
community.
Had
a
court
ordered
expert
evaluation
now
they're
in
detention.
That
expert
didn't
plan
on
traveling
to
Bertha
County,
so
we're
kind
of
in
the
middle
of
a
court
ordered
competency
evaluation
without
the
means
to
complete
it,
and
just
the
needs
of
that
client
are
in-person
needs.
T
S
None
of
this
really
takes
into
account
the
psychological
impact
on
those
children.
What
does
it
mean
to
be
taken
as
far
away
from
your
home
as
you
can
be
and
still
be
in
Kentucky,
and
how
does
that
affect
the
rehabilitation?
How
you
know
many
of
our
juvenile
clients
have
parents
who
themselves
are
Indigent
and
they
can't
make
the
trip
or
they're
working
and
then
we
have
to
work,
and
that
doesn't
mean
you
have
time
that
you
can
take
off.
A
So
I
I
am
very
disturbed
by
that
policy.
Change
deeply
disturbed
by
that
we
have
a
couple
of
questions
representative,
bratcher.
T
E
S
C
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
I
appreciate
your
Indulgence
I'm
very
interested
in
this
topic.
First
of
all,
I
I've
never
heard
a
report
from
the
Department
of
Public
advocacy
that
I
appreciate.
So
much
is
your
report.
Thank
you
for
thank
you
for
bringing
this
to
light,
because
I
kind
of
knew
it
all,
but
it
was
like
when
you
put
it
in
front
of
me
on
paper.
Like
the
chairman
said,
it's
really
shocking
and
this
doesn't
take
into
account.
You
know
there
are
people,
there's
Grandma's
brothers,
sisters,
stepdads
and
go
visit.
C
These
people
go
visit,
these
kids.
They
can't
do
it
so
you're
exactly
exactly
exactly
right.
Now,
I'm
a
little
bit
confused
and
I.
Think
representative
bratcher
touched
on
a
little
bit
and
maybe
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
can
needs
to
answer
this,
not
you
all,
but
with
the
current
regs
that
we're
proving
or
or
that
we're
looking
at
we're
moving
away
from
this
model
to
a
more
Regional
to
a
regional
model.
But
what
you're
saying
is
we
need
to
make
that
more
clear
in
the
document
right,
I.
S
And
we
think
that
Regional,
wherever
it
appears,
should
be
restored.
We
do
understand
that
there
is
that
caveat,
as
is
practicable,
that
should
be
in
there
too
we're
not
trying
to
hamstring.
You
know.
Sometimes
you
know
to
use
a
phrase.
You
know
line
up
alphabetical
order
according
to
height.
Well,
you
can
do
it
in
alphabetical
order.
A
We
both
know
what
what
will
happen.
I
you
I'm
not
going
to
make
you
speak
for
DPA,
but
if
you
continue
to,
if,
if
the
agency
continues
to
strike,
Regional
continue
to
strike
references
to
that
in
a
statute
we
know,
what's
going
to
happen.
Instead
of
regional,
it's
going
to
be
a
sort
of
a
super
region.
A
Put
that
language
in
statute
explicitly
that's
a
solution,
because
I
mean
we're
debating
this
reg
today.
Even
if
we
wanted
to
vote
and
find
it
deficient,
it's
not
going
to
stop
it.
We
don't
have
the
power
to
stop
that
when
we're
not
in
session
but
I.
That's
if
we
don't
act
and
do
something
to
change
that
I
fear
we'll
move
away
from
the
regional
model,
because
the
policy
document
won't
reflect
that
objective
at
all.
A
It'll
be
it'll,
be
based
strictly
on
separating
males
from
females
and
violent
from
non-violent
and
then
it'll
be
a
budget
question
from
there.
Can
we
manage
this
with
two
big
facilities,
one
for
boys,
one
for
girls
or
maybe
four
big
facilities
anyway.
I
didn't
want
to
interrupt,
but
I
wanted
to
interrupt.
S
A
R
You
Mr
chairman,
so
the
public
understand
the
numbers
you've
given
us
are
only
the
public.
Defender's
number.
Is
that
correct?
Yes,
that's
not
private
large
has
got
these
same
kids.
That's
in
all
these
places.
Oh.
T
They're
detained
after
an
initial
intake,
so
a
CDW
may
have
called
the
judge
and
said
this
kid
can't
go
home.
Where
should
we
put
them.
I
T
R
I'm
gonna
keep
asking
a
few
questions
about
you,
Mr
talking
and
then,
after
that
the
process
is
they're,
taken
their
we're
supposed
to
have
the
best
technological
internet
system
in
the
state.
Has
anybody
talked
so
we
can
get
some
time
to
regionalize
with
doing
a
secure
room
with
an
attorney
from
your
office?
Could
do
a
zoom
and
nobody's
they
can
watch
them,
but
they
can't
hear
you
could
turn
the
sound
off,
so
they
could
talk
to
their
law
freely
on
a
zoom
to
try
to
get
some
of
this
Transportation
stuff
resolved.
S
I
think
AOC
is
trying
to
come
up
with
something
that
accommodates
that
I
call
it
a
breakout
room
on
Zoom
that
I
could
say
your
honor
can
I
talk
to
my
client,
and
then
we
go
into
a
private
room
that
only
us
can
talk
and
it
can't
be
taped
and
it
can't
be
listened
in
on
and
then
I
press
the
button
and
I
come
back
and
I'm
able
to
talk.
That
is
a
nice
ideal
that
is
not
yet
realized
everywhere,
but
but
that
would
have
to
be
part
of
any.
S
A
If
I'm,
a
senator
I
want
to
say
I
agree
with
Miss
Karen
or
Scott
I
I
thought
mascara
may
have
said
it.
I,
don't
know
how
you
build
rapport
and
I'm
as
big
a
proponent
for
zoom
and
quartz,
as
anybody
in
this
room.
I
relied
on
it
this
morning,
when
I
pulled
over
on
the
side
of
127
to
have
a
docket,
I
I'm
thankful
for
it,
but
I,
don't
know
how
you
build
rapport
and
gain
the
trust
of
a
kid
who
is
troubled
and
distrusts.
Every
part
of
government
in
a
zoom
I.
I
A
R
I
didn't
say
the
initial
appointment
and
discussion
with
that
client,
but
I
know
lawyers
need
to
talk
to
him
off
and
on
one
question
that
they
may
have
forgotten
or
one
issue
they
need.
That's
came
up
instead
of
driving
from
where
they're
at
to
Boyd
County.
To
get
that
answered,
you
could
use
the
zoom
and
make
sure
it
was
secured,
where
it's
just
you
and
that
client
talking
after
that,
I'm
not
saying
the
initial,
but
that
would
save
a
lot
of
time
and
money.
R
Would
it
not
if
we
could
create
something
for
security
that
they
would
have
a
room
that
it
was?
Nobody
could
listen
to
it
except
you
and
the
child
that
they're
juveniles
could
be
talking.
Wouldn't
that
because
it
looks
like
we're
not
going
to
get
regionalized
the
cabinet's
not
going
to
do
anything
in
my
opinion,
unless
we
force
them
and
we
could
force
them
to
create
a
room
in
each
facility,
that
would
save
some
time
for
travel
and
then
we
can
direct
them
to
do
regionalization
by
Statute.
Can
we
not
that
would
speed
things
up?
S
Well,
I
mean
the
regs
are
always
going
to.
You
know
that
that
is
how
the
executive
branch
implements
the
statute,
so
it's
always
going
to
be
in
existence,
but
it
needs
to
track
the
the
but
the
substance
of
your
question.
Yes,
that
would
help
that
that
would
help
it's.
You
always
are
going
to
have
to
have
lawyers
who
can
get
to
their
clients
and
vice
versa,.
S
Sure,
I'm
skeptical
well
I
mean
zoom's
used
a
lot.
S
That's
within
earshot
that
they're
afraid
to
say
and
I'm
not
there
to
say
hey.
Can
you
step
away
so
that
I
can
talk
to
them
in
private
and
they
say
you
know
I'm
not
in
charge
of
that
unless
I'm
in
this
jail
with
them
or
the
detention
center
with
them,
and
when
that's
the
case
I'm
not
in
the
courtroom
and
that's
not
good
either.
One.
R
S
T
Are
a
couple
things
like
okay:
here
are
my
arms.
You
can
see
them
we're
in
person
if
we're
on
Zoom
I
can't
see
that
my
kid's,
a
cutter
I,
can't
necessarily
be
sure
that
my
zoom
doesn't
have
overlap
with
the
court
dockets
that
they
are
also
serving
on
Zoom.
So
we
do
have
zoom
in
these
facilities,
but
we've
had
issues
where
we've
had
kids
in
Boyd
that
have
overlapping
court
dates
and
we're
telling
a
judge.
T
You
know,
wait,
20,
minutes
and
we'll
finish
the
zoom
in
Madison
and
then
do
the
zoom
and
Christian
kind
of
thing.
It's
not
impossible.
It's
actually
going
on
right
now
to
some
degree
it
doesn't
like
you're,
referring
to
it,
doesn't
substitute
for
that
intake
meeting.
It
doesn't
substitute
for
meeting
your
client
person
but
for
a
phone
call
where
it's
like
yes
or
no
I
need
a
yes
or
no
on
this
new
information,
it's
perhaps
better
than
the
phone
call.
T
R
A
N
Thank
you
chair.
A
lot
of
what
I
was
going
to
ask
has
been
clarified
through
the
discussion
that
went
on
with
chair
Westerfield
relating
to
the
substance
of
these
regulations
and
how
how
we
can
respond
to
them
so
I'll
leave
that
as
it
is
I
just
want
to
Echo
the
frustration
of
DPA.
N
This
is
untenable.
Your
your
clients
are
the
most
vulnerable
citizens
of
Kentucky.
They
are
children,
they
have
constitutional
rights
and
we
are
not
providing
them
access
to
their
attorneys
in
a
way
that
needs
to
happen,
and
so
all
I
can
give.
You
is
my
Assurance
that,
in
whatever
way,
I
can
support
you
in
doing
this
work.
N
I
want
to
do
that
and
I
think
that
there
are
plenty
of
people
on
this
committee
who
also
agree
with
that
and
to
that
end,
if
it
takes
another
regulation
or
it
takes
another
law,
I
believe
that
we
are
committed
to
ensuring
that
your
clients
have
zealous
representation
and
access
to
their
attorneys
appropriately.
So
thank
you
for
bringing
this
to
us.
I
Thank
you,
and
this
is
this-
is
basically
a
comment
and
it's
not
meant
to
be
in
favor
of
regionalization,
not
in
favor
of
regionalization.
Anything
like
that,
but
I
know
as
a
health
care
provider
that
we
now
can
do
HIPAA
compliant
Zoom
when
it
first
started
honestly
10
15
years
ago,
I
thought
this
is
crazy.
This
is
absolutely
nuts.
How
do
you
examine
a
patient
remotely,
but
the
truth
is,
it
does
have
a
very
important
role
to
play.
So
I
just
want
to
encourage
you
not
I
mean
I
I
agree.
I
A
All
right,
I
appreciate
your
all's
remarks.
All
three
of
you
I
appreciate
it.
We
don't
have.
We've
lost
some
members,
I'm,
not
sure
that
we
even
have
quorums
we're
not
going
to
take
action
on
this,
but
we
may
take
action
on
this
regulation
at
a
subsequent
meeting.
So
members
that
would
also
give
you
time
to
read
it.
A
I'm
just
learning
the
procedure
and
I
want
to
make
sure
I,
don't
screw
it
up
so
I'm
going
to
ask
the
agency
DJJ
if
their
council
is
still
present
or
someone
from
the
or
Mr
codell
or
Miss
Barker
or
Miss
Boggs.
A
A
A
A
Yeah,
okay,
our
last
our
last
item
on
the
agenda.
Goodwill
is,
is
listed
separately,
I'm
going
to
sort
of
group
them
in
here
with
the
expungement
and
clean
slate
conversation
to
the
extent
they
want
to
participate.
I
want
to
welcome
up
or
welcome
down
representative
Moser
along
with
Josh
Crawford.
Q
A
So
Roberta,
how
do
you
spell
peon?
Is
it
P
I'm
just
kidding
I'll
pay
for
that
eventually
I?
No,
all
joking
aside
and
I
can't
Josh
remember
the
name
of
the
organization
I
know
George
is
in
the
title
senator
for
opportunity
and
your
position.
There.
A
Okay
and
then
Amanda
you
coming
up
very
good
with
dream.org
previously
with
the
ACLU
here
in
Kentucky
and
no
stranger
to
the
members
of
this
committee,
and
do
we
have
some
folks
attending
remotely
when
we
get
to
that?
No
are
they
here,
wow?
All
right
representative,
you
have
the
floor.
K
Well,
thank
you
Mr
chairman
and
thank
you,
members
of
the
committee
for
your
attention
today
to
this
important
discussion,
we're
just
here
really
to
discuss
and
explore
some
options
for
automation,
of
record
clearing
and
sealing
for
individuals
who
have
served
their
sentence
and
have
these
are
low-level
non-nonviolent,
arrests
and
convictions
of
certain
crimes.
K
K
The
objective
of
our
correction
systems
as
system
as
we
all
know,
is
to
assist
individuals
in
the
rehability
in
their
Rehabilitation
and
to
let
them
get
on
with
their
life
to
reintegrate
into
society,
and
this
will
simply
expedite
that
process.
It
is
a
notification
process
and
really
administrative.
We've
had
many
conversations
in
this
legislature
about
the
difficulties
that
individuals
have
when
they
have
a
criminal
record
and
are
the
the
things
that
they
face
when
they're
seeking
employment,
Education
and
Training
or
even
housing.
K
So
this
would
allow
for
individuals
to
have
the
record
cleared
with
exceptions
and
once
they've
served
their
sentences.
I
s
as
I
said,
and
re
remain
Crime
Free
for
the
five-year
waiting
period.
They
would
be
eligible
currently
less
than
10
percent
of
individuals
who
are
eligible
for
expungement,
actually
petition
the
court
or
petition
for
their
expungement,
and
so
this
would
simplify
the
process
for
individuals
and
expedite
it.
It
would
simply
notify
individuals
of
their
eligibility
for
and,
as
I
said,
expedite
their
record
clearing
and
get
people
on
the
road
to
employment
and
self-sufficiency.
K
This
automation
would
be
coordinated
by
the
administrative
office
of
the
courts
and
the
Kentucky
State
Police,
both
of
whom
have
jurisdiction
over
eligibility
and
processing
of
expungement
records
and,
as
I
said,
there
are
some
exceptions
that
we're
going
to
talk
about
and
I've
got
the
real
experts
here
with
me
to
answer
any
questions
and
really
go
into
more
detail,
so
that
is
kind
of
the
the
gist
will
continue.
Working
with
AOC
the
Kentucky
State
Police
judges
clerks
are
commonwealth
and
County
attorneys.
Anyone
who's
involved
and
interested
so
I
think
at
this
point.
K
V
My
name
is
Josh
Crawford,
as
was
recently
discussed,
I'm
the
director
of
Criminal
Justice
initiatives
at
the
Georgia
Center
for
opportunity.
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman,
for
having
me
members
of
the
committee
for
having
us
here
today.
The
criminal
justice
system
works
best
in
this
country
and
around
the
world
when
it
has
two
North
stars
that
are
sometimes
in
Conflict
but
oftentimes.
Complementary.
Those
are
accountability
and
Redemption.
V
I
have
had
the
opportunity
over
the
last
nearly
decade
at
this
point
to
present
before
this
body
multiple
times
on
efforts
to
increase
accountability
and
to
increase
Redemption.
What
representative
Moser
has
begun
discussing
here
today
is
an
opportunity
to
do
a
bit
of
both.
V
So
what
this
effort
would
do
is
not
otherwise
expand
or
change
expungement
in
Kentucky,
no
one
who
is
eligible
for
or
who
is
not
eligible
for
expungement
today
would
be
eligible
for
expungement
under
representative
moser's
plan.
What
it
does
is
change
the
process
by
which
an
individual
who's
already
eligible
expunges
those
records
for
the
purpose
of
coming
alongside
individuals
who
have
demonstrated
an
interest
in
rejoining
Civil
Society
in
desisting,
from
Criminal
behavior
and
in
turning
their
lives
around
and
helping
that
process
along.
V
It's
long
been
a
truism
in
Public,
Safety
Research
that
having
a
job
is
a
has
a
positive
effect
on
recidivism
that
recidivism
is
reduced
by
employment.
The
operative
question
in
the
research
is
why
there
have
been
sort
of
three
hypotheses
floated.
One
is
the
legitimate
earnings
that
come
from
gainful
employment.
One
is
the
sort
of
community
sense
of
purpose
that
comes
from
work
and
one
is
exposure
to
to
pro-social
behaviors
from
co-workers.
V
The
the
research
is
actually
weakest.
On
the
wages
front,
it
is
actually
strongest
in
terms
of
the
community
that
someone
builds
at
a
job.
The
pro-social
benefits
of
interacting
with
people
who
work
at
a
job
get
up
every
day,
go
to
work
those
kinds
of
things
and
that
the
pro-social
behaviors
that
develop
as
a
result
of
that
help
further
desist
Criminal
Behavior
among
individuals
who
formally
were
incarcerated.
V
So
how
does
expungement
impact
that
at
all
and
what
impact
does
that
have
on
that
those
employment
prospects
and,
most
importantly,
what
impact
does
that
have
on
public
safety?
So
the
most
comprehensive
study
of
expungement
anywhere
in
the
country
was
a
study
that
was
done
in
the
state
of
Michigan.
Michigan
was
sort
of
one
of
the
first
adopters
of
comprehensive
expungement
plans,
and
what
that
study
found
was
that,
after
five
years,
five
years
after
an
expungement
was
granted
among
the
cohort
that
it
had
their
records
expunged,
only
seven
percent
had
been
rearrested.
V
Now,
seven
percent's
not
zero.
So
how
does
that
compare
to
National
numbers
well
nationally?
The
Bureau
of
Justice
statistics
has
done
two
studies
with
a
2005
release
cohort
in
a
2008
release
cohort
both
of
those
cohorts.
10
years
after
release
from
24
States
all
over
the
country
had
re-arrest
rates
of
82
percent
and
83
percent.
V
So
that's
a
93
reduction
in
recidivism
over
what
would
be
expected
over
that
time
period
for
those
individuals
again.
The
operative
question
is
why
the
first
is
that
to
be
eligible
for
an
expungement
in
the
first
place,
you
have
to
demonstrate
a
desistance
in
criminal
activity.
You
have
to
demonstrate
an
interest
in
rejoining
Civil
Society
for
a
waiting
period.
W
Well
well,
first
I
want
to
say
half
of
my
testimony
is
gone
because
me
and
Josh
Crawford
agree.
So
let's
take
note
of
that,
but
thank
you
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
for
allowing
me
to
speak
today.
My
name
is
Amanda
Hall
and
I'm.
Here,
representing
myself
in
dream.org,
Clean
Slate
means
a
lot
to
me
personally
and
will
impact
so
many
people
that
I
care
about
I'm,
formally
incarcerated
and
have
11
years
in
recovery,
I'm
so
blessed
to
have
a
second
chance
and
opportunities.
W
In
my
life,
thousands
of
kentuckians,
like
me,
have
made
mistakes
and
turned
their
lives
around.
Unfortunately,
many
live
with
long
life.
Lifelong
consequences
of
a
criminal
conviction
on
the
record,
Clean
Slate,
is
an
investment
in
Kentucky's
economic
success.
At
a
time
when
businesses
all
across
Kentucky,
are
struggling
to
find
Qualified
ready-to-work
employees
formally
incarcerated
people
are
one
of
the
biggest
areas
of
untapped
Talent
within
two
years
of
receiving
an
expungement
people's
likelihood
of
employment
increases
significantly
and
personal
income
increases
by
25
percent.
W
Increased
employment
and
wages
means
more
tax
revenue
for
the
state
and
stable
employment
remains
one
of
our
absolute
best
public
safety
tools.
This
summer,
my
colleague
John
and
I,
who
you'll
hear
from
had
the
pleasure
of
holding
events
throughout
the
state
in
Prestonsburg,
Covington,
Lexington,
Louisville
and
Paducah.
They
brought
together
law
enforcement,
the
business
Community
Faith,
Community
victims,
rights,
Advocates,
family
members
and
directly
impacted
folks
to
talk
about
solutions
to
some
of
our
hardest
problems.
W
It
was
truly
an
amazing
experience
to
see
police
officers
talking
with
folks
in
early
recovery.
It
was
the
space
of
talking
to
each
other
and
not
over
each
other.
At
every
stop.
Expungement
was
one
of
the
things
that
the
audience
brought
up
the
most
from
Appalachia
to
Western,
Kentucky
folks
cared
about
Second
Chances
and
about
getting
folks
employment
and
housing.
W
Kentuckians
are
hard-working
folks
who
believe
in
forgiveness
and
Redemption,
so
I
urge
Kentucky
lawmakers
from
every
political
background
to
come
together
to
work
on
Clean
Slate
too
many
kentuckians
are
locked
out
of
Second
Chances
and
we
want
our
state
to
be
a
stronger
and
better
place
to
live.
Thank
you.
A
X
Hello
morning,
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee,
my
name
is
Elena
Sweezy
and
I'm,
a
social
worker
and
an
independent
lobbyist
I'm.
Also
a
person
who
is
formally
incarcerated
and
I've
been
in
long-term
recovery
for
more
than
10
years
now,
where
I
have
worked
diligently
to
be
an
equal
and
contributing
member
of
my
community
as
a
mother
of
two
daughters
who
are
seven
and
eight,
the
most
important
thing
for
me
is
breaking
generational
cycles
of
trauma.
I
was
raised
in
a
bar.
X
The
very
first
picture
I
have
in
myself,
was
sitting
on
a
bar
at
the
age
of
five,
with
a
bottle
in
my
hand,
and
my
father.
He
absolutely
died
on
a
bar
stool
in
the
same
bar.
That
picture
was
taken
in
when
I
was
13.,
so
to
say
that
I
didn't
really
stand
a
chance
as
an
understatement.
X
I
refuse
to
let
this
continue
with
my
children.
They
have
never
seen
either
of
their
parents
under
the
influence,
and
it's
not
only
because
of
our
dedication,
but
it's
also
due
to
the
resources,
programs
and
second
chance
opportunities
that
were
in
place
to
help
after
going
through
a
long-term
program
becoming
the
director
of
that
same
program
obtaining
a
master's
degree
and
working
there
for
10
years,
I
have
the
opportunity
to
help
hundreds
of
women
re-enter
and
recover.
X
That
day,
this
process
was
extremely
difficult
to
navigate
to
the
point
where
I
almost
gave
up.
But
it
was
still
my
mission
to
break
the
cycle.
So
I
fought
for
my
girls.
It
should
not
have
to
be
this
hard.
It
should
be
easier
to
look.
It
is
easy
to
look
at
someone
with
the
history
and
think
that
they
need
to
be
punished,
but
what
about
the
Next
Generation?
Should
they
also
be
punished?
X
Do
they
also
because
these
children
will
be
in
our
communities
they're
going
to
go
to
school
with
our
children
they're
going
to
be
in
the
same
dance
team
sports
classes
with
our
children,
and
so
how
are
we
going
to
set
them
up
for
success
and
strengthen
our
communities?
This
bill
is
not
about
expansion
or
eligibility
for
expungement.
This
is
a
process
bill
to
make
it
easier
for
people
who
are
already
eligible
to
get
their
expungement.
X
Y
Thank
you,
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
for
allowing
me
to
speak
today.
My
name
is
John
Bowman
I
work
at
dream.org
dream.org
is
an
organization
that
seeks
to
bring
people
together
across
racial,
social
and
partisan
lines
to
create
a
future
with
freedom,
dignity
and
opportunity.
For
all
we
work
to
find
common
ground
on
complex
issues
that
impact
everyone,
I'm,
proud
to
speak
in
support
of
Clean
Slate,
an
issue
that
will
impact
thousands
of
kentuckians,
an
issue
that
we
can
come
together
on
to
move
the
Commonwealth
in
the
right
direction.
Y
I
want
to
thank
all
the
community
and
state
organizations
that
support
this
measure.
This
morning,
I
took
the
two
and
a
half
hour
drive
from
Louisa
Kentucky
to
sit
here
before
you,
because
this
is
an
issue
that
will
affect
me
personally.
I
was
in
active
addiction
for
24
years.
I
didn't
grow
up,
wanting
to
be
a
drug
to
be
addicted
to
drugs
and
Justice
impacted
bad
decisions
in
life
happen.
Y
As
a
result
of
my
addiction,
I
ended
up
being
convicted
of
drug-related
felonies.
Today,
I'm
going
on
five
years
in
recovery,
I'm,
a
father-son
friend
and
productive
member
of
my
community
I
believe
everyone
deserves
a
second
chance
at
life
with
clean
slate.
We
can
give
thousands
of
kentuckians
a
second
chance
at
life.
Kentuckians
like
me,
across
the
Commonwealth,
have
turned
their
lives
around
in
our
productive
members
of
society.
Again
we
have
paid
for
our
crimes
repeatedly.
Y
Throughout
the
years
we
are
held
back
from
certain
career
paths,
volunteering
to
help
with
our
children's
schools,
volunteering
to
help
with
these
Sports,
just
to
name
a
few
most
of
the
people
who
are
eligible
for
expungement
either.
Don't
know
they
are
eligible
for
expungement,
don't
know
how
to
navigate
the
process
of
filing
or
can't
afford
a
lawyer
to
help
them
through
the
process.
Y
Automated
expungement
will
help
the
economy
by
getting
people
back
into
the
workforce
and
bringing
in
tax
revenue
for
the
Commonwealth.
This
is
a
win-win
for
Kentucky.
We
help
people
like
me,
get
a
fresh
start
on
life
and
we
help
the
State
Workforce.
Thank
you
again,
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
on
this
issue
today.
Z
No
I'll
wrap
up
all
right,
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you,
members
of
the
committee.
My
name
is
James
Sweezy
I'm,
a
co-founder
and
chief
CMO
of
the
impact
Wellness
Network,
which
is
headquartered
here
in
Kentucky,
which
also
includes
the
Robert
Alexander
Center
for
Recovery
in
Mount,
Washington
Kentucky,
a
company
we
founded
a
few
years
ago,
and
we
now
have
we're
nearing
500
employees
in
five
states
and
I.
Tell
you
this
because
I'm
also
a
formerly
incarcerated
individual
in
1998
I
was
convicted
of
trafficking
narcotics
for
having
over
eight
ounces
of
marijuana.
Z
As
a
student
at
uofl-
and
you
know,
look
I
did
it.
That's
one
I
was
arrested
and
I
was
given
probationary
period.
Five
years,
I
was
given
a
number
of
different
fines.
The
different
things
I
had
to
do,
which
I
went
and
completed,
but
once
I
became
eligible
for
expungement
a
couple
years
ago.
Well,
I
did
become
eligible
a
couple
years
ago
leading
up
to
that
I'm
gonna
Echo.
What
my
wife
said
just
a
few
minutes
ago
about
our
kids.
Z
We
were
told
we
couldn't
go
on
field
trips
with
our
kids.
At
times,
I
tried
to
the
only
thing.
I
was
good,
for
was
an
entry-level
restaurant
job
or
an
entry
level.
Construction
job
is
where
I
could
get
hired.
When
I
tried
to
become
a
real
estate
agent.
There
was
a
background
check.
That
said,
no
I
tried
to
become
an
insurance
agent
to
build
a
career.
The
background
check
said
no
and
I
continued
to
be
punished
for
20
years
after
that,
so
once
I
qualified
for
expungement
all
requirements
were
met.
Z
All
probation,
complete
the
five-year
waiting
period.
I
had
to
pay
a
lawyer
to
go
to
you
know.
When
you
go
to
ask
for
expungement,
the
court
tells
you
you
need
to
get
this
document
and
fill
it
out
and
put
down
every
charge.
You've
ever
had,
and
my
first
thought
was:
don't
you
have
them
already
and
they
said?
Well,
you
go
get
a
lawyer.
You
pay
the
lawyer,
then
he'll
come
back
to
us
and
get
the
charges.
Then
he'll
come
back
to
you
and
give
them
to
you.
Z
Then
you
bring
them
back
to
us
and
you
get
that
for
our
bargain
of
about
five
grand
in
my
case,
so
I
thought
it
was
unnecessary.
I
just
didn't
understand
it.
The
only
people
being
affected
by
not
having
a
clean
slate,
This
Clean
Slate
initiative,
the
only
people
being
affected
by
this
are
the
ones
that
cannot
afford
a
lawyer.
So
if
you're
looking
at
someone
criminal
record
and
you're,
seeing
it
it's
simply
because
they
couldn't
afford
to
buy
their
way
out
of
it,
so
I
just
I
asked
you
all.
Z
What
was
the
point
in
having
me
pay
an
outside
lawyer
to
come,
get
the
information
and
hand
it
back
when
I
was
already
eligible
for
expungement.
This
is
bureaucratic
red
tape
that
does
not
need
to
exist
and
I
heard
an
argument
a
little
while
ago,
as
we
were
sitting
over
here.
That
said,
you
know
if
somebody
reoffends
and
a
judge
looks
at
it.
Well,
I
need
to
see
their
record
so
I
know
who
I'm
dealing
with
well.
Z
U
Hello,
everyone
thank
you
for
taking
a
moment
to
hear
from
us
today.
I
am
really
excited
to
talk
with
you
and
learn
what
your
concerns
and
questions
are
and
really
try
to
answer
them
and
work
through
this.
So
we
can
have
a
process
that
is
workable,
collaborative
and
implementable.
In
the
end,
my
name
is
Jesse
Kelly
I
work
with
the
Clean
Slate
initiative.
I
do
National
advocacy
work.
U
My
background
is
as
a
criminal
defense
attorney
I've
also
served
as
legislative
Council,
so
I'm
coming
to
this
from
a
bit
of
real
world
experience,
I
have
been
working
on
the
issue
of
government-initiated
expungements
now,
since
2019
or
so
so
I
am
hopeful
that
you
will
not
stump
me
today.
I
am
eager
to
answer
your
questions.
I
do
want
to
highlight
a
few
things
from
the
previous
testimony
before
I
sort
of
dive
into
what
this
process
looks
like
and
how
we
can
do
it
together.
U
Josh
mentioned
that
you
know
the
favorability
of
having
a
stable
job,
gives
you
pro-social
benefits,
I'll
Echo,
that
but
add
that
we
have
discovered
through
research,
that,
after
a
person
has
had
their
record
cleared
one
year
later,
their
wages
Rise
by
22
percent.
That
was
in
the
Michigan
study
that
Josh
mentioned
and
we're
happy
to
circulate
that
Amanda
talked
about
the
five-year
waiting
period.
That's
currently
in
Kentucky
statute.
That
would
remain
there
if
a
clean
slate
Bill
were
passed.
There's
been
point
of
redemption
research.
U
Elena
mentioned
her
kids
in
a
really
moving
story
about
what
she's
been
through
and
I'll
note
that
one
in
two
parents
in
the
country,
one
in
two
kids
in
the
country,
have
a
parent
with
an
arrest
or
conviction,
record
and
finally,
John
talked
about
how
much
money
and
the
difference
money
and
how
much
money
we're
losing
well
nationally.
Every
year
by
cutting
people
with
criminal
records
out
of
the
workforce,
the
country
is
losing
87
billion
dollars.
U
In
GDP
and
now
on
to
my
presentation,
and
so
what
is
clean
slate,
it
is
a
term
we're
throwing
around
it's
tied
to
expungements.
We
all
know
that
we
want
to
lean
into
government
agencies
the
software
they
use
the
communication.
They
already
have
to
build
a
government-initiated
automatic
ceiling
program
for
people
who
are
eligible
under
Kentucky
State
Statute
I
do
work
at
a
national,
non-profit,
we're
bipartisan
and
we
work
with
advocacy
campaigns
across
the
country.
U
So
these
are
the
primary
objectives:
automate
update
and
decrease.
This
is
not
something
that
we're
going
to
do
in
every
state,
but
this
is
the
goal
of
the
clean
site
initiative.
You
will
learn
from
me
that
I
am
transparent.
I
am
not
going
to
sugarcoat
things.
If
you
have
a
question
I'm
going
to
answer
it
to
the
best
of
my
ability.
These
are
our
stated
goals.
We
want
to
work
to
automate
the
process.
U
So
what
is
the
recommendation?
And
this
is
why
I
try
to
talk
about
Kentucky
really,
specifically
and
dig
into
the
state
statutes,
because
what
has
worked
in
Michigan
and
Pennsylvania
is
not
going
to
work
in
Kentucky.
You
have
to
look
at
your
state
statutes.
What
your
State,
Police
and
your
office
of
Courts
already
have
and
are
working
with
and
design
your
law
to
be
applicable
with
your
data
systems
and
the
flow
of
information
among
those
agencies,
So
reading
Pennsylvania's
law
or
Michigan's
law.
It's
just
not
going
to
be
quite
quite
a
right
fit
for
you.
U
So
this
is
the
most
sort
of
streamlined
umbrella
version
of
how
this
legislation
and
or
automatic
software
would
work.
Eligibility
is
determined
at
either
the
state
police
level
or
the
administrative
office
of
Courts
level.
In
Kentucky
we've
been
talking
with
both
agencies.
We've
had
four
or
five
group
calls.
More
sort
of
one-on-one
calls
to
really
figure
out
where
that
eligibility
process
should
start.
The
software
is
going
to
run
through
it'll
check
everyone
who
has
an
eligible
arrest
or
conviction,
and
then
it
will
also
determine
if
that
person
has
met
the
waiting
period.
U
Criteria
which
again
in
Kentucky
is
five
years:
Crime
Free
after
that,
whoever,
whichever
agency
determines
eligibility,
will
share
that
information
with
other
record
repository
holders.
Again
you
have
two
main
agencies
in
your
state.
That
would
be
impacted:
the
state
police
and
the
office
of
Courts.
After
that,
the
software
will
run
and
generate
reports
that
will
update
records
in
every
relevant
system.
In
Kentucky.
There
will
be
an
order
requirement
where
a
judge
will
see
the
people
who
have
been
granted.
U
So
I
have
a
lot
of
national
numbers
that
I'm
going
to
run
through
really
quickly.
I
also
have
some
specific
Kentucky
numbers
that
I
can
follow
up
with
you
or
or
individually
or
whatever.
We
need
to
do
with
that.
I
don't
want
to
take
up
too
much
of
your
time,
because
I
can
nerd
out
quite
a
bit.
There
are
70
million
people
who
have
an
arrest
or
a
conviction
record.
This
is
a
color-coded
breakdown
of
what
types
of
offenses
those
are
so
you'll
see.
U
The
largest
number
of
people
have
a
non-violent
misdemeanor
conviction
with
no
other
felonies
on
their
record.
These
are
the
people
that
are
going
to
be
benefited
in
Kentucky
if
this
law
is
implemented
and
right
now,
if
you
automate
your
current
state
statute,
5225
5000,
half
a
million
people
in
Kentucky
I'm,
a
lawyer,
not
a
mathematician
half
a
million
people
in
Kentucky
will
benefit
from
clean
slate.
U
This
is
again
a
state-by-state
breakdown.
We
have
an
interactive
data
dashboard.
We
have
our
own
data
scientists
on
our
team,
I'm
happy
to
go
in
as
deep
as
you
want
to
go
in
this,
but
this
is
sort
of
the
breakdown
of
how
many
convictions
there
are
in
the
country.
Kentucky
Falls,
somewhere
in
the
middle
and
again
you'll
see
the
light
blue
being
the
biggest
number
of
cases
that
you
have
in
the
state.
So
that
is
non-violent,
misdemeanor
convictions.
A
Okay,
we
do
have
some
questions.
AA
Go
ahead,
thank
you.
So
much
representative
Moser
for
your
presentation
and
Senator
Westerfield
and
I
enjoyed
a
conference
with
clean
slate
back
in
the
spring,
where
we
learned
a
lot
about
this
and
I
had
a
question
about
our
current
law
on
non-conviction
records.
AA
Is
that
process
automated
at
this
moment
or
if
I
have
a
dismissal
on
my
record
or
I've,
been
arrested,
wasn't
convicted
that
that
is
not
automated
at
this
point,
I
still
have
to
file
a
petition
to
get
that
removed.
Is
that
is.
Is
that
correct?
Yes,
okay,
that's
that's
what
I
thought,
but
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
I
was
correct
about
that.
A
Senator
Berg
and
let
me
we've
got
three
questioners
here
and
then
I
wanted
to
have
judge
Ward
come
up
if
she's
still
here,
because
she
had
signed
up
to
speak.
Thank
you.
We
have
11
minutes
in
our
nine
minutes
before
natural
resources
starts,
so
please
be
exceptionally
brief.
Senator
Berg.
I
Thank
you
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you.
This
is
an
amazing
presentation.
I
think
this
is
an
awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome
idea,
however,
I'm
going
to
be
just
a
little
little
picky,
because
I'm
finding
that
we
get
numbers
presented
in
the
state
house
that
do
not
seem
realistic
and
I,
don't
believe
them.
So,
sir,
when
you
say
eight
percent
of
people
who
who
apply.
I
Only
eight
percent
recidivate,
whatever
the
word
is,
whereas
people
who
don't
apply
it's
up
to
82
percent
I,
will
tell
you
that's
a
self-selected
group,
The
Val,
the
validity
of
that
data
is
very
limited,
so
I,
just
you
know,
coming
from
a
background
of
science
I'm,
just
tired,
tired
of
some
of
the
data
that
were
presented
here
so
I'm
just
going
to
say,
I
wouldn't
present
that
data
again,
it's
a
self-selected
group
I
think
the
idea
is
amazing.
Thank
you.
AB
AB
The
one
that
I
heard
from
our
Commonwealth
Attorney
was
that
this
is
also
we're
going
to
expunge
if
they
haven't
paid
back
any
part
of
the
monetary
condition,
so
restitution
and
if
I'm
correct
in
that
what
was
pointed
out
to
me
is
this
could
be
inconsistent,
then,
with
Marcy's
law,
which
is
a
victim's
rights
law
and
under
that
it
says
that
the
victim
is
entitled
to
full
restitution.
So
I'm
just
wondering
how
how
we
can
make
that
or
change
that
and-
and
one
thing
I'm
thinking
about-
is
flagrant
non-support.
AB
U
I
have
the
answer
for
you.
It
is
not
going
to
be
an
issue
when
a
person
completes
their
sentence
right
now.
It
includes
paying
all
fines,
fees
and
restitution
before
that
sentence
is
deemed
complete,
so
the
Clean
Slate
waiting
period
would
not
begin
until
a
person's
sentence
is
complete,
which
means
they
have
completed.
Their
fines
and
fees
and
restitution
obligations
to
the
court.
I
understand
the
concern,
particularly
with
restitution
we
have
seen
in
other
states,
specifically
Pennsylvania
they've
passed
an
amendment
to
their
Clean
Slate
bill.
U
That
said,
fines
and
fees
would
not
be
a
barrier
to
eligibility.
That's
not
something
we're
talking
about
at
all
in
Kentucky
right
now,
but
if
that
were
to
come
up,
Pennsylvania
still
removed
restitution
from
that
question,
and
and
none
of
the
monies
were
deleted
or
removed
from
obligation,
they
simply
were
not
a
barrier
anymore,
so
I
can
continue
kind
of
going
down
what
ifs,
but
the
short
answer
is
for
Kentucky.
This
is
not
an
issue.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
a
couple
of
things.
First
of
all,
I
find
a
big
disconnect
between
the
testimony
and
the
facts
and
the
bill
the
one
of
the
things
that
Josh
and
Josh
it's
good
to
see
again
welcome
back
to
Kentucky
Amanda,
it's
good
to
see
you
too
I
forget
where
you're
at
but
I
always
enjoy
working
with
you
look
I
see
you
looking
so
well,
but.
C
You
know
Josh,
you
say
that
the
one
of
the
biggest
factors
is
someone
taking
initiative,
but
yet
in
this
bill
no
one
has
to
take
initiative
or
having
a
computer
algorithm,
decide
who
gets
this
expungement
and
who
doesn't
then
I
would
much
rather
I
would
much
rather
have
a
judge
putting
your
eyes
on
it
or
some
elected
official.
The
other
thing
and
in
full
disclosure
I
didn't
support
the
original
expungement
bill
and
my
reason
for
not
supporting.
That
is
the
same
reason.
C
I
don't
support
this
and
it's
never
been
mentioned
and
mentioned
in
any
testimony
and
I.
Think
it's
very
important
is
that
who
are
we
to
say
that
small
businesses
or
a
little
old
lady
or
somebody
that's
hiring
somebody
or
someone
that
wants
to
do
a
background
check
on
somebody
they're
bringing
into
their
business?
Who
are
we
to
say
that
the
government
can
hide
that
from
us?
I
I,
don't
understand
that
we
shouldn't
be
making
decisions
for
small
businesses.
These
small
businesses
should
making
that
decision
on
their
own.
C
Having
all
the
pertinent
information,
not
hiding
some
information-
and
you
know
I've
been
to
a
couple
of
these
re-entry
fairs
myself
and
one
thing
that
I
see
is-
is
that
there's
so
many
businesses
just
begging
to
hire
people
with
records?
In
fact,
there's
not
enough
people
with
records
applying
for
the
job?
That's
what
I
hear
you
know:
Chris
McDaniel,
our
budget
chairman.
He
has
a
concrete
company.
There's
all
kinds
of
in
today's
environment
I
think
it's
a
bit
of
a
creative
narrative
to
say
that
businesses
aren't
willing
to
do
that
because
they
are.
C
A
To
be
able
to
respond,
I
know
okay,
I
know,
but
I
do
want
to
give
the
judge
an
opportunity
to
to
comment
come
on
up
judge.
H
Never
been
able
to
get
anything
done
in
three
minutes.
I
would
like
to
maybe
defer,
have
an
opportunity
to
speak
at
another
time.
If
you
have
another
meeting
about
this,
I
will
say
that
I
love
to
talk
to
representative
Moser
a
little
bit
more
about
it,
because
this
bill
does
dramatically
do
change
the
current
state
of
the
law.
The
information
I'd
like
to
share
with
you
is
a
lot
more
than
I
can
just
say
in
a
couple
minutes,
I
think,
there's
more
information.
You
need.
H
U
A
You
have
I'm
gonna,
give
you
a
minute
and
a
half,
because
I've
got
to
make
an
announcement.
U
That's
perfect,
so
first
off
I
would
say
that
for
the
classy
non-violent
convictions
that
are
eligible
under
your
current
Clean
Slate
law
prosecutors
keep
a
non-public
copy
for
their
records,
so
judges
would
be
able
to
see
those
erased.
Class
D
conviction
records
in
a
sentencing
hearing,
for
instance,
so
that
is
part
of
that
arrest
and
non-convictions
are
also
a
key
part.
A
bunch
of
people
would
benefit
from
having
their
record
automatically
cleared
if
they
were
arrested
and
never
convicted.
So
that's
one
of
your
things.
U
If
you
know
that's
a
little
bit
different
thousands
of
people
and
then
it
is
difficult
to
remain
crime
free
after
you've
been
convicted
and
may
be
released
from
sentencing
to
maintain
compliance
with
all
of
the
probation
or
parole
systems,
and
so
I
don't
think.
That's
not
a
person
taking
initiative.
I
think
a
person
has
to
work
really
hard
to
remain
Crime,
Free
and
compliant.
U
K
Just
quickly
respond
to
Senator
schickel
I
had
that
same
concern.
Initially
I
thought
you
know
small
businesses,
they
absolutely
have
the
the
yeah.
They
should
have
the
opportunity
to
know
about
who
they're
hiring,
but
then
you
know
when
we
really
started
digging
into
this
I
thought
who
are
we
to
question
the
courts
and
the
punishment
that
has
been
given
to
these
individuals
for
their
mistakes?
So
it
goes
both
ways.
I,
you
know,
I
mean
the
business
owners
can
absolutely
interview.
Individuals
like
they
would
anyone
else
to
see
if
they
are.
K
You
know
an
employee
that
they
want
to
hire,
but
we
have
a
court
system
and
we
have
the
senses
that
they
give
out
to
to
individuals
for
their
crime.
So
I,
you
know
I
think
that
maybe
we
should
let
individuals
serve
out
their
sentence
and
get
on
with
their
life.
That
is
the
point
of
Corrections.
So
thanks
thank.
A
You
thank
you,
representative.
Thank
you.
Jesse
I
appreciate
it
members.
That
concludes
our
agenda.
For
today.
It's
crampacked
appreciate
your
time
and
I
know.
Some
folks
are
heading
to
the
next
meeting,
but
I
want
to
let
you
know
our
next
meeting.
The
next
Judiciary
meeting
is
two
weeks
from
today.
A
It's
a
quick
turnaround,
August
3rd
at
11
A.M,
presumably
in
this
room
with
that,
we
are.