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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Licensing, Occupations, and Administrative Regulations (10-27-22)
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A
A
Co-Chair
canning,
do
you
have
anything
you
want
to
address
this
morning?
I
have
a
couple
of
announcements.
The
first
announcement
is
our
next
meeting.
We
have
changed
the
time
to
10
o'clock,
so
it's
normally
we
meet
11.
It
will
be
at
10
o'clock.
Also,
that
will
be
the
last
meeting
of
the
interim,
so
we
will
be
honoring
the
members
who
are
the
outgoing
members,
so
that
is
a
meeting
that
you
will
not
want
to
miss.
A
Also,
our
staff
here
are
so
important
and
we're
all
really
very
close
on
this
committee
and
it's
like
family
to
me
and
Bryce
ambergy
who's.
Our
head
staffer,
is
really
going
through
a
crisis
and
has
been
for
quite
some
time.
His
son
is
battling
leukemia
and
Bryce
has
had
to
miss
a
lot
of
work.
His
son's
name
is
Luke
I
think
today
or
tomorrow,
they're
traveling
to
Children's
Hospital
up
in
Cincinnati
for
I
believe
a
bone
marrow
transplant
plant.
A
If
all
the
Tesco-
and
it's
just
really
really
been
a
tough
time
for
him.
I
have
a
card
that
I'm
going
to
pass
around
that
you
all
can
sign
for
Bryce
and
the
staff
will
deliver
to
him.
Also.
If
anyone
would
like
an
address
to
mail,
a
card
to
Bryce
and
his
son
and
wife,
they
just
have
that
one
child.
A
Good
morning
you
have
10
minutes
and
after
that
I'm
sure
there'll
be
some
questions.
C
Always
do
that
good
morning,
Mr,
chairman
and
committee
members
always
a
great
opportunity
to
come
before
you
all
and
I'm
always
grateful
for
the
opportunity
to
talk
about
the
wonderful
things
that
are
going
on
in
your
lottery.
So
I
would
like
to
introduce
the
folks
that
I
have
with
me
today.
Our
chief
technology
officer
is
t.h
Morris
on
my
left
on
my
right:
I
have
Rick
Kelly,
Vice
President
of
Finance
and
administration
and
on
the
far
right,
Ingram,
quick,
our
vice
president
of
audit.
C
D
Thank
you
Mary,
good
morning,
everyone
Mike,
thank
you
Mary
good
morning.
Everyone.
You
should
have
a
financial
handout
in
front
of
you.
On
page
two
I'll
start
with
the
lottery
business
update.
You
should
see
some
charts
there
that
review
the
last
10
years
of
lottery
sales
and
transfers.
You
can
see
that
it
provides
a
great
visual
of
of
those
sales
and
transfers
over
the
last
10
years,
showing
steady
growth
with
significant
growth
in
the
last
two
years.
D
On
page
three,
we've
got
the
numbers
there
on
the
lottery
business
update.
You
can
see
that
we
had
record
sales
in
fiscal
year,
22
of
1.677
billion
dollars,
and
we
transferred
a
record
360.8
million
dollars
to
the
Commonwealth
on
slide.
Four,
on
page
four,
you
can
see
a
visual
representation
of
where
the
money
goes.
D
D
C
E
C
We'll
begin
with
a
little
bit
of
a
background
facts
about
the
Kentucky
Lottery
we
were
created
in
1989
and
at
that
time
our
funds
went
mainly
to
the
general
fund
in
1999.
The
general
assembly
saw
fit
to
direct
those
funds
to
specific
scholarships
and
grants.
So
since
1999,
that's
what
Lottery
funds
have
been
used
for,
since
1989
we've
turned
over
6.4
billion
dollars
to
the
Commonwealth,
and
since
1999
of
that
4.4
billion
dollars
has
gone
to
scholarship
and
Grant
and
other
educational
programs.
C
The
specific
allocations
are
set
by
legislation,
that's
our
statute,
KRS
154a130
and
each
biennium
with
the
budget
Bill,
and
for
this
point
I
want
to
emphasize
that
we
really
have
no
control
over
how
those
funds
are
spent.
Folks,
come
up
to
me
after
I
speak
sometimes
in
engagements
that
type
of
thing,
they'll,
say
Mary.
Why
can't
you
fund
Pre-K
or
K-12,
or
you
could
really
make
a
difference
there?
It's
like
yeah,
but
that's
the
general
Assemblies
of
responsibility,
and
that
is
all
set
out
in
the
budget
bill.
C
So
what
exactly
is
set
out
in
the
budget
Bill
and
you
can
find
that
on
slide.
Seven
is
a
list
of
the
specific
scholarships
and
Grant
programs
that
we
find
there's
the
popular
key
scholarship
program.
I
know
many
of
you
probably
had
children
that
have
participated,
that
I
know
I
have
as
well,
that's
100
lottery
funded
and
it
is
merit-based.
C
The
college
Access
program
is
a
need-based
program
and
the
Kentucky
tuition.
Grant
is
also
a
need-based
program
for
students
attending
private
universities.
The
work
ready
scholarship
is
also
funded
by
Lottery
proceeds.
That
is,
allowing
students
at
our
community
colleges
to
pursue
degrees
in
certain
high
demand.
Fields
like
technology
and
Health
Care,
the
Dual
credit
scholarship.
Many
of
your
children
probably
have
taken
advantage
of
that
by
getting
high
in
high
school,
getting
college
credit
without
even
going
on
a
college
campus
and
then
there's
the
two
career,
specific
scholarships:
the
teachers
scholarship
and
the
National
Guard
scholarship.
C
Those
are
directed
Again
by
the
budget
Bill
and
that's
what
Kentucky
Lottery
proceeds
fund.
So,
on
slide,
eight,
just
a
few
more
quick
facts
that
4.4
billion
that's
gone
to.
Education
has
provided
2.43
million
in
scholarships
and
grants
since
19
99,
98
cents
of
every
one
dollar
in
student.
Financial
aid
awarded
by
the
Commonwealth
comes
from
lottery
tickets
and
820
000
Kentucky
students
have
received
a
grant
or
scholarship,
that's
been
funded
by
Kentucky
Lottery
proceeds
and
to
that
I
will
add.
C
One
more
fact,
which
is
one
in
five
kentuckians,
has
now
received
a
college
scholarship
or
Grant.
That's
been
funded
by
Lottery
proceeds
so
years
ago,
in
1999,
when
the
general
assembly
decided
to
direct
our
funds
to
these
programs,
the
intent
was
specifically
as
to
the
key
scholarship
program
to
keep
our
high
performing
students
right
here
in
the
state
to
attend
our
universities
and
colleges
and
the
research
that
has
been
done
since
that
time
has
shown
that
it
is
working
and
we're
very,
very
proud
to
be
a
part
of
that
initiative.
Thank.
F
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
coming
here
and
doing
this.
I'd
had
some
questions
and
I
talked
to
the
chairman
about,
and
it
kind
of
came
up
in
this
past
session.
You
guys
were
in
here
on
some
issues
and
we're
talking
about
that.
F
The
lottery
was
so
important
to
funding
education
for
our
students
and-
and
it
is
I
think
that's
the
public
perception
of
it,
but
I
happen
to
be
going
through
this
process
myself,
with
with
teenage
kids
and
the
the
actual
Gap
in
what
the
money
was
available
and
the
perception
of
it
there
was.
There
was
quite
a
gap
in
there.
F
One
of
the
things
that
you
just
said
is
that
Keys
is
designed
to
keep
our
high
performing
students
at
home
and
speaking
of
one
I
have
I've
been
blessed
with
a
very
high
performing
daughter
and
the
amount
of
keys
money
that
we
were
going
to
see
and
I
have
to
assume
that
she
pretty
much
maxed
out
on
this
and
the
amount
of
keys
money
available
to
her
wasn't
even
a
factor.
F
It
wasn't
and
I,
don't
remember
the
number,
but
it
wasn't
enough
to
even
move
the
needle
on
this,
and
because
this
is
my
peer
group
right
now
with
parents
with
school-aged
children
that
are
moving
on
to
college
when
they
that
there's
a
misconception
until
they
get
to
digging
down
into
this,
that
the
lottery
money
is
really
going
to
help
them
and
it's
a
rude
awakening
when
they
get
to
that
point
and
they
realize
there's
not
a
great
deal
of
money
to
be
deployed
there
and
it
really
isn't
a
factor
at
all
and
everybody
I've
talked
to
is
decisions
on
this
and
I
know.
F
That's
not
the
lottery
spot,
that's
just
the
the
natural
issue
of
it,
and
that
was
one
of
the
things
that
I
wanted
to
talk
about
today.
I'd
provide
did
some
some
rough
math,
because
I
can
still
do
that
and
the
the
fiscal
year
22
numbers
that
were
provided
just
taking
a
rough
average.
F
The
average
Keys
recipient
received
Seventeen
hundred
and
eight
dollars
and
55
cents,
which,
when
I
went
to
school,
was
a
lot
of
money
that
that
would
have
been
real
for
a
public
for
one
of
our
public
institutions,
but
I
looked
on
some
of
the
websites
for
some
of
our
schools
without
factoring
in
fees
and
everything.
Some
of
the
regional
universities,
including
the
one
in
my
hometown,
the
the
total
price
is
roughly
twenty
thousand
dollars
a
year.
F
The
U.S
Department
of
Education
statistics
that
go
into
this
a
Family
household
with
less
than
thirty
thousand
dollars
a
year.
The
adjusted
out
cost
is
nine
thousand
three
hundred
and
thirty
nine
dollars
a
year.
There's
been
a
significant
Gap,
as
Education
costs
have
increased
and
we've
kind
of
flatlined
our
our
our
funding
on
this.
F
We
always
talk
about
how
cheap
it
was
in
our
day
and
all
these
things
that
nobody
in
the
prisoner
wants
to
hear.
But
do
you
know
how
this
formula
rep
works
as
opposed
to
when
it
started?
Is
the
keys
money
that's
available
been
roughly
the
same
in
in
real
dollars,
but
and
they've
just
kind
of
lost
their
purchasing
effect?
As
they
haven't
kept
pace
with
with
higher
ed
inflation.
C
F
Some
of
the
things
that
I
looked
at
in
the
information
provided-
and
thank
you
for
that.
We
always
question
about
whether
someone
how
anyone's
spending
their
money
in
your
operations
look
lean.
You
have
to
return
money
back
is.
Are
we
looking
at
a
situation
where
there's
just
simply
not
enough
money
available
to
make
more
of
a
meaningful
impact
with
the
way
the
legislation
directs
that
this
money
goes
I
mean
you
you're,
required
to
turn
over
all
the
excess
money?
Is
my
understanding,
correct.
F
C
A
G
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
just
wanted
to
make
a
quick
comment
thanking
Mary
and
the
staff
at
the
lottery
for
the
good
work
that
that
they
do
on
behalf
of
the
Commonwealth
of
citizens.
It's
it's!
G
It's
been
a
you
know
a
pleasure
working
with
you
all
and
there's
there's
a
lot
of
money
and
obviously
the
it's
up
to
the
legislature
to
to
figure
out
where
it
goes
and
just
to
follow
up
on
a
little
bit
of
of
what
Senator
Howe
had
to
say,
I
think
when
this
Keys
program
begun-
and
you
know,
representative
Birch
can
probably
tell
us
as
I
think
the
money
largely
covered
the
entire
tuition
to
go
to
an
in-state
University.
G
So
there's
a
lot
to
unpack
there
with
regards
to
the
inflation,
as
you
mentioned,
but
I
think
there's
also
a
lot
of
options
in
the
education
world
to
look
at
I.
Don't
know
if
it's
five
or
six
years
you're
eligible
to
use
that
money.
When
you
go
to
college,
maybe
it
should
be
four
and
you
can
increase
the
amount
that
students
get
other
ways
to
make
sure
that
it's
being
used
wisely
and
and
maybe
help
increase
and
keep
those
students
here.
So
thank
you.
Mr
chairman
you're.
A
Welcome
representative
cook.
H
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
also
dealing
with
the
keys
money,
one
to
address
a
little
problem
that
I
have
with
it.
Sorry
hiding
behind
the
post
here,
but
I
think
there's
a
strong
stereotype,
I,
don't
just
think
I
know,
there's
a
strong
stereotype
in
our
high
schools
right
now
and
the
push
to
push
kids
to
go
and
get
that
four-year
degree.
H
There
are
plenty
of
kids
and
I
ran
a
bit
last
year
on
this
I'm
going
to
keep
keep
working
on
it
as
well:
technical
schools,
vocational
schools,
like
representative
Meredith,
said
EMS,
schools
I
think
it
I
think
we
need
to
take
a
good,
hard
look
and
open
up
that
Keys
money
to
be
available
for
those
students,
because
there
are
some
absolute
wonderful
careers
I'm
a
product
of
that
myself.
So
thank
you.
H
A
I
C
I
Well,
I
wish
you
knew
that,
but
I
think
I'm
going
to
posit
that
it's
it's
pretty
low
and
I
wonder
if
we
didn't
increase
the
minimum
GPA
to
like
a
3.0
and
increase
the
ACT
score.
If
then,
getting
at
the
situation
that
Senator
Howe
said,
you'd
have
more
money
to
give
the
kids
who
are
deserving
of
Merit,
Scholarships
and
I.
Just
wonder
if
you
know
giving
a
little
bit
of
money
to
see
students
isn't
really
getting
away
from
the
definition
of
a
true
merit
scholarship.
I
I
think
staff's
trying
to
yeah
2.5
GPA
and
at
least
a
15
on
the
ACT
I
mean
those
aren't
merit
awards.
You're.
I
Participation
Awards
and
we're
and
we're
doing
a
disservice
to
the
kids
who
score
high
on
their
act
and
work
hard
to
get
a
GPA,
that's
a
b
or
better,
and
that
gets
to
the
point
where
these
Awards
have
become
de
minimis
I
think
we
ought
to
consider
changing
it.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
you're
welcome
Senator
Higdon.
J
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
Mary,
thank
you
and
your
team
for
always
being
accessible.
If
there's,
if
there's
an
issue,
Senator
Howell
talked
about
his
peer
group.
My
peer
group
is
retailers
and
I
always
wanted
to
put
a
plug
in
for
them
for
fee
increases
that
are
what
they
what
they
get
paid
to
to
do
the
lottery.
It's
been
five
percent
and,
of
course,
their
volume
has
increased,
but
my
question:
it's
about
I,
hear
a
lot
of
commercials
about
your
online
Lottery.
You
can
buy
a
lottery
ticket
online.
J
K
J
Okay,
what
is
the
percentage
of
online
sales
now
compared
to
in-store
or
retail
sales
for.
C
C
We
pay
a
vendor
to
operate
the
system
because
there's
a
system
of
player
accounts
and
geolocation
and
other
functions
that
are
necessary
to
operate
that
channel.
Okay,.
J
A
Hear
you
thank
you
and
now
I'm
going
to
turn
the
page,
I
and
I
know
I've
talked
to
you
all
about
this
before,
and
that
is
the
way
the
numbers
are
selected
and
I
know
during
Covey
you
got
away
from
using
the
I
call
them
the
ball
machines
for
lack
of
a
better
and-
and
you
got
away
from
that
and
the
computer
started.
A
Selecting
numbers
and
I've
asked
about
this
numerous
times
and
I've
been
assured
about
the
Integrity
of
those
computers,
selecting
the
numbers,
but
for
me
and
I
know,
you've
done
a
study
and
and
the
public
was
satisfied
with
the
computers
doing
the
numbers
I
take
issue
with
that
I
know
where
I
live.
We
don't
have
that
kind
of
trust
and
the
computers
might
be
fine,
but
there
was
also
some
entertainment,
entertainment
value
in
that
and
I
just
think.
A
It's
one
more
thing
that
we
did
away
with
because
of
covet,
and
then
we
decided
well
we're
going
to
just
keep
on
doing
that
way
and
I.
Just
don't
think
it's
the
best
way
to
do
it
number
one
for
the
Integrity
of
the
game.
Number
two
for
the
entertainment
of
the
citizens
of
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky
I.
Think
it's
a
big
perception
problem
and
I
think
once
the
citizens
become
aware
of
this,
it
is
going
to
be
an
issue.
What
say
you.
C
Well,
thank
you
chairman
schickel,
and
you
might
have
mentioned
this
to
me
before
so
I
had
a
little
bit
of
a
heads
up.
This
was
coming.
We
provided
a
handout
in
your
packets
and
it
has
the
label
digital,
drawing
update
if
I
make
and
I
walk
through
that.
Just
real,
quick
I
think
it
would
provide
some
background.
That
would
be
very
enlightening
on
our
use
of
automated
drawings.
C
So
on
slide,
two
is
a
little
bit
of
the
background
concerning
our
use
of
digital
drawings.
So
you
hear
words
like
RNG:
that's
random
number,
generator
or
digital
drawing.
Those
are
just
fancy
terms
for
the
automated
drawing
and
just
the
short
simple
story
is
we
went
to
automated
drawings
because
in
the
beginning,
for
the
same
reason
as
just
about
every
other
industry
goes
to
automated
functions,
it's
to
reduce
the
human
error,
it's
to
increase
efficiency,
it's
to
decrease
costs
and
it's
to
make
Innovation
possible
and
for
us
it
offered
heightened
integrity
and
security.
C
Well,
okay,
so
the
story
is
a
little
more
complicated
than
that.
We,
as
set
out
on
slide
two.
We
actually
started
using
an
RNG
18
years
ago.
We
decided
that
every
new
draw
game
that
we
started
would
use
an
RNG,
and
so
therein
one
at
a
time
we
could
see
how
it
worked
and
get
players
accustomed
to
it.
So
I
think
we
actually
run
a
total
of
eight
games
with
RNG
by
the
time
covet
hit.
You
know,
draw
games
come
and
go
so
by
the
time
covet
hit.
C
We
were
only
using
ball
machines
for
three
games:
that's
our
popular
Pick,
3
game,
Pick,
Four
game
and
cash
ball.
Those
were
the
only
three
games
left
using
ball
machines,
so
we
also
wanted
to
know
in
connection
with
chairman
schickel's
question.
We
also
wanted
to
know
this
again.
Just
recently
like
two
weeks
ago,
we
asked
other
lotteries
what
they
were
doing
and
of
the
46
lotteries
in
the
contiguous
U.S
44
responded
and
43
used
RNG
drawings
for
some
or
all
of
their
drawing.
C
So
it's
a
very
common
use
in
other
lotteries
and
they're
also
used
in
our
other
operations
as
well.
Many
folks,
when
they
purchase
tickets,
they
say
give
me
a
quick
pick.
The
numbers
are
generated
for
them.
Those
are
also
generate
Guided
by
RNG,
so
very
common
in
the
lottery
industry
and
on
slide
three
just
a
few
background
facts
about
what
we've
been
doing
as
far
as
using
RNG.
So
chairman
schickel's
right
something
happened
during
covet.
You
know
remember
where
we
were
in
April
2020.
C
If
you
don't
stop
that,
so
we
had
to
think
of
something
to
do
and
we
had
to
think
of
it
quick
and
it
was
easy
enough
to
move
those
gangs
to
the
RNG
because
they
had
already
been
back
up
for
those
games
as
well
as
used
for
a
number
of
our
other
games
and
chairman
schickles
also
correct.
We
did
not
move
back.
We
didn't
make
that
decision
at
the
time.
Of
course,
we
made
a
quick
decision
based
on
the
health
department
being
there,
but
over
the
past
two
and
a
half
years.
C
It's
offered
many
advantages
to
us
and
primarily
heightened
security
and
integrity.
So
on
slide
four,
you
can
see
a
little
bit
of
a
snapshot
of
what
our
game
situation
looked
like
both
before
and
after
the
switch
in
covet.
So
what
you
can
see
is
we
did
change
Pick,
3
and
Pick
Four
and
cash
ball
from
ball
machine
drawings
to
the
RNG,
but
Powerball
and
Mega
Millions
just
talked
about
Powerball
being
so
high.
Those
are
still
drawn
with
balls
and
machines.
We
don't
do
that.
C
Those
are
multi-state
games,
Florida,
Lottery
draws
Powerball
and
Georgia
Lottery
draws
Mega
Millions
and
those
probably
will
be
for
the
immediate
future
still
drawn
that
way,
but
I
can
tell
you.
Both
groups
have
talked
about
changing
to
RNG
as
well.
Lucky
for
Life
is
another
game.
That's
multi-state.
They
went
to
RNG
that
group
that
we've
participated
in
went
to
RNG
in
2021,
and
then
you
have
Keno
and
cash
pop.
Those
are
two
games
that
have
always
been
run
by
the
RNG
and
cannot
be
run
with
ball
machines
because
they
run
every
four
minutes.
C
So
it's
just
not
possible
and
you
can
see
the
revenues
that
are
generated
from
those
games
there
very
important
to
our
Revenue
stream
and
can
only
be
generated
through
RNG
drawings
and
then
on
Slide
Five.
Just
a
list
I
don't
need
to
go
through
all
of
them,
but
it's
a
list
of
the
integrity
and
security
controls
that
are
in
place
with
both
our
ball
machine
drawings
and
the
RNG
or
digital
drawing
system.
You
can
see
they're
very,
very,
very
similar
and
I
invite
anybody
to
come
down.
We
don't
have
anybody.
C
A
A
Come
down
and
take
a
look,
I
appreciate
the
invitation.
I
believe
Senator.
Do
you
have
a
question?
Yes,.
L
I
may
I
just
want
to
follow
up
on
what
Senator
schickel
said.
I
wasn't
going
to
say
anything,
but
with
with
the
Powerball,
as
you
put
out
being
as
high
as
it
is,
I
was
seeing
something
online
on
Tuesday
that
that
really
kind
of
surprised
me
and
worried
me
so
I
will
bring
it
up
now.
It
was
talking
about
what
numbers
appear
more
frequently
than
others
and
and
I
would
think
in
in
the
fairest
game
possible.
L
They
would
all
be
the
same
that
you
you'd
have
random
numbers
that
they
were
all
relatively
the
same,
but
but
but
to
see
that
some
numbers,
you
know,
have
an
appearance
rate.
You
know
that
that's
just
that
is
statistically
significant
kind
of
shocked
me
on
that,
and
so
I
would
ask
you
to
go
back
and
and
talk
to
other
states
and
see
if
there's
some
way
where,
where
that
can
be
fixed,
so
that
I
know
they
talked
about
the
Powerball
number
17
appearing.
You
know,
you
know,
statistically
more
frequently
than
others.
I
mean
I.
A
And
just
to
follow
up
to
the
senator
I,
don't
have
any
worries
about
the
Integrity
of
the
game.
What
I
have
worries
about
is
number
one.
The
perception
and
your
your
own
testimony
to
me
kind
of
convinces
me
of
what
I'm
saying,
because
what
you're
saying
is
really
the
bigger
games.
The
multi-state
games
and
in
the
past
are
big
games
in
Kentucky.
They
they
use
the
the
balls
and
the
other
ones
were
were
automated.
That
seems
to
me,
like
a
pretty
good
balance.
Really
I
know
you
have
a
lot
of
games
and
you're.
A
C
It
it
was
an
entirely
different
ball
game
back
then
people
watched
those
drawings
on
television,
but
it
got
to
the
point
where
no
one
was
watching
and
the
TV
stations
did
not
want
to
air
those
drawings
anymore,
because
no
one
was
watching.
So
they
came
off
the
air.
At
that
point
we
began
to
stream
those
live.
A
I
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
I'd
like
to
joined
the
course
with
Senator
schickel
and
say
I
I
prefer
the
old
style
ball
games
too,
but
I'm
admitted
old-fashioned,
so
I
mean
I
still
own
a
five
disc,
CD
changer.
So
there
you
go.
I
I
have
a
question
about
something
I
heard
recently
that
the
lottery
might
be
looking
into
some
form
of
paramutual
game,
and
you
may
have
presented
it
in
at
a
industry
conference
in
Las
Vegas.
Is
this
just
a
bad
rumor
or
is
it
true.
I
I,
don't
know
anything
about
good,
because
the
paramutual
wagering
is
the
purview
of
the
horse,
racing
industry
and
I'd
hate
to
see
the
lottery
try
to
get
into
that
business.
Yes,
one
final
question:
you
still
have
the
same
position
on
Banning
gray
games
that
you
had
when
you
came
before
this
committee
last
year.
C
We
felt
like
we
needed
to
advise
the
general
assembly
about
what
we
were
seeing
this
time
last
year
and
we
did
that
and
the
there
was
no
ban
passed.
So
we
are
concentrating
on
running
the
lottery.
The
best
way
we
can,
for
the
time
being,
those
gray
machines
are
still
where
they
are
and
we
are
working
on
I
think
there
was
a
numerous
comments
made.
You
just
need
to
compete
with
them.
So
that's
what
we'll
do.
A
Represent
bratcher,
you
have
the
last
say,
Okay.
M
Real
quick,
just
I,
don't
know
if
this
committee's
ever
talked
about
the
mcmillion
scam
and
where
McDonald's
Monopoly
was
scammed
and
it
was
considered
one
of
the
most
Fail-Safe
security
systems
games
in
the
world.
And
so
my
question
is
this:
has
there
ever
been
any
kind
of
and
I'll
just
say
the
word,
because
I
can't
think
of
an
alternative
cheating
in
any
kind
of
lottery
games
or
whatnot
in
the
whole
United
States
that
you're,
aware
of
or
maybe
the
whole
world
in
modern
times.
C
A
Thank
you
you're
welcome,
thank
you
for
being
here
and
we
appreciate
it
and
I'm
sure
you'll
be
hearing
more
and
it's
good
to
have
you
here.
Thank
you.
A
We
are
going
to
at
this
time,
I'm
being
told
we
need
to
approve
the
minutes
from
the
last
meeting.
I'll
entertain
a
motion,
I
hear
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes
and
the
second
all
those
in
favor
use
the
voting
sign
of
I.
Anyone
opposed
like
sign.
Let
the
record
reflect
that
the
minutes
have
been
approved.
A
To
this
committee
and
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
proceed
with
your
testimony,
you
have
10
minutes
allotted
for
your
testimony.
E
A
E
A
Before
before
he
proceeds
and
correct
me
Sheila
or
Steve,
if
I'm
wrong,
because
I
want
to
make
sure
we
get,
you
know
to
what
what
has
been
asked
for
lack
of
a
better
word,
the
controversy
that
we
I
don't
want
to
use
up
all
our
time.
We
don't
have
time
to
talk
about
what
I
perceive
is
the
question
that
is
on
your
mind,
and
that
is
the
the
the
the
issue
of
jurisdiction
right.
A
N
A
good
idea,
I
got
the
message:
we're
I'm
the
executive
director
of
carp,
Association
of
12
or
14
Community,
Mental,
Health
Centers.
The
question
is
was
framed,
really
is:
is
the
cmhc
it's
a
regional
system?
Is
it
a
regional
license?
Our
position
is
that
it
is
a
regional
license
that
license
is
valid
within
the
region,
delineated
on
the
map
you
saw
earlier.
We
base
that
upon
existing
statute
and
existing
regulation,
krs-210
370,
485
delineates,
the
role,
the
stat
and
that's
there's
14
stats
in
that
area.
N
N
Two
regulations
promulgated
by
the
department,
Behavioral
Health,
Developmental,
intellectual
disabilities.
We
have
a
close
relationship
with
them.
We
are
their
Network
throughout
the
Commonwealth.
We
provide
their
services
under
contract
with
them
two
regulations,
one
reference,
Regional
One
reference,
geographical
catchment
area.
Our
position
has.
O
N
Statutorily
and
regulatorily,
we
are
a
regional
model.
Our
license
is
valid
in
that
region.
To
date,
what
is
lacking
is
the
lineation
of
the
counties
in
each
region,
either
in
statute
or
regulation.
We
attempted
this
conversation,
General
Assembly
2018,
with
representative
Meredith
assistance
to
clearly
State
Which
counties
are
in
which
region
and.
N
P
A
Is
that
there
are
mental
health
centers
that
are
taking
patients
from
outside?
There.
N
A
K
E
There
are
two
entities:
there
are
two
entities
that
provide
Mental,
Health
Services,
Under
DMS
one
are
the
cmhcs,
the
other,
what
we
call
bhsos,
Behavioral
Health
Service
organizations
of
which
they're
156
and
they
are,
they
are
all
over
the
state
and
they
provide
very
limited
but
good
mental
health
services.
Our
point
is
that
if
a
cmhc
goes
into
other
regions
and
says
they
are
a
cmhc,
they
are
number
one
paid
at
a
higher
rate
and
people
assume
that
they
are
providing
the
full
range
of
services
which
they
are
not.
E
They
also
are
not
available
to
provide
24
7
crisis
Services,
which
is
really
what
you
count
on
your
CMH
season,
your
public
behavioral
health
safety
net
to
provide.
So
it's
not
a
matter
of
Personnel,
it's
a
matter
of
what
is
their
license
when
they're
operating
outside
of
their
region
and
our
contention
is
that
they
should
be
operating
as
a
BH
hso,
because
that's
the
service
that
they
are
providing
in
those
counties
in
those
56,
57
counties,
correct.
P
N
Not
limiting
access
the
bill
that
was
introduced
and
passed
by
the
house
creates
a
vehicle
for
those
centers
to
become
a
Behavioral
Health
Service
organization.
What
we
are
doing
is
protecting
access
to
services
in
all
120
counties
and
the
obligation
that
Mental
Health
Centers
have
in
those
communities.
For
example,
tornadoes
in
in
last
December
the
Senate
I
got
a
text.
Are
the
centers
prepared
to
respond
flooding?
Are
the
centers
prepared
to
respond?
That
is
what
we
do
in
addition
to
services,
so
we're
not
restricting
access
to
Services
we're
saying
get
the
appropriate
license.
N
If
you
do
that,
because
you're,
not
a
mental
health
center
there
that
centers
out
of
region,
they
did
not
have
an
obligation
to
respond
to
community
crises,
it
makes
us
different.
The
Behavioral
Health
Organization
perfectly
the
secretary
last
week
at
the
cabinet,
Health
and
Family
Service
structure,
operation,
Administration
task
force,
said
centers
that
wish
to
go
out
of
the
region
should
do
so
as
a
bhso.
So
the
cabinet
secretary
supports
that
premise
are
get
the
license,
provide
the
services.
We're
not
saying
you
can't.
N
A
As
usual,
questions
people
would
then
think
of
other
questions,
and
we
have
representative
Meredith
and
then
after
that,
Senator
Howe.
Thank.
Q
You
very
much
Mr,
chairman
I,
think
the
key
here
is
it's
not
about
limiting
the
service
being,
provided
it's
about
making
sure
as
cmhcs
get
a
higher
rate
of
pay
for
providing
wraparound
full
24-hour
seven
day
a
week
coverage
here.
What
the
two
that
are
operating
outside
of
their
area
are
doing
is
they're
using
the
loophole
of
what
they
are.
They
are
in
their
region
to
get
a
higher
rate
of
pay
outside.
R
Q
A
F
Just
to
follow
up
on
representative
Meredith's
comment
there,
the
the
natural
extension
of
that
we
use
colloquial
terms.
Does
it
allow
them
to
kind
of
come
in,
and
cherry
pick
Services
right,
and
then
that
weakens
the
people
that
are
having
to
provide
the
wraparound
Services.
It
weakens
their
fine
fiscal
viability,
so
they
can't
hire
as
many
people
and
take
care
of
that
and
would
require
them
to
be
bhso
force
them
to
provide
all
wraparound
services.
And
no
would
it
not.
E
So
yeah
and
I
think
you've
hit
on
it.
Senator
Howe
there's
very
thin
margins
for
the
cmhcs,
and
you
can
imagine
that
if
you're
providing
wraparound
services
for
someone
with
a
severe
mental
illness
you're,
it's
costing
you
much
more
to
provide
that
service
than
say
providing
services
in
a
school.
E
F
So
really,
what
we're
seeing
is
a
lot
like
our
prior
presentation,
a
lot
of
in
a
lot
of
ways.
A
lot
of
things
we
see
seem
to
be
one
thing
like
that:
we
need
more
services.
So
what
is
the
harm
of
letting
people
broaden
out?
But
then,
when
you
dig
down
a
couple
of
layers
and
peel
off
a
couple
layers
of
that
onion,
we
showed
that
it
actually
restricts
access
to
Services
because
it
weakens,
though,
those
entities
that
are
struggling
to
make
it
Anyway
by
taking
some
of
the
revenue
stream
out.
Okay,
exactly
thank
you.
S
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
Steve
Sheila,
thanks
for
being
here,
which
which
organization
is
actually
causing
the
issue.
Mountain
Comprehensive,
Care
Center
mountain
is
okay
and
what
counties
are
they
extending
into
they.
S
N
S
S
Years:
here's
what
I'm
asking
we
have
one
bad
actor
and
we're
looking
at
a
legislative
change
that
might
not
that
might
have
more
significance
than
we
necessarily
anticipate.
Is
there
a
better
lever
to
pool
on
and
in
fact,
I
worked
with
the
previous
Bashir
Administration
when
we
had
all
that
trouble
with
Seven
Counties.
B
N
Brief
history,
we
started
this
conversation
with
the
cabinet.
We
initially
we
were
asked
to
submit
a
letter
in
16..
We
had
conversations
in
19,
maybe
18
after
the
legislation
to
do
a
regulatory.
S
S
T
T
Okay;
okay;
okay,
because
that
really
addressed
the
issue
of
the
CMA
cmhcs,
who
were
going
out
of
their
district
and
allowed
them
to
through
coordination
with
the
cabinet,
or
you
know,
really
getting
approval
for
it
to
to
go
into
another
region.
If
a
need
was
not.
A
Very
much
so
thank
you
and
thank
you
for
being
here.
We
appreciate
it
always
good
to
see
you
too
thank.
A
Very
much
we
appreciate
your
attention.
You're
very
welcome.
I
want
I
share
with
the
members.
We
have
two
members
at
one
to
add
things
to
the
agenda
that
are
currently
not
on
your
agenda
and
I
always
give
difference
to
members
on
the
committee.
So
we're
going
to
go
ahead
and
try
to
do
that.
Just
so.
Don't
leave
the
next
item
on
the
agenda.
We'll
take
is
number
six
ABC
licensing
fees,
I
see,
Senator
Higdon
is
in
the
queue
and
ready
to
go.
J
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
I,
know
time
is
valuable
in
this
committee.
Thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
to
speak
this
morning.
One
of
the
several
years
ago,
in
a
in
a
committee
meeting
when
a
licensing
fee
through
ABC
was,
was
brought
up.
I
asked
the
question.
The
fee
I
think
was
300.
How
do
we
come
up
with
that
fee?
J
And
the
answer
is
we
don't
know
we
kind
of
reach
up
in
the
air
and
grab
something
what
sounds
good
and
without
any
any
I
guess
background
of
what
it
costs
to
administer
those
fees
and
and
whatnot.
So
this
is.
J
This
is
just
a
a
opportunity
resolution
to
work
with
ABC
to
look
at
those
fees
because
they
are
Revenue
generating
self-sustaining
group
commend
commissioner
Allison
Taylor
and
her
crew
they're
always
available
to
answer
questions,
and
this
is
not
necessarily
directed
at
anything
that's
going
on,
but
just
to
take
a
better
look
at.
J
A
J
That's
correct,
Miss
Campbell
is
here
with
us
today
from
the
cosmetology
board
and
we
we
have
passed
numerous
numerous
compacts
and
this
compact
that
we
were
proposing
today
and
we
don't
have
the
legislation
finished.
Yet
we
have
a.
We
have
the
information
that
we
need,
but
it's
for
a
cosmetology
Compact,
and
this
has
been
requested
by
the
cosmetology
board
and
by
the
the
military
folks,
Kentucky
National
Guard
and
the
regular
army
for
Kentucky
to
be
more
move
us
that
always
trying
to
be
military
friendly.
J
R
No
Mr
chairman,
not
specifically
we're
excited
about
this.
It's
the
first
non-allied,
Health
compact
legislation
to
be
put
together.
We
worked
really
hard
on
it.
The
Department
of
Defense
did
Grant
CSG
the
the
funds
for
that,
and
we
are
sorry
that
we
weren't
here
earlier.
We
just
got
the
final
draft
on
that
language.
This
last.
A
U
As
we
live
longer.
There
must
be
more
nurses
to
care
for
us,
the
current
and
future
of
shortage
guarantees.
We
will
not
have
those
nurses
in
service
unless
we
make
the
commitment
today.
A
recent
study
from
Georgetown
University
reports
that
23
percent
of
nurses,
age,
55
and
older
plan
to
either
leave
nursing
or
reduce
their
volume
of
clinical
work.
U
U
One
of
the
major
issues
the
K
A
wants
to
address
is
the
inclusivity
of
all
nurses
in
addressing
the
shortage.
We
realize
that
if
nurses
stay
local
and
serve
their
Community,
they
deserve
recognition,
regardless
of
where
they
work.
The
list
includes
Hospital
nurses,
hospice,
long-term
care,
nurses,
anestheticists,
School
nurses,
Public
Health
nurses,
Rehabilitation
nurses,
those
who
work
in
doctor's
office,
aprns
and,
of
course,
nurse
Educators
nurses.
U
Shortages
of
nurses
are
occurring
wherever
nurses
work
one
year
ago,
the
K
A
surveyed
nurses
throughout
Kentucky,
in
order
to
identify
what
is
currently
most
important
to
Kentucky
nurses
regarding
work,
safety,
emotional
health,
physical
health
and
professional
stability.
While
confronting
the
challenges
of
the
covid-19
pandemic
and
a
sample
of
over
of
850
nurses,
the
sample
was
rich
with
experience
with
61
possessing
21
to
more
than
30
years
of
experience.
U
One-Fourth
of
the
sample
indicated
it
was
likely
they
would
leave
their
current
position
within
the
next
three
months.
That's
critical
three-fourths
were
unsure
or
unlikely
to
leave
soon.
Respondents
identified
both
financial
and
non-financial
implications
for
the
nursing
profession.
It's
understood
that
many
of
the
identified
factors
rely
heavily
on
the
availability
of
financial
resources
in
order
to
support
the
nursing
Workforce.
Such
this
availability
of
additional
staff,
highly
rated
explanations,
have
financial
implications
included
in
sufficient
nursing
and
support
staff
and
not
enough
pay
or
financial
incentives.
U
Those
were
primary
contributors
to
the
nursing
shortage
in
Kentucky
for
73
percent,
cited
lack
of
sufficient
nursing
staff,
heavy
patient
loads
and
41
cited
not
enough.
Pay.
Nurses
also
offered
non-financial
explanations,
such
as
exhaustion,
lack
of
breaks,
lack
of
support,
lack
of
voice
and
influence
as
contributing
factors
to
the
nursing
shortage.
U
U
U
Just
recently,
the
Kentucky
hospitals
Association
released
a
report
stating
that
hospitals
in
Kentucky
will
need
13,
000
nurses
just
to
staff
existing
needs.
Currently,
in
conclusion,
the
K
A
ask
is
to
show
nurses
that
they
are
of
value
and
appreciated
by
doing
any
or
all
of
the
following
and
share
with
your
colleagues,
your
neighbors
and
your
friends
start
and
keep
the
conversation
going
that
it
costs
forty
six
thousand
dollars
to
replace
an
existing
nurse.
U
That's
reported
by
the
Becker's
Hospital
review
turnover
and
the
loss
of
the
nurse
is
very
costly.
How
do
we
retain
nurses
that
we
already
have
if
we
now
need
16
000
nurses
to
fill
the
shortage
and
it
costs
46
000
nurses
to
replace
that
vacancy?
That's
astronomical
health
care
cost
work
with
Healthcare
administrators
to
ensure
they
are
valuing
nurses
by
including
them
in
decision
making.
H
U
Ask
health
care
administration,
colleagues
what
they
are
doing
to
retain
their
current
Force
assist
patient
and
families
with
access
to
care
issues
by
considering
lifting
restrictions
on
APR
and
practice
help
Kentucky
retain
their
aprns,
help
keep
nurses
safe
on
the
job,
focusing
on
workplace
safety
initiatives,
invite
nurses
to
answer
questions
and
propose
Solutions.
The
shortage
of
nurses
is
far
from
over
and
we
must
start
with
the
retention
of
nurses.
A
U
U
T
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
your
presentation.
It's
always
helpful
as
a
as
a
retired
nurse
to
get
an
update.
Although
this
is
not.
This
is
not
a
very
cheerful
update.
I'm
wondering
you,
you
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
survey
that
was
done
and
you
ran
through
the
numbers.
T
Can
you
provide
that
survey
and
the
results
to
the
the
committee,
so
we
can
actually
take
a
look
at
at
what
those
responses
are
and
absolutely
and
the
you
know
the
various
breakdowns,
because
I'm
curious
about
the
breakdown
between
the
practice
of
nursing
by
RNs,
bsns
in
hospitals
and
various.
You
know
practice
areas
versus
the
practice
of
aprns
I'd
like
to
see
you
know
the
breakdown
in
numbers
and
where
the
actual
shortages
in
in
you
know
hospital
care.
T
And
then
my
question
is:
do
you
attribute
the
the
shortage
in
nursing,
no
matter
where
it
is?
What
to
what
do
you
attribute?
That
is
it
population
growth?
Is
it?
Is
it
aging
population?
Is
it
the
increased
Acuity
of
of
our
patient
population?
What
do
you
see?
I.
T
U
T
Thank
you
so
I
mean
a
couple
of
things,
but
I
guess
my
primary
question
would
be
do
you.
You
know
many
hospitals
are
requiring
that
that
our
RNs
with
a
BSN
go
on
to
get
their
masters
or
PhD
I
mean.
Do
you
see
that
that's
contributing
to
some
of
our
our
basic
health
care
needs.
U
So
again,
I
think
that
that
has
ebbed
and
flow,
especially
with
the
crisis.
During
the
covid
pandemic,
we
hit
a
period
of
time
where
our
hospitals
were
requiring,
especially
with
striving
for
magnet
recognition.
They
were
requiring
for
higher
levels
of
educated
nurses.
Now,
with
the
nursing
crisis,
we
are
seeing
higher
LPN
utilizations
in
our
acute
care
hospitals
which
is
helping
to
fill
the
vacancy.
T
Yeah
I,
understand
and-
and
you
know,
I
I
would
love
to
help
with
the
pipeline,
the
talent
pipeline
finding
a
way
to
increase
this
again.
This
is
one
of
these
topics
that
we
talk
about
in
every
committee.
It
seems
so
you
know
I
think
that
there
are
curriculum
issues.
I,
think
that
you
know
that
it
is
multifaceted,
but
I.
Thank
you
for
for
this
presentation.
I
look
forward
to
taking
a
look
at
the
survey
to
to
really
dig
down
on
this.
Absolutely
all
right.
Thanks
Senator.
V
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
Miss
Welch
I,
want
to
thank
you
so
very
much
for
being
with
us
this
morning.
I
do
want
you
to
know
that
no
one
in
the
general
assembly,
whatever
question
our
nurses,
education
level,
their
knowledge
or
their
dedication
to
their
profession,
so
I
just
want
to
take
that
off
the
table.
So
you
know
we
don't
have
to
have
a
lot
of
conversation
about
that.
V
You
indicated
that
25
percent,
at
least
the
study
did
in
October
2021
of
the
nurses,
said
that
they
were
likely
or
extremely
likely
to
leave
their
job.
Can
you
give
me
any
information
on
what
that
percentage
actually
left
in
those
three
months.
A
U
A
O
O
O
The
legislation
that's
before
you
is
the
intent
of
the
ACT
is
to
guarantee
the
professional
conduct
on
a
part
of
Musical
music
therapists
to
assure
the
highest
degree
of
professional
I'm,
sorry
to
ensure
the
highest
degree
of
professional
conduct
on
the
part
of
Musical
music
therapists
to
guarantee
the
availability
of
Music
Therapy
Services,
provided
by
qualified
professional
to
persons
in
need
of
those
services
and
to
protect
the
public
from
the
practice
of
music
therapy
by
unqualified
individuals.
This
particular
bill
will
create
a
licensing
board
for
professional
music
therapists.
O
It
will
prohibit
any
person's
not
licensed
under
this
board
from
holding
himself
or
herself
out
as
being
a
licensed
professional,
music
therapist,
and
it
will
authorize
the
board
to
promulgate
administrative
regulations
necessary
to
carry
out
the
provisions
of
this
act.
I
may
point
out
that
there
are
15
other
states
that
have
gone
in
this
particular
direction.
O
It's
consistent
with
what
we
now
do,
as
it
relates
to
Art
therapists
and
the
protocol
and
regimen
that
is
before
you
or
is
being
offered,
is
consistent
with
what
we
do
and
when
we
deal
with
the
questions
of
our
establishing
licensing
boards.
A
O
O
I
would
certainly
offer
the
opportunity
if
you.
W
Yes,
thank
you
chair
Ben,
my
name
is
Katie
Cowan
I
am
the
co-chair
of
the
Kentucky
music
therapy
task
force
and
I
currently
work
as
a
professional
music
therapist
at
Norton
Healthcare
in
Louisville
Kentucky
I
want
to
start
off
by
saying
thank
you
for
Senator
Neil
for
inviting
me
today
and
for
the
members
of
the
community
for
listening
he's.
W
Music
therapy
is
an
established
and
evidence-based
Healthcare
profession.
We
work
in
hospitals,
hospice
agencies
and
schools.
Music
therapy
allows
premature
infants
to
thrive,
supports
the
recovery
of
our
military
veterans
and
helps
decrease
pain
and
nausea
for
our
kentuckians
battling
cancer.
W
There
are
currently
two
programs
in
our
state
educating,
professional
music
therapists.
This
would
be
the
University
of
Louisville
and
University
of
Kentucky,
and
our
desired
outcome
is
to
increase
access
to
safe
and
competent
music
therapy
services
for
individuals
throughout
our
state.
As
Senator
Neil
said.
Currently,
there
are
15
states
that
recognize
our
professional.
W
New
things,
thank
you,
I
will
not
our
most
recent
state
to
represent
State
licensure
is
Illinois
in
2022..
Licensure
has
a
positive
impact
on
employment.
Opportunities
for
Professionals
in
our
state
creates
jobs
for
new
graduates
from
our
in-state
institutions.
It
also
provides
quality
music
therapy
services
to
our
kentuckians.
This
bill
is
important
because
it
allows
for
licensure
of
board-certified
Music
therapists
after
they
have
completed
An,
approved
degree
program
and
the
necessary
1200
hours
of
clinical
training.
It
creates
a
board
of
licensure
foreign.
W
A
L
I
personally
know
that
the
University
of
Kentucky's
medical
system,
both
the
Marquis
Cancer
Center,
their
Kentucky's
Children's
Hospital
and
their
other
Hospital
facilities,
use
musical
therapy
in
the
treatment
of
patients
and
and
I,
can
tell
you
the
patients
really
appreciate
that
it
has
shown
tremendous
benefits
to
the
patients
that
come
through
the
UK
Medical
Center,
and
it's
been
a
real
Plus
for
for
the
medical
center
in
the
patients
that
that
they
see
and
they
treat
so.
This
is
this.
Does
work
and
I
applaud
you
for
bringing
this
Bill.
Thank
you.
A
A
Don't
forget
next
meeting
is
10
o'clock,
not
11
o'clock.
Try
to
be
here
we'll
be
honoring
the
members
that
are
leaving
the
committee
without
objection.
We
standard.