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A
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please
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B
B
E
B
B
B
A
Okay,
thank
you.
We
first
thing
we
need
to
do
is
ask
for
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes.
Most
of
the
second
any
questions
all
in
favor
signify,
saying
aye
all
opposed
by
like
sign.
Okay,
the
meeting
the
minutes
of
the
previous
meeting
are
adopted.
We
want
to
wish
senator
smith
well.
He
was
supposed
to
be
here
today,
but
he
had
some
knee
surgery
and
is
recuperating
from
that,
and
we
wish
him
well
we're
going
to
talk
today
about
economic.
A
So
at
this
time
I
think
we
we
have
a
couple
of
people
at
the
table
to
talk
about
the
economic
development
and
the
role
of
the
fee
in
lieu
of
program.
Would
you
please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
the
floor
is
yours.
I
Yes,
sir,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
members
of
the
committee,
I'm
john
cox,
with
the
kentucky
chamber
of
commerce,
and
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
speak
today
on
an
important
issue
for
the
business
community
at
the
chamber.
We're
focused
on
protecting
and
creating
jobs
in
the
commonwealth,
we're
in
constant
competition
for
those
jobs
and
business
location
with
other
states.
So
when
a
perspective,
business
looks
at
relocating
or
expanding
in
a
certain
region.
One
of
the
many
considerations
for
these
companies
is
each
state's
permitting
process
for
construction.
I
Specifically,
if
construction
of
one
of
these
projects
disturbs
a
stream
or
wetland,
the
federal
clean
water
act
requires
them
to
get
what's
called
a
404
permit
from
the
corps
of
engineers
in
the
last
10
years
about
450
kentucky
development
projects
have
required
these
clean
water
act,
404
permits
and
obtaining
these
permits
can
sometimes
take
years
for
these
companies.
So
the
kentucky
chamber
got
involved
with
this
issue
about
a
year
ago,
when
we
discovered
problems
that
could
occur
in
the
permitting
process
that
could
potentially
deter
companies
from
investing
in
the
commonwealth.
I
The
department
kentucky
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
resources
manages
a
program
that
can
provide
help.
That
program
is
currently
backlogged.
The
kentucky
wetland
and
stream
mitigation
program
is
critical
to
business
in
kentucky
a
business
can
speed
up
the
permit
process
by
paying
the
fee
in
lieu
of
mitigation
to
the
fish
and
wildlife
program,
which
is
why
it's
also
referred
to
as
the
filo
program
and
paying
into
the
filo
program
is
more
expensive
than
other
options,
but
it
speeds
up
the
permitting
process
which
is
critical
for
these
developers
that
are
trying
to
move
projects
forward.
I
In
the
last
published
annual
report
in
2019,
the
program
had
roughly
148
million
dollars
in
filo
funds,
so
the
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
then
has
an
obligation
to
the
federal
government
of
completing
the
stream
mitigation
within
a
three-year
time
frame.
Fish
and
wildlife
allocates
money
to
stream
projects
that
are
often
not
constructed.
I
I
So
we
just
want
to
be
sure
that
the
filo
program
remains
viable
because
limiting
access
to
the
program
can
put
kentucky
at
a
real
competitive
disadvantage.
Fortunately,
there
are
options
that
have
been
used
in
other
states
that
can
ensure
efficiency
that
I
think
you're
going
to
hear
about
a
little
later
on.
The
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
can
join
with
the
private
sector
to
spin
down
its
balance,
address
the
backlog,
get
stream
rest
and
get
stream
restoration
in
the
ground
faster.
I
The
stream
restoration
also
has
the
side
benefit
of
creating
beautiful
wildlife
habitat,
which
we
all
know
is.
You
know
important.
So
by
doing
this,
we
can
help
the
filo
program
get
back
into
compliance
and
again
make
it
available
to
those
northern
and
eastern
kentucky
counties,
thus
creating
good-paying
jobs,
promoting
economic
recovery,
improving
the
environment,
wildlife,
habitat
and
helping
kentucky
grow.
So
at
the
chamber
we
just
want
to
be
a
resource
and
we
want
to
work
with
the
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
to
be
in
the
business
community
to
improve
efficiency
in
this
process.
D
Yes,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
You
know,
as
you
mentioned
earlier,
in
your
presentation,
john,
I
mean
there
is
a
backlog
on
these
applications.
You
know
being
from
eastern
kentucky.
We
have
thousands
of
people
who
are
currently,
you
know
out
of
work
that
might
have
some
experience
in
these
particular
types
of
issues
dealing
with
streams
being
a
part
of
the
mining
industry.
To
what
extent
has
the
would
it
would
assist
the
fish
and
wildlife
department
or
other
state
agencies
to
move
through
this
backlog?
D
If
we
started
to
employ
some
of
those
people
to
get
out
there
and
and
process
these
applications,
so
we
could
get
some
of
this
money
flowing
into
the
region.
It's
my
understanding.
Some
other
states
have
kind
of
followed
that
model
to
to
work
through
their
backlog
and
that
this
would
be
some
be
something
potentially
that
would
help
get
these
funds
back
into
areas
where
they're
needed.
I
G
G
B
Outside
the
state,
that's
one
way
of
getting
our
economy
back
on
track.
I
That's
a
good
question
and
I'm
we're
going
to
talk
about
a
little
more
in
detail,
but
I
I
can
get
back
to
you
on
that
as
well.
I'm
a
bit
green
on
this
topic,
but
you
know
I'm
just
filling
in
for
one
of
my
colleagues
here
at
the
chamber.
So
yes,
sir.
D
K
Can't
answer
it,
I
will
get
back
to
you
sure
we
covered
one
about
our
our
miners
and
putting
them
to
work.
But
why
is
it
these
counties
in
the
east
and
the
northern
part
of
the
state?
Why
is
it
that
they're
not
available
or
able
to
participate
in
this.
I
I
think
you
know
this
is
a
combination
of
factors.
You
know,
I
think
that
there's
some
surface,
you
know
mineral
requirements
too,
but
you
know
I
think
that
there
is
a
backlog
and
and
for
whatever
reason
I
might
look
too
probably,
but
let
me
get
back
to
you
on
that.
K
Do
we
know
what
has
been
done
on
the
backlog
to
my
understanding
is
taking
as
much
as
18
months
or
longer
three
years,
maybe
to
get
these
permits
out
right?
I
think
I
don't
understand
that.
I
K
B
A
A
Okay,
if
you're,
okay,
I'm
sorry,
mr
croom,
you
want
to
introduce
yourself
for
the
and
who
you
represent
for.
F
The
record,
mr
chairman,
members
of
the
committee,
let
me
turn
that
on
first
okay,
mr
chairman,
members
of
the
committee,
my
name
is
lee
croom,
I'm
president
and
ceo
of
northern
kentucky
triad
we're
a
private
company
that
does
economic
development
on
behalf
of
boone,
kent
and
campbell
counties.
Economic
development
is
a
sometimes
fancy
way
of
saying.
We
really
do
two
things.
We
help
companies
either
locate
in
the
commonwealth
or
we
help
existing
companies
expand
in
the
commonwealth.
F
We
take
the
insights
from
that
work
that
we
do
and
then
we
work
with
our
communities
to
create
sustainable
growth
strategies.
Representative
blanton,
your
question
just
a
moment
ago.
The
northern
kentucky
perspective
on
that
is,
there's
a
limit
to
the
amount
of
credits
that
are
regularly
available
for
us,
we're
growing
so
quickly
in
northern
kentucky
and
adding
to
the
state's
economy
that
we
just
keep
bumping
up
against
that
limit
and
the
risk
to
your
point
about
striking.
While
the
iron
is
hot,
we
have
clients
that
are
in
john
talked
about
this
as
well.
F
We
have
clients
that
are
making
location
decisions
on
where
to
invest
and
employ
people,
and
when
they
see
that
math
it
becomes
a
risk
for
them.
We
compete
every
day
against
ohio
and
indiana,
and
their
topography
is
as
flat
as
the
floor
in
front
of
me
and
that
risk
level
is
much
lower
for
them.
So
when
you
introduce
this
into
the
equation
or
you
heighten
it
into
the
equation,
it
absolutely
has
the
effect
that
you're
referring
to
and
that
it
it
can
scare
companies
away.
F
It
can
push
continued
growth
away,
at
least
from
a
northern
kentucky
perspective,
so
so
the
company,
I
that
I
work
for,
as
I
mentioned,
we're
34
years
old
over
the
last
over
that
period
of
time.
We've
helped
over
700
companies
locate
over
70
000
jobs
in
that
period
of
time.
So
we
have
will
have
the
ability
to
provide
you
really
that
lens
of
the
client
and
again
northern
kentucky
just
to
give
some
perspective
on
this.
F
We're
about
400
000
people
in
in
boone,
kent
and
campbell
county
northern
kentucky's,
often
defined
as
nine
counties,
but
I'm
talking
just
about
those
three
we're
400
000
citizens.
So
about
10
percent
of
the
state,
but
we're
near
I'm
sorry
about
five
percent
of
the
state
in
terms
of
population
but
we're
nearly
10
of
the
state
in
terms
of
workforce.
We
have
nearly
200
000
people
that
get
up
and
go
to
work
every
day
inside
the
commonwealth.
So
there's
significant
economic
activity
happening
inside
of
our
community
and
we
from
an
economic
development
perspective
view.
F
This
conversation
is
almost
like
a
virtuous
cycle
where
we
have
development
that
is
occurring.
Somebody
makes
a
location
decision
they
need
permits,
they
buy
permits,
they
build
a
building.
They
employ
people
either
through
a
private
bank
or
through
the
filo
program
that
money
gets
spent
in
wetlands,
which
creates
amenities
for
us
parks,
trails,
creeks,
rivers
that
are
accessible
to
people
which
then
becomes
attractive
to
people
to
move
here.
That
increased
population
then
leads
to
more
development.
F
The
the
key
idea-
and
I
shared
some
information
with
with
the
committee
via
pdf
before
when
northern
kentucky
grows,
kentucky
grows
when
northern
kentuckians
go
to
work.
We
pay
taxes
in
kentucky,
so
we
think
there's
a
real
business
case
to
say
we
need
to
de-risk
this
decision
for
our
clients.
F
Give
you
a
little
bit
of
of
idea
about
that
growth.
We're
not
only
the
fastest
growing
area
of
kentucky
for
this
we're
the
fastest
growing
part
of
the
cincinnati
metropolitan
area,
which
includes
southwest
ohio
and
southeast
indiana.
We
did
an
analysis
last
year,
looking
at
growth
in
the
entire
cincinnati
metro
over
the
next
five
years.
During
that
time,
industrial
development
growth,
which
are
things
like
manufacturing,
flex,
space
distribution,
centers,
the
entire
cincinnati
metropolitan
area,
will
have
growth
of
about
24
million
square
feet.
F
That's
a
nice
number
for
cincinnati
inside
of
that,
and
so
keep
in
mind
we're
about
25
percent
of
the
cincinnati
metro.
68
of
that
growth
in
the
cincinnati
metro
will
occur
in
northern
kentucky.
It's
it's!
It's
just
a
a
really
good
time
for
us.
The
challenge
that
we
have
and
there's
a
map
that
I
share.
That
shows
northern
kentucky
and
it
has
red
circles
on
it.
Can.
L
A
Pull
it
up
or
or
we
can
help
you
do,
that.
A
F
That's
perfect,
it's
much
easier
to
see
now.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
So
you
see
the
map
that
it's
in
front
of
you,
though,
when
we
talk
about
industrial
growth
in
northern
kentucky
northern
kentucky's
a
large
place
geographically,
but
only
these
red
circles
are
appropriate
for
our
clients
to
grow
with
industrial.
F
As
you
move
outside
of
those
red
circles,
there's
some
issue
that
would
affect
the
ability
to
do
industrial
growth
may
be
great
growth
for
homes
or
other
types
of
things,
but
again
the
clients
that
are
going
to
locate
manufacturing
office
space
distribution
centers
they
want
to
be
inside
of
those
red
circles.
We
have
a
very
finite
space
where
we
can
grow
and
we
have
a
window
of
opportunity
where
we're
growing
very
quickly.
So
again,
the
idea
of
de-risking
this
is
is
very
important
to
us.
So
john,
thank
you
for
doing
that.
F
So
again
and
john
mentioned
this.
As
of
as
of
today,
the
nine
counties
of
northern
kentucky
are
out
of
credits
and
cannot
access
a
stream
mitigation
fund
run
by
fish
and
wildlife.
We're
focused,
particularly
on
boone
kenton
county.
F
We
talked
to
one
of
the
developers
in
the
community
and
they
said
establishment
of
new
credit
resources
and
market
competition
of
types
that
you
would
think
are
appropriate
would
reduce
future
escalation
of
mitigation
fees,
increase,
speed
to
market
and
de-risk
these
issues.
One
other
issue,
I'd
like
to
just
touch
on
real
quick,
is
there's
an
opportunity
for
our
clients
to
to
do
mitigation
on-site,
which
may
or
may
not
get
talked
about
today.
Mitigation
on-site
for
us
is
not
an
ideal
situation
and
the
reason
is
you
go
back
and
you
think
about
those
red
circles.
F
We
have
precious
little
land
that
can
be
used
for
industrial
development,
ideally
you're,
not
setting
aside
that
land
for
mitigation
on
site
mitigation.
Onsite
also
adds
a
risk
for
the
ultimate
end
user
of
the
land
to
maintain
that
as
well
as
there
are
places
in
northern
kentucky
where
land
is
selling
for
upwards
of
125
or
30
thousand
dollars
an
acre
in
setting
that
expensive
amount
amount
of
land
aside
for
wetlands
mitigation
is
just
not
attractive
to
these
clients.
So
go
ahead.
John.
F
So
candace
mcgraw
of
c
ceo
of
cvg,
the
the
airport
in
cincinnati,
mentioned
companies
will
not
wait
for
infrastructure
to
be
built
or
will
not
tolerate
being
bogged
down
in
a
bureaucratic
process.
This
is
true.
Next
month,
amazon
prime
air
is
going
to
open
amazon
itself
spent
30
million
dollars
into
the
filo
program.
Had
they
not
had
the
ability
to
quickly
access
those
credits,
they
would
have
gone
somewhere
else.
We
think
that
amazon
will
ultimately
employ
somewhere
in
the
six
to
eight
thousand
person
range
working
at
cvg.
F
F
F
G
A
question
you
know
back
in
fletcher
administration,
secretary,
wilter
and
I've
worked
really
hard
on
a
task
force,
the
on
404
water
issues
and
we
brought
together
the
corps
of
engineers,
and
you
know
we
were
almost
there
on
some
privacy
issues
and
and
this
this
is
a
very
complex,
multi-tiered
federal
state
issue.
G
And
you
know,
of
course
the
environmental
prosecutor
will
go
back
to
the
in
me
will
go
back
to
the
origination
of
the
act.
You
know.
The
reason
this
is
exists
is
because
of
developing
pressure
on
wetlands,
which
wetlands
are
important
to
abate
floods,
maintain
air
water
quality
and
provide
habitat
for
fish
and
wildlife,
and
that's
the
purpose
of
this
portion
of
the
act.
So
you
know
I'm
all
for
spending
the
money.
My
counties
are
adversely
impacted
by
the
present
scenario.
G
So
I
just
feel
that's
important
to
note
this
is
an
environmental
piece
of
legislation
where,
but
development
is
what
caused
the
need
for
this
legislation,
so
there's
a
balance
to
be
struck
here
and
there's
layers
of
compliance,
that's
very
complicated
from
an
administrative
law
standpoint
and
a
statutory
law
standpoint.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
B
Scheckel,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
want
to
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
chairman
smith,
for
putting
this
on
the
agenda.
It
was
actually
put
on
the
agenda
at
my
request.
After
several
constituents
talk
to
me
about
it.
This
has
been
a
very
frustrating
issue
for
northern
kentucky
and
it
just
didn't
come
up.
Yesterday.
It's
been
going
on
for
a
long
time.
I'm
glad
to
see
the
kentucky
chamber
is
finally
going
to
get
involved
in
this,
because
this
is
a
is
an
issue
that
is
stalling
business
in
a
major
part
of
the
state.
B
Northern
kentucky
is
often
referred
to
as
the
economic
engine
or
one
of
the
economic
engines
of
kentucky.
We
pay
taxes
to
frankfort
way
more
than
the
rest
of
the
state
than
the
than
we
receive,
and
we
have
a
cylinder
on
this
engine.
That's
sputtering,
it's
probably
blown
out
because
we
cannot
get
these
per
these
credits
for
our
developments
and
it's
gotten
to
a
situation
where
it's
a
crisis.
B
B
I
want
to
ask
you,
mr
croom,
right
now
today.
If
there
were
let's
say
there
was
a
some
industry
that
was
a
spin-off
of
of
amazon.
Would
there
be
any
credits
for
a
developer
to
to
move
forward
with
the
development
right
now
in
northern
kentucky.
F
Senator
shekel,
I
don't,
I
don't
know
the
exact
balance
of
credits
that
are
available
today.
My
understanding,
that
is,
if
we
had
a
very
large
scale,
development
on
the
likes
of
an
amazon
that
that
would
not.
That
would
not
be
permittable.
Today,
due
to
lack
of
credits,
I'm
told
it's
zero
credits.
A
F
So
I
think,
there's
a
couple
of
issues
here
I
and
I,
and
had
a
chance
to
talk
to
fish
and
wildlife.
Earlier
this
week,
they're
working
with
the
corps
to
create
a
larger
pool
of
credits
to
go
from
currently
about
100
000
to
aspirationally,
maybe
300
000
credits
that
are
available.
That'll
certainly
alleviate
the
front
end
of
that
process,
or
at
least
help
with
the
front
end
of
that
process.
Then
you
really
kind
of
have
the
middle
stream
of
the
project
and
that's
getting
getting
the
money.
That's
spent
john
mentioned
before
this.
F
It's
about
150
million
dollars
that
has
been
paid
into
the
filo
program
that
needs
to
get
to
work,
creating
wetlands,
restorations
and
and
doing
projects
in
the
state.
I
think
fish
and
wildlife
will
probably
talk
about
that
quite
a
bit
over
center
webb.
You
use
the
word
balance.
I
think
it's
incredibly
important.
I
want
to
come
back
to
that.
F
One
of
the
challenges
we
have
in
economic
development.
It's
a
bit
of
a
pivot
is
there's
also
the
people
part
of
the
equation.
Kentucky
needs
to
grow
in
terms
of
people.
We
compete
in
northern
kentucky
every
day
against
geographies
like
columbus
and
indianapolis
and
nashville
that
have
double-digit
population
growths
and
when
they
look
at
us
and
and
we
have,
we
have
attractive
population
growth,
high
single
digits
in
northern
kentucky.
I
think
it
started
at
one
o'clock-
we're
we're
lagging
that's
already
underway
in
that
balance.
Issue
of
having
these
amenities
where
people
can
get
off.
F
In
a
nice,
clean,
creek
or
a
nice
clean
river,
or
they
could
mountain
bike
or
walk
on
a
trail
and
walk
their
dog
is
incredibly
important
and
so
from
a
northern
kentucky
perspective.
We
absolutely
want
to
see
the
balance
of
a
larger
pool
of
available
credits,
senator
schickel
to
your
point,
credits
getting
spent,
making
amenities
in
northern
kentucky,
which
will
then
us
help
us
have
a
beautiful
landscape
where
people
will
locate,
live
and
and
again,
as
senator
shukla
mentioned,
paying
taxes
in
in
the
commonwealth.
A
A
Okay
and
next
one
agenda
is
a
presentation
from
mr
rick
storm,
commissioner
of
the
kentucky
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
and
scott
porter
legal
staff,
for
the
can
for
the
kentucky
department
of
fish
and
wildlife.
Are
you,
gentlemen,
available.
K
Yes,
mr
chairman,
can
you
hear
me?
Yes?
Yes,
we
can
rich
storm
here.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
share
some
information,
some
factual
information
about
the
stream
mitigation
fund
and
philo.
It's
an
active,
vital
part
of
the
department's
mission
to
conserve,
protect
and
enhance
the
fish
and
wildlife
resources
of
the
commonwealth.
K
It
provides
a
mechanism
to
help
ensure
that
land
development
can
occur
more
sustainably
in
compliance
with
the
federal
clean
water
act,
requirement
of
no
net
loss
streams
and
wetlands
kentucky's
filo
program
operates
within
a
mitigation
framework
under
the
control
of
the
u.s
army
corps
of
engineers,
the
agency,
with
federal
statutory
authority
over
the
waters
of
the
united
states
philo
not
only
helps
restore
water
quality
and
habitat
for
our
fish
and
wildlife
resources.
It
supports
kentucky
jobs.
K
Filo
directly
supports
hundreds
of
jobs
in
kentucky
by
putting
millions
of
dollars
into
mitigation
funds
to
work
on
a
variety
of
kentucky.
Companies
phyllo
indirectly
supports
thousands
of
kentucky
jobs
by
supporting
the
huge
outdoor
recreation
of
kentucky
boating,
hunting
fishing
wildlife
watching
all
outdoor
recreation.
K
To
help
understand
the
impact
of
filo.
I'd
like
to
share
a
few
of
the
statistics
today,
filo
has
restored
more
than
130
streams,
130
miles
of
streams
in
kentucky
added.
It
created
6,
300
acres
of
wildlife
management
areas
put
to
work
over
130
different
businesses
in
kentucky
from
title
appraisers
engineers,
construction
and
environmental
companies.
K
K
K
K
Our
goal
is
to
be
able
to
report
back
to
your
committee
early
next
year
with
recommendations
as
far
as
what
we
can
do
at
this
point
in
time,
I'm
going
to
turn
over
the
to
the
department,
rob
lewis
he's
a
professional
engineer,
filo
program
and
scott
scott
porter
general
counsel,
and
I
want
to
say
thank
you
to
all
you
all
on
the
committee
and
I'm
always
available,
and
you
can.
You
can
reach
out
anytime.
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Hopefully,
everything
is
coming
through.
We
have
a
powerpoint
presentation.
We
will
be
trying
to
walk
through
to
share
our
screen.
We
appreciate
this
opportunity
and,
as
the
commissioner
explained
in
his
opening
statement,
we
certainly
have
heard
from
the
industry
and
we
are
committed
to
try
to
find
ways
just
to
help
where
we
can.
E
E
E
We
are
certainly
working
with
the
core
as
we
develop
our
instrument
going
forward
to
increase
that
alignment
which
would
allow
us
more
to
sell.
I
do
think,
there's
something
important
to
point
out
in
what
mr
crooms
one
of
his
first
slides
when
he
showed
that
northern
kentucky.
D
E
Operate
separate
and
independent
from
filo
programs
mitigation
banks,
there
is
nothing
in
statute
or
regulator
or
in
regulation
right
now,
that
is
prohibiting
mitigation
banks
from
being
from
being
developed
in
every
county
in
the
state.
If
businesses
wanted
to
do
that,
and
as
we
go
kind
of
go
through
our
pro
or
our
presentation
will
kind
of
explain
why
and
show
our
our
the
distinctions
between
the
two-
and
there
is
a
lot
of
information
in
this
presentation-
and
the
lawyer
in
me
apologizes
for
that.
E
But
I
knew
with
the
the
guidelines
that
we're
operating
under
that
that
there
would
not
be
people
present
our
representatives
and
senators
present.
They
would
be
participating
remotely.
E
A
E
Yes,
sir
I'll
I'll
try
to
I'll
try
to
go
through
and
hit
the
high
points.
So
we
know
what
the
mission
of
the
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
is
and
there
it
is.
E
So.
The
question
is:
how
does
stream
and
wetland
mitigation
under
the
clean
water
act?
Work
before
permit
can
be
issued
the
core
reviews,
whether
the
impacts
can
be
avoided
minimized
or
when
they
can't
be.
Then
compensatory
mitigation
is
required.
E
The
federal
regulations
establish
standards
and
criteria
for
the
use
of
all
types
of
compensatory
mitigation
to
offset
unavoidable
impacts.
The
waters
of
the
u.s
authorized
by
the
core
through
the
issuance
of
permits
under
either
404
the
clean
water
act
or
section
9
of
the
rivers
and
harbors
act.
The
core
is
the
one
that
determines
the
compensatory
mitigation
to
be
required
in
a
permit,
based
on
what
is
practical
and
capable
of
compensating
for
the
aquatic
resource
functions
that
will
be
lost.
E
When,
when
evaluating
the
compensatory
mitigation
options,
the
core
considers
what
would
be
environmentally
preferable
in
making
the
determination.
The
district
engineer
assesses
likely
the
likelihood
of
ecological
successes
and
sustainability
of
the
location
of
the
compensation
site
relative
to
the
impact
site
and
the
significance
within
the
watershed,
as
well
as
the
costs,
so
that
should
give
us
something
about
the
waters
of
the
union.
E
Go
ahead,
the
types
of
the
compensatory
mitigation,
as
we've
seen,
we've
got
a
before
and
after
picture
of
what
is
done-
and
it's
already
been
touched
on
that
when
develop
a
development
project
occurs,
it
will
cause
a
permanent
loss
or
significant
impairment.
The
court
requires
developers
to
mitigate
the
losses
of
streaming
wetland
through
the
permit
system.
That's
the
issuance
of
the
floor
that
guarantees
the
404
mitigation
is
an
obligation
of
the
permit
that
is
issued.
E
The
permit
the
mitigation
ensures
that
what
is
what
is
affected
by
the
permit
or
the
development
will
be
set
built
will
be
replaced
and
satisfied
the
goals
of
mitigation,
restoration,
establishment,
enhancing
the
preservation
and
then
the
mechanisms
mr
croon
touched
on
the
permit
responsible
mitigation,
that's
done
by
the
actual
permittee.
It
can
either
be
done
on
site
or
it
can
be
done
off-site.
E
E
E
So,
in
a
situation
like
northern
kentucky,
if
mitigation
banks
were
in
existence
outside
of
the
department
of
fee
and
lua,
they
would
be
the
preferential
option.
They
operate,
independent
from
inland
feed
programs,
in
other
words
they
kind
of
operate
on
a.
If
you
build
it,
they
will
come
mentality.
They,
the
banks,
are
there
when
a
company
is
needed,
the
credits
are
available.
E
Then,
if
no
mitigation
bank
in
good
standing
is
available
within
the
service
area,
permittee
applications
are
directed
to
the
nlu
fee
programs
and
then
the
last
is
the
permit
applications.
The
permit
keys
do
their
own
mitigation.
When
no
bank
is
available,
we've
touched
on
that
mitigation
banks
you
can,
they
can
either
be
a
stream
or
a
wetland
mitigation
bank
mitigation
banks
develop
and
create
credits
prior
to
impact,
in
other
words
they
go
out
and
they
restore
a
site
and
they
develop
credits
and
they
hang
on
to
the
credits
until
they
are
needed.
E
The
risky
business
model
for
them,
though,
is
in
certain
areas.
What
happens
if
credits
are
not
needed,
and
we,
the
big
sandy
in
eastern
kentucky,
is
a
certain
is
one
of
those
areas.
There
is
a
mitigation
bank
in
existence,
it
has
credits
to
sell,
but
no
development
is
needed,
whether
we
would
be
obligated,
through
the
army
corps,
to
purchase
those
credits
in
lufio.
That
is
something
we
can
talk
about
when
we
get
to
that
portion,
but
those
banks
are
already
in
existence
and
they're
just
waiting
on
companies
to
to
use
those
those
credits
again.
E
What
one
limiting
factor
for
a
mitigation
site
is,
it
is
a
private
company.
It's
required
to
have
a
permanent
site
protection
instrument
which
imposes
conditions
which
significantly
restrict
the
long-term
use
of
that
site,
and
that
could
limit
it
to
development,
but
and
what
what
is
usually
done
is
a
conservation.
Easement
is
placed
on
that
site
so
which
will
restrict
the
long-term
use
of
that
property.
E
That
gets
us
to
us.
We
are
an
inlu
fees,
sponsor
the
key
portion
about
an
inlu
fee
program
is
our
credits
are
usually
developed
after
the
impact.
Now
we
can
do
and
build
and
develop
advanced
credits,
but
our
credits
are
developed
after
the
fact,
when
there
is
no
mitigation
bank
available
in
an
area,
then
a
company
will
pay
into
an
inland
fee
program,
and
then
it
becomes
the
finley
fee.
Program's
obligation
to
put
those
credits
on
the
ground,
but
I
think
representative
landon
had
the
question.
E
Once
the
money
is
paid
into
the
fee
program
that
permit
can
be
issued
and
that
development
can
already
occur
there.
The
the
the
completion
of
the
mitigation
does
not
slow
down
development
under
a
404
permit
that
404
permit
is
issued
once
the
court
gets
through
its
review,
but
the
before
the
404,
the
mitigation.
E
These
are
the
characteristics
of
a
filo
program
we
have
we
operate
under.
We
operate
under
a
a
an
instrument
with
the
army
tour.
It's
you
know.
We,
it's
reviewed
by
the
irt
in
coordination
with
with
the
agency,
the
the
core
is
the
one.
This
is
our.
This
is
our
playbook.
This
is
the
rules
that
we
have
to
operate
under
three
vr
army
corps.
E
It
gets,
as
I
said,
it,
lays
out
the
criteria
for
the
programs
that
we
operate.
The
important
thing
is
probably
bullet
number
five.
The
program
account
it
must
be
used
for
the
selection,
design,
acquisition,
implementation
management
of
in
lieu
fee
compensatory
projects,
along
with
administrative
costs
and
our
required
reserve
balance.
It's
the
balance
of
that
fund
is
subject
to
the
court,
approved,
subject
court
review
and
is
limited
to
core
approval
for
expenditures.
E
Okay,
now
these
are
the
advanced
credits
and
one
thing
to
touch
back
on
the
fun
the
sponsor
must
submit,
which
is
us
proposed
in
lieu
feed
projects.
E
Again,
it
is
their
discretion,
is
the
administer
of
the
of
the
404
permit,
and
now
we
have.
We
certainly
have
tools
in
our
toolbox
to
utilize,
but
the
ultimate
expenditure
and
approval
is
done
at
the
direction
and
authorization
of
the
army
corps
the
advanced
credits.
This
is
this
is
kind
of
what
we're
what
we're,
what
we've
been
talking
about
in
certain
areas.
In
order
to
generate
and
deliver
advanced
credits,
we
have
to
have
the
approved
instrument,
which
is
what
we
operate
under.
Well,
as
we've
seen
in
northern
kentucky.
E
We
are
trying
diligently
and
doing
the
best
we
can
in
our
review
of
our
instrument
to
get
that
that
that
increased
and
we'd
be
happy
to
explore
other
options.
We
we
also
do
think
that
if
a
company
came
in
tomorrow,
we
could
go
and
work
with
the
army
corps
to
find
either
lifetime
purchases
in
the
joining
service
area
or
some
in
other
similar
situated
circumstances
that
might
allow
that
to
go
forward.
E
But
under
our
current
instrument,
we're
capped
out
in
northern
kentucky.
The
advanced
credits
are
based
on
the
compensation
select
frame,
the
framework,
the
sponsor's,
past
performance
and
meeting
those,
as
well
as
the
finance
financing
needs
for
the
mitigation.
E
As
the
project
produces
credits,
the
advanced
credits
are
released
and
that
we
can
go
out
and
do
more,
and
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
biggest
issues
that
we
have,
that
that
has
been
stated
is
the
three-year
rule
and
it's
it's
sort
of
a,
I
won't
say,
a
source
of
confusion,
but
there's
something
to
understand.
E
The
land
acquisition
and
ecological
improvements
at
a
site
must
be
initiated
by
the
third
growing
season
after
the
first
advanced
credit
is
required.
So
if
a
company
comes
in
and
pays
us
today,
then
we
have
we're
obligated
under
the
three-year
rule,
to
move
forward
once
it's
approved
by
the
correspondent.
E
Oh
okay,
sorry
we're
not
matching,
but
here
here's
here's
what
the
three
rule
year
rule
under
33
cfr,
332.8
lane
acquisition
and
additional
physical
and
biological
improvements
must
be
completed
by
the
third
growing
season
after
the
first
advanced
credit
and
that
service
area
is
secured
by
the
permittee
unless
the
core
determines
that
more
or
less
time
is
needed
to
plan,
implement
and
implement
an
mlu
fee
project.
If
the
core
determines
that
there
is
a
compensatory
mitigation
deficit
in
a
specific
service
area
by
the
third
growing
season.
E
After
the
credit
is
sold
in
that
area,
then
they
would
direct
us
to
either
timely,
complete
the
plot
project,
grant
us
more
time
to
complete
the
project
or
direct
us
to
an
existing
mitigation
bank.
If
one
exists
as
colonel,
I
believe
the
there
is
a
the
army
corps.
I
don't
I
don't
know
if
you'll
have
access
to
it
or
how
it'll
come
with
the
availability
of
it,
but
the
army
corps
did
submit
a
letter
that
stated
by
colonel
crispino.
E
Several
factors
are
being
considered
by
the
corps
in
the
service
area
to
determine
whether
or
not
to
grant
more
time
or
direct
the
sponsor
to
disburse
funds
in
order
to
provide
the
compensatory
mitigation.
E
We
are
working
to
meet
these
three,
these
these
the
three-year
obligation
and
we're
doing.
We
have
drastically
made
changes
to
speed
up
that
process,
but
as
of
right
now,
we
are
not
in
violation,
and
we
are
moving
forward
against
this
distinction
between
him
fee
programs
and
banks
in
lieu
fee
programs
by
larger
government
agencies
or
non-profit
conservation
agency
organizations.
E
The
fee
is
received
before
mitigation
occurs,
the
property
that
we
acquire
is
usually
due
to
the
restrictions
in
the
site.
Protection
instrument
is
suitable
and
absolutely
perfect
for
public
use.
Our
fee
rates
are
set
according
to
the
cost
incurred
our
sites.
When
we
do
it
through
an
in-law
can
can
be
site-specific
or
they
can
they
can.
We
can
look
broad
scope
throughout
the
watershed.
E
Now
there
is
the
temporal
lag
between
the
money
taken
in
and
the
credit
produced,
but
the
404
permit
has
already
been
issued
emitted
mitigation
banks
or
can
be
a
public
or
private
sponsor
the
site
is
secured
and
the
project
is
initiated
in
advance
of
credits.
It's
just
like
trying
to
build
a
subdivision.
The
house
is
already
built.
All
you
need
is
somebody
to
move
in
and
buy
that
house.
E
E
E
We
have
the
site
it's
under
our
control,
it's
under
our
ownership.
Full
delivery
is,
I
don't
know
like
in
northern
kentucky,
there's
a
the
meadow,
the
meadowland
full
delivery
site,
which
is
being
performed
by
stantec
out
of
louisville.
Lexington
is
a
9.6
million
dollar
project
where
we
said
go
out
and
find
a
site
in
northern
kentucky,
and
the
company
went
out
and
found
it
and
that's
what
they
produced.
Stantec
is
also
doing
a
similar
full
delivery
in
nelson
county.
E
We
are
in
the
process.
As
of
on
monday,
we
actually
had
a
meeting
with
the
finance
cabinets
office
of
procurement
services
to
finalize
and
fine-tune
an
rfp
that
we
are
going
to
be
putting
out
in
the
upper
kentucky
for
to
deliver
credits.
That
will
say:
okay,
we're
putting
it
we're
putting
it
out
for
bid.
E
I
know
our
next
presenter
is:
a
company
has
a
company
that
might
be
interested
in
bidding
on
it.
We
hope
stantec
would
bid
on
it.
We
hope
environmental
investment
partners
would
bid
on
it.
We
hope
somebody
bends
on
it,
but
that
will
go
out
for
public
bid
and
we
will
say,
find
us
a
site
in
this
service
area,
see
what
you
can
do
and
bring
it
back
and
then
we'll
present
it
to
the
core
and
go
forward
with
it.
E
But
the
the
distinction,
the
major
distinction
between
a
full
delivery
and
a
designed
bid,
build
from
our
perspective
as
an
agency
is
very,
very
simple,
and
that
is
design
bid.
Build
allows
us
to
actually
it's
on
site.
We
already
own
under
state
procurement,
as
interpreted
currently
by
the
finance
cabinet
endeca
under
45
and
45.
A
the
state
cannot
have
a
property
interest
in
full
delivery
contracts,
because
having
such
an
interest
will
then
classify
the
contract
as
capital
construction,
so
as
an
agency,
especially
fish
and
wildlife
agency.
E
Our
mission
and
what
what
is
compatible
for
us
in
prep
from
a
preferential
standpoint,
is
to
have
ownership
in
that
property.
Now
that
we
are
hoping
with
the
work
group
that
commissioner
storm
proposed,
we
will
be
able
to
explore
statutory
obstacles
like
this,
and
I
I
believe
that
I
think
my
I
might
have
been
represented.
Wheeler
talked
about,
what's
not
going
on
in
eastern
kentucky,
one
of
the
biggest
problems
that
either
either
private
individuals
or
or
private
companies,
or
we
have
in
finding
projects
in
eastern
kentucky
is
the
mineral
separates.
E
There
is
a
very.
We
have
a
very,
very
restrictive
statute
in
krs
380
dealing
with
conservation
easements
and
the
ability
to
put
conservation
easements
on
a
piece
of
property
where
the
middle
is
severed
or
having
a
piece
of
property
with
a
met
with
a
conservation
easement
on
it
next
with
a
joining
mining
site
and
that
those
are
statutory
things
that
we
are.
We
are
hoping
that
we
can
work
together
in
this
working
group
to
go
forward
and
I'll
try
to
go
through
these
next
problems.
Next,
slides
very,
very
quickly.
A
E
All
right,
the
department
of
fish
and
wildlife.
This
is
our
statute
when
the
statute
was
originally
created,
and
I
think
tom
bennett
deserves
a
lot
of
credit
for
it
because
it
helped
set
up
our
with
us.
You
put
it
in
a
conservation
agency
with
a
mission
to
go
out
and
restore
and
create
wetlands
and
also
the
ability
to
own
property,
which
is
what
we're
trying
to
do.
Let's
we
talked
about
the
projects
that
are
underway.
E
We
have
49
pending
projects
that
would
clean
up
225
miles
of
stream
and
approximately
535
acres
through
the
model
that
we
have
used
with
the
design
build
bid.
We
have.
We
have
utilized
141,
kentucky
companies,
24
legal
title
for
professional
firms,
31
design,
engineering
firms,
23
construction
companies,
quarries
and
numerous
others,
and
when
we
put
out
a
bid,
even
though
45a
does
not
have
a
local
labor
component
in
it,
it
is
certainly
a
criteria
which
we,
which
would
which
we
use
in
wayne
go
ahead,
keep
going.
E
We
don't
help
important
businesses
to
kentucky
from
hunt
from
a
hunting
and
fishing
perspective.
It's
not
an
eater
or
choice
where
you
can
do
hunting
and
fishing
or
mitigation.
We
believe
you
can
do
both
it's
mitigation
is
a
business
which
contributes
to
supplement
a
larger
business.
E
Various
grants,
the
projects
that
we've
done
types
of
mitigation
projects
we've
done.
This
is
a
u.s
460
and
pike
county.
We
as
we.
We
estimate
that
currently,
51
percent
of
the
fees
in
the
inland
feed
program
have
been
paid
for
by
kytc
permanent
site
protection
is
required,
which
is
either
in
the
form
of
the
easement
or
ownership.
E
And
this
is
one
of
the
biggest
things.
This
is
one
one
of
the
things
that
the
army
corps
has
really
wanted
to
talk
to
us
about.
These
are
the
pro
since
2021
of
or
since
september
of
last
year,
we
have
gone
forward
with
these
purchases.
E
E
We
are
working
on
the
revision
of
the
instrument
which
will
reduce
that
to
10
and
expand
other
areas,
and
these
are
the
areas
where
we
are
we
are
behind.
I,
I
have
passed
through
obligations,
but
we
have
been
either
granted
an
extension
by
the
army
corps
or
we
are
currently
currently
have
projects
underway
in
those
areas.
E
And
these
are
the
the
things
that
we've
taken
under
to
to
help
speed
up
the
process.
The
property
acquisition
has
been
then
has
been
speeded
up.
We
we
have
an
rfp
getting
ready
to
go
out.
We
currently
are
using
two
full
deliveries.
E
On
monday,
we
did
receive
a
proposal
for
credit
for
purchases
in
four
areas
that
we
are
currently
being
evaluated
in
comparison
to
other
projects.
For
instance
like
in
the
big
sandy.
We
have
one
project
in
the
monitoring
phase:
three
projects
in
construction,
three
in
design,
one
in
acquisition
with
an
estimated
value
of
12.
12.2
million
dollars,
and
then
we
also
had
to
go
back
and
for
kentucky
we
have
one.
So
I
know
that
is
a
lot
of
information.
E
I
apologize
for
that,
but
our
program
we're
very
proud
of
it
and
we
think
that
we
we
we
think
we
are
doing
good
for
kentucky,
and
we
are
very
excited
about
the
opportunity
that
commissioner
storm
presented.
A
We,
I
do
have
a
couple
of
questions,
and
I
know
that
at
some
point
the
I
think
part
of
kentucky
may
have
been
under
the
the
the
louisville
office
of
the
army
corps
of
engineers,
and
maybe
some
was
under
a
different
core,
but
my
concern
is
that
fish
and
wildlife-
maybe
you've
negotiated
with
the
army
corps,
some
regional
maps
or
service
area
maps,
and
evidently
the
mitigation
has
to
be
in
that
particular
service
area
is,
is:
is
there
a
problem
that
maybe
the
maps
that
you
have
now
with
the
army
corps
is
not
necessarily
what
was
negotiated
several
years
ago?
L
Yeah,
actually
we
we
still
have
the
same
maps
that
we
we
haven't,
made
any
sort
of
transitions
in
new
areas
yet
and
they're.
In
that
presentation,
I
think
you
guys
have
access
to
the.
H
L
Current
and
then
the
proposed,
the
proposed
areas
are
standard
for
all
mitigation
in
kentucky
by
the
core.
It's
they're
available
for
any
provider
to
use
as
their
service
area
for
a
given
project.
So
they've
asked
us
and
we're
just
in
the
process
of
transitioning
to
the
standardized
service
areas,
but
they
they
do
change.
A
For
some
of
us
that
have
been
here
a
while,
we've
been
talking
about
this
program
for
a
long
time,
and-
and
we
were
talking
about
it-
a
lot
in
east
and
west
kentucky
in
the
coal
fields-
and
I
know
a
lot
of
the
coal
companies
paid
mitigation
funds
in
you
know
when
they
were
getting
their
permits
or
whatever.
And
so
there
seems
to
be
a
lot
of
folks.
That
feel
like
that.
A
Most
of
this
money
was,
you
know
in
in
those
areas,
but
I
think
I
heard
you
say
that
the
majority
of
the
funds
has
been
paid
in
by
the
kentucky
transportation
cabinet
and
and
then
the
other
go
ahead
and
answer
that
yeah.
L
Yeah
that
that's
correct
over
just
over
50
to
date
has
been
paid
into
the
program.
The
whole
life
of
the
program
by
kytc,
and
there
there
are.
There
was
a
lot
of
use
by
mining
years
ago
there
haven't
been
any
mining
source
payments
since
2018,
but
those
funds
from
the
areas
where
they're
generated
stay
in
those
areas.
So
a
fund
paid
into
big
sandy
service
area
stays
in
the
big
sandy
service
area.
A
L
Actually,
the
the
the
nine
county
northern
kentucky
service
area-
we've
it
it
had
no
payments
prior
to
2018.
It
didn't
exist
as
a
service
area
for
this
program
that
we
absorbed
that
then,
and
those
funds
are
staying
in
those
nine
counties
and
since
we
started
there
and
had
the
big
amazon
payment
that
was
referenced,
we've
we've
been
in
the
process
of
developing.
You
know
probably
10
to
20
different
project
sites
there
to
address
that
and
to
in
our
own
pace
to
to
make
our
three-year
delivery
time
with
those
projects.
A
Okay,
I
think
you
know,
no
one
here
is-
is
really
trying
to
in
any
way
disparage
the
job
that
that
the
kentucky
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
has
done.
A
I
think
what
a
lot
of
us
see
is
a
situation
where
you
know
you
have
a
three-year
time
frame
and
I
think
at
some
point
there's
an
annual
evaluation
and
it
seems
that
a
lot
of
those
projects
you
know
because
they're
not
done
in
the
three
years,
don't
get
done
at
all
and
and
we
we
don't
think
we
can
have
this
kind
of
money
sitting
there
and
not
being
used
and
and
somehow
say,
then
that
the
project
is
working.
A
Fine,
that's
just
difficult
for
me
and
I'm
sure
a
lot
of
my
colleagues
to
to
to
say
that,
and
so
you
know
one
thing
that
I'm
concerned
about
is
you
know
we
we
do
need
those
credits
in
northern
kentucky.
You
mentioned
you'd
be
happy
to
work
with
the
army
corps.
To
do
that,
but
I
mean,
can
you
tell
us
what
kind
of
things
you
can
do
to
make
that
happen?.
L
Absolutely
we've
recently
and
that's
why
scott's
with
us
now
with
the
program
and
we've
got
a
relationship
with
finance
cabinet,
that's
dramatically
improved
and
probably
what
you're
seeing
is
over
the
past
several
years,
several
projects
kind
of
stacked
up
and
got
held
up
in
implementing
that
site
protection
instrument,
that's
required
for
mitigation
and,
more
recently,
we've
been
able
to
kind
of
break
several
of
those
through
and
that's
the
list
that
scott
showed
you
kind
of
near
the
end
of
the
presentation.
L
E
And
one
of
the
things,
sir,
is
going
back
to
the
three-year
rule.
Well,
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
that
had
slowed
that
down
in
the
past
was,
as
the
state
goes
out
and
acquires
property
what
we
are
obligated
to
do
in
the
process
having
having
it
appraised
having
the
having
it
surveyed
any
any
title
issues,
and
with
this,
as
we
know,
with
kentucky
and
the
legacy
and
history
of
mining,
there's
mineral
there's
oil
and
gas
there's
timber.
E
Those
title
issues
have
to
be
cleared
before
we
can
take
title
that
property
acquisition
front,
end
loads
and
can
slow
down
the
acquisition
process.
So
you
know
nine
to
ten
months
after
finding
a
site
we
were,
we
could
have
lost
one
year
of
that
three-year
rule.
E
That's
why
we
work
with
the
army
corps
to
really
keep
them
apprised
and
if
an
extension
is
needed
that
that
we
can
get
that
and
as
far
as
northern
kentucky
goes
again,
we
are
we're
doing
everything
we
possibly
can
with
the
revision
of
the
the
mitigation
entry
instrument
and
that's
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
we've
got
is
they
will
take
into
our
into
account
our
track
record
in
northern
kentucky.
A
B
B
Pages,
yes,
sir,
it
is
no,
I
don't
believe
that's
it.
I
would
like
to
request
that
you
get
that
to
my
legislative
secretary
some
way,
so
I
can
print
it
out
and
learn
more
about
that
and
yes,
sir
second
thing
can
you
provide
in
that
program
somewhere
is
also
those
141
million
dollars
we
got
committed,
who
those
are
committed
to
so
I
could
have
that
available.
Also
is
to
study
and
review.
E
And
I
think
I
know
it
wasn't
part
of
the
powerpoint
presentation,
but
we
did
send
down
an
excel
spreadsheet
that
we
included
and
I
think
that
information
is
in
the
excel
spreadsheet.
Yeah.
A
B
H
H
No,
I
am
totally
preschool,
let's
just
say
it
so
my
question
is
of
these
things
that
we
get
allocated
what's
the
threshold
for
getting
them
to
the
allocation
level
and
then,
if
they
don't
actually
come
through,
what's
the
threshold
for
them
to,
let's
say
fall
off
or
it
just
seems
like
to
me,
I'm
hearing
things
aren't
done,
allocations
are
made,
but
obviously
they're
not
actual.
They
don't
materialize.
So
can
you
give
me
an
idea
of
how
that
happens
and
what
the
criteria
are
for
that
to
happen?.
L
Sure
so
we
don't
allocate
funds
to
a
product,
that's
kind
of
an
internal
thing
that
happens
here.
L
We
don't
do
that
until
the
corps
has
approved
our
conceptual
plan
for
that
project,
and
at
that
point
we
can
continue
with
getting
the
site
protection
instrument
as
required
by
the
way
that's
required
for
all
mitigation
from
our
garland
regardless
who
does
it
and
then
once
we,
we
don't
budget
funds
where
you
would
see
them
distributed
to
capital
accounts
until
we
have
been
able
to
fully
execute
that
psych
protection
instrument,
and
then
the
only
portion
of
funds
that
are
budgeted
are
those
necessary
to
enter
into
the
design
contract
or
the
initial
phase
of
the
contract.
L
The
construction
funds
are
not
yet
budgeted.
Those
are
not
budgeted
until
it's
actually
bid.
So
you,
the
the
funds
for
a
project,
have
to
be
allocated.
That's
an
internal
allocation
where
we
say:
okay,
it's
gonna,
take.
We
think
three
million
dollars
to
do
a
project.
Well,
it
might
take
500
000
to
design
it.
It
might
have
taken
500
000
to
purchase
or
implement
the
site
protection
instrument,
and
then
we've
got
2
million
to
do
construction.
L
Those
funds
will
trickle
from
our
internal
allocation
to
the
state's
you
know:
capital
account
system
as
they're
needed
or
that's
the
way
it's
been
in
the
past.
So
you'll
see
those
funds
unspent
until
we
get
to
the
point
of
bidding
construction.
So
they
look
like
we're
not
doing
projects
as
far
as
canceled
projects.
There
really
haven't
been
that
many
capital
funds
that
have
been
set
up
that
we
haven't
done
now.
L
E
And
that's
just
one
of
the
confusions
with
the
way
we
have,
we
can't
up
front
full
up
up
front
fund,
a
full
project.
It's
paid
out
over
the
and
that's
the
one
slide
I
have
with
the
with
the
with
the
the
bubbles
going
in
a
circle.
E
We
don't
fund
projects,
upfront
they're
paid
out
over
the
lifetime,
so
a
project
that
has
a
nine
year
duration,
the
the
money,
even
though
we
have
it
in
our
account.
It's
an
obligated
expense,
just
like
a
bunch
to
me
to
be
paid
out
over
the
life
of
the
project.
H
A
Thank
you
and
one
final
question
for
this
section:
senator
wheeler.
D
Goach,
I
guess
I
got
more
of
a
comment
I
mean,
and
this
is
kind
of
a
personal
experience
I
mean,
and
frankly
it
just
shows
how
tone-deaf
the
federal
government
really
is
to
the
suffering
of
a
lot
of
people
in
rural
areas.
I
mean
I've
tried
to
deal
with
the
corps
of
engineers
myself
and
it's
like
talking
to
a
brick
wall.
D
We
asked,
for
example,
and
most
of
you
know
that
I
mean
I
was
really
involved
last
session
on
the
development
of
a
atv
trail
system
with
representative
few
getting
some
others
in
eastern
kentucky.
I
know
my
county
went
to
the
core.
We
even
had
congressman
rogers
with
us
and
wanted
a
one
mile
easement
over
a
paved
road,
and
it
was
like
talking
to
a
brick
wall.
They
came
down
there
with
the
the
colonel
and
his
engineer.
D
D
13
years
and
we
haven't
made
up
our
mind
yet
I
mean
we
really
have
to
do
something
to
get
more
responsiveness
out
of
these
federal
bureaucrats
that
have
just
absolutely
run
roughshod
over
a
large
section
of
the
country,
which
is
the
state
that's
struggling,
and
it's
just
you
know.
Eastern
kentucky
is
just
one
of
many
areas
that
are
struggling
throughout
the
united
states
that
are
being
held
back
by
the
federal
bureaucracy
so
that
they
can
save
some
type
of
appalachian
crayfish
or
something
of
the
sort.
I
mean
it's
absolutely
fundamentally
ridiculous.
D
D
If
this
money
needs
to
be
spent
anywhere,
it
needs
to
be
spent
back
home
and
it
needs
to
be
spent
quickly,
and
you
know
we
need
economic
development
now
we
don't
need
the
feds
to
be
holding
it
up,
and
I
challenge
our
partners
in
washington
both
on
the
democrat
side
and
the
republican
side,
to
really
step
up
and
get
the
corps
in
line
and
allow
these
funds
to
be
used
where
they're
needed.
So,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and.
A
I
think,
let
me
let
me
say-
and
I've
been
chairing
this
committee
a
long
time
and
I've
actually
reached
out
to
the
corps
in
the
past-
asked
them
to
come
and
not
didn't
get
a
response,
not
even
a
response
and
except
for
the
time
when
there
was
a
colonel
there.
Colonel
landry,
I
think,
was
his
name
who
really
actually
had
a
liaison
with
this
committee
and
who
actually
came
and
testified,
but
once
he
left,
then
all
all
communications
stopped.
At
least
they
did
send
us
a
letter.
A
I
think
the
members
have
a
have
a
copy
that
in
their
packets,
so
there
was
some
response
this
time,
which
is
a
little
better
than
we've
gotten
in
several
several
years,
so
we
we
have
to
move
on
next.
I
think
we
have
the
role
and
function
of
mitigation
banks.
We
have
george
howard,
ceo
of
restoration
systems,
and
then
I
think
tom
fitzgerald
is
on
on
the
line
too.
Mr
howard,
you
introduce
yourself
in
yeah
your
mic
on
it's
a
little
green
light.
C
C
Our
industry
is
only
25
years
old
and
I've
been
involved
since
the
beginning.
When
I
discovered
the
new
approach
to
the
environment
in
1993
as
a
conservative
policy
staffer
working
in
the
u.s
senate,
if
there
is
any
lack
of
understanding
of
competitory
mitigation,
you
are
not
alone.
All
of
us
have
been
through
that
at
one
time
or
another,
we
did
not
grow
up
with
a
neighbor.
That
was
a
mitigation
banker,
though
the
policies
and
tools
to
accomplish
mitigation
obligations
are
nearly
30
years
old.
They
are
not
commonly
understood
public
policy
tool.
C
C
Mitigation
is
rooted
in
the
clean
water
act
of
1972,
which
requires
that
all
permitees
avoid
minimize
and
finally
mitigate
losses
of
public
waters.
Meeting
the
standards
and
timelines
of
mitigation
is
just
as
important
as
any
other
aspect
to
the
clean
water
act,
including
pollution
limits
on
discharges
and
management
of
treatment
plants.
C
The
law
and
regulations
have
acquired
for
30
years
that
damaged
resources,
be
compensated.
Foot
for
foot
acre
for
acre
with
restored
land
and
water
to
match.
The
losses
to
development
mitigation
obligations
were
a
result
of
a
campaign
pledge
by
former
president
h
w
bush
george
h.w
bush
to
make
no
net
loss
of
wetlands
our
national
policy
significantly,
and
why
I
am
here
today.
North
carolina
operates
a
statewide
filo
program,
just
like
kentucky
the
north
carolina
division
of
mitigation
services.
Our
filo
program
is
a
wild
success.
C
C
C
Many
news
articles
detailed
the
shortcomings
of
the
program
in
the
early
2000s.
I
have
included
a
couple
of
articles
in
your
packet
of
materials
when
the
mitigation
dollars
crossed
65
million
in
2001,
and
only
10
acres
of
wetland
and
less
than
5
000
feet
of
stream
had
been
restored.
Our
governor
at
the
time
said
to
his
agency
heads
and
chief
of
staff.
C
C
C
23
counties
cannot
use
your
program
at
all
because
of
this
backlog.
Yet,
as
is
established
as
a
statewide
program,
this
should
be
unacceptable
in
kentucky,
as
it
was
in
north
carolina.
Fortunately,
the
situation
is
easily
fixed.
The
solution
that
emerged
in
north
carolina
is
not
complex
and
required.
No
legislation
at
first
there
were
some
tweaks
later
on.
It
was
simply
a
change
in
the
contracting
and
procurement
approach.
C
Now
that's
dry
stuff,
but
it's
easy
to
do
and
it
doesn't
bother
you
guys,
over
a
period
of
five
years,
north
carolina
moved
away
from
a
distributed
contracting
approach
for
the
many
steps
in
mitigation
and
allow
me
to
list
them.
If
you
will
you
got
to
identify
the
land,
you
got
to
do
your
title
and
legal
work.
You
got
to
purchase
the
land
you
got
to
survey
and
map
it.
C
But
then
we
moved
to
a
more
risk-averse
system
where
the
state
isn't
doing
each
of
those
contracts
itself,
which
turns
into
a
hairball
when
you've
got
14
different
contracts
on
60
different
sites.
You
can
imagine
the
complications,
but
we
move
to
a
more
risk-averse
system
where
mitigation
providers,
like
myself,
with
private
employees,
guarantee
the
mitigation
and
perform
all
the
tasks
I
just
listed
for
a
flat
per
foot
price.
C
C
It
is
important
to
note
here
rather
than
diminishing
our
filo
program.
Our
program
program
grew
over
those
years
from
seven
to
more
than
25
employees
just
to
keep
up
with
the
contract
management
work,
I'm
here
to
make
recommendations
which
will
grow
the
kentucky
filo,
just
as
we
did
in
north
carolina
and
make
it
a
more
efficient
program.
C
I
recommend
this
committee
carefully
review
the
definition
of
allocated
and
see.
If
you
agree,
the
money
and
jobs
are
likely
to
flow
from
the
program
at
an
acceptable
pace
allocated
is
not
a
business
term
allocated
could
mean
the
funds
have
been
put
into
a
line
on
a
spreadsheet,
not
a
paycheck
for
a
tracho
operator.
C
Terminated
projects
do
not
employ
people,
and
the
time
and
money
spent
on
them
prior
to
termination
has
been
entirely
wasted,
specifically
as
an
employer
wishing
to
hire
in
kentucky
and
with
all
due
respect,
I
make
the
following
recommendations:
issue
full
delivery,
rfps
in
the
areas
with
the
greatest
backlog,
empower
and
encourage
the
fee
program.
Employees
through
statute
of
necessary
to
administer
full
delivery
contracts,
add
the
necessary
employees
and
adjust
compensation
and
job
descriptions
to
attract
and
retain
licensed
professionals
to
administer
a
comprehensive
purchasing
program.
C
Allow
contractors
to
purchase
allow
contractors
like
myself
to
purchase
the
necessary
land
rights
at
free
market
prices,
do
not
burden
the
land
acquisitions
with
state
procurement
rules
and
appraised
prices.
This
is
a
fantastic
opportunity
for
rural
land
owners
that
is
not
being
taken
advantage
of
now.
At
appraised
prices
place
the
risk
of
compensatory
mitigation,
credit
delivery
and
all
the
unanticipated
issues
that
arise
in
environmental
restoration
projects
on
the
private
sector
and
not
on
the
filo
involve
your
d.o.t.
No
road
work
should
ever
be
paused
or
reconsidered
due
to
mitigation.
C
C
The
the
committee
should
request
a
detailed
accounting,
a
detailed
accounting
of
the
unallocated
funds,
and
determine
a
point
where
allocated
funds
should
be
reprogrammed
to
full
delivery.
In
other
words,
what
is
said
to
be
allocated?
What
is
the
nature
of
that
allocation
and
if
it
is
a
very,
very
thin
commitment
that
has
been
made,
then
they
should
reprogram
that
to
full
delivery
rfps
at
a
minimum.
C
I
deeply
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
testify
and
answer
questions.
Mr
chairman,
our
firm
and
dozens
of
others
are
chomping
at
the
bit
to
become
to
begin
a
vigorous
and
competitive
effort
to
work
here,
hire
people
locally
and
restore
the
wonderful
resources
of
the
great
state
of
kentucky.
Thank
you
very
much.
Okay,.
A
Thank
you,
ms
hart.
I'm
gonna
allow
one
question
from
senator
webb
and
then
we're
gonna
get
tom
on
and
and
mr
howard
west,
that
you
stay
at
the
table.
Thank.
C
C
G
Prior
to
copy
of
that
too,
yes
ma'am,
if
I
could
just
say
remind
a
year
ago,
I
think
on
this
topic.
Mr
chairman,
I
made
a
motion.
I
think
that
we
study
this
and
and
for
those
reasons,
fish
wildlife,
habitat
was
very
important
to
me
and
this
committee
and
and
economic
development
and
and
all
those
things-
and
I
think
the
commissioner
said
that
was
maybe
gonna
happen.
So
I'm
hopeful
that
we
can
incorporate
all
that,
but
it's
I
made
that
motion
a
year
ago
and
this
committee
acquiesced
in
it.
G
So
I
think
that
would
be
a
good
start
to
thank.
G
C
Review
and
I've
also
been
asked
to
announce.
My
company
wasn't
directly
involved
with
it,
but
a
privately
funded
study
has
been
commissioned
at
the
university
of
kentucky
and
we're
kind
of
just
announcing
that
now
and
dr
michael
clark
is
going
to
conduct
the
study,
as
you
may
know,
he's
the
chief
economist
or
was
the
chief
of
common
economist
for
you
all.
C
C
Yeah,
okay!
Well,
he
is
going
to
do
a
study
that
I
believe
will
be
ready
by
october
1st.
Now,
of
course,
we
welcome
any
other
studies
that
y'all
do
on
your
own
and
and
from
the
legislature
itself,
but
it's
good
to
have
dr
clark
on
it
and
we
look
forward
to
working
with
him
and
I
hope
filo
does
too
on
getting
it
all
out
there
and
figuring
out
where
you
are.
A
And
senator
wheeler
I'll
get
to
you
as
soon
as
we
get
tom
fitzgerald
on
tom
you're
recognized.
Mr
chairman,
can
you
hear
me
okay,.
J
Yes,
sir,
wonderful,
thank
you
so
much.
It
is
a
privilege
to
be
back
in
front
of
the
committee,
and
this
has
been,
I
think,
the
beginning
of
what
I
hope
is
going
to
be
a
very
important
and
productive
conversation
with
the
affected
industries,
the
potential
providers
of
mitigation
and
the
rest
of
us
who
have
who
share,
along
with
every
member
of
the
joint
committee,
an
interest
in
making
sure
these
programs
are
working
properly.
J
J
Historically,
the
mitigation
occurred,
it
was
perma-t,
responsible
mitigation,
so-called
and
it
occurred
prior
to
or
contemporaneously
with,
the
issuance
of
permits.
What
that
you
know,
my
experience
with
that,
historically
has
been.
J
You
got
a
number
of
disjointed
smaller
mitigation
projects
that
were
undertaken
by
the
permitteer
by
their
contractor
and
the
the
a
lot
of
the
mitigation
projects
simply
were
not
of
great
quality
and
it
delayed
the
implementation
of
economic
development
projects
because
you
had
to
do
the
mitigation
first
or
how
do
you
do
the
mitigation
jointly
when
the
corps
developed
these
other
mitigation
tools
and
separated
out
the
responsibility
for
compensatory
mitigation
from
the
actual
permitting
and
allowed
the
permits
to
go
forward?
J
It
really,
I
think,
benefited
all
the
folks
who
are
interested
in
this.
It
benefited
economic
development,
even
though
you
know
even
dealing
with
the
mitigation
issue.
J
Getting
a
federal
permit
is
a
daunting
process
for
a
number
of
reasons
unrelated
to
compensatory
mitigation,
but
at
least
address
that
issue,
and
also,
for
my
part
and
the
the
interest
that
I
represent
with
the
kentucky
resources
council
resulted
in
larger
block
and
better
quality
mitigation
occurring,
so
the
the
opportunities
for
compensatory
mitigation
using
these
these
tools
is,
I
think,
a
very
important
one
for
everyone.
J
I
appreciate
in
particular
tom
bennett's
work
initially
when
he
was
commissioner
some
years
ago,
but
also
it
last
year
in
terms
of
working
with
the
legislators,
to
raise
these
issues,
to
bring
them
to
the
fore
and
to
result
in
what
I
heard
today,
as
a
commitment
from
the
agency
to
do
a
working
group
to
see
how
we
can
create
as
many
pathways
as
are
possible
to
high
quality,
timely,
cost-effective
and
durable
mitigation
for
unavoidable
impacts
to
waters
of
the
commonwealth.
J
As
for
me,
there
are
two
overarching
concerns
that
I
wanted
to
raise
and
and
if
I
have
the
privilege
of
being
part
of
this
working
group
to
hopefully
explore
with
the
other
members
of
the
working
group,
the
first
is
to
recognize
to
support
and
to
encourage
the
efforts
of
the
private
sector,
both
commercial
and
non-profits,
to
create
mitigation
banks
right
and
to
expand
the
use
of
mitigation
banks
where
there
are
appropriate
types
of
credits
that
are
available
in
the
watershed
from
either
a
commercial
or
a
non-profit
mitigation
bank.
J
That
mitigation
bank
credit
should
be
prioritized
over
any
other
fee.
In
lieu
of
projects,
the
mitigation
bank
represents
private
investment
that
has
been
done
at
private
risk
in
order
to
do
good
and
the
banks
reduce
the
uncertainty
for
both
the
corps,
the
state
and
the
the
developer
or
the
permittee
that
that
compensatory
mitigation
will
occur
because
the
mitigation
has
occurred
in
advance
of
the
permit.
J
You
have
the
bank,
the
bank
is
there,
you
are
purchasing
your
credit
for
an
area
that
has
been
restored
and
protected
or
which
is
high
quality
and
has
been
protected.
Further
investment
and
reduction
in
uncertainty
would
be
encouraged
by
making
the
establishment
and
the
growing
of
mitigation
banks
a
priority
within
the
commonwealth.
J
Ultimately,
the
core
of
engineers
will
determine
for
on
a
project
by
project
basis.
What
is
the
most
appropriate
mitigation
or
combination
of
mitigations,
but
certainly
we
should
be
encouraging
that
sort
of
investment
and
and
removing
obstacles
to
private
investment
in
mitigation
banks,
so
that
we
have
available
those
credits
in
each
one
of
the
watersheds
and
watershed
service
areas
in
the
commonwealth.
J
The
second
is
is
a
is
a
point
that
that
has
been
alluded
to
by
a
number
of
the
other
speakers,
including
the
agency,
which
is
we've
got
to
look
at
the
range
of
options
available
to
us
to
shorten
the
temporal
lag
between
when
you're
paying
into
the
fee
in
lieu
of
a
program
and
when
the
money
is
being
spent
on
the
ground,
or
in
this
case
in
the
water.
The
the
concept
of
of
in
luffy
is
is
because
it
is
occurring
after
the
fact
there
is
a
temporal
loss
of
you
know.
J
If
I
have
a
wetland,
that's
disturbed
today
and
I
have
a
project
that
is
going
to
restore
a
wetland
to
an
area
that
has
been
drained
and
tiled
that
is
going
to
be
restored
back
to
wetland
conditions.
There
is
a
lag
in
time.
You
add
to
that
all
of
the
different
steps
that
occur
in
the
process
which
are
outlined
by
the
prior
speaker,
and
it
can
be
a
a
daunting
delay.
Now
the
permittee
pays
into
the
fund
a
certain
percentage
of
the
in
lieu.
J
There
are
completely
avoidable
losses
that
have
occurred
and
because
the
money
is
not
sufficient
to
cover
that,
and
because
there's
a
substantial
delay
between
the
loss
to
the
commonwealth
and
the
restoration
of
the
compensatory
mitigation,
so
any
opportunities
that
we
have
to
expedite
the
development
of
rfps
to
do
full
delivery
to
do
pre-approval
of
contractors
to
do
a
collaborative
bidding
on
projects
so
that
you're,
not
excluding
small
businesses
in
kentucky
that
could
work
together
and
share
their
their
talents
and
their
skills.
J
Anything
that
we
can
do
to
improve
the
turnaround
time
to
reduce
the
lag
time
between
a
payment
of
the
private
monies,
and
these
are
private
monies
that
are
being
paid
into
the
inlue
fee
and
the
assumption
that
this
third
party
entity
is
going
to
take
care
of
the
mitigation
in
a
timely
fashion.
Anything
we
can
do
to
meet
that
expectation.
Reduce
the
time
lag
is
in
everyone's
benefit.
The
numbers
that
I've
seen
over
the
last
year
have
shown.
J
I
think,
a
real
effort
in
the
last
year
on
the
part
of
the
fish
and
wildlife
to
reduce
that
lag
time
to
get
more
projects
bid
out
and
underway.
But
we
can,
as
the
agency
will
be
the
first
to
tell
you
we
can
always
do
better
and
in
this
rare
circumstance,
where
organizations
like
the
kentucky
resources
council,
who
are
at
least
until
december.
J
I
direct
and
the
chamber,
of
course,
the
fact
that
we're
in
agreement,
I'm
sure,
makes
a
chamber
a
little
nervous,
but
I
am
confident
that
we
could
improve
the
process,
create
more
employment
and
better
protect
the
waters
of
this
great
commonwealth.
With
the
influx
of
new
infrastructure
money,
that's
going
to
be
happening
with
with
exciting
developments
occurring
in
northern
kentucky
in
henderson.
J
It
really
is
time
is
of
the
essence,
so
I
look
forward
to
the
working
group
being
established
a
broad
membership,
including
ex
officio
status,
for
a
number
of
of
members
of
the
legislature
who
have
an
interest
in
this.
Some.
You
know
senator
weber.
J
I
know
your
interest
is
abiding
because
and
and
representative
gooch,
because
we
have
been
there
in
past
years,
working
on
task
force
and
working
on
the
various
issues
and
exploring
how
these
monies
can
be
better
used
to
meet
qualitative
and
quantitative
needs
for
the
waters
of
the
commonwealth.
So,
mr
chairman,
I
appreciate
the
invitation
to
be
here
happy
to
answer
any
questions
and
I'm
I'm.
J
You
know,
as
I
think
it
was
our
city
of
hall
and
his
show
used
to
say,
let's
get
busy,
because
we
we
do
have
a
need
out
there.
The
need
is
going
to
increase
with
the
new
infrastructure
money
and
we
need
to
be
spending
this
money
smart
and
in
a
timely
fashion
that
will
benefit
the
environment
and
benefit
our
economy.
So
thank
you
very
much.
A
Thank
you
tom,
and
I
appreciate
your
patience
you
know
waiting
to
to
last
and
but
I
think
the
things
that
you
articulate
are
exactly
what
this
committee
wants
to
see.
You
know
those
funds,
you
know
people
pay
into
those
funds
and
they
shouldn't
have
to
wait
forever
for
that
money
to
be
spent,
and
we
certainly
wouldn't
want
to
make
sure
that
no
one
ever
was
cited
for
some
type
of
violation
because
they
had
paid
into
funds
and
they
didn't
get
expended
in
in
a
timely
fashion.
A
So
without
senator
wheeler.
I
think
you
have
a
question.
D
Thank
you,
chairman
coach,
mr
howard,
how
exactly
you
probably
sat
there
and
heard
my
tirade
against
the
corps
of
engineers
earlier?
How
exactly
have
you
all
been
able
to
manage
some
of
the
obstinacy
of
the
corps
of
engineers
down
in
north
carolina
to
accelerate
these
projects.
C
Mostly
through
extraordinary
patience,
senator
wheeler,
that
being
a
mitigation
bank,
you
learn
to
work
at
glacial
time
frames,
but
over
time
we
proved
ourself
that
the
core
was
very
uneasy
with
the
full
delivery
system
at
first
and
right
now,
it
ticks
like
a
clock
that
the
core
comes
out
and
reviews
the
sites,
the
core
approves
the
permits
to
actually
build
the
sites
because
believe
it
or
not.
C
You
got
to
get
wetland
permits
to
build
new
wetlands,
big
part
of
it,
but
after
you
get
the
ball
rolling
and
take
all
of
the
little
nitpicking
things
that
your
filo
program
is
trying
to
do
in-house
now
and
put
it
to
incentivized
private
operators
who
are
on
the
hook
for
any
failures
that
time
goes
away.
So
you're
dealing
with
two
time
things
now
you're
dealing
with
the
the
your
in-house
operation,
trying
to
get
everything
in
a
row
and
then
you're
dealing
with
the
core
right.
C
You'd
need
to
at
first
get
your
own
side
of
the
equation,
just
as
efficient
as
possible,
and
then
the
core
is
largely
out
of
our
control,
except
for
the
fact
that
if
you
provide
them
a
good
product,
they
recognize
it
and
in
north
carolina
they
have
recognized
it
and
over
time,
they've
adjusted
their
system
so
that
they
get
out
to
our
sites.
They
work
on
it.
They
turn
around
the
permits.
We've
got
standardized,
checklists
and
ways
we
deal
with
them.
C
B
It's
not
so
much
directed
to
him,
but
I'm
going
to
try
to
get
this
whole
process
out,
and
I
hope
we
can
get
a
copy
of
your
contract
as
you've
said
to
maybe
all
the
people
here
that
want
it.
I'm
going
to
try
to
get
from
the
corps
of
engineers
as
much
as
we
can
and
definitely
from
the
fish
and
wildlife
all
the
data
on
this,
where
the
funds
are
laying
where
they
came
from,
where
they're
going.
B
C
Thank
you,
senator
turner.
I
tell
you.
I
just
wish
I'd
love.
These
calls
for
our
contract,
because
one
of
the
things
I
do
we
encounter
this
all
over
the
country
every
state's
at
some
level.
North
carolina
has
kind
of
licked
it,
but
I
try
to
provide
them
the
rfp
and
just
hope
people
will
read
it
because
the
contract
is
embedded
in
the
rfp
right.
The
advertisement
that
goes
out
shows
you
the
rules
and
how
you're
going
to
perform,
and
if
people
will
read
that
they'll
see
that
we
put
a
lot
of
work
in
this.
C
It's
20
years
of
evolution
that
north
carolina's
rfp
and
contract,
don't
look
just
like
it
did
in
2001.
Now
the
one
in
2001
did
a
lot
of
good,
but
now
we've
had
20
full
years
of
refining
and
evolving
the
thing
and
like
I
say
it
ticks
like
a
clock,
so
not
just
saying
that
to
brag
but
saying
that
to
recommend,
because
it
can
save
people
a
lot
of
time
by
picking
up
what
works
for
us
and
might
work
for
you.
A
Other
questions,
okay,
I
think
it's
been
a
good
meeting
today
and
I
think
we've
talked
about
a
lot
of
things
that
and
there
seems
to
be
a
desire
from
everyone
to
realize
that
you.
B
A
A
Okay,
so
anyway,
well
members,
thank
you
so.