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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Local Government (10-19-21)
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A
B
B
A
President
in
the
room,
we
do
have
a
quorum
and
are
ready
to
proceed
with
business.
I
think
the
first
thing
we
need
to
do
is
to
approve
minutes
from
the
last
meeting.
Do
I
have
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes
motion
from
senator
wheeler
second
represent
or
senator
nemes,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
any
opposed.
A
Seeing
none
motion
to
approve
the
minute
has
passed.
We
are
going
to
follow
the
agenda
today
and
we
have
a
fairly
packed
agenda.
So
if
our
friends
from
the
kentucky
league
of
cities
would
proceed
to
the
table
introduce
themselves
for
the
record,
and
then
you
may
proceed
with
your
presentation
on
your
agenda
for
the
coming
session.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
members
of
the
committee,
I'm
j.d
cheney,
I'm
the
executive
director,
ceo
of
the
kentucky
league
of
cities.
We
always
look
forward
to
the
fall
when
it's
time
to
come
back
and
talk
about
what
our
board
of
directors,
our
66-member
board
of
directors,
has
approved
as
legislative
agenda
items
for
kentucky
cities.
G
As
you
all
know,
we
we
change
presidents
and
first
vice
presidents,
every
single
year
at
the
at
the
league
of
cities
that
their
membership
elects
to
represent
us
as
presidents
of
the
organization
and
this
year,
air
board
elected
a
familiar
face
to
many
of
you
all
brian
troggett,
who
is
the
mayor
of
the
city
of
versailles,
who
will
be
the
klc
president
for
2021
and
2022
and
brian
has
been
the
mayor
of
versailles.
Now.
G
This
is
in
his
second
second
elected
term
and
has
risen
through
the
ranks
at
the
organization
to
to
hold
the
office
of
president
and
we
have
with
us
as
well
newly
elected
first
vice
president
jim
hamburg,
from
the
city
of
southgate,
so
jim,
representing
the
northern
kentucky
region
and
southgate,
is
our
first
vice
president
in
our
leadership
and
they're,
going
to
talk
talk
with
you
all
today
about
what
our
priorities
are
and
what
the
board
elected
and
appointed
city
officials
around
kentucky
have
have
prioritized
for
us
to
try
to
accomplish
in
the
2022
session
and
with
that
I'll,
introduce
president
mayor
brian
froggett,.
H
Thank
you
so
much
jd
thank
you,
chairman
meredith,
chairman
mills
and
members
of
the
committee.
It's
good
to
see
you
all.
H
As
jd
mentioned,
a
lot
of
this
will
be
a
rehash
to
many
of
you.
Klc
advocacy
relies
on
three
primary
principles:
the
first
being
the
principle
of
home
rule
city
officials
must
have
the
authority
and
the
flexibility
to
make
decisions
at
the
local
level
to
benefit
our
constituents
and
your
constituents.
H
The
ability
to
to
raise
adequate
and
stable
and
flexible
resources.
Cities
must
be
able
to
generate
sufficient
revenue
to
provide
the
services
that
our
residents
have
come
to
expect
and
economic
prosperity.
Cities
must
have
the
ability
to
encourage
economic
development
and,
in
turn,
enhance
the
quality
of
life.
H
H
H
H
The
constitutional
issue,
which
will
be
discussed
later,
I
believe,
section
181-
impedes
the
legislature's
ability
to
comprehensively
reform
local
tax
structures.
It
was
adopted
in
1891,
making
it
130
years.
Old
cities
currently
rely
on
a
small
number
of
revenue
options
across
the
state.
59
percent
of
city
tax
revenue
is
generated
through
occupational
taxes,
25
percent
through
property
taxes
14
through
insurance
premium
taxes
and
tourism
revenue
makes
up
a
measly
2
percent.
H
H
It's
also
time
to
update
the
state's
outdated
gas
tax.
It
hasn't
been
updated
since
2015
we're
currently
the
lowest
of
all
the
contiguous
states,
the
average
for
kentucky
and
our
neighboring
states
is
36
cents.
A
gallon
kentucky
sits
at
26
cents
motor
fuels
taxes.
Taxes
collected
in
fiscal
year,
21
represent
the
second
lowest
amount
collected
since
fiscal
year.
12.
H
H
H
Our
road
funding
modernization
proposal
was
reached
in
agreement
with
caico
funds
over
the
fiscal
year.
2014
high
mark
of
825
million
dollars
would
be
evenly
split
between
the
municipal
and
county
road
aid
programs
at
13
each
it
will
hold
counties
harmless
while
helping
provide
the
critical
funding
needed
to
maintain
city
streets
and
bridges
that
are
instrumental
to
economic
development
and
promoting
quality
of
life.
H
H
H
Another
large
challenge
we're
facing
is
law
enforcement
training.
As
you
know,
the
law
enforcement
profession
is
not
one
that
that
people
are
generally
clamoring
to
get
into.
So
we
have
struggles
other
than
the
training
aspect,
but
cities
are
dealing
with
a
backlog
of
doc
jt
that
can
force
cadets
to
wait
several
months
for
a
class.
H
Paramedic
training
klc
had
testified
in
august
about
a
problem.
Cities
are
facing
dealing
with
life-saving
ems.
The
statewide
paramedic
shortage
is
leaving
some
communities
in
need
of
emergency
medical
staff.
Cities
often
pay
the
cost
of
training.
Only
to
have
these
newly
certified
paramedics
leave
for
higher
paying
jobs
in
the
private
sector
to
exacerbate
the
problem.
The
state
shifted
paramedic
training
into
more
of
a
college
academia
setting
than
the
previous
vocational
focus.
H
H
E
E
The
kern
covet
pandemic
resulted
in
an
increased
wave
of
overdose
deaths
up
to
up
nearly
50
percent
over
2020,
more
people
were
home.
Obviously
more
were
out
of
work
at
that
time
as
well.
Klc
supports
legislation
that
addresses
the
criminal
aspects
of
the
substance,
abuse
issue
and
those
that
take
a
proactive
stance
on
treatment,
rehabilitation,
training
and
workforce
reentry,
modernization
of
publication
requirements,
cost
city
taxpayers
about
1.4
million
a
year
publicly
owned
city
websites
are
available
free
of
charge
and
allow
documents
to
be
available
longer
house
bill.
E
For
property
tax
notification,
cities
are
looking
to
work
with
pvas
and
others
to
ensure
more
current
property
ownership
information
that
is
received
in
a
timely
manner.
We
like
to
streamline
the
process
for
proposing
a
tax
rate
that
would
generate
more
than
four
percent
more
revenue
than
the
compensating
rate
public
safety
personnel.
E
E
E
I
want
to
move
over
in
the
public
meetings
act,
and
this
is
regarding
closed
sessions
of
the
locally
elected
legislative
body
are
sometimes
required
to
protect
proprietary
information
and
taxpayer
resources.
As
you
all
well
know,
public
hearing
requirements,
mandatory
public
hearings
on
municipal
road
aid
and
local
government
economic
assistance
and
program
funds
are
often
inconvenient
for
citizens
and
unattended.
E
E
Municipal
audit
requirements
are
often
cumbersome
and
costly
for
cities
and
no
long,
no
long-term
debt
in
small
budgets.
When
you
are
involved
here
and
then
two,
if
you
look
at
defunct
home
owners
associations,
which
is
a
I'm
an
issue
for
some
of
our
cities
here
as
well
and
planned
unit
developments,
can
create
unfavorable
living
conditions
and
lead
to
concern
about
maintenance
of
common
areas.
E
Moving
on
to
wholesale
water
rates,
ability
for
municipal
utility
to
escrow
funds
from
a
proposed
rate
increase
of
appeal
to
the
public
service,
commission
utility
franchise
agreements
safeguards
for
local
governments
to
protect
citizens
from
utilities
that
violate
franchise
agreements.
We
have
a
few
cities
are
involved
with
this.
Many
cities
actually
are
involved
with
this
too,
as
well
damage
city
records,
natural
or
natural
disasters
such
as
flood
or
fire
can
hit.
Government
offices
replacing
damaged
records
is
often
complicated
and
expensive.
E
Allowing
an
affidavit
process
to
provide
documents
to
on
the
dlg
can
can
speed
up
or
can
help
speed
up
the
process
and
ensure
assets
are
not
frozen,
especially
for
individuals
and
governments
or
businesses.
I
should
say
tourism
commissions
cities
covered
by
a
regional
tourism
commission
need
representation
from
at
least
the
largest
city
in
each
county.
E
Paramedic
response
fees
we
talked
about
paramedic
before
the
president
did
paramedic
and
ems
are
vital,
but
costly
cities
often
foot
the
bill.
As
you
well
know,
a
user
fee
like
current
911
fees,
9-1-1
fees,
can
help
ensure
funding
is.
Is
there
to
maintain
these
life-saving
services
that
would
help
us
a
great
deal
tremendously
waste
taller
franchise
fees,
ensure
cities
providing
waste
collection,
do
not
encounter
lengthy
requirements
before
extending
an
agreement
to
a
waste.
Hauler
inactive
cities
is
another
item.
E
Inactive
cities
allow
cities
that
do
not
collect
funds
or
have
elected
officials
to
dissolve
through
an
administrative
process
to
allow
us
to
be
able
to
do
that
and
on
behalf
of
us
here
today.
I
want
to
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
you,
I'm
going
to
turn
it
back
over
to
the
president,
as
well
as
the
executive
director
and
gentlemen.
It's
your
floor.
G
Thank
you
all
we
will
be.
I
know
we
went
through
these
quickly
and
we'd
be
happy
to
provide
more
details
for
those
of
you
that
have
questions.
I
I
guess
first
off,
as
far
as
the
you
know:
local
options,
sales
taxes.
I
know,
having
recently
attended
a
caico
conference
and
met
with
the
county
judge
executives.
I
You
know
one
of
their
major
issues
is
the
fact
that
many
of
our
kentucky
counties,
especially
rural
counties,
are
being
starved
of
revenue
right
now,
since
you
know,
obviously,
if
you
have-
and
this
mainly
applies
to
counties
above
30
000-
that
a
lot
of
times,
industrial
development
areas
can
be
annexed
in
which
would
then
remove
that
revenue
from
the
cities
or
from
the
county's
occupational
tax
base.
I
know
that
that
is
happening.
I
I
can
think
of
one
instance
in
my
district,
where
they
literally
annexed
right
up
to
the
back
porch
of
some
property
owners.
Several
hundred
acres-
you
know,
essentially
you
know
constitutionally
counties-
are
the
subdivision
of
this
commonwealth.
I
I
mean
cities
are
chartered
by
author
race
for
the
general
assembly,
but
if
a
city
goes
bankrupt,
ultimately
those
responsibilities
fall
back
on
the
counties
and
there
is
an
expert
mechanism,
whereas
if
the
county
is
starved
at
revenue,
then
we
as
the
general
assembly,
if
some
financial
malady
were
to
happen,
would
be
responsible
to
take
upon
those
burdens.
I
G
Well,
obviously,
you
know
that's
something
that's
been
talked
about
for
a
long
time.
I-
and
this
really
highlights
the
point
senator
about
the
idea
of
the
restrictions
that
are
imposed
by
181
of
the
kentucky
constitution,
which
we're
going
to
talk
about
in
more
detail
with
chairman
meredith
you're,
really
you're
limited.
The
general
assembly
is
limited
with
regard
to
what
it
can
do
with
regard
to
expanding
those
revenue
options.
G
This
idea
of
competition
between
cities
and
counties
that
you're
hearing
in
a
few
communities-
and
most
of
them
are
working
very
well
together,
along
with
klc
and
and
caico
air
organizations.
But
this
competition
is
driven
by
antiquated
provision
in
the
constitution,
which
limits
us
to
franchise
fees,
property
taxes
and
occupational
license
taxes.
G
I
In
the
follow-up,
I
know
that
I
think
that
judge
moore
up
in
northern
kentucky
talked
about
how,
where
I
guess
his
county
was
under
30
000,
when
the
provisions
were
adopted.
They've
never
had
this
competition
because
you
know
annexations
don't
affect
his
bottom
line
at
all,
so
they've
kind
of
had
a
a
a
a
policy
of
shared
prosperity
and
growth
and
have
been
very
cooperative,
which
I
thought
was
was
a
very
interesting
perspective
on
that
and
then
another
thing.
I
I
noticed
within
your
another
complaint
that
we
heard
as
we
move
towards
criminal
justice
reform,
which
I
know
treatment's
a
part
of
that
we
seem
like
we're,
making
less
crimes,
felonies
and
misdemeanors,
which
then
falls
back
again
on
on
on
on
the
counties
for
jail
costs
and
and
in
many
cases
a
lot
of
these
misdemeanor
crimes,
particularly
involving
alcohol,
occur
within
city
limits,
because
in
kentucky
we
still
have
a
lot
of
dry
counties.
Yet
we'll
have
a
wet
city.
I
I
mean
I
can
think
of
some
episodes
where
police
have
just
lined
up
picking
people
off
coming
out
of
a
concert
and
then
those
you
know
overnight.
Jail
costs
do
fall
back
on
the
on
the
county.
If
you
were
to
you
know,
that
was
actually
something
that
was
shared
by
almost
all
80
or
90
judges
within
the
room.
Some
of
the
about
the
possibility,
considering
many
of
these
misdemeanors
are
committed
within
a
municipal
limit,
some
sort
of
shared
formula
on
on
jail
costs.
What
are
your
thoughts
on
that.
G
Well,
you
and
I
had
the
opportunity
to
have
this
discussion
very
directly
and,
let
me
say,
on
behalf
of
the
400
something
mayors
around
the
state
and
the
elected
city
officials.
I
lived
slept
with
the
deputy
county
judge
in
madison
county
for
for
a
long
time
for
the
past
16
years
at
the
end
of
this
week,
and
I've
been
hearing
a
lot
about
that,
and
I
will
tell
you
that
air
our
elected
city
officials
are
very
much
support.
G
The
idea
of
the
state
stepping
up
with
regard
to
its
responsibility
on
the
county
jails,
as
you
mentioned
very,
very
articulately,
the
county
governments
or
political
subdivisions
of
the
state,
performing
those
functions
on
behalf
of
the
state
state
government.
Yes,
we
have
city
police
officers
who
enforce
the
commonwealth's
laws.
We
made
a
decision
in
this
state
in
1976
to
consolidate
our
state
court
systems.
G
We
eliminated
municipal
municipal
court
systems,
and
so
I
think
we
would
encourage
and
like
to
see
the
state
step
up
and
help
our
officials
at
the
county
government
with
regard
to
their
responsibilities
that
houzz
house
of
commonwealth
violators,
these
indiv,
these
misdemeanors
violations
that
you
talk
about.
Felony
violations
or
other
things
that
that
county
governments
have
the
burden
in
performing
that
function.
On
behalf
of
the
state
warrant,
a
state
response
and
assistance
to
the
county
government
that
it's
not
a
zero-sum
game,
we
don't
see
it
as
a
zero-sum
game.
Senator
with
okay.
G
Let's,
because
cities
make
the
arrest
enforcing
the
commonwealth's
laws
again,
not
city
laws,
not
city
ordinances,
that
then
city
revenue
has
to
has
to
come
out.
The
solution
lies
with
the
state
state
government,
we're
very
much
supportive
and
support
our
county's
efforts
with
regard
to
working
with
you
all
as
a
general
assembly
to
get
that
address,
but
but
no.
J
G
Me
flat
out,
say:
city
officials
would
not
support
some
some
fee
for
booking
or
has
been
has
been
recommended
by
some
county
officials
around
this.
This
state
that
really
would
be
poor,
poor
public
policy
to
say,
oh
well,
a
city
officer
makes
the
arrest
so
in
order
to
get
them
booked
in
the
jail
we're
going
to
charge
a
city
city
a
fee
in
order
to,
in
order
to
do
that
has
been
suggested
by
some.
We
think
the
solution
lies
with
the
state
government
working
with
their
political
subdivisions.
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
here,
and
I
know
you
have
a
laundry
list
of
challenges.
That's
facing
you
and
such
and
I
wanted
to
you
mentioned
how
the
you
know:
the
cities,
our
population
is
growing
and
so
forth,
but
I
think
we
all
know
that
the
state
of
kentucky
in
general
population
is
really
not
keeping
peace
with
that,
and
I
wanted
to
ask
you
all
what
do
you?
K
How
do
you
see
the
cities
really
growing
their
population
because
that's
going
to
be
a
key
in
terms
of
putting
this
in
a
better
position
down
the
road
not
from
a
competitive
standpoint,
but
also
from
education
standpoint
as
well
as
just
you
know,
attraction
business
and
such
what
do
you
see
as
your
as
some
opportunities
to
grow
population,
giving
your
limitations
on
the
revenues
that
you
have
and
that's
that's
fine,
but
we
need
to
change
the
actual
structure.
In
particular,
I'm
talking
about
tax
reform.
K
I
don't
know
how
much
it's
going
to
fruition
this
this
coming
session,
but
it's
something
that
we've
been
and
I'll
speak
myself.
We've
been
sitting
on
our
on
the
side
for
the
past
couple
years.
We
made
a
good
initial
start
several
years
ago
and
we
need
to
ramp
it
up
and
we
need
to
ramp
it
up
hard
and
fast
in
order
to
get
us
in
a
better
position.
K
So
I
want
to
find
out
what
do
you
see
in
terms
of
how
you
can
grow
your
population
in
terms
of
the
cities
and
so
forth?.
H
I
think
a
lot
of
it
goes
to
what
you
spoke
to
about
the
restrictions
on
revenue.
I
think
the
pandemic
has
given
us
a
real
opportunity
to
attract
people
who
work
from
home
from
other
states.
I
think
the
immigration
from
the
west
coast
and
the
east
coast
of
people
who
maybe
are
making
california
wages
and
living
in
for
sales
real
estate,
and
I
think,
the
more
we
can
promote
the
the
amenities
that
people
are
accustomed
to
in
in
some
of
those
other
parts
of
the
country.
H
K
Expect-
and
I
appreciate
it,
could
you
put
a
little
more
meat
on
the
bone,
and
that
sounds
great,
and
I
I
I
hear
you,
but
I
need
some
a
little
more
concrete
in
terms
of
what
are
you
talking
about?
Are
you
talking
about
possibly
looking
at
some
type
of
forfeiture
of
your
occupational
taxes?
Are
you
looking
at
some
type
of
other
compensation
in
terms
of
of
other
incomes
that
you'll
get
in
order
to
basically
throw
the
throw
the
piece
out
there?
K
You
know
a
little
carrot
and
hopefully
they'll
bring
you'll
bring
in
a
you
know,
pretty
pretty
big,
I
hate
to
say
rabbit,
but
big,
big,
big
rabbit.
You
know
coming
and
doing
that.
So
could
you
put
a
little
more
meat
on
that?
For
me.
H
Well,
you
all
just
want
one
specific:
the
legislature
had
passed
a
statute
that
would
have
incentivized
people
that
move
into
the
state
that
work
from
home.
I
think
it
may
have
been
vetoed,
but
that
was
something
that
we
were
looking
to
expand
upon
at
the
local
level.
H
Really
you
know
those
are
competing
principles
because
you
want
to
would
rather
be
able
to
tax
consumption
than
than
the
income
of
people,
and
I
think
those
those
are
the
like.
I
said
speaking
for
sales,
we're
trying
to
attract
those
in-migrants
from
other
states
who
are
our
professional
work
from
home.
A
K
I
want
to
play
hypothetical
with
you,
let's
say
we're
in
2022
and
we
won't
repeat
what
happened
in
the
house
side
of
our
colleagues
that
did
not
come
forward
in
terms
of
you
know,
passing
the
legislation
that
we
would
be
much
better
position
now.
If
we
came
things
came
fruition
back
then,
let's
say
2022:
we
we
changed
the
they
changed
the
constitution,
everything's
great
and
now,
where
are
we
in
terms
of
the
sales
tax?
H
I
don't
think
I
think,
what's
great
about
kentucky.
Cities
is
the
diversity
of
across
the
state,
large
and
small,
urban
and
rural
cities.
I
don't
think
consumption
taxes
for
every
city.
I
can't
sit
here
and
tell
you
that
if
you,
if
you
allowed
the
flexibility
to
do
it,
then
I
would
go
home
and
ask
the
council
to
do
it.
So
I
think
the
constitutional
amendment
allows
us
to
have
that
holistic
discussion
with
the
general
assembly
about
how
tax
policy
should
look.
H
So
I
I
I
know
I
probably
didn't
answer
your
question,
which
was
a
hypothetical
but
hypothetically.
I
I
don't
know.
G
A
A
F
Gentlemen,
thank
you
for
your
presentation.
It
was
compact,
but
there's
a
lot
there
and
I
just
want
to
zero
in
on
road
funding.
You
mentioned
that
you
just
came
out
of
your
board
meeting.
66
cities
represented
there.
We
know
the
last
month
we've
seen
huge
commitments
by
the
auto
industry
on
batteries.
F
F
G
Gonna,
let
me
answer
this
one
too,
so
zamberg.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
all
very
much.
There
was
considerable
discussion
about
that
and
it
has
been
part
of
this
discussion
going
along
what
happens
when
we
see
the
national
policy
change.
We're
definitely
seeing
it
really
closely
here
in
kentucky,
and
that
really
has
highlighted,
highlighted
the
issue
right
now.
We
we
are
in
kentucky
and
the
road
funding.
The
immediate
need
is
to
address
this,
the
gas
tax,
that's
what
kentucky's,
relying
on
as
a
state
government
for
funding
the
state
government.
G
That's
what
our
locals
rely
on
both
cities
and
county
governments
in
terms
of
county
road
aid
and
city,
road
aid
and
making
these
decisions
we
have
to
modernize.
We
have
to
modernize
that
formula
and
that's
going
to
take
a
really
a
three-way
partnership
here
with
the
state
as
a
state
change,
whether
they
go
to
a
vehicle
miles.
G
Traveled
type
situation,
which
personally
makes
me
cringe
cringe
a
little
bit
as
much
as
I
as
much
as
I
drive
from
from
richmond
to
frankfort
and
lexington
and
other
places,
but
but
from
a
from
a
policy
perspective
the
state's
going
to
have
to
shift.
But
I
can
tell
you
this:
we
can't
just
leave
the
cities
and
counties
in
terms
of
setting
that
proposal
to
the
side.
G
The
cities
and
counties
are
going
to
have
to
share
formulaically
in
in
whatever
is
developed
as
a
as
a
comprehensive
approach
to
that,
and-
and
that
was
the
fear
in
the
discussion
at
the
board
meetings-
was
that
oh
we're
migrating
away
from
gas.
This
estate
modernizes
it
to
fund
the
state,
transportation
or
state
funding
formula
where
cities
and
counties
going
to
be
in
that
that
discussion
in
the
overall
approach.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
discussion
to
come
on
that.
F
Yeah,
I
just
think
that
we
need
to
be
forward
thinking
I
mean
it's
just
I
understand
your
immediate
need,
but
you
know
we're
hesitant
to
address
this
issue.
I
mean
it's
not
something
we
like
to
address
every
year,
so
we
need
to
be
very
forward
thinking
in
the
future.
So
thank
you
for
your
presentation,
representative,
johnson.
C
C
I
think
the
the
concept
of
taxation
is
that
it
is
our
job
to
take
as
much
as
we
possibly
have
to
from
private
citizens
to
operate,
and
no
more
than
that
when
it
comes
to
taxation,
does
that
make
sense,
as
you
talk
about
the
local
sales
tax
in
the
world
of
kovid
and
in
the
amount
of
money
that
we're
that's
coming
in
from
the
federal
government?
C
Is
this
really
the
time
to
be
talking
about
potentially
additional
taxes
on
our
private
citizens
when
we
know
what
they're
going
through
right
now,
you
know
we've
had
many
conversations
about
what's
going
on
in
in
the
restaurant
world.
That
sort
of
thing
is
this
really
the
time
to
continue
to
push
for
additional
taxes
on
our
aren't
our
private
citizens
and
our
businesses?
C
H
Would
I
would
argue
that
we're
not
talking
about
additional
taxes
necessarily
but
but
being
able
to
diversify
the
source
of
that
revenue?
I'm
completely
sympathetic
to
the
restaurant
industry
has
taken
a
tremendous
hit
now
the
hospitality
industry
as
a
whole
a
lot
of
other
industries.
C
Well,
let's
be
clear
that,
regardless
of
which
direction
it
comes
from,
there's
only
one
source
of
revenue
from
taxation
and
that's
the
private
citizen,
so,
however,
we
get
there,
we
can
shift
the
paperwork
any
way.
We
want
we're
still
taking
it
from
the
private
citizens,
and
I
think-
and
particularly
in
this
time,
we
need
to
be
thinking
seriously
about.
C
Do
we
want
to
do
anything,
that's
going
to
burden
our
private
citizens
more
than
they
already
are,
so
your
position
might
have
good
foundations
and
good
motives,
but
we
need
to
think
very
carefully
about
what
we're
doing
to
people
in
this
time
when
they're
already
suffering
as
much
as
they
are,
and
that's
my
point
I
mean
I'm
not
necessarily
advancing
against
you
guys,
I
believe
in
local
rule,
but
maybe
we
can
think
about
something
that
doesn't
involve
taking
money
out
of
our
citizens,
pockets
to
see
if
we
can
help
them
in
some
other
way.
G
G
We
went
to
great
lengths
to
make
the
point
there
are
the
treasury
department
has
regulated
red
taped
and
and
really
made
it
difficult
right
now
our
cities
and
counties
both
I
think
jim
henderson
from
caico,
would
tell
you
are
struggling
out
for
ways
to
figure
out
how
to
spend
the
money
to
conform
with
these
tread
with
this
treasury
guidance,
which
is
really
policy
based
in
a
lot
of
ways.
There
are
strings
and
strings
attached
to
that,
and
it's
one-time
one-time
funding.
So
we
want
to
make
that
point
with
arpa,
but
just
to
re-emphasize.
G
Yes,
there's
one
source,
I
agree
with
you:
there
is
one
source
of
revenue
they're
coming
from
private
businesses
and
private
citizens,
but
right
now
you
all,
as
the
state
policy
makers,
can't
even
engage
in
a
productive
dialogue
about
how
to
more
fairly
shift
that
you're
precluded.
Based
on
that
provision
of
the
constitution
that
we're
going
to
talk
about
upcoming,
so
if
there's
a
more
equitable
way
to
do
it,
you
can't
you
can't
even
have
that
dialogue,
because
your
all's
hands
are
tied
based
on
that
constitutional
provision.
C
D
J
Mr
chairman
jd,
you
know,
I've
got
a
bill
request
related
to
krs-109,
yes,
sir,
and
I
would
be
happy
to
discuss
with
you
and
see
if
I
can
incorporate
that
provision
on
waste
hall
or
franchise
fees.
G
A
A
L
Yes,
thank
you
chairman.
My
name
is
tammy
vernon,
I'm
with
department
for
local
government
and
I
branch
manager
over
cities
and
special
districts.
I've
been
with
dlg
since
2007,
and
I
have
with
me
bill.
L
All
right,
okay,
we're
going
to
start
with
what
an
spge
is
and
spges
are
independent
political
subdivisions
of
the
state
government
entities
that
exercise
less
than
statewide
jurisdiction
and
are
organized
for
the
purpose
of
performing
specific
services
within
limited
boundaries.
A
few
examples
include
libraries,
tourism
and
extensions,
as
well
as
air
boards,
and
many
more.
L
Our
topics
for
today
is
talking
about
dlg's
compliance,
also
an
update
to
the
new
spge
user
dashboard,
which
is
the
system
and
also
go
over
the
lrc
compliance
report,
and
this
data
is
as
of
924
2021,
and
an
update
will
be
available
for
the
compliance
after
we
move
to
the
new
system,
and
I
will
be
sharing
with
you
the
calendar
for
that.
L
Now
this
here
is
the
the
spge
system,
which
is
the
dashboard,
and
it's-
and
I
think,
last
year,
when
we
presented,
we
had
just
finished
signing
the
statement
of
workflow
with
cot
to
have
the
new
system
developed,
I'm
happy
to
announce
effective
november
19th.
The
new
system
will
roll
out
to
the
spges
who
operate
on
a
calendar
year.
This
includes
approximately
200
spges,
which
include
water
districts
and
a
few
housing
authorities.
L
This
gives
us
the
perfect
opportunity
to
make
sure
the
system
is
working
properly
and
to
fix
any
unforeseen
issues
before
we
roll
out
the
new
system
to
the
larger
population,
with
approximately
1
650
spges
in
july,
also,
as
in
the
first
system,
dlg
developed
back
in
2015
or
2015,
we
would
like
to
have
an
opportunity
to
present
a
demo
to
the
committee.
Once
we
go
live
cot
has
worked
extremely
hard
and
is
providing
us
with
the
maserati
we
had
always
dreamed
of.
L
So
I've
been
very
impressed
with
what
I
have
seen
and
I'm
very
excited
about
what
the
future
holds
with
this
new
system.
Now
the
calendar
shows
the
january
through
december.
We
call
these
cycles
cycle.
One
will
be
rolling
out
november
19th
of
2021,
and
then
the
cycle
two
which
is
april
through
march,
will
be
rolling
out
february,
15,
2021
and
then
cycle
three,
which
is
the
july
through
june,
which
is
may
15
of
2021
and
finally,
the
cycle,
four,
which
is
october
through
september,
which
is
august
the
15th.
L
L
This
is
based
off
of
the
user
dashboard,
so
this
is
looking
at
the
spge
user
logging
into
the
system
and
having
their
oversight
agencies
logging
into
their
system
on
their
behalf
and
also
will
allow
a
cpa
to
log
in
with
the
cpa,
they
will
have
like
a
like.
If
the
spga
contract
I
mean
spge
contract
to
the
cpa
is
like
a
three-year
contract.
They
can
put
an
expiration
date
in
there
and
then
once
that
expiration
date
hits
that
cpas
access
goes
away.
L
The
on
the
oversight
agencies
we
have
like
the
kentucky
rural
water
association.
They
will
have
access
to
log
in
to
be
able
to
walk,
to
monitor
compliance.
They
will
also
have
access
to
be
able
to
upload
audits
or
complete
budgets
or
so
forth.
L
The
dashboard
administration
svgs
will
now
have
a
checklist
in
the
past.
It
was
very
confusing
for
an
spge
when
they
logged
in
knowing
what
they
needed
to
complete.
This
is
like
a
a
checklist
when
they
first
log
in
they're,
going
to
be
able
to
see
exactly
what
they
need
to
complete
when
they
click
that
it
will
bring
up
the
registration
form
when
it's
complete
and
they've
made
payment,
then
it
will
store
into
the
historical
data.
For
you
know,
future
review
they'll
also
be
able
to
maintain
their
account
information.
L
One
of
the
things
that
we
struggled
with
the
old
system
was
there
was
no
way
to
update
their
address
unless
it
was
on
the
registration
form
or
update
their
email
or
update
their
board
members,
because
it
was
just
on
the
registration
form.
With
this
new
system,
they
can
go
in
to
the
new
system
anytime
and
update
their
contact
information.
L
The
board
meetings
dates
and
the
board
members
when
this
is
a
new
feature,
especially
with
the
covid
we
are
allowing
when
a
board
meeting
is
set
up
with
the
dates.
They
can
also
allow
or
add
a
link
that
will
direct
them
to
a
video
conference
so
and
as
well
as
have
it
on
site
and
also
they
can
update
their
board
members
as
they
change
versus
waiting
for
the
registration
period.
L
In
the
past
we
had
our
message.
Our
means
of
message
was
by
phone
or
through
a
community
inbox
that
we
currently
have
on
our
system
in
the
future.
What
we
will
have
is
an
automated
message
system,
when
the
spge
logs
in
they're,
going
to
have
a
little
button
at
the
top
right
corner.
That
basically
says
messages.
L
It
will
say
you
got
two
messages:
you
log
in
you're,
going
to
get
your
30-day
non-compliance,
letters
you're,
going
to
get
your
system
notifications
that
you,
the
system,
is
now
open
for
your
entries,
you're
also
going
to
get
notifications
for
a
week
reminders
and
any
type
of
communications
coming
from
dlg.
L
In
addition,
in
the
next
release,
which
will
be
the
april
cycle,
you
will
also
have
the
two-way
meaning
that
they
will
be
able
to
communicate
back
to
us
and
will
be
able,
through
the
application,
manage
the
emails
and
they'll
be
permanent
records
for
us
for
open
records
requests
specialty
forms.
There
are
two
specialty
forms,
which
is
the
housing
authority,
exclusion
and
the
grant
exemption
form
both
those
forms,
housing
authority
exclusion
is
only
going
to
be
rolled
out
to
svgs
that
are
under
krs
80s.
L
L
L
The
data
export
with
the
new
system
we're
going
to
have
the
legacy
data.
That's
anything
prior
to
fiscal
year,
2020
will
be,
is
considered
legacy
data
that
data
is
going
to
be
available
to
the
svges
and
in
the
future,
to
the
public
portal
to
be
downloaded
to
be
able
to
do
any
form
of
analysis
and
so
forth.
That
will
include
budget
information
that
will
include
registration
and
that
will
be
including
the
audits
also
in
the
new
system
you're
going
to
be
able
to
download
anything
in
the
future.
L
With
that
now
we
had
issues
with
taking
the
legacy
data
into
the
new
system,
because
the
new
systems
format
is
so
much
better
and
the
data
is
much
cleaner,
whereas
the
legacy
system
data
had
some
issues
with
it
and
we
were
unable
to
get
everything
converted
perfect.
So
we
decided
to
leave
that
as
consider
legacy
data.
L
L
Okay,
all
right:
in
the
last
year
we
had
talked
about
different
phases.
We
had
phase
one
through
six
on
october,
the
13th,
which
I
think
was
just
this
past
week.
L
We
kicked
off
our
meeting
with
the
public
portal
and
we
are
currently
working
with
the
cot
members
and
we're
building
this
storyboards
and
process
maps
to
do
that.
Our
estimated
go
live
date
is
by
the
year
end
of
2022,
and
and
again
it
will
have
the
legacy
and
current
submissions
can
be
exported
to
csv
or
excel
for
analysis.
L
We
worked
very
closely
with
the
fire
commission.
We
definitely
have
a
clear
picture
of
who
belongs
to
dlg
and
who
belongs
to
the
fire.
Commission,
and
those
numbers
are
now
rolled
all
into
one
graph
here
and
it
looks
like
if
you
look
at
the
total
compliance.
L
So
these
numbers
are
as
of
9
24
21.
L
We
have
had
a
huge
amount
of
spges
to
become
compliant,
so
I
look
for
that
96
to
be
more
of
a
98
to
a
99
today,
but
I
cannot
run
those
reports
until
after
we
get
migrated
in
and
through
the
blackout
for
the
november,
the
19th
so
and
that's
basically
what
I
have
I'll
any
questions
or
concerns
anyone
has.
B
Chairman,
I
don't
have
a
question.
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
think
these
folks,
testifying
from
the
administration
who
are
working
from
home.
It
really
is
a
lot
more
effective
when
you
can
be
here
in
person-
and
I
understand
that
zoom
has
its
time
and
its
place.
But
we
got
a
room
full
of
people
from
the
league
of
cities
in
caico
who
are
here
testifying
in
person
and.
B
A
Saying
none.
Thank
you
all
for
the
presentation.
This
is
something
that
is
required
annually
in
compliance
with
senate
or
house
bill,
one
from
2014,
I
believe,
and
so
we
had
to
do
that
next,
we'll
have
the
same
compliance
report
from
the
fire
commission
related
to
the
entities
that
they
regulate.
M
M
Sorry
about
that
I'll
try
to
be
as
brief
as
possible,
just
to
give
you
all
an
update
of
where
we
are
with
our
compliance.
M
Sorry
about
that,
as
of
the
time
we
submitted
our
report
to
mr
mitchell
on
october
13th,
we
were
sitting
at
88
percent
compliance
22
non-compliant.
We
have
106
of
487
that
were
non-compliant
since
then.
We've
reduced
that
to
93
non-compliant
with
the
19,
and
it
sits
right
in
line
with
where
we
were
at
last
year
on
non-compliance
at
22.
At
this
time
and
feedback.
We
get
some
of
the
reasons
for
this
again
are
the
coven
19,
causing
delays
and
me
delays
and
meeting
cancellations
with
a
lot
of
these
volunteer
non-profit
organizations.
M
They
just
can't
meet
or
choose
not
to
meet
the
way
they
and
then
a
high
loss
of
volunteer
firefighters
and
a
frequency
of
administrative
changes,
just
causes
communication
issues
and
then
just
confusion
over
the
reporting
requirements.
M
To
give
you
an
idea
of
where
we've
been
so
far
or
finished
out
in
years
past
for
fiscal
year,
18
through
20,
we
have
closed
out
anywhere
from
97
to
99
percent,
and
we
will
continue
this
year
to
to
push
this
out,
and
I
see
no
reason
we
won't.
You
know,
get
close
to
100
percent
this
year
as
well
on
compliance.
M
This
chart
here,
I
hope
you
all-
can
see
it.
Okay
just
gives
of
the
381
departments
that
have
reported
to
us.
So
far
this
year,
322
of
those
84
are
operating
on
revenues
of
less
than
a
hundred
thousand
dollars.
M
With
going
back
to
some
of
the
reporting
problems,
I
indicate
on
that
first
page
with
covid,
or
whatever
reason
is
you
know,
with
these
being
volunteer
agencies,
ks95a
055
and
the
reg
that
goes
with
that
states
that
we
will
what
we
call
audit
or
run
compliance
reports
where
we
actually
go
out
and
physically
meet
with
these
agencies
every
once
every
at
least
once
every
four
years.
M
We
also
go
over
training
and
other
information
with
the
fire
departments
when
we
meet
with
them
one
thing:
deputy
executive
roberts
and
larry
potter,
our
director,
we
have
met
and
we've
identified,
that
that
we're
not
communicating
enough
with
the
fire
departments
the
confusion
of
these
reports,
so
we
identified
some
of
the
issues
there,
with
high
rate
volunteer
turnover.
M
The
information
we
find
when
we
do
go
out.
The
information
on
these
financial
reviews
that
are
submitted
don't
always
necessarily
match
what
we
find
and
it's
not
in
what
we
feel
people
being
deceitful
with
what
they
report.
It's
just
confusion
over
state
aid
funding
grants
what
they
report,
what
they
don't
report.
M
So
one
thing
we
have
decided
to
do
internally.
We've
made
several
organizational
changes,
but
among
those
is
we're
adding
an
additional
compliance
specialist
to
the
staff,
which
will
be
four
of
us,
so
we
are
going
to
begin
going
out
and
meeting
the
fire
departments
at
with
their
needs
and
start
meeting
with
them,
instead
of
as
the
law
state.
M
You
know
at
least
once
every
four
years
we're
going
to
meet
with
these
agencies
every
12
to
18
months,
face
to
face
and
in
person
to
try
to
exceed
the
expectations
of
the
law
and
to
to
be
more
transparent
with
these
departments
and
and
help
them,
and
I
provided
with
you
all
through
mr
mitchell,
a
breakdown
of
each
individual
department.
I
know
it's
a
cumbersome
spreadsheet,
but
that's
all
I
have
unless
you
all
have
any
questions.
A
Any
questions
for
members
of
the
committee
at
this
time
again
this
is
a
report
that
the
fire
commission
has
to
make
annually
to
us
with
regard
to
their
compliance.
I
think
there
are
detailed
compliance
reports
from
both
them
and
the
department
of
local
government
if
you
have
special
purpose
government
entities
and
fire
departments
in
your
district
that
you'd
like
to
check
on
their
compliance
status,
those
would
be
in
those
detailed
reports,
sing.
No
questions.
A
Thank
you,
gentlemen,
for
being
here
to
make
the
report.
Thank
you
this
time,
I'm
going
to
turn
over
the
chairmanship
to
my
co-chair
chairman
meals,
and
my
me,
and
the
guests
that
I
have
with
me
will
come
to
start
talking
about
the
constitutional
amendment.
F
F
So
the
final
item
on
our
agenda
is
a
discussion
of
the
constitutional
amendment
related
to
local
taxation
and
we've
already
kind
of
touched
on
it
a
little
bit
this
morning.
But
I'd
encourage
members
to
listen.
I'm
sure
they're
going
to
have
a
very
detailed
presentation,
so
co-chair
meredith
when
you
are
ready
the
floor
is
yours.
A
A
I
think
for
any
of
you
all
who
have
been
around
the
general
assembly
very
long.
This
is
not
a
completely
new
topic
to
you,
and
I
think
most
of
you
all
who
have
been
on
this
committee
for
any
length
of
time,
know
that
when
it
comes
to
business
issues
when
it
comes
to
conservative
physical
policy,
I
I
stand
for
those
issues
pretty
strongly,
but
I'm
also
willing
to
work
across
the
aisle
and
try
to
work
with
folks
from
both
democrat
and
republican
backgrounds,
to
try
to
bring
about
good
public
policy.
A
This
effort
stemmed
from
about
a
year's
worth
of
research
that
started
in
2019
about
the
end
of
the
2019
session,
with
a
lot
of
different
stakeholders.
Folks,
from
the
business
background,
we've
had
a
lot
of
conversations
with
folks
in
economic
development,
but
but
our
core
partners
in
this
whole
thing
have
been
the
kentucky
association
of
counties
and
the
kentucky
league
of
cities.
A
From
from
day
one
we've
brought
in
information
from
national
and
state-based
think
tanks
to
try
to
research
this
properly
and
know
where
we
stand
as
a
commonwealth,
and
so
I
want
to
just
summarize
a
little
of
the
data
that
we
came
up
with,
and
I
have
a
large
book
here
of
research
that
has
gone
on
over
that
period
of
time.
A
But
I'm
going
to
summarize
it
hopefully,
very
briefly,
for
you
just
to
give
you
an
idea.
There
are
416
cities
across
kentucky
of
those
59.1
percent
of
their
revenues,
come
from
local
occupational
and
business
productivity
taxes,
forty
nine
percent
from
pay
work,
payroll
deductions,
five
and
a
half
percent
from
net
profits
and
one
point:
one
percent
in
gross
receipts
for
our
120
counties
in
kentucky.
A
42.6
percent
of
their
revenues
come
from
business
and
payroll
taxes,
39.1
percent,
coming
from
payroll
deductions
and
three
and
a
half
percent
from
net
profits.
Taxes.
A
And
then,
if
you
look
at
us
on
a
national
picture,
there
are
38
states
nationally
that
allow
for
sales
tax
at
the
local
level
in
their
tax
codes.
Only
17
states
across
the
nation
have
some
form
of
a
local
income
tax
like
we
do
in
kentucky
we're
in
the
minority
there
already.
A
A
Coming
on
those
businesses
and
individuals
that
we
can't
do
anything
about
until
we
change
the
provisions
in
section
181
of
the
kentucky
constitution,
that's
just
a
basic
overview
of
the
research
that
we
came
to
where
we
stand
nationally.
A
What
our
revenue
model
looks
like
with
regard
to
locally
based
income
taxes
in
kentucky,
and
at
this
time
I
want
to
give
my
guests
an
opportunity
to
speak
a
little
bit
on
the
issue
as
well.
We'll
start
with
jim
henderson
former
judge
executive
in
simpson,
county
and
executive
director
of
the
kentucky
association
of
counties.
D
Thank
you,
chairman
meredith,
you
introduced
me,
so
I
don't
have
to
introduce
myself
and
you
know
as
long
as
I
I
was
judge
elected
judge
in
98
in
simpson,
county
and
as
long
as
I
can
remember,
being
in
county
government,
local
government
there's
been
talk
about
tax
modernization,
tax
reform,
tax
policy,
and
you
know
sometimes
those
things
mean
different
things
to
different
people,
but
I
can
remember
when
governor
fletcher
began
talking
about
tax,
modernization
and
and
and
again
this
topic
comes
up
frequently
even
since,
but
the
reality
is
as
hard
as
that
is
for
you
all
at
the
state
level
to
talk
about
it's
virtually
impossible
for
us
at
the
local
level,
without
at
least
the
change
that
chairman
meredith's
talking
about.
D
D
Some
of
that
mantra
was
about
taxing
things
that
are
growing
taxing
the
the
parts
of
the
sectors
of
your
economy
that
are
actually
going
to
be
sustainable
and
so
right
now,
as
as
jd
mentioned,
even
earlier,
we're
limited
both
cities
and
counties
on
what
we
can
tax.
But,
more
importantly,
I
think,
as
chairman
meredith
said,
the
fact
that
38
other
states
see
that
a
heavier
emphasis
on
a
consumption
tax
at
the
local
level
is
more
competitive.
D
More
advantageous
and
more
sustainable
tells
us
that
we
should
be
thinking
about
that
and
we
may
just
simply
be
behind
some
of
you
all
again
know.
I
was
judging
simpson
county,
a
border
county
with
tennessee,
and
we
talk
a
lot
about
tennessee
as
kind
of
the
example
of
a
state
that's
done
well
and
that
we
might
want
to
model
our
tax
policy
or
tax
code.
D
After
and
my
neighboring
county
to
the
south
had
collectively
a
2.7
has
a
2.75
local
tax,
a
a
state
sales
tax
of
nine
or
seven
percent,
a
collective
of
a
little
less
than
ten
percent.
It's
one
of
the
higher
in
the
country,
but
it
clearly
has
not
hampered
the
growth
in
tennessee
and
the
economy
that
has
been
bolstered
by
by
the
state
over
the
past
a
few
decades.
D
We
did
a
poll.
I
shared
this
a
couple
of
years
ago
when
we
testified
after
our
conference
in
19.
We
didn't
have
a
in-person
conference
last
year,
but
we
polled
our
members.
We
had
voting
machines
set
up
at
our
conference,
our
annual
caico
conference,
and
we
have
a
bipartisan
group
of
county
officials
across
the
state.
As
chairman
meredith
mentioned,
this
is
not
a
party
issue
69
of
county
officials
who
were
polled
at
that
conference
two
years
ago,
support
as
a
tax
policy,
raising
the
sales
tax
and
lowering
the
income
tax.
D
That's
a
generic
question
not
necessarily
related
to
a
specific
proposal,
but
those
are
the
same
individuals
that
if
given
the
authority
to
levy
a
local
sales,
tax
would
be
making
the
decision
about
what
type
of
local
taxes
best
generate.
The
revenues
that
are
needed
that
serve
the
constituency
fairly
and
and
to
jd's
earlier
point
continued
to
grow
our
economy.
So
I
think,
that's
all
I'll,
add
chairman
meredith
and
I'll.
Let
you
decide
who
next
and.
A
I
don't
want
to
over
emphasize
this,
but
to
jim's
point
director:
henderson
is
from
a
border
county
in
simpson
county.
If
you
look
at
warren
county
and
edmondson
county,
the
counties
that
I
represent,
we're
only
we
only
have
about
one
county
between
us
and
that
state
line
as
well
into
tennessee
and
you're,
going
to
hear
from
carter
hendricks
from
christian
county
in
just
a
little
bit
as
well
about
that
state
line.
A
Tennessee
has
outpaced
us
in
growth
significantly,
since
the
early
1980s
we've
lost
a
congressional
district,
I
think
they
have
gained
two
in
that
time
period.
They're
at
nine.
Currently,
their
population
is
approximately
two
million
more
than
the
commonwealth
is
today
and,
furthermore,
it
doesn't
take
a
long
trip
or
a
field
trip
into
nashville.
Many
of
us
were
there
for
for
a
conference
just
a
few
months
ago
to
see
the
growth
that
is
going
on
all
over
that
area.
A
G
Well,
I
will
not
wear
out
my
welcome
and
and
I'll
be
very
brief.
I
want
to
put
my
legal
hat
back
on
just
just
for
a
moment
and
maybe
put
some
more
meat
on
the
bones
for
representative
fleming
in
his
question.
G
You
know
what
we're
taught
we're
talking
about
a
constitutional
amendment
here
legally,
which
has
to
be
done
a
constitutional
limit
or
constitutional
provision
that
doesn't
we
say,
cities
and
counties
are
limited,
but
you
really
have
to
look
at
it.
This
way,
you
all
are
limited
the
general
assembly
we
spent
a
long
time
last
session.
G
G
All
it
does
is
vest
you
all
with
the
legislative
power,
the
same
people
who
represent
the
individuals
that
city
and
county
officials
represent
to
have
a
discussion
about
how
to
design
tax
policy.
It
does
not
impose
a
tax,
it
won't
impose
a
tax
just
by
virtue
of
its
enactment
it
will.
It
will
allow
a
robust
policy
discussion
to
occur
where
you
all
retain.
We
talk
about
home,
rule
home
rule
home
rule
you
all.
We
all
hear
that
from
us
all
the
time.
G
This
is
not
home
rule
on
taxation
either
the
general
assembly
will
retain
its
authority
over
how
local
government
tax
systems
are
designed.
You
all
will
decide
in
the
legislation
what
parameters
local
governments
have,
whether
or
not
there's
a
cap
on
net
profits
tax,
whether
or
not
there's
a
cap
on
a
potential
sales
tax
or
whether
you
even
want
to
vest
that
authority
to
allow
local
government
to
enact
it.
G
But
this
is
about
giving
the
general
assembly
more
latitude
to
have
a
discussion
to
address
some
of
the
issues
like
senator
willer
brought
up,
and
so
it's
not
it's
not
an
immediate
tax.
We
hear
that
that
concern.
I
think
from
having
a
wild
west
of
local
government
taxation.
That's
not
what
this
is.
That's
not
what
this
is
that
this
will
just
facilitate
the
discussions
for
you
all
to
enact
legislation
to
implement,
implement
the
policy,
because
we
can't
even
have
that
that
dialogue
right
now.
I
think
it's
really
fitting
you
know
just
as
a
today.
G
G
G
We
want
to
be
competitive
with
their
surrounding
states,
we
want
to
be
competitive
and
we
want
a
lower
lower
tax
burden.
None
of
the
mayors
that
I
represent.
All
about
bipartisan
by
the
way
nonpartisan
407
of
our
416
cities
are
elected
on
a
non-partisan
basis,
so
we
elect,
I
represent
democrats
and
republicans
and
independents.
I
don't
even
know
what
half
of
them
are,
but
we
we
want
to
be
able
to
represent
our
constituency.
G
We
don't
have
a
great
desire
to
tax
their
constituents.
We
want
to
do
what
representative
johnson
talked
about.
We
want
to
raise
enough
revenue
to
provide
the
services
that
our
constituents
demands
and
that's
going
to
be
diverse
from
community
to
community.
The
tax
bases
are
different.
That's
a
beauty
of
kentucky
pikeville
and
paducah.
I
know
they're
always
used,
but
elkhorn
city,
senator,
wheeler
and
wycliffe
are
very
different.
Very
different
communities
in
kentucky
their
tax
bases
are
different.
So
we
want
to
have
that
discussion
have
the
flexibility,
so
we
can
represent
our
constituents.
G
We
don't
want
to
over
tax
them,
it's
not
they're
elected
as
well.
They
don't
want
to
do
things
that
are
necessarily
politically
unpopular.
They
have
they
have
their
ears
to
their
constituents
and
will
do
what's
right
by
their
constituents
in
terms
of
advancing
our
communities
and
thereby
helping
the
entire
state
progress.
If
we
have
this
this
flex,
if
you
all
have
this
flexibility
to
have
the
policy
discussion.
A
A
A
A
That
the
number
one
recommendation
from
that
committee
at
that
time
in
the
general
assembly,
which
was
made
up
of
members
of
the
house
and
senate
talking
about
local
tax
policy,
was
the
need
for
constitutional
amendment
and
statutory
changes.
That
goes
back
as
far
as
1996
and
97..
I
think
jd
found
a
report
with
what
was
the
predecessor
of
the
kentucky
league
of
cities
from
1987..
A
We
had
a
a
vote
in
the
general
assembly,
not
long
after.
I
first
got
here
10
11
years
ago
about
a
local
option:
sales
tax
proposal
that
was
very
narrowly
crafted
about
specific
projects.
So
looking
to
flexibility
for
our
local
governments
with
regard
to
tax
policy
has
been
something
that's
been
talked
about.
A
I
mean
talk
about
beating
the
dead
horses.
They
say
it's
been,
it's
been
beat
until
it's
more
than
dead,
but
but
again
I
think
you
have
the
commitment
for
me
that
if
this
does
happen,
if
we
do
pass
this
constitutional
amendment,
if
the
voters
of
kentucky
ratify
this
constitutional
amendment,
when
we
pass
a
statutory
framework,
it's
going
to
be
something.
That's
well
thought
out
we're
going
to
deal
with
issues
about
how
cities
and
counties
will
share
the
revenue
within
the
boundaries
that
they
deal
with
before
it
comes
down
to
actual
the
local
government's.
A
A
We
will
discuss
how
we're
still
how
we
remain
competitive,
both
in
the
region
and
nationally,
and
we're
going
to
discuss
how
we
create
a
tax
structure
that
doesn't
grow
the
burden
on
individual
taxpayers,
but
hopefully
grows
the
overall
economy
in
a
way
that
our
local
governments
can
provide
the
services
necessary
at
this
time.
I
want
to
turn
it
over
to
the
folks
in
the
business
community
that
are
here
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
this
as
well
start
with
carter,
hendricks
out
of
christian
county.
Who
is
I'll.
Let
him
introduce
himself.
J
J
I
didn't
realize
on
national
kentucky
day
that
I
had
the
honor
of
driving
into
a
rising
sunset
in
kentucky
and
going
home
tonight
into
the
sunset
in
kentucky,
and
I
hope
you'll
agree
with
me
that
there's
not
a
better
day
that
you
can
live
than
to
rise
with
the
sun
and
go
to
bed
with
the
sun
in
the
great
commonwealth
of
kentucky.
Thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
be
a
part
of
today's
important
testimony
as
you
consider
this
critically
important
work
on
tax
reform.
J
As
a
former
mayor
of
hopkinsville,
I
realized
the
difficult
discussions
that
center
around
taxes
and
how
sometimes
impossible
these
conversations
may
feel.
I
thank
you
for
being
courageous
enough
to
discuss
this
issue
in
earnest
and
with
an
honest
desire
to
help
move
our
commonwealth
forward
in
a
more
competitive
posture
towards
population
and
economic
growth
for
nearly
20
years.
J
50
years
later,
hopkinsville
hovers
around
32
000,
while
clarksville
has
grown
to
over
160
000
in
a
county.
That's
well
over
200
thousand
from
1980
to
2020
tennessee
has
more
than
doubled,
kentucky's
population
growth
as
a
state.
During
that
same
time,
tennessee's
growth
rate
is
47
percent
compared
to
kentucky's
20
percent.
Meanwhile,
just
to
the
north
of
us,
the
state
of
indiana
has
beat
us
too
at
24.
J
It's
also
important
to
recognize-
and
I
hear
this
often,
that
the
city
of
hopkinsville
finds
itself
competing
against
the
city
of
clarksville,
we're
not
competing
against
the
city
of
clarksville
in
my
region,
in
fact,
we're
one
large
labor
shed
in
one
large
economy.
Clarksville
is
really
competing
against
the
larger
cities
in
kentucky.
If
it
were
in
kentucky,
it
would
be
the
third
largest
city
and
to
our
good
friends
down
in
louisville
lexington,
it's
gaining
fast,
just
as
nashville
is
across
the
nation,
so
we're
not
competing
against
clarksville
clarksville.
J
I've
also
recognized
that
nearly
every
major
economic
development
association,
including
the
international
economic
development
council,
recognizes
the
critical
importance
of
communities
being
able
to
create
the
quality
of
life
and
workforce
and
infrastructure
necessary
to
support
population
and
economic
growth.
In
other
words,
it's
critical
that
local
governments
have
the
tools
and
resources
necessary
to
invest
themselves
in
ways
that
people
want
to
live,
work
and
visit.
It's
really
that
simple.
It's
not
enough
to
provide
cheap,
labor
and
cheap
land.
Now
we
have
to
have
developed
land,
skilled,
labor
and
outstanding
quality
of
life.
J
These
are
the
issues
and
challenges
that
cities
are
facing
across
the
commonwealth
and
with
additional
acute
challenges,
related
income
tax
for
the
cities
and
counties
that
are
close
to
the
tennessee
border.
The
good
news
is
that
I
believe
we
have
a
great
opportunity,
as
you
consider
reforming
our
system,
which
will
lead
to
a
positive
and
lasting
impact.
J
A
And
we
also
have
with
us
two
young,
ladies
from
the
largest
chambers,
local
chambers
in
the
commonwealth,
miss
andy
johnson
with
commerce
lexington
and
miss
shelby,
william
somerville,
with
greater
louisville
incorporated
andy
will
let
you
take
it
away
at
this
point.
F
N
N
N
But
some
of
the
initial
data
that
we've
looked
at
with
local
leaders
has
really
validated
some
of
the
things
that
have
already
been
said
today
and
what
we're
already
feeling
and
have
thought
for
a
long
time.
The
lexington
region,
the
nine
county
region,
continues
to
be
at
a
competitive
disadvantage
when
it
comes
to
our
local
and
our
state
taxation
policies.
When
you
compare
us
to
other
states,
our
lack
of
flexibility
when
it
comes
to
local
taxing
policy
really
is
an
impediment
to
competing
with
those
cities
for
jobs
and
people.
N
Kentucky's
constitution
does
impose
a
lack
of
flexibility
in
establishing
tax
policies
at
the
local
level.
These
limitations
keep
our
diverse
local
communities
from
addressing
their
unique
economic
and
revenue
needs,
for
instance,
commerce,
lexington
we're
here
today,
not
just
representing
lexington,
but
we're
also
here
to
advocate
for
communities
throughout
our
region,
such
as
georgetown,
richmond
and
others.
That
really
do
have
different
challenges,
different
tax
bases
and
may
be
better
served
by
different
local
tax
structures.
N
N
The
business
community
looks
forward
to
continuing
to
provide
input
to
the
general
assembly
on
what
tax
policies
can
help
improve
our
local
economies,
but
a
crucial
next
step
to
comprehensive
tax
modernization
is
removing
the
constitutional
constraints
that
prohibit
local
governments
from
working
more
collaboratively
with
state
government
and
the
business
community
to
respond
to
a
rapidly
changing
economy.
Thank
you.
B
Hi
everyone,
my
name,
is
shelby
somerville,
I'm
the
vp
of
government
affairs
and
communications
at
greater
louisville
inc.
I'll
be
brief.
I
know
you've
heard
from
a
few
of
us
today:
gli
represents
over
1800
businesses
in
the
greater
louisville
region.
We've
been
supportive
of
this
initiative
for
several
years
and
want
to
thank
you,
rep
meredith,
for
your
continued
leadership
on
this
critical
issue.
B
As
jim
and
meredith
mentioned,
I
feel
like
we're,
always
in
these
conversations
of
how
can
we
make
kentucky
more
competitive?
How
can
we
make
kentucky
thrive,
and
I
think
this
local
option
sales
tax
and
this
local
change
is
a
key
in
that,
and
until
we
take
this
first
step
and
pass
this
constitutional
amendment,
we're
really
going
to
be
stuck
in
the
same
place.
We
are
now
just
having
these
conversations
on.
B
So
we
urge
the
general
assembly
to
take
this
first
step
in
giving
cities
and
counties
the
ability
to
thrive
in
today's
economy,
and
the
business
community
stands
ready
to
support
this
next
session
and
in
the
sessions
to
come,
as
we
have
that
robust
discussion
on
what
that
might
look
like.
Thank
you
for
your
time
today.
A
And
representative
fleming,
I
know
you
have
been
very
engaged
in
your
time
in
the
general
assembly
in
tax
reform
at
the
state
level,
and
we
can't
isolate
this
effort
from
our
efforts
at
the
state
level.
Either.
We've
made
the
first
step
a
commendable
first
step,
as
you
said
a
couple
of
years
ago,
with
regard
to
our
state's
tax
policy.
A
We
need
to
take
that
further,
but
we
also
know
that
this
portion,
the
local
government
portion,
is
an
integral
part
of
what
we
do
moving
forward
as
far
as
making
us
competitive,
and
we
can't
wait
on
this
any
longer.
I
don't
think
because
of
the
process
that
it
takes
of
passing
the
amendment
passing
a
framework
in
the
legislature
once
we
can
actually
have
that
meaningful
discussion
and
then
getting
it
down
to
where
it
can
be
implemented
at
the
local
level.
A
As
far
as
how
we
implement
taxes
at
both
the
state
and
the
local
level
to
attract
not
just
the
best
companies
to
come
here,
but
the
best
and
brightest
talent
to
come
and
live
here
as
well,
I
will
say
one
thing
and
you
wonder
maybe,
during
a
pandemic,
this
effort
was
clearly
started
before
the
pandemic.
While
we
would
still
be
talking
about
this,
but
the
bright
spots
during
the
pandemic
in
our
state
tax
structure
have
been
some
of
the
the
forethought
that
we
had
prior
to
this.
A
I
will
say
the
amendment
will
be
substantially
similar
to
the
amendment
that
has
been
before
you
in
the
past.
We
got
the
first
draft
back
yesterday
actually,
and
it
was
a
same
as
draft.
We
do
have
a
couple
of
concerns
that
have
been
asked
of
us
just
to
clarify
that
things
will
be
taxed
the
same
way
at
the
state
level
as
they
are
at
the
local
level.
So
you
won't
have
categories
of
things
taxed
differently
in
local
municipalities
or
counties
than
they
would
at
the
state
level.
A
Just
to
keep
the
confusion
down,
we
have
all
agreed
throughout
this
effort
to
make
sure
that
whatever
we
does
com
whatever
we
do
complies
with
the
streamlined
sales
tax
agreement.
To
make
sure
that
we
protect
that
revenue
at
the
state
level
as
well
and
and
one
of
the
other
things
going
along
with
streamline
that,
I
think
we
should
bring
up
is-
and
this
is
a
hard
sale
and
has
been
a
hard
sale
from
the
beginning
for
both
kco
and
klc.
F
Thank
you
represent
meredith
and
y'all
made
some
very
valid
points
there
and
our
guests.
Thank
you
as
well.
We
have
two
very
short
questions
here
and
we're
running
short
on
time.
Senator
wheeler
thank.
I
You,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
representative
meredith.
You
know
I'm
kind
of
undecided
on
this.
For
a
couple
of
reasons
I
mean
I,
I
could
see
the
benefit
of
consumption
based
taxes,
but
there
also
is
a
potential
harm
to
some
of
the
folks
that
are
living
towards
the
margins
of
our
society,
those
that
are
retired,
those
that
depend
on
a
you,
know:
safety,
net
programs
and
an
income
coming
in
on
a
fixed
income.
I
To
what
extent
would
you
propose
on
any
amendment
to
protect
some
of
the
exemptions
we
have
like
on
food,
because
I
know
like
tennessee
does
tax,
I
think
food
at
either
five
and
a
half
or
six
percent,
and
you
know
I'm.
I
I'm
a
little
hesitant
to
start
imposing
that
on
somebody,
that's
maybe
drawing
a
social
security
check
of
a
thousand
dollars
a
month.
It
may
not
seem
like
a
lot
of
money,
but
you
know
for
somebody
that
doesn't
have
a
lot
to
live
on.
It
could
be.
A
A
Tennessee
is
not
a
streamlined
sales
tax
state,
they
are
an
associate
member,
and
that
is
one
of
the
reasons:
the
fact
that
they
tax
groceries
at
the
local
they
tax
groceries
at
both
the
state
and
local
level,
but
it's
at
a
lower
rate
than
what
they
tax
everything
else,
and
so
we
could
not
do
that
under
our
system
and
be
in
compliance
stay
in
compliance
with
the
streamlined
sales
tax.
That
kentucky
has
been
a
part
of.
A
So
if
that
issue
were
to
change,
it
would
have
to
be
a
state
change
by
the
general
assembly,
not
something
done
in
compliance
with
this
amendment
or
at
the
local
level.
The
other
thing
that
I
would
mention,
because
this
did
this
question-
did
come
up.
When
we
were
on
the
floor
debating
this
in
2019
2020,
I
guess
it
was
now
the
the
regressive
nature
of
a
consumption-based
tax
and
my
my
argument
to
that
was.
If
you
look
at
how
our
occupational
license
fees
are,
our
payroll
deductions
are
implemented
at
the
state
level.
A
That
burden
is
somewhat
of
a
regressive
option
as
well
with
regard
to
wage
earners,
because
those
are
in
those
those
taxes
are
implemented
in
almost
every
scenario
across
the
state
as
a
flat
percentage
base.
There's
no
tiering
of
that
or
no
no
differences
in
the
rates,
and
so,
if
you
make
that
argument,
then
you're
talking
about
the
same.
That
would
not
apply
in
the
scenario
that
you
mentioned
with
regard
to
social
security
benefits
and
things
of
that
nature.
I
And
you
make
a
point
and
I
I
would
agree
with
you,
of
course
you
also
make
the
point
that
those
people
are
able
to
get
out
and
work
and
and
essentially
sustain
themselves,
whereas
people
are
retired
it.
You
know
that
that
time
has
passed
in
many
cases
which
makes
it
a
you
know,
a
greater
burden
for
them,
with
less
options,
and
and-
and
that
is
a
point
of
concern
for
me,
but
I
appreciate
the
answer
and
I
think
that
did
explain
a
lot.
So
thank
you.
F
So
we
have
two
more
questions:
senator
representative
koenig
well
thank.
D
You,
mr
chairman,
and
I'm
just
actually
going
to
make
a
few
comments.
If
I
could,
I
want
to
thank
chairman
meredith
for
bringing
this
back
it's.
I
know
you
worked
very
hard
on
it
two
years
ago
and
it's
good
policy.
D
L
D
D
F
D
Doing
this
you
know
you
talk
about
regressive
taxes,
property
taxes
are
aggressive.
We
have
difficulty
collecting
those
in
many
places
in
the
state.
There's
no
there's
no,
not
collecting
a
sales
tax
at
the
point
of
of
sale,
so
I
think
that
that
provides
a
lot
of
better
options
for
for
local
governments
going
forward.
So
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
O
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
who
has
researched
the
history
of
the
constitution
to
determine
what
they
were
thinking
in
1891,
because
I've
not
heard
anybody
reference
that
yet
we're
just
talking
about
how
we
see
it
today,
but
they
obviously
had
a
reason.
I'm
wondering
if
that's
a
still
relevant
reason.
A
A
O
O
O
I
appreciate
the
conversation
here
and-
and
you
guys
are
really
good
because
makes
me
actually
want
to
consider
this
as
an
option,
but
my
issue
is
adding
a
taxable
option:
it's
like
removing
the
debt
ceiling.
You
know
if
we
just,
we
don't
have
a
tax
ceiling
on
well,
let's
just
add
another
type
tax,
I'm
all
for
diversification,
the
portfolio
I
actually
have
concerns
about
reducing
our
portfolio
to
a
single
type
tax,
not
a
fan
of
tennessee
sales
tax
drives
me
nuts.
O
When
I
go
down
there,
seven
point:
seven
five
percent
on
your
groceries
receipt,
but
I
understand
that
people
who
live
there
don't
have
income
and
I'm
entirely
don't
like
all
the
income
tax
that
we
rely
on
in
the
state.
So
I
would
like
to
find
out
number
one
where
other
states
that
have
are
with
us
on
this
right
now,
which
states
we
need
to
get
that
list
and
then
the
other
thing
is.
Is
there
a
way
to
have
conversations?
O
I
know,
we've
all
talked
till
we're
blue
in
the
face
that
we
need
to
do
something.
But
let's
say
we
do
this
now
who's
the
blue
ribbon
committee
working
next
year
on
now.
What
do
we
want
to
do,
and
are
we
not
having
that
conversation
already
and
have
we
not
been
having
it
because
a
couple
of
years
ago
reference
has
been
made,
the
governor
said:
I've
got
this
10-year
plan
and
I
want
to
go
to
consumption-based
tax
and
I'm
scratching
my
head,
trying
to
figure
out
well
he's
only
got
two
years
left
of
his
term.
O
So
how
are
we
going
to
get
that
done
and
some
of
those
things?
I
wasn't
entirely
happy
with
we're
raising
400
a
million
dollars
on
a
so-called
tax
decrease
that
ends
up
going
up
for
the
lower
wage
people.
But
what
exactly
are
we
doing
with
the
whole
scope?
Because
we
really
can't
talk
about
this?
One
amendment
until
we
address
all
of
tax
reform
and
I'm
not
entirely
convinced
that
here's
where
it's
at
it
might
be
where
it's
at
for
a
city.
But
it's
not
where
it's
at
as
a
public
policy-making
body.
A
Doesn't
mean
anything
and
that's
why
we
thought
doing
the
constitutional
amendment
to
allow
the
flexibility
for
then,
the
general
assembly
to
set
tax
policy
was
the
smart
way
to
go
down
that
path.
There
have
been
some
brief
discussions
with
business
community
folks
with
other
legislators
with
city
and
county
folks
back
and
forth
about
the
different
things
about
what
we
might
look
towards
in
a
framework,
but
those
are
very,
very
early
and
very
brief
conversations,
because
the
the
conversation
is
really
not
warranted.
A
If
we
can't
do
anything
and
we're
just
talking
to
be
talking
and
debating
to
be
debating.
With
regard
to
your
your
your
discussion
about
an
add-on
tax
or
things
of
that
nature,
nothing
in
the
constitution,
caps,
the
rates
that
a
city
or
county
could
charge
on
the
on
the
options
that
are
available
to
them.
A
I've
also
heard
the
the
argument
over
that
time
period
that
we've
worked
on
this.
Well,
why
don't
you
remove
one
of
the
other
forms?
That's
out
there.
Well,
the
problem
with
that
is
it's
much
like
state
tax
reform,
where
we
have
had
to
tier
the
efforts
and
lower
something
over
time
raise
something
else
over
time
or
broaden
the
base
over
time.
A
While
we
lower
something,
you
can't
just
strip
out
revenue
and
get
rid
of
it
without
being
able
to
replace
at
the
same
time
in
a
tiering
way,
because
then
you
can't
fund
the
government
and
the
things
that
are
already
on
the
table.
That
have
to
be
done,
and
so
I
think
that,
probably,
as
we
discussed
this,
there
could
be
discussions
about
caps
floors
triggers
if
you
raise
so
much
revenue
from
a
new
source
and
lowering
another
source
commiserately
with
that
to
get
in
the
move
in
the
right
direction
and
moving
the
growth
scenario.
O
A
That's
hard
to
say,
because
it
depends
on
how
much
the
general
assembly
decides
to
do
on
state
tax
reform,
how
far
we
decided
to
go
at
that
point.
The
other
thing
you
did
mention-
and
I
didn't
answer
senator
southworth
was
the
other
states
and
where
they
stand,
I
can
provide
you
with
reports.
National
reports
on
those
that
are
in
this,
this
binder,
as
well
with
regard
to
what
rates
are
in
other
states
which
states
have
which
states
don't
have
and
all
that
fairly
easily.
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
for
your
consideration.
Thank
you
all
very
much
and
representative
meredith.
I
have
the
utmost
respect
and
and
you're
very
you're,
very
articulate
and
very
thoughtful,
and
I've
always
had
utmost
admiration
what
you
go
through,
what
you
do,
and
you
are
a
good
leader
not
only
for
state
but
also
for
the
for
the
county.
I
want
to
ask
you,
I
guess
a
point,
question,
a
point
of
question.
K
A
I
think
we
could
have
some
broad-based
discussions
and
take
input
from
stakeholders,
whether
those
be
legislators,
whether
they
be
the
business
community,
whether
they
be
whoever
but
to
actually
make
a
change,
any
kind
of
a
transformational,
any
kind
of
a
a
a
change
that
actually
makes
a
real
difference
at
the
local
level.
Now
can
we
make
changes
at
the
state
level?
Absolutely
we
have
the
latitude
to
do
that
as
the
general
assembly.
A
The
constitution
does
not
bar
us
or
prohibit
us
from
having
those
discussions
on
state
policy
state
tax
policy,
but
without
having
the
constitutional
change
we
can
take
as
much
input
as
we
want
to.
We
can
make
notes.
We
can
rough
out
things
but
to
actually
make
a
real
change.
There
is
no
real
potential
other
than
chipping
around
at
the
edges
on
some
of
these
small
things
that
you
hear
about
whether
it
be
road
funding,
whether
it
be
restaurant
taxes
or
things
of
that
nature,
to
actually
have
a
real
change.
The
constitutional
change
has
to
come.
F
You
appreciate
it
very
good.
Well,
thank
you
to
all
of
our
guests
that
testified.
Today.
We
had
a
very
good
hearing,
long
hearing
and
if
there
is
not
any
other
things
to
be
brought
forward,
our
next
meeting
will
be
november
22nd.
So
is
there
a
motion
to
adjourn.