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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Judiciary (8-18-22)
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A
Good
afternoon,
everyone
or
good
morning,
I
guess
it
still
is
we'll
go
through
the
noon
hour.
While
we're
here
welcome
to
our
third
meeting
of
the
interim
joint
committee
on
judiciary
and
as
I
always
tell
people
at
the
beginning
of
the
meeting,
please
put
your
phones
on
silent.
If
you
can
part
of
the
issue,
is
it
interferes
with
the
microphones
and
the
equipment?
A
And
that's
why
we
ask
you
to
do
that.
We
do
have
a
full
agenda
today.
We
actually
modified
the
agenda
moved
one
matter
to
november,
because
this
is
going
to
be
a
full
agenda.
A
We
have
two
matters
on
today
and
I'm
going
to
address
those
and
then
I'm
going
to
do
an
introduction
and
we'll
get
started.
So
first
of
all,
today
we're
gonna
have
organized
retail
theft
and
I'm
gonna
ask
shannon
stiglitz
with
her
guest
to
go
ahead
and
make
their
self
present
at
the
table
and
then,
after
that,
immediately
following
we're
going
to
have
security
and
civil
unrest,
and
I
want
to
point
out
today
that
we
have
a
special
guest
today,
chief
martin
brock,
from
the
north
carolina
general
assembly
police
department.
A
Martin.
Thank
you
for
being
here
and
he's
going
to
talk
to
you
about
some
things
that
we've
discussed
over
the
last
couple
of
years.
I
got
to
know
him
through
an
offshoot
of
ncsl
through
nlssa,
we'll
talk
about
that
today
and
we're
actually
heading
to
the
conference
next
week.
So
I
will
talk
to
you
a
little
bit
about
that
with
that
I
do
have
a
guest
that
I
will
introduce
and
then
I'll
ask
the
members.
If
they
have
any
guests
introduced,
then
we'll
call
the
roll.
A
So
with
me
today,
I
have
bella
brooks
who's
in
the
front
row
here.
Bella
is
a
student
at
lexington
catholic
for
those
of
you
that
golf
in
this
room
she's
one
of
the
top
golfers
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky,
and
she
is
in
the
process
of
starting
her
application
process
to
get
some
scholarships
around
the
country
and
she's.
Also
a
great
student
and
she's
going
to
be
shadowing
me
today
in
an
intern
type,
page
role
and
so
welcome.
A
C
D
F
G
A
Here,
thank
you.
I
do
want
to
recognize
one
of
our
baby
members,
our
newest
member,
born
into
this
committee
and
with
us
today
we
have
representative
patrick
flannery,
who
has
now
been
named
to
this
committee.
He
says
he's
going
to
cause
trouble
today,
so
I
would
ask
all
of
you
all
to
keep
him
under
control,
especially
over
there
to
my
left,
so
I'll,
sick,
representative
hevron
on
you.
A
If
you,
if
you
cause
any
problems
there,
representative
flannery,
okay,
I
know
you
did
all
right,
so
we're
going
to
start
today
with
something
we've
talked
about
for
the
last
couple
of
years.
First
of
all,
though,
I'm
going
to
approve
the
minutes,
so
do
we
have
a?
We
have
a
motion.
We
have
a
second
second,
all
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
aye,
those
opposed
none.
A
So
we
have
approval
of
the
minutes,
we're
going
to
move
right
on
into
organized
retail
theft,
and
this
actually
came
up
two
years
ago
when
we
were
talking
about
the
felony
threshold
bill.
So
one
of
the
concerns
that
was
raised
during
that
time
and
some
of
the
people
in
this
room
were
very
involved
in
that
bill
was
the
concern
that
if
we
raise
the
threshold
that
might
cause
more
people
to
go
out
and
commit
crimes,
especially
shoplifting
those
kinds
of
things
that
would
violate
our
our
standards
and
violate
our
laws.
A
But
there
would
not
be
enough
penalty
to
go
with
it.
Now
we
discussed
all
that
through
the
felony
threshold
bill,
but
we
also
discussed
organized
retail
theft,
because
what
was
new
to
me,
even
though
I
work
in
the
criminal
justice
system,
is
that
there
are
groups
that
are
actually
paying
people
to
go
out
and
commit
these
offenses
to
bring
them
back
the
items,
so
they
can
sell
them
on
ebay
or
social
media
or
some
other
routes.
A
So
we're
talking
today
about
what
we
might
be
able
to
do
about
organized
retail
theft,
and
I
know
we
have
rico
laws,
but
the
same
time.
We
might
need
to
look
at
this
for
purposes
of
future
legislation.
So
with
that,
I'm
going
to
turn
the
floor
over
to
shannon
stiglitz
who's.
The
senior
vice
president
of
government
affairs
for
the
kentucky
retail
federation
shannon
and
you
may
recognize
your
guest.
H
Thank
you
very
much
chairman
massey
and
committee
members
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
with
you
today.
I
will
let
introduce
my
guest
with
me:
is
nicole
toyloi
from
walgreens
asset
protection
and
matt
ross.
He
is
the
director
of
organized
retail
crime
with
kroger.
H
So
we
are
grateful
for
the
opportunity
today
to
talk
about
this
issue,
and
I
think
you
will
find
it
interesting
that
we're
not
talking
about
your
shoplifter
who
may
be
feeding
a
habit
necessarily
or
or
one-time
offenders.
We
are
really
talking
about
criminal
rings
and
so
we'll
go
into
that
in
a
little
bit
detail.
H
Just
to
give
you
a
little
bit
about
what
retail's
impact
on
kentucky
is.
I
always
like
to
provide
this
slide
to
you.
You
know
we
are
a
the
largest
employer
of
kentuckians
and
not
just
that.
We
we
do
see
ourselves
as
community
members.
H
Our
retailers
have
deep
ties
with
their
communities,
whether
they're,
small
or
large,
and
they,
whether
that's
because
of
their
employees
or
their
customers,
and
so
we
are
proud
to
be
operating
in
kentucky
and
proud
of
what
we
provide
to
the
commonwealth.
H
So
what
is
it
when
we're
talking
about
organized
retail
crime
or
organized
retail
theft?
Just
to
give
you
an
a
definition
from
the
fbi,
what
it
is
is
ort
by
retail
lost
professionals
can
generally
be
described
as
professional
burglars,
boosters
cons,
thieves,
fences
and
resellers,
conspiring
to
steal
and
sell
retail
merchandise
obtained
from
retail
assets
establishments
by
theft
or
deception.
H
These
are
a
few
of
examples.
You
may
have
all
seen
the
videos
commonly
referred
to
as
smash
and
grabs
and
we'll
get
into
the
severity
of
these
events
a
little
bit
and
that
will
come
up
again,
but
here's
a
few
examples:
five
charged
in
bellevue
washington
with
theft
over
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
a
homeland
security
identifies
a
70
billion
loss
annually
because
of
organized
retail
theft
and
then
in
michigan
a
70
year
old
woman
was
hiring
heroin
addicts
and
she
was
found
arrested
for
organizing
one
of
these
theft
rings.
H
H
You
if
you
go
to
a
pond
shop
in
kentucky,
you
have
to
provide
your
government
id
information
like
that.
We
passed
that
statute
several
years
ago.
We
now
know
the
criminals
are
going
to
marketplaces
what
you
think
of,
as,
as
the
chairman
said,
ebay
offer
up,
let
go
alibaba,
there's
a
whole
host
of
them.
Facebook
marketplace
all
of
them.
H
There
are
several
that
do
it
the
right
way
and
provide
parallel
information
like
pawn
shops
are
required
to
do,
but
because
they
can
easily
sell
products
they
they
don't
have
to
provide
an
actual
image
of
the
product.
They're
selling
oftentimes
stock
photos
are
used
on
a
marketplace
website,
and
so
it
looks
like
a
box
of
huggies
diapers
that
you
would
see
on
a
walgreens
or
kroger
shelf,
but
when
you
get
the
product
it
could
be
damaged
or
harm,
and
this
can
be
a
public
health
safety
issue.
H
If
you
think
about
things
that
you
consume
prescription
drugs,
over-the-counter
prescription,
drugs,
baby
formula,
things
like
that,
the
other
thing
that
it
is
pointed
to
in
chairman
references
is-
is
the
increase
in
felony
theft
thresholds.
Not
because
I
I
think
that,
and
what
the
argument
is
is
that
it
has
allowed
organized
criminal
organizations
to
take
advantage
of
folks
that
may
have
a
drug
habit
they're
trying
to
feed
or
in
one
instance.
H
Sometimes
they
pay
off
coyotes
or
those
who
are,
you
know
bringing
them
into
the
country
illegally,
those
fees
that
they
hire
people
to
get
them
across
the
border.
They
will
force
them
to
steal,
to
pay
off
that
or
in
human
trafficking
instances
they
brought
into
this
country
and
they
are
forced
to
pay
off
their
debt
through
by
boosting
or
stealing.
H
So
this
chart
on
the
left,
what
this
shows
you
is
that
there
really
has
been
a
direct
correlation
with
the
increase
in
online
shopping
and
the
increase
in
organized
retail
theft
and
they're.
Just
this
is
a
few
of
the
statistics
about
what
theft
costs
kentuckians.
H
So
you
can
imagine
that
each
kentuckian
is
paying
about
dollars
annually
more
a
year
in
the
products
they
buy.
Because
of
that
I
want
to
be
clear.
Theft
is
not
just
shoplifting.
H
H
It's
also
not
a
victimless
crime.
I
think
it's
important
to
understand
that
we
often
talk
about
shoplifting
as
being
a
victimless
crime,
but,
as
these
events
become
more
violent
in
nature,
they
are
dangerous
for
employees.
They
are
dangerous
for
customers,
and
so
we
want
to
be
clear
that
it's
not
a
victimless
crime.
It
is
also
harmful
to
the
consumer
in
two
ways:
one
it
increases
prices
and
two.
It
also
can
be
a
public
health
and
safety
issue.
H
Here
is
a
quote
from
corey
berry
who
she
is
the
ceo
of
best
buy,
and
she
says
that
that,
even
though
they've
added
security
measures,
the
shoplifting
is
traumatizing
for
our
associates
is
unacceptable,
we're
doing
everything
we
can
to
create
as
safe
an
environment
as
possible
and
they're
implementing
a
number
of
tactics.
H
In
fact,
I
was
at
the
best
buy
headquarters
just
this
week
and
they
said
well:
we've
solidified
the
front
doors,
but
now
they're
coming
through
the
ceiling,
and
they
were
grateful
for
that,
because
that
meant
that
no
one
was
in
the
store
when
the
theft
was
happening.
Now,
they're
concerned
that
okay,
we've
solidified
the
front.
What?
If
they?
If
we
find
a
way
to
protect
the
ceiling
and
them
coming
in
the
building,
that
way,
then
do
they
just
come
in
with
guns
and
other
violent
acts
to
get
the
products.
H
It's
critical
that
I'm
going
to
show
you
an
example
of
this
is
what
we're
talking
about
so
at
the
center
is
an
organized
retail
group
and
you're
talking
about
them
being
connected
to
human
trafficking,
terrorism,
drug
trafficking,
transnational
crimes,
particularly
in
the
case
of
counterfeit
items,
gang
and
violent
crimes
and
those
types
of
things.
H
So
how
does
this
work?
You
have
the
head
of
an
organization
and
they
are
hiring
boosters.
It
goes
through
either
a
fencing
operation
at
one
level,
or
it
goes
through
a
wholesaler
and
distributor
and
sometimes
can
go
back
to
retailers
and
appear
as
legitimate
products
oftentimes.
It
goes
on
to
online
marketplaces
where
they
can
operate
anonymously.
H
These
are
the
top
retailers
types
of
retailers
targeted
by
these
groups.
Of
course,
over-the-counter
medications
and
things
in
a
pharmacy
are
costly
items.
H
H
It
is
in
2019.
This
was
a
68.9
billion
dollars
worth
of
products
were
stolen
from
retailers.
It's
about
1.5
of
sales
across
the
country
and
retailers
faced
increased
costs,
not
just
because
of
actually
the
product
going
missing,
but
the
technology
they
have
to
employ
to
prevent
theft,
the
labor
cost
associated
with
it.
We
had
one
member
provide
us.
They
are
hiring
officers
off-duty
officers
in
louisville,
it's
about
75
an
hour
going
up
to
about
a
hundred
dollars
an
hour,
particularly
if
a
store
has
multiple
incidents.
H
It's
harder
to
get
off-duty
law
enforcement
employed
there
and
then
again
the
safety
issues.
H
One
example
is
in
florida
a
retail
theft
ring
targeted
all
to
beauty
stores
and
they
would
pepper
spray
employees
a
lot
of
times.
If
you
see
at
a
home
improvement,
store,
they'll
load
up
a
cart
and
it'll
be
heavy
down
with
a
big
equipment
or
tools.
You
know
power
tools
and
things
like
that
and
they
will
just
mow
down.
Whoever
is
in
front
of
them
consumer
employee,
it
doesn't
matter,
you've,
probably
seen
the
jewelry
store,
thefts
or
the
luxury
store
theft.
H
H
You
can
see
that
this
impacts
multiple
sectors
across
its
economy,
but
it
impacts
state
and
local
tax
dollars
as
well
to
the
tune
of
54
million
dollars.
So
I
think
it's
important
to
note
that
its
reach
and
impact
is
far
wider
than
just
retail.
H
This
is
what
I
was
talking
about.
This
is
an
example
of
what,
if
you
look
at
theft
by
sort
of
severity,
it's
you
know,
retail
theft
for
personal
use.
You
go
up
to
the
smash
and
grabs
which
are
a
lot
sometimes
gang
activity,
and
then
you
get
up
to
these
national
organized
trans,
national
criminals
that
provide,
and
they
are
stealing
products
like
medicines,
razor
blades,
health
and
beauty,
aids.
I
know
lotions
and
things
are
very
commonly
stolen.
H
So
what
is
a
potential
solution?
There
are
11
states
that
have
passed.
What's
called
the
inform
act,
the
integrity
notification
and
fairness
and
online
retail
marketplaces
for
consumers
act.
It
would
require
online
marketplaces
to
require
high
volume
sellers
to
provide
information
to
the
marketplace
and
consumers
and
requires
the
marketplace
to
verify
this
information.
H
This
is
critical
because,
while
you
may
be
able
to
catch
a
ring,
what
happens
is
law
enforcement
does
not
have
a
way
to
find
that
information
or
verify
it
and
oftentimes
the
criminal
will
have
a
storefront
and
then
they
feel
like.
Maybe
something
is
happening.
They'll
shut
it
down
quickly
and
they've
already
started
another
one,
and
it's
just
nothing
but
dead
ends
for
loss
prevention,
folks
and
for
the
law
enforcement
folks,
and
then
they
would
have
to
provide
a
government
id
a
tax
id
bank
account
information
and
contact
information
and
high
volume.
H
Sellers
are
those
that
meet
a
certain
threshold
of
sales,
200
transactions
in
12
months,
and
it
has
to
also
result
in
5,
000
or
more
in
aggregate
revenue.
So
what
that
means
is
we're
not
talking
about
the
mom
who
sells
her.
Babies
used
clothes
on
facebook
marketplace,
for
you
know
fifty
dollars
or
whatever,
or
someone
selling
a
piece
of
furniture.
H
H
It
provides
law
enforcement
with
a
better
way
to
track
stolen
goods,
and
it
removes
that
anonymity
of
sellers
making
it
less
less
attractive
for
criminals
to
use
these
platforms
and
by
verifying
that
this
information
is
correct.
It
it
cuts
down
on
those
fake
stores,
fronts
or
moving
a
storefront
to
a
different
name
or
anything
like
that
again.
Arkansas
was
the
first
state
to
pass
this,
and
I
just
did
a
quick
search
and
pretended
like.
I
was
a
seller.
H
Google
had
a
forum
right
away.
It
was
very
simple,
very
easy.
You
plopped
your
information
in
and
it
was
very
easy
to
comply
with.
These
are
the
states
that
have
passed
or
introduced
the
inform
act.
Ohio
is
one
of
the
most
recent
states
that
passed
it
michigan
illinois.
So
a
lot
of
our
folks
that
are
our
surrounding
states
are
looking
at
this
or
have
already
passed
it.
H
This
is
the
pawn
broker
statute
that
was
passed
a
couple
of
years
ago.
I
thought
this
was
good
reference
point
to
show
that
what
we're
really
talking
about
is
putting
brick
and
mortar
operations
that
where
people
sell
products
through
in
step
with
online
marketplaces,
it's
sort
of
a
parody
piece.
It's
how
we
view
it.
H
This
is
our
organized
retail
crimes
definition,
so
we
do
have
a
statute
that
provides
for
organized
retail
crime
and
what
it
means.
It's
two
or
more
persons
collaborating
engaging
in
criminal
acts,
reselling
stealing
the
item
and
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
nicole
and
matt.
Now
to
I
think
they
will
provide
you
a
good
lens
of
what
it's
like
on
the
ground
in
managing
these
issues.
B
Thank
you
for
having
me
my
name
is
nicole
toyloi,
I'm
the
regional
asset
protection
director
for
walgreens
for
tennessee
and
the
state
of
kentucky
part
of
my
responsibility.
I'm
sorry
should
I
start
over.
Okay.
Part
of
my
responsibility
is
to
oversee
some
of
the
investigations
in
regards
to
orc
in
kentucky.
In
the
last
years,
our
walgreens
kentucky
stores
have
suffered
12
million
dollars
in
product
losses,
52
percent,
worse
than
what
we
were
at
two
years
ago.
B
23
of
those
losses
are
attributed
to
orc
with
the
rise
of
orc
in
our
stores,
it's
become
a
significant
safety
and
security
concern
for
both
our
team
members
and
our
customers.
We've
had
in
the
last
12
months,
15,
robberies,
35,
threats
of
violence,
19,
violent
events,
and
that's
just
in
the
last
12
months
in
131
stores.
B
B
Several
of
these
products
are
either
ingested
or
absorbed
through
the
skin,
because
consumer
safety
is
such
a
concern
when
they,
when
they
steal
these
items,
they're
not
worried
about
expiration
dates,
they're,
not
worried
about
storage
concerns,
and
so
it
poses
a
significant
risk
to
the
to
the
public
health
of
our
consumers.
When
they're
resold
on
online
marketplaces
consumers,
we
we
hope
that
consumers
can
feel
confident
in
where
their
products
are
coming
from
that
they're
safe
and
that
they're
not
counterfeit.
So
we
believe
the
inform
act
would
help
us
in
achieving
that.
I
I
Prior
to
that,
I
have
a
law
enforcement
background
of
10
years,
where,
most
of
the
time
I
spent
as
a
police
detective,
I
was
to
be
honest,
oblivious
to
orc
back
then,
and
had
you
told
me
that
organized
crime
happened
in
a
grocery
store?
I
probably
would
have
laughed
at
you,
but
since
coming
over
to
retail
on
the
private
side,
my
eyes
have
been
opened.
I
I
had
no
idea
what
retail
was
up
against,
so
I've
seen
the
targets,
change
and
methods
over
the
past
11
years
since
I've
been
with
kroger,
the
products
are
still
in
in
demand
such
as
baby
formula,
our
meats
liquor,
a
plethora
of
different
otc
items.
I've
watched
that
that's
still
in
effect,
however,
changed
to
where
just
about
anything
under
our
roof
that
has
value
to
it,
is
being
targeted
by
organized
crime
groups.
I
For
instance,
the
plastics
that
we
put
our
produce
items
that
we
bring
from
our
warehouses
over
to
our
stores
is
targeted.
It's
stolen
from
our
stores.
It's
brought
to
recycling
plants
chopped
up
and
then
sent
overseas
to
make
new
products
in
which
some
retailers
may
be
purchasing
in
other
forms
or
fashions
to
include
also
things
like
our
oil
that
we
use
for
frying.
We
put
that
in
the
back
of
our
stores,
and
that
too
is
stolen
by
organized
retail
crime
groups.
I
We've
had
to
lock
those
up
spend
money
on
new
vats
that
had
different
lockable
capabilities
to
keep
them
out
of
it.
I've
seen
the
scams
change
from
the
late
night
phone
calls
from
overseas
scammers
that
target
our
employees
and
trick
them
into
loading
gift
cards.
By
saying
that,
it's
me
calling-
and
I
need
to
help
a
customer
out
quickly,
so
please
load
this
gift
card
up
for
them
or
the
store
manager
or
the
district
manager.
I
I've
seen
that
change
to
now
their
online
and
social
media,
targeting
our
employees
trying
to
gain
trust
with
them
so
that
they
can
eventually
take
advantage
of
them
and
talk
them
into
either
committing
in
collusion
with
them
or
just
making
some
kind
of
transaction
that
has
left
us
over
twenty
thousand
dollars
in
loss
in
one
single
night.
I
I've
also
seen
what
retail
has
done
to
help
themselves
so
kroger
we've
spent
millions
of
dollars,
enacting
all
types
of
different
security
measures
which
some
that
you
can
see
when
you
go
to
our
stores.
You'll
see
security
you'll
see
the
cameras.
Those
are
all
things
you
visually
see,
but
we've
we've
invested
in
state
of
our
the
art
technology.
That's
tied
to
our
camera
systems
that
looks
at
skip
scanning
at
our
registers.
I
We've
tied
that
state-of-the-art
technology
to
systems
that
lock
up
our
carts
if
they
don't
go
through
a
register
and
the
product's
not
purchased.
So
there's
been
lots
of
money
spent
to
try
to
address
organized
retail
crime
groups
out
there
and
to
keep
our
costs
lows
for
consumers.
I
Like
mr
stiglitz
said
earlier,
it's
not
a
victimless
crime
that
a
lot
of
people
see
it.
As
you
know,
law
enforcement
is
under
the
gun,
as
well.
They've
had
to
enact
different
protocols,
because
it's
so
bad
that
they've
had
to
in
some
jurisdictions,
with
the
lack
of
manpower
and
resources
they've
had
to
put
protocols
in
place
that
limit
how
much
money
that
they're
going
to
respond
to
our
stores.
For
so,
if
it's
a
hundred
dollars,
they
might
not
come
to
it
in
certain
jurisdictions.
I
The
felony
amounts.
I
know
that
some
of
those
have
increased
there,
but
I'm
thankful
that
there's
still
laws
that
have
been
put
in
place
that
put
these
that
target
the
orc
boosters
in
aggregate,
so
they
put
multiple
cases
together.
That's
been
very
beneficial
to
both
law
enforcement,
us
and
prosecutors.
I
So
we've
had
to
look
at
other
technologies
out
there
to
help
identify
them
from
different
means
and
then,
ultimately,
with
looking
at
it
as
victimless,
there
are
some
courts
that
have
not
always
enacted
the
penalties
that
were
set
set
for
these
crimes.
I
So
all
those
things
the
criminals
in
the
orc
element
have
utilized
to
their
advantage.
They
know
about
these
things,
these
different
opportunities.
They
know
it's
seen
as
petty.
I
They
stay
under
the
thresholds
when
they
come
to
our
store
to
keep
it
misdemeanors
the
jail
penalties,
sometimes
they're,
they're
in
and
out
of
jail,
so
quickly
and
right
back
into
our
stores,
doing
it
all
over
again,
but
really
it's
gotten
tremendous.
Since
all
these
things
organized
and
multiplied-
and
all
of
this
is
helped
help
them
the
orc
booster.
The
fence
begin
to
get
involved
in
different
things
that
such
as
drug
the
drug
trade,
when
search
warrants
are
conducted.
Drugs
are
often
found.
Guns
are
often
found.
I
These
are
all
elements
to
that
that
to
the
to
what
they
know,
as
you
know,
they're
operating
under
a
petty
theft,
so
they
use
that
to
their
advantage.
They
hire
boosters.
These
low-level
people
who
are
drug
addicts
homeless,
people
in
need,
they
hire
them
to
go
out
to
our
stores,
commit
these
acts
and
and
again
they're
right
back
in
and
out
of
jail
quickly.
I
So
I've
also
seen
what
was
pawn
shops
as
a
as
a
police
detective.
That
was
a
great
route.
It
had
great
oversight
to
it.
It's
often
where
the
criminals
went
to
to
to
pawn
their
items
and
get
their
money,
and-
and
so
we
worked
really
well
with
pawn
brokers
to
establish
laws
or
different
means
so
that
we
could
see
who
was
selling
the
products,
what
products
they
were
and
that
led
to
a
lot
of
convictions,
a
lot
of
arrests
and
and
kept
it
low.
I
There
was
good
oversight
to
it
and
now
what's
taken
place.
Is
the
online
marketplaces
there's
no
oversight?
It's
the
new
wild
wild
west
out
there
it's
much
more
profitable.
So
typically,
your
orc
boosters
would
bring
the
product
to
a
fencing
location
which
was
a
small
business.
Maybe
a
convenience
store
or
a
flea
market,
something
like
that
to
sell
and
they're
getting
pennies
on
the
dollar
for
it.
Now
now,
why
not
just
get
online
and
sell
it
for
just
about
retail
prices,
it's
a
lot
more
profitable
for
them.
I
So
you
got
your
booster
low
level,
as
ms
stiglitz
showed
in
her
powerpoint
how
that
sydney
it
can
be
and
how
complex
these
groups
can
be
and
how
many
different
criminal
aspects
they
include
but
stay
under
the
radar,
because
it's
looked
at
as
a
petty
theft.
I
A
Thank
you
very
much.
It
was
a
great
presentation.
I
will
tell
you
a
lot
of
members
of
this
committee.
Are
either
business
owners
or
law
enforcement
or
have
had
direct
involvement
with
some
of
these
types
of
things.
As
I
look
around
the
room,
so
we
do
have
some
questions
for
you
we'll
begin
with
senator
west.
F
This
question
is,
for
mrs
stiglitz
kentucky's
criminal
syndicate
statute.
What
are
the
current
penalties
for
that.
H
Oh,
that's
a
good
question
that
I
didn't
include
in
my
presentation.
I'm
not
I
don't
know.
If
I
remember
I
pulled
up
the
beer
suit.
Thank
you
say.
F
F
B
or
c
felony,
okay,
thank
you.
So
second
part
of
that
question
is:
do
you
feel
that
our
criminal
syndicate
statute
is
adequate
to
address
these.
H
Issues
what
we
we
have
been
trying
to
work
with
law
enforcement
groups
at
all
levels,
prosecutors
and
law
enforcement
directly.
We
we
are
trying
to
discover
if
they
can,
if
they're,
even
using
the
organized
retail
crime
statute.
Additionally,
are
they
using
the
aggregation
and
just
in
our
initial
meeting
with
commonwealth's
attorneys?
What
we
discovered
is
they
didn't
know
about
the
aggregation
statute
at
all
and
utilizing
the
organized
retail
crime
statute
was
was
something
that
seemed
like
did
not
occur
quite
often,
so
I
think
that's
the
education
piece
that
we
have
to
look
to.
H
I
think
that
we
can
discuss
if
you
think
that
I
mean
if
the
general
assembly
thinks
the
criminal
penalties
are
there.
One
thing
we
didn't
discuss
is
that
what
some
states
are
doing
is
within
their
attorney
general's
office,
they're,
forming
task
forces
that
would
be
made
up
of
law
enforcement
to
to
evaluate
and
target
these
cases
that
that
does
seem
to
be
another
piece
of
the
puzzle
that
is
effective,
but
that
that
has
a
cost
to
it.
F
Thank
you
and
if
I
could
have
just
one
follow-up,
please
finish
up
here,
so
that's
you're
getting
to
the
gist
of
it.
I
mean
if,
if
there's
only
so
much,
we
can
do
right,
correct.
You
know
if,
if
law
enforcement
and
is
not,
you
know,
enforcing
the
existing
law
and
prosecutors,
aren't
prosecuting
then
there's
not
a
lot
we
can
do
and
and
if
we
have
these
defund
the
police
type
type
movements
that
that
doesn't
help
either.
F
So
I
guess
this
question
final
question
would
be:
do
we
know
percentages
of
cases
that
are
actually
solved
and
percentages
of
prosecutions
on
these
cases
that
we
don't
have
that
information
at
all?
I
would
assume
it's
a
pretty
low
number.
H
That
is
correct
for
these
organized
retail
crime.
We
we
do
not
have
good
crime.
Statistics
have
discovered.
This
is
an
issue
across
the
country
for
determining
what
is
going
on
and
even
specifically
in
kentucky
to
see
how
it's
being
prosecuted,
but
that's
why
we
had
nicole
talk
about
her
experience
and
she
may
be
able
to
add
some
color
of
what
their
charges
and
getting
a
resolution
in
these
cases.
B
I
don't
I
don't,
have
any
really
good
statistics
about
arrests
and
prosecutions,
but
I
will
say
a
lot
of
these
offenders
when
they
are
caught
because
they're
low
level
they're
they're,
employing
as
matt
said,
drug
drug
users
and
homeless
people
to
commit
a
lot
of
these
acts.
A
lot
of
times.
We
find
that
they're
being
released
within
24-48
hours
and
they're
right
back
in
our
stores,
committing
the
same
issues.
So
we're
not
seeing
any
real
sentencing
around.
F
So
it
sounds
like
law
enforcement
and
prosecutors
aren't
following
it
up
the
chain.
You
know
they're,
not
tying
the
two
crimes
together,
they're
going
after
the
low
level
offender
with
little
to
no
repercussions
and
then
and
then
not
pros,
using
the
existing
criminal
syndicate
statute
to
to
go
after
the
high
level
offenders,
which
is
probably
based
a
time
issue.
You
know
how
time
and
resources
is
that
fair?
Is
that
what
you,
how
you
see
it?
Yes,.
H
H
They
have
to
be
able
to
prove
their
case
and
if
it
takes
six
months
for
an
online
marketplace
to
give
them
the
identity
of
a
seller.
That
they've
identified
is
one
of
these
rings.
Then
there's
no
way
they're
going
to
be
able
to
prove
a
case,
and
so
this
inform
act
is
a
mechanism
and
a
tool
for
law
enforcement,
retailers
and
the
consumer,
because
that
way
they
know
who
they're
buying
the
product
from
and
there's
a
responsibility.
H
A
Thank
you.
Well,
I
will
point
out
too
part
of
the
reason
we're
to
bring
this
is
that
there's
with
all
the
discussion
we've
had
in
the
last
three
or
four
years
about
criminal
justice
reform
reform
works
both
ways.
It
doesn't
just
mean
that
we're
trying
to
lessen
the
amount
of
people
that
are
incarcerated
and
trying
to
get
them
treatment.
A
A
I
guess
on
tv
that
the
criminals
know
that
in
those
situations
where
they're
not
coming
in
and
prosecuting,
if
it's
less
than
a
hundred
dollars
or
less
than
500,
they
know-
and
so
they
just
come
in
and
write
in
broad
daylight,
and
they
know
that
they're
not
going
to
have
you
know
authorities
come
to
them,
so
they
just
take
it
and
then
they
market
it.
So
you
know
that
that
could
be
coming
our
way
and
you
know.
Obviously,
we
see
a
lot
of
that
out
of
california
with
that
I'll
turn
to
senator
carroll.
J
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
the
presentation
and
in
with
law
enforcement.
It
is
something
that
that
they
do
follow
up
on,
but
it
is
very
difficult.
The
best
chance
for
law
enforcement
to
develop
a
case
like
this
is
when
you,
you
catch
a
suspect,
you
you
get
into
their
car
and
you
find
thefts
from
many
different
stores
over
many
different
days,
and-
and
so
that's
that's
the
initiation
of
that
in
our
part
of
the
state.
J
J
J
You
know
drug
addict
you're
not
going
to
go
to
jail,
you're
going
to
go
to
treatment,
it's
a
whole
cycle,
they're
out
doing
it
again,
and
this
happens
time
and
time
again,
so
what
you
all
are
presenting
to
us.
It's
not
going
to
get
any
better
until
we
change
our
philosophy
and
we
go
back
to
treating
criminals
as
criminals
and
and
holding
them
accountable
for
what
they
do.
J
It's
not
going
to
get
any
better,
and
you
know-
and
I
think
this
body
within
the
legislature,
I
think
we
are
going
to
have
to
rethink
at
some
point
the
direction
we're
headed
in,
because
I
think
we're
going
in
the
wrong
direction
in
many
ways
when
it
comes
to
this
and
we
all
pay
the
price
for
that.
We
look
at
it's
a
victim
as
less
crime.
We
look
at
it
that
the
perpetrator
is
a
drug
user.
J
B
I
don't,
but
most
of
our
stores
are
located
within
louisville
lexington,
so
most
of
that's
going
to
be
actually
coming
out
of
the
louisville
area.
B
K
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
do
have
a
couple
of
questions
I
was
I
wanted
to
address
senator
wise's
question.
First.
I
actually
did
some
research
on
this
during
the
meeting
and
about
the
engaging
and
organized
crime
statute,
and
I
looked
it
up
where
you
referenced
the
krs
506.12,
and
that
is
a
c
felony.
All
theft
statutes
are
included
in
that
statute
and
I
think
it's.
I
read
a
courier
journal,
article
from
hardin
county
in
2020,
where
five
people
from
illinois
were
engaging
in
organized
crime.
K
That
was
one
of
the
charges
that
they
actually
brought
the
organized
crime
charge
and
they
also
charged
receiving
ten
thousand
dollars
in
stolen
property
or
more
and
theft
unlawful,
taking
slash
shoplifting
between
five
hundred
and
ten
thousand
dollars
and
those
five
people.
It
was
alleged
that
they
were
engaging
in
an
interstate
crime
ring
from
illinois
to
georgia,
and
they
were
caught
here
in
kentucky
in
hardin
county.
K
They
were
charged
with
the
appropriate
offense,
including
the
new
organized
crime
law
and
were
sentenced
to
five
years
and
under
that
they
would
have
to
serve
85
percent
of
their
sentence,
and
I
thought
that
was
an
interesting
thing
that
I
read
while
looking
at
this
that
might
address
some
of
the
members
questions
about
how
well
prosecutors
know
about
this
or
charging
it
and
utilizing
it.
That
really
had
nothing
to
do
with
the
questions
that
I
raised
my
hand
to
ask,
but
I
thought
that
was
interesting.
K
K
Who
has
access
to
that
and
then
how
are
they
catching
people
like,
for
example,
is
law
enforcement
monitoring
those
transactions
is
the
online
marketplace,
monitoring
those
transactions
and
then
reporting
it
as
somehow
suspicious
to
law
enforcement,
and
then
they
might
initiate
an
investigation.
What
happens
after
this?
This
reporting
that's
required
under
the
inform
act.
H
It's
it's,
they
report
the
information
to
the
marketplace
and
the
marketplace
has
to
verify
it
and
then,
if
there
is
law
enforcement
looking
to
build
a
case,
a
retail
group
looking
for
to
build
a
case,
they
would
be
able
to
better
track
that
those
products
are
stolen.
H
There
is
a
law
firm
out
of
ohio
chairman
that
works
for
many
retailers,
and
they
will
do
sort
of
sample,
buys
of
things
to
see
if
they're
stolen
products,
if
you
think
about
walgreens,
has
branded
products
of
its
own
and
if
it's
going
on
to
a
marketplace,
that's
not
connected
with
it
or
not,
and
it's
their
product,
and
it's
in
bulk.
H
They
may
know
it's
stolen,
but
what
they
can't
do
is
is
there's
no.
It's
completely
anonymous
in
many
cases
to
sell
these
products,
and
so
this
gives
not
just
the
information
to
the
consumer,
but
it
makes
it
available
to
law
enforcement
and
the
marketplace
verifies
it,
and
mr
ross
team
might
want
to
talk
about
his
experience
in
working
with
some
of
the
marketplaces
and
some
of
the
systems.
I
Thank
you,
so
yeah
I've
actually
absolutely
worked
cases
where
we
have
had
very
good
online
marketplaces
that
do
collect
this
information
and
do
share
it
with
law
enforcement,
and
that
has
aided
in
their
investigations
and
lo
and
help
locate
the
fencing
location
where
the
allowed
police
departments
to
put
different
devices
on
vehicles
track
it
to
see
where
the
bigger
fish
is.
Where
the
where
the
big
syndicate
is.
So
it
starts
low
level
and
continues
to
go
higher,
but
it
all
starts
at
some
of
these
little
small
spots
that
are
selling
it
online.
I
So
the
ones
that
are
helpful
and
work
with
us
have
been
great
in
solving
big,
large-scale
orc
investigations.
K
Thank
you,
and
I
just
have
one
more
question
you
mentioned-
that
it
wouldn't
this
statute
would
not
apply
to
someone,
for
example,
who
wanted
to
sell,
or
you
know,
make
a
transfer
of
their
child's
toys
or
clothing
that
they
had
outgrown
or
something
like
that.
What
about
other
retailers
that
exist
online?
I
was
thinking
about
like
amazon
or
etsy.
That's
clearly
an
online
marketplace,
they're.
Clearly
gonna.
K
H
I
mean
if
they
were
a
brick
and
mortar
business,
they
would
go
to
the
secretary
of
state's
office
and
they
would
get
a
business
license.
They
would
have
a
tax
id.
They
would
do
all
of
the
things
that
we
that
the
inform
act
would
require
them
to
do
if
they
had
a
you
know
if
they
were
a
legitimate
business,
and
so
it
is
not
it's
it's
simply
providing
information
and
data.
H
And
yes,
there
will
be
some
small
businesses
that
will
have
more
than
200
transactions
and
5
000
in
revenue,
but
you're
talking
about
basic
information,
and
if
I
mean
I
think
two
you
want
to
be,
if
you're
a
legitimate
small
business
doing
this,
you
want
your
customer
to
know
you're
a
legitimate
small
business,
just
like
our
brick-and-mortar
retailers
would
want
to
know
and
so
providing
this
information.
H
A
You
we,
I
will
remind
our
members,
we
have
about
eight
to
ten
minutes
and
we
gotta
wrap
this
up.
So
we
can
give
our
presenter
adequate
time.
But
with
that
I'll
move
on
to
representative
call
carney
did
you
have
a
question.
E
I
did,
and
I
had
three
but
I'll
just
ask
one.
Thank
you
chairman
and
thank
you
all
for
presenting
this
morning
or
this
afternoon.
I
just
wanted.
You
know
everybody's
kind
of
talked
about
what's
being
stolen
and
it's
been
brought
up
by
a
couple
of
my
colleagues.
I
was
curious
if
you
all
had
any
data,
and
maybe
it's
in
that
report-
that's
been
that
was
referenced
in
three
or
four
other
slides.
I
think
ac
ams
a.
E
Could
you
email
that
to
me,
if
possible,
I'd
like
to
see
the
the
full,
the
full
report
and
really
my
question
is
you
know
all
of
you
mentioned
baby
formula,
for
instance,
so,
and
a
lot
of
the
products
that
you
mentioned
being
stolen
seemed
like
necessities
rather
than
fun
things.
E
Are
there
peaks
and
surges
of
when
these
items
are
being
stolen,
for
instance,
in
times
of
economic
hardship,
and
so
I
don't
expect
you
all
to
have
all
those
answers,
but
just
point
me
in
the
direction
of
that
report.
If
that's
where
they
are
or
you
can
get
back
to
get
back
to
me
on
the
rest
of
it
and
then
one
one,
quick
follow-up,
which
also
you
can
just
get
me
that
information
later
I
was
curious
about
this.
E
5
000
aggregate
revenue
seems
low
to
me,
given
the
volume
of
sales
that
occur
online,
I'm
curious
as
to
the
average
revenue
of
what
would
be
considered
a
high
volume
seller
under
the
inform
act
and
then
just
a
percentage
of
fake
accounts
that
that
we
know
about
or
that
I
don't
know
if
the
fbi
tracks
it
or
whoever
is
tracking
it.
Just
a
sort
of
estimate
of
that.
Thank
you.
A
I
will
point
out
too
I'm
going
to
follow
up
to
that.
Just
this
way,
if
you
could
get
us
the
committee,
some
samples
of
the
various
pieces
of
legislation
that
were
filed,
that's
a
good
start
for
us
if
we're
drafting
so
like
you
indicated
one
just
passed
in
ohio
or
our
sister
state.
So
if
you
could
get
us
some
of
that
legislation
specifically,
that
also
would
help
us
identify
this
now,
we'll
turn
to
senator
schickel.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
am
so.
D
F
To
see
the
kentucky,
the
respected
kentucky
retail
federation
and
its
partners
here
to
testify
on
this
important
issue-
and
I
I
just
want
to
echo
the
things
that
senator
carroll
said
and
senator
west
said.
I
think
he
did
it
very
well,
but
then
also
I
want
to
reflect
a
little
bit
on
the
history
of
this
of
this
problem,
because
this
problem
does
have
a
long
history.
You
know,
there's
probably
there
might
be
one
or
two
people
in
the
room
can
remember
back
in
the
70s.
F
When
we
made
this
crime,
a
police
officer
could
rest
on
probable
cause.
It
was
the
only
misdemeanor
that
you
could
do
that.
We
had
to
change
the
law
to
do
that,
because
in
the
70s
shoplifting
was
so
terrible
and
we
needed
to
take
action
and
we
did
and
we
curbed,
that
back
in
the
70s.
But
I
don't
think
there's
any
doubt
that
we
as
a
legislature
have
sent
a
loud
and
clear
soft
on
crime
message.
F
F
H
Thank
you,
senator
schickel,
we're
happy
to
be
here
with
you
today,
as
always
as
well.
We
have
had.
We
did
inform
the
kentucky
chamber
that
we
would
be
testifying
on
this
issue
today,
but
I
will
also-
and
they
didn't
tell
me
what
their
position
was,
but
I
did
inform
them
that
the
u.s
chamber
has
a
lot
of
good
information
about
organized
retail
crime
and
is
supportive
of
a
reform
act
at
a
national
level.
F
And
the
follow-up
is,
I
was
watching
on
some
news
channel,
actually
the
stock
prices
of
some
of
these
big
retail
organizations.
I
think
which
some
of
you
represent
today
has
been
affected
by
not
being
able
to
absorb
these
huge
losses
in
retail
theft
that
is
going
on
right
now.
Is
that
true?
Is
that
a
fact.
H
That
is
true.
If
you
look
at
the
slide,
where
the
best
buys
quote.
This
was
from
best
buys
earnings
call
that
they
had
where
she
said
it
is
starting
to
impact
their
bottom
line
and,
if
you
think
about
the
products,
bespoke
has
you're
talking
about
high
cost
items
but
very
easy
to,
or
you
know,
popular
to
sell,
and
so
yes,
that
is,
as
testified
by
miss
barry.
A
Thank
you,
representative,
bradger.
D
Quickly,
do
you
you
know
when,
when
you,
when
your
organization
decides
where
to
go,
say,
open
a
new
location
or
shut
down
a
location,
a
lot
of
I'm
sure
you
look
at
a
lot
of
like
the
medium
income,
median
income
and
and
the
just
the
whole
area,
demographics.
Whatever
do
you
do
you
ever
look
at
this?
Is
this?
Have
you
ever
seen,
something
where
you
wouldn't
go
into
a
city
or
a
county,
or
anywhere
in
america,
walgreens
and
kroger,
I'm
sure
you're
you're
multi-state.
D
You
know
I
I
saw
I
saw
some
cr.
What
do
you
call
them
crash
and
grab?
Is
that
what's
called
I've
seen
kroger.
D
I
Absolutely
so
those
are
considerations
that
our
company
looks
at
when
opening
a
new
store,
or
just
in
in
general,
on
security
that
we're
putting
at
those
stores
or
what
resources
we're
allocating
to
address
those
issues.
So
absolutely
it
affects
our
bottom
line.
B
And
just
a
quick
another
point
on
that,
you
know
being
a
pharmacy
when
we
do
have
to
make
the
tough
decision
to
close
a
location,
you're
really
impacting
the
community
as
a
whole.
There
are
several
people
who
might
be
limited
by
transportation
who
might
lose
access
to
a
pharmacy.
So
it
is
a
pretty
big
deal
for
us
when
we
have
to
make
that
decision
to
close
a
business
as
a
result
of
of
organized
retail
crime.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
want
to
thank
the
retail
association
mistake.
Let
you
always
bring
this
issue
and
and
always
do
well
when
you
present.
This
is
a
this
is
not
a
victimless
crime.
It's
a
pro!
It's
a
big
problem.
It's
a
it's,
not
only
a
problem
for
our
owners
and
it
doesn't
only
happen
at
kroger's
and
walgreens
also
happens
at
gas
stations,
and
you
know
there's
there's
very
few
things.
G
I
think
that
are
worse
than
thieves
and
we
need
to
we
need
to
address
thieves,
and
we
need
to
make
sure
that
everybody's
prices
aren't
going
up
because
they're
thieves
that
are
just
trying
to
trying
to
to
get
something
for
free.
I
do
want
to
note
that
the
the
location
that
you
mentioned
that
was
closed.
The
log
range
you
closed
has
a
prosecutor
that
has
said
that
that
they're
not
going
to
prosecute
so,
I
think,
we're
in
the
wrong
forum
here
and
the
main.
G
G
Subject
someone
to
prison
for
five
to
ten
years.
That's
pretty
doggone
serious!
I
don't
know
how
much
more
serious
the
general
assembly
needs
to
be.
It's
20
enough.
Five
to
ten
seems
to
me,
like
that's
appropriate,
so
I
don't
think
we
need
a
law
change
for
these
syndicates
because
we've
got
five
to
ten
already
on
the
books,
it's
already
a
class
c
felony.
G
I
think
we
need
to
be
harsh
on
these
folks.
I
think
our
law
is
very
harsh
on
these
folks,
but
I
would
also
mention
because
I
think,
as
a
matter
of
clarity
for
the
for
the
citizens
that
are
watching
I
I
know,
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
soft
on
crime
and
we're
too
soft
on
crime.
Since
I've
been
here
for
six
years,
I
can
think
of
two
instances
where
we've
reduced
crime,
arguably,
but
I
can
think
of
dozens
and
dozens
and
dozens
where
we've
enhanced
crime.
G
So
I
don't
think
this
general
assembly
has
been
soft
on
crime
and,
if
anybody's
received
that
message,
I
think
they're
not
getting
the
real
message.
Then
the
two
areas
by
the
way
are
expungements
which
are
not
really
relative
to
what
we're
talking
about
and
the
other
areas
we've
been.
We've
increased
the
felony
threshold
limit
to
a
thousand,
but
in
doing
that
we
put
the
aggregate
there,
which
is
very
helpful
to
our
retailers.
G
So
if
any
citizen
is
getting
a
message
that
this
general
assembly
is
soft
on
crime,
they're
getting
the
wrong
message
factually,
that
is
wrong.
We've
enhanced
dozens
of
crimes
in
the
last
six
years
and
reduced,
arguably
the
ones
I've
just
identified
and
the
conduct
that
we're
talking
about
I'll
make
this
point
and
I'll
be
quiet.
I'm
gonna
make
it
again
because
I
think
it's
a
huge
point,
two
things
one:
we
need
to
focus
where
the
focus
we
need
to
put
the
focus
where
it
needs
to
be
it's
not
on
new
laws.
G
It's
on
enforcement
of
the
laws
that
already
exist.
Second
point
final
point:
I've
already
made
I'm
going
to
make
is,
I
think,
is
the
biggest
point.
This
conduct
is
already
a
class
c
felony.
You
can
go
to
prison
in
kentucky
today
for
the
conduct
that
we're
talking
about
for
10
years.
I
don't
know
what
more
the
legislature
should
do
on
that.
I
know
we're
all
very
upset
about
it.
My
constituents
are
very
upset
about
it.
This
is
a
major
problem
that
our
government
needs
to
get
control
of,
but
it's
already
a
class
c
felony.
A
J
The
is
the
reporting
data.
H
F
And
the
second
part,
I
don't
know
how
uniform
the
inform
act
is
with
the
11
or
so
states
that
have
passed
this.
But
it
seems
to
me
that
the
5,
000
or
more
seems
somewhat
maybe
low
on
its
face.
But
I
think
that
when
you're
really
talking
about
organized
crime,
assuming
they
are
very
organized,
they
could
actually
create
multiple
sellers
that
that
are
there
to
make
sure
that
they
don't
meet
that
threshold.
H
So
so
arkansas
was
the
first
state
to
pass
it
and
they
don't
have
the
and
requirement
where
it's
200
transactions
and
this
revenue
they
have
it's.
If
you
have
2
200
or
more
transactions
or
5
000
in
revenue.
This
is
there
are
many
states
that
are
working.
You
know
discussing
with
marketplaces.
There
are
national
organizations
and
everything
to
get
the
language
to
to
work
with
them
to
to
reach
a
compromise
on
this
language
so
that
it
is
easier
for
them
to
administer,
but
it
still
serves
its
purpose.
I
cannot
answer
your
specific
questions
about.
H
It
is
taking
away
an
easy
opportunity
for
criminals
to
take
advantage
of
those
who
are
addicted
to
drugs.
You
know
we
are
excited
about
the
pilot
that
is
being
launched
where
you
know
you
are
having
folks
who
are
have
a
habit
get
treatment.
We
recognize
how
necessary
treatment
is,
and
so
that's
why
we
see
this
as
the
solution
along
with
you
know.
If
you
wanted
to
look
at
a
task
force,
but
we
recognized
that
cost
dollars,
and
so
this
would
be
a
first
important
step.
A
I
want
to
I
want
to
thank
everybody
here.
This
has
obviously
spawned
a
lot
of
questions.
We
can
talk
about
the
word
group
going
forward.
Thank
you
for
bringing
that
to
us.
If
you
could
get
that
information
to
representative
call
carney
and
give
us
a
copy
of
the
proposed
legislation,
other
states
that
would
be
great.
A
H
A
With
that
we're
going
to
transition
quickly
into
our
next
presenter,
who
comes
to
us
from
north
carolina
and
he's
making
his
way
forward
now
and
we're
doing
that
to
give
them
as
much
time
as
possible,
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here
today
and
with
that,
mr
brock,
if
you
want
to
come
forward
we'll,
let
you
identify
yourself
tell
the
committee
who
you
are.
I
will
color
this
by
saying
this.
We
reviewed
some
videos
that
mr
brock
set
in
advance
and
it's
dealing
with
a
lot
of
issues
of
the
day.
A
A
What
I
learned
is
that
that
was
actually
a
suggestion
from
the
secret
service
almost
10
years
ago,
to
basically
make
sure
that
we
are
safe,
while
we're
here
on
on
campus,
if
you
will,
because
somebody
made
a
very
good
comment
of
a
well-placed
truck
bomb
at
that
roadway
could
have
taken
out
all
three
branches
of
government
at
one
time
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky.
So
with
those
things
in
mind,
there
is
a
group
that
deals
with
these
capital
security
issues,
threats,
etc.
Mr
brock
has
been
in
the
midst
of
that
I'll.
A
C
Thank
you
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
visit
your
beautiful,
beautiful
state,
so
I'm
chief
brock,
I'm
the
chief
of
the
north
carolina
general
assembly
police
department.
Our
legislature
has
their
own
police
department
that
has
statewide
jurisdiction
that
protects
the
members,
visitors
and
staff
to
the
north
carolina
general
assembly,
I'm
the
former
president
of
the
national
services
and
security
association
from
ncsl
through
I'm
also
a
professor
of
criminal
justice,
and
I
teach
crowd,
control
and
protest
management
and
consult
with
police
departments
on
protests
all
over
the
country
through
that
organization
and
through
invitation.
C
Unfortunately,
or
I've
had
experiences
with
a
lot
of
large
protests,
and
I
go
to
other
states
when
there's
protests
to
watch.
I
also
help
various
law
enforcement
agencies
identify
protesters
who
their
leaders
are,
what
their
tactics
are.
Are
they
going
to
be
confrontational?
Are
they
going
to
be
violent?
Are
they
just
going
to
commit
access
civil
disobedience,
so
I've
kind
of
specialized
in
this
area
for
time
purposes,
I'm
going
to
try
to
move
through
the
presentation
fairly
quickly?
C
I
do
have
some
recent
news
clips
of
some
recent
events,
because
I
want
to
focus
on
capital
or
specific
legislative
security,
because
what
we've
seen
with
the
george
floyd
protest
and
with
the
dobbs
decision
that
protests
are
coming
to
your
front
door.
We've
seen
incidents
around
the
country
in
leadership
offices,
we've
seen
gallery
disruptions.
C
We've
seen
people
try
to
kick
the
doors
down
of
the
arizona
capitol
while
their
session,
while
they
were
in
session
and
members
had
to
shelter
in
place
and
one
of
the
things
we've
seen.
Armed
protests
in
the
various
states
have
various
rules.
Armed
protests
become
very
dangerous.
If
you
have
opposing
groups,
we've
seen
people
in
galleries
with
guns
shouting
at
members,
while
they're
voting
throughout
the
country,
we've
seen
major
acts
of
civil
disobedience.
C
I
managed
the
arrest
of
151
people
back
in
2011
in
a
large
north
carolina
protest.
So
this
is
not
about
whether
abortion
is
should
be
legal
or
not.
This
is
how
to
conduct
legislative
sessions
and
vote
on
the
issues
as
democracy
demands
in
a
safe
manner,
and
before
I
go
any
further,
I
want
to
say
I
completely
completely
believe
in
the
first
amendment
the
the
components
of
the
first
amendment
of
speech.
C
Imagine
right
now,
if
you
were
here
voting
on
or
or
having
a
committee
meeting
on
any
controversial
legislation-
and
there
was
a
group
of
people
outside
your
house
on
public
sidewalk
screaming
hollering
and
yelling
because
of
the
position
you're
going
to
take,
how
would
your
spouse
feel?
How
would
your
neighbors
feel?
How
would
your
kids
feel?
These
are
all
issues
that
are
happening
and
we
have
seen
these
residential
protests
both
for
federal
and
state
elected
officials.
C
I
believe
so
about
23
arrests
over
two
days,
clearing
the
gallery,
multiple,
stop
and
stops
of
of
of
session,
just
because
the
members
could
not
hear
the
debate
and
it
was
so
disrupted
that
they
they
had
to
stop
and
start
several
times
right
again.
I've
gotten
really
involved
with
protest
management
and
presentations
through
nlssa,
and
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
be
here.
C
So
some
of
the
things
I
want
you
to
think
about
not
just
today,
but
after
after
I
relieve
you,
know
current
state
law
with
some
current
building
procedures,
evacuation
and
shelter-in-place
procedures.
Recently
arizona
had
to
lock
down
while
they
were
trying
to
enact
legislation
armed
protests-
and
I
know
that
that
gets
dicey
with
the
second
amendment.
C
But
remember
if
you
have
multiple,
if
you
have
armed
protests
with
multiple
opposing
groups,
that
can
become
a
dangerous
situation,
handling
large
group
groups
and
fire
code,
we've
seen
a
lot
of
sit-ins,
so
I
would
recommend,
if
you
haven't
done
so,
you
get
the
fire
marshal
to
figure
out
how
many
people
will
fit
into
your
office
legally,
because
if,
if
people
super
exceed
that
number,
then
they
can
be
trespassed
and
asked
to
be
removed
or
be
removed
by
law
enforcement.
I
can
show
you
examples
of
that
as
well.
C
We
know
I
understand
that
your
state
supreme
court
rendered
the
decision
or
is
about
to
render
a
decision.
We
know
the
2020
or
expect
the
2024
national
elections
end
up
coming
midterm
elections
may
be
controversial
and
with
heated
emotions
from
both
sides,
so
you
should
expect
protests
even
at
your
capital
to
increase
I've
mentioned
threats,
doxxing
and
shaming.
I
know
most
of
the
younger
young,
younger
or
young
people
within
the
room.
Dioxin
is
when
you
take
some,
you
take
a
a
member's
personal
information,
such
as
where
their
kids
work.
C
F
F
F
Coming
into
our
newsroom
this
morning,
we
have
new
video.
That
shows
the
moment
the
protesters
made
their
way
to
the
doors
of
the
capitol
and
then
another
view
ends
up
showing
us
how
people
ended
up,
throwing
themselves
up
against
the
doors
we
also
have
cell
phone
video
from
inside,
where
lawmakers
were
showing
us
the
view
as
it
unfolded
from
in
there.
F
F
Building
the
house
is
actually
still
in
session
just
through
these
doors.
Here,
the
capitol
building
itself
is
closed
to
the
public
today,
due
to
covet
19
restrictions,
and
earlier
today,
oregon
state
police
closed
off
the
street,
as
the
group
of
protesters
marched
up
and
down
the
block,
waving
trump
flags
and
chanting.
Things
like
usa
protesters
also
tried
to
break
into
the
capitol
building
at
least
twice.
The
group
was
able
to
get
inside
once
this
morning
and
police
say
troopers
were
sprayed
with
bear
spray.
Two
people
were
arrested
during.
F
In
a
gas
mask
get
arrested
outside
the
building
after
he
approached
a
side
door,
then
around
with
a
chaotic
day,
both
inside
and
outside
the
state
house.
In
lansing
protesters
demanding
the
state
open
back
up
for
business
as
legislators
say
they
are
going
to
let
the
state
of
emergency
expire
at
midnight.
F
Some
of
those
protesters
even
managed
to
get
inside
the
gallery
of
the
house
chamber,
some
of
them
with
guns.
So
let's
get
right
to
rod
maloney
here,
as
we
come
to
you
at
five
o'clock
in
austin
tonight,
hundreds
of
protesters
gathered
at
the
federal
courthouse,
plaza
and
marched
to
the
capitol
pro-choice
advocates
say
what
the
supreme
court
has
done
is
taken
away.
A
fundamental
right,
fox,
7,
austin's,
bridget
spencer,
joins
us,
live
from
the
state
capitol
with
the
latest.
B
Yeah
rebecca,
as
you
said,
that
protest
started
at
about
five
o'clock
at
the
federal
courthouse.
Take
a
look
you
can
see.
This
is
where
it
ended
up
right
here
at
the
gates
of
the
capitol
building.
This
number
has
dwindled
down
quite
a
bit.
It
was
quite
large
earlier
and
many
people
we
spoke
to
who
have
attended
this
rally,
they're
saying
they're,
visibly
angry
at
the
decision
that
came
down
and
meanwhile
those
who
are
pro-life
are
celebrating
big
today.
F
J
C
And
I'll
explain
this:
we
had
a
hb2
protest
few
years,
maybe
18
somewhere
in
that
time
frame.
Well,
several
hundred
people
showed
up
and
as
many
people
as
could
filed
into
the
speaker's
office
and
refused
to
leave,
so
we
had
to
start
arresting
people
and
one
individual.
We
had
to
pick
up
and
carry
out
and
charged
him
with
resistant
arrests,
because
he
he
made
it
quite
difficult
to
remove
him.
C
So
if
you've,
I
would
suggest,
if
you
haven't
done
so,
look
at
your
fire
code
numbers
for
your
galleries
and
for
your
offices,
because
you
could,
you
could
have
to
experience
this
and
I
will
say
for
the
staff
in
the
room.
It's
a
lot
of
times.
Members
may
may
not
be
there
and
it
can
be
very
frightening
for
the
staff,
whether
they're
there
members
are
there
or
not
I'll,
show
you
the
brief
clip
of
carrying
the
individual
in
a
little
bit
all
right.
So
we
know
that
protests
are
happening
increasingly
across
the
country.
C
C
Some
of
the
tactics
that
you
may
consider
thinking
about
blocking
entrances
and
streets.
We
see
a
lot
of
streets.
Individuals
will
go,
lay
down
as
if
they're
dying
or
they'll
fasten
themselves,
with
chains
and
sleeping
dragons
and
devices
to
doors,
they're
sing,
chant
yale.
I
hear
some
of
the
songs
in
my
sleep,
whether
whether
you
had
a
protest
in
north
carolina
or
a
protest
in
california,
they
sing
a
lot
of
the
same
songs,
so
name-calling
sit-ins
and
block
blocking
streets
again
using
their
bodies
is
dead
weight.
C
D
G
C
C
Protester
devices
we
see
that
they're
using
sleeping
dragons
sleeping
dragons
is
very
frequent.
It's
moved
to
the
east
coast
in
a
minute.
I
can
show
you
example
where
protesters
took
sleeping,
dragons
and
attached
ourselves
right
outside
our
governor's
mansion
to
close
down
the
street
right
before
rush
hour.
There
is
a
way
to
go
to
the
center
of
domestic
preparedness.
They
provide
free
training
on
how
to
safely
extract
people
from
these
devices.
C
C
So
when
our
state
was
looking
at
some
hydraulic
fracturing
legislation,
protesters
would
come
to
the
government
buildings
and
chain
themselves
and
attach
pipes
to
the
doors
so
that
the
media
would
come.
The
goal
is
is
to
delay
them
being
removed,
so
they
can
advocate
for
their
issue
and
I'll.
Show
you
an
example
of
one
right
here.
C
C
If
I
grab
your
arm
and
try
to
pull
you,
it
makes
the
chain
tighter
making
you
bleed,
you
will
scream
like
you're
dying,
the
legal,
the
league,
the
the
legal
advisers,
will
stand
there
with
their
green
hats
and
note
everything
and
prepare
the
lawsuits
against
you.
So
what
you
have
to
do
is
take
your
time
and
safely
extract
them
and
there's
methods
to
do
that,
and
this
training
is
free
through
the
department
of
homeland
security
for
law
enforcement.
C
So,
basically,
what
they
do
is
they
come
and
put
blankets
around
them
and
they
come
and
take
devices
that
stabilize
and
then
they
take
tools
off
of
fire
trucks
and
safely
cut
in
defeat
the
bolt
where
then,
you
undo
the
carrot
carabiner.
These
people
want
to
delay
it
extraction,
but
they
don't
want
to
get
hurt.
C
C
They
also
like
to
climb.
Now
we
thought
this
was
going
to
be
a
big
issue
with
the
pipeline,
but
after
the
current
administration
stopped
that
these
protests
stopped
in
frequency,
but
any
time
hydraulic,
fracture
fracturing
or
natural
gas
comes
up.
C
These
type
of
protests
come
up,
they'll
they'll,
get
close
to
power
lines
and
they'll
make
it
they'll
make
it
really
scary
for
law
enforcement
professionals
to
want
to
touch
them
because
they'll
have
a
noose
around
their
neck,
but
they're
attached
to
a
harness
in
the
chair,
all
you
got
to
do
is
know
how
to
be
certified
to
safely
remove
them
they're
not
going
to
hang
themselves
again.
We
generally
find
these
people
not
to
put
themselves
in
harm's
way,
but
they
want
to
look
like
they're
in
extremes,
harm's
way,
because
it
draws
more
media
attention.
C
Mass
mass
in
costumes
became
a
real
issue.
Most
states
didn't
allow
costumes
at
protests.
Of
course,
cove
had
changed
that
so
identifying
people
and
an
enemy
becomes
a
big
problem,
because
if
someone
smashing
glass
throwing
bricks
laser
in
law
enforcement
trying
to
blind
them,
if
they're
completely,
if
their
identity
is
completely
concealed,
there's
no
way
to
try
to
apprehend
them
or
arrest
them
by
surveillance.
Later.
C
One
thing
to
consider
too,
as
we've
seen
both
on
the
national
and
state
led
level,
is
member
protest,
and
I
know
this
is
a
real
touchy
subject.
I
just
want
to
say
have
a
plan,
because
if,
if
members
go
and
join
an
active
protest,
that's
been
deemed
unlawful.
How
are
you
going
to
want
law
enforcement
to
respond
if
it's
civil
disobedience
only
if,
if
it
becomes
violent,
our
speaker
was
in
the
middle
of
a
very
violent
george
floyd
protest,
not
by
design.
C
He
was
in
his
apartment
and
the
protest
was
happening
all
around
him,
so
we
had
to
send
officers
there
to
go
make
sure
we
could
extract
him
safely
if
we
needed
to
so.
In
that
particular
case,
it
just
was.
He
was
living
in
a
high
resid
high
complex,
close
to
our
capitol.
That's
where
the
protest
broke
out,
so
his
safety
was
of
concern.
C
The
one
thing
I
will
tell
you
is
that
be
careful,
most
organized
protests.
The
lawyers
guild
will
be
there
they're
generally
second-year
college
students
or
are
first
year
attorneys,
and
they
they
make
money
by
suing
law
enforcement
and
state
agencies
if
they
violate
someone's.
First,
amendment
right
or
or
if
they
move,
if,
if
they
use
excessive
force
and
so
forth,
generally
they're
readily
identifiable
with
a
green,
a
green
hat.
C
We
learned
a
lot
of
intelligence
and
about
protester
tactics
during
the
george
floyd,
because
there
it's
become
quite
sophisticated,
they'll
use,
umbrellas
and
shields
man-made
shields
to
protect
against
impact
devices.
You'll
see
protesters,
as
mentioned
earlier,
carrying
gas
mask,
which
is
generally
a
sign
that
it's
going
to
be
more
than
peaceful.
We
had
frozen
water
bottles
being
thrown,
and
sometimes
the
bottles
had
other
liquid
in
them
other
than
water
throughout
the
country
tennis
balls.
C
Another
thing
we
saw
was
fireworks
directed
at
law
enforcement
throughout
various
protests
and
another
another
tactic,
and
I
think
it
may
have
been
or
in
one
of
the
state
capitals,
the
counter
protest
broke
out
a
few
years
back
and
the
protesters
were
using
bear
mace
to
attack
each
other.
That's
another
real
frequent
tactic,
so
that's
again,
very,
very
dangerous.
C
We,
our
speaker,
I
say
we,
our
speaker,
introduced
the
bill
that
increased
penalties
if
there
were
vandalism,
assault
injuries
during
during
protests
or
during
what
was
what
would
be
determined
a
riot.
It
increased
those
penalties
that
bill
was
vetoed,
but
other
states
have,
since
george
floyd
looked
at
increasing
penalties
when
there's
vandalism,
looting,
assaults,
injuries,
etc.
C
I
know
that
was
quick.
I
have
provided
the
material
with
the
clerk
and
I
have
also
some
other
information
on
some.
What
some
other
states
have
done,
that
I
will
be
providing
as
well
as
some
other
protest
information
for
your
review
and
I'll
be
glad
to
take
any
questions
at
this
time.
A
One
thing
I
want
to
want
to
add
and
encourage
maybe
some
of
the
members.
I
know
that
this
coming
week
and
I
don't
know,
what's
going
to
happen
with
respect
to
a
special
called
session,
but
the
nlssa
has
an
annual
meeting
every
year
where
they
gather
and
they
they
discuss
these
things
and
talk
about
how
to
make
our
our
capitals
safer
for
the
members
for
the
constituents,
for
you
know,
participants
for
the
for
the
and
not
not
that
we're
discouraging,
as
he
indicated
they
support
the
first
amendment.
That's
never
been
the
issue
we're.
A
Certainly
people
have
a
right
to
a
peaceful
protest.
The
issue
is
that
that
can
develop
quickly
and
can
put
people
in
harm's
way
and
that's
what
we're
trying
to
avoid.
So
I'm
I'm
going
this
this
coming
week,
but
I
know
that
we
had
another
representative
that
had
backed
out
because
of
the
concern
of
the
special
session.
A
I've
not
seen
you
know
many
senators
there
and
I
would
encourage
somebody
if
they
would
want
to
attend
that
to
potentially
be
involved
in
that
and
the
reason
I
say
that
is
because
in
the
past
two
years
we
have
had
legislation,
that's
presented
that
has
not
made
it
through
either
chamber,
both
chambers
that
dealt
with
some
of
these
things,
given
what
happened
with
respect
to
some
of
the
protests
that
arose
in
one
of
our
larger
cities.
A
So-
and
I
know
that's
a
very
sensitive
topic-
and
I
understand
that,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
we're
also
trying
to
provide
for
people's
safety.
People
certainly
have
a
right
to
voice
their
opinions.
They
have
a
voice
right
to
peaceful
protest,
but
those
can
elevate
and
get
out
of
control
very
quickly.
So
I
would
encourage,
if
you've
not
done,
that
many
of
you
attend
ncsl.
A
Well,
this
is
an
offshoot
of
ncsl.
So
if
you
want
to
we'll
have
more
information
on
that,
we
will
try
to
get
that
for
you.
I
know
last
year
many
of
our
our
security
personnel
from
kentucky
attended.
I
think
we
had
we
had
officer
treadway.
A
We
had
brad
tim
bradley
was
there
with
us,
and
so
I
would
just
encourage
you
to
think
about
that.
With
that,
I'm
going
to
turn
to
senator
wheeler.
F
F
C
From
my
experience,
I
would
say
that
97
of
both
sides
tend
to
advocate
for
their
cause.
I
would
also
say
that
in
most
protests,
especially
recently,
you'll
have
three
percent
or
so
of
both
sides.
They
want
to
be
agitators
and
hijack
events
and
look
to
cause
mayhem
or
to
make
a
peaceful
protest.
More
chaotic
or
violent.
The
dallas
sh,
the
dallas
shooting
that
killed.
Four
police
officers
was
organized
by
a
lot
of
faith
leaders
and
they
made
from
the
outset
that
they
wanted
a
peaceful
protest.
C
Hundreds
of
people
were
going
to
march
peacefully
one
individual
climbed
to
the
top
of
a
building
and
shot
and
killed
four
police
officers.
So
I
I
wouldn't
say
it's
right
or
left
and
I
would
say
most
people
want
to
peacefully
protest.
A
These
protests,
if
you
will
to
turn
them
into
something
more
than
it
is
in
order
to
bring
attention
to
their
cause
or
their
mindset.
I
know
that
when
you
talked
about
it,
you
went
over
various
gangs
and
different
groups
and
identified
groups
that
were
had
notoriety
for
doing
that.
Could
you
elaborate
on
that
a
little
bit.
C
Yes,
the
the
generally
the
pro
a
protest
organizers
want
to
want
to
do
it
on
the
first
of
when
I'm
doing
the
first
amendment
peacefully.
The
problem
is,
is
when
counter
protesters
come,
they
immediately
will
try
to
get
in
the
face
of
the
others
and
that's
when
it
becomes
more
confrontational
and
we
see
both
race.
Extremist
groups
do
that.
We
see
both
whether
pro-life
or
pro-choice
do
that,
and
we
certainly
see
that
on
identity
issues.
C
We
there
are
black
nationalists
who
will
go
in
downtown
charlotte
and
they
will
just
scream
the
most
horrific
things
that
people
walking
by,
because
what
they
want
to
do
is
get.
I
got
you
moment
to
put
on
youtube
to
make
the
other
side
look
wrong
and
their
side
look
right.
So
it's
the
troublemakers
in
these
controversial
that
come
to
come
to
these
things
that
try
to
turn
these
things
upside
down
called
hijacking
an
event.
C
J
So
it's
good
to
see
you
since
I
have
been
here
eight
years
now,
the
day
I
walked
in
the
door,
I
was
allowed
access
to
the
second
floor.
Nobody
knew
who
I
was.
J
Somebody
gave
me
their
card
and
said
here
you
go
and
since
that
day,
working
with
captain
palmer
when
he
was
here,
there
have
been
numerous
efforts
to
work
on
the
security,
all
security
aspects
of
this
campus.
J
We
have
gotten
as
far
up
as
working
with
homeland
security
and
in
groups.
At
that
level
we
were
never
able
to
get
meetings
with
the
top
level,
with
leadership
within
the
legislature
and
the
executive
branch
and
the
legislative
branch
getting
everyone
together.
There
have
been
changes
made
over
the
years
that
have
tightened
security
up
to
some
levels,
but
we're
still
working
on
efforts
to
develop
a
commission
that
would
oversee
all
of
these
changes
and
do
appropriations
and
just
make
decisions
in
a
structured
manner.
So
we
we
are
working
in
that
direction.
J
To
make
changes
here
and-
and
you
know,
we
have
had
security
surveys
from
the
secret
service
a
couple
different
times-
we've
had
one
in
recently,
but
we
we
lack
in
a
lot
of
ways
on
this
campus
and
we
need
to
invest
more
as
a
legislature
on
the
security
not
just
for
this
building,
but
for
the
capital
also,
and
but
it
needs
to
be
done
in
a
structured
bipartisan
effort,
and
those
are
the
struggles
that
we
I
think
we've
had
over
the
years,
but
I
just
want
members,
especially
those
that
are
new
to
know
that
there
have
been
efforts
made
for
many
many
years
to
to
make
changes
some
success,
but
not
to
the
level
that
we
would
like
to
see.
J
So.
Mr
chairman,
I
compliment
you
for
having
our
guest
here
today
to
go
over
this.
I
think
it
is
a
very
important
issue
and
my
biggest
fear
has
always
been
we're
not
going
to
take
substantial
steps
until
it's
too
late
and
and
I'm
afraid
that
if
we
don't
take
those
steps
soon
in
very
proactive
steps,
it's
going
to
end
up
in
in
people
getting
hurt.
So
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
being
here
appreciate
you.
C
Thank
you
thank
you,
senator,
and
I
would
like
to
say
that
I
pretty
much
expected
as
much
I
I
had
kind
of
picked
you
out
as
an
alumni
anyway.
The
unfortunately
thing,
as
you
know,
is
that
law
enforcement
is
very
reactive
and
you're
exactly
right.
Unfortunately,
it
it'll
it'll
take
a
an
incident
where
someone
gets
real
scared
or
someone
gets
hurt
or
worse
and
then
there's
a
tendency
to
go
too
far,
and
that
that's
why?
I
think
it's
a
good
idea.
Sometimes
you
know
it.
C
We
couldn't
be
in
a
more
political
place
right
now,
legislature
opposing
parties,
but
security
measures
need
to
be
enhanced
in
a
structured
way.
We
as
well
use
the
secret
service
in
homeland
security,
but
it's
far
better
to
start
increasing
security
for
the
future
than
to
wait
till
the
event
happens.
C
A
I
know
also
we
had
you
know
we
had
some
protest
the
year
before
I
came,
there
were
a
lot
of
protests
here.
I
think
it
was
18
and
we
had
an
incident
where
one
of
our
members
needed
emergency
services
and
frankly,
they
could
not
even
get
to
that
individual
because
of
the
protesters
that
were
in
the
in
the
area.
A
I
guess
one
of
the
things
that
I
wanted
the
reason
I
asked
you
to
come
and
wanted
to
make
sure
these
members
were
aware
is
that
I
think
what
I'm
hearing
you
say
is
that
that
the
way
we
should
go
about
this
is
to
start
planning
as
if
things
could
happen
and
then
be
prepared
when
they
do
so
that
we
don't
have
to
have
that
reactive
concept
that
we're
talking
about.
So
I
know
I've
worked
with
senator
carol
on
some
legislation
about.
A
You
know
the
things
that
brought
to
our
attention
in
most
most
recent
years
about
different
protests
and
whatnot,
certainly
we're
not
trying
to
quell
anybody's
rights
under
the
law.
I
mean
they
certainly
can
protest.
They
certainly
can
have
their
freedom
of
speech.
All
those
kinds
of
things
are
paramount,
but
at
the
same
time
I
want
to
make
sure
that
the
people
that
I
serve
with
are
safe.
A
I
want
to
make
sure
that
the
staff
members
that
work
so
hard
and
diligently
every
day
for
us
are
safe,
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
our
capital
is
preserved
and
our
annex
is
preserved.
So
we
we
appreciate
that,
and
I
appreciate
you
coming
today
and
giving
an
overview.
That's
why
we
want
to
give
that
general
overview.
A
You
know
we
may
be
asking
more
of
you
in
the
future,
but
does
anybody
else
have
any
questions
for
chief
brock?
Okay.
Well,
chief,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
being
here
today
and
for
giving
us
some
of
this
enlightening
information.
I
will
let
the
members
know
that
we
will
have
another
meeting
next
month.
A
I
will
be
chairing
that
meeting
because
I
think
chairman
westerfield
is
going
to
be
out
of
town
that
will
be
on
september
the
22nd,
and
then
we
will
have
a
meeting
also
in
october
and
november,
so
be
mindful
and
attentive
to
those
matters.
If
there
are
other
matters
that
that
you
think
need
to
be
addressed
as
we
move
forward
in
the
interim,
we
have
some
things
on
target,
but
if
you
have
other
matters
that
have
come
to
issue
through
these
discussions,
please
let
us
know
that.
Thank
you
for
your
time
and
attention
with
that.