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A
I
have
everybody
we.
We
have
some
things
that
we
have
to
do.
One
of
our
obligations
is
the
presentation
and
a
public
hearing
on
the
low-income
home
energy
assistance
program,
known
as
LIHEAP,
very,
very
good
good
program,
and
we're
going
to
do
that.
But,
let's
before
we
do
that,
let
us
call
the
roll
Madam
Clerk.
A
Okay,
we've
we
do
have
a
quorum
and
that's
important
because
in
the
LIHEAP
program,
we'll
probably
have
to
do
some
action
to
renew
that
program.
I
think
so,
at
this
this
time,
we'll
well
Jason
Dunn,
director
of
the
division
of
family
support
for
the
Department
for
community-based
services
and
Roger
McCann
executive
director
of
Community
Action
Kentucky,
come
to
the
table.
Please,
since
I
have
introduced
you
but
go
ahead
and
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
the
floor.
Is
yours?
A
Okay,
wait
before
we
do
that
gentlemen?
We
do
need
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes.
I
didn't
I
didn't
call
that
for
first,
because
we
were
one
shorter
Quorum,
but
we
knew
we
knew
how
have
the
quorums
so
Motion
in
a
second
to
approve
the
minutes,
all
in
favor
all
opposed
like
sign.
Okay,
the
minute
stand
approved
as
read
so
welcome
and
we're
glad
to
have
you.
D
F
D
All
right,
so
thank
you
for
having
us
co-chairs,
and
members
of
the
committee
seems
like
we
were
just
here
last
year
talking
about
this
and
then,
if,
if
you
were
a
member
of
the
committee
last
year,
a
lot
of
this
presentation
will
look
very
similar
to
what
we
presented
last
year,
but
we're
here
to
talk
about
our
preliminary
state
plan
for
fiscal
year,
2023.
D
just
a
little
bit
of
our
organization.
You
see
our
division
of
family
support
there
under
the
department
for
community-based
services,
just
organizationally,
that's
where
that's
where
our
division
rests.
We
administer
these
programs.
We
are
the
state
agency
that
administers,
but
we
contract
those
Services
out
with
the
Community
Action
agencies
across
the
state.
So
maybe
go
on
to
the
next
slide,
just
a
little
bit
of
history
about
the
LIHEAP
program.
I
like
this
screen
here,
because
I
don't
have
to
wear
my
readers.
So
that's!
This
is
great.
D
It
was
established
in
1982,
so
it's
a
part
of
the
safety
net
that
focuses
on
energy,
help
with
energy
costs,
Heating
and
Cooling,
and
it's
to
meet
meet
the
immediate
needs
of
for
home
energy
for
low-income
households.
Generally,
they
pay
a
higher
portion
of
their
income
towards
home
energy
usage,
and
this
is
to
assist
with
that.
D
So
to
date,
in
federal
fiscal
year,
2022
we've
spent
a
total
of
71.9
million
anticipated
amount
of
funding
for
the
next
federal
fiscal
year
is
50
million.
The
reason
for
that
is
the
this
year
we've
had
a
comment
in
the
last
two
or
three
years.
We've
had
a
combination
of
what
we
would
call
regular
LIHEAP
funds,
but
we've
also
had
some
covid
specific
funding
to
help
during
the
pandemic.
So
those
all
Kentucky
numbers.
D
Yes,
this
is
all
Kentucky
numbers.
Yes,
everything
you'll
see
here
are
Kentucky
numbers,
so
we
we
don't
yet
know
if
there's
going
to
be
any
additional
funding
for
next
year
or
not
we're
anticipating
50
million
at
this
point
just
based
on
historic
allocations
and
what
we
think
the
increase
will
be
for
next
year
gets
us
to
around
50
million
for
next
year.
D
These
are
this
program
is
100,
federally
funded
and
90
percent
of
the
LIHEAP
award
does
go
directly
to
to
benefits,
and
you
know
when
we
say
it
goes
to
Ben
to
Residents
directly.
It
goes
to
the
utility
provider
for
the
resident
directly.
It
doesn't
go
through
the
hands
of
the
individual.
We
help.
We
use
this
money
to
help
pay
the
bill
directly
with
the
utility
company,
so
I
want
to
make
sure
that's
clear
90,
as
opposed
to
10
percent
of
the
award
up
to
for
administrative
costs.
D
We
do
retain
about
400
000,
for
preventive
assistance,
for
families
receiving
Child,
Protection
Services
that
can
help
with
a
necessary
Energy
payment
and
then
we'll
talk
about
the
weatherization
program
in
a
little
bit.
15
of
this,
a
lot
of
heat
money
goes
to
fund
that
weatherization
program.
It's
combined
with
funding
from
the
Department
of
energy,
so
that
15
and
the
doe
money
go
together
to
to
fund
the
weatherization
program
that
is
actually
operated
by
the
Kentucky
housing
Corporation.
D
But
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
it
here
during
the
presentation,
all
right,
I'm
going
to
turn
this
part,
because
it's
about
Service
delivery
and
we
contract
with
Community
Action.
So
for
this
slide,
I'm
going
to
hand
it
over
to
Roger
to
talk
about
that.
F
Yeah,
so
you
know
we
have,
as
I
mentioned,
the
23
Community
Action
agencies
are
within
our
association.
They
have
at
least
one
office
at
least
one
office
in
every
single
100
120
counties.
So
we
have
a
presence
there.
F
F
We
would
go
out
and
meet
seniors
where
they
were
or
folks
in
their
homes
if
they
were
disabled
and
things,
but
what
covid
really
changed
it,
and
so
we
really
broadened
the
spectrum
of
how
we
can
service
people-
and
you
know
covid-
was
bad
in
a
lot
of
ways
and
go
into
all
that,
but
it
really
pushed
us
to
kind
of
rethink
some
processes
and
things
like
that,
and
so
I
kind
of
try
to
look
at
the
bright
side
of
it.
But
we
do
offer
electron
chronic
folks
can
upload
documentation
things
like
that
online.
F
F
We
found
that
they're
good
for
clients,
electronic
sign
up
online
mobile
apps
are
are
great
for
a
lot
of
folks,
but
some
folks
are
just
not
comfortable
with
that.
So
the
other
things
work
well
for
that.
So
we
want
to
try
to
make
sure
that
we
have
the
program
fairly
available
to
all
folks
in
the
communities
out
there.
We
also
started
doing
a
lot
more
online
scheduling.
So,
as
we
were
trying
to
limit
the
people
in
the
office,
we
would
do
online
scheduling.
That's
been
a
concern
we
had.
F
You
know
you
don't
want
somebody
standing
out
in
the
car
waiting
on
a
line
or
something
like
that.
So
that's
really
helped
with
customer
service.
They
know
what
to
bring
in
and
when
to
expect
and-
and
things
like
that,
so
like
I,
say
a
lot
of
those
things
we
already
did,
but
boy
covid
really
pushed
us
to
do
it
more
and
we
really
incorporated
into
our
kind
of
our
standard
operating
procedures
thanks.
D
D
Don't
know
if
we'll
be
able
to
maintain
that
we
might
need
you
know.
The
the
amount
of
benefit
we
were
able
to
issue
is
a
a
matter
of
how
much
funding
we
have.
You
know
what
kind
of
income
limits
we
can
put
on
it
and
what
the
benefit
Matrix
looks
like
laughs.
D
So
a
little
bit
of
the
mechanics
of
how
LIHEAP
works.
We
have
a
couple
of
different
components.
There
is
a
subsidy
component
where
anybody
who
meets
the
income
guidelines
can
get
assistance.
There
is
a
crisis
component
where,
for
folks
who
are
facing
imminent,
shutoff
of
a
utility
can
come
for
that
and
then
emergency
assistance
and
then
the
weatherization
activities
that
help
with
household
efficiency
and
address
health
and
safety
issues
for
low-income
families.
D
On
the
subsidy
component,
it
helps
obviously
offset
the
home
heating
costs
and
we're
still
in
heating.
Right
now,
we'll
talk
about
Cooling
in
a
second,
we
structure,
the
assistance
amount
according
to
the
tiers
that
they
fall
under.
You
know:
different
levels
of
poverty
level
get
get
different
levels
of
benefits,
and
then
we
also
look
at
the
you
know
percentage
or
how
much
the
annual
heating
costs
are
for
a
household
as
well.
D
That
subsidy
component
is
open,
November
and
December
runs
about
through
mid-December
when
we
do
take
early
applications
in
October
for
household
with
members
who
are
elderly
or
have
disabilities,
and,
like
Roger
said
we
do
some
some
or
all
of
them
do
appointments
mainly
that
helps
with
not
only
controlling
the
traffic,
but
it
also
helps
working
individuals.
So
they
can
schedule
time
when
they're
not
working
to
come
in
and
apply.
D
During
the
crisis
component,
it's
it's
for
an
energy
emergency.
Typically,
we
run
that
application
January
through
April.
It's
limited
to
the
amount
needed
to
address
that
emergency
with
a
certain
limit
right
now
the
limit
is
600
for
gas
or
electric.
Some
folks
have
bulk
heating
types,
coal,
wood,
propane
and,
typically
what
you
know
we
use
the
amount
I
got
to
read
this
just
to
make
sure
I
say
the
amount
necessary
to
relieve
the
crisis
not
to
exceed
the
local
cost
for
a
deliverable
supply
of
those
of
those
fuels.
D
Now
for
the
cooling
subsidy,
it's
much
like
the
heating
subsidy
offsets
those
cooling
costs.
We've
been
able
to
operate
a
cooling
program
for
the
last
three
years
and
we
think
it's
been
vital
to
be
able
to
do
that.
We
want
to
be
able
to
continue
to
do
that
into
the
future.
When
you
look
at
weather,
related
fatalities,.
D
Heat
is
the
number
one
killer
across
the
country.
I
don't
have
Kentucky
numbers
for
that,
but
heat
is
absolutely
the
one
that
people
have
the
most
issues
with.
So
we
would
like
to
continue
that
we
we
have
that
subsidy
component,
so
anybody
who
meets
again
again
meets
the
income
guidelines
can
get
that
assistance.
We
do
that
may
through
June,
and
we
actually
continue
that
subsidy
through
the
rest
of
the
summer
as
well.
D
D
A
Amount
of
money
that
is
because
I
remember
when
we
started
the
cooling
subsidy
we
didn't
have
it
at
one
time.
Is
that
an
additional
amount
of
money
or
does
it
just?
You
have
a
certain
amount
of
money
and
the
cooling
substance
comes
out
of
the
overall
amount
or
the.
D
Latter
we
have
one
pot
of
money
and,
and
we
try
to
structure
and
we're
constantly
keeping
an
eye
on.
You
know
the
usage
of
benefits
and
how
much
is
left
in
the
budget
and
all
that
stuff,
like
I
said,
hasn't
been
too
much
of
an
issue
lately,
because
we've
had
those
additional
funds
through
pandemic
related
Appropriations,
something
we'll
probably
need
to
look
closely
at
next
year.
Yeah,
let
me
go
through
the
next
one
and
then
there,
after
usually
from
July
through
October,
we
run
through.
D
Excuse
me,
so
this
just
runs
through
and
shows
I
have
to
make
a
correction
here.
This
is
not
State
fiscal
year
2022..
We
found
this
mistake
last
night,
the
night
before
last.
This
is
federal
fiscal
year
2021..
So
this
this
is
from
October
1
2020
through
September
30
2021,
that's
what
this
these
numbers
represent.
This
is
a
full
year
of
benefits
for
all
the
different
Heating
and
Cooling,
and
subsidy
and
crisis.
D
Excuse
me
so
I
want
to
talk
a
little
shift
a
little
bit
and
talk
about
the
weatherization
program.
It's
it's
a
it's
a
separate
program,
but
of
course
it's
it's
related
to
home
energy
usage,
so
these
are
repairs
that
are
related
to
home
energy
and
Home
Efficiency.
Also,
some
health
and
safety
things
that
we'll
talk
about
in
a
little
bit,
but
primarily
Energy
Efficiency,
is
the
focus
for
the
weatherization
program
and
we
can
serve
households
up
to
200
percent
of
the
federal
poverty
level.
With
this
funding.
D
It
does
prioritize
households
that
have
an
elderly,
disabled
or
young
children,
especially
young
children,
at
risk
of
removal
of
a
home
due
to
substandard
conditions.
If
we
can
use
these
funds
to
help
bring
up
the
condition
of
the
living
situation
and
we
can
use
it
for
that
and
then
high
energy
burden,
households
where
the
energy
costs
exceed
15
percent
or
more
of
the
household's
income.
D
So
some
of
the
activities
that
the
weatherization
program
pays
for
activities
to
increase
Energy
Efficiency
are
the
primary
focus
for
this.
The
first
two
are
probably
the
most
typical
insulation
and
air
infiltration
less
typical,
although
the
program
can
do
this
work
is,
is
replacing
of
heating
systems
and
and
even
less
common
than
that
is
water,
heater
repair
replacement.
That's
we
put
it
on
here
just
to
give
you
an
idea
of
what
all
it
covers,
but
they're
not
all
equal.
As
far
as
how
often
each
of
those
services
are
provided.
D
So,
in
addition
to
Energy
Efficiency,
we
do
look
at
health
and
safety
issues,
testing
for
gas
leaks,
carbon
monoxide,
combustible
appliances
in
particular
smoke
and
carbon
monoxide
detectors,
and
then
energy
education,
especially
focusing
on
those
households
with
an
elderly,
disabled
or
a
young
child.
You
can
see
there
during
Federal
fiscal
year
21
we
served
442
households.
D
That
is
a
that's
a
lower
number
than
usual,
and
that
is
entirely
due
to
the
pandemic.
You
know
not.
Everybody
wants
folks
coming
into
their
home
when
we're
all
hunkered
down
during
a
pandemic,
and-
and
actually
you
know
a
lot
of
these
weatherization
Crews
that
work
for
Community
Action
agencies.
You
know
they
had
a
lot
of
staff
that
had
to
quarantine
and
and
stuff
too,
so
it
is
a
lower
number
than
we
typically
see.
So
we
we
hope
to
see
that
to
expand
in
the
next
fiscal
year.
D
Now
I
want
to
shift
to
one
more
thing.
We
talked
we
touched
on
this
last
year.
It
wasn't
up
and
running
yet,
but
we
were
just
getting
the
the
the
the
word
that
Congress
had
passed
this
through
the
American
Rescue
plan
act
and
then,
as
part
of
the
Consolidated
Appropriations
act.
These
were
so.
These
were
coveted,
related
Appropriations
for
the
low-income
household,
water
and
wastewater
assistance
program
or
live
web
live.
D
We
we
pronounced
it
many
different
ways,
but
we
touched
on
it
took
a
while
to
get
the
guidance
we
needed
from
from
our
federal
partners,
and
we
implemented
it
in
December
of
21.
got
18.6
million
dollars
for
the
program.
We
very
much
modeled
it
off
of
LIHEAP
as
far
as
eligibility
criteria.
So
you
know
it
wasn't
confusing
either
for
the
staff
or
people
applying
for
the
assistance.
If
you
were
income
eligible
for
one,
you
were
income
eligible
for
both,
so
18.6
million
was
our
award.
D
We
have
issued
all
of
the
money
at
this
point,
so
we
were
able
to
get
those
issued
and
just
wanted
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
an
idea
again.
Households
at
150
percent
of
federal
poverty,
guidelines,
bill
payment,
assistance
for
water,
Wastewater,
or
a
combination
of
both
crisis
for
people
who
have
been
disconnected
or
were
facing
disconnection
and
then
a
subsidy
to
help.
D
Folks
who
just
met
the
re,
met
the
income
guidelines
to
help
pay
for
water
assistance,
and
then
you
can
see
the
maximum
benefits
there
800
for
folks
in
a
crisis
and
up
this
is
up
two,
you
know,
depending
on
the
need
and
up
to
four
hundred
dollars
in
subsidy
assistance.
I
think
it's
important
again.
I
want
to
hit
on
you
know
these
payments
didn't
go
to
these
households.
D
It
went
to
the
utilities
that
provide
these
the
the
water
and
the
Wastewater
services
we
paid
some
level
of
benefit
to
363
water
and
or
sewer
providers
across
the
state.
I
had
no
idea
there
were
that
many
water
companies,
water
boards
in
the
state
of
Kentucky,
either
I'm
sure
there's
more
than
that,
but
we
we
helped.
D
We
helped
folks
who
belong
to
363
of
those
and
again
those
are
these.
These
benefits
were
for
the
families,
but
they
they.
The
money,
goes
directly
to
these
utility
providers.
Some
of
our
water,
water,
water
companies
are
pretty
small
and,
and
this
helped
them
stay
afloat
during
during
covet,
so
that
was
a
benefit
not
just
to
the
families
they
serve,
but
to
the
entire
community
that
they
were
still
able
to
operate.
D
So
this
gives
you
an
idea
of
the
benefits
that
were
issued
both
under
the
subsidy
criteria
and
the
and
the
crisis
criteria.
So
we,
even,
though
the
the
crisis
amount
maximum
was
eight
hundred
dollars.
The
average
level
of
assistance
was
248
dollars,
so
so
we
didn't
come
close
to
to
hitting
the
maximum.
D
As
far
as
the
averages
on
the
benefits
that
we
provided
to
folks
so
between
the
subsidy
in
the
crisis
and
the
admin
we
have
gone
through
that
money,
we
we
don't
have
any
additional
water
assistance
at
this
point,
there's
conversations
going
on
I
think
at
the
federal
level
about
this,
but
until
there's
an
appropriation
by
Congress
we're,
you
know
we're
we're
not
in
the
water
business
at
this
point
but
and
well
I've
hit
on
the
Partnerships.
D
Of
course,
we
we
years
ago,
many
many
years
ago,
the
LIHEAP
program
was
administered
by
our
agency.
D
It
just
turned
out
to
be
too
many
folks
for
us
to
handle
at
one
time
and
a
long
time
ago
we
we
contracted
with
Community
Action
Kentucky
to
deliver
these
Services
through
our
community
action
agencies
across
the
state
and
and,
of
course,
with
Kentucky
housing
corporation
on
the
weatherization
program,
and
at
this
point
this
is
when
I
turn
it
over
to
Roger,
to
talk
about
how
these
Services
provided
by
Community
Action
agencies.
You
know,
combined
with
other
services
that
Community
Action,
provides
well.
F
As
I
mentioned,
I'm
Roger
McCann
I'm,
the
executive
director
of
Community
Action
Kentucky
and
we're
the
State
Association
for
the
23
Community
Action
agencies,
there's
over
a
thousand
Community
Action
agencies
in
the
country,
I
think
95
percent
of
the
land
mass
in
in
the
United
States
is
covered
by
a
Community
Action
Agency
that
includes
Alaska,
Hawaii,
Puerto,
Rico
and
and
all
the
places.
So
we
are
part
of
a
large
network
of
folks
all
across
the
state,
all
across
the
country
that
are
they're
doing
this
kind
of
work.
F
The
last
slide
mentioned
partnership
and
and
I
know
that
that
word
gets
tossed
around
a
lot,
but
it
I
I
think
it's
really
true.
Here.
F
During
covet,
we
were
scrambling
to
try
to
help
people
and
those
people
are
you're,
always
constituents
and
I
think
you
all
know
well
and
I've
talked
to
some
of
y'all
how
some
of
those
folks
were
really
suffering
and
needed.
Help
and
Jason
mentioned
the
water
systems
and
sewer
systems.
We
had
some
that
were
close
to.
You
know
very
concerned
about
fiscal
solvency,
and
things
like
that.
These
programs
help
those
families
stay
afloat
and
I
got
letters
from
folks
that
talked
about
how
it
how
this
helped
them
keep
their
things.
F
You
know,
keep
their
family
together,
keep
things
on
track
and
also
you
know
some
of
our
utilities,
especially
the
small
ones,
keep
them
afloat,
it's
one
tool
in
our
Arsenal
it
it
doesn't
get
in
somebody.
A
hundred
dollar
subsidy
voucher,
doesn't
change
their
life
or
or
change
their
situation.
But
if
you,
if
you
don't
have
electricity,
you
know
going
to
school
getting
to
work
having
a
being
healthy.
You
know
that
those
things
become
much
more
difficult.
So
it's
a
stabilizer
in
that
household
to
keep
that
household
stable.
F
We're
grateful
to
have
that
that
live
app
live.
However,
we
want
to
pronounce
it
today
the
water
assistance,
because
we
had
a
lot
of
folks
who
had
gotten
behind
on
water
bill
as
well-
and
you
know
we
I
mentioned
the
partnership.
I
remember
there
was
a
issue
between
what
was
OCS
wanted,
a
rule
in
place,
and
it
was
about
how
utilities
had
to
waive
off
a
disconnect
for
so
long,
but
that
violated
a
state,
Reg
and
I.
Remember
we
were
on
the
phone
texting
back
for
the
weekend
and
and
public
service.
F
I
apologize,
I
went
in
that
acronym
mode
there
on
you,
and,
and
so
you
know,
we,
we
worked
really
hard
as
a
partnership.
F
To
get
to
take
these
programs
operate
them
as
best
we
can
and
get
them
to
the
people
and
try
to
do
the
most
good
we're
confined
within
the
framework
of
what
the
regs
say.
The
law
say
what
the
funding
has,
what
stipulation
the
Congress
puts
on
it
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
within
that
we
try
to
make
every
effort
to
to
be
effective
and
efficient
as
possible
across
the
state
that
live
app
program.
F
There's
a
lot
of
states
that
haven't
spent
their
money
I'm
going
to
brag
on
Kentucky
a
little
bit,
and
it's
not
me
it's
Jason
helped
is
Folks
at
the
field
working
with
y'all's
constituents
that
got
that
done.
We
we
have
depleted
our
benefits
to
folks.
Some
states
have
just
barely
gotten
started
and
OCS
the
office
of
community
services
picked
out,
Kentucky
and
and
as
I
invited
me
to
a
thing
to
talk
about
how
we
did
it
and
serve
as
a
model,
so
I'm
proud
of
that.
F
I
almost
want
to
mention
that,
because
it
wasn't
just
me,
it
was
the
whole
group
of
everybody
putting
things
together
and
trying
to
do
the
best
for
citizens
of
the
state.
So
I
want
to
say
that,
as
I
mentioned,
you
know
it's
absolutely
essential
for
a
lot
of
folks.
Where
we
see
it,
some
of
the
biggest
impact
is
seniors
people
on
a
fixed
income,
Jason
mentioned
1982,
and
this
program
was
started.
F
It
was
started
on
the
Reagan
Administration
and
it
was
in
response
to
energy
crisis
and,
if
you
think
back
about
that
time,
I
remember
that
time.
Well,
the
seniors
they
they're
on
that
fixed
income,
Social
Security
or
a
pension
or
whatever,
and
if,
if
things
fluctuate,
they
need
that
buffer
and
we
we
know
seniors
that
will
not.
F
Take
advantage
of
that
program,
especially
the
subsidy
programs,
and
we
saw
them,
take
advantage
of
the
opportunity
there
in
the
in
the
summer
and
in
the
winter,
especially
in
those
subsidy
programs,
so
fixed
income,
folks
with
a
disability,
and
we
prioritize
them
in
the
fall
when
we
sign
Folks
up
so
that
so
that
we
make
sure
that
we
get
them
that
help
I,
think
Jason
covered
most
everything
else
there,
but
I
think
there's
a
slide
there.
Jason.
If
you
want
to
move
us
forward,
just
a
hair.
F
Go
it's
this
continuous
Improvement
I
always
bring
it
up
because
that's
what
we
strive
for
this
is
actually
required
for
the
cas
by
the
community
services
block
grant
if
you've
ever
done,
ISO
or
or
anytime
a
tqm
in
manufacturing
or
things
the
same
thing
you
constantly
assess
and
plan
and
implement
value.
You
know,
look
at
your
results
and
try
to
improve
and
that's
what
we
do
and
I
think
you
saw
it
with
the
live
WAP
program.
F
I,
think
you
saw
it
with
the
the
LIHEAP
program
and
how
we
use
the
and
we're
able
to
utilize
that
additional
covered
funds
out
there.
Kentucky
was
a
leader
all
the
way
across
the
board
on
on
helping
people
with
this
type
of
funding.
So
I
just
want
to
point
that
out
to
you
that
about
sums
it
up
for
me,
but
I
just
want
to
again
recognize
the
partnership
we've
had
with
the
cabinet
over
many
years,
many
years,
20
plus
years
that
I've
been
working
with
the
cabinet
through
different
administrations.
F
Everything
else
have
always
put
the
people.
First.
I
appreciate
that
and
I
always
look
forward
to
coming
here
and
talking
to
y'all
y'all.
Give
me
some
good
questions
sometimes
and
some
suggestions
and
some
of
those
things
we
take
back
and
implement
the
program.
So
thank
you
for
your
time
and
I
appreciate.
You
appreciate
your
day.
D
I
will
say:
one
more
thing
is
Rogers
being
too
modest
because
he
mentioned
that
that
the
these
programs,
that
help
with
utilities
are
often
just
the
tip
of
the
iceberg
and
and
what
the
household
needs
and
working
with
Community
Action
agencies
have
a
whole
lot
more
programs
that
are
available
than
than
just
these,
depending
on
where
you
live,
because
each
area
does
its
own
needs
assessment
and
what's
what
needs
are
most
important
for
each
Community?
D
But
if
they
come
in
for
this
assistance,
you
can,
you
know,
get
them
involved
with
other
things.
You
know
other
programs,
and
there
are
employment
programs.
F
D
Community
Action-
and
this
is
a
foot
in
the
door
to
say
you
know:
do
you
help
need
help
with
you
know,
finding
a
job
or
keeping
a
job
or
whatever
you
know
all
kinds
of
success
stories
that
I've
seen
with
and
that's
a
whole
other
thing
we
can
get
into
later.
But
right
now
we're
just
talking
about
this
program.
Sure.
F
Well,
the
conversation
often
goes
if
somebody
comes
in,
they
say:
I
need
help
with
my
bill
and
we
say
well
what
happened.
Why
didn't
you
pay
your
bill?
Well,
I
got
laid
off
and
I
said.
Well,
we
need
to
get
you
another
job.
Well,
yeah
they
don't
have.
They
require
GED
I,
don't
have
one
well,
what's
the
number
one
reason
people
don't
get
GD
well
child
care
because
they
got
to
watch.
Somebody
watch
your
child
transportation
to
get
there.
F
D
F
Going
to
get
them
there
get
them,
get
them
their
GED
and
we
have
licensed
child
care
facilities,
and
so
can
we
get
them
into
a
child
care.
Can
we
affirm
to
somebody
with
child
care,
so
they
get
that
GED,
they
might
say
well,
I
have
to
have
steel
toe
boots.
Well,
can
we
get
you
a
pair
of
steel
toe
boots?
If
that's
all,
that's
keeping
you
from
being
employed.
Let's,
let's
find
out
what
those
things
are.
So
it's
a
I
mentioned
it's
a
tool.
F
It's
it's
part
of
the
Arsenal,
but
we
work
with
ecasep
down
in
southeast
Kentucky.
We
have
transportation,
we
work
with
public
health.
We've
got
the
we're
working
on
a
Kentucky
women's
cancer
screening
program
to
get
low-income
women
cancer
screening
we're
working
with
some
private
Partnerships,
with
some
corporations
to
get
co-ops
Co-op
students
to
go
out
and
do
co-op
training
with
manufacturers,
because
we
really
need
more
people
trained
in
manufacturing.
So
you're
right,
it's
just
a
piece
and
I
know
that's
what
he
came
here.
G
Thank
you,
Mr
Speaker,
I,
want
to
say,
I,
commend
you
folks
on
this
program.
Thank
you.
In
my
prior
career
of
30
plus
years,
daily
I
referred
people
to
the
Community
Action
Program,
and
without
these
Services
assisting
these
people,
these
families
would
have
fell
apart.
The
children
would
have
been
removed.
They
would
ended
up
in
state
custody.
Your
elderly
people
depends
so
much
on
getting
these
resources
during
the
cold
and
hot
times
of
the
year.
Your
weatherization
program
is
an
awesome
program.
G
I
view
I
have
literally
utilized
every
single
program
that
you
offer
I
kind
of
grew
up
with
Community
Action,
my
sisters
on
the
board,
and
she
was
a
coordinator
for
many
years
in
Southeastern
Kentucky
and
one
of
our
local
people
actually
wrote
this
program
in
Eastern
Kentucky
and
that
was
Everett
horn
Jr.
He
literally
wrote
the
program
for
Eastern
Kentucky
and
actually
got
it
into
Eastern
Kentucky
back
several
years
ago.
G
I
certainly
hope
that
this
Pro
program
continues
to
receive
all
the
funding
that
they
need
and
actually
I,
don't
think
they
receive
enough
funding,
because
I
have
so
many.
Even
as
a
legislator.
My
constituents
calling
me
and
telling
me
you
know,
can
you
help
me
and
I
first
thing,
I
do
is
I
refer
them
to
Community
Action
and
they
tell
me
they're
out
of
funds
and
are
you
able
to
move
some
of
the
funds
around
to
other
programs?
That's
not
being
used,
and
can
you
use
funds,
that's
not
spent
in
certain
regions.
F
So
can
we
move
funds
from
one
to
another,
sometimes
and
and
some
and
we
we
do
ask
for
permission
to
do
that?
Sometimes
that's
a
lot
of
you
know.
A
fight
negotiating
is
probably
the
better
term
for
it,
but
yeah.
If
we
can
now,
with
the
coveted
additional
covet
related
funding,
we've
had
a
good
amount
of
funding.
We've
still
run
out
in
some
of
the
programs,
but
even
in
in
normal
times,
I
guess
you
want
to
call
it.
F
We
would
see
spending
higher
in
certain
areas
of
the
state
and
so
for
in
in
LIHEAP
crisis,
for
example,
we
would
see
some
agencies
depleting
their
funding
and
some
still
with
the
Surplus,
and
we
do
calculations
based
upon
average
spend
rate,
and
things
like
this
to
see
how
fast
funds
are
going
and
when
we
think
we're
going
to
run
out
and
if
there's
ever
a
time
where
we
would
see
excessive
funds
in
one
area
that
may
not
get
spent
by
the
deadline
we've
put
out
the
call
hey
does
anybody
want
to?
F
You
know,
release
some
of
their
allocation
back
to
us,
so
we
can
divert
it
over
here
and
I.
Remember
the
last
time
we
did,
we
had
about
six
or
seven
agencies.
That
said,
you
know
small
amounts,
but
they
put
them
over
there
and
they
were
able
to
do
that
so
yeah
we
want
to.
We
we
try
to
you
know
you
do
formula
to
try
to
say
here's
where
we
project
the
need
is
going
to
be,
but
then,
as
you're
going
along.
F
F
Make
sure
that
we're
in
the
clear
there
but
they've
always
been
supportive
of
trying
to
do
that
when
we
do
end
with
a
program
and-
and
we
have
a
date
cut
off,
we
we
don't,
we
don't
just
let
the
money
allocate
back
to
the
fed,
and
this
is
more
of
your
side
of
it,
but
but
we
roll
that
over
and
build
another
program.
So
what
was
left
over
from
Winter
crisis
this
year?
F
We
roll
into
a
spring
program,
for
example,
we're
into
a
summer
program,
and
you
know:
we've
set
up
we're
thinking
now
about
our
fall
subsidy
and
what's
going
to
happen
there,
but
the
federal
does
allow
for
rollover
year
to
year,
and
so
we
have
been
able
to
work
that
out
so
that
Kentucky
does
not
send
money
back.
We
do
utilize,
it
I
agree
with
you
that
we
could
use
more
money
and
but
I'm,
especially
hopeful
that
that
they
will
decide
to
make
that
live
WAP
program
permanent
because
there's
not
a
lot
of
water.
F
G
D
H
Thank
you
I
wanted
to
ask
you
a
little
bit
more
and
he
talked
about
the
three
key
populations
and
the
third
one
you're
talking
about
children
and
trying
to
prevent
removals,
and
this
past
year
we
passed
Senate
Bill
eight
in
the
first
biggest
thing
that
stuck
out
to
me,
the
most
was
we
were
going
to
remove
or
exclude
poverty
as
a
definition
of
neglect-
and
you
mentioned
here-
we
don't
have-
we
haven't
used
the
max
or
people
aren't
necessarily
using
the
max
of
the
allocations
that
are
available,
and
particularly
maybe
because
of
code
funding.
H
D
It
starts
to
get
out
of
my
realm
a
little
bit
Senator
Southworth
when
we
start
talking
about
the
how
the
monies
are
used
for
prevention
efforts
and
I
can
get
you
data
on
that.
It's
it's
not
something
that
I
look
at
every
day.
I
know
that's
available
and
it's
used,
but
I'll
have
to
get
back
with
you
on
some
more
detail
about
that,
just
to
just
to
make
sure
I
know
how
much
we
allocate
for
that.
D
Yeah
300
200.
D
D
F
D
Resolve
their
crisis,
the
amount
is
much
lower.
So
that's
why
the
average
is
as
low
as
it
is.
We
wanted
to
give
that
cushion
in
case
somebody
did
have
that
that
much
of
a
rearage,
which
you
know
it's
usually
not
the
fault
of
the
individual,
it's
it's
the
housing
stock
that
we
have.
You
know
that's
aging
as
it
ages,
it's
not
as
energy
efficient
as
it
needs
to
be.
So
you
know
it's
yeah
for
every
average
that
you
see,
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
families
above
that
and
then
some
below
that.
F
And
I
think
I
think
you're
referring
to
the
like
the
crisis
program.
So
the
crisis
program
has
like
a
600
maximum
right
and
so
the
way
that
that
works
is
it's
based
upon
the
need.
So
if,
if
a
person
gets
a
disconnect
notice
and
they
need
a
hundred
dollars
to
catch
up
and
prevent
that
disconnect
from
occurring,
then
the
program
will
cover
that
so
so
that
100
will
go
on
their
bill
now.
F
The
program
is
set
up
so
that
if
they
were
to
need
more
during
that
segment
of
the
program,
they
can
continue
to
reapply
and
come
back
and
and
but
they
max
out
at
600.,
yeah,
lower
I
think
it
was
lower,
and
then
we
actually
raised
it
during
covet,
because
our
conversations
with
utilities
were
showing
that
those
are
rearages
were
increasing
dramatically.
So
we
had
set
it
at
six
hundred
dollars
to
increase.
F
That
I
think
that
the
idea
is
is
that
when
we
set
it
at
600,
we
know
what
the
averages
look
like
and
we're
setting
it
so
that
we
capture
most
people's
arrearage.
But
we
don't
want
to
set
it
so
high
that
we
are
putting
it
into
fewer
families
and
not
helping
more
most
families.
Maybe
they
need
just
one
bill
worth
of
payment,
so
600
is
maybe
two
bills
worth
of
payment,
so
if
they
were
behind
60
or
90
days,
we
can.
F
We
could
capture
that
typically,
so
I
think
that
it's
effective
in
the
way
that
that
was
set
because
it
is
helping
the
most
people
keep
the
power
on
raising
it.
To
you
know
a
whole
lot
higher
would
not
make
it
more
effective,
for
example,
but
it
might,
it
might
capture
a
few
more
households,
but
but
that's
where
that
was
a
good
threshold,
so
you
go
into
it
with
a
prediction:
you
try
to
look
at
the
numbers.
We
pull
data
from
PSE.
F
We
pull
data
from
the
utilities,
we
pulled
them
and
try
to
find
out
what
a
good
number
looks
like
when
we
go
into
those
and
that's
again,
we
constantly
evaluate
as
far
as
data
going
as
to
whether
or
not
that
prevented
a
case
with
with
child
services
or
somebody
being
removed.
We
don't
capture
that,
but
we
do
prioritize
homes
that
are
in
danger
of
children
being
removed
on
the
weatherization
program.
It
is
a
question
on
the
application,
and
so
what
weatherization
has
is
you
have
a
point
system?
Weatherization
is
very
formula
based.
F
It
looks
at
whether
or
not
you
can
actually
help
the
home
become
more
energy
efficient
and
it
has
has
a
pretty
intricate
point
system.
But
if
that
box
is
checked
on
that
application,
that
application
goes
to
the
front
of
the
line,
lots
of
times
weatherization
Services,
don't
you
know,
caulking
window
doesn't
necessarily
change
that,
but
if
it
was
because
of
a
health
and
safety
issue,
a
carbon
monoxide
issue,
something
like
that:
faulty
equipment
or
something
like
that,
then
the
weatherization
person
can
go
in
and
evaluate
that.
F
D
As
the
yeah
and
I
know,
these.
J
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
what
you
do.
We
really
appreciate
that
I
do
have
a
question
and
I
know
it
was
in
the
slides
about
you
know.
A
lot
of
this
comes
down
to
the
assistance
part
of
it
as
far
as
once,
they're
set
up
on
their
electricity
and
things
like
that.
What
is
the
beginning
part
of
that?
J
F
And
and
again
you
know
we
work
with
what
tools
we
have
and
what
the
parameters
are.
We
can
help
with
that.
So
we
can
help
somebody
get
set
up
with
a
new
account.
F
F
H
A
I'm
gonna
wrap
this
up
and
because
there's
some
things
that
we
have
to
do
here,
but
let
me
first
say
that,
40
years
ago
I
was
mayor
of
my
community
and
I
worked
with
Community
Action
agencies
a
lot
even
on
things
like
a
Section,
8
vouchers
for
rent
and
that
sort
of
thing
and
and
all
these
types
of
programs.
So
you
guys
do
a
great
job
and
I
think
we
all
agree
that
this
is
a
great
program
and
in
the
past,
I
can
remember
before
pandemic
money.
A
Often
what
was
happening,
though,
is
there
was
x
amount
of
dollars.
The
money
was,
you
know
you
had
the
program
lasted
as
long
as
the
money
was
there
right
and
and
and
one
of
the
things
that
really
bothers
me
sometimes
and
I
say:
I
love
this
program,
I'm
not
criticizing
it
I'm,
not
criticizing.
You
guys,
I.
Think,
though,
where
I
I
do
have
a
little
bit
of
a
problem.
A
Is
that
sometimes
we
create
a
program
like
this,
and
we
think
that
well
now
that
we've
created
this
program,
then
all
the
other
things
we
don't
do
all
the
other
things.
We
do
don't
matter
and
and
what
I'm
talking
about
is
January
of
2021
I
can
remember.
Probably
the
price
of
natural
gas
was
about
three
dollars
less
than
four
dollars.
I
think
I
checked
yesterday,
and
it
was
like
seven
something
and
it's
been
more
than
that
home
heating
oil
prices
at
probably
more
than
doubled
since
January
of
2021.
A
There's
no
question
that
propane
is
is
way
up.
Gasoline
probably
was
a
dollar
ninety
two
dollars
a
gallon
is
now
in
many
cases
over
five
dollars
and
and
what
bothers
me
is
that
sometimes
people
will
not
consider
the
consequences
of
their
actions
that
cause
real
hardships
to
these
people
and
they
say
well,
but
we
have
this
program.
Liheap
that's
going
to
help
and
that's
really
just
kind
of
a
cop-out.
A
It's
it
makes
them
feel
good,
but
they,
but
they
support
policies
that
really
do
put
hardships
on
people
and
I.
Think
that
we
have
to
understand
that
we
can
feel
good
about
these
programs,
but
they
don't
negate
our
other
actions.
We
have
to
be
constantly
doing
things
that
we
can
to
protect
our
people
as
far
as
the
cost,
whether
it's
inflation,
whether
it's
fuel
costs,
whether
it's
any
of
these
things,
whether
it's
regulations
that
run
drive
up
the
cost
of
sewer
and
and
Sewer
sanitation
systems.
A
All
those
things
have
an
impact
on
people
and
having
a
program
that
that
just
lasts
until
it
runs
out
of
money
each
year
is,
is
really
not
a
substitute
for
us
really
taking
our
job
seriously.
So
with
that,
but
again,
thank
you.
So
much
and
I,
that's
not
in
any
way
a
criticism
user
criticism
of
us
more
than
more
than
than
that,
this
light
heat
block
application
has
to
be
done
every
year.
What
we
do
is
we
having
this
public
hearing.
We
have
a
finding
of
facts.
A
You
have
in
your
pack
it
a
list
of
the
findings
of
facts,
I'm
not
going
to
read
them
all,
because
you
can
read
them
yourself,
but
it
includes
things
like
that.
Liheap
funds
specified
in
this
application
have
been
included
in
an
appropriation
provision
or
a
branch
budget
Bill
enacted
by
the
general
assembly
in
anticipation
of
such
applications.
So
if
you
want
to
you
can
read
down
through
that,
but
what
we
have
to
do
to
continue
this
program
is
to
adopt
these
findings
of
facts.
So
do
we
have
a
motion
motion.
K
A
Second,
okay
clerk
call
the
roll
please.
H
H
A
A
I
would
like
to
vote
Yes,
okay,.
I
A
We
were
doing
okay,
we've
got
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
gentlemen.
Appreciate
it
very
much.
Thank
you.
A
Next
item
on
the
agenda
is
a
very
a
study
that
we
felt
like
we
really
needed
to
have,
as,
as
you
know,
grid
reliability
and
the
summer
energy
demand
is
very
important
to
us
to
make
sure
that
that
that
there
are
people
out
there
who
are
planning
and
and
overseeing
the
reliability
of
our
electric
grid
and
making
sure
that
it's
working,
and
so
we
thought
that
we'd
it'd
be
good
to
have
someone
come
and
and
do
that
and
so
we're
we're
pleased
to
have
Melissa
Seymour
she's,
vice
president
of
external
Affairs,
at
the
Mid-Continental
independent
systems
operator,
operators
known
as
miso
and
I,
think
in
our
area
we
have
my
soul,
predominantly
maybe
some
pjm
and
some
parts
way:
okay,
okay,
and
so
thank
you
very
much.
E
Yeah,
thank
you
for
having
me
I'm
gonna,
see
if
I
can
pull
up
a
presentation
for.
Oh,
you
know
how
to
do
this
well,
while
she's
pulling
it
up.
So
thank
you
for
having
me
again.
I'm
Melissa
Seymour,
vice
president
of
external
Affairs,
at
miso,
and
this
has
become
more
and
more
of
an
important
conversation.
I've
been
having
with
legislators
across
the
Miso
footprint.
E
So
when
I
show
you
that
this
is
something
that
a
lot
of
the
legislators
are
are
very
interested
in
I'm,
given
some
of
the
feedback
that
has
been
coming
through
the
media,
around
issues
with
our
power
grid
going
forward.
So
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
be
here
today.
So
what
I
want
to
do
is
start
by
talking
a
little
bit
about
what
is
a
miso
and
it
is
miso
and
not
miso.
So
a
lot
of
people
think
it's
the
soup,
but
it's
not
I'm
gonna.
E
Do
that
I'm
going
to
talk
about
what
I
call
resource
adequacy
and
what
that
really
means
and
how
it's
determined
by
miso
and
then
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
last.
What
we
have
as
a
planning
Resource
Auction,
which
is
how
we
trade
power
in
the
Miso
footprint
and
talk
about
what
all
of
this
means
for
the
upcoming
summer
and
winter
seasons?
E
So
first,
let
me
all
right.
So
first
miso
is
an
independent,
not-for-profit
transmission
organization.
We
deliver
reliability
and
cost-effective
electric
power
across
15
U.S
states
in
a
Canadian
province
of
Manitoba
in
Kentucky.
Our
members
include
big
rivers
and
the
City
of
Henderson
and
we're
about
14
percent
of
Kentucky's
retail
sales
are
in
the
Meister
footprint,
so
myself
is
responsible
for
maintaining
this
system
reliability
and
really
facilitating
those
wholesale
power
transactions
across
that
multi-state
footprint
miso
does
not
own
generation
or
transmission
assets.
E
The
easiest
way
to
think
of
miso
is
really
like
the
air
traffic
controller
of
the
power
grid.
We
manage
the
flow
of
power
on
the
system
to
minimize
congestion
and
maintain
reliability,
so
our
markets
select
the
most
reliable
and
efficient
Supply
resources
and
we
have
processes
to
determine
which
resources
are
needed
at
what
time
to
supply
power
at
the
lowest
cost
and
to
maintain
reliability.
This
means
that
consumers
receive
the
power
that
makes
the
most
sense
to
produce,
and
this
is
the
value
that
we
occur,
that
we
create
across
the
entire
footprint
oops.
E
So
after
launching
our
energy,
only
Market
back
in
2005,
the
value
that
we
brought
to
the
region
became
apparent
and
to
to
quantify
the
value
miso
in
collaboration
with
its
stakeholders,
created
the
Miso
value
proposition
to
provide
a
measure
of
miso's
achievements.
The
annual
value
proposition
study
began
in
2007
and
quantifies
the
value
miso
provides
to
the
region,
including
miso's
Market
participants
and
their
customers.
E
One
of
the
largest
benefit
categories
you
see
here
is
the
reduced
need
for
additional
assets
because
of
mice's,
diverse
and
expansive
footprint.
Individual
utilities
are
able
to
have
less
generation
than
they
would
they
would
need
on
their
own
if
they
weren't
part
of
the
Miso
footprint
to
meet
customers.
Energy
needing
this
resulted
in
a
significant
cost
savings
for
end
use
consumers,
so
our
costs
for
miso
are
about
325
million
and
our
2021
value
proposition
shows.
E
However,
the
lot
is
only
partially
full,
so
miso
working
with
State
regulators
and
electricity
providers
take
a
similar
approach
to
ensuring
there's
enough
electric
capacity
in
place
to
keep
the
lights
on
during
Peak
periods.
The
capacity
may
not
always
be
used
or
but
is
committed
to
my
sewing
case.
It's
needed
to
serve
customers
to
ensure
reliable
Services,
even
at
Peak
periods.
E
So
resource
advocacy
goes
hand
in
hand
with
reliability
when
Miser
talks
about
reliability,
what
we
typically
mean
is
maintaining
the
supply
and
load
balance.
So
there
are
no
cascading
outages.
We
match
Supply
to
load
until
we
run
out
of
supply,
and
then
we
match
load
to
supply
our
markets.
Allow
us
to
do
that
very
efficiently
and
effectively
in
our
control.
Our
control
room
operators
are
there
to
ensure
the
system
is
doing
it
right.
E
Utilities
that
manage
the
distribution
system
such
as
Jackson
Purchase,
Mead,
County,
Rural,
Electric,
Cooperative
kennergy
and
the
City
of
Henderson
think
about
reliability
differently
to
a
Distribution.
Company.
Reliability
normally
means
minimizing
the
frequency
and
duration
of
distribution
line
failures,
whether
it's
from
a
storm
toppling
trees
on
lines
or
a
squirrel
getting
into
a
Transformer
but
for
an
end
use
consumer
reliability
is
easy
to
Define
when
I
flip
on
a
switch,
my
lights
come
on
every
time.
E
All
the
time
and
a
consumer
reacts
to
outages
can
be
different
depending
on
the
cause
they
tend
to
understand
if
the
lights
are
out
due
to
a
storm,
a
very
visible
cause.
Of
course,
they
want
to
see
evidence
of
efforts
to
repair
the
damage
and
eliminate
repetition
of
the
issue.
However,
inadequate
Supply
or
resource
adequacy
issues
is
a
cause.
They
don't
find
acceptable.
They
feel
it's
unexplainable
to
them,
which
is
why
I'm
focusing
on
resource
adequacy.
In
my
remarks.
E
So
what
is
resource
adequacy
in
the
Miso
footprint?
It's
the
responsibility
of
our
load
serving
entity,
so
our
utilities,
with
the
states
to
maintain
resource
adequacy,
mice's
resource
adequacy
processes,
are
currently
designed
as
a
residual
Market
to
allow
these
load-serving
entities
to
efficiently
use
any
excess
capacity
that
other
members
may
have.
It
also
serves
as
the
measure
of
whether
a
load
serving
entity
has
worked
together
to
achieve
agreed
on
risk
tolerance
levels
for
each
summer
period.
E
Our
planning,
Reserve
Market,
ensures
enough
resources
are
committed
to
the
Miso
footprint
to
supply
the
highest
expected
demand
levels
plus
that
cushion
in
an
upcoming
year.
This
total
value
is
called
the
planning,
Reserve
margin
requirement
and
each
load
serving
entity
such
as
your
local
utility,
is
required
to
own
or
contract
for
enough
resources
to
cover
that
portion
of
the
requirement.
E
This
approach
assumes
that
if
Peak
demand
can
be
covered,
then
the
resources
will
be
adequate
for
all
other
levels
throughout
the
year.
At
this
point
in
the
process,
the
capacity
of
the
resource
or
the
amount,
the
planners
estimate
will
be
available
during
Peak
Peak,
which
can
be
different
than
its
install
capacity
or
the
maximum
electricity
it
can
produce
under
ideal
conditions
is
the
focus.
E
First,
the
resource
type
matters
in
general
resources
who
southput
is
more
predictable,
are
given
greater
Resource
Credit
resources
who
output
are
more
variable
due
to
the
nature
of
the
fuel
source
such
as
wind
and
solar,
are
given
lower
credit,
which
is
based
on
their
actual
output
during
the
ties
highest
demand
periods
historically,
maiso
is
currently
seeing
a
lot
of
traditional
resources,
retiring
and
being
replaced
with
mostly
renewable
generation.
Due
to
the
impact
variability
has
on
the
capacity
credit,
it
takes
significantly
greater
volumes
of
renewable
resources
to
cover
the
requirement.
E
The
geographic
location
of
each
generator
also
matters,
while
the
highly
interconnected
nature
of
the
power
grid
generally
allows
power
to
flow
across
utility
boundaries
in
state
lines.
There
are
places
where
capacity
limitations
restrict
the
amount
of
electricity
that
can
flow
so
account
for
this
reality.
The
Miser
region
is
divided
up
into
areas
from
outside
of
utility
zones
that
can
be
used
to
count
toward
the
capacity
requirement.
E
A
certain
amount
of
resources
identified
a
power
provider
to
meet
the
requirement
must
be
located
in
one
of
the
zones
that
you
see
here
on
the
map,
with
the
capacity
value
determined
for
each
resource
providers,
then
identify
enough
capacity
or
credit
to
cover
their
portion
of
the
requirement.
Miso
administers
an
annual
capacity
auction
to
facilitate
this
process
within
the
auction.
There
are
several
options
that
a
provider
can
use
to
demonstrate.
E
As
chair
Chandler
from
the
Kentucky
Public
Service
Commission
discussed
with
you
back
in
November
Kentucky
is
a
vertically
integrated
State
and
requires
utilities
to
do
a
15-year,
integrated
resource
plan.
These
plans
help
ensure
the
Kentucky
Utilities
have
sufficient
resources
to
meet
their
customers
needs
today
and
in
the
future.
Resources
identified
in
the
integrated
resource
plans
are
what
Kentucky
Utilities
use
to
meet
their
planning,
Reserve
margin
requirements
in
mice's
resource
adequacy
process,
so
miso
held
its
capacity
auction
back
in
April
for
the
period
of
June
2022
through
May
2023.
E
E
So
our
forecasts
have
shown
that
this
outcome
was
becoming
more
likely.
Our
Generation
fleet
has
been
evolving
in
extraordinary
ways
for
years.
In
the
last
year's
survey
of
supply
and
demand,
we
projected
that
myself,
central
region
which
includes
Kentucky,
would
have
tight
conditions
this
year
and
this
year's
survey,
the
results
of
which
are
shown
on
this
slide,
show
that
the
entire
my
sofa
region
could
face
potential
capacity
shortfalls
beginning
as
early
as
2023.
E
E
We've
seen
aggressive
decarbonization
goals
and
policies
are
spurring
a
race
to
retirement
of
thermal
resources
such
as
coal.
With
the
accelerated
Fleet
Evolution,
we
are
at
risk
of
a
gap
between
system
needs
and
the
resource
fleet's
accredited
capacity
and
characteristics.
We.
We
must
manage
this
resource
transition
and
maintain
reliability
unless
more
capacity
is
built
or
bought,
especially
a
capacity
able
to
reliably
generate
during
tight
system
conditions.
The
shortfalls
we
experienced
this
year
would
continue
and
get
worse,
going
forward,
so
resources
that
want
to
interconnect
to
the
transmission
system
go
through
miso's
generator
interconnection
queue.
E
This
slide
provides
a
summary
of
what
resources
are
in
the
queue
today
and
what
we
have
seen.
Historically,
as
you
can
see,
a
large
majority
of
the
resources
looking
to
interconnect
to
the
grid
are
utility
scale
solar.
There
are
about
2400
megawatts
of
new
generation
capacity
in
the
queue
in
Kentucky.
The
majority
of
that
is
solar
and
the
remainder
is
battery
storage
or
battery
storage
paired
with
solar.
We
will
need
these
new
resources
to
materialize
so
that
we
can
fill
the
Gap
I
mentioned
that
is
being
caused
by
the
retiring
resources.
E
So
what
does
all
of
this
mean?
For
the
summer,
mice
of
Summer
assessment
aligns
with
the
planning,
Resource
Auction
outcomes,
indicating
the
growing
need
for
emergency
procedures
to
keep
the
system
in
balance,
as
well
as
the
need
for
increased
Reliance
on
Imports
and
More
resource
flexibility.
To
reliably
generate
manage
the
uncertainty
of
extreme
weather,
our
normal
processes
proactively
Monitor
and
take
action
to
ensure
enough
generation
is
available
to
meet
demands
of
the
bach
Electric
System
in
our
regions,
but
as
weather
and
corresponding
load
forecasts
change.
Additional
resources
must
be
committed,
including
long
lead
generation
resources.
E
Emergency
conditions
can
be
required
in
the
event
of
a
combination
of
significant,
unplanned
generator
outages
or
D
rates,
or
during
the
hottest
or
coldest
times
when
the
need
of
electricity
is
the
greatest.
The
first
step
in
the
process
that
miso
takes
is
conservative
operations
and
weather
alerts.
These
allow
Miser
to
coordinate
with
generation
and
transmission
owners
to
reschedule
recall
or
accelerate
completion
of
maintenance.
E
Another
step
in
our
action
plan
calls
on
customers
that
have
chosen
to
participate
in
demand
response
programs,
while
saving
on
the
cost
of
the
capacity
procurement.
If
needed,
all
actions
short
of
load
shed
are
implemented,
so
temporary,
coordinated
power
outages
are
extremely
rare,
rare
and
a
last
step.
Emergency
measure
implemented
to
protect
the
electric
grid.
Miso
has
never
taken
that
step
in
Kentucky.
We
continue
to
communicate
with
our
member
utilities
every
day
to
coordinate
plans
for
any
obstacles,
such
as
extreme
heat
and
reliably
forecast
how
much
energy
homes
and
businesses
will
need
across
the
region.
E
So
what
is
miso
doing
about
this
resource
shortage
and
the
resource
adequacy
issue?
So
we
have
developed
and
will
continue
to
improve
Market
mechanisms
to
ensure
the
system
is
resource
adequate
and
reliable,
going
forward.
For
example,
we
are
making
sure
resource
adequacy
credits,
all
resources
receive
are
commensurate
with
their
availability
during
peak
times.
This
includes
a
sophisticated
bottling
and
evaluation
of
wind
and
solar
resources,
since
we
are
seeing
more
reliability
issues
outside
the
summer
period.
E
L
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
thank
you
for
your
presentation.
I
hear
things
like
some
of
the
shutdowns
retirements
and
the
impact
apparently
looking
at
Renewables
to
try
to
replace
some
of
that,
and
it
sounds
like
that.
They
just
aren't
available,
at
least
to
the
level
that
that
you
need
them,
so
is
am
I
so
concerned
about
the
current
pace
of
the
retirement
of
these
plants.
E
Absolutely
we
think
that
the
the
pace
of
the
retirement
of
the
plants
is
not
we're
not
getting
new
resources
online
at
the
same
Pace
as
we
are
retiring
the
plants.
So
we
feel
that
that
Gap
is
causing
a
problem
in
the
supply
in
the
supply
of
resources
that
we
have
to
address.
So
we
either
have
to
slow
down
the
pace
of
retirement
or
speed
up
getting
new
capacity
online.
L
Other
questions,
besides
not
having
enough
electricity
during
these
Peak
demands.
What
other
reliability
problems?
Are
you
encountering
or
do
you
anticipate
encountering
caused
by
these
premature
coal,
retirements.
E
A
transmission
system,
one
of
the
things
that
we
look
at
when
I
call
it
acquires
that
this
ability
to
provide
other
services,
reliability,
services
to
the
electric
grid
and
one
of
the
things
that
miso
can
actually
do
we
do
have
the
power
to
do
is
keep
a
plant
online
for
those
reliability
services
so,
for
example,
voltage
support
or
frequency
response.
We
can
actually
keep
a
plant
online
if
we
don't
have
an
alternative
solution
at
the
time
the
plant
is
required
to
retire.
E
It's
it
can
be
a
number
of
generators,
but
they
fossil
fuels
do
have
that
characteristic.
A
Let
me
follow
up
on
that.
I
mean
I,
I,
understand
where,
where
representative
is
going
there,
but
you
know
I
view
the
availability
of
well.
First
of
all,
I
think
that
to
me,
reliability
simply
is
the
ability
of
a
utility
to
to
generate
and
dispatch
electricity
when
it's
needed
and
and
and
resiliency
is
the
ability
to
maintain
reliability
in
extreme
weather.
That's
maybe
simplistic,
but
that's
that's
my
view.
A
I
think
that
when
you
have
a
generator
that
has
on-site
power
storage,
which,
with
with
the
coal
plant,
it's
the
stockpile
with
nuclear,
it's
the
the
fuel
right
inside
the
reactor
and
and
and
even
you
know,
maybe
natural
gas
good
fuel,
but
it's
just
in
time
fuel.
In
my
opinion,
you
hook
it
up
to
a
pipeline
and
as
long
as
there's
gas
arriving,
you
can
generate
electricity.
But
if
you
have
a
disruption
in
that
Supply
or
more
demand,
then
there's
somebody
doesn't
have
the
general
the
ability
to
generate
electricity.
A
So
you
know
I
think
that's
where
I
I
view
our
ability
to
maintain
reliability
is
based
on
generation
facilities
that
that
have
85
90
percent
efficiency
because
they
have
storage
on
site
and
the
ability
to
ramp
up
and
and
generate
electricity
is
that
is
that
more
of
a.
E
Yeah,
that
is,
that
is
an
important,
especially
periods.
We've
we
find
in
the
winter
period,
when
we
have
prolonged
periods
of
of
cold
weather
like
winter
storm
Yuri,
that
on
flight
on-site's
fuel
supply
was
key
and
maintaining
our
power
grid,
and
we
did
have
issues
with
natural
gas
and
the
home
heat
demand
as
compared
to
the
Natural
Gas
availability
for
for
for
Generation
facilities,
storage
can
be
also.
E
A
a
storage
facility
can
also
be
a
good
mechanism
to
do
that,
even
though
it's
not
on
site,
but
it
can,
it
can
store
electricity
for
up
to
four
hours
normally
on
a
typical
battery,
so
batteries
can
have
that
capability
too.
But,
yes,
we
think
we
think
on-site
fuel
is
extremely
important,
especially
in
the
winter
time
periods.
Right.
A
Right
well
and
and
I
I,
don't
disagree
with
that.
I
think
that
I
I,
typically
like
more
long-range
storage,
I
know
we
have
a
lot
of
batteries
now
very
expensive,
but
they
can
only
store
very
short
term.
A
couple
hours
yep
couple
hours
is
not
enough
and
time
in
my
opinion,
to
to
be
able
to
to
provide
long-term.
You
know
and
I
think
we'll
get
there
at
some.
A
J
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
and
I
think
we're
kind
of
thinking
along
the
same
lines
between
representative
Blanton
and
chairman
Goods
of
the
concern.
I'll
ask
two
questions
as
far
as
and
I'll
ask
them
at
the
same
time
you
can
answer.
However,
you
wish
does
my
my
soul
actually
have
any
type
of
influence
over
the
concern.
J
E
And
the
answer
to
both
of
them
is:
we
don't
have
any
influence
over
that
our
states
we
leave.
We
leave
resource
decisions
up
to
our
states
and
policy
makers
in
the
states,
we're
pretty
much
policy
takers
at
miso,
so
whatever
a
state
decides
it
wants
to
do
or
a
EPA
decides
it
wants
to
do.
We
have
to
figure
out
how
to
manage
the
Grid
in
that
situation.
I
will
tell
you
that
we
we
will
provide
feedback.
E
We
recently
provided
feedback
to
EPA
around
their
coal
ash
rule
around
the
premature
reclosers
of
coal
plants
and
the
reliability
risk
that
that
that
that
that
has
with
it.
We
we
provided
those
as
comments,
but
we
really
don't
have
any
influence
over
keeping
those
plants
online,
nor
the
investment
decisions
that
are
being
made
on
plants
like
coal
plants
going
forward.
A
Thank
you,
representative
Kurt
McCormick,.
G
E
Yeah
we've
had
quite
a
few
I'm
trying
to
think
of
the
number
coal
plant-
retirements,
I'm,
not
100
sure
about
Kentucky,
but
in
Indiana
we've
had
we've
had
a
few
that
I'm
aware
of
in
in
the
in
the
zone
that
you're
in
I'm
not
sure
how
hard
it
would
be
to
restart
a
coal
plant.
I
mean
you'd,
have
to
get
everybody
back
on
site.
You'd
have
to
get
everything.
E
It
depends
on
how
long
it's
closed,
I
think
there
haven't
been
any
conversations
that
I'm
aware
of
to
restart
a
coal
plan
at
this
point
in
any
part
of
the
Meister
footprint
and
we've
seen
quite
a
few
closures.
A
lot
of
those
closures
were
for
environmental
reasons,
but
a
number
of
the
closures
are
just
because
the
utilities
are
getting
a
lot
of
pressure
from
their
investors
to
be
more
green.
E
So
so,
but
we
we
haven't
seen
and
I'm,
not
sure
how
hard
it
would
be
to
to
get
fully
staffed
and
get
up
to
up
to
speed
on
another
coal
plant.
I
know
Cole
is
in
demand
right
now
and
there's
some
shortages
of
of
coal
Supply
because
of
the
supply
chain
issues.
E
So
I'm
just
not
aware
of
what
it
would
take.
Second.
G
Quickly,
I
have
been
reading
that
error.
A
lot
of
the
power
grids
in
the
in
in
our
whole
nation
is
old
and
they're
very
vulnerable.
Can
you
elaborate
on
that
is?
Is
that
a
fact
and
how
much
risk
are
we,
with
these
older
grids
and
being
so
vulnerable
yeah.
E
We
we
do
have.
We
haven't
seen
a
lot
of
investment
in
the
transmission
system,
so
the
grid
the
actual
transmission
power
lines
in
many
years,
we're
starting
to
see
that
come
back.
We
are
actually
in
meso
putting
in
10
billion
dollars
of
transmission
with
our
members
in
the
next
10
years.
It
does
take
a
long
time
to
build
the
grid.
E
I
feel
like
from
a
security
perspective
where
we
have
done
a
lot
of
updates
to
the
grid,
piecemeal
kind
of
through
time
that
to
keep
it
secure
and
I
feel
like
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
on
security
and
cyber
security
and
other
measures
to
make
sure
that
the
power
grid
stays
secure
and
we
take
a
lot
of
we
take.
We
make
sure
that
a
lot
of
the
information
is
protected
around
our
power
grid.
E
So
there's
a
lot
of
rules
in
place
to
make
sure
that's
protected,
so
I
feel
I
feel
pretty
good
about
that.
I.
Just
think
that
the
Aging,
the
Aging
Fleet
and
the
Aging
transmission
system
is
something
that's
going
to
need
to
be
replaced
and
we're
kind
of
doing
it
a
little
bit
at
a
time,
but
it
just
takes
many
years
to
get
it
done.
E
A
Seen
figures
suggesting
that
Nationwide
I
think
maybe
14
gigawatts,
which
of
coal-fired
generation
and
maybe
Kentucky
four
to
five
four
to
four
to
five
or
three
four
gigawatts,
maybe
four
four
to
five,
which
would
be
what
three
to
four
thousand
megawatts.
H
A
You
know
so
yeah,
it's
it's
it's
it's!
It's
pretty
astounding
the
the
amount
that
we're
looking
to
take
off
land
this
year
and
it's
not
something
that
personally
I
think
is
sustainable
myself,
but
I'm,
just
a
state
representative.
So
a
representative
Wesley.
I
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I
have
a
just
a
question.
I
would
like
to
say
that
last
year
I
visited
Western,
Kentucky
Riverview
code,
just
marvelous
people
over
there
and
and
I
visited
back
home
this
this
past
month,
which
is
Eastern
Kentucky
I,
do
know
that
there
was
an
attack
on
coal
several
years
back
through
the
Obama
Administration
and
to
go
back
home
to
see
what
has
happened
to
coal
has
has
been
heartbreaking
because
we
was
raised
up
in
Eastern,
Kentucky
and
and
I
love
the
coal
miners.
I
The
question
is:
they
have
an
achievement
through
the
Biden
Administration
that
they
stated
that
their
goal
is
to
put
out
coal
before
2035.
Is
that
correct?
That's.
E
I
And
if
that
is
correct,
and-
and
that
is
achieved,
how
do
you
plan
on
dealing
with
that
I
mean?
We
depend
on
coal,
so
much
and
I
want
to
give
you
an
example.
If
I
may
Mr
chairman,
there
was
a
certain
college
campus
that
was
picketing
and
protesting
against
some
of
our
young
guys,
students
that
was
going
through
college
that
was
putting
their
self
through
college
by
working
for
coal
and
as
they
was
working
and
still
paying
paying
their
tuition
and
everything
they
need
to
go
through
college.
I
This
campus
came
against
these
young
young
students
for
going
through
classes
to
be
an
engineer
for
coal
mining
and
but,
at
the
end
of
the
day
that
whole
campus
is
supplying
their
hot
water
by
coal.
And
so
my
question
is
you
know?
How
do
we
plan
on
getting
rid
of
coal
and
then
providing
the
needs
that
we
don't
tell
the
public
about
how
that
we
are
using
coal
on
day-to-day
basis?
I
E
Well,
I
think
that's
the
challenge.
I
just
talked
about
in
my
comments,
because
we
can't
keep
coal
plants
online
unless
there's
a
transmission,
reliability
issue
and
so
I
think
there
is
going
to
be
a
challenge
because
there's
going
to
be
a
gap
and
I,
don't
think
the
2035
date
in
in
mice's
opinion.
We
again
we're
not
policy
makers,
but
we
will
commit
that.
We
think
that
it
is
hard
to
achieve.
E
Given
the
transmission
infrastructure
that
we
have
today,
you
could,
you
could
foresee,
having
wind
and
solar
in
certain
areas
that
were
more
productive
than
maybe
Kentucky
like
you
could
have
winds
in
the
South
Dakota
North
Dakota
area
and
move
it.
But
you
have
to
have
transmission
infrastructure
and
it
takes
years
and
years
and
years
to
build
transmission
infrastructure
and
so
that
transition
to
that
cleaner
future
is
probably
going
to
take
a
lot
longer
than
2035.
A
Let
me
see
more:
did
you
have
a
slide
at
one
point
that
show
what
the
mix
is
of
the
Miso
grid?
Okay,
that
one
there?
What?
What
does
that
show?
Yeah.
E
So
right
now
miso
is
42
percent
gas.
29
coal
were
eight
percent
nuclear,
we're
19
Renewables,
which
is
all
wind,
mostly
wind,
and
then
that
yellow
is
other
I
think
we
have
some
Hydro.
A
Okay:
okay,
one
one
question
in
Center:
Smith
is
going
to
ask
some
questions.
You
know
we're
all
seeing
a
really
a
big
push
to
electric
vehicles.
Kentucky
is
is
positioned,
ourself
as
kind
of
a
battery
capital
of
the
world
and
the
some
of
the
things
that
I'm
seeing
is
that
at
the
shift
that
we're
talking
about,
we
might
need
an
additional
30
percent
in
generation
and
grid
capacity.
E
Yeah,
that's
that's
a
great
question
because,
when
we
looked
at
when
we
are
looking
out
into
the
future
and
building
our
transmission
lines
and
thinking
about
how
much
we
we
have
three
Futures
that
we
use,
one
is
sort
of
status
quo.
So
it's
sort
of
we're
going
to
build
out
Renewables,
but
our
future
three
is
electrification.
E
So
it's
how
much
more
demand
are
we
going
to
have
that
we're
going
to
have
to
fill
in
at
all
times
of
the
day
for
charging
vehicles,
and
so
we're
very
concerned
that
we're
having
enough
we're
having
an
issue
meeting
the
demand,
as
it
is
today
without
the
electrification
and
so
we're
going
to
need
just
that
many
more
resources
and
capacity
that
I
talked
about
to
meet
that
electrification?
If,
if
that
does
take
off
and
become
more
of
a
load
on
our
system,
so
yeah,
that
is,
that
is
one
of
the
concerns.
E
That's
why
we're
building
about
10
billion
dollars
in
transmission
to
move
things
around
so
that
we
know
where
we
put
the
resources.
We
can
actually
move
them
to
the
load
centers
and
make
sure
that
they
can
meet
those
requirements.
But
again
that
takes
a
transmission.
A
large
scale.
Transmission
line
can
take
up
to
10
years
to
get
built.
C
Yes,
thank
you,
chairman
Gooch
I,
appreciate
you
making
your
presentation
in
front
of
the
committee
today
and
I
have
a
few
questions
for
you.
If
you
don't
mind,
you
know
myself
Footprints
divided
into
10
zones.
If
you
look
at
the
capacity
prices
in
miso
zones,
one
through
seven,
which
includes
Kentucky
among
other
states,
these
prizes
here
are
almost
50
times
higher
than
they
were
for
previous
auctions.
What
why
what's
happening
in
this
region?
That's
so
different
from
everyone
else.
E
So
what
what
happened
is
so
we
have
when
we
do
our
planning,
Resource
Auction
power
plants
will
bid
in
what
they
can,
what
they
need
to
be
supplied
to
supply
the
the
capacity.
E
The
reason
it
was
so
high
this
month
is
because
we
hit
a
point
when
there
wasn't
enough
capacity
to
meet
the
load
obligation,
so
we
didn't
have
enough
resources
in
the
zones
in
the
green
and
blue
in
the
in
the
map.
When.
E
C
What
you
mentioned
earlier,
Supply
was
a
big
part
of
the
problem,
and
I
I
certainly
want
to
hear
you
finish
it,
but
it's
it's
really
not
supply
when
you've
got
companies
across
many
parts
of
Eastern
Kentucky
that
have
closed
down
and
a
lot
of
people
that
we
have
family
members
in
this
room
that
work
for
for
companies
that
can't
they
can't
get
their
permits
renewed
right
now.
So
there's.
B
C
Lot
of
I
think
bureaucracy
coming
down
from
the
from
the
federal
level
and
other
places
that
are
preventing
the
call
from
getting
to
the
market.
So
it's
not
just
a
not
able
to
get
on
the
train.
It's
not
able
to
get
it
out
of
the
ground
because
of
a
lot
of
paperwork.
So
I'll
turn
it
back
over
you
to
finish
that
up.
Please.
E
Yeah,
so
the
only
thing
I
was
going
to
say
is
because
we
didn't
have
enough
capacity
to
meet
the
requirements
of
our
North
and
central
region.
We
went
to
what
we
call
the
cost
of
new
entry,
so
it's
a
new
power
plant
and
that's
the
price
that
clears
the
auction
when
you
don't
have
enough
capacity
to
meet
the
obligation,
so
that
was
the
236
dollars
per.
C
Capacity
and
that's
what
I
was
going
to
ask
you
next,
is:
if
you
look
at
21,
22
capacity
were
five
dollars
per
megawatt
day,
and
then
you
look
at
what
they
are
now.
What
they're
projected
at
the
maximum,
of
course,
if
it
was
higher,
they'd
probably
go
higher,
but
yeah.
E
C
Is
that's
just
tremendous
for
us
to
understand,
and
my
question
is,
is
to
me
that
price
signal
is
obviously
that
there's
not
enough
generation
out
there
to
handle
it
that
there's
not
enough
product
resources,
as
you
say,
coming
into
the
line
of
what
Kentucky
is
a
rich
State
and
we're
rich
in
Coal
gas
and
many
other
things
that
we
can
provide
and
for
some
reason,
we've
had
over
318
coal
mines
closed
since
I've
been
in
service
down
here
across
Eastern
Kentucky,
and
they
happen
in
basically
two
administrations.
So
it's
a
pretty
staggering
number.
C
It's
obviously
a
shift
in
policy
compared
to
what
we're
used
to
those
are
all
resources
there.
That
could
create
what
you
need
there
to
get.
These
prices
down.
I'd
have
to
have
companies
be
told
that
you're
going
to
be
denied
power
for
so
many
days
tell
us,
which
are
the
best
days
or
the
time
of
day,
to
have
your
power
taken
from
you
in
the
United
States
of
America
and
I'm
walking
through
the
wastelands
of
Inez
and
Jenkins,
and
many
other
places
I
see
the
gentleman
from
Sandy
Hook
back
here.
C
Who's
with
me
knows
many
places
that
we
grew
up
in
that
were
full,
that
you
couldn't
buy
a
block
of
coal.
So
I
think
that
this
is
a
tremendous
part
of
failed
policy
here,
but
to
wrap
my
question
up
with
you
is
that
this
hearing
about
it
now
and
for
all
of
us
that
that
follow
this
stuff,
it's
we've
been
watching
it
come.
C
We
talked
about
it
last
year,
I
think
we've
made
a
big
fuss
about
it,
but
this
all
didn't
just
happen
in
one
year,
but
but
why
are
we
seeing
so
much
follow-up
from
right
now?
What
would
you
tell
our
committee
up
here
of
why
all
this
is
sort
of
hitting
now
well.
E
I
think
and
race
to
retirement
has
been
swifter
in
this
industry
than
we
have
seen
in
decades.
Right
so
I
think
policy
has
changed,
but
I
also
think
that
individual
utilities
are
making
decisions
based
on
investors
who
would
like
to
see
their
Fleet
change
to
more
of
a
green
Fleet
and
and
the
customers
are
frankly
demanding
it.
So
new.
C
Customers
were
Banks
refused
to
do
business,
yeah,
coal
companies
and
so
some
coal
miner.
That's
worked
at
Sunco.
Most
of
his
life
paid.
His
taxes
goes
to
church
twice
a
week.
They
don't
want
his
money
and
they
don't
want
the
company
that
he
works
for
so
from
what
I'm
hearing
you
saying
is
they're
the
ones
that
have
created
this
mess
that
we're
all
getting
ready
to
go
through.
Well,.
E
I
I
think
there's
I
have
some
decisions
are
made
because
there's
an
aging
cold
Fleet
too,
so
sometimes
like
whole
Fleet
is
just
it's
getting
so
old
that
it's
not
it's
not
in
the
money
anymore.
I
mean
that's
another
issue.
When
gas
prices
was
were
lower,
coal
had
a
hard
time
in
our
markets
running
it.
C
Did
but,
but
you
and
I
both
know
that
Henry
hubs
had
it
still
listed
as
the
most
most
affordable
and
reliable,
oh
sure,
as
long
as
it's
been
out
there,
so
I
hear
a
lot
of
that.
But
but
I've
been
around
enough
to
know
that
when
you
actually
look
at
the
market
out
there
that
those
numbers
can
manipulated.
But
please.
E
Yeah
yeah,
so
I
so
I
would
just
say.
I
would
just
say
that
you
know
I,
think
there's
a
number
of
reasons
that
Cole
is
retiring,
quicker,
I,
think
the
level
of
retirement
that
we're
seeing
is
it's
just
not
pres,
there's
no
precedent
and
we
can't
seem
to
get
enough
resources
in
the
ground
on
the
other
side
to
replace
it
with
similar
characteristics.
So
I
think
this
Gap
is
going
to
be
an
ongoing
issue
that
we're
going
to
see
in
the
next
five
to
ten
years.
C
This
dream,
if
I,
might
follow
with
a
comment,
go
ahead.
You
know
last
year
this
committee
had
tried
to
tackle
processes,
streamline
the
ability
of
getting
the
paperwork
into
place
through
best
practices
and
all
the
requirements
need
to
be
there.
So
these
companies
could
mine
coal.
They
could
get
out
there
and
get
the
job
they
could
drill
their
Wells.
They
could
that
could
do
it
responsibly
and
have
this
stuff
in
the
market,
but
I
think
what
you're
having
happen
here
is
is
multiple
things
collapsing
and
that's
one
of
them.
C
It's
harder
and
harder
to
get
out
there
to
be
able
to
get
in
compliance
to
even
mind
call,
even
if
that
there's
a
good
Market
but
I
just
recently
was
in
Lexington
Kentucky
and
I
had
stopped
at
a
place
to
grab
something
to
eat
and
I
noticed
on
the
wall
back
by
the
that
the
restrooms
was
a
sign
that
showed
a
lawnmower
and
had
the
lawnmower
in
this
beautiful
yard
of
Kentucky
Bluegrass
coming
up
to
a
tree,
and
it
was
talking
about
the
future
of
of
Renewables.
C
Well,
we
know
that
trees
don't
generate
power,
but
there's
a
whole
group
of
people
out
there
that
think
that
those
lawn
mowers
literally
are
plugged
into
some
sort
of
Mother
Earth
and
that
it
makes
everything
perfect
and
that
you
can
get
electrical
vehicle,
Electric,
Lawnmower,
electric
weed
eaters,
all
the
stuff
you
want
to,
but
that
has
to
come
from
the
back
of
people
that
are
somebody
out.
There
hits
the
ground
they
get
up
before
the
sun
comes
up
and
they
don't
go
back
to
bed
until
it's
dark
and
they
spend
most
their
days.
C
Underground
that
they're,
proud
of
and
this
country
is
letting
people
that
are
making
decisions
that
think
these
lawnmowers
come
to
trees
that
are
getting
ready
to
pull
Kentucky's
economy
into
this
Hopper.
When
there's
a
great
many
of
us
that
disagree
with
this
very
hardly
so
I
hate
to
see
us
go
down
this
road
last
year.
I
think
there's
a
big
try
to
head
this
off.
To
try
to
streamline
it.
C
I
think
the
federal
government
should
take
a
hard
look
at
whether
they're,
helping
or
hurting
and
I
think
I
even
challenge
our
state,
because
I
know.
There's
a
lot
of
friends
of
the
industry
here
that
want
to
see
us.
Do
it
to
look
at
the
policies
out
there
to
look
at
some
of
the
contracts
right
now
that
are
just
trying
to
get
their
permits
renewed
and
see
what
we
can
do
to
be
able
to
get
our
call
to
the
market
to
help
something
like
this
from
happening.
Mr
chairman,
thank
you.
Thank.
A
You
know
I,
think
that
at
some
point,
when
we
actually
have
you
know
that
we
there
may
be
some
rice
rationing
to
prevent
a
black,
castor,
Brown
asked
where
you
go
to
a
factory
and
say
you
know
you're
going
to
have
to
have
some
reduction
here,
and
you
know
there
ought
to
be
some
way
that,
as
policy
makers,
we
can
say
to
the
Amazons
and
the
Toyotas
and
these
people
that
came
in
Kentucky
demanding
a
certain
percent
of
the
energy
they
get
via
from
Renewables
that
they're
the
first
to
to
maybe
suffer
those
those
those
you
know
close
and
everything
so
I
think
it's
something
we
probably
need
to
see.
A
I,
don't
know
how
you
could
ever
do
that.
But
it's
that's
that's.
Why
we're
in
this
position
that
we're
that
we
are
in
so
representative
Bridges
who's,
going
to
ask
you
about
nuclear
energy.
A
K
You
Mr
chair,
I've,
heard
you
talk
about
the
many
years
it
takes
to
just
build
out
the
grid
to
service
what
we've
got
to
you
know
and
that
and
then
I've
I've
heard
the
the
battery
reliability.
The
technology
is
just
not
there
and
it's
it's
becoming
more
evident
every
day
that
renewable
energy
is
not
sustainable
because
of
the
the
storage
that
the
Pat.
The
peak
demands
that
it's
just
not
reliable
for
the
base
load
on
a
day-to-day
basis,
and
so
I
was
not
going
to
bring
that
topic
up.
But
since
the
chairman
brought.
A
K
I
see
you've
got
nine
percent
nuclear.
Just
your
opinion
for
the
next
25
years.
I
know
that
some
of
the
carbon
free
or
the
carbon
reduction
has
easily
been
met
because
it
can
be
switched
from
coal
to
Natural
Gas.
K
The
problem
is
with
what's
going
on
on
the
other
side
of
the
world
and
other
problems
with
natural
gas
that
the
prices
are
increasing
and
now
now
the
affordability
of
it
and
everything
is,
is
not
workable
either,
but
I've
been
told
that
for
the
50
to
70
percent
reduction,
there's
a
lot
of
companies
that
are
going
to
meet
that
earlier
than
2025
to
2030.,
but
that
last
30
to
40
percent
is
is
being
seen
as
impossible,
because
you
you
the
only
way
to
do.
E
K
There
is
absolutely
nothing
out
there,
so
I'm
gonna
put
you
on
the
spot.
What's
your
opinion,
I
mean
you
go
from
Canada
to
the
Gulf
of
Mexico.
E
K
E
Chair
so
so
the
question
is:
what's
going
to
fill
the
void
if
we're
going
to
try
to
get
to
100
carbon,
free
and
I.
Think
our
analysis
at
miso
has
done.
Is
it's
almost
impossible
to
get
to
100
carbon
free
I?
Think
in
the
short
term,
gas?
Is
your
Bridge
fuel
that
you're
going
to
have
to
convert
cold
gas
you're
going
to
have
to
build
gas?
E
I
know
hydrocarbons
are
a
thing
out
there
that
could
be
possible
in
the
future
and
20
15
20
years
from
now
we
might
see
that
become
an
economic
thing.
Small
modular
nuclear
is
possible
and
I
think
people
are
looking
at
that
pretty
hard
right
now
to
see,
if
there's
an
option
for
that
and
then
battery
storage
is
going
to
have
to
get
better
and
cheaper
right.
Now
it's
about
a
four
hour
hold
and
that
doesn't
hold
you
over
winter
storm
Yuri
right.
E
It
only
holds
you
for
four
hours
so
but
I
think
that
combination
is
going
to
have
to
happen.
I
I
will
say
you
know
we
do
have
on
our
system
about
30
gigawatts
of
wind,
so
we're
pretty
big
on
wind.
We
don't
have
as
much
solar
Kentucky
will
have
solar
I
mean
that's
what's
in
your
queue,
and
the
diversity
of
the
wind
makes
a
difference,
so
it
does
perform
and
it
is
dispatchable
by
the
way
on
our
system.
E
K
See
that
with
the
new
EPA
ruling
recently
that
there
may
be
a
slight
bit
of
Hope
there,
of
course
it
takes
years
I
understand
that,
but
anyway,
I
I
I
do
think
it's
sad
that
the
war
on
coal
there
were
no
efforts
to
try
to
clean
it
up
or
try
to
work
with
it
or
research
put
into
it
that
they
should
have
been
years
ago
and
I
would
hope
that
we
see
see
more
research
going
in
that
way
too.
So,
but
anyway,
I
appreciate
you
and
all
you
do
and
thank
you
for
your.
K
A
And
and
along
those
lines
too,
you
know
I
have
concerns
myself.
As
we
talk
about
the
bridge
Fuel
and
I,
like
natural
gas
heat,
my
home
with
it,
we
run
a
lot
of
our
businesses
with
it.
But
we
talk.
We
talk
strictly
about
carbon
and
there's
never
any
mention
of
methane,
which,
in
the
short
term,
is
about
20
times
more
damaging
in
the
atmosphere,
and
it
just
seems
like
that.
Never
gets
talked
about,
and
you
know,
I
really
think
there
are
no
truly
green,
clean
forms
of
energy,
including
wind
and
solar.
A
You
know,
so
we
do
have
a
couple
more
questions,
representative
Johnson
and
the
last
one
represented
Wesley.
Thank.
H
H
Do
you
see
from
your
perspective
or
hear
from
your
perspective
outside
of
Kentucky,
but
in
the
Miso
region,
conversations
about
nuclear
or
information
that
perhaps
we
should
know
about
that?
Maybe
we
aren't
privy
to
just
because
we're
in
our
own
little
world
here.
Do
you
have
any
suggestions
on
where
it's
somebody
that
might
be
doing
it
faster
or
better
than
us,
and
we.
E
Want
to
learn
something
there
are
other
legislatures.
Actually
they
might
say,
footprint
that
are
looking
at
nuclear
Indiana
I
think
is
another
one.
That
I
can
recall.
I
would
say:
go
to
the
nuclear
regulatory.
The
association
to
talk
about
what
they're,
looking
at
in
small
modular
nuclear,
try
to
get
yourself
educated
I
would
get
somebody
to
come
talk
about
it.
E
To
be
honest,
I
mean
nobody's
done
it
yet,
but
I
think
it's
on
the
radar
more
and
more
these
days
we
just
closed
one
of
the
only
so
this
eight
percent
just
went
down
by
half
I
think
we
just
closed
this
year
on
May
31st,
a
nuclear,
a
large
1200
megawatt
nuclear
plant
in
Michigan
I
mean
talk
about
Green,
you
know
power.
E
We
just
that
was
part
of
the
Gap
that
we
saw
this
year
was
a
1200
megawatt
nuclear
plant
being
retired,
so
yeah
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
people
talking
about
how
we
could
use
nuclear
going
forward,
but
I
think
they're
the
best
piece
of
information
because
they're
looking
at
labs
and
other
things
and
try
to
figure
out
how
to
how
to
make
it
more
economic,
because
you
know
the
only
nuclear
plant
that's
getting
built
right
now
is
Vogel.
It's
in
Georgia
and
it's
overruns
are
astronomical,
I
mean
they're.
A
And
but,
and
one
of
the
things
too,
we
were
talking
about,
you
know
some
of
the
coal
plants,
as
you
said,
you
know,
hey,
we
had
gotten
to
the
end
of
their
lives,
a
cycle,
and,
but
you
know,
part
of
the
pre
part
of
the
part
of
the
problem
in
the
past
has
been
things
like
new
source
review,
or
you
know
we
didn't
allow
people
to
upgrade
these
plants
along
to
where
they
would
have
been
less
polluting,
and
you
know-
and
so
it's
there
there
have
been.
A
Are
our
friends
in
the
federal
government
have
not
helped
us
at
all,
no
matter
which
Administration,
democrat
or
republican?
So
there's
a
lot
of
reasons.
Why
we're
in
the
position
that
we're
in
so
representative
Wesley.
I
How
do
people
expect
to
put
them
windmills
here
in
Kentucky
to
produce
some
kind
of
generation
of
of
energy,
and
and
so
that's
that's
what
my
statement
and
my
question
was
earlier.
How
does
people
really
plan
to
do
that
here
in
in
the
Bluegrass
and
my
heart
just
went
out
to
all
the
coal
miners
over
in
Eastern,
Kentucky
and
so
I
just
want
to
clarify
that
Mr
chairman?
Thank
you.
Thank.
L
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
it
is
a
closing
comment.
Thank
you
for
your
presentation
today.
I
think
it's
pretty
clear
that
we're
in
trouble.
If
we're
trying
to
go
all
renewable
as
some
companies
are
today
we're
going
to
be
hurting,
we're
producing
the
cleanest
coal.
We've
ever
produced
we're
hearing
about
how
that
some
of
the
elitists
are
not
wanting
to
invest
their
monies
in
companies
or
in
new
plants
and
so
they're
retiring
them,
and
those
are
the
same
people.
L
That's
going
to
complain
when
they're
having
blackouts
those
are
the
same
people
that
claim
they
want
to
protect
the
poor
and
be
there
for
of
them
when
all
they're
doing
is
creating
poverty
in
my
region,
because
coal
is
a
way
of
life
for
Generations,
it
provides
electricity.
We're
also
overlooking
the
impact
that
coal
is
just
not
for
electricity.
You
take
metco,
it's
used
in
the
making
of
steel
there's
many
different
products
that
are
made
from
coal
raw
Earth.
L
Minerals
are
mined
from
coal,
so
are
they
even
thinking
along
those
lines
and
the
Damage
they're
doing
to
not
just
our
coal
industry
but
to
our
citizensry,
especially
in
my
region
of
the
state,
those
people
who
have
balled
into
the
woke
agenda
of
all
this
green
energy?
They
might
ought
to
look
at
countries
like
Germany
who
tried
this
and
what
do
they
find
out?
It
doesn't
work,
and
so
what
are
they
doing
today?
L
They
are
building
Coal
Fire
plants
as
fast
as
they
can
build
them,
because
it's
the
most
reliable
source
of
energy,
so
we're
shipping,
our
coal
to
these
other
countries,
trees,
and
it's
time
that
that
logical,
Minds,
that
are
thinking
about
our
future
and
our
people
are,
are
making
the
decisions
and
not
letting
a
few
who
cry
the
loudest
get
their
way,
because
all
they're
doing
is
is
creating
a
future
for
my
granddaughter
and
her
children.
L
A
Let's
see
more,
let
me
let
me
first
thank
you
for
a
great
presentation.
It's
one
of
the
best
that
I
think
this
committee
has
had
I.
Think
you
can
see
the
frustration
that
our
committee
has,
because
when
I
came
here
28
years
ago
we
were
93
cold,
our
electricity
and
now
we're
69
and
we're
going
even
lower.
We
want
you
to
understand
that
in
no
way
was
that
frustration
ever
you
know.
L
A
To
you
and
because
we
know
you
know
what
you're
doing
and
you
and
we
just
think,
I
think
that
you've
actually
helped
us
present
and
and
articulate
why
we
continue
to
have
concerns
and
and
what
I
think
you've
done
is
you've.
Let
us
know
that
those
concerns
are
real
and
because
of
your
expertise
and
the
things
you're
doing
anything
that
we
need
to
be
doing.
A
Let
us
know
and
do
you
need
to,
would
you
like
to
say
anything
else,
but
we
certainly.
A
Okay,
well
that's
great,
but
thank
you
so
much
and
we
appreciate
it.
Members
thanks
for
standing
for
the
entire
meeting
and
this
this
meeting
is
adjourned.