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From YouTube: House Standing Committee on Judiciary (2-23-22)
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A
Good
afternoon
everyone
welcome
to
the
judiciary
committee
meeting.
We
do
we,
we
call
the
roll
in
just
a
moment.
I
will
remind
people
that,
if
you're
going
to
sign
up
for
these
meetings,
we
need
to
do
so.
If
you
can
in
advance,
you
can
see
how
many
people
we
have
here.
We
have
a
fully
packed
agenda
today
and
so
we're
going
to
have
to
be
pretty
tight
on
timelines.
A
Here
in
the
room
well,
good
afternoon,
everybody
we
have
four
matters
on
the
agenda
today.
We
need
to
do
a
hard
stop
around
1
45,
so
the
members
can
get
over
to
session
which
begins
at
two.
So
we're
going
to
take
these
bills
a
little
bit
out
of
order
today,
we're
going
to
by
the
way,
there's
an
overflow
room
in
room
171.
A
If
we
get
more
people
in
here
and
they
need
to
have
more
space
or
spread
out
today,
we're
going
to
start
with
house
bill,
4
88,
which
is
brought
by
representative
hevron,
I'm
going
with
the
bills.
Initially,
this
will
be
488.
The
next
one
will
be
501,
then
we'll
go
with
214
and,
lastly
313.
I
did
them
in
the
order
of
where
I
think
the
discussion
is
going
to
flow,
so
we're
going
to
go
with
the
quicker
bills
first.
So
with
that
representative
hevron,
you
have
the
floor.
E
E
So
what
house
bill
40
house
bill
488
does
is
currently
in
statute.
We've
got
a
violation
of
an
order
of
protection.
Is
a
class,
a
misdemeanor.
What
this
does
is
make
it
makes
the
first
violation
of
the
order
of
protection,
a
class,
a
misdemeanor
and
then
the
second
one
within
a
five
year
time
period
of
class
d
felony,
and
that's
literally
the
bill.
D
D
Mr
chairman,
like
to
explain
my
vote.
Yes,.
D
Typically,
not
in
support
of
additional
felony,
so
I'm
gonna
pass
on
this
for
now.
Just
so,
I
can
dig
deeper
into
the
bill
and
if
any
additional
questions
arise,
I'll
come
to
you.
Thank
you.
A
There
being
15,
yes,
votes,
zero,
no
votes
and
one
pass
vote.
This
bill
were
reported
with
favorable
expression
that
the
same
should
pass.
Thank
you
for
this
bill
for
those
in
the
room
that
are
practicing
attorneys
that
do
domestic
work.
This
is
a
very
interesting
area
of
the
law
and
it's
brought
about
very
frequently.
So
I
think
it's
a
good
presentation
and
thank
you.
A
A
I'll
begin
with
the
explanation
of
the
sub
quickly,
so
there
was
a
provision.
This
deals
with
the
bill
that
was
passed
last
year
on
child
support
where
it
had
not
been
upgraded
or
redone
in
over
20
years.
The
judges
were
most
appreciative
of
that,
and
that
has
gone
into
effect.
However,
we
had
a
piece
of
that
bill
that
dealt
with
calculation
of
overnight
parenting
time
or
credit
time
that
had
to
be
worked
through,
and
so
we
put
a
deadline
in
that
for
march
of
this
year.
A
After
trying
to
go
through
drafting
procedures
and
learning,
it
was
a
lot
easier
to
talk
about
it
than
to
draft
it.
We
sat
down
with
a
national
expert
with
the
child
support
commission
with
several
judges
and
practicing
attorneys
that
do
this
type
of
work
and
sought
to
find
a
way
that
we
could
make
this
work
agreeably.
So
what
we
have
come
up
with
is
the
bill
that
is
before
you
now
the
important
thing
about
this
bill,
because
yesterday
I
started
getting
some
emails
from
judges
that
were
concerned,
and
let
me
address
that.
A
It's
really
not
a
complicated
thing,
but
when
you
have
shared
parenting
arrangements
where
people
are
doing
different
variations,
where
they
might
have
two
nights
one
week,
four
nights
the
next
week
etc.
Then
you
have
to
find
a
way
to
compute
an
accurate
accounting
of
that
overnight
visitation
in
order
to
apply
equitable
and
fair
credit,
and
that's
what
we
sought
to
accomplish
in
the
bill.
That's
before
you,
I
spent
several
meetings
along
with
my
colleagues
with
the
child
support
commission.
A
I
think
they're
presenting
on
another
bill
today
somewhere
at
this
time,
but
we've
worked
with
them
diligently.
They
have
agreed
to
work
on
this
manual.
We've
told
them.
We
want
that
manual
to
be
simplistic,
not
like
the
manual
of
michigan,
which
is
over
100
pages,
but
we
want
to
put
in
there
examples
solutions
and
ways
to
credit
that
time
so
that
it's
a
fair
calculation.
A
So,
yes,
we
will
have
time
for
input
from
those
judges
to
make
sure
that
those
matters
are
addressed
appropriately
in
the
manual.
Furthermore,
obviously,
with
it
being
delayed
until
january
of
2023,
we
will
be
able
to
make
any
adjustments
that
are
necessary
when
shared
parenting.
A
few
years
back,
we
had
a
case
decision
that
said,
there's
a
presumption
in
kentucky
of
shared
parenting.
A
It
created
difficulties
in
the
sense
of
became
a
more
fair
system
in
many
ways,
but
at
the
same
time
we
don't
want
to
create
an
avalanche
of
cases
for
courts
where
people
said
I
got
one
more
overnight
than
I
usually
do.
So
I
want
to
go
back
and
have
a
hearing
to
change
the
child
support
amount,
and
so
you
get
into
these
ongoing
litigious
battles
between
people.
In
a
domestic
scenario,
we
don't
want
to
create
more
matters.
We
want
it
to
be
simplistic,
but
there's
really
not
a
simplistic
way
to
do
this.
A
That
is
fair,
so
we
actually,
from
the
national
expert,
looked
at
models
all
around
the
country,
oregon,
arizona,
michigan,
indiana,
look
at
our
own
model
and
we
created
a
hybrid
that
we
believe,
according
to
the
child,
support
commission
is
functional.
The
last
thing
I'll
say
is
getting
back
to
the
question
early
on
by
representative
stevenson
about
the
change.
It
was
a
technical
change
that
if
there's
a
shared
parenting,
50
50
share
parenting
arrangement,
then
the
person
who
makes
the
most
income
will
be
designated
as
the
obligor.
A
So
that's
the
technical
change
to
go
into
their
computerized
system,
because
this
is
going
to
be
a
situation
where
you
can
actually
go
into
a
computerized
system
like
you
can
now
calculate
the
support
plug
in
the
applicable
number
of
overnights
and
get
your
credit.
So
it's
a
it's
a
complex
task
and
frankly,
in
our
general
assembly,
there
are
not
a
whole
lot
of
attorneys
that
actually
do
child
support
calculations.
A
I'm
very
honored
to
have
here
with
me
today
my
colleague
angie
hatton,
representative
hatten,
that
does
that
and
we've
talked
with
her
about
it.
She's
reviewed
the
bill,
and
I
said
you
know
look
we.
This
is
a
bill.
That
is
it's
not
about
partisanship.
This
bill
entirely
is
about
trying
to
create
a
fair
process
so
whether
you're,
the
obligor
paying
child
support
or
whether
you're
the
obligee
that's
going
to
be
receiving
child
support.
It
is
a
fair,
understandable
format
and
I'll
turn
it
over
to
my
colleague.
D
Thank
you,
representative
massey,
and
so
I'm
here
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
process
of
how
this
bill
has
evolved.
This
is
my
third
year
working
on
this
bill.
First
started
with
former
judiciary,
chairman
petrie
and
now
last
session
in
the
interim
and
during
regular
session
and
the
interim
again
and
continuing
into
this
session
with
chairman
massey,
to
try
to
solve
problems
that
were
created
when
we
enacted
the
legislation
that
presumes
50,
50
custody,
and
I
voted
for
that
legislation.
D
I
think
it's
the
fairest
way
to
do
custody,
but
it
created
a
nightmare
in
our
antiquated
child
support
system
that,
as
chairman
massey
has
has
said,
had
not
been
touched
in
over
20
years.
We
needed
to
update
the
income
tables
we
needed
to
determine
what
was
going
to
happen
if
there
was
some
form
of
shared
custody
that
wasn't
exactly
50
50
based
on
parents,
work
schedules
and
kids,
academic
and
athletic
schedules.
It
sometimes
is
very
difficult
to
make
that
custody
exactly
50
50.
D
and
when
it
starts
to
vary,
then
child
support
was
getting
less
and
less
fair
for
either
parent
and,
ultimately
the
child,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that
the
income
level
is
about
the
same
for
the
for
the
child,
no
matter
which
household
that
they're
spending
time
in
so
while
it
will
continue
to
evolve.
I'm
sure
we
have
talked
to
stakeholders.
D
Judges,
child
support
enforcement
officials
and
then
I'm
a
practicing
family
law
attorney
and
and
need
to
calculate
child
support.
In
my
cases
that
are
never
cut
and
dried
anymore
regarding
parenting
time
there,
the
the
situation
where
there
is
exactly
50
50
custody
and
exactly
the
same
income
for
both
parents
really
don't
exist,
and
I
mean
it's
possible
if
the
parents
have
the
exact
same
job,
exact
same
hours
that
that
they
have
the
same
exact
amount
of
time
spent
with
the
child
or
children
that
it
could
be
a
zero
child
support
situation.
D
But
for
every
single
dollar
or
minute
that
that
it
goes
up.
It
becomes
increasingly
unfair
unless
we
make
these
adjustments.
So
while
there
is
something
to
love
and
hate
about
every
single
state's
approach
to
this-
and
there
are
things
that
will
aggravate
people
or
be
difficult
to
learn
and
may
ultimately
need
to
be
adjusted
in
every
single
approach
that
we
took.
We
ultimately
decided
that
this
was
the
best
we
could.
We
could
do
to
address
this
problem
and
we
are
certainly
still
open
to
to
input
from.
H
D
I
D
J
E
Yes,
can
I
quickly
explain
my
vote?
Thank
you.
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
all
for
bringing
this.
I
think
this
is
a
very
important
issue
and
I
think
a
lot
of
times
when
we
get
into
issues
that
are
a
little
touchy
as
representative
elliot
said,
or
he
didn't
say
touchy,
but
you
know
what
I'm
saying
it's
something
that's
really
important,
because
what
the
thing
with
child
support,
I
know
we're
looking
at
the
parents,
but
what
this
affects
is
the
children,
the
most
and
the
kids
are
worth
it
to
figure
this
out.
D
To
pass
on
this
bill
today,
and
I
appreciate
all
of
the
work
that
the
sponsors
have
done,
I
understand
the
importance
of
the
issue.
I
have
a
very
specific
piece
of
this
bill
that
I'm
going
to
talk
to
you
both
about
that.
I
think
we
can
fix,
and
so
I'm
I'm
passing
right
now,
but
I
will
be
following
up
with
you
to
fix
that.
Thank
you.
D
K
Today,
it's
going
to
be
a
yes
to
move
it
forward,
but,
as
many
of
my
colleagues
have
noted,
I've
heard
from
numerous
family
law,
practitioners
and
and
one
family
court
judge,
and
they
have
some.
They
have
some
concerns
about
this
and
I'm
delighted
to
share
those
with
you,
because
they've
just
been
brought
to
my
attention
in
the
last
24
hours,
but
I
recognize
the
great
work
that
you're
doing
to
do
something
that
is
best
for
our
children.
So
it's
a
it's
a
yes
for
today,
but
I'll
talk
to
you
privately
about
this.
K
C
You
so
I've
talked
to
a
lot
of
family
judges
as
well,
and
my
parents
were
divorced
and
I'm
concerned,
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
I
think
the
committee
sub
handles
that
I'm
concerned
that
we
make
sure
there's
not
more
litigation
and,
most
importantly,
as
a
kid
who
was
young
when
that
was
going
on,
I
want
to
make
sure
the
kids
aren't
brought
to
court
being
put
in
the
middle
of
this.
I
don't
want
the
kids
to
be
able
to
be
testifying.
I
was
with
mom,
I
was
with
dad.
C
F
I'm
going
to
be
a
yes
for
today.
I
likewise
have
received
contact
from
some
family
court
judges.
I
think
some
of
the
concerns
are
expressed
by
other
members.
Are
the
same
that
I've
heard.
I
appreciate
the
conversations
with
chairman
massey
about
the
issues
as
well,
as
I
think
the
committee
said
may
be
addressing
those
things
so
yes
for
today,
and
and
I
hope
to
continue
the
conversation
with
the
chairman
and
the
co-sponsor
of
the
bill.
Thank
you.
G
Yes,
for
today,
with
a
brief
explanation,
go
ahead.
The
expert
I
I
agree
with
my
colleagues
there's
some
issues
that
need
to
be
worked
out
and
the
most
important
thing
as
a
family
law
practitioner
is
the
children
I'm
concerned
about
the
children
so,
and
they
have
no
say
so.
Thank
you.
Yes,.
A
A
While
they're
calculating
the
votes,
I
will
say
we
are
encouraging
judges
to
reach
out
to
us.
This
has
been
filed
for
a
while
we've
been
working
on
it
for
a
while.
A
lot
of
these
questions
came
about
in
the
last
24
hours
from
people
that
were
not
part
of
the
process.
The
judges
that
were
brought
into
the
process
who
had
those
same
concerns
after
hearing
it
said
wow.
I
understand
it
now
and
they're,
okay
with
it.
So
we
will
certainly
address
those
concerns.
The
standard
is
the
best
interest
of
the
children,
always
in
domestic
court.
A
I
will
want
to
give
a
shout
out
to
lexington
sowers
the
drafter
on
this
bill.
She
has
put
countless
hours
in
this
and
come
into
the
office
at
points
frazzled,
but
has
continued
to
persist
and
has
done
a
magnificent
job
with
a
very,
very
tough
situation,
and
so
I
just
want
to
give
a
shout
out
to
her
her
hard
work
on
this.
She
will
continue
to
work
on
it.
We
welcome
your
input
for
changes
because,
again
that's
why
it
doesn't
go
into
effect
until
2023
and
as
the
manual
is
created.
A
All
right
believe
it
or
not.
We
are
staying
on
track
of
time.
Next
we
will
call
house
bill
214
and
we
have
representative
johnson,
and
I
believe
he
has
some
guests,
including
the
chief
justice
who's
here
today
and
maybe
another
guest,
and
this
is
also
one
of
those
bills.
A
L
J
A
L
Such
a
comprehensive
plan
will
involve
significant
shifts
in
circuit
and
district
boundaries,
which
will
impact
not
just
judges,
but
also
certain
court
clerks
and
prosecutors
circuit
court
clerks
again
deferring
to
the
chief
justice
to
explain
details.
Such
a
comprehensive
plan
should
and
in
fact,
must
be
conducted
in
the
coming
years.
L
L
While
these
and
other
statistics
can
paint
a
picture
of
the
need
for
immediate
action,
I
believe
the
committee
will
benefit
by
putting
a
face
and
a
story
to
the
statistics.
That's
why
we've
asked
judge
lisa,
morgan,
family
court
judge
of
the
14th
circuit
to
testify
today.
Mr
chairman,
with
your
permission,
I
would
allow.
L
I
would
like
to
allow
justice
judge
morgan
to
give
her
testimony
answer
any
questions
that
there
might
be,
but
then
I
would
like,
if
possible,
to
allow
her
to
leave
because
frankly,
she's
got
to
get
back
to
work
and
get
on
get
on
the
bench.
M
A
M
Is
that
better
I'd
like
to
thank
the
chief
justice
for
all
of
his
work
as
well
as
so
many
people
who
have
been
a
process
of
of
trying
to
not
only
collect
all
of
this
data,
but
then
to
present
it
in
a
way
and
to
certify
the
need,
as
they
have
done
again
this
year,
for
real
reallocation
of
judicial
resources
and
for
their
invitation
for
me,
like
late
yesterday,
to
to
present
again
to
this
committee
to
be
to
represent
at
least
those
family
court
judges
that
would
be
served
by
this
bill
in
in
the
overwhelmed
districts
and
mostly
for
the
families
that
they
serve?
M
Just
very
briefly
a
little
bit
about
me.
I
took
the
event
in
2015
and
I'm
the
only
person
on
the
docket
for
the
for
the
job
this
fall.
So
god
willing,
I
will
be.
The
family
court
judge
there
through
at
least
january
of
2031.,
it's
hard
to
wrap
your
head
around
that.
Prior
to
that,
I
was
a
graduate
of
madisonville
north
hopkins,
high
school
murray
state
university
and
the
university
of
kentucky
college
of
law.
Long
before
that,
I've
always
wanted
to
be
attorney.
M
Excuse
me
and
then
decided
my
passion,
because
my
personal
background
was:
I
wanted
to
do
family
law,
even
though
that
is
not
what
most
attorneys
go
out
of
law
school
wanting
to
do.
But
it
is
my
absolute
passion
about
30
minutes
ago,
or
so
I
was
rushing
to
get
through
a
pretty
lengthy
domestic
violence,
docket
to
be
charited
off.
I'm
here
today
and
then
we'll
be
chatting
back
to
do
a
long
afternoon.
But
I
I
don't
say
all
that
to
bore
you
or
impress
you.
M
I
say
that
because
I
feel
like
everything
about
what
I'm
passionate
about
and
care
about,
leads
me
to
be
in
this
chair
here
today,
and
I
know
that
all
of
you
have
had
your
own
journeys
as
well.
To
have
you
be
in
the
chairs
that
you
are
in
and
having
just
watched
on
the
sidelines
for
the
first
time
ever
this
whole
political
system.
M
I
don't
think
that
you
all
would
be
here
if
you
did
not
go
through
campaigns
and
all
that,
if
you
didn't
really
care-
and
I
watched
last
year
when
this
a
similar
bill
went
through
but
unfortunately
was
not
passed
and
so
listen
to
watch
more
ket
than
I
probably
ever
have
and
listen
to
a
whole
lot
of
debates.
But
I
really
did
watch
a
lot
of
bipartisan
commitment
and
effort
to
improving
the
stability
of
families
and
protecting
our
most
vulnerable
citizens,
including
victims
of
abuse
and
child
victims
of
neglect
and
abuse.
M
And
we
all
know
what
you
know
how
bad
those
numbers
are
in
kentucky,
and
I
see
all
of
this
passion
that
goes
into
trying
to
craft
laws
and
come
up
with
multi-faceted
solutions
across
the
board
to
strengthen
family,
the
foster
care
systems
to
help
with
resources
and
and
with
our
on
the
cabinet
said,
and
I
know
that
you
all
hear
a
lot
of
bills
today
and
a
whole
lot
of
bills
throughout
this
session.
M
M
That
will
make
a
significant
effort
to
actually
see
an
overall
improvement
because
put
no
matter
how
good
the
law
is,
and
I
support
so
much
of
the
of
the
things
that
have
already
been
enacted
and
the
efforts
that
have
been
made
to
improve
the
whole
system
make
sure
things
get
through
in
a
timely
way,
making
sure
people
have
full
due
process
and
access
to.
You
know
a
court
system
and
have
courts
rendering
opinions
that
are
based
upon.
M
M
It
is
impossible,
and
so
I
think,
if
you
want
to
accomplish
all
those
overall
goals,
you
cannot
ignore
the
need
to
have
judges
to
have
enough
time
to
be
able
to
work
with
people
and
for
people
to
have
access
to
courts,
because
I
think
that
overall,
the
one
thing
that
might
make
the
broadest
difference
is
have.
If
people
have
timely
access
to
court
and
meaningful
access
to
court,
which
means
you
have
enough
time
to
sit
and
really
listen
to.
M
People
really
be
able
to
explain
your
rulings
to
make
the
best
drillings
that
you
can
so
that
they
can
buy
into
those.
Perhaps-
and
it's
not
just
a
piece
of
paper
that
they
walk
out
with
that
they
feel
heard.
It
reflects
better
on
the
judiciary
and
they
may
be
able
to
actually
walk
away
with
a
road
map
to
actually
see
improvements
in
each
individual
case.
And
if
we
have
issues
that
we
know
across
the
state
where
we
have
turnover
with
the
cabinet.
M
M
I
have
great
cabinet
workers
across
my
three
counties,
but
they
are
well
overwhelmed
and
if
I
cannot
bring
cases
back
on
for
a
review
quickly
enough
or
soon
enough
to
be
able
to
get
everybody
in
the
same
room
at
the
same
time
and
say
what's
going
on
who
who's
the
social
worker
now
and
what
can
we
do
and
is
this
kidding?
Is
this
kid
getting
the
right
assessments
getting
the
right
treatment?
How
are
we
moving?
You
know
towards
permanency.
M
I
would
have
an
opportunity
to
try
to
address
all
of
those.
You
know
overall
concerns
and
I
think
you'd
see
improvements.
Overall,
I
think
one
of
the
reasons
I
was
brought
here
is
just
try
to
give
kind
of
a
practical
sense
of
why
that's
so
difficult
in
the
cases
in
the
places
that
are
overloaded.
M
My
numbers,
I
think,
were
the
second
highest
in
terms
of
just
caseload,
but
I
also
cover
three
dockets
and
family
court
is
something
that
is
knows
no
boundaries.
It
does
not
matter
if
people
are
rich
or
poor
or
white,
or
black
or
race,
religion,
ethnicity
or
political
party
it
if
it
affects
it's,
probably
affected
someone.
Everyone
in
this
room
to
some
extent
or
or
another
and
people
need
to
be
able
to
get
quick
resolutions
to
those
things,
so
it
most
people
just
think
of
divorces.
M
It
is
divorce,
custody,
grandparent,
grandparents,
rights,
establishment
of
paternity
establishment
of
child
support
enforcement
of
child
support
adoptions
from
the
best
parts
of
our
job.
By
far
also
domestic
violence
and
interpersonal
violence
and
dating
violence
and
one
of
the
largest
areas
is
our
dependency
neglect
and
abuse
dockets
that
probably
takes
up
half
of
the
time
of
the
total
of
the
eight
or
nine
different
types
of
proceedings
that
we
have.
It
also
includes
any
status
cases,
so
those
are
children
who
are
either
runaways
or
beyond
school
or
parental
control
or
truancy.
M
All
of
those
different
types
of
proceedings,
if
you're
covering
three
different
counties,
also
have
statutorily
mandated
guidelines
for
when
they
have
to
be
heard
and
brought
into
court.
Domestic
violence
has
to
be
at
least
within
14
days.
If
you
remove
a
child,
if
cabinet
removes
a
child,
you
have
to
have
a
hearing
within
72
hours.
You
have
to
have
the
petition
within
10
10
days.
A
By
representative
peter
in
a
second
by
representative,
to
to
be
courteous
and
not
to
cut
off
the
chief
justice,
we're
gonna
let
him
if
he
would
like
to
make
a
few
comments
and
and
to
briefly,
I
know,
he's
put
a.
I
don't
know
if
he
did
the
powerpoint
or
somebody
did
the
powerpoint,
but
I
know
he's
prepared
to
speak
on
it.
So
we'll
let
you
and
I
appreciate
the
motion
as
well,
because
the
next
issue
is
going
to
be
a
a
pretty
intense
matter
that
needs
to
be
discussed,
but
chief.
A
L
You,
mr
chairman,
and
I,
mr
chief
jeffers
before
you
start,
if
I
might,
can
we
dismiss
judge
morgan,
so
she
can
go
get
on
the
bench.
A
A
M
J
I'll
forgo
the
motion,
as
you
may
have
read
my
lips,
I
will
forego
the
detailing
on
the
powerpoint.
In
fact,
I
feel,
like
I've
made
this
presentation
before
this
very
same
group
of
people.
J
So
here's
the
point.
Here's
the
point
we
have
judge
morgan
as
she
mentioned,
is
in
one
of
our
overloaded
family
courts
and
she's.
Second,
with
a
a
workload
of
1.67,
she
does
the
work
of
1.67
judges
as
best
she
can
in
three
counties
before
that.
The
number
one
most
most
egregious
in
this
commonwealth
is
knox
and
laurel
where
it
is
the
judge
there,
representative
lewis,
is
doing
the
work
of
2.24
judges,
2.24
judges,
how
in
the
world,
so
the
point
is
very
quickly.
J
J
So
this
has
been
a
a
long
road
to
get
here
and
a
great
deal
of
work.
Mr
chairman,
by
you
and
other
members
of
this
committee
working
with
us-
and
we
are
grateful
for
that-
but
but
the
time
has
come
to
start
the
process,
some
would
say
that
the
commonwealth
needs
a
comprehensive
statewide.
Well,
this
has
been
a
statewide
approach
and
it
is
comprehensive.
J
It's
limited
in
its
beginning,
there's
much
more
work
to
be
done,
but
the
witching
hour,
if
you
will,
is
2030
when
all
of
the
stars
align
using
mixing
several
metaphors
here,
but
all
of
the
things
will
come
together
so
that
judges
and
prosecutors
all
come
to
run
at
the
same
time
in
2030..
So
this
is
an
important
beginning
that
needs
to
happen
now.
Mr
chairman,
I
can't
urge
enough
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
I
just
want
to
be
respectful
of
your
time.
H
Thank
you
dj.
I
know
you've
been
working
on
this
a
long
time.
I
just
you
know
we
got
to
do
with
the
head
of
the
judicial
branch.
Here
we
got
the
judiciary
committee
in
the
legislature.
Why,
in
the
world
can't
this
be
fixed?
Why?
Every
year
we
come
back
with
this
same
issue.
I'm
hearing
I'm
hearing
stories
of
a
judge
tee
time
and
on
his
a
golf
course
at
one
o'clock
every
day,
and
then
we
hear
stories
of
the
judge
previous.
What
is
holding
this
tell
us
mere
mortals.
What's
holding
this
up.
J
J
You
know
I
can
get
one
side
passed
in
the
senate
and
it
doesn't
get
hearing
in
the
house
and
then
I
get
the
same
thing
happens
the
following
year
in
the
house
and
not
the
senate.
So
this
year
I
feel
like
lucy
in
the
football
here,
but
I'm
going
to
do
my
best
representative
bratcher,
with
your
support
to
to
get
this
thing
through
the
house
and
then
through
the
senate.
L
If
I
might
add
just
very
briefly,
this
is
a
huge
lift.
A
truly
comprehensive
plan
is
a
huge
lift
and
I
think
what
has
maybe
deterred
things
in
the
past
is
that
it's
so
huge
that
nobody
wants
to
take
that
first
step.
This
is
that
first
step,
this
is
re
is
resolving
critical
issues,
the
most
critical
issues
with
our
workloads
across
the
commonwealth.
This
actually
impacts
18
different
districts,
it
impacts,
32
different
counties
and
it
goes
across
the
length
and
breadth
of
the
commonwealth.
L
K
J
Yes,
cantrell
the
current
case
load
study.
There
are
16
district
judges
in
in
jefferson,
with
a
workload
current
workload
of
0.93,
with
one
being
the
norm
so
less
than
one,
and
with
the
reallocation
of
losing
one
district
judgeship
and
reallocating
that
to
some
other
place
in
the
commonwealth.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
would
note.
We've
talked
about
this
for
a
long
time
about
going
statewide,
but
I
practice
across
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
and
chief
you've
got
some
wonderful
judges
in
your
court
of
justice
and
our
court
of
justice,
and
it's
not
necessary
in
every
area
that
we
make
changes.
If
it
ain't
broke,
don't
fix.
C
It
is
the
kind
of
kind
of
mantra
that
a
lot
of
people
live
by
and
there's
a
lot
of
areas
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
that
work
just
fine
and
we
don't
need
to
address
those
areas.
So
I
think
this
is
a
statewide
approach.
It
goes
as
far
west
as
as
as
we've
got,
clint
caldwell
lyon
trig,
and
so
we
go
all
the.
M
C
West
and
we
go
all
the
way
to
floyd
county
in
the
east,
so
I
think
this
is
looking
at
the
entire
commonwealth
and
putting
the
and
making
changes
where
they're
most
necessary.
I
would
also
say
that
the
difficulty
here
in
doing
this
and
to
answer
representative
bratcher's
question
is,
I
don't
want
to
lose
a
judge
in
jefferson
county.
C
I
went
to
law
school
with
a
lot
of
the
judges
in
jefferson
county,
but
the
numbers
are
clear
that
jefferson
county
should
lose
a
judge.
When
you
look
at
the
overall
scope
of
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky.
I
don't
like
that.
I
don't
like
that.
Floyd
county
is
losing
a
second
judge
in
a
number
a
few
years
or
six
seven
years,
but
the
numbers
are
clear
that
that's
where
the
judges
are
most
underworked.
C
You
know
those
judges
would
disagree
with
that.
But
that's
what
the
numbers
say,
and
so
it's
very
difficult
because
you
know
one
thing
we
learned
in
redistricting
is:
when
you
take
an
unpopulated
creek
out
of
somebody's
district,
they
freak
out
because
they
love
that
creek.
They
don't
want
it
to
leave
it's
a
similar
thing
in
here.
So
this
is
very
difficult
matter
that
we're
dealing
with,
but
I
think
it's
extremely
important,
and
even
though
my
own
county
is
losing
a
judge
and
that's
a
difficult
vote,
I
think
it's
the
right
thing
to
do.
C
I
would
ask
just
a
highlighting
question,
and
that
is
the
constitution-
requires
the
supreme
court
when
we're
talking
about
trial,
judges,
district
and
circuit
cert
circuit
obviously
includes
family
that
there
be
a
certificate,
in
necessity
from
the
supreme
court.
It's
my
understanding
that
that
certificate
of
necessity
came
from
the
court
and
that
it
was
a
unanimous
request
of
the
legislature
for
the
changes
that
are
in
this
bill.
Is
that
correct.
J
Changes
that
are
they're
all
with
the
exception
of
one
they're,
all
part
of
the
certification
by
the
supreme
court.
We
we've
been
through,
you
know,
as
you
all
have
we've.
We
have
studied
the
numbers,
we've
debated,
we've
discussed
and
realized.
This
is
a
hard.
These
are
hard
votes
to
take,
but
we've
taken
it
and
and
the
constitution
requires
us
to
take
it
first
and
we
have.
A
I'm
going
to
make
one
comment
and
I'm
going
to
return
over
to
petrie
for
the
those
that
may
not
understand
that
are
either
in
the
audience
or
members
that
are
on
this
panel,
that
that
may
not
be
in
the
day-to-day
operations.
Understand
that
if
you
create
a
family
court
situation,
that's
going
to
give
relief
to
the
circuit
judge
and
to
the
district
judge
in
those
surrounding
areas.
A
So
we
don't
have
the
time
to
get
into
all
the
numbers
we've
reviewed
in
preparation
for
today,
but
obviously
that
changes
all
of
those
workloads
and
the
studies
that
we're
talking
about
and
we
have
to
make
that
align.
So
it's
not
just
a
matter
of
creating
one
court
and
then
just
disposing
the
other.
A
It's
because
you're
giving
relief
and
changes
in
other
areas
that
are
beneficial,
because
if
you
understand
the
system
and
those
of
us
that
do
that
kind
of
work,
understand
that
that
circuit
judges
like,
for
instance,
in
grant
carol
and
owen,
they
have
a
domestic
relations,
commissioner,
that
does
their
domestic
cases
right
now
they
don't
have
a
family
law
judge.
A
So
all
of
those
adjustments
have
to
be
made
on
these
numbers,
so
you're
not
looking
at
it
in
a
vacuum
you're
looking
at
it
as
these
numbers
are
changing
at
a
constant
rate
and
the
work
that
has
been
done
to
try
to
align
them
is
all
based
upon
data,
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
everybody
knew
that
representative
petery.
Thank
you,
chairman.
F
Very
quickly
and
representative
nemes
came
across
most
points
and
I'm
going
to
encourage
everyone
to
frame
the
issue.
This
way,
don't
ask:
am
I
gaining
a
judge,
or
am
I
losing
a
judge?
Am
I
gaining
one
in
my
area
or
losing
one
in
my
area?
I
would.
I
would
suggest
that
we
all
look
at
this
from
the
standpoint
of
it's
a
workload
study.
That's
a
public
certification.
It's
based
on
data
we've
asked
for
that.
It's
been
given
it's
been
given
more
than
once,
and
it's
based
on
workload.
F
Well,
why
am
I
talking
about
workload
because
all
we
should
be
considering,
I
think,
is:
are
our
constituents
being
served
effectively
through
the
judicial
system
and
if
you
have
judges
that
are
being
overworked,
then
they're?
Not
those
constituents
they're
in
are
not
being
served
and
if
they're
not
served
effectively,
there's
a
really
bad
thing
that
pops
out
going
to
the
court
system
in
a
lot
of
senses
is
voluntary.
F
If
it's
effective,
you
becomes
more
voluntary
and
you
avail
yourself
from
that
system.
If
it
becomes
not
ineffective
and
doesn't
respond
to
you
effectively,
then
in
heated
domestic
situations
and
in
heated
other
situations,
people
will
go
outside
the
court
system
to
resolve
disputes,
and
that
is
not
good
on
any
level.
F
Okay,
that's
ineffective,
use
of
taxpayer
resources
and
it
gives
a
bad
rep
to
judges
that
may
not
be
on
the
bench
because
they're
underworked,
so
my
judge,
my
district,
my
circuit,
my
family,
I
can
consider
those
irrelevant
look
at
the
data,
look
at
the
workload
and
think
about
services
to
constituents
and
whether
those
are
effective
and
meaningful
or
just
on
paper.
We
have
to
make
the
meaningful
workload.
I
support
the
bill.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
Seeing
no
further
questions,
we
have
a
motion
and
a
second
on
house
bill
214,
as
admitted
by
house
committee,
substitute
with
that,
madam
secretary,
please
call
the
roll
representative.
H
Yes,
I'd
like
to
explain
my
vote.
We
just
had
a
judge
before
us
that
said,
people
are
being
denied
their
day
in
court
and
then
we
hear
stories
about
I
you
know
I
love
my
jefferson
county
judges.
I
love
every
one
of
them,
but
we
lost
the
state
representative
in
redistricting,
so
if
it
comes
down
to
losing
a
judge
in
jefferson
county
or
wherever
in
the
commonwealth,
people
being
denied
their
day
in
court
because
of
the
backup
is
atrocious.
B
B
E
Thank
you
for
bringing
this
bill
dj
representative
johnson.
Well,
I
do
wish
that
we
were
looking
at
this
as
a
whole
of
redistricting.
E
N
A
K
I'm
glad
to
move
this
forward,
I'm
very
glad
that
warren
county's,
eighth
circuit
will
get
another
portion
of
a
circuit.
Judgeship,
that's
a
great
thing,
but
my
family
court
judges
and
attorneys
would
like
me
to
lift
up
that.
They
too
need
another
judge
that
they
are
backed
up
for
months
and
that
equal
justice
under
law
also,
you
know,
would
certainly
necessitate
them
getting
a
new
family
court
judge
as
well,
but
it's
a
great
bill,
I'm
happy
to
move
it
forward.
Representative.
B
E
A
A
I
confidently
believe
that
when
this
goes
through
the
process,
there
will
probably
be
some
changes
so
stay
tuned,
but
this
is
an
important
matter
with
that
being
said,
we
have
17,
yes,
votes,
one
no
vote
and
one
pass
so
house
bill
214,
as
amended
by
the
house
committee
substitute,
will
pass
the
favorable
expression
that
the
same
should
pass.
Thank
you,
gentlemen.
Thank.
L
A
She
is
the
reason
I
exist.
I
believe
thank
you,
gentlemen,
and
with
that
we'll
proceed
to
the
last
bill.
We
have
on
our
agenda
today,
which
is
house
bill,
313
representatives,
blanton
and
nemus
as
you're
coming
to
the
table.
I
will
tell
the
committee
that
there
is
a
committee
substitute
in
this
it's
in
your
folder
and
it
was
emailed
to
you
last
night.
A
I
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
john
blanton,
representative
from
the
92nd
district.
I
I
For
those
of
you
are
not
aware
of
what
they
do.
There
are
organizations,
some
non-profit,
some
for-profit
organizations
and
they
go
in
and
they
post
bail
for
individuals
within
the
system
that
may
not
have
the
means
to
be
able
to
post
their
own
bail
and
in
and
on
the
face
of
it.
It
sounds
like
a
very
good
thing.
I
C
C
Bail
is
good
incorrect.
In
crafting
this
bill,
we
have
spoken
with
prosecutors,
public
defenders,
judges,
attorneys,
citizens,
victims,
we've
even
spoken
with
the
bail
project
a
number
of
times,
and
I
think
it's
one
of
its
founders
will
be
testifying
today,
and
she
is
a
very
good
lady
who
is
trying
to
do
the
right
thing
and
we
support
much
of
her
effort.
C
C
That
is
not
even
though
people
say
you're
innocent
until
proven
guilty,
and
you
are
but
that,
but
our
system,
no
system
in
the
in
the
united
states,
including
the
federal
system,
releases
everyone
as
soon
as
they
get
booked
that
does
not
comport
with
public
protection.
We
did
have
this
bill.
Last
summer
we
filed
this
bill
the
second
week
of
session,
so
last
week's
incident
in
louisville
highlights
the
need
for
it,
as
representative
blanton
said,
but
it
is
not
the
catalyst
to
bringing
this
bill.
C
C
Human
judgment
represented
eliot
is
so
important
because
we
know
people
there
are
people
in
my
life
there
are
people
in
your
life
representing
maddox
that
you'd
probably
bail
out.
There's
probably
people
in
your
life
that
you
wouldn't
bail
out,
because
you
bring
the
human
judgment,
the
knowledge
of
the
individual.
Will
they
be
a
danger
to
themselves?
Will
they
be
a
danger
to
the
community?
Will
they
be
a
flight
risk
that
human
judgment
is
not
in
the
question
when
we're
talking
about
a
corporation,
an
entity?
C
It's
not
there.
Our
commonwealth
has
recognized
this
and
has
been
lauded
throughout
the
country
when
we
got
rid
of
bail
bondsmen
in
the
70s
one
of
the
main
reasons
we
got
rid
of
bill.
Bondsman
is
because
it
didn't
have
that
human
judgment
that's
tethered
to
the
public
safety,
that's
tethered
to
the
knowledge
of
the
flight
risk
and
the
danger
of
that
individual.
So
we
got
rid
of
bail
bondsmen.
This
is
the
next
step
in
protecting
our
public.
C
So
what
are
we
trying
to
do
we're
not
trying
to
outlaw
these
entities,
we're
trying
to
say
that
they
can't
bail
people
out
for
serious
offenses?
That's
it!
I
encourage
we
encourage
we
want
to
in.
We
want
to
increase
the
number
of
of
smaller
criminals
defendants.
I
should
say
that
are
bailed
out
by
individuals
and
entities.
We're
not
this
bill
doesn't
cover
that,
and
so
we've
said
and
there's
I'm
getting
in
explaining
the
bill.
We've
said
that
no
entity
has
to
be
human.
Being
no
entity
can
bail
out
someone
for
a
serious
crime.
C
C
That
line
ought
to
be
and
what
they
said
was
five
thousand
dollars.
They
also
had
two
other
recommendations.
They
said
under
no
circumstances
should
an
entity
be
able
to
bail
out
someone
that
is
charged
with
a
domestic
violence
offense.
Why
representative
banta?
Because
we
know
in
domestic
violence
situations,
there's
an
extra
concern
and
a
timeliness
concern
of
the
volatility
of
the
defendant?
C
C
The
entities
cannot
do
it
themselves
and
they
cannot
do
it
through
a
third
party.
They
can
build
something
out
through
a
third
party.
They
also
have
annual
reporting
to
the
legislature
and
to
the
public,
so
the
public
can
know
who
they're
bailing
out
who's,
who
their
donors
are,
where
their
expenditures
are
going.
If
you're
going
to
engage
in
this
activity
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky,
it
ought
to
be
open
to
the
public
for
inspection.
C
Finally,
and
I
think
this
is
an
interesting
addition
that
I've
spoken
with
a
number
of
legislators
on
this
committee
about-
and
it
came
from,
your
ideas
is
that
the
bill
that
is
posted
by
one
of
these
entities,
if
someone
that
they
bail
out
reoffends
representative
brancher,
the
money,
then
is
forfeited
to
the
new
victim.
C
Does
that
make
that
victim
whole?
No,
it
does
not.
It
does
not
make
the
family
hole
that
we're
about
to
talk
about,
but
it's
something
and
it's
especially
something
when
there's
a
property
crime,
not
when
there's
a
tragedy
that
we're
about
to
hear
about.
So
if,
if,
if
someone
reoffends
the
bond,
that's
posted
is
forfeited
to
the
new
victim.
C
So
that's
that's
the
bill
in
a
nutshell,
mr
chairman,
if
we
might
I'd
like
to
call
on
lois,
windhorst
and
and
others
and
I'm
gonna,
let
her
introduce
them
and
they
can
tell
their
particular
situation
and
and
highlight
the
need
for
this
bill
and
then
we'll
come
back
to
the
table
for
any
questions.
If
that's
okay,
mr
chairman,
that.
C
O
Hello,
I'm
going
to
be
fast.
My
name
is
lois
windhorst.
I
have
been
working
with
victims
since
1981,
I'm
the
founder
of
mothers
against
drunk
driving
here
in
kentucky.
O
O
O
He
does
not
hear
them
our
circuit
court.
Judges
do
not
have
the
availability
to
set
a
bond.
This
is
done
at
arraignment
in
district
court,
and
I
have
to
tell
you,
unfortunately
pre-trial
they
don't
give
them
all
the
information
you're
going
to
hear
about
a
case,
a
man
whose
record
started
in
2012
in
ohio
it
continued.
O
O
O
He
never
a
lot
of
the
cases
did
not
show
up
to
court
and
yet
a
bail.
What
are
they
called
bail
anyway
that
no,
the
the
the
person
that
does
the
bail
they
didn't
have
the
records?
I
was
also
told
that
they
will
call
a
family
member
or
talk
to
someone
in
the
community.
O
O
He
went
right
back
doing
the
same
things
he
did
before
he
was
arrested
in
february
march,
the
2nd
I
get
a
call
6
30
in
the
morning
my
phone
starts
ringing.
It's
people
calling
me
to
tell
me
there
had
been
a
horrible
crash
on
dixie,
which
I
was
aware
of
and
when
I
see
a
horrible
crash,
I
always
pray
that
it's
an
accident.
It's
not
a
crash
involving
impaired
driving
at
two
o'clock
in
the
afternoon.
O
O
Well,
my
research
kicked
in.
I
found
out
that
the
national
bell
project
I
found
the
death
of
a
woman
in
st
louis
after
they
posted
the
five
thousand
dollar
bond.
Her
husband,
who
was
her
abuser,
left
the
jail
she
didn't
know
he
was
out,
went
straight
to
the
house
beat
her
five
days
later.
She
died
since
september.
O
In
indianapolis,
two
victims
of
domestic
abuse
have
been
killed
by
their
offenders,
which
were
released
by
the
bell
project.
Mind
you
indiana
still
has
bail
bondsmen,
I
was
shocked.
I
was
dismayed
and,
more
importantly,
on
tuesday
night,
when
I
found
out
about
this,
I
attended
a
vigil
at
butler
high
school
in
honor
of
this
beautiful
young
lady,
the
other
bell
fund,
the
community
bell
fund
louisville
community
bell
fund.
O
O
They
spent
more
than
2
million
dollars
in
louisville
bailing
out
dozens
of
people
from
louisville's
jails.
Out
of
the
73
bailed
out.
During
a
several
week
period,
ending
august,
the
3rd
of
2020
37
of
those
people
were
charged
with
violent
crimes,
including
rape,
domestic
violence,
wanton
endangerment
and
murder.
Some
of
you
all
during
the
interim
heard
the
testimony
from
mrs
mack,
whose
brother,
terence
sheckle,
was
shot
in
the
back
of
the
head.
O
O
O
What
happens
to
the
bell
money?
I
mean
you
can't
find
these
records
the
national
arm
of
the
bail
project.
They
keep
very
good
records,
but
where
does
that
bail
money
go
when
somebody's
followed,
the
steps?
Does
it
go
back
in
to
the
fun
for
more
bells
or
where
does
it
go?
These
are
things
that
needs
to
be
looked
at.
If
we're
going
to
have
this
operating
in
kentucky,
I'm
asking
you
all
today.
O
P
Thank
you
for
listening
march
1st
2021
a
day
that
changed
our
family
forever.
P
P
It
was
not
five
minutes
later
after
her
brother
was
dropped
off
that
my
daughter
would
be
hit
head
on
by
a
wrong
way.
Speeding,
stolen
truck
the
driver
of
that
truck,
refused
to
render
aid
and
tried
to
flee
the
scene,
but
was
wrestled
down
by
several
individuals
who
just
so
happened
to
be
walking
in
the
area
at
the
time.
P
She
had
a
very
bright
future
ahead
of
her
and
was
so
excited
for
the
next
season
of
life,
madeleine
enjoyed,
helping
people
and
being
a
helping
hand
to
anyone
that
needed
it.
My
girl
kept
a
very
busy
academic
and
extracurricular
schedule
and
also
found
time
to
build
a
community
with
some
local,
south
and
friends
at
our
local
chick-fil-a.
P
P
Madeleine's
smile
always
lit
up
in
whatever
room
that
she
was
in
a
year
after
her
passing,
I
am
reminded
of
just
how
much
joy
and
happiness
that
smile
and
positive
energy
brought
to
those
she
knew
and
loved
whether
it
was
the
most
important
individual
in
the
room
or
the
individual.
That
very
few
talked
to
my
madeline
was
a
friend
to
all
one
week
away
from
the
one-year
anniversary
of
my
daughter's
passing.
P
P
Nonetheless,
this
criminal
and
liability
to
society
was
released,
as
he
was
bailed
out
by
the
louisville
bell
project,
with
no
money
out
of
his
own
pocket
and
no
accountability.
This
man
has
a
file
that
was
multiple
pages
long.
No
background
information
or
check
was
placed
on
this
man,
nor
were
the
programs
set
up
or
enforced
to
ensure
that
he
would
not
go
back
out
and
repeat
his
decisions,
which
he
did.
P
P
P
P
P
N
N
N
Now
all
I
have
are
memories.
I
would
never
forget
the
times
it
says
she
would
make
me
laugh
when
I
needed
it.
The
late
night
car
rides
when
we
talked
about
our
day
the
times
when
we
would
work
together
at
chick-fil-a,
but
I
will
now
have
to
live
the
rest
of
my
life,
knowing
that
those
memories
are
all
I
have
as
she
is
not
with
no
longer
here.
N
The
decision
of
the
bell
project
lending
a
felon
out
of
custody
with
no
supervision,
has
changed
the
phrase
normal
life
in
my
life,
my
family,
and
I
will
never
be
the
same
after
the
passing
of
my
sister,
my
family,
the
community
we
live
in
and
our
state
will
never
get
to
see
the
love
and
light
I
knew
her
to
be,
and
that
will
forever
be
our
loss
as
a
family,
community
and
state.
Thank
you.
A
All
right,
we
do
have
several
folks
that
have
signed
up
to
speak
and
we'll
monitor
that
carefully.
We
do
have
some
time.
First,
on
our
sign
in
sheet,
we
have
carrie
cole
from
the
bail
project.
Q
Good
morning,
chairman
massey
and
members
of
the
committee,
my
name
is
carrie
cole
and
I'm
the
operations
manager
of
the
louisville
site
of
the
bale
project.
I
grew
up
in
louisville
and
work
here,
I'm
a
social
worker
by
training
and
I
deeply
understand
the
social
challenges
that
your
constituents
face.
Q
I
was
one
of
the
first
employees
for
our
louisville
site
and
our
current
team
in
louisville
are
your
constituents
living
and
engaging
with
their
respective
kentucky
communities?
We
are
just
as
invested
in.
You
are
in
making
sure
that
kentucky
is
a
safe
place
where
all
of
its
residents
can
thrive.
The
bail
project
is
a
national
non-profit.
With
the
mission
to
end
cash
bail.
Since
2018,
we
have
provided
free
bail,
assistance
to
nearly
4
000
kentuckians
and
28
counties
statewide.
Q
In
addition
to
posting
bail,
we
provide
court
reminders,
travel
assistance
and
connections
to
social
services
like
temporary
housing,
employment
assistance
and
behavioral
health
services.
Our
clients
have
returned
to
over
90
of
their
court
dates.
The
bail
project
is
a
sunset
organization
and
our
goal
is
to
put
ourselves
out
of
business.
We
want
to
end
the
use
of
cash
bail
so
that
our
revolving
bail
fund
is
not
necessary
in
kentucky.
Q
We
are
opposed
to
house
bill
313
because
it
would
limit
it
would
limit
the
number
of
poor,
kentuckians
charitable
bail
organizations
can
serve
by
restricting
the
amount
of
bail
to
5000
or
less,
which
means
that
a
poor
person
presumed
innocent
for
a
low-level
misdemeanor,
for
example,
will
remain
in
jail
if
their
bail
is
set
above
that
amount.
Meanwhile,
wealthy
people
charged
with
more
serious
offenses
and
high
bail
amounts
will
be
able
to
buy
their
freedom.
This
does
not
protect
public
safety.
Q
Additionally
house
bill
313
will
prohibit
charitable
bail
organizations
from
posting
bail
from
anyone
charged
with
domestic
or
dating
violence,
or
anyone
under
civil
court
order
for
involuntary
treatment
for
substance
use
disorder.
Not
only
does
this
prohibition
undercut
the
fundamental
right
to
be
presumed
innocent,
regardless
of
the
charge,
but
once
a
judge
determines
what
the
what
price
it
must
be
to
be
paid
for
a
person
to
be
released
from
jail.
It
doesn't
matter
who
posts
the
bond
a
relative
church
or
a
community
bail
fund.
Our
u.s
currency
is
the
same
as
a
grandmother's.
Q
Finally,
house
bill
313
sets
a
reporting
requirement
for
a
charitable
organization
that
it
does
al
that
it
does
not
also
impose
on
other
individuals
and
groups
who
post
bail
house
bill.
313
also
requires
charitable
bail
organizations
to
share
information
about
its
donors,
which
is
unfair
and
illegal,
as
determined
by
the
u.s
supreme
court
and
americans
for
prosperity
versus
banta
in
2020.,
501
c
3
organizations
are
already
already
regulated
by
the
state
and
federal
government.
Q
This
bill
does
not
ensure
public
safety
by
limiting
our
services.
In
fact,
it
does
the
opposite
by
ensuring
more
kentuckians
will
be
subject
to
the
harms
that
come
from
remaining
in
jail
before
their
trial.
It
also
ensures
that
taxpayers
will
continue
to
foot
the
bill
to
maintain
kentucky's
overcrowded
jails.
Q
We
are
all
aware
of
the
increased
urgency
that
lawmakers
are
feeling
to
address
elevated
crime
levels.
We
feel
that
urgency
too,
but
we
must
be
careful
not
to
legislate
from
the
fringes,
the
stories
that
have
been
in
the
news,
the
ones
that
target
the
target
charitable
bail
organizations
over
emphasize
tragedy
and
focus
on
rare,
tragic
cases.
This
does
not
mean
that
these
events,
when
they
occur,
are
no
less
heartbreaking,
but
they
are
rare.
Q
The
urgency
of
our
concerns
must
be
focused
on
the
elimination
of
cash
bail
and
the
reform
of
the
pre-trial
system
altogether,
something
the
bail
project
is
experienced
in,
as
we
have
been
developing
a
model
of
robust
pre-trial
services
and
supports
that
can
be
adopted
across
this
country.
The
bill
projects
intervention
is
designed
to
enhance
the
public
safety
of
the
communities
in
which
we
operate,
not
undermine
it,
and
we
are
doing
that.
We
have
the
experience
and
we
have
the
evidence.
Q
A
Seeing
no
questions
of
this
witness,
we
will
have
shimmy.
Is
it
shamika
and
I'm
not
gonna,
try
to
stab
your
last
name?
What's
your
last
name?
A
R
Wrote
a
statement
because
of
that.
Thank
you
good
afternoon.
I
want
to
thank
you,
chairman
massey
and
all
of
the
members
of
the
committee.
My
name
is
shamika
parrish
wright
and
I
am
testifying
before
you
today
for
my
personal
capacity.
I
have
lived
and
worked
in
kentucky
for
more
than
20
years.
I
am
a
constituent
I
am
a
louisville
resident.
This
is
my
home.
R
This
issue
of
bail
is
close
to
my
heart
because
I
have
suffered
from
it
personally
when
I
was
18
years
old,
I
was
getting
ready
to
start
college.
I
got
engaged
and
I
had
a
young
daughter.
One
night
things
went
all
wrong.
My
ex-fiancee
fought
me
put
his
hands
on
me.
While
I
was
trying
to
clean,
I
thought
that
I
was
going
to
lose
my
life.
I
fought
back.
R
R
When
the
police
came,
I
told
them
everything
that
had
happened.
I
had
never
been
arrested.
I
did
not
realize
that
I
was
signing
my
own
warrant
as
I
wrote
down
to
what
happened.
I
was
handcuffed
and
taken
to
jail.
I
spent
two
days
in
jail
before
ever.
Seeing
a
judge.
Little
did.
I
know
my
ordeal
was
just
starting.
My
ex-fiance,
on
the
other
hand,
was
charged
with
domestic
violence.
R
R
I
didn't
have
the
money,
neither
did
any
of
my
loved
ones.
I
was
charged
with
a
felony
and
was
told
that
I
was
facing
prison
if
I
went
to
trial
and
lost.
I
didn't
know
what
to
do.
I
had
a
younger
daughter
at
home
and
my
college
education
ahead
of
me.
I
saw
my
life
falling
apart
before
my
eyes,
like
so
many
do
in
that
situation.
R
R
All
I
wanted
was
to
get
out
and
see
my
daughter
I
wanted
to
be
home.
I
knew
this
plea
would
give
me
a
criminal
record
that
would
follow
me
for
the
rest
of
my
life,
but
at
that
moment
I
felt
I
had
no
other
choice
and
that's
the
choice.
Countless
people
make
countless
people
make
in
kentucky
every
single
day
because
of
that
of
the
cash
bill
system.
R
If
I
had
money
to
pay
my
bail
or
if
there
was
a
charitable
bail
organization
available
to
support
me,
I
could
have
gone
home
worked
with
a
lawyer
to
fight
my
case.
I
could
have
avoided
conviction.
I
would
not
have
had
a
criminal
record,
but
because
I
was
poor,
I
did
not
get
my
due
process.
The
presumption
of
innocence
only
existed
on
paper.
R
R
R
Eliminating
cash
bail
should
not
be
an
issue
of
blue
or
red
democrat
or
republican.
It's
an
issue
of
what's
wrong
and
what's
right
and
putting
a
price
tag
on
a
presumption
of
innocence
is
simply
wrong.
Restricting
charitable
bill
organizations
is
irrational.
It
is
the
equivalent
of
limiting
food
banks
when
the
real
poverty
problem
is
poverty
and
hunger.
I
respectfully
ask
you
not
to
react
to
recent
media
reports
with
a
heavy
hand
and
instead
take
a
thoughtful
approach
to
our
shared
concerns.
R
The
vast
majority
of
people
out
on
bail
go
to
work
school
return
home
to
their
families
without
incident.
Their
success
stories
like
mine,
do
not
make
it
on
the
news
I
was
lucky
lucky
in
my
life.
Many
people
would
not
have
that
same
experience.
Incarceration
is
traumatizing.
It
forces
people
to
make
decisions;
they
would
not
otherwise
make
to
protect
their
physical
bodies
and
their
minds
to
protect
their
families.
If
you
enact
this
legislation,
you
will
separate
single
mothers
from
their
children.
R
You
would
drive
those
separated
children
into
trauma
and
foster
care,
you'll
force,
employment,
instability
in
housing
and
security.
You'll
increase
the
likelihood
that
people
will
not
be
able
to
escape
the
grip
of
a
criminal
legal
system.
Involvement.
Academic
research
bears
all
of
this
out,
and
I
know
from
my
own
experience
and
my
experience
speaking
with
hundreds
of
directly
impacted
people
that
this
is
true,
don't
pass
this
bill.
Instead,
I
encourage
the
committee
to
take
the
time
to
collect
and
analyze
the
data
to
learn
more
about
our
criminal
legal
system.
R
R
You
know
we
need
really
complete
information
that
deals
with
the
complete
fiscal
and
racial
impact
statements
before
passing
legislation
that
will
not
effectively
solve
the
complex
issues
facing
our
our
communities.
Vote
no
on
house
bill,
313,
thank
you
and
as
a
mother
of
six
and
a
grandmother
of
three,
I
am
sorry
that
that
happened.
I
didn't
I've
never
met
you.
I
don't
live
far
from
butler.
My
daughter
worked
at
chick-fil-a
too.
This
hits
me
home,
but
if
it
was
even
in
my
children,
I
would
be
standing
here
standing
on
our
work.
R
A
All
right,
we
have
two
more
people
signed
up
and
I'm
gonna
get
you
out
of
here
by
1
45,
so
we're
going
to
continue
to
proceed
since
we've
already
heard
from
one
person
from
the
bail
project
I'll
call
them.
Last
I'm
going
to
hear
from
chamel,
helm,
chanel,
helm,
sorry,
I'm
reading
off
the
best.
I
can
and
please
come
forward
ma'am
and
identify
yourself
and
you
may
proceed.
Thank
you
so
much.
S
Before
I
even
get
started,
I
do
want
to
say
that,
even
though
we
didn't
bail
them
out,
it
has
nothing
to
do
with
that.
Nobody
should
ever
lose
somebody
in
their
family
you're,
absolutely
correct,
but
you
will
understand
what
the
louisville
community
bell
fund
does
and
that's
what
I
want
to
lead
with.
We
were
never
contacted
about
this
bill,
nor
our
work
from
anyone
who
has
put
this
bill
together.
S
So
is
it
yes,
it's
green
look
closer.
It
moves
this.
Oh
okay,
it's
kind
of
heavy!
Thank
you
so
much
so
I
am
a
bit
confused
as
to
why
there's
an
over
resounding
notion
that
those
things
did
happen.
Community
bell
funds
have
been
around
for
decades.
They
did
not
just
erupt.
All
of
a
sudden.
There
are
not
just
two
types
of
bail
fronts
that
are
in
kentucky
operating
right
now
there
are
three
others
that
also
take
care
of
specific
crimes
and
how
they
happen.
S
Community
bail
funds
do
not
only
bail
people
out,
we
also
bail
out
the
community,
so
there
are
very
much
injustices
that
we
talk
about
that
not
only
deal
with
the
criminal
justice
system.
They
also
deal
with.
Why
people
create
crime
in
the
first
place
and
as
a
west
end
louisville
resident
a
historic
western
louisville
resident?
S
I
can
still
state
to
you
that
there
are
other
things
that
we
have
built
out
in
our
community.
Besides
people,
I
just
want
to
name
those
things
because
nobody
has
asked
us
about
those,
and
you
are
assuming
too
much.
We
have
created
a
grocery
store
because
we
live
in
a
food
apartheid
where
fresh
foods
are
not
available
to
over
60
000
people
in
the
west
end
of
louisville.
S
S
We've
also
bought
an
emergency
housing
house,
because
people
do
not
have
housing
and
a
housing
crisis
in
the
west
end
of
louisville
blighted
neighborhoods
and
we
house
them.
We
don't
send
them
through
red
tape.
We
house
them
so
yes,
I
do
agree
that
this
bill
is
ill
purpose,
because
the
information
in
the
bill
is
already
public.
S
S
What
the
community
bail
fund
does,
though,
is
build
support
systems
for
those
folks
who
are
not
able
to
have
support.
There
are
people
who
have
way
harsher
crimes
and
those
folks
need
things.
Some
folks
involve
drugs,
some
folks
involve
violence,
and
if
we
are
able
to
create
that
support
plan
with
them
with
licensed
professionals,
social
workers
with
licensed
professional
therapists
with
licensed
professional
lawyers
who
we
detail
their
crime
with
which
we
do
we
build
that
out.
If
we
can't
do
that,
then
we
don't
bail
them
out.
S
They
were
set
by
a
judge
and
they
are
being
completed
by
that
judge.
If
there's
an
issue
with
bail,
then
you
take
it
up
with
the
judge,
but
I'm
also
concerned,
I'm
also
concerned
at
how
murderers
can
have
lower
bail
than
people
who
have
drug
offenses
or
people
who
are
not
violent.
That's
the
question
at
hand
right
now.
S
S
I'm
not
saying
that
this
always
correctly,
but
we
work
too
hard
to
do
that.
What
has
happened
to
us
since
2020
is
tons
tons
of
assaults
on
the
people
who
work
here.
Data
analysts,
social
workers,
community
organizers,
we
are
mothers,
we
are
residents,
we
have
been
stalked,
we
have
been
chastised,
we
have
been.
I
mean
like
this
is
almost
sabotaging
itself.
S
I
do
want
to
read
something
else
before
I
leave
because
there's
another
issue
at
hand
that
we're
talking
about
and
too
many
folks
are
not
making
enough
noise
about
what
is
happening
in
louisville
metro
department
of
corrections.
Right
now,
on
november
29
2021
kenneth
hall
was
found
unresponsive
on
december
3rd
2021
rakita
smith
was
found
unresponsive
on
december
4th
2021
stephanie
dunbar.
Another
woman
was
found
by
suicide
on
january,
2nd
2022
gary
wither
was
found
by
suicide
on.
S
On
the
medical
floor
in
february
6
a
week
before,
quintess
brown
committed
his
crime,
leslie
starnes
was
found
by
hung
by
himself
right.
People
are
dying
in
lmdc
and
nobody
is
calling
attention
to
what
is
happening
at
lmdc,
and
we
are
worried
about
the
wrong
things.
I'm
not
off
topic,
because
that's
part
of
the
reason
the
louisville
community
bail
fund
exists.
S
A
G
Hello,
my
name
is
alicia
richardson
members
of
the
community
community
committee.
Thank
you
for.
Yes,
I'm
sorry!
Yes,
members
of
the
committee
committee,
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
share
my
experience
with
you
today.
My
name
is
alicia
richardson,
I'm
a
3
34
year
old
business
owner,
proud
mother
of
three
children,
and
I
lived
and
worked
in
louisville
for
nearly
20
years,
but
I'm
originally
from
cleveland
ohio
in
2019.
I
had
one
of
the
worst
experience.
I've
ever
had
one
night
after
a
long
day
at
work.
G
I
was
hanging
out
with
some
friends
and
having
a
drink.
Then
a
dear
friend
of
mine
called
me
in
a
friend's
state.
She
was
in
a
situation
of
domestic
violence
and
she
desperately
needed
my
help.
She
was
in
panic
and
asked
me
to
please
come
and
get
her,
so
I
got
in
my
car
in
hindsight.
I
should
have
never
gotten
to
the
car,
but
right
there,
and
then
I
didn't
know
what
else
to
do
as
I
was
driving.
I
realized
I
wasn't
feeling
well
so
I
pulled
over
into
a
gas
station.
G
Then
by
accident
I
ran
into
a
gas
pump.
The
police
came
and
I
was
immediately
arrested.
I
don't
even
want
to
talk
about
the
experience
when
I
was
locked
up.
I
was
taken
to
a
jail
and
held
on
a
bill
that
I
could
not
afford.
I
didn't
want
to
do.
I
didn't
know
what
to
do.
Like
many
people
in
our
community,
I
was
living
paycheck
to
paycheck.
G
I
had
just
graduated
the
louisville
urban
league
kentucky
ky
bills
program.
I
didn't
have
an
emergency
savings
or
anything
like
that.
I
was
worried
about
my
kids
and
my
mother,
who
had
recently
suffered
from
two
aneurysms
on
the
same
day
and
they
all
depended
on
me.
Jail
is
a
scary
place.
I
didn't
wish
this
experience
on
anyone.
G
I
was
there
for
two
days.
Don't
get
me
wrong,
I
believe
in
the
justice
process,
I
believe
in
taking
responsibility,
but
you
just
don't
put
a
person
in
jail
before
they
get
their
day
in
court.
You
don't
say
someone
is
presumed
innocent
and
then
set
bill.
You
know
they
can't
pay.
Fortunately,
the
bail
project
learned
about
my
case
and
they
provided
me
with
bill
assistance.
I
was
grateful
that
I
could
go
home
to
my
children
and
help
take
care
of
my
mom
to
this
day.
My
case
is
still
pending.
G
G
You
know
the
case,
a
lot
of
cases
just
wasn't
being
seen
or
what
I
don't
know
what
was
going
on
waiting
for
a
resolution
since
my
release,
I
have
started
my
own
construction
company
and
I
am
successful
with
that.
I
am
in
the
russell
business
tech,
incubator
and
I'm
also,
I
just
got
accepted
to
the
ufk
business
accelerator,
minority
accelerator
and
I
am
doing
well
providing
for
my
family
while
attending
court
as
required
to
fight
my
case
and
take
responsibility,
because
I
was
drinking
that
night.
G
G
I've
attended
every
court
date
as
acts
2
with
the
help
of
the
court
reminders
and
transportation
from
the
bail
project,
and
I'm
thankful
for
the
work
that
they
do.
The
justice.
The
justice
system
should
not
treat
people
differently
based
on
how
much
money
they
have.
We
all
have
a
right
to
a
due
process,
a
right
to
get
our
day
in
court,
a
right
to
be
presumed
innocent,
and
this
should
not
depend
on
the
size
of
your
bank
account.
We
need
to
fix
the
cash
bill
system
until
then,
charities
like
the
bail
project
are
needed.
G
They
level
the
playing
field.
For
folks.
Like
me,
this
bill
will
hurt
people
living
in
poverty
as
it
is
nearly
half
of
the
people
in
jails
in
kentucky.
Are
there
awaiting?
I
mean
awaiting
their
court
dates
because
they
can't
afford
a
bill.
I
ask
you
to
please
vote
no
on
this
bill.
I
also
would
like
to
say
I
would
like
to
give
your
your
family
family,
my
condolence.
G
G
So
I
I
would
like
to
say
I
don't
necessarily
think
that
it's
people
getting
bailed
out
by
the
bell
project
and
that's
why
they're
repeating
their
offenses
people
have
the
choice
to
get
out
of
jail
and
do
something
different
like
I
am
and
if
they
choose
not
to
that,
they
should.
The
judge
should
give
them
more
time
or
something
a
higher
bail.
G
But
I
don't
think
the
bail
project
should
be
canceled
just
because
other
the
people
that's
being
released
are
making
bad
choices
because
there's
more
people,
that's
making
good
choices
than
that.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
You
ma'am
and
we're
going
to
give
the
sponsors
the
last
word
I
will
say
I
do
apologize
for
the
last
moment
in
the
sense
that
it
took
some
time
and
we
are
not
going
to
allow
disruptive
witnesses
in
this
arena.
It's
just
not
going
to
be
permitted.
We
are
here
for
civil
discourse
and
we'll
do
it
with
professionalism
or
we
won't
do
it
at
all.
With
that
sponsors
you
may
address
the
committee.
C
I
want
to
thank
you
there's
a
lot
of
comments
that
were
made
today
about
the
the
jail
in
louisville.
We've
had
six
deaths
in
a
couple
months.
That's
serious
issues
and
we're
we.
I
want
to
work
with
anybody
on
that
representative,
black
brancher
and
I
and
others
have
contacted
the
corrections
officers
there
and
we're
looking
to
see
what
we
can
do.
I
want
to
work
with
anybody
on
that
there's
serious
problems
on
there.
I
wanted
to
say
that
quickly,
this
bill
is
not
a
panacea.
It
does
not
fix
all
problems.
C
There's
no
doubt
about
that,
but
we
are
charged
with
protecting
public
safety.
Our
people
and
our
constitution
requires,
unfortunately,
requires
judges
to
set
money
bail
for
anybody,
except
for
those
who've
char
who've
been
charged
with
a
capital
offense
representative
blanton,
and
I
are
working
on
something
because
we
don't
like
that.
C
We're
working
on
a
bill
that
is
being
drafted
now,
it's
in
the
drafting
stages
to
amend
our
constitution,
to
allow
our
judges
to
follow
most
other
states
and
the
federal
government,
and
not
require,
and
not
posting,
not
setting
a
bail
for
people
who
are
a
danger
to
the
community.
There
will
be
a
hearing
like
there
is
in
federal
court,
mr
chairman,
as
you
know,
and
the
council
on
both
sides
and
prosecutor
have
an
opportunity
to
make
the
case
that
there
should
not
be
a
bail
set.
This
young
man,
probably
shouldn't,
have
had
a
bell
set.
C
Maybe
I
don't
know
I
wasn't
in
the
there
wasn't
a
hearing,
but
the
point
is
we
shouldn't
have
to
have
bail
for
very
dangerous
people.
Representative
blanton,
and
I
are
looking
to
change
that.
However,
the
people
of
kentucky
in
the
in
our
constitution
require
bill
to
be
set
and
when
there's
bill
to
be
set,
we
cannot
allow
an
entity
to
make
a
mockery
of
it.
C
We
cannot
allow
an
entity
to
make
a
mockery
of
it
if
we're
going
to
have
cash
bill,
and
I
don't
necessarily
like
that,
but
that's
the
law
by
our
constitution,
then
we
have
to
have
cash
bill
if
a
judge
set
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
a
man
who
tries
to
assassinate
someone.
That
is
not
enough,
that's
not
appropriate
for
an
entity
to
come
in
and
bail
them
out.
It's
also,
in
my
view,
not
appropriate
for
a
rich
man
to
bail
himself
out.
C
That's
why
representative
blatt
and
I
are
trying
to
fix
that,
but
we
can't
fix
that
with
the
bill.
It
has
to
be
a
constitutional
amendment
house
bill.
313
is
a
step
forward
in
making
and
improving
the
bail
system,
and
I
think
it
is
necessary.
It's
highlighted
by
last
week's
incident,
but
even
if
last
week's
incident
didn't
occur,
this
is
necessary.
We
filed
it
before
then
we
had
hearings
on
it
last
summer,
mr
chairman,
I
know
that
representative
blanton
wants
to
close,
but
the
father
wants
to
take
10
seconds
if
he
could.
H
I
just
wanted
to
say
you
know
you
heard
their
stories
about
these
people
that
needed
to
get
bailed
out
because
they
were
doing
first-time
offenses
and
stuff.
But
what
about
the
guy
that
killed
my
daughter?
It
wasn't.
It
was
multiple
multiple
over
years
and
years.
They
did
no
background
check,
they
didn't
know
accountability,
they
bailed
him
out
and
he
killed
my
daughter.
H
H
A
H
D
O
B
D
Pass
today,
I
I
fully
believe
the
sponsors
and
their
intent
and
in
improving
our
public
safety.
I
want
to
thank
madeline's
family
for
coming
and
sharing
their
story
with
us
and
I'm
very,
very
deeply
sorry
for
your
loss.
I
do
have
significant
due
process
concerns
with
this
bill
that
I
will
discuss
with
the
sponsors
and
I'm
glad
to
see
and
hear
that
you
are
working
on
a
bill
that
I
think
addresses
the
actual
issue
that
we
need
to
figure
out
in
this
state,
which
is
bail
being
set,
how
it's
done
in
conditions
of
release.
L
My
vote,
mr
chairman.
Yes,
first
of
all,
I
want
to
say
to
the
family.
Thank
you
all
for
coming
as
a
dad,
I'm
just
my
heart
goes
out
to
you.
I
can't
imagine,
I
think
it's,
it's
literally
don't
make
me
tear
up
thinking
about
it,
but
thank
you
for
for
coming
to
the
sponsors.
You
guys.
I
know
you
both
be
men
of
integrity.
L
I
know
you're
trying
to
do
the
right
thing.
We
heard
a
lot
of
testimony
today
about
the
broken
bail
system
and
it's
broken
and
and
unfortunately,
though
guys,
I
don't
think
this
bill
fixes
it.
I
think
you
know
bad
facts,
make
bad
law,
and-
and
I
think
this
is
a
reaction
to
some
bad
facts,
but
I'm
gonna
be
a
no
but
I'd
love
to
work
on
it.
On
the
issue
to
see
if
we
can't
fix
what
is
clearly
a
broken
thing
for
our
state.
K
My
vote
briefly
today
it's
a
pass,
but
I
want
to
express
to
madeleine's
family
my
deepest
sympathies
and
I
cannot
imagine
what
you're
going
through.
I
want
to
thank
the
sponsors
for
bringing
this
bill
forward
and
for
the
thoughtful
discussion,
I'm
very
happy
to
hear
that
you're
working
on
that
constitutional
amendment.
It
is
much
needed.
I
look
forward
to
seeing
that,
but
I
also
share
some
concerns
raised
by
representative
carney
and
mccoy.
So
today
I'm
a
pass
and
I
look
forward
to
speaking
with
you
more
about
it.
D
Chairman,
I
I
just
want
to
say
to
the
family:
my
daughter
was
a
varsity
cheerleader
at
butler.
In
2019
we
pushed
the
gofundme
for
your
family
when
madeline
was
murdered.