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A
All
right:
hey,
we
have
a
quorum
in
our
duly
constituted
to
do
business
for
point
of
reference.
We
will
not
be
hearing
House
Bill
446
this
morning
as
part
of
our
agenda.
First
up
on
our
agenda,
though
we
do
have
House
Bill,
3.
I'm,
going
to
ask
Senator
Carroll
to
come
forward
and
we've
got
a
number
of
people
signed
up
to
testify
on
this,
so
that
everybody
knows
this
is
how
this
is
going
to
work
got
a
lot
of
get
to
get
through
in
an
hour,
Senator
Carroll.
You
have
10
minutes
top
end.
A
The
opposition
I'll
give
you
10
minutes
top
end.
I'm
gonna
give
Senator
Carroll
five
minutes
to
respond
and
I'm
cutting
everybody
off.
So
please
be
thinking
about
that
now
as
you
as
we
advance
this.
So
with
that
there
is
a
committee
substitute
can
I
have
a
motion
on
the
sub.
D
A
E
You
Mr
chairman
and
members
I
appreciate
you
all
hearing
this
bill
today.
This
is
the
third
Bill
related
to
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
that
has
come
before
this
committee
and
I'll
run
through
the
provisions.
Briefly,
the
bill
requires
additional
Communications
between
the
CDW,
a
youthful
offenders,
school
district
and
the
fair
team
related
to
Diversion
agreements.
E
The
bill
establishes
accountability
to
the
court
for
the
fair
team
to
act
in
a
timely
manner.
In
truancy
cases,
it
establishes
accountability
for
a
child's
parents.
Failure
to
cooperate
with
the
diversion
agreement
related
to
truancy.
This
includes
referrals
to
the
cabinet
or
to
the
county
attorney's
office
for
prosecution.
Underline
lawful
transaction
with
the
minor
third
degree
sets
parameters
for
mandatory
Detention
of
any
child
accused
of
committing
a
violent
offense
under
krs-532-200,
and
this
provision
goes
into
effect,
July,
1
2024..
E
This
has
been
delayed
due
to
concerns
about
staffing
issues
within
Juvenile
Detention
facilities
and
I
would
add
that
this
includes
assessments
by
a
mental
health,
professional
and
follow-up
Services.
The
legislation
permits
visitation
of
these
use,
youth
by
individuals
representing
various
Community
groups
during
this
detention
period,
which
may
lead
into
transition
Services
If,
the
child
is
released
from
from
detention,
establishes
postage
adjudication
Mental,
Health
Services
for
those
committed
to
DJJ
to
include
services
for
those
with
severe
mental
health
issues
also
allows
for
the
utilization
of
restorative
practices.
E
It
amends
krs-610
340
to
exempt
records
of
emissions
or
adjudications
of
violent
offenses
from
confidentiality
for
a
period
of
three
years.
If
there
have
been
no
other
convictions
during
this
three-year
period,
those
records
are
then
immediately
sealed.
And,
finally,
the
bill
appropriates
20
million
dollars
to
restore
the
Jefferson
County
Youth
Detention
Center
in
the
downtown
Louisville
and
the
Jefferson
County,
or
the
Jefferson
Regional
Juvenile
Detention
Facility
in
Linden.
A
E
E
A
This
is
the
agreement
between
the
two
Chambers
on
this
portion
of
Juvenile
Justice
Reform
all
right.
Thank
you
very
much.
If
you
want
to
just
move
on
back
there
for
a
second,
so
I'm
going
to
ask
the
following
people
to
come
forward,
it's
going
to
be
a
litany,
so
feel
free
to
grab
an
extra
chair
or
two
and
come
up.
I've
got
judge
Jessica,
Moore,
Edward
I,
believe
he
says:
Palmer
Scott,
West,
Ashley,
Spalding
and
Tanya
Whitfield.
A
F
Pastor
Alberto
Palmer
I
am
a
social
justice,
Advocate
National
trainer
and
consultant
on
racial
Equity
disparities
and
I.
Think
the
only
thing
I
want
to
add
in
opposition
to
this
bill
in
my
profession,
I'm
a
full-time
pastor
and
we
use
the
word
justification
simply
means
to
make
right
and
I
think
this
bill
lacks
the
justification
to
be
right.
Since
2017,
in
2007
we
had
a
roughly
around
1100
violent
offenders
in
the
youth
arena,
that's
dropped
to
693
by
2022.
F
We
see
a
39
decrease
in
violent
offenses
among
IU,
and
yet
this
bill
wants
to
take
more
Youth
and
send
into
our
Juvenile
Justice
System.
We
know
that
the
Juvenile
Detention
Center
in
Kentucky
is
broken.
F
We
have
a
39
decrease
in
violent
crimes
Statewide
since
27
2007.
in
Jefferson
County
those
charged
with
violent
offenses.
Nearly
70
percent
of
those
charged
with
violent
offenses
are
African-American.
Kids.
This
bill
will
disproportionately
impact
the
African-American
youth
population,
so
I
I
caution
you
to
think
about
the
justification
for
this
bill.
Violent
crime
is
going
down
among
young
people
not
up
and
most
of
those
cases
that
would
be
initially
charged
at
the
policing
contact
point.
F
When
they
get
to
court,
two
or
three
days
later
will
probably
be
amended
down,
but
the
damage
to
that
young
person
would
have
already
been
done.
So
I
think
this
bill
lacks
the
justification
to
be
harder
on
young
people
just
because
they
were
charged
with
the
violent
offense.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you.
Mr.
G
Good
morning,
Mr,
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
I'm
judge,
Jessica
Moore.
Currently,
the
chief
district
judge
of
Jefferson
District
Court
I've
also
spent
the
past
three
years
presiding
in
the
juvenile
court.
I
want
to
particularly
thank
the
sponsors
of
House,
Bill,
3
and
all
of
the
co-chairs
and
you
as
a
committee
for
your
thoughtful
consideration
on
this
bill
and
just
want
to
raise
concerns.
The
Judiciary
has
related
to
the
mandatory
detention
portion.
Very
briefly,
this
bill
does
recognize
the
unique
issues
present
in
Jefferson
County
related
to
detention.
G
I
was
very
glad
to
hear
of
the
delay
related
to
the
mandatory
detention.
I
want
to
communicate
to
you
that
the
district
court
judges
across
the
state
are
making
these
difficult
detentions
decisions,
and
the
data
will
show
you
that
90
percent
of
this
particular
population
is
already
being
detained
after
consideration
by
judges,
the
that
are
presented
with
information
from
the
court
designated
worker.
The
risk
assessment,
information
from
the
charging
officer
and
charging
document.
G
All
of
those
facts
and
circumstances
that
are
unique
to
each
youth
must
be
considered,
and
the
judges
feel
very
strongly
that
we
are
in
the
best
position
to
consider
all
those
facts
and
circumstances
before
making
that
decision
related
to
detention.
The
data
also
supports
that
we
know
once
a
youth
is
detained.
There
is
a
ripple
effect
of
negative
consequences
and
we
have
to
be
so
careful
on
when
making
that
decision.
It
cannot
be
a
one-size-fits-all
for
every
youth
across
the
Commonwealth.
G
We
remain
open
and
want
to
be
able
to
ensure
that
we
can
provide
more
data
to
you
and
looking
at
the
detention
component
of
this
bill,
we
want
to
be
a
part
of
the
conversation
so
that
good
law
is
made
that
protects
and
ensures
the
safety
of
everyone
across
the
Commonwealth,
as
well
as
protecting
the
constitutional
rights
of
the
most
vulnerable
constituents
that
you
have
the
youth
in
our
communities.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
your
time
this
morning.
Thank.
H
All
right,
my
name
is
Tanya
Whitfield
I'm,
with
Kentucky
for
the
Commonwealth
and
4K
fan.
Steering
committee
and
I
would
like
to
thank
everybody
on
the
panel
for
giving
me
opportunities
to
speak.
I
am
not
only
speaking
on
behalf
of
all
of
the
work
I've
done
with
these
great
organizations,
but
as
a
mom
as
a
daughter
as
a
cousin
and
I
have
seen
firsthand
how
bad
things
could
get,
especially
in
our
community,
our
of
color,
but
it
ain't
just
for
them.
H
It's
for
all
teens,
because
sometimes
they
just
make
bad
choices,
and
you
know
they
shouldn't
be
criminalized
for
that,
because
sometimes
a
lot
of
these
children
that
are
in
there,
even
if
they're
juveniles,
I'll
call
them
children
they're
not
fully
developed
mentally.
H
They
don't
even
understand
why
they're
being
detained
and
then
it's
an
automatic
48
hours
detainment,
which,
depending
on
the
time
that
they
are
detained,
it
might
be
longer
because
we
got
to
wait
for
a
judge
and
things
like
that,
and
so
all
that
time,
that
they're
in
there
and
they're
being
bullied
and
abused,
and
things
like
that.
All
of
that
extra
mental
strain
that
is
on
them.
H
Instead
of
giving
them
an
opportunity
to
get
help
to
get
support
the
right
way
and
then
there
they
are
definitely
90
percent
more
times
likely
to
recommit
the
offense
and
then,
when
you
come
to
the
younger
children
being
around
the
older
children,
because
they're
trying
to
like
you
know,
be
cool
and
you
know
try
to
like.
Oh
I'm
gonna
like
be
cooler
than
them.
You
know
because
in
their
mind,
that's
what
they're
thinking
I'm
gonna
be
a
part
of
them,
so
I
have
to
do
things
and
then
that
causes
even
more
tension.
H
So
I
just
urge
you
not
as
a
just
as
a
constituent
and
as
a
mom
I
urge
y'all
to
really
reconsider
this
bill.
I'm
not
saying
the
whole
bill
is
bad,
but
when
it
comes
to
the
48
Hours
when
it
comes
to
the
judges
not
having
as
much
say,
because
they
can
make
better
decisions,
better
informed
decisions
on
a
case-by-case
basis,
I
just
urge
y'all
to
really
consider
what
message
you
are
sending
to
the
Commonwealth
and
thank
you
so
much
for
your
time.
Thank.
A
I
In
the
case,
it's
going
to
follow
this
detention
anything
if
the
council
is
not
there
and
it's
not
a
knowing
voluntary
and
intelligent
waiver,
then
we're
going
to
be
moving
to
suppress
any
evidence.
That's
learned
as
a
result
of
statements
made
during
this
detention
we're
going
to
try
to
keep
the
case
from
being
transferred.
If
it's
a
transfer
case,
if
it's
from
statements
that
were
learned
during
this
detention,
if
it
was
without
counsel,
this
will
throw
Council
earlier
into
the
mix
than
has
been
thought
about
or
intended.
I
The
other
thing
I
will
talk
about
is
the
tremendency
provisions.
You
know
I've
learned
from
some
of
the
best
juvenile
practitioners
in
the
state,
while
at
DPA,
and
one
of
the
things
they
tell
me
is
if
the
reason
your
child's
not
going
to
school
is
because
the
parents
aren't
taking
them,
then
open
up.
Ask
the
state
to
open
up
a
DNA
case.
They
use
different
carrots
and
sticks
in
jail
time.
They
want
unsupervised
supervision
of
their
of
their
kids.
They
want
to
be
able
to
to
talk
with
their
kids
and
not
lose
temporary
custody.
I
Those
are
the
carrots
and
sticks,
but
once
they
come
into
the
child's
case
and
they're
put
under
orders,
they're
going
to
be
entitled
to
council
and
we're
going
to
be
there
and
insist
on
due
process
when
the
order
is
entered
that
they're
going
to
be
under,
but
we're
also
going
to
be
there
if
there's
an
alleged
breach
of
that
order.
So
once
again,
more
attorneys
are
being
injected
earlier
than
was
thought,
and
in
my
experience
you
know
if
the
design
is
to
move
things
along
quicker.
I
You
know
this
is
going
to
give
lawyers
an
earlier
chance
to
get
in
there
and
defend
these
people
as
we
are
required
to
do
Under
the
ethics
under
the
Constitution.
That's
we're
the
one
Council
that
you're
entitled
to
and
we're
on
your
side
and
and
that
that
can
have
consequences
for
people
who
would
like
it
to
move
quicker
than
than
later.
Thank.
J
Great,
thank
you.
My
name
is
Dr
Ashley
Spalding
I'm,
the
research
director
with
the
Kentucky
Center
for
economic
policy.
Thank
you,
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
you
today.
J
J
I
want
to
talk
about
what
the
research
shows
related
to
Public,
Safety
I
know
we're
all
concerned
about
public
safety,
and
we
want
to
see
kids
who
make
mistakes
be
able
to
turn
their
lives
around
and
what
the
research
literature
the
scholarly
research
shows
is
that
these
Provisions
that
I
mentioned
in
the
bill.
These
punitive
approaches
will
actually
have
the
opposite
effect
and
they
will
actually
the
research
points
to
them
actually
diminishing
Public
Safety
in
the
Commonwealth
rather
than
improving
it.
J
The
research
is
very
clear
on
this:
I
want
to
say
at
a
high
level,
since
I
don't
have
much
time
with
the
research
shows,
but
really
the
at
a
very
high
level.
It
shows
that
when
we
incarcerate
kids,
when
we
detain
kids
it
actually
who
make
mistakes
I'm
like
where's,
my
I'm,
so
sorry,
I
I,
know
that
I
needed
to
cut
it
down.
J
Here
we
go
I
want
to
just
sum
it
up
by
saying
put
simply
detaining
kids
who
make
mistakes,
increases
their
chances
of
becoming
adults
who
make
mistakes
instead
of
the
productive
members
of
society
that
we
all
want
to
to
see
them
become.
It
makes
it
very
much
harder
for
them
to
turn
their
lives
around
I
want
to
mention
one
specific
study,
there's
so
many
studies,
a
study
that
specifically
looks
at
pre-trial
detention
or
pre-adjudication
detention
and
the
harms
that
that
we
see
to
the
to
the
youth
and
then
to
the
impact
on
our
communities.
J
This
recent
peer-reviewed
study
published
in
the
Journal
of
crime
and
delinquency-
it's
specifically
applies
to
this
situation
because
it's
pre-trial
or
pre-judication.
J
The
study
found
that,
regardless
of
the
numbers
of
of
days
in
car
serrated
that
there
was
youth
who
were
detained
that
it
increased
kids
likelihood
of
committing
a
new
felony
within
one
year
by
33
percent
and
a
new
misdemeanor
within
the
the
following
year.
By
11
and
each
day,
spent
detained
in
a
secure
facility
was
associated
with
a
one
percent
increased
risk
in
reoffending
per
day.
A
I
could
ask
you
guys
just
kind
of
take
those
couple
seats
behind
you
there
because
I
know
we've
got
questions
from
the
committee,
but
I
promised
the
sponsor
five
minutes
for
any
rebuttals
and
closing
comments,
so
Senator
Carol.
If
you
would
like
to
come
up,
sir
and
Senator
Webb
is
your
question
for
that
panel
or
for
Senator
Carroll.
E
Mr
chairman,
in
response
to
the
48
hours,
I,
think
it's
important
to
remember
that
these
are.
This
is
just
related
to
Violent
offenses
and
it's
not
simple
detention.
There
there's
a
mental
health
assessment
that
goes
along
with
this,
in
addition
to
possible
treatment,
whether
they
remain
in
detention
or
if
they
are
released,
we're
moving
in
in
that
direction,
and
it
also
allows
for
Community
groups
to
come
in
to
intervene
to
work
with
the
child.
E
This
could
be
faith-based
groups
or
others
that,
and
hopefully,
when
they
are
released,
it
would
lead
in
to
additional
Services
through
these
groups.
So
it's
not
simple
detention
and
it
does
not
apply
to
those
kids
who
are
10
years
or
younger,
and
if
a
police
officer
can
get
a
juvenile
directly
to
the
detention
hearing
before
going
to
DJJ.
That
would
also
happen,
so
I
think
that's
important
to
remember
and
as
far
as
the
accountability
for
parents
Mr
chairman
it's
time,
and
we
talk
often
about
families
being
held
accountable
for
the
actions
of
their
kids.
E
This
puts
that
into
play
where
the
courts
can
hold
a
parent
accountable
if
they
intentionally
fail
to
cooperate
in
relation
to
truancy
issues.
So
that's
that's
explaining
that
provision.
The
confidentiality
of
the
records,
its
employment
issue,
where
these
records
again
only
on
violent
offenses,
and
if
there
are
no
other
offenses
within
three
years,
then
those
records
are
immediately
sealed.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
thank.
A
A
K
Appreciate
that
with
at
the
Talon
I
was
proud
to
be
on
it,
I'd
like
to
continue
to
work
there
with
that,
but
you
know
I
practice,
law,
36
years,
I
still
practice
juvenile
law
I've
been
here
25
years
and
you've
heard
me
say
it
throughout,
and
some
people
may
get
tired
of
it.
But
I
think
what
the
testimony
we've
heard
today.
What
I
say
is
relevant.
K
I
was
probably
the
only
person
in
the
room
that
represents
the
children
and
I
I,
and
that's
what
I
like
about
Regional
Detention
is
the
most
important
important
person
is
not
their
family
or
their
preacher.
Even
at
that
time
it's
their
lawyer
and
just
because
you're
charged
with
something
a
serious
crime
doesn't
mean
you've
done
it,
and
it
doesn't
mean
it's
going
to
proceed
that
way,
so
I
mean
I'm
playing
devil's
advocate
here,
a
little
because
I
represent
children.
K
I
represent
those
Liberty
interests
and
we
spend
a
whole
lot
of
time
in
this
body.
Talk
about
Liberty
interests
and
the
Constitution
and
I
practice
that
I
try
to
practice
it
everywhere.
I
am,
and
one
thing
I
I
would
like
to
know
more
about.
Is
you
know
when
we
go
into
the
next
session
after
we've
identified
a
lot
of
these
problems
and
we
fix
some
of
the
problems
in
the
juvenile
justice
system
is
to
hear
from
the
experts
I
consider
some
of
those
folks
sitting
there.
K
A
minute
ago,
experts
and
and
you've
seen
you
know,
I,
don't
want
to
sit
back
any
Juvenile,
Justice
data
success,
it's
not
perfect
and
things
have
changed
and
there
are
variables
involved
in
it
that
we
have
to
adapt
to
in
that
data.
K
But
we
certainly
need
to
take
heed
of
you
know
the
where
we
are
Juvenile
Justice,
what
the
experts
have
to
say
and
I
hope
we
can
continue
to
bring
in
folks
and
and
have
lengthy,
exhaustive
hearings,
I'm
willing
to
sit
and
listen
to
that
for
the
sake
of
these
children
and
the
sake
of
this
agency
and
I
just
have
I
have
concerns
too
I,
like
judicial
discretion,
I.
Think
if
you,
these
judges,
know
what
they're
doing
we
elect
them
to
know
what
they're
doing
and
I
like
discretion.
K
It
is
not
a
one-size-fits-all
for
these
children.
I
have
concerns
about
some
of
the
provisions
of
this
bill.
I
stated
them
and
I'll
continue
to
State
them
and
we're
not
going
to
get
a
perfect
product,
but
I
think
we
need
open
hearings.
I
think
we
need
experts.
National,
Data,
driven
based
adaptations
to
our
population
and
I
will
continue
to
urge
that.
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
C
Yes,
I
think
we
have
to
watch
what
kind
of
data
we
have,
because
it's
obvious
that
the
ones
that
are
detained
are
more
likely
to
reoffend,
but
is
it
apples
to
apples?
Are
you
saying
that
you
detained
people
are
not
detain
them
or
committing
the
same
crime
so
that
we
can
objectively
look
at
you
commit
a
crime
and
you're
detained
you're
more
likely
to
reoffend,
and
you
commit
the
same
crime
and
you're
not
detained
that
you
won't
reoffend
I
would
think
that
there
isn't
data
to
to
show
the
exact
equal
to
that
Danny.
E
Well,
Senator
neimus
I
can't
speak
to
the
data.
I
can
speak
to
24
years
of
law
enforcement,
experience
and
part
of
the
value
to
this
detention
period.
It's
a
cooling
off
period,
And
I,
can't
tell
you
the
number
of
times
that
we've
seen
incidents
happen,
shootings
major
assaults.
Whatever
the
case
might
be
that
the
person,
the
suspect,
is
immediately
released
and
then
there's
a
retaliation
or
there's
a
second
offense
related
to
the
first.
E
So
I
think
that's
important
to
remember
that
and
to
to
Senator
Webb's
point:
I,
don't
disagree
and
that's
part
of
the
reason
this
has
been
delayed
for
a
year
and
a
half
the
Juvenile
Justice
oversight
council
is
tasked
for
reviewing
DJJ
all
aspects
of
DJJ
and
I
have
no
doubt.
This
is
something
that
will
be
discussed
through
that.
So
there
you
go
Mr
chairman.
A
I
believe
we
have
another
distinguished
visitor
with
us,
Senator
schickel
I
think
that
he
wants
to
add
on
to
that
then
we'll
go
to
Senator
Givens
for
the
last
question
on
this
subject.
Thank.
L
You
Mr
chairman
for
allowing
me
to
speak.
This
is
something
this
bill
and
other
bills
is
something
I've
been
involved
with,
with
for
really
ever
since
I've
been
a
senate
and
I
feel
very
passionate
about
it
and
I
feel
compelled
to
speak,
because
I
feel
like
some
of
the
testimony
as
Senator
neimus
has
indicated,
has
been
very
one-sided.
L
We
need
to
always
remember
the
question
is:
is
who's
making
this
decision,
whether
someone
is
detained
or
not,
and
I
feel
so
passionately
that
it
should
be
an
elected
judge
from
that
jurisdiction,
an
elected
judge
from
that
jurisdiction
and
this
bill?
This
is
the
maximum
amount
of
time
like
the
bill
sponsor
says
it
can
happen
any
time
before
that
and
we
cannot
deny
what's
going
on
in
our
communities.
I
speak
for
my
own
Community
Northern
Kentucky.
L
D
Mr
shickle,
if
you'll
stay
at
the
table.
Thank
you
both
for
your
work
on
this
Senator
Carroll.
Thanks
for
your
leadership
as
we
work
through
that
DJJ
discussion
over
the
course
of
the
of
the
period
I'm,
not
even
going
to
call
it
the
interim,
if
you
remember
it,
was
all
compressed
in
that
one
period
of
the
break
in
masterful
work
fun
to
be
involved
in
that
I'm
I'm
reminded
as
we
have
this
legislation
before
us,
and
we
look
seems
like
the
focus.
D
C
D
They
need
more
tools
in
the
toolbox
that
judicial
discretion
to
make
the
decision
one
way
or
the
other,
how
to
position
someone
for
a
bright
future
or
how
to
punish
someone
if
they
need
to
be
punished,
and
so
then,
when
I
hear
judge
Moore
indicate
that
ninety
percent
are
detained
do
either
of
you
know
anything
about
the
10
that
are
not
detained
because
from
what
I
gather
that
10
percent
is
going
to
be.
The
group
work
we're
detaining
that
we
weren't
previously.
E
Is
my
understanding
that
those
juveniles
are
released
and
really
to
to
a
sense?
This
bill
accomplishes
what
you
just
spoke
of
in
that,
whatever
up
to
that
that
48-hour
period,
if
they
are
released,
there
would
likely,
if,
if
an
assessment
dictates
that
there
is
a
need
for
additional
treatment,
that
treatment
would
follow
that
juvenile
when
they
are
released.
E
If
there
are
connections
made
within
Community
groups
faith-based
whatever
it
is,
our
hope
that
those
Services
would
also
continue-
and
that
is
far
better
than
the
juvenile
just
those
that
10
percent
being
released
with
no
Services
until
they
go
before
the
court
and
if
they
are
committed
to
DJJ,
then
Services
would
begin
at
that
point,
and
if
there
was
an
assessment
made
and
they
are
later
committed,
the
services
would
continue
within
DJJ.
So.
D
Brief
follow
Mr
chairman
if
I
could
senatorship
well.
You
had
mentioned
your
experience
in
law
enforcement,
and
you
and
I
have
had
some
conversations
on
this
topic
either
or
both
of
you
helped
me
to
understand.
I
know
what
48
hours
is,
but
the
bill
language
specifically
says
that
the
clock
doesn't
start
ticking
until
that
young
person
lands
in
in
DJJ
in
that
facility.
Correct,
so
I've
got
a
48-hour
period
that
that
young
person
can
be
held
there.
What's
the
lead
time
prior
to
that
arrest,
citation
sitting
at
the
station.
D
L
That's
a
great
question
Senator
and
the
answer:
it's
been
my
experience.
It
really
varies
because
what
we
have
now
is
mass
confusion
in
Northern
Kentucky.
We
don't
even
have
a
Detention
Facility
and
if
we
do
it's
going
to
be
hours
and
hours
and
hours
to
transport
that
person
to
that
facility,
so
what
I
see
is
there
is
a
lot
of
confusion
back
and
forth.
L
E
I
have
to
agree
with
that,
depending
on
the
magnitude
of
the
offense
juvenile
could
be
detained
for
interviews
Gathering
of
evidence
for
search
warrants
to
be
conducted,
so
it
would
depend
on
on
a
murder
case.
I
mean
it
could
be
several
hours
before
they
would
be
taken
to
detention.
All.
A
Right,
gentlemen,
with
that
you
will,
that
will
be
the
last
word
on
the
matter.
We
sincerely
appreciate
it
to
Echo
Center
Gibbons
comment
center,
Carol
I
know
you
went
through
a
lot
during
those
four
weeks
and
there
were
ups
and
downs
and
highs
and
lows
and
everywhere
in
between,
but
you
certainly
try
to
get
us
a
balanced
point
of
view
as
we
advance
this
and
the
Commonwealth
those
use
of
gratitude.
Thank
you.
E
A
M
Thank
you,
Senator
Carroll,
as
we
have
seen,
I've
worked
in
alternative
education,
settings
back
home
and,
as
I
have
seen
more
and
more
of
our
youth
involved
in
in
crimes.
M
M
N
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I
was
a
part
of
that
task,
force
as
well
and,
quite
frankly,
gain
insights
that
I
did
not
have
before,
but
it
confirmed
a
lot
of
thoughts.
I've
had
historically,
and
currently
this
bill
is
a
can
be
a
positive
step
forward.
Let
me
put
it
that
way,
but
it
can
also
be
subject
to
abuse
and
I
think
we
have
to
be.
We
can't
just
pass
something
like
this
and
turn
our
head
away.
We
have
to
dig
in
and
I
think
there's
some
structures
and
some
committees
are
going
to
be
established.
N
That's
going
to
follow
this
action
and
we
have
to
look
very
carefully
at
how
this
evolves
so
I'm
hopeful
that
we
do
that.
The
second
thing
is
is
that
this
is
not
going
to
be
sufficient.
I
think
we
all
can
agree
to
that
that
there's
a
lot
more.
N
That
needs
to
be
done,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
things
that
are
impacting
the
outcomes
that
we're
now
seeing
that
have
nothing
to
do
with
the
Juvenile
Justice
System
itself,
but
it
compounds
and
frustrates
the
inadequate
setup
of
the
system
now
to
meet
the
current
circumstances.
So
this
is
a
big
one:
I'm
not
talking
about
the
bill
I'm
talking
about
the
issue,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
big
forces
and
dynamics
that
are
taking
place.
N
That
impact
this
and
I
think
if
we
just
think
that
this
is
just
going
to
be
a
stop
Gap
and
this
is
going
to
end
it-
then
we're
going
to
miss
the
boat,
but
I
do
commend
the
process
by
which
we
undertook
to
get
to
some
Revelations
and
some
action
that
I
think
can
lead
to
a
positive
result,
but
we
have
to
Be
watchful
of
that
and
again
I'll
support
this
bill.
Our
vote,
I.
K
Explain
my
vote:
Yes
ma'am,
I'm
gonna
pass
and
normally,
when
I
pass,
notwithstanding
the
good
aspects
of
this
bill
when
I
pass,
there's,
usually
something
in
it.
I
think
that
needs
more
work
and
as
a
practitioner
and
a
mother
I
think
it
needs
more
work,
but
the
more
serious
the
crime,
the
less
I
want.
My
client
to
talk.
Okay,
that's
one
contradiction
here:
the
more
serious
the
crime,
the
more
urgent
the
need
is
for
an
attorney
normally
I'd
love
to
see
this
bill
in
the
committee
of
what
I
think
is
appropriate
jurisdiction
of
Judiciary.
K
However,
here
we
are
in
a
r,
and
that
too,
is
is,
is
a
good
thing,
because
we're
going
to
need
more
money
for
public
defenders,
we're
going
to
need
more
money
for
the
juvenile
system,
so
I'm
going
to
pass
at
this
time
in
hopes
of
continuing
to
work
on
this
one
of
the
most
urgent
issues,
I
feel
like
in
the
Commonwealth,
but
thank
you
Mr
chairman.
A
A
All
right,
that
being
said,
we're
going
to
go
just
a
little
bit
out
of
order
here,
but
first
of
all
we're
going
to
get
sent
joint
resolution
96.
This
is
a
resolution
that
I
sponsored
earlier
in
the
course
of
the
session,
simply
releasing
the
Monies
to
the
Louisville
fair
board
for
their
expansion,
the
plans
of
which
we
heard
earlier
this
session
at
this
time,
Senator
Nema
second,
by
Senator
Webb.
C
A
O
A
Either
being
10
I
votes,
no
name
votes,
the
measure
passes
with
favorable
expression.
The
chair
will
entertain
a
motion
for
consent
by
Senator
neimus
second,
by
Senator
maze,
Bledsoe,
always
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
the
eyes
have
it
motion
goes
on
consent.
Thank
you
all
very
much.
Next
up
we're
going
to
do
House,
Bill
444,
as
amended
by
Senate
committee
substitute
one.
The
chair
will
entertain
a
motion
on
the
committee
substitute.
A
Do
we
have
a
second
Senator
Webb?
Very
well,
the
only
change
in
Senate
committee?
Oh
all,
is
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
the
eyes
have
it.
The
only
change
to
the
underlying
bill
is
in
paragraph
two,
where
the
money
appropriated
for
the
compensation
study
specifies
that
that
study
does
need
to
be
completed
by
November
the
1st
of
this
year,
the
underlying
bill,
so
everyone
will
recall,
sees
all
judicial
branch
employees
receiving
a
two
thousand
dollar
raise
after
that.
A
What
we
will
see
is
that
there
is
a
six
percent
increment
across
the
board
for
all
states,
employees
and
then
also
there
is
obviously
the
raises
are
appropriate
as
it
relates
to
Department
of
Corrections
and
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice,
as
we've
heard
previously.
A
G
A
Aye
you're
being
10,
I
votes,
no,
nay
votes.
The
measure
passes
with
favorable
expression,
this
one's
a
pretty
important
one.
We
may
want
to
talk
about
it,
but
for
the
fear
of
possibly
timing.
I
will
entertain
a
motion
on
consent
or
May's
blood
Society
by
Senator
Gibbons
all
is
in
favor
signify
by
saying
I
the
eyes
have
it
measure
goes
on
to
consent
very
well.
All
right.
Next
up
we
will
take
up
house
joint
resolution
76
by
representative
Petrie.
In
this
resolution
the
parks
are
appropriated.
A
Forty
thousand
dollars
for
Campground
upgrades
20
million
dollars
for
utility
improvements
in
six
million
dollars
for
Broadband
upgrades.
This
has
been
out
for
a
while,
and
this
does
leave
a
balance
yet
to
be
appropriated
based
off
of
some
future
input
from
the
parks.
There
is
no
sub
any
questions
from
Members.
Senator
Boswell
has
a
motion.
Second,
by
Senator,
Douglas
I'm
secretary.
Please
call
the
roll.
K
Explain
my
vote.
Yes
ma'am
we've
got
more
money,
Parks
is
in
need
and
we
we've
got
to
upgrade
some
things.
I
listened
to
the
debate
on
this
in
the
house
and
being
familiar
with
this
shoot
and
having
parks
in
my
district.
K
It
it's
a
great
concern
to
me
as
we
try
to
move
forward
in
the
modernization
post
pandemic
issues
and
I
hope
once
again
that
we
have
this
discussion
open
discussion
with
Parks
about
where
they
are
and
about
where
we
are,
and
hopefully
we
can
come
to
come
some
consensus
here
and
spend
the
money
that
we've
appropriated
because
it's
it's.
We
make
money
on
that.
So
I
vote,
I.
A
Right
second,
from
Senator
Boswell
before
I
call
for
the
vote
on
that
I
will
say:
I'm
in
agreement.
We
intended
for
this
money
to
go
to
and
make
the
parks
even
better
and
I,
fully
anticipate
us
seeing
it
let's
get
there
at
this
time.
All
is
in
favor
of
consent
signify
by
saying
aye
opposed
like
sign
nice
have
it
measure,
goes
on
consent
very
well
all
right.
A
Let's
see
next
up,
we
are
going
to
take
up
house
bill
442..
This
is
the
claims
bill.
This
bill
has
been
out
there
for
several
weeks
now.
Obviously
this
is
something
we
do
every
year.
Basically,
the
the
random
checks
that
the
Commonwealth
does
have
to
cut
that
weren't
necessarily
covered
elsewhere.
Are
there
any
questions
on
the
claims
bill
motion
by
Center,
given
second
by
Senator,
Webb
I'm
secretary?
Please
call
the
roll.
A
Aye
I
mean
10
eye
votes,
no
name
votes.
The
measure
passes
with
favorable
expression
chair
will
entertain
a
motion
on
consent
by
Senator
Mays
Bledsoe
second,
by
Senator
Webb,
all
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
the
eyes
have
it.
The
measure
will
go
on
to
consent.
Thank
you
all
right.
Next
up
we
will
take
up
house
bill
360.
A
before
we
get
rolling
on
360,
though
one
thing
that
I
would
like
to
mention
online,
you
will
see
that
there
are
materials
posted
for
360,
446
and
448.
the
senate
committee
Subs
that
are
available.
There
are
not
actually
correct
because
we
are
not
hearing
the
underlying
bill
for
446
the
sub.
There
is
actually
split
into
the
other
two
bills
as
appropriate,
so
I
just
wanted
to
make
everyone
aware
on
that.
A
So,
on
House
Bill
360.
there
is
a
senate
committee
substitute
at
this
time.
The
chair
would
entertain
a
motion
on
the
sub
ject
Center
remains
Bledsoe
second,
by
Senator
Boswell,
all
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
opposed
yeah
I.
Have
it
all
right,
so
I'll
just
briefly
cover
the
provisions
of
this
bill.
First
of
all,
there's
a
change
to
the
consensus.
Forecasting
group
estimates
right
now.
We
have
three
and
this
kind
of
this
just
cuts
one
of
those
out
of
the
overall
process,
as
they
are
produced
so
close
in
time.
A
There's
a
clarification
about
school
board,
property
tax
rate
setting
date.
There
is
an
exclusion
for
Human,
Services,
Transportation
delivery,
kind
of
alternative
ambulances
in
there
on
the
electric
electric
vehicles.
We
do
direct
that
both
of
the
funds
that
are
utilized
for
electric
vehicles
that
all
of
the
money
will
be
deposited
into
the
road
fund,
there's
no
longer
a
general
fund
portion
to
that.
However,
at
this
point
it
goes
directly
to
the
road
fund
without
any
kind
of
a
split
sales
and
use
taxes.
A
We
clarify
that
cosmetic
surgery
services
does
not
include
those
that
are
medically
necessary
that
when
there
is
executive,
employee
recruitment,
the
fee
or
the
tax
is
calculated
on
the
fee,
not
the
pay
extended
warranty
services.
We
include
pre-written
computer
software
access,
Services,
Under
lobbying
Services.
We
clarify
that.
It
also
includes
those
who
Lobby
in
Washington,
DC
and
telemarketing.
We
are
taxing
spam
text,
messages
and
various
forms
of
social
media
and
based
off
of
the
spam
I've
got
in
the
last
couple
of
days.
Hopefully
out
of
existence,
we
delineate
advertising
Services
versus
marketing.
A
Services
do
clarify
that
bodyguard
services
are
not
taxable
under
the
security
monitoring
and
lab
testing
required
by
state
local
and
federal
government.
We
do
clarify
that
those
are
exempt
residential
utilities.
We
allow
for
owner
operators
to
declare
that
utilities
purchased
for
Kentucky
residents
be
used
in
the
residence
place
of
domicile.
This
particularly
applies
when
there's
a
centralized
meter,
but
multiple
primary
dwellings.
A
In
this
we
do
create
the
framework
for
a
rural
housing
trust
fund.
We'll
talk
about
the
funding
mechanism
behind
this
in
just
a
moment
when
we
get
to
House
Bill
448,
but
in
essence
at
the
Kentucky
housing
Corporation,
we
establish
a
new
board
to
administer
the
Kentucky
Rural
Housing
Trust
Fund,
as
well
as
make
various
other
changes
to
that,
create
a
board
and
also
we
place
the
chairmanship
of
the
corporation
under
the
Department
of
Agriculture
in
order
to
align
it
with
the
United
States
Department
of
Agriculture.
As
the
primary
agency
of
responsibility.
A
We
do
continue
the
water
and
sewer
project
sales
tax
exemption,
as
was
proposed
in
the
house,
and
also
the
rental
of
space,
clarifying
that
sublasses
are
not
responsible
for
the
remittance
of
sales
tax.
When
that's
rented
for
non-profit
fundraisers,
we
do
clarify
that
events
staffed
strictly
with
volunteers.
Sales
of
concession
are
exempt.
We
be
passed
through
entity
credit
that
was
included
in
the
house
bill.
We
clarify
some
language
to
ensure
that
that
extends
to
Partnerships
as
well.
We
do
update
the
internal
rep
Revenue
code
in
there.
A
The
restaurant
revitalization
Grant
remains,
as
proposed
in
the
house
bill
related
to
the
reduction
in
the
individual
income
tax
rate.
There's
been
some
question
about
continuing
Appropriations,
we
do
clarify
that
continuing
Appropriations
do
not
count
against
the
expenditure
in
there.
A
Oh,
we
we
have
in
there
some
language
specific
to
days
of
reduction.
There
were
some
businesses
that
had
particular
incentives
based
off
of
the
days
that
they
were
open
and
they
simply
were
not
legally
allowed
to
open
during
the
covet
pandemic.
We
did
extend
that
there
was
some
struggle
surrounding
some
of
the
Tif
districts
in
the
Commonwealth,
particularly
I,
know.
Bowling
Green
had
one
that
they're
very
concerned
about,
and
we
did
go
with
language
that
is
different
from
the
houses
but
was
agreed
upon
by
those
Tif
districts
that
were
negatively
impacted.
A
We
put
in
there
the
decontamination
income,
tax
credit
for
brownfields
and
change
that
threshold
to
six
million
dollars.
And
lastly,
we
touched
on
the
century:
aluminum
Kentucky,
Supreme
Court
ruling,
basically
saying
that
the
ruling
applied
only
to
that
particular
Supreme
Court
ruling
and
for
the
period
that
was
covered
therein.
A
Those
are
what
is
actually
Incorporated
in
that
sub.
Like
I
said,
the
sub
is
what
was
distributed
to
members
previously,
with
the
exception
that
the
structure
on
the
New
rural
housing
fund
was
brought
into
this
bill
as
opposed
to
446..
D
And
thanks
to
staff
for
the
work
on
this,
it's
it's
to
be
a
non-budget
session.
It
becomes
a
budget
document,
but
I
appreciate
the
attention
to
detail
I'm
on
page
11,
looking
at
the
Cosmetic
Surgery
language
and
I
suspect
we're
achieving
the
goal.
I
just
want
to
verify
that
we
are
cosmetic
surgery.
Services
does
not
include
surgery,
services
that
are
medically
necessary
to
reconstruct
or
correct
dysfunctional
areas
of
the
face
and
body
due
to
birth
disorders,
trauma
Burns
or
disease.
A
P
Mr,
chairman
I'm
sure
a
lot
of
the
members
here
are
getting
emails
and
various
other
things
that
communicate
to
us
regarding
the
taxing
of
gold
and
silver
I.
Don't
think
that
specifically
addressed
in
here
but
I'm
not
saying
I
want
to
make
a
change,
but
it's
something
we
may
have
to
look
at,
because
it
seems
a
lot,
especially
if
it's
in
the
in
the
form
of
a
coin,
whether
it
would
be
taxed.
A
Yeah
we
do
not
touch
on
the
current
taxation
structure
for
gold
or
silver
correct.
M
Mr
chairman,
on
the
earlier
version
on
I,
dealt
with
executive
positions
through
a
basically
Headhunters
I.
Don't
know
what
page
that
is
on
now.
I
can't
I
can't
seem
to
find
that
anywhere.
Has
that
been
removed,
or
is
that
still
within
the
bill?
No.
A
M
P
N
I'm
going
to
vote
Yes
on
this
at
this
point
to
move
it
along,
but
I
do
want
to
voice
some
concerns
that
I
have
if
we
continue
along
this
particular
path,
that
there
will
be
a
shift
to
service
fees
and
other
type,
sales
fees
and
other
types
of
fees
to
compensate
for
this,
and
have
some
concern
that
if
we
continue
along
this
path
that
we
may
threaten
the
of
the
availability
of
various
services
and
needed
services
and
beneficial
services
and
I
just
want
to
voice
a
caution
in
terms
of
how
we
proceed.
A
Aye
you're
being
10,
I
votes,
no
neigh
votes,
the
measure
passes
with
favorable
expression,
but
we
aren't
going
to
attain
entertain
a
motion
for
consent.
At
this
time
there
is
a
title:
Amendment
could
I
have
a
motion
on
the
title:
Amendment
ceremy's,
Bledsoe
second,
by
sinner
funky
frommeyer,
all
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
aye,
those
like
sign,
you
guys
have
it
tell
them?
It's
adopted,
okay.
A
This
is
a
an
act
related
to
government
Appropriations
and
there
is
a
senate
committee
substitute
it's
time.
The
chair
will
entertain
a
motion
on
the
sub
urist
of
second
Senator
Mays
Bledsoe,
all
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
guys
have
it
all
right,
so
Senate
can
be
substitute
on
448,
it's
pretty
simple.
First
of
all,
we
do
provide
the
carry
forward
of
for
CPE
for
the
Kentucky
State
University
oversight
for
their
funds
to
move
forward.
A
Like
the
house,
we
clear
we
do
allow
for
the
Louisville
Zoo
Trail
construction
money
to
carry
forward
for
a
year.
The
American
Battlefield
trust
appropriation
will
carry
for
for
a
year.
We
do
allow
25
million
dollars
in
agency
bonds
for
the
new
Western
Kentucky
Gordon
College
of
Business.
A
We
have
a
1.5
million
dollar
appropriation
of
arpa
funds
that
we
had
previously
approved
to
KDE,
to
specify
for
a
3D,
game-based
learning
platform
I
believe
that
had
previously
been
vetoed.
We
increased
restricted
funds
by
325
thousand
dollars
for
the
Board
of
Cosmetology.
We
increase
restricted
in
federal
funds
for
Medicaid
to
accommodate
changes
made
to
the
hospital
rate
Improvement
plan.
A
We.
These
are
actually
house
bills
that
the
house
committee
chairman
was
gracious
enough
to
allow
us
to
include
in
this
bill
that
were
standalones.
First
of
all,
is
a
39
million
dollar
appropriation
to
ktrs
that
we
did
not
need
for
sick
leave.
Liabilities
used
to
help
Finance
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
Bill
II
is
a
reduction
in
general
fund
to
the
transportation
cabinet
for
EV
charging
stations
which
was
used
to
fund
the
Bowling
Green
Veterans
Center.
A
A
We
had
an
emergency
Clause
to
the
appropriation
and
then
two
things
of
particular
note
in
this.
First
of
all,
we
had
intent
language
regarding
the
seek
lapse,
stating
that,
if
there's
a
c-clapse
in
fiscal
year,
2024
and
2025,
the
First
on
those
funds
will
be
for
growth
districts
in
fiscal
year.
A
2023-2024
and
then
lastly,
we
transferred
10
million
dollars
from
the
Eastern
Kentucky
safe
fund
and
10
million
dollars
from
the
Western
Kentucky
safe
fund
to
the
new
rural
housing
program,
which
is
housed
under
the
Kentucky
housing
Corporation,
with
the
enacting
language
being
in
House,
Bill
360
as
previously
referenced
at
this
time.
Are
there
any
questions
on
House,
Bill,
360.