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From YouTube: House Standing Committee on Judiciary (2-15-23)
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C
D
A
Here
so
this
is
obviously
the
first
meeting
of
the
2023
regular
session
and
before
we
We
Begin
I
would
like
to
ask
everyone's
cooperation
during
the
meeting.
Please
silence
your
phones
and
to
members
of
this
committee.
Please
speak
into
your
mic
during
roll
call
when
you
have
and
when
you
have
a
question
and
when
you
cast
your
vote,
if
you
do
not
speak
into
the
mic,
the
recording
equipment
will
not
properly
pick
up
your
response
and
will
not
record
your
vote.
A
A
We
have
representative
Josh
Bray,
representative
Lindsey,
Burke,
representative
Stephanie,
Dietz,
representative
Stephen,
Doane,
representative
Keturah,
Herron,
Representative,
Steve,
Rawlings,
representative
Scott,
Sharp
and
representative
Nick
Wilson,
and
also
want
to
recognize
representative
Flannery
who
I
know
came
on
in
the
interim,
but
this
is
his
first
regular
session
meeting.
I
believe
so
welcome
to
the
committee.
We're
very
happy
to
have
you
and
look
forward
to
your
good
work,
this
session,
so
bills
for
consideration.
A
We
have
one
bill
before
us
and
that
is
House
Bill
3
sponsored
by
representative
Kevin,
bratcher
and
representative
bratcher.
If
you
would
move
down
to
the
table,
please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
in
any.
You
have
two
guests:
would
you
come
to
the
table?
Please
introduce
yourselves
and,
and
then
you
may
you
may
proceed
sir.
F
Thank
you,
Mr
chair.
It's
good
to
see
you
as
the
chairman
of
this
great
committee.
I,
will
get
started
and
then
pass
it
over
to
some
experts
here
to
discuss
some
things
and
they'll
introduce
themselves
when
it's.
F
Last
year,
this
committee,
this
committee
last
year,
passed
House,
Bill
318
and
that's
pretty
much.
What
is
here
today
before
you.
There
are
a
few
changes
and
I
want
to
get
something
straight
right
off.
The
bat
is
that
there's
been
a
lot
of
talk
about
DJJ
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
this
one
this
bill
here,
House
Bill
3
touches
on
some
of
the
things
that
were
discussed
in
the
the
committee
that
you
might
have
heard
about
that
met.
F
I'll
touch
on
the
basic
themes
of
this
the
items
of
this
bill
and
then
pass
it
off.
One
of
the
things
House
Bill
3
has
is
a
maximum
48
hour
hold
for
those
juveniles
that
commit
the
violent
crimes
in
Kentucky.
There's
a
list
of
violent
crimes,
there's
about
15
of
them.
I've
got
them
here.
If
anybody
wants
to
look
it
up,
it's
KRS
522.200
about
532.200
and
it
deals
for
murder,
kidnapping,
arson,
rape,
it's
the
serious,
violent
crimes,
it's
called
the
violent
crime
statute.
F
I
believe
that
those
two
things
are
very
important
for
our
most
troubled
children
to
try
to
get
their
lives
turned
around
another
thing
this
bill
does
is
increase
or
it
introduces
parental
cooperation.
If
there
is
a
child
on
a
diversion
program-
and
it
is
found
out
that
the
parents
are
not
helping
that
child
complete
that
diversion
program,
then
the
parents
can
be
held
in
in
to
stand
in
front
of
the
judge.
F
F
So
with
that
I'll
pass
it
off
to
Josh
Crawford
to
my
left
and
then
David
James
to
my
right.
So
it's
all
yours!
If
it's
okay
with
you
chairman,
that's.
G
G
11
percent
of
our
homicide,
arrestees
in
2021
were
juveniles
the
national
average.
For
that
time
period
was
eight
percent
juveniles
commit
about
1
in
14,
violent
offenses
in
this
country,
and
unfortunately,
Louisville
is
not
alone
in
seeing
a
surge
in
juvenile
involved
violence
over
the
last
several
years
nationally
in
2020
homicides
involving
single
juvenile
perpetrators,
Rose
30
percent
homicides
involving
multiple
juvenile
perpetrators,
Rose
66
percent
carjackings
in
Louisville,
a
majority
of
carjackings
in
Louisville,
are
committed
by
juveniles.
Now
carjacking
is
a
federal
crime.
G
It's
a
colloquial
term
so
that
you
understand
the
conduct
that
we're
talking
about,
but
the
actual
charges
in
those
instances
are
going
to
be
assault
in
the
first
degree
robbery
in
the
first
degree.
So
we're
talking
about
homicides,
drive-by
shootings
assaults
in
the
first
degree,
robberies
in
the
first
degree.
Those
are
the
kinds
of
offenses
covered
by
KRS
the
the
relevant
KRS
statute,
532-200.
G
That
representative
bratcher
mentioned
this
bill,
focuses
on
the
children
who
have
found
themselves
most
involved
in
street
life
and
most
involved
in
serious
offending
and
serves
as
an
intervention
point
to
hopefully
get
them
back
on.
A
positive
life
course
there's
also
a
provision
in
this
bill
that
representative
bratcher
mentioned,
as
it
relates
diversion
programs
and
truancy.
G
The
court
will
then
have
the
opportunity
to
compel
parents
to
participate
and
cooperate
now
that
lack
of
cooperation
must
be
willful
if,
for
some
reason,
the
parent
is
incapable
of
aiding
in
that
participation,
they're
not
covered
under
the
statute.
This
deals
exclusively
with
parents
who
choose
not
to
help
their
child
resolve
their
truancy.
Watch
truancy.
G
G
H
Nice
go
ahead.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
Mr
chair
and
thank
you
committee
for
allowing
us
to
be
here.
My
name
is
David
James
and
I
serve
as
the
deputy
mayor
for
the
city
of
Louisville
for
emergency
services
and
the
Youth
Detention
Center
is
one
of
my
responsibilities
and
so
a
little
bit
of
history
for
those
that
may
not
know
back
in
the
70s
Louisville
decided
for
some
reason
that
it
was
going
to
run
its
own
Youth,
Detention,
Center
I.
Don't
know
why.
H
Let's
look
back
at
history,
you
could
say
that
was
a
bad
idea,
whereas
throughout
the
rest
of
the
state,
the
state
operated
the
youth
detention
centers
throughout
the
state
in
2018
in
2019
because
of
pension
increases,
the
city
of
Louisville
was
faced
with
trying
to
determine
how
to
balance
the
budget,
and
so
the
council
decided
at
that
time
to
close
the
Youth
Detention
Center
in
retrospect.
Was
that
a
great
idea,
probably
not?
H
And
so
here
we
are
today
and
we
have
a
tremendous
amount
of
problems
associated
with
our
youth
that
you
just
heard
about,
and
and
so,
if
you
look
at
the
problems
that
we're
having
in
Jefferson
County
you'll,
say
well,
what's
causing
all
that,
where
are
the
homicides
coming
from?
Roughly
30
percent
of
our
homicides
in
Jefferson
County
are
related
to
gang
activity,
and
so
we
are
asking
your
help
in
dealing
with
that
and
so
for.
H
Whether
that's
through
therapy
are
are
having
JCPS
there
in
the
school
that
is
inside
of
Jace
inside
of
jcyc
inside
of
jcyc,
we
used
to
operate
a
school
through
JCPS
and
because
those
children
are
in
there,
many
of
those
children
are
alive
today
and
because
those
children
were
in
there,
they
also
received
their
diploma
because
we
don't
have
a
facility
for
the
children.
Now
it
is
hampering
Louisville's
ability
to
protect
its
citizens
and
to
protect
those
children
and
so
I'm
here
to
ask
for
your
help
and
stand
for
any
questions
that
you
may
have.
A
Thank
you.
There
is
a
committee
substitute
representative
brancher
is.
Is
there
a
motion
to
adopt
there's
a
motion
by
representative
Blanton
and
who
made
the
second
I
heard
a
second
representative
Bray,
all
those
in
favor,
please
say
aye
aye,
those
opposed
no,
and
so
the
substitute
is
before
the
committee.
Does
any
member
have
any
question
or
comment
at
this
point
in
time.
G
J
Thank
you,
Mr
Speaker
may
I
ask
a.
J
My
first
question
relates
actually
to
mental
health.
The
bill
specifically
ends
Section
3,
sub,
2
and
I'm.
Sorry
sub
three
State
said
that
children
in
detention
will
be
evaluated
for
cognitive,
behavioral
therapy
or
substance
abuse
disorder
treatment.
Is
there
a
reason
that
cognitive
behavioral
therapy
is
specifically
chosen
when
there
are
a
myriad
of
therapeutic
approaches
that
may
be
appropriate
for
someone
in
detention.
G
Thank
you,
representative
Burke
for
that
question.
That
language
is
not
meant
to
be
exclusive
or
exclusionary
of
other
potential
therapeutic
programs,
but
it
is
meant
to
specifically
highlight
CBT
for
the
population
that
we
are
talking
about.
Cognitive
behavioral
therapy
is
being
used
with
with
youthful
gang
members
across
the
country,
in
particular
in
places
like
Boston
and
Baltimore,
with
a
tremendous
amount
of
success,
and
so
there's
an
emphasis
on
that
program,
but
that
language
is
not
designed
to
be
exclusionary
of
other
treatment
modalities
that
may
be
relevant
to
a
particular
juvenile.
J
May,
in
section
three
subsection,
two
part
B,
it
says
that
the
justice
and
Public
Safety
cabinet
will
enter
into
a
contract
with
at
least
one
qualified
mental
health
professional.
Given
that
the
time
period,
we're
talking
about
for
an
evaluation
is
very
brief.
At
48
hours
is
the
plan
to
have
more
than
one
professional
available,
because
clearly
you
can't
have
one
person
on
24
hours
a
day
and
meet
the
kind
of
demand
we'd
be
looking
at.
G
L
Thank
you
chairman.
Thank
you
all
for
Coming
before
us
today,
as
we
know
that
the
issues
plague
in
Jefferson,
County
and
really
across
the
state
will
Juvenile
Justice
is,
is
a
lot.
L
I
do
have
several
questions
chairman.
If
that's,
if
that's
okay,
oh
please
proceed.
Thank
you.
One
of
the
first
things
that
I
want
to
ask
is
regarding
the
parental
cooperation.
L
How
is
this
different
than
currently
now?
If
a
parent
is
not
a
parenting
in
the
proper
way?
From
my
understanding,
anyone
is
eligible
to
file
some
type
of
neglect
charge
or
a
petition.
G
There
should
be
no
direct
impact
on
the
existing
educational
neglect
statute
and
the
ability
to
to
bring
those
kinds
of
charges.
This
is
designed
to
be
specifically
for
individuals
who
already
find
themselves
involved
in
the
system
have
already
been
identified
as
Truman
from
school
and
deal
with
that
specifically
and
the
specific
instances
of
Parental
non-cooperation
with
the
the
programmatic
aspects
of
a
truancy,
diversion
plan.
L
I
just
want
to
follow
up
I
I
actually
was
a
court
designated
worker
in
Jefferson,
County
and
most
of
the
kids
I.
Don't
know
what
number
percentage,
but
most
of
the
kids
who
are
truant
were
already
involved
in
family
court
and
so
I'm
just
very
concerned
with
this
language,
and
don't
really
know
that
there
is
necessarily
a
reason
to
to
add
this
additional
on
onto
it.
I
do
have
another
question
and
this
may
be
for
Deputy,
James
or
maybe
representative
bratcher.
L
We
currently
know
that
DJJ
is
very
short
staffed.
We
know
that
staff
in
Louisville
as
it
relates
to
the
adult
detention
center,
is
very
low.
A
lot
of
issues
with
the
adult
Corrections
Center
in
Jefferson
County
and
before
the
facility
in
Jefferson
County
closed
down
with
youth.
There
was
a
lot
of
abuse
allegations,
and
so
my
question
is,
is
what
is
the
plan
to
hire
said
staff
for
the
facility?
What
does
that
look
like?
What
does
the
training
look
like
for
staff
and
what?
H
Oh
I'll
answer
my
part.
If
that's
okay,
chair,
please
so
I
would
say
that,
under
the
current
plan
the
DJJ
would
operate
the
detention
part
portion
of
that
meaning
they
would
do
the
hiring
and
operate
that
portion
for
the
the
Metro
Government
side.
We
would
provide
the
funding
and
hiring
for
running
the
mental
health
services
and
programming
for
whatever.
M
H
L
The
plan
for
the
hiring
for
Jefferson,
specifically.
F
I
can
tell
you
that
DJJ
is
getting
ready
to
you
know.
The
governor
has
said
that
he
wants
salary
increases
for
to
help
with
the
shortage
labor
shortage.
F
I
do
think
that,
like
I
said
before,
there
will
be
another
bill
coming
through,
probably
starting
the
Senate
that
will
I
can't
say
for
sure,
but
I'm,
pretty
sure
and
I
think
you
in
that
committee
that
you
were
in
representative
Heron
you.
You
know
that
that
was
something
we
paid
close
attention
to,
that
we
are
going
to
find
ways
to
fund
the
entire
DJJ
system,
so
that
would
include
Louisville.
L
I
have
one
question:
yes,
please
go
ahead.
Sorry,
thank
you
for
that
representative
Bradshaw.
We
have
not
seen
anything
additionally
and
so
I
do
look
forward
to
seeing
that
the
other
a
huge
issue
I
have
are
concerned
with
this
piece
of
legislation
is
the
confidentiality
and
Records
piece.
L
I
really
don't
understand
the
reasoning
behind
it.
I'll
tell
you
my
fears
of
what
this
does.
Currently
juvenile
statute
allows
for
education,
police
officers,
courts
to
already
have
access
to
said
records,
and
so
opening
this
up
I
feel
like
it
could
be
more
harmful,
I
can't
remember
which
one
of
you
all
spoke
about
it.
L
But
you
spoke
about
the
gang
issue
in
Louisville
that
that
is
a
real
issue
when
a
young
person
is
killed,
I'll
get
a
phone
call
from
the
victim
and
I'll
get
a
phone
call
from
the
perpetrators
family,
so
that
is
real.
So
my
question
is
is
if
we
know
that
is
real
and
that's
a
real
issue.
G
So
the
only
thing
that
that
language
does
is
essentially
treat
adjudications
of
532
200
offenses
by
juveniles.
The
same
way
it
does
adults
with
the
sole
exception
of
there's
now
a
fi.
There
would
now
be
a
five-year
automatic
expungement
process
for
those
juveniles,
and
so
what
that
would
allow
for
is
relevant
information
as
it
relates
to
acquisition
of
of
firearms
or
attempted
acquisition
of
firearms
by
those
individuals.
It
would
also
allow
for
prospective
employers
and
perhaps
sensitive
circumstances,
to
have
that
relevant
information.
I
would
not
support
opening
up
records
broadly
for
juveniles
right.
G
A
kid
who
steals
a
candy
bar
from
a
convenience
store
is
fundamentally
different
than
the
the
types
of
offenses
that
we're
talking
about
here
and
all
of
the
offenses
that
we're
talking
about
here,
if
committed
by
an
adult,
would
lack
the
ability
to
be
expunged
whatsoever,
but
for
a
gubernatorial
pardon
right,
we're
talking
about
a
very
small
subset
of
very
serious
and
violent
offenses
that
if
a
17.5
half-year-old
commits
under
current
law
is
completely
sealed
and
if
an
18
and
one
day
old
commits
will
be
on
their
record
forever
and
so
the
specific
language
that
is
in
that
bill
in
the
bill
now
is
the
result
of
a
number
of
back
and
forths
with
relevant
parties
to
try
to
come
to
a
compromise.
G
F
And
I'll
say
this:
that
is
one
area
that
I
would
be
willing
to
work
with
people
on
to
narrow
the
scope,
if
need
be,
but
you
got
to
remember
that
these
are
some
serious
crimes
that
they
have
been
convicted
of
adjudicated
or
can
or
confessed
to,
and
there
are
needs
out
there
for
for
knowledge
of
of
a
person's
records.
I
I
understand
the
sensitivity
of
juveniles
and,
like
I,
said,
that's
something
I'm
willing
to
work
with.
If
anybody
wants
to
to
work
on
that.
L
Thank
you
and
I
and
I
will
get
with
you
representative
after
to
make
sure
that
we
can
get
that
and
I
I
do
agree.
L
This
is
very
the
issues
that
we're
facing
are
very
serious
and
very
real,
and
for
folks
who
don't
know,
I
have
worked
in
the
Juvenile
Justice
System,
pretty
much
in
all
pieces
and
parts,
and
so
I
know
and
understand
what
we're
dealing
with
and
I
do
still
think
that
we
have
to
be
very
cautious
of
protecting
our
young
people
and
also
very
cautious
of
what
that
does.
L
K
You
Mr
chair
and
thank
you
very
much
for
the
present
presentation.
Thanks
for
the
work
on
this,
it's
been
eye-opening
to
be
part
of
the
conversation
and
I
appreciate
being
part
of
it.
I
I
also
had
a
question
about
I
think
it's
section,
four
subsection,
six,
the
config
confidentiality
language,
and
so
you
know,
as
long
as
that's
narrowly
tailored
to
the
most
egregious
crimes,
I
I
think
I.
K
Think
that
you
know
it's
it's
better
than
it
was
so
so
that
was
my
question
that
that
was
more
or
less
answered,
and
you
know
I
think
we
have
short-term
issues
that
we
need
to
address
and
that's
what
this
bill
tries
to
do
is
obviously
not
fixing
the
entire
problem,
because
we
have
some
real
long-term
issues
that
we
need
to
address
and
and
part
of
those
are
some
real
Upstream
thinking.
K
We've
talked
about
Mental
Health,
Care
treatment
for
substance
use
disorders,
the
the
crimes
that
we're
looking
at
are
on
a
you
know,
huge
spectrum
of
of
severity,
so
that
all
needs
to
be
taken
into
consideration,
I,
so
I.
You
know
I
applaud
everyone's
efforts.
I
I
look
forward
to
continuing
the
work
on
this.
K
Some
of
the
questions
that
came
up
during
the
the
conversations
in
drafting
this
language
were
around
Mental
Health
Care
during
incarceration
and
something
that
we've
directed
the
cabinet
to
do
for
adults
is
to
apply
for
an
1115
waiver
to
allow
for
treatment
during
incarceration
and
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
the
juvenile
system,
Juvenile
justice
system
is
able
to
provide
that
same
Continuum
Continuum
of
Care
for
the
kids
who
are
in
the
system,
and
so
with
representative
bratcher's
permission.
I
will
submit
an
amendment
to
the
the
bill
on
the
floor.
K
That
does
just
that
that
directs
the
cabinet
to
apply
for
either
a
waiver
or
a
state
plan
amendment
to
allow
for
treatment
during
incarceration.
So
just
wanted
to
make
folks
aware
of
that
that
we
are
thinking
about
that.
We
know
the
importance
of
of
treating
the
the
kids
when
they
are,
you
know,
hopefully
being
treated
and
that
were
correcting
behavior
and
not
just
making
better
criminals.
The
last
thing
I'll
say
is,
as
I
was
reading
through
the
bill.
K
Some
of
the
long-term
Solutions
I
think
that
we
should
look
at
and
I,
don't
know
whether
we
put
it
in
statute
or
not,
but
there's
some
programs
around
restorative
justice
that
I
think
could
be
really
valuable
in
in
the
juvenile
justice
system,
so
I'm
full
of
ideas,
I'm
happy
to
share
those
and
I
look
forward
to
working
with
all
of
you.
Thanks.
A
A
You,
representative
Bradford
your
guess.
We
will
now
take
some
testimony
from
the
opponents
I'm
going
to
first
call
up
Scott
West
from
DPA
if
he
would
come
to
the
podium
or
the
table.
M
Thank
you.
My
name
is
Scott
West
I'm,
the
deputy
public
advocate
for
the
Department
of
Public
advocacy,
and
you
will
probably
hear
a
lot
today
about
the
bill
if
it
works
as
it's
intended.
But
I
wanted
to
limit
my
comments
to
the
unintended
consequences
of
the
bill,
including
the
committee
sub.
If
it's
passed
as
is,
and
the
first
one
is
the
word
admission,
juvenile
practitioners
consider
that
a
term
of
Art
it's
the
word
we
use
instead
of
enter
a
guilty
plea.
M
We
have
a
different
word
for
everything
in
juvenile
practice:
we're
trying
to
take
the
stigma
of
crime
away
from
this
and
and
build
better
adults
from
the
children
that
we
represent
and
that
the
that
the
system
has
to
take
care
of.
So
when
we
say
admission
wherever
it
appears,
it
means
there's
already
been
a
first
appearance.
There's
been
some
lawyerine.
There
may
have
been
a
pre-trial
conference
and
now
it's
time
to
enter
what,
in
the
adult
case,
would
be
a
guilty
plea,
but
an
admission
in
the
case
of
a
child.
M
The
problem
is,
admission
is
not
really
defined
in
the
juvenile
code
and
it
has
a
lay
person's
definition
and
confession,
which
is
a
word
I
heard
confessed
can
be
the
same
as
admitted,
and
the
problem
is
that
that
means
that
something
that
might
have
been
worked
down
or
might
have
been
might
have
been
resulted
in
admitting
to
an
offense.
That
is
not
one
of
the
exceptions
to
the
confidentiality
requirements.
It
might
be
too
late.
For
instance,
a
child
runs
out
of
Walmart.
M
Let's
say
that
a
child
has
shoplifted
a
box
of
candy
for
his
sweetheart
and
on
the
way,
he's
accosted
by
someone
at
Walmart
who's,
a
risk
manager
and
knocks
the
person
down,
and
they
get
a
scanned
knee
misdemeanor
theft,
misdemeanor
assault,
the
police
officer,
apprehends
the
child
and
says:
did
you
do
that?
The
child
says
yes,
I
did
what
the
child
doesn't
know
is
the
child
was
just
admitted
to
robbery
first
facts,
because
this
is
used
to
physical,
forge
force
to
effectuate
a
crime.
M
If
I'm,
the
lawyer,
I
hope
I
am
I'm
going
to
get
that
knocked
down
to
something
other
than
robbery.
First,
that
won't
meet
the
definition
of
what's
going
to
be
Exempted
from
the
confidentiality
records,
but
it
may
be
too
late
if
someone
says
well,
he
admitted
it.
He
confessed.
We
can
talk
about
it.
Now
we
can
release
the
records.
M
So
that's
one
unintended
consequence
that
that
I
think
that
this
bill
presents
the
second
one
is
the
five-year
limitation
I,
don't
know
how
effective
that
will
be,
because
there
are
paid
research
firms
out
there.
You
can
pay
a
fee
to
research.
Anybody
you
want
to
hire.
Maybe
someone
you
want
to
fire
heck
I,
don't
know!
Maybe
someone
you
want
to
marry,
I,
don't
know,
but
you
pay
a
fee
to
these
people
and
they
will
have
gone
through
all
of
the
records
that
they
can
legally
acquire
they'll
go
to
all
120
counties.
M
They
will
find
out
any
any
case
that
there
is
out
there
and
they'll
put
it
in
their
database
and
it's
there
forever
and
so
they'll
sell
that
back
to
you,
5
10,
15
years
from
now
and
I.
Don't
think
that
that's
addressed,
there's
too
many
commercial
people
out
there
that
prey
on
all
of
the
things
that
that
we
do
that
become
a
public
record
at
some
point
in
their
life
that
we
may
not
even
know
about
I
want
to
talk
about
children
under
under
10..
M
This
provision,
on
its
face
would
seem
to
say
that
if
a
child
under
10
commits
one
of
the
enumerated
crimes
in
sec
in
chapter
532,
that
that
also
would
be
something
that
would
be
subject
to
disclosure
and
it's
good
I'm.
Just
speaking
on
that,
it's
also
where
it's
going
to
be
something
that
they
can
be
detained
for
right
now.
M
And
so
when
a
judge
decides
what
they're
going
to
do
with
this
10
year
old
or
eight-year-old
or
nine-year-old,
then
they
take
that
into
consideration
and
they
look
for
those
things.
But
that's
going
to
happen
only
after
a
detention
hearing
or
add
a
detention
hearing,
and
this
bill
talks
about
pending
detention,
hearing
of
an
automatic
detention
what's
going
to
happen
to
the
eight-year-olds,
the
nine-year-olds
we
heard
in
the
news
about
a
six-year-old
in
another
state
that
was
accused
of
of
doing
exactly
one
of
the
crimes
that
would
be
considered
in
this
bill.
M
So
we're
going
to
have
to
is
that
what
we
want
to
do
and
do
we
want
a
six-year-old
or
seven-year-old
to
be
automatically
detained
pending
A
detention
hearing,
or
do
we
want
to
make
a
judge
to
make
that
ruling
after
the
judge
has
determined
that
there
is
no
suitable
placement
or
at
least
alternative
restriction,
and
then,
finally,.
M
M
It's
going
to
be
a
sister
office
that
walks
the
field,
or
it's
going
to
be
a
paid
contract
attorney
out
there
to
represent
one
of
the
parents
or
maybe
both
of
the
parents
and
because,
when
you
put
them
under
orders
in
the
juvenile
case,
the
only
way
the
court
can
enforce.
Orders
is
through
its
contempt
powers
and
whether
it's
a
civil
contempt
and
they
say
that
the
person
in
the
Civil
contempt
has
the
keys
to
the
jail
or
criminal
contempt
for
its
punishment
for
violating
the
order.
M
It's
still
jail
time
that
carries
the
possibility,
well
carries
the
possibility
of
jail
time
and
therefore
they're
entitled
to
counsel.
This
will
not
help
things.
If
you
start
throwing
lawyers
in
on
this,
and
we
could
have
as
many
as
three
lawyers
in
the
case
and
like
I
say:
if
the
facts
are
there,
our
juvenile
practitioners
find
them
and
that's
how
they
get
the
case
into
juvenile.
M
A
N
Even
though
I've
turned
my
life
around
I
still
feel.
The
repercussions
of
my
days
in
active
addiction
I
still
feel
that
I
do
not
belong
in
this
room.
I
physically
shake
at
the
thought
of
sharing
information.
I
know
to
be
true
and
I
feel
that
my
reputation
then
will
forever
override
my
reputation
now
I
blame
the
system
I
was
thrown
into
and
how
dehumanized
I
was
from
a
young
age.
N
When
I
think
about
my
incarceration,
my
heart
breaks
for
any
child
who
may
have
to
go
through
the
same
thing.
I
was
held
in
the
cell
for
several
hours
after
my
court
hearing
alone,
and
the
room
was
freezing.
I
did
not
get
to
say
goodbye
to
my
mother
and
no
one
spoke
to
me
until
I
was
Shackled
and
delivered
to
the
Detention
Facility
on
arrival.
I
was
Frisk
and
extremely
aggressive,
Manner
and
I
felt,
violated
and
degraded
speaking
or
even
looking
at
another.
N
I
experienced,
suicidal
thoughts
for
the
first
time
in
my
life,
while
incarcerated
and
I
had
no
one
to
talk
to
about
what
I
was
going
through.
There's
no
research
to
suggest
placing
children
in
detention
reduces
crime
in
communities.
However,
research
does
suggest
those
same
children
have
a
much
greater
chance
of
being
detained
as
adults.
N
Research
also
suggests
treatment,
coupled
with
therapy
decreases
the
chances
of
an
individual
committing
a
crime
to
intervene,
remove
and
confine
or
typical
solutions
to
issues,
situations
and
people.
We
see
as
dangerous
I
challenge
that
strategy
and
ask
that
we
every
person
in
here
take
a
deeper
look
into
what
causes
children
to
end
up
in
courtrooms.
N
N
O
Thank
you,
representative
Elliott,
and
thank
you
to
the
committee
members.
My
name
is
Kent.
Gilbert
I
represent
the
Kentucky
Council
of
churches,
which
is
16
Regional
bodies
of
11
different
denominations
in
the
Commonwealth,
including
Roman,
Catholic
and
Protestants,
black
and
white
rural
and
urban
congregations.
O
Many
of
your
Traditions
are
represented
in
in
our
in
our
deliberations
for
75
years.
The
Kentucky
Council
of
churches
has
deliberated
on
matters
of
public
interest
and
particularly
in
terms
of
how
we
best
care
for
one
another.
We
have
long-standing
policies
on
Justice
and
Justice
Reform
and,
as
you
might
imagine,
we
don't
like
to
think
that
anyone
is
irredeemable.
We
have
some
concerns
about
this
bill
as
it
currently
stands
and
about
the
committee
substitute.
O
The
churches
and
other
Faith
communities,
as
you
know,
have
an
historical
and
ongoing
concern
with
the
welfare
of
Youth,
in
particular,
including
youth
offenders,
and
from
the
standpoint
of
those
of
us
who
are
involved.
Some
of
the
oldest
care
facilities
for
justice
involved.
Youth
I've
been
from
a
religious
origin.
O
The
means
the
denominations
of
the
KCC
represent
have
have
had
on
the
ground
contact
with
those
providing
services
to
Youth
and
to
their
families.
It's
important
to
say
that
the
matters
we're
discussing
are
not
simply
limited
to
a
single
individual,
but
in
fact,
when
you
incarcerate
someone
or
even
accuse
one
of
a
crime,
you
involve
an
entire
system
of
care
concerned,
but
also
retribution
and
other
involved
individuals.
O
It's
where
it
may
meet
with
the
particular
requirements
of
legislation
to
remove
that
seems
both
irresponsible
and
inappropriate
in
the
sense
of
trying
to
get
the
state's
best
interests
in
at
play.
A
judge
is
the
one
best
capable
in
those
moments
to
determine
how
it
might
best
play
forward,
nothing
in
the
data,
nothing
in
the
advice
of
the
youth
and
criminal
justice.
Experts
even
suggests
that
this
bill
is
an
answer
to
safer
communities,
which
we
all
want
and
I
I
really
respect
that
there
are
some
creative
thinking
and
I.
O
So
it's
important
that
we
are
careful
very
careful.
This
bill,
I,
don't
think
is
as
careful
as
it
needs
to
be
yet
and
I'm,
hoping
that
you
will
be
able
to
make
significant
changes,
who
built
a
tower
and
does
not
count
the
cost
or
builds
a
house
on
a
foundation
of
sand
is
something
that
comes
from
our
Christian
scripture
tradition.
O
What
we
see
is
that
this
bill
could
become
expensive,
ineffective
and,
in
fact
harmful
to
youth,
expensive,
ineffective
and
harmful,
are
not
things.
I,
think
you
want
your
names
on
so
from
those
of
us
in
the
faith
community.
We
hope
that
you
will
please
consider
what
changes
you
might
make
to
help
actually
address
crime
in
our
committees
in
our
communities,
actually
restore
youth
to
productive
lives
and
bring
about
the
society
that
we
most
hope
for.
A
E
You
Mr
chairman
I,
want
to
say
I
think
we
agree
with
what
a
lot
of
the
opponents
have
said
and
we've
taken
a
lot
of
those
things
into
account
in
drafting
this
bill.
As
representative
Bradshaw
presents
it
today,
I
do
think
you
know
beating
a
child
with
a
bigger
stick.
I
think
that
is,
that
is
hyperbole
that
doesn't
belong
in
this
conversation
about
this
bill.
E
So
so
let
me
go
back
to
First
principles
and
what
we're
trying
to
do
here.
We
have
two
goals
in
the
Juvenile
Justice
area.
One
is
a
protective
part
of
it,
protect
the
kid
and
protect
the
community,
but,
more
importantly,
in
my
view,
is
to
make
sure
that
we're
trying
to
get
the
kid
treatment.
These
are
our
kids.
We
want
them
to
be
safe,
successful,
good
citizens,
good
Mothers
and
Fathers,
and
brothers
and
sisters
for
the
rest
of
their
life.
That's
what
we're
trying
to
do.
E
Unfortunately,
in
Louisville,
we've
got
to
send
our
kids
to
a
Dare
County
in
a
situation
in
a
facility
with
staff
that
that
don't
understand
our
kids
and
they're,
not
ready
for
our
kids.
We
need
them
home,
and
so
those
two
goals
are
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish:
Safety
and
Security,
for
our
kids
and
for
our
communities,
but
also
making
sure
that
we,
we
attack
the
problems
that
that
surround
the
kid
that
are
systemic,
that
are
familial.
E
That
are
a
lot
of
things,
so
we
can,
we
can
we
can
make
that
person
whole,
and
so
they
can
be
all
they
can
be
so
we're
trying
to
do
both
of
those
things.
So
we
agree
I
think
we
agree
with
everything
that's
been
said
here
with
regard
to
the
purposes
of
our
system
and
that
we
don't
want
over
incarceration.
E
The
bill
effectively
does
two
things:
those
are
the
two
goals.
What
does
it
do?
It
does
two
things.
One
and
I
want
to
give
a
very
strong
shout
out
to
Mayor
Greenberg.
Is
it
recognizes
the
problem
in
Louisville
and
it's
not
just
Louisville,
because
it
has
a
domino
effect
all
over
our
state
when
we,
when
we
talk
to
the
to
the
people
who
run
a
Dare,
County,
McCracken,
County
they're
saying
in
others,
they're
saying
the
children
at
Louisville
are
different
and
kind
because
they're
more
gang-related.
E
So
when
someone
misbehaves
at
another
area,
it's
largely
individualized
when
the
kids
from
Louisville
are
doing
it,
it's
more
organized.
They
don't
know
where
our
kids
come
from
in
Louisville.
We
do.
We
need
our
kids
home.
We
need
them
with
us
where
their
families
can
see
them
where
we
can
have
more
services,
and
so
that's
what
we're
trying
to
do
we're
trying
to
do
two
things
on
this
bill.
One
solve
the
Louisville
problem
and
thanks
to
Mayor
Greenberg
we're
going
to
get
the
the
facility
that
the
general
assembly
is
putting
a
lot
of
money
into.
E
So
we
can
have
kids
in
a
safe
place
where
we
can
focus
on
programming,
where
we
can
focus
on
Mental,
Health,
substance,
abuse,
abuse,
programming
and
all
the
other
things
that
they
need.
They
go
to
school.
President.
James.
Excuse
me:
Mary
James
mentioned
that
he
knows
of
a
kid
who
got
a
diploma,
my
God,
that's
what
we
want.
Isn't
it
what
we
want
if
they
can't
do
it
outside
the
outside
the
walls?
Let's
get
a
system
where
we
can
do
it
inside
the
walls.
E
That's
not
shipping,
our
kids,
two
and
a
half
hours
to
Adair
County.
We
want
those
things,
but
we
also
have
to
realize.
I
talked
to
a
Jefferson,
County
district
judge,
and
she
said
and-
and
everybody
on
here
that
was
on
that
committee
representative
you'll.
Remember
this
as
well
I
prayed
on
this
a
lot.
We
had
a
judge
that
came
in
and
talked
to
us
and
she
said
I'm
presented
with
two
options
and
man
they're
terrible
option.
E
Number
one
send
the
kid
who's
just
committed
or
been
accused
of
committing
a
very
serious
crime
back
to
the
house.
His
mom
is
saying:
please
don't
do
it
I
can't
control
him
I,
don't
know
what
he's
going
to
do
he's
going
to
hurt
himself
or
somebody
else-
that's
option
one.
So
I
don't
want
to
do
that.
E
So
what
we're
trying
to
do
here
is
we're
trying
to
say:
let's
get
a
facility
where
we
can
protect
our
kids
and
put
programs
in
it
like
crazy.
That's
what
we
want.
We
want
that
judge
to
have
a
third
option.
That's
what
this
bill
is
trying
to
do.
So
we
agree
with
a
lot
of
what
the
opponents
have
said.
E
I'm
not
sure
your
opponents
I
know
we
have
some
things
that
we
have
to
work
out
on
the
in
the
records
and
so
forth
and
representative
bratcher's
talked
about
he's
willing
to
he's
willing
to
do,
but
but
those
are
the
things.
So,
let's
talk,
I'm
gonna
go
through
quick,
quickly,
confidentiality.
If
someone
has
committed
a
gun
crime
at
17
and
a
half
I,
don't
want
him
to
get
a
gun
at
18
in
a
day,
so
I
don't
know
how
you
make
it
confidential
for
some
things,
but
but
make
sure
he
can't
go,
get
an
AR-15.
E
When
he's
18
years
old.
We
know
he
can't
get
a
handgun
until
he's
21
because
of
Kentucky
law,
but
those
records
should
be
public
for
some
things
right
well,
I
think
I
hope
we
would
agree
on
some
of
those
things.
So
how
do
you
balance
it?
I,
don't
know
I,
don't
know
how
you
thread
that
needle,
but
that's
what
we're
trying
to
do.
Republicans,
Democrats,
Urban
rural
I,
don't
see
much
different
here.
We
have
commended
the
governor
on
doing
a
lot
of
things
that
he's
done.
E
I'm
talking
too
much,
but
I
want
to
say
that
we're
trying
to
thread
the
needle
we
have
got
to
save
our
kids,
our
communities,
our
families,
our
people
are
broken,
we're
broken
and
we're
trying
to
bring
wholeness
back
and
the
fourth,
the
foremost
and
representative
Bradshaw's
mind
because
I've
talked
to
him.
100
times
is
how
do
you
protect
the
community?
But,
as
importantly
is,
how
do
you
make
that
kid
backyard?
Getting
back
on
track?
E
Show
them
love,
show
them
discipline
whatever
is
required,
get
them
that
get
them
that
substance
abuse
training
whatever
it
is
to,
let
them
be
all
that
they
can
be.
So
this
is
a
very
important
bill.
It
must
pass
we'll
talk
about
the
changes,
the
edges
that
we
have
to.
We
have
to
have
on
it.
The
kids
at
10,
Mr
West,
has
mentioned
the
admission.
E
If
we
need
to
change
that
language
I
think
I
think
no
one
is
is
wanting
to
to
do
what
you
suggested
and
so
I
think
this
is
an
important
bill
and
I
really
think
we're
all
pulling
from
the
same
side
of
the
Rope
here
and
so
Mr
chairman
I
I
hope
everyone
votes.
E
Yes,
after
this
meeting
I
know
representative
Bradshaw
said
he's:
gonna
he's
gonna
talk
to
some
more
people,
but
we've
got
a
problem
here,
guys
and,
let's
not
just
think
to
say
no,
because
one
side
or
the
other
is
four
something
or
get
something.
We've
got
to
get
our
kids,
our
kids.
We've
got
to
get
them
back
on
track,
we
got
to
show
them.
Love,
but
sometimes
love
is,
is,
is
programming
in
a
in
a
facility.
We
don't
want
it,
but
sometimes
that's
the
that's
the
that's.
E
K
A
J
Past
May
qualify
my.
C
Explain
that
yes
vote,
please!
Yes,
you
may
first
I'd
like
to
commend
representative
Badger
for
all
of
his
hard
work
on
this
very
important
topic
that
that
likely
would
have
been
potentially
overlooked
by
this
General
Assembly.
If
he
had
not
focused
in
on
this
I
had
the
opportunity
to
serve
on
the
work
group
with
him.
There's
a
lot
to
be
done.
This
is
just
part
of
it,
but
this
does
put
things
in
the
correct
direction
and
I
vote
Yes.
L
Be
a
no
today,
however,
I
am
hoping
and
I've
said
this
to
the
bill.
Drafter
and
some
of
my
colleagues
I
would
love
to
get
to
a
point
to
where
I'm
70,
75
percent
in
support
of
the
piece
of
legislation
I,
do
think
that
the
intentions
behind
the
the
sponsor
of
this
bill
is
there,
as
well
as
the
folks
who've
been
dealing
with
with
this
issue.
L
I
just
want
to
make
very
clear
that
spending
8.9
million
dollars
on
an
old
building,
and
we
have
not
done
an
assessment
on
what
that
looks
like
or
what
those
needs
are
going
to
be
like
in
five
years
or
in
10
years.
It
just
makes
me
very
hesitant.
I
know
that
we
need
to
bring
our
young
people
home.
L
However,
I
also
know
that
we
need
intervention
prevention,
alternatives
to
the
tension,
and
we
also
need
a
day
reporting,
Center
and
so
I
believe
that,
even
if
we
invested
more
funds
that
we
may
be
able
to
have
a
different
type
of
solution,
and
so
I
hope
that
I
can
continue
to
work
with
folks
to
figure
out
what
that
looks
like.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
I
I'm
going
to
pass
today,
I
want
to
applaud
the
sponsor
and
the
co-presenters
for
their
openness
and
willingness
to
amend
significant
details
that
were
brought
up
by
my
colleagues
and
by
some
of
the
other
presenters
today,
I
I
will
be
following
up
with
a
sponsor
and
I'm
hopeful
that
we
can
make
those
changes
so
that
by
the
time
it
gets
to
the
floor
we're
all
at
a
yes,
so
I
appreciate
all
the
work
that's
been
put
into
it.
Thank
you.
K
E
B
Representative
Petrie
representative
Rawlings,
yes,
representative,
sharp,
yes,
representative,
Stevenson,
representative
Wilson,
yes,
chairman
Elliott,.