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From YouTube: House Budget Review Subcommittee on Primary & Secondary Education & Workforce Development (2-21-23)
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A
A
Today
we
have
presentations
from
the
education
and
labor
department
and
they
will
be
presenting
an
overview
of
the
working
work.
Workers
Compensation
Program
at
this
time,
I'm
going
to
swear
you
in.
If
you
please
raise
your
right
hand,
do
you
solemnly
swear
to
tell
the
truth
the
whole
truth
and
nothing
but
the
truth.
A
C
C
E
F
E
All
right
well
good
morning,
it's
again
a
pleasure
to
meet
everyone
here
today
and
see
everyone
I'm
proud
to
be
in
front
of
this
committee.
I
come
from
a
family
of
Educators,
where
education
was
first
and
foremost
my
sister
was
a
teacher.
My
brother
is
still
a
teacher.
My
mother
taught
a
one-room
classroom
in
Bullitt
County
Kentucky,
so
education
has
always
been
a
core
of
everything
that
my
family
has
been
through
all
these
years.
E
What
we're
here
today
about
is
to
talk
about
workers
claims
workers
claims
is
probably
one
of
the
best
or
the
most
successful
combination
of
government
and
private
sector
working
together.
It
has
also
been
since
1916
when
it
was
created.
It's
also
been
one
of
the
most
pro-economic
pro-growth
programs.
We
have
Kentucky
that
not
only
allows
continuation
of
our
economic,
our
economy,
but
also
ensures
the
safety
of
our
workers
across
the
Commonwealth.
E
We
also
operate
the
these,
the
second
largest
court
system
in
the
state
all
the
way
across
the
state.
When
someone
has
a
workers,
compensation
claim
and
they're
litigating
that
claim
we
have
a
panel
of
17
mystery
of
law.
Judges
who
hear
those
claims
to
rule
if
as
to
who
is
entitled
to
what
benefits
and
so
forth
within
the
Kentucky
workers.
Compensation
act
what's
important
about
the
workers.
Compensation
act
is
that
there's
two
parts
I
want
to
go
over
here.
E
Real,
quick,
first
of
all,
to
the
injured
worker
covers
all
workers,
with
a
few
exceptions
in
the
state
of
Kentucky
the
injured
worker
will
receive,
and
that
means
someone
who
has
injured
themselves
in
the
course
of
scope
of
their
employment
and
with
work
is
entitled
to
medical
treatment
and
partial
wage
benefits.
Medical
treatment,
probably
is
one
of
the
most
important
things.
What's
key
to
the
medical
treatment
that's
received
in
workers
comp,
there
is
no
deductible.
There
is
no
out-of-pocket
expense.
E
The
worker
is
100
percent
covered
from
the
moment
that
injury
occurs
until
until
actually
until
the
benefits
and
pre
4
19
to
2018.
There
were
lifetime
benefits,
and
now
they
potentially
can
still
be,
but
there's
a
cap
of
780
weeks,
workers
compensation
when
I
talked
about
before
being
a
pro-economic
pro-growth
program
is
the
employ
it
is.
It
is
considered
because
in
part,
it's
the
employee's
sole
resource
against
the
employer.
E
The
employee
does
not
have
to
improve
fault,
however,
as
part
of
this
Grand
bargain
of
where
we
have
workers
compensation
coverage,
the
important
part
is
that
for
the
employer,
the
employer
has
a
known
fixed
cost
as
to
what
the
potential
liability
will
be
for
that
injury.
If
you
didn't
this
is
where
it's
different
than
say.
Like
automobile
accident,
an
automobile
accident,
you
have
all
the
remit,
all
those
damages
out
there
Pune
to
damages
mental
anguish,
all
those
and
you
have
to
prove
fault-
that's
not
true
in
workers,
comp
and
workers
comp.
E
The
idea
is
to
eliminate
fault
in
exchange
for
the
limiting
fault,
the
the
employer
pays,
a
workers,
compensation
premium,
the
workers,
compensation,
insurance
coverage
and
it's
called
The
Exclusive
remedy,
meaning
that
those
a
civil
lawsuit
cannot
be
filed
by
an
injured
worker.
Instead,
they
go
through
the
administrative
process
and
it
gets
adjudicated
to
the
ministry
of
launches
as
I
referenced.
A
few
moments
before
this
program
has
worked.
E
It
has
continued
to
work
since
1916
for
the
hundred
pass
106
106
years
now
going
on,
it's
proven
itself
to
be
a
valuable
part
of
the
partnership
between
business
and
the
labor
force.
E
Just
to
run
down
a
couple
of
General
statistics.
Keep
you
all
enjoyed
on
this.
There
are
about
22
000,
first
report
of
injuries
we
get
annually
from
the
from
workers
across
the
state.
This
could
be
anything
from
a
hurt
back
to
a
hurt
foot
to
catastrophic
injury
anything
and
which
an
employee
loses
at
least
a
day
of
work
of
those
22
000
claims,
12
021
result
in
some
type
of
financial
benefit
that
could
be
wage
benefits.
E
The
indemnity
benefits
could
also
be
that
medical
care
which
I
just
previously
addressed
of
those
twelve
thousand
twenty
one
claims.
Four
thousand
seven
hundred.
Seventy
four
of
the
claims
go
to
litigation
and
20
adjudicated
to
the
ministry
of
law,
which
is
about
twenty
percent,
are
adjudicated
by
the
ministry
of
law
judge
those
are
the
claims
in
which
they
go
all
the
way
to
an
administrative
hearing
for
the
benefits
and
of
those
claims
about
164,
go
to
appeal
to
the
Workers
Compensation
Board
and
from
the
not
to
bore
you
all
further.
E
E
So
we
have
this
administrative
process,
you
go
through
the
file,
the
claim
the
ministry
of
law
judge,
Process,
reviews
that
claim
goes
to
the
administrative
Court
of
the
Workers
Compensation
Board,
and
then,
if
the
appeal
from
that
it
goes
to
the
court
of
appeal,
which
is
the
court
of
original
jurisdiction
and
from
their
Supreme
Court.
That's
the
exception.
Most
of
the
time,
these
cases
are
worked
out,
Way
Beyond,
that,
before
that,
before
we
ever
get
to
that
point.
E
In
addition,
I'd
like
to
go
about
with
employers
with
employers
are
required
to
do
as
I
mentioned
beforehand.
All
employees,
with
a
very
few
exceptions,
such
as
agricultural
workers,
are
covered
by
workers.
Compensation.
Every
employer
must
must
secure
an
obligation
to
for
compensation
to
injure
employees.
Two
ways
that's
done
two
ways:
one
is
through
your
typical
workers:
competence
insurance
premium
you
go
buy
a
private.
The
employer
buys
a
private
policy
workers,
compensation
coverage
or
depositing
security
with
the
Department
workers
claims.
If
you're
self-insured,
the
self-insured
players
which
we
have
deal
will
have
about
400.
E
How
benefits
are
what
type
of
benefits
we
get
I've
already
made
reference
to
Medicals
Medicals
again
are
no
no
cost
to
the
employee
at
all.
No
out-of-pocket,
no
deductible
is
completely
covered
for
all
reasonable
and
necessary.
Medical
Care
in
terms
of
Indemnity
are
money
benefits.
There
are
three
types
of
money
benefits
which
were
our
energy
workers
entitled
under
the
ACT.
E
There's
temporary
total
disability
often
referred
to
as
TTD
there's
permanent
partial
disability
for
one
of
PPD
and
there's
permanent
total
disability,
which,
as
you
can
tell
from
the
that
title,
is
for
someone
who
is
deemed
to
be
totally
disabled.
Unable
to
return
back
to
the
to
the
marketplace.
Temporary
to
disability
is
two-thirds
of
the
claimant's
average
weekly
wage.
It's
not
a
full
wage
replacement.
It's
two-thirds
of
the
average
weekly
wage.
E
You
get
your
TTD,
which
is
two-thirds
of
your
average
weekly
wage
once
I
claimant,
when
one
of
two
events
occurred,
if
they
reaches
a
condition
called
maximum
medical
improvement,
MMI
or
they've
returned
to
work
once
that
occurs,
they
can
either
say.
Okay,
thank
you!
That's
all
I
want,
or
they
have
the
right
to
pursue
a
permanent
under
partial
disability,
a
PPD
and
the
way
the
PPD
is
determined.
We
have
a
formula
in
this
book
under
krs-342730
that
takes
the
percentage
of
disability.
E
A
big,
thick
green
book
called
the
AMA
guys
impairment
and
it
lists
everything
from
a
broken
toe
to
something
wrong
with
your
head,
and
it
lists
different
with
a
different
part
of
body
parts.
What
that
percentage
would
be
to
the
whole
person
to
that
part.
That
number
goes
into
a
formula:
that's
self-worthy
act
to
make
a
determination
as
to
the
level
of
primary
partial
disability
benefits.
That
claim
is
entitled
to
if
it's
less
than
520.
If
it's
less
than
50
percent,
the
claimant
receives
a
total
of
425
weeks
of
PPD.
E
If
it's
50
or
more
they
receive
520
weeks,
is
a
total,
a
total
word.
That's
and
there's
some
few
statutory
provisions
of
what
actually
equals
a
total.
For
instance,
blindness
double
amputation,
some
of
the
truly
catastrophic
it
doesn't
have
to
be
those
statutory
ones
can
also
be
deemed
if
a
person's
just
it's
just
the
AHA
Ministry
of
law,
just
fine
that,
based
upon
the
person's
Education
Health
each
so
forth,
that
person
cannot
return
to
work.
They
then
get.
E
Basically,
they
get
the
two
what's
equivalent
or
close
to
that
TTD
amount
for
for
their
life
for
the
most
important
to
life
expectancy.
So
we
have
three
types
of
benefits:
they're
designed
to
do
I
say
all
this
and
keep
in
mind
what
we
are
really
trying
to
do
at
workers.
Comp
I
talk
about
the
total
claims,
but
the
whole
goal
of
workers
comp.
The
main
emphasis
of
workers
comp
is
to
get
those
Injured
Workers
back
into
the
workplace.
E
We
have
benefit
set
up
such
that
we
have
rehabilitation
services
we
have
benefits
set
up,
so
we
can
help
that
worker
to
get
him
back
into
the
back
into
the
workforce.
The
vast
majority
of
workers
out
there,
who
get
injured,
do
in
fact
return
to
work
for
those
workers
who
cannot
return
to
work.
We
have
that
safety
net
that
permanent
total
disability
award.
The
judge
finds
that
to
for
that
for
those
individuals,
but
again,
what's
important
for
the
employer.
The
employer
knows
what
those
damages.
E
What
that
cost
is
going
to
be
because
the
employer
pays
a
workers
comp
premium
and
doesn't
have
to
wait
for
the
results
and
see
what
happens
with
the
roll
of
dice
with
a
jury
in
a
civil
case,
and
as
we
can
see
what
the
true
benefit
was
called.
The
Grand
bargain
with
workers
comp
and
Compasses
also
regard
to
Medicals
Medicals
and
workers.
E
Comp
are
governed
by
a
fee
schedule
so
that
you
know,
if
you,
if
you
all
get
your
insurance
I,
have
some
explanation
benefits
and
the
insurance
company
says
how
much
the
charge
may
be
X,
and
then
we
actually
pay.
Why
same
thing
through
a
workers,
comp
there's
a
published
fee
schedule
we
put
out
every
year.
E
But
the
by
the
first
part
I
want
to
stress
is
that
the
special
fund
was
created
in
1946
and
had
a
different
name
at
that
point
at
that
time
was
called
the
second
injury
fund
and
it
was
designed
with
the
idea
we
had
all
these
veterans,
many
of
them
disabled
returning
from
from
War
and
World
War
II
and
was
difficult
for
some
of
the
employers
to
say
well,
I,
don't
know
if
I
should
take
this
worker
he's
got
problems.
He's
got
issues,
am
I
going
to
be
stuck
with
the
Medicals
for
this
individual.
E
So,
instead
as
an
incentive
to
bring
those
workers
into
the
work,
the
the
state
created
the
subsequent
entry
fund
to
help
create
what
it.
What
it
basically
meant
was
anything
that
was
a
pre-existing
dormant
condition
that
would
occur
not
because
of
an
accident
work,
but
the
state
would
pick
up
that
dormant
part
of
it,
and
so
the
only
the
part,
that's
called
the
active
condition
occurred
by
the
injury
most
most
common
example
of
a
pre-existing
dormant
condition.
E
I've
been
practicing
workers
comp
for
about
33
years
or
so
the
number
one
we
always
used
to
see
are
backs
back
injuries.
Your
back
may
hurt.
You
may
have
had
back
problems.
You
may
have
underlying
degenerative
disc
disease
in
your
back
you're
able
to
work
you're
able
to
do
your
job.
However,
you
have
an
accident
work,
and
now
you
can't
well
what
the
termination
of
a
pre-assisting
dormant
condition
is.
E
What
part
of
that
is
attributable
to
this
dormant
condition
that
existed
before
the
injury
and
what
part
was
aroused
into
a
present
day,
disabling
Reality
by
the
injury
itself?
That's
what
I
mean
by
a
dormant
condition
that
kind
of
kind
of
segregated
out
that
part
of
it,
the
worker,
the
special
fund
or
the
secondary
injury
fund,
was
expanded
in
1960
to
cover
those
pre-existing
government
conditions.
It
was
renamed
a
special
Fund
in
1964
just
to
go
through
some
more
name
changes.
E
It
went
through,
but
probably
the
most
for
the
biggest
change
in
terms
of
that
special
fund
that
cover
those
pre-existing
dormant
conditions
came
as
a
result
of
the
extraordinary
sessions
took
place
in
1996..
E
E
That's
why
everybody
refers
to
us
still
and
that's
what
you'll
hear
when
I
hear
today.
If
you
hear
the
different
terms,
you
see
that
term,
it's
a
special
fund
on
that
just
a
couple
of
Statistics
won't
bore
you
completely.
With
this
back
in
2002,
we
had
1100
and
11
600
claimants
and
beneficiaries
at
90
million
were
paid
in
benefits
over
the
course
of
20
years.
Excuse
me
that
number
has
been
going
down.
It
continues
to
go
down.
In
2022
we
had
34
claimants,
we
passed
approximately
34
billion
paid
in
benefits.
E
Now
these
last
two
numbers
I
want
to
talk
about
a
second.
Let
me
take
a
drink
of
water
here
from
May
our
friend.
What
we
do
we
and
I'm
gonna
I'm,
taking
a
little
bit
out
of
order,
but
I
want
to
address
this.
The
special
fund
is
able
to
do
what
it
does
because
of
two
things:
we're
going
to
talk
about
an
assessment
that
comes
on
the
premiums.
Every
time
you
buy
a
workers
compensation
policy.
There
is
at
that
premium.
E
There
is
assessment
contained
on
that
policy
that
goes
to
help
fund
the
special
fund
and
the
operations
of
the
department
workers
claims.
Why
that's
important,
too,
is
not
only
for
the
operations
Department
claims,
but
to
make
sure
there
are
sufficient
funds
to
cover
these
claimants,
who
are
still
out
there
to
make
sure
we
have
that
the
goal
being
that
we're,
of
course,
statutory
that
the
Suns
is
called
the
sunset
provision.
The
sunset:
this
assessment
is
opposed
to
sunset
on
December
31st
2029.
E
Let
me
try
it
again:
511.5
million
dollars
with
a
special
fund,
but
also
89.5
million
dollars
for
the
insured
employers
fund.
Let
me
quickly
tell
you
about
the
unsure
employers
fund.
That's
another
fund
out
there.
Now,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
everyone
in
Kentucky
is
required
to
have
Workers
Compensation
Insurance.
Every
employer
is
required
to
have
workers
comp
well,
unfortunately,
not
every
employer
does
and
we
have
a
division.
E
A
security
enforcement
division
that
goes
around
and
spots
checks
on
leads
to
make
sure
that
employers
have
their
workers
comp
coverage,
but
unfortunately
we
can't
find
everyone,
there's
always
going
to
be
some
that
are
do
not
oftentimes.
It's
businesses
that
are
struggling
are
ones
that
really
can
they're
cutting
costs
or
so
for
that
point,
but
again
we're
required
to
have
special
fund
and
oftentimes.
When
I
talk
to
folks
individuals
say
well,
do
I
really
have
to
get
special
I
have
to
get
that
workers.
Compensation
I
said
number
one:
is
the
law
but
number
two?
E
If
you
don't
get
it,
you
don't
get
the
protection
of
exclusive
remedy.
If
you
don't
get
it
you're
injured,
worker
no
longer
comes
your
injured
worker.
Your
interworker
can
end
up
owning
your
company
from
filing
a
lawsuit
against
you
for
personal
injury
and
damages.
So
they
usually
see
that's
all
great
parking
to
get
a
workers
compensation
coverage
as
opposed
to
going
through
this,
but
what
we
do
have
for
those
employees
who
are
injured
on
the
job
and
the
employer
did
not
carry
mandatory
workers
compensation
coverage.
E
We
have
the
uninsured
employers
fund,
it's
actually
division,
that's
run
by
the
Attorney
General's
office
and
what
they
do.
If
a
claimant
gets
injured
on
the
job,
let's
say:
bye,
Bob's,
Tire,
Service
or
Bob's
Tree
Service,
you
pick
it
gets
injured
by
the
job
and
Bob's
tree
service
or
Bob's.
Tire
Service
doesn't
have
workers
compensation
coverage
somebody's
got
to
pay
that
bill.
So
what
happens?
E
Is
the
uninsured
employers
coverage
fund
comes
in
and
acts
as
a
substitute
to
step
in
as
the
surrogate
or
the
as
these
statutory
substitute
to
make
sure
that
to
make
sure
the
benefits
are
covered
and
what
it
does?
It
pays
out
benefits
as
if
it
was
the
employer.
Now
what
that
what
the
insurer
employers
fund
can
also,
then
too,
it
can
then
go
back
after
that
employer
and
get
dollar
for
dollar
the
money
that
was
paid.
Unfortunately
often
what
happens
is
those
are
businesses
that
don't
have
the
resources.
E
So
that's
why
we
end
up
having
to
this
assessment.
If
it
was
a
dollar
for
dollar,
we
could
go
back
and
get
every
single
dollar
that
was
paid
out
great
in
the
real
world.
It
doesn't
happen
that
way
so
part
of
that
assessment
that
goes
on.
That
premium
goes
to
fund
the
underserved
employers
fund
to
ensure
that
that
safety
net
is
still
there.
For
that
part,
so
I
want
to
explain
what
the
uef
is
is
in
the
workers
comp
all
right,
we'll
switch
gears
here
just
a
little
bit
and
talk
about
guarantee
funds.
E
I'm
going
to
talk
about
three
types
of
guarantee
funds
guarantee
funds
are
part
of
the
workers,
compensation
act.
They
were
created
in
1996.
three
types
of
funds.
We
have
the
Kentucky
individual
self-insurance
fund,
we
have
Kentucky
coal
producers
fund,
self-insurance
fund
and
the
Kentucky
group
self-insurance
fund.
What
these
funds
did
are
amalgamation
with
a
lot
of
these
self-insurance
groups,
basically
to
get
together
and
and
pool
their
resources
in
essence,
to
take
care
of
any
claims
that
come
from
these
resources
of
those
three
groups.
E
The
Kentucky
self-insurance
fund
individual
self-insurance
fund,
the
co-employer
self-insurance
fund,
they
all
are
under
control
and
regulation,
so
forth.
Watch
of
the
Kentucky
department
of
workers
claims
we
require
that
they
maintain
security.
We
watch
that
security
to
make
sure
that
happens.
One
group
is
outside
the
department.
Workers
claims
that
is
Kentucky
group
self-insurance
fund
and
I
won't
go
into
all
the
problems
with
that,
and
just
tell
by
my
words,
there's
some
issues
with
that.
E
In
fact,
we
were
here
last
week
testifying
about
that
group,
Insurance
Fund,
where
there's
some
issues
with
that
group
fund,
whether
or
not
they
have
sufficient
security.
That
is
the
one
fund
that
we
don't
cover
and
One
Fund
that
we
don't
maintain.
We
we
have
a
watch
over
security
over
that
and
that
they
do
not
deposit
security
in
that
and
that's
been
problematic
and
continues
to
be
in
fact,
there's
some
again
there
they
are.
They
are
looking
at
resources,
different
available
means
for
that
one
particular
group.
E
What
that
comes
to
when
I
talk
about
these
self-insurance
funds.
You're
going
to
hear-
and
you
may
hear
in
the
news
you
may
hear
from
other
information
about
an
important
date
at
that
date-
being
March
1
1997..
Why
is
that
date?
Important?
It
is.
The
dividing
line
is
the
is
the
time
in
which
delineating
on
who
is
responsible.
What
claims
prior
to
March
1
1997
the
guarantee
funds
were
only
responsible
for
claims,
I'm,
sorry,
actually,
after
March
1
1997,
the
guarantee
funds
take
care
of
those
those
claims.
E
After
that
point,
before
March
1
1997
there
was
there
was
a
problem.
There
was
no
safety
net
for
the
after
the
group
to
take
care
of
those
those
individuals.
Well,
what
we
did
we
ended
up
creating
to
take
care
of
that
was
called
the
920
Fund.
In
fact,
I
actually
I'm
going
to
get
I
kind
of
skipped
here,
just
a
little
bit.
Let
me
go
to
the
920
funds.
Two
more
there
we
go.
Thank
you,
the
920
fund.
E
It's
it's
got
a
creative
name,
because
the
920
refers
to
the
statutory
reference
it's
Keras
342.920.
Hence
we
call
it
the
920
fund,
not
very
creative,
but
that's
what
we
call
referred
to
as
the
920
fund.
The
920
fund
was
created
for
the
purpose
of
making
payments
to
employees
injured
before
March
1
1997,
when
the
security
of
formally
self-insured
employer
has
been
depleted,
it's
again
as
a
safety
net,
it's
another
one
of
those
safety
nets.
You
keep
on
hearing
me
talk
about
that.
E
E
Now
the
920
fund
is
funded
not
through
General
funds
and
not
through
the
not
through
the
assessment
of
the
premiums.
Assessment
on
the
premiums
is
funded
by
penalties
collected
under
the
UCP
unfair
claims
practice
Settlement
Act,
and
it's
also
funded
when
I
talked
about
a
few
months
ago,
when
we
go
out
and
find
employers
who
don't
have
comp
well,
one
of
the
things
that
happens
is
that
they
get
fined
and
we
find
those
employers
our
fines
range
it
can
they.
E
They
spread
the
gamut
when,
when
I
issue
a
fine,
we
also
the
course
they
get
entitled
to
due
process
on
that
fine
with
a
hearing,
those
fines
are
usually
depends
on
several
factors:
are
they
a
repeat
offender?
Are
they
how
many?
How
long
have
they
gone
without
insurance?
Are
they
have
they
have?
Is
this
a
a
not
a
done
accident,
but
only
on
all
over
again
and
also
too
at
the
next?
Did
we
find
out
about
this
because
an
accident
occurred?
E
All
these
factors
go
into
the
formulation
of
the
what
size
the
penalty
is
and
the
difference
in
the
penalty
too,
on
the
type
of
work.
It
is
the
the
type
of
work
kind
of
like
reflected
the
insurance
rate.
Someone
who
is
trimming
trees
has
a
much
more
working.
Electrical
lines,
has
a
much
more
dangerous
job
than
someone
who
well
like
me
sitting
here.
Talking
with
you
here
today,
there's
a
difference
between
that.
E
So
our
penalties
and
assessments
are
based
largely
taking
those
factors
in
consideration
that
920
fund
is
funded
through
that
that
safety
net
is
funded
through
the
assessment
of
those
penalties.
I
will
tell
you
in
all
Aussie
I
hope
that
that
fund
from
the
920
fund
from
penalties
goes
down.
I'll
tell
you
why.
That
means
we're
having
fewer
and
fewer
employers
who
are
not
going
out
there
without
employment
or
going
out
insurance
is
the
goal.
E
If
I
could
waive
the
magic
wand
that
920
fund
from
penalties
would
be
zero,
because
that
means
everyone
every
employer's
got
workers
comp
coverage.
Well,
that's
maybe
a
pipe
dream,
but
for
right
now,
that's
just
to
give
you
an
idea
that
the
goal
is
to
get
more
peop,
more
companies
to
be
employed
or
to
have
workers
compensation
coverage.
E
Now
we
receive
about
one
million
dollars
annually,
from
penalties
and
and
so
forth,
with
the
with
the
920
fund,
but
we're
paying
out
about
100
and
1
million
1.2
million
annually,
so
you'll
see
there's
a
shortfall
because
we're
paying
out
more
than
than
we're
collecting.
That's
why?
In
2023
there
was
a
year-end
appropriation
one-time
appropriation,
a
three
million
dollars
to
help
buttress
this
fund,
to
make
sure
that
that
safety
net
is
also
well
funded.
E
With
that
and
I'll
come
back
to
the
appropriation
here
in
a
few
minutes,
I
may
reference
a
few
moments
ago
to
the
funding
commission.
The
funding
commission
is
the
group
is
the
is
a
division
that
oversees
the
collection,
investment
and
distribution
of
the
funds
that
are
collected
via
the
assessment
on
the
premiums.
The
money
that's
received
from
those
assessments
they
go
to
fund
the
well
obviously
good
to
fund
the
workers,
compensation,
funding,
Commission,
assuming
they
also
fund
the
department
of
workers,
claims
the
excuse
me.
E
They
also
go
on
to
fund
the
Kentucky
occupational
safety
and
health
and
the
uninsured
employers
fund,
which
I
just
spent
some
time
describing
what
they
are
all
key
divisions
that
all
combine
to
help
make
sure
that
department
workers
claims
are
that
workers
compensation
in
general
is
there
to
protect
workers
that
funding
source
again
I
keep
on
referencing
that
assessment.
That
assessment
right
now
stands
at
6.94
percent.
E
Incidentally,
something
that
we're
proud
of
saying
that
assessment
rate
has
continued
to
go
down:
go
down,
go
down
also
the
premiums
where
employers
have
continued
to
go
down
down,
I
think
we're
now
going
into
our
17th
year
of
workers.
Compensation
insurance
premiums
are
going
down
many
factors
for
that,
including
safer
workplaces,
employers
being
more
attentive
to
the
to
the
safety
of
the
workers,
but
also
too
just
as
we
keep
on
going
down.
That's
a
good
sign.
E
That's
that's
a
good
thing
that
we
do
and
again
with
that
of
that
assessment,
that
assessment:
oh,
not
premium
dollar,
it
goes
to
fund
those
various
divisions
of
the
department
of
workers
claims,
let's
and
what
I
want
to
go
on
and
talk
about
the
work.
Additionally,
what
the
function
with
the
workers,
compensation,
funding,
Commission
what
the
money
goes
to
as
well,
what
projections
are
a
few
moments
ago?
E
I
talked
about
this
sunset,
this
sunset
provision
which
we're
going
to
make
sure
that
there
are
sufficient
monies
there
to
cover
the
under
to
cover
the
special
fund:
claimants,
those
3
000,
roughly
3
100
3
400
remaining
claimants.
Again,
the
money
is
collected.
Part
of
that
goes
to
fund
the
special
fund,
so
I'm
using
the
word
fun.
It
gets
confusing
because
we
keep
on
using
the
word
fun
and
we
use
it
repeatedly
in
different
manners.
Throughout
this
discussion.
It
goes
to
help
fund
that
special
fund
to
make
sure
the
punt
money
is
there.
E
It
just
doesn't
sit
there
in
an
account.
It
sits
there
and
it's
invested
and
the
returns
from
that
investment
are
all
projected
through
an
Actuarial
Table
through
actuaries
that
we
retain
to
make
sure
the
sufficient
funds
that
being
the
511.5
million,
as
well
as
the
UEFA
89.5
minutes
sure
that
that
money
is
there
to
go.
It's
we
have
meetings
all
the
time
with
the
actuaries
I
think
we
meet
four
times
a
year
to
check
on
those
Investments
how
they're
doing
and
go
by
that.
E
E
As
of
all
the
associated
industries
of
Kentucky
aik
comp
has
been
in
the
news
since
about
2004..
Well,
they
actually
started
in
1979.
this,
the
aik
comp
established
in
1979
as
a
selected
self-insurance
fund,
the
AK
cop.
Now
it
it
ran
us
some
problems,
it's
been,
it
was
in
the
news,
all
the
headlines
and
so
forth.
They
were
in
the
problems
it
was
placed
in
Rehabilitation
on
August
5th
2004.
E
E
kcp
as
we
referred
to
cease
accepting
new
members
and
began
winding
down
Affairs
and
in
1991.
in
1995,
kcp
sought
bankruptcy,
protection
in
2015,
the
department
of
insurance
and
the
department
of
workers.
Claims
entered
into
a
memorandum
understanding
to
use
the
920
funds
since
to
pay
the
kcp
claims
that
Rose
before
March
1
1997..
Why
is
all
this
important?
Well,
we
had
to
make
sure
there
was
money.
These
two
entities
were
running
out
of
money.
We
had
to
make
sure
these
Injured
Workers
were
paid
and
taken
care
of
make
sure
the
medical
care
was
taken.
E
Care
of
in
2022
is
Roger
that
what
we
were
trying
to
do
was
insufficient
money
in
the
920
fund
to
continue
to
cover
the
aik
situation.
The
kcp's
operation,
the
department
workers
claims,
came
to
the
general
assembly
and
asked
for
an
appropriation
on
one-time
appropriation,
which
was
approved.
In
fact,
the
governor
asked
for,
and
the
general
assembly
approved
that
appropriation
a
law
sport
of,
and
that
was
for
23
million
dollars
of
that
of
that
23
million.
E
Approximately
14
million
went
to
cover
the
kcp
pre-march
1
1997
claims,
as
well
as
the
aik
pre-199
March
1
1997
claims
that
made
up
about
20
million
dollars.
It
was
sold,
it
was
sold
and
it
wrapped
up
in
a
package
and
sold
to
Kimi
and
Kentucky's
employer
Mutual
insurance
company
and
basically
that
liability
was
capped
and
now
Kimi
controls
that
takes
care
of
that.
To
the
end
of
the
claims,
it
will
no
longer
be
a
drain.
E
It
will
no
longer
be
a
problem
to
be
funded
because
it
was
wrapped
up
in
the
Packers
called
Lost
portfolio
transfer
to
Kimi,
and
that
was
taken
care
of
the
3
million
extra
that
we
talked
about
before.
That's
why
I
referenced
earlier?
It
was
sent
to
bust
it
up
the
920
claim,
because
those
two
entities
were
chewing
up
the
money
faster
than
we
could
collect.
We
couldn't
get
enough
money
to
do
that,
so
the
good
news
is
that
that's
now
capped
out
and
done
night.
E
The
the
kcp
and
the
eik
pre
March
1
1997
claims
are
no
longer
a
prop
responsibility
of
the
Commonwealth
they're,
now
being
administered
and
taken
care
of
by
the
state
as
I
come
to
conclusion,
I
want
a
couple
of
things
to
wrap
to
tell
you
all
about.
We
are
coming
at
the
enemy
refers
to
the
Sunset
date
of
March
December.
Excuse
me
December,
31st
2029..
E
Why
is
that
date
important
all
the
funding
that
I've
talked
about
the
funding
for
the
unemployed,
Insurance
Fund,
the
funding
for
the
Department
workers
claims
the
funding
that
we
do
to
make
sure
that
workers
and
claimants
get
the
protection
they
need
to
get
the
benefits
they
need.
Everything
is
funded
not
through
a
general
fund,
but
through
that
assessment
that
premium
by
Statute
that
premium
is
set
to
come
to
an
end.
Excuse
me
that
assessment
is
set
to
come
to
an
end
on
December
31st
2029..
E
That
may
seem
far
away.
It's
not
so.
The
questions
we
have
to
start
thinking
about
is
okay.
What
are
we
going
to
do
in
the
meantime?
What
are
we
going
to
do
when
December
20
31
29
29
comes
about?
Hopefully,
we'll
go
long
since
to
talk
about
that,
what
will
be
in
there,
but
the
key
to
what
I
want
that
I
want
to
sum
up
talking
about
workers
claims
it's
not
just
to
take
care
of
Injured
Workers,
which
it
does
and
it
does
well.
E
They
don't
face
extreme
liabilities,
extreme
risk,
their
risk
is
set,
their
risk
is
known,
so
it
allows
continuation
of
growth
and
why
Kentucky
continues
to
remain
such
an
attractive
state
to
outside
employers
coming
in
because
I'll
say
with
pride
and
I
am
biased
in
this
I've
been
practicing
workers
comp
again
for
about
30
over
30
years
we
have
one
of
the
best
systems
in
the
state.
Energy
workers
are
taken,
care
of
employers,
get
a
fair
Shake.
Employers
know
what
their
policy
is,
and
we
continue
to
see
our
premiums
going
down
all
those
things.
E
D
Thank
you
all
for
the
presentation,
just
so
I'm
clear
and
of
course
we
hear
all
kinds
of
different
things
when
we're
up
here
and
and
from
some
of
the
people
back
home.
But
there's
some
talk
out
there
that
may
be
the
self-insured
workers
comp
fund
could
be
and
solve
it
by
as
early
as
October
of
this
year.
Is
there
any
truth
to
that?
Let.
E
Me
that's
a
good
question
and
that
was
here
last
week
toss
the
testifying
to
another
with
me
about
that
very
nature.
You
are
correct
of
those
three
groups.
We
talked
about
the
self-insured
insurance,
the
the
self-insured
individual
fund
that
Kentucky
coal
producers
fund,
the
two
funds
that
the
dwc
regulates
and
then
the
Kentucky
self-insured
group
fund
representative
Lewis.
What
you're
referring
to
is
the
self-insured
group
fund
correct,
and
that
is
the
one
that,
according
to
their
projections,
that
they
will
run
out
of
money
in
October
and
they
are
looking
for
an
appropriation
against
one.
E
That's
outside
our
purview.
We
just
by
the
way
the
law
is
written.
It's
not.
We
don't
have
the
opportunity
to
review
or
to
hold
their
security
reps
unless
you
are
correct
and
it's
difficult
because
from
my
standpoint,
what
I
care
about
is
what
happens
to
those
Injured,
Workers
and
I
know
if
we
want
to
go
into
today
or
give
the
give
that
self-insurance
group
an
opportunity
to
explain
to
themselves
why
they
got
in
this
position
where
they
are
now.
But
the
end
result
is
as
commissioner
of
Kentucky
Department
workers
claims
I'm
concerned.
F
One
of
the
things
that
we
didn't
quite
mention
we
kind
of
skipped
over
it-
was
that
back
in
2004
regulation
of
the
actual
workers
compensation,
self-insured
groups
was
moved
by
executive
order
over
to
the
Department
of
Insurance,
and
that's
kind
of
why
they're
the
commissioner
keeps
saying
that
we
don't
regulate
them,
that's
why
they
got
moved
over
there
and
each
of
those
guarantee
funds
we
hold
Security
on
each
of
the
individual
employers
we
be
in
the
department
of
workers
claims
on
each
of
those
individual
employers.
F
So
if
that
employer
fails,
they
default
in
some
way
of
being
a
self-insured
employer.
We
call
that
security
and
that
gets
transferred
over
to
the
appropriate
guarantee
fund.
That
guarantee
fund
then
pays
the
claims
as
far
as
that,
that
security
goes,
and
it
usually
covers
all
of
it,
but
if
it
does
not,
then
what
they
do
is
they
assess
their
members
in
order
to
pay
those
claims?
F
What
happened
in
this
case
and
is
that
that
that
security
that
got
transferred
over
to
DOA
I
way
back
in
2004
was
probably
used
during
the
rehabilitation
or
the
liquidation
of
those
two
entities.
So
there
wasn't
any
security
to
actually
call
and
give
to
that
group
the
fund,
the
guarantee
fund,
and
so
they
find
themselves
in
a
situation
where
they
have
to
immediately
assess
the
other
two
groups
and
I
can't
speak
to
the
to
the
group
guarantee
fund,
because
I
don't
have
a
lot
of
contact
with
them,
but
with
the
others.
F
E
Well,
I
pause
because
right
now
statutory
the
way
the
system
is
set
up,
we
do
not
have
a
means.
The
920
fund
is
not
designed
to
pay
for
those
are
a
March
post,
March
1
1997
claims.
We
do
not.
The
statue
that
allowed
us
to
pay
for
the
pre-march
11997
claims
through
the
appropriation
through
the
general
assembly
was
for
those
again
for
those
before
March
1
1997..
We
were
permitted
to
do
that
right
now.
We
don't
we.
E
There
is
not
a
fund,
and
that's
where
my
concern
comes
representative
Lewis
that
we
don't
have
a
means
to
do
that.
So
the
concern
is
what
happens
then?
Come
either
October
31st
or
November
1
of
of
the
night
of
20
20
23..
Now
the
available
things
to
that
to
the
group
fund
what
they
are
doing
there
I
believe
they
are
seeking
an
appropriation
from
from
the
from
the
general
assembly.
They
also
have
as
Deputy
Commissioner
Hamlin
is
also
referred.
They
have
assessed
themselves.
E
There
is
a
possibility,
too,
that
to
look
in
if
they
can
secure
a
loan
to
take
care
of
those
resources
to
the
problem.
Also
with
the
group
when
the
group
started
back
in
1997,
the
self-insured
group
fund
I
believe
there
are
14
13,
14
members
they're
now
down
to
two
or
three
members
of
that
group.
Most
of
them
have
gotten
out
of
the
group
and
so
forth.
E
It's
difficult
that
in
terms
of
and
I
can't
go
in,
I
don't
know
can't
go
in
details
of
why
they
did
not
assess
themselves
more
during
that
period
and
so
forth,
knowing
that
aik
is
sitting
out
there,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
go
back
and
looking
back
and
forth
of
why
they
did
not
assess
themselves.
E
At
the
end
of
day,
someone's
got
to
take
care
of
those
Injured
Workers
and
I
the,
and
you
asked
a
very
fair
question:
what's
the
solution
I'm
worried
I'm
worried
about
that
we
gotta
either
through
either
an
appropriation
or
that
the
group
fund's
going
to
have
to
come
up
with
some
sort
of
resource
to
take
care
of
the
workers,
because,
right
now
there
is
nothing
within
the
proper
workers
claims
that
allows
us
to
do
it.
E
D
E
Are
when
we
were
here
last
week
again,
the
the
spokesperson
for
David
witty
spoke
before
the
committee
last
week
and
they're
looking
for
a
couple
of
resources.
In
that
one
thing
we
looked
at
what
they
discussed
was
what
will
it
take
to
get
them
to
the
next
appropriation
to
get
to
the
next
general
assembly
to
get
to
2024
the
next
big
session
in
which
they
can
open
up
the
budget
and
look
at
that
and
I
believe
the
money
they
were
talking
about,
ranged
anywhere
from
550
000
to
one
when
was
it
1.4?
E
F
E
Recall
recall:
1.4
million
to
get
them
at
least
through
July
of
2024
that
meaning
they
come
back
and
explain
in
more
detail
to
the
general
assembly.
What
they
need
to
do
for
that
we
are,
we
are
working
with
them,
have
been
working
them
and
suggest
and
have
been
making
strong
suggestions
here
again
is
one
of
the
problems
with
that,
on
the
other,
those
other
funds,
those
other
group
funds.
We
do
again
hold
we're
running
a
security
on
the
group
funds.
E
All
I
have
I'm
an
ex-official
non-voting
member
of
the
board,
which
means
I
have
zero
zero
ability
to
say
hey.
You
need
to
do
this.
You
should
do
this.
You
must
do
this
order
them
to
do
this.
I
simply
don't
have
the
authority.
The
statute
doesn't
permit
that,
nor
for
the
for
the
Department
of
Insurance
Commissioner,
Sharon
Clark.
Both
of
us
can
sit
on
that
commit
on
on
the
board
with
that
group,
but
we
can't
force
them.
We
can
strongly
suggest
and
trust
me.
G
Okay,
I'm
just
trying
to
wrap
my
head
around
all
this
and
it's
a
lot.
I
know
when
we
had
a
small
business,
we
paid
kemi
and
lots
of
money
for
our
workers.
Comp.
That's
all
I
know
about
this.
So
are
these
guarantee
funds?
Are
these
for-profit
corporations?
Are
they
non-profits?
Are
they
something
all
together?
G
F
Ahead,
I'll
address
that,
if
you
like,
they
are
not
for-profit
at
all.
What
they
are
are
basically
other
self-insured
employers.
Every
self-insured
employer
on
March,
1
1997
was
automatically
a
member
of
one
of
these
guarantee
funds
and
again
the
way
it's
supposed
to
work
is
where
each
self-insured
is
only
self-insured.
Employers,
employers,
who
purchased
a
policy
like
you
did
through
Kimi
they're
guaranteed
by
the
Kentucky
Insurance
guarantee
Association
a
different
guarantee
fund.
F
If
that
makes
sense,
these
are
just
for
self-insured
employers
and
to
be
self-insured
currently
in
Kentucky,
you've
got
to
have
like
10
million
dollars
in
assets.
Above
your
liabilities
and
I
mean
it's,
it's
a
big
hurdle
to
become
self-insured
now
back
in
the
past.
It
was
not
necessarily
the
case
and
I
mean
people
have
been
able
to
self-insure
since
pretty
much
the
beginning
of
this
program.
So
there's
some
very
old
former
self-insured
employers
out
there
current
self-insured
employers.
F
F
But
what
happens
then
is
if
they
default.
We
do
call
that
security
that
Security
money
gets
used
to
pay
claims.
If
that
security
proves
to
be
insufficient
at
that
point,
each
member
of
that
particular
guarantee
fund
then
is
assessed
and
they,
like
I,
said
they
usually
start
much
earlier
than
that,
but
they
they
pay
out
of
what
they
call
member
assessments
and
that
pays
the
remaining
claims
all
the
way
out
to
their
end.
To
the
end
of
that
claim,
so
it's
a
little
different
than
if
you
buy
a
policy.
F
G
I,
may
yes,
so
I
mean
somewhere.
Actually
something
went
awry
right.
Do
these
self-insured
groups
need
different
oversight?
Do
we
not
need
to
not
allow
for
self-insuring
I
mean
this
kind
of
comes
into
what
a
solution
may
be,
I
mean
here
we
are,
and
these
groups
made
mistakes
and
they
didn't
collect
enough
money
to
be
able
to
pay
the
claims
that
they
have
to
pay,
and
so
we,
as
taxpayers,
may
need
to
take
care
of
our
people,
which
we
need
to
do,
but
do
you
kind
of
see
where
I'm
going.
E
I
think
a
couple
of
points
and
please
Violet
Deputy,
Council
general
counsel,
Hamlin
explore
on
this
one
thing:
I
want
to
say
that
as
a
as
a
positive
and
I'm
not
negating
at
all
about
this,
the
group
individual
fund,
the
other
two
funds,
are
operating
and
operating
well,
there
are
sufficient
funds
for
the
self-insured
individual
fund
and
there
are
sufficient
funds
for
the
Kentucky
coal
producers
for
the
for
the
co-producers
fund.
It
is
this
third
group,
the
group
individual
fund,
about
where
the
problems
lie
with
it
and
and
answer
your
question.
E
Perhaps
yes,
in
terms
of
Regulation
of
that,
because
they
are,
they
are
different
from
the
other
two
than
what
we,
the
other
two
groups
that
we
do
regulate
and
the
security
is
required,
but
also
at
this
point
too
we're
only
talking
about
two
or
three
members
of
that
group
even
still
exist
it
it.
E
F
That's
correct
it's
hard
to
turn
something
off
once
it's
on,
so
these
incurred
liabilities,
as
you
may
have
heard
earlier,
some
of
the
medical
benefits
especially
tend
to
last
years
a
long
time.
F
You
may
get
a
new
need
today
and
you
don't
need
a
new
one
for
10
years
or
15
years,
but
when
that
comes
workers,
compensation
still
pays
for
that,
and
so
we
could
just
say:
oh
we're
all
done,
but
but
that
really
is
not
going
to
solve
the
problem
because
there's
still
those
ongoing
liabilities.
F
So
so
it's
a
longer
a
longer
term
solution
than
that
I
think
is
probably
needed
and,
like
I
said
it
may
take
in
essence
take
care
of
itself
to
a
degree
and
that
there
may
not
be
any
more
group
self-insured
employers.
E
But
unfortunately,
of
those
two
they're
still
nothing
we're
talking
about
the
old
are
the
aik
claims,
basically
from
March
2nd
1997
going
forward.
Those
are
the
claims
that
are
out
there
that
we're
worried
about
along
with
the
other
claim,
but
the
majority
of
those
AI
kicks.
Aik
went
Belly
Up
with
that.
That's
the
that's!
You
know
it's
a
reference,
the
same
thing
too,
like
we
heck,
we
haven't
taken
new
special
fund
cases
since
1996,
and
we
still
have
3
100.
E
Question
good
question:
we
have
a
whole
formula
in
which,
when
employee
has
two
actually
there's
two
two
answers
to
that
typical
lawyer
will
give
you
two
answers
to
us.
A
simple
question:
there's
two
mechanisms
by
which
we
have
a
scheme
for
the
for
an
employee
who
passes
if
an
employee
passes
because
of
a
workload,
injury
he's
killed
on
the
job.
We
have
one
statue
that
says
here
are
the
benefits,
including
a
lump
sum
debt
provision
for
the
employee,
I.
Think
right
now.
E
It's
about
99
000
of
lump
sum
benefit
that
goes
to
these
data
that
injured
worker
killed
on
the
job,
but
and
also
then
it
passes
down.
We
have
a
whole
mechanism
who
gets
those
those
benefits.
I.
Think
more
of
the
questions
you
may
be
asking
is
someone
who
has
received
workers,
compensation
say
for
425
weeks
or
for
a
total.
E
What
happens
when
they
pass
and,
yes,
we
do
have
revision
and
that
provision
states
that
they
can
do
what's
called
a
substitution
of
the
party,
it's
a
form,
11
substitution,
a
party
and
that
the
Widow
gets
I
believe
one
half
of
the
benefits
of
the
expected
life
expectancy.
So
it
does
pass
on
not
only
to
the
Widow,
but
also
if
there
are
dependent
children
under
the
age
of
under
the
age
of
18
or
if
there
are
some
other
special
needs
for
someone
for
par
for
our
apartment.
Of
that
nature.
Good
question
thank.
A
You
any
other
questions
and
just
for
the
committee
next
Tuesday,
oh
it's
tomorrow,.
A
The
economic
development
subcommittee
is
going
to
have
the
I,
don't
know
what
to
call
it.
The
self-guarantee
problem
presented
to.