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From YouTube: House Standing Committee on Judiciary (2-16-22)
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A
Meeting
I'm
going
to
go
a
little
bit
unusual
today
we're
going
to
talk.
I
got
to
give
a
few
comments.
So
first
I'm
going
to
ask
madam
secretary:
please
call
the
roll.
A
A
So
that
was
my
opening
comments
that
I
needed
to
make,
because
we've
had
people
calling
me
directly
or
calling
my
my
policy
person,
and
we
don't.
We
don't
deal
with
that,
not
that
we
wouldn't
deal
with
that.
We're
going
to
refer
to
them
anyway,
so
to
take
out
the
middleman.
Please
go
through
committee
staff.
A
Next,
we
would
encourage
you
to
put
your
phone
on
silent
or
airplane
mode.
The
microphones
here
are
very
sensitive,
which
I
get
told
almost
every
meeting
to
turn
my
microphone
off,
because
what
happens?
Is
the
cameras
pick
up
and
follow
the
microphones
or
follow
the
noise?
So
just
be
mindful
of
that
when
you're
testifying
and
if
you're
going
to
be
at
the
table
today,
every
meeting
we
have
to
tell
people.
Please
turn
your
microphone
on
just
note
that
they
don't
come
on
automatically.
A
There
is
a
button
there
on
them,
just
touch
that
button
and
it
will
light
up
a
green
light
and
you'll
be
ready
to
go.
We
have
actually
five
bills
here
today
for
consideration,
because
one
of
the
bills
is
really
a
should
be.
A
very
quick
matter
should
be.
I
always
say
that
as
a
qualification,
but
we're
going
to
start
today
with
house
bill
215,
which
is
sponsored
by
representative
feuguette
so
representative.
A
If
you
come
forward-
and
I
think
representative
reilly-
and
you
have
a
couple
of
guests
that
are
with
you
here
today,
mr
and
mrs
bishop,
if
you
would
like
to
come
forward.
A
A
We
have
a
motion
by
representative
banda
in
a
second
by
representative
fisher,
all
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
aye
opposed
there
is
none.
This
is
a
bill
that
we
previously
had
scheduled
on
our
agenda.
It
was
taken
off
because
we
are
working
in
concert
with
some
other
pieces
of
legislation
that
we're
tracking,
along
with
this.
This
is
a
drug.
This
is
a
drug.
Fentanyl
is
a
drug
bill
that
we're
trying
to
deal
with.
This
was
brought
by
representative
fugit
in
the
interim.
A
We
discussed
this,
and
but
we
have
another
bill
that
we
expect
to
receive
out
of
the
senate
at
some
point.
That
will
be
a
treatment
mechanism
for
people
that
are
addicted
to
these
very
deadly
substances,
so
we're
trying
to
run
them
parallel.
We're
trying
to
deal
with
this
and
that's
part
of
the
reason
we
have
a
committee
sub
here
today,
but
with
that
I
will
turn
it
over
to
representative
fugit
and
you
may
proceed
sir.
F
F
F
We
dealt
back
then
with
substances
prescription,
medication,
marijuana,
cocaine,
some
meth,
not
a
lot
back
then,
but
and
in
those
days
the
drugs
were.
They
were
bad
everywhere,
of
course,
but
in
the
last
little
bit
the
last
few
years,
methamphetamine
and
heroin
has
made
its
way
into
the
southeastern
part
of
kentucky
and
now
fentanyl
has
been
introduced
into
the
drug
trafficking
world
in
east
kentucky
and
all
across
kentucky.
F
So
fentanyl
is
not
just
destroying
lives.
Fentanyl
is
taking
lives.
According
to
a
group
that
I
met
with
from
operation
unite,
the
drug
overdose
rate
was
56
higher
last
year
than
it
was
years
prior
and
71
of
that,
56
percent
was
due
to
fentanyl
involvement
in
the
drugs
that
were
taken,
so
the
overdose
death
rate
is
higher
because
of
this
substance,
that's
been
introduced
into
the
drug
trafficking
world.
F
You
know,
mr
chairman.
I
know
that
that
we
have,
in
the
past
few
years,
talked
about
reform
and
and
and
and
all
that,
but
with
something
that
this
dangerous
there
has
to
be.
There
have
to
be
consequences
to
those
who
traffic
in
these
substances
and
put
these
into
the
cities
of
our
into
the
streets
of
our
cities
and
hollers
of
the
mountains.
There
has
to
be
consequences.
F
There's
dangers
not
only
to
the
people
who
are
who
are
addicts,
but
there's
danger
to
those
who
are
innocent
bystanders
in
restaurants
and
different
places
that
these
drugs
may
be
used.
There's
also
dangers
to
the
emts
paramedics,
firefighters,
police
officers
and
troopers
that
respond
to
the
scenes
of
drug
overdose.
F
F
Five
people
at
that
scene
had
to
be
triple
narcan
and
two
police
officers
that
responded
to
the
scene
of
the
overdose
were
exposed
to
the
fentanyl,
and
they
too
had
to
be
double
narcan.
To
save
their
life.
Fentanyl
is
not
something
to
just
smack.
Somebody
on
the
wrist
about
fentanyl
is
a
substance
that
must
be.
It
must
be
prosecuted
to
the
fullest
extent
house.
Bill.
215
does
just
that
in
section
1
of
house
bill
215.
F
It
deals
with
the
importing
of
fentanyl
into
kentucky,
and
the
person
that
is
found
guilty
of
importing
fentanyl,
carfentanil
or
fentanyl
derivatives
shall
not
be
eligible
for
pre-trial
diversion.
They
shall
not
be
released
on
probation,
shock,
probation
or
conditional
discharge
or
parole
until
they
have
served
85
percent
of
the
jail
time.
That's
given
them
by
a
jury
of
their
of
their
of
their
county.
Section
2
deals
with
a
less
a
less
trafficking
person,
so
the
first
section
deals
with
those
who
would
bring
in
large
quantities.
F
The
second
section
that
you'll
see
we
added
in
section
two
section,
one
c:
we
added
the
the
amount
of
one
gram
or
more
of
fentanyl
carfentanil
or
fentanyl
derivatives.
Now
those
that
would
traffic
in
one
gram
or
more
of
these
substances
would
also
be
required
to
serve
85
percent
of
their
jail
time.
However,
if
a
person
is
found
to
have
less
than
1
gram
of
fentanyl,
they
would
still
be
eligible
for
a
drug
rehab
facility.
F
They
would
be
able
to
go
and
be
admitted
to
a
drug
rehab
facility
instead,
section
three
of
the
bill
deals
with
the
aggravated
trafficking
and
it
lists
the
of
course
it's
already
in
statute.
But
what
it
does
is
this
bill
changes.
If
it's
fentanyl,
then
they
they
must
serve
85
of
the
jail
time
and
section
4
is
this
act
shall
be
known
as
dalton's
law,
and
we
have
here
today
with
us
rita
a
bishop
who
would
like
to
speak
to
the
to
the
committee.
Mr
chairman,.
G
Speak
and
before
they
do
I'll
tell
you
my
involvement
in
this.
Before
we
have
read
to
speak
in
november
of
2020,
we
got
tragic
news
that
a
22
year
old
man,
young
man,
dalton
bishop,
who
lives
two
neighborhoods
over
from
me,
had
passed
away
and
then,
as
time
came
on,
we've
we
found
out.
It
was
a
drug,
related
death
and,
at
some
point
time
after
william
and
rita,
had
gone
through
the
grieving
process
and
they're
still
going
through
it.
G
He
has
an
office
in
glasgow
in
my
community
and
william
and
bart
have
been
friends
for
a
number
of
years
and
and
I've
also
known
the
bishops
for
a
number
of
years,
and
when
we
met
with
them,
we
talked
about
dalton's
situation
and
we
we
had
a
long,
probably
three
hour
meeting
one
day
and
went
over
his
situation
and
barton,
and
I
told
the
bishops
that
we
would
look
into
this,
that
we
would
look
into
some
type
of
legislation
involving
involving
this
type
of
tragic
death.
G
Well,
we
discovered
that
representative
fugate
was
going
to
file
a
bill
to
deal
with
this
and
he's
way
more
of
an
expert
in
areas
like
this
than
either
representative
roland,
and
I
are
so.
We
basically
got
with
him
and
and
he
filed
this
legislation
and
we
decided
that
we
would
get
involved
to
a
degree,
but
would
let
him
be
the
person
that
carried
it,
because,
obviously
he
knows
more.
So
we
I
have
stayed
in
in
contact
with
william
and
rita
over
the
course
of
time.
G
Obviously
we
we're
going
to
hear
this
about
three
weeks
ago
and
it
was
a
tough
call
to
call
rita
and
say
they're
not
going
to
hear
that
bill,
because
when
chris
told
me
I
said
man,
I
hate
to
call
reid
and
tell
her
we're
not
going
to
hear
the
bill
because
they
were,
they
were
anxious
to
come
and
tell
dalton's
story.
G
So
a
couple
days
ago
chris
told
me
we
were
going
to
hear
it,
and
so
I
called
them
and-
and
they
wanted
to
be
here-
I
told
rita
that
that
if
she
was
uncomfortable
I
would
be
glad
to
tell
a
story.
But
she
wants
to
tell
dalton's
story,
and-
and
so
that's
why
that's
why
they're
here
today
to
do
and
and
I'm
going
to,
let
rita
do
that
right
now.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
H
Thank
you.
The
first
thing
I
would
like
to
do
is
thank
chris
fugate
bart,
roland
and
steve
riley
for
listening
and
hearing
our
concerns
about
the
rise
in
fentanyl
deaths.
Also,
thank
you
to
the
committee
that
have
hurt
our
concerns
as
well.
When
we
learned
our
son
died
from
fentanyl
in
november
of
2020,
we
knew
we
needed
to
do
something,
but
had
no
idea
where
to
begin
so.
Thank
you.
All
dalton
took
a
pill
that
he
thought
was
oxycodone.
He
took
half
of
that
pill.
H
His
autopsy
showed
us
that
that
half
a
pill
he
took
was
a
hundred
percent
fentanyl.
Yes,
our
son
made
a
mistake,
but
he
had
no
idea
what
he
was
getting
from
a
friend
would
kill
him.
I
don't
consider
his
death
an
overdose.
He
was
poisoned
just
since
dalton's
death,
our
eyes
have
been
opened
to
how
much
of
a
problem
fentanyl
is
one
of
the
scariest
things
to
me
is
seeing
the
rest,
but
the
guys
are
bonded
out
within
24
hours
just
to
begin
this
all
over
again.
H
H
He
was
sincerely
concerned
for
anyone
suffering
from
discouragement,
unfair
treatment
or
difficult
circumstances
beyond
their
control
at
an
early
age,
dalton
had
eyes
that
saw
people
that
no
one
else
noticed
and
the
heart
that
was
fiercely
devoted
to
building
them
up
because
of
dalton's
example.
Our
church
has
honored
his
memory
by
establishing
the
dalton
bishop
least
of
these
funds,
I'll
end
with
scripture
that
dalton
lived
by
and
we
all
need
to
as
well
matthew,
25
40..
H
F
E
Of
the
current
people
we've
got
a
couple
names
listed
representative,
okay,
representative
ratcher
is
just
quickly
is.
Was
that.
H
I'm
assuming
it
was
not
a
pharmaceutical.
I
have
not
asked
that
question
myself.
Oh
I
mean,
of
course.
At
that
moment
I
didn't
even
know
we
only
took
half
of
it.
The
detectives
told
us
at
a
later
point
that
they
found
the
other
half
and
it
wasn't
until
the
autopsy
that
we
found
out
the
rest.
F
They're,
there
are
obviously
fentanyl
that's
sent
to
hospitals,
but
the
drug
traffickers,
from
out
of
the
country
and
in
the
country
now
are
pressing
fentanyl
into
pills
with
a
pill
press
all
right.
Thank
you.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I'll
I'll.
Add
to
that
and
and
with
representative
bratcher,
you
know
owning
pharmacies
I
do
very
little.
Fentanyl
is
typically
in
the
end
of
life
care
and
it
typically
comes
in
transdermal
patches.
There
are
some
compounding
pharmacies
that
that
get
it
as
well,
but,
as
representative
suggested,
most
of
this
is
coming
out
of
the
country
in
the
country
it's
being
manufactured
and
it's
just
such
a
powerful
drug
and
people
don't
know
what
they're
taking
so
really,
you
know
too
often
not
up
here.
C
We
we
pass
policy
that
is
reactive
in
nature,
and
this
is
a
very
proactive
response,
so
representative
representative
reilly
and
the
family.
I
appreciate
you
all
taking
a
stand
on
this
and
it
has
my
full
support.
Thank
you,
representative.
A
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
just
have
a
drafting
question
here
on
page
two
of
the
committee
substitute
line
three
and
line
24,
you
delete
fentanyl,
carfentanil
or
fentanyl
derivatives.
I
understand
what
you're
doing
you're
moving
the
one
gram
of
possession
of
fentanyl
up
to
an
85
percent,
but
what
happens
to
the
by
deleting
the
other
ones?
What
happens
to
the
amount?
That's
less
than
what's
the
punishment
for
somebody
possessing
less
than
one
gram.
F
In
section
three,
I'm
sorry
section
two
on
line
fourteen
any
person
who
violates
the
provision
of
subsection
b,
c
or
d,
this
section
shall
be
guilty
of
class
c.
I'm
sorry
letter
b
line
17.
any
person
who
violates
the
provision
of
subsection,
1
f
of
this
section
shall
be
guilty
of
a
class
d
felony
for
the
first
offense
and
it'll
be
it'll,
be
a
class
d
felony
for
possession.
A
Was
the
intent
and
the
reason
for
that?
Just
so
that
everybody's
clear
and
I
worked
with
representative
fugit
and
the
drafter
on
this?
This
is
part
of
what
I
was
trying
to
say
earlier
on.
We
want
people
that
it
may
be
incidental.
Somebody
may
have
given
it
to
them.
If
it's
less
than
a
certain
amount,
then
we
want
those
people
to
be
able
to
get
into
treatment.
Programs
they're,
like
I
said,
there's
a
bill
coming
from
the
senate
that
we
believe
will
open
the
door
for
that.
A
I
know
it
may
be
a
pilot
project
initially,
but
the
goal
is
that
people
that
may
be
just
a
user
as
opposed
to
a
trafficker
could
get
the
help
they
need.
There
would
be
support
for
the
family
support
for
the
individual
treatment
and
it's
not
just
treatment.
My
understanding
is
the
bill
is
going
to
go
far
enough
to
talk
about
getting
them
employment,
giving
them
hope
so
that
they
can
come
out
from
underneath
of
this
horrific
situation,.
A
Right
now,
when
we
did
that
yesterday
and
I
I
will
go
back
and
review
that
if
we
need
to
fix
anything
in
that,
I
believe
there
will
be
changes
to
this
bill
anyway,
the
intent
we
were
focused
entirely
on
fentanyl
at
the
time.
If
we
need
to
align
it
to
cover
other
drugs
of
substantially
similar.
I
won't
know
to
say
that
they're
not
as
deadly,
but
you
know
they
certainly
have
a
substantially
negative
effect.
Then
we
will
address
that,
but
but
without
reading
that
today,.
D
I
am
in
favor
of
the
bill,
obviously,
but
I
reserve
the
right
to
put
an
amendment
on
the
floor.
D
A
You
and
candidly
representative
fischer,
we
expect
amendments
again,
I'm
working
with
chairman
westerfield
in
the
senate.
Presently
that
bill
has
not
been
filed.
We
expect
it
may
be
filed
this
week.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
by
passing
this
bill
we
don't
infringe
upon
what
that
bill
is
seeking
to
achieve,
which
is
a
treatment
element.
C
I
just
want
to
thank
you,
representatives
for
bringing
this
bill.
It's
very
thoughtful,
very
well
crafted,
and
I
want
to
thank
you
parents
for
coming
and
no,
I
can't
fathom
the
pain
you
feel,
but
I
commend
you
for
taking
that
and
helping
others
and
making
sure
that.
I
I
I
appreciate
very
much
the
committee
sub
from
the
sponsors.
I
do
think
that
it
it
addresses
the
issue,
the
trafficking
issue.
We
absolutely
need
to
get
fentanyl
off
of
our
streets.
It's
deadly
we're
really
not
even
seeing
heroin
that
much
anymore,
not
in
our
area,
we're
seeing
it's
pure
fentanyl
and
in
fact
I
have
a
friend
who
overdosed
and
died
last
week.
So
it's
happening
everywhere,
the
the
users,
the
individuals
who
are
suffering
with
a
substance
use
disorder.
I
Oftentimes,
don't
even
I
mean
they
clearly,
don't
know
what
they're
getting
in
these
fraudulently
manufactured
pills.
These
are
pill.
Presses,
fentanyl,
you're,
right,
representative
lewis
is
not
typically
found
in
pill
form
it's
a
patch.
It's
used
in
end
of
life
situations,
it's
an
anesthetic,
so
it
there
is
a
use,
but
it
is
being
illegally
manufactured
and
brought
into
our
country,
and
so
we
need
you
know.
I
Obviously,
we
need
to
find
a
way
federally
to
keep
this
from
coming
into
our
country
in
the
first
place,
but
secondarily
being
proactive
in
in
addressing
the
true
traffickers,
I
think
is
important.
I
I
think
the
one
gram
provision
allows
individuals
who
have
a
substance
use
disorder
to
still
get
treatment.
We
we
know
that
a
lot
of
times
individuals
have
no
idea
what
they're
getting,
unfortunately
with
fentanyl.
They
don't
have
a
chance
to
even
hit
rock
bottom,
and
I
mean
it's
it's
critically
important
that
we
that
we
deal
with
it.
I
I
yeah
I
served
as
the
northern
kentucky
office
of
drug
control
policy
director
for
a
lot
of
years,
and
so
I
I
s,
I
have
seen
the
evolution
of
this
and-
and
I
know
how
problematic
problematic
it
is.
I
do
support
this
bill
because
it
allows
individuals
to
get
into
treatment,
and
you
know,
I
think,
probably
a
clarification
on
the
heroin
is
is
necessary.
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
representative,
representative
riley.
Thank
you
for
bringing
this
bill.
According
to
the
u.s
sentencing,
commission
fentanyl
trafficking
has
went
up
1890
since
2016.
almost
2
000
in
six
years.
We
know
it's
killing
our
people,
and
so
we
need
to
go
after
the
traffickers
very
hard.
E
You
need
to
be
serving.
You
need
to
be
serving
a
long
sentence.
You
are
in
the
language
of
the
law,
knowingly,
killing
our
people
and
that
needs
to
stop
for
traffickers.
I've
got
a
question
representative
because,
because,
as
representative
moser
said,
we
want
to
make
sure-
and
I
know
you
do
too-
we've
talked
that
people
who
are
addicts
get
treatment
and
people
who
are
traffic
traffickers
get
sent
to
prison
for
a
long
time
and
that's
what
this
bill
does.
F
Amount,
so
you
know
the
the
such
is
the
case,
probably
with
the
bishop's
son
had
maybe
never
taken
fentanyl
and
just
that
half
a
pill
killed
him.
You
know
on
the
street
most
time
it's
mixed
with
something
else,
and
they'll
have
just
a
very
small
amount
of
fentanyl
put
in
that
drug
drug
usage.
A
gram
is
you
know,
and
again
this
is
I've
been
gone
from
state
police
nine
years
a
gram
of
of
cocaine
on
the
street
was
a
hundred
dollars.
F
You
know,
I
don't
know
what
the
street
value
is
now
fentanyl,
I
would
say,
is
probably
around,
and
you
know,
methamphetamine
was
a
hundred
dollars
a
gram
back
then
and
representative
blanton
could
affirm
that
I'm
sure,
but-
and-
and
I
don't
know
what
the
I
don't.
I
don't
know
what
the
price
is
today,
but
a
gram
of
pure
fentanyl
would
would
kill
more
than
one
person.
This
gram
is
a
is
a
this
gram
that
this
bill
is
talking
about.
Is
a
fentanyl
derivative.
E
According
to
what
I've
read
the
gram,
the
price
for
the
gram
on
the
street
right
now
is
200,
which
is
almost
three
times
a
gram
of
gold.
My
question
I
want
to
I
looked
into
this
a
lot
yesterday,
but
I'm
not
an
expert
on
fentanyl
and
out
because
I
really
I
don't
want
to
over
criminalize
usage.
E
Those
people
need
to
be
held
accountable,
but
we
need
to
get
them
treatment.
Traffickers
totally
different
ball
game,
but
I'm
going
to
make
a
statement
representative
make
sure
I'm
right
about
this.
Make
sure
I'm
right
about
this.
My
my
quick
studies
have
show
that
have
shown
to
me
that
if
we're
talking
about
a
gram
of
fentanyl,
that's
not
something
that
you
can
accidentally
pass
along.
E
So
here's
my
fear
and
I
think,
I'm
okay
person,
that's
trafficking,
bad
guy,
really
bad
guy
gives
to
somebody
else,
a
user,
some
some
drugs
that
have
fentanyl
in
them
and
then
I
don't
want
that
person
who's
using
with
a
friend.
I
want
him
to
be
held
accountable
and
get
treatment,
but
I
don't
want
him
to
be
in
prison
for
10
years
and
have
this
enhanced
penalty
put
on
them.
E
F
I
I
would
think
that's
a
fair
statement,
so
what
happens
in
in
our
experience
is
if,
if
there's
two
drug
dealers
living
within
four
or
five
miles
of
each
other
in
the
hollers
and
and
they're,
both
selling,
meth
or
or
whatever,
and
one
of
them
gets
a
little
bit,
he
wants
to
get
more
customers.
F
F
They
think
they're,
scientists
or
chemists
and
and
they
begin
to
to
be
in
competition
and
then
they
ultimately
put
too
much
fentanyl
in
now,
I'm
not
saying
they're
doing
that
at
the
very
local
level,
but
wherever
they're
getting
it
at
or
from
whether
it's
in
state
or
out
of
state
they're
they're,
the
the
true
big
league
traffickers
are
mixing
that
with
it.
So
it
gives
them
a
more
potent
supply
so
that
they
will
get
more
people
to
come
to
their
business.
Okay.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
one
question
first
and
then
probably
the
second
question.
If
I
may
one
I'm
looking
at
the
impact
statement,
if
I'm
reading
this
correctly
about
207
000
a
little
over
200
000
per
each
inmate
additional
calls,
that's
that's
subject
to
the
penalties,
and
this
legislation
proposed.
Is
that
correct.
F
C
What
I'm
saying
on
the
second
page
of
that
dated
february
the
second
says
the
additional
number
of
days
under
this
proposal
would
translate
into
an
additional
cost
of
over
207
thousand
dollars
per
inmate.
I
don't
know
how
many
inmates
will
be
subject
to
this,
but
that's
the
cost
of
it
that
doesn't
mean
yeah
or
nail
the
bill,
I'm
just
trying
to
make
sure.
I
understand
that
metric
for
consideration
purposes,
right,
you'll,
look
into
that
and
I'll
talk
to
you
later.
Mr
may
ask
one
more
question
on
a
drafting
issue.
A
Yes,
you
may-
and
I
will
tell
you
representative
petry,
that
my
understanding
is
that
that
impact
statement
came
out
before
the
committee
sub,
so
that
will
have
some
impact.
C
I
understood
I
appreciate
that.
Thank
you,
representative.
I'm
looking
at
section
two
section
sub
one
sub
c.
You've
got
one
gram
or
more
of
fentanyl.
I
think
I'm
looking
at
the
proper
committee
sub
one
gram
or
more
of
fentanyl
car
fentanyl
offensive
derivatives.
F
C
Question
is
to
make
sure
that
I'm
understanding
your
intent,
so
would
it
be
one
gram
of
fentanyl
stop
one
gram
of
carfentanyl:
stop
one
gram
of
fentanyl
derivatives,
stop
or
one
gram
of
a
combination
of
these
three.
C
If
it's
intended
to
be
a
combination,
we
may
want
to
look
at
the
drafting
of
that
just
to
make
sure
we're
catching
appropriately
as
defense
council.
I
think
I
would
look
at
that
and
argue
that
it's
one
gram
of
each
one
of
those
all
right,
thank
you,
alternative
of
those
but
not
combinations,
just
making
sure,
though,
all
right.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
A
A
Thank
you.
We
also
have
a
few
people
that
have
signed
up
to
speak,
but
but
I
think
four
of
them
are
from
one
entity,
so
if
they
could
come
forward,
we'll
have
one
person
speak
on
behalf
of
the
aclu
and
then
I
believe
that
there
was
somebody
from
the
kentucky
policy
center
carmen
mitchell.
Is
that
correct
and
well
carmen?
A
If
you
could
come
forward,
we
are
gonna
have
to
limit
you
to
about
three
to
five
minutes
tops
because
we
have
four
other
bills
today
we
knew
this
would
take
some
time
so
we're
we've
prepared
for
that,
but
just
so
you're,
mindful
of
our
time
constraint,
please
introduce
yourself
and
then
your
agency
and
then
proceed.
My
name
is.
A
J
Appreciate
that
good
afternoon,
and
thank
you,
chairman
massey
and
members
of
the
committee,
as
I
said
before,
my
name
is
congo
jaguna
and
I'm
a
policy
strategist
with
the
aclu
of
kentucky.
But,
more
importantly
here
today,
I'm
a
person
in
long-term
recovery
and
I'm
here
today
to
talk
to
you
about
house
bill
215..
J
First,
I
do
want
to
acknowledge
representative
fugate's
willingness
to
speak
to
me
talk
to
me
and
talk
about
language
and
potential
changes.
I
know
like
me,
his
goal
is
to
save
lives.
We
know
what
opioids
and
fentanyl
are
doing
to
our
citizens.
Him,
and
I
just
really
disagree
on
the
best
way
to
get
there.
What
this
body
has
done
and
what
the
general
assembly
has
done
is
to
pass
new
laws
or
enhance
penalties,
but
those
don't
work
in
fact,
in
section
1,
if
we
take
a
look
at
krs,
21a
0.140,
that's
a
relatively
new
law.
J
J
Kentuckians
die
of
overdoses,
so
here
we
are
in
2022,
looking
to
amend
the
law
again
and
enhance
penalties,
but
in
2020
we
had
1964
overdoses,
and
in
last
year
we
had
the
forced
highest
rate
of
increase
in
overdoses.
According
to
the
cdc,
with
over
2
200
of
our
brothers
and
sisters
dying
from
overdoses,
enhanced
penalties
don't
work,
they
don't
work.
J
Only
treatment
does
that.
That
is
what
we
need
to
be
focusing
on
in
his
second
book,
sam
quinodis
entitled
the
least
of
us,
the
true
tales
of
american
hope
in
the
time
of
fentanyl
and
meth
talks
about
the
age
that
we
are
in
today,
synthetic
opioids
and
what
he
says
after
he
travels
the
country,
including
kentucky,
is
that
after
seeing
that
that
our
only
hope
he
writes
our
best
defense,
perhaps
our
only
defense
lies
in
bolstering
community
community
equals
recovery.
J
I
used
to
inject
meth
heroin
and
only
god
knows
what,
because,
as
you
said,
fentanyl
is
in
everything-
and
you
don't
know
it's
there,
but
I'm
here
today,
because
I
got
sober
and
just
to
continue
what
he
said
like
the
pandemic.
Fentanyl
and
methamphetamine
present
us
with
a
huge
opportunity
for
change.
J
J
C
J
You
capture
my
conduct,
you're,
not
saving
lives,
here's
what
we
need
to
do,
instead
of
focusing
on
the
substance
we've
done.
What
did
we
do
years
ago?
We
cracked
down
on
pills
on
prescription
pills.
We
saw
the
rise
of
heroin,
we
crack
down
on
heroin.
We
see
the
rise
of
fentanyl
and
meth
in
the
age
of
synthetic
opioids.
J
The
next
drug
is
being
concocted
somewhere
made
up,
probably
not
even
in
this
country.
Instead
of
focusing
on
the
trees
and
trying
to
cut
that
down,
we
need
to
focus
on
the
forest
of
addiction
and
focus
on
community
and
the
individual
and
help
him
or
her
get
out
of
that.
If
we
do
that,
we'll
save
lives
and
this
bill
doesn't
do
that
and
that's
why
I
encourage
each
of
you
to
vote.
No.
K
K
I
just
want
to
say
I
am
a
criminal
justice
researcher
with
the
kentucky
center
for
economic
policy,
I'm
also
a
public
health
researcher
and
a
lifelong
kentuckian
who
is
as
deeply
concerned
about
the
health
and
welfare
of
all
kentuckians,
as
all
of
you
kentucky
is
one
of
the
most
incarcerated
places
in
the
world
already.
I'm
sure
many
of
you
know
that
especially
those
of
you
who
get
emails
from
me
all
of
the
time,
but
it
is
worth
repeating
that
we
have
an
incarcerated
population
larger
than
the
size
of
paducah.
K
Excuse
me
importing
of
or
trafficking
in
any
quantity
of,
carfentanyl,
fentanyl
or
fentanyl
derivatives
is
already
subject
to
harsh
punishments
in
kentucky.
As
we've
already
talked
about
today,
extending
the
required
sentence
served
from
50
to
85
percent
will
not
serve
as
a
deterrent
to
using
a
distributing
fentanyl,
because
research
shows
that
increased
criminal
penalties
don't
work
to
deter
people
from
committing
offenses.
K
Many
people
who
commit
crimes
are
not
aware
of
the
punishment
or
sentence
that
is
for
the
crime,
because
not
most
people
unfortunately
spend
a
lot
of
time.
Reading
statutes
like
I
do,
and
for
even
people
who
are
aware
they
may
be
a
diminishing
shock
value
of
long
sentences
becoming
even
longer
extending
sentence.
Lengths
for
fentanyl
can
also
potentially
exacerbate
what
are
already
very
serious.
Current
racial
disparities
in
sentencing
and
incarcerated
populations
in
kentucky.
According
to
a
2020
report,
75
percent
of
people
serving
federal
sentences
for
trafficking
fentanyl
were
people
of
color.
K
K
There's
a
great
deal
of
overlap
between
people
who
sell
drugs
and
people
who
use
drugs,
and
these
are
the
people
who
are
by
and
large
the
ones
who
end
up
incarcerated
under
these
statutes,
not
the
kingpins.
The
statutes
are
purportedly
designed
to
punish,
even
with
the
substitute.
Our
understanding
is
that
this
criminal
law
will
still
capture
a
lot
of
people
who
are
just
users
who
are
trying
to
help
not
traffickers.
K
Instead,
the
general
assembly
should
implement
policies
and
fund
programs
to
actually
address
substance
use
disorder,
such
as
expanding
mental
and
behavioral
health
treatment.
Access
like
what
the
reported
sb90
is
trying
to
do
the
upcoming
bill,
and
we
should
also
be
looking
to
continue
to
expand
opportunities
for
people
to
be
diverted
to
treatment
at
the
pre-trial
stage
and
ensure
people
have
access
to
critical
supports.
They
need
to
thrive,
such
as
housing
and
transportation.
K
A
L
You're
up,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
First
of
all,
mr
mrs
bishop,
let
me
take
an
opportunity
to
thank
you
all
for
being
here
today
for
sharing
your
story
of
your
loss,
and
you
have
my
heartfelt
sympathies
and
condolences.
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
How
in
the
world
that
you
could
think
that
that
is
anything
less
than
that
than
protecting
the
people
of
our
society,
then
I
must
wonder
folks,
the
days
of
of
getting
soft
on
crime
and
being
sympathetic
and
I'm
sympathetic
to
people,
and
I
can
tell
you
this
because
I've
seen
it
in
my
own
family,
you
want
people
to
want
to
get
cleaned
up
that
are
drug
abusers,
they're
going
to
have
to
hit
rock
bottom
before
they're
going
to
decide.
They
want
to
get
cleaned
up,
and
sometimes
that
means
getting
charged
with
a
crime.
L
That's
what
happened
with
my
family.
They
had
to
get
charged
with
a
crime
before
they
get
cleaned
up,
they
weren't
traffickers.
They
were
users,
but
they
had
to
hit
rock
bottom
people.
The
conversations
have
to
stop
on
getting
softer
on
crime
and
we
have
to
adhere
to
the
rule
of
law
to
protect
the
citizens
of
this
commonwealth
yeah.
We
got
a
high
incarceration
rate.
L
What
about
the
victims
of
these
crimes?
What
about
the
bishops?
What
about
the
ones
we
had
come
in
testified
during
during
our
interim
that
lost
their
loved
ones?
L
When
someone
got
bailed
out
that
should
never
been
bailed
out
and
their
son
was
shot
walking
home
from
the
hospital.
What
about
those
people
now
you
people
can
live
in
your
utopia,
but
I'm
not
on
your
side,
I'm
going
to
fight
to
ensure
that
we
maintain
law
and
order
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
E
Try
to
be
quick,
but
that's
I
think
this
is.
I
think
this
is
mighty
important
understood.
I
think
one
of
the
one
of
the
tragedies
of
my
six
years
of
the
general
assembly
is
when
dismissed,
charities,
a
drug
treatment.
Outfit
comes
to
meet
with
me
and
representative
bland
and
I
are
really
close.
But
when
dismissed
charities
comes
to
meet
with
me,
they
don't
say
what
they
should
be
saying,
which
is:
we've
got
people
sleeping
on
the
floors
in
the
gym.
E
They
say
we
have
empty
beds.
That
is
immoral.
That
is
a
failure
of
leadership.
That's
a
failure
of
the
legislature,
a
failure
of
the
executive.
We
are
failing
our
people
and
while
this
bill
I'm
for
because
I
think
it
I
think
it
distinguishes
between
what
is
a
trafficker
and
what
is
a
user,
which
is
what
we're
trying
to
do.
But
I
must
respond
to
one
thing
that
my
good
good
friend,
john
blanton
said
we're
trying
to
treat
people.
How
does
that
work?
I'll?
Tell
you
how
it
works.
For
my
family,
I
have
a
sister
who's.
E
She
got
treatment
and
now
she's
raising
her
three
boys.
My
three
nephews,
my
mother,
raised
those
boys
until
she
got
better.
She
was
in,
and
out
of
god
knows
where
we
were.
We
were
thankful
when
she
was
in
jail
on
one
thanksgiving
night.
I
remember
because
we
knew
what
she
wasn't
doing
with
her
body
when
she
wasn't
doing
herself
and
that
she
was
going
to
be
safe.
That
night
she
got
treatment
and
she's
raising
rey
she's,
raising
ben
and
she's
raising
jack.
E
We
talk
about
victims,
there
are
victims
everywhere,
no
doubt
innocent
victims,
but
ray
ben
and
jack
were
also
victims
and
treatment
is
what
brought
their
mother
home.
My
sister
home
treatment
is
what
we
need.
We
definitely
need
to
go
after
the
traffickers
and
that's
what
this
bill
is
trying
to
do,
but
to
say
that
we
need
to
throw
lauren's
life
away
or
to
say
that
we
don't
need
to
need
to
humanize.
My
sister
is
wrong.
E
A
A
G
I
commend
the
gentleman
from
the
aclu
who
went
through
rehab
and
I'm
glad
his
life
is
in
order
and
he's
he's
trying
to
do
productive
things,
but
in
this
bill
deals
with
people
going
through
rehab.
It
has
a
component
to
that,
but
dalton
bishop
doesn't
have
a
chance
to
go
through
rehab
because
of
what
a
trafficker
did.
G
F
F
F
I
spend
my
life
trying
to
help
people
who
are
addicted,
but
I
have
no
sympathy
for
somebody
who
would
take
a
poisoned
substance
and
sell
to
my
people
and
the
people
that
I
love
in
my
communities
I
for
helping
every
addicted
person
they
are,
but
I
have
no
sympathy
for
those
who
traffic
and
there
must
be
consequences
that
is
substantial
to
keep
people
from
doing
it.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
C
A
M
C
C
Opiates
are
deadly
drugs,
there
are
other
drugs
that
we
are
criminalizing
that
are
not
deadly,
and
so
I
hope
that
we
will
shift
our
attention
to
these
deadly
drugs.
I
mean
we're
trying
to
ban
kratom.
Now
I
heard
I
mean
it's,
we
got
we
got
to
keep
our
eye
on
the
ball.
Some
of
these
drugs
are
deadly
and
we
need
to
get
them
off
the
street
and
punish
the
ones
dealing
with
them,
but
we
need
to
make
sure
that
our
eye
is
on
the
ball
on
which
drugs
are
that
way.
So,
yes,.
C
D
Yeah
explain
my
yes
vote.
Yes,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
In
this
bill
we
are
not
talking
about
users
or
possessors
of
drugs,
we're
talking
about
importers
and
traffickers
of
these
deadly
drugs.
Many
of
these
deadly
drugs
because
they
take
them
or
they've,
been
given
these
or
they've,
been
they've,
purchased
these
drugs
and
taken
them.
D
They
cannot
be
helped.
They
will
easily
overdose
on
one
millionth
of
one
gram
of
car
fentanyl,
for
instance,
so
I'm
in
favor
of
this
bill,
making
it
an
85
percent
service
time
for
trafficking
and
one
gram
or
more
of
fentanyl
or
fentanyl
derivatives,
but
I'm
not
in
favor
of
reducing
the
trafficking
of
smaller
amounts
of
fentanyl
carfentanyl
to
a
class
d.
So
thank
you.
C
Briefly
explain
my
vote.
I
want
to
thank
the
the
sponsor
of
this
bill.
I
want
to
thank
the
bishops
for
traveling
and
sharing
their
story.
I'm
going
to
vote
no
on
this
bill.
That
does
not
mean
I
don't
understand
the
intent
and
the
instinct
to
go
after
people
that
are
trafficking
in
these
substances
that
are
deadly
that
are
killing
our
communities.
C
My
concern
is-
and
I
would
like
to
reiterate
a
phrase
from
mr
jaguna,
whose
conduct
are
we
capturing?
We've
heard
that
increasing
penalties
does
not
actually
deter
overdoses,
and
are
we
actually
capturing
the
individuals
that
we
want
to
capture?
Who
are
the
big
traffickers,
the
importers,
or
are
we
sweeping
individuals
who
need
our
help,
who
need
treatment,
who
are
being
caught
up
in
this
and
increasing
penalties
for
them?
And
so
I
I
vote
no
today,
but
it
is
not
because
I
don't
understand
the
intent
and
the
importance
of
what
you're
trying
to
do.
I
Explain
my
vote
quickly,
so
I
am
going
to
vote
yes
on
this
bill.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
the
intent
is
specifically
targeted
at
tr
at
traffickers,
and
so
I
think
there
are
some
ways
to
clean
up
some
some
of
the
outstanding
questions
about
whether
or
not
this
really
gets
to
the
traffickers.
I
In
section
two,
the
amounts
of
fentanyl
carfentanil
and
any
analogs,
I
think
it
should
be
separate
the
one
gram
per
and
and
then
perhaps
strike
section
two
sub
two,
where
the
cumulative
results
or
cumulative
quantities
are
specified
and
then
I
don't
know,
can
we
mandate
treatment
during
incarceration,
I
mean,
I
think
that
there
are
still
some
things
that
we
could
talk
about,
and
I
know
that
there's
a
bill
coming
over
from
the
senate,
so
maybe
we
have
room
to
talk,
but
I'm
a
yes
today.
C
C
A
C
A
A
Yes,
I'm
representative
massey
from
district
66
in
boone
county
we're
talking
today
about
house
bill
311.
This
is
a
felony
mediation
bill
and
I
have
with
me
here
today
to
my
right,
jennifer
hancock
from
volunteers
of
america.
Is
that
correct?
I
say
that
right
you
got
it
right,
all
right
and
she's
going
to
briefly
chime
in
as
well.
So
I'm
going
to
start
and
move
this
quickly.
So
this
this
bill
is
basically.
M
A
The
good
thing
about
this
bill
is
that
the
felony
mediation
process
is
already
going
on.
In
fact,
aoc
is
funding
it,
and
we
have
some
retired
judges
and
other
folks
that
are
conducting
these
mediations
as
a
way
to
help
with
docket
control
and
as
a
way
for
people
to
have
conflict
resolution
without
the
cost,
expense
and
the
burden
mentally
and
emotionally
going
through
a
full-blown
trial.
Obvious.
M
We
have
a
motion
on
the
bill
from
representative
mccoy
and
a
second
from
representative
hevron,
all
in
fake.
M
N
Thank
you.
I'd
like
to
hear
the
rest
of
the
chairs
presentation.
You've
worked
really
hard
on
this
there's
a
lot
of
new
language
in
here
and
you
have
a
guest,
and
I
know
we're
pressed
for
time,
but.
N
A
So,
to
continue
on
very
quickly
it's
already
going
on,
it's
used
in
courts.
Already
I've
used
it.
It
allows
parties
now,
here's
the
catch,
the
defendant.
First
of
all,
the
defendant
has
to
agree.
The
commonwealth
attorney
in
consultation
with
the
victim
has
to
agree,
and
then
the
judge
has
to
sign
off
on
it.
We
think
there's
going
to
be
possibly
a
change.
A
We
want
to
make
sure
we're
in
compliance
with
marsy's
law,
which
has
already
passed
to
make
sure
that
the
input
from
the
victims
is
recognized
and
that
all
parties
are
on
board
with
respect
to
this
mediation,
what
it
does
then,
in
the
prior
bill
and
the
reason
there's
committee
sub,
we
had
specified
all
of
the
regulations
and
the
things
that
go
with
the
mediation,
but
we
determined
that
because
it's
going
on,
we
need
to
leave
that
to
the
supreme
court
since
they're
already
acting
on
that
and
they
need
to
promulgate
the
regulations,
guidelines,
operational
techniques,
training
for
judges
etc,
and
that's
really
in
their
domain.
A
So
they're
going
to
do
that
and
then
part
of
the
sub
also
is
to
require
that
they
report
back
to
the
to
the
general
assembly
about
their
progress.
In
doing
that,
one
thing
I
was
made
aware
of
that's
very
important
for
the
committee
to
know-
and
I
learned
this
from
one
of
the
people
doing
mediation-
is
that
we're
the
recipients
of
a
national
grant
and
they're
actually
looking
at
our
felony
mediation
program
to
be
the
model
language
for
the
nation
for
felony
mediation.
O
I
do
if
I
can
have
just
a
couple
of
moments
because
at
volunteers
of
america
we
support
the
issues
at
the
heart
of
this
bill.
One
of
our
essential
missions
is
to
find
alternatives
to
incarceration
that
hold
individuals
accountable
for
their
actions
while
staying
safely
in
the
community,
and
I'm
talking
about
our
restorative
justice
program
that
accomplishes
this
goal
of
reducing
recidivism
saving
taxpayer
dollars
honoring
and
respecting
the
needs
and
wishes
of
victims
and
putting
people
back
on
productive
paths.
O
Our
mission
at
voa
is
also
to
help
men,
women
and
families
overcome
substance
use
disorder.
This
is
the
right
way
to
help.
Families
and
communities
become
healthier
and
more
productive,
and
it's
also
the
right
policy
direction
for
our
criminal
justice
system.
Our
prisons
and
jails
are
overcrowded
chronically
over
capacity,
and
the
primary
driver
of
this
is
the
incarceration
of
low-level
drug
offenders.
Non-Violent
drug
and
property
offenses
account
for
more
than
50
percent
of
people
incarcerated
in
kentucky.
O
This
is
an
issue
we're
all
aware
of
and
we're
working
to
confront,
but
it
continues
to
be
a
budget
drain
and
a
threat
to
the
prosperity
for
our
commonwealth
and
at
voa.
Our
mission
is
to
move
people
from
substance
use
disorder
to
the
workforce,
and
this
actually
can
help
achieve
that.
Every
aspect
of
our
mission
is
compatible
with
the
goals
of
this
bill
and
it's
our
hope
that
the
supreme
court
will
ensure
that
mediators
are
properly
trained
on
the
restorative
model.
It's
an
evidence-based
and
structured
way
to
ensure
the
victim
is
empowered
to
influence.
O
What
kind
of
justice
is
served
through
a
collaborative
developed
plan
of
restoration.
It
is
customized
both
to
the
offender
and
to
the
offense.
We
offer
a
32-hour
training
for
all
of
our
conflict
resolution
specialists
who
are
able
to
facilitate
the
restorative
process
and
welcome
the
opportunity
to
be
a
partner
on
this.
My
colleagues
at
the
kentucky
association
of
sexual
assault
programs,
and
I
hope
that
this
bill
will
be
further
enhanced
by
adding
sexual
assault,
stalking
and
dating
violence,
in
addition
to
domestic
violence
and
abuse.
O
O
O
I
just
want
to
mention
that
our
immediate
past
circuit
court,
judge
chief
in
jefferson,
county
judge,
angela
bisic,
who
also
serves
on
the
board
of
voa,
is
a
leading
proponent
of
restorative
justice,
and
she
says
with
conviction.
I
do
not
get
reelected
by
being
soft
on
crime.
The
best
way
to
be
tough
on
crime
is
to
implement
solutions
that
stop
crime
from
happening
again,
and
that
is
what
restorative
justice
and
mediation
are
designed
to
do.
Without
a
doubt,
this
is
not
a
soft
on
crime
approach.
O
I
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
so
much
for
your
presentation.
Thank
you
for
this
bill.
This
is
a
great
great
piece
of
legislation.
I
love
the
the
whole
concept
of
restorative
justice,
especially
in
the
juvenile
population.
I
think
it's
very
common
sense.
I
It's
it's
a
teachable
moment
for
folks
who
are
you
know
young
and
and
see
themselves
getting
into
trouble,
and
I
think
it's
a
a
great
technique
to
to
keep
those
folks
out
of
future
problems.
So
can
you
talk
just
briefly
about
some
of
the
pilots
that
you
have
going
on
through
the
state
on
restorative
justice?
Sure.
I
O
Jefferson
county,
we
have
expanded
into
three
circuit
courts,
we're
in
district
courts,
we're
now
in
three
circuit
courts
and
we've
moved
out
of
the
judicial
system
into
the
school
system.
So
we're
now
working
collaboratively
with
jcps
and
a
pilot
that
is
privately
funded.
This
general
assembly
two
years
ago
opted
to
fund
a
pilot
in
southeast
kentucky,
recognizing
the
need
to
get
some
additional
data
outside
of
an
urban
core,
so
we're
now
in
eight
southeastern
kentucky
counties.
O
We
have
a
researcher
from
eastern
kentucky
university
that
is
measuring
the
results
watching
recidivism
rates,
ensuring
that
this
program
is
just
as
successful
there
as
it
has
been
in
jefferson
county.
Our
goal
is
to
bring
it
to
northern
kentucky.
Next,
we
believe,
it's
critically
important,
that
we
continue
to
track
this
data
for
12
years
in
jefferson
county.
The
data
has
been
clear
and
convincing.
Not
only
does
this
reduce
recidivism
by
more
than
half
when
compared
to
the
traditional
process
of
the
justice
system,
it's
literally
one-third,
the
taxpayer
cost.
O
N
Yes-
and
I
want
to
be
clear
that
I
want
this
bill
to
similarly
expand
to
exempt
sexual
assault,
domestic
stalking
and
dating
violence.
So
as
long
as
that
happens,
I
will
continue
to
be
a
yes,
but
that
does
need
to
happen.
D
M
A
A
K
M
C
I
C
A
A
P
P
C
C
A
A
Now
that
brings
us
to
our
last
bill
and
we're
going
to
try
to
give
it
the
due
attention
it
needs
and
that's
get
to
my
next
page,
so
get
the
right
bill
number
that
is
house
bill,
290,
which
is
a
matter
regarding
student
rights.
This
was
brought
previously,
that's
sponsored
by
representative
banta
and
while
she's
making
her
way.
There
is
a
committee
substitute
on
this
bill
motion.
A
M
Thank
you,
representative,
massey
and
committee
for
listening
to
us
again.
You
may
have
heard
this
before
today.
I'm
going
to
kind
of
let
students
speak
to
this
bill.
It
is
simply
a
due
process
bill
that
students
would
go
through
in
college
before
they
are
suspended
or
expelled.
It's
I
thought
a
very
easy
bill,
not
so
easy.
I
did
just
for
your
information.
There's
a
bulleted
point
at
the
back
of
your
bill.
I'm
not
going
to
read
to
you
because
I
know
for
a
fact.
M
S
S
A
representative
from
the
dean
of
students
informed
me
that
I
could
file
a
formal
complaint
and
receive
a
conduct
hearing.
However,
they
told
me,
I
would
have
to
act
as
my
own
attorney
by
collecting
affidavits
from
all
those
involved
and
preparing
an
oral
argument
to
be
presented
to
the
board
as
an
undergraduate
rural
health.
Major
who
has
absolutely
no
legal
experience.
S
Additionally,
I
was
scared
to
be
in
the
same
room
as
the
student
who
had
been
harassing
me
all
summer
and
would
have
appreciated
the
ability
to
have
legal
counsel
speak
on
my
behalf
house
bill
290
addresses
this
exact
issue.
This
bill
requires
universities
to
notify
students
of
their
right
to
be
represented
by
council
or,
if
required,
by
title
ix,
an
advisor
at
each
phase
of
the
investigation
process,
allowing
students
due
process
should
not
be
burdensome
for
kentucky.
S
Universities
due
process
for
students
is
a
guarantee
of
fairness,
a
core
tenant
of
our
country
and
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky.
This
legislation
does
not
hinder
a
university's
ability
to
hold
students
accountable
for
offenses.
It
simply
asks
that
students
are
afforded
the
same
due
process
rights
on
campus
as
they
would
be
off
campus.
S
R
My
name
is
liam
gallagher,
I'm
a
sophomore
political
science
student
at
the
university
of
louisville,
I'm
a
student
senator
for
the
college
of
arts
and
sciences,
and
I
am
chairman
of
the
university
of
louisville
college,
republicans
out
of
fear
of
retaliation
due
to
a
letter
sent
out
by
the
university
of
louisville
earlier
this
week.
I
am
two
faculty
and
staff.
R
I
am
required
to
say
that
I
am
here
in
my
capacity
as
a
private
citizen
and
not
as
a
representative
of
the
university
of
louisville,
I'm
here
today
to
support
house
bill
290,
because
kentucky's
public
colleges
and
universities
have
a
broad,
unchecked
power
that
fails
to
afford
sufficient
due
process
rights
to
students
house
bill.
290
is
not
a
wildly
radical
bill
that
will
change
the
way
that
we
educate
students.
R
R
The
rights
currently
set
out
for
students
at
our
public
institutions
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
are
inconsistent
from
one
another
and
they
vary
from
student
to
student
depending
on
who
sits
in
the
chair.
This
bill
sets
a
standard
that
public
colleges
and
universities
would
be
required
to
follow.
R
R
A
I
know
we
have
a
couple
questions.
I
also
know
that
there
were
some
other
folks
here
that
might
want
to
very
very
briefly
express.
J
N
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
You
know
we
discussed
this
bill
last
year
and
in
in
this
committee,
and
I
talked
about
some
of
my
concerns
and
those
concerns.
N
Now.
I
feel
like
this
situation
is
not
that
far
fetched,
because
this
week
in
louisville
we've
had
an
individual
arrested
a
21
year
old
who's
been
associated.
I
don't
know
if
this
person
is
currently
associated
with
the
university
of
louisville,
but
we
had
a
21
year
old,
at
least
who
has
been
associated
in
the
past,
with
the
university
of
louisville.
Who's
been
arrested
on
attempted
murder
charges,
and
it's
been
all
in
the
news
that
this
person
is
associated
with
the
university
of
louisville
and
if
that
person
is
currently
associated
with
the
university
of
louisville.
N
M
Well,
we
kind
of
left
out
crimes,
because
that's
that's
something
that
you
know
the
university
shouldn't
have
to
deal
with.
I
don't
know
what
university
policies
are
when
you're
incarcerated
or
for
attempted
murder,
because
that
would
just
go
through
the
criminal
process,
so
I
would
assume
the
university
would
fall
back
on
whatever
their
process
is
for
attempted
murder.
M
E
Would
have
to
what
I
would
say
is
why
should
they
look?
I
don't
know
about
this
individual.
I
assume
he's
guilty
he's
got
witness,
but
I
think
we
need
to
be
careful
on
making
policy
broadly
because
of
this
particular
attempted
assassination,
because
we
have
we
have
people
who
are
acquit
or
charge
the
crimes,
all
the
time
that
didn't
commit
them
and
they
shouldn't
lose
government
benefits
whether
they're
benefits
for
for
for
various
programs
or
university
being
at
the
university
just
because
they
were
charged
with
a
crime.
A
I
wouldn't
think
that,
just
from
a
legal
perspective,
I
agree,
I
wouldn't
think
that
they
wouldn't
have
those
same
rights.
You
know
that's
more
of
an
administrative
policy.
Obviously
the
the
criminal
matter
is
going
to
take
precedence
and
he's
going
to
go
through
that
criminal
system
and
whether
he's
found
guilty
or
not
once
that's
over,
then
the
administrative
matter
would
kick
in
and
certainly
if
he
went
before
the
university
and
was
trying
to
still
be
a
student
or
whatever
he
would
have
the
right
to
representation.
A
Other
questions,
okay,
I
will
say
this.
I
know
how
hard
representative
banta
has
worked
on
this,
because
I
was
in
multiple
meetings
last
year
and
in
several
this
year,
and
and
that's
why
you
see
all
the
university
people
coming
in
and
out
of
this
building
is
because
they
have
been
repetitively
coming
in
here
to
meet
with
her
with
that
being
said,
we've
got
just
a
couple
minutes,
I'm
going
to
give
the
other
people
just
a
moment
if
they
want
to
say
something
very
brief.
A
We
have
with
us
and
they
did
sign
up
tyler
coward
on
the
on
the
monitor,
I
believe.
T
Yes,
thank
you
very
much,
mr
chairman.
I
will
be
very
brief.
I
know
you're
on
a
time
constraint.
My
name
is
tyler
coward,
I'm
the
senior
legislative
council,
the
foundation
for
individual
rights
in
education
or
fire.
We
are
a
non-partisan
nonprofit
organization,
dedicated
to
protecting
free
speech
and
due
process
rights
for
students
and
faculty
on
college
campuses.
T
Due
to
time
considerations,
all
I
will
say
is
fire
supports
this
bill.
We've
been
very
happy
to
work
both
with
represent
representative
banta
and
you,
mr
chairman,
on
this
bill,
and
I'm
very
happy
to
see.
We
think
it's
a
very
good
spot
right
now
with
regard
to
the
issues
of
arrest,
certainly
if,
if
an
individual
is
incarcerated
and
unable
to
make
it
to
classes,
there
are
attendance
issues.
There
are
ways
that
universities
can
deal
with
this.
T
While
somebody
is
incarcerated-
and
I
think
that
when
the
person,
if
a
person
is
unable
to
attend
class
because
of
those
issues,
the
the
institution
would
be
able
to
deal
with
that
under
an
academic
sort
of
framework,
as
opposed
to
punishing
that
person
for
an
alleged
crime
and
if
and
when
that
individual
is
is
out
of
out
of
incarceration,
may
be
able
to
have
their
their
their
case
with
the
institution
handled
once
they
are
no
longer
incarcerated.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
michael
frazier
is
here
with
us
today.
Michael,
do
you
want
to
say
something
very
briefly
sure.
Q
I'll
just
keep
this
extremely
brief.
My
name
is
michael
frazier.
One
of
the
many
hats
I
wear
is
the
executive
director
for
the
kentucky
student
rights
coalition,
our
stu,
our
organization
comprises
of
64
student
organizations
across
kentucky
those
who
are
from
across
the
political
ideology,
advocacy
organizat
organizations
on
campus,
and
we
are
happy
to
support
this
bill.
I
cannot
express
how
much
I
appreciate
our
students
or
many
students
who
went
through
revision
processes
talked
to
legislators.
Q
A
Q
There's
a
button.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
to
the
committee
for
hearing
me.
I
will
keep
this
extremely
brief.
My
name
is
braden
hood.
I'm
a
student
at
the
university
of
kentucky,
I'm
president
of
the
young
americans
for
freedom
chapter
at
the
university
and
a
member
of
the
uk
student
coalition.
Q
It's
my
intention
to
fully
support
hb
290,
as
I
believe
it
is
invaluable
due
to
my
own
experience
with
due
process
at
the
university
just
last
semester
had
an
experience
last
semester
where,
later
on,
in
the
semester,
probably
around
october,
I
found
out
that
I
was
in
disciplinary
action
with
the
university
for
failure
to
comply
with
the
masking
policy.
Q
The
next
semester-
and
it
was
thank
god
that
I
found
out
that
I
was
in
disciplinary
holding,
because
I
only
had
two
weeks
left
to
register
for
said
classes.
I
never
received
an
email
from
the
from
the
university
about
this,
and
so
when
I
went
to
go
check
my
student
account,
it
told
me
to
call
this
number
to
figure
out
how
I
could
get
the
hold
lifted
well
in
talking
to
them
on
the
phone.
Q
Apparently,
there
had
been
a
hearing
held
about
my
case
that
I
was
not
invited
to
not
that
I
would
have
necessarily
wanted
to
go
anyways
because
I
shouldn't
have
ever
been
in
that
position
and
I
was
not
giving
the
chance
to
appeal,
so
they
deemed
punishment,
as
in
the
form
of
a
1.
000.
Word
essay
on
why
uk's
masking
policy
is
the
greatest
thing
since
sliced
bread,
so
that
pretty
much
sums
it
up.
Q
I
had
to
write
the
essay
a
thousand
words
in
the
middle
of
a
semester
while
dealing
with
a
few
other
important
things,
as
a
college
student
does
in
order
to
be
able
to
register
for
classes
and
attend
my
final
semester.
My
senior
year,
which
is
a
semester,
so
I
think,
if
that
is
the
way
that
we're
handling
minor
offenses,
like
failure
to
mask
which,
by
the
way
is
those
punishments.
At
least
this
semester
are,
are
dished
out
very
selectively.
Not
many
people
will
still
follow
the
policy.
Q
I
would
hate
to
see
what
is
happening
to
students
who
are
accused
of
of
much
worse,
academic
offenses.
So
thank
you.
A
All
right,
thank
you
that
that
brings
us
to.
We
have
a
motion
on
the
bill
in
a
second
and
see
no
further
questions.
So,
madam
secretary,
please
call
the
roll.
C
B
B
O
M
Mr
chairman,
may
I
briefly
explain
my
votes
representative
bannon.
I
want
to
thank
you
for
bringing
this
measure.
I
think
it's
very
important,
and
I
also
want
to
thank
the
ladies
and
gentlemen
who
had
the
courage
to
speak
up
in
committee
today.
I
had
an
opportunity
to
review
the
letter
that
was
sent
from
the
university
of
louisville
and
I
was
kind
of
taken
aback
at
the
chilling
effect
that
that
could
have
for
an
individual's
ability
to
come
testify
in
committee
or
to
speak
out
in
favor
of
legislation.
M
C
My
vote,
mr
chairman.
Yes,
please.
Thank
you,
sir.
I'm
going
to
vote
yes,
but
I
I
want
us
all
to
be
clear
here.
The
constitution
is
an
agreement
between
you
and
your
government.
The
constitution
says:
if
the
government
tries
to
deprive
you
of
life
liberty
or
property,
then
you
have
due
process
rights.
C
You
do
not
have
the
right
to
public
secondary
education.
This
is
not
a
constitutional
right.
We
are
granting.
We
are
creating
something
we're
calling
due
process,
but
it
is
not
constitutional
due
process.
I
don't
really
like
what
we're
doing.
I
understand
it.
I
know
a
lot
of
work's
been
involved
in
it.
Like
I
said,
I'm
a
yes,
but
I
really
wish
we
would
quit
conflating
the
constitution
with.
C
I
I'd
like
to
briefly
explain
why
yes
vote.
Thank
you
michael
for
your
work
on
this.
You
are
one
of
the
most
tenacious
and
persistent
individuals
I've
ever
met,
and
that
is
a
high
compliment.