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A
Very
well,
we
have
a
Corman
duly
constituted
conduct
business
so
that
everyone
in
here
knows
at
this
meeting
we
are
only
hearing
House
Bill
135
in
House
Bill
553.
So
if
you
are
here
for
a
bill
other
than
that
and
would
like
to
leave,
please
feel
free
to
do
so.
I
just
want
everybody
to
know
right
now
we
do
have
other
business.
That
is
highly
likely
we
will
address
later
on
today,
but
at
this
meeting
those
are
the
only
two
bills
that
will
be
addressed
time.
A
A
A
good
manufacturer,
just-in-time,
inventory
right
just
in
time,
Representatives!
Well.
Gentlemen,
thank
you
for
making
the
trip
across
today
and
I
know
it's
kind
of,
as
the
last
day
always
is
a
little
bit
of
yo-yo,
but
if
the
sponsors
would
care
to
give
just
two
or
three
minutes
straight
now,
maybe
about
two
or
three
minutes
and.
C
A
C
Bright
representative
house
district,
71.,
Ken.
D
C
So
what
you
had
before
you
use
House
Bill
135.
It
is
the
autonomous
vehicle
bill.
It
provides
the
regulatory
framework
that
would
authorize
autonomous
vehicles
to
come
into
Kentucky.
It
has
been
a
long
process.
The
legislation
has
changed
quite
a
bit
since
it
was
initially
filed.
We
have
worked
with
local
governments
to
address
all
their
concerns.
The
the
trial
attorneys
to
address
their
concerns.
The
bill
does
several
things.
The
most
important
is.
Let
me
start
out
by
saying
these
vehicles
are
safe,
they're,
very,
very
safe,
they're,
much
safer
than
I
am
driving
down.
C
The
interstate
I
can
promise
you
that
they
cannot
speed,
they
have
to
obey
all
traffic
laws,
whereas
you
know
I
may
like
to
go
a
little
faster
than
the
speed
limit
they
can't
when
it
comes
to
a
work
Zone,
they
can't
speed
through
there.
They
have
to
obey
everything
if,
if
they're
operating
part
of
the
bill
says
that
they
have
to
if,
for
some
reason,
a
sensor
goes
down
or
the
weather
changes
and
they
can't
perform
as
safely
as
a
human
driver,
can
they
have
to
pull
over
and
assume
a
minimal
State?
C
E
I
will
just
add,
for
those
of
you
who
have
not
seen
or
ridden
in
an
autonomous
vehicle
I
had
the
opportunity
earlier
this
year
to
visit
several
companies
out
in
San
Francisco
that
deal
in
the
autonomous
vehicle
world.
The
technology
on
these
vehicles
is
something
that
is
just
I
think
out
of
this
world.
E
They
have
radar,
lidar
cameras
all
over
the
vehicle,
thermal
imaging
facial
recognition,
and
so
the
technology
is
just
something
that,
as
far
as
the
safety,
you
hear
a
lot
of
I
think
there's
been
some
some
concerns
over
the
safety
of
it,
but
the
backup
that
each
one
of
these
systems
have
that
will
shut
down
the
vehicle.
If
one
of
them
goes,
bad
I
think
is,
is
outstanding,
we'll
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions
that
there
might
be
and.
C
I
would
like
to
say
that
you
know
this.
Isn't
a
New
Concept,
it's
been
adopted,
this
piece
of
legislation
has
been
adopted
through
19
States,
so
we're
hoping
to
get
Kentucky
kind
of
on
the
Forefront
of
this,
so
that
we
can
see
the
investment
see
the
infrastructure
investment.
That's
going
to
come
with
this
because
Kentucky's
the
perfect
testing
ground.
We
have
Hills,
we
have
straight
stretches.
We
have
major
travel
corridors,
we
have
Urban
environments,
rural
environments,
we
have
four
seasons.
C
We
are
perfectly
positioned
to
take
advantage
of
this
and
you
you
know
it's
not
been
an
issue
and
Texas
and
and
California
Arizona
in
these
other
states,
and
we
just
feel
like
it.
It's
the
time
to
bring
these
here,
because,
whether
we
like
it
or
not,
they're,
coming
sooner
or
later,
and
by
putting
Kentucky
in
the
Opera
in
in
the
Forefront.
You
know
of
this
conversation
we're
positioning
ourselves
to
take
advantage
of
it
very.
A
D
Up
gladly,
thank
you
Mr
chairman.
They
did
a
great
job
of
explaining
the
bill
and
I
may
try
to
head
off
what
some
concerns
that
we've
heard
in
their
valid
concerns
that
you
know
you
passed
this
legislation
and
then
all
of
a
sudden
July
1
of
2023.
We
have
a
fleet
of
autonomous
vehicles,
just
roaming,
the
Commonwealth.
It
couldn't
be
further
from
the
truth.
This
legislation
is
a
model
once
again
adopted
and
now
20
States.
D
Now
that
Mississippi
has
passed
it
that
simply
allows
a
Kentucky
company
that
sees
fit
to
outfit
a
part
of
their
Fleet
to
utilize,
an
autonomous
vehicle
as
part
of
that
and
by
practice
not
strictly
by
Statute,
but
by
practice.
Any
entity
that
is
operating
an
autonomous
vehicle
in
a
jurisdiction
must
Define
the
map,
the
geofenced
area
in
which
they
operate.
They
must
do
their
own
mapping
they're,
not
simply
connecting
to
an
Apple
map
or
a
Google
map.
D
They
have
safety
riders
in
the
vehicle
that
remain
until
that
vehicle
is
ready
to
be
deployed,
for
instance,
in
Arkansas,
where
this
is
certainly
part
of
Walmart's
supply
chain
issue.
They
had
a
rider
in
the
vehicle
for
25
months.
It
didn't
need
to
be
prescribed
in
statute,
but
it
ensured
the
safety
of
the
vehicle
and
the
safety
of
the
folks
in
that
community
and
that
plays
out
in
state
after
state
where
this
is
deployed.
D
F
So
as
we're
looking
at
a
level
four
or
a
level,
five
is
being
referred
to
in
this
bill,
can
you
describe
a
little
more
specifically
what's
a
level
four
and
level
five
and
then
imagine
for
a
second,
that
vehicle
comes
upon
the
three
or
four
deer
that
we
see
most
mornings
most
evenings
throughout
our
roads
in
Kentucky?
How
does
this
level
4
or
level
5
vehicle
react
and
respond.
D
Thank
you,
Senator,
that's
an
excellent
question.
The
engineering
standard
identified
in
the
bill
is
an
internationally
recognized
Society
of
automated
of
automated
engine,
Society
of
Automotive
Engineers
standard,
my
apologies-
and
it's
it's
commonly
understood.
So
it's
maybe
best
to
compare
level
four
versus
what
you
may
have
in
your
own
automobile
Lane
assist.
These
would
be
kind
of
a
level
two
technology
not
to
to
speak
about
any
other
technology
currently
on
the
road.
But
you
know
the
owner
of
Twitter
has
a
very
high
profile
vehicle
that
has
an
advanced
driver
assistance
system.
D
That
too,
is
a
level
two
system.
So
when
we're
talking
about
a
level
four
system,
this
is
is
next
level,
both
by
definition
but
also
in
practice.
The
vehicle
is
designed
to
operate
without
a
human
driver.
It
may
be
an
aftermarket
car
that
is
outfitted
with
the
Radar
Radar
Radar
lidar
and
cameras
that
representative
Upchurch
mentioned,
or
it
could
be
a
small
delivery
type
vehicle.
That's
never
intended
to
have
a
human
being
in
that
to
answer
your
second
question,
this
was
a
fascinating
part
of
our
tripped.
It
to
see
these
in
action.
D
The
level
of
engineering
is
so
significant
that
in
AV
in
California
literally
understands
how
pigeons
in
the
road
behave
relative
to
an
AV
in
Arizona,
whose
pigeons
behave
in
an
entirely
different
manner.
I
know
that
sounds
like
such
a
silly
example,
but
I
hope
it.
It
does
display
the
amount
of
Technology
the
amount
of
thoughtfulness
that
goes
into
every
one
of
these
before
they
are
on
the
road.
C
And
with
the
example
of
the
deer,
these
things
can
perceive
them
so
much
better
than
the
human
eye.
Can
you
know,
whereas
you
know
air
headlights
have
to
hit
their
eyes?
You
know
so
that
you've
got
something
to
reflect
on.
You
know
they
have
thermal
imaging
they've
got
the
radar.
They
rely
on
sensors
that
are
so
much
more
sensitive
than
what
we
can
offer,
so
they
there
was
an
example
given
on
the
house.
C
Floor
of
you
know
that
there
was
a
vehicle
stranded,
300
yards
ahead
of
one
of
these
autonomous
vehicles,
and
it
was
able
to
to
immediately
slow
down
and
and
merge
into
the
lane
behind
it
and
it
the
vehicle
was
ended
up
rear-ended
because
it
had
picked
up
that
outside
of
the
the
periphery
that
the
humans
couldn't,
and
if
that
vehicle
hadn't
done,
that
the
driver
that
rear-ended
this
vehicle
would
have
more
than
likely
hit
and
killed
the
the
stranded
motorists.
So
they
can
pick
things
up
so
much
further
than
what
humans
can.
G
G
Could
you
all
spend
just
a
little
bit
of
time
telling
us
about
some
of
the
other
things
that
the
vehicle
can
do
in
terms
of
simply
backing
parking
cornering
and
those
kinds
of
things?
And
then
the
second
question
is:
could
you
Enlighten
us
a
little
bit
on
how
these
vehicles
will
be
powered?
What
power
source
they'll
be
using.
D
Another
great
question,
thank
you,
Senator
and
and
to
be
clear.
This
is
a
pretty
lengthy
bill
with
a
lot
of
new
language
and
that
new
language
very
tightly
addresses
issues
like
you
like
you
referenced.
The
dynamic
driving
task
is
a
new
term
we're
going
to
introduce
in
statute,
and
it's
a
prerequisite
before
any
autonomous
vehicle
can
be
on
our
roadways
that
it
must
perform
all
of
those
functions
or
it
is
simply
not
roadworthy
in
the
Commonwealth.
D
Excellent
so
I
referenced
that
in
in
some
cases,
particularly
the
robo
taxis.
In
all
likelihood,
these
will
be
electric
vehicles.
That's
not
that's
just
a
judgment
call
of
the
company.
Whatever
technology
is
available
in
the
instance
of
larger
trucks,
they
can
will
continue
to
use
traditional
combustible,
diesel-powered,
fuel
I
think
there's,
there's
nothing
inherent
about
them.
That
requires
that
they
be
any
specific
fuel
type,
Mr
Givens.
H
Want
to
express
my
appreciation,
representative,
Upchurch
and
and
representative
Bray.
Thank
you
for
bringing
this
legislation.
My
understanding
is.
There
was
an
interim
committee
meeting
hearing
and
transportation
about
this,
so
this
is
not
a
new
to
Kentucky
conversation.
This
conversation
has
been
ongoing
for
for
some
period
of
time.
Representative
Bray,
you
used
the
phrase
testing
ground
here
in
Kentucky.
I
have
a
sense
from
the
conversation
this
committee
and
my
limited
research
on
the
topic,
we're
actually
more
almost
of
a
Proving
Ground
than
we
are
a
testing
ground.
H
A
lot
of
the
testing
has
gone
on
and
I,
confident
that
this
is
the
right
direction
for
our
Commonwealth
and
I'm
excited
about
doing
it.
The
quick
question
I've
got
and
I
should
have
maybe
mentioned
this
to
the
three
of
you
before
I,
even
brought
it
up
here
in
committee,
but
one
of
you
may
know
what
percent
of
serious
accidents
are
attributable
to
human
error,
because
there's
a
lot
of
concern
among
folks
about
autonomous
vehicles
as
if
they're
going
to
be
unsafe
or
less
safe
or
frightening
to
not
have
a
driver
behind
the
wheel.
D
If
I'm
a
senator
Givens,
yes
and
actually
one
of
the
companies
that
are
in
support
of
this
bill,
we're
able
to
take
a
representative
sample
batch
of
that
of
accidents,
we're
able
to
kind
of
look
do
a
look
back
period
at
those
and
identify
what
percentage
of
these
accidents
and
they
could
be
fatality
accidents.
D
They
could
be
low-speed
accidents
where
attributable
attributable
specifically
to
human
error,
it's
93
percent,
and
when
we
talk
about
safety,
it's
a
good
opportunity
to
remind
everybody
and
I
don't
want
to
be
an
alarmist
by
any
stretch,
but
our
roads
are
currently
unsafe.
There
were
40
000
traffic
fatalities
in
the
U.S
in
2021.
It
looks
like
that
will
increase
in
2022
and
there
are
three
kentuckians
a
day
dying
on
our
highways
before
the
adoption
of
the
first
autonomous
vehicle
in
the
Commonwealth.
So
it's
an
excellent
question.
D
I
do
hope
we
take
the
opportunity
to
remember
the
Baseline.
Here
is
not
a
completely
safe
roadways.
You
know
void
of
of
human
failure.
I
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman,
just
just
you
mentioned
something
about
I,
can't
remember
what
state,
but
there
were
maybe
several
states
where
they
tested
these
vehicles
and
they
had
I
guess
they
elected
to
have
Travers
in
the
cab,
as
well
as
a
for
what
reason.
D
You
can
take
experience
from
other
states
and
begin
to
map,
go
a
block
or
two,
but
it's
very
important,
and
it's
inherent
in
in
the
ultimate
safety
of
the
vehicle
that
for
a
short
duration
and
that
can
be
compressed
the
more
we
know
about
the
vehicles
and
the
more
of
of
the
the
terrain
that
we're
in
a
human
is
constantly
double
checking
that
computer
before
it's
ever
roadworthy
and
if
the
driving
system
suggests
a
move
or
an
action,
that
a
human
being
wouldn't
do
that
human
being
notes
that
it
returns
back
to
its
maintenance,
garage
or
Depot,
and
that
is
re-engineered
so
that
it
doesn't
make
that
mistake
or
make
that
choice
again.
D
And
this
is
all
part
of
the
incremental
process
that
leads.
You
know
the
company
from
having
the
idea
to
utilize
an
AV
as
part
of
their
Fleet
to
an
ultimate
deployment.
So,
although
that
is
not
prescribed
in
the
bill,
that
is
a
very
common
practice
among
the
industry
to
ensure
that
they
are
not
putting
any
type
of
vehicle
on
the
roadway.
That
would
compromise
the
safety
of
the
citizens
or
that
company.
I
If
I
may
have
a
second
question
and
that's
exactly
where
I
was
headed,
it's
not
prescribed
in
the
bill,
but
it
is
an
incrutable
integral
part
of
the
safety
regimen.
It
sounds
like
in
terms
of
determining
whether
or
not
the
particular
system
and
our
vehicle,
or
whatever
adjustments
have
to
be
made
to
make
it
safe
to
ensure
is
safety.
Is
that
correct.
D
It
is
a
common
industry
practice
best
to
ensure
that
the
vehicle
surpasses
any
ability
for
any
I'm,
sorry
that
the
vehicle
surpasses
any
kind
of
safety,
standard
or
safety
requirement
that
you
would
expect
out
of
a
human
in
some
cases.
That
may
be
a
lengthy
time
frame
and
others
that
may
not
be
the
case,
but
before
a
company
you
know
takes
on
the
the
inherent
risk.
D
D
The
the
construct
of
the
bill
is
that,
if
it
is,
if
this
vehicle
meets
this
engineering
standard,
that,
if
it
is
a
privilege
granted
to
a
responsibility
required
of
a
human
driver
in
Kentucky,
so
too,
shall
it
be
for
for
this
vehicle
under
the
bill
there
would
be.
It
would
be
challenging
to
prescribe
an
exact
time
frame
for
safety
and
there's
been
no
proposal
other
than
one.
That
would
require
a
driver
in
the
vehicle
indefinitely
that
has
been
brought
forth
as
something
of
a
of
a
middle
ground.
D
So
it
would
be
unnecessary
because
that's
just
simply
a
matter
of
common
practice
that
these
companies
do
before
they
deploy.
I
A
J
This
represents
a
perversion
of
the
process
and
calls
into
question
the
motivations
of
the
proponents,
who
have
come
in
with
this
massive
Bill
and
provided
no
substantive
studies
or
research
to
prove
their
claims
purported
in
the
purported
Magnificent
safety
record
of
this
technology.
All
that
we
have
asked
for
was
to
take
into
consideration
the
significant
impacts.
The
introduction
of
of
this
emerging
technology
would
have
on
our
streets,
roads
and
highways
and
to
also
consider
an
outcome
envisioned
in
this
technology
and
a
subject.
That
is
a
focus
of
many
conversations
and
legislation.
J
Jobs
there's
been
there's
not
been
one
reference
to
the
impact
that
introducing
and
expanding
the
use
of
driverless
trucks,
buses
and
delivery.
Vans
would
have
on
the
jobs
of
those
drivers
who
would
lose
their
jobs
as
a
result
of
House
Bill
135,
not
a
word
about
how
this
might
affect
the
tens
of
thousands
of
truck
and
delivery
and
bus
drivers
of
the
Commonwealth
I.
Just
don't
get
it.
We
have
heard
about
a
truck
driver
shortage,
but
provided
no
data
to
detail
to
degree
to
which
such
a
shortage
exist
and
if
I
am
not
mistaken.
J
A
F
Thank
you
again
for
providing
us
enough
detail
and,
and
we
are
experiencing
a
tremendous
demand-
I'm
a
district
of
Northern
Kentucky
and
such
a
demand
for
new
buildings
being
built
and
and
so
much
growth.
F
Where
would
you
anticipate
that
potential
greater
demand
for
people
and
jobs
associated
with
this
sort
of
Revenue
move
and
autonomous
vehicles.
D
F
And
how
that
might
drive
more
need
for
workers,
thus
more
more
jobs,
jobs
opening,
certainly.
D
And
if
representative
Upchurch
wants
to
to
backfill
this
comment,
he's
more
than
welcome
I,
don't
begrudge
anybody
for
not
having
been
to
one
of
these
maintenance
Depots
in
these
garages,
but
whenever
you
see
one,
you
understand
the
amount
of
technology
that
goes
into
it
and
it's
not
guys
in
lab
coats,
pushing
ones
and
zeros
from
California
it's
on
site,
it's
in
state,
and
even
some
of
the
companies
that
are
deploying
these
elsewhere
are
working
with
local
Community
and
Technical
colleges
to
ensure
that
there
are
two-year
programs
for
individuals
who
want
to
put
those
skills.
D
You
know
to
test
in
the
real
in
the
real
Workforce.
So
it's
it's
a
fascinating
kind
of
Grease
Monkey
culture
that
we
don't
associate
with
lidar
radar
and
cameras.
As
far
as
those
you
know,
short-term
deployments,
you
know
we
currently
upgrade
our
corridors
to
reflect
economic
activity
and
the
reason
there
is
no
appropriation
in
this.
We
don't.
We
don't
need
to
widen
roads
to
accommodate
an
autonomous
vehicle.
D
If
there
are
say
two
points
in
the
the
CVG
Airport
that
are
connected
by
a
state
route,
this
bill
would
enable
them
to
utilize
that
roadway
to
increase
efficiency
and
move
the
supply
chain
more
effectively
in
that
area,
and
you
could
see
that
more
Hub
to
hub
spot
on
existing
corridors
where
roads
are
already
widened,
they're
appropriately
striped.
But
to
be
clear,
you
need
not
do
any
of
that
to
enable
this
legislation.
It
stands
on
its
own
I.
A
A
K
I
voters,
yes,
because
I
think
the
bill
needs
to
come
out
of
the
committee
when
I
first
heard
about
this
I
thought
this
was
kind
of
crazy,
but
you
know
what
I
thought
the
same
thing
in
like
1985
when
I
got
a
cell
phone
to
put
in
my
car
technology
is
advancing
and
we
don't
need
we're
going
to
get
left
behind
if
we
don't
watch
it.
So
I
continue
to
be
concerned
about
the
safety,
but
I
think
the
bill
needs
to
pass
through
this
committee.
Yes,.
I
In
the
exchange
that
I
just
had
with
the
presenter,
I
would
like
to
look
deeper
into
this
question
of
safety,
and
perhaps
I
can
have
a
sidebar
with
you,
so
I
can
fully
understand
it,
I'm
not
sure
what,
whether
that
what
you
reported
would
suggest
to
me
that
there
aren't
ways
of
ensuring
a
higher
level
of
standard
of
safety.
That
includes
a
human
being.
In
that
situation,
I'd
like
to
know
more
about
that
I
pass.
A
Hi
there
being
seven
eye
votes,
no
nay
votes
and
one
pass
vote.
The
measure
passes
was
favorable,
I'm,
sorry,
two
nay
votes
I
apologize.
You
think
two
slashes
on
the
thing
I
would
be
able
to
add,
but
it's
the
end
of
session.
So
all
right,
General
measure
passes
with
favorable
expression
John.
All
of
you.
Thank
you
for
your
testimony
today.
K
A
We
do
I'm
going
to
testify
to
this
from
the
Rostrum.
We
do
have
a
senate
committee
substitute
at
this
point
in
time
that
has
been
distributed
at
this
time.
The
chair
will
entertain
a
motion
on
the
committee
substitute
Senator
second
by
Dr
Douglas,
always
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
aye
opposed
like
sign
the
eyes.
Have
it
very
well
so
in
in
the
committee
substitute.
A
The
first
section
addresses
some
Courthouse
issues
related
to
construction.
We
have
going
on
right
now
and
in
essence,
what
we
have
done.
The
dollar
figures.
The
way
they
work
out
is
we
provide
for
the
increased
costs
of
financing
related
to
those
courthouses
for
those
courthouses
that
had
requested
additional
square
feet.
A
We
put
in
there
the
ability
for
them
to
achieve
that
so
long
as
they
can
keep
their
construction
costs
at
575
dollars
per
square
foot
on
those
courthouses
moving
along
the
Hardin
County
Courthouse
is
in
need
of
additional
monies
for
their
for
their
HVAC
project.
That
money
is
appropriated
in
here
for
three
million
dollars
from
the
administrative
office
of
the
courts.
However,
we
do
specify
and
I
want
to
be
very,
very
clear.
A
Pursuant
to
KRS
chapter
26a,
Hardin
County
shall
accept
title
to
the
facility
within
six
months
of
notification
by
the
administrative
office
of
Courts
of
the
completion
of
the
project,
and
it
is
the
intent
of
the
general
assembly
to
ensure
that
that
transfer
does
occur
further.
There
was
a
a
jail
grant
that
was
due
to
lapse
related
to
Communications
between
jails
and
the
courthouses
that
is
extended
for
one
more
year,
moving
a
lot
down
along
the
city
of
Barberville.
Previously
this
is
on
page
five.
A
A
Moving
on
over
to
page
seven
for
the
parks,
the
Administration
has
informed
us
of
some
emergency
repairs
necessary
at
both
Jenny
Wiley
and
Lake.
Barkley
appropriation
from
the
previously
authorized
amounts
for
the
renovation
of
the
state
parks
is
pulled
out
in
the
amount
of
seven
and
a
half
and
five
and
a
half
million
dollars
a
piece
for
those.
A
The
board
of
Respiratory
Care,
as
well
as
social
work,
were
in
need
of
additional
restricted
fund
authorization
to
effectuate
some
raises
in
things
that
is
granted
in
section
six
and
seven
in
Section
8.
There
is
a
recalculation
of
the
seek
formula
at
the
beginning
of
the
2022-2023
school
year,
which
the
attendance
data
will
be
utilized
in
that,
but
also
no
school
district
shall
receive
less
than
the
exact
final
amount
that
had
previously
been
calculated.
A
So
this
will
allow
for
the
growth
therein,
but
I
do
want
to
be
very,
very
clear
that
the
seek
formula
is
due
to
reset
for
the
next
school
year.
It
is
the
intention
of
the
general
assembly
that
the
seek
formula
will
reset
in
the
next
school
year,
so
everybody
needs
to
be
making
their
plans
as
appropriate.
For
that,
those
are
the
provisions
of
this
bill
in
its
entirety.
Are
there
any
questions
from
the
members
of
the
committee
of
emotion
by
Senator?
Webb
is
second
by
Senator
Mays
Bledsoe
Madam
Secretary.
Please
call
the
roll.
A
G
A
Those
like
sign
the
eyes
have
it
measure
passes
onto
the
floor
with
favorable
expression.
I
I
will
say
that
there
is
a
possibility
for
another
meeting
yet
today.
I
would
anticipate
that
if
it
should
occur,
it
would
be
on
the
other
side,
but
there
is
that
possibility,
and
also
leadership
has
expressed
me
that
all
members,
when
we
are
finished
here
immediately
return
to
the
floor
so
that
we
can
conduct
our
business
over
there.