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From YouTube: Senate Standing Committee on Health & Welfare (9/9/21)
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A
B
A
Present
all
right
well,
thank
you
all
for
accommodating
this
meeting
on
the
fly.
This
is
senate
joint
resolution
number
three,
which
was
filed
a
couple
of
days
ago,
and
it's
a
joint
resolution
establishing
that
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
will
recognize
a
positive,
covid19
antibody
test
as
equivalent
to
having
been
vaccinated
against
covid19
and
declaring
an
emergency.
A
I
don't
know
if
anybody's
had
a
chance
to
review
this.
Like
I
said
I
filed
it
on
the
first
date
of
special
session.
We
heard
some
testimony
here
last
week.
I
guess
now,
I'm
remember
the
days
that
things
have
blurred
together,
but
a
good
testimony
from
a
lab
and
a
dr
mcconnell
who
was
a
cardiovascular
researcher,
who's
done
a
lot
of
study
on
immunology
and
works
with
a
company
called
adatext
and
had
referenced
a
study
which
you
all
should
have
before
you
in
terms
of
trying
to
measure
neutralizing
antibody
levels.
A
We
know
there's
a
lot
of
concern,
particularly
from
a
lot
of
our
members
who
are
here
in
the
general
assembly
and
from
a
lot
of
our
constituents
who
have
had
a
an
infection
already
and
are
being
required
as
part
of
either
from
an
employer
or
from
someone
else
to
have
a
vaccination
as
part
of
their
employment.
We're
not
affecting
that
in
this
bill.
We
don't
want
to
do
anything.
That's
going
to
tell
a
business
whether
or
not
they
have
you
know
if
they
make
that
a
condition
of
employment.
A
However,
I
think
it
is
important
for
us
as
a
state,
because
there
are
other
international
governments
in
particular
that
recognize
people
who've
had
a
previous
infection
and
an
antibody
response
to
be
equal
to
being
vaccinated
for
entrance
into
their
country
during
this
time,
and
so
I
drafted
this
resolution,
where
you
can
see
all
the
whereases
and
the
conditions
at
the
beginning
of
the
resolution,
but
at
the
very
end
where
you
see
it,
be
it
resolved
in
the
three
sections
that
again,
in
accordance
with
the
national
standards
for
vaccinations,
commonwealth
of
kentucky
and
any
agent
agency
authority,
board,
bureau,
commission,
department,
division
or
other
entity
of
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
shall
recognize
individuals,
including,
but
not
limited
to
state
employees
whose
serology
test
results,
show
measurable,
neutralizing
antibodies
to
cover
19
quantified
above
the
20th
percentile
of
the
population
of
immunized
individuals
as
equivalent
to
being
fully
vaccinated
against
the
virus
that
causes
covet.
A
19.
people
are
going
to
ask:
can
I
just
go
get
a
simple
antibody
test
and
I've
got
them
present.
Is
that
sufficient
that
doesn't
measure
quantitative
or
the
actual
number
of
antibodies
for
people
that
have
got
antibodies
already
present
if
you're
in
the
bottom
fifth
of
those
people
of
lower
antibodies,
we're
going
to
say
for
the
sake
of
the
state,
at
least
for
the
next
four
months?
A
You
probably
don't
have
adequate
immunity
if
you're
in
the
top
80
percentile
or
the
top
20th
percentile,
but
top
80
of
people
who
have
got
antibodies
present
and
you've
got
measurable
antibodies.
Where
you
can
show
my
lab
results
show
that
I've
got
an
adequate
response
that
we're
going
to
consider
you
as
having
been
vaccinated
to
the
equivalent
of
that
and
again,
we
heard
some
good
testimony
had
a
lot
of
questions.
People.
This
is
not
something
to
say
you
shouldn't
get
vaccinated.
A
I
think,
if
anything,
it
might
make
some
people
alert
to
the
fact
that
they've
had
the
infection
and
probably
don't
have
adequate
protection
and
need
to
get
vaccinated,
people
that
have
made
already
been
vaccinated.
Who
might
need
boosters
people
who
didn't
know
that
they
had
been
infected
and
may
have
an
adequate
antibody
response
already
been
exposed,
and
so
it
might
alert
some
folks
to
proceed
with
that.
But
then
others
who
have
already
had
a
natural
infection
are
not
interested
in
taking
the
vaccination
to
allow
them
to
be
considered
the
same.
A
The
cdc
has
put
out
studies,
as
has
really
the
country
of
israel,
which
has
done
a
lot
of
studies
in
this
regard,
who
have
found
that
people
that
have
been
naturally
infected
and
survived
often
will
have
a
stronger
antibody
response
than
those
who
have
been
vaccinated
artificially,
and
so
in
honor
of
that,
because
there
are
individuals
out
there,
particularly
medical
providers.
I've
talked
to
physicians
and
nurses,
who
have
had
the
infection
already
but
are
leery
of
taking
the
vaccination,
don't
want
to
and
saying
I've
already
got
a
natural
immunity
shouldn't.
A
I
be
allowed
to
count
that
as
a
vaccination
scientifically
and
medically,
I
would
have
to
agree
now.
How
long
does
that
immunity
last,
for
we
don't
know
we're
still
learning
as
we
go.
You
know
we're
covering
the
original
variant
and
the
current
delta
variant,
and
that's
why
this
bill
is
only
good
really
until
january.
The
I
think
I
put
the
data
here
31st,
I
believe,
yeah
january
31st
of
next
year.
A
So
until
we
return
yeah
january
31
is
in
section
two
it's
going
to
expire
once
we're
back
in
session,
because
if
we
have
a
new
variant
like
lambda
or
mu
variant-
and
we
find
out
later
that
hey
your
antibodies-
that
you've
gotten
from
vaccines
or
from
the
previous
variants
of
natural
infection
no
longer
cover
that
we
don't
want
to
make
this
a
permanent
type
of
exemption.
We
know
that
when
people
catch
the
flu
every
year,
you're
supposed
to
get
an
annual
flu
shot.
Why?
A
Because
you
may
have
had
immunity
from
the
flu
last
year,
but
if
it
mutates
to
a
different
bug,
your
previous
immunity
doesn't
cover
it.
You
should
take
a
shot
for
the
flu
every
year.
This
is
probably
going
to
be
the
case
for
covid
moving
forward,
depending
on
how
long
that
immunity
lasts.
For
so
we
wanted
to
make
it
sure
that
we
covered
it.
There's
a
lot
of
folks
out
there
we're
not
obligating
our
employers.
A
We
know
there's
a
lot
of
employers
that
are
requiring
vaccinations,
we're
going
to
recognize
this
for
the
commonwealth
and
for
the
agencies
under
the
state
and
the
commonwealth.
I
don't
believe
that
we're
obligating
any
state
employees
or
anything
along
those
lines.
However,
that
may
become
the
case
if
the
executive
branch,
which
is
to
require
that
of
state
employees,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
provide
at
least
those
who
have
had
an
infection,
an
opportunity
to
say
I've
got
enough
antibodies,
I'm
protected
already,
and
that
would
count
until
january
the
31st
when
we
return.
A
A
I'm
sure
there's
lots
of
questions
be
willing
to
entertain
any
that
you
might
have
senator
gibbons.
E
A
Correct
we
had
an
hour
meeting
and
there
was
an
article
that
was
referenced,
because
I
think
the
question
was
made
of
the
lab.
How
did
you
come
to
that
conclusion?
There's
a
white
paper
that's
been
produced.
This
is
a
very
reputable
medical
journal
and
it
does
produce
a
lot
of
this
information.
Like
I
said,
the
cdc
has
also
recognized
natural
immunity.
As
being,
I
think,
there's
been
several
articles
published,
recognizing
that
it's
strong,
the
natural
infection
is,
you
have
the
antibody
response
is
stronger
than
vaccine.
A
However,
again
the
risk
of
catching
a
natural
infection
is
death
and
major
medical
complications
from
it.
So
I
encourage
folks,
despite
that,
not
to
say
I'm
going
to
wait
to
catch
a
natural
infection
because
you
probably
have
a
bad
outcome.
You
may
have
a
natural,
a
bad
outcome
from
either
death
or
clots
or
different
things
that
can
occur
from
this
virus.
A
I'd
encourage
you
still
to
get
vaccinated,
but
I
think
it
is
important
that
once
you've
had
the
infection,
if
you
have
an
adequate
antibody
response,
at
least
for
the
in
the
short
term,
that
that
should
be
equivalent
to
being
vaccinated.
E
A
No,
there
is
no
requirement
again.
This
would
have
to
be
something
that
states
not
going
to
pay
for
this
test.
An
individual
would
have
to
find
a
way
to
pay
for
it,
I'm
not
sure
if
their
insurance
may
be
covering
it
as
well,
but
they
would
likely
have
to
find
a
way
to
pay
for
that
test.
To
get
that
done
and
again,
then
they
can
use
those
results.
Based
on
on
that.
A
E
E
A
That
that's
correct,
so
just
because
you
have
a
positive
covet
test
again
and
as
we
heard
in
the
testimony
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
or
a
week
and
a
half
ago,
you
could
have
had
a
positive
covid
and
people
got
their
blood
levels
checked
and
said:
whoa.
I
have
a
very
low
antibody
level.
I
have
a
response.
So
if
you
go
get
the
quick
little
test,
that
shows
a
line
that
says
hey.
A
I've
got
antibodies,
but
you
may
not
have
enough
antibodies
and
that's
why
we're
still
hearing
a
lot
of
medical
professionals
saying
even
if
you've
had
the
infection
they're
encouraging
people
to
get
vaccinated.
I'm
a
case
in
point.
I
picked
up
kovid
before
the
vaccinations
were
available.
After
once
the
vaccinations
were
available.
I
took
the
full
vaccine
series.
I've
had
my
booster
already
as
well,
and
so
I've
gotten
you
know,
I'm
full
of
antibodies.
A
I
certainly
hope
I
haven't
had
my
blood
levels
checked,
but
it's
because
of
that
risk
someone
can
have
an
infection
think
they're
protected.
They
may
not
be
fully
protected,
but
again,
if
you
get
it
measured
and
you're,
if
it's
a
quantifiable
level,
it
can't
just
be
having
the
infection
you're
correcting
your
assessment,
sir.
A
Certainly-
and
I've
said
it
before
in
our
committee
hearings
and
I've
said
it
in
my
district-
I've
published
articles
which,
unfortunately,
some
of
our
newspapers
haven't
been
willing
to
to
put
out
there,
but
I'd
encourage
people,
and
this
is
something
that
I
feel
very
strongly
about.
Some
people
have
heard
my
remarks
on
the
floor
today
being
critical
of
the
governor
and
his
approach
that
shaming
people,
whether
they
wear
a
mask,
not
wear
a
mask
whether
they
get
a
vaccine,
not
get
it
get
a
vaccine.
A
All
that
again,
the
political
rhetoric
on
both
sides
is
not
productive.
Here.
You
know
this.
If
people
are
concerned,
if
you
have
questions,
go
talk
to
your
doctors,
go
talk
to
your
nurse
practitioner,
whoever's
in
charge
of
your
medical
care
that
you
trust
with
your
health
care
issues.
Go
talk
to
them.
Ask
them
the
questions,
relay
the
concerns
that
you
have.
Let
them
discuss
this
with
you
and
and
some
people
it's
an
immediate
conclusion.
Yes,
I
want
to
get
at
others.
It
may
take
a
long
time.
A
Others
say
I
don't
want
to
do
it
at
all,
but
I
encourage
you
go
have
the
discussion
there
with
someone
that
you
trust
not
with
someone
who's
politically
inclined?
I
fear
that
we've
lost
the
narrative
and
I
think
government
tried
to
do
what
it
could
in
terms
of
encouraging
it,
and
some
people
responded,
but
the
useful
usefulness
of
that
has
been
expired.
A
I
would
encourage
people
really
if
you
don't
think
that
covet
19
is
real.
I
can
tell
you
that
I've
been
doing
this
now,
for
you
know,
for
quite
a
while.
There's
been
a
lot
of
viruses.
We've
encountered
a
lot
of
people
that
can
get
sick
and
lots
of
viruses.
The
common
cold
is
something
that
we
encounter
that
can
make
people
very
sick,
they
don't
think
much
of,
but
I've
watched
a
lot
of
influenza
year
to
year
to
year.
A
People
have
gotten
used
to
the
influenza
virus
and
they
think
it's
not
that
big
of
a
deal
influenza
kills
a
lot
of
children
every
year.
It
kills
a
lot
of
adults.
Every
year
I've
seen
it
kill
my
colleagues
who
aren't
protected
with
vaccines.
So
we
encourage
influenza
vaccines
every
year.
Covet
is
a
brand
new
virus,
we're
learning
as
we
go
and
because
we
don't
know
everything
in
full
detail.
We're
encouraging
people
that
again,
just
because
you've
had
the
virus
doesn't
mean
that
you're
necessarily
fully
protected.
A
So
if
you're
uncertain,
if
you
want
to
get
a
blood
test,
you
can
get
that.
But
if
you,
if
you
don't
want
to
get
that,
I'd,
encourage
you
to
take
the
vaccine
for
those
of
you
who
have
not
had
the
virus.
Please
get
the
vaccination
mathematically
speaking
no
matter
what
you're
looking
at
and
all
the
risks
of
taking
a
vaccine.
A
Mathematically
speaking
getting
the
vaccination
makes
sense
because
it
does
reduce
your
risk
of
hospitalization,
serious
illness
and
sudden
death,
and
it
also
helps
again
once
you
get
that
and
you're
protected
it'll,
typically
reduce
your
risk
of
transmitting
that
to
others
as
well.
So
I
would
encourage
everybody
out
there,
please
get
vaccinated
and
that's
as
simple
as
I
can
get
it.
Thank
you.
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Not
I
would
add
to
that.
I
had
the
opportunity
to
meet
with
administration,
the
chief
medical
officer
and
others
from
baptist
health
paducah
the
other
day
and
during
our
meeting
we
got
into
a
conversation
about
the
history
of
the
vaccine,
and
I
did
not
realize
that
this
vaccine
had
has
actually
been
under
testing
for
many
many
years
and
once
they
they
explained
the
process
to
me
and
how
that
they
have
researched
this
and
it
has
been
tested
that
they
were
able
to
adapt
to
the
the
current
covit
19.
D
They
were
able
to
adapt
that
vaccine
to
fit
this
particular
pandemic,
and
so,
when
I
left
there,
my
my
first
question
was:
why
doesn't
everyone
know
this
because
I
even
had
a
higher
comfort
level.
D
After
I
heard
the
doctors
talk
about
the
history,
I
guess
the
mrna
is
that
yes-
and
so
that's
that's
a
message
that
I
think
our
people
need
to
hear
more
of
perhaps
to
get
a
little
bit
more
comfortable
with
it
and
and
really
that
that
information
needs
to
come
from
the
doctor.
And
that's
really
one
of
the
reasons
why
the
physicians
need
to
have
access
to
the
vaccines
in
their
office,
and
I
know
we're
making
moves
in
that
direction.
I
think
that's
going
to
be
very
helpful.
A
That's
a
great
question
and
I
haven't
researched
to
know
how
many
do
them
and
we
heard
one
that
came
in
presented
here
in
committee.
We
do
know
that
I
had
someone
reach
out
today
and
mention
that
they
think
kroger's
has
two
tests
that
people
go
to
kroger,
sometimes
for
testing.
They
can
get
just
a
qualitative
to
see
if
you've
got
antibodies
present,
and
I
inform
that
person.
That's
not
going
to
be
adequate
to
fulfill
the
requirements
in
this
document.
You'd
have
to
get
one.
That's
quantifiable,
measured
quantity.
A
They
said,
there's
a
more
extensive
one
that
could
be
done
and
if
they
can
measure
that
and
give
you
that,
in
that
top
20
percentile
and
above
that,
you
could
qualify
for
this.
So
you'd
have
to
find
a
lab
that
could
do
that.
It's
not
just
a
simple
finger.
Stick.
It
have
to
be
a
blood
draw
and
measurable
antibody
levels.
So
if
someone
really
says
hey,
I've
had
the
infection.
They
want
to
go
out
of
their
way
to
make
sure
they're
really
that
adamant
about
getting
the
vaccination.
A
Then
they
can
use
this
as
an
alternative,
but
how
many
labs
are
doing
this?
I'm
not
certain,
I
do
know
that
there's
at
least
one
in
our
state,
at
least
in
our
in
my
district.
I
would
imagine,
there's
others
who
can
do
the
same
thing
to
your
point
on
the
messenger
rna.
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
information
on
facebook
out
there
about
who
invented
this
therapy,
and
I'm
going
to
put
this
out.
There
is
a
a
hungarian
biochemist.
Her
name
is
catelyn.
Carrico
is
the
person
who
invented
this
very
interesting
story.
A
If
anybody
wants
to
read
about
her,
she
was
in
a
communist
controlled
country
in
hungary
was
developing
messenger
rna
technology.
Her
ideas
were
dismissed
by
the
general
medical
community
and
they
said
that
will
never
work.
You
can
never
produce
a
complex
antibody
through
a
messenger
rna
technology
and
she
was
just
dismissed.
She
fled
hungary
with
her
husband
with
her.
A
I
think
I
remember
she
had
a
daughter
daughter's
teddy
bear
some
money
stuff
from
that
teddy
bear
to
survive
and
escaped
that
country
at
that
time
and
then
came
to
the
united
states
where
she
kept
pushing
her
idea
and
her
concept.
And
now
it's
you
know
a
breakthrough
effectively
for
this.
A
For
the
world,
in
terms
of
vaccinations
for
the
pfizer
and
the
moderna
and
anything
that's
messenger,
rna
technology,
we
do
have
two
types
of
vaccines
that
remind
people,
so
the
pfizer
and
moderna
types
require
very
cold
storage,
which
a
lot
of
our
doctors
probably
can't
do.
But
johnson
johnson
is
one
that's
more
of
a
traditional
vaccine
like
you
would
see
from
a
flu
shot
where
they
take
a
portion
of
virus
and
splice
it
into
an
adenovirus.
A
And
then
your
body
recognizes
that
portion
mounts
an
antibody
and
produces
a
response,
and
those
are
the
types
that
our
doctors
could
probably
go
ahead
and
use.
So
that's
more
of
a
traditional
vaccines.
One
time
shot,
pfizer
modern
is
a
series
of
two
shots
that
she
helped
develop
and
she
I
mean,
there's
a
lot
of
misinformation
about
who's,
taking
credit
for
that
she's,
the
individual,
who
really
came
up
with
the
idea
very
interesting
story
again:
another
example
of
an
immigrant
who
really
helped
advance
things
in
america
and
in
the
world.
D
A
A
Anything
that
you
get
is
going
to
have
a
potential
side
effect.
Nothing
is
100,
a
lot
of
people
say
well.
If
it's
going
to
protect
you,
how
come
people
are
still
getting
infections.
I
think
this.
This
resolution
goes
to
that
that
people
can
develop
antibody
levels
that
are
not
adequate,
and
so,
if
you
have
lower
antibody
levels,
you
think
you're
protected.
A
You
get
a
secondary
infection.
On
top
of
that,
also,
the
fact
that
we're
recommending
boosters
for
a
lot
of
this
is
that
sometimes
you
need
to
have
a
bigger
response.
You've
got
a
different
technology
to
manufacture
that
antibody.
You
may
be
requiring
those
to
maintain
your
antibody
levels
high
enough
than
using
a
natural
immunity
model.
A
C
I
have
several
questions
please,
if
I
may,
what
other
states
are
are
using
this
neutralizing
antibody
levels
in
lieu
of
a
vaccine
requirement
at
this
point?
Do
we
know.
A
This
is
something
that
I
developed
specifically
for
this
session,
so
I'm
not
sure
of
anyone.
Who's.
C
Got
this
language
and
this
article
in
nature,
medicine,
which
is
from
australia,
I
believe,
are
they
doing
this
in
australia?
At
this
point.
C
Okay,
so
we
would
be
the
absolute
first.
A
To
be
responsible
by
not
making
this
a
perpetual
thing,
it's
just
for
the
next
four
months
until
we
return
again,
I'm
hopeful
that
these
new
variants
that
are
out
there
don't
catch
wind
and
start
causing
other
surges,
but
I
suspect
the
way
this
virus
is
starting
to
behave.
We
might
see
that
in
the
future,
so
I
want
to
be
responsible
about
limiting
it
just
to
a
very
short
time
frame.
C
All
right,
so,
if
I'm,
if
I
may,
on
my
article's,
not
numbered,
but
in
the
testimony
that
we
got
last
week,
that
gentleman,
who
was,
I
thought
fascinating,
I
mean
basically
was
able
to
demonstrate
that
in
his
co.
Well,
this
is
a
very
small.
C
we're
saying
using
that
same,
and
I
don't
know
what
we're
measuring
here.
I
don't
know
this
is
23
millimeters
of
mercury.
I
have
no
idea
what
we're
measuring
but
you're
saying
that
we're
going
to
continue
we're
going
to
con
we're
going
to
say
that
20
is
adequate
to
show
that
you've
had
a
prior
infection
and
if
you've
had
a
prior
infection,
then
we
don't
need
to
vaccinate.
You
is
what
we're
trying
to
do
here.
A
No,
no,
not
at
all,
not
at
all,
okay
and
we're
not
we're
not
saying
and
again
what
what
it
might
actually
do
doctor
is
that
there
might
be
people
out
there
who
think
they're
protected.
A
Who
said
I've
already
had
the
infection,
so
I
don't
need
a
vaccine
and
I
want
to
make
sure
so,
I'm
not
you
know
and
they'll
go
and
get
the
test
and
realize.
Oh,
my
goodness,
my
levels
are
too
low,
so
we're
actually
going
to
say
if
you're
below
us,
you
may
have
had
an
antibody
response,
but
you're
not
protected
in
that
situation.
What
we're
kind
of
trying
to
argue
that
you
should
consider
getting
a
booster,
so
we're
not
again
we're
not
saying
that
you
don't
need
to
have
a
vaccination,
not
at
all.
A
You
know
it
again.
I
would
encourage
people
to
get
vaccinated.
People
often
ask
me:
if
I've
had
the
infection,
do
I
have
to
get
one
I'd
say
it's
recommended:
it's
not
going
to
hurt
you
to
do
so,
but
there
are
some
who
are
some
who
are
adamantly
opposed
to
that,
and
so
then
the
question
becomes
all
right.
A
If
we're
recognizing
people
that
are
vaccinated
as
being
protected
and
reducing
the
risk
of
transmission
people
with
natural
infections
in
the
same
reaction
in
their
bloodstream
in
the
same
reaction
in
their
immune
system
and
has
an
adequate
level
should
be
recognized
as
the
same
thing
and
that
would
apply
again.
I
use
the
example
of
chickenpox.
If
a
six
month
old
child
came
to
see
me
in
the
office
and
they
had
the
chickenpox,
you
would
treat
them
for
the
chickenpox
when
they're
due
for
that
shot
at
one
year
of
age.
A
Do
I
give
them
the
vaccine
for
chickenpox?
I
don't
need
to
because
they've
had
a
natural
infection
and
they're
protected
and
that's
true
of
anybody
who's
ever
had
the
chickenpox
is
once
you've
had
it.
You
have
essentially
lifelong
immunity,
so
it
applies
the
same
way.
We
know
this
is
a
novel
virus.
I'm
not
saying
this
is
going
to
be
a
perpetual
thing.
I
don't
know
if
it's
going
to
be
a
lifelong
immunity,
we'll
learn
more.
As
I'm
sure,
as
we
go
for
the
first
two
strains,
it
appears
that
a
natural
infection
is
probably
stronger.
A
Antibody
response
than
vaccinations
are,
which
is
why
I
think
we're
seeing
a
lot
of
folks
that
are
getting
reinfected,
sometimes
with
the
with
the
vaccines.
But,
however,
all
that
being
said
getting
vaccinated,
we
do
know.
I
mean
you
look
at
our
hospital
census
right
now.
You
know
it's
a
10
11
to
1
ratio
of
people
that
are
unvaccinated,
who
are
deathly
ill
from
those
who
are
vaccinated.
A
There
are
those
who
are
not,
and
there
are,
though
you
know-
and
so
I
I
wanted
to
just
recognize
that
in
this
resolution,
that
for
state
employees,
state
agencies
we're
going
to
recognize
that
I'm
not
aware
of
any
state
agencies
that
are
being
required
to
take
vaccinations,
but
we're
going
to
recognize
people
that
have
a
natural
antibody
response,
at
least
for
the
next
four
months,
to
have
the
equivalent.
C
All
right,
if
I
may,
sir
chairman
there,
there
are
some
things
in
this
article
that
that
reflect
my
actual
pre-existing
knowledge
base,
and
I
just
for
those
of
us
that
in
this
room
who
aren't
practicing
medicine,
I
just
want
to
bring
them
out,
and
these
pages
aren't
numbered.
So
I
I
am,
I
can't
refer
to
the
numbers,
but
it
basically
says
an
important
caveat
to
this
analysis
is
the
implicit
assumption
that
neutralization
titus
itself
confers
protection
from
severe
disease
or
severe
infection,
and
guys
we
don't
work
on
assumptions
in
medicine.
C
I
mean
you
can
hope
you
can
pray.
You
can
think
you
can
test,
you
can
prove
you
can
confirm,
but
as
of
this
point,
we
are
not
yet
we
do
not
have
conclusive
scientific
data
available
to
us.
That
shows
that
your
level
of
antibody
response
in
any
way
correlates
with
a
definite
immunity
to
infection.
We
just
don't
know
that
yet
I
mean
we
would
like
to
know
that
we
want
that
to
be
true.
C
We
would
love
to
know
that,
but
we
don't
in
this
article
I
mean
clearly
says
an
important
caveat-
is
the
implicit
assumption
that
neutralization
titus
itself
converts
protection
and
then
it
goes
to
the
next
page
and
it
says
understanding
the
relationship
between
measured
immunity
and
clinical
protection
from
sarge
covetous
infection
is
urgently
needed
to
plan
the
next
steps
in
the
covet
19
vaccine.
Could
I
could
I
very
respectfully
suggest
that
we
hold
off
until
january
on
this
suggestion.
A
Well
and
you're
entitled
to
your
opinion
and
vote,
I
would
argue
that
this
same
technology
of
measuring
neutralizing
antibodies
is
how
we've
confirmed
immunity
with
the
use
of
the
vaccinations
that
we're
recommending
now.
So
I
mean,
if
the
argument's
going
to
be
that
this
natural
immunity,
we
have
to
be
careful,
we're
recommending
vaccines
for
people.
How
are
we
confirming
that
people
have
immunity
and
how
we
confront
the
vaccines
work
for
pfizer?
A
They
measured
their
neutralizing
antibody
levels
and
confirmed
that
there
was
an
adequate
response,
so
the
same
definition
that
we
use
to
make
that
vaccines
work
is
the
same
definition
we're
applying
to
this.
It's
exactly
the
same,
so
there's
been
and
again.
If,
if
we're
going
to
say
well,
there's
no
connection
well,
then
you
would
argue
that
the
vaccines
are
not
effective,
which
I
would
argue
that
they
are
because
they've
had
an
adequate
neutralizing,
antibody
response.
If
you
look
at
the
technology
of
how
they've
measured
pfizer,
moderna,
johnson
and
johnson,
how
do
they
work?
A
C
If
you'd,
like
another
question,
sure
I
mean
on
the
last
page
of
the
article,
it
clearly
says
the
association
of
neutralization
with
protection
across
these
studies
does
not
prove
that
neutralizing
antibodies
are
necessarily
mechanistic
and
mediating
protection.
It
is
possible
that
neutralization
is
correlated
with
other
immune
responses.
I
mean
we
don't
know,
we
know
what
we're
measuring.
C
We
can't
just
say:
oh
the
data
says
you're
safe.
The
data
has
not
gotten
to
that
point.
Yet
let's
wait
four
months,
people
are
exploring
this
on
a
daily
basis,
but
we're
not
quite
there
yet
I
mean
my
experts
texting
me
during
our
last
committee
meeting
texting
me
now
saying
karen
stop
this.
Don't
let
this
go
on.
It's
not
good
enough.
C
C
A
You
senator
it's
not
saying
that
it
doesn't
work
and
again
we're
not
mandating
anybody
to
do
anything.
A
Recognizing
that
the
assumptions
were
made
when
the
vaccines
were
authorized
in
an
emergency
fashion
by
the
fda,
where
we
didn't
know
either-
and
we
said-
but
you
know,
the
preliminary
data
looks
pretty
good.
So
we
issued
that
ability,
because
we
measured
neutralizing
antibody
reactions
to
peoples
to
the
vaccinations
that
were
being
administered.
The
same
technology
is
applied
to
our
natural
immune
systems
that
were
being
administered.
The
same
technology
is
applied
to
our
natural
immune
systems.
Where
someone
has
an
exposure
and
you've
got
adequate
protection.
It
provides
the
same
protection
senator.
F
F
So
probably
the
delta
variant
was
my
booster
shot
for
now.
That's
what
I'm
being
told,
but
again
it
is
so
important
that
we
get
these
vaccinations
because
my
husband,
who
is
in
his
middle
60s,
got
the
two
vaccines
got
the
delta
variant
and
it
was
not
a
mild
case
of
the
delta
variant
for
either
us
or
our
two
grown
sons.
F
My
husband's
pulse
ox
got
low
enough
that
had
it
stayed
where
it
was
for
another
three
hours
we
would
have
been
in
the
emergency
room.
So
please
understand
that
this
vaccine
has
been
studied
longer.
As
senator
carroll
pointed
out,
it's
been
studied
for
a
while,
and
I
plead
with
you
as
a
grandmother
and
a
mother
to
go.
Do
everything
you
can
to
get
vaccinated
to
stay
masked
and
to
listen
to
the
opportunities
to
do
the
things
we
need
to
do
between
now
and
january,
and
then
thereafter.
So
I
thank
you
very
much
doctor.
A
Thank
you
senator
and
really
I'm
glad
you
bring
up.
The
point
like
I
said,
on
the
floor,
medicine
is
not
100,
black
and
white.
That's
why
we
have
second
and
third
opinions
from
other
providers
who
might
give
you
other
opinions
on
things.
People
will
interpret
data,
however,
they
want
to
look
at
it.
A
But
again,
I
think
there's
study
international
studies
that
confirm
the
cdc
has
confirmed
that
natural
infections
probably
provide
you
a
bigger
booster
of
antibodies.
But
again
I
don't
want
people
to
be
fooled.
You
could
have
had
the
infection
and
be
susceptible
to
catch
it
again.
We've
seen
that
happen.
People
that
have
been
vaccinated
can
be
acceptable
to
catch
it
again.
That's
where
they're
going
to
be
recommending,
probably
boosters
for
those
who've
been
vaccinated
in
the
future
to
continue
to
boost
your
immune
systems.
A
B
Yes,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
think
I'm
going
to
reiterate
a
lot
of
what
you
said.
I
love
the
passion
of
senator
dr
berg
for
the
vaccines,
but
I
think
vaccines
in
themselves
are
not
proof
that
you're
sufficiently
protected
and
if
you
take
an
antibody
test,
they
may
show
that-
and
I
think
you've
alluded
to
that
or
just
point
out
stated
it,
and
another
thing
I
want
to
point
out
is
senator
gibbons
talked
about,
is
that
a
positive
test
of
covet
is
not
acceptable.
B
It
is
a
antibody
test
that
you
need,
so
I
like
that
we
are
encouraging
people
that
don't
want
to
get
the
vaccine
to
get
an
antibody
test
that
can
actually
show
where
they're
at
better
than
even
getting
the
vaccine.
So
thank.
A
You
and
to
that
point,
senator
even
just
having
an
antibody,
doesn't
mean
that
you're
necessarily
protected
according
to
this
resolution,
so
people
will
think.
Oh,
I'm
going
to
get
a
finger,
stick
and
have
a
little
line
that
shows
hey.
I've
got
an
antibody.
No,
no,
that's
not
enough,
at
least
not
from
my
resolution.
You've
got
to
have
a
measured
quantifiable
amount
and
you've
got
to
be
kind
of
in
the
top
four
fifths
of
the
population
out
there
of
antibody
levels.
To
say
that
we
consider
you
equal
to
be
vaccinated.
B
A
A
lot
of
us
are
politicians
whether
you
like
it
or
not,
and
dr
berg,
I
know
we
kind
of
probably
as
doctors,
we
that's
kind
of
a
more
noble
title
for
us,
but
nonetheless
it's
it's.
You
know
because
of
that
people
don't
listen
to
us
as
much
they'll.
Try
to
find
a
reason
to
just
you
know,
disparage
one
side
or
the
other.
I
encourage
people
to
go
talk
to
their
doctors.
A
C
I
think
this
would
be
amazing
if
the
science
were
more
solidified
if
we
had
the
data
that
shows
that,
yes,
we
know
that
this
number
of
anab
of
of
antibodies
means
this
and
what
type
of
antibodies
and
what
you
know
I
mean
I
just
I
really
wish
we
would
wait
until
january.
So
I'm
voting
no
now.
Thank
you.
A
B
A
D
A
A
Cass-
and
I
vote
explain
my
vote
also,
if
we,
if
we
waited
for
the
science
to
catch
up,
we
would
have
never
developed
a
vaccines
to
begin
with.
We
still
be
waiting
on
a
vaccination
at
this
point
in
time.
The
final
tally
is
eight
to
two
and
the
resolution
passes
the
favorable
expression
to
the
senate
floor
any
other
matters
for
this
committee.
If
not,
we
stand
adjourned.
Thank
you.