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A
We
appreciate
everyone
being
here
today,
just
a
few
reminders
as
we
get
started.
Please
silence
your
cell
phones
if
you're
interested
in
testifying,
please
sign
up
on
the
sheet
by
the
door,
and
we
will
make
sure
that
that
gets
pulled
into
the
agenda.
If
any
members
are
attending
remotely,
you
will
need
to
be
either
in
the
room.
A
Well,
if
you're
attending
remotely
in
your
office
to
be
eligible
to
vote,
if
you're
off
campus
you'll
be
able
to
attend
and
ask
and
participate
in
the
discussion,
but
you
won't
be
eligible
to
vote
and
we
do
have
one
special
introduction,
but
we'll
do
that
right
after
the
roll.
If
representative
branson
will
be
we're
going
to
introduce
your
guest
in
just
a
moment,
sasha,
please
call
the
roll
representative.
E
B
G
C
C
A
H
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
I
have
my
little
boy
knox.
He
is
with
me
today.
He
came
up
last
night
to
stay
with
me
and
want
to
get
some
committee
meetings
in
this
morning.
My
little
girl's
on
her
way
up,
she's.
A
A
E
A
A
We
also
have
a
committee
amendment
that
we
need
to
adopt
that
should
be
in
your
folder.
Do
we
have
a
motion
on
the
committee
amendment
and
a
second
all,
those
in
favor
say
aye
any
opposed
okay
senate
bill
217,
as
amended
by
committee
sub,
and
the
committee
amendment
is
now
eligible
to
be
presented.
Please
proceed
and
I.
F
Appreciate
all
the
above
in
making
this
work
in
progress,
continuing
to
be
better
and
and
appreciate
the
chair,
a
woman
working
with
me
on
this,
along
with
everybody
else.
That's
here
I
do
have
a
representative
from
the
auditor's
office
if
sarah
beth
gregory,
who
once
again
is
no
stranger
to
either
of
our
chambers,
but
if
sarah
beth
would
come
up
and
join
me
and
then
the
commissioner
storm
is
also
here,
but.
A
A
It
is
the
committee's
protocol
to
ask
any
non-legislators
to
swear
to
tell
the
truth
the
whole
truth
and
nothing
but
the
truth.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Both
please
proceed.
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair
members.
The
fish
and
wildlife
issue
is
very
important
to
me.
I've
worked
on
them
the
majority
of
my
time
here,
both
here
and
elsewhere.
I
grew
up.
My
father
was
a
nine
governor
service
in
fish,
and
wildlife
in
northeast
kentucky
region
worked
closely
with
representative
hale's,
father
and
others,
and
I
grew
up
with
these
issues.
I
grew
up
going
to
commission
meetings.
I
grew
up
hunting
and
fishing
and
I
still
do
I
also
serve
as
the
past
president
and
co-founder
of
the
national
assembly
sportsman's
caucuses.
F
We
work
closely
with
the
congressional
sportsman's
caucus
and
foundation.
I
served
two
terms
as
the
president
and
I
am
still
on
the
executive
council,
so
they're
familiar
with
this
legislation
and
many
of
you
came
to
our
sportsman's
caucus
meeting,
and
I
appreciate
that-
and
I
know
sports
men
and
women
are
not
only
important
to
state
bottom
line.
It's
important
to
our
cultural
heritage.
F
It's
important
representative
fister
knows
the
north.
American
wildlife
model
is
of
the
utmost
import
importance
through
the
nation
and
globally
and
it
sometimes
can
be
under
attack.
So
the
purpose
this
legislation
was
in
response
to
my
good
friend,
ed
massey's
legislation,
and
we
had
a
little
different
view
on
on
how
things
should
go,
and
since
that
time
we've
had
very
productive
meetings
together
and
with
stakeholders
and
and
with
the
auditor's
office,
fish
and
wildlife
department,
as
well
as
the
executive
branch
and
sports
men
and
women
groups.
F
So
we
have
tried
to
to
come
up
with
a
product
that
will
pass
and
protect
fish
and
wildlife's
autonomy
from
other
agencies
outside
influences
and
all
of
those
things,
and
that's
what
I
liked
about
representative
massey's
bill.
So
we
retained
some
of
those
provisions
to
do
that.
We
also
so
it's
administratively
attached
to
tourism
with
more
autonomy
to
operate
within
that
they're
funded
by
sports
men
and
women
dollars,
not
general
fund
dollars.
The
funding
comes
from
the
federal
government
from
taxation
of
sports
men
and
women
pursuits
and
outdoor
activity.
F
So
if
this
is
a
little
different
animal
to
me,
it's
always
been
important
to
maintain
the
autonomy
due
to
the
funding
mechanism
and
due
to
the
mission.
So
that's
the
purpose
of
the
legislation,
and
this
allows
the
department
to
have
flexibility
and
procurement
subject
to
the
terms
of
45a
and
the
government
contract
review
committee
within
our
purview
and
certainly
allows
them
more
flexibility
along
those
lines
and
I'll
defer
to
the
the
the
language
in
there.
On
the
audit
section.
Seven
is
at
the
request
of
the
auditor's
office.
I
Yes,
thank
you
senator
webb,
that's
one
small
change
that
was
made
in
the
committee
substitute
that
was
language
changed
and
modified
at
the
request
of
the
auditor's
office
will
give
us
authority
to
look
at
the
expenditures,
procurements
and
procurement
policies
without
mandating
looking
at
every
single
expenditure,
but
that's
just
part
of
how
the
audit
process
works.
So
we
appreciate
the
senator
and
commissioner
and
everyone
for
working
together
on
this
and
incorporating
the
change.
We
requested
motion
on
the
bill.
H
Thank
you.
Thank
you
to
the
sponsors
of
this
bill.
I
have
a
question
on
how
you
know
many
of
us
on
this
committee
serve
in
the
sportsman's
caucus
and
I've
heard
some
concerns
from
people
in
the
in
the
sportsman's
field
and
industry
and
community,
and
I'm
wondering
if
you
can
speak
to
any
support
you've
heard
from
those
groups.
F
Well,
like
I
said
we
have
a
product
that
protects
the
allows.
The
most
important
thing
to
me
is
the
sports.
Men
and
women
have
a
voice
in
the
selection
of
who's
representing
them.
On
the
commission,
that's
the
number
one
we
retain
that
allowance
for,
and
we
have
our
our
model
is.
The
an
envy
in
the
in
the
nation
are
the
way
we
do
this:
the
sports
men
and
women,
these
true
stakeholders
that
elect
their
commissioners
and
then
for
executive,
gubernatorial
appointment
other
states.
F
A
lot
of
states
are
envious
of
that
model,
and
this
retains
the
allowance
of
the
region
of
the
regional
district
meetings
for
the
sports
men
and
women
to
elect
five
names
to
submit
to
the
governor.
It
retains
the
sportsman's
voice,
it
retains
the
executive
authority
of
appointment
and,
of
course,
we
have
senate
confirmation.
F
So
those
are
the
levels
of
vetting
if
you
will
and
there's
also
term
limits
when
it
comes
to
the
commissioners
that
is
retained
in
the
bill
and
that's
something
we've
dealt
with
for
the
past
few
years.
So
the
there's
been
a
lot
of
message,
some
misinformation
and
there's
some
comparison
of
the
original
bill.
That
was
somewhat
troubling
about
other
agencies
and
entities
and
constitutional
officers,
intervention
that
was
a
concern
of
everyone.
F
F
I
think
there
there's
one
provision
regarding
terms
and
it
does
make
an
anomaly
with
the
commission
as
to
whether
or
not
that
commissioner
once
appointed
by
the
governor
but
yet
to
be
confirmed
by
the
senate,
should
serve,
and
it
would
make
that
in
the
grand
scheme
of
the
state
government
make
it
somewhat
of
an
anomaly.
F
But
there
is
a
limit
on
how
long
that
could
go
on
and
we
came
up
with
not
a
magic
number.
It
was
sort
of
a
compromise
number
of
a
year
felt
like
that,
was
fair
to
allow
the
process
to
work
to
maybe
have
a
denial
and
another
confirmation
and
and
that
sitting
commissioner
prior
to
confirmation
could
serve
until
his
successor
was
appointed
up
to
a
year.
F
E
If
I
could
briefly
respond
as
well,
part
of
the
controversy
in
this
bill
arose
my
initial
filing,
which
was
house
bill
395,
and
that
would
have
changed
the
way
that
the
commissioners
were
selected
entirely
and
that
also
incorporated
the
department
of
agriculture,
and
that
was
what
I
think
triggered
the
firestorm
because
of
the
mix
between
agriculture
and
fish
and
wildlife
has
not
always
been
on
the
the
best
of
terms,
and
it's
not
that
they're
they're.
They
have
different
interests
at
hearts
in
many
ways,
and
that
was
part
of
the
issue
that
arose.
E
What
came
out
of
that
was
that
we
maintained
the
structure
of
appointing
commissioners.
However,
as
indicated,
the
commissioners
would
be
nominated
by
the
sportsman
they'd
be
selected
by
the
governor,
as
has
always
been
the
case.
The
only
difference
is
that
the
terms
would
end
on
the
31st
of
december
each
year
and
then
that
they
would
have
to
be
confirmed
by
the
senate
before
they
actually
set
for
the
position
and
make
decisions
regarding
fish
and
wildlife.
That's
the
only
difference.
F
And
we
put
in
there
january
20th
or
for
the
governor
to
a
point
giving
us
whether
we're
in
short
or
long
session,
the
time
to
either
confirm
or
deny
and
then
a
time
enough
to
go
back
to
that
list
and
let
the
governor
make
another
appointment.
You
know
to
provide
continuity
for
service.
Nobody
wants
those
seats
to
to
see
be
vacant,
but
we
tried
to
do
the
best
we
could
in
preserving
the
model,
preserving
the
concerns
we
had
and
the
process.
Now
that
we
have
sit
at
confirmation.
A
H
Please
follow
left
just
one
more
sure
and
some
of
the
things
you
said.
Another
question
arose
to
me,
which
is:
I
have
some
concern
with
that
one
year
period,
given
the
recent
history
in
the
tone
and
the
tenor
of
the
senate,
not
even
taking
up
appointments
that
the
governor
has
put
forward.
So
do
you
share
that
concern
that
we
could
have
someone
go
through
the
process
get
appointed
the
senate
wouldn't
vote
for
them
would
continue
to
not
vote
for
them
in
in
just
a
year.
We
might
have
a
chance
to
actually
get
anyone
there.
F
Well,
they
would
still
have
a
commissioner
for
a
year
and
but
after
that
it
could
be
vacant.
I
don't,
I
think
that
puts
enough
pressure
on
all
on
everybody
involved
in
the
process
to
do
that,
because
the
sports,
men
and
women
are
a
viable
constituency,
and
I
know-
and
I
think
you
know
if
it
were
up
to
me-
I'd
I'd
like
for
the
senate-
to
confirm
within
a
time
limit
too.
F
I
don't
think
that
bill
would
pass
so,
but
I
think
that's
enough
political
pressure
to
ensure
representation
for
sports
men
and
women
and
maintain
the
model.
D
E
I
I
can
take
a
stab
at
that
representative
donahue.
Part
of
the
reason
that
we
did,
that
is,
is
based
on
the
state.
Fair
board
decision
that
came
out
an
agency
can
be
loosely
attached
to
another
group
and
that's
what
occurred
here.
So
they
still
need
to
be
attached
to
from
a
constitutional
perspective
to
that
agency,
but
this
gives
them
the
ability
to
act
independently.
E
So
in
the
past,
one
of
the
things
that
was
happening
is
that
you
could
have
a
situation
where
the
department
of
fish
and
wildlife,
in
one
case
they
needed
an
attorney
and
the
attorney
for
the
tourism
department
was
conflicted
out.
Even
though
that
the
fish
and
wildlife
were
paying
for
that
attorney.
So
they
had
to
go,
hire
a
separate
attorney
and
they
had
to
seek
authority
and
permission
to
do
that.
So
this
would
allow
them
to
still
be
under
that
agency,
but
act
independently.
It
allows
them
to
seek
procurements
independently.
E
It
allows
them
to
take
care
of
the
day-to-day
operations.
Part
of
the
reason
that
we
have
the
audit
piece
in
there
is
the
concern
that
senator
webb-
and
I
both
had
is,
if
you
give
them
that
independence,
how
will
we
be
able
to
monitor
the
expenditures,
the
the
money
that
goes
out
and
comes
in
without
an
adequate
audit?
So
that's
why
that
audit
piece
was
also
included
in
that's
why
it's
still
attached
under
that
agency,
but
it
makes
it
loosely
attached,
so
they
can
operate
independently.
F
I'll
take
it
one
step
further
use
two
fisma
life
had
their
own
council
there's
strict
criteria
on
the
federal
government
expenditures.
If
you
don't
spend
them
right,
you
can
get
in
big
trouble
and
have
to
pay
them
back
so
that
expertise
can
be
lost
when
another
agency
hires
your
attorneys
or
you
want
the
ability
to
hire
experts.
Like
I
said,
with
the
north
american
model,
I
want
men
and
women
who
support
hunting
and
fishing
trapping
in
our
cultural
heritage
and
I'll.
Take
it
one
step
further.
D
May
have
a
follow-up,
please
sure,
please!
Well,
we
disagree.
Okay,
because
you
talk
about
properties.
You
know.
I
have
issues
all
the
time
say,
for
example
in
louisville
with
the
parks
department,
because
their
vision
is
not
my
vision
and
so
in
these
jobs
we
have
sometimes
make
our
vision.
You
know
their
vision,
but
I
don't
it
kind
of
it's
not
borders
on
the
line,
I
think
of
question
the
integrity
of
the
system
prior
to
what
we
have
right
now
you
know
and
and
I'm
a
big
outdoor
person,
you
know
my
whole
life.
D
I
do
it
all
but
based
on
what's
here,
I
can't
support
this,
but
thank
you
for
bringing
it.
J
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
I
appreciate
senator
webb
your
your
your
passion
for
fish
and
wildlife.
I
don't
know
if
this
is
a
good
or
a
bad
statement,
but
I
probably
know
more
about
this
issue
than
maybe
anybody
in
this
room.
Having
worked
for
this
department
for
30
years,
I've
been
in
on
the
commission,
I've
said
in
commission
meetings.
J
I've
I've
been
to
the
processes.
I
know
how
the
process
works
when
they
elect
the
commission
members.
How
that
process
has
worked
over
the
years
has
been
good.
I
I
like
that
process.
I
think
it's
a
good
process
and
senator
webbs
she's,
absolutely
correct
her
father,
dr
robert
webb,
was
so
instrumental
in
this
department.
J
J
I
I
really
like
the
legislation
that
has
been
brought
here,
one
of
the
one
of
the
I
guess
the
question,
or
I
don't
know
if
it's
a
question
or
comment,
but
if
I
I'll
put
in
a
form
of
a
question,
if
that's
okay,
if
there
is
a
vacancy
on
that
commission
and
then
we
we
are
not
able.
Maybe
you
answer
this,
but
if
if,
for
instance,
we're
not
able
to
fill
that
within
a
year
and-
and
I
I
agree
with
you-
I
think
there
should
be
a
timeline
that
that
should
happen.
J
But
if
that
is
not
the
case,
maybe
we've
had
elections
in
the
district.
Maybe
that
individual
has
not
been
appointed
or
maybe
that
individual
has
not
been
confirmed.
Then
how
long
would
we
do?
You
think
we
should
be
willing
to
wait
or
is
there
any
kind
of
timeline
before
we?
We
move
forward
to
try
to
rectify
that
problem.
F
Well,
you,
the
sitting,
commissioner,
would
sit
for
a
year
and
then
that
seat
would
be
deemed
vacant,
and-
and
I
really
don't
have
the
magic
answer
for
that-
I
just
know
that
we
will
be
back
in
every
january
and
we
can
have
the
ability
to
perhaps
address
that
by
means
of
of
what
we
do
here
in
the
legislature
or
by
the
sportsmen
themselves
and
putting
up
pressure
on
to
do
that.
F
I
I
would
hate
to
think
that
that
would
be
a
problem,
and
I
don't
really
have
the
answer
for
that,
but
this
is,
as
always,
you
know
this
is
a
work
in
progress.
These
little
changes
have
been
made
to
to
maintain
what
we've
got,
and
certainly
I
would
be
amenable
in
the
future
if
anybody's
got
thoughts
on
that,
you
know
it's
the
11th
hour
now.
If
we
had
a
problem,
we'll
be
back
here
in
january
to
address
that
in
every
january
to
we
could
address
that.
E
I
will
add
to
that
that
we
have
committed
senator
webb
and
I
have
committed
to
even
through
the
interim
working
together,
to
continue
to
monitor
this,
to
continue
to
take
ideas
from
the
groups
from
the
different
sportsmans
groups
and
people
that
are
interested
in
this
matter.
And
so
again
at
the
11th
hour.
We're
trying
to
do
what
we
can
to
fix
a
what
we
believe
a
situation
that
needs
to
be
addressed.
J
May
I
thought,
may
I
follow
up
of
course.
Thank
you.
Madam
chair.
Just
have
a
couple
more
comments.
I
I
think
one
of
the
problems
that
we
have
developed
over
the
course
of
the
years
in
this
process
and
we've
tried.
I
know
that
I've
tried-
and
I
know
that
commissioners
prior
to
commissioner
storm
have
tried
to
do
this
as
well-
is
to
basically
keep
the
political
process
out
of
this,
which,
to
be
very
frank,
that
sometimes
is
almost
impossible
to
do.
J
He
wants
that
best,
individual
whomever,
that
is
to
represent
that
that
area
of
the
state-
and
I
know
there
is
there-
is
language
in
this
that
says
you're
not
supposed
to
have
over
a
certain
number
of
this
party
or
that
party,
and
I
don't
even
have
no
clue
what
the
makeup
is
of
that
today.
I
have
no
clue,
don't
even
really
care
about
that.
J
I
just
think
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
get
the
correct
person
there,
regardless
of
their
party
affiliation,
and
I
think
the
administrations
have
looked
at,
not
not
just
the
one
we
have
or
the
one
prior,
the
one
prior
the
one
prior
to
that.
But
that's
been
a
big
problem
in
this
commission
over
the
course
of
the
years
and
senator
webb.
Could
you
just
comment
on
that
a
moment
I'll.
F
Call
in
I'm
proud
to
say
my
dad
was
a
very
active
republican
who
chartered
both
the
young
republican
clubs
at
east
kentucky
and
he
served
mostly
under
democratic
governors.
Yes,
he
did,
and
there
is
a
reason
why
the
congressional
sportsman's
caucus
and
our
national
assembly
sportsman's
caucus
is
not
just
bipartisan.
F
It's
nonpartisan
when
you
go
to
a
meeting
or
talk
about
an
issue
involving
what
we
talk
about,
you
check
it
at
the
door
and
that's
the
way
it's
got
to
be
and
that's
the
way
I
always
say,
there's
certain
areas
that
politics
don't
belong
in.
That's
the
court
system,
the
schools
and
fish
and
wildlife,
because
the
issues
regardless
I
mean
the
issues
are
just
what
they
are
and
they
affect
all
of
us
and
even
the
non-hunters
and
fisher
people
are
impacted.
F
If
you
enjoy
habitat
walking,
if
you
enjoy
kayaking
or
bird
watching,
all
of
those
things
are
paid
for
by
sports
medicine.
So
party,
I
agree
with
representative
hale
and
I
it
is
sometimes
troubling,
because
we
need
people
in
there
who
have
the
best
interest
of
the
agency
and
the
mission
at
heart,
regardless
of
party
or
where
they
come
from.
F
J
J
Perfect
fit,
and
so
we've
we've
allowed
that
to
sneak
into
this
and
we
need
for
somehow
or
another
get
that
out
of
the
equation,
because
we
we
missed
some
really
good
people
that
would
set
on
that
commission
and
I
want
to
just
say
one
other
thing:
fish
and
wildlife
certainly
is
a
great
agency.
I
don't
think
most
people
understand
how
much
this
state
brings
in
economically
with
the
with
the
fishing
and
the
hunting
and
the
deer
hunting
and
the
elk
hunting
and
all
the
other
things.
That's
involved.
J
J
J
But
it's
not
meant
that
way,
regardless
of
who's
setting
in
the
governor's
mansion,
they
need
to
let
fish
and
wildlife
operate
separately,
like
they
have
for
decades
upon
decades
and
not
get
involved
in
the
in
the
process
of
how
that
department
is
run,
because
when
that
happens,
then
we
get
right
back
into
these
situations
that
we're
trying
to
take
care
of
right
here.
So
I
I
would,
I
would
just
admonish
the
administration
and
the
secretary
of
the
cabinet
to
leave
fish
and
wildlife
alone,
because
they
know
what
they're
doing.
K
K
F
The
fact
that
the
commissioners,
the
commissioner
and
all
employees
are
going
to
be
under
the
executive
ethics,
so
we
we've
codified
that
that
as
well
they're
still
subject
to
the
45a
procedures
and
any
you
know
you,
you
have
standing
to
to
challenge
that
if
the
case
would
be-
and
you
also
have
to
have
the
commission,
they
have
their
meetings
and
there's
minutes
and
all
of
those
things
that,
and
we
again
you
know
we,
our
committee
system
can
monitor
as
much
as
they
want
to
and
call
them
in
and
ask
and
and
and
monitor.
F
We
used
to
have
it
more
to
be
honest,
and
you
know
so
we're
they're
accountable
not
only
to
us
but
to
the
ethics
authority
and
and
the
statutes
and
others
and,
like
I
said,
and
we've
talked
about,
you
know
during
the
interim,
if
we're
welcome
to
entertain
a
better
way
of
doing
things
and
if
there's
a
problem
like
I
said,
we'll
be
back
here
in
a
few
months,
so
I
feel
pretty
comfortable
and
as
the
hiring
you
know,
I
want
men
and
women
with
my
sportsman's
dollars
that
have
expertise
and
think
like
me,
and
hiring
it's
important
to
allow
fish
and
wildlife
to
hire
their
own
biologists
and
not
some
pedobiologist
or
somebody
with
a
mission
to
thwart
hunting
or
the
bear
numbers,
or
something
like
that
and
they're
out
there
and
they've
infiltrated
on
the
national
level,
somewhat
the
u.s
fish
and
wildlife
in
other
states.
F
So
we've
got
to
build
a
firewall
around
this
agency
to
protect
the
mission.
If
we're
going
to
maintain
management
of
the
species
participate
in
our
sister
states
programs,
like
the
elk
program,
that
is
in
this
legislation,
we
may
have
the
opportunity
to
purchase
with
the
nature
conservancy.
That
language
is
in
here
as
well
gives
flexibility
for
state
money,
federal
money
on
acquisition
of
a
property
the
tennessee's
already
joined
and
bought
the
bottom
half
of
and
probably
would
buy
the
top.
F
If
we
don't
so,
you
know,
we've
got
that
that
common
mission
to
share
and
on
these
programs,
so
I
really
don't
have
a
problem,
giving
them
hiring
authority.
We
monitor
that
if
they
abuse
it,
we
come
back
and
we
change
it.
But
I
want
that
agency
to
have
the
ability
to
hire
people
consistent
with
the
mission.
It's
very
important
to
me.
G
So
this
is
this
is
government
at
its
best
democrats,
republicans
bipartisan
sports
people
sitting
here
today,
working
together,
and
so
I
just
want
to
thank
each
and
every
person.
That's
that's
worked
on
this
project
and
just
about
all
of
you,
I'm
looking
at
here
today.
I've
had
conversations
with
and
and
thank
you
all
for
your
time.
K
One
follow-up:
yes,
please,
thanks
for
that,
and
I'm
glad
to
see
that
this
portion
about
the
auditor
has
been
added
in
so
my
question
is:
if
the
department
is
still
tied
to
tourism
and
we're
making
decisions
on
it
and
voting
on
it
in
here,
why
have
we?
Why
did
we
leave
that?
The
written
report
will
go
to
the
interim
joint
committee
on
natural
resources
instead
of
tourism?
Well,.
F
We
that's
our
the
senate
committee
of
jurisdiction,
so
there's
no
prohibition
from
the
chairman
getting
I'm
sure
that
the
chairman
smith
will
work
with
with
her
along
those
lines.
We
have
different
designations
in
the
senate,
for
committees
of
jurisdiction
and
I
wouldn't
say
that
was
just
a
drafting
thing
or
what
we're
familiar
with,
and
I
would
apologize
for
that.
But
I
want
this
committee
to
maintain
jurisdiction
and.
H
Thank
you,
madam
chair
senator
webb.
I
appreciate
your
passion
for
the
outdoors
and
thank
you
for
your
work
on
this
with
representative
massey.
I
I
have
one
question
common
concern
on
page
eight,
where
it
talks
about
commission
members
and
it
says
in
there
it
says,
have
held
hunting
and
fishing
license
in
kentucky
or
another
state
for
at
least
the
previous
five
consecutive
years.
H
My
concern
is
that
with
having
the
and
in
there
and
having
having
had
to
have
both
of
those
for
a
period
of
five
years,
if
you
might
miss
out
on
some
really
well
qualified
people
who
are
avid
outdoorsmen,
you
may
have
one
who
person
who's
a
an
avid
hunter,
but
doesn't
fish
that
much
or
an
avid
fisherman
who
doesn't
hunt
that
much.
Could
you
please
speak
to
that,
and-
and
let
me
know
was-
is
that
a
valid
concern.
F
I
don't
think
that
would
preclude
if
you
just
had
one
and
not
a
sportsman's
license
or
something
like
that.
I
don't
that
wouldn't
preclude
service
and
I
will
go
on
and
add
to
your
question
a
little
bit
and
say:
if
you're
exempted,
you
would
qualify
as
well,
because
I
didn't
want
to
exclude
an
individual,
let's
say
who
might
be
sick
a
year
who
hunts
on
their
own
property
and
might
not
have
bought
a
license
gear.
You
know
we
have
exemptions,
so
I
didn't
want
to.
F
You
know
that
person
might
get
a
conservation
management
award
and
I'd
have
bought
a
hunting
license.
So
you
you
because
they
were
excluded.
So
we
did
allow
that
accommodation,
but
I
don't
think
just
having
one
of
those
license
would
preclude
anybody.
L
The
senate
has
confirmed
only
one
of
this
governor's
appointees
and
that
was
josh,
lillard,
rob
lear
and
brian
mackey,
both
of
whom
have
a
lot
of
support
from
sports
men
and
women
have
not
been
confirmed,
and
this
governor
appointed
the
first
ever
sportsman's
liaison
to
the
governor
to
show
his
support
for
sports
men
and
women.
I
just
wanted
to
get
that
on
the
record.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
A
J
J
They
are
commission
members
that
are
appointed
by
the
governor
and
those
people
hire
this
gentleman
right
here
and
their
their
job
is
to
hire
the
commissioner
and
replace
the
commissioner
if
they
they
deem
necessary.
So
it
is
a
very,
very
important
role
that
we
need
to
make
sure
that
people
in
our
districts
are
involved
in
making
that
selection
and
then
those
appointments
going
on
to
the
governor
and
the
governor,
making
that
selection
and
then
to
the
senate.
So
they
have
a
very
crucial
role:
they
they
basically
don't
set
fish
and
wildlife
protocol.
J
They
they
have
input
into
it,
but
their
their
main
focus
is
to
hire
whomever
that
commissioner,
is
and
to
dismiss
that
person.
So
they
have
a
a
great
role
into
representative
stevenson's
remarks.
Representative
stevens
and
I
did
make
those
remarks-
I
think
fish
and
wildlife
has
got
some
repairs
still
to
make
today,
but
I
think
that
we're
on
the
right
track.
I
believe
we're
going
down
the
right
track
and
I
think
senator
webb
this
bill
is
not
do
I
like
everything
and
is
in
this.
No
I've
never
seen
a
bill.
J
F
You
chairman,
may
I
follow
up
on
that.
It's
also
a
non-paying
position,
so
you've
got
people
who
are
very
passionate
about
the
fish
and
wildlife
that
come
down
here
for
meetings
and
they're
on
24
7.
They
take
the
the
calls
about
the
orphan
deer
and
the
possums
in
the
road
and
all
that
stuff.
Believe
me,
my
mom
can
tell
you
that
if
she
were
here,
I
can
testify
for
her.
It's
a
a
very
you
know
and
they
mitigate
mediate
things
between
species
of
fishermen
and
me
and
crossbow
versus
traditional
archery.
F
F
They
need
to
get
out
and
go
back
to
the
fish
and
game
clubs
be
communicative
with
their
constituency
because
they
have
one
and
if
they
want
to
run
again,
get
reelected
and
get
your
votes
and
and
be
be
accountable
to
your
constituency.
Just
like
we
do
so.
That's
my
kind
of
tirade
for
what
commissioners
should
do.
C
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
your
work
on
this.
I'm
not
going
to
sit
here
and
go
through
my
resume,
but
I
got
started
with
the
sportsman's
clubs
and
stuff
in
1982.
C
A
A
I
A
Excellent,
it's
a
very
busy
time,
as
I
say
in
the
short
rows
of
the
session,
so
we've
got
a
lot
going
on.
We
certainly
appreciate
your
busy
schedule,
mr
larry
richards.
If
you
will
please
come
to
the
table
and
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
your
affiliation,
what
you're,
representing
or
organization
and
then
we
will
administer
the
oath
you'll
need
to
be
a
little
closer
to
the
mic,
make
sure
the
green
light
is
lit.
A
M
M
Madam
chair
and
and
the
committee
first
I'd
like
to
thank
senator
webb
and
representative
massey.
They
sat
down
with
us
on
the
4th
of
march
and
we
tried
to
work
through
some
of
the
issues
we
had
with
this
bill,
and
I
think
we
got
some
improvements
to
it.
M
Our
membership
and
our
organizations
remain
concerned
about
some
of
the
language.
That's
in
the
bill
before
you-
and
this
is
before
I
haven't-
had
a
chance
to
read
your
sub
one
this
morning.
This
bill,
in
its
current
form,
removes
universal
and
accepted
standards
of
government
oversight
potentially
violates
the
kentucky.
Constitution,
interferes
with
the
appointment
terms,
length
and
service
of
commission
members.
M
This
bill
threatens
kentucky
sportsmen
and
women's
statutory
right
in
the
selection
of
their
commission
members
and
thus
our
involvement
to
ensure
proper
management
and
oversight
of
the
department.
90
of
the
department's
budget
comes
from
licenses
sales
by
kentucky
sportsmen
and
women,
and
our
system
was
created
by
them
to
ensure
that
both
managerial
and
financial
control
of
the
state's
wildlife
resources
remained
out
of
political
control.
M
M
M
M
Restructuring
the
commission's
appointment
process
violates
the
kentucky
constitution
and
denies
kentucky's
sportsmen
and
women
representation
on
the
con
commission.
These
bills
would
qualifying
appointee
to
the
commission
as
held
hunting
and
fishing
license
in
any
state
for
the
previous
years.
This
allows
appointment
of
an
individual
who
has
not
invested
in
the
kentucky
department
of
fish
and
wildlife.
M
The
it
allows
a
commission
member
to
serve
one
term
after
the
end
of
their
term.
This
provision
alone
violates
section
28,
separation
of
powers,
76,
the
executive
appointment
power
and
93
interior
inferior
officers,
the
commission
of
kentucky
constitution.
One
branch
of
government
cannot
exercise
the
power
of
another.
The
executive
branch
holds
the
sole
appointment
authority
of
these
commission
members.
Commission
terms
are
limited
to
four
years
ending
when
their
successor
has
been
appointed.
M
Kentucky
sportsmen
and
women's
rights
have
candidates
chosen
through
a
valid
election
should
not
be
impeded,
requiring
a
commission
seat
to
be
vacated
for
one
year
after
their
end
of
their
term.
If
a
successor
has
not
been
confirmed
and
remain
vacant
until
confirmation
of
the
next
one
cleanly
violates
2876
and
93
of
the
state
constitution.
M
J
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Thank
you,
sir.
Yes,
sir,
you,
you
made
a
comment
there
and
I'm
not
sure
if
I
exactly
understand
or
where
you're
coming
from
on
that
comment,
you
you
made
a
comment
that
your
members
do
not
have
a
process
in
the
choice
of
the
commission
members:
how
how
do
you?
J
J
Wells
man,
yes,
please
I'm
I'm
not
sure.
I
I
heard
you
make
that
statement,
but
I
I
did
believe
that
you
als.
I
do
believe.
You
also
said
that
there
was
they
were
not
involved
in
the
process.
So
how?
How
is
that
how's
that
possible?
Anybody
that
has
a
license
in
this
state
can
participate
in
that
process.
M
J
C
I
I
actually
heard
it
the
same
way
and
I
also
take
exception
with
the
fact
of
people
that
are
license
exempt.
You
know
I've
I've
hunted
and
fished,
my
entire
life
and
I've
bought
a
license,
but
I
now
am
a
landowner
and
I
don't
have
the
time
to
travel
and
do
what
I
used
to
do.
So
I
hunt
at
home
doesn't
mean
that
I
haven't
paid
those
dues
or
I
don't
know
anything
about
wildlife
or
or
couldn't
be
a
decent
commission
member.
C
If,
if
I
was
chosen
to
do
that,
I
think
that's
very,
very
important
to
have
that
in
this
bill,
because
we
don't
want
to
exclude
people
that
may
be
beneficial
to
our
department.
M
And
exclusion
is
not
the
intent,
but,
as
you
said,
you
bought
a
license
for
a
number
of
years.
You
had
invested
in
the
system
and
again
this
is
one
of
those
things
I
think
we
could
all
sit
down
at
the
table
with
and
craft
a
much
better
language
for
a
bill
that
includes
those
or
or
gets
to
the
bottom
of
it,
and
that's
why
I
think
this
bill
should
be
parser.
We
haven't
got,
we
haven't,
got
a
we've
got
a
fair
bill.
M
M
C
I
would
just
like
to
make
a
comment
about
the
senator
webb
and
representative
massey
for
the
work
they've
done
on
this
bill,
and
I
also
want
to
give
a
shout
out
to
our
commissioner
rich
storm,
not
just
being
active
in
my
district,
but
throughout
the
state.
He's
done
a
tremendous
job,
and
I
just
want
to
thank
him.
Thank
you.
F
Of
you
know
how
we
lawyers
are
we
rebut
things,
but
anyway,
I
want
to
give
the
committee
some
assurance-
and
chris
is
smiling-
he's
heard
me
rebut
things
before
in
our
prior
lives.
F
Certainly
the
provision
that
was
specified
as
to
individuals
eligible
to
serve
there's
vetting
processes
that
we
did
not
disturb
and
that
if
an
individual
comes
forth
and
expresses
a
desire
to
run
for
the
commission,
they
have
to
go
through
the
sportsman's
election
process,
the
sportsmen
and
women.
I
trust
to
to
vet
those
individuals
like
they
have
for
many
years.
F
Then,
if
they
are
successful,
they
go
to
the
executive
boards
and
commission's
vetting
process,
so
they're
vetted
there
then.
Thirdly,
they
come
to
the
senate
for
confirmation,
so
there's
three
alternatives
for
vetting,
anyone
that
might
have
retired
and
come
back
to
kentucky
or
or
or
be
a
licensed
exempt
or
whatever
that
may
not
meet
the
ideal.
You
know
in
some
people's
minds
criteria
who
should
serve
but
there's
three
three
betting
levels.
So
I
wanted
to
tell
the
the
committee
that
I
wasn't
for
term
limits,
but
we've
got
them.
F
I
think
I
gave
a
floor
speech
against
them
because
you
lose
a
lot
of
institutional
knowledge
and
their.
You
know
the
commissioners
were
just
like
us.
We
have
a
term,
then
it's
up
to
us
to
get
elected
again,
but
I
wasn't
for
that.
But
we've
got
them
so
we're
going
to
live
with
them
and
no
one's
going
to
serve
another
term.
The
original
bill
language
did
not
allow
that
to
the
word.
Partial
was
my
original
draft
so
but
we
scaled
it
back
and
put
a
time
limit
on
it
for
a
year.
F
We
thought
that
was
a
reasonable
compromise.
After
meeting
with
individuals
and
hearing
those
same
concerns,
I
it
is
not
my
goal.
I've
been
here
a
long
time,
practicing
law
longer
to
be
do
anything
unconstitutional,
I'm
jealously
protective
of
my
constitution,
both
the
united
states
and
kentucky.
But
you
know
there
are
disagreements
on
interpretation.
F
I
don't
agree
with
that
interpretation.
I
think
we.
We
have
term
limits
and
confirmation,
so
the
senate
has
already
we've
already
micromanaged
the
legislature,
give
it
the
legislature
take
it
away.
So
we
have
authority
as
long.
You
know,
within
certain
bounds.
I
think
this
bill
passes
that
muster
and
I
appreciate
the
committee's
indulgence.
A
H
B
D
Thank
you.
I
just
want
to
make
it
a
matter
of
public
record.
I
have
privately
and
I'll
say
it
publicly
support
commissioner
storm,
I
think,
he's
a
good
man.
I
think
he
does
a
great
job.
That's
not
the
issue
here
today.
Okay,
you
know
there
has
to
be
a
cohesiveness
between
departments
and
when
we
become
a
separate
entity.
I
I
have
issues
I
I
said
earlier
about
when
in
louisville,
when
I
deal
with
the
parks
department,
sometimes
their
ideas
on
our
ideas,
but
the
state
of
kentucky
it's
the
state
of
kentucky.
D
We
have
to
work
collectively
together
and
on
the
on
reference.
You
know
the
state
was
made
earlier
about
political.
You
have
to
ask
yourself,
you
know:
the
senate
has
concerned
hasn't
confirmed
the
vacancies
they
have
on
the
commission,
but
we
want
to
entrust
them
in
the
future
to
make
a
quick
confirmation
in
the
future.
So
we
just
I
respect
everyone
in
this
room.
We
just
disagree,
so
I
vote
no.
Thank
you.
C
D
N
L
H
K
May
explain
my
vote
briefly.
Yes
ma'am.
You
know
there
was
a
lot
of
talk
today
about
being
accountable
to
our
constituents
and
too
many
of
mine
have
said
that
the
they
still
have
a
lot
of
concerns
with
these
bills,
and
so
I
feel
like
I
would
not
be
doing
my
job
here.
Unless
I
voted
no
today,
I
will
reserve
the
right
to
vote
otherwise
on
the
floor.
If
I,
if
I
hear
from
them
and
the
changes
that
happen
in
the
sub
are
amenable,
but
for
today
my
vote
said
no.
O
Explain
my
vote.
Please,
yes,
ma'am!
Thank
you.
I
am
a
no
vote
along
the
lines
of
representative
stevenson,
and
this
was
a
very.
This
is
a
very
difficult
vote
for
me,
because
I
have
tremendous
respect
for
the
representatives
such
as
mr
massey
and
hale
and
senator
webb.
I
know
you're
very
knowledgeable
about
this
topic,
but
just
as
representative
stevenson,
you
know
we
talk
about
being
accountable
to
our
constituents,
and
this
is
a
very
it
was
said
earlier.
O
This
is
a
very
viable
group
of
of
a
constituency,
especially
in
my
neck
of
the
woods,
especially
as
someone
who
is
at
one
time
had
the
biggest
buck
on
the
wall
and
and
whose
brother's
bird
dog
gets
a
stocking
every
christmas
and
is
considered
a
part
of
the
family.
But
but
I
have
received
concerns
and
emails
can
steal
from
my
constituents.
O
They
were
basically
up
in
arms
with
the
first
bill
that
was
filed.
As
you
know,
senator,
and
so
I
would
like
to
you
know,
reach
back
out
to
them,
but
for
today
I'm
definitely
a
no
thank
you.
N
Briefly,
explain
my
vote.
Yes,
please.
Thank
you,
chairwoman.
I
had
some
concerns
about
the
fiscal
transparency
piece
with
the
addition
of
the
auditor's
office
that
completely
relieved
that
this
bill
has
gone
through
quite
a
process,
and
I
believe
that,
just
by
the
nature
of
the
department
that
there
are
enough
eyes
watching
that
the
transparency
transparency
piece
is
for
me
is
taken
care
of
completely
thank
you
for
bringing
this
forward.
I
mean
yes,.
G
G
A
A
The
vote
was
15
to
5,
so
we
are
passing
to
this
point.
We
want
to
make
sure
we
do
our
parliamentary
procedure
exactly
right.
I
now
need
a
motion
to
roll
the
committee
amendment
into
the
committee
substitute
and
a
second
and
we'll
pass
that
portion
with
a
voice
vote
all
in
favor,
please
say
aye
any
opposed.
A
A
F
F
I
I
know
their
heart's
in
the
right
place.
Sci
is
one
of
our
national
sponsors.
I
work
closely
with
sci
a
former
member
of
the
dallas
sci,
so
I
just
want
to
thank
them
for
their
input
and
urge
continued
communication,
because
that's
always
a
good
thing,
but
I
I
thank
you,
madam
chair,
for
your
work
and
your
time.
I
know
it's
valuable.
All
of
you
all.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.