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From YouTube: Senate Standing Committee on Natural Resources and Energy (2-22-23) - UPON ADJ OF SENATE
Description
Meeting Start 00:00
Roll Call 00:46
SJR 79 Discussion 01:28
SJR 79 Roll Call Vote 07:42
SB 4 Discussion 10:14
SB 4 Roll Call Vote 46:55
A
A
We
welcome
each
of
you
to
come
to
the
natural
resource
meeting
I
apologize
for
having
to
have
it
later
in
the
day,
and
that
was
to
accommodate
me.
I've,
been
out
with
some
surgery
and
I
appreciate
each
and
every
member
that
stayed
after
when
I
know
you
had
stuff
to
do,
and
it
kind
of
shows
you
what
a
wonderful
group
of
people
that
we
truly
serve
with.
So
thanks
to
all
my
colleagues,
if
we
could,
at
this
time,
I'm
going
to
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
roll.
A
With
liberty
and
justice
for
all
all
right,
well,
let's
get
into
this
I
think
we're
gonna
go.
Where
is
my
yeah?
Let's
do
sjr
first!
So
if
you
want
to
go
ahead
and
come
to
the
table,
yeah
I
see
Senator
Carroll
Senator
Carroll.
Do
you
have
anybody
coming
with
you
we're
just
going
to
present
this
yourself.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
present
this
joint
resolution.
Today.
You
all
are
well
aware.
A
few
years
ago
we
lifted
the
nuclear
moratorium
in
the
Commonwealth
and
since
then
not
a
lot
was
said
or
done
in
the
area
of
nuclear
energy
within
our
state.
Over
recent
years
we
have
seen
the
interest
in
nuclear
energy
explode
not
throughout
just
throughout
this
country,
but
throughout
the
world,
and
a
lot
of
new
technologies
are
out
there.
In
Wyoming
Bill
Gates
company
Terra
power
is
building
a
Sodium.
C
Reactor
TVA
is
working
on
a
small
modular
reactor
right
now
there
are
eight
at
least
eight
states
in
line
hoping
to
to
attract
a
commercial
reactor.
Virginia
has
made
a
pledge
that
they're
going
to
be
the
first
in
the
country
to
have
the
first
commercial
small
module
reactor
Tennessee,
announced
I
think
last
week
or
the
week
before
a
50
million
dollar
investment.
C
Over
recent
months
we
have
communicated
with
Virginia
on
a
couple
of
occasions
to
to
get
some
advice
from
them
on
on
how
we
should
proceed,
and
you
know
Virginia
their
governor
is
committed.
They
have
passed
bills,
their
their
desires
to
be
the
leader
in
nuclear
energy,
as
we
started
looking
at
where
we
wanted
to
be
in
the
future
and
how
we
needed
to
get
there.
What
steps
we
needed
to
take.
We
first
thought
that
we
wanted
to
do
legislation
to
establish
a
nuclear
commission
within
the
Commonwealth.
C
C
You
all
are
very
well
aware
that
at
the
doe
site
in
Paducah,
there
are
thousands
of
containers
there
left
over
from
the
process
of
enrichment
that
the
plant
used
to
used
to
conduct
there.
You
know
the
those
processes
have
been
shut
down
and
you've
heard
me
say
this
before
Bill
Gates,
the
owner
of
Terra
power,
says
that
there
is
enough
fuel
there
to
fuel
this
country
for
several
hundred
years
with
the
nearest
technologies
that
are
coming
out.
Global
laser
enrichment
is
a
company.
That's
looking
at
coming
into
Paducah
their
goal.
C
C
It
sets
the
membership,
which
is
has
government
officials,
energy
officials
and
experts
in
nuclear
energy
and
we'll
probably
have
a
floor
amendment
that
will
add
a
couple
groups,
one
of
those
being
the
nuclear
energy
Institute
and
then
a
couple
folks
from
the
co-ops
who
who
would
be
more
specialized
in
this
area,
and
we
would
this
group
will
work
through
the
summer.
This
will
be
established
under
the
executive
branch.
C
Kenya
stump,
who
is
over
the
office
of
energy
policy,
will
chair
this
committee
and
we
hope
to
come
up
with
a
plan
so
next
session
we
will
have
legislation
that
will
establish
a
nuclear
Commission
in
the
Commonwealth,
and
this
group
will
be
responsible
for
planning
the
future.
Educating
the
state
be
a
Clearinghouse
for
all
the
data,
the
research
that
we
need
and
just
further
the
efforts
when,
when
I'm
gone,
when
all
of
you
are
gone
from
this
body,
there
will
be
an
entity
that
will
continue
to
push
nuclear
in
the
Commonwealth.
C
You
all
know
the
Technologies,
you
know
it's
the
way
of
the
future
with
all
the
new
technologies
it's
much
safer
than
it
has
been
in
the
past,
and
it
is
a
reliable
source
of
Base
load
energy.
If
we
do
not
move
on
this
soon
and
if
we
don't
aggressively
move
on
this
folks,
we're
going
to
fall
behind
and
we're
going
to
pay
the
price
for
this
in
the
future.
C
As
I've
said
repeatedly,
everybody
wants
coal
to
be
a
base
load
source
of
energy
in
our
Commonwealth,
for
as
long
as
we
can,
but
the
reality
of
it
is
it's
declining
and
we
need
to
be
prepared
for
the
Next
Generation.
So
we
are
not
left
behind
and
being
able
to
provide
efficient
energy,
but
good
base
load
energy
at
a
at
a
fair,
reasonable
price
and
be
able
to
do
it
safely.
So
we
need
to
get
started
on
that
endeavor
now.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman.
A
A
C
Senator
Mr
chairman
one
other
thing,
I'd
like
to
add,
and
there
will
be
more
information
coming
out
on
this
May
17th
through
May
19th
in
Paducah.
There
will
be
a
nuclear
development.
Forum
topics
will
be
transitioning
coal
to
nuclear,
which
there
are
many
coal
plants
in
Kentucky
that
have
been
determined
to
be
suitable
for
transition
to
nuclear
power
plants,
understanding
the
resources
available,
Workforce
training
and
retraining,
incorporating
reuse
of
existing
facilities
for
nuclear
projects,
industrialization
and
opportunities
so
covering
a
wide
gamut
of
nuclear
issues.
A
You're,
welcome
and
I
just
want
to
make
one
thing:
I
I,
don't
necessarily
agree
with
the
concept
of
petitioning,
because
I've
seen
a
lot
of
applications
where
coal
and
nuclear
work
in
Tandem
and
we've
seen
the
supplies.
I
think
that
the
future
of
it
is
not
one
against
the
other
I
mean
obviously
I'm
I'm
from
the
coal
fields
and
I've
always
been
very
proud
of
that.
But
I
I
see
technology
that
has
been
able
to
merge
both
of
these
and
now
at
the
beginning
of
being
able
to
recharge.
A
The
rods
has
kind
of
really
reawakened
nuclear
to
people
that
have
not
warmed
up
to
it
and
I
I
think
I
communicated
with
you
this
summer
when
I
was
with
Lindsey
Graham.
Who
was
really
pushing
that
if
your
state
doesn't
have
this
in
its
mix,
then
you're
not
going
to
get
caught
up
and
I.
Think
I
may
have
even
sent
you
a
couple
of
those
articles
that
he
had
so
I.
A
C
C
A
You
all
right,
let's
keep
moving
at
this
time,
I'm
going
to
ask
Senator
Mills
to
come
down
to
the
table.
We
have
a
couple
of
people
that
have
signed
up
to
speak
as
well.
Senator
Mills.
Do
you
have
any
guests
that
you
want
to
have
come
to
the
table
with
you,
okay,
very
good,
then
we
will
turn
it
over
to
you.
D
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
Robbie
Mills,
senator
from
the
fourth
Senate
District
in
Northwest
Kentucky,
appreciate
you
hearing
Centerville
4
Senate
before
is
all
about
protecting
our
national
power
grid
and
acting
now
to
stop
the
electrical
liability
crisis.
Reliability
crisis
that
is
approaching
faster
than
most
people
want
to
admit.
D
Coal
powered
electric
generation
plants
have
been
the
foundation
of
our
electric
grid
and
will
need
to
be
that
for
the
foreseeable
future,
because
coal
is
reliable,
resilient,
affordable
and
provides
energy
security
for
our
state
and
our
nation.
We
all
know
and
understand
the
nation's
power
grid
is
changing,
but
this
change
must
take
place
gradually
to
avoid
jeopardizing
the
reliability
of
our
grid.
A
D
Carries
I'll
turn
it
back
over
to
you.
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
so
300
power
plants
have
closed
in
the
last
14
years.
That's
a
40
reduction
and
that's
really
terrible
news
for
us,
but
it's
really
drastic
news.
When
you
consider
what's
going
to
happen
over
the
next
two
years,
we're
going
to
lose
27
megawatts
of
coal
generation
in
24,
States
and
I'm.
Sorry,
I
misspoke,
that's
over
the
next
five
years,
but
in
the
next
two
years
in
in
in
Kentucky
I'm,
sorry
I've
got
that
backwards.
D
In
the
last
in
the
next
five
years,
we're
going
to
lose
27
megawatts
in
24
states
in
the
next
five
years
in
Kentucky
we're
going
to
lose
2000
megawatts.
The
point
I'm
making
here
is
that
we've
had
tons
of
coal
plants
shut
down.
The
likelihood
of
more
shutdowns
coming
is
very
high,
very
very
high.
Unless
we
do
something
the
Federal
Energy
regulation
commission
has
begun
to
ring
the
bell
and
issue
clear
warnings
against
further
cold
capacity
retirements.
D
There
are
warnings
Point
directly
to
the
nation's
utility,
switching
too
rapidly
from
base
load
power
plants
to
intermittent
Renewables.
In
other
words,
we're
shutting
down.
We
are
shutting
down
too
many
reliable
coal
burning
plants
too
fast
and
replacing
them
with
power
sources
that
fail
to
meet
the
many
advantages
that
the
former
base
load
Source
offered.
D
Senate
Bill
4
is
designed
to
ring
the
bell
in
Kentucky
and
hopefully
in
the
nation,
and
to
serve
as
our
initial
action
to
address
the
coming
reliability
crisis
in
electric
generation.
Senate
Bill
4
gives
the
Public
Service
Commission
the
authority
to
approve
or
deny
the
retirement
of
an
electric
generation
unit
owned
by
a
utility.
E
D
Or
Associated
costs
about
recovery
or
Associated
recovery
cost.
It
simply
ensures
that
our
grid
reliability
is
being
considered
in
the
decision-making
process
by
a
fair,
neutral,
Commission
I
believe
Senate
Bill
4
will
help
bring
a
balance
to
Future
retirement
decisions
and
properly
weigh
reliability
and
economics
in
the
decision-making
process.
D
D
Those
are
some
staggering
numbers
now
what's
been
going
on
in
those
two
years,
we've
had
power,
supplied
debates
and
we've
closed
down
power
plants.
We've
switched
power
sources.
Those
are
important,
important
things
to
look
at,
and
you
know
this
is
a
this
is
I
know
this
is
a
broad,
ranging
issue,
but
we
need
to.
We
need
to
discuss
the
reliability
issue
and
that's
what
Senate
Bill
4
is
all
about
is
making
sure
that
our
state
doesn't
end
up
with
issues
that
happen
over
Christmas
consistently.
D
You
know:
we've
always
bragged
in
Kentucky
that
we
have
ample
supply
of
power
inexpensive
power.
That's
why
big
industrial
complexes
have
located
in
Kentucky
I'm,
not
too
sure
with
those
statistics
that
we
can
continue
to
say
that,
and
it
concerns
me
and
that's
why
I've
brought
Senate
Bill
4..
We
have
listened
to
utilities
and
all
those
involved
we've
taken
an
input
and
I'm
sure
there's
some
behind
me
that
don't
like
what
we've
chosen
to
include
in
the
bill.
D
But
we've
got
to
come
to
a
conclusion
in
Kentucky
how
we
can
continue
to
be
competitive
and
Grandma
and
Grandpa
can
know
that
their
medical
device
has
power
and
that
they're
going
to
have
consistent
power
and
they're
going
to
stay
warm
and
not
have
to
take
their
whole
retirement
check
for
that.
So
Mr,
chairman
I,
think
I'll
leave
my
comments
at
that
and
see.
If
there's
any
questions
from
from
the
committee.
A
Okay,
Senator
Mills.
Thank
you
for
for
your
presentation
on
your
bill.
We
have
no
questions,
but
we
have
a
couple.
People
signed
up
to
speak,
I,
think
Kent
Blake.
If
you
want
to
come
up
to
the
table
and
Rocco
and
I'm
gonna
do
a
terrible
job.
Rocco
was
your
name
when.
Why
don't
you
say
it
and
save
me
the
embarrassment
of
messing
up
such
a
beautiful
name.
Thank.
A
G
That
thank
you
and
I
I
want
to
thank
everyone
for
your
time
today
and
for
allowing
me
the
opportunity
to
comment
on
Senate
Bill
4.,
particularly
at
this
late
hour
and
chairman
Smith,
with
the
the
efforts
you
took
to
actually
get
here
I.
We
really
appreciate
that.
We
also
really
sincerely
appreciate
the
intent
behind
the
bill.
Providing
safe,
reliable
service
is
at
the
core
of
what
we
do.
It
is
what
we
do
as
a
company
and
and
so
we
truly
appreciate
the
intent
of
the
bill.
G
First
there's
no
reference
in
the
bill
to
affordability
or
the
long-standing
principle
within
Kentucky
Utility
regulation
of
lease
cost
planning
under
lease
cost
planning.
A
utility
considers
multiple
combinations
of
energy
Supply
to
meet
customer
demand,
reliably
and
among
those
reliable
Alternatives.
They
then
choose
the
portfolio
that
is
represents
the
least
cost
to
their
customers,
and
if
the
Public
Service
Commission
agrees,
they
approve
any
changes
that
we
want
to
make
additions.
G
The
likely
result
is
higher
rates
that
put
economic
development
in
the
state
at
risk.
I
agree
with
many
of
the
things
Mr
Mills
said
about
our
generation
in
the
state
and
coal-fired
generation.
Specifically,
we
all
know
that
low
cost-based
rates
is
a
major
reason
that
Kentucky
is
a
home
to
large
energy-intensive
manufacturing
operations
and
is
continuing
to
attract
investment.
G
We
are
also,
though,
unsure
what
Senate,
Bill
4
actually
does
to
enhance
reliability
in
the
state.
The
Kentucky
Public
Service
Commission
under
krs-278,
already
has
broad
powers
of
authority
to
address
both
rates
and
service
of
utilities,
from
examinations
to
audits,
to
investigations
of
any
practice
or
act
affecting
or
related
to
service.
G
In
addition,
the
the
presumption
that
existing
fossil
fuel
generation
should
not
be
retired
could
lead
to
older,
less
efficient
infrastructure
remaining
in
place
to
serve
customers
at
some
point.
That
infrastructure
is
no
longer
cost
effective
for
customers
or
as
reliable,
and
it's
basically
time
to
trade
it
in
for
a
newer
model.
G
That's
not
a
decision
that
we
take
lightly
at
elginia
and
KU.
Alginine
KU
are
among
the
best
operators
in
the
country
of
coal-fired
generation,
both
from
a
reliability
standpoint
as
well
as
a
cost
standpoint.
So
it's
a
competitive
Advantage
for
our
utility
and
with
constructive
cost
recovery
mechanism
in
the
state.
Like
the
environmental
cost
recovery
mechanism,
You
could
argue
that
we
have
every
incentive
in
the
world
to
keep
coal-fired
generation
open
as
long
as
it's
reasonably
possible.
G
So
when
we
actually
bring
forward
the
few
times
that
we
have
to
date,
we've
got
a
current
case
that
deals
with
2027
and
2028
and
three
units
specifically,
but
when
we
bring
a
case
forward
that
says
now
is
the
time
to
retire
a
given
coal-fired
unit.
You
can
believe
that
now
is
the
time.
That's
what
our
very
extensive
analysis
would
show.
Some
people
will
take
objection
to
that.
That's
why
we
have
long
extensive
proceedings
before
we
can
put
those
Replacements
in
service.
G
Having
said
that,
legislation
needs
to
leave
open
the
possibility
that
Technologies
could
evolve
and
costs
could
Trend
in
a
way
that
favors
Alternatives
at
some
point
in
the
future.
So,
in
summary,
I'm
trying
to
be
brief
here.
In
summary,
we
understand
the
committee
has
some
concerns
about
the
pace
and
nature
of
what
some
refer
to
as
an
energy
transition
in
this
country.
G
We
would
ask
you
to
consider
instead
convening
a
broad
stakeholder
group
that
deals
with
these
matters
regularly
in
an
attempt
to
determine
how
we
might
best
address
both
reliability
and
affordability
for
the
long
term.
Those
are
my
comments.
I
can
either
take
questions
or
I
can
let
Mr
diocenzo
make
comments.
G
D
A
Know
there's
the
federal
government
has
set
at
the
table
with
a
lot
of
incentives.
They've
got
a
lot
of,
let's
call
it
Aid
available
for
you.
If
you'll
burn
anything
else
other
than
coal
I
mean
they're
they're,
laying
it
on
the
table
and
you
guys
are
taking
a
seat
at
that
table
and
you're
foolish
not
to.
We
understand
the
business
model
that
they're
going
to
collect
these
fees
and
they're
going
to
punish
the
people
that
are
still
using
fossil
fuels
because
that's
where
their
Federal
model
goes,
whether
it's
right
or
wrong.
A
It
doesn't
matter
who
the
end
user
is
whether
that's
a
a
family
outside
of
Atlanta
Georgia,
as
we
know,
is
heavily
impacted
or
a
family
in
Eastern
Kentucky
who
just
went
almost
two
weeks
without
power
there.
That's
really
not
coming
into
consideration.
So
as
a
large
company
like
yours,
you
can't
afford
to
not
sit
at
that
table
and
partake
in
this
new
Aid
they've
got
at
use
coal,
so
it's
not
the
same
and
it
does
become
expensive.
It's
a
decision,
then
those
boardrooms.
A
You
have
to
decide
about
how
many
tons
of
coal
you're
going
to
use
compared
to
what
this
Aid
package
may
be
and
at
the
end
of
it's
going
to
come
at
a
number
where
you're
obviously
going
to
be
punished
and
somebody's
fingers
on
the
scale.
So
it
makes
it
difficult
for
us
now
I.
We
want
you
to
make
money,
but
what
we
just
saw
on
this
last
disaster
was:
we
saw
people
suffering
and
even
losing
their
life,
because
the
system
failed.
That
was
a
pretty
significant
dip
for
us
to
ignore
so
I
think
that's
it's!
A
It's
prudent
that
we
paused
and
and
have
taken
into
consideration
the
the
health
impact
of
what
happens
when
we
don't
have
power
at
the
end
of
those
lines
for
those
homes
and
as
we
follow
it
back
up
to
the
chain
we
kind
of
all
arrived
at
the
same
conclusion.
There
was
something
was
happening
there.
So
I
do
want
us
to
move
forward
but
put
everything
on
the
table
that
there's,
obviously
an
incentive
and
there's
there's
a
welcoming
aid
for
you
and
your
companies
and
utilities
that
want
to
participate
in
more
of
a
climate
oriented.
A
You
know
buffet
that
they
have
coming
out
of
this
Administration
and
truthfully
you'd
be
foolish
not
to
take
it.
You
guys
have
to
take
care
of
your
bottom
line.
Now
we
can't
change
that
here
and
I
disagree
wholeheartedly
with
the
federal
policy
of
what
they're
doing,
because
it
is
truly
killing
people,
and
so
we
won't
be
able
to
address
that
today,
but
I
think
Senator
Mills
has
put
something
on
the
table.
That's
a
good
start.
A
I
know
and
he'll
speak
personally
for
himself
that
there's
some
tweaks
that
I
think
May
address
some
of
the
stuff.
You
talked
about
that
he'll
be
doing
probably
on
the
floor
of
the
Senate
and
again
not
to
say
too
much
I'll.
Let
him
say
that,
but
I
think
I
have
one
member
that
may
have
had
a
question.
Senator
South
word.
H
A
H
H
G
G
That
life,
I
would
say
now
is
generally
averaging
in
the
in
terms
of
years
of
service.
In
the
mid
50s
yeah,
it
used
to
be
some
plants
last
that
lasted
longer.
Some
of
that
has
been
a
result
of
the
need
for
incremental
investment
because
of
environmental
regulations.
Some
has
just
been
age
and
efficiency.
G
I'll
just
use
my
way
of
example,
the
three
units
that
are
the
subject
of
our
current
proceeding
before
the
Kentucky
Public
Service
Commission,
that
we're
saying
is
now
is
the
time
to
retire.
Two
of
those
are
due
to
the
investment
required
to
comply
with
environmental
regulations
to
be
able
to
actually
run
those
units.
G
The
other
is
actually
an
economic
decision.
It's
an
older
plant,
it's
our
oldest
plant,
and
it's
currently
because
of
Economics.
It's
only
running
about
25
to
30
percent
of
the
time,
and
it's
largely
driven
by
by
fuel
cost
it
like,
unlike
a
lot
of
our
other
coal-fired
generating
units,
it's
not
sitting
on
a
river,
so
barge
access
to
Coal
is
not
an
option
and
again
it's
older.
H
If
you
were
to
do
a
retirement,
let's
say
it's
a
needed
retirement,
let's
say
everything's
broken
and
you
can't
even
run
it
one
person
at
a
time.
You
need
to
do
this
retirement.
So
did
you
already
compensate
for
that
reliability
or
that
energy
usage
at
some
other
point
so
much
so
that
there's
no
chance
that
you
would
need
that
one
percent
that
it
was
running
or
like
before
you
shut
down
that
last
one
percent:
have
you
already
added
10
somewhere
else,
I'm
trying
to
get
to
the
idea
of?
If
you
do
a
retirement?
H
G
There
are
a
number
of
of
factors
that
are
looked
at
to
assess
reliability,
one
of
them
that
I
think
very
directly
addresses
your
comment
and
question
is
reserve
margin,
so
we
will
typically
ensure
that
we
have
enough
usable
capacity
to
meet
our
customers.
Energy
demand
at
a
peak
point
in
time,
with
margins
to
spare
so
relative
to
sort
of
a
peak
load
for
us.
A
F
Please
go
ahead.
Thank
you.
First
I
would
like
to
state
that
Duke
Energy
Kentucky
understands
the
concern
that
Senate
Bill
4
is
attempting
to
address.
Reliability
is
a
core
mission
of
Duke
Energy
Kentucky
and
we
work
hard
every
day
to
provide
safe,
affordable
and
reliable
energy
to
our
customers.
In
that
regard,
our
goals
are
aligned.
F
We
are
concerned
that
Senate
Bill
4
is
a
significant
shift
in
the
Commonwealth's
energy
policy
that,
as
my
colleague
said,
will
cause
customers
rates
to
increase
by
requiring
them
to
continue
to
support
and
pay
for
Generation
well
past
its
useful
life.
The
decision,
whether
or
not
to
retire
a
power
plant
is
not
taken
lightly
by
any
prudent
operator.
F
Moreover,
such
legislation
should
not
establish
insurmountable
thresholds
that
make
the
decision
to
retire
an
asset
unachievable.
Such
a
result
is
not
in
Kentucky's
best
interests.
Senate
Bill
4
establishes
a
rebuttable
presumption
against
the
closure
of
any
fossil
fuel
power
plant
on
its
face,
requiring
the
utility
to
prove
that
the
closing
of
the
plant
will
not
jeopardize.
Reliability
is
logical.
F
F
F
F
As
a
generation
owner
in
pjm,
Duke,
Energy
Kentucky
is
required
to
follow
pjm's
generation
deactivation
process
when
it
decides
to
deactivate
or
retire
a
plant.
Under
this
process,
when
pjm
receives
a
request
for
a
specific
generating
unit
to
shut
down,
pjm
does
perform
a
study
of
the
impacts
of
its
transmission
system
that
it
manages
and
goes
through
a
rigorous
reliability
analysis
that
looks
ahead
15
years
into
the
future
and
uses
standard
criteria
to
identify
potential
transmission
issues
or
violations
of
standards
and,
in
the
event,
pjm
identifies
those
such
a
violation
or
an
issue.
F
F
Pjm's
reliability.
Impact
study
does
not
examine
impacts
of
a
proposed
retirement
at
any
retail
level.
The
legislation
is
currently
crafted
would
require
the
rto's
affirmation
of
a
reliability
performance
to
a
level
that
it
has
no
Authority
obligation
or
capability
to
make.
This
requirement
places
Kentucky's
utilities
that
are
in
an
RTO
in
the
untenable
position,
where
a
retirement
decision,
no
matter
how
Justified
as
part
of
a
lease
cost
most
reliable
and
efficient
resource
plan
could
never
pass
muster.
A
G
A
Even
the
bottom
line
is
is
even
fighting
them
in
court
emissions.
We
know
that
there's
so
many
different
ways
for
them
to
come
at
you,
but
that
all
comes
down
the
bottom
line
that
gets
factored
or
slid
over
into
that
column,
that,
if
you're
going
to
use
this
fuel
source,
these
are
all
the
tricks
and
that
come
with
this
dog
and
it
adds
it
up
and
it
causes
you
all
to
make
a
decision
not
based
upon
the
fuel
itself
or
the
availability
or
affordability
you're.
A
You
all
got
a
board
that
you
have
to
respond
bond
to,
and
we've
got
the
citizens
of
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky
that
hold
us
accountable
and
so
I
do
think.
There's
a
way
for
us
to
do
it,
but
I
don't
want
you
to
think
for
a
second
that
we
don't,
as
a
committee,
understand
that
the
hoops
and
the
stuff
that
the
federal
policy
puts
on
you.
A
That
makes
you
make
some
of
these
decisions
and
I
wish
I
had
the
power
here
today
to
do
away
with
it
nonsense,
because
it
would
literally
let
the
chips
fall
where
they
may
and
you
could
use
the
most
affordable
and
reliable
source,
which
I'm
sure
you'd
be
happy
and
simplify
a
lot
of
your
litigation,
but
that's
not
going
to
be
achievable
and
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Senator
Milson
he's
trying
that's
what's
important.
Is
that
he's
not
an
enemy
of
the
utility?
Certainly.
G
A
D
H
D
H
Do
we
have
any
kind
of
value
in
being
able
I
mean
because
we're
we're
the
state
government
and
the
federal
policy
is
driving
all
these
subsidies,
so
is
I,
guess
I'm
trying
to
get
to
the
bottom
of.
Is
this
going
to
do
what
I
really
think
it
or
hope
it's
doing,
or
is
the
federal
policy
going
to
kind
of
trump
everything
and
they're
going
to
sit
there
with
coal-fired
plants
not
doing
anything
and
going
on
to
this
unreliable
stuff?
Anyway?
D
Think
there's
a
narrow.
There
is
a
lane
of
Regulation
from
state
government
that
I
think
that's
what
that's
what
Senate
Bill
4
is
is
about
is
trying
to
trying
to
put
forth
what
we
would
like
to
see
and
we
would
like
to
have
more
reliable
power.
We
and
we
believe
that
coal,
since
it
comes
from
Kentucky
it's
on
the
ground,
it's
more
reliable.
If
there
was
long-term
contracts.
D
D
We
see
costs
in
the
East,
particularly
Rising,
for
several
different
factors,
but
my
concern
is
just
reliability
and
making
sure
that
the
business
decisions
that
are
being
made
in
the
in
the
in
the
boardrooms
and
the
availability
of
federal
incentives
that
chairman
Smith
has
talked
about,
doesn't
drive
us
into
an
environment
where
we
have
our
constituents
hit
and
miss
on
electricity,
and
that's
simply
what
the
bill
is
about.
It's
pretty
tough
to
be
a
legislator
and
to
enter
a
subject
like
this.
That
for
years,
has
been
controlled
by
you
know.
D
Finally,
in
one
of
our
meetings,
got
one
the
utilities
to
actually
tell
me
what
a
cost
of
retrofitting
a
coal
a
coal
burning
facility
was
I've.
Asked
that
question
for
two
years
and
really
haven't
been
able
to
get
an
answer.
So
there
there
are
numbers.
There
are
costs
involved
in
continuing
to
burn
coal
that
that
they
have
figured
and
I
think
that
that
we
need
to
try
to
make
sure
that
coal
plants
are
going
to
the
you
know.
They're
maxed
out
to
their
life
is
maxed
out
and
they
continue
to
burn
coal.
D
H
D
I
think
that
our
thought
with
adding
2B
was
that
that
was
just
another
set
of
eyes
that
could
look
at
the
situation.
The
closure
request
in
the
last
couple
days,
I've
learned
that
and
gentleman
here
in
his
testimony,
said
that
basically
they
don't
look
at
that
until
they
get
the
for
sure
shutdown
request
as
far
as
a
reliability
standpoints,
so
that
possibly
could
be
an
amendment
that
we
could
work
on
that,
since
that
is
seems
to
be
on.
You
know
unrelated
to
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish.
D
A
Yeah,
just
Good
Housekeeping
we're
making
a
motion
on
the
committee
Subs.
That's
correct
motion
a
second
on
the
bill,
as
amended
by
the
committee,
said:
yes
got
it
right,
so
just
for
you
all
it's
a
motion
and
the
committee
sub,
as
as
the
bill
is
amended
by
the
committee,
so
motion.
Second,
at
this
time,
do
you
have
any
other
further
comments
or
you
want
to
vote
this
I.
Do
not
I'm
ready,
okay,.
B
I
You
know
this
is
always
an
issue,
that's
of
concern,
and
you
know
we
have
friends
on
the
power
side.
We
have
friends,
you
know
our
constituents,
that's
worried
about
their
prices
and
and
reliability.
So
you
know
this
process.
Senator
Mills.
As
you
know,
it's
a
good
way
to
get
everybody
excited
and
stirred
up
and
keep
them
here.
Late
on.
J
I
H
H
We
rub
shoulders
with
people
from
other
states
who
do
the
same
job
we
do
and
what
I
found,
at
least
in
theory
and
I,
don't
know
if
it's
in
practice,
but
it
seems
like
it
is
in
other
states
they
actually
call
their
committee
subs
and
stuff
markups,
and
the
committee
sits
there
and
scratches
out
like
during
the
meeting
and
I,
really
see
that
as
what
the
committee
is
supposed
to
do
and
so
I
would
like.
You
know
to
be
able
to
do
that
here
and
have
a
process
to
do
that.
I!
Don't
like
voting.
B
J
I
really
appreciate
this
Bob,
because
I
think
it's
the
first
stop
Gap
bill
that
we've
had
in
a
while
and
after
listening
to
TVA,
saying
that
they're
going
to
tear
down
some,
they
had
plenty
of
gas
Wells
gas,
but
one
switch
got
screwed
up
and
they
had
to
shut
the
power
down
for
thousands
and
TVA
saying
well
we're
gonna
the
reason
we're
going
to
try.
Those
Downs
is
because
we
hadn't
any
increase
in
power
usage
in
the
last
five
years
and
I
asked
them
they're,
not
old
enough.
J
I
guess,
remember
the
77
freeze
that
shut
down
half
of
America
you,
the
over
High
River
froze
over.
We
get
that
and
here
their
weather
with
him
20
degrees,
and
they
have
to
shut
that
down.
They
have
no
thing
to
control
if
you've
got
people
on
life
support
or
what
have
you.
This
is
a
stopgap
measure.
J
We
know
that
they're
stockholders
and
utilities,
so
they're
going
to
get
paid
one
way
or
the
other
there's
incentive
from
this
Federal
incentive
to
get
them
to
do
that
and
TVA
admitted
it
and
and
the
retrofitting
of
these
things
should
have
been
going
on
for
years.
The
taxpayers
that
buy
utilities
got
to
pay
for
them
for
the
years
that
they're
string
out
there,
whether
in
use
or
torn
down.
J
B
K
I
think
some
of
the
concerns
of
the
bill
already
been
discussed
and
hopefully
will
be
addressed
after
discussions
with
the
sponsor
grid.
Reliabilities,
probably
one
of
the
biggest
issues
in
this
country
on
many
levels,
and
not
just
from
an
energy
major
here,
but
I
think
the
conversation
needs
to
continue.
I'm
glad
to
see
you
all
here
today.
We
appreciate
you
being
here
and
I'm
going
to
vote
Yes
in
hopes
that
the
conversation
continues
and
I
anticipate
a
different,
a
little
bit
different
version
of
The
Bill.
Thank
you.
L
Mr
chairman
explain
my
vote.
Please
do
I
agree
with
comments
from
the
senator
from
Harlan
and
several
others
on
this
committee.
I
mean
we
do
need
to
stop
Gap
measure
to
prevent
the
continued
undermining
of
our
nation's
electrical
grid.
I
mean
we've
seen
what
some
of
these
government
policies
out
of
Washington
have
caused
in
States,
like
California,
where
you
have
rolling
blackouts,
where
you're
told
not
to
even
charge
up
your
electrical
car
at
certain
times
of
the
day,
and
yet
they
expect
everybody
to
go
to
that.
L
Clearly,
on
a
state
level,
we
can't
always
affect
federal
policy,
but
we
can
sometimes
put
a
little
bit
of
a
kink
in
it.
We
also
have
to
remember
that
these
federal
tax
credits
driving
some
of
these
policies.
You
know
the
rate
payers
are
paying
these
taxes
too,
so
they're,
paying
these
electric
bills
one
way
or
another,
and
sometimes
the
the
folks
that
they
may
not
realize
that
they
may
think
they're
getting
a
cheaper
electric
bill,
but
you
know
we're
going
to
have
to
take
care
of
this
debt
sometimes
and
the
more.
L
E
So
I
I
said
I've
talked
to
both
sides,
I'm
new
to
this
committee.
I
see
this
is
going
to
pass
if
it
was
needed.
A
yes
vote
for
to
move
forward.
I
would
because
I
think
these
parties
would
work
together
and
there
is
going
to
have
to
be
work
going
forward,
but
I'm
going
to
pass
at
this
point,
because
I
think
that
I
am
concerned
about
the
investors
and
the
utilities
and
some
of
the
other
features,
but
I
don't
want
to
see
things
shut
down,
but
this
is
going
to
go
forward.
A
How
about
I'm
and
the
motion
sorry
passes?
You
have
a
motion,
the
second
to
adopt
Senate
Bill
four
has
been
as
submitted
by
the
committee
sub
as
passes
this
committee
with
the
Expressions
favorable.
So
congratulations
on
getting
your
bill
out.
I
think
you
still
have
you'll
have
some
work
to
kind
of
do
with
it
in
there.
But
gentlemen,
thanks
for
your
testimony,
this
lay
down
I.
Think
thank
you
with
this.