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From YouTube: Lottery Trust Fund Task Force (9-21-23)
Description
Meeting start – 00:00:00
Attendance roll call – 00:00:14
Financial Aid Programs in the Southeast Region, Dr. Pruitt, Southern Regional Education Board – 00:00:57
Approval of the minutes from the August 3, 2023 meeting – 00:46:39
National Perspective of State Financial Aid Programs, Frank Ballmann, National Association of State Student Grand and Aid Programs – 00:47:00
Next meeting announcement: Thursday, October 19, 2023, at 3 p.m. – 01:00:38
A
C
A
We'll
hold
off
on
approving
of
the
minutes
until
we
have
Gorham
all
right
today.
Folks,
welcome
to
the
meeting
this
task
force
is
charged
with
comparing
the
Commonwealth's
current
system
of
scholarship
and
Grant
programs
with
those
of
other
states.
Today
we
will
be
hearing
about.
Other
states
are
supported,
their
students,
post-secondary
Education
First.
We
have
Dr
Stephen
Pruitt,
our
former
Commissioner
of
education
and
the
current
president
of
the
Southern
Regional
Education
board
to
share
with
us
his
insights
into
how
our
neighboring
states
are
tackling
this
challenge.
D
Greetings:
Stephen
Pruitt,
president
of
Southern
Regional
Education
board,
always
happy
to
be
in
Kentucky.
So
thank
you
for
having
me.
We
always
appreciate
when
you
guys
ask
us
to
do
a
little
work
for
you,
but
mainly
because
I
just
love
coming
up
here
in
the
fall
there's
nothing
like
a
Kentucky
fall
because,
as
you
may
know,
in
Georgia
there's
only
four
seasons
if
you
count
football,
so
we're
happy
to
be
always
happy
to
be
here,
so
we
have
pulled
together.
D
D
All
right,
but
thank
you
for
having
us
thank
you
very
much
and
we
will
I
will
try
to
get
through
this
fairly
quickly,
but
hopefully
give
you
some
good
information
and,
as
always,
feel
free
to
chime
in
and
ask
questions.
What
we
tried
to
do
is
pull
this
together
for
you
in
a
way
that
gives
you
a
perspective
of.
D
There
we
go
is
on
in
the
areas
of
Kansas,
Florida,
Georgia
and
obviously
Kentucky
and
South
Carolina
and
Tennessee,
we're
mainly
focusing
on
those
areas,
because
those
are
the
ones
that
are
truly
using
the
majority
of
Lottery
funds
toward
their
toward
their
scholarships.
West
Virginia
has
a
lottery
that
they
use,
but
basically
less
than
10
percent
of
their
total
revenue
actually
goes
toward
scholarship
or
merit
scholarship
or
needs-based
scholarship.
D
So
when
we
think
about
these
mostly
around
the
the
South,
most
of
them
are
merit-based
scholarships,
meaning
that
there
has
to
be
some
type
of
achievement
tie
to
this.
So
there's
often
you'll
see
where
there's
standardized
test
scores,
there's
GPA
and
actually,
in
one
case,
there's
actually
class
rank,
which
I
find
interesting
for
many
reasons
that
I
won't
get
into
today
is
a
former
K-12
guy,
but
you'll
see
that
that's
mainly
the
focus,
but
we
also
see
where
needs-based
AID
there's
a
lot
of
focus
on
post-secondary,
Career
and
Technical
education,
dual
enrollment
and
early
childhood.
D
You
know
I
always
when
I
get
a
chance,
I
love
to
brag
a
little
bit
and
and
talk
about
the
good
things
going
on
in
Kentucky.
So
actually
the
way
Kentucky
approaches
the
key
scholarship.
You
have
more
needs
based
than
merit-based
scholarship
Aid,
and
it's
really
unique
in
the
region.
It's
for
the
most
part.
Everybody
else
really
makes
it
very
much
pure
scholarship
Kentucky
seems
to
take
a
little
bit
more
balanced
approach
and
have
both
scholarship
and
the
needs
based.
D
So
I
know
you
guys
know
this,
but
I
have
found
a
long
time
ago.
It's
it's
good
to
start
your
presentation,
but
just
kind
of
level
setting
and
making
sure
that
we're
all
on
the
same
place
with
where
we're
actually
sitting
right
now.
So,
as
you
know,
there's
the
Kentucky
education
ex
excellent
scholarship
or
Keys,
the
college
Access
program
or
the
cap
Grant
the
Kentucky
tuition
Grant,
which
is
mainly
need
based
private
institutions.
D
D
It
is
initially
based
on
their
Merit
coming
out
of
high
school
and
their
scores
on
a
standardized
test.
They
actually
have
pretty
defined,
rewards
freshmen
get
a
thousand
dollars,
four
thousand
dollars
go
to
sophomores
and
that
are
at
three
or
three
thousand
dollars
actually
can
go
to
two-year
institutions.
Juniors
and
seniors
get
five
thousand
dollars.
D
Last
year
they
had
about
26
000
recipients.
To
that
the
workforce
challenge
they
actually
has
a
a
focus
on
people
with
anyone
with
a
high
school
diploma.
It's
not
somebody
currently
in
school.
If
you
have
a
diploma,
then
you
qualify
for
this
and
it's
focused
on
at
least
one
year
of
Workforce
training
in
high
demand
areas.
Now
you
all
know
this,
but
I'm
going
to
say
this
to
you
anyway.
One
of
the
things
that
I
think
is
a
real
point
of
pride
in
Kentucky.
D
Is
your
data
system
is
really
one
of
the
most
robust
in
the
country.
It's
certainly
one
of
the
most
robust
in
the
in
the
region.
You're
going
to
hear
me
talk
about
how
I
need
industry
in
several
these
states
and
I'm
not
saying
this
in
any
way
to
be
disparaging,
but
I
will
tell
you
that
that
having
lived
and
worked
here
and
having
worked
with
these
other
states,
the
ability
for
Kentucky
to
identify
High
need
industry
even
down
to
a
local
community
level,
is
pretty
much
unparalleled.
D
You
can
often
find
that
top
five,
but
you
can't
necessarily
get
it
down
to
I
mean
frankly,
I
know
when
I
was
here
and
it
probably
has
gotten
better.
We
could
identify
the
top
five
within
about
30
miles
of
a
school
district,
which
is
a
pretty
important
deal
so
with
regard
to
the
workforce,
challenge
scholarship,
it's
they
focus
it
on
it's
a
little
less
on
data
and
a
little
bit
more
on
what
they've
identified
as
general
categories.
So
they
have
identified
informational
technology,
health
care
and
Industry
I'm.
D
Sorry,
industrial,
like
construction,
and
that
sort
of
thing
they
have
a
list
of
eligible
programs
which
I
do
think
is
pretty
important.
We
saw
this
with
the
dual
enrollment
scholarship
here
in
Kentucky,
I
know
the
first
year
we
rolled
it
out.
We
actually
saw
where
some
kids
use
some
of
that
money
to
take
badminton
and
we
kind
of
realized
that
we
needed
to
put
a
list
and
say
no.
Actually,
this
needs
to
be
done
in
a
different
way
and
I'm,
assuming
it's
still
done.
That
way.
D
Today,
the
Arkansas
concurrent
challenged
scholarship
is
Virginia
and
high
school
students,
as
juniors
seniors
in
high
school,
to
take
their
dual
enrollment
very
similar
to
what
is
done
here
in
Kentucky.
They
do
have
a
maximum
Award
of
125
dollars
per
course,
and
Arkansas
has
a
pretty
much
a
cap
on
what
those
course
costs
are
at
the
at
that
level.
The
challenge
plus
scholarship
may
not
exceed
five
thousand
dollars
to
any
individual
person
and
they
set.
The
legislature
sets
a
cap
of
about
25
million
dollars
on
there.
This
was
first
established
in
2023.
D
Florida
bright
future
scholarship,
the
academic,
Scholars
and
medallions
Scholars
are
both
merit-based
scholarships.
The
goal
seal
vocational
Scholars
is
focused
on
Career
Education
or
certificate
programs.
Again,
one
little
difference
here
is
when
you're
talking
about
certificate
program.
This
doesn't
means
that
it
can
happen
outside
of
a
two-year
college,
but
it's
more
focused
on,
rather
than
getting
a
an
associate's
degree,
it's
actually
finding
ways
for
students
to
get
into
those
certificate.
Programs
like
welding
and
others
that
that
can
get
into
the
workforce
faster.
D
All
of
these
do
still
have
a
GPA
or
standardized
test
requirement.
Although
the
the
goal
seal
vocational
Scholars
isn't
quite
as
high
a
bar
as
it
is
for
the
for
the
the
first
two,
their
gold
seal,
Cape
Scholars
is
again
it's
a
career,
education
or
certificate
program
that
require
that
is
focused
on
professional
industry,
certifications
earned.
D
So
you
can
see
with
this
one,
that's
slightly
different.
The
other
one's
focused
a
little
bit
more
on
post-secondary,
whereas
this
one
is
actually
a
scholarship
for
kids,
while
they're
still
in
high
school,
with
the
intent
of
trying
to
incentivize
students
to
get
those
interest
certifications
before
they
graduate.
D
Interesting
thing
about
Florida
is
that
they
actually
have
a
minimum
paid
work
hour
or
volunteer
service
hour
requirement
so
to
receive
this.
You
have
to
have
shown
either
involvement
in
the
community
or
have
some
type
of
record
that
you
have
had
a
certain
number
of
hours
of
paid
work
and
that
they
from
what
we
can
tell
there's
not
there's
no
requirement
of
like
where
the
area
is.
It's
just
proof
that
the
student
is
working
Georgia,
which
is
sort
of
the
granddaddy
of
these
Lottery
programs.
D
D
Is
they
sort
of
overshot
a
little
bit
and
they
over
the
years
they've
had
to
pull
back
on
it
because
it
was
they
were
at
the
spending
was
exceeding
what
was
being
taken
in
by
the
lottery
itself,
so
all
of
you
I'm
sure
have
heard
of
The
Hope
Scholarship.
They
have
two
really
divisions
of
that.
There's
the
Hope
Scholarship
and
the
Zell
Miller
scholarship,
the
Zell
Miller,
is
actually
the
highest
rating.
D
You
have
to
really
have
a
high
GPA
score
highly
on
your
standardized
test
and
you
get
100
of
tuition
when
it
looks
at
hope,
there's
actually
sort
of
what
they
call
a
factor
rate,
which
basically
is
what
the
allocation
set
by
the
legislature
is.
That
covers
a
percentage
of
that
tuition.
So
every
year
they
take
a
look
at
what
the
revenue
is
and
the
legislature
decides
we're
going
to
allocate
X
number
of
dollars,
and
that
factor
is
what
is
put
throughout
Georgia
by
the
way
I
failed
to
mention
this
in
Florida.
D
D
Well,
actually
it
makes
things
a
little
bit
easier
to
be
able
to
quantify
and
calculate
tuitions,
because
those
things
are
a
little
bit
more
standardized
in
Florida
they're,
not
completely
I'm
sure
the
University
of
Florida
has
a
very
different
tuition
scale
than
most
others,
but
it's
a
little
bit
more
controlled
environment
I
bring
that
up
because
in
Georgia
there's
there's
not
a
controlled
environment,
it's
all
over
the
place.
So
it
is
actually
a
little
bit
of
a
challenge
for
the
Georgia
student
finance
commission
to
actually
calculate
this
every
year.
D
So
I
will
say
that
the
factor
rate
was
set
at
100
for
the
first
time
last
year,
Georgia
had
record
numbers
of
Revenue
both
in
terms
of
the
lottery
and
in
terms
of
their
overall
tax
revenue.
So
last
year
was
the
first
time
that
they
actually
set
that
as
a
hundred
percent,
they
also
several
years
later
started
the
a
second
thing,
and
so
the
key
is
you've
got
the
Hope,
Scholarship
and
you've
got
the
hope,
Grant.
D
The
hope
Grant
is
focused
on
students
who
are
moving
toward
some
type
of
certification
or
some
type
of
credentialing
at
a
two-year
college,
so
your
hope
Grant.
They
used
to
have
a
much
longer
name.
So
luckily
they
figured
out
that
acronym,
so
weird
or
whatever
it
was,
is
probably
not
the
best.
So
they
move
that
to
be
a
focus
on
specific
programs
for
employer
demand,
so
they
leverage
their
Workforce
boards
similar
to
what
we
do
here
in
in
Kentucky.
So
what
you
do
in
Kentucky
with
using
those
Workforce
Innovation
boards.
D
You
also
have
a
hope,
division
that
actually
helps
students
get
the
high
the
GED
that
provides
additional
funding
for
students
who
are
working
toward
getting
that
GD
who
have
dropped
out
of
school
and
they
actually
use
their
Lottery
funds
to
on
their
pre-k
program.
It's
a
voluntary
Statewide
pre-kindergarten
that
starts
at
the
age
of
four,
so
they
use
their
scholarship
dollars
for
that
South
Carolina
has
several
scholarships
that
they
use
they
primarily
with
their
Palmetto
fellows
or
life.
D
They
also
have
a
version
of
Hope,
which
is
for
freshmen,
so
there
is
an
opportunity
for
freshmen
there,
but
it's
a
little
bit
more
focused
on
students
that
are
sophomore
to
senior
there.
They
also
have
need-based
grants.
It
is
of
fi.
You
know
the
proverbial
last
dollar
Grant,
so
it's
not
awarded
until
after
the
student
has
filled
out
the
FAFSA
and
there's
been
an
evaluation
of
how
much
extra
funds
are
needed
before
that
is
actually
granted.
D
They
have
a
tuition
assistance
program
for
two-year
institutions
in
that
two-year
institution.
They
it's
awarded
again
in
concert
with
that
federal
aid,
and
it
can't
be
double
you
can't
double
dip
here,
so
you
can't
get
the
Merit
pay
and
get
this
it's
going
to
be
an
either
or
they
also
have
a
Workforce
industry
needs
scholarship.
It's
focused
on
technical
colleges
and
again
IT
addresses
Workforce
needs,
there's
a
minimum
of
five
percent
of
funding
that
they
use
toward
dual
enrollment.
D
We
couldn't
find
a
lot
of
detail.
We've
been
doing
some
work
in
South,
Carolina
and
I
think
that
they
are
working
toward
having
a
little
bit
more
of
a
defined
system
when
it
comes
to
what
those
Workforce
needs
are,
but
right
now,
I
think
it's
still
a
little
bit
of
what
the
Statewide
is
versus,
trying
to
become
any
type
of
community
base,
the
Tennessee
system.
They
also
have
a
Hope
Scholarship,
it's
merit-based.
It
goes
to
students
in
both
two-year
and
four-year
institutions.
D
There's
a
general
assembly
merit
scholarship,
that
is
a
supplemental
award
for
freshmen.
They
have
an
Aspire
that
is
for
entering
a
freshman
with
financial
need
and
a
Hope
Scholarship
for
non-traditional
undergraduate
students.
So
this
is
where
they're
trying
to
get
the
students
who
have
left
High,
School
they've
gone
out
into
the
work
world
and
now
they're
trying
to
get
them
back.
D
Just
as
a
and
I.
Please
understand
those
of
you
who
don't
know
me
I'm,
not
in
any
way
trying
to
dissuade
you
on
anything
or
persuade
you
on
anything.
But
I
will
say
this
that
one
of
the
things
we
know
about
where
the
workforce
is
going
is
that
we
have
a
lot
of
people
over
the
age
of
25
and
below
the
age
of
65
that
are
going
to
basically
not
have
a
place
to
work
over
the
next
five
to
eight
years
due
to
the
changes
in
the
workforce.
D
We
also,
they
also
have
the
Wilder
Nafi
I
think
is
how
they
say
it.
Technical
skills
Grant,
which
again
is
focused
on
applied
technology.
They
identified
that
as
a
high
need
in
Tennessee.
They
have
a
lot
of
EV
battery
plants
that
are
being
built
there.
So
they
are,
you
know,
kind
of
tweaking
this
to
help
address
those
needs,
and
they
also
have
a
dual
enrollment
Grant
as
well
before
I
go
to
the
research
it
dawned
on
me
I.
D
A
lot
of
you
here
know
who
we
are,
but
for
those
of
you
that
may
not.
We
are
an
interstate
compact.
We
are
75
years
old.
Many
of
you
are
members
of
of
our
organization,
as
appointed
by
either
the
head
of
your
chamber
or
by
the
governor.
We
literally
operate
at
your
behest.
Our
job
is
to
make
you
successful
whatever
that
means,
and,
however
you
define
that.
So
that's
why
it's
always
a
thrill
to
be
here
because
I
love
being
in
Kentucky,
but
also
we
love
it
when
people
actually
call
on
us.
D
That's
why
you
can
trust
us
to
not
come
in
with
an
agenda.
Our
job
is
to
support
you
with
the
level
of
research
So.
Speaking
of
that
research
here
are
some
things
that
we
looked
up
or
that
we
found
we
did
a
literature
review
about
the
different
scholarships
that
have
been
around
for
a
while
and
just
being
quite
candid,
there's
not
a
lot,
there's
not
a
lot
out
there.
That
gives
us
definitive.
D
D
We
found
a
lot
of
statistics,
but
not
a
lot
of
we
found
this
I
will
point
to
Oklahoma,
who
did
who
has
Oklahoma's
promise,
which
is
actually
a
scholarship
focused
on
it's,
a
needs-based
scholarship
for
students
who
are
first
generation
college
students,
and
it
starts
actually
with
supporting
middle
school,
and
they
actually
did
evaluation
and
they
actually
had
us
come
in
and
do
an
evaluation
and
they
found
things
like
that.
You
know:
89
percent
of
students
actually
stay
in
Oklahoma
who
go
through
that
program
versus
those
go
through
others.
D
They
have
a
higher
persistence
rate,
they
tend
to
have
higher
over
lifetime
income,
and
so
those
types
of
things
are
actually
one
of
the
things
I'm
going
to
suggest
to
you
at
the
end
that
you
may
want
to
consider
is
having
that
evaluation
done.
So
you
know
is
what
we're
doing
actually
working
or
not.
D
We
found
that
most
merit-based
pro
programs
serve
a
small
percentage
of
students
with
need,
and
it's
primarily
for
middle
and
upper
income,
who
are
probably
going
to
go
to
Upper
going
to
go
post-secondary
anyway.
So
when
it's
purely
Merit
you're
gonna
you,
you
still
kind
of
narrow
that
field
a
little
bit.
Much
of
the
available
research,
unfortunately,
is
in
the
90s
in
the
early
2000s.
So
that
tells
you
you
know
we
and
we
kind
of
have
a
history
of
this
in
education
right.
We
fall
in
love
with
an
idea
and
we
go
with
it
until.
D
D
So
I'm
going
to
go
through
this
in
a
lot
of
detail.
You
have
this,
you
can
read
it
yourselves,
but
you
know
in
99
they
found
no
evidence
that
the
Georgia
hope
program
of
great
inflation.
Even
though
eligibility
had
increased,
they
had
a
slightly
higher
minority
enrollment.
In
the
University
system
of
Georgia,
they
met
the
goal
of
retaining
more
students
in
post-secondary.
There
were
fewer
than
25
percent
retained
for
Hope
in
four
years,
and
black
students
were
most
likely
to
lose
eligibility
and
drop
out.
D
It's
a
pretty
interesting
study.
I
wish
somebody
would
do
that
again.
The
great
inflation
thing
as
a
K-12
person,
I,
have
to
say
I'm
a
little
skeptical
of
whether
or
not
there's
great
inflation,
but
it
is
actually
why
Georgia
started
putting
a
few
more
things
in
there.
Besides
just
having
a
3.0
GPA
in
99,
there
was
another
study
done
where
half
of
the
recipients
lost
eligibility
after
the
first
Academic
Year
again
that
kind
of
LED
kind
of
mentioned
that
earlier
in
2000,
there
was
a
Hope
Scholarship
study
done
again
in
Georgia.
D
The
policy
program,
analysis
and
government
accountability
did
a
study
or
did
an
evaluation,
maybe
a
better
way
to
say
that
they
found
that
it
does
make
College
more
affordable
for
many
families.
It
improved.
Post-Secondary
preparation,
saw
greatest
increase
in
college
prep
and
persistence
rates
among
minority
students,
and
it
showed
an
increasing
requirements
to
control
costs
likely
to
the
disproportionate
negative
effects
on
minority
and
at-risk
students.
D
D
This
is
a
Pruitt
thought,
so
this
is
not
in
any
way
part
of
the
of
the
study
here
so
don't
misinterpret.
I
would
say
that
that
probably
has
a
little
bit
to
do
with
the
levels
of
support
that
a
lot
of
those
students
were
getting
about.
What
do
you
actually
need
to
take
to
get
this
degree
not
to
brag
a
little
bit?
D
But
my
brother-in-law
is
the
president
of
one
of
the
largest
Career
and
Technical
colleges
in
Georgia,
and
they
revamped
their
counseling
program,
for
instance,
to
put
kids
kids
don't
get
to
choose
courses,
they
sit
down
with
their
Mentor
or
their
advisor
every
semester
and
say
you
know
if
you
take
this
course
before
you
take
this
course.
You
can
actually
get
this
certification
and
it
actually
is
a
different
level
of
support
that
we're
starting
to
see
in
more
places
as
well,
also
found
in
2021
that
they
accumulated
more
debt
than
non-recipients,
which
was
interesting.
D
There
was
no
effect
among
lower
income
recipients,
so
you'd
think
that
you
would
actually
have
less
debt
if
you
were
the
recipient
of
one
of
these,
but
apparently
somehow
they're,
finding
a
way
to
still
borrow
money
in
2014
Tennessee
did
an
audit.
They
found
that
the
distribution
may
not
be
fair
and,
of
course,
you
know,
you
know
how
these
audits
go,
there's
a
lot
of
maybes
and
and
could
bees,
but
they
were
not
verifying.
The
GPA
for
eligibility
were
actually
done
in
compliance
with
the
policy.
The
policy
left
the
calculation
to
schools.
D
They
have
since
changed
that
because
they
felt
that
it's
better
Georgia
actually
did
that
as
well.
They
moved
it
to
the
Georgia
student
finance
commission
so
that
no
matter
what's
on
your
transcript,
it
gets
sent
and
there's
a
calculation
done
at
that
level,
because
there
are
certain
things
that
don't
count.
So
if
a
kid
takes
a
high
school,
you
know
their
senior
year
all
PE
classes.
D
You
know
those
aren't
going
to
count
so
just
some
closing
thoughts.
I
would
one
of
the
things
like
I
said
we
saw?
Is
there's
not
a
lot
of
great
research
that
supports
for
or
against
how
to
do
this
things
that
you
might
want
to
consider
as
you're
looking
at
this?
Are
you
know?
What
are
your
rates
of
lost
eligibility?
D
What's
the
persistence
to
graduation?
Are
you
actually
lowering
student
debt?
Is
there
actually
that
return
on
investment?
I?
Think
that's
actually
a
conversation.
That's
happening
a
lot
in
dual
enrollment
across
the
South
right
now.
Is
there
a
point
of
diminishing
return
where
you
are
putting
all
that
money,
but
you're,
actually
not
getting
all
that
out?
What's
the
effect
on
unmet
student
need,
what's
the
effect
on
time
to
degree
what
career
fields
are
being
chosen?
Are
we
really
giving
guidance
for
that?
Is
there
an
effect
on
course
taking
patterns?
D
D
D
A
You
Dr
Pruitt
I,
think
your
presentation
was
spot
on
to
some
of
the
things
that
we're
kind
of
looking
for
here.
Some
comparison
to
other
states.
Yes,
but
I,
think
your
comments
about
the
Workforce
Development
is
spot
on
too
we're
in
a
transitional
period
here
in
Kentucky
and
I
believe
the
call
for
an
evaluation
of
of
the
alignment
of
those
scholarships
and
how
they
do
fall
in
line
with
the
direction
the
state
is
going
in.
A
E
Thank
you,
Mr
chair,
Dr,
Pruitt's,
awful
good
seed
back
in
the
Commonwealth.
Thank
you
for
what
you
do.
My
question
may
be
a
little
different
and
it
may
be
a
comment
as
well
as
a
question.
Are
there
any
states
that
give
a
reward
on
the
back
end?
In
other
words,
when
you
graduate
and
the
reason
I
ask
that
question
is,
is
because
we
do
we,
we
put
such
an
emphasis
on
getting
kids
to
go
to
college,
and
then
we
know
that
the
graduation
rate
is
not
as
high
as
we
would
like
it
to
be.
D
Have
actually
not
seen
that
anywhere,
it's
an
interesting
idea,
I
think
that
the
closest
I've
seen
and
I
can't
remember
the
state,
but
I
and
I
actually
don't
think
it
passed,
but
I
think
it
was
introduced
as
an
idea
of
some
type
of
tax
credit
for
the
first
couple
of
years
after
you
have
graduated,
but
it
didn't
pass.
So
it's
not
been
implemented
in
any
state
that
I
know
of,
but
it's
it's.
F
F
Well,
I
got
a
lot
of
questions.
One
question
just
comes
to
mind
in
relation
to
what
representative
Raleigh
asked
in
regard
to
completion
and
retaining
students.
Are
there
any
states
that
Focus
scholarships
on
that
year
three
year?
Four,
because
a
lot
of
the
reasons
that
students
do
not
complete
is
because
of
financial
need.
So
are
there
any
states
looking
at
something
like
that
where,
in
the
year
three
year,
four
there's
some
additional
supplemental
scholarships
to
help
them
get
to
that
completion.
D
Yes,
sir,
so
South
Carolina
actually
uses
about
two-thirds
of
their
life
scholarship
for
third
and
fourth
year,
students
there's
some
available
for
those
early
years,
but
their
focus
is
to
try
to
help
the
students
once
they
get
to
third
and
fourth
year,
because
I
think
it's
you
know.
Arguably
part
of
that
is
that's
also
when
life
starts
to
happen
for
a
lot
of
people
they
get
married,
kids
come
along
and
they
end
up
with
those
financial
strains.
F
F
F
Got
the
pale
eligible
student
like
here
in
Kentucky,
they
get
the
cap
Grant
we've
got
the
key
scholarship,
however,
that
student
is
not
pale.
Eligible
they've
got
the
key
scholarship
and
maybe
it's
a
challenge
for
them
and
their
family.
Are
there
any
states
that
are
focusing
on
what
I
call
that
lower
middle
income
family?
Well,.
D
D
Arguably
the
parts
you
get
into
the
questions:
how
does
that
overlay
with
the
workforce
stuff
but
I
would
say
they
kind
of
took
that
off
the
table
so
that,
if
you're
not
quite
eligible
for
pale,
you
do
get
that
now.
The
reality
is,
if
you
also
aren't
eligible
for
Pell,
even
in
Georgia,
when
you
get
that
scholarship,
it's
not
covering
book
costs
living
costs.
You
know,
and
so
that
still
ends
up
being
an
impediment
if
you're
just
under
that
pale
eligibility.
F
Of
course,
Mr
chairman,
you
and
I
discussed
this
yesterday
here
in
Kentucky,
we
had
the
Kentucky
Workforce
scholarship
for
for
those
who
do
not
have
associates
degree
in
the
high
demand
areas,
so
we're
getting
we're
getting
some
of
those
technical
courses
in
there,
but
there's
really
for
those
for
that
individual
who
maybe
has
taken
a
general
education,
more
typical
college-based
experience
as
it's
not
eligible
for
them.
Thank
you.
G
Chairman,
thank
you
and
commissioner,
thank
you
for
coming
up.
You
know
you
always
bring
a
lot
of
thoughtful
thought-provoking
information.
You
you're
a
servant
leader
when
you
were
here
in
the
Commonwealth
as
commissioner,
so
I
want
to.
Thank
you
for
that
too.
Publicly
a
couple
things.
A
couple
of
comments
really
quickly.
Dr
Thompson
spoke
before
this
committee.
I
mean
he
talked
about
the
600
000
people
in
Kentucky
that
are
a
certificate
away.
F
G
He
said
that
that
was
his
number
one
group
to
really
go
after
and
I
think
one
of
the
realities
that
we're
going
to
have
to
do
we're
going
to
have
to
have
conversations
specifically
about
where
we're
allocating
our
resources.
I
know
that's
the
purpose
of
this
committee,
and
this
is
what
comments
we
keep
saying
it
over
and
over.
G
You
know,
I
know
that
the
burden
you
know
we're
thinking
the
lottery
is
going
to
bail
us
out,
but
they
have
a
fixed
pie
and
yes,
they
are
having
great
years
with
sales,
but
at
the
same
time
our
universities
aren't
getting
any
cheaper.
So
it's
a
it's
a
they're,
both
racing,
but
the
lottery
is
not
keeping
up.
So
we
have
to
be
we're.
Gonna
have
to
be
strategic
about
this.
G
D
Thank
you,
and,
and
if,
if
I
may,
I
I
I
have
to
say,
based
on
your
comment
that
you
know,
one
of
the
things
I
think
that
we've
got
to
start
thinking
about
is
instead
of
asking
kids,
where
they're
going
to
college
asking
them
simply
what's
next,
because
we
I
think
the
longer
we
keep
two
separate
groups,
one's
always
going
to
feel
inferior
to
the
other.
What
we
know
is
that
automation,
artificial
intelligence
is
changing
the
world.
What
we
know
is
that
a
study
we
did
that
many
of
you
are
aware
of.
D
There's
the
Chick-fil-A
eight
miles
from
my
house
that
you
do
not
see
a
person
you
type
in
the
your
order
and
a
robot
delivers
you,
the
food
and
a
robot
has
cooked
the
food
and
that's
where
we're
headed
and
so
thinking
about
Career
and
Technical
education.
It's
not
just
learning
how
to
you
know
the
right
angle
for
a
nail.
It's
actually
content
knowledge,
as
well
as
the
skill
knowledge,
and
that's
why
I
say
I,
don't
think
there
can
be
two
groups
anymore.
It's
got
to
be.
A
A
Oh
I
will
I,
do
have
one
more
question
before
we
let
you
go
in
your
studies
of
the
other
surrounding
states
you
mentioned.
You
know
there
was
a
kind
of
a
a
missing
element
of
review
of
the
programs
and
and
those
things
when
you
looked
at
the
other
states.
Did
you
find
that
maybe,
from
the
early
2000s
90s
that
maybe
they're
these
Workforce
Innovation
boards?
A
D
I'm
going
to
answer
you
in
the
briefest
way,
I
know
how
that
question.
But,
frankly
you
could
have
me
back
for
a
whole
other
hour
on
that
that
this
is
a
really
close
to
home.
For
me,
one
of
the
things
I'm
in
my
time
here
that
I
was
most
proud
of,
is
and
I
I,
don't
know
how
it's
done
yet
now
so
I,
don't
if
it's
changed,
I'm,
not
saying
anything
negative
about
anybody,
but
one
thing
I
was
very
proud
of.
D
There's
rarely,
in
fact,
Kentucky
really
is
one
of
the
few
states
that
has
a
single
Hub
that
allows
you
to
look
at
Workforce
and
Education
data
in
the
same
place,
a
lot
of
states,
the
Department
of
Labor
or
Commerce,
sits
over
here
to
the
side
and
that's
where
the
workforce
boards
sit.
So
they
don't
necessarily
integrate
with
the
education
system
a
whole
lot.
Some
and
this
drives
us
crazy
at
sreb,
use
different
data
sets,
so
education
will
use
a
data
set
to
say
here's
our
five
priorities
and
workforces
says
well.
D
A
F
A
Do
and
our
folks
do
a
great
job.
There
are
just
some
areas
that
I
I
think
that
we
really
need
to
focus
on
some
attention
with
marketing
of
those
programs.
I,
don't
know
how
how
well
they're
known
throughout
the
state,
especially
as
some
of
the
teacher
Workforce
scholarship
programs
or
those
that
are
already
have
bachelor's
degrees
that
are
already
in
college
that
maybe
they're
out
there
that
some
of
them
may
not
realize
that
there
are.
There
is
money
available
for
those
programs
for
adult
education
programs,
I.
A
And
I
would
I
would
love
to
see
us
just
Market,
Market
Market,
you
know,
take
some
of
those
Workforce
shortage
needs
and
to
help
boost
up,
maybe
some
of
the
applications
for
those
scholarships.
So
so
thank
you
for
your
time
today.
We
appreciate
it
and
we're
going
to
move
on
now
to
to
our
second
presenter
there's
not
any
more.
D
A
A
C
Well,
thank
you.
So
my
name
is
Frank
ballman
I'm
with
the
National
Association
of
State
student
grant
need
programs
and
we
are
the
40-something
state
agencies
that
provide
Grant
and
scholarship
Aid
to
students
across
the
country.
So
our
Kentucky
members,
the
Kentucky
higher
education,
assistance,
Authority
and
well,
first
of
all,
I
say:
Dr
prot
gave
a
great
presentation.
That's
a
tough
act
to
follow
and
I
think
his
closing
thoughts
slide.
I
was
busy
trying
to
write
them
all
down,
because
those
are
things
we
could
talk
about
all
day
and
all
night.
C
But
my
objective
days
kind
of
give
you
a
feel
for
nationally
how
states
are
doing,
but
but
first
of
all,
I
just
want
to
say
well.
I
I
wish
I
could
be
there
with
you
today
in
Kentucky
my
boss
told
me
that
every
dollar
you
spend
in
travel
is
one
less
dollar
for
student
grant
Aid,
but
I
am
very
familiar
with
Kentucky.
My
dad
was
born
and
raised
in
Cloverport
Kentucky,
which
is
I,
think
about
it's
closer
to
Owensboro
than
where
you
are
but
I've
been
back
there.
C
Many
times
and
I'm
also
familiar
with
the
challenges
of
setting
up
a
scholarship
program,
because
after
my
dad
died,
I
tried
to
set
up
a
scholarship
program
with
the
church.
He
grew
up
in
there
and
we
had
a
year
of
a
nursing
scholarship
and
he
wrote
a
teaching
scholarship
at
the
pastor,
changed
and
just
said.
Well,
this
is
too
much
work,
and
that
was
that,
so
it
it's.
C
C
C
So
Tennessee
promises
the
last
dollar
program
in
that
it
covers
all
of
the
costs.
After
your
federal
and
state
aid
is
awarded,
the
Indiana
program
is
what
we
call
a
first
dollar
program,
meaning
you
get
that
award
and
then
you
can
use
Pell
and
state
Grant
other
state
Grant
Aid.
On
top
of
that
to
maybe
get
past.
Just
tuition
also
cover
things
like
you
know,
room
and
board
or
books,
and
things
like
that.
C
C
Now
some
of
those
are
jobs
that
maybe
no
one
wants,
but
a
lot
of
them
are
jobs
that
require
a
certain
set
of
skills
that
you
know
the
workforce
doesn't
already
have,
so
they
need
to
get
a
degree
or
certificate
to
fill
those
jobs
and
I
I
think
you
talked
a
little
bit
during
Dr
Cruz
presentation
of
q,
a
about
helping
people
complete
it.
You
know
it's
not
just
about
access.
It's
about
completing
and
Tennessee
reconnect
and
other
programs
like
that.
C
So
I
always
tell
people
that
I
have
a
background
in
computer
science,
but
classes
I
took
in
college
are
for
programming
languages
that
can
only
be
used
as
a
Smithsonian
at
the
in
the
computers
that
are
behind
the
glass
there.
So
the
the
big
debate
sort
of
is
need-based
versus
we
call
it
non-need
based,
but
merit-based
is
probably
more
common.
C
That
being
said,
passing
a
program
requires
popular
support
and
simply
bipartisan
support,
so
that
definitely
suggests
at
least
having
program
that
is
going
to
help
a
lot
more
middle
class
students
go
to
college
at
the
end
of
the
day
as
Dr
Pruitt
once
get
alluded
to.
The
ultimate
goal
is
completion.
It's
not
just
access.
So
if
you're
getting
students
into
school
and
they're
stopping
out,
maybe
it's
time
to
consider
what
you
can
do
to
better
improve
retention
and
talking
about
southern
schools.
C
There's
a
program
in
Georgia
State
called
the
panther
retention,
Grant
programs
that
wasn't
really
state
funded,
except
indirectly,
since
that's
a
public
Institution,
but
it's
kind
of
an
emergency
grant
program
where
students
and
is
really
focusing
Juniors
and
seniors
if
they
had
something
come
up.
Like
their
car
broke
down,
they
couldn't
make
classes.
C
You
get
a
grant
to
pay
for
the
car
repair
to
keep
you
in
school.
The
the
other
big
consideration
in
Grants
and
scholarships
is,
you
know.
We
talked
about
this
a
little
bit
earlier.
Dr
Pruitt,
keeping
the
best
and
brightest
in
state,
so
I
think
that
is
sort
of
the
original
goal
of
the
Georgia
Hope
Scholarship
was
to
have
the
best
and
brightest
go
to
Georgia
colleges
and
institutions,
fire
red,
as
opposed
to
having
them
go
out
of
state
I
I.
C
Think
the
Nuance
to
give
some
thought
to
and
I
I
think
it
was
networks
in
Raleigh
mentioned
the
the
idea
of
back-end
Rewards
or
rewarding
students
for
graduation,
because
the
you
know,
if
you
give
someone
the
scholarship
and
they
graduate
and
then
they
leave
the
state
you
know
it's
like
well,
was
that
a
good
investment,
so
there
have
been
there's
been
some
experimentation
around.
How
do
you
keep
the
best
and
brightest
in
state?
C
All
the
loans
were
forgiven.
That
program
is
no
longer
around
part
of
it
was
the
people
who
didn't
graduate
on
time,
sometimes
were
unable
to
repay
the
loans
and
there's
nothing
more
painful
than
having
student
graduate
on
time
with
the
2.98
GPA
and
being
told
you
didn't
qualify,
there
are
some
other
states
that
have
what
some
people
in
Washington
DC
like
referred
to
as
groans,
which
are
grants
that
become
loans.
C
C
So
in
terms
of
how
programs
are
funded,
I
think
might
have
NASCAR
produces
an
annual
survey
report,
which
shows
in
a
lot
of
detail
how
eat
what
sorts
of
programs
each
state
runs
and
how
they're
funded
and
things
like
that.
We
only
talked
about
that.
The
funding
for
the
primary
need-based
program
in
that
particular
report.
So,
in
addition
to
the
states
that
that
Dr
Pruitt
mentioned
Nebraska,
Oregon
and
Missouri
also
have
Grant
programs
that
are
funded,
at
least
in
part
by
Lottery
funding.
C
I
mean
Illinois
had
a
study
from
many
years
ago
that
showed
each
dollar
of
need-based
Grant
produced
six
dollars
incremental
state
tax
revenue
and
that
doesn't
get
into
say
the
multiplier
effect
of
how
much
more
that
that
college
grad
spent
on
you
know
as
businesses
in
the
state
how
much
their
state
business
is
paid
in
state
income
taxes.
So
I
I
think
that
that's
kind
of
a
quick
overview
of
what
other
states
are
doing.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
Mr
Bowman.
Is
there
any
questions
anyone
has
for
Mr
bomb
all
right.
Thank
you,
sir.
Thank
you
for
joining
us
via
Zoom.
Thank
you
for
the
information
we
have
some
information
from
you
and
from
your
PowerPoint
to
review.
I
know,
there's
some
additional
numbers
at
the
back
of
the
handout
that
you
all
have
been
given
to
look
at
in
comparison
to
other
states.