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Description
Live Stream provided by LRC Staff
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A
First
item
of
business
here
is
a
discussion
of
the
regulations
that
went
into
effect
as
of
january
1st
of
2020,
and
some
emergency
wrecks
that
went
into
effect
on
july
2020.,
michael
wilson,
director
of
business
and
deputy
general
counsel
for
the
office
secretary
of
state
is
here
to
present.
So
the
floor
is
yours.
D
D
A
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D
D
There
you
go
yeah,
okay!
Is
it
visible?
Now?
Yes,
excellent,
okay,
all
right!
Well!
Thank
you
very
much.
I
appreciate
your
patience
while
I
was
bringing
that
up.
I'm
michael
wilson,
I
am
the
business
director
in
deputy
counsel
for
the
office
of
secretary
of
state
I'm
joined
today
with
by
jonah
ballinger
she's.
Our
notary
of
the
program
coordinator
and
mike
nichols
is
our
staff
assistant
and
mike
is
also
an
attorney
in
our
office.
D
The
regulation
is
30
kar
8
005
that
was
made
that
was
made
initially
by
an
emergency
regulation
also
this
morning
believe
in
ordinary
regulation.
The
emergency
regulation
was
in
all
respects,
identical
to
the
ordinary
regulation.
It
was
submitted
to
lrc
at
the
at
the
end
of
last
year
and
obviously,
we've
been
operating
in
a
very
interesting
environment
for
the
last
well
several
months
and
what
will
normally
get
the
functory.
E
A
C
D
Only
one
of
the
sections
in
senate
bill
150
addresses
notarial
acts.
Our
our
view
is
that
senate
bill
150
in
particular,
section
111,
a
and
b
that
discuss
the
use
of
counterparts
in
the
notarizing
of
documents
and
the
reference
to
witnessing
documents
do
not
alter
senate
bill.
114.
There's
no
inconsistency.
There's
senate
a
section,
1
subsection
11,
a
and
b
only
really
seem
to
authorize
the
witnessing
of
documents.
D
For
instance,
for
will's
signing
of
wills
to
satisfy
the
presence
requirement,
that's
an
important
provision,
because
during
a
self-approved
will
signing
the
witnesses
might
be
tempted
to
use
remote
technology
as
a
notary
would.
But
in
the
absence
of
that
particular
section
in
central
150,
there
could
be
a
grounds
for
invalidating
a
will
where
the
witnesses
are
not
in
the
physical
presence
where
the
witnesses
are
not
in
the
physical
presence
of
the
testator.
D
There
is
an
important
case.
It's
a
common
law
requirement
presence
does
mean
physical
presence
in
the
same
room.
So
that
was
an
important
feature,
but
it
does
not
materially
alter
the
authority
for
a
notary
to
notarize
a
document
remotely
the
authority
for
for
remote
notarization
in
senate
bill
114
appears
at
krs-423,
455
and
other
features
for
remote
electronic
notarizations
throughout
senate
bill
114,
which
are
now
codified
in
other
areas.
D
But
there
is
no
distinction
between
originals
duplicates
and
counterparts
in
senate
bill
114.
There
does
not
appear
to
be
any
effect
on
witnessing
documents.
Obviously,
as
I
mentioned,
that
that's
an
important
feature
of
certain
documents
to
be
formalized
particularly
self-proved
wills,
but
that
that
does
not.
That
does
not
affect
the
notarization
requirements
there.
D
D
That
answer
is
a
notary,
public
or
other
material
officer,
and
that
also
extends
to
county
clerks
of
specifically,
if
a
notary
tries
to
notarize
a
document
in
which
the
notary
himself
or
herself
has
an
interest
or
a
family
member
has
an
interest.
The
no
the
notarization
is
is
voidable,
but
it's
not
void,
and
there
is.
There
is
legal
distinction
to
be
made
there,
but
that
is
the
fact
that
the
notarization
is
not
itself
invalid.
D
That
does
not
mean
that
the
the
underlying
act,
whatever
might
be
contained
in
the
notarized
document.
If
it's
an
affidavit,
for
instance,
it
doesn't
doesn't
insulate
that
document
from
collateral
attack
in
a
court
of
law.
The
court
can
still
find
the
statements
in
a
in
a
an
affidavit
or
false
that
sort
of
thing
that
should
be
fairly
obvious
to
most
attorneys.
D
The
significance,
however,
is
that
it's
possible
that
if
a
notary
remotely
notarizes
a
document
that
if,
in
fact
the
notary
fails
to
properly
identify
an
individual
who
would
be
signing
a
document,
an
affidavit,
a
promissory
note.
Something
like
that
that
if
someone
is
harmed
by
that
act,
that
there
could
be
liability
of
the
notary
for
failing
to
perform
the
duties
related
to
proper
identification,
which
I'll
cover
in
just
a
little
bit,
and
we
currently
require
only
a
thousand
dollar
bond.
D
I
don't
know
anecdotally
how
often
a
notary
is
sued
or
failing
to
identify
a
party
at
closing
or
something
along
those
lines.
I'd
assume
it's
fairly
rare,
given
the
very
low,
relatively
low
bond
requirement
that
we
require
by
statute,
but
it's
possible
that
there
may
be
some
liability
of
a
notary
if
they
fail
to
comply
with
the
requirements
of
senate
bill
114
and
I've
cited
a
case.
D
So,
who
is
authorized
to
perform
material
acts?
Obviously
a
notary
public
is
one
of
those
individuals,
the
most
obvious
person
who
would
notarize
something
as
a
notary
public.
A
notary
public
is
a
person.
Who's
received
a
commission
to
fill
a
public
office.
Some
people
may
be
surprised
to
know
that
a
notary
public
is
a
type
of
office.
It's
referenced
in
the
kentucky
constitution,
section
165
obliquely
as
being
an
office,
that's
not
incompatible
with
other
certain
constitutional
offices.
D
We
we
issue
a
four-year
term
to
that
office
under
423
390,
subsection
three,
and
so
it
is
not
it's
not
like
a
a
licensed.
You
know
professional
license
or
something
along
those
lines.
It
is,
in
fact,
a
public
office
and
we
have
received
questions
for
notary
saying
you
know
my
notary
commission
is
about
to
expire.
D
Just
let
me
know
so,
as
I
mentioned,
the
the
notary
public
office
to
fill
the
office
or
to
assume
that
office
has
to
be
conducted
in
person,
and
that's
that
is
directly
from
the
statute,
so
you
have
to
once
once
the
application
to
be
a
notary
public
is
approved
by
the
secretary
of
state.
We
issue
the
commission
to
the
county
clerk
and
the
individual
will
then
go
to
the
county
clerk's
office
to
present
their
one
thousand
dollar
surety
bond
and
to
take
the
oath
of
office
just
like
any
other
constitutional
office.
D
And
that
can
be
that
can
be
done
in
person
it's
supposed
to
be
done
within
30
days,
although
there
is
an
attorney
general
opinion
that
says
that
if
it
can't
be
filled
within
30
days
after
the
commission
is
issued,
the
commission
doesn't
expire,
but
the
notary
must
make
reasonable
efforts
to
fill
the
office
or
assume
the
office
as
soon
as
possible,
and
that's
the
guidance
that
we've
we
have
been
grant
we've
been
giving
to
the
county
clerks
when
they
ask
about
that
or
to
notaries
due
to
coronavirus
restrictions.
So
many
county
clerks
offices
were
closed.
D
D
So
who
else
is
a
person
authorized
to
perform
in
the
material
act?
You
also
have
a
reference
to
a
special
commission
in
423
110,
subsection,
five.
That
appears
to
be
a
vestige
of
old
law
when
the
governor
used
to
appoint
notaries
public,
and
there
is
a
reference
to
performing
notarial
acts
in
or
outside
of
this
state
for
recordation
in
this
state
we
still
have
some
requests.
D
D
So,
in
addition
to
notary
public,
a
special
commission
notary
county
clerks
are
authorized
to
perform
notarial
acts
when
performing
official
duties
pursuant
to
423-340
and
certain
state
officials
can
perform
notarial
act
by
virtue
of
their
office.
There
are
a
few
commissioners
of
various
executive
agencies
who
can
take
testimony
under
oath
and
certify
that,
and
also
in
423
345.
D
D
So
we
actually
record
those
directions
and,
of
course,
the
copies
it's
important
to
know
that
you
know
we
keep
original
document
they're
certifying
that
the
copy
of
the
original
is
is
true
and
correct.
That's
an
important
distinction.
The
notary
may
have
no
knowledge
of
whether
the
document
that
they're
certifying
is
true,
but
they
they
can
certify.
The
copy
is
true,
correct
and
then
it's
more
obscure,
but
perhaps
for
for
commercial
paper
protests
of
negotiable
instruments.
D
So,
as
I
mentioned,
we
implemented
this
regulation
as
30
kar,
8
chapter
8,
section
5..
Initially,
it's
been
an
emergency
and
the
emergency
was
identical
to
the
ordinary
regulation
that
went
through
the
administrative
review
subcommittee
and
it
we
have
made
some
changes
to
it,
based
on
feedback
from
notaries,
especially
over
the
last
several
months.
D
The
regulation
consists
of
eight
different
sections.
The
one
that
is
reflects
the
difference
between
a
tangible
record
is
in
an
electronic
record
is,
is
basically
an
electronic
record.
You
have
to
have
electricity
to
perceive
it,
whereas
a
tangible
record,
you
don't
you
could
use
candlelight
and
you
would
be
able
to
read
a
tangible
record.
That
seems
fairly
obvious
and
we
hope
that
that
clarifies
a
routine
question
we
received,
which
was
what
what's
the
difference
between
an
electronic
record
and
a
tangible
record.
D
Sometimes
these
terms
are
used
and
it's
difficult,
it's
difficult
to
distinguish
them
and
that's
what
we've
that's,
essentially
what
we
have
now
promulgated
through
a
definition,
and
we
think
that's
that's
helpful.
As
we
have
sat
around
mike
john
and
I
have
have
discussed
questions
that
can
be
somewhat
abstract.
D
For
instance,
you
know
when
someone
signs
a
document
using
an
electronic
signature
pad
at
a
bank.
You
know.
Is
that
a
is
that
an
intangible
record,
or
is
it
the
electronic
record
when
it's
printed
out-
and
I
can
give
you
answers
to
those?
But
you
know
we
will
we'll
discuss
some
of
that
length
a
little
bit
later
and
then
finally,
section
8
is
notary
discipline,
as
I
mentioned.
If
a
notary
fails
to
perform
some
of
the
technical
requirements
of
senate
bill
114,
they
could
theoretically
be
disciplined.
D
This
is
a
new
feature
to
the
secretary
of
state's
office.
In
the
past.
We
have
not
taken
discipline
against
a
notary.
We
still
have
not
done
that.
Sometimes
people
will
complain
and
there
is
a
process
now
for
complaints
to
be
reviewed
and
investigated,
and
we
have
the
statutory
authority
to
take
notary
discipline.
We've
incorporated
the
standards
of
krs
chapter
13,
be
the
administrative
hearing
chapter
so
that
if
we
do
take
action
and
never
even
have
the
right
to
a
hearing.
D
This
is
a
very
simple
overview
of
what
is
included
in
the
notary
public
application
process.
The
notary,
of
course,
has
to
fill
out
the
application
and
confirm
that
they
are
eligible
to
be
a
notary
that
they
can
read
and
write
english
they're
over
18.
They
don't
have
any
felony
convictions
or
convictions
involving
fraud,
dishonesty
or
deceit.
D
D
So
this
is
the
slide
that
addresses
the
notary
discipline
provision.
This
one
was
one
that
caused
some
some
conversation
in
our
office.
As
I
mentioned,
it
is
an
office
to
be
a
notary
public
and
we've
never
tried
to
revoke
a
commission
before,
but
but
there
the
statute
does
give
that
authority
and
we
are.
We
are
promulgating
standards
for
notary
discipline.
D
I
believe
in
kentucky
roughly
at
any
one
time
and
that
they
could
be
the
types
of
officers
that
would
be
subject
to
impeachment,
and
we
don't
mean
to
suggest
that
that's
the
case,
but
it's
not
real
clear
on
who
can
revoke
an
office
like
that.
It's
not
an
office,
that's
conferred
by
the
governor
and
impeachment's,
at
least
statutory
is
not
required
for
those
officers
who
serve
the
pleasure
of
the
governor.
So
it
is
something
we've
talked
about.
D
I
have
reviewed
the
slides
from
last
year
that
the
secretary
of
state's
office
prepared,
and
there
were
three
recognized
methods
of
notarization.
There
is,
of
course,
the
in-person
traditional,
where
a
person
personally
appears
before
the
notary
and
does
the
subject
of
the
notarial
act.
It's
the
traditional
method,
as
I
mentioned,
there's
the
requirement
to
personally
appear.
D
D
You
have
to
be
a
registered
online
notary
public,
as
I
mentioned,
and
that's
covered
in
section
three
of
our
regulation
currently,
and
it
requires
the
most
prominent
features
are
that
you
have
to
have
a
digital
certificate
with
a
registered
technology
provider
and
I'll
discuss
what
a
digital
certificate
is
just
in
just
a
minute,
so
the
remote,
tangible
record
notarization.
Sometimes
it's
referred
to
as
ren.
I
didn't
realize
that
until
I
received
a
I
participated
in
the
conference
remotely
with
some
members
of
the
banking
community
and
it
sort
of
speaks
for
itself.
D
That's
basically
where
someone
signs
a
document
with
inc
and
then
is
able
to
transmit
an
image
of
that
or
the
document
itself
by
mail
and
and
have
it
attached
to
a
notary
certificate.
The
notary
can
connect
with
someone
remotely
and
say.
Is
this
your
signature
and
the
individual
can
say?
Yes,
it
is,
and
then
that
would
serve
as
a
valid
acknowledgement.
D
So
for
remote,
tangible
record
notarization,
you
will
use
communication
technology
as
a
substitute
for
personal
appearance.
As
I
mentioned,
some
people
have
asked
us.
This
is
one
of
the
most
common
questions
we've
received
in
march
is.
Can
I
use
facetime?
Facetime
is
a
very
useful
app
on
iphones
and
you
can
easily
see
somebody
and
talk
to
them,
but
unfortunately
it
does
not
include
the
capability
to
record
and
recording
is
one
of
the
requirements
by
statute.
D
You
have
to
be
able
to
record
through
audio
visual
technology,
and
you
have
to
unfortunately
maintain
that
for
10
years,
and
that
is
the
other
thing
that
some
notaries
are
displeased
about.
Is
the
requirement
to
maintain
that
for
10
years,
but
it
serves
as
evidence
that
the
whoever
it
was
that
swore
something
was
their
signature
later
on.
If
it's
questioned
is
in
fact
the
person
who
said
it
was
said
that
was
their
signature,
remote,
tangible
record,
notarization
or
remote
ink
notarization
is
extremely
popular.
D
D
The
statutory
term
tangible
record
is
now
defined
in
section
one
of
the
regulation.
If
you
have
in
front
of
you,
you
can
see
it
very
easily,
very
simple
it.
It
basically
includes
duplicates
of
an
original
that
do
not
require
electricity.
It's
basically
a
well
I'll.
Just
I'll.
Just
read
it:
if
people
don't
have
it.
A
D
Tangible
record
means
information
contained
in
or
on
a
medium,
whether
an
original
or
duplicate
that
can
be
perceived
without
the
requirement
of
electricity,
whereas
an
electronic
record
stays
in
an
electronic
format.
That's
the
whole.
That's
the
whole
idea
and
I'll
explain
why
that
is
in
just
a
minute
the
benefits
of
having
an
electronic
record,
and
there
were
questions
of
whether
you
could
have
a
notarization
of
a
document
that
would
be.
D
That
would
not
include
an
original
and
mike,
and
I
took
a
look
at
this
and,
of
course,
attorneys
who
have
trial
practice
know
the
best
evidence.
Rule
has
been
watered
down
over
the
years
and
essentially
now
in
rule
1003
of
the
federal
and
kentucky
rules
of
evidence
recognize
that
a
duplicate
of
an
original
is
just
as
good
as
the
original.
Unless
there's
some
question
about
the
authenticity
of
the
copy,
and
so
we
feel
very
comfortable
with
with
that-
and
it's
also
significant,
because
the
uniform
electronic
transactions
act
has
definition
of
electronic
record.
D
Chapter
423
to
make
things
harder
for
people
perhaps
more
secure.
But
you
know
we
don't
see
anything
incompatible
with
allowing
an
original
or
duplicate
as
part
of
a
tangible
record.
If
it's
in
your
hand,
it
really
shouldn't
matter
whether
it's
the
original
document
or
a
copy
of
an
original,
especially
if
the
rules
of
evidence
would
treat
them
with
equal
weight.
D
D
This
has
probably
caused
the
most
delay
and
the
most
frustration
in
those
questions
throughout
this
process.
When
notaries
have
said,
I
want
to
be
able
to
do
an
electronic
notarization.
Here
is
my
electronic
signature,
and
here
is
my
certificate.
That's
attached
and
we
find
it's
a
copy
of
the
notaries
commission
certificate
and
a
digital
certificate
is
not
a
copy
of
the
commission
certificate.
D
So
there's
a
there's,
it's
basically
a
cryptographic
method
of
assuring
the
the
identity
of
an
individual
who
has
a
certificate
and
adobe.
Of
course,
the
famous
software
maker
keeps
a
list
of
their
approved
trustless
members,
ironically
adobe
itself,
even
though
issues
digital
certificates
is
not
on
their
own
list,
adobe
does
issue
digital
certificates.
If
you
have
adobe
pro
or
something
you
can
have
a
digital
certificate,
but
it's
considered
self-signed
and
because
it's
self-signed,
it's
not
it
can't
be
authenticated
by
third
party.
D
But
these
are.
These
are
the
these?
Are
the
third-party
certificate
authorities
that
can
validate
digital
certificates?
That
notaries
use
and
they're
doing
an
electronic
notarization.
These
are
the
origins
and
I'll
show
you
a
copy
of
a
sample
where
you
can.
You
can
kind
of
see
the
information
on
one
of
these
just
bear
with
me
one.
Second,
I'm
going
to
exit
the
screen.
D
Okay,
so
this
is
an
example
of
a
notary.
It
actually
includes
two
different
things:
it
includes
the
stamp
which
is
voluntary
under
senate
bill
114.
You
don't
have
to
have
a
stamp,
but
you
know
a
lot
of
people
like
them.
They
look
more
official
and
you
can
see
that
there
is
in
that
little
box
that
says
valid
signature,
and
so
adobe
is
recognizing
that
this
is
a
valid
signature
up
here
you
can
see
it's
a
sign
and
all
signatures
are
valid.
D
This
treats
the
stamp
as
its
own
electronic
signature
and
as
well
as
a
sample
of
the
electronic
signature
itself,
the
facsimile
signature
most
people
would
consider
to
be
in
an
actual
signature,
and
if
you
click
on
it,
you
can
see
that
it
states
again.
The
signature
is
valid.
It's
signed
by
fabaso
pavaso
is
one
of
the
technology
providers.
D
It
also
states.
The
document
has
not
been
modified
since
the
signature
was
applied
and
the
signature's
identity
is
valid
and
you
can
actually
go
into
the
signature
properties
and
you
can
get
a
lot
more
information.
Some
of
this
information
is
well
beyond
our
particular
knowledge,
but
you
can
you
can
get
into
some
of
the
advanced
properties
of.
D
D
Some
of
the
participants
today
may
be
experts
on
that,
and
they
certainly
can
share
more
information
on
that.
The
x-509
line
reference
there
is
is
the
type
of
methodology
I
believe
that
is
most
standard
for
this
type
of
public
and
private
key
pairing,
and
that
is
a
standard
that's
now
featured
within
our
regulation.
That
corresponds
with
the
requirement
that
these
documents
be
tamper
evident,
and
that
is
an
assurance
that
this
document
has
not
been
tampered
with,
as
it's
reflected
manifestly
on
on
the
face
of
its
side
and
signatures
are
valid
everything
else.
D
If
a
if
a
signature
is
not
valid,
it
will
have
a
different
line
here,
but
this
is
the
type
of
document
we
receive
from
notaries
who
are
registering
to
perform
electronic
notarizations,
and
these
are
the
these
two
things.
These
two
boxes
here,
the
stamp
and
the
most
importantly,
this
signature
here
will
be
featured
in
a
notary
certificate
when
they're
performing
in
electronic
notarization.
C
Michael
while
you're
transitioning
back
there
a
quick
question,
this
is
mark
ladd
from
simplified,
on
that
example
that
you
just
showed
the
digital
certificate
was
registered
to
havaso
and
not
necessarily
the
individual
notary
is
is
was
am
I
was
I
seeing
that
correctly
and
that's
that's
a
very
common
way
that
it's
done.
I
was
just
wanting
to
clarify,
I
think,
that's
probably.
D
D
C
C
That
bottom
path
would
have
the
individual's
name
yeah
and
then
there
there
are
two
options
that
we
see
in
the
in
in
use
in
the
marketplace,
and
one
is
kind
of
that
system
level
where
it's
it's.
It's
traced
to
pavaso
and
then
pavaso
knows
that
that
particular
notary
used
the
certificate,
but
it
was
actually
applied
and
by
the
system
and
is
owned
by
the
system
owner
in.
In
this
example,
pavaso,
there
are
there's
another
model
that
says
the
individual
notary
has
to
apply
for
and
obtain
their
own
certificate.
C
D
Well,
we've
accepted
both
and
we
have
seen
both
haven't
yeah.
It's
taken
me
a
second
to
refresh
my
memory.
I've
seen
many
of
these.
This
particular
gentleman
does
not
appear
to
have
have
that
key
assigned
to
him,
but
we've
seen
it
both
ways,
and
obviously
we've
accepted
this
one.
The
important
feature
is
that
the
the
digital
certificate
indicates
that
it
hasn't
been
tampered
with
right
and
that
the
the
digital
certificate
was
issued
by
a
trusted
certificate
authority.
D
D
It's
just
a
sample,
but
on
an
actual
notarized
record
you
would
see
a
similar
box
and
if
you
hover
your
mouse
over
it,
if
you're
reading,
if
you're
reading
the
pdf
that
has
been
electronically
signed
with
the
digital
certificate,
it'll
show
all
that
information
using
a
pdf
reader
adobe's
the
most
common,
because
it's
free
and
it's
ubiquitous,
but
there
are
other
readers
and
they
should
reflect
the
same.
The
same
information.
D
D
D
D
The
department
of
defense
apparently
has
its
own
certificate
authority
that
issues
and
there's
some
other
public
key
infrastructure
from
the
united
states
government.
These
are
all
the
us-based
ones.
There
are
other
ones
around
the
world,
but
the
ones
we
see
most
often
are
digicert,
and
I
didn't
trust
is
those
that
issue
the
the
written
key.
D
D
The
requirements
of
section
four
are
common
to
both
in-person
and
remote
electronic
record
notarization.
As
I
mentioned,
electronic
notarization
is
a
subset
of
notarial
acts,
performed
with
respect
to
electronic
records.
Both
require
the
use
of
the
tamper
evidence
technology,
which
we
have
interpreted
and
now
promulgated
standards
for
using
the
digital
certificate
requirements.
The
x-509
technology.
D
Section
5
is
specific
only
to
electronic
notarizations,
and
that
is
that
includes
the
identity
proofing
requirements.
Strangely
enough
and
one
of
the
things
that
brought
it
to
our
attention
that
there
actually
are
separate
provisions,
one
for
electronic
remote
notarizations
and
one
for
remote,
ink,
notarizations
or
tangible,
remote,
tangible
authorizations,
is
that
they
have
separate
identity
proofing
requirements.
D
The
identity
proofing
requirements
that
are
applicable
to
electronic
notarizations
are
in
section
five
and
those
are
derived
from
keras
423,
325
c
the
electronic
notarizations.
As
I
mentioned,
those
are
the
preferred
method
for
most
title
companies
and
mortgage
companies.
I
believe
somebody
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
that's
that's
sort
of
what
we
understand
there.
There
was
a
lack
of
of
notaries
in
kentucky
for
a
while
who
who
could
perform
those
real
estate
closings
electronically
and
we've
had
to
work
through
that
with
their
notaries
to
make
that
possible.
D
But
my
understanding
is
that
the
the
banks
prefer
to
have
these
files
that
have
these
digital
certificates
and
they're
signed
by
online
notaries,
regardless
of
where
they're
or
it's
just
sort
of
a
uniform
process.
It's
preferable
in
that
regard,
attorneys
on
the
other
hand,
and
other
people
really
like
the
use
of
remote
ink
notarizations.
As
I
mentioned,
the
rules
of
evidence
do
not
appear
to
be
any
problem
for
that,
and
we
have
accommodated
that.
D
C
D
D
That
may
be
somewhat
unnecessary
if
you
are
recording
the
actual
notarial
act
itself,
a
person
signing
a
document
or
acknowledging
your
signature.
Whatever
the
case
may
be,
you
have
a
recording
of
it
and
that's
a
central
feature
of
the
journal
requirement,
but
traditionally,
under
some
state's
common
law,
they
were
required
as
a
duty
of
care
to
maintain
a
journal
to
make
entries
in
that,
and
that's
now
reflected
at
least
for
these
types
of
electronic
notarizations.
D
D
D
I
believe
it
does
yeah
and
specifically
some
of
the
technology
providers
that
provide
the
platform
for
electronic
notarizations.
I
believe
that
that's
that's
that's
part
of
the
package.
I
think
they.
I
will
actually
keep
that
for
you
yeah
mike
just
confirmed
that
yeah.
So
yeah,
that's
an
option.
That's
an
option.
It's
important
that
the
10-year
requirement
is
is
true
both
for
the
remote
electronic
notarizations
and
the
remote
tangible
notarizations.
D
Both
of
them
have
to
keep
that
for
10
years,
but
after
we've
explained
it
to
some
of
our
attorneys
and
said,
look
you're,
probably
better
off
for
it.
You
have
a
recording,
it's
kind
of
a
pain,
but
you
know
it's
statutory.
It's
not
something
that
that
we're
now
requiring
is
something
you
know,
most
attorneys
and
and
others
that
use
that
technology
are
satisfied
with
that.
D
So
this
is
a
comparison.
As
I
mentioned,
there
are
actually
two
different
standards
for
the
identification
of
a
remotely
located
individual
423.4
and
423.
325
are
the
standards
for
identification
that
govern
a
remote,
tangible
notarization,
and
they
include
personal
knowledge,
of
course,
if,
if
a
notary
personally
knows
another
individual
that
they're
engaging
with
using
communication
technology,
that's
acceptable,
it's
always
been
acceptable.
D
D
Presumably
objectively
credible
someone
that,
because
of
their
reputation
or
because
of
their,
you
know
not
real
clear
but
that,
but
that
would
be
an
acceptable
means
if
somebody
essentially
vouches
for
somebody
else
who
would
be
the
the
individual.
That's
the
subject
of
the
notarial
act
and
then,
of
course
it
relates
back
to.
If
you
don't
have
personal
knowledge,
and
you
don't
have
a
credible
witness
who
will
take
an
oath
and
swear
someone
is
who
they
say
they
are.
D
The
requirements
for
identification
of
a
remote
electronic
notarization
are
are
very
similar,
except
there
is
no
opportunity
to
use
a
credible
witness
that
that's
that's
a
distinction
between
the
remote,
tangible
motorization
product
organization
and
presumably
a
remote
electronic
motorization
could
be
for
a
complete
stranger,
more
often
than
someone
who
is
using
zoom
to
notarize
something
for
someone.
They
know
in
a
pinch
and
the
remote
electronic
notarization
identification
requirements
are,
of
course,
again
personal
knowledge.
D
If
the
notary
knows
the
individual,
who
is
the
subject
of
the
notarial
act
or
satisfactory
evidence
which
is
defined
as
government
id
with
a
photo
and
signature,
something
called
credential
analysis,
which
is
a
process
that
some
vendors,
for
example,
lexisnexis,
can
take
a
look
at
someone's,
photo
id
and
compare
it
with
the
database.
They
have
of
similar
ids
from
that
jurisdiction
that
issued
it
or
the
government
initiative
and
can
determine
whether
it's
valid
or
not.
D
They
have
a
very
sophisticated
software
and
have
somewhat
shocking
records
on
virtually
every
person,
and
they
can
figure
out.
If
you
are
who
you
say,
you
are
the
the
last
type
of
specifically
mentioned
satisfactory.
Evidence
is
something
called
dynamic:
knowledge
based
authentication
assessment,
which
is
a
mouthful,
but
basically
what
it
amounts
to
is
a
pop
quiz
on
yourself.
What
street
did
you
grow
up
on?
D
And
so
that
has
been
a
challenge.
I
haven't
heard
of
an
example
when
that's
actually
happened
and
closing
was
not
able
to
occur,
even
though
there
was
no
doubt
that
the
individual
who
failed
their
own
assessment
was
who
they
say
they
were,
but
that
is
a
possibility
and
that's
just
kind
of
an
unfortunate
side
effect
of
the
security.
That's
that's
been
included
in
the
statute.
D
These
are
a
list,
an
exhaustive
list
of
the
currently
approved
technology
providers.
Many
of
you
are
familiar
with
them
because
some
of
you
actually
work
for
them.
Notarycam.Verify
doc
verify
was
the
first
platform
that
authorized
notaries
to
use
without
restrictions
and
conditions,
and
notary
could
use
that
sort
of
as
plug-and-play
technology.
D
D
Slides
so
this
is
the
these
are
some
of
the
things
that
we
kind
of
see
out
there
there's
currently
pending
in
congress,
a
a
federal
bill
that
may
be
attached
to
one
of
the
coronavirus
packages
called
the
secure
act.
Some
of
the
features
would
temporarily
federalize
notarizations
that
are
conducted
in
interstate
commerce.
D
One
of
the
things
that's
somewhat
odd
is
that
federal
law
would
require
the
use
of
stamps
kentucky
law
expressly
says
stamps
are
voluntary
and
it's
quite
possible
that
if
a
notary
notarized
a
document,
if
this,
if
the
secure
act
were
enacted
by
congress,
there
would
be
a
question
over
the
validity
of
an
otherwise
perfectly
acceptable.
Notarization
that
omitted
a
stamp
because
notary
is
not
required
to
use
a
stamp
under
state
law.
D
But
if
a
notary,
notarized
a
document
and
that
document
became
the
subject
of
some
kind
of
litigation
or
an
adversary,
proceeding
in
bankruptcy,
then
all
of
a
sudden
stamps
become
very
relevant
and
it
seems
kind
of
absurd
to
think
that
that
would
invalidate
a
document.
But
if
it
is
a
document
that
is
the
subject
of
bankruptcy
litigation
and
certainly
falls
within
interstate
commerce.
D
I
could
see
problems
arising
where
lenders
are
not
getting
the
benefit
of
what
they
were
expecting
when
they
made
a
loan
all
because
of
the
failing
of
one
notary
to
use
a
stamp,
that's
not
required
under
state
law,
but
could
be
required
to
be
used
temporarily
under
federal
law.
That's
that
that
could
create
a
lot
of
headaches
for
a
lot
of
people
and
that's
certainly
something
that
people
should
be
aware
of,
and
notaries
should
be
aware
of
as
well.
D
D
It's
confusing,
because
you
could
assume
that
an
electronic
notarization
refers
to
a
notarization
of
an
electronic
record,
both
in
person
and
remotely,
but
in
fact
it
actually
refers
to
a
notarization
of
an
electronic
record
only
remotely
using
technology.
To
do
that,
and
of
course,
we
would
also
recommend
the
replacement
of
that
term
and
the
term
initial
online
notarial
act,
which
appears
only
once
in
423
with
the
term
remote
electronic
motorization.
D
114
acknowledgments
are
already
covered
and
it's
not
necessary
to
to
still
have
those
sections,
and
we
would
also
recommend
repealing
423
110,
which
is
the
section
that's
sort
of
a
vestige
of
old
notary
law.
It
refers
to
the
recognition
of
material
acts
performed
outside
of
kentucky
it's
now
obsolete
by
423,
345
and
350,
which
discussed
the
exact
same
thing.
I
think
that
may
have
been
an
oversight,
but
certainly
something
that
we
could
use
to
clean
to
clean
up
the
chapter
423
going
forward
in
another
legislative
session.
E
C
E
For
the
first
time,
and
then
on
top
of
that,
we
actually
went
after
and
got
the
guy's
bond
too,
that
was
kind
of
a
sweet
victory
here
locally.
I
just
thought
you'd
like
to
know
that
my
question
for
you
is,
if
I
remember
correctly
in
our
original
legislation
and
I
apologize
for
the
sirens-
we
had
an
aspect
in
there
that
would
would
require
notaries
to
be
trained
or
something
or
have
training
from
the
secretary
of
state's
office.
Do
you.
C
E
Have
any
plans
to
put
something
online
there
we
still
get
questions
at
the
field
level
as
well,
particularly
about
papering
out
and
that
cover
sheet
that's
required.
That's
not
a
may.
That's
a
shallow
for
recording
requirements.
Those
kinds
of
things
as
well
as
the
myriad
of
things
you've
brought
up
in
your
presentation
today
could
maybe
be
mitigated
at
least
slightly
by
training
our
notaries
with
maybe
an
online
video,
or
something
like
that.
You
don't
have
any
plans
to
do
that.
D
We
we
have
certainly
discussed
providing
some
some
training
similar
to
the
format
that
we
have
here,
potentially
making
it
a
cle
for
attorneys
to
become
our
head
above
water
questions.
We've
been
getting
and
also
being
able
to
respond
to
some
of
the
really
technical
questions,
but
we
do
anticipate
doing
that
in
the
future
and
we
may
use
this
particular
presentation
and
sort
of
tailor
it
to
an
audience
for
notaries.
Specifically,
there's
no
requirement
in
the
statute
statute
to
to
take
a
test
or
anything
like
that.
D
Reloana
does
contemplate
an
examination
and
some
states
require
required,
but
that
just
wasn't
a
feature
of
senate
bill
114,
but
certainly
we
you
know.
We
would
like
to
to
to
give
a
presentation
like
this
to
notaries
and
and
on
the
other
point
for
the
the
individual
whose
notary
commission
was
revoked.
D
I
talked
to
john
about
that,
because
jonah
remembers
that
and
her
recollection
is
that
the
notary,
in
that
case
as
part
of
a
plea
bargain,
was
required
to
to
surrender
their
notary
commission,
and
so
so
they
they
voluntarily
did
that
as
part
of
a
plea
bargain,
but
our
office
itself
has
not
revoked
one.
So
far
at
least
I
can
see
him.
E
D
We've
received
a
few
complaints
more
often
than
not
it's
a
family
member
complaining
about
another
family
member
who
notarized
something
and
as
I
mentioned,
those
types
of
notarizations
are
avoidable,
and
so
you
know
we're
we're
referring
them
to
that
that
section
for
some
relief,
but
you
know
we'll
be
looking
we'll
be
looking
for
violations
like
that,
potentially
taking
some
action
going
forward
and
we're
going
to
be
we're
going
to
be
forging
a
new
path.
What
discipline
notary
discipline
looks
like
right.
E
We,
the
clerks,
were
partially
responsible
for
pushing
for
that.
We
see
a
lot
of
notorious
fraud,
particularly
with
motor
vehicle
transactions,
is
what
we
usually
see,
and
you
know
it's.
The
small
buy
here
pay
here,
lots
that
are
just
trying
to
cut
corners
most
of
the
time.
It's
not
true.
Fraud,
they're,
just
they're,
not
taking
the
time
to
do
the
documentation
correctly,
but
it
does
get
tiresome
because
you
can
tell
that
the
same
handwriting
is
on
both
sides
of
the
back
of
the
title
during
a
sale
of
a
car.
A
A
It's
an
excellent
tutorial
and
very
helpful
as
we
go
forward,
especially
the
proposed
the
necessary
proposed
changes
to
the
to
the
statutes
that
you
proposed.
We
will
include
that
in
our
report
to
the
legislature
in
january.
Our
next
presenter
is
debbie
donnelly
who
has
an
update
on
county
clerk
e-filing
operations.
B
B
A
B
And
prior
to
the
first
e-recording,
you
have
to
follow
the
steps
to
be
completed.
You
have
to
sign
mou
agreements
with
the
vendors
and
the
vendors
that
we
chose
to
sign
with
with
simplifier
epn
and
csc,
and
then
you
have
to
select
your
ach
payment
deposit
agreements
and
those
are
completed
with
three
three
vendors.
B
B
The
detailed
banking
report,
which
I
sent
you
all
a
copy
of
our
thank
you
to
the
report
just
so
you
can
see
that
and
it's
really
worked
well.
We've
we've
really
been
pleased
with
the
e-recording
and
honestly,
since
it's
pandemic,
it's
really
been
helpful.
We
have
a
lot
of
local
attorneys
to
that
have
been
e-filing
also
now.
What
we
did
also
is
to
show
you,
through
our
cox
systems,
that
we
have
our
daily
detail
receipts
report.
B
You
have
that
in
front
of
you
and
it
gives
you
a
breakdown
of
how
many
checks
your
cash
payments,
your
receipt
totals
and
excuse
me,
your
credit
cards
and
then
your
e-recording.
What
you're
supposed
to
have.
So
you
have
a
check
and
balance
of
what
you
should
be
receiving
in
your
checking
account
that
night
from
the
vendors.
B
And
electronic
notarization
on
e-recorded
documents.
You
can
see
that
that
in
michael
wilson
he
did
an
excellent
presentation
with
the
notarization
of
the
electronic
notarizations
under
recorded
documents
and
the
what
I
gave
you
an
example
too
also
is
a
recorded
document.
You
have
to
put
that
on
the
label
on
your
first
page
of
the
document.
B
We
also
have
a
rejection
document
that
we
send
back
if
we
reject
a
document
for
any
reason,
and
it
could
be
like
the
grantor's
mailing
address,
which
has
to
be
on
a
document
grantees
mailing
address,
your
back
references
has
to
be
notarized.
If
it's
missing
any
signatures,
consideration
certificate,
the
legal
description.
B
B
E
We
have
not,
and
I'm
missing
out
on
the
boat,
not
just
on
the
front
end
like
you're.
Talking
about
the
other
thing
that
the
covet
crisis
has
exposed
to
my
office
is.
I
would
really
like
to
be
able
to
give
copies
out
online
and
be
paid
for
them,
similar
to
what
a
lot
of
the
small
counties
are
already
doing,
but
I
don't
have
that
capability
either
and
that
would
have
prevented
a
lot
of
people
needing
to
come
into
the
office.
E
B
Yes,
you're
absolutely
right,
everything's
falling
at
one
time
for
us,
including
tax
bills,
we've
got
to
get
tax
bills
out,
so
we've
got
a
lot
going
on
at
the
county,
clerk's
offices
right
now,
so
this
is
a
win-win
situation
and,
like
I
said,
more,
clerk's
offices
will
be
getting
on
board
here
soon.
So
again,
I
want
to
thank
the
legislators
for
passing
this
law
and
and
for
all
your
help.
C
Debbie
this
is
deborah
stanford.
If
I
could
make
a
comment
about
your
comments.
First
of
all,
I
really
appreciate
I'm
the
kentucky
bankers
association.
I
think
you're
absolutely
right.
I
think
that
this
pandemic
showed
all
of
us
just
how
difficult
it
is
to
work.
The
way
we
were
used
to,
I
applaud
you
for
getting
it
done
during
the
pandemic.
That's
a
big,
it's
a
big
load
and
you
carried
it.
That's
wonderful!
C
If
something
like
this
happened
again,
I
don't
know
what
that
schedule
is,
but
I
really
think
we've
got
to
move
to
a
mandatory
plan
rather
than
a
voluntary
system,
and
I
think
you
know,
I
think
the
fact
that
small
and
large
counties
have
been
able
to
do
it
or
are
in
the
process
of
doing
it
shows
us
that
it
can
be
done.
But
thank
you
for
your
comments.
Debbie.
I
really
appreciated
them.
You're
quite
welcome.
C
E
B
B
Well,
of
course
you
have
to
have
like
I
said,
our
software
company
is
caught
systems
and
there's
120
counties,
and
each
one
has
a
different
software.
Well,
not
each
one.
You
have
different
software
vendors,
so
I
would
say
and
don
I
believe,
you'd
agree
with
me.
If
you
have
a
vendor
you're
already
set
up
to
do
that,
because
all
ours
had
to
do
was
just
turn
that
on
for
us
and
it
was
easy,
there
was
nothing
to
it.
They
just
turned
it
on
now.
Granted
they
had
been.
B
Other
states
had
gone
through
cut
systems
before
so
they
had
already
been
doing
this
for
several
years.
So,
but
I
I
don't
believe
that
there's
a
system
out
there
that
cannot
handle
this
and
they
did
give
presentations
at
one
of
our
clerks
meetings
last
year
and
every
single
one
of
them
can
do
this.
It's
just
you
gotta.
B
Sometimes
it's
a
scare.
You
know
it's
like
this
is
added
an
additional
work,
but,
to
be
honest,
it's
easier
because
you
don't
have
that
person
coming
into
your
counter.
You
don't
have
as
much
mail
there's
so
many
pluses
to
this,
and
instead
of
let's
say
a
title
company,
and
I
just
throwing
that
out-
has
runners
well,
if
you
have
something
wrong
with
your
document
that
runner
has
to
take
it
back
to
the
office,
get
that
fixed,
bring
that
back
to
the
office.
B
C
A
B
E
Yeah,
I
would
concur
that
the
smaller
counties
are
actually
typically
in
a
better
position
than
the
larger
ones,
the
reason
being
that
most
of
them
already
have
software.
That's
really
just
flip
a
switch
and
they
might
have
to
pay
a
little
extra,
but
in
their
situations
it's
a
lot
easier.
I
think
I'm
probably
one
of
the
holdouts
only
because
we
have
an
in-house
developed
system
that
it
will
cost
about
300
000
to
replace.
A
E
Process
because
it's
over
the
minimum
for
for
doing
a
purchase,
so
I've
got
quite
a
bit
of
work
there.
It's
not
just
as
simple
as
you
know,
buying
software
and
throwing
the
switch
and
the
conversion
of
your
image.
Data
to
the
new
system
is,
is
a
non-trivial
process
as
well.
That
will
likely
require
take
months
a
couple
months
for
us
to
do
so.
It's
I
probably
the
worst
one
in
the
state.
Everybody
else
will
probably
go
or
could
go
before
me
if
they
really.
C
E
C
A
E
C
John,
the
other
side
of
e-recording
is
electronic.
Searching
of
the
real
estate
records
do
either
the
clerks
on.
This
call
have
have
a
read
on
what
percentage
of
the
records
are
now
searchable
and
if
we
go
to
electronic
filing,
could
we
also
maybe
with
a
subsequent
effective
date,
require
the
land
records,
say
going
back
30
years
be
electronically
searchable.
B
I
can
speak
for
hardin
county,
yes,
so
we
have
our
deeds
right
now
back
to
1950
and
that's
the
images
and
the
indexes
and
for
1793
forward.
We
have
those
copies
of
the
deeds
in
our
system.
We
just
don't
have
the
the
merge
together.
The
index
like
we
do
with
going
back
to
the
1950s,
but
we
do
have
all
that
in
our
system
and
you
can
pull
up.
You
can
go
on
blind
and
and
look
our
documents
up.
C
E
There's
a
lot
more
to
it.
There's
a
lot
more
to
the
document
search
side
than
than
you
might
realize.
Not
all
counties
have
been
scanning
like
like
some
others.
It's
not
a
requirement
right
now,
so
some
do
and
some
don't
most
go
back
some
number
of
years,
but
not
probably
as
far
as
debbie.
That's
one
of
the
longer
ones
that
I've
heard
my
office
goes
back
to
approximately
89
90
somewhere
in
there
with
our
scanning
for
us
to
convert
and
put
them
online.
I
need
software
that
will
do
that.
E
So
that's
that'll
be
a
part
of
that
purchase.
I
was
talking
about.
The
other
thing
I
want
to
remind
us
is
that,
prior
to
the
passage
of
senate
bill,
114
we
were
reliant.
Some
counties
were
very
reliant
on
copy
fee
income
that
50
cents
a
page.
It
added
up
to
a
significant
amount
of
money,
particularly
in
fayette.
So
I
was
loathed.
I
can't
give
away
something:
that's
my
income
source.
E
So
once
we
do
get
the
software,
the
document
storage
fee
is
well
sufficient
to
offset
whatever
I
lose
and
copy
fees
once
we
are
able
to
put
it
on.
But
that's
a
county
by
county
thing
and
will
be
much
more
problematic
in
terms
of
how
far
back
they've
done
scanning
one
other
good
thing
about
the
document
storage
fee
is
that
will
also
pay
for
external
companies
to
come
in
and
do
the
scanning
at
least
over
time,
if
you
can
save
up
enough
money.
E
C
Could
you
all
talk
to
your
fellow
clerks
and
maybe
suggest
what
an
appropriate
timeline
might
be
to
have
sounds
like
e-filing?
Statewide
is
not
going
to
be
a
huge
issue,
e-searching
statewide
might
take
a
little
longer
and
what
an
appropriate
look-back
period
would
be
in
terms
of
how
many
years
should
be
online.
Going
back
to
the
1700s.
Is
nice
going
back
30
years
would
take
care
of
I'm
not
a
real
estate
lawyer.
What
90
some
odd
percent.
B
Probably
we've
been
working
on
ours
to
be
honest
since
1995
and
I
went
off
when
you
know
on
the
real
estate
side.
Let's
just
say:
if
they
get
finished
waiting
on
a
customer,
the
case
was
and
then
they
would
start
backlogging.
So
it's
it's
not
if
you're
you
know
large
or
small.
It
takes
time
to
do
that,
but
it
is
rewarding
when
you
look
and
you
see
what
you
have
accomplished,
but
it
does
take
a
while
to
do
that.