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From YouTube: Budget Review Subcommittee on General Government, Finance, Personnel, and Public Retirement(9-24-21)
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A
Welcome
to
meeting
number
four
of
the
budget
review
subcommittee
on
general
government,
finance
personnel
and
public
retirement,
and
anything
else
we'd
like
to
discuss
so,
madam
clerk,
would
you
call
roll
and
if
you
are
remote,
please
let
us
know
that.
B
A
A
B
E
Good
morning,
sarah
beth
gregory
chief
of
staff
for
the
auditor
of
public
accounts
and
and
we've
got
a
couple
of
our
folks
on
remotely
who
I'll
mention
as
well
as
the
ones
here
at
the
table.
We
have
our
assistant
state
auditor,
farah
petter
and
our
executive
director
of
local
government
audits,
jim
royce,
who
are
also
available
if
they're
needed
for
technical
expertise
and
questions
later
and
then
tim.
Would
you
like
to
introduce
yourself
yeah
tim
guttman,
director
of
financial
operations,.
C
All
right
well,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
very
glad
to
be
here
always
good,
of
course,
served
13
years
in
the
kentucky
house
prior
to
coming
here.
So
I'm
prior
to
being
elected
auditor,
and
so
it's
always
great
to
be
back
to
see
everybody
see
former
colleagues
now,
as
you
know,
the
motto
that
brought
to
the
office,
the
auditor's
offices
just
followed
the
data.
C
We
don't
target
anyone,
we
don't
give
anybody
a
pass.
We
just
simply
follow
the
data.
Our
mission
is
to
be
the
guardian
of
the
taxpayers.
Of
course,
I
I
jokingly
say
that
we
are
the
watchdog
of
the
taxpayers
and
I've
kind
of
got
a
running
joke
with
our
treasurer.
She
says
that
she's,
the
watchdog
of
the
taxpayers,
and
I
say
that
I'm
the
watchdog,
so
basically
I
say
that
she
covers
the
front
end
of
the
dog.
C
C
As
I
said,
we
make
sure
that
government
is
efficient,
effective
and
ethical
as
opposed
to
auditing
your
taxes.
E
F
C
That's
good
all
righty.
Now,
as
you
can
see,
our
office
does
about
600
audits
per
year.
We
audit
everything
from
the
commonwealth's
annual
comprehensive
financial
report.
We
do
every
year
we
do
the
statewide
single
out
of
kentucky
and
we
actually
release
two
volumes
of
that.
There's
volume,
one
that
deals
specifically
with
financial
statement
and
controls
volume
two
looks
more
towards
federal
compliance.
C
We
do
audits,
fiscal
courts,
sheriffs
county
clerks
and
we
do
special
exams
now,
aside
from
the
special
exams,
the
majority
of
what
we
do
is
actually
mandated
by
statute
now.
I
do
want
to
start
today
and
with
some
of
the
some
of
the
new
things
that
our
officers
are
doing
to
to
work
towards
transparency.
C
In
2017,
the
general
assembly
passed
house
bill
189,
which
is
to
increase
transparency
as
to
our
area
development
districts
and
gave
apa
a
right
of
first
refusal
to
review
work
papers
on
the
required
annual
audits
of
ads.
Now,
since
then,
we've
worked
with
the
ads
and
their
cpa
firms
to
get
all
ads
using
a
more
consistent
form
of
financial
reporting.
Now
this
year
we
are
exercising
our
right
of
first
refusal
to
perform
two
ad
audits
with
our
apa
staff.
C
C
Hopefully,
this
will
be
something
that
we
can
continue
to
do
in
the
future.
Now
another
example
of
expanding
transparency
deals
with
our
county
attorneys.
Now
one
of
the
most
common
questions
that
I
had
received
after
becoming
auditor
is
why
county
attorney
offices
actually
had
quite
a
few
times.
Don't
receive
annual
audits
like
county
clerks
and
sheriffs.
Do
now
state
laws
give
our
office
the
discretionary
authority
to
audit
county
attorneys,
but
there's
not
really
a
required
annual
audit,
like
our
other
officials.
C
Just
you
know
we
did
our.
During
our
2020
special
examination
of
certain
county
attorney
offices.
We
identified
a
number
of
issues
that
led
to
federal
indictments
in
two
different
counties.
Now
the
the
first
one,
the
boyd
county
child
support
office
manager
pled
guilty
now
that
one's
kind
of
interesting,
because
it
it
was
my
understanding
that,
when
our
folks
went
in
all
they
did
was
ask
for
bank
statements
and
the
following
day
the
child
support
office
manager
came
in
talked
to
the
county
attorney
and
basically
said.
C
I
know
why
the
auditor's
here,
I've
been
stealing
so
so
it
was
kind
of
our
perry
macy.
It
was
really
kind
of
our
perry
mason
moment
as
I
understand
so.
Yes,
yes,
yes,
that
that
day
and
of
course
you
know
it
only
goes
to
show
that
you
know
shining
a
little
bit
of
sunlight
is
a
great
disinfectant.
C
Now.
The
the
second
item
that
we've
had
the
lawrence
county
attorney
was
indicted
on
multiple
counts,
related
to
a
six-figure
payment
on
bonuses
to
his
wife,
and
that
one
was
interesting
as
well,
but
over
the
past
year
we've
been
working
with
the
county
attorney
associations
on
a
pilot
program
to
begin
more
routine
reviews
of
county
attorney
offices
around
the
state,
which
we
think
obviously
is
important.
C
Now
that
I've
talked
a
little
bit
about
what
we
do
and
some
of
the
newer
things
that
we've
been
working
on
it's
time
to
dive
in
really
to
the
subject
of
the
day,
which
is
our
agency's
budget
now,
this
slide
reflects
the
current
year
appropriation
for
our
agency
and,
as
you
can
see,
40
percent
of
the
appropriation
is
from
the
general
fund
about
60
percent
is
from
a
restricted
fund
now,
because
fiscal
year
22
was
a
continuation
budget.
This
is
consistent
with
fiscal
year
21.
C
now.
One
thing-
that's
very
important
to
note
is
that
the
apa's,
only
source
of
restricted
funds
is
billing
for
audits.
We
conduct,
unlike
a
lot
of
other
agencies,
we
do
not
receive
federal
funds
or
have
any
other
restricted
fund
revenue
streams,
as
our
costs
go
up,
for
example,
with
increased
pension
contributions.
C
E
Thank
you,
auditor,
harman
and
good
morning
again.
Everyone
this
slide
gives
you
just
sort
of
a
high
level
overview
of
our
agency
spending
over
the
last
several
years
and
a
couple
of
things
that
I'll
highlight
on
this
slide.
One
you
can.
Certainly
you
can
see
that
most
of
our
spending
is
on
personnel
and
you
can
see
how
much
pension
contributions
really
impact
that
personnel
cost.
Obviously,
you
can
also
see
here
an
interesting
trend.
E
E
We
think
a
lot
of
our
folks
worked
remotely
already
in
different
county
courthouses,
and
so
now,
if
they're
going
into
those
courthouses
a
little
less,
it's
saving
on
travel
costs,
both
as
an
expense
for
our
agency
and
also
an
expense
that
would
get
directly
passed
on
to
those
counties
so
even
as,
as
things
start
to,
hopefully
keep
trending
more
back
to
normal.
We
hope
that
we'll
actually
be
able
to
use
that
experience
and
what
we
learned
during
those
pandemic
times,
maybe
we're
still
in
them.
E
C
And
certainly
we
want
to
take
just
a
moment
to
thank
our
county
officials.
You
know
when
the
pandemic
first
hit,
everybody
was
scrambling
and
thankfully
we
were
able
to
go
the
majority
telework
very
quickly,
but
we
couldn't
have
done
that
if
it
wasn't
for
the
county
and
state
officials
working
so
cooperatively
with
us
in
providing
us
the
information,
so
our
staff
could
continue
to
do
that
and
work
from
home.
So
a
big
thanks
to
our
county
officials
in
that
regards
also
I'm
certainly
extremely
proud
of
our
apa
staff.
C
E
And
so
our
next
slide
really
is
a
follow-up
with
just
a
different
way
to
look
at
that.
That
shows
a
percentage
breakdown
of
personnel
versus
operating
costs.
Again
you
can
see.
Personnel
cost
is
really
the
vast
majority
of
our
spending.
We
have
pretty
low
overhead
and
operating
costs
and
90
percent
of
that
personnel
cost
is
auditors.
So
I
want
to
make
that
clear.
Also,
I
think
that's
important.
We
don't
have
a
lot
of
administrative.
You
know.
Obviously
you
have
to
a
few
I.t
technical
support.
E
Folks
and
you
know
people
to
pay
the
bills
and
do
payroll,
but
vast
majority
of
our
staff
are
auditors
who
are
out
there.
You
know
doing
the
day-to-day
work
to
accomplish
the
mission
of
the
agency
and
be
that
watchdog
that
auditor
harmon
described
so
we
we
do
struggle
like
many
agencies
with
recruitment
and
retention.
We
have
both
competition
with
the
private
sector
and
then
also
with
government
agencies.
Our
staff
get
such
good
training
and
are
highly
recruitable
by
other
government
agencies
from
our
office.
E
So
that
is
a
struggle
for
us,
but
we
really
try
to
be
conscious
of
balancing.
You
know
the
need
to
you
know
we'd
like
to
maybe
pay
higher
salaries
like
a
lot
of
agencies
would
to
try
to
recruit
more
people,
but
we
try
to
balance
that,
and
you
know
really
with
the
reality
that
the
cost
of
salaries
gets
also
passed
on
to
the
agencies
that
we
audit
and
they're
strapped
for
funds
as
well.
E
So
it's
a
it's
a
delicate
balance,
but
it
is
a
very
important
topic
for
us,
obviously
again
like
a
lot
of
agencies
trying
to
to
maintain
the
staff
that
it
takes
to
continue
doing
high
quality
audit
work.
This
slide
is
just
a
representation
and
some
detail
on
our
rates.
It's
our
current
hourly
rates
that
we
charge
and
and
how
we
bill
for
the
different
types
of
audits
that
are
our
our
routine
audits
over
time.
E
Obviously,
rates
have
gone
up
because
of
increased
pension
costs
and
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
and
that
those
get
passed
on
and
also
up
until
just
these
last
couple
of
budgets,
we
we'd
been
like
most
agencies
hit
with
a
series
of
general
fund
cuts
through
the
years
that
had
to
then
you
know,
be
passed
on
still.
E
The
cost
to
other
agencies
so
just
to
cover
a
couple
of
the
details
with
the
work
that
we
do
on
the
state's
annual
comprehensive
financial
report,
the
big
annual
audit
of
the
commonwealth,
most
of
that
gets
billed
to
the
agencies,
but
a
portion
of
that
is
designated
to
be
paid
covered
from
our
general
fund
and
that
language
is
is
budget
language
that's
listed
on
the
slide.
E
So
there
are
a
few
elements
of
that
that
aren't
billed
to
the
state
agencies
that
are
audited
also
with
fiscal
court
audits
they're
a
little
different,
because
there
is
a
provision
in
statute
that
those
are
billed
at
50
percent
of
the
raid
for
the
budgeted
funds
of
fiscal
court.
So
that's
most
of
their
funds,
other
than
federal
funds
and
and
jail
canteen
are
a
couple
usually
that
are
are
not
budgeted
county
clerk
and
sheriff
audits.
Under
that
same
statute,
krs-43070
are
billed
at
100
of
the
the
rate
cost.
E
So
one
thing
I
want
to
mention
back
a
couple
years
ago:
really,
I
guess,
the
last
time
that
we
had
a
biennial
budget
in
fiscal
year,
19
and
20.
The
fiscal
court
rate
was
raised
by
the
legislature
up
to
75
percent,
and
that
was
obviously
a
shift
of
a
cost
burden
to
local
governments
and
that
language,
the
legislature
changed
back
in
the
fiscal
year,
21
and
22
budgets
back
to
the
50
percent.
E
So
we
you
know,
we
and
certainly
the
counties,
appreciate
the
support
of
the
general
assembly
in
doing
that
and
providing
the
general
fund
dollars
to
help
cover
those
costs,
and
I
do
want
to
mention
that
rates
again.
Thanks
to
you
all
well-
and
the
auditor
is
about
to
talk
more
about
this
too,
I
think,
but
the
rates
have
not
gone
up
since
fiscal
year.
2019
we've
been
able
to
maintain
and
not
raise
those
and.
C
That's
been
fantastic,
and
certainly
thanks
again
for
the
legislative
support
that
we
received
in
the
fiscal
year.
21
budget
in
the
form
of
the
2
million
dollar
additional
general
fund
dollars
certainly
allowed
us
to
return
back
to
the
50
percent
billing
and
also
avoided
the
need
for
rate
increases,
as
sarah
beth
indicated
now,
because
this
support
was
continued
for
fiscal
year
22.
Once
again,
rates
are
not
going
to
increase
this
year
either
our
biggest
ask
going
into
the
next
budget
session.
C
This
was
the
first
time
in
probably
a
decade
that
we
didn't
have
general
fund
cut,
and
it
really-
and
I
mean
really
makes
a
difference
in
both
the
work
that
we're
able
to
do
and
the
cost
that
gets
passed
on
to
county
governments
and
other
agencies
that
we
audit.
So
thank
you
once
again,
not
just
for
our
office,
but
really
it's
a
thank
on
behalf
of
every
official
and
agency
that
gets
audited.
E
So
shifting
gears
a
little
bit
with
this
slide
from
expenditures
to
revenues.
This
slide
has
a
couple
of
pie,
charts
that
show
kind
of
a
breakdown
of
our
agency
revenues.
E
Our
restricted
funds,
that
is
by
their
major
sources,
and
one
of
the
things
you
can
pretty
quickly
see
in
looking
at
the
charts-
is
that
the
county,
clerk
and
sheriff
audits
are
the
biggest
piece
of
that
pie
and
really
that's
because
hey
they're
built
at
100
percent
of
the
rate
per
statute
and
b,
that's
360
audits
per
year,
because
every
clerk
and
every
sheriff
are
required
to
have
an
annual
audit
of
their
fees
that
they
collect
and
also
every
sheriff
is
required
to
have
an
annual
audit
of
their
settlement
or
an
annual
audit
of
their
tax
settlement
for
the
the
property
tax
revenues
that
they
collect.
C
Now,
one
of
the
things
that
we've
tried
to
do
during
my
time
in
the
auditor's
office
is
really
look
for
look
for
opportunities
to
enact
policy
changes
that
make
sense
both
for
governments
and
really
for
the
taxpayers
as
well.
In
2018,
the
general
assembly
passed
senate
bill
144.
That
was
a
piece
of
legislation
that
our
office
recommended
and
certainly
appreciate
your
all
support
in
getting
it
passed.
C
I
know
many
of
you
all
voted
for
that
and,
if
not
all
of
you
here
voted
for
it,
and
certainly
thank
you
to
that.
You
know
when
we,
when
we
first
looked
at
it
apa,
took
a
look
at
it
for
the
recommendations
conservatively.
We
thought
there
might
be
a
25
to
50
percent.
We
actually
thought
there
would
be
somewhere
between
25
to
50.
Savings,
however,
was
very
pleased
once
it
was
passed
and
went
into
effect
the
first
year
that
our
sheriffs
and
our
county
clerks
participated
in
it.
C
C
They
saw
on
average
about
a
65
percent
savings
or
a
total
dollar
amount
of
those
counties
of
about
286
thousand.
So
we
felt
like
it
was
a
good
something
good
to
do.
We
thought
it
was
good
to
provide
that
incentive
if
you
had
a
county
clerk
or
sheriff
that
maybe
had
one
or
two
small
items
to
get
that
cleaned
up,
so
they
could
qualify
it
in
the
year
and
it
actually
was
very
beneficial
for
our
office
as
well,
because
it
allowed
us
to
take
staff.
C
So,
with
the
passage
of
this
bill,
it
will
ensure
that
each
county
only
has
one
sheriff
tax
settlement
audit
per
year.
Now,
that's
that's
a
a
significant
savings
on
for
our
counties
that
had
previously
paid
for
not
just
one
but
two
or
even
three
of
these
type
of
audits.
So
in
most
of
those
would
be
your
coal
counties,
so
the
bill
passed
unanimously.
So
thank
you
to
everyone
who
voted
for
it
and
we
look
forward
to
seeing
what
sort
of
savings
those
will
be
for
those
counties.
E
So,
following
up
on
what
the
auditor's
been
talking
about
with
the
county
clerk
and
sheriff
audits,
when
we
talk
about
those
audits-
and
we
talk
about
ways
to
save
money
on
that,
it
really
saves
money
for
the
the
counties
not
specifically
for
those
clerk
and
sheriff
offices.
Again
we
charge
the
our
full
rate
per
statute
for
those
mandatory
annual
audits
of
those
offices
and
in
the
vast
majority,
it's
the
fiscal
court
who
pays
those
bills.
E
E
That's
set
up
really
it's
again
the
fiscal
court
who's
on
the
hook,
but
this
is
a
topic
that
we
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
as
it's
particularly
of
interest
to
chairman
blanton,
and
I
don't
think
he's
with
us
today,
but
we
did
want
to
address
it.
You
know
partly
because
I
know
it
is
of
interest
to
him,
and
there
are
some
things
that
fiscal
courts
can
do
to
try
to
help
manage
how
a
clerk
and
sheriff
offices
run,
but
really
largely
that's.
E
E
You
could
have
an
official
who
maybe
doesn't
cooperate
with
the
auditors
or
who
has
really
bad
bookkeeping
or
really
isn't
prepared
for
the
audit,
or
you
can
even
have
situations
where
you've
had
an
employee
theft
or
a
fraud
issue
come
up
in
an
office,
and
you
know,
there's
there's
been
some
expression
from
counties
that
you
know.
That's
really
not
fair
for
the
fiscal
court
when
that
comes
up,
because
they
couldn't
reasonably
have
expected
that
you
know
outlier
audit
costs
when
they
were
were
budgeting.
E
But
you
know
we
bill
for
the
the
cost
of
audits
based
on
the
hours
that
it
takes
to
complete
the
work,
and
you
know
sometimes
counties
may
ask
us
for
it
for
a
discount
and
some
some
of
you,
I
don't
know
as
a
look
around
the
room.
Probably
not
any
of
you
who
are
sitting
here
have
called
to
ask
for
a
discount,
but
the
question
has
been
raised
and
it's
not
something
that
we
have
legal
authority
to
do,
but
we,
you
know
we
do
understand
that
it
can
put
a
burden
on
a
fiscal
court.
E
When
an
audit
cost
is
you
know
higher
than
what
they
had
expected
when
they
budgeted.
So
we
just
wanted
to
toss
out
to
this
committee
and,
as
folks
are
maybe
thinking
about
that
that
you
know
an
option
could
be
to
put
some
some
budget
language
in
to
provide
some
some
small
pool
of
general
fund
dollars
to
possibly
help
counties
with
outlier
audit
costs,
and
that's
just
one
option.
You
know
we're
happy
to
to
discuss
ideas
that
others
may
have.
E
So
you
know
certainly
happy
to
work
with
with
anyone
on
on
topics
that
may
be
of
interest
to
you
and
your
constituents,
our
final
slide
or
pretty
close
to
our
final
slide.
I
guess
we
we
do
have
a
couple
things.
We
just
wanted
to
call
your
attention
to
that
relate
to
some
relatively
minor
points
that
are
in
existing
budget
language
for
our
office.
That's
been
there
for
a
while
and
as
a
former
legislator
and
former
ar
committee
member,
I
know
when
you
can
take
some
things
out
of
that
budget
language.
E
It's
usually
considered
a
positive
because
that's
a
massive
bill
anyhow.
So
these
are
just
a
couple
there.
A
long
time
ago
was
an
auditor
scholarship
program
set
up,
that's
never
actually
been
funded.
It
would
be
kind
of
similar
to
what
you
see
transportation
cabinet
do
with
trying
to
recruit
engineers.
You
helped
provide
scholarship
for
a
secured
contract
with
the
state
that
had
shall
language
that
was
mandatory.
We
proposed
a
modernization
bill
that
that
this
body
passed
in
2020
that
kind
of
cleaned
up
some
things
and
it
made
that
not
a
mandatory
program.
E
Our
agency
had
authority
for
those
to
roll
into
sick
leave,
but
that's
a
a
practice
that
we've
continued
beginning
with
this
fiscal
year
or
we've
discontinued.
I
don't
remember,
I
think
I
may
have
spoken
there,
a
practice
we've
discontinued,
so
we're
not
using
that
that
authority
to
roll
block
50s
into
sick,
we're
really
just
trying
to
focus
on
managing
time
to
not
have
folks
earning
that
much
over
time.
E
C
F
Exactly
good
to
see
my
two
former
colleagues,
I
just
want
to
just
touch
upon
something:
sarah
bath
that
you
talked
about
in
terms
of
the
budget,
language
suggested
updates,
and
the
last
thing
you
talked
about.
G
F
And
you
were
talking
earlier
about
recruitment
and
retention.
Wouldn't
this
be
this
idea
of
what
you
call
the
complete
conversion
to
sick?
Wouldn't
that
be
a
one
of
those
things
that
could
help
keep
people
within
the
agency.
F
E
We
had
a
concern
that,
once
you
started
potentially
having
tier
three
employees
earning
sufficient
overtime
to
trigger
a
block
50,
because
their
sick
leave
doesn't
really
apply
to
their
retirement
in
the
way
that
it
did
for
older
employees
that
we
might
be
running
afoul
of
federal
wage
and
our
laws,
and
that
was
sort
of
a
one.
Size
fits
all
switch
for
the
agency
on
or
off.
E
So
we
we
didn't
really
have
a
mechanism
to
maybe
let
let
employees
elect
which
would
be
most
beneficial
for
them
and
we
think
for
most
most
employees
and
really
especially
as
you
start
going
forward-
and
you
know
having
tier
three
people
earning
overtime
and
that
sort
of
thing
that
it
makes
more
sense.
And
it's.
F
E
E
So
we're
you
know
we're
we're
taking.
Hopefully,
if
we
take
two
steps
forward,
we
don't
take
one
back
on
our
hiring
efforts,
but
you
know
like
every
employer.
I
think
right
now.
It's
it's
a
tough
job
market.
It's
definitely
an
employee
friendly
job
market
out
there.
F
Well,
and
and
the
agency
in
itself
is
designed
to
protect
the
public
funding
of
all
agencies,
but
it's
also
a
way
in
which
to
bring
in
additional
money
for
the
commonwealth
and
the
last
thing,
mr
chairman,
if
I
could
you
talked
about
this
and
that's
about
statute
fiscal
core,
but
I
I
come
from
a
background
serving
on
a
city
commission,
yes,
so
what
aspects
of
that
do
you
deal
with?
F
I'm
sure
you
do,
but
how
is
that
any
different,
if
not
from
what
you
deal
with
in
dealing
with
the
fiscal
court
and
county
government.
E
So
our
office
does
not
routinely
do
any
city
government
audits,
those
are
are
done.
They
most
of
them
have
an
annual
or
every
other
year
audit
requirement,
but
those
are
done
by.
F
E
D
B
G
B
A
B
I
really
don't
have
a
question.
I
just
want
to
give
a
shout
out
to
to
my
former
colleague
sarah
beth.
You
know
my
rookie
year
in
the
state
senate,
sarah
beth
and
I
were
colleagues
in
the
state
senate
and,
as
you
know,
as
we
say
in
the
state
senate,
sarah
beth
once
a
state
senator
always
a
state.
C
And
and
senator
I
have
to
say
she
started
out
being
a
colleague
of
mine
in
the
house
and
then
she
fled
to
the
senate.
So
I'm
sure
she
was
glad
you
all
welcomed
her
over
there.
It.
C
A
That
is
true,
representative
keaney.
D
Thank
you.
Do
I
have
to
fawn
over
the
both
of
you
have
answered
with
I
mean.
D
Well,
a
comment
and
a
question
if
I
may
miss
mr
chairman.
First
of
all,
I
I
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
raises
across
the
board
in
all
departments
in
this
next
upcoming
budget.
I've
said
that
before
and
I
think,
even
in
one
of
these
meetings
with
your
predecessor,
I
said
we
needed
to
give
the
auditor's
office
more
money
because
we
will
hopefully
save
money
in
the
long
run.
D
It
may
not
be
state
money
per
se,
but
it's
taxpayer
dollars,
and
so,
whichever
you
know,
whichever
way
the
and
our
staff
or
committee
members
go
and
and
leadership
goes,
but
I
think
we're
we're
overdue
across
the
board
and
auditor's
office,
maybe
more
so
than
than
others.
That
said,
I
I
just
a
comment,
and
I
wish
representative
blanton
was
was
here,
so
I
wasn't
because
I
know
you
were
talking
and
about
a
concern.
D
He
has
and
he's
representing
his
constituents
when
he
when
he
does
that,
come
I'm
representing
my
constituents.
When
I
say
if
you
can't
pay
your
bills,
then
you
know,
if
you're
a
county,
they
can't
pay
your
bills.
Maybe
you
need
to
look
at
other
options,
including
merging
with
other
counties.
A
Do
we
have
any
questions
remotely
I
see
none.
I
have
a
comment.
The
entities
paying
the
audits
would
pay
an
outside
firm
anyway,
so
it
isn't
costing
them.
Actually,
your
fees
that
I
have
found
are
usually
cheaper
than
an
outside
audit,
because
we
at
the
labor
cabinet
were
asking
you
all
to
take
it
and
you
kept
saying
no
and
we
had
to
pay
more.
I
had
to
get
it
outside
on
it.
A
A
C
The
big
problem
is
is
just
as
usual
indicated
if
we
had
more
money
to
to
pay
auditors
really.
The
retention
is
the
hard
thing,
because
you
know
we
get
people
in,
we
get
them
trained
and
then
other
agencies
either
snap
them
up
or
our
private
companies
snapped
them
up.
So
it's
one
of
those
things
we're
in
a
constant
training.
So
if
we
get
them
trained
and
hold
on
to
them,
then
that
that
experience
level
would
go
up
and
we
could
actually
do
more
audits
even
more
efficiently.
A
I
I
Again,
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
present.
We
understand
the
importance
of
this
committee
in
the
state
budget
process
and
truly
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
testify,
and
again
my
name
is
steve
henry
and
I
am
the
webster
county
judge,
executive
and
vice
president
of
the
kentucky
coal
and
mineral
coalition.
I
Our
purpose
here
today
is
simply
to
say
thank
you
for
your
help
and
con
and
confidence
these
past
few
budget
sessions.
Although
the
2020
and
21
legislative
sessions
were
challenging
because
of
the
covet
pandemic,
this
committee
and
the
general
assembly
complete
demanding
tasks
amidst
difficult
circumstances,
for
those
who
are
new
to
this
conversation.
Coal
and
mineral
severance
is
very
important
and
considered
vital
to
county
governments
once
coal
or
minerals
are
mined
and
the
tax
is
paid
to
the
state.
I
The
funds
have
historically
been
shared
through
the
legislative
and
budget
process
with
counties
and
regions
from
which
they
are
mined,
and
for
this
purpose
of
this
testimony
we
will
separate
the
two
sides
of
coal
and
mineral
servants
and
discuss
them
in
respect
to
each
other
as
local
leaders
that
work
with
all
of
our
local
industries.
I'm
pleased
to
report
that
coal
and
coal
mining
is
alive
and
well
in
coal
counties.
I
To
quickly
recap,
this
fiscal
year,
21
state
budget
that
just
ended
june
30th
cfg
final
projected
revenue
for
coal
segments,
totaled,
52.4
million
dollars
the
state
debt
service
amount
of
26.8
million
dollars
was
deducted
off
the
top
from
there.
Dlg
administrative
costs
were
paid
at
six
hundred
and
sixty
nine
thousand
dollars.
I
I
Do
we
have,
I
think,
joining
us
live
from
the
heart
of
eastern
county?
Is
harlan
county
judge,
executive
dan
mosely
and
he's
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
usage
of
coal
severance
in
the
eastern
part
of
the
commonwealth?
J
Thank
you
judge
henry,
and
thank
you
to
the
committee.
Thank
you
chairman
for
allowing
us
to
appear
today
to
talk
about
coal
severance
and
the
important
uses
that
it
has
in
our
community
here
in
eastern
kentucky
and
in
western
kentucky.
We've
all
been
hit
very
hard
by
the
downturn
of
the
coal
industry.
J
Our
coal
county
officials
worked
very
hard
over
the
last
interim
with
you
all
on
the
current
fy
22
budget,
and
once
again
we
can't
thank
you
enough
for
for
your
help.
We
want
to
be
good
stewards
of
these
resources
and
we
want
to
be
transparent
about
this
funding
in
our
county.
We
have
made
a
very
huge
focus
on
economic
diversification
with
our
coal
severance
funds.
J
We
used
a
large
portion
of
coal
severance
money
over
the
last
two
years
to
develop
a
state
certified
economic
development,
build
ready
site
that
is
on
the
eastern
end
of
our
county.
We
have
also
leveraged
some
abandoned
mine
land
funding
to
get
a
natural
gas
line
expanded
to
this
site
to
be
able
to
compete
for
industry.
J
We
also
utilize
this
funding
to
fund
our
fire
departments,
our
first
responder
groups,
rescue
squads,
many
communities
also
utilize
it
for
ambulance
service
funding
and
9-1-1
centers
things
that
matter
the
most
to
our
the
communities
that
we
serve
we're
as
judge
henry
said
coal
mining
is,
is
alive.
Certainly,
we've
all
had
our
struggles
in
this
industry.
Fortunately,
here
in
harlem
county,
we
still
have
several
mining
operations
up
and
running.
That
is
still
employing
directly
about
400
to
500
coal
miners
right
here
in
our
county.
We're
very
thankful
for
that.
J
I'd
like
to
switch
gears
a
little
bit
and
talk
about
mineral
severance
on
the
charts,
provided
you
can
see
the
amount
of
severance
taxes
paid
on
minerals
over
the
the
last
20
years.
Much
like
coal,
mineral
severance
is
a
state
assessed
tax
shared
with
counties.
J
J
We
also
our
local
communities,
have
debt
service
associated
with
it
that
many
of
us
inherited
when
we
took
office
either
in
2019
or
2015.,
so
we're
required
to
honor
those
obligations
that
were
made
before
all
of
us
for
the
fiscal
for
the
fy
21
fiscal
year,
mineral
severance
was
projected
at
26
million
for
the
fiscal
year.
We
are
in
currently
fy
22
projections
are
28
million.
G
Thank
you
again
for
being
with
you
all
today:
penalty,
county,
its
location,
I
think
riverton
recording
probably
knows
of
our
location,
we're
roughly
about
40
to
45
minutes
around
away
from
any
hospitals
or
anything
large.
So
we
have
to
rely
on
our
emergency
service.
Quite
a
bit.
We
use
the
our
mineral
severance
to
help
along
our
aimless
district.
We
give
them
to
that
and
plus
also
we
carry
an
annual
agreement
with
one
of
the
aryvac
error
transports
to
assist
with
that
too.
G
So
that's
money,
that's
used
for
and
then
again
we
use
it
for
fire
protection
for
the
county.
We
have
do
have
one
far
taxing
district,
but
the
majority
of
the
county
is
underneath
them.
G
It
just
don't
know
it's
a
taxing
district,
but
it's
underneath
the
fiscal
court
to
kind
of
provide
that
fire
protection
and
those
funds
are
used
to
that
too.
Along
with
that,
we
we
supplement
our
road
fund
for
helping
our
county
road
fund.
You.
C
G
G
They
go
down
it's
anywhere
from
100
to
200
thousand
dollars
when
a
bridge
goes
out
so
and
also
with
that
too.
We
we
asses.
G
Some
of
those
funds
are
also
used
with
their
emergency
management
and
with
our
dispatch,
or
you
know
where
we're
permitted
to
use
that
there
is
good
guidelines
on
you
know
what
those
those
funds
are
used
for
and
we
try
to
stay
with
those
as
best
we
can,
and
we
did
reach
out
to
some
of
the
other
middle
severance
counties
and
I'd
like
to
read
to
you
some
of
their
comments
on
that.
Just
so,
you
can
understand
the
importance
in
their
counties.
G
Fleming
county
judge,
executive
alert,
foxworthy
stated
that
fleming
county
physical
court
relies
on
mineral
seven
funds
to
supplement
our
road
fund
to
keep
up
with
the
ever
increasing
cost
of
materials
and
equipment.
Crittenden
county
judge,
exec
perry
newcomb
has
informed
us
that,
through
their
mineral
severance
has
been
on
the
decline.
G
The
county
utilized
most
of
the
funding
for
office
supplies
for
the
county
corner
the
county.
The
county
has
mostly
recently
replaced
up
outdated
equipment
and
upgraded
operations
for
to
hard
to
reach
areas
of
the
community.
These
upgrades
have
allowed
the
coroner's
office
to
provide
the
treatment
of
deceased
and
their
family
with
better
service
and
dignity.
G
I
Thank
you,
judge,
mosley
and
judge
fields
for
sharing
that
with
us
this
morning.
You
know
we
look
forward
to
working
with
you
all
again
on
finding
more
solutions
to
help
kentucky
counties
specifically
regarding
coal
and
mineral
severance,
our
request.
You
know,
because
we
always
come
wanting
something
right.
Our
request
to
this
committee
for
the
22
budget
session
is
just
to
continue
the
same
mantra
by
returning
mineral
and
cold
severance
back
to
the
local
communities,
regardless
of
the
circumstances
of
the
outcome
we
are
are
proud
of
this
committee's
work.
I
I
So
again,
thank
you
all
for
working
with
us
and
giving
us
this
time,
and
I
will
say
that
a
lot
of
the
things
I
know
judge
mosley
talked
about
eastern
kentucky,
but
very
much
of
those
same
things
are
used
in
western
kentucky
to
help
with
with
our
budgets.
Just
the
same
so
we're
all
looking
for
for
ways
to
provide.
You
know
what
we
need
for
for
our
people
specifically
with
us.
I
It
is
our
senior
citizens
and
trying
to
make
sure
that
we
take
care
of
our
senior
citizens,
and
so
that
is
a
huge
part
of
what
we
use
our
severance,
especially
mineral
severance
for.
I
And
I
also
would
like
to
say,
while
I
have
the
opportunity
well,
I
have
the
the
mic
as
they
say
that
it's
good
to
see
chairman
nemus.
This
morning
I
met
chairman
nimas.
He
came
to
webster
county
back
in
2017
and
we
had
a
hundred
year
anniversary
of
kentucky's
worst
mine
explosion
in
kentucky
history.
I
It
was
at
the
number
seven
mine
killed
63
coal
miners,
mostly
african-american
coal
miners
that
had
came
up
to
kentucky
looking
for
work,
and
so
we
discovered
a
lot
of
heritage
on
that,
and
so
it
was
a
very
good
day.
A
Yes,
it
opened
minds
up
on
a
lot
of.
We
had
to
call
experts
out
of
ohio
back
then
for
safety,
so
I
hope
we've
gone
a
long
way
from
there
and
the
food
was
very
good
that
day
yeah
we
try
to
feed
you.
F
F
Hearing
about
your
representative
gooch,
I
I
just
want
to
say
you
know,
the
the
industry
of
coal
has
been
a
very
important
part
of
kentucky's
history
and
it
provided
a
great
deal
of
of
jobs
and
we
make
and
there's
that
transition,
and
so
we
really
do
need
to
be
working
with
the
counties
as
they
try
to
prepare
for
attracting
new
businesses
and
and
promoting
what
is
good,
particularly
about
those
regions
which
produce
coal
turning
it
into
an
area
like
north
carolina
has
done
where
you
have
people
coming
in
looking
at
the
festivals
and
all
those
things
that
take
place,
and
we
do
have
those
things
across
kentucky.
F
How
many
I
just
want
to
know
this,
because
I'm
not
familiar
with
a
great
deal
of
it,
but
how
many
counties
are
impacted
when
we
talk
about
cold
and
mineral
rights,
how
many
counties
of
the
120
are
impacted.
H
I
can
take
that.
Thank
you
for
the
question,
mr
representative,
my
state
representative,
proud
of
him.
We've
we've
got
there's
about
a
hundred
counties
in
the
state
that
receive
some
sort
of
mineral
funds.
I
think
it's
like
101
to
be
exact,
and
then
on
the
coal
side.
There
are
26
counties
right
now
that
are
considered
what
we
call
producers,
which
is
where
there's
an
active
coal
mine.
H
K
Gooch,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
it's
great
to
see
my
county
judge
judge
henry
here
today
and
he's
really
kind
of
been
a
quick
study
on
the
all
of
this
coal
and
and
and
mineral
severance,
and
he
does
a
good
job
with
that.
K
Sometimes
I
actually
go
to
him
and
ask
the
questions
when
it
probably
should
have
been
the
other
way
around,
but
I
know
that
he
keeps
up
with
it,
but
I
want
to
thank
our
our
all
of
our
colleagues
here,
because
you
know
there,
as
you
said,
there's
just
a
few
counties
that
are
actually
co-producing
counties
and
it's
it's
all
of
you
who
have
really
voted
to
share
that
with
with
with
the
counties,
and
you
know
when
the
law
was
set
originally
back
at
a
time
when
muhlenberg
county
was
the
number
one
coal
producing
county
in
the
country.
K
I
mean
there
were
a
lot.
There
were
10
times
as
much
cold
severance
then,
probably
as
there
is
now-
and
it
was
always
set
up
that
temp-
that
half
of
that
money
was
going
to
come
back
to
coal,
producing
counties
specifically
for
economic
development.
Some
other
things.
K
Quality
of
life
is
used,
and
that
didn't
happen,
and
it
never
happened,
and
it's
only
been
the
recent
years
where
we're
actually
giving
the
money
back
to
the
coal
producing
counties,
and
it's
just
sad
that
it's
at
a
time
when
you
know
the
revenues
are
so
low,
but
neither
let
nevertheless
I
can
tell
you
as
they've
said
today,
you
know
those
monies
are
still
are
being
used
to
help
the
quality
of
life,
specifically
ambulance
service,
senior,
citizen
services
and
those
sort
of
things
that
the
counties
would
not
probably
be
able
to
do.
K
Were
it
not
for
this
money.
So
thank
you,
colleagues,
for
the
help
you
give
us
in
the
past,
and
I
hope
that
we'll
continue,
probably
on
the
same
formula
again,
it
certainly
would
be
beneficial
to
to
these
counties.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
If
not,
I
have
a
couple.
Things
is
the
mineral
tax
representative
leader
miles,
and
I
were
talking
about
on
rock
quarries
that
the
out
of
state
coming
in
with
the
gravel
for
the
roads
and
that
don't
pay
the
mineral
tax?
Can
you
address
that
some.
H
Sure
I'd
be
glad
to
take
it
from
what
I
know
about
that.
We
we
hear
that
some
from
from
in-state
industries
that
that
we
need
to
check
with
probably
the
crush
stone
association,
but
we
hear
that
some
representative
miles
has
filed
a
bill.
There's
been
other
bills
filed
in
the
past,
regarding,
regarding
a
fairness
of
that
of
that
tax,
to
be
to
be
assessed
on
out
of
state
for
sure,
there's
been
some
pushback
from
other
industries
as
well.
There's
some
there's
a
lot
of
folks
that
use
lyme
in
kentucky.
H
So
there's
both
sides
to
to
that
argument,
and
that
story,
but
I
mean
we're
all
we're
open
to
anything
that
this
general
assembly
would
like
to
discuss
and
as
as
we
move
forward.
Mr
chairman
we'd
be
glad
to
take
a
look
at
that
issue
and
and
help
come
up
with
a
solution.
That's
palatable
for
for
everybody.
A
Yeah,
if
you
would
I'd
appreciate
that
we'll
we'll
be
talking
about
that,
the
next
is
when
I
was
at
the
labor
cabinet,
where
coal
industry
came
and
they
were
having
trouble
with
the
pneumoconiosis
funds,
and
it
took
a
while
for
me
to
be
able
to
pronounce
that
for
most
people
that
just
black
since
kimi
has
pretty
much
taken
over
that.
A
H
I
Well,
you
know
it's
always
been
asked
you
know.
Do
you
have?
Are
your
your
marbles
when
you
go
every
day
and
put
your
head
between
two
rocks
and
that's
basically
what
an
underground
coal
miner
does.
So
I
don't
know
a
politician
or
which
one
would
be
the
best
there
at
times,
but
I
do
think
that
to
answer
the
question
it
has
helped
from
my
understanding
just
talking
with
some
of
the
co-operators
that
you
know
it
has
helped
with
some
of
the
cost
of
being
able
to
offset
that.
I
You
know
we
one
of
the
things
that
you're
also
seeing,
though,
is
you
know,
the
workforce
of
the
coal
miner
is
is
getting
on
up
in
age
just
because
there's
other
things
doing
other
industries
coming
in
and
so
you're
seeing
a
lot
of
older
coal
miners.
So
how
that
all
is
affected
going
forward.
I
You
know
I'm
not
sure
in
length
of
being
in
the
minds
and
an
incentive
to
stay
in
the
mines
rather
than
to
retire,
so
not
really
sure
how
that's
going
to
go,
and
I
will
say
I
didn't
retire
from
the
coal
mines,
not
quite
there
yet
on
retirement.
Yet
but
I
just
took
a
leave
of
absence
to
be
county
judge
executive.
So
we'll
see
how
long
that
leave
of
absence
is
so.
I
I
love
to
visit
I
love
to
visit,
I
love
to
visit,
but
no,
I
like
what
I'm
doing.
K
If
you
might
indulge
me
for
a
minute
for
a
little
history,
one
of
the
first
bills
that
I
had
when
I
came
here,
I
think
for
the
96
session-
was
to
make
coal
the
official
state
mineral,
and
at
that
time
I
was
told
by
several
people
that
were
a
little
more
technical,
that
coal
was
actually
not
a
mineral,
and
I
said
well,
we
probably
need
you
probably
don't
want
to
go
there,
because
a
lot
of
people
are
paying
unmined,
minerals,
taxes
on
the
coal
in
the
ground
and
and
we're
taxing
it
as
as
as
a
mind
member
when
it's
mine.
K
A
Well,
if
there
are
no
further
questions,
if
anybody
came
in
remotely
after
the
roll
call,
if
you'll
let
staff
know
that
you're
you're
here.