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A
Good
morning
and
welcome
to
the
second
meeting
of
the
interim
joint
committee
budget
review
subcommittee
on
justice
and
judiciary,
a
couple
topics
we're
going
to
cover
this
morning.
The
first
one
is
dealing
with
the
state
medical
examiner's
office,
the
northern
kentucky
and
kind
of
get
some
perspective
on
that
dr
ralston
and
miss
norton.
A
If
you
all
want
to
just
come
on
up
to
the
to
the
desk,
please
and
then
we're
going
to
hear
from
dlcjt
regarding
a
couple
of
projects
they
have
going
on
the
first
being
the
new
indoor
fire
range
that
we
appropriated
funds
for
in
last
session
and
then
also
the
proposed
west
kentucky
training
facility
and
kind
of
see
where
they
are
with
that
and
the
the
study
that
we
required
as
part
of
that
and
kind
of
get
an
update
on
that
and
dr
austin
and
ms
norton.
A
A
So
what
I
would
ask
of
you
all
today
and
I
know
you
don't-
have
a
powerpoint,
but
if,
if
and
if
you've
got
something
prepared
that
you
want
to
go
by,
please
ignore
what
I'm
about
to
say.
But
if
you
could
just
kind
of
give
some
history
of
the
northern
kentucky
office
and
some
overview
and
what
I
would
like
to
do
with
this
is
kind
of
go
over.
A
The
funds
and
the
legislation
have
been
passed.
The
last
two
or
three
years
and
kind
of
see
where,
where
you
all
are
in
the
medical
examiner's
office
and
and
what
the
plans
are
with
the
money
that
has
been
allocated
for
that
office
and
your
workloads
and
that
type
of
thing.
Okay-
and
if
you
all,
would
please
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
you
have
the
floor
and
thank
you
for
being
here.
A
D
A
Okay,
before
we
get
started,
we're
going
to
go
ahead
and
get
this
out
of
the
way
I
would
entertain
minutes.
We
have
a.
I
have
a
motion
in
a
second
all.
Those
in
favor,
please
signify
by
saying
aye
opposed
no
motion
carries
minutes
are
approved,
dr
rosten,
I
do
apologize
for
that.
Miss
norton,
you
all
have
the
floor.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you,
chairman
carol.
Before
we
begin
I'd
like
to
thank
governor
beshear
and
the
general
assembly
for
their
continued
support
for
continued
operations
of
the
medical
examiner's
office
and
as
we
work
to
reopen
the
medical
examiner's
office
in
northern
kentucky,
it's
a
necessary
step
for
us
to
continue
critic
to
provide
critical
services
in
a
timely
manner
and
meet
the
needs
of
kentuckians
oftentimes
in
their
darkest
moments.
E
E
A
brief
background
of
myself.
I
was
born
and
raised
in
louisville.
Kentucky
then
left
to
attend
xavier
university
in
cincinnati
ohio.
Ultimately,
returning
to
kentucky
to
to
attend
the
university
of
louisville
school
of
medicine
following
completion
of
medical
school,
I
then
entered
into
training
programs
in
anatomic
and
forensic
pathology,
a
five-year
training
program
following
completion
of
that
training.
I
was
a
state
medical
examiner
for
many
years.
E
During
that
time,
I
eventually
left
kentucky
becoming
the
chief
deputy
coroner
senior
forensic
pathologist
for
hamilton
county
ohio
during
that
time
in
ohio.
However,
I
remained
true
to
kentucky,
as
I
remained
a
kentucky
resident
and
in
addition
to
that,
I
and
my
family
made
personal
sacrifices
as
I
performed
post
quorum
examinations
in
the
northern
kentucky
office,
in
an
attempt
to
maintain
its
viability,
foregoing
and
superseding
fatherhood
and
being
a
husband.
E
Most
people
don't
fully
realize
the
work
that
our
state
medical
examiners
do,
nor
their
impact
on
families,
communities
and
the
criminal
justice
system.
The
osme
serves
all
kentuckians
by
providing
accurate,
thorough
and
efficient
medical
legal
investigations
of
death.
We
perform
death
investigations
and
post-war
examinations
currently
across
three
regional
offices
throughout
the
state
and
assist
kentucky
coroners
and
law
enforcement
agencies
in
all
aspects
of
death
investigations.
E
Our
office
also
addresses
public
health
issues
by
identifying
diseases
and
hazards
that
potentially
could
put
kentuckians
at
risk.
Our
work
is
critical
in
step
in
ensuring
justice
and
providing
solace,
comfort
and
protection
for
the
living.
So
far
in
2002
we
have
performed
post-mortem
examinations
across
the
commonwealth.
E
In
2021
we
performed
two
thousand
seven
hundred
and
eighty-six
post-mortem
examinations
annually.
We
are
involved
in
well
over
five
thousand
death
investigations
across
the
commonwealth
in
2021
governor
beshear,
signed
house
bill,
382
and
house
bill
192,
which
provided
funding
for
reopening
a
northern
kentucky
medical
examiner's
office
through
both
one-time
funding
and
continued
funds
in
2022
governor
beshear
signed
house
bill
1,
which
reauthorized
the
one-time
and
continued
funding
from
the
previous
year.
E
Reopening
the
northern
kentucky
office
will
have
positive
impacts
throughout
the
commonwealth.
Without
this
office,
cases
from
northern
kentucky
are
sent
throughout
the
state.
Increasing
caseloads
on
existing
regional
medical
examiner's
office
that
are
already
over
capacity.
The
northern
kentucky
location
will
provide
year-round,
accessibility
and
anticipates
receiving
well
over
500
examinations
annually
for
grieving
families
in
this
region.
E
It
will
reduce
the
need
to
transport,
their
loved
ones,
100
miles
or
more
to
the
louisville
or
frankfurt
offices
for
examination
and
back
home
prior
to
the
funeral
and
burial
law
enforcement
and
other
investigative
agencies
will
also
save
on
associated
travel
expenses
and
resources
order
to
open
a
new
office.
We
must
first
be
able
to
staff
it
if
we
were
to
open
a
facility
without
having
the
proper
staff,
taxpayers
would
be
paying
for
the
operation
of
an
empty
building.
E
Securing
staffing
ensures
that
we
are
able
to
open
the
facility
and
be
able
to
staff
it
saving
the
taxpayers.
Money
recruiting
and
retaining
qualified
and
talented
staff
is
a
key
priority
for
the
office
of
the
medical
examiner,
both
at
our
current
locations
and
at
a
northern
kentucky
location.
Not
many
people
could
do
the
work
that
we
do.
E
B
Good
morning,
thank
you
for
having
us
here
today,
I'm
going
to
go
through
some
of
the
most
recent
legislation,
the
house
bills
that
have
passed
and
the
budget
line,
items
that
are
specific
to
the
medical
examiner's
office
and
where
we
are
with
those
and
what
the
status
of
those
are
today.
So
legislature
passed
house
bill
192
during
2021,
which
appropriated
50
000
in
2021
and
325
000
in
2022,
and
that
was
for
the
realignment
of
staffing
to
address
caseloads.
B
The
medical
examiner's
office
used
that
funding
to
convert
two
part-time
positions:
two
part-time
medical,
examiner
positions
to
two
full-time
positions.
So
when
house
bill
192
was
finalized.
In
april,
the
state
medical
examiner's
office
had
14
full-time
employees
as
of
july
1
of
2022.
B
2021
house
bill
192
also
included
an
appropriation
of
nine
hundred
thousand
dollars
in
restricted
funds
to
support
toxicology
needs.
The
medical
examiner's
office
utilized
that
appropriation
to
accept
funding
from
the
office
of
drug
control
policy
to
pay
for
toxicology
testing
during
fy
22.
B
So
the
1.8
million
in
one-time
cost
funding
will
carry
forward
into
fy
23
per
house
bill
1..
When
looking
at
our
final
numbers
for
fy
22,
it
does
show
that
the
medical
examiner's
office
had
3.9
million
dollars
unspent
in
fy
22
and
that's
inclusive
of
that
1.8
million.
So
those
funds
to
establish
and
operate
that
office
were
not
spent
in
the
previous
year
and
they
were
continued
into
the
current
year.
B
Justice
cabinet
submitted
a
request
as
dr
ralston
referenced
to
the
personnel
cabinet
for
approval
of
proposed
salaries
and
additional
positions
using
the
increased
funding
from
house
bill
one,
and
that
proposal
inc
did
include
a
comparison
of
salaries
for
pathologists
and
autopsy
technicians
within
kentucky
and
within
surrounding
states.
Those
increases
were
made
effective
yesterday,
the
salary
increase
brings
current
pathologist
salaries
to
236
thousand
dollars
and
autopsy
technician,
salaries
to
50
400
dollars,
a
justice
cabinet
and
office
of
the
state.
B
B
Their
current
grade
is
an
11,
and
so
that
limits
their
midpoint
if
we
bring
them
in
at
midpoint,
plus
five
percent
after
their
probation
that
limits
them
to
forty
four
thousand
dollars.
So
we
would
like
to
bring
them
be
able
to
get
them
to
the
point
where
they
would
be
have
a
level
of
equity
with
anyone
who
was
able
to
receive
the
increases.
B
Yesterday
and
finally
house
bill
1
authorized
the
justice
cabinet
to
establish
a
lease
in
fy
23
for
the
new
northern
kentucky
medical
examiner's
location,
we're
working
closely
with
the
finance
and
administration
cabinet's
department
of
facilities
and
support
services
to
determine
the
best
method
for
procurement
of
a
lease
space,
as
well
as
the
pretty
significant
subsequent
fit
up.
That
would
be
required
for
that
space.
B
So
I
think
that
summarizes
the
the
previous
budget
information.
Is
there
anything
that
I
might
have
missed.
A
No
okay
and
so
this
issue
and
with
the
funding
that
the
legislature
appropriated.
A
Covers
different
areas,
the
estab
re-establishment
of
the
center,
the
office
in
northern
kentucky
and
and
then
initially
the
reallocation,
the
restructuring
to
to
address
current
caseloads.
So
can
you
can
you
speak
and
kind
of
focus
in
on
with
the
funds
that
were
appropriated?
What
have
you
all
done
to
to
make
adjustments
until
the
northern
kentucky
office
is
open?
I
know
there
were
some
hires
of
contract
contractual
folks,
but
talk
about
case
loads.
Are
they
I'm
assuming,
especially
in
louisville
northern
area
northern
part
of
the
state?
A
E
Well,
what
has
been
done
is
using
that
funding.
Certainly,
we
have
now
created
salaries
which
will
give
us
the
ability
to
retain
current
staffing.
To
be
quite
frank,
the
salaries
prior
to
receiving
this
funding
were
at
the
level
that
we
were
about
to
lose
numerous
staff,
both
forensic
pathologists
and
autopsy
technicians,
so
that
allowed
us
to
retain
that
current
fund
current
the
current
staff,
as
well
as
as
rebecca
pointed
out,
we
have
increased
the
number
of
staff.
E
Our
staffing
was
but
well
below,
nationally
accepted
levels,
and
so
we've
added
autopsy
technicians
and
forensic
pathologist
positions
at
all
locations
which
we
are
current
currently
recruiting.
Four,
in
addition
to
that,
there
is
funding
that
has
been
set
aside
in
anticipation
of
hiring
appropriate
staffing
at
competitive
salaries
in
the
northern
kentucky
office
when
a
location
is
is
identified,
the
numbers,
as
you
said,
senator
carroll
are
not
decreasing.
E
I
don't
have
specific
numbers
that
seem
to
kind
of
grow
exponentially
a
few
years
ago,
and
we've
remained
consistently
at
the
2
800
3
000
cases
per
year
level
over
the
last
several
years
across
the
commonwealth,
with
increases
at
virtually
every
office,
and
so
that's
what
we've
currently
done
in
terms
of
staffing.
E
It
was
an
addition
of
of
staffing
to
address
those
caseloads
and
put
kentucky
within
kind
of
the
national
standard
of
of
staffing
numbers
and
salaries.
F
Thank
you
all
for
being
here
and
it's
great
to
see
on
the
subcommittee.
We
have
great
representation
from
northern
kentucky
this
morning,
and
I
know
this
is
a.
F
This
is
a
topic
that
is
very
much
on
the
minds
of
people
in
northern
kentucky,
especially
our
corners
in
law
enforcement.
What
is
the
project?
When
is
the
facility
in
northern
kentucky
projected
to
be
open
for
business.
B
E
I
looked
earlier
this
week
at
the
the
job
board,
if
you
will
for
forensic
pathologists,
there's
51
positions
across
the
country,
many
of
which
are
within
the
region,
the
seven
contiguous
states
and
we're
talking
about
a
workforce
nationally
of
less
than
400
people,
and
so
you
know,
one
one-eighth
of
the
workforce
could
pick
up
and
leave
tomorrow
and
be
employed
somewhere
else.
That
will
be
our
biggest
hurdle
follow-up.
Mr
chairman,.
F
Thank
you
well
for
thank
you
again,
because
this
is
great
great
news
for
us.
We
had
legislation
in
general
assembly,
we
passed
that
legislation,
but
again
I
ask
you
to
give
it
give
me
a
time,
a
frame
of
reference
here,
we're
talking
a
month
a
year
six
months.
This
is
a
rather
urgent
situation
and
we
would
just
like
to
have
some
sort
of
time
frame
of
what
we're
talking
about
to
get
this
facility
online.
B
B
Once
we
have
a
location
secured
and
we
can
get
a
approximate
timeline
on
how
long
it
will
take
to
fill
it
with
equipment
and
do
the
necessary
fit
up,
and
I
think,
based
on
that
information,
you
know
we'll
be
able
to
start
advertising
for
hiring
as
soon
as
possible
once
we
know
that
so
we'd
be
happy
to
follow
up
with
you
and
provide
that.
Unfortunately,
I
just
I
don't
know
that
I
can
give
you
a
very
concrete
number
follow-up.
F
Mr
chairman,
thank
you.
I
have
to
tell
you
it's
rather
frustrating
because
we've
been
at
this
for
a
while.
Now
the
legislature
has
done
what
it
was
asked
to
do
and
for
you
not
even
to
be
able
to
give
us
a
rough
time
frame
that
I
can
go
back
to
with
the
to
the
corners
in
northern
kentucky
is
rather
frustrating.
A
Can
you
all
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
type
of
facility
that
you're
looking
for
what?
What
are
the
requirements
of
this
facility
and-
and
I
know
that
the
initially
the
office
that
the
the
the
facility
that
the
office
was
previously
in,
is
no
longer
available,
correct
and
and
does
it
have
to
be
in
some
type
of
medical
designed
building
facility?
B
I'll
let
dr
ralston
talk
specifically
maybe
about
the
requirements
for
the
buildings.
There
are
some
very
specific
needs
as
far
as
fit
up
and
ventilation
systems.
Things
like
that.
E
Well,
certainly,
the
building
itself
would
would
need
to
be
of
an
appropriate
size
or
the
structure
or
the
facility
would
need
to
be
of
an
appropriate
size
which
recommendations
and
space
requirements
have
been
provided
to
real
properties
and
based
upon
our
current
offices,
as
well
as
literate,
scientific
studies
and
literature,
as
well
as
parameters
set
by
a
national
institute
of
justice,
funded
scientific
working
group
on
medical
death
investigation,
the
requ,
the
additional
requirements.
E
Certainly
it
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
start
off
as
a
medical
grade
facility,
but
ultimately
that's
what
it's
got
to
become.
The
ventilation
has
to
be
such
it's,
not
your
standard
office
building,
ventilation,
it's
not
your
standard
office
building.
Plumbing
there's
needs
for
walls
with
lead
shielding
for
for
radiology
purposes.
The
cost
of
some
of
just
of
the
interior,
for
example,
an
autopsy
table
costs
about
26
thousand
dollars
that
and
we
would
need
at
least
three,
maybe
four
in
an
office
to
support
that
size.
Population
an
x-ray
machine.
E
The
going
rate
for
the
current
model
that
is
being
installed
in
newer
medical
examiner's
office
runs
about
a
half
a
million
dollars.
So
there
are
some
specific
needs.
Certainly,
those
needs
have
been
identified
and
given
to
real
properties
and
the
finance
and
administration
cabinet
for
evaluation
of
possible
properties.
A
A
B
A
A
B
My
comment
to
that
would
be
that
we
are
doing
our
best
to
make
sure
that
we're,
following
all
the
finance
cabinet
policies
and
procedures
for
establishment
of
the
lease
and
that
sort
of
allows
first
leads
us
to
allow
them
to
take
the
lead.
We're,
certainly
not
the
experts
on
leasing,
and
should
it
be
determined
that
there
is
an
estate
or
a
local
government
owned.
You
know
property
that
would
be
suitable,
or
maybe
it's
just
too
costly
to
renovate
for
use.
Then
real
properties
would
have
to
proceed
with
a
public
solicitation
for
a
lease.
B
So
that's
why
we've
been
cautious
with
making
sure
that
any
communications
we
have
with
potential.
You
know
locations
that
we're
not
giving
too
much
information
that
could
give
somebody
an
advantage,
or
that
would
you
know,
violate
any
procurement
rules
as
far
as
having
to
possibly
do
that
public
solicitation
for
the
lease.
C
C
Building
there
and
the
university
of
kentucky
medical
school
has
leased
out
a
significant
space
in
that
area
for
to
educate
about
20
students,
medical
students
per
year.
I
think
the
synergy
would
be
great
with
with
a
pathology
orientation
that
that
you
would
lend
to
that
institution.
C
F
A
follow-up
sir,
I
do
I
I
don't,
I
don't
mean
to
beat
a
dead
horse,
but
I'm
going
to
the
chairman
mcdaniel,
I
think,
did
a
real
good
job
in
the
budget
in
with
the
legislature
explaining
to
us
what
we
needed
to
do
to
get
this
job
done.
We
had
an
outcry
from
law
enforcement
and
from
the
corners
in
northern
kentucky.
F
Jeremy
mcdaniel
took
a
personal
interest
in
this.
We
did
this,
we
put
it
in
the
budget,
we
passed
it
and
I
just
you
know.
For
me,
this
is
just
unacceptable
procurement
rules
are,
are,
are
important
and
need
to
be
followed,
but,
but
you
know
we
got
the
tailwag
and
the
dog
here.
We
need
this
lab
opened
and
we
need
it
open
soon.
E
As
I
said,
there's
there's
a
lot
of
moving
parts
and
and
a
lot
of
hurdles
to
overcome,
the
largest
of
which
is
going
to
be
recruitment
of
forensic
pathologists.
E
Well
until
yesterday
the
salaries
were
so
poor
and
I'll
be
frank.
As
of
two
days
ago,
the
current
offered
salary
to
a
state
medical
examiner
was
126
thousand
dollars.
E
I
will
tell
you
that
today
there
is
a
job
available
in
at
least
two
of
two
no
at
least
three
of
the
contiguous
states
that
start
at
250,
000
or
more,
and
so
it
was
we
weren't
going
to
get
anybody
looking
in
addition
to
that,
there's
a
national
shortage
less
than
400
across
the
united
states
and
there's
40
or
less
being
produced
each
year.
E
That's
how
many
new
forensic
pathology
trainees
come
out
on
a
yearly
basis,
so
we're
now
going
to
start
publicizing
for
the
the
additional
forensic
pathologists
in
the
current
offices,
as
well
as
as
soon
as
we
have
an
estimated
date
of
completion
for
a
northern
kentucky
facility.
Our
intent
is
to
begin
to
post
and
recruit
for
those
positions
within
a
northern
kentucky
office.
A
And
dr
also,
what's
your
sense
with
with
the
funds
that
have
been
appropriated
in
the
raises
and
in
the
pay
with
these
and
then
the
the
the
additional
raises
that
were
approved
through
the
budget?
Do
you
feel
like
that's
going
to
be
enough
to
to
get
you
all
where
you
need
to
be
in,
in
speaking
with
the
current
staff
that
you
have?
What
was
their
reaction
to
the
raises
that
were
appropriated
and
do
they
do
you?
Do
they
feel
comfortable
with
that?
A
E
It's
it's
it's
a
comparable
salary,
there's
some
salaries
that
are
that
are
greater
there's,
some
salaries
that
are
less,
and
so
certainly
what
we
have
to
do
as
a
medical
examiner's
office
is
put
forth
a
package
that
includes
not
only
a
relatively
comparable
salary
but
a
a
appealing,
a
location
with
appeal
in
a
part
of
the
country
that,
frankly,
I
love,
but
we've
got
to
make
it
overall
an
appealing
presentation
to
any
potential
candidate
that
may
be
considering
employment
within
kentucky,
but
in
terms
of
the
current
staff,
they
too
are
very
grateful
for
what
was
provided
by
you
all.
A
E
Well:
well,
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
the
equipment
was
moved
to
the
current,
the
current
offices
louisville
and
frankfurt
for
in
an
effort
to
handle
the
increased
caseloads
that
that
have
that
have
risen
since
2016..
E
C
C
How
will
you
will
you
have
to
rotate
folks
from
other
labs
into
northern
kentucky
and
will
that
cause
issues
at
the
current
existing
labs,
because
the
numbers
that
you've
given
are
pretty
dire
in
terms
of
recruiting
forensic
pathologists?
So
I
guess
the
point
I
would
make
is
it'd
be
great
to
have
it
open
very
soon,
as
as
you
know,
my
colleagues
from
northern
kentucky
are
advocating
for,
but
if
you
can't
have
that
lab
properly
staffed,
really
of
what
benefit
isn't
until
you're
able
to
get
to
that
point,.
E
I
would
agree
with
your
final
statement:
if
we're
unable
to
staff
it
we're
paying
for
an
empty
empty
office,
an
empty
building
in
terms
of
how
we
would
staff
it.
Certainly,
the
the
primary
intent
would
be
to
have
the
ability
to
hire
a
staff
which
is
appropriately
staffing
a
northern
kentucky
office.
Certainly
beyond
that,
we
might
have
to
get
a
bit
creative,
to
say
the
least,
and
certainly
the
currently
employed
staff.
E
We're
not
we
wouldn't
be
appropriately
staffed
to
even
do
that.
We'd
be
the
proverbial
stealing
from
peter
to
pay
paul,
leaving
offices
elsewhere
in
the
state
way
understaffed
as
well
we're
now
getting
to
the
level
of
appropriate
staffing
anything
below
that.
E
So,
if
we
were
to,
you
know
rotate
staff,
if
you
will,
but
certainly
hiring
additional
staff
anywhere
in
the
state,
may
give
us
the
ability
to
then
rotate
staff
and,
as
I
said,
we
have
in
our
in
the
current
budget
allocations
positions,
three
forensic
pathology
positions,
three
autopsy
technician,
positions
and
one
administrative
position
with
funding
allocated
specifically
for
those
seven
positions
within
the
northern
kentucky
office.
E
C
C
This
is
rushed
up
to
some
extent.
You
don't
have
the
staff
there.
C
A
A
All
of
that
and
it's
you
look
at
police
departments
across
the
state,
their
explorer
programs
they're
full
of
kids
that
that
are
chomping
at
the
bit
to
to
learn
more
about
what
you
all
do.
I
can
remember
sending
one
student
to
the
lab
to
to
do
a
shadow
visit
there.
So
do
you
all
make
a
positive
effort
and
proactive
effort
within
the
colleges
and
universities
to
to
pull
staffing
from
those
places?
A
E
Certainly
we
we,
if,
if
we
get
inquiries
from
students,
certainly
depending
on
the
age
of
the
individual
and
and
their
level
of
education,
we
will
offer
them
some
sort
of
experience
which
may
range
from
just
sitting
down
with
a
medical
examiner
telling
them
what
we
do,
how
we
do
it
things
of
that
nature
to
full-on
shadowing,
if
you
will
experiences
so
we're
doing
our
best
to
promote
this,
certainly
as
you,
as
you
pointed
out,
there's
lots
of
young
young
people
chomping
at
the
bit.
E
I
want
to
learn
about
what
it
takes
to
become
a
forensic
pathologist.
I
will
tell
you
many
of
them,
however,
when
you
tell
them
once
they
reach
their
junior
year
in
high
school
they're
about
halfway
done
with
all
their
schooling,
many
of
them
reconsider.
You
know
it's
quite
a
bit
of
training.
Most
most
of
them
don't
realize
that
we
in
fact
are
physicians.
We
go
to
medical
school
and
then
following
medical
school,
we
go
through
an
additional
five
years
of
training.
E
I
was
31
years
old
when
I
got
my
first
real
job
and
so
many
of
the
many
of
them
while
they're
excited
they
learn
of
that
educational
requirement,
but
we're
doing
our
best
to
promote
the
field
across
the
country.
The
national
association
of
medical
examiners,
american
academy
of
forensic
sciences
are
doing
making
efforts
to
promote
forensic
science.
Forensic
pathology,
medical
examiners
across
the
country
are
working
to
try
to
increase
the
capacity
and,
frankly,
it's
something
that
the
federal
government
has
put
forth
several
investigations
on
how
we
can
increase
the
workforce
within
the
death
investigation
system.
E
A
B
I
believe
we
submitted
the
request
towards
the
end
of
session,
or
we
worked
together
with
to
develop
what
numbers
would
be
appropriate.
Dr
ralston
and
his
group
were
certainly
helpful
in
helping
us
to
put
together
sort
of
a
justification,
as
well
as
a
comparison
of
both
pathology
salaries
between
kentucky
and
the
surrounding
states,
as
well
as
the
autopsy
technician,
salaries
compared
to
kentucky
and
the
surrounding
states.
B
So
that
information
was
put
together
and
it
was
actually
revised
and
updated
at
the
end
of
session,
because
I
believe
something
similar
was
submitted
with
the
original
budget
request.
So
those
items
were
put
together.
I
would
have
to
go
back
to
pull
the
exact
dates
of
when
items
were
submitted,
but
I
do
believe
they
were
submitted
for
approval
towards
the
end
of
the
previous
fiscal.
A
Year,
I
guess
what
I'm
sensing
from
some
with
committee
members
is
just
a
frustration
and
and
and
dr
austin-
and
I
I
know
that
you
all
want
this
hoping
as
quickly
as
we
can
get
it.
I
respect
that.
A
We
feel
that
all
across
this
commonwealth
and
in
the
country-
and
I
get
that-
and
I
found
out
in
the
organization
that
I'm
running
we're
having
to
be
very
creative
on
how
to
get
folks
into
our
organization-
and
I
would
challenge
you
all
to
do
the
same-
to
reach
out
to
places
you
haven't
reached
out
to
before
and
create
networks
that
you've
never
really
thought
about
before.
A
But
it
is
a
challenge,
but
from
a
law
enforcement
perspective
from
an
investigator's
perspective,
there's
nothing
any
more
important
than
what
you
all
do,
because
the
homicides
are.
You
know
the
top
two
or
three
most
important
cases
that
we
worked
as
investigators
and
without
you
all
we
don't
get
convictions
on
those
cases.
So
you
know
your
value
is
is
not
in
any
question
whatsoever.
A
We
want
to
help
you
all
make
this
happen
and
we
thought
we
had
done
that
with
the
appropriations,
because
we've
given
everything,
that's
been
asked,
but
we're
not
seeing
any
progress
and
and
the
quite
frankly
and
and
the
secretary
is
a
good
friend
of
mine
from
the
time
I
was
a
little
little
boy.
I've
known
him
his
letter
to
serve
as
a
report
was
a
little
bit
disappointing.
A
It
did
not
really
answer
anything
and
I
hope
that
as
we
move
forward,
there
will
be
a
more
thorough,
updated
reports
on
where
we're
going
with
this,
and
so
we
can
we
can
follow.
This
is
not
an
issue
that
we're
going
to
make
decisions
on
and
it's
forgotten.
Three
months
later,
we
can't
it's
got
to
move
forward
and
if
we
need
to
to
work
with
the
finance
cabinet
to
expedite
some
things-
and
I
know
our
membership
is
willing
to
do
that-
are
there
any
other
questions
on
this
topic.
A
A
Okay,
mr
jackson,
it's
raider
miss
linton.
If
you
all
could
come
forward,
please.
I
see
two
of
three.
A
Okay,
okay,
so
the
update
today
is
is
regarding
the
the
firing
range
project
and
then
also
just
an
update
on
actions
towards
the
regional
training
center
in
west
kentucky.
And
I
would
please
ask
you
to
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
you
have
the
floor.
G
Thank
you
senator
carroll.
My
name
is
keith
jackson,
deputy
secretary
of
justice
and
public
safety.
I
want
to
thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
present
outside
I'm
actually
in
annapolis,
maryland
at
a
conference,
so
I'm
very
appreciative
for
the
opportunity
to
to
not
be
in
the
off
in
the
in
the
room
with
you,
but
with
that
good
morning,
and
thank
you
for
having
us
here
today
to
talk
about
the
work
of
the
kentucky
justice,
public
and
safety
cabinet
and
the
department
of
criminal
justice.
G
I
want
to
first
express
my
gratitude
on
behalf
of
the
cabinet,
for
the
legislature
appropriating
and
for
expanding
training
opportunities
on
behalf
of
the
cabinet
across
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
governor
beshear
has
made
historic
investments
in
our
public
safety
officers
and
agencies
in
kentucky
and
modernizing
criminal
justice
remains
a
priority
for
this
administration.
G
These
line
items
that
governor
percier
recommended
and
the
legislative
legislature
provided
in
2022
2823
budget
will
make
training
more
accessible
and
more
useful
for
those
in
uniform
who
are
responding
to
crisis
every
day.
As
you
know,
the
ocjt
provides
training
to
city
and
county
police
officers,
sheriff
deputies,
university,
police
and
airport
police
throughout
the
state.
G
I
want
to
be
clear
that
the
new
facility
in
western
kentucky
would
not
replace
the
the
current
doc
jt
stock
site
in
richmond
kentucky.
Instead,
it
would
serve
as
another
resource
for
kentucky
law
enforcement
to
receive
exceptional
training
for
future
generations
to
come
for
those
law
enforcement
agencies
located
in
western
kentucky
in
the
western
half
of
the
state,
there
is
an
added
benefit
of
still
receiving
top
tier
training
and
remaining
closer
to
home.
G
The
justice
and
public
safety
cabinet
is
working
closely
with
the
finance
administration
cabinet.
On
this
effort
and
a
request
for
proposal
was
issued
and
awarded
to
eop
architects
to
conduct
a
study
in
western
kentucky,
eop
has
begun
the
process
and
we'll
have,
until
the
end
of
september,
to
present
their
research.
G
At
this
time,
no
site
has
been
chosen
or
designated
as
we
are
still
determining
the
needs.
The
feasibility
study
will
provide
the
information
and
insight
necessary
to
determine
whether
and
how
we
will
move
forward
in
choosing
the
location.
G
I
will
now
turn
it
over
to
kevin
rader,
a
finance
director
for
doc
jt
to
talk
about
the
progress
on
the
multi-purpose
training
facility
and
we'll
provide
office
that
will
provide
officers.
Real
life
scenarios
to
train
in
a
new
and
improved
firing
range
has
been
essential,
has
been
an
essential
need
for
dlc
jt
for
some
time
and
we're
glad
to
see
this
process
is
moving
forward.
G
A
And
deputy
secretary
I
apologize,
I
did
not
realize
you
were
with
us
remotely
this
morning,
but
thank
you
for
your
testimony
and
I
hope
you're
enjoying
the
the
training
there.
It's
a
beautiful
part
of
the
country.
D
Proceed
good
morning,
mr
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee,
as
deputy
secretary
mentioned,
my
name
is
kevin
rader,
I'm
the
finance
director
at
the
department
of
criminal
justice
training.
Before
I
begin,
I
want
to
provide
a
brief
overview
of
how
we
arrived
at
requesting
a
new
facility
to
conduct
firearms
training.
D
As
I'm
sure
each
of
you
recall
the
last
inspection
of
the
mckinney
firing
range
facilitated
by
the
finance
and
administration,
cabinet's
division
of
engineering
and
contract
administration
and
completed
by
eop
architectural
firm
revealed.
The
facility
is
at
risk
of
catastrophic
failure,
failure
and
has
numerous
safety
hazards.
D
D
Dlcjt
met
with
eop
architecture,
firm's
internal
consultants
and
is
currently
reviewing
program
requirements
to
determine
if
they
are
still
applicable
to
jt
needs.
A
second
meeting
was
held
in
late
july
to
discuss
specific
design
plans
and
needs
dlc
jt
training
operations.
Staff
are
included
in
this
meeting,
as
they
will
be
the
ones
conducting
training
in
the
new
facility.
D
Of
course,
one
of
the
most
critical
components
of
this
project
is
securing
a
site.
Location.
Dlc
jt
is
working
on
the
land
transfer
from
eastern
kentucky
university,
alongside
finance
administration's
division
of
real
properties,
to
finalize
acquisition
of
the
property
where
the
new
range
will
be
built.
D
The
new
28
million
dollar
multi-purpose
training
facility
will
include
a
50-yard
30-lane
firing
range
designed
for
officers
to
learn
and
practice.
De-Escalation
and
interpersonal
communication
skills,
critical
decision
making
under
stress
alternate
response
to
potential
deadly
force,
encounters
team
tactics
and
less
lethal
responses.
D
This
gives
the
training
academy
more
classroom
and
instructional
space
without
causing
any
noise
disruptions
to
the
neighboring
university
and
hospital
campuses.
The
new
indoor
firing
range
and
training
space
will
provide
officers
with
real
life
with
real
life
scenarios
to
prepare
them
for
what
they
will
face
in
uniform
and
is,
unlike
any
other
training
in
the
commonwealth.
D
A
Very
good,
thank
you
very
much,
deputy
secretary.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
with
the
proposed
site
in
west
kentucky?
I
know
the
architects
will
be
looking
more
at
facilities
and
designs
and
that
type
of
thing,
all
the
other
issues
that
you
spoke
about
within
the
feasibility
study,
the
need
the
cost.
A
As
far
as
staffing
who,
who
is
taking
care
of
all
of
those
aspects
of
this
review,.
G
Sir,
we
we
are
looking
at
it
from
a
front
of
as
an
initial
planning
standpoint
working
with
the
staff
of
commissioner
jilly
to
to
identify
all
those
the
issues
relative
to
the
new
potential
training
facility.
We're
meeting
we've
been
meeting
consistently
in
in
preparation
for
the
decision
when
we
once
we
identified
the
location
and
and
understanding
the
impact
of
of
a
place
in
the
facility
in
western
kentucky.
G
You
know
when
we
look
at
when
we
look
at
this.
This
is
a
legacy
build
for
kentucky.
We
look
at
the
the
operational
and
the
generational
impact
that
we'll
have.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
we
get
it
right.
G
So
so
we've
been
intently
intentional
about
reaching
out
to
the
sheriffs
and
departments
in
western
kentucky.
We've
had
doc.
Jt
had
already
done
a
study.
G
We
did
a
follow-up
survey
with
what,
with
the
chiefs
and
sheriffs
in
western
kentucky
and
and
and
got,
we
have
some
numbers
that
will
allow
us
to
in
the
planning
process,
determine
the
impact
it
would
have
on
the
training,
one
of
the
one
of
the
primary
purposes
or
reasons
why
this
occurred
was
the
the
distance
and
the
travel
that
that
the
departments
had
to
send
their
their
officers
and
and
basic
trainees
two
to
three
hours
across
some
in
some
cases,
four
hours
in
the
far
far
parts
of
western
kentucky
to
richmond
and
it
had
an
impact
on
their
operation
along
with
their
administration.
G
So
so,
when
we
look
at
the
direction
we
want
to
go
in,
we
want
to
ensure
that
that
that
we
are
being
positive
in
the
impact
that
it
has
on
the
the
chiefs
and
the
chiefs
and
administrators
in
in
the
western
kentucky
area.
So
on
the
23rd,
we
will
really
delve
into
and
be
able
to
answer
those
questions
for
you.
G
I
think
I
think
we're
looking
at
october
once
the
feasibility
study
is
completed
and
then
we're
hopefully
have
an
opportunity
to
come
back
and
present
to
you.
Some
finalized
numbers
for
that
come
out
of
our
planning
process
over
the
next
30
to
45
days.
G
G
I
apologize
again
my
I
was
stationed
at
fort
campbell,
so
you
think
I
would
know
it
by
now,
but
but
but
yes,
we
have
been
in
direct
contact
with
the
mayor
and,
and
that
has
been
our
focus,
we're
down
to
two
sites
right
now,
I
I
can
say
that
and
we're
determining
whether
those
are
feasible
for
for
the
for
the
future
site.
Yes,
sir,
okay.
A
It
in
the
future
and-
and
I
I
love
this
idea
and
there's
a
lot
of
support
in
in
our
part
of
the
state
for
this,
especially
with
the
local
governments
and
the
chiefs
and
sheriffs,
and
I
am
supportive
of
it-
also,
I'm
still
very
hesitant,
looking
at
all
the
costs
that
are
going
to
be
associated
with
this
and
in
particularly,
I
look
at
it
in
the
future
once
once.
If
we
move
forward
this
and
we
make
the
commitment
it
gets
built,
I
can
see
very
easily.
A
The
next
stages
of
this
will
be
well.
The
west
kentucky
academy
doesn't
have
this
or
this
that
the
academy
that
eastern
has
and
we're
gonna
have
we're.
Gonna
have
two
campuses
that
are
gonna
end
up
mirroring
each
other,
and
if
and
if
we
don't,
there's
gonna
be
an
outcry
from
the
western
part
of
the
state
that
our
training
is
not
as
good.
We
don't
have
this.
A
The
accreditation
that
the
academy
has
the
quality
is
second
to
none.
And
if
we're
going
to
do
this,
we're
going
to
have
to
do
it
right
and
western
kentucky
officers
are
going
to
have
to
get
the
same
level
of
training
and
facilities
that
everybody
else
gets.
And
so
we
just
need
to
be
prepared
to
have
those
conversations.
A
When
we
get
to
that
point-
and
I
was
I
advocated
for
us-
backing
up
a
little
bit
and
doing
the
feasibility
study,
because
this
this
idea,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
came
through
the
senate
and
originated
as
far
as
legislation
through
the
senate
and
but
I
felt
like
we
needed
to
to
back
up
and
study
it
to
make
sure
we
understand
what
we're
getting
into.
A
A
A
So
I
just
think
there
are
lots
of
levels
of
this
that
we
have
to
consider,
and
I
want
to
see
it
happen
if
we,
you
know
if
it
ends
up
just
being
for
regional
in-service
training,
okay,
but
I
know
that
the
regional
trainings
are
taking
place
as
it
is
at
various
facilities
throughout
western
kentucky
that
I'm
familiar
with
and
I'm
sure
all
over
the
state.
A
You
know,
murray
state
has
facilities
western
has
facilities,
you
know,
so
I
think
there
are
facilities
all
over
the
state
that
can
accommodate
regional
in-service
and
I
know
that's
kind
of
the
first
phase.
We're
looking
at
for
this
facility
is
foreign
service
and
then
looking
at
more
of
a
full
academy.
So
those
are
just
the
thoughts
that
I've
had
and
I
I
have
to
compliment
the
chief
in
madisonville
and
the
folks
there
in
madisonville
for
for
the
work
they've
done
getting
this
idea
to
the
point.
A
It's
at
quite
honestly,
when
the
first
time
I
heard
them
speak,
they
came
down
to
paducah
and
they
proposed
it,
and
my
first
comment
was
it'll,
never
happen
and-
and
it
gained
some
traction
quickly
and-
and
I
think
and
I
see
the
need-
I
see
the
value
but
as
an
investment
for
the
state.
A
We
there's
a
lot
of
information
that
we
need
to
be
able
to
make
those
decisions,
and
I
I
appreciate
you
all
efforts
and-
and
I'm
I
guess,
I'm
surprised
that
you
all
are
able
to
get
the
feasibility
study
done
that
quickly.
I
expected
it
to
take
a
year.
At
least,
can
you
comment
on
that?
A
little
bit.
G
Yes,
sir,
you
know
when
we
initially
had
the
legislation
passed,
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
you
probably
don't
know
my
background,
sir,
but
you
know
I
was
a
former
fire
chief
and
a
I'm,
also
retired,
lieutenant
colonel.
So
so
that
makes.
G
G
You
know
we
kind
of
pumped
our
brakes
on
on
on
some
of
the
things
that
we
were
trying
to
not
get
ahead
of
you
and
your
desires
and
and
especially
not
ahead
of
the
governor
and
what
he
wanted
as
we
move
forward
in
this
project,
and
so
so
you
know
on
tuesday
one
of
the
things
that
I
hope
that
you
are
will
feel
comfortable
about
is
that
we
are
presenting.
G
I
presented
a
number
of
questions
that
you've
asked
that
that
the
the
staff
and
administrators
at
the
dlcjt
will
have
to
answer.
G
Among
those
questions,
are
you
know,
like
you
said,
you
know
what
what
are
we
going
to
focus
on?
Is
it
going
to
be
a
a
full-blown
training
academy,
or
are
we
going
to
look
at
just
doing
regional
in-services?
You
know
those
are
questions
that
need
to
be
asked
answered.
How
do
we?
How
do
we
employ
the
trainers
there
in
the
in
those
areas?
You
know?
Are
we
pulling
from
our
own
staff
or
are
we
gonna
recruit
from
western
kentucky?
G
You
know
those
are
just
some
of
the
the
early
on
questions
that
I
that
I'm
presenting
to
the
staff.
You
know
we
are
moving,
like
I
said,
a
generational
type,
training
facility
to
western
kentucky,
and
in
that
you
know,
with
with
not
having
the
support
of
eastern
kentucky
university,
you
know
moving
forward.
How
do
we?
How
do
we
now
take
over
that
facility?
And,
like
you
said,
it's
a
it's
an
investment.
It's
not
only
an
investment
in
people,
but
it's
an
investment
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
as
we
move
forward.
G
You
know
at
this
conference,
I'm
at
is
one
of
the
things
we're
talking
about
is
recruiting
and
retention
of
officers,
training
of
leadership
and
providing
the
guidance
that
chiefs
and
insurers
need
to
to
move
creating
efficiencies.
You
know
creating
efficiencies
and
policing.
G
Country,
and
so
with
the
permission
of
the
governor,
we
will
bring
us.
You
know
we're
trying
to
write
the
right
things
and
and
and
ultimately
ultimately,
when
we're
assessed
that
we
we
got
it
right.
You
know
we're
gonna
have
to
fix
and
adjust,
but
you
know
my
mindset
is
that
we're
looking
20
years
down
the
road,
as
you
said,
you
know,
and
if
we're
not,
if
we're
not
20
years
down
the
road,
then
then
we're
wrong.
G
So
I
hope
that
answers
your
questions
and
gives
you
some
comfort
in
in
what
it
is
that
we
in
the
direction
that
we're
going
in
as
we
plan
this
process.
A
It
does
mr
secretary
and
thank
you
for
that.
Are
there
any
other
questions?
A
Deputy
secretary,
I
have
one
final
question.
I
noticed
that
you
are
in
a
hotel
room
and
your
bed
has
been
made.
Did
you
do
that,
or
did
you
call
in
housekeeping
this
morning?
You
don't
have
to
answer
that.
A
All
right,
thank
you
all
so
much
for
being
here,
and
I
appreciate
the
information
and
it
is
from
a
law
enforcement
perspective.
A
I'm
grateful
for
what
we're
doing
with
the
firing
range
and
again
that
quality
of
training
is
second
to
none,
and
it
has
never
been
more
important
than
it
is
right
now,
with
what
our
officers
are
facing
throughout
this
commonwealth
every
day,
they're
at
higher
risk
than
they've
ever
been
at
and
that
that
training
is
just
is
crucial
at
this
point
and
we
get
we
get
quality
training
there
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
continues,
but
in
west
kentucky
we
are
excited
about
the
possibility
and
again
it's
just
an
expense
looking
at
it
from
the
seat
as
a
state
senator
and
responsible
for
the
whole
state.
A
A
I
noticed
the
memo
went
out
to
make
sure
that
the
governor
gets
as
much
air
time
as
he
can
during
committee
meetings.
So
I
would
maybe
ask
the
lrc
staff
if
we
could
start
billing
him
for
commercial
time
it
it
might
be
appropriate
if
there
are
no
other
comments,
questions.
What
is
our
next
meeting.