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A
News
and
wanted
to
thank
you
for
some
of
the
comments
you
made
in
part.
That
was
that
there
has
been
some
really
good.
Legislation
passes,
helping
break
down
barriers
for
the
stigma
of
mental
health,
and
we've
been
very
happy
to
see
that
over
the
past
few
years,
because
I've
worked
in
this
field
for
30
years
and
it's
great
to
see
some
movement
there.
A
A
So
an
aot
program
is
an
organized
systematic
effort
within
the
payroll
system
to
make
sure
that
aot
is
available
to
those
who
need
it,
and
this
slide
I'm
not
going
to
go
through
all
this
is
but
you'll
notice
the
source
is
the
treatment
advocacy
center,
as
was
the
last
senator.
The
treatment
advocacy
center
is
a
well-known
as
experts
in
aot.
A
It's
a
way
to
make
sure
there's
lines
of
communication
between
the
court
and
the
treatment
team
to
make
adjustments
as
needed
to
make
sure
we're
providing
evidence-based
treatment.
You
know,
I
think,
you'll
hear
the
term
black
robe
effect
and
for
some
people
that
black
robe
effect
is
they
don't
want
to
go
before
the
judge
right.
They
don't
want
to
get
in
trouble
for
other
people.
It's
the
ability
to
go
before
a
person
of
power
or
an
authority
to
be
commended
for
the
good
work,
they're
doing
and
being
adhered
in.
A
that
has
always
allowed
for
the
discharge
from
the
state
hospital
of
somebody
who's
on
a
60-day
commitment
to
go
to
an
agreed,
a
court
order
for
outpatient
treatment.
It
is
used
to
some
degree
in
all
of
our
state
hospitals,
it
kind
of
varies
from
region
to
region
and
over
time
we
use
it
a
lot
when
I
was
at
a.r.h
in
the
eastern
part
of
the
state
right
now.
Central
state
hospital
uses
it
more
than
anybody
else.
A
A
Unfortunately,
it
rather
fell
short
tim's
law
was
passed
in
2017
as
you
know,
and
which
provides
for
involuntary
outpatient
treatment
that
implementation
was
contingent
on
funding
and
there
was
no
funding
at
that
time.
In
2017.,
however,
the
department
for
behavioral
health
did
sponsor,
with
some
of
our
general
fund,
dollars
a
team
to
go
to
detroit
to
a
national
aot
conference,
and
we
had
representatives
from
community
mental
health
centers
the
national
alliance
for
mental
illness
or
nami.
A
The
services
were
not
initiated
into
december
of
2020.
As
you
know,
we
were
in
the
middle
of
a
pandemic.
A
lot
of
things
were
shut
down.
It
was
difficult
to
do
a
lot
of
face-to-face
and
some
of
the
training
things
we
needed.
So
there
was
a
pretty
significant
delay
in
getting
that
up
and
running
the
grant
projected.
A
A
Okay,
so
the
pilot
objectives
are,
I
mean
very
common
with
any
aot
program.
So,
first
and
foremost,
the
objective
is
to
improve
outcomes
for
people
with
serious
mental
illness.
Again,
I've
worked
in
this
field
for
30
years.
There's
just
some
people
with
serious
and
persistent
mental
illness
who
need
a
whole
lot
of
support
to
be
successful
in
the
community.
A
Second
is
to
demonstrate
cost
savings.
The
goal
is
to
keep
people
from
cycling
and
out
of
hospitals
and
just
keep
them
from
cycling
in
and
out
of
jail
and
to
have
them
be
able
to
sustain
in
the
community
and
then
to
have
a
sustainable
model
for
statewide
implementation.
So
what
can
we
learn
from
this
pilot
about
how
to
implement
in
the
various
parts
of
the
state
so
that
when
and
if
funding
becomes
available
to
fully
implement,
we
kind
of
know
how
to
do
that?.
A
This
is
kind
of
a
simplistic
view,
but
the
state
psychiatric
hospital
for
the
purpose
of
this
for
the
purpose
of
this
pilot
in
in
compliance
with
the
law
that
was
in
effect
at
the
time
the
aot
petition
is
initiated
in
our
hospitals,
where
a
person
has
been
evaluated
for
a
period
of
time
that
they're
well
known
to
the
treatment
team,
and
it
is
actually
the
treatment
team
at
the
hospital
that
will
file
the
petition.
A
The
community
mental
health
center
then
comes
in
and
does
a
more
thorough
evaluation
and
submits
their
findings
to
the
judge,
who
can
then
order
aot
for
up
to
360
days
with
regular
reviews
during
that
time,
the
cmhc,
once
the
person
is
discharged,
will
provide
specified
services
and
treatment.
That
might
include
therapy
medications,
supportive
services,
and
they
will
collaborate
with
all
the
various
stakeholders-
law
enforcement,
the
family,
other
stakeholders
to
make
sure
that
the
person
again
has
success
in
the
community
and
they'll
have
regular
interface
with
the
court
to
kind
of
monitor
compliance.
A
One
thing
that's
not
in
the
slides,
but
I
think
there
was
going
to
be
a
question
about-
is
what
the
grant
funds
cover.
So
there's
three
big
buckets
and
I'll
talk
about
each
of
them,
but
it's
client
costs,
cmhc
provider,
staff
and
administration
and
oversight
of
the
program
so
that
first
bucket
the
client
support
funds.
This
is
really
anything.
A
The
second
bucket
was
the
cma
super
fighter
costs.
So
this
grant
will
cover
the
the
time
of
the
staff
and
the
way
the
aot
team
works
in
central
and
the
way
it
will
in
the
other
states
is,
for
instance,
if
they
spend
10
percent
of
their
time.
This
week
doing
aot
work
will
pay
for
10
of
their
time
if
next
week,
it's
100
of
their
time.
We
pay
a
hundred
percent
of
their
time,
but
everybody
on
that
team
has
other
work.
A
So
this
is
part
of
what
they
do,
but
not
all
of
what
they
do,
and
so
that's
going
to
include
the
aot
coordinator.
Each
of
the
cmhcs
will
have
that's
involved
in
the
pilot
will
have
their
a
coordinator
for
the
program
targeted
case
managers
peer
support,
specialists,
other
clinical
staff,
other
clinical
supports,
but
it
also
covers
other
operating
costs
like
reporting
and
oversight,
office
supplies,
office,
space,
administrative
support
like
human
resources,
fiscal
and
I.t
training
and
certification.
So
it's
way
above
and
beyond
just
their
time.
A
The
third
and
last
bucket
is
about
administration
and
oversight.
So
there
are
several
things
that
that
covers.
First,
it
covers
our
costs
at
our
department
to
provide
that
oversight.
Through
the
pro
we
have
a
project
director
for
fidelity
and
accountability.
We
reimburse
for
the
psychiatric
hospital
staff
who
are
doing
the
referrals
and
doing
that
coordination.
A
We
contract
with
the
university
of
kentucky
to
evaluate
the
quality
outcomes
and
then
again
that
provision
of
training
and
support-
and
I
do
have
a
case
study-
I
won't
go
through
all
the
details,
but
we
had
a
this-
is
an
example
of
class
62
contacts
from
the
cmhc
in
a
period
of
30
days.
So
it's
on
an
average
of
two,
but
obviously
some
days
there
were
more
than
two
and
some
days
there
were
less
and
then
he
also
resided
in
our
ao3,
our
aot
community,
based
housing.
A
A
So
the
expansion
of
tim's
law,
tim's
law
was
first
expanded
in
2020
and
that
moved
the
eligibility
from
from
two
hospitalizations
in
the
past
12
months
or
one
year
to
two
hospitalizations
in
the
24
months.
So
that
expanded
the
pool
of
folks
who
are
eligible
and
then,
as
you
know,
this
last
legislative
session,
it
was
expanded
again
and
now.
A
What
was
really
exciting
about
this
legislative
session
is
that
you
all
gave
us
an
allocation
which
is
a
really
big
deal,
and
we're
really
excited
about
that,
because
it's
going
to
allow
us
to
expand
this
program
into
the
central
I
mean
into
the
eastern
state
and
arh
regions.
We
have
four
state
designated
hospitals,
and
now
we
have
the
dollars
to
do
pilots
and
all
of
those,
so
that
expansion
will
be
in
two
phases.
A
The
first
is
ongoing
started
just
a
couple
months
ago,
and
that's
going
to
be
an
eastern
state
hospital
region,
we're
still
gearing
up
with
training
and
community
meetings
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
We
hope
to
get
our
first
referral
there.
Maybe
next
month
we
thought
it
would
be
september,
but
I
don't
think
we're
quite
there
yet
and
then
at
the
arh
region
will
be
next
fiscal
year.
B
Okay,
if,
if
you
don't
mind
kind
of
hurry
and
summarize
so
we
can
get
to
questions,
because
I
think
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
discussion.
Okay,
please.
A
I
just
have
a
few
sides
left
so
this
map-
you
can
look
at
the
says,
the
four
hospitals
and
all
the
cmhcs
that
it
covers
so
implementation
of
house
bill
127.
The
first
thing
that
happened,
of
course,
was
aoc
revised
the
forms
to
be
in
compliance.
We
revised
all
of
our
paperwork,
our
pamphlets,
our
flyers.
Our
website
was
all
updated.
As
I
said,
we
did
request.
A
A
We
had
a
community
meeting
already
in
the
eastern
state
region
to
talk
about
that
with
judge
tackett
and
several
other
people.
He
was
one
of
the
members
who
went
with
the
administrative
office
of
the
courts
down
to
texas.
I
was
fortunate
to
be
part
of
that
team
as
well,
and
it
was
the
national
judicial
task
force
to
examine
state
court's
response
to
mental
illness.
A
It
was
a
really
great
several
days,
commissioner
lee
from
dms
was
there
senator
westerfield
and
representative
mosher
also
joined
us
part
of
what
we
talked
about
there,
and
what
I
wanted
to
share
too
is
there
are
a
whole
lot
of
initiatives
underway
right
now.
Tim's
law
is
one
of
those
988
implementation.
A
Right
now
we
have
an
increasing
number
of
involuntary
hospitalization
petitions,
increasing
number
of
petitions
to
our
ics
for
people
with
developmental
disabilities.
Our
casey
waiting
list
at
kcpc
continues
to
grow.
Workforce
shortages
are
unprecedented,
like
nothing,
I've
seen
before
and
so
again
trying
to
find
ways
that
we
can
really
collaborate
across
initiatives
and
create
synergy
is
going
to
help
us
rely
less
on
hospitals,
rely
less
on
jails
and
more
on
our
community
providers,
specifically
the
public,
behavioral
health
safety
net.
A
B
B
Very
good
representative
fleming
and
I'm
gonna
give
you
a
lot
of
latitude
on
this
topic
so
feel
free
to
continue.
Thank
you.
D
Mr
chairman,
I
appreciate
it
thank
you,
wendy
and
phyllis
for
coming
in
and
talking
to
us
to
get
a
quick
overview
of
what's
going
on
with
the
tim's
law.
D
As
you
know,
this
has
been
very,
very
important:
push
to
help
those
severe
mental
health
folks
to
get
them
back
into
society,
keep
them
out
of
jail,
keep
them
out
of
hospital
and
making
sure
that
we
they.
They
are
productive
citizens
in
the
in
this
community
because
they
are
valued
and
they
are
loved
ones.
D
I
want
to
talk
to
you
about
a
couple
things
one
there,
which
you
probably
are
familiar
with,
and
I
say
this:
this
sort
of
sort
of
set
things
up,
which
is
a
concern
of
mine,
a
very
serious
concern
of
mine
is
that
there's
a
court
case
that
you
probably
know
a
plan,
a
whistleblower
case
that
you
basically
said
back
in
may
of
last
year
or
indicated
based
on
this-
is
that
you
set
up
the
mission
to
thwart
any
and
all
efforts
to
enforce
and
carry
out
this
law
and
its
mission.
D
Second
of
all,
there
was
a
delay
in
the
application
to
samsa
and
everything
was
pushed
through.
The
last
two
days
before
is
due
third
there's
been
very
little
discussions
and
communications
to
the
judges,
even
though
you
might
you
mentioned
that
there
might
have
been
some
effort
recently
about
that.
But
it's
been
it's
been
a
couple
years
in
the
making
in
terms
of
that
communication
and
then
last
year
there's
a
or
actually
this
year's
a
july
email
that
basically
says
that
we
don't
have
any
money
and
we're
not
going
to
do
this.
D
We're
not
going
to
push
us
and
so
forth.
So
could
you
explain
your
mentality,
your
approach
in
supporting
tim's
law.
A
Sure
I
know
thay
morton
very
well.
I
was
involved
with
nami
kentucky
for
many
years
before
I
came
to
the
cabinet.
I
actually
served
as
a
president
of
nami
kentucky
for
several
years
and
was
close
with
the
gunnings
and
fayemorten
when
this
all
first
started
talking
about
tim's
law
long
before
it
kind
of
got
to
the
point
where
we're
actually
working
on
legislation.
A
I
was
part
of
the
group
that
helped
draft
the
original
legislation
and
I
think
we've
done
a
really
good
job
of
implementing
it,
giving
some
of
the
funding
constraints
that
we've
had
as
far
as
the
whistleblower
that
you're
talking
about
that
had
nothing
to
do
with
tim's
law
whatsoever,
despite
what
the
employee
who
was
terminated,
might
profess
or
share,
or
what
she
may
or
may
not
have
said
during
a
disposition,
and
I
don't
really
have
any
further
comment
about
that.
We
do
interact
with
the
judges.
A
C
Part
of
the
grant
allows
for
us
to
send
members
of
the
aot
teams
that
are
participating
in
the
grant
to
texas
to
the
national
aot
symposium,
which
highlights
best
practices
and,
what's
currently
being
used
across
the
nation.
Around
aot
we've
been
a.
We
are
sending
about
18
people
among
all
the
providers
that
we
are
working
with.
That's
what
we
had
available
to
send.
C
So
every
single
region
that
is
participating
in
this
grant
at
this
point
is
sending
a
representative
to
the
conference,
and
we
will
be
following
up
on
that
conference
material
with
a
two-day
meeting
in
november
to
share
this
information
and
kind
of
get
some
of
the
newer
participants
up
to
speed,
and
you
know
understand
some
of
the
tips
and
things
that
people
have
experienced.
So
we've.
We
are
sending
lots
of
folks
and
trying
to
incorporate
as
much
as
we
can
in
terms
of
additional
information
and
technical
support.
A
D
Their
court
order
expired,
one
person
passed
away
and
the
remaining
people
were
active,
so
a
little
different
number
there.
Could
you
give
me
you
mentioned
a
little
bit
about
the
buckets.
Could
you
explain
to
me
which
money
you
spent
on,
in
particular
for
the
first
year
year
and
a
half.
D
A
E
Yes,
I'm
stephanie
craig.
I'm
deputy
commissioner
of
the
department.
E
Stephanie
craig
deputy
commissioner
of
the
department
and
for
the
first
year
of
the
grant
we
spent
373
746
dollars
out
of
those
funds.
The
majority
of
that
269
998
dollars
went
to
the
community
mental
health
centers
for
implementation
of
aot,
and
then
there
was
54
000
for
staffing
and
travel
associated
with
the
project
director.
We
had
at
the
department
and
then
forty
nine
thousand
six
hundred
and
eighty
nine
dollars
to
university
kentucky
for
the
assessment
evaluation
of
the
grant.
I'm
sorry.
D
To
uk
the
they
all
spent
120
000.
D
D
D
It
go
back
to
the
federal
government
because
we
have
a
lot
of
people
going
through
the
system
that
are
very,
very
much
of
a
dire
need.
Why
do?
Because
that
money
was
supposed
to
go
and
to
serve
a
lot
of
need
in
jefferson
county?
Now
we
are
trying
to
expand
this
to
western
kentucky,
and
I
understand
recently
looking
at
east
kentucky.
That's.
A
A
A
Sure
so
the
samsa
grant
is
was
written
to
serve
the
central
state
region
in
years,
one
and
two
and
expand
to
the
western
state
region
in
years
three
and
four
we're
in
year
three.
So
we
are
expanding
to
western
state
year.
One
got
off
to
a
very
late
start.
As
I
said,
we
didn't
implement
until
december
of
2020,
so
naturally
we're
not
able
to
spend
a
million
dollars
the
full
amount
we
spent
about
370
plus
thousand
dollars,
there's
a
process
with
samhsa
to
carry
money
forward.
A
At
that
time
the
law
had
not
been
expanded.
So
we
asked
to
carry
forward
25,
which
requires
checking
a
box
in
order
to
request
all
of
it.
Carry
forward
is
a
little
bit
more
arduous
and
there's
a
six
to
nine
month
waiting
period
to
get
the
the
ask
at
that
time
again,
we
we
were
serving
close
to
what
we
anticipated
given
the
condensed
time
frame,
so
we
carried
forward
250
and
what
we
asked
to
do
with
that
money
was
to
expand
to
two
other
regions
in
western
state.
A
So,
instead
of
only
two
of
western
state
hospital
serves
four
cmhcs,
the
grant
included
only
two
of
those
and
with
the
care
foreign
money.
We
ask
to
go
to
all
four
so
right
now
we're
in
six
cmhc
regions,
which
are
all
the
regions
covered
by
the
central
state
hospital
and
the
western
state
health.
A
As
I
said,
we
haven't
had
a
referral
yet
from
western
state
because
it
just
started
in
july,
so
we're
doing
the
training.
We
started
that
back
in
april.
As
far
as
eastern
state,
there
was
a
budget
allocation
of
1.5
million
dollars,
and
it's
very
specifically
for
the
eastern
state
and
arh
region
to
expand
to
the
rest
of
the
state
and
the
budget.
Language
says
those
two
regions,
so
that
is
where
we're
using
our
state
dollars
is
to
expand
in
that
region.
A
A
D
E
So
if
I
may
so,
the
commissioner
alluded
to
a
process
the
process
for
carry
forward
with
the
grants.
Typically,
25
is
an
automatic
approval.
F
E
Funds-
and
it
gives
you
immediate,
immediate
access
to
the
funds
and
then,
if
you
request
more
than
that
25,
it's
usually
like
a
six
to
nine
month
process,
so
lots
of
times
you
won't
have
to
have
access
to
those
funds
for
three
years
out.
So
we
chose
the
250
000
at
the
time
because
it
gave
us
quicker
access
to
the
funds
and
again
based
on
the
scope
of
the
grant
and
the
scope
of
the
statute.
D
All
right,
well,
I
I
I
respectfully
disagree
that
there's
a
significant
need,
and
also
I'm
curious.
Why,
when
when
did
y'all
expand
or
where
did
y'all
make
that
request
to
make
change
those
parameters
did
y'all
recognize
it?
The
you
know
very
early
on
or
did
y'all
delay,
because
you
did
is
like
six
to
nine
months
in
order
to
get
that
approved.
D
A
D
My
point
is:
there's
a
there's,
a
there's,
a
lack
of
effort
and
communications
in
order
to
with
the
with
the
judges
with
samsa
and
so
forth,
and
then
we've
got
people
out
there
that
need
this
help,
and
I
feel
that
we're
not
doing
enough
having
enough
efforts
to
provide
services
to
those
individuals
because
of
being
delayed.
You
might
have
other
tasks
going
on.
D
There
should
be
a
sense
of
urgency
to
get
this
set
out
there,
because
if
you
look
at
things
in
a
broad
spectrum
and
according
to
the
grant,
I
think
it's
like
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
that
is
spent
on
individuals
and
if
you
multiply
that
out
and
so
forth,
you're
looking
at
180
million
dollars
in
costs
and
if
you,
if
you
basically
implement
this
and
have
a
sense
of
urgency
to
change
things,
do
you
reduce
your
cost?
D
I
don't
know
I'll,
say
40
or
50
million
dollars
based
on
180
million
dollars,
but
the
heck
with
the
money.
It's
the
people
that
I'm
concerned
about
it's
the
providing
services,
those
folks
that
are
that
are
severe
mental
health,
to
get
them
back
in
society
and
give
those
wrap
around
services.
That's
that's
what
I'm
that's
from
that's
what's
concerning
to
me,
can
y'all
comment
on
that.
A
Well
again,
I
think
we
we
have
time
frames
with
the
with
this
grant
that
we
are
in
compliance
with
with
the
federal
government
and,
as
I
said,
this,
the
tim's
always
one
avenue
to
outpatient
treatment,
there's
another
avenue,
which
is
the
voluntary
commitment
we
did
47
of
those
last
quarter
alone
at
central
state,
so
there
there
is
more
than
one
path
to
achieve
that
goal
and
we
have
multiple
grants.
Multiple
projects.
A
This
is
one
it's
an
important
one
for
that
small
number
of
people
that
really
don't
understand
how
they
could
benefit
from
treatment
are
not
going
to
go
any
other
way
even
for
the
people
under
tim's
law.
It
doesn't
work
for
everybody,
but
it
works
for
enough
to
make
it
a
worthwhile
investment.
But
it's
not
the
only
path
to
getting
this
type
of
treatment.
A
D
Okay,
well,
I
I
hope
so
because,
like
I
said
this,
a
lot
of
people,
a
lot
of
effort
has
been
going
gone
gone
through
this
in
terms
of
trying
to
make
this
a
very
strong,
viable
program
and
doing
that-
and
I
was
like
I
said-
I've
got
concern.
Could
you
comment
on
the
meeting
that
you
had,
which
I
could
not
make
in
terms
of
what
what's
like?
I
said:
what
were
some
of
your
impressions
in
terms
of
their
concerns.
A
Well,
well,
they
I
think
we'd
heard
those
concerns.
You
know
we
knew
that
those
were
the
concerns
before
the
meeting,
so
we
were,
I
think
there
to
listen,
and
you
know
to
hear
from
some
of
the
other
stakeholders
who
were
at
the
meeting
and,
as
I
said,
we
talked
on
the
way
home
and
we
talked
to
some
other
stakeholders
when
we
got
back
and
we
did
in
fact
reach.
D
Could
you
explain
what
y'all
reported
because
of
the
different
numbers
for
what
I
understand
in
terms
of
what
you
what
you're
saying
a
few
minutes
ago
so.
A
We
have
a
state
aot
team
that
phyllis
today
was
her
first
day
the
first
one
that
she
facilitated,
because
we've
had
some
change
over
in
staff
and
I
think
the
numbers,
the
numbers
you
reported
some,
but
also
that
were
the
numbers
I
reported
today
but
and
then
university
of
kentucky
had
given
us
some
updated
numbers.
So
I'm
not.
I
don't.
Maybe
you
could
restate
your
question
if
that
didn't
answer
it.
D
A
Numbers
that
I
gave
were
that,
were
I
repeated
what
university
of
col
told
what
university
of
kentucky
told
us
and
unfortunately,
what
happens
with
some
of
this
data?
Is
it
does
kind
of
shift
like
sand
and
the
wind
sometimes
because
they
get
more
updated,
more
updated
data?
I
wish
it
was
a
higher
number.
I
wish
it
was
the
number
you
said,
but
the
number
that
I
was
told
today
and
I
verified
with
phyllis
after
the
meaning
was
46.
I
thought
it
was
higher
too,
but
it's
a
number
we'll
keep
an
eye
on.
D
A
Immediately,
as
I
said,
all
the
forms
were
updated
by
the
administrative
office
of
courts
and
posted
on
their
website.
By
the
middle
of
july.
We
had
updated
our,
we
updated
our
pamphlets
and
our
flow
charts
and
the
hospital
understood
what
the
new
criteria
was.
So,
like
I
said
previously,
they
would
have
had
had
two
hospitalizations
with
the
new
criteria.
It
may
have
been
their
first
hospitalization
and
they
still
would
qualify.
D
Okay,
all
right!
Well,
mr
chairman,
I'll
I'll,
stop
there.
I
know
you've
got
other
things
on
the
agenda
and
so
forth.
I
do
want
to
continue
to
follow
up
on
this
issue,
because
it's
very
important
for
many
of
us.
D
A
B
B
C
E
Funds
yeah
I'll
just
say
that
I
think
whenever
you
make
that
request
you
typically,
if
you
request,
carry
forward,
you
can't
request
to
spend
it
for
what
your
current
grant
is
for.
So
for
the
second
year
we
would
have
had
funding
for
the
seven
county
services
and
communicare
region
already
in
the
budget,
and
we
would
have
had
it
for
two
of
the
cmhc
regions.
E
A
So
there's
there's
three
options:
one
we
cannot
request
any
carry
forward.
Second,
is
to
request
25,
which
is
kind
of
over
stamp
and
third
is
to
request
at
all,
but
whether
you
ask
for
the
25,
which
I
don't
think,
we've
said
this
before
the
25
percent
or
all
of
it.
It
has
to
be
for
something.
That's
in
addition
to
what
you're
already
doing
and
again
this
the
law
hadn't
expanded
so
doing
the
community
part
wasn't
necessarily
part.
A
You
know
what
I
mean
we
that
wasn't
entertained,
so
it
was
really
about
getting
it
to
more
of
the
state
because
to
represent
at
fleming's
point
other
regions
want
this.
I
know
that
in
lexington
they
had
20
names.
They're
like
we
have
this
tomorrow
we
got
20
people
that
we
you
know
that
we
need
to
get
on
this
program,
and
I
know
it's
the
same
everywhere.
So
you
know
we
thought
the
more
regions
we
could
get
the
more
people
we
can
help.
B
Okay,
representative
jenkins,.
G
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
your
presentation
and
I'm
trying
to
wrap
my
brain
around
how
this
money
going
back
to
the
federal
government.
I
think
we
all
are
concerned
about
that
amount
going.
So
what
I'm
taking
from
this
is
that
jefferson,
county
lost
650.
E
G
A
Brought
our
aot
coordinator
in
at
the
cabinet
in
august
so
one
month
after
right,
the
allocation,
so
it
really
from
what
I
understand.
It
really
had
a
lot
to
do
with
covid
that
was
still
kind
of
new
at
the
time
it
impacted
our
facilities
dramatically.
We
were
still
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
see
patients
because
we
had
doctors
who
didn't
want
to
come
into
the
hospital
and
just
use
telehealth.
We
were
trying
to
do
court
proceedings
by
telehealth.
It
had
a
huge
impact
on
our
outpatient
world,
because
people
weren't
coming
into
offices.
A
There
was
just
a
lot
we
were
trying
to
work
through
and,
as
I
said,
we
have
a
number
of
other
grants,
a
number
of
other
projects,
so
we
did
have
dedicated
staff
tanya
dickinson,
who,
as
I
said
she,
she
left
the
position
and
she
still
helps
out
part-time,
but
in
in
april
this
past
year,
phyllis
now
doesn't
in
addition
to
all
of
her
regular
full-time
duties
but
yeah
it.
Just
there
was
some
and
that
happens.
Sometimes
we
don't
always
get
things
started
as
quickly
as
as
we
might
like.
A
I
don't
I
I
don't
know
that
I
can
speak
to
that,
but
I
know
that
you
know
they
had
to
get.
They
had
to
get
an
aot
person
hired
and
they
had
to
have
staff.
Now
I
don't
know
offhand.
If
they
you
know
I'm
guessing,
they
use
staff
they
already
have.
Because
that's
what
usually
happens
when
we
have
new
programs
there.
C
Were
some
staff
that
took
over
some
of
the
positions
some
of
the
percentage
of
the
time
but
but
they
all
did
have
issues
hiring
workforce
capacities
across
the
state.
So
there
was
a
lag
in
trying
to
get
positions
filled
and
hired.
So
all
of
those
things
sort
of
kind
of
got
a
you
know:
energy
behind
it,
which
caused
an
overall
lag
of
getting
the
program
up
and
running.
G
Well,
thank
you.
I
am
still
very
concerned
that
there
were
resources
that
were
dedicated,
which
includes
jefferson
that
were
not
able
to
be
used.
I
want
the
I
want
all
the
state
to
get
mental
health
services.
I
want
to
see
this
program
throughout
the
state,
but
I
am
concerned
about
why
we
had
to
spend
send
that
amount
of
money
back
to
the
federal
government.
G
I
love
federal
money
and
I
would
you
know
I
love
spending
new
york
and
california
money,
so
I
will
be
reading
the
reports
and
and
trying
to
get
this
straight
in
my
mind,
but
thank
you
for
your
presentation.
B
I
would
ask
that
you
all
submit
to
the
committee
something
in
writing
explaining
in
detail
about
this
and
also
reference
the
the
policy
that
led
to
your
decisions
on
why
you
did
what
you
did
and
that
way
we
can
study
a
little
bit
closer,
we're
running
out
of
time
right
now,
we're
going
to
take
one
more
question:
co-chair
nemas.
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
wanted
to
wanted
to
note
that
first
of
all
appreciate
what
you
you
guys
do.
I
know
you
care
about
this
issue.
You've
devoted
your
professional
lives
to
it
at
least
the
last
number
of
years.
I
you
know,
like,
like
representative
jenkins,
representative
fleming,
it's
extremely
concerning
that
it
appears
it
feels
like
we
were
singled
out
in
the
louisville
area,
not
just
louisville,
but
that's
about
a
fourth
of
our
state.
We
sent
650
thousand
dollars
back
and
this
is,
we
didn't
been
655
000
back.
H
So
we
we,
we
sent
370
000
back
to
the
federal
government
right,
okay,
at
a
time
when,
obviously,
our
mental
health
issues
due
to
covet
and
all
the
things
surrounding
that
are
through
the
roof,
we've
got
people
our
opioid
numbers
have
been
going
up
and
up
every
year
and
the
last
year
they
were
higher
than
they
ever
were
and-
and
it
seems
like-
I
guess
I'll
say
say
it
like
this
before
I
say
something-
I'm
not.
I
don't
have
full
backing
on
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
outstanding
questions.
H
Mr
chairman,
we
did
not
put
the
witnesses
under
oath
I'd
like
to
submit
questions
to
them,
that
they
would
respond
and
we
would
get
it.
I
would
like
to
ask
you
guys,
get
it
sworn
so
we
can
get
some
of
these
because,
because,
when
I
talk
to
my
judges,
some
of
the
things
that
you've
said
they
say
is
not
true,
and
so
I'd
like
to
get
I'd
like
to
send
you
some
some
questions
on
the
record
and
have
you
respond?
H
A
For
this
program,
no
we've
we
have
made
a
request
just
this
week
to
sampson
to
broaden
the
scope
and
then
again
there
are
limitations.
What
we
can
and
can't
do
with
that
federal
those
federal
dollars.
We
have
to
stay
within
the
scope
of
the
grant
and
the
grant
was
specific
to
referrals
from
our
state
hospitals.
H
B
Okay-
and
it
may
be
that
we
asked
you,
ladies
to
come
back
closer
okay,
thank
you
for
being
here
today
and
thank
you
for
the
testimony
and
we
are
going
to
need
to
move
forward.
I
would
ask
secretary
weathers
and
commissioner
bailey
to
please
come
forward
this
discussion
and
we're
going
to
try
to
keep
this
to
30
minutes.
B
This
will
be
related
to
teleworking
and
the
plans
to
to
get
folks
back
in
the
office
who,
what
the
rules
are
so
just
a
general
overview
of
how
all
of
this
has
been
handled.
It's
my
understanding
that
the
personnel
cabinet
makes
these
decisions
for
each
cabinet,
and
I
didn't
really
know
that
until
I
started
asking
some
questions
so
and
I'd.
I
have
a
few
questions
there
have
been.
B
So,
that's
that's
what
the
initiated
the
request
for
you
all
to
be
here,
and
I
think
the
idea
is
to
just
understand
the
process
that
we've
been
through,
why
the
decisions
were
made
and
how
much
latitude
each
cabinet
has
within
what
the
personnel
cabinet
grants.
So
thank
you
both
for
being
here,
please
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
you
have
the
floor.
I
I'll
say
it
again:
I'm
sorry,
I'm
gerina
weather
secretary
of
the
personnel
cabinet
and
thank
you,
chairman
and
vice
chairs,
and
the
committee
of
this
legislative
oversight
and
investigations
committee
to
allow
us
to
be
here
today
and
we'll
go
through
it
rather
quickly.
So
we'll
be
able
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
may
have.
I
We
also
wanted
to
share
with
you,
as,
as
you
had
discussed
chairman
carroll,
that
we're
going
to
go
over
the
general
information,
the
current
state
of
the
telecommunity
policy,
then
relative
statistics
and
how
that
looks,
and
also
identify
and
briefly
discuss
the
flexible
schedules
that
exist
in
our
policy
that
will
include
those
who
may
or
may
not,
telecommute
or
who
have
never
telecommuted.
I
So
just
a
quick,
quick
background,
we're
embarking
on
a
new
work
environment.
I'm
sure
that
you're
very,
very
aware
of
that.
It
just
doesn't
look
today
in
2022.
We
do
not
look
like
we
did
two
years
ago
or
three
years
ago,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
move
forward
with
a
very
strategic
balance,
not
saying
that
it
was
perfect
at
the
beginning,
especially
of
what
we
what
we
went
through
and
what
was
happening
two
years
ago.
I
So,
although
the
telecommuting
policies,
representatives
of
the
committees
have
already
always
been
here,
we
have
to
go
back
in
to
see
what
it
looks
like
today.
How
do
we
move
forward?
And
for
the
first
time
in
history,
we
have
five
different
generations
that
are
now
in
the
workplace
first
time
that
we've
ever
seen
that,
but
with
that
workforce
we
have
the
millennials,
we've
got
gen
y's
and
we
also
have
still
in
our
thank
goodness.
We
still
have
in
our
workforce
those
who
are
turning
65
years
old
every
day
for
the
next
several
years.
I
Those
that's
our
workforce
that
are
here,
but
we
still
have
to
look
at
the
millennials
who
are
going
to
take
up
75
of
the
workforce
in
2030
and
then
there's
many
of
us
that
have
been
here
for
10
15
20
years
and
we're
trying
to
make
that
balance
to
make
sure
that
we
continue
to
serve
them
and
retain
our
top
talent
in
state
government
who
are
still
with
us
today
and
we're
we're
also
having
the
opportunity
to.
I
We
have
to
promote
and
train
new
people
that
are
coming
in,
so
people
have
to
be
in
the
buildings
to
be
able
to
do
that.
We
have
to
promote
camaraderie.
We
still
have
to
be
competitive
in
the
workforce.
I
will
take
this
opportunity
just
personally.
Thank
you
and
then
thank
you
in
my
position,
for
the
increase
for
that
we
received
for
our
state.
Employees
is
something
that
was
well
received,
and
it
also
has
it
part
of
why
we're
looking
at
what
we're
looking
at
today.
I
I
So
the
executive
branch
and
18a
agencies,
as
many
of
you
all
know,
we
do
have
work
options.
We've
always
had
work
options.
Everyone
did
not
have
to
be
in
the
building.
We
were
in
the
building
five
days
a
week,
but
how
they
looked
the
hours
that
they
worked.
How
many
things
they
worked
during
the
week
looked
different
and
it
has
always
been
this
way.
So
here
are
some
of
our
options.
We've
got
full-time,
of
course,
and
the
executive
branches
in
the
building
and
office.
Many
of
us
have
been
full-time
for
for
for
a
while.
I
I
did
it
again.
I
apologize.
We
have
that
partial
telecommuting,
where
employees
will
work
both
in
the
executive
branch
in
the
buildings
and
also
remote
have
a
remote
workstation
home.
What
we
will
get
into
detail,
though,
is
that
well
what
does
that
look
like?
How
do
we
hold
ourselves
accountable
if
we're
not
actually
physically
in
the
buildings,
and
so
we'll
go
through
that
as
well,
then
we
have
our
full-time
telecommunity
where
employees
will?
Some
of
us
are
working
100
of
the
time
from
the
remote
workstation,
so
we'll
go
on
to
the
next
one.
I
Thank
you
and
then
we'll
go
ahead
and
start
breaking
down
exactly
what
I'm
sure
you
all
would
are
very
interested
in
and
that's
what
does
this
really
look
like
as
far
as
employees
being
in
the
state
offices
in
the
buildings
versus
them
being
in
remote,
and
how
does
it
look
like
with
hybrid
so
we'll
start
with
mayor
elizabeth
and
she'll
share
with
you
that
for
50
56
of
the
executive
branch
is
actually
full-time
in
in
our
office
buildings
and
then
we'll
go
into
who's
eligible
and
who's,
not
sure
sure.
Thank
you
secretary.
J
Yes,
as
the
secretary
said,
we
have
a
little
over
27
000
employees
right
now
in
the
executive
branch
56
of
those
are
working
full-time
every
day
in
an
office
building.
You
know
in
order
to
be
eligible
for
telecommute
and
in
in
these
employees
that
they're
working
full
time
in
the
office
every
day.
It's
because
that
their
job
duties
are
public
facing.
So
we
ensure
that
those
employees
are
in
the
office
every
day
to
meet
the
needs
of
the
citizens
who
are
coming
in
for
services.
J
Agencies
are
looking
at
the
positions
to
determine
if
they
can
be
remote
or
not.
So
if
their
duties
cannot
be
performed
remotely,
then
they
are
definitely
in
the
office.
We
are
also
addressing
those
employees
who
are
low
performers.
J
In
fact,
in
addition
to
that,
we
have
employees
that
are
eligible
right
now
for
telecommuting,
but
during
the
time
period,
if
you
are
put
on
a
performance
improvement
plan,
if
we
see
that
you
are
not
performing
your
job
duties,
we
will
bring
you
back
to
the
office
full
time
it.
It
you
know,
employees
and
citizens
need
to
remember.
You
know
that
telecommuting
is
not
a
right;
it
is
a
benefit
it
is.
That
is
something
that
you
know,
needs
to
be
remembered.
J
Telecommuting
and
agencies
determine
the
positions
that
are
eligible
for
telecommuting.
The
personnel
cabinet
does
set
the
telecommuting
policy
for
the
executive
branch,
but
as
far
as
the
determination
of
eligibility
that
is
determined
on
each
individual
position
by
the
agency's
appointing
authority
that
is
not
determined
by
the
personnel
cabinet.
J
Even
though
this
56
percent
of
the
employees
in
the
executive
branch
are
working
full
time
in
the
office
every
day
in
our
buildings
we
still
offer
flexible
work
schedules.
We
have
over
2000
work
schedules
that
employees
can
choose
from
in
that
you
know,
is
flexing
within
the
work
day
or
compressing
your
schedule.
You
know
four
day
work
weeks,
things
like
that,
so
there
are
options
that
could
be
possible
for
these
employees.
That
is
something
that
each
agency
also
determines.
You
know
the
types
of
jobs
that
we
have
that
are
coming
in
five
days.
J
A
week
I
shouldn't
say,
or
into
a
building
every
single
day
is
health
care,
our
security,
our
youth
workers,
our
correctional
officers,
jobs
like
that
employees
in
our
highways,
our
technicians,
maintenance,
our
maintenance
employees
and
our
inspectors
that
are
out
in
the
field
they're
out
every
day.
You
know
dealing
with
the
public
and
meeting
those
needs.
J
The
next
type
of
work
schedule
that
we
have
as
far
as
in
this
in
office
telecommuting
world
is
partial
telecommuting
prior
to
the
pandemic.
We,
as
we've
said
before,
we
have
always
offered
telecommuting.
It
has
been
here
for
years,
of
course,
at
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic,
you
know
the
governor
wanted
to
ensure
that
we
are,
you
know,
keeping
employees
safe,
and
we
are
you
know,
being
cognizant
of
of
this
virus
and
how
it
is
impact,
and
you
know
impacting
our
workforce.
So
we
did
push
everyone.
J
You
know
push
the
agencies,
encourage
the
agencies
to
send
the
employees
home
and
for
those
that
could
tell
commute
to
do
so
to
keep
us
all
safe.
That
was
not
intended
to
be
what
our
world
is
forever.
You
know
it
was
something
that
we
needed
at
that
time.
It's
something
that
we're
is
constantly
evolving.
We
have
seen
nationally
that
it
has
worked
both
in
the
public
and
private
sector,
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
it
that's
the
way
it's
going
to
be
forever.
J
You
know
it's
something
that
we
constantly
have
to
analyze,
and
we've
done
that
so
in
going
on
in
our
second
type
of
of
a
work
schedule
is
our
is
our
partial
and
that's
35
percent
of
our
workforce
right
now
are
telecommuting
three
days
they
are
working
three
days
in
the
office
and
then
two
days
from
a
remote
workstation.
J
J
Like
I
said,
we
have
an
executive
branch
policy
that
all
employees
are
given,
so
they
are
aware
of
the
requirements
in
order
to
be
able
to
tell
commute
what
is
expected
of
them.
We
have
also
ensured
that
if
you
are
eligible
for
telecommuting
supervisors
and
employees
training
in
order
to
do
so,
it's
a
different
world
to
tell
commute
it's
it's
a
different
world
to
supervise
employees
that
are
telecommuting.
J
It
is
a
little
harder
it's
harder
to
ensure,
especially
when
you
know
I'm
most
concerned
from
a
human
resource
and
leadership
perspective
about
our
new
employees.
When
they
come
on,
you
know,
do
they
have?
Are
they
feeling
a
sense
of
camaraderie?
Are
they
growing
and
learning
and
developing?
Are
they
being
trained
appropriately
accurately?
J
Are
they
being
supervised
and
managed?
Is
there
accountability
there?
These
are
all
things
that
you
know
that
I'm
empowering
the
hr
offices
to
make
sure
that
leadership
is
aware
and-
and
these
things
are
all
being
considered,
there
are
terms
and
conditions
agreement.
So
all
employees
have
received
the
all
of
these
things
to
ensure
they
are
aware
of
it
and
and
are
following
these
things.
There's
a
safety
checklist.
Safety
is
very
important
in
the
office
and
at
home,
because
you
know
it's
it's
a
work
site
that
we
aren't
there
to
see
every
single
day.
J
A
lot
of
options
for
employees,
types
of
jobs
that
are
included
in
this
type
of
world
is
mainly
administrative,
attorneys
and
jobs
like
that
jobs
that
do
not
necessarily
see
the
public
every
day,
but
it
could
be
jobs
that
does
see
the
public
as
long
as
the
work
hours
and
regulation
are
covered
monday
through
friday,
8
to
4
30.
That
is
the
requirement
as
long
as
that
is
covered,
while
they
are
seeing
citizens
face
to
face.
If
that
is
needed,
then
then
they
can
still
continue
to
telecommute,
partially.
J
And
our
last
option
is
telecommuting.
Full-Time
this
encompasses
just
nine
percent
of
the
executive
branch.
Full
times
means
that
an
employee
will
work
100
percent
remote.
They
will
not
come
in
on
a
set
schedule
to
an
office
building,
but
they
can't
they
can.
They
are
aware
that
at
any
moment,
for
any
reason
that
an
agency,
the
appointee
authority
has
the
authority
to
call
them
in
for
a
meeting,
they
have
to
be
available
or
for
any
reason
they
deem
necessary.
So
but
they
are
their
full-time.
Workstation
is
100
remote.
J
Any
any
position
like
this
outside
of
an
ada
accommodation
where
there's
maybe
some
medical
needs
and
agencies
can
make
that
decision,
but
outside
of
that
this
in
order
to
tell
commute
100
requires
the
approval
of
the
personnel
cabinet.
The
appointed
authorities
and
the
agencies
do
not
have
the
authority
at
the
moment.
So
that
is
something
that
we
do
review.
J
Of
course
again,
just
like
partial
telecommuting.
There
is
criteria
for
consideration
to
to
determine
whether
or
not
a
position
is
eligible
for
telecommuting.
J
The
employees,
just
like
partial,
have
to
abide
by
the
policy
and
and
the
terms
and
agreement
and
the
safety
checklists
and
and
in
addition
to
being
able
to
re
telecommute
full
time,
they
also
have
flexible
work
schedules
again
there.
This
is
also
available
to
these
employees
as
well
and
in
types
of
position
that
that
applies
to
this
type
of
of
work
schedules.
Is
you
know,
information
technology
I.t
is
very
ripe
to
be
able
to
telecommute
100.
Of
course,
I
mentioned
ada
accommodations.
J
We
have
to
have
that
ability
in
our
workforce
in
our
agencies.
There
are.
We
have
several
agencies
that
are
doing
building
renovation
projects
and
if
they
have
the
ability
for
the
employee
to
telecommute,
while
the
building
has
been
being
renovated.
Instead
of
us
looking
for
another
space
to
lease
during
that
time
period,
we
can
send
the
employees
home
if
their
position
it
you
know,
is
eligible
for
telecommunity
and
we
can
send
them
home
to
tell
community
while
buildings
being
renovated
in
order
to
bring
us
bring
them
back.
J
You
know
we
have
over
the
past
year,
we
when,
when
employees
started
returning
back
into
the
buildings
last
july.
One
thing
I
required
of
all
agencies
is:
they
had
to
report
to
the
personnel
cabinet
to
myself
quarterly
and
give
me
an
update,
not
only
on
statistics,
but
I
wanted
to
see
you
know
efficiencies
that
were
realized.
I
wanted
to
understand.
How
are
you
managing
this
work?
How
are
you
ensuring
that
employees
are
being
productive?
J
Okay,
sorry,
we
over
the
last
year,
took
this
information
and
analyzed
that
and
looked
at
that
from
this
from
a
leadership
perspective
and
realized
that
we
needed
after
a
year
to
update
our
current
policy,
and
we
did
that
and
it
was
effective
september,
the
12th
and
it
required
a
consistent
approach
across
the
executive
branch
for
the
partial
telecommuting
world
which
brought
employees
that
weren't.
We
only
had
20
percent
of
the
executive
branch
that
was
telecommuting.
J
That
was
not
in
the
office
three
days
a
week
or
more,
and
so
we
brought
that
20
percent
back
into
the
office
if
they
were
telecommuting
that
started
on
september,
the
12th
three
days
a
week
two
days,
they
can
tell
a
commute
from
an
alternate
work
location,
and
you
know
this
was
to
ensure
we-
we
saw
after
analyzing
the
data
and
and
saw
the
needs
and
some
of
the
personal
actions
that
were
happening.
J
You
know
we
needed
some
consistency,
it's
it
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
it
has
to
be
a
one-size-fits-all
in
state
government,
but
the
size
of
the
employer
that
we
are.
We
have
to
have
some
consistency,
because
you
have
agencies
stealing
from
one
another.
You
know
and
h
and
for
morale
in
fairness.
J
You
know
you
have
an
agency,
some
employees
that
do
the
same
type
of
job
in
every
agency,
especially
in
administrative,
let's
say,
and
they
you
know,
one
agency
didn't
understand
why
they
were
having
to
work
four
days
in
the
office,
and
another
agency
was
maybe
coming
in
one
day
a
week.
That's
not
necessarily
fair
and
so,
and
I
also
wanted
to
make
sure
that
new
employees
that
are
being
hired
are
having
a
good
experience.
You
know,
I
don't
want
them
just
to
come
for
a
job.
J
I
do
want
them
to
stay
here
for
a
career.
I
want
them
to
build,
you
know
to
make
sure
they
have
a
good
training
experience,
make
sure
when
they
do
come
off
probation
that
this
is
where
they
want
to
stay
and
that
they
are
able
to
then
telecommute
or
have
some
of
these
options
and
that
it
is
a
good
work
experience.
So
I
feel
right
now.
We
have
a
good.
J
Happy
medium
per
se,
a
balance,
a
good
balance
right
now,
you
know
it's
a
policy
we're
going
to
continue
to
analyze
this.
I
know
some
employees
have
not
have
not
received
the
20.
That's
coming
back
three
days
a
week
that
had
not
been
working.
I
know
some
have
been
upset
about
that.
I
understand
it.
We
we
do
need
the
balance
in
state
government.
J
We
need
to
do
this,
we're
going
to
continue
to
analyze
our
data
if
we
need
to
adjust
the
policy
for
whatever
reason
you
know,
we
will
definitely
discuss
that,
but,
right
now
it
seems
necessary
that
this
is
where
we
go
for
right
now
in
the
future.
B
Okay,
thank
you
understand
that
I
get
it.
This
is.
This
is
common
across
the
country
now
and
even
in
my
organization,
I've
got
case.
Managers
that
are
are
working
from
home
and
it's
it's
very
uncomfortable
to
me
to
do
that
which
leads
to
the
first
question.
I
I
ask
my
folks
and
I
don't
know
that
this
would
be
permanent,
prepare
a
daily
log
of
what
you
do.
What
what
are
the
common
steps
being
taken
to
to
monitor
production.
J
J
You
know
they
can
auto
our
phone
system
that
we
use
the
majority
of
agencies,
can
audit
dropped,
calls
and
the
volume
of
calls
going
in
and
if
they're
not
answering,
and
how
long
they're
on
a
call
things
like
that,
so
that
can
definitely
address
productivity
there,
and
I
know
a
lot
of
agencies
are
using
that
you
know
agencies
have
you
know,
status,
reports
and
staff
meetings
and
in
things,
so
we
are
ensuring
that
those
measures
are
in
place
in
each
agency.
J
I
Chairman
carol,
we
we
really
have
had
quite
a
few,
not
you
know
not
a
lot,
but
we
have
quite
a
few
that
has
been
that
have
been
back
been
taken.
Have
they
they're
no
longer
telecommuting,
and
that
is
the
reason
why
we're
trying
to
make
sure
that
we
we
painstakingly
go
through
those
forms
that
are
being
filled
out?
Yes,
we
are
actually
training
our
hr
execs
mary
elizabeth
works
with
our
hr
execs.
I
would
I've
been
there
with
them,
because
it
is
a
new
world,
but
we
also
I
agree.
B
You
brought
up
something
that
was
my
next
question.
The
phone
system
was
in
the
middle
of
a
conversation
with
an
employee
up
here,
spent
20
minutes
explaining
myself
silence
connection
was
lost,
I'm
assuming
that
this
most
cabinets
have
a
cloud-based
hosted
phone
system
where
they
take
their
their
phones
home
and
they
use
them
there.
So
it's
all
wi-fi
based
have
there
been
many
problems
with
that,
depending
on
where
the
employee
lives
I
could
in
the
type
of
service
they
have.
I
could
see
that
being
a
problem.
J
You
know
I
have
not
heard,
I
know
durian
at
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic.
You
know
when
there
was
such
it
was.
You
know
we
rushed
to
get
employees
out
of
the
buildings.
You
know
to
keep
them
safe
from
from
the
virus,
especially
when
it
was
at
the
height,
and
we
were
unsure
about
a
lot
of
things
as
medically
per
se.
I
know
that
there
was
some
pain
points
per
se
to
get
them
the
technology
they
needed.
You
know
so
quickly.
J
We
are
way
past
that
now
I
think
agencies
understand
that
this
telecommuting
is
is
here
it's
something
that
we
have
to
have
for
the
future
for
to
be
any
bit
competitive,
not
only
with
the
public
sector
but
private
for
sure,
and
so
we
know
we
have
to
have
it
and
it
has
worked.
It
has
proven
it.
We
have
been
successful.
We
have
been
productive
over
the
past
two
years,
so
so
to
your
point,
I'm
not
aware
of
any
technology
issues.
J
Obviously,
I'm
not
the
cabinet
for
that,
but
I've
not
heard
from
the
commonwealth
office
of
technology,
any
cabinets
that
are
having
you
know
any
type
of
significant
issues
or
something
that
they
have
not
been
able
to
deliver.
I
would
have
any
any
any
situation
like
that.
Please
send
those
to
us.
We
would
be
happy
to
look
into
those
and
I've
received
those
that's
directly
yeah
yeah.
I've
received
those,
you
know
from
citizens,
not
a
lot,
but
obviously
they
contact
us
and
and
for
members
of
the
general
assembly.
B
And
I'd
the
whole
point
of
it
is
just
being
selective
with
positions.
Customer
service
has
suffered
in
the
commonwealth
since
colvid,
and
I
it's
constant
where
there
are
delays
getting
through
to
someone
and
can't
get
anyone
to
answer
the
phone
taking
several
days.
So
I
think
in
every
cabinet
we
we've
really
got
to
be
sensitive
because
that
reflects
poorly
on
all
of
us
and
you
everything
you
said,
I
agree
with
100
it's.
It
is
the
way
it
is
and
us
old
people
are
gonna
have
to
get
used
to
it,
and
I
I'm.
B
Well,
young
people
love
it
so,
but
it's
good,
I
think
it's
good
progress,
but
we've
got
to
be
careful
in
certain
aspects
and
we've
got
to
put
the
the
proper
checks
and
balances
to
ensure
that
the
customer
service
experience
for
the
commonwealth
is
a
positive
one
and
sure
you
know
I've
heard
stories
about
kids
squalling
in
the
background
and
dogs
barking
and
that's
all
part
of
it
and
that's
okay,
it's
just
timely,
being
timely
and
being
the
same
standards
of
you
know,
people
being
friendly,
even
though
no
one's
sitting
beside
them
monitoring
and
that
type
of
thing
we
just
got
to
be
really
careful
of
that
representative
blanton.
K
Thanks
chris
chairman
comment
briefly
and
then
a
couple
questions.
Thank
you,
ladies
for
your
presentation.
I
too
am
scratching
my
head
that
how
we're
evolving
I.
A
K
I
would
say,
and
I've
gotten
complaints
from
different
cabinets
from
constituents
about
being
able
to
get
a
hold
of
somebody
at
the
office
because
they're
they're
telecommuting,
and
so
at
27
000.
I
think
you
said
approximately
numbers.
That's
almost
12
000,
either
partially
or
full-time
telecommuting,
of
our
employees
in
the
state.
K
So
with
that
and
keeping
in
mind,
customer
service
is
right
and
you'll
have
a
a
very
difficult
job,
because
you've
got
so
many
cabinets
and
so
many
different
types
of
work
that
has
to
be
done
for
the
people,
what
benefit
other
than
morale
or
benefiting
the
employees.
What
benefit
is
these
changes
for
the
people
of
the
commonwealth.
J
Well,
I
think
in
I
don't
do
you
want
to
go
ahead.
I
Well,
I'll,
just
I'll
just
start
off
because
and
you
and
you
know
that
we're
seeing
this
everywhere
on
the
private
and
public
sector,
but
most
importantly
dealing
with
what's
going
on
here.
We
know
that
the
workforce
just
doesn't
look
the
way
it
did.
So
we
actually
have
to
be
be
realistic
about
how
do
we
keep
and
retain
the
employees
that
we
have
to
be
able
to
have
the
customer
service
that's
needed,
and
how
do
we
keep
recruiting
at
the
same
time
having
that
customer
service?
I
State
employees
who
have
the
flexibility,
if
it's
done
correctly,
then
we
can
in
turn
be
able
to
work
with
the
customer
service
angle
and
because
we
have
to
see
it
differently,
I'm
just
being
very
honest.
We
we
have
to
shift
and
figure
out
what
that
means
in
order,
because
that's
actually
how
we
start,
what
how
are
we
being
represented
and
how
our
because
we're
public
servants,
first
and
foremost
we
we
all
are
we
have
been.
I
I
Personal
life
and
work
life-
I
say
it
all
the
time
this
this
twitter
and
the
facebook,
and
all
of
this
we
really
have
to
consider
how
people
see
the
workforce.
So
we
not
saying
that
we
just
do
whatever
they
tell
us
to
do
as
far
as
future
employees
or
employees,
but
in
order
for
to
to
keep
not
just
morale
but
able
to
have
good
employees
trained
employees
with
a
different
look,
I
mean
just
a
different.
I
We
don't
have
as
many
employees
the
jobs
are
different,
and
how
do
we
do
that
and
still
be
able
to
represent
our
citizens
which
we're
here
so
we're
still
we're
we're
working
through
it?
It's
it's
definitely
a
balance,
but
that
I
you
know,
that
is
what
we're
trying
to
do
and
with
customer
service.
That
is
what
they
will.
They
will
get.
I
K
As
long
as
they're
getting
their
job
completed
and
they're
being
available
for
people
when
they
need
to
be,
however,
that
looks
that's
okay.
You
know.
My
next
question
goes
back
to
the
you
all
talked
about
the
ones
that
were
still
working
in
office.
You
you
talked
about
those
that
had
previous
performance
evaluations.
K
So
my
question
is
this
because
been
out
of
as
an
employee
now
for
10
years,
do
you
all
still
do
the
same
type
of
performance
evaluations
that
we
used
to?
Where
you
get
a
certain
level
score?
You
get
so
much
comp
time
as
reward
for
being
a
good
employee.
Is
that
still
an
ongoing?
Is
that
still
what
we're
doing.
J
It
is,
it
is,
and
a
majority
of
that
is
in
statute,
so,
yes,
we
are
still
doing
that,
except
for
it.
The
process
is
now
electronic,
so
much
more
efficient.
But
yes,
if
you
score
in
the
top
two
categories,
you
are
awarded
annual
leave
days.
E
J
L
J
J
Can
be
it's
a
struggle
and
that's
you
know,
you
know
first
and
foremost,
supervision,
it's
hard.
It
is
and-
and
but
you
know,
and
I'm
speaking
directly
to
our
our
you
know-
middle
management,
our
supervisors
out
there.
F
J
That
point,
so
we
you
know
we're
constantly.
You
know,
we've
got
lots
of
training
courses
out
there.
We
have
a
whole
performance
management
course
that
we
send
all
all
managers
through
and
constantly
encouraging
that
it's
just
very
important,
and
I
and
I
understand
that
I'm
I'm
a
leader,
I'm
a
manager
and
and
it's
it's
difficult
sometimes,
but
you
have
to
manage
and
you.
K
H
Thanks
chairman,
I
feel
like
I'm
in
court
when
I
hear
the
fuzz,
that's
a
that's
what
you
do
when
you
approach
the
bench.
Some
of
the
jury
can't
hear
you
all
right.
I've
got
two
nuts
and
bolts
questions,
but
I
want
to
say
I
used
to
run
the
aoc,
and
so
I
wish
I
had
this
option
and
so
long
as
you're
they're
supervising
people
appropriately.
I
think
this
is
really
good.
I've
been
in
courts.
M
H
H
I
H
Know,
representative
graham,
has
most
of
frankfurt
and
so
not
necessarily
exactly
my
concern,
but
we
all
care
about
franklin
county.
How
are
we
going
to
make
sure
that
the
occupational
taxes
go
to
anderson
county
or
wherever
they're
supposed
to
go.
M
J
Great
question
in
in
our
telecommunity
package,
that
is
one
of
the
forms
that
the
employee
and
the
manager
fills
out
to
the
work
schedule.
So
it's
determined
and
it
has
on
there
with
the
work
location
as
well.
So
it's
like
monday,
I'm
going
to
be.
You
know,
franklin
county
all
day
or
20
of
the
time
or
whatever
the
percentage
is
and
that
form
and
then
the
rest
of
the
week.
I
H
Otherwise
get
so
state
government
is
harming
them
then
this
will
do.
We
know
I
mean
this
is
going
to
be
perhaps
a
40
hit
to
the
to
at
least
the
occupational
tax
coffers
from
state
employees
in
franklin
and
frankfurt.
That's
pretty
significant!
So
do
we
know
how
much
this
policy
is
going
to
take
away
from
those
two
governmental
entities.
J
Actually,
you
know
that
was
a
concern
at
the
beginning
of
the
pandemic.
Of
course,
you
know
we.
I
had
some
conversations
with
the
city
of
frankfurt.
Specifically,
you
know
they
were
concerned
about
their
tax
base
when
employees
were
sent
home
because
you
know
they're
going
to
obviously
we're
not
taxing
for
the
city
of
frankfort,
but
as
we've
been
bringing
employees
back.
Of
course
that
has
increased
over
the
quarters.
I
do
monitor
that
I'd
be
happy
to.
H
Invite
you,
mr
chairman,
I'd
like
to
ask
for
that
just
the
information
at
the
end
of
this
year,
because
I'm
assuming
I
mean
that's,
that's
gonna,
be
a
big
hit
to
two
of
our.
You
know
one
of
our
counties
in
one
of
our
cities-
and
I
don't
know
if
jet
or
any
other
city
but
anyway,
I'd
just
like
to
know
the
numbers.
What
was
the
tax
base
in
19
and
what
is
it
going
to
be
sure.
J
H
It's
an
increase
from
20,
but
it's
not
an
increase
from
19.
It
will
be
a
it'll,
be
a
reduction,
so
so,
if
they
were,
if
they
were,
if
there
were
100
employees.
J
H
H
H
J
We
have
realized
some
efficiencies.
There
have
been
some
leases
that
have
been
terminated
out
in
the
state,
not
a
lot.
You
know.
That
is
something
that
I
can.
Definitely,
if
that's
information
that
you
would
like
it,
you
know
that's
finance
administration
cabinet.
I
would
have
to
defer
to
them,
but
I
am
aware
that
some
leases
have
been
been
terminated
or
consolidated.
Maybe
not
maybe
they
were
taking
up.
You
know
two
floors
in
a
building
and
now
they're
taking
up
one.
J
So
it
might
not
be
a
cancellation
of
a
lease,
but
it's
just
occupying
less
space.
You
know
we
have
been
able
to,
especially
on
the
partial
telecommute.
You
know
two
people
can
share
one
cube
per
se,
because
you
know
some
are
in
the
office
one
day
and
then
they
switch.
J
So
we
have
that
as
far
as
the
personnel
complement
you
know
this.
This
is
something
we've.
We
have
seen
an
increase
in
our
numbers.
Our
total
employee
count
a
little
bit
not
very
much.
We
are
pretty
steady
for
the
last
five
years,
some
of
our
areas.
You
know
we
have
seen
an
increase
in
staffing,
not
due
to
telecommuting.
J
I'm
thankful
in
our
correctional
series
we
have
seen
some
increase
in
correctional
workers
because
of
the
increases
that
you
know
the
governor
was
able
to
give
and
then
our
eight
percent
from
the
general
assembly.
So
we
appreciate
that
other
areas.
We
have
definitely
seen
a
large
turnover
in
and
and
but
if
that's
not
unique
to
kentucky,
you
know
we
are
talking
to
you,
know
our
peers
and
in
other
states
and
meeting
with
them
monthly
and
it's
an
employment.
It's
a
nationwide
issue
right
now
and
it's
not
just
in
the
public
sector.
You
know.
J
H
J
Know
recruitment
and
hiring
issues
before
so
we
that's
why
we
know
that
is
one
of
the
first
questions,
an
applicant
when
they
contact
an
agency
to
ask
you
know
about
it,
inquire
about
a
position.
If
they
see
a
posting,
is
it
eligible
for
telecommuting?
We
know
this
has
to
stay.
B
I
apologize
we're
gonna
have
to
move
on
okay.
I
can
see
this
being
an
excellent
study
for
our
staff
in
a
year
or
two
to
assess
all
these
things
so
that
that's
a
great
question
representative
and
I
honestly
have
not
even
thought
about
that
aspect
of
this
and
the
logistics
logistical
nightmare
that
could
cause
for
hr.
B
J
B
We
are
going
to
need
to
move
on.
The
final
presentation
is
on
unemployment
insurance
contracts.
We
have
secretary
linck,
chief
of
staff
flynn,
the
executive
director
of
the
old
office
of
unemployment,
insurance,
director,
hoskins
and.
B
B
F
F
M
Afternoon,
mr
chairman
and
committee
members,
thank
you
for
having
us
today,
I'm
the
chief
of
staff
and
general
counsel
for
the
education
and
labor
cabinet,
and
I'd
also
like
to
personally
thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
appear
via
zoom.
Unfortunately,
I
tested
positive
for
covid
last
week
and
I
still
have
a
bit
of
a
cough.
So
I
appreciate
the
indulgence
from
the
committee.
Thank
you.
F
F
F
The
the
text
is
small,
but
you
can
certainly
read
that,
but
the
number
is
is
the
the
most
important
thing
to
show
how
the
claims
ramped
up
and
then
likewise
in
april,
you
can
see
the
number
of
claims
filed
from
that
end
of
march
and
how
they
slowly
decreased,
but
still
stayed
at
unprecedented
levels.
F
And
this
graph
is
intended
to
show
the
the
impact
over
the
last
20
plus
years,
and
you
can
see
the
trending
over
the
years,
the
the
great
recession
of
2009,
2008
and
2009,
and
then
it
slowly
decreased
year
after
year
and
then
in
2020,
the
extraordinary
increase
that
was
realized
with
unemployment
insurance
claims
that
were
filed.
B
F
No
understand
times
of
the
essence,
let
me
get
there
did
I
miss
it.
F
F
We
had
a
an
incredible
number
of
claims
to
be
filed
and
we
needed
to
process
process
those
as
quickly
as
possible
and
get
help
to
the
people
that
were
impacted
by
by
the
pandemic
and
with
ernst
young,
we
had
a
company
that
had
national
experience,
if
not
global
experience
and
had
worked
in
this
area
before
so.
That
was
why
the
decision
was
made
to
proceed
with
with
ernst
young.
M
Happy
to
mr
secretary,
as
you
all
can
see,
this
is
sort
of
a
timeline
of
the
relevant
period
leading
up
to
the
ernst
young
contract,
starting
with
sort
of
the
necessity
for
the
contract.
So
in
2017,
the
the
prior
administration
closed
careers,
career
centers
to
in-person,
sir
in-person
oui
services
and
removed
about
95
staff
positions
fast
forward
to
the
pandemic.
M
Obviously,
there
was
a
declared
state
of
emergency
nas,
a
national
disaster
declaration
in
response
to
that
congress
passed
a
bipartisan
bill
called
the
cares
act
which
you
are
all
aware
of,
and
president
trump
signed
it
into
law
that
pardon
me
that
bill
created,
amongst
many
other
things,
three
brand
new
federal
programs
for
states
to
administer
related
to
unemployment
insurance.
M
Obviously,
as
we've
discussed
before,
there
was
a
massive
influx
in
unemployment
insurance
claims
under
those
three
new
federal
programs
and
which
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
later,
which
necessitated
obviously
a
response,
and
that
response
included
the
ernst
young
contracts
which
which
we're
going
to
discuss
and
and
we've
provided
a
short
timeline
here,
showing
when
these
relevant
events
occurred.
L
Somebody
all
right
so,
just
to
kind
of
give
you
an
understanding
of,
I
think
sam
mentioned
before
in
2017
with
the
closure.
We
also
had
hiring
freezes
decrease
of
the
personnel
in
it
in
the
cabinet
or
in
our
agency.
In
our
office
we
had
23
staff
adjudicating
in
the
adjudication
branch.
L
So
I
I
will
also
take
the
first
part
of
this
one
and
then
sam
will
jump
in
at
the
bottom
part,
but
part
of
the
first
part
of
the
the
pandemic.
As
you
won't
recall,
we
also
did
pop-up
locations.
We
had
them
in
frankfurt,
ashland,
owensboro,
louisville,
somerset,
hopkinsville,
covington
and
prestonsburg,
just
to
name
a
few
of
those
where
people
could
come
and
get
assistance.
L
Sam
mentioned
standing
up
new
federal
programs
back
on
one
of
the
previous
slides
that
we
were
showing
you
about
the
surge
of
the
increase
we
had
the
karex
signed
on
march
28th.
We
didn't
have
federal
guidance
and
we
talked
about
yupo's
in
your
packet
unemployment,
insurance
program,
letters.
We
didn't
have
guidance
on
those
programs
until
one
month
later
we
received
that
guidance
on
a
weekend
and
was
told
to
stand
it
up
by
the
start
of
the
week.
Our
week
starts
on
sunday
by
the
way
and
just
making
up
the
so
you
would
know
the
workload.
L
So
it
was
a
time
frame,
like
no
other,
as
the
secretary
talked
about
the
surge
of
the
claims
trying
to
get
staff
safe,
trying
to
make
sure
that
we
were
managing
the
workloads
and
also
trying
to
sand
up
a
system
that
could
manage
all
of
those
programs
and
through
our
intake
currently
and
sam
I'll.
Let
you
finish
up
this
slide.
M
I
should
have
learned
that
by
now
thanks
buddy,
so,
as
you
can
see,
obviously
quite
a
few
federal
programs
coming
into
existence
all
at
once,
a
large
influx
of
unemployment
insurance
claims
large
amount
of
of
filings
under
the
new
federal
programs,
and
as
as
buddy
mentioned,
we
didn't
receive
a
whole
lot
of
guidance
on
what
on
how
to
administer
these
new
federal
programs
for
at
least
a
month
following
the
the
signing
of
the
cares
act
now.
M
So
you
can
handle
this
influx
of
claims,
and
so
that's
that's
essentially
what
we
intended
to
do
and,
of
course,
the
the
amount
of
claims,
as
you
saw
from
our
earlier
slide.
What
was
indeed
overwhelming,
as
I'm
I'm
sure,
you're
all
aware.
L
So
I'll
talk
about
a
little
bit
about
the
ey
goes
in
early
on
and
throughout
our
process
of
coming
here.
Presenting
or
just
educating
the
public
there's
a
difference
between
what
is
an
issue
and
what's
a
claim
right.
So
an
individual
who
makes
a
claim
can
have
multiple
issues
within
their
claim
to
be
worked,
and
so
we'll
tell
you
that
when
you
see
the
mass
number
that
you
did
see
coming
through
and
you
notice
that
we
had
53
different
unemployment
insurance
program,
letters
coming
in
to
us
in
2020
and
I
think
30
some
in
2021.
L
The
issue
really
was.
How
can
we
get
that
reliable
knowledge?
Sam
mentioned
retirees
coming
back,
but
not
enough
right
to
do
so,
but
having
another
organization
or
group
that
could
assist
us,
and
we
knew
that
was
possible
with
ernst
young
at
the
time,
and
so
they
worked
and
issued
and
supported
working
issues
within
a
claim
and
or
working
those
claims
and
trying
to
address
those
opportunities,
both
in
the
first
contract
and
the
second
contract,
a
little
bit
of
focus
change
on
the
second
contract,
as
we
had
more
additional
training.
L
That
happened
in
labor
day
and
samuel
mentioned
this
too
labor
day
of
2020.
When
we
went
into
the
second
contract,
we
were
able
to
do
a
little
bit
more
training
that
address
issues
of
the
adjudication
or
fact
finding.
Those
are
one
of
the
same.
You
just
you're
going
to
hear
it
one
or
one
way
or
the
other,
to
try
to
assist
us
with
our
with
that.
A
tremendous
workload
at
the
time.
F
So,
moving
on
to
the
next
slide
in
the
first
contract,
I
won't
read
the
numbers
off
to
you,
but
essentially
a
7.6
million
dollar
contract,
but
the
cited
authority
that
was
utilized
to
execute
this
contract
was
a
sole
source,
emergency
exemption,
the
finance
and
administrative
policy
that
is
cited
there.
The
finance
cabinet
approved
the
project
or
the
the
contract.
F
F
And
continuing
again,
the
cited
authority
for
the
extension
was
not
feasible
to
bid
finance
did
approve
the
contract.
The
contract
was
was
pre-merger
of
the
two
cabinets
was
with
the
education
workforce
development
cabinet,
and
then
the
unemployment
office
of
unemployment
insurance
was
moved
to
the
labor
cabinet.
At
that
time
and
sam
you
can
pick
it
up.
There.
M
Yes,
and
and
thank
you,
mr
secretary
and
shelby,
if
we
can
go
on
to
the
next
slide,
obviously
once
the
unemployment
insurance
office
had
been
moved
to
the
labor
cabinet,
and
we
saw
that
there
had
been
a
need
for
additional
support
from
ernst
young,
we
entered
into
a
second
contract.
M
L
So
in
that
first
contract
you'll
see
there,
I
don't
have
to
go
through
every
piece
of
it,
but
you'll
see
the
amount
of
staff
that
came
in
to
assist
and
again.
This
was
about
working
issues
and
claims
getting
information
that
were
collapsed
by
the
claimants
and
that
were
not
complete
in
order
to
move
a
claim
on
and
then
in
the
second
contract
we
were
able
to
do
additional
training
for
them
to
help
us
prepare
and
do
fact
finding
in
order
to
make
some
determinations
that
allows
a
claimant
to
to
know
where
they
stand.
F
The
second
part
of
the
the
request
to
come
up
here
was
were
the
goals
achieved,
so
you
will
see
here
the
results
of
the
work
that
that
ernst
young
did
over
141
000
claims
and
issues
were
worked
by
ey
staff
and
in
the
second
contract,
almost
36
000
claims
and
issues
were
worked
and
buddy
has
taught
me
that
a
claim
can
have
multiple
issues.
So
if
a
claimant
submits
a
claim,
if
there
are
problems
with
that
claim
or
incomplete
information,
those
create
issues.
F
B
Do
we
have
a
breakdown
on
what
what
each,
what
it
costs
per
claim,
based
on
what
we
paid
ernst
young.
H
O
I've
I
have
several
okay,
please
proceed.
What
was
the
thank
you
for
being
here?
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Well.
B
O
L
O
F
O
F
Know
that
I
can
address
that
question
we
can
check
and
see,
but
by
the
sighted
authority.
I
I
don't
know.
Quite
honestly,
none
of
us
were
here
at
that
time,
but
we
can
check
to
see
if
there
were
any
outreach
to
any
other
potential
vendors
that
could
have
done
this
work
and
and
why
ernst
young
was
selected
as
the
best
and
obviously
things
were
moving
very
rapidly
at
that
time.
Right.
O
Do
we
have
any
other
contractors
that
were
performing
the
same
type
of
work
for
the
state,
or
was
it
solely
ernst
young
at
that
time,
solely
ernst
and
young
okay?
So
we
we
have
no
other
contractors
that
work
during
the
pandemic
doing
this
type
of
work
for
the
state,
just
just
regular
ui
staff
state.
O
J
P
Thank
you,
mr
chair
secretary
link.
I
don't
have
any
comments
or
questions
about
the
erson
young
contract,
but
I
do
want
to
take
this
opportunity
again
to
say
thank
you
for,
for
your
help
in
assisting
me
and
those
who
came
to
me
for
unemployment
insurance.
P
I
know
there
were
a
lot
of
concerns
about
people
weren't
getting
their
unemployment
but,
as
I
said
back
two
years
ago-
and
I
continue
to
say
with
regard
to
my
work
with
your
department
and
your
staff
all
but
one
of
the
people-
and
I
I
I
quantified
this-
I
had
58
people
come
directly
to
me
during
year.
20
and
21
seeking
help
and
50
of
57
of
them
got
their
payments,
and
I
really
appreciate
your
help
in
doing
that.
P
Only
one
person
didn't
and,
as
you
recall,
there's
some
issues
about
her
eligibility
as
a
kentucky
resident-
yes,
sir,
and
and
that's
why
she
didn't
get
paid.
So
I
just
want
to
take
this
opportunity
to
say
thank
you
for
for
all.
You
did
to
make
sure
that
the
people
that
that
that
that
I
assisted
not
all
of
them
were
in
lexington
somewhere,
as
you
know,
were
outside
like
sure
to
make
sure
they
got
their
unemployment.
So.
F
I
really
appreciate
that.
Thank
you
for
that,
but
the
the
credit
goes
to
to
buddy
and
his
staff,
the
the
office
of
unemployment
insurance
and
a
lot
of
our
career
development
office
staff
across
the
state
they're
there
with
the
boots
on
the
ground
they're
the
first
line
that
that
we're
dealing
with
these
claims.
F
B
Can
you
all
briefly
discuss
the
with
fraudulent
claims
in
general?
Do
you
have
a
total
amount
that
was
lost
due
to
fraudulent
claims?
Are
there
court
cases
pending
on
any
of
these
folks
and
then
the
other
side
of
that
the
employees
who
were
found
to
have
violated
the
law?
Why
weren't
they
prosecuted?
Where
are
those
employees
now.
F
I'll
just
start
off
by
saying,
mr
chairman,
that
in
in
terms
of
fraud,
obviously
there
have
been
numerous
media
reports
and
then
you
as
legislators,
know
that
was
a
significant
problem
very
early
and
the
cabinet
and
the
office
took
steps
to
change
the
pin
numbers
to
change
the
way
people
got
into
the
system.
F
But
we
went
even
further
and
implemented
a
program
called
id
me
that
has
multi-factor
authentication
and,
I
would
venture
to
say
it
has
almost
totally
stopped
fraudulent
claims.
Regarding
more
the
specific
details
that
you
ask
about
I'll
defer
to
buddy
and
sam
from
the
programmatic
side
and
from
the
legal
side.
L
So
you're
absolutely
right.
The
fraud
in
the
federal
programs
for
it
standing
up
so
fast
nationwide
will
end
up
topping
about
a
hundred
billion
dollars
worth
of
fraud.
That's
that
will
have
occurred
through
the
programs.
It
was
the
easiest
way
for
many
folks,
better
than
any
drug
deal
that
they
could
have
ever
done.
To
be
quite
honest
with
you,
and
that
was
on
the
federal
level,
and
I
mentioned
at
the
beginning,
it
took
one
month
to
get
those
instructions
on
how
to
do
this.
L
If
they
couldn't
upload
their
information,
they
can
go
into
a
local
office
to
a
resource
room
and
they
can
go
to
a
trusted.
Referee
schedule
time,
with
a
trusted
referee
through
idme,
we're
getting
ready
to
launch
a
kiosk
system
that
will
allow
them
to
do
the
same
thing,
so
that
will
give
them
three
varied
pathways
in
order
to
prove
who
they
are
to
make
sure
that
we
have
the
right
person
in
front
of
us.
So
I
think
that's,
that's
tremendous!
L
That's
the
first
piece
you
you
asked
about:
there
have
been
a
nationwide
task
force,
there's
a
statewide
task
force
and,
yes,
people
are
being
prosecuted
for
that
on
all
levels
as
they
come
through.
They
work
with
the
oig's
office,
the
ag's
office
on
the
national
and
estate
level
and
I'll.
Let
sam
speak
to
the
other.
Okay.
M
M
Thank
you.
I
think
there
were
two
questions
in
there
and
I
know
the
second
question
that
I'm
I'm
going
to
get
to
that.
So
just
bear
with
me.
I
did
want
to
address
the
the
remainder
about
individuals
or
bad
actors
that
are
out
in
the
state
or
nationally
or
internationally,
that
tried
to
seek
ui
benefits
through
our
system.
M
What
I
can
tell
you
and
what,
as
buddy
mentioned,
we
work
very
closely
with
our
federal
and
our
state
counterparts
and
as
well
as
our
local
counterparts,
I'm
looking
at
a
spreadsheet
right
now.
M
That
shows
all
of
the
instances
where
we've
supported
a
federal
law
or
federal
investigation,
whether
that's
the
united
states,
treasury,
the
dea,
the
doj
usdol
oig,
usdol,
proper
fbi.
In
their
investigations,
we
actually
created
a
a
way
to
fast
track
our
provision
of
records
in
support
of
their
investigations
so
that
they
can.
They
can
bring
those
people
to
justice
sooner
rather
than
later,
and
in
addition,
anytime,
that
we
determine
that
there's
been
fraud
on
on
the
state
level
from
individuals
that
are
out
in
our
120
counties.
M
Obviously,
our
local
prosecutors
are
going
to
have
jurisdiction
to
to
prosecute
those
individuals.
We
refer
refer
those
instances
out
to
those
local
prosecutors
so
that
they
can
take
action
in
their
own
communities.
Now
you,
you
asked
a
second
question
about
individuals
within
the
cabinet.
M
Pardon
me
that
filed
their
own
claims
and
I
guess
received
benefits
now.
Obviously
that
was
widely
reported
and
we
testified
on
this
very
issue
about
a
year
ago,
next
month.
Now,
of
course,
when
that
was
reported,
it
was
an
investigation.
Was
an
independent
investigation
was
immediately
called
by
the
governor.
M
M
That
report
lays
out
that
35
people
were
investigated
as
a
result
of
that
investigation
of
those
31
of
them
were
individuals
that
were
employed
by
the
cabinet
and
had
filed
claims.
17
of
those
individuals
were
actually
paid.
The
remainder
had
stops
put
on
their
claims
before
they
were
paid
out.
All
17
of
those
were
paid
because
of
the
the
auto
pay
that
had
been
put
on.
M
All
17
of
those
individuals
have
been
required
to
pay
back
the
the
funds
that
they
received.
Of
that
17.
A
smaller
subset
fi
are
sorry,
looked
at
their
own
claim
or
looked
at
the
claims
of
other
individuals
who
filed
a
client.
Those
individuals
have
been
disciplined.
M
Only
one
individual
filed
a
claim,
received,
benefits
and
had
actually
quote
unquote,
worked
on
their
own
claim
now
that
individual,
when
they
worked
on
their
claim,
we
can
go
back
and
look
at
the
the
metadata
and
see
that
they
actually
put
a
stop
on
their
claims,
so
they
wouldn't
be
paid
that
individual
wouldn't
be
paid
any
any
longer
that
individual
was
dismissed.
B
B
M
B
All
the
fraud
that
occurred
during
that
time,
what
what
was
the
the
dollar
amount
associated
with
that?
Yes.
M
So
I
want
to
make
sure
that
when
we
talk
about
fraud,
we're
talking
about
individuals
that
tried
to
get
unlawfully
get
into
our
system
or
filed
under
an
alias
or
what
whatever
and
not,
the
the
individuals
that
that
may
have
worked
in
the
cabinet
and
believed
in
good
faith
that
that
they
were
filing
a
claim
on
a
second
and
part-time
job
which,
with
some
of
the
individuals
that
we
mentioned,
did
do
but
were
ultimately
not
paid.
B
Okay,
co-chair
nemas,
I'm
going
to
alight
you
the
remaining
time.
Q
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
think
he
understands
that.
I'm
a
little
more
familiar
with
the
subject
than
most
here
and
I
want
to
I'll
be
quick.
I
could
talk
on
this
all
day,
but
secretary
linck
and
director
hoskins.
I
appreciate
you
being
here
and
taking
the
heat
because
it
was
put
on
you
after
the
you,
you
were
handed
the
aftermath
so
but
there's
some
things
that
were
said
that
I
need
to
clarify.
Q
First
of
all,
ernst
young
was
maybe
nationally
recognized,
but
they
had
nothing
to
do
or
any
knowledge
of
kentucky's
law
and
the
one
of
the
biggest
things.
The
problem
we
had
with
ernst
young
is:
they
were
not
qualified
by
the
feds
to
do
other
than
basic
things,
which
was
just
to
receive
a
call
and
get
the
basic
information
which
we
could
have
had
our
lrc
do.
Q
Who
offered
to
do
that,
and
it
was
late
in
the
game
when,
when,
when
the
cabinet
actually
asked
the
feds
to
allow
them
to
do
some
things
that
they
had
that
the
feds
had
to
give
permission
to
do
so
saying
they
were
qualified,
was
and
not
quite
right.
Okay,
another
thing
that
was
stated
that
really
means
nothing
to
the
contract
is
half
the
offices
were
closed
by
the
previous
administration
for
good
reason.
Q
We
won't
get
into
that
because
we
don't
have
time,
but
the
other
half
were
closed
by
this
administration
and
if
they
hadn't
been
closed,
they
wouldn't
have
been
operational
during
covet
anyway.
So
that
is
moot
that's
something
that
we
shouldn't
even
bring
up
it's
kind
of
like
a
casting
blame
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
this
ernst.
Young
contract,
I'd.
H
Q
We're
taking
notes
and
whether
offices
are
open
or
not
the
first
half
the
people
were
put
in
frankfurt,
so
it
wasn't
a
loss
of
all
the
employees
and
the
biggest
problem
that
we
had
during
that
time
was
not
answering
the
phone
and
part
of
that
wasn't
answered
a
phone
cause.
Q
It
was
shut
down
because
of
hacking
and
because
of
fraud
they
just
wouldn't
respond
to
people,
but
others
was
they
were
overwhelmed,
but
irregardless
people
were
not
getting
answered
either
in
office
or
when
they
called
frankfurt
or
came
to
frankfurt
and
stood
in
lines
so
the
federal
guidelines.
I
know
that
was
a
problem
because
they,
you
know
they
were
just
not
coming
forthcoming.
Q
The
computer
system
is
another
thing,
part
of
it
was
hacked
and
that
that's
a
good
reason
that
I'm
pushing
for
a
kentucky
cyber
center.
That's
off
the
subject.
Sorry,
mr
chairman,
but
the
once
again
you're
talking
about
the
old
system.
Cnn
did
a
story
that
that
governor
beshear
won
didn't
accept
the
money
back
in
2009
or
so
to
put
in
a
new
system.
Q
Governor
bevin
already
had
an
rfp
to
get
a
new
computer
system,
just
wasn't
up
and
running,
so
that
is
somewhat
a
legitimate
that
you
ran
into,
or
your
predecessor
ran
into
the
computer
that
wasn't
able
to
handle
the
the
system.
Q
F
I
think
that's
a
legitimate
question
and
I
think
sam
and
this
has
been
researched
and
sam,
can
you
address
the
the
reduction
of
staff
and
the
offer
for
lrc
staff.
M
Happy
to
do
so,
mr
secretary,
and
thank
you
senator
nemes
for
your
for
your
question.
I
think
there
were
a
couple
in
there,
but
I'll
answer
sort
of
the
last
one.
Apologies
one
moment
I've
got
a
bit
of
a
cough.
Still
in
the
letter
that
I
provided
to
this
committee
back
in
january
of
this
year,
I
laid
out
the
legal
analysis
that
our
cabinet
has
has
done,
which
shows
that
lrc
staff
cannot
provide
a
ui
services
period.
M
Kentucky
constitution,
prohibits
it
as
a
separation
of
powers
matter.
Kentucky
state
law
prohibits
it.
It's
in
krs
chapter:
seven,
it's
prohibited
by
federal
law.
As
we
mentioned,
the
merit
staffing
rule,
it's
specifically
prohibited
by
federal
regulation,
even
if,
even
if,
if
we
moved
away
state
law
and
if
we
moved
away
federal
law,
we
still
would
not
have
been
able
to
adequately
train
those
individuals
without
pulling
our
ui
staff
away
from
their
ongoing
duties
and
have
them
trained
up,
which
the
estimate
that
it
takes
to
have
an
individual,
fully
trained
to
do.
M
Q
Yes,
I'm
going
to
cut
you
off
there,
because
you
answered
the
question
in
detail
and
you're
going
further,
but
ernst
young
wasn't
qualified
to
do
what
was
needed
other
than
what
could
have
been
trained
of
just
taking
the
first
phone
call
and
saying
you're.
So,
and
so
you
were
hired
here
and
you
you
were
let
go
here
and
that
kind
of
stuff
what
you,
the
training
that
was
needed.
Q
Ernst
and
young
didn't
have
the
qualifications
due
either
and
by
the
federal
standards
were
not
given
approval
to
do
it,
even
if
they
were
trained
to
do
that.
So
I
appreciate
your
answer
and
another
thing
that
we
were
talking
about
is
the
offices
that
were
opened
up
throughout.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
represent
representative
sharp
is
credited
for
that,
because
it
was
his
bill
that
did
that
and
then
also
I
have
to
give
a
shout
out
to
someone
that
helped
the
legislature
tremendously
during
that
time
was
morgan
eaves.
H
A
follow-up
you
know,
I
would
say,
morgan
misses,
did
a
great
deal
as
well
and
a
number
of
other
people
also
and
some
in
the
governor's
office
that
were
very
helpful
and
I'm
glad
that
the
governor
made
the
transition
to
the
labor
cabinet,
because
I
think
it
got
a
lot
better
when
that
decision
was
made.
But
I
do
want
to
note
there
was
no
person,
no
in-person
availability.
So
for
someone
to
file
a
claim
from
march
2020
to
april
2021,
correct.
H
L
H
So
so
I
don't
understand
why
the
administration
keeps
lobbing
a
bomb
at
the
previous
administration,
saying
he
shut
12
offices
down
when
those
offices
would
have
been
shut
down
anyway.
So
you
agree
with
me:
don't
you
that
whether
those
were
those
offices
remained
open
or
not
had
no
consequence
for
well
over
a
year
from
the
first
covid
incident
in
kentucky?
You
agree
with
that.
H
M
Representative,
I
think
I
can
answer
part
of
that
question
and
I
think
that
the
significant
piece
here
is
not
just
the
closure
of
the
offices,
but
the
the
cutting
of
the
95
trained
staffers
that
provided
ui
and
employment
related
services
to
the
commonwealth.
At
that
time,
those
individuals
had
they
been
with
the
commonwealth
during
the
pandemic
could
have
provided
a
significant
amount
of
support.
Okay,
so
of
course
they.
M
H
L
L
We
are
about
99
completely
out
of
2020,
because
some
things
toggle
back
and
forth
and
then
in
2021
is
the
resident
the
rest
of
the
majority
of
the
claims,
and
they
said
in
the
first
part
of
the
year,
and
that
also
goes
back
to
senator
carroll's
notice
to
the
fraud
that
that
we
work
so
yeah.
I'm
not
talking
about
the
fraud.
So
in
january.
H
Of
2020
month
before
the
first,
I
think
the
first
one
was
february,
6
2020..
So
in
january
of
2020,
it's
the
administration's
position
that
the
delay
that
occurred
it
was
pre-coveted.
The
delay
was
was
out
of
line
of
his
of
historical
precedent.
You
needed
the
95
extra
people.
Is
that
what
you're
saying.
L
I
will
I
just
need
to
clarify
something
to
the
point
when
you
look
at
the
historical
numbers
right,
the
way
that
ui
budget
runs
and
if
you
look
at
those
numbers
in
2019
and
goes
almost
presidently
low
of
one,
I
don't
know
shelby,
you
could
go
back
to
that
slide.
That's
how
our
funding
runs.
So
funding
has
to
shrink,
and
so
the
staffing,
unfortunately,
when
it's
not
supported
only
by
those
federal
dollars
right
there.
L
As
you
see
what
141
I'm
trying
to
make
sure
my
progressives
are
right,
141
and
then
you
jump
up
to
the
higher
number
all
the
way
down
past
the
great
recession
shrinkage
had
to
occur
in
order
to
maintain
the
office
staffing
in
general,
I
was
a
part
of
the
2017
who
made
the
notices
to
the
career
centers.
I
I
know
when
we
made
that
notice
and
what
we
had
to
do
because
again
budget
couldn't
support
itself
staffing
couldn't
support
itself.
We
could
not
maintain
that
level
with
the
shrinkage
of
federal
dollars
coming
in.
H
I
appreciate
that,
mr
hoskinson,
I
think
I
think
this
was
a
massive
unprecedented
problem.
Governor
beshear
could
not
have
been,
could
not
have
predicted
it.
Nobody
could
have
correct,
but
to
lob
that
allegation
against
governor
bevin
is
wrong.
It's
not
right.
It's
a
it's,
a
it's,
a
cheap
political
point
that
is
continues
to
be
made
the
fact
that
they
weren't
those
sites.
Weren't
open,
had
no
consequence
so
anyway,
but
but
this
this
is
it's
not.
It
wasn't
governor
beshear's
fault.
H
We
had
this
unprecedented
and
he
tried-
and
I
know
I
watched
him
every
single
day
as
many
kentuckians
did,
and
he
said
this
is
unacceptable.
The
buck
stops
with
me
and
and
he's
gonna
fix
it,
and
ultimately,
it
took
a
long
time
probably
would
have
taken
a
lot
of
people
a
long
time,
but
ultimately
he
fixed
it
by
moving
it
away
from
where
it
was,
and
the
leadership
that
was
incompetent
to
the
labor
cabinet,
which
did
which
did
a
much
better
job.
H
Q
Another
question,
sir:
I
just
want
to
say
that
director
hoskins,
you
brought
up
something
that
we
overlooked
and
it's
rare
that
anyone
unless
they
work
within
the
unemployment
office
understands,
is
that
some
of
those
positions
had
to
be
taken
away,
because
there
was
no
federal
funding
in
the
federal
funding
actually
takes
care
of
those
the
personnel
in
the
unemployment
office.
So
some
of
those
positions
had
to
be
taken
because
we
had
no
funding
for
them.
L
Yes,
sir,
so
most
of
our
positions
are
federally
timed
fftl
fft,
I
was
just
a
federally
funded
time,
limited
funds
right.
So
as
long
as
you
have
the
money
coming
in,
then
you
can
have
the
position,
and
so
that's
the
reason
why
I
asked
to
go
back
to
this
slide.
It's
a
true
indicator
right
off
the
bat,
not
just
the
volume
of
the
work
to
your
point.
You
know
as
you
as
you
worked
in
that
cabinet,
but
it
goes
to
how
the
budgets
were
coming
in
and
in
the
federal
level.
L
Q
As
unemployment
was
low,
so
they
weren't
coming
in
with
the
dollars
to
have
the
employees,
then
they
had
to
be
cut
and
was
decided
to
be
cut.
So
then,
when
unemployment
skyrocketed
quickly,
then
you
keep
saying
95
employees.
It
doesn't
matter
how
many
employees,
nobody
could
have
handled
it,
and
we
couldn't
have
had
that
many
employees
anyway,
because
there
wasn't
the
money
to
pay
them.
L
F
We
just
sent
a
letter
to
senator
nemes
and
representative
weber
with
whom
we
are
working
on
the
unemployment
reform
task
force.
We
have
had
to
cancel
the
latest
rfp.
We
had
in
good
faith.
We
had
procured
a
new
vendor,
we
had
gone
through
negotiations,
everybody
was
in
agreement,
we
had
the
contract,
we
sent
it
to
the
vendor
to
sign
and
they
completely
went
silent
on
us.
We
made
numerous
efforts
to
contact
the
vendor
repeatedly.
F
F
O
F
O
F
Have
done
extensive
research
and
we
find
no
viable
off-the-shelf
quote-unquote
system
available.
F
If
so,
we
you
know,
other
states
would
have
done
it
as
well,
and
none
have
they're
all
going
the
same
route
we're
having
to
go
as
is
get
a
contractor.
The
federal
requirements
are
going
to
be
the
same
for
every
state
essentially,
but
the
state
requirements
are
different
for
every
state
to
some
degree,
so
it
has
to
be
developed
for
a
particular
state,
and
I
remember
those
conversations
with
representative
pratt
during
the
ui
reform
task
force
and
we
we
did
research
that
extensively
with
national
consultants
and
others,
and
we
know
of
no
such
product.
L
Can
I
just
add
to
that
that
there
are
things
that
we
are
doing,
sir
representative,
there
are,
there
are
products
and
pieces
that
we
are
doing
to
upgrade
we're
not
just
sitting
there,
we're
constantly
working
to
upgrade
the
siebel
system
and
to
constantly
try
to
give
us
wins.
We
do
a
strategic
planning
session
every
quarter
and
we
look
at
what
are
the
quick
wins?
We
can
do.
What
are
the
things
that
we've
learned?
What
can
we
make
the
system
do,
or
what
can
we
add
to
the
system?
L
N
Representative
beckler,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
mr
flynn,
would
you
please
provide
a
list
of
not
by
name
but
just
one,
two,
three,
four,
all
the
way
to
the
35,
what
the
investigation
was
for,
what
the
results
of
the
investigation
showed.
N
I'm
talking
about
our
employees
of
the
state
and
what
the
outcome
was
in
terms
of
discipline.
M
L
L
They
have
to
be
reviewed,
so
I
look
to
have
us
close
by
the
february
of
this
next
year
to
be
out
of
2020
completely
and
when
I
say
completely,
I'm
going
to
say
99,
because
there's
always
a
claim
that
toggles
back
and
as
soon
as
I
say,
absolute,
I'm
going
to
get
myself
into
trouble
and
the
same
thing
with
21
and
we
are
running
about
month
a
month
in
2022.
L
L
F
L
To
give
you
so
2022
gets
worked
directly
in
the
field
and
by
that
I
mean
in
the
local
offices,
so
that
as
people
are
coming
in,
we've
trained
fact,
finders
adjudicators
in
the
local
offices
to
be
able
to
work
those
claims.
So
we
are
really
pretty
much
month
to
month,
looking
at
it
earlier
today,
we
are
almost
touching
now
the
mid
august
point
of
that
now.
Please
understand
that.
L
None
of
us
sitting
here
at
this
table
could
do
this
without
that
staff
who
are
in
the
trenches
who
do
it
every
day
they
work
tremendous
long
hours
during
the
height
of
the
pandemic,
and
I'm
grateful
every
day
and
blessed
that
I
had
the
opportunity
to
come
back
to
work
with
those
fine
people
because
they
kick
butt
when
they
need
to,
and
every
time
we
have
a
situation
come
up.
We've
had
three
disasters
during
the
pandemic
period.
L
If
you
want
to
know
three
times
where
we've
had
to
also
rally
to
take
care
of
disasters
flood
in
august
or
july
right,
when
the
secretary
came
on
board,
then
the
horrible
disasters
of
western
kentucky
and
most
recently
eastern
kentucky
those
individuals
rallied
and
quickly
quickly
packed
up
and
moved
and
went
to.
We
went
and
again
I'm
going
to
say
this
and
we've
said
this
many
times.
Thank
you
to
my
sister
family
in
louisiana
that
we
went
down
and
picked
up
that
mobile
unit
and
that
solidifies.
L
Why
we're
getting
one
through
an
equity
grant
drove
that
thing
from
baton
rouge
up
here
and
we
were
able
to
to
work
claims.
So
I
I
just
want
you
all
to
know,
and
when
you
see
somebody
or
you
hear
somebody
who
says
they
work
for
ui,
they
do
kick
butt
they're,
not
perfect.
None
of
us
are
perfect,
but
we
have
done
extraordinary
things
in
a
period
of
time.
Like
no
other,
and
I
would
be
remiss
if
I
didn't
say
that
and
yes,
I'm
bragging
on,
I
consider
them
my
family,
because
they've
done
great
work.
Yep.
P
Mrs,
I
have
one
question
for
you
and
I
want
I'm
sorry.
Representative
nemes
is
not
here.
I
want
to
go
back
to
his
point,
but
I'll
see
if
I
can
can
get
my
question
answered
in
just
one
question
in
every
office
that
was
closed
by
the
prior
administration.
Was
that
office
staffed
or
put
it
another
way?
Were
there
people
working
in
that
office
at
the
time
the
office
was
closed?.
B
Said
here,
okay,
you
know-
and
I
don't
with
with
all
the
discussions
we've
had
over
unemployment
since
cove
began,
and
I
don't
want
anyone
to
think
that
any
of
the
comments
or
any
of
the
concerns
that
that
we
expressed
as
a
body
had
anything
to
do
with
those
first-line
people.
I
mean,
I,
I
can't
imagine
what
they
went
through.
B
I
mean
I
know
the
earfuls
that
I
got
and
I'm
sure
they
got
a
lot
more
so
so
we
we
respect
and
appreciate
them
all
very
much
and
to
this
day
and
it's
a
tough
job
and
tough
times
tough
decisions
had
to
be
made.
I
think
our
biggest
frustration
was
just
that
it
it
just.
B
B
So
I
think
there
was
some
some
top
level
mistakes
made
from
the
beginning
in
the
way
that
all
this
was
handled
and
too
slow
to
get
it
to
the
right
people
to
get
the
process
started
to
fix
it
and
from
our
end
I
think
that
was
a
frustration
because
call
after
call
after
call
people
crying
not
being
able
to
feed
their
families,
and
there
just
did
not
seem
to
be
a
sense
of
urgency
from
the
governor's
office
and
I'm
just
going
to
throw
it
out
there.
B
He
was
slow
to
react
and
you
know
we
should
have
been
further
along
sooner
to
to
help
these
folks
and-
and
I
you
know
that-
comes
from
just
frustration
for
so
many
calls
and
people
just
desperate
and
in
our
offices
struggling
to
make
calls
to
try
to
find
resources
and-
and
it
was
just
very
difficult
times-
but
hindsight
is
20
20
and
what's
important
is
that
we
learn
from
what
happened
through
that
and-
and
it
sounds
like
you
all-
have
made
progress
and
in
the
future,
we'll
be
able
to
deal
with
these
issues
again
and
that's
of
all
that's
the
most
important
thing
that
we
need
to
learn
from
this
and
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
political
posturing
and
claims
made
back
and
forth.
B
That's
just
the
politics,
unfortunately,
that
go
along
with
frankfort,
but
you
know
I
think
the
issues
could
have
been
solved
sooner.
There
was
help
and
other
resources
to
be
had,
and
I
just
think
that
the
decisions
were
not
made
quickly
enough.
Anyone
else
have
any
questions.
B
Okay,
miss
lewis,
thank
you
for
being
here
today
and
gentlemen.
Thank
you
all
for
being
here.
A
tough
issue.
I'm
sure
we'll
be
hearing
from
you
again
and
appreciate
all
the
information
that
you
all
have
provided.
I
appreciate
the
difficulty
that
that
you
all
have
gone
through
and
behalf
of
the
commonwealth
for
what
it's
worth.
Thank
you
thank.
F
B
That's
really
all
we've
got
not
enough
left
to
really
go
over
anything
else
that
we
were
going
to
so
we'll
address
some
of
the
study
topics
next
session,
our
next
meeting,
so
you
all
will
know
what
we
are
doing.
Studies
on
for
for
the
next
general,
if
there
are,
is
no
other
business.
I
will
entertain
a
motion
to
adjourn
stand
adjourned.