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From YouTube: Government Contract Review Committee (1-10-23)
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A
The
minute
should
reflect
that
a
quorum
is
present
and
the
committee
is
duly
constituted
to
conduct
a
business,
so
we
do
have
several
new
members.
Just
would
like
to
welcome
the
new
members
to
the
committee
representative,
Beverly
Chester,
Burton,
representative
Bobby,
McCool,
representative
Michael,
Pollock
and
Senator
Gary
Boswell,
so
welcome
to
the
government
contract
Review
Committee
pursuant
to
krs-45a
705
government
contract
review
committee
committee.
Members
serve
two-year
terms,
so
the
committee
chairs
are
elected
by
committee
members
also
for
two-year
terms.
A
C
Yes,
I'd
like
to
make
a
recommendation
for
representative
part
as
culture
representative.
A
A
A
G
Okay,
thanks
first
item
on
the
agenda,
is
the
consideration
of
the
minutes
of
the
December
13th
meeting
of
the
committee?
Is
there
a
motion
that
that
may
be
considered
for
the
approval.
G
Motion
carries
total
number
of
items
on
the
agenda.
Today
is
274
in
the
amount
of
29
million.
Seven.
Oh
excuse
me:
29
billion
799
million
839.
G
Next
order
of
business
is
a
consideration
of
the
agenda,
including
the
personal
service
contract
list,
the
PSC
Amendment
list,
memorandum
of
agreement
list,
memorandum
of
agreement,
Amendment
list,
Kentucky
entertainment,
incentive
program,
agreement
list
and
the
correction
list,
except
for
those
items
selected
for
further
review.
Do
we
have
a
motion
to
consider
the
contracts
reviewed
without
objection?
Second,
all
those
in
favor
vote
I
all
postal,
no
clerk,
please
call
the
Rope.
G
I
K
K
I
missed
that
much
congratulations
and
look
forward
to
working
with
you
as
I.
Have
these
many
years
I
appreciate
you,
ladies
being
for
us
this
morning.
Of
course,
I
have
regarding
this
contract,
because
I
received
correspondence
from
Jennifer
fraker
from
your
office
about
this
contract
in
I.
K
Guess
she
has
appeared
before
our
community,
our
committee
before,
because
she
knows
I
have
a
real
aversion
to
contracts
that
or
considered
kind
of
social
source,
and
the
scenario
she
outlined
for
me
is
that
the
original
intend
this
contract
was
develop,
a
program
to
assist
students
transferring
from
two-year
programs
to
four-year
programs.
K
In
her
words,
after
exploring
options,
counselor
post-secondary
education
chose
to
work
at
the
University
of
Kentucky
and
Dr.
Greg
is
at
Hillman
Holloman
harlemen
to
build
this
program
and
to
continue
with
with
her
explanation
that
the
original
estimate,
primary
estimates
were
that
it
would
cost
over
eight
hundred
thousand
dollars,
but
the
University
of
Kentucky
could
do
it
for
significantly
Less.
In
fact,
at
this
point
in
time,
we've
invested
180
000
in
this
project.
K
K
H
Us
it
sounds
like
when
you
are
programming
software,
it's
kind
of
like
a
work
for
art,
a
work
of
art,
especially
when
it's
Boutique
software,
or
something
with
that's
this
just
just
this
type
of
software,
so
the
people
we
reached
out
to
did
not
really
want
to
just
finish
the
project
they
wanted
to
get
into
the
project
and
kind
of
make
their
own
Mark
and
rewrite
various
pieces
of
the
program
and
through
phase
one
of
that
project,
I
think
we
had
received
a
quote.
That
was
almost
three
hundred
thousand
dollars
just
to
address
phase
one.
H
Well,
that's
more
than
we
spent
for
the
entire
project
to
this
point
and
we
are
not
flush
with
cash
and
we
just
did
not
have
that
line
around
to
spin.
So
we
we
stopped
the
project
we
put.
The
project
on
hold
went
back
to
the
drawing
board
and
just
tried
to
work
up
other
scenarios
of
what
we
could
do
to
just
finish.
The
project
and,
quite
frankly,
the
intent
of
this
contract
is
to
I,
don't
really
want
to
say
sever
the
relationship
with
Damar
systems.
H
But
it
is
to
complete
the
system
and
to
train
us
on
how
to
house
the
system
from
this
point
forward
and
make
sure
that
we
can
maybe
contract
with
graduate
students
or
the
University
of
Kentucky
or
Louisville
or
any
post-secondary
institution
in
the
state
to
insert
information
into
the
system.
So
we
can
get
it
back
in
our
court.
H
K
And
I
can
appreciate
that,
but
you
know
in
the
technology
world
is
changing
at
light,
speed
and
I
was
expected.
Possibly
it
could
be
less
significantly
less
than
a
million
1.2
billion,
but
we
don't
know
because
a
former
RFP
wasn't
developed
for
this.
So
did
you
folks,
reach
out
to
the
university,
could
take
it
or
did
they
reach
out
to
you?
Regarding
this,
we.
J
So
we
were
working
with
Dr
heileman
on
some
other
projects
and
this
he
had
developed
a
similar
system
in
New
Mexico.
So
he
had
experience
doing
this,
and
so
since
we
were
doing
other
work
with
the
University
of
Kentucky,
we
decided
to
to
work
with
him
and
get
that
same
kind
of
system
up
and
running
in
our
state.
H
Was
the
University
of
Kentucky,
because,
through
that
contract,
a
lot
of
it
was
graduate
students
doing
the
work
so
the
way
that
contract
was
written
is
we
were
paying
scholarships
for
The
Graduate
students
work
studies
for
The
Graduate
students
to
write
the
program.
The
program
is
actually
it's
written.
What
is
not
done
is
the
information
to
backfill
that
program
with
three
years
of
academic
data
has
not
been
completed,
and
the
testing
of
that
data
for
break
fixes
has
not
been
completed
so
of
this
contract.
It
can
be
broken
down.
H
There's
about
forty
five
thousand
dollars
of
it.
That's
programming
that
we
think
will
be
used
for
the
upload
of
data
and
any
changes
for
testing.
Now.
Outside
of
that,
there
is
money
set
aside
for
fifteen
thousand
dollars
for
hosting
it's
actually
not
through
this
company.
They
would
have
to
pay
an
AWS
vendor
to
do
that.
H
K
The
balance
of
it
a
couple
things
concern
me
about
this:
first
being
he's
worked
for
the
University
of
Kentucky,
but
it
appears
he's
claiming
some
proprietary
rights
to
these.
This
software
and
I,
don't
think,
should
be.
You
know
not
pretend
to
be
an
attorney
here,
but
I've
seen
a
few
episodes
of
Perry
Mason,
and
it
just
concerns
me
that
you
contract
for
the
University
of
Kentucky
for
a
product.
That's
not
finished.
K
The
person
who
developed
the
program
goes
to
work
for
someone
else,
and
now
you
kind
of
held
captive,
and
we
got
to
work
with
him.
It
just
doesn't
pass
the
smell
test
here.
You
know,
and
it
concerns
me
greatly,
that
our
our
largest
research
Universe
in
this
state
does
not
have
the
capacity
nor
the
expertise
to
finish
out
this
project.
Well,.
H
And
that
may
be
a
misstatement,
because
I
I'm
positive
that
if
they
put
their
heads
together,
there
is
expertise.
There
I
think
what
it
probably
boils
down
to
most
likely
is
that
to
bring
someone
up
to
speed
on
the
project
and
to
have
them
learn
the
programming
behind
it
and
the
code
behind
it
was
maybe
more
I'm
going
to
say
more
trouble
than
it
was
worth,
but
more
trouble
than
it
was
worth
well.
K
H
Well-
and
it's
not
an
ideal
situation
and
the
intent
of
this
contract
is
to
get
out
of
this
contract
because
through
part
of
this,
we
are
trying
to
understand
the
code
better.
We
do
not
have
an
I.T
Department
during
all
of
this
RIT
Department
was
Consolidated
with
cot
and
everyone
we
had
working
on
the
I.T
aspects
of
this
were
transitioned
into
cot,
so
we
did
not
necessarily
have
the
expertise
to
speak
to
the
University
of
Kentucky
and
other
people
about
how
this
should
be
written.
H
So
now
that
we've
had
time
to
regroup,
we
have
brought
some
people
on
board.
Actually,
we
do
have
a
contract,
the
University
of
Kentucky
too,
for
other
technology
programs
where
part
of
this
contract
is
Dr.
Hadtleman
comes
in
and
we
review
the
code
with
these
people
and
then
we
take
ownership
of
it.
K
K
H
K
E
Just
ask:
no,
let
him
go
well
just
to
ask
a
question
right
here
either.
One
of
you
all
could
could
answer
this.
For
me,
I
hope
the
program
will
provide
students,
faculty
and
staff
with
enhanced
tools
to
communicate
degree
requirements
to
students.
Could
you
help
me
out
on
what
enhanced
tools
means
absolutely.
J
So
right
now,
if
a
student
wants
to
go
to
the
University
of
Kentucky
or
Eastern
Kentucky
University,
they
would
go
to
those
separate
websites.
Look
through
the
websites
find
the
programs
and
the
program
requirements.
What
we
do
here
is
we
take
all
of
these
degree
plans
and
degree
plans
being
semester
by
semester,
maps
of
how
do
you
get
this
bachelor's
degree
in
four
years.
J
E
Thank
you,
Mr
co-chair
therein
was
was
the
second
question
that
that
you
stimulated
in
me
when
I
went
to
college
back
when
they
were
still
using
Papyrus
to
write
on
I
saw
my
faculty
advisor
twice
when
I
initially
signed
up
for
courses
as
a
freshman
and
I'm.
Almost
my
last
day,
there.
E
J
Well,
I
think
it
complements
so
we're
not
trying
to
supplant
the
role
of
of
Faculty
or
professional
advisors
either
one
this
is
for
students
who
are
contemplating
going
to
a
school.
You
know
sitting
in
their
living
room
thinking
what
what
is
my
next
step?
They
can
go
in
and
talk
to
an
advisor
and
have
a
little
bit
more
information
in
their
back
pocket
to
better
understand
what
each
school
offers
and
what
they
need
to
do
and
what
previous
coursework
they
can
bring
in
in
order
to
complete
a
degree.
L
Thank
you,
Mr
co-chair
and
really
this
is
to
follow
up
mostly
on
the
chair
and
I.
Couldn't
help
it.
My
lawyer,
hat
popped
on
into
it.
Has
there
been
in
is:
has
this
been
sent
over
to
legal
counsel
to
gives
information
on
it
before
we
take
tax
dollars
and
take
care
of
it?
If
they're
in
again,
I,
don't
know
what
the
contract
is?
H
L
G
H
J
C
K
That's
important
point
to
me
because
again
it
just-
and
this
may
be
all
above
board-
I'm-
not
assuming
that
anybody
is
doing
anything
nefarious,
but
it
just
doesn't
pass
this
smell
test.
I,
don't
mention
you
had
a
contract
for
finished
product.
It's
not
finished.
The
folks
who
you
contracted
with
are
not
living
at
the
commitment.
To
finish
this.
K
You
gotta
you
got
to
give
to
somebody
else
and
you're
who
you're
getting
into
is
a
person
who
developed
the
program
to
begin
with
and
they're
certainly
going
to
benefit
from
it,
because
now
they're
going
to
get
a
paycheck,
it
just
doesn't
look
good
I'd
have
a
much
better
Comfort
level.
If
University
recognized
their
contractual
obligation
to
give
you
a
finished
product
and
let
them
contract
with
this
company
and
and
then
it
gets
all
wrapped
up
very
nicely.
They
deliver
it
to
you.
H
I,
don't
disagree,
I
think
when
we
looked
at
this.
This
was
given
the
past
relationships
and
what
we
were
up
against.
It
was
a
way
to
involve
ourselves
even
more
in
the
process
and
to
make
sure
that
we
had
direct
communication
with
the
vendor
to
make
sure
it
actually
did
get
done
and
that
we
were
on.
We
were
the
negotiators
in
the
process
and.
K
I
appreciate
that
I
know
what
you're
trying
to
accomplish
not
trying
to
be
difficult
but
again,
I
think
this
is
a
very
dangerous
precedent
for
us,
and
would
you
is
there
a
sense
of
urgency
about
this?
If
not,
could
we
defer
this
for
a
month?
Well,
you
folks
could
have
this
conversation
in
the
University
of
Kentucky.
Explain
our
objection.
My
objection.
H
J
We
the
plan
the
original
plan,
was
to
have
this
up
and
running
in
February
and
absolutely
completed
with
all
bugs.
You
know
fixes
all
of
that
by
June,
so
mainly
I'm
prepared
for
the
next
ACT.
H
K
G
G
The
motion
was
to
to
approve
or.
G
With
no
second
motion,
contract
do
I
have
another
motion
for
this
disapproval.
G
Contract
contract
moves
forward
without
approval
or
disapproval.
G
The
next
item
on
the
full
list
are
with
the
Department.
Thank
you
guys
for
coming.
We
appreciate
it.
The
next
items
on
the
pull
list
are
the
with
the
Department
of
Criminal
Justice
training
and
is
number
five
on
the
routine
PSC
green
list
and
number
one
on
the
personal
service
contracts
for
ten
thousand
dollars
and
under
golden
and
under
the
Goldenrod
list
it
represents.
Senators
are
here,
please
come
forward
and
please
identify
yourself
for
the
record.
N
K
Foreign
I
do
Mr
chair,
thank
you
and
thank
you
for
being
present.
I
really
think.
I
want
to
talk
about
obviously
number
five
under
personal
service
contract,
but
also
there's
another
contract.
K
Yes,
number
one
on
the
personal
service
contracts
for
ten
thousand
and
under
the
first
contract
is
of
with
Jana
Vice,
and
the
second
is
for
Canaria
Brown
and
the
contract
descriptions
are
the
same.
It
says,
provide
funds
for
executive
development,
speaker
the
criminal
justice,
executive
development
course
on
topics
of
leadership
and
diversity.
K
I
guess
the
first
question
I
have
is:
does
our
Department
of
Criminal
Justice
have
issues
with
diversity.
M
That
that
course
is
not
specifically
on
diversity,
it's
more
on
bias
and
how
they
affect
our
decisions,
because
what
she
teaches
that
we
all
have
biases
and
that,
if
we
know
what
those
are,
we
can
more
effectively
make
sure
they
don't
influence
the
way.
We
think
about
issues.
M
Just
so
that
that
we
understand
that
you
know
not,
everybody
comes
from
the
same
background.
We
all
look
at
things
in
a
different
way
and
that
if
we
understand
that,
then
it
can
make
communication
more
effective.
O
M
K
The
basis
for
the
request
are
there
numerous
complaints
regarding
these
topics?
Do
we
have
any
data
we
can
work
with
and
what
I'm
getting
is
I've
always
been
a
position.
Every
dollar
we
spend
is
Commonwealth.
There
should
be
some
return
on
investment
and
I'd
like
to
see
the
data
that
supports
the
recommendations
for
spending
funds
like
this.
So
that's
why
I
asked
a
question
are:
are
there
issues
if
there
are
issues
where's?
The
data.
K
M
The
one
contract
for
Dr
Brown
is
for
the
the
bias
block.
The
other
is
for
executive
writing,
so
they're
for
different
topics.
K
Would
you'd
like
me
to
disapprove
this
contract
today
or
we
prefer
to
defer
it
and
come
back
next
month
and
possibly
give
me
some
better
information.
K
K
The
minister,
if
any
other
questions,
I'm
sorry
Senator,
Yates,
Senator,.
L
Not
just
in
Kentucky
but
but
enough
where
we've
been
have
shown
our
ugly
head
several
times
in
Kentucky,
because
the
different
racial
disparities
that
we've
seen
in
our
Criminal
Justice
System
repeatedly.
L
It
was
one
that
lost
the
young
lawyers.
We
learned
about
early
on,
it's
not
something
that
may
or
may
not
it's
something.
That's
been
proven
repeatedly
and
we
work
constantly
to
try
to
fix
that.
I've
worked
in
the
Commonwealth
attorney's
office
at
the
Attorney
General's
office,
we've
done
special
prosecutions,
I
have
prosecuted
I've
defended
and
it
is
very,
very
real.
We
know
that.
There's
no
doubt
about
that
at
this
point
so
and
I
know
that
that
constant
training
is
important
because
it's
it's.
L
We
see
that
not
only
in
in
all
aspects
of
life,
including
this
legislature,
and
we
all
work
to
try
to
improve
that.
So
I
know
that
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky,
previously
in
I,
mean
past
decades
was
a
requirement
that
we
had
to
take
certain
steps
in
order
to
do
so
and
I
know
that
when
we
don't
when
we
see
that
we
fall
behind,
we
pay
out
quite
a
bit
of
money,
a
tax
dollars
money
I
mean
lawsuits
right.
L
I
have
two
going
right
now
in
a
civil
case,
so
we
asked
why
it
would
be
important
to
do
this.
Training
as
it
relates
to
making
sure
and
and
you
expanded
on
I
know.
Sometimes
these
narrow
definitions
that
they're
kind
of
in
a
box
and
I-
surely
don't
want
you
to
testify
this
committee
and
try
to
give
you
know
your
your
job,
wouldn't
to
be
the
the
speaker.
L
It
made
me
a
better
prosecutor
because,
ultimately,
we're
looking
for
justice
and
so
I
appreciate
you
being
here
and
I
mean
I'm,
hoping
that
answers
some
questions,
I
know,
and
maybe,
if
you
do
have
to
come
back,
we
can
come
back
with
some
of
those
statistics
just
showing
that
how
that's
affected
us,
how
we've
improved
that
and
really
what
we
really
need
to
do
to
and
to
prove
really
the
criminal
justice
system
all
in
all
in
Kentucky,
because,
ultimately,
if
we
are
having
those
disparities,
then
we're
filling
thanks.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you,
Mr
coach
here
to
follow
up
with
Senator
Meredith
I
guess
with
his
question
whether
there's
evidence
that
the
training
for
the
reasons
for
the
training
I
have
a
second
question.
Is
there
any
evidence
that
this
training
over
time
has
made
an
appreciable
difference.
M
Well,
I
know
the
when
we
get
feedback
after
the
the
class,
when
we've
had
this
in
the
past
that
everyone
is
always
very
appreciative
of
the
training
they
appreciate
it.
They
they
like
the
way
it's
presented
by
Dr
Brown.
M
So
yes,
as
a
matter
of
fact,
some
agencies
have
actually
contracted
her
to
to
come
to
their
departments
and
train
the
entire
department.
So
we
have
gotten
very
positive
feedback
from
from
her
training
in
the
past
yeah.
E
Just
one
one
follow-up:
if,
if
I
could
please
we
talk
about
all
these
despair,
all
these
disparities
and
and
we
talk
about
certain
groups
and
I-
think
it's
rather
easy
to
see
that
I'm,
I'm,
probably
technically
part
of
one
of
those
groups,
liking
a
particular
program
and
liking.
How
someone
teaches
the
program
and
leaving
and
and
doing
high
fives
after
a
program
is
is
presented,
is
is
one
thing
I'm?
E
M
E
But
once
money
is
spent,
it
is
spent,
and
that
is
a
singular
outcome
and
I
just
want
to
express
some
concern
in
in
that
particular
area.
I
appreciate
what
you,
gentlemen
are,
are
are
presenting
here
and
and
what
what
you're
trying
to
do
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we
are
using
the
taxpayers
money
most
wisely.
But
thank
you
thank
you.
Mr
co-chair.
L
Thank
you,
Mr
co-chair,
I,
well,
first
of
all,
I
would
agree
with
my
colleague
that
we
need
to
be
doing
so
much
more
on
these
type
of
things.
I
think
that
we
need
to
be
doing
it.
We
want
to
make
sure
we're
doing
it
in
the
best
way.
The
other
day
that
we
had
required
sexual
harassment,
training
body
didn't
hear
anyone
who,
in
Holland
over
whether
or
not
we
should
have
that
type
of
training,
for
some
reason
that
the
diversity
training
may
be
an
issue
training's.
A
good
thing.
Education
is
a
good
thing.
G
All
right
any
other
questions,
if
not
we're
going
to
need
two
separate
motions
or
needed,
because
we
have
two
separate
contracts
with
two
separate
reports.
So
with
that
being
said,
do
I
have
an
emotion
on
the
third
I'm
asking
for
a
motion.
Yes,
I
have
a
motion
by
Senator
Yates
to
approve
the
contract
reviewed
without
objection?
Is
there
a
second.
N
G
B
K
K
Oh
I'll
make
a
motion
to
defer
item
number
one
on
the
personal
service
contract
list
for
ten
thousand
dollars
and
under
okay.
G
B
G
Motion,
moose
contracts,
care
or
move
forward.
G
K
I'm,
just
not
post
question
I'm
glad
to
clarify
that
I
would
like
to
see
some
information,
some
some
data
that
suggests
that
this
is
a
priority
for
this
particular
Department,
that
it
is
a
priority
for
whatever
reasons.
M
Yes,
sir,
the
the
one
speaker
was
a
speaker
for
executive
writing.
It
didn't
have
anything
to
do
with
diversity,
but
it
looked
like
those
were
were
listed
as
the
same
topic.
Yes,.
G
The
next
items
on
the
pool
list
are
with
the
office
of
the
controller
and
our
numbers
36
through
41
on
the
routine
PSC
green
list.
The
representatives
are
here:
please
come
forward
and
identify
yourself
for
the
record.
K
Good
to
see
all
of
you
again
and
happy
New,
Year
I
pulled
these
contracts
because
I
think
it
falls
under
our
committee's
responsibility,
examine
the
appropeness
of
any
exchange
or
resource
or
responsibility,
and
just
for
the
committee's
benefit
and
I
know.
We
have
a
limited
amount
of
time
here,
not
going
to
believe
the
point,
but
I
want
to
do
a
little
Medicaid
101
that
in
terms
of
payment
we
have
two
programs
one's
fee
for
service,
but
the
majority
of
our
expenditures
are
based
on
Medicaid,
Managed,
Care
organizations,
and
just
so
everybody
understands
that
with
Medicaid.
P
I
think
there's
been
some
really
good
work
on
the
part
of
the
general
assembly
and
the
administration,
particularly
as
it
relates
to
hospitals
and
emergency
service
providers.
Where.
Q
Q
P
I'm
just
an
indictment
of
anyone
I'm
just
trying
to
go
back.
You
understand
this
is
where
we're
coming
from
oftentimes,
what
the
from
the
provider
perspective.
Certainly,
what
is
said
is
that
Medicaid
pays
for
70
percent
of
costs.
Oftentimes
I've
heard
that
a
lot
that's.
K
P
Right
and
the
other
side
of
that
would
be
how
what
we
Define
as
costs,
particularly
on
the
administrative
side,
which
is
also
a
part
of
these
contracts.
So.
P
Think
it
is
what
I
like
to
the
way
I
look
at.
It
is
without
Medicaid
you'd
have
so
many
more
uninsured
and
no
payment
whatsoever.
K
You're
going
that
way,
but
again
you
you
don't
answer
the
question:
if
you
don't,
if
you
can't
recover
your
costs
and
let's
talk
specifically
about
hospitals
besides
my
back
right
now,
this
is
just
the
way
the
program
has
been
designed
right.
When
Medicare
and
Medicaid
started
in
6465,
we
were
supposed
to
pay
101
cost
in
over
a
period
of
time.
We
recognize
that
we
can't
afford
this
program,
so
we
have
started
to
find
exactly
what
costs
are.
It's
been
redefined,
redefined,
redefined.
K
Well,
we
already
send
that,
so
the
expectation
is
that
shortfall
has
to
be
made
up
somewhere
and
that
falls
to
the
commercial
pay
insurance
base.
It's
called
call
shifting.
It's
been
done
for
years
again,
not
a
diamond.
That's
how
the
system
supposed
to
work.
It's
it's
kind
of
a
hidden
tax
on
on
people
who
have
commercial
insurance,
so
you
make
up
that
shortfall
by
passing
on
to
commercial
patients.
You
have
to.
We
all
have
to
acknowledge
that,
otherwise
you
can't
be
in
business
year
in
year
out
only
getting
70
of
your
cost
correct.
K
K
P
Well,
at
the
time
this
was
years
ago,
we
have
had
fought,
we've
had
more
than
three
pretty
much
the
whole
time.
The
reason
you
have
more
is
in
case
one
gets
financially
insolvent,
we've
seen
a
lot
of
internal
industry
where
one
MCO
eats
another
MCO.
We've
certainly
seen
that
as
well.
So
it
is,
it
is
to
give
us
some
more
options
within
our
program
so
that
we
don't
end
up
with
two
or
one
when
the
inevitable
mergers
occur.
K
K
Respect
with
a
great
deal
of
resistance,
Court
trip,
I,
don't
think-
should
have
to
come
to
the
legislature
again
with,
but
again,
there's
six
different
contracts,
meaning
six
different
set
of
rules.
You
heard
testimony
this
summer
from
a
lady
who
a
small
provider,
five
employees
serve
a
seven
County
area
that
had
an
audit
by
an
MCO
found.
No
issues
whatsoever
had
an
audit
by
another
mcos.
She
owes
twenty
five
thousand
dollars.
They
can't
get.
P
There
are
a
number
of
different
that
you
can
see
similar
things
on
the
private
side,
as
well
as
the
public
side.
I
know
you
have
legislation
to
move
back
to
three.
P
We
have
sat
that
out
as
it's
moved
through
and
we'll
continue
to
do
that
so
I
understand
your
perspective.
We've
had
many
conversations
on
on
this,
in
particular,
so
I.
K
P
K
T
P
T
K
K
P
I'm
not
sure
it
costs
more
money
or
less
money.
I
think
it
is
it
is.
It
is
what
we
have
to
do
in
terms
of
oversight.
I
again,
we've
had
that
discussion
before
the
challenges
of
of
providing
strong
oversight
and
I.
Think
you
can
make
an
argument
that
that
that
it's
easier
to
oversee
fewer
I
think
there
there's
a
good
argument.
P
There
I
think
there's
an
argument
that
for
competition
among
the
mcos,
that
that,
having
more
provide
some
additional
competition
as
folks
try
to
influence
members
to
choose
their
MCO,
so
it
I
like
I,
say
I,
don't
believe,
there's
a
magic
number.
P
K
K
It's
great
that
the
urban
areas
have
the
resources
to
address
those
things,
but
not
rural
Kentucky
and
I've
heard
repeatedly
in
this
committee
and
Health
and
Welfare
committee.
The
how
important
rural
Health
Care
is
to
Kentucky,
but
I
have
seen
nothing
to
evidence
that
rural
Health
Care
is
important.
K
This
is
one
way
that
we
could
do.
That
is
reduce
that
administrative
burden
for
people
like
this
lady
who
testified
this
summer
on
this.
So
Mr
chair
I'm,
not
going
to
believe
the
point,
but
I
do
not
believe
that
six
contracts
is
appropriate
for
Kentucky
I,
don't
think
it's
a
fair
exchange
of
resources
or
responsibilities
in
places
a
tremendous
burden
on
Health
Care
Providers,
particularly
in
the
rural
arena
in
every
dollar
we
have
to
spend
on
administration
of
Health
Care.
It
takes
a
dollar
away
from
the
provision
of
Health,
Care
I.
K
E
Thank
you,
Mr
coach
here
and
I'll.
Try
to
be
brief
here,
since
this
is
the
area
that
I've
participated
in
for
over
40
years.
E
What
research
really
has
been
done
when
we
compare
the
different
numbers
of
mcos?
Let's
just
use
the
two
numbers.
Three
and
six
have
there
been
any
particular
studies,
any
particular
research
done
of
it.
Given
the
structure
that
we
have
here
in
the
Commonwealth,
which
one
of
these
would
be
the
most
efficient,
we
have
people
who
are
experts
in
the
field
and
sometimes
I
hear
them
say
well.
E
The
legislators
ought
to
take
a
look
at
this
ho
ho
ho
ho
I'm,
a
doctor
I'm
happy
to
look
at
the
research
in
the
medical
realm,
but
I
think
the
bankers
ought
to
take
a
look
at
the
research
in
the
banking
realm
and
some
of
the
other
Realms,
and
we
have
a
variety
of
people
in
our
legislative
body.
So
please
understand
that
sometimes
the
general
assembly
gets
a
little
tired
of
being
dumped
on
for
doing
other
people's
jobs.
So
the
two
questions
and
I'll
say
both
of
them
either.
E
One
of
you
all
can
answer,
and
you
can
write
them
down
if
you
wish
hasn't
been
any
any
movement
on
collecting
data,
comparing
whether
in
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky,
three
mcos
would
be
better
or
six
mcos
would
be
better.
Second
question:
I'm
a
little
current
I'm
a
little
concerned
about
the
comment
of
well
we're
kind
of
sitting
this
out.
E
For
some
reason,
we
often
look
at
the
at
the
general
assembly
should
be
active
in
all
of
these
things
and
working
in
all
of
these
things.
But
again
there
are
so
many
things
that
fall
to
the
other
experts
in
this
area,
because
we
certainly
cover
a
lot
of
other
areas
and
I
get
concerned.
When
I
hear
someone
say
well
we're
sitting
this
out
and
and
all
we're
asking
for
is.
E
Could
you
please
provide
us
some
information
in
this
area
to
give
us
to
give
us
more
information
so
that
we
could
make
better
guidelines
because
I
know
I,
know
I,
know
all
I
know
the
three
of
you
all
care
just
as
much
about
the
people
of
the
Commonwealth
and
the
taxpayers
in
the
Commonwealth
and
saving
their
money.
You
know,
or
at
least
being
good
stewards
with
their
money,
as
we
do
so
again
to
clarify
the
two
questions
have.
E
Has
there
been
any
information
gathered
to
compare
the
difference
between
three
and
six
mcos
with
regard
to
I?
Don't
care
what
California
is
doing
with
regards
to
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky?
And
why
are
you
all
sitting
this
out?
Thank
you,
Mr
Cho,
chair.
P
So
these
are
first
question
difference
between
three
and
six.
Has
there
been
any
studies
done
on
the
difference
between
three
and
six
within
the
Commonwealth?
There
have
been
some
studies
done
on
managed
care
and
its
Effectiveness
within
the
Commonwealth,
but
not
the
difference
between
three
and
six,
not
not
the
difference
between
adding
another
MCO
or
another
MCO
or
taking
one
away
within
the
context
of
this
conversation.
These
were
awards
that
were
made
to
the
mcos
years
ago.
It
is
currently
in
litigation.
P
Actually,
we
awarded
five
a
judge
put
in
six
so
again
that
what
I
said
was
and
and
what
I
do
mean
is
there
is
we
don't
know
of
a
magic
number?
We
just
don't,
and
so
I
I
want
to
be
clear
on
that.
P
Secondly,
that
these
are
contracts
and
extensions
of
existing
contracts
and
I,
think
I,
hope,
General
Assembly
knows
that,
but
I'm
always
always
willing
to
work
with
the
general
assembly
on
what
is
best
and
happy
to
provide
perspective,
as
well
as
what
we
learn
and
experience
together.
Veronica
do
you
have
anything
to
add
on
on
the
MCO
I?
Don't
I
don't
know
of
any
study
on
three
versus
six.
Q
Not
not
for
Kentucky,
especially,
but
something
we
could
do
is
lessons
learned
from
other
states,
so
there
may
be
a
national
perspective.
For
instance,
we
do
know
that
there's
five
states
that
that
limit
to
three,
but
all
other
states
have
more
than
that,
but
we
could
certainly
you
know
for
the
conversation
as
to
what
is
the
right
number.
You
know
we
can
go
back
and
and
take
a
look
at
that
for
the
future
RFP
that
happens
for
these
contracts.
Q
I
think
it's
a
fair
question.
I
will
say
that
I
think
one
advantage
and
let
me
say,
there's
going
to
be
strengths
and
and
weaknesses
with
each
model,
and
so
you
have
to
make
the
decision
of
like
what
are
you
willing
to
settle
for
right?
Now,
providers
have
a
little
bit
of
a
bargaining
power
to
say:
I'm,
not
gonna,
I'm,
not
gonna,
be
in
this
mco's
network,
but
I'm
going
to
be
in
this
once
and
so
they
can
choose
to
take
the
Managed
Care
organizations
Network
or
not.
Q
And
when
you
go
to
limit
the
number
of
mcos
it's
you're
potentially,
then
you
know
limiting
the
provider's
ability
to
contract
with
the
MCO.
So
I
think
you
know
they
also
have
more
bargaining
power
because
the
mcr's
are
going
to
have
to
have
the
provider
in
the
network
and
that's
what
we
tell
providers
right
now.
We,
you
know
there
is
Network
adequacy
requirements
and
they
have
to
show
and
demonstrate
that
they
can
cover
the
services
for
our
members
across
the
state.
So
you
know
we.
Q
We
always
encourage
providers
to
work
with
the
Managed
Care
organizations
and
come
up
with
a
fair
reimbursement
to
stay
as
the
provider
as
the
part
of
the
MCS
provider
network.
But
you
know
legitimate
questions,
certainly
happy
to
go
back
and
the
only
thing
we
could
do
Senator
is
is
look
nationally
and
and
the
lessons
learned
from
states
that
have
tried
to
limit
well.
E
Thank
you
very
much.
I
appreciate
your
input.
I
I
think
that
as
a
provider,
it
really
sounds
good,
but
working
working
with
some
of
these
ncos
is
almost
impossible
in
the
real
world,
and
we
certainly
would
appreciate
some
of
the
input
that
you
could
give
us.
But
I
really
think
thank
you
for
what
you're
doing.
L
First
of
all,
I
think
the
chair
on
this
one.
This
is
one
that
I
came
into
this
legislature,
very
ignorant
about
and
I.
Think
that's
one
of
the
things
we
do
is
you
know.
Sometimes
this
committee
can
seem
like
a
you,
gotcha
kind
of
thing,
but
really
ultimately,
if
we're
working
towards
good
government,
it's
a
positive,
and
so
obviously
the
information
and
knowledge
about,
especially
about
the
rural
care
and
those
needed.
It's
something
that
brings
to
the
table
and
then
my
colleague
also
in
his
medical
practice.
L
That
brings
something
that
I
would
have
a
level
of
English
I'm
on
the
other
side
of
it,
and
trying
to
negotiate
down
these
medical
liens
onto
my
personal
injury
practice,
but
but
I
think
that
would
be
very
helpful
if
we're
looking
at
Best
Practices,
because
that's
when
we're
on
the
floor
and
we're
arguing
it's
really
hard
to
make
that
determination
and
I
get
that
there's
not
going
to
be
a
easy
number.
We
can
know
what
the
overall
cost
and
the
impact
is
to
reduce
it
down.
L
If
that
how
that
cost
savings,
what
that
shift
is
and
I
think
that
if
we
go
in
and
educated
I
would
imagine
that
the
majority
of
the
members
would
agree
on
if
we
have
those
numbers
in
front
of
it,
if
it
makes
us
leaner,
more
efficient,
but
also
protected
in
case
they
do
gobble
each
other
up.
I
think
that's
something
that
we
can
move
forward.
I
know
we
have
legislation
come
before
us
and
so
I
appreciate
it
in
regardless
of
this
one,
these
particular
items.
U
G
E
G
K
G
G
K
I
understand
the
the
Havoc
this
would
create
if
these
contracts
are
not
renewed.
K
My
preference
to
Mr
chair
is
the
committee.
Just
let
the
contracts
proceed
to
finance
without
a
motion,
but
I
would
hope
would
send
a
message
that
this
needs
to
be
addressed
because
it's
a
serious
issue.
I've
been
preaching
about
it.
Since
I
came
to
Senate
in
2016.
K
G
K
It
goes
back
to
this
is
related
contracts,
and
that's:
where
are
we
with
the
FIFA
service?
Pbm
we've
deferred
that
time
and
time
and
time
again
and
I
think
the
current
contract
with
Magellan
is
going
almost
10
years.
I
understood
that
we
had
an
RFP.
We
were
asked
to
fraction
on
that.
We
have
another
RFP.
Where
are
we.
V
K
V
Don't
disagree
with
you
Senator,
and
it
is
an
open
procurement.
We
are
hopefully
close
to
nearing
the
end
of
that.
That's
all
I
can
say
right
now
with
the
open
procurement,
but
it
is
hopefully
here
soon
coming
to
a
resolution.
V
K
K
G
W
Morning,
good
morning
my
name
is
Sharon.
Burton
I'm,
the
commissioner
of
the
Department
of
employee
insurance
at
the
Personnel
cabinet.
N
K
N
K
Thank
you
for
being
here,
the
capsules
where
we
we
received.
It
makes
reference
to
Senate
Bill
178,
which
was
what
drove
this.
You
were
talking
about
specifics,
the
employee,
State,
Health,
Plan
and
doing
an
audit
of
prescription
drugs
correct
and
the
price
we
have
here
is
500
000,
I,
think
specific
to
the
amendment
on
this
bill
that
created
this,
that
they
would
be
paid.
No
more
than
30
percent
of
the
of
the
of
the
savings
is.
Is
that
correct.
K
K
W
Hope
more
than
that,
so
there's
really
not
a
good
Baseline
for
what
that
number
should
be.
W
K
W
The
medical
claims
they
go
through
a
number
of
audits
they
have
both
internally
and
at
our
TPA
as
well
as
independently.
They
have
a
someone
come
in
and
do
audits
of
claims.
That's
not
exactly
true.
On
the
pharmacy
side,
there
are
some
audits
that
are
done
on
the
pharmacy
claims,
but
but
it's
not
a
one
for
one
Pharmacy
versus
TPA
and
I
was
I
would
say
to
you
there.
There
are
a
lot
more
checks
and
balances
on
the
TPA.
W
K
I
can
show
you
there
are,
and
just
for
the
committee's
benefit,
that
studies
are
selling,
that
80
percent
of
medical
claims
have
some
type
of
error
and
of
those
80
percent
28
percent.
The
error
is
overcharging,
so
again
potential
savings
to
this
program.
So
that's
something
we
need
to
look
at,
but
that's
all
I
have
Mr
chair
of
no
other
questions,
comments,
I'll
entertain
the
motion
or
I'll
make
the
motion
to
approve
got.
G
The
most
motion
by
co-chair
Meredith
second
by
Senator,
Yates
clerk,
please
call
the
Rope.
B
G
Motion
carries.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
The
next
item
on
the
pool
list
is
the
University
of
Kentucky
and
his
item
number
44
on
the
routine
PSC
green
list
of
representatives
are
here.
Please
come
to
the
table
and
identify
yourself
and
once
again,
I
think
it's
co-chair.
Meredith
has
some
questions.
U
Good
morning,
Barry
Swanson
I'm,
the
chief
procurement
officer
for
the
University
of
Kentucky.
X
K
I
would
think
that
you
probably
knew
that
I
would
pull
a
Consulting
contract
and
particularly
Deloitte
Consulting,
because
they
seem
to
do
a
lot
of
business
with
their
Commonwealth,
which
it's
kind
of
interesting
its
own
right.
But
this
is
a
1.7
million
dollar
contract
and
it's
the
description
is
to
help
kind
of
organize
the
grand
set
that
have
already
been
received
and
maybe
identify
opportunities
for
new
grants
and
congratulations,
says:
you've
seen
a
40
increase
in
Grants
expenditures
over
the
past
five
years.
K
Just
curious.
What
the
if
this
is
Administrative
component
What's
the
total
amount
of
grants
that
the
UK.
X
Receives
sure
I'll
start
and
you
can
fill
in
Barry
if
that's
okay,
back
in
2017,
we
were
generating
about
300
million
dollars
of
research,
Grant
expenditures.
As
of
the
end
of
fiscal
22.
That
number
is
now
over
500
million
dollars
of
research
grants
that
we
have
generated
in
expenditures.
That
is
the
reason
for
the
need
for
this.
We
did
an
RFP
some
18
months
ago,
roughly
to
start
looking
at
this
Deloitte,
we
RFP
that
there
were
more
than
a
dozen
firms
that
responded.
X
Deloitte
won
the
RFP,
they
spent
three
or
four
hundred
thousand
dollars
coming
up
with
an
overall
plan
to
revamp
all
of
their
federal
grants,
processes
from
tracking
to
Administration,
to
reimbursement,
to
audits,
every
aspect
of
federal
grants
that
we
have
to
report
on
it's
very
cumbersome
process
and
across
a
big
Enterprise,
it's
a
big
undertaking.
X
But
since
we
have
increased
by
this
magnitude,
it
was
essential
that
we
come
in
here
and
revamp
our
process,
because
we
hope
fingers
crossed
that
we'll
continue
to
grow
at
this
rate
and
increase
those
Federal
research
grants
and
dollars,
as
we
continue
to
move
the
university
forward.
But
that's
the
need
for
this.
It
is
just
a
Enterprise
part
of
the
University
that
has
grown
exponentially
over
the
last
five
years.
K
U
They
were,
they
were
actually
both.
We
had
19,
we,
we
solicited
19
suppliers
for
responded
and
they
were
selected
by
a
committee
and
they
happened
to
be
low
and
the
best,
as
determined
by
the
committee.
L
First
of
all,
thank
you
for
being
here.
Congratulations
on
the
increase,
I
know,
that's
something
that
we
had
set
goals
of
you
know
years
ago
and
continue
to
reach
that
at
several
our
universities.
So
it's
it's
Kentucky's,
doing
good
things
just
in
comparison
of
best
practices
and
showing
my
ignorance
and
hopefully
somebody
else
is
on
the
same
boat
with
me
onto
it
is
that's
very
common
on
any
of
these
type
of
large
projects
like
that
to
contract
it
all
out
not
to
have
anyone
in-house.
X
L
X
D
Douglas
has
a
question
as
a
follow-up
to
Senator
Meredith's
question.
I
think
it
would
be
helpful
to
me
as
a
new
member
if
I
look
at
these
sheets
sometime
and
I
think
he
had
a
very
good
question,
and
that
would
be
helpful
to
me
if
there
was
some
notations
in
these
remarks,
indicating
that
there
were
12
rfps.
You
know
people
to
respond
to
your
RFP.
This
was
the
lowest
cost
and
evaluated
bid,
for
example,
and
then
that
would
eliminate
the
need
for
me
to
ask
the
same
question
that
Senator
Meredith
asked
this
morning.
D
E
Thank
you,
Mr
co-chair
and
I.
Just
have
a
very
good
question.
I
know,
I,
keep
saying
that
the
information
that
will
be
provided
to
you
and
and
developed
and
provided
to
you.
My
question
here
would
is
that
information.
Then
proprietary
information
for
the
University
of
Kentucky
and
owned
by
the
Commonwealth.
E
G
G
Second
motion
made
by
Senator,
Bob,
worst
or
Boswell?
Sorry
about
that
and
the
second
made
by
co-chair
Meredith
all
in
favor.
Please
vote
all
polls.
Please
vote
no
clerk.
Please
call
the
roll.
B
G
Y
As
a
Louisville
fan,
I
appreciate
that
comment.
Blake
Christopher
with
the
attorney
general's
office.
L
Thank
you,
I,
couldn't
let
the
chair
be
the
only
one
guys.
First
of
all,
thank
you
for
being
over
here.
This
one
jumped
out
earlier.
I
talked
a
little
about
our
background
and
knowledge
and
for
me
having
been
a
previous
Assistant,
Attorney,
General
I
always
looked
at
these
things
and
it
wasn't
just
this
contract.
It
was
back
in
June
at
a
meeting
here
we
passed
over
three
other
contracts.
L
So
this
particular
one
looks
like
it's
going
to
increase
from
40
to
60
000
dollars,
and
the
contract
description
is
almost
the
same
in
each
one
of
them.
This
one
particular
just
says
to
renew
the
contract
to
retain
conflict
counsel
to
litigate
and
advise
in
cases
which
the
office
has
a
conflict
under
the
rules.
Professional
conduct
is
needed,
and
so
what?
What
I'm
a
lot
of
people
who
aren't
you
know
familiar
attorneys?
L
We
know
that
if
the
professional
conduct
is
needed
that
that's
that's,
usually
a
disciplinary
action
with
the
bar
and
the
conflict,
we
used
to
just
do
complex
searches
in
there
like
I,
do
in
my
office.
So
it
got
me
looking
a
little
further
and
so
I
started
asking
and
I've
gone
through
this,
and
it
looks
like
that.
We've
spent
a
million
dollars
of
taxpayers
money
over
the
course
of
the
administration,
so
I
pulled
up
just,
and
this
is
I
can
only
go
back
looking
at
it.
L
I
know
that's
what
I
did
too
the
same
thing.
I
can't
that's
a
lot
a
lot
of
money,
but
I
found
it
was
entered
to
15
contracts
for
conflict
and
borrowed
disciplinary
council
with
five
law
firms.
So
it
was
a
total
of
980.
000
and
I
got
to
break
down
the
contracts,
but
this
is
another.
Now
this
other
twenty
thousand,
it's
a
million
dollars
of
something
that
when
I
was
there
I
thought
we
kept
it
in
in-house
now.
I
know
there
can
be
some
issues
with
litigation.
Y
Yeah,
thank
you
for
the
question.
Senator
the
what
I
can
do
is
speak
to
the
contract.
That's
at
issue
here
in
terms
of
the
aggregate.
You
know,
contracts
that
that
you
have
questions
about.
We
can
certainly
dig
into
that
and
follow
up
with
you
after
the
fact,
but
this
is
a
contract
for
the
last
12
months.
I
think
it
was
for
twenty
thousand
dollars.
We've
asked
for
another
twenty
thousand
dollars
the
first
year,
which
would
bring
the
contract
total
to
sixty
thousand
again.
This
is
for
conflict
Council.
Y
What
happened
was
we
had
a
flurry
of
cases
that
came
in
right
around
the
latter
half
of
last
year
that
all
came
in
right
around
the
same
time
and
we
looked
at
those
cases
and
made
the
decision
that
it
would
be
a
conflict
of
interest
for
our
office
to
represent
some
of
the
defendants.
In
those
cases,
the
two
cases
that
are
pulling
on
this
contract
both
are
federal
court
cases
and
so,
as
I
think
most
folks
here
would
would
agree.
Y
It's
a
little
bit
more
expensive
to
let
gate
right
in
federal
court,
then
then
elsewhere,
and
one
of
those
cases
is
with
a
pro
se
plaintiff
with
who
has
filed.
142-Page
complaint,
okay,
and
so
that
case
in
particular,
is
a
little
bit
more
expensive
than
usual.
Y
The
twenty
thousand
dollars
that
it
contract
that
those
two
cases
are
pulling
on
isn't
completely
spent.
Yet
we
want
to
be
proactive
as
opposed
to
retroactive
right
there's
about
eight
thousand
dollars,
I
think
left
on
that
contract,
but
we
can
certainly
foresee
that
with
two
federal
court
cases
pulling
on
it,
that's
going
to
you
know,
get
spent
fairly
quickly,
and
so
we
wanted
to
be
proactive
and
try
to
come
before
the
committee
and
ask
for
an
increase
in
this
before
it
was
emergency
situation.
If
I
may
continue
to
follow.
L
And,
first
of
all,
thank
you
for
that
at
the
age
office,
I
mean
that
and
that's
one
of
the
reasons
I
brought
this
up,
because
I
still
have
a
whole
lot
of
close
friends
over
there
working
tirelessly,
and
so
when
I'm,
looking
at
a
total
of
a
million
dollars,
that's
been
paid
out
and
I'm
thinking
about
the
individual
salaries
that
are
being
made
and
also
thinking
that
the
area
of
experience
what
so
it
I
know.
L
You
said
this
one,
but
we
have
three
hundred
thousand
dollars
right
now
that
this
committee
has
put
out
there
for
the
next
two
years
for
bar
disciplinary
actions
and
for
conflict
which
I
thought
we
could
do
a
conflict
search,
know
if
you
do
it
and
then
I
guess
for
the
litigation.
So
me
just
just
looking
at
it,
and
maybe
it's
just
written
up
wrong.
So
maybe
we
can
get
back
to
that.
L
But
if,
if
there's
bar
issues
and
it's
in
the
scope
of
employment,
I
can
understand
why
that
would,
but
would
there
be,
we
would
never
just
defend
someone
for
a
r
issue
or
disciplinary
action
outside
of
their
scope
of
employment?
Is
that
correct?
You?
Wouldn't
taxpayers,
wouldn't
pay
to
defend
a
member
of
the
ministry
of
the
AG's
office
for
disciplinary
actions
that
are
outside
the
scope
of
employment.
Y
That
my
understanding
in
krs-12
I
think
is
that
is
one
of
the
exceptions
right
from
when
the
governor
would
have
to
you
know,
defend
a
state
employees
if
it's
outside
the
scope
of
employment,
so
but
but
again,
I.
Think
to
your
question
about
the
aggregate
I'm
you
know,
I
can
follow
up
with
you
offline
about
that,
but
the
two
cases
that
are
pulling
on
this
contract-
that's
an
issue-
are
both
conflict
Council,
where
our
office
made
a
determination.
Y
That
would
be
a
conflict
of
interest
right
for
us
to
represent
all
the
parties
involved,
and
so
we
had
to
send
some
folks
out
to
conflict
Council,
and
you
know
my
take-
is
it's
why
we
have
this
contract
so.
R
Trying
to
speak
to
the
aggregate,
we
can
pull
the
reports
to
see
what's
been
spent.
We
often
put
contracts
out
so
that
attorneys
are
in
place
to
be
able
to
do
these
cases
and
the
ex
and
they
and
we
don't
assign
cases
and
there's
not
expenditures.
So
I
would
have
to
go
back
to
pull
those
exact
numbers
to
see
what's
been
expended
on
all
those
contracts.
L
And
and
that's
all
public,
so
I
was
able
to
actually
just
pull
it
online
and
that's
what
that's,
how
I
got
it
quickly?
We're
short
staffed
over
here
and
I
had
to
pull
up
my
old
legal
beagle,
and
you
know
try
to
do
some
of
it
myself
and
so
yeah
just
flipping
through,
but
right
now,
300
000
out
with
another
one
is:
is
there
a
reason
we
wouldn't
use
that
particular
firm?
R
We
put
this
out
for
an
RFP
for
multiple
vendors
so
that,
if
there's
other
conflicts
that
arise
from
the
vendors
that
receive
the
award
that
we're
able
to
you
know
flow
those
cases
as
they
need
to
be
so
that
they're,
expedited.
Okay.
L
And
my
final
question:
Mr
chairs
is
again
I'm
not
initially
attacking
this
one
it
just
like,
like
you
did
when
I
said
it's
been
a
million
dollars
aggregate
everybody
calls
and
says:
that's
that
doesn't
seem
right.
So
to
me
it
was
a
little
bit
and
maybe
those
numbers-
maybe
it
was
we
approved
it.
We
continue
to
prove
it.
Maybe
it's
not
spent,
but
that's
something.
L
This
committee
needs
to
know
and
then
I'd
like
to
know
how
it's
been
spent
and
I'd
like
to
know
if
it
is
for
disciplinary
actions,
if
we're
spending
a
million
dollars
in
taxpayers
or
whatever
that
amount.
Is
we
I'd
like
to
know
what
those
Bar
complaints
are,
what
that
action
is
and
how
we
can
nip
that
in
the
bud,
because
that's
not
something
I,
remember
being
there
happening.
L
Right
and
again,
I'm
not
not
against
this
particular
contract.
I
understand
sometimes
and
I
got
several
Federal
cases
right
now,
they're
always
a
little
more
time
intensive.
So
thank
you
for
your
time.
G
Okay,
thank
you.
Senator
Meredith,.
K
Just
a
question
for
Center
Yates
I
appreciate
your
line
of
thinking.
There
I
thought
the
same
myself
on
this
committee.
We
see
so
many
contracts
for
Legal
Services
by
various
cabinets.
I've
often
Warner
myself
is
an
opportunity
to
kind
of
gather
all
that
together
see
how
much
we're
actually
spending
in
total,
maybe
redirect
those
funds
to
the
AG's
office
after
all,
you're
representing
the
state
of
Kentucky,
maybe
there's
a
better
way
to
do
that.
K
I'd
be
curious
as
to
how
much
we're
spending
legal
services
for
every
cabinet
in
every
branch
of
government,
because
I
think
we
would
be
astonished
at
that.
I
know
it's
substantial.
If
there's
some
way,
we
could
do
that
or
possibly
we
need
a
task
force
Senator
that
just
looks
at
the
AG's
office,
a
relationship
to
our
cabinets
and
so
forth,
but
we
spend
a
lot
of
money
in
it's
scary.
Sometimes
so
it's.
L
Just
I
completely
agree:
I
haven't
been
there.
There
is
so
much
talent
that
has
been
there
for
decades
at
the
Attorney
General's
office,
institutional,
civil
and
criminal
chief
law
enforcement
officer
of
the
state,
obviously-
and
there's
so
many
individuals
and
part
of
me-
that's
one
of
the
reasons,
I'm
being
a
little
Stern
I'm,
very
seldom
pull
these,
and
when
I
do
I,
usually
don't
actually
go
to
committee.
L
I
usually
call
over
or
I
can
look
up
stuff
myself
take
an
hour
and
figure
it
out,
but
this
one
I
started
thinking
about
how
many
friends
that
I
have
over
there
that
are
working
for
a
very
modest
salary
and
then
I'm
watching
a
million
dollars
taxpayers
money
you've
been
spent
out
of
AG's
office,
hiring
these
firms.
So
I
really
appreciate.
If
you
can
give
me
an
answer
to
that.
K
K
E
E
Actually
Mr
cochair
I
I
want
to
offer
a
I
want
to
offer
a
motion
that
we
consider
deferring
this
particular
contract
until
we
have
an
opportunity
to
look
at
some
of
the
aggregate,
conflict,
management
and.
E
Expenditures,
it's
really
something
that
I
I
need
to
learn
more
about,
but
it
seems
that,
if
we're
having
some
issues
in
this
area,
one
of
the
things
that
helps
prompt
people
to
be
more
prompt
is
to
put
it's
to
shine
some
light,
or
at
least
put
pressure
in
that
particular
area.
My
concern
is
that
continuing
to
approve
to
approve
these
contracts
doesn't
get
us
that
information
anymore
quickly.
G
Okay,
Senator
Douglas
has
made
a
motion
for
deferment.
Do
I
have
a
second
second
by
representative.
Oh
just
thank
you.
So
much
I
will
get
that
before
the
days
away,
but
representative
Chester
Burton,
all
opposed
vote
are
all
in
favor
vote
a
all
post
vote,
no
clerk.
Please
call.
B
G
Next
item
on
the
pool
list
are,
with
the
Kentucky
Employers
Mutual
insurance
and
is
number
30
on
the
PSC
Amendment
Ivory
list
and
number
three
on
the
personal
service
contracts
for
ten
thousand
and
under
on
the
Goldenrod
list.
The
representatives
are
here:
please
come
forward
and
identify
yourself
for
the
record.
My.
F
K
The
personal
service
contract
for
under
10
000.-
this
is
close
to
ten
thousand
dollar
contract
and
keep
me
his
had.
The
mortal
sin
of
asking
for
a
retroactive
start
date.
Approval.
K
Appreciate
you
being
here
also
appreciate
you
later
I'm,
not
sure
how
many
of
our
committee
members
of
any
had
we're
privy
to
this,
but
the
explanation
giving
and
I
thought
was
interesting
that
you
said
as
part
of
kimi's
robust
procurement
process.
This
is
well
I,
wasn't
sure
what
that
adjective
meant,
but
it
says
strong,
healthy
and
vigorous.
Well,
if
you,
when
you
follow
it
with
that,
employee
obviously
failed
to
follow
procurement.
K
I'm,
not
sure.
That's
support
your
position
that
this
is
a
a
robust
procurement
process.
K
O
It
was,
they
are
small
maintenance
contracts
of
one
or
two
thousand
dollars.
Our
procurement
policy
does
not
require
an
RFP
in
this
situation,
so
so,
where.
O
In
Senator,
let
me
clarify
the
RFP
for
the
real
estate,
the
move,
the
real
estate.
There
was
an
RFP,
and
our
procurement
policy
is
there's
different
thresholds
depending
on
whether
or
not
it's
a
service
or
Supply.
In
this
situation,
under
ten
thousand
dollars
for
this
service,
it
would
not
fall
underneath
an
RFP
situation.
It
would
be
a
multiple
bid
situation
in
this
situation.
O
We
didn't
have
the
opportunity
and
if
I
could
go
a
little
bit
further,
please
we
were
moving
our
local
office
to
a
smaller
office
location.
Our
goal
was
to
reduce
costs
and
expense
to
Kimi.
O
As
part
of
that
process,
the
individual
in
charge
of
the
move
failed
to
anticipate
all
of
the
maintenance
requirements
that
would
be
involved
in
moving
from
one
office
location
to
another.
The
individual
was
informed
by
the
landlord
that
all
items
would
be
need
to
be
removed
from
that
old
space.
They
were
told
this
at
the
middle
of
May.
The
lease
ended
at
the
end
of
May,
so
we
were
in
because
of
poor
planning
and
a
mistake.
O
We
are
in
a
situation
where
we
either
violate
the
procurement
policy
and
and
had
the
landlord,
do
the
work
and
remove
the
cubicles
and
move
those
fire
suppressing
units,
and
then
we
have
to
retroactively
sit
in
this
chair
and
admit
our
mistake
and
emitter
error
and
file
this
retroactive.
It
was
a
mistake.
It's
been
addressed
with
the
individual
we've
learned
this
we've
taken
this
situation.
We
gave
our
annual
procurement
training
to
the
entire
company.
We
highlighted
this
area.
O
We
again
reiterate
our
zero
tolerance
for
procurement
mistakes
and
I
am
sitting
here.
There's
no
more
upset
about
me.
This
happening
Senator
Meredith
is
me
because
I'm
sitting
in
this
chair
for
someone
else's
mistake,
but
I'm
gonna,
I'm,
gonna
own
it
and
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
promise
you
that
it
will
not
happen
again.
K
Well,
I
certainly
take
you
to
worry,
but
you
know:
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
all
the
answers
and
questions
or
the
the
answers.
The
questions
about
this.
This
isn't
a
great
deal
of
money,
but
in
terms
of
a
breach
of
internal
control
procedures,
it
is
significant
and
if
we
make
a
mistake
on
Ten
Thousand
do
we
also
make
a
mistake
on
a
hundred
thousand
or
on
a
million.
You
know
I
note
that
this
was
for
a
period
of
July
1
2021
to
June
30
22..
O
It
was
discovered
in
the
middle
of
May
it
when,
when
we
were
told
you
have
to
do
these
things,
we
have
a
new
tenant
moving
in
on
June,
30th
or
June
1st
that
there
was
enough
time
to
follow
the
process,
follow
the
procedures
and
at
that
point
we
had
two
choices.
One
was
to
pay
additional
months
rents,
which
would
have
been
additional
twenty
to
thirty
thousand
dollars,
depending
on
how
long
the
process
took
or
violate
the.
K
K
O
O
We
wanted
to
make
sure
we
had
all
invoices
all
the
names
and
we
want
to
make
sure
we
had
all
the
details
before
we
came
before
the
committee
instead
of
coming
in.
As
you
know,
we
have
two
of
them
in
front
of
this.
We
need
to
make
sure
all
the
work
was
done
properly
paid
and
that
it
was
was
we
had
in
essence
Oliver
Ducks
enrolled
before
we
came
for
this
committee.
K
I
guess
that
leads
to
the
second
contract,
where
we're
looking
asking
to
increase
three
thousand
dollars
for
a
total
of
six
thousand.
O
Or
Senator
mayor
there
were,
there
were
four
different
vendors
that
did
work
three
of
them
completed
it
in
the
prior
budget
year.
This
one
this
event
and
this
work
occurred
afterwards.
I
think
it
occurred
in
I
want
to
say
August.
It
was
removal
of
the
fire
suppression
unit
and
as
a
result,
because
the
work
occurred
in
the
June
July
1st
2020
budget
cycle.
We
submitted
a
second
PSC.
K
K
D
O
K
G
B
G
Motion
carries
now
I
need
a
motion
for
item
number
three
on
the
personal
service
contract
for
ten
thousand
and
under
the
Goldenrod
list,
so
Move
Motion
by
co-chair
Meredith
to
have
sex
second
by
representative
Pollock,
all
in
favor
vote
I
all
possible
no
clerk.
Please
call
the
route.
B
G
T
K
I
do
co-chair
heart.
Thank
you.
Yeah
I
think
my
questions
are
the
same
for
both
the
contracts
I
requested
pool,
but
we'll
start
with
35.
This
is
for
a
hundred
and
seven
thousand
dollars
carry
out
the
activities
of
a
grant
that
the
KDE
has
received.
Federal
Grant
looks
like
it's
a
six-month
engagement
What's
the
total
amount
of
that
Grant
three
million
dollars.
Three.
S
This
is
a
reduction
in
this
that
you're.
This
is
before
you
because
we
reduce
the
amount,
because
this
was
for
a
full
year,
full
fiscal
year
and
the
person's
only
working
didn't
start
until
December.
So
the
amount
of
the
contract
now
is
only
57
987,
so
it's
being
reduced
by.
S
No,
the
amount
that's
on
what
what
I'm
looking
at
on
the
screen
is
what
the
full
year
would
have
been,
but
we
took
not
quite
a
little
more
than
a
half
a
year,
so
we
reduced
it
to
fifty
seven
thousand
so
and-
and
the
other
thing
you
should
understand
is
this-
is
a
four-year
Grant,
so
this
person
will
be
paid
that
so
the
107
is
actually
what
would
happen
in
the
third
second.
Third
and
fourth
year.
S
S
K
Well,
on
both
of
these
I
guess,
this
is
where
we
struggle
is,
you
know
we
get
very
limited
amount
of
information,
and
for
this
one
in
particular,
you
know
what
it
looks
like
for
six
month
period,
because
it's
what
our
says
that
you
get
107
000
we're
reaching
salaries
at
most
of
our
constitutional
officers,
don't
even
make
in
in
Kentucky
the.
K
K
But
the
other
information
we
didn't
have
is
the
amount
of
the
grant.
You
know,
if
you
get
a
grant
for
him,
200
000
you're
paying
out
a
hundred
and
seven
dollars
for
administration,
then
it
just
right
doesn't
jive.
So
that's
why
that's
the
question
so
appreciate
that
education
and
Mr
I
don't
have
any
questions
about
either
of
these
contracts.
The.
K
B
Z
G
G
K
Yes,
I
do
on
both
contracts
of
the
issues
so
the
same.
It's
not
really
issue
I
mean
maybe
it's
just
for
education,
but
each
are
for
four
million
dollars
correct,
so
we'll
expand
that
total
amount
on
each
of
these
projects.
I
Has
increased
the
amount
that
we
provide
to
families
that
have
been
impacted
by
the
tornado
to
build
a
new
home?
The
original
amount
was
forty
thousand
dollars
which
was
based
on
proposals.
We
received
from
these
non-profit
companies
about
the
cost
to
build
that
home.
I'm,
sorry
that
those
Figures
were
from
March
and
costs
have
simply
gone
up,
so
we're
increasing
that
amount
per
home
to
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
and
talking
with
our
non-profit
Builders,
there
is
definitely
still
a
need
for
homes.
So
we
are
hoping
to
expend
that
4
million
dollars.
K
I
I'll
be
on
I,
mean
I,
think,
there's
costs
for
HVAC
systems,
cost
for
the
supplies
to
build.
Hvac
seems
to
be
the
one
we
hear
about
the
most.
What
I
can
tell
you
is
when
we
originally
talked
to
the
companies
the
nonprofits
in
March.
They
gave
us
an
estimate
of
forty
thousand
dollars
per
home.
They
actually
have
given
us
a
little
higher
about
120
000
per
home
right
now.
We
think,
probably
with
some
other
opportunities
we
can,
we
can
get
that
to
a
hundred
thousand,
but
that
is
that
is
actually
the.
I
These
in
dollars
to
build
homes
in
Western
Kentucky-
these
are
two
of
those
contracts,
so
this
is
half
of
that
for
those
non-profit
Builders.
So,
yes,
they
have
not
been
expended
yet,
but
they're
earmarked
for
those
homes,
I.
K
I
Was
the
tornado
trying
to
see
what
the
needs
would
be?
Would
people
fix
their
own
homes
would
insurance
cover
that?
Would
there
be
other
funds
to
provide?
That
would
be
there?
There
be
other
Charities
helping
to
build
those
homes,
and
so
now
we
are
sitting
down
having
those
talks,
and
we
do
expect
to
be
to
extend
that.
G
Any
other
questions
motion
approve
both
contracts.
All
right,
we
have
a
motion
to
move
the
contracts
for
review
without
objection.
Motion
made
by
the
co-chair
Meredith
they'll
have
a
second
second
by
Senator
Douglas,
all
in
favor.
Please
vote
I
opposed
vote.
No
clerk.
Please
call
the
route.
G
G
Right,
thank
you
all
and
Senator
Meredith
has
a
question.
Thank.
K
You
for
being
here
this
morning
and
under
the
agreement
descriptions
just
provide
funds
for
lesbian,
gay,
bisexual
transgender,
LGBT,
competency,
training,
Consulting
on
LGBT
aging
issues,
just
educate
me
a
little
bit.
What
what
aging
issues
are
specific
to
this
population
that
doesn't
affect
all
of
our
population.
AA
Spending
twelve
thousand
five
hundred
dollars.
What
we
know
is
that
eight
percent
of
Kentucky's
population
has
been
identified
as
lgbtq,
and
we
know
that
we
are
one
of
the
fastest
aging
states
in
the
nation
and
we
want
to
ensure
inclusion
with
the
services
that
are
provided
in
individuals,
homes,
but.
AA
AA
That
data
and
those
specific
that
specific
information
I
can
share
with
you
that
this
is
a
training
that
has
not
been
delivered
before.
So
this
will
be
the
first
time,
so
we
can
definitely
within
this
training
there
is
a
pre
and
post
assessment
to
identify
where
needs
are
previously
and
then
compared
to
afterwards.
N
L
L
There
was
a
even
a
higher
sense
of
bigotry
and
just
outright
hate
that
they
had
experienced,
and
so
that
was
part
of
the
worry
about.
How
do
you
Outreach
and
there
was
there-
had
been
studies
and
I
while
we
would
be
ignorant
of
us
to
think
and
somehow
in
Kentucky
that
that
they
would
get
less
of
that
than
you
would
in
some
other
places.
L
They
put
a
study
together
and
published
to
do
that
because
they
they
were
kind
of
they're
kind
of
following
us,
but
they
were
trying
to
also
make
sure
that
those
Services
could
be
better
provided
in
Outreach,
because
we
know
it's
very,
very
real,
and
we
know
that,
whether
it's
that
we
have
a
lot
of
different
programs
and
things
that
are
available
for
people
that
in
the
event
they
don't
use
it,
they
go
to
waste,
but
also
especially
with
health
outcomes.
When
people
aren't
using
it
for
a
prolonged
period,
those
costs
get
bigger
and
bigger.
L
So
it
seemed
that
Not
only
was
it
the
right
thing,
but
it
also
saved
taxpayer
money
in
the
long
run,
especially
with
health
care
and
other
things
as
well,
and
so
to
me
it
has
been
done.
It's
been
done
throughout
the
nation
over
and
over
again
and
I'm,
always
about
saving
dollars.
Look
at
Best
Practices.
So
if
you
say
I
don't
want
to
reinvent
the
wheel.
L
So
if
you've,
if
there's
been
several
studies
that
have
done
all
over
including
Fayette
County
2012
I,
wouldn't
want
to
tell
you
say:
hey:
can
you
go
spend
a
couple
hundred
thousand
dollars
to
do
the
same
study
here
to
see
if
it
works?
If
we
know
it
works,
let's
implement
it.
Let's
move
forward
one
of
the
good
things
about
at
least
we
try
to
talk
about
about
being
so
far
behind
the
rest
of
Nations.
So
many
things
you
know
Kentucky
we're
slow
to
act
on
a
lot
of
things.
AA
L
AA
G
G
We
have
a
motion
for
to
defer
by
co-chair
Meredith,
to
have
a
second
second
Senator.
Second,
by
Senator
Douglas,
all
in
favor
vote.
I,
oh,
pose
vote,
no
clerk!
Please
call
the
Rope.
B
L
Just
when
we
defer
I
always
like
to
know
what
I'm
looking
for
coming
forward,
but
I
would
ask
you,
when
you
do
bring
back
to
share
with
this
committee,
I'm
Google
searching
things
and
trying
to
pull
back
up,
but
the
sage
of
the
Bluegrass
needs
assessment
survey
of
2015.,
as
well
as
some
of
the
Fayette
County
things
and
again,
I.
Don't
think
it's
bad
because
I
think
part
of
this
committee.
It's
educating
us
and
continue
to
do
that.
L
So
not
a
bad
thing
as
long
as
it's
nothing
that
has
to
be
done
right
away.
So
if
you
could
and
obviously
a
chair
whatever
he
specifically
asked
for
but
I
think
some
of
that
material
may
be
helpful.
Thank
you
and.
G
AA
K
Data
can
we
bring
to
you
we're
not
talking
about
the
the
quantity
of
people.
We
know
that
it's
eight
percent
population
I
can
now
then
but
you're
trying
to
train
people
to
address
problems.
What
are
those
problems
and
how
they've
been
identified?
Okay,
I,
don't
know
why
you
know
this
particular
singular
population
is
so
distinct
from
everybody
else.
K
AA
K
I'm
now
in
the
camera,
Chief
folks
work
in
we're
all
every
cabinet
is
screaming
for
dollars,
and
one
of
the
things
that
covet
has
shown
us
is
that
we
have
tremendous
weaknesses
throughout
our
social
network
and
we've
got
to
make
assurance
that
we're
spending
every
dollar
to
its
utmost
return
in
terms
of
benefit
to
the
Commonwealth.
So
that's
what
I'm?
Looking
for?
Yes,.
G
Please
take
a
moment
to
review
committee
members
review
item
number
11
on
the
agenda,
which
is
which
is
an
exemption
request
and
if
I
could,
is
there
a
motion
to
approve
the
same
motion
by
Senator
Meredith
to
have
a
second
second,
second,
by
Senator
Boswell,
all
in
favor
vote
I
all
opposed
vote,
no
clerk.
Please
call
the
route.
B
G
Before
German
I
want
to
announce,
the
February
2023
meeting
will
be
Tuesday
February,
the
14th.
It
will
be
upon
adjournment
of
both
Chambers,
so
motion
Dodger.
We
we
stand
adjourned.