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A
Have
enough
for
a
quorum
with
some
others
on
the
way,
so
we'll
go
ahead
and
get
going
I'm
sure
nobody
has
anything
to
do
on
a
Friday
in
July,
but
we'll
go
ahead
and
get
going
here
before
we
get
going.
I
do
want
to
bring
attention.
One
of
our
staff,
assistants,
Miss
Ashley,
Taylor
Ashley,
is
not
here.
Today.
Her
father
had
his
life
tragically
taken
on
July
9th
in
Frankfort.
We
have
Ashley
and
her
family
in
our
prayers,
and
if
we
will,
let's
hold
a
brief
moment
of
silence,.
C
D
A
Here,
thank
you
and
now
we'll
ask
for
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes
of
the
June.
15Th
meeting
got
a
motion
in
a
second
all
in
favor
aye.
Any
opposed
all
right
minutes
are
adopted
at
this
time.
I
think
we
have
our
first
presenters
already
sitting
at
the
table
before
we
get
going
on
that
I'm.
Just
gonna
give
a
brief
summary
of
kind
of
where
we
started
how
we
got
here
today.
A
So
this
report
marks
the
culmination
of
nine
months
of
work
by
this
committee
on
oversight
of
Juvenile
Justice
and
we've
got
the
presenters
at
the
table
and
if
you
will
please
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
hello.
E
I
am
William
Spears,
and
this
is
Jeremy
Skinner
all
right.
As
a
co-chair
said,
this
investigation
was
expanded
to
include
all
eight
juvenile
detention
centers,
which
typically
hold
you
for
waiting
trial
or
diversion.
This
presentation
discusses
the
study's
11
major
objectives.
E
We
had
one
main
objective:
to
identify
the
cause
of
instance
at
two
detention
centers.
We
had
10
additional
objectives
to
evaluate
different
areas
of
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
on
August
27
2022,
two
fires
were
started
at
the
Jefferson
detention
center
and
one
juvenile
escaped
and
was
found
in
a
nearby
neighborhood.
The
primary
issue
appeared
to
be
using
a
building
that
was
previously
a
Youth
Development
Center,
which
has
a
different
level
of
security.
E
After
the
Louisville
Metro
Government
defunded,
its
Detention
Center
in
2019,
the
justice
and
Public
Safety
cabinet
entered
into
an
agreement
to
detain
Louisville,
Youth
and
renovate
the
rice,
Audubon
Youth
Development
Center.
The
facility
needed
forty,
nine
thousand
dollars
worth
of
work
before
opening
and
an
additional
284
thousand
dollars
through
2022.
E
The
second
issue
is
a
breakdown
and
supervision
that
allowed
a
juvenile
to
smuggle
a
lighter
into
the
facility
based
on
internal
reports.
The
youth
was
not
properly
searched
during
intake
after
setting
a
fire
in
her
room.
She
was
unsupervised
and
started
a
second
fire
in
the
day
room.
While
staff
responded
a
second
youth
was
unsupervised
and
broke
a
window
before
scaling
a
fence.
There
also
appeared
to
be
Staffing
challenges
of
the
nine
staff
disciplined
for
the
event.
Three
were
social
workers
or
social
clinicians
who
typically
provide
counseling
or
mental
health
services.
E
Youth
workers
who
are
commonly
called
correctional
officers,
typically
supervise
Youth
and
provide
security
services
using
social
workers
instead
of
Youth
workers
points
to
an
acute
Staffing
challenge.
The
covet
pandemic
also
reduced
Staffing
in
May
2020.
There
were
14
vacancies
of
23
allocated
positions
by
May
2023.
There
were
19
vacancies,
we're
going
to
summarize
our
recommendations,
but
full
versions
can
be
found
in
the
summary
of
the
report
or
onto
Pages
indicated.
E
We
recommend
it
that
DJJ
continue
to
ensure
jrjdc
policies
and
procedures
are
updated.
So
the
new
management
team
can
address
Staffing
supervision
and
building
security
concerns
on
November
11
2022
a
riot
occurred
at
the
Adair
Regional
Juvenile
Detention
Center,
a
youth
worker
unlocked
the
cell
door
to
provide
toilet
paper
to
a
juvenile
who
assaulted
the
worker
and
inflicted
multiple
skull
fractures.
E
E
The
day
before
the
riot
five
juveniles
transferred
from
Jefferson
broke,
sprinkler
heads
which
fled
its
cells
units
and
the
building.
One
offender
pulled
a
sprinkler
head
because
he
was
agitated
after
being
restrained
earlier
by
the
assistant
superintendent,
the
assistant
superintendent
was
accused
of
using
excessive
force,
but
the
cabinet's
internal
investigation
could
not
substantiate
the
allegation.
E
The
investigation
did
not
include
an
audio
recording
where
the
youth
cries
and
screams
the
same
assistant
superintendent
attempted
to
turn
the
water
off,
but
inadvertently
turned
it
back
on
the
wet
fours
appeared
to
be
why
the
cell
was
open
to
provide
toilet
paper.
The
first
three
juveniles
were
part
of
a
transfer
from
Jefferson
on
November
9
2022.
E
E
The
booking
system
includes
areas
to
identify
gang
information.
Information
such
as
descriptions
of
tattoos
and
photographs,
but
it
does
not
have
required.
Fields
is
not
designed
to
generate
reports
and
is
used
inconsistently
if
information
had
been
entered
consistently,
staff
may
have
been
able
to
identify
the
security
risk.
Despite
the
time
frame,
there
were
three
recommendations
related
to
the
riot
first.
The
center
should
continue
to
work
with
law
enforcement
to
receive
training
related
to
gains
and
minimize
any
effects
of
gang
affiliations.
E
E
Our
second
objective
was
to
discuss
the
evolution
of
DJJ
since
the
federal
consent
decree
between
Kentucky
and
the
Department
of
Justice
in
1995..
The
decree
outlined
how
juvenile's
rights
were
disregarded
in
areas
to
be
addressed
in
response,
House
Bill
117
from
1996
created
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
House
Bill
144
was
passed
during
the
2002
regular
session
and
required
that
youth
and
residential
treatment
programs
have
access
to
an
ombudsman
to
report
issues
to
during
the
2023
regular
session.
E
Djj
funds
were
initially
expended
in
four
areas:
detention,
Services
program
management,
program
operations
and
support
services.
In
later
budgets,
detention
expansures
were
collapsed
into
program
operations,
which
includes
other
functions
like
day
treatment,
services
or
group
homes.
Individual
facilities
are
disaggregated
in
the
accounting
system
by
unit
codes.
E
During
the
2023
regular
session,
a
separate
office
of
detention
was
created
now
djj's
expenditures,
group,
pre
and
post
adjudication
facilities
together,
while
the
actual
structure
of
DJJ
separates
pre
and
post
adjudication
facilities,
we
have
a
single
appropriation
recommendation,
which
is
at
appropriation
allowments
be
changed
to
represent
the
new
structure
of
the
office
of
detention
rather
than
collapsing.
All
facilities
into
a
single
allotment,
creating
a
separate
appropriation
allotment
will
allow
reconciliation
of
appropriation
allotments
against
expenditures.
E
Our
third
objective
was
to
determine
the
effectiveness
of
djj's
oversight
through
internal
and
external
reviews,
detention
centers
were
audited
by
the
American
Correctional
Association
from
2018
to
2022
for
all
11
audits.
Centers
were
compliant
with
all
30
mandatory
standards
for
the
audits
conducted
from
2019
to
2022,
sits
detention.
Centers
were
not
compliant
with
11
percent
of
371
non-mandatory
standards.
E
Priya
audits
were
conducted
from
2018
to
2022.
No
detention
centers
failed
to
comply
with
the
43
standards,
but
corrective
action
plans
were
needed
in
multiple
instances.
The
plans
typically
consisted
of
training
for
staff
or
administrators
from
2018
to
2022
DJJ
conducted
36
quality
assurance
reviews
of
detention
centers.
The
reports
Summarize
each
monitoring
visit,
which
consists
of
observing
buildings
and
perimeters
interior
general
population
areas
and
staff
controlled
areas
such
as
control,
centers
record
and
personal
property
storage
and
kitchen
dining.
E
Two
areas
needed
correction.
First,
the
limited
scope
of
quality
assurance
reviews
prevents
identification
of
other
issues
that
could
disrupt
operations
by
Staffing
and
morale.
Second,
there
is
a
lack
of
automation
to
sort
extract
and
aggregate
data
to
make
a
real-time
corrective
action
and
policy
decisions.
E
According
to
DJJ
officials,
the
division
of
compliances
role
will
include
continuous
monitoring
and
unannounced
visits.
It
will
start
using
a
shared
drive
to
retain
audit
results.
We
have
two
recommendations
related
to
oversight.
The
first
covers
the
need
for
an
automated
system
to
track
and
analyze
non-compliance
data.
The
second
involves
a
new
division
of
compliance,
broadening
its
oversight
to
other
issues
that
could
disrupt
operations.
E
The
statute
requires
anyone
who
knows
or
has
caused
a
belief
that
a
child
is
dependent,
neglected
or
abused
reported
with
additional
requirements
for
those
who
work
with
juveniles
during
intake.
All
juveniles
are
screened
and
abuse
or
neglect
concerns
are
reported
to
the
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services
after
intake
iib,
investigates,
neglect
and
abuse
of
offenders
under
djj's
custody.
The
memorandum
of
understanding
between
dcbs
and
a
cabinet
mentions
dependency,
but
does
not
discuss
it
as
a
responsibility
of
iib.
E
However,
the
cabinet
believes
a
youth
under
djj's
custody
cannot
be
dependent,
krs-600.020
defines
dependency
as
a
child
other
than
abused
or
neglected,
who
is
under
improper
care.
The
cabinet's
definition
is
not
consistent
with
the
statute
or
the
Kentucky
court
of
Justice's
definition
of
any
child
other
than
an
abused
or
neglected
child
who
is
under
improper
care,
custody,
control
or
guardianship.
That
is
not
due
to
an
intentional
Act
of
the
parent
guardian
or
person
exercising
custodial
control.
E
Djj
relies
on
iib
for
referrals
to
the
Ombudsman
regulation
and
policy
sets
to
categories
of
special
incidents
that
are
investigated
by
iib.
The
Ombudsman
receives
reports
from
these
categories
and
may
investigate
which
could
cover
dependency.
If
an
investigation
by
iib
is
substantiated,
it
will
be
forwarded
to
chfs.
E
We
had
seven
recommendations
related
to
internal
reporting
investigations,
which
are
spread
over
two
slides.
One
was
for
clarifying
terms
to
make
responsibilities
clear.
Another
was
for
clarifying
responsibilities
of
the
ombudsman.
The
third
was
to
ensure
chfs
receives
reports.
The
fourth
was
to
develop
a
policy
related
to
interactions
between
the
Ombudsman
and
iib.
E
E
E
There
was
significant
variation
in
number
of
orders
that
does
not
reflect
differences
in
size
or
capacity
suggesting.
The
data
is
not
comprehensive
between
the
unusual
variation
and
the
paper.
Documentation,
analysis
for
patterns
or
areas
of
concern
was
hindered.
This
could
be
improved
for
electronic
documentation
from
the
data
provided.
86
percent
of
orders
were
completed
within
a
week,
while
51
percent
were
completed
within
a
day.
The
forms
included
a
location
to
indicate
a
priority
level
from
one
to
three,
but
only
nine
percent
of
forms
completed
the
priority
level.
E
F
Our
sixth
objective
was
to
determine
whether
intake
adequately
assesses
mental
health
needs
or
susceptibility
to
aggression
and
victimization.
Djj
uses
two
screeners
during
intake
the
Vespa
s,
measures
a
youth's
susceptibility
and
vulnerability
to
physical
and
sexual
aggression,
the
Maisie
screens
for
health
needs
and
emotional
distress
to
flag
use
for
further
assessment
or
intervention.
F
from
their
Vespa
screeners
physical
aggression
and
violence,
were
more
of
an
issue
than
sexually
aggressive,
behavior
and
victimization
about
a
fifth
to
a
third
abuse
were
vulnerable
to
physical
victimization
and
a
quarter
to
half
of
use
were
susceptible
to
Violent.
Aggressive
behavior
from
the
Maisie
screeners
youths
were
most
likely
to
display
angry
irritable
characteristics
with
44
percent
of
use
scoring
in
the
caution
or
warning
range.
F
F
F
The
secretary
of
the
justice
and
Public
Safety
cabinet
expressed
concern
that
DJJ
may
not
be
able
to
meet
the
new
requirements
because
private
hospitals
have
denied
treatment
in
the
past
to
Violent
offenders.
He
acknowledged
that
a
stand-alone
Hospital
could
be
an
option.
South
Carolina
has
encountered
the
same
issues
and
is
constructing
a
psychiatric
hospital
for
juveniles.
Its
legislature
set
aside
20
million
dollars
for
a
50
000
square
foot
facility
staff
had
two
recommendations
related
to
mental
health.
The
first
is
that
DJJ
should
continue
to
expand
contracts
to
meet
new
requirements
from
this
year's
legislation.
F
Our
seventh
objective
was
to
determine
whether
the
offender
booking
system
is
adequate
to
provide
intake
and
transfer
data.
There
have
been
piece
mail
updates
to
the
system,
but
DJJ
has
essentially
been
using
an
obsolete
System.
Since
the
2000s
the
system
was,
was
designed
to
provide
account
of
use
moving
in
and
out
of
facilities.
Similar
to
what
a
hotel
would
use,
it
was
not
designed
to
record
transfers
between
facilities.
This
results
in
transfers
being
treated
as
separate
events
and
potentially
duplicates
duplicates
Offender
Information.
F
It
also
does
not
allow
for
reporting
across
Fields
preventing
population
analyzes.
Despite
having
over
1500
data
points.
There
are
no
required
fields
in
the
system.
For
example,
the
set
the
system
includes
seven
tables
with
the
name
of
body
marks
and
two
additional
columns
related
to
tattoos
and
tattoo
descriptions,
but
as
noted,
those
fields
are
not
required.
F
F
F
However,
DJJ
officials
stated
that
they
have
not
been
involved
with
the
decision
to
modify
comms
during
the
procurement
process.
Djj
officials
compiled
a
wish
list
for
the
new
system,
but
it
doesn't
appear
to
have
been
used
when
Drafting
and
approving
the
scope
of
work
in
the
comms
contract.
The
wish
list
included
requests
to
track
incident
data,
which
is
required
by
the
1995
consent
degree
and
the
ability
to
use
multiple
picture
uploads,
which
would
help
in
identifying
gang
affiliation
staff,
had
two
recommendations
for
the
future
booking
system.
F
First
cabinet
officials
should
include
appropriate
DJJ
officials
in
discussions
regarding
the
scope
of
of
work
for
comms
and
continued
to
familiarize
themselves
with
the
wish
list.
Second,
cabinet
officials
should
include
required
fields
for
incident
and
Grievous
report
grievance
reporting
in
the
new
system,
as
well
as
multiple
picture,
uploads
and
other
required
data
fields
to
help
with
noting
gang
affiliation.
F
Djj
policy
identifies
a
consistent
process
for
documenting
incidents,
which
includes
the
use
of
the
isolation
incident
report,
form
to
document
and
Report
incidents.
The
form
is
not
sufficient
as
a
review
mechanism,
as
for
or
for
inputting
and
tracking
critical
information,
rather
than
relying
on
the
form
superintendents
use
supporting
documentation
such
as
photographs,
videos
or
statements.
F
The
first
problem
with
the
form
is
that
text
boxes
are
used
to
record
basic
information.
While
check
boxes
are
available
to
describe
events,
detention
staff
tend
to
use
text
boxes
to
either
overly
describe
or
enter
little
information.
The
result
is
a
wide
variety
and
quality
of
event,
descriptions
which
are
difficult
to
consistently
analyze.
F
The
second
issue
is
that
incidents
and
isolation
events
are
combined
in
question,
one
which
prevents
a
separate
accounting
of
event
types.
The
third
issue
is
that
a
passive,
open
and
ended
question
is
used
for
question
three
to
identify
whether
restraints
were
used
and
if
so,
what
type
were
used.
This
passive
question
type
could
lead
to
uncertainty.
If
no
other
information
is
provided
figures
now,
reports
show
potential.
F
Solutions
DJJ
does
not
use
an
automated
system
for
entering
and
tracking
incidents,
making
it
difficult
to
analyze
data
to
ensure
the
process
is
adequate
or
to
use
the
data
for
planning
or
other
purposes.
A
more
digitized
approach
could
use
questions
prompts
or
drop
down
menus
to
simplify
responses
and
make
the
form
more
useful
automating.
The
form
could
also
streamline
the
reporting
process,
reduce
errors
and
facilitate
analysis
of
incidents
and
restraints.
Over
time,
DJJ
officials
have
expressed
a
need
to
automate
information
related
to
incident
reports
and
grievances.
F
F
F
F
The
superintendent
monthly
reports
had
issues
that
made
them
difficult
to
analyze.
They
relied
heavily
on
text
boxes
in
six
categories,
combined
subjects
making
it
challenging
to
discern
whether
the
comment
applied
to
one
of
two
subjects,
for
example,
concerns
and
comments
are
in
the
same
field.
So
it's
not
always
clear
if
superintendents
are
concerned
about
a
topic
or
if
they
are
just
mentioning
it.
The
most
common
concerns
were
understaffing
with
direct
line
Staffing
mentioned
as
a
problem
in
about
a
quarter
of
reports
and
all
other
Staffing
being
mentioned
about
it
in
a
third
of
their
reports.
F
The
report
has
four
recommendations
related
to
grievance
and
exit
interviews
and
one
recommendation
related
to
superintendent
monthly
reports
for
the
staff
side.
Djj
should
ensure
all
grievances
are
reviewed,
at
least
once
monitor,
shift
changes
and
mandatory
overtime,
monitor,
Grievances
and
exit
interviews
that
detail
poor
interactions
between
staff
and
monitor
hazardous
employees
working
in
non-hazardous
employees
working
in
hazardous
roles.
Excuse
me
for
the
superintendent
side.
Djj
should
automate
monthly
reports
to
ensure
consistent
and
accurate
completion
and
revisit
the
form
to
reduce
the
use
of
text
boxes
and
eliminate
double
subject
fields.
F
From
2018
through
2022,
there
were
113
discipline
reports
involving
93
staff
with
16
staff
members
disciplined
multiple
times
of
the
113
disciplinary
actions.
75
percent
involved
a
youth
worker.
However,
an
additional
12
involved,
a
social
service
worker
and
one
example.
A
social
service
worker
was
terminated
for
not
providing
proper
supervision
of
the
youth
that
started
the
fire
at
The
Jefferson
Center.
F
This
is
typically
assigned
to
a
youth
worker
and
Prius
standards.
Only
consider
security
staff
and
Staffing
ratios
56
percent
of
the
incidents
had
an
iib
investigation,
Associated
indicating
that
it
involved
excessive
force
or
any
inappropriate
contact
or
communication
with
the
youth
of
the
64
iib
investigations,
34
were
for
excessive
force
or
a
similar
violation.
Forty
percent
of
the
actions
resulted
in
suspension.
22
percent
resulted
in
written
reprimands
and
14
percent
resulted
in
dismissals.
F
We
had
two
recommendations
related
to
disciplinary
actions.
The
first
is
the
DJJ
officials
should
ensure
that
employees
and
social
worker
or
similar
classifications
receive
training
for
additional
duties
they
may
perform.
The
second
is
that
officials
should
evaluate
policies
and
subjects
cited
in
discipline.
Reports
for
dis
for
additional
training.
F
To
summarize
incidents
at
detention,
center
staff
requested
reports
for
all
facilities
from
2018
through
2022..
All
incidents
were
added
analyzed
from
five
of
the
facilities,
while
incidents
from
three
of
the
facilities
had
to
be
sampled
due
to
issues
with
the
forms.
This
resulted
in
staff
reviewing
over
five
thousand
five
thousand
reports.
F
F
It
was
common
for
the
same
youth
to
appear
in
multiple
incidents.
For
example,
Fayette
had
about
1700
reports
for
only
536
use
incidents
commonly
resulted
in
isolation,
ranging
from
about
11
percent
of
incidents
at
Campbell
to
about
66
percent
at
Fayette.
Injuries
were
relatively
uncommon,
ranging
from
about
five
percent
at
Warren
to
21
percent.
At
Jefferson
detention
staff
could
select
multiple
event
check
boxes
for
the
incident.
The
most
commonly
selected
events
were
other
and
use
of
isolation,
though
physical
physical
restraints
were
also
common.
F
The
common
use
of
the
other
option,
combined
with
inconsistent
text
boxes,
makes
it
difficult
to
determine
what
incidents
looked
like.
Staff
also
reviewed
the
locations
for
violent
events
and
those
were
considered
to
be
assaults
on
staff
or
other
youth.
These
happened
in
these
typically
happened
in
youth
rooms
or
in
the
day
rooms
when
restraints
were
used.
A
keto
techniques
were
generally
the
most
common.
However,
handcuffs
were
used
more
often
in
McCracken.
E
Djj
agreed
or
partially
agreed
with
29
recommendations
and
a
matter
for
legislative
consideration.
It
disagreed
with
one
recommendation.
This
was
that
the
cabinet
officials
and
DJJ
should
make
available
to
chfs
to
May
investigate
incidents
which
appear
to
fall
under
dependency.
They
argued
that
all
investigative
findings
are
provided
to
chfs
and
they
disagreed
with
the
definition
of
dependency.
G
A
All
right,
thank
you
all
for
your
work
and
thank
you
for
your
presentation
today.
Do
we
have
any
questions
at
this
time?
A
Says
Prius
standard
15.313
requires
juvenile
facilities
to
maintain
a
minimum
ratio
of
one
security
staff,
member
to
8U,
stirring
waking
hours
and
1
to
16.
During
sleeping
hours,
however,
cabinet
officials
stated
they
could
not
generate
reports
that
show
ratios
of
use
to
security
staff,
so
are
were
those
ratios.
Were
they
never
found?
There's
just
no
way
to
to
get
that
information.
E
I
mean
from
the
data
we
had
available.
We
couldn't
calculate
that
they
have
a
lot
of
information.
It
gets
close
to
that
they
have
number
of
Staff.
They
know
how
many
people
are
hired.
They
know
how
many
people
work
in
places.
They
know
how
many
youths
are
there.
It's
just
the
issue
is
they
could
not
produce,
produce
a
report
that
automatically
calculated
that
and
that's
actually
fairly
complicated
to
estimate
because
staff
schedules
change
so
much.
You
need
to
know
how
many
staff
are
available
for
a
shift.
E
A
D
Yeah
kind
of
along
those
same
lines
and
forgive
me
I-
may
fumble
through
this
question
a
little
bit
a
lot
of
the
things
that
that
showed
up
in
in
your
report.
Almost
it
wasn't
worded
this
way,
but
it
almost
looked
like
you
were,
making
some
assumptions
and
presumptions
along
that
line.
D
E
I
understand
what
you're
saying
I
feel
like
it
felt
like
virtually
every
data
set
we
worked
with
had
some
issues
with
it
and
part
of
in
a
lot
of
cases.
They
have
the
information
incident
reports
are
probably
the
most
notorious
for
us
in
the
office,
because
the
information
is
there,
but
it's
not
in
a
system.
It's
hard
to
interpret,
there's
missing
information
on
every
so
often
reports.
It
feels
like
pretty
much
everything
we
looked
at.
There
was
a
lot
of
missing
information
I'm
trying
to
think.
If
there's
anything,
I
was
really
impressive.
E
Actually,
the
mental
health
screeners.
We
only
got
that
from
three
facilities,
but
those
tended
to
be
pretty
good.
Everything
else
felt
like
it
had
issues.
H
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
just
have
a
couple
questions.
If
that's
okay,
first
of
all,
you
mentioned
it's
on
slide
three
and
you
were
talking
about
the
causes
of
incidents
at
the
Jefferson
County
Detention
Center,
and
you
mentioned
that
in
in
May
of
2023
a
couple
months
ago,
there
were
19
vacancies
across
the
juvenile
detention
centers.
H
E
E
F
Staffing
Jefferson
and
Northern
Kentucky
being
the
two
primary
I
believe
so.
E
Have
not
seen
that
data
that
would
be
a
good
question
to
ask
tjj
but
other
than
what
Jeremy
has
said
about
just
a
difficult
Market.
That's
all.
H
H
E
The
person
who
research
that
is
not
here
today
as
far
as
I
know,
that's
the
only
one
I'm
aware
of
I
can't
100
confirm.
No
one
else
has
done
it.
I
did
a
little
bit
of
research
on
my
own
and
I
didn't
see
any
others.
H
Be
sure,
do
you
have
any
idea
what
data
points
or
what?
What
led
South
Carolina
to
make
that
decision.
E
H
E
I
G
I
want
to
go
back
to
the
to
the
19
vacancies,
which
indicated
most
are
in
Jefferson
County.
Last
month
we
talked
about
the
fact
that
pay
did
increase
up
to
fifty
thousand
dollars
for
juvenile
correction
workers,
but
it
was
also
mentioned
and
I,
like
your
opinion
on
this,
that
while
that
may
be
an
incentive
for
some
counties
when
you
get
into
your
more
urban
counties
such
as
Northern
Kentucky
or
Jefferson
County,
or
my
home
county
Fayette
County.
That
may
not
be
competitive
while
with
other
similar
positions.
E
I
mean
that
feels
like
it'd
be
accurate.
We
we've
talked
to
DJJ
many
times
about
this.
We
taught
the
staff
at
the
facilities
in
the
urban
areas
it's
more
difficult.
I
from
when
we
visited
Fayette
I
feel
like
it
didn't,
come
up
as
much
there.
Northern
Kentucky
and
Campbell
County.
They
heavily
emphasized
in
our
conversations
with
them
that
it's
difficult
to
hire
people
mainly
because
Cincinnati
is,
is
just
outside
of
town.
That
makes
for
a
bid.
Job
market,
which
will
often
pay
higher
amounts.
E
Jefferson
seems
to
have
the
same
issues
as
we've
discussed
before,
so
it
the
difficult
job
markets
and
pay
is
an
issue.
A
Thank
you,
Senator
Howe,.
D
E
We
normally
try
to
do
Trend,
analyzes
I.
There
were
enough
issues
with
the
data
that
we
didn't
feel
great
going
too
deep.
A
lot
of
the
challenge
was
just
getting
the
data
together
in
the
first
place,
we're
hoping
that
as
their
systems
improve
that
it
will
be
a
lot
easier
to
manage
this
data
and
that
DJJ
themselves
will
be
able
to
do
that
to
help
understand
how
these
facilities
are
operating
and
what's
happening
there
and
plan
for
that
in
the
future.
Okay,.
D
So
kind
of
a
specific
issue-
and
it's
just
one
of
many-
you
know
we're
going
to
have
to
make
some
decisions
on
Direction
and
everything
else,
and
if
we
could
see,
if
there
were
an
increase
of
incidents
relative
to
Manpower
available
and
to
the
experience
in
training
a
Manpower
available,
then
we
could
kind
of
get
into.
Is
it
the
just
the
lack
of
bodies
to
work
or
is
it
the
experience
level
and
get
a
little
more
granular
into
what
we're
wanting
to
figure
out,
but
I
didn't
know?
E
Haven't
got
that
deep,
I
will
say
some
of
the
forms
they
have
are
getting
at.
Some
of
those
issues,
like
the
instant
reports,
do
have
some
different
categories
for,
if
they're
violent
incidents
or
if
they're,
lower
tier
issues,
it's
it's
just
difficult
to
analyze.
At
this
point
Thank
you
thank
you
Mr,
chairman.
A
Thank
you,
representative,
Burke.
I
Thank
you
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
bringing
this
information
to
us.
My
question
relates
to
the
agency
response
to
finding
sheet
5
about
dependency
I'm,
trying
to
assess
out
how
we
can
help.
Particularly.
My
question
relates
to
the
notion
that
a
child
is
not
dependent
because
they're
in
the
custody
of
DJJ.
Now
when
a
child
goes
to
foster
care,
they
don't
become
not
dependent
anymore.
Their
family
is
still
in
court
for
dependency.
I
So
how
is
it
that
this
is
consistent
or
am
I
understanding
correctly,
that
it
is
truly
inconsistent
and
Beyond
trying
to
make
the
definitions
match?
Are
there
any
other
things
the
legislature
can
do
so?
Those
families
will
get
services
so
that
if
the
juvenile
is
released,
they
don't
come
right
back
into
the
system.
E
J
So,
as
far
as
the
dependency
issue,
what
we
are
saying
with
our
recommendation
one
there
does
seem
to
be
a
need
to
clarify
the
definition
of
dependency
in
statute,
because
it
is
inconsistent
with
people
that
work
with
it
on
the
regular,
our
understanding
as
we
are
interpreting
it,
and
what
we
think
is
consistent
with
600
02020
is
that
a
child
can
be
dependent
in
DJJ
custody
due
to
the
language
of
it,
saying
not
due
to
an
intentional
Act
of
the
parent
guardian
or
person
exercising
custodial
control
or
supervision
of
the
child.
J
Because
it's
saying
that
intentional
act,
it
seems
to
be
Beyond
just
a
custody
issue.
It
seems
to
be
an
actual
incident
that
occurs.
I
J
It's
a
matter
of
matter
for
legislative
consideration
that
there
maybe
should
be
a
clarification
there,
seeing
as
there
are
different
takes
on
it
from
people
that
are
familiar
with
it.
You
know
it's
not
just
a
Layman.
It's
people,
obviously
there's
some
misunderstanding
there
or
lack
of
clarity
there,
even
within
DJJ
itself,
so
I.
K
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
and
I
want
to
thank
all
the
staff
members
that
worked
on
this
report,
a
massive
undertaking
and
and
from
from
your
comments,
I
think,
obviously
very
frustrating
too
and
I
I.
K
Don't
know
that
I
can
say
that
I'm
surprised
on
the
the
information
you
know
having
trouble,
compiling
and
and
extrapolating
anything
from
it
from
from
conversations
that
I've
had
even
with
the
secretary
and
I
think
it's
very
clear
that
there
were
issues
there
and
I'm
sure
there
are
issues
that
still
remain,
that
that
they're
working
on,
but
help
help
me
understand
a
little
bit.
K
If,
if
you
can
elaborate,
some
on
the
information
that
was
missing
is
it
is,
it
did.
Did
you
all?
Are
you
concerned
about
the
the
sheets
that
are
missing
or
were
most
of
them
critical
parts
of
reports
or
any
pattern
that
that
we
should
address
or
any?
Is
it
consistent
throughout
the
years?
Did
the
reporting
process
get
any
better?
The
the
information
that
you
receive?
The
reports
that
you
received.
E
I
wouldn't
say:
there's
a
strict
pattern
in
it
from
what
you're
saying
it
makes
me
think
most
about
the
incident
reports
which
to
me
feel
like
the
most
important
part
of
this,
because
you're
describing
what
is
going
on
in
the
facility
and
how
they're
reacting
to
it
and
the
issues
they're.
Seeing
there
it's
there's
just
no
patterns
to
what
is
missing
it.
It
is
a
little
concerning
because
that
is
the
best
way
for
superintendents
to
understand
what
is
going
on.
E
A
lot
of
this
detail
seems
like
it
gets
put
into
The
Narrative
of
incident
descriptions,
sometimes
there's
just
not
a
lot
in
there,
which
is
its
own
problem,
because,
if
they're
relying
on
that
to
understand,
what's
going
on,
you
just
don't
know,
what's
happening.
So
if
something
went
wrong
and
there's
a
little
detail,
the
superintendents
are
missing
out
on
that
and
then
sometimes
you
have
a
ton
of
information
which
just
makes
it
harder
to
parse
through
and
it
takes
time
and
these
people
are
already
busy.
E
They
have
tons
to
do
already
so
anytime,
it's
harder
to
do
the
process,
it's
it's
worse
for
them.
I
don't
know
I
feel,
like
generally,
we
just
had
a
concern.
Anytime.
Information
was
missing
on
instant
reports
because
it's
it's
all
useful,
there's
some
ways
to
use
all
of
it,
but
just
to
cap
it
there's
no
real
pattern
to
it,
but
it
is
a
little
concerning
that
whenever
it's
missing
you.
K
Wanna
did
did
you
all
you
know.
We
received
a
lot
of
complaints
back
during
the
working
group
during
those
those
weeks
about
reports
not
being
forwarded
up
the
chain
of
command.
Were
the
reports
that
you
all
reviewed,
properly
signed
off
on
through
the
entire
chain
of
command?
Did
you
find
many
that
stopped
at
the
facility
level
and
didn't
make
it
any
further
than
that.
E
That's
a
difficult
question
because
part
of
that
we
didn't
look
at
in
terms
of
signing
it
off.
We
didn't
document
that,
in
a
data
analysis
from
the
ones
I
looked
at,
they
pretty
consistently
were
signed
by
at
least
one
supervisor.
E
K
Okay
and
one
one
final
comment
on
the
inpatient:
treatment
with
mental
health
and
juveniles
and
and
I
know.
This
is
something
that
secretary
friedlander
and
his
staff
have
been
working
on
and
I.
My
and
we've
had
the
conversation
more
than
once
about
the
need
for
Kentucky
to
build
our
own
facility.
K
If
there
are
not
going
to
be
any
other
options,
that's
something
that
we're
going
to
have
to
consider,
but
I
do
know
that
the
cabinet
is
working
with
a
particular
Hospital,
an
institution
at
this
point
in
hopes
that
they
will
be
developing
a
facility-
and
you
know
I,
guess
that
that
part
of
all
of
this
is
is
what's
been,
the
most
shocking
and
the
most
disappointing,
but
it
but
it
reaches
Beyond
DJJ.
It
reaches
into
the
cabinet
of
Health
and
Family
Services
recent
reports
of
kids.
K
You
know
living
sleeping
in
offices
which
has
been
going
on
for
for
a
while
and
then
throughout
this
process.
You
know
we
heard
of
kids
that
are
obviously
mentally
ill
confined
to
cells,
simply
because
there
was
no
place
else
to
take
them,
and
out
of
all
of
this
that
we've
looked
at
the
one
thing
that
I
feel
like
has
to
be
the
priority
in
all
of
this
is,
is
to
deal
with
those
kids
and
make
sure
that
that
stops
happening
in
the
in
our
Commonwealth
and
I
I.
K
Think
that's
something
we
all
agree
on
that,
but
it's
not
just
as
simple
as
saying
that
we've
got
to
to
find
the
facility.
If
that
doesn't
happen
quickly,
we
are
really
going
to
have
to
take
a
close
look
at
during
the
session
and
to
determine,
if
it's
time
to
budget
money
to
to
create
a
facility,
you
know
to
be
operated
by
the
Commonwealth.
A
You
one
quick
question:
do
we
have
full
reports
of
the
incidents
that
happened,
internal
investigations
from
Jefferson
and
from
Adair?
We
have
full
reports
on
those.
Have
we
been
able
to
view
those.
E
We
do
have
those
Jeremy
and
I
have
both
reviewed
those
okay.
So
thank.
A
Thank
you
all
your
all's
reaction
to
the
the
report
we
just
went
over
today.
I
know
that
they
had
their
findings.
They
made
recommendations,
anything
surprising
anything.
What
just
your
all's
reactions
from
that
report
today.
C
I
think
if
I
may
and
again,
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
to
be
with
you
all
and
to
discuss
these
important
matters
again.
Today
we
have
had
a
good
collaborative
relationship
with
committee
staff
and
I
think
throughout
this
process
of
putting
the
report
together,
we've
been
able
to
provide
information
along
the
way
that
I
believe
has
informed
the
report.
We
provided
written
responses
to
all
aspects
of
the
report.
I
don't
propose
to
go
over
all
of
the
pages
and
pages
of
that
today.
C
I
know
that
you
all
were
good
enough
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
to
set
through
a
long
and
I
hope,
comprehensive
discussion
of
all
of
the
work
and
there's
been
an
enormous
amount
of
work.
That's
happened
over
the
last
year
or
so
to
address
these
issues,
and
so
I
think
you're
you're
up
to
date
on
that
I.
Don't
propose
to
encumber
your
afternoon
with
repeating
all
that
material
that
we
provided
a
couple
of
weeks
ago.
C
C
It
is
not
exclusively
money,
but
it
is
primarily
money
if
you're
not
paying
a
market
wage
you're
not
going
to
be
able
to
hire
people,
and
thanks
to
the
governor's
leadership
and
the
general
assemblies
leadership,
where
we're
doing
a
lot
better
with
that
today,
because
we've
seen
significant
increases
in
the
compensation
for
these
essential
jobs.
This
is
not
just
a
juvenile
justice
issue.
We
have
the
same
issue
in
the
Department
of
Corrections.
It's
not
just
the
Justice
cabinet
issue.
C
When,
when
I
was
the
Secretary
of
public
protection
cabinet,
we
had
a
terrible
time
hiring
electrical
inspectors,
Plumbing
inspectors,
Bank
examiners,
all
of
those
sorts
of
important
positions,
because
we
simply
did
not.
We
were
were
not
able
to
offer
a
compensation
package
that
was
competitive
in
the
market
and,
if
you're
not
competitive
in
the
market,
you're
going
to
fail
in
maintaining
an
adequate
Workforce,
but
because
I
we're
moving
forward
in
that
and
we're
making
improvements
in
terms
of
Jefferson
County.
In
particular.
C
The
information
from
our
HR
staff
is
that
at
the
the
first
of
the
year
we
had
17
vacancies
in
Jefferson
County
right.
At
the
end
of
this
fiscal
year,
we
had
11
vacancies
in
Jefferson
County,
so
we've
made
significant
Improvement.
Now
those
numbers
have
gone
up,
there's
a
little
dislocation
in
the
data
because
part
of
I
think
Senate
Bill
162,
which
we
appreciated
very
much.
The
legislation
created
a
140,
some
odd
new
positions
for
the
detention
program
which
we
spread
across
the
footprint
now
because
of
the
way
the
laws
take
effect.
C
Campbell
County
and
Northern
Kentucky
and
Jefferson
County
have
not
improved
as
much
as
we
would
like
to
see,
and
that's
just
because
of
the
nature
of
of
those
labor
markets,
and
we
expect
that's,
not
that's
not
going
to
change
because
of
the
nature
of
the
labor
market.
So
I
did
before
I
forgot
about
it.
C
I
wanted
to
add
to
the
discussion
that
you
all
had
about
that
with
the
committee
staff,
because
creating
these
new
positions
kind
of
excuse
the
data,
because
we've
only
now
just
hiring
to
to
fill
those
and
again
I
want
to
thank
all
of
you
all
for
creating
those
new
positions.
Those
will
be
a
great
move
forward
in
in
improving
these
facilities.
C
This
has
been
a
long
process.
As
your
staff
noted,
your
staff
has
worked
very
hard
and
so
I
have
hours.
I
think
your
staff
would
agree
that
we
have
had
a
good
Cooperative
collaborative
relationship.
C
Mr
chairman,
we
met
back
in
January
early
in
this
process
and
had
an
interesting
meeting
and
I.
Think
I
think
we
committed
to
you
that
we
would
cooperate
with
this
inquiry
and.
E
C
I
think
we
have
proven
that
to
be
the
case.
We've
given
your
staff
access,
I,
think
just
to
about
anybody
that
they
wanted
to
talk
to
on
our
staff.
I
know,
they've
interviewed,
I,
believe
the
superintendents
of
all
of
our
detention
facilities.
They've
interviewed
the
a
lot
of
the
senior
leadership
at
DJJ
and
at
the
Justice
cabinet.
They've
interviewed
the
Ombudsman
internal
investigations
Branch
folks.
They
were
very
thorough
in
their
work
and
we
did
our
best
to
cooperate
with
them
and
make
the
work
as
easy
as
we
could
for
them.
C
We
provided
them.
I'm
told
with
31
million
kilobytes
of
written
material
and
I.
Remember
I
used
to
litigate
cases
that
tended
to
be
quite
complicated
from
a
document
standpoint
I
had
some
cases
where
we
had
terabytes
of
information.
We
were
trading
back
and
forth
and
I
I.
Remember
correctly.
The
rule
of
thumb
was:
is
that
generally
a
kilobyte
will
hold
about
a
half
a
page
of
written
material.
C
So
if
we
provided
31
million
kilobytes
of
written
material,
you
can
see
how
much
we
provided
and
how
much
your
staff
has
has
had
to
go
through.
So
there's
been
a
lot
of
work
involved
in
that
on
on
both
sides.
I
think
we've
opened
the
books,
we've
been
transparent,
we've
made
no
effort
to
to
hide
anything
and
it's
been
a
good
process
because
of
that
and
I
think
it's
a
productive
report
because
of
the
work
of
your
staff
and
because
of
the
work
of
mine,
has
your
staff
indicated
most
of
the
recommendations
we
agree
with.
C
There
are
very
few
things
in
the
report
that
we
don't
agree
with
the
few
items
that
where
we
might
have
an
issue,
at
least
in
my
view,
are
not
core
fundamental
items:
they're,
not
where,
where
you
know
you
say
daylight
and
we
say
dark,
we
disagree
on
a
legal
definition.
For
example.
C
We
are
in
an
adverse
situation
with
with
the
conclusions
of
this
report.
In
fact,
many
of
the
items
that
are
the
subjects
of
the
recommendations
are
things
that
we're
already
doing,
some
of
which
we
we
may
have
completed,
but
you
know
some
of
these
things
as
I
as
I
read
the
report
and
as
I
hear
it
presented,
there
are
some
common
themes.
C
First
about
the
problems
with
the
DJJ
data
system
from
me,
probably
back
in
October
or
November,
because
and
as
I've
said
before
in
in
previous
appearances
as
we
began
to
get
into
some
of
these
issues,
I
started
to
ask
for
historical
data.
I
wanted
to
see
what
these
populations
looked
like
five
years
ago
and
ten
years
ago,
and
our
system
was
inadequate
to
provide
what
I
would
have
considered
basic
information
needed
to
manage
these
facilities
and,
as
we
got
deeper
into
that,
I've
learned
and
I.
C
Think
it's
in
the
report
that
the
the
data
system
at
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
has
not
had
a
major
overhaul
for
between
10
and
15
years.
And
of
course,
we
I
I
think
we
would
all
agree
that
that's
that's
just
not
something
that
that
we
can
live
with,
because
you
have
to
have
good
data
current
data.
You.
C
Historical
data
to
be
able
to
make
proper
management
decisions
and
I
think
the
absence
of
that
has
hampered
DJJ
management,
not
just
in
the
last
year
in
the
last
three
years,
but
I
suspect
in
the
last
five
years
and
10
years,
from
being
able
to
make
as
good
a
decisions
as
as
could
have
been
made.
So
all
of
those
recommendations
that
refer
to
to
issues
with
data,
we
wholeheartedly
agree
with
that
and
we're
working
on
it
as
hard
as
we
can
to
implement
a
new
system
A
system.
C
That
is
a
modified
version
of
what's
used
by
the
Department
of
Corrections
with
great
success.
You
know
they're
using
their
system
to
keep
up
with
over
twenty
thousand
people,
so
we
think
we
ought
to
be
able
to
use
it
to
keep
up
with
a
little
over
a
thousand
people
in
the
Juvenile
Justice
System.
We
think
it
also
is
the
fastest
way
to
get
to
an
improved
data
system,
because
it's
a
vendor
that
we
already
work
with
every
day
and
it's
in
it's
a
A
system
that
we
understand,
as
is
noted
in
our
response.
C
Actually,
the
department
started
to
implement
the
com
system.
I
think
five
or
six
years
ago
and
I
think
expended
considerable
resources
and
effort
to
do
that
and
for
reasons
that
are
unknown
to
me.
That
effort
was
abandoned
and
unfortunately
was
replaced
with
nothing
and
but
at
any
rate,
a
good
portion
of
this
report.
C
I
think
deals
one
way
or
another
with
these
data
problems
and
we're
well
on
the
way
to
fixing
that
the
Staffing
problem
we've
talked
about
every
time
that
I've
had
a
chance
to
to
visit
with,
with
with
you
good
folks,
either
in
a
setting
like
this
or
privately
and
again,
the
general
assembly
and
the
governor
have
been
able
to
work
together.
The
way
things
are
supposed
to
work
to
to
make
great
improvements
in
the
compensation
for
these
critical
jobs
and
it's
having
an
effect
Staffing
is
improving.
C
It
will
take
time
to
get
where
we
need
to
be
on
that
and
even
when
we
get
our
numbers
up,
we're
still,
you
know.
They're
gonna
we're
gonna
have
a
lot
a
lack
of
experience,
because
we've
had
so
much
turnover
we're
hiring
people
now,
but
obviously
they're
all
new
people,
so
we're
on
the
we're
on
the
road,
but
we're
not
where
we
need
to
be
on
that.
There
was
some
discussion
about
these
mental
health
issues
and
and
Senator
Carroll
and
I
had
discussions
about
that.
C
It's
it's
along
with
secretary
friedlander
during
the
session
again
I,
don't
know
if
it
the.
If
the
first
time
you
heard
about
it
was
from
me
but
I
I,
remember
back
October
and
November
appearing
before
various
legislative
groups
and
talking
about
what
a
desperate
need
there
was
to
to
solve
that
problem
and
I.
Think
one
thing
that
that
I
believe
everybody
ought
to
be
able
to
agree
on
everybody
from
the
executive
branch
to
all
of
you,
good
folks
to
every
judge
in
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky.
C
We
all
ought
to
be
able
to
agree
that
no
child
should
ever
ever
be
put
in
a
Detention
Facility.
Simply
because
there's
no
place
else
to
put
them,
but
as
we
sit
here
today,
that's
still
going
on,
so
we
and-
and
let
me
say
that
is
not.
That
is
not
a
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
issue
because
we
take
who
is
sent
to
us,
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice.
C
If,
if
it,
if
a
police
officer
shows
up
with
a
child
in
a
detention
order
signed
by
a
judge,
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
has
no
choice
but
to
take
them
and
house
them
and
do
the
best
they
can
with
them
whether
they
have
terrible
physical
disabilities
or
medical
conditions
or
a
severe
mental
illness.
C
So
that's
that's
something
again.
I
know
we
can
all
agree.
No
child
should
ever
be
detained
because
that's
the
last
resort,
there's
no
place
else
to
put
them,
and
so
we're
committed
and
I
know
you
are
too
I
know
the
governor
is
I,
know
we're
going
to
work
together
to
to
get
that
to
get
that
issue
resolved,
but
it
will
take
some
work
and
we've
we've
appreciate
the
discussion
about
what
they're
doing
in
South
Carolina
I'll
be
right,
surprised
if
they
can
build
that
hospital
for
20
million
dollars,
we'll
see
about
that.
C
We
certainly
want
to
work
with
the
legislature
there's
nobody
that
wants
to
solve
that
problem
more
than
we
do,
because
we
know
it's
not
right
for
the
kids,
but
we
also
know
it's
not
right
for
our
staff,
because
it
just
is
an
unreasonable
expectation
on
Juvenile
Justice
detention
centers
to
think
that
they
can
adequately
care
for
a
severely
mentally
ill
child.
That
will
never
be
the
case.
It
will
never
happen,
so
we
want
to
solve
that.
C
But
at
the
same
time,
we
approach
this
with
some
humility,
because
in
in
the
Justice
cabinet
and
and
in
particularly
in
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice,
we're
not
the
experts
on
how
you
properly
treat
severely
mentally
ill
youth.
You
know
there
are
other
people
in
the
Commonwealth
and
in
the
government
that
know
a
lot
more
about
appropriate
treatment
for
those
sort
of
issues
than
we
do.
So.
C
That's
that's
why
you
know
I'm
not
anxious
to
jump
out
and
say
this
is
exactly
what
we
need
to
do,
because
we
that's
not
we're
not
the
repository
of
the
greatest
expertise
there,
but
we
certainly
want
to
work
with
everyone
and
with
those
that
do
have
the
expertise
to
to
solve
that
particular
problem.
C
Again,
I
don't
propose
to
go
through
every
one
of
these
recommendations.
You
have
our
our
written
response,
the
greatest
majority
of
them.
We
agree
with.
As
we
reported
to
you
a
couple
of
weeks
ago.
We
have
done
an
enormous
amount
of
work.
C
We're
not
where
we
need
to
be
there's
a
ton
of
work
that
remains
to
be
done.
We
will
need
more
legislative
changes.
We
will
need
more
resources
and-
and
I
would
just
say
that
this
you
know
we're
what
we
we
are
working
very
hard
to
build
a
performance
culture,
a
performance
organization,
an
organization
that
has
a
culture
of
Excellence.
But
that's
not
a
destination.
That's
a
journey!
You
don't
ever
get
to
the
point
where
you
say
well,
we're
we're
right
where
we
want
to
be.
C
We
fix
all
these
problems
the
day
you
do
that
you're
going
backwards,
in
my
opinion,
so
I
think
we're
on
the
road,
and
we
appreciate
the
fact
that
you're
on
the
road
with
us,
but
we
we
have
a
long
way
to
go.
I
think
this
inquiry
that
your
committee
and
your
staff
has
conducted
has
been
beneficial.
It's
been
thorough
again,
I
I
compliment
your
staff
on
the
work
that
they've
done
in
the
way
that
they
have
approached
it
we'll
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
Commissioner,
you
have
any
anything
you
want
to
say.
A
Thank
you
secretary.
Let
me
ask,
let
me
go
back
to
the
Adair
incident.
J
A
The
I
believe
there
was
eight
youth
that
were
in
the
Jefferson
County
facility,
a
fire
alarm
failed
or
a
test
failed,
and
they
had
to
abruptly
be
moved
to
Adair.
Is
that
correct,
yeah.
C
If
you,
if
you'll
permit
me
I'll
I,
can
I
was
personally
involved
in
that
and
I
can
give
you
a
little
bit
of
an
explanation
on
that.
We
saw
in
the
reports
I
think
from
the
August
incident
in
in
Jefferson
County
sort
of
buried
in
that
report
was
some
issue
about
some
of
the
the
fire
suppression
mechanisms
for
one
of
a
better
word.
I.
C
Day
very
well,
commissioner
Reed
was
in
my
office
and
and
my
chief
of
staff
was
in
my
office,
and
we
were
talking
about
that.
We
got
our
our
primary
facilities.
Person
on
the
phone.
We
had
him
go
to
Jefferson
County
immediately.
I
think
he
was
maybe
in
Eastern
Kentucky
that
day
to
test
those
fire
mechanisms.
He
reported
that
they
were
not
working
as
they
were
designed
to
work
and
I.
Remember,
I
asked
him
I
said
well
in
your
opinion,
with
this
defect,
is
it
safe
to
keep
juveniles
in
this
facility?
C
I
asked
him
a
direct
question.
He
gave
a
direct
answer
and
the
answer
was
no
and
I
that
was
I
wish.
That
had
not
been
the
answer,
because
that
really
put
us
in
a
predicament
with
that
answer.
I,
don't
think
we
had
any
choice
but
to
move
those-
those
kids
out
of
that
facility,
but
we
knew
that
the
other
facilities
were
going
to
be
bearing
a
a
big
burden
and
a
lot
of
that
burden
fell
on
Adair
County.
So.
A
What
this
report
lays
out
and
that
three
members
of
of
the
same
gang
basically
were
allowed
in
the
same
pot,
and
it
was
from
those
three
members
one
one
of
the
members
had
two
incidents
I
believe
pulling
on
the
sprinklers,
causing
the
flooding
on
November
the
10th
and
then
on
November
11th
I,
guess
it
was
the
same
person
that
got
the
toilet
paper,
assaulted
the
the
worker
there
and
then
let
out
all
the
other,
all
the
other
patients
I
guess:
I'll
call
them
if
that
were
to
happen
today,
if
that
same,
for
whatever
reason,
another
facility
has
an
issue
and
they
need
to
be
moved
that
intake
process
where
members
of
the
same
gang
can
be
put
together.
C
I
think
we
we
have
certainly
made
improvements
there
and
one
of
the
things
we've
done.
Mr
chairman-
and
we
did
this
some
time
ago-
is
we
brought
in
our
department
of
corrections,
people,
because
the
Department
of
Corrections
people,
as
you
might
imagine,
have
a
very
sophisticated
program
for
identifying
members
of
security
threat
groups,
which
could
I
mean
we
can
call
them
gangs,
but
it
can
be,
it
could
be
anything
they're.
C
When
they're
together,
so
so,
we're
we're
I,
think
better
and
we'll
continue
to
get
better
at
identifying
early
on
the
problem
and
which
will
allow
us
to
to
mitigate
the
problem
to
a
certain
extent.
But
with
it's
the
nature
of
these
facilities.
You're
never
going
to
be
able
to
completely
separate
these
these
kids
in
that
way,
because
the
numbers
won't
allow
it.
C
A
A
C
C
Me
let
me
just
because
I'm
I'm
a
little
perturbed
by
that,
because
it's
what
was
said
there's
not
completely
accurate.
As
I
said
it
was
clear
to
me.
I
know
it
was
clear
to
the
commissioner
and
it
was
clear
to
others
that
our
data
system
simply
was
not
operable
in
in
any
meaningful
sense
of
the
word
for
what
a
management
team
would
need
after
we
got
into
this,
and
so
we
started
talking
about
you
know
we
gotta,
we
gotta
find
something
to.
We
got
to
find
a
way
to
upgrade
this
and
I.
C
Don't
remember
exactly
how
it
came
about,
but
there
was
some
mention
that
well,
the
Department
of
Corrections
uses
this
Kentucky
offender
management
system,
apparently
successfully
to
manage
a
population
of
over
twenty
thousand
and
I.
Remember
saying
to
my
staff,
when
we
start
in
in
at
the
cabinet,
will
let's
get
up
a
meeting
with
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice,
and
we
and
and
our
attitude
I,
remember
saying
this:
we're
going
to
make
comms
available
to
them
and
we're
going
to
help
them
get
it?
If
that's
what
they
want.
C
If
they
don't
want
it,
we're
not
going
to
make
them
get
it,
but
we
are
going
to
say
we're
going
to
find
some
way
to
have
a
better
operation
here,
then
we
got
up
a
meeting
that
the
commissioner
and
a
lot
of
her
staff
attended
and
I
know.
I
know
for
a
fact,
I
think
I
know
the
person
who
is
the
primary
manager
of
the
I.T
Folks
at
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
attended.
That
meeting
did
she
not
and
that's
the
meeting
at
which
we
decided
to
explore
the
calm
system.
C
A
Very
good
we'll
go
to
Senator
Rocky
Adams.
J
M
C
No
ma'am
we're
not
going
to
accept
that,
and
nor
have
we-
and
let
me
just
take
you
back
to
two
or
three
years
ago,
in
Jefferson
County
and
all
of
these
other
places.
A
Frontline
detention
workers
starting
salary
was
about
thirty
thousand
dollars
a
year,
would
be
a
surprise
to
know
one
that
you
could
not
hire
an
adequate
Workforce
for
thirty
thousand
dollars
a
year.
C
So
the
first
thing
that
happened
I
think
in
December
of
I
want
to
say:
21
I
get
my
years
mixed
up,
but
the
the
governor
worked
with
us
and
approved
a
10
salary
increase
for
all
the
Corrections
Officers
across
the
system.
We
didn't
see
much
movement
out
of
that.
Then
the
general
assembly
enacted
very
generous
races
across
the
board
for
state
employees
of
eight
percent.
As
all
of
you
all
remember,
we
didn't
see
a
lot
of
movement
out
of
that
the
following
October,
because
we
we
were
not
accepting
where
we
were.
C
We
got
together
and
we
got
some
really
smart,
HR
and
budget
people
and
we
figured
out
ways
to
reprogram
some
dollars
and
we
provided
some
additional
money
and
we
got
the
starting
pay
up
to
somewhere
in
the
low
40s.
Probably,
and
we
started
to
see
at
least
improvements
in
retention
and
a
little
more
interest
in
some
of
these
jobs
and
then
last
January
or
February.
C
The
governor
raised
the
starting
pay
to
50
000,
the
legislature
very
generously,
supported
that
with
an
appropriation,
and
so
we
are
seeing
increasing
interest
in
these
jobs
across
the
whole
state,
but
I
mean
obviously
every
Market
is
different,
and
it's
not
a
surprise
that
Northern,
Kentucky
and
Louisville
are
the
toughest
labor
markets
and
I've
said
before
I
said
when
I
was
with
you
all
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
that
we
have
to
continue
to
work
at
this
and
I
think
what
we
have
to
do
and
I
know
that
most
of
you
all
will
Embrace
this.
C
We
have
to
just
sort
of
deal
with
the
free
markets
and
how
free
markets
work.
You
know
I
think
what
I
said
before.
Is
you
can't
you
can't
go
in
to
try
to
buy
a
Cadillac
with
Chevrolet
money,
and
so
so
the
way
we
have
to
approach
this
Senator
I
agree
with
you
that
we
have
to
use
every
creative
tool
we
can
think
of
to
recruit
in
colleges
to
recruit
in
high
schools
and
we're
doing
that.
C
You
know
I,
think
that
there's
all
sorts
of
things
we
can
do
to
to
try
to
be
creative,
but
it's
always
going
to
come
down
to
a
competitive
compensation
package.
I
believe
that,
because
I
believe
in
the
way
markets
work.
So
that
requires
us
and
you
all
to
work
together,
and
we
shouldn't
think
that
fifty
thousand
dollars
a
year
is
the
end
of
the
line.
I
think
we
have
to
work
together
to
understand
where
the
markets
are
and
we
have
to.
We
have
to
offer
a
competitive
package
in
the
market.
M
I,
have
one
follow-up,
Mr,
chairman:
okay,
all
right!
Do
you
think
that
the
workforce
challenges
are
solely
because
of
compensation,
or
is
there
something
else
that
we
could
be
doing,
particularly
in
Jefferson
County
on
this
front,
I.
C
L
L
I
will
because
I
mean
you
know
it's
it's
the
the
job
also
entails.
You
know
personal
risk
and
that's
not
necessarily
even
from
like
a
youth
or
somebody
attacking
you,
you
know
doing
restraints.
We
have
a
lot
of
Staff
who
come
up
with
back
injuries
that
throw
them
out
of
there
and
and
liability
concerns.
You
know
when
you're
dealing
with
with
kids,
you
know,
especially
you
know
like
like
at
Campbell,
for
where
having
female
staff
or
male
staff
work
there.
There's
always
that
concern
about.
L
You
know
what
the
kids
are
going
to
say
something
and
whatever.
So
so,
there's
some
you
know
advanced
problems
and
issues
more
than
just
a
regular
job
that
you
might
have.
That
I
think
makes
people
think
twice
about
some
of
this.
Somebody
to
work
in
these
fields
have
to
really
they
have
to
be
a
person
who's
very
competent
in
themselves.
They
have
to
be
able
to
to
take
what
the
kids
deal
out
deal
with
family
deal
with
co-workers,
it's
a
very
difficult
job
and
I
think
that's
part
of
it.
M
L
Generally,
the
appeal
that
we
use-
and
this
is
one
you
know-
I-
obtain
a
lot
of
national
groups-
is
we
we
appeal
to
people
to
say:
do
you
want
to
make
the
difference
in
the
life
of
a
child
that
that
is
our
number
one
thing?
We
want
people
there,
because
the
one
thing
you
know
you
can
have
experience
in
education,
but
you
have
to
have
someone
have
for
lack
of
a
better
word,
the
passion
that
you
want
to
to
help.
Kids.
If
you've
got
that,
then
that's
the
first
place.
L
We
look,
but
we
also
want
to
be
honest
with
them
about
what
they're
going
to
entail,
because
we've
had
that
where
people
go
through
the
academy
and
they
think
they
got
it
and
they're
all
great
and
the
first
time
they
go
through
that
door
and
those
doors
slam
behind
them
and
they
realize
they
can't
go
in
there.
You
know
another
little
thing
that
comes:
you
know
they
can't
have
their
cell
phones
and
that's
a
deal
breaker
for
a
lot
of
younger
people.
L
Who've
never
been
detached,
20,
something
years
old
from
the
cell
phone
in
their
life.
To
say,
when
you
come
in
the
building,
you
got
to
lock
that
in
the
locker
and
when
you're
on
break
you
can
check
but
they're
like,
but
my
kid
texts
me
when
I
get
home
to
make
sure
that
I
know
he's
there
or
the
doctor's
gonna.
You
can't
have
it,
and
so
that's
that's
another
barrier
too.
So
we
we
try
to
balance
it
with
the
realities,
but
we
definitely
do
want
people
who
and
do
good
things
with
our
kids.
M
Well,
we're
we're
here
to
help
so
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
fill
those
chat.
Those
Workforce
challenges
help
you
fill
those
Workforce
challenges.
Thank
you
and.
L
N
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
just
a
few
brief
comments
very
quickly.
First
of
all,
thank
you
to
our
lrc
staff
for
such
an
amazing
job.
You
all
go
above
and
beyond,
and
do
a
great
job.
I
just
would
like
to
remind
the
committee
and
and
those
people
viewing
today
from
home
or
wherever
they
may
be.
N
We
didn't
get
here
today
overnight.
This
has
been
culminating
for
years
to
get
us
to
these
points,
and
then
we
have
these
unfortunate
situations
that
occur.
N
That
grabs
everybody's
attention
and
brings
it
to
light,
and
we
start
looking
into
I
have
really
really
liked
the
the
investigative
part
by
our
lrc
staff
and
I'm,
going
to
suggest
to
the
chairman
of
this
committee
that
we
begin
making
this
a
regular
thing
for
every
agency
in
the
Commonwealth
that
we
can
maybe
capture
things
prior
to
something
happening
and
waiting
until
something
bad
goes
wrong
before
we
start
looking
into
them
and
making
an
annual
thing
during
the
interim
that
one
meeting
is
dedicated
to
a
report
from
our
lrc
staff
on
on
one
of
our
agencies
to
make
recommendations
and
try
to
capture
these
things.
N
I
mean
our
responsibility
is,
is
also
to
provide
the
best
services
for
the
citizens
of
the
Commonwealth,
and
sometimes
it's
good
to
have
a
little
oversight
and
look
into
things,
because
even
people
within
that
agency
may
not
realize
things
are
the
way
they
are
until
they
get
an
outside
some
outside
eyes
on
it.
So
I
think
it'd
be
good,
that
we
start
doing
this
with
what
they
each
every
agency
throughout
the
state
and
do
at
least
once
each
interim.
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
H
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
my
question
kind
of
revolves
and
actually
kind
of
piggybacks
on
on
your
previous
question.
One
of
the
things
that
was
concerning
to
me
about
the
report
that
we
heard
before
was
a
lot
of
the
either
the
incident
reports
or
some
of
the
intake
forms
were
not
filled
out,
were
filled
out
incorrectly
data
fields
missing
certain
things
were
not
caught,
etc,
etc,
and
so
my
question
is-
and
this
is
this
is
not
accusatory.
H
It
simply
just
a
question
in
terms
of
what
you
believe
would
would
be
the
proper
response
to
that.
Do
you
do
you
think
the
issue
of
staff
not
completing
those
correctly
is?
Is
that
a
training
issue?
In
other
words,
are
they
not
taught
to
do
those
in
terms
of
their
training
when
they're
onboarded?
Is
that
a
training
issue,
or
is
the
staff
just
kind
of
not
following
existing
protocol.
C
Well,
I'll
tell
you
what
I
think
the
commissioner
will
probably
have
a
better
answer
than
me:
I,
don't
really
think
that's
a
training
issue,
because
I
I
think
that
they're
trained
that
we
have
a
policy
about
when
incident
reports
are
supposed
to
be
made
and
I
think
they're
trained
on
that
I.
Think.
C
Historically,
it
is
it's
like
so
many
things
a
lot
of
it
comes
down
to
Staffing
and
when
a
lot
of
these
incidents
have
happened,
the
the
incident
in
Adair
County,
for
example,
I,
believe
we
had
three
people
in
the
building
that
night
three
or
four
people
in
the
building,
that
night
and
and
and
that's
how
it
has
happened.
Historically,
with
a
lot
of
these
incidents,
you
have,
you
have
very
limited
staff,
and
so
what
we
hear
from
what
I've
heard
from
time
to
time
is
that
it's
just
it
with
everything.
C
That's
going
on
that
filling
out.
The
reports
doesn't
become
a
priority
now
I'll,
be
quick
to
say
to
me.
That's
unacceptable,
because
I
think
these
reports
are
absolutely
essential.
So
I
don't
think
it's
a
training
issue,
I!
Think
it's
been
a
staffing
issue
and
I
think
it's
been
a
supervision
issue,
because
I
think
the
supervision
all
the
way
up
the
chain
to
me.
You
know
when
these
reports
are
not
filled
out
properly
and
in
a
timely
way.
We
have
to
make
sure
there's
accountability.
So
that's
what
I
think.
L
L
When
that
happens,
if
you've
just
restrained
a
kid
and
you
need
to
do
an
incident
report,
you
can't
leave
your
post
to
go
somewhere
and
there's
no
computers
back
where
the
kids
are
for
security
purposes
and
there's
not
like
a
big
room
full
of
them
somewhere,
we
have
people
in
offices,
so
the
requirement
is
you
fill
that
out
before
the
end
of
your
shift,
but
if
you've
worked
a
16
20
hour
shift
and
you've
been
there
all
day
and
then
you've
you're
trying
to
fill
out
that
report
with
the
handwritten
ones.
L
At
least
that
is
something
they
can
do
when
they're
back
in
the
building,
they
can
pull
that
out
and
fill
that
out
and,
like
I
said,
I've
seen
some
of
the
poor
handwriting
myself
too.
Let
me
also
just
mention
that
the
incident
reports
are
not
the
end.
All
of
us
knowing
what
happens
with
this,
because
everything
is
on
video.
L
We're
also
looking
right
now
at
implementing
the
PBIS,
which
you
may
have
seen
that
some
of
the
report,
the
positive
behavioral
interventions
or
our
systems,
and
one
of
the
things
that's
going
to
do
is
we're
going
to
upload
our
data,
not
just
the
type
of
incident
we
want
to
know
where
it
happens.
Did
it
happen
in
the
kitchen?
Did
it
happen
in
the
room?
Did
it
happen
at
night?
Did
it
happen
in
the
morning
so
that
we
can
look
at
those
Trends
and
not
just
track
that
information,
but
but
look
at
where
we
have
holes?
L
H
Would
certainly
certainly
agree
that,
of
course,
you
know
whether
it's
filling
out
forms,
whether
it's
doing
those
those
reports
is
vital
in
terms
of
not
just
moving
forward
but
vital
in
terms
of
of
hopefully
being
able
to
stop
other
incidents,
and
you
know
in
every
other
field,
whether
it's
DJJ,
whether
it's
somewhere
else,
data
collection
is
important
than
emphasizing
that
to
employees
and
I
know
a
16-hour
shift
a
20
hour
shift.
H
That's
probably
the
last
thing
they
want
to
do
when
they
how
they
leave,
but
it's
important
in
terms
of
getting
that
information
right
and
and
I
would
encourage
you
to
emphasize
that
to
to
them
kind
of
the
last
question
as
well.
If
do
you
in,
in
your
opinion,
do
you
feel
like
had
prior
forms
been
filled
out
correctly?
Had
prior
intake
been
done
correctly?
Do
you
believe
that
the
the
two
incidents
that
we
looked
at
today
would
have
been
avoidable.
C
Well,
let
me
say
a
couple
of
things
about
that
again.
The
commissioner
may
have
a
different
perspective.
First
of
all,
I
agree
with
you,
100
percent,
that
proper,
timely
completion
of
these
incident
reports
is
is
very
important
and
it's
not
negotiable.
That's
something
that
you
know
and
we're
that
that's
gonna,
that
is
in
proving
I,
don't
think
that
would
have
prevented
the
two
incidents.
We're
talking
about
I
mean
the
the
issue
in
Jefferson
County.
C
You
know
we're
we're
using
a
building
there.
That
was
not
designed
to
be
a
Detention
Facility,
which
has
created
a
lot
of
problems,
and
we
also
just
you
know
to
be
candid
about
it.
There
were
some
basic
failures
to
follow
the
most,
the
well
understood
policies
in
terms
of
the
intake
of
one
child
and
what
happened
after
that,
and
so
the
while
as
important
as
these
incident
reports
are,
that
would
not
have
prev
prevented
that
I
mean
let's
face
it.
C
When
you
put
somebody
in
any
kind
of
custody,
the
most
basic
thing
in
the
world
is
you
have
to
do
a
thorough
search
of
that
individual
before
they
go
into
whether
it's
a
juvenile
detention
center
or
a
jail
or
whatever
it
might
be,
and
that
just
there
was
a
failure
in
Jefferson
County
and
that's
that's.
What
started
that
chain
of
incidents
Adair
County
is
is
a
little
bit
more
complicated,
I.
Think
we've
we've
heard
the
situation
with
the
kids
from
Louisville
being
moved
there,
and
there
was
a
one
of
our
staff.
C
People
opened
the
door
of
one
juvenile
who
was
a
very,
very
violent,
dangerous
young
person,
and
that's
what
set
off
that
now.
I
I,
don't
want
to
minimize
the
importance
of
this
data
collection
and
the
reporting,
and
all
of
that,
because
I
think
it
is
critical
and
I
think
more
broadly,
it
can
inform
all
sorts
of
management
decisions
that
will
be
better
informed
if
we
have
that
information
and
it's
also
a
part
of
the
accountability
process.
A
Thank
you.
We've
got
three
more
questions
and
before
we
do
that,
though,
I
am
going
to
entertain
a
motion
that
we
adopt,
the
staff's
report
got
a
motion
and
a
second
please
call
the
roll.
H
A
A
Port
is
adopted,
Senator
Carroll.
K
Thinkers
chairman
I
have
several
questions
but
I'm
going
to
leave
it
at
just
just
one
Mr
secretary,
the
the
instant
recent
incident
at
the
Mayfield
Youth
Development
Center,
where
there
were
three
juveniles
that
that
escaped
and
and
we've
had
this
discussion
several
times
at
a
Next,
Level
Beyond,
the
detention
centers
specifically
the
Youth,
Development,
Centers
and
I
I
had
concerns
about
you
know
continuing
issues,
because
we
we
talk
about,
you
know
being
a
different,
a
more
violent
kid
that
is
in
detention.
K
Centers
I
mean
that
obviously
bleeds
over
into
the
next
level,
with
the
Youth,
Development,
Centers
and
and
I
know
in
Mayfield
they
have
a
fence,
they
didn't
have
a
they
don't
have
a
gate,
they
have
doors,
they
don't
have
locks
on
the
doors
and
so
as
the
next
level-
and
we
didn't
really
spend
a
lot
of
time
with
the
working
group
on
on
talking
about
Beyond
detention
centers
because
of
the
urgency
that
we
were
facing.
But
what
are
your
thoughts
on
on
what
are
going
to
be
some
of
the
next
steps?
K
I
know
you'll
have
a
lot
on
your
plate
right
now
in
just
the
detention
centers,
but
are
there
any
plans
with
the
Youth
Development
Centers
to
change
any
of
the
rules
to
do
any
further
security
measures?
Anything
of
that
nature?
Yes,.
C
Senator,
the
answer
to
that
would
be
yes
and
and
I
know.
That's
been
a
concern
of
yours
and
it's
a
well
taken
concern.
It's
a
concern
of
my
as
well.
We
have
I
think
by
necessity,
over
the
last
year
or
so
focused
most
sharply
on
the
detention
centers,
but
I
I
mean
I
am
pleased
that
we've
not
seen
the
same
level
of
problem
in
in
the
ydc's,
but
I
don't
rule
out
the
prospect
that
that
could
happen
and
that
we
talk
about
that
a
lot
we
had
a
meeting.
C
Let
me
back
up
a
little
bit
when
we
hired
Mr
Larry
Chandler,
who
you've
all
heard
about
to
be
our
director
of
security.
Mr
Chandler
went
around
and
made
a
security
assessment
of
all
these
facilities.
He
started
with
detention
centers,
but
he
also
then
did
a
security
survey
of
all
the
ydc's
and
he
presented
his
recommendations
about
all
of
them.
We,
the
and
the
department,
has
been
working
on
how
to
implement
those
recommendations
and
look
at
what
they
agreed
with
and
what
they
didn't
agree
with.
C
I
think
it
and
we've
had
a
meeting
just
in
the
last
week
or
two
to
go
over
that
and
I
think
they
agreed
with
almost
everything
he
suggested.
I,
don't
remember
everything
on
on
his
recommendations
but,
for
example,
Gates
on
there
we're
going
to
be
putting
putting
in
Gates
in
all
those
facilities
and
and
I
have
encouraged
our
people
who
run
the
YDC
side
of
it
to
take
a
hard
look
at
what
we
need
to
do
to
better
secure
those
facilities
recognizing
that
they
don't
operate
in
the
same
way
as
detention
centers.
C
So
you
can't
just
go
in
and
replicate
what
you
do
in
the
detention
centers,
but
I
think
we
we
we
should
and
must
anticipate
that
we
could
have
increasing
problems
in
the
ydc's.
You
know
this.
This
thing
that
happened
last
week
in
Mayfield
again-
and
this
is
the
sort
of
thing
I
I
think
we
do
have
to
always
look
at
our
policies
and
procedures.
C
We
have
to
always
look
at
training,
but
sometimes
you
you
have
human
error,
that's
just
hard
to
account
for
and
I
I
think
that
a
staff,
a
staff
member
just
left
car
keys
in
the
vicinity
of
some
of
these
some
of
these
children,
which
should
never
happen,
and
they
took
advantage
of
that
situation.
C
L
L
Offenses
we'd
make
sure
that
they
were
like
at
a
level
four
Adair
facility,
and-
and
so
then
we
go
down
to
our
level
two
facilities,
which
are
group
homes,
but
it
really
doesn't
matter
if
it's
a
group
home
a
YDC
or
a
Detention
Center.
You
still
have
to
account
that
Safety
and
Security
is
primary,
no
matter
which
facility
you
have
so
but
I
do
think.
L
Looking
forward
we're
going
to
have
to
be
looking
at
at
something
with
our
buildings,
because
a
lot
of
them
are
Mayfield
has
been
there
as
an
exception,
but
some
of
the
others
are
like
dorm
setups
and
so
some
partitioning
off
the
ability
to
separate
kids.
Now
that
when
those
facilities
were
built,
gangs
weren't
really
over
an
issue,
and
now
they
are
so
the
the
and
even
with
covet
we
had
to
like,
reduce
the
numbers.
So
we
could
spread
the
beds
out
and
ability
to
quarantine
youth.
So
there
will
be
ongoing.
G
Thank
you,
chairman
bowling,
and
the
hours
late
and
I'm
like
secretary
Harvey
I,
want
don't
want
to
encumber
us
too
long,
but
but
I
do
want
to
go
back
to
Senator,
Rocky,
Adams
question
and,
and
this
recalls
a
constitution
I
have
with
represent
representative
Blanton
last
month,
and
that
is,
we
got
to
recognize
of
the
importance
of
wage
differential
I
mean
I,
like
what
secretary
Harvey
said
about
wage
differential.
G
Fifty
thousand
dollars
in
some
parts
of
the
state
is
not
the
same
as
fifty
thousand
dollars
in
others,
and
we've
got
to
come
to
the
recognition
and
the
reality
that
that
in
areas
like
Northern
Kentucky
and
in
Louisville
and
maybe
even
Fayette
County,
you
know
we've
got
to
pay
those
juvenile
workers.
A
higher
wage,
they're
gonna
have
to
pay
in
other
parts
of
the
State.
G
Otherwise
we're
going
to
continue
to
see
see
the
kind
of
problems
that
we
have
in
Louisville
and
Northern
Kentucky,
because
we're
just
not
getting
the
quality
of
worker
there
that
we're
getting
in
other
parts
of
the
state.
That's
one
problem,
because
secretary
Harvey's
already
mentioned
that
the
number
one
problem
is
having
competitive
wages.
G
The
second
part-
and
this
has
been
talked
about
over
and
over
again-
is
that
we've
we're
seeing
a
different
type
of
juvenile
now
come
through
the
system
than
we
did
20
years
ago.
I
mean
we've.
We've
heard
the
mentioned
in
words
of
gangs
several
times
the
the
kind
of
juvenile
offender
that
we're
seeing
coming
in
now
is
is
a
more
violent
offender.
G
More
felon
felonies
have
been
been,
and
we
don't
use
the
word
felonies,
usually
in
juvenile
justice,
but
they're
committing
what
would
be
deemed
felonies
if
they
were
adults,
and
so
there
is
that
risk
and
danger
that
commissioner
Reed
talked
about
that's
associated
with
the
job,
so
you've
got
two
things
going
on.
At
the
same
time,
one
not
adequate
pay
and
and
and
in
all
areas
of
Kentucky,
and
to
a
higher
risk
dealing
with
the
the
persons
that
these
workers
are
attending
to
and
so
we've
gotta.
G
We've
got
to
recognize
that
and
say
that
again,
we've
got
to
create
different
wage
markets
in
different
areas,
and
if
we
don't
do
that,
we're
opening
ourselves
up
to
continued
problems,
particularly
with
the
fact
that
we
got
to
recognize.
Even
though
we
have
higher
wages
now
we're
still
dealing
with,
as
has
been
said
over
again,
an
inexperienced
staff
notice,
you're
going
to
have
to
have
workers
who've
had
four
or
five
years
experience
in
the
same
job
before
you're,
going
to
see
the
a
reduction
and
an
alleviation
in
these
kind
of
problems.
G
So
until
we
until
we
get
to
the
point
where
you
know
we're
paying
adequate
pay
in
all
areas
of
the
state
and
recognizing
that
you've
got
to
pay
these
workers
because
they're
dealing
with
they're
dealing
with
a
more
dangerous
and
more
violent
clientele
than
they
were
dealing
with
20
years
ago.
We're
going
to
continue
to
see
these
problems.
That's
my
point.
Mr
chairman
and
I'm
done.
A
Thank
you,
Senator
representative
Burke.
I
Thank
you,
chairman,
I,
think
I'll
follow
on
that
line
of
topic.
If
that's
all
right,
I
have
a
question
as
that
relates
to
Senator
Rocky
Adams
comments
and
Senator
Thomas's
comments.
I
Does
the
DJJ
offer
any
kind
of
similar
time
off,
as
was
passed
two
years
ago
in
2022
we
did
that
48
Hours
bill
for
First
Responders,
where
you
can
take
48
hours
off
after
a
critical
incident?
Is
that
a
policy
that
you
all
have
in
place
now?
Is
that
a
policy
you
would
want
the
general
assembly
to
take
up.
G
I
L
Was
going
to
say,
given
this
I
would
just
have
to
say
about
right
now,
I
mean
you
know.
We
have
facilities
where
every
staff
is
critical
and,
like
I
said
you
know
some
things
when
we
talked
about
shift
reports
and
they're
Asia,
and
you
plan
that
and
then
two
staff
Call
in
that
day
and
the
other
thing
is
even
though
we
may
have
the
ratio
like
for
that
unit.
At
that
time.
L
Okay,
we
have
one
to
eight
well
that
person
may
need
to
go
to
the
bathroom
or
eat
lunch
or
take
a
break,
and
so
you
have
to
have
somebody
also
there
as
a
sort
of
a
Rover
who
can
come
over
and
step
in
when
that
person
goes
because
we
had
that
situation.
Where
people
are
pinned
to
the
floor,
they
they
can't
leave.
You
can't
leave
the
kids
alone
or
they
shouldn't
leave
the
kids
alone.
So,
even
though
in
my
heart,
I
would
support
that
from
a
practical
standpoint,
I
probably
would
have
difficulty
with
it.
I.
C
C
The
broader
thing
is
is
that
I
I
hope
we
would
all
agree
in
the
executive
branch
in
the
legislative
branch
that
never
again
will
we
let
the
the
staffing
issues
get
to
the
point
where
it's
just
anybody
would
say
it's
unsafe
and
it's
dangerous,
and
because
that's
us
and
you
have
the
means
to
make
sure
that
doesn't
happen
again.
Absolutely.
I
So,
just
throwing
out
another
suggestion,
helpful
suggestion.
Perhaps
what
we
should
do
in
terms
of
wages
is
index
to
the
local
media
income
as
we
are
setting
the
pay
so
that,
hopefully,
in
Jefferson,
in
Northern,
Kentucky
and
Fayette,
where
I'm
from
we're
able
to
do
that
I
know,
that's
probably
challenging
in
the
setting
of
The
General
Assembly.
But
it
seems
like
that's
the
solution
we
need.
Then
I
have
a
second
question.
I
C
Yes,
ma'am
the
way
I
understand
it
and
I'll
probably
get
in
trouble
because
I,
don't
probably
don't
understand
it
very
well,
but
we've
got
some
smart
people
back
here
that
do.
If
you
want
to
talk
to
them,
but
I
I
think
it
will.
We
won't
completely
be
entering
into.
We
won't
become
a
part
of
the
corrections,
comms
I
think
there's
the
vendor
offers
a
module
to
add
on
to
the
existing
software
package
system
that
is
designed
just
for
juvenile
facilities,
so
it'll
be
it'll
it'll,
be
its
own
package
designed
to
deal
with
juvenile
facilities.
C
I
O
So
that
was
definitely
one
of
our
concerns
in
looking
at
this,
and
I
will
just
preface
this
with
I
am
not
an
I.T
expert
I'm
just
on
the
purchasing
side
of
this.
So
that's
my
level
of
understanding
of
how
this
works,
but
essentially
Marquee
the
company
that
is
working
with
us.
They
have
systems
for
multiple
States
and
they're,
primarily
used
for
adult
offender
Management
in
Kentucky.
We
use
them
for
corrections,
but
it's
almost
like
buying
sort
of
an
application,
and
then
they
customize
it
to
the
data
that
you're
looking
for.
O
So
if
there
ever
is
a
situation
where
you
would
need
to
transfer
data
from
the
juvenile
system
to
the
correction
system
in
case
of
a
youth,
transferring
between
the
systems
that'll
be
possible,
but
they'll
operate
independently.
So
Corrections
Officers
won't
be
able
to
access
data
in
the
juvenile
system
and
vice
versa,
we're
just
using
it
as
kind
of
a
jumping
off
point
and
then
customizing
it
for
Juvenile
Justice.
A
All
right,
well,
I,
see
no
other
questions
at
this
time.
Thank
you
all
for
being
here
today.
Thank
you
for
your
testimony.
I
will
again
I'd
like
to
thank
staff
for
this
report
for
their
work.
The
last
nine
months
in
compiling
all
this
I
know.
You
left
no
stone
unturned
and
we
we
certainly
appreciate
it.
The
Commonwealth
does
you
guys
are
an
asset
to
this
state
and
I
do
sincerely.
Thank
you
for
your
work.
Our
next
meeting
is
Thursday.
August
10th
at
one
o'clock
and
I
will
entertain
a
motion
to
adjourn.