Koha-US SIG - Cataloging Special Interest Group, 4 Nov 2021

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From YouTube: Cataloging Special Interest Group - 11/4/2021

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Chat logs:
08:03:31 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd76x78x.html
08:04:09 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/specialcataloging.html#electronicresources
08:04:49 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
https://bywatersolutions.com/education/changing-the-leader-in-marc-records
08:14:21 From Ray Delahunty to Everyone:
https://libsearch.arts.ac.uk/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=czxccvzxcv&branch_group_limit=&limit=
08:16:27 From Ray Delahunty to Everyone:
And I have just noticed a typo! Accound?!
08:17:34 From Ray Delahunty to Everyone:
Our OPACNoResultsFound.
08:17:49 From Ray Delahunty to Everyone: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ph2fPJ_2XiTRRNRSnShCGV4BHeXulJ-2rPrprrc2CcA/edit?usp=sharing
08:21:39 From Cecil Hillyard to Everyone:
Uniform titles should be clickable
08:23:25 From Liz Dukelow Central Kansas Library System to Everyone:
It is very nice!
08:23:54 From Ray Delahunty to Everyone:
I'd use the 776 for Lauren's case. Wouldn't that work?
08:24:14 From Liz Dukelow Central Kansas Library System to Everyone:
YEs
08:24:55 From Liz Dukelow Central Kansas Library System to Everyone:
Oooo
08:24:55 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
130 0#$aCuba economic news.$lSpanish. 245 10$aCuba noticias económicas. 580 ##$aIssued also in English: Cuba economic news. 775 1#$tCuba economic news$x0590-2932$eeng$w(OCoLC)2259984
08:25:00 From Liz Dukelow Central Kansas Library System to Everyone:
Very nice
08:27:17 From Liz Dukelow Central Kansas Library System to Everyone:
Plz do!
08:28:21 From Liz Dukelow Central Kansas Library System to Everyone:
Awesome Jason
08:31:16 From Liz Dukelow Central Kansas Library System to Everyone:
008 23
08:32:33 From Jason to Everyone:
https://guides.library.illinois.edu/c.php?g=463460&p=3168243
08:32:36 From Ray Delahunty to Everyone:
If you are planning to change leader/07 to b then maybe a careful use of MarcEdit?
08:33:09 From Fred King to Everyone:
Can you export the records and search/replace?
08:33:27 From Leanne Cooper (she/her) to Everyone:
Leader 000 s is for serials
08:34:23 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=557
08:34:56 From Julia Robbins to Everyone:
Hi all, sorry I'm late!
08:35:27 From Julia Robbins to Everyone:
Thanks!
08:38:31 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd20x24x.html
08:38:45 From Leanne Cooper (she/her) to Everyone:
could have effects with migration issue whether you use single or separate records depending on new ILS you are migrating too I've read. Separate records migrate more smoothly majority of the time. But we all have and love Koha so we won't be migrating anytime soon :)
08:40:13 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
245 00$a[Man smoking at window].
08:42:34 From Fred King to Everyone:
Observation: zoom on a phone with a bad network connection doesn’t work well. Hope to be at a computer next time.
08:44:43 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
http://koha-us.org/special-interest-groups/
08:47:46 From Leanne Cooper (she/her) to Everyone:
050 $a $b $b kinds of splits the cutter--displays with space--not super noticeable
08:47:50 From Fred King to Everyone:
050a call number. 050b cutter
08:48:13 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
$o PS3558 O33636 L58 v.2
08:48:33 From Heather Hernandez (she/her) to Everyone:
050 0 0 _aPS3558.O33636 _bM33 1999
08:53:20 From Ray Delahunty to Everyone:
At our 6 colleges we have various Dewey versions and local 'preferences' and we ignore the 050. ALL our items have local Dewey in the items. We put in the 'local-Dewy' in the ordering platform and that comes in via EDI (in the GIR segment) and that gets pushed into itemcallnumber as part of the EDI QUOTE building the data in Koha.
08:57:04 From Melanie Quinn to Everyone:
This takes some manipulating in excel but it helps to sort LC call numbers correctly https://scholarsphere.psu.edu/resources/4e1e5dc2-6251-4ff2-8658-ce90b8db6180
08:58:16 From Jason to Everyone:
https://bywatersolutions.com/education/adding-auto-control-numbers-001-to-the-advanced-cataloging-editor
08:58:23 From Jason to Everyone:
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19263
09:00:32 From Leanne Cooper (she/her) to Everyone:
Thank you another great session!

A

Welcome everyone to the november cataloging site. uh We had a few questions submitted in advance and I will start off with the.

A

Plenty of time I'm working to open the chat and put in some links as I'm madly clicking over here there we go.

A

One of one of the questions we had submitted ahead of time had to do with those 7x linking entry fields, so the first link I'm putting in the chat, is to the mark. 21 bibliographic for those linking entry fields and one of the reasons linking entry fields were brought up was with the example of there's the hard copy and the electronic version.

A

And what is what are the pros and cons of putting them all on the same record or putting them on separate records?

A

Oclc has some very helpful guidelines and I'm putting that link in the chat too, and all these uh links are going to be in the youtube recording description for later, even if you're, not an oclc library, the the guidelines that they have about cataloging electronic resources are really helpful because they kind of go field by field.

A

So I like to put those out there as a resource and.

A

I'm gonna put one last link from bywater solutions about the leader in mark records and I'll show you why, in a minute, I'm gonna go ahead and see, look something up here and I'm going to go ahead and share my screen.

A

Are y'all seeing our coho catalog yep great and we were upgraded last night to 2105. So if things are weird, we'll blame it on that.

A

So I have a list.

A

Of rda records.

A

And it's a public list, so people can find these records on our catalog, which is at keys as in multiple keys on a key ring. Keys.Bywatersolutions.Com.

A

And some of our records that are in this list.

A

Are linked through linking entry fields and we've digitized some of our pam files, our ephemerophiles like this one. This is a file of ephemera that we have about us and we have available in another form the print version, and we have the oclc number as the link, and it goes right over to the hard copy which, if you click, goes right back over to the online copy, and I'm going to go ahead and open this up in our opac.

A

Because it's here in the opac that you can see the pretty images from the digitized file.

A

And one question is: why separate records what's the advantage? I mean if it were all in one record, it would all be there and many libraries choose to have things all on one record like, for example, the library of congress. Even though general policies are to put different media versions on separate records for maps, they sometimes have them on the same record and see if I can pull one up.

A

This is one that I had been looking at: it's a nice map of the united states, territory of oregon west of the rocky mountains, one map there's the scale, it's it's a hard copy item, but wait online links and sure enough for their maps, they're using a single record approach. There's the digital map.

A

It's neat. It's tidy! A lot of libraries use this single record approach for the online version.

A

We, however, as you can see, use the separate record approach, the advantage to a separate record approach and let's go ahead and pull up some things.

A

Now our our little images are broken, but an advantage to a separate record approach is that this little material type here and pretend there was a cute little book here is drawn from the bibliographic record from the leader.

A

So in the results.

A

You're getting book print nonfiction, these descriptions are pulled from the bibliographic record down here. The availability in items- that's pulled from the item record and here again here's our copy of that map material type map format available online. It's a remote map, that's pulled again from the bibliographic record.

A

And I think we might have a little problem with that, but I'm noticing- because this is the online version and we've got a location of map a rather than location online. I think I made a mistake on that. One pretend you didn't see it so here's and here's the online available online remote yeah. I think I've got the wrong leader values in that bibliographic record for our hard copy, but pretend it's all pretty incorrect over here on the left. The facets map book locations map online, the locations are coming from item records.

A

So we, if this were a shiny, correctly done example. Ideally, the user would be able to look at the descriptions.

A

Look at the item records and be able to say. Oh, I.

B

A

Which one's the hard copy and I see which one's the online copy and our item records.

A

Even though for the online copies the remote copies, there's no barcode, because of course it's not a physical thing. We can barcode that we put those item records there in order for those facets and limiters and search options to show up when people are say at home or in their office away from the research center and really just want some online copies, and that's one reason why I linked to just my browser here.

A

So I can get that by water solutions, page on explaining these leader values and how to change the leader and the material type icon. If they're not correct or take a look at them, what they are. I think it's a really good introduction to these leader values if you're not familiar with them or you need a refresher and I'm going to go ahead and stop sharing my screen.

A

And I don't know if rey today was able to join us, I think I see ray um he had uh sent in some information about how they're also using these linking entry fields in their catalogs.

A

Sometimes you bring in a record that has the.

C

Link hey ray, would you like to talk about it yeah we had complaints.

D

When um we didn't have the alternative format, now we buy the ebook, but we haven't got the print book or vice versa, and we haven't got time or the staff to go in and remove the links and also, if you do and then later you buy it, you've got to go back in and edit it again.

D

So what we did was thought hard about how we could present this in the opec and using the opec. No results found, and I think we've come up with well it's about as good as I could get it I'll put a link in to our catalogue where there's a rubbish search, and it tells you have you typed wrong or have you come here from a link to try and tell them the error of their ways?

D

Let me put that link in there now.

C

A

Please I I took a look and I have to say I really like the option you came up with and I want to copy it right.

A

While you're getting that link, I think I'll also bring up um the fact that uh the field that you choose to use for the link is how you know is: customizable is changeable in our links. You can see we we made that oclc number visible and one reason we chose to do that was. If we didn't have the item, then it's easier for users to see that oclc number and use that to look for a library that does have it in worldcat.org and uh bruce.

A

You had sent in a question also about control numbers and for us we we have an oclc number in the 01 field and that's what we're using for the links. But I this reminds me of your issue with control numbers.

E

Right and I've primarily, my primary problem, is uh amateur magazine, publishers who uh will change names at random and discontinue for two years and start up again and worst of all. My organization took 17 different publications and merged them into one and then split them back up again and while they were emerged, they maintained the volume and issue numbers for those included pieces, so I'm leaning pretty heavily on these.

E

uh These links, the the challenge I had is that I uh my finger slipped and I accidentally put in a very large number for a control, number and it'll still increment, of course, but it's now got a a gap of an order. A couple of orders of magnitude which I would like to eliminate- and my thought is that somewhere in the system that highest number assigned exists as a as a record and I'm wondering where it is and can I change it or even delete it just put in a put in one manually.

E

Maybe this is something to take to a dev chat.

A

Yeah, that's um that is, I don't know. I mean the system must of course store that number somewhere. I don't know where it is that yeah uh there might be a way to I would say I would look for a report to see if there's a report that lists the highest or gives you the highest number, maybe on the report wiki or on mana.

E

Yeah, I I know what the the highest legitimate number and the and the next assigned are, but I just can't fix them.

A

Yeah, if anybody else has any ideas to share that would be great if not yeah, I'd take it to the.

E

A

E

I knew if I tried hard enough. I could come up with a pro question. You guys couldn't answer, but it took me a while.

E

But yes, the the linking back and forth is unfortunately, very important to my collection and I've been butting, my head against it, making slow progress, but mostly it's a matter of opening up. You know two windows at once, so I can go back and forth.

A

um And we have more in the chat about about the no results found. Yes, thank you.

A

um I'll also mention for those not familiar with linking entry fields with cereals. They are really important for tying in together uh continuations when there's a big title change, so you have the the old title has a linking entry field into it. That says like continued by with the new title and the new title that you know continues and then yeah and you get the splits split into this, and this or you know other editions available. The north american edition, the south american edition, the the atlantic edition.

E

Yeah foreign language editions are another popular annoyance.

F

E

So far, I've found that the foreign language editions are completely different, not translations. So that's something you want to check unless you, unless you trust your publishers. Yes,.

F

Good point is there a way to like we have a lot of books, that's the same book in a lot of languages um right now, they're not linked, and I'm like. Actually that might be kind of nice. If you know you want you, you pulled up the english to know that. Okay, this book is also in thai or tagalog or you know, is there? Is there a field for that.

A

That is a great question. Lauren and cataloging rules approach it differently, there's a way that it was done a lot in easier too and then there's there are other options with linking entry fields with rda. um I I'd be hap. Let me share my screen and see if I can pull up.

A

Let's go back to our catalogue.

A

I am just going to do his search for german and fiction because I believe.

A

We might have.

A

Yeah here we go. Hopefully this one's done well, we'll find out.

A

And no, let's see, I think, we've got the book dust bolt.

A

uh Here we go so the way it was done and it's showing up very tiny, and that is a really interesting cover image that I'm going to have to look into later.

E

Oh, that's actually a fair representation, but just as bad contrast.

A

Yeah, it's very bad contrast. We've got this uniform title here, full english and that's the way it was done and let me show the mark view under or that that's one option.

A

All the additions would have this 240 field.

A

And it's usually the first published original title and that is used to collocate all the editions under that title, with translation of das bolt- and this is the way with uniform titles, different editions of say the bible are all brought together, and in that case it's the best known it's just like bible, english bible, french. That sort of thing and uh uniform titles can be used to collocate the uh editions of works that are known by say, uh you've got um the various editions of works that are known by various things. Works of shakespeare.

A

That sort of thing where the the title on the title page may be slightly different from the best known title or in this case you've got translations approach, is to use linking entry fields and rda. I'm going to stop sharing my screen.

A

Rda allows for that allows you to have linking entry fields that say, translation of and then link the record or has been translated into english french. That sort of thing we haven't explored that option, we're still using uniform titles and, yes, thank you, cecil uh yeah, something that is a drawback in our catalog of this approach. Is that that is not clickable, you have to click the author in order to get all the additions and also um in a dream world a dream catalog.

A

I would like to have them all together under a record for the boat, and you could click. You show me. The editions show me the languages.

F

I think aspen does that it looks like that's what it would do that, but I'm wanting to know how what you know, what field it would use to link the language. Would that be the addition field.

A

I can't remember yeah ray puts in I'd use the 776 for lauren's case. Wouldn't that work, let let me take a look over yeah. I okay.

A

I I like well 776 for additional physical form is usually with the online version, the micro facial version. I I think I'd be tempted to use the 775 other edition entry.

A

And I'm scrolling over to see yes, I'm going to put this example in the chat from the format 775 yeah.

E

The 775 has a language uh tag in it, so that would be helpful.

F

That would whatever field I use it has to have a language.

F

It would be a requirement.

E

Yeah, it's important to know that this version of macbeth is in klingon yeah.

A

That's right, I see friends joined us.

A

Oh, he is on screen for a minute there. He is.

E

I thought I smelled it. Can you hear.

G

C

F

G

Yeah, I'm uh connecting for my iphone outside a hospital uh office building where I hope my wife just killed me here. So she can give me a ride home.

A

I hope everything's all right.

G

um My car has three dent rims.

G

G

Everyone else is freezing, so probably not a great connection.

A

There were a little interruptions, but I I I did hear that it's a car problem there's some bent rims well. I hope I hope that works out really well. We were in the middle of discussing linking entry fields and language editions and hey jason.

B

I've had one year in here, um I I wanted to mention that cohort does do some minimal verbalization um without aspen, and it leverages library thing and I've been playing with it on the side here. um So I brought in a record for the boat, and then I brought in das boo or however you say it um and it does seem to since those are both in the library thing record and I've turned that on. um It links them up, and I can show you what that looks like.

H

B

Check this one okay, so you see the record on my test server here.

C

B

So um since I brought two separate records in but they're the same thing, then they get this additions tab. When I click it, then it brings me over to the other one uh and that system preference is covered up by my zoom controls.

B

um So it's ferberize editions it's in the enhanced content section and then you also have to turn on thing isbn and if I recall correctly, they do limit the number of requests that you can make in a certain time period.

B

So if your catalog gets heavy use, it may stop working. I don't think we've ever run into that problem, um but there you can turn it on and off independently in both the staff, client and the old pack. If that becomes a problem, so that's that may be another option outside of because nothing in the record is doing that. It's going out to library thing and looking and saying. Oh, these, these editions are all together.

B

It's all the same thing, but all these isp and it's using the isbn to say well that should be associated with that.

A

Oh, that's gorgeous. I love it.

A

Yeah, thank you. I'm gonna go play with that.

A

Does anybody have any other questions about linking entry fields.

F

I have another one on the leader: is there a way to batch edit a bun like if I run a report for articles that I have that are print articles? Is there a way to do a batch edit to update all those leaders to say that it's a serial article instead of book, which it currently says or do I have to manually- do that.

A

Okay, now I've only had two cups of coffee disclaimer, but.

A

A

Thinking about I'm gonna try to take a look here at one of our records for an article.

E

I'm just trying to figure out, you know which of the offered uh values you would want to use here.

A

A

See what I'm thinking is that the analytic record for the article, though, is a monographic item.

A

But let me get an example here: the.

F

Icon, if you select monographic part or serial part, it changes the icon.

F

If it's modern, if it's just I can't remember, but it have book- has a different icon than article. An article has a different icon than continuing resource.

E

If I may, you find this option.

A

Yeah, are you talking about like in that browse list.

F

A

F

About, oh sorry, but I'm getting confused the zero zero. Eight mm-hmm, though the leader has something to do with our articles and journals are a mess. They all say book.

F

Okay, I'm like we have to clean it up, and my first step is clean out the item record.

F

But at some point the bibliographic record needs to be touched, um they're all print, so the three three six seven and eight would all be the same. That's fine! It's the leader and the zero zero eight that's gonna have to.

A

Right right, it needs to happen you're talking about having, in the bibliographic record, that material type say, article.

F

A

Yes, that is from the leader, so yes thank you, liz 008 position 23., I would say um definitely check out that bywater solutions, page right and oh jason, put in something helpful and ray suggests mark edit yeah, I'm not I'm not familiar with changing doing a batch edit inside like a batch modification tool on the 008.

A

That's a little bit outside my expertise. Others might have more information on that, but that is definitely something that mark edit can handle and mark. Edit has the additional benefit of your you're extracting copies into mark edit, and you can play with them.

B

The link that I put in there is uh talking about using mark edit to modify your control fields and there's info on modifying your leader in there too. Okay.

A

Great jason, thank you.

A

Yeah and leanne mentions zero zero, zero s for serials. Yes, yes, um I have a little model, analytic record.

A

I can pull that up.

A

Here we go here's one of our analytics.

A

And that little material type icon is actually working interesting.

A

And we have, we have in that model record, it's kind of a weird hybrid. uh It just said we scanned. We have scanned issues available online.

A

We don't have a separate online record or separate online articles, so we have an article also available online in the internet archive scanned issue, link which is kind of another blend. For this whole, shall we have a single record? Shall we have a separate record?

A

Oh and julia's joined us, hey, welcome.

A

I guess my feeling on the approach of should you do a single record approach for different manifestations of an item say hard copy, online micro formats, etc.

A

I've always felt that there's you think one has to think about what is best for the user. How are they going to approach it? How are they going to try to find it, and I found at least in our setting that there's no one solution- that's appropriate for every format, you'll see with these types of analytics, where we've got an analytic record for an article but there's no separate online version of the article but the whole magazine's available online.

A

We we've done this sort of single entry, single record approach for that, but for maps and charts, we've done a full, separate record approach, so those are all completely findable sortable searchable separately.

A

There may be no one solution appropriate for every format.

F

Yeah the librarian's favorite answer is well, it depends exactly.

A

Well, in going back to talking about how to deal with different language editions, we also had a question submitted ahead of time about foreign language articles because of course, in the foreign languages that affects the sorting and let me go back to mark 21 and put in a link to the 245 title or two. These are all the title fields.

A

And when we were looking at our record for dust boat in the 240s in uniform titles, all the articles are dropped, so the 240 was just vote.

A

So some of the fields articles are dropped because there's no way.

A

There's either no way to tell the machine where to sort- or that was the cataloging rule at the time, but in the 245. That second indicator tells the machine where to start sorting.

E

A

Yep, oh and let me go ahead and put that link into everyone there. We go.

E

My problem is: the inventory function. Doesn't uh respect that second indicator.

A

Sounds like there's a there's, a good bug that should go into bugzilla for development.

E

It recognizes a and v, but any foreign language uh articles just rolled right in.

E

You know, of course, the french always start with l apostrophe, and then then we got a whole nother problem.

A

And the indicator is set differently and I really encourage people to look at the mark. 21 for 245.

A

Apostrophe, that's going to get a second indicator of 2 for the l and the apostrophe, but if you have, if I'm remembering correctly, if you have punctuation first, then a sortable word: let's, let's go! Look it's a little bit different, oh and leanne puts in the chat too. Yes, this could have effects with migration issues.

A

Right into koha, depending on how your your indicators are set so yeah the examples in the 245.

A

This is a great one.

A

They say: there's brackets.

E

Yeah, it's just a raw character count for uh some sorts, but it's uh just ignored for some others. Yeah.

A

Well, does anyone have any other questions today or anything they'd like to chat about bring up.

F

I have a couple: yes leanne. What.

A

Oh, I mean lauren. Excuse me, excuse.

F

Me and some of them are on the whole idea of languages. So is it possible you can translate item types? Is it possible to translate authorized values.

F

Instead of creating authorized about, you know the same shelving location as journal. You know all of our libraries have journal but they're in different languages.

F

So right now I have to create. I either have to put the translation and make it one really long thing or I have to just create new shelving locations in the different languages. Is there a way to translate?

F

Am I like, I feel like I'm missing something. No, that's.

A

That's an incredibly interesting question and I think I would take that to perhaps the web dev sig because it has to do with different language.

A

Different language members of your consortium.

B

All right have zoned out there. Are you just wanting to display things in different languages? Yes,.

F

B

The opec, so I think you can install separate language packages um because there is a huge translation community for coha um and I'm not sure how to do that. um But I know that there are some system preferences and, uh like some numbers and letters.

E

Translations are a thing, but I think the question here is: uh is there the ability to create a second authority file or a translation of the authority records.

F

Yeah, it would be so your authorized values are they're localized, so they're not translated in the big scheme of things.

A

Oh so, if you're talking about authority records, absolutely you can absolutely use different whole thesauri um and that's usually controlled in in say the in subject records in 6x fields. It's the second indicator, whether you're using say the the french authority terms or the or the spanish or the german, or I mean it would be less of an issue. I would think in names because you know a name as a name is a name right, um but yeah you can. You can definitely when it comes to your authority. File code is very happy importing different.

A

You know, library of congress along with genre terms, and and I I think it would be very happy- also importing a different language subject to sora. I'm looking up the koha us page that lists our different sigs because we've we've mentioned.

A

Oh, that might be a good question for web dev or but um let's put the link in the chat. So people know about those interest groups.

A

A

Because there is a consortia interest group which may have some information about different language members of the consortia, but also there is the web dev group and the system administration group that may have more information and familiarity with the different language installations.

F

And then I have another question: we we just added a library that uses library of congress instead of dewey.

F

Now you're talking my language, all right, so library of congress has split call numbers versus dewey tends to be a straight. I feel like this is a different english. I don't know what the english is for the different options in the item record. Is there a way to split like can coha split the call number, or does it all have to be in zero? I think it's zero is the call number.

F

Can I make it the two? Can they keep the two separate fields or do they have to all be in one to work in co-op.

A

So if I think, if I understand your question correctly, um you're talking about item records, each item record has a field in it. That says whether or not this item has a dewey or a library of congress call number and if that's set correctly koha then should handle and display the call number appropriately.

F

Would it change the fields used.

A

In the item record, you'd still have your call number in the subfield. Oh, I think.

A

Let me look again at my record.

A

So I'm pulling up an item record to take a look yeah, the in the item record, which is 952.

A

If I remember correctly, subfield 2 is your source of classification or shelving scheme, and if that is set for like correctly for library of congress or dewey, then whatever you have in the subfield o for full call number should display correctly and I'm going to put oh here, we go. um Oh okay, yeah, oh 50, subfield, a and b is not um is, is formatted completely differently from the subfield o.

A

So yes, fred, yes, so here I'm putting in this is what we've got in one of our records for a subfield o. This is in the item record and then in the bib record, the way that looks grab the mark for the o5o.

A

Is formatted differently.

A

And looks very weird in the chat, so what we do uh is I have to manually edit what is automatically put in the chat and then in the subfieldo. In the item record, I need to take out that full stop that period before the first cutter. Oh three, three, six, three, six and then take you it.

A

It doesn't automatically feed it super correctly usually, but it does cohen, does do a pretty good job.

E

G

B

E

I'm lost here I was on the impression that call numbers went into the item record rather than the biblio.

A

They're in both places um the bib record yeah see the bib record, carries the call number for the whole title in the library of congress call number in an 050 or okay in a model world. The library of congress call numbers in the 0.50.

A

The dewey number, I believe, is in the 082 and if there are local differences for that, there are local like for the library of congress, you can go into an I know, but now we're getting a little weird. So the o5.

E

Library, that's what I need.

A

Yes and then your item records your 952 subfield, o is pulling out of depending on your installation. Usually it's pulling out of an 050 to then supply here here you go. This is your your call number right and then, in an ideal world, in one library, all the item records have the same call number um things of course, get a little different if you've got a consortia like lawrence.

A

Yeah and I'm popping back over to mark 21.

E

So so, if I might, if I understand correctly, um the o5o or whatever is going to have a call number that is correct for all of the items, which is to say it might be truncated. If there's multiple volumes, the volume numbers would only be in the item record.

A

Yes, the if there are multiple, multiple volumes that are all on that same bib record, then you're going to be using the 952 subfield h, serial enumeration chronology for your volume numbers and then you're going to be if you've got copy numbers. Those are going to go in such field t now, if you're in a consortium- and you are using o5os for your co for your library of congress- call numbers, there are subfield codes.

A

H

A

I think if different libraries are using different library of congress call numbers, I think that's where you'd start using some 09 o's, possibly but again, that might be a question to take to the consortia the consortium special interest group. Oh.

E

There's only one of me, but uh the we do have a a unique classification system and I know, is completely undefined. So I'm not sure how much that's going to buy me.

A

Well, we actually use the own. I know, because we vary from the library of congress. Quite often since um we have a world of local cataloging practices historically, as as I'm sure you do, and.

E

Special libraries, just you know, don't fit very well.

E

The the I used to run a railroad history, library and I I took a dymo labeler and made 385 and stuck it over the door.

A

So yeah, so we oftentimes will have multiple, oh fibos. In our record, we've got an 050 with the indicators indicating this is the library of congress call number that the library of congress uses here's a no 50 second indicator 4.

A

That is a slight variation that we use or that we'd like to use and then an 0.90. This is what's really on the item right now, because I haven't done my um reclassification project.

G

E

I know about reclassifications a lot, but.

A

Oh, when ray puts into the chat about um ah their usage with their sex colleges. Thank you.

D

Yeah utter madness: um it's we have uh various versions and what we're doing is uh we're ignoring any bibliographic level uh classification and creating our own, and we have done some pretty good stuff with edi um to populate the the item record. The item call number field works very well and as long as we we have got the subfield two set to dewey.

D

They all um they all sought an order correctly.

A

That's great ray, thank you. um I will point out too that koha does have issues sorting library of congress call numbers correctly. um I I don't have uh on the. I don't have the bugs put up right now, but when I'm actually shelf listing with the library of congress, I use an item search because the advanced item search will.

A

Actually then, when I click the heading for call, number will actually sort all of the library of congress cutters correctly, because the for those unfamiliar the initial alphanumeric sequence in the library of congress is a whole number. And then the cutters are decimals.

F

Do you know if the the item types allow for so like some of this? Is migration old systems allowed for a field for prefix a field for classification, a field for item, and then a field for copy or volume does co ha like? Is there a way to make quahog do that where I can just.

F

Move information from the 852 into the 952 without merging them into the full criminal, or do I need to is that my only option.

A

I think, if I understand you correctly, I have also worked with systems that do have the like a call number prefix field.

A

I believe uses item types, locations and collection codes, so collection codes are often where other systems use prefix. That would be like fiction or graphic novels or board books picture books.

A

So a lot of times collection codes can handle that that that prefix function or it's actually having to do with an item, type or shelving location. Others might have more information on how they have approached that.

B

Yeah we just kind of dump everything into that full call number field so and as far as the work kind of wild westy, with the call numbers in general, I mean we'll we'll we let the um republic, so we we're all dewy pretty much, um but we let that fall come out of the record. The oa2, I think, is what we have mapped um so we'll let that pull down to the item. uh But then every library has control over what they actually put in that call number field.

B

That's one of our big local control things but um yeah. I would agree that, like a lot of the classification is happening outside of the call number field in coho, so we'll put, our system is collection code is adult books and then our shelving locations are separated out to fiction non-fiction whatever, um but some of that information does get put into the call number as well so like we've got the f and then the author for the field, that sort of thing, but it's all kind of just living in that one field.

F

A

Oh and melanie put a link into the chat with oh, oh excel, for sorting lc call numbers correctly interesting. Thank you melanie.

B

um Bruce bruce not bob bruce, and I were having a conversation on the side about his control number issue. I did want to uh put this in chat as well.

B

I don't know, there's an authorized value category, so you might be able to get from that integral instead, like because we were talking about getting into the database and getting into the metadata field and manipulating the number there, um but if you can get control of it yeah, if you can get control over that on in the on the front end, I think that would give you a cleaner result. So maybe, if you can get this, the advanced cataloging editor set up to see the 001.

B

um You might be able to get at it without having to to modify your database.

E

All it lets me do is uh override the number.

B

Which doesn't let you put in your own number.

E

Yeah, it does allow me to put in my own number, but uh the auto increment function is awfully nice, because I don't.

B

E

Me not to duplicate myself.

B

I wonder if turning off the auto increment and then setting your number and then turning it back on would reset it.

E

No, that's the control number auto increment isn't uh controllable, uh it is for uh barcodes, but not. I couldn't find a control to turn off turn off auto increment control numbers.

G

B

And see, I'm not familiar with it enough because we don't use auto increments at all, so um yeah.

E

I'm not going to claim expertise either.

B

E

I'll try web dev see what they think.

B

Yeah yeah lucas is usually at web dev and he knows the back ends and are working so he might have a an easier solution too. Yeah.

E

We're on the wrong side of the digital divide here.

A

And and if you do uh take it to webdev or or or even the submin group and and get some answers, please let us know how it goes.

A

Well, we're we're at the top of the hour, but does anybody have anything else.

E

I think I'd have done a farm.

A

Well, our next meeting is uh scheduled for thursday december 2nd. So I guess we'll see you then I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording.