Koha-US SIG - Cataloging Special Interest Group, 6 Jul 2023

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From YouTube: Cataloging Special Interest Group - 7/6/2023

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00:23:31 Kelley Minars: I would also like to see how you do things.
00:23:39 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: Reacted to "I would also like to..." with 👍
00:26:57 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: We only put a 999 nothing else
00:27:19 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: we do not need the 942 in the OCLC record
00:27:27 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: it is mandatory on the Koha side
00:31:06 Heather (she/her): I guess the 942 isn't mandatory in our system--apparently we're not using it!:)
00:32:03 Jason: The 942 itemtype is important for record-level holds (so it can follow your circ rules) which is why its mandatory by default but you can disable that in the framework
00:33:22 Heather (she/her): Ah--our users really don't use holds--they tend to just save titles to a cart and email the cart to our Reference Librarian.
00:33:52 Heather (she/her): Bugs: Ability to change aut type while editing record, https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30930
00:35:32 Heather (she/her): Elastic aut record results not ordered correctly due to punctuation marks, https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=26472
00:36:34 Fred King: This just in: KohaCon 2024 will be held in Montreal.
00:37:21 Heather (she/her): Oooooh--Montreal!!
00:38:36 Heather (she/her): Exporting labels as a barcode range can cause 500 error, https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=34157
00:39:13 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: Find brief/short/acq records to overlay on OCLC - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PwiPV1qvY7hRojkFwDKAVc7gO8tWMn7Ldm77uc7gTp8/edit?usp=sharing
00:39:31 Heather (she/her): The bug about the search bar changing from "default" with augs, https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=34134
00:40:10 Heather (she/her): Library name doesn't print when printing barcode range, https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=31507
00:40:34 Heather (she/her): Make aut preview look like bib preview, https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=34179
00:41:46 Heather (she/her): Koha-US 2023 conference, https://koha-us.org/events/conferences/2023-koha-us-annual-conference-portsmouth-nh/
00:57:52 Jason: Self-checkout slowness https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=33109
00:58:16 Eileen Chandler, CLAMS: This is our ticket number 113234.
00:58:48 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: 1. Increased the server cores from 8 to 12 2. Increased the RAM from 20GB to 32GB 3. Upgraded your code to the most recent iteration of 22.11 last evening 4. Increased PLACK workers from 16 to 25
00:59:17 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: The server is currently reporting 32% usage, which points to the fact that ourserver is over proportioned (which is fine and we will leave it that way to besafe)
01:01:59 Jason: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11703
01:03:20 Christie: Response from Bywater on our "slowness" koha ticket: That is very odd. Is there anything else these three libraries have in common,IT infrastructure wise? We show this server running consistently at 98% idle.Directly observing it today shows no particular spikes in activity or loadthat would correlate with user experienced slowness.We'll continue to monitor, please do let us know when you spot these periods.
01:08:27 Michelle CLAMS Library Network: Whatever happened to #mashcat? Didn't Galen lead that years ago?
01:09:57 Fred King: Reminds me of what Nell said in NCIS-LA: "I speak geek. These are my people.
01:10:05 Lauren Denny: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Mashcat/
01:10:16 Lauren Denny: found that on google

A

Hello, everyone welcome to the July uh Coca us catalog or cataloging special interest group meeting.

A

um One thing I wanted to do before we like leap into cataloging is I recently really started dipping my toes into IRC, and it's really cool and I thought I'd share my screen and just show it off a little bit because I think it could be a really great resource for everyone.

A

B

There are 10 people watching, of course, it's not going to work.

A

I love flailing it just you know it makes everybody realize we're all flailers at something: hey, Parikh, okay, here we go. Can people see the koha library website.

A

Okay, so it's I mean the koha community website, so it's koha, Dash community.org.

A

You go to get involved and you go to chat.

A

It says the channel is logged. If you go there.

A

Here's all the transcripts of it and you can search it, which is really really cool.

A

So leave Channel, selected, Nick I think his nickname text, that's where you put something like I'm gonna, put mark and submit.

A

And here's where everybody talked about Mark and you'll notice, it's automatically truncated.

A

So, even if you never go into chat, there's this resource where you can search it.

A

So I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna just pick connect directly through my browser.

A

Put in a nickname and connect.

A

Because it's my work computer as that, and then it took me a long time to figure this out. But this little tiny box down here is where you put in things to chat so I put in like hi.

A

This is other I'm in the koha US catzig meeting right now, showing piping, showing everyone how cool IRC is.

A

Oh I thought it was a command. That's really interesting. Hi I'll just say: hi can't use this Commander okay. So it's not working right now, but anyway, that's what you usually do. um It usually works.

C

A

Oh thanks see I'm a total newbie.

A

A

um I'm gonna stop sharing this window into CL and you just like close the tab and it closes it.

B

I used to have it on my bare Linux computer uh Link in Firefox, but seems to have disappeared well.

A

Anyway, it's really easy. um If you even just use that search. It's super handy and everyone. There is totally nice. uh It usually works for me. I think, maybe because of the screen sharing or it's my work. Computer I, don't know, but yeah just go in, say, hi, ask any question the time. Difference sometimes means that there's no one there or maybe there's someone there, but the channel is logged.

A

So there's that then I wanted to show people. We got updated to 22 11 and it's super cool and I ran across a lot of bugs, but I wouldn't like not upgrade for the world. It's totally neat um I'm going to go ahead and I want to share my screen and let me get the the window up there. We go I want to just show one thing and then I'm going to put a lot of bugs in the chat so I'm going to try sharing my screen again.

A

Okay, can people see our catalog okay.

A

So when you go to authorities.

A

Say we're searching Sterling and I want to search the entire record for Sterling.

A

I get a lot of neat stuff and I'd, be like oh Sterling, Hayden, huh yeah, I'm, I'm cataloging, a book where Sterling Hayden actually worked about you know worked on anchors, say so I go look at Sterling Hayden! It's like is this. Is this really the Sterling yeah yeah yeah yeah the star because he actually was into sailing so yeah, Sterling, Hayden? Okay, so now I'm searching the entire record and I want to look about anchors.

A

No results found. Excuse me, I know for a fact that this Maritime Library uses the subject heading anchors.

A

So here's what's going on and it took me quite a while to figure this out so we're going to search entire record ing. Now this you can see we can see itty bitty little tiny Kebab. Looking thing is where you select what you're searching like default, which really is keyword.

A

Operator Etc so right now, I'm of course it's a default I'm at the beginning, I just said authorities, so I'm searching Sterling.

A

Here's lots of headings this is still on default.

A

I go look at Sterling Hayden and this has been reset to personal name. For me, how helpful so, when I go to entire record now and I want to search anchors note it's still on personal name, but it's so hidden and Tiny I, don't realize it so I just search anchors and it says nothing.

A

But if I move it back to default.

A

I get my anchors.

A

So because it's so weeny tiny, I missed it, I've been emailing with other people who missed it. So that's one of the the things that has gone into bugzilla, it's like it. It shouldn't I, don't think it should reset its search type based on something I looked at.

B

Or at the very least, it should show you what you're searching yeah to put in.

D

I think we asked for a fix on that. Did we Michelle for Authority searching.

E

um We changed it to starts with that's what our cataloger wanted. So that's all we changed on there.

A

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to just put a lot of bugs for people to look at in the chat uh while I'm doing that. Does anybody have anything they wanted to bring to the group.

D

How do you do cataloging in oclc, not from The Coho side we're a Consortium? We do hundreds of imports a week. We do it from the oclc side and it's really not working for us cataloging. We're not happy.

A

Oh gosh, okay, um I can go ahead and show people what I do if that would be helpful all right. Let's let me get my oclc cataloging client up.

A

And I'll put the bugs in later.

A

All right getting that up: logging in okay.

A

All right can people see my oclc cataloging client all right, so what I am going to catalog is something that I usually catalog, for a task.

A

Community records.

A

My catalog too many records I, usually pull up something like The Hobbit, because there's no way, my library being a maritime history, library is going to have The Hobbit.

A

So this one, oh this one's in a foreign language, Chinese nice. Let's just do this! Let's just pretend we're cataloging this one.

A

So I'm going to save it.

A

I'm not going to set my Holdings because we don't really have it so it says no Holdings in Udu, but that's okay. I can still export it.

A

Maritime stacks call number p r.

A

Okay, I'm going to fake a call number here.

A

I'm not going to print in a barcode because it's not real and our system won't care. I'm going to put in a big public note.

A

Cataloging test and now I'm going to export it.

C

Heather, do you put in the 942 I, do not.

A

How come uh never have.

C

uh We're a public library and that's the one that indicates which icon is going to be displayed.

A

Okay: let's go look at the record in our Cohen, we'll see if I have a system default or something like that.

C

A

Let me share now our catalog and we'll go look at the record. Yeah.

B

In my system, it's mandatory I can upload a record, but if I'd make try to make any changes, it's going to say, wait a minute eat the 942.

C

We have to have the non-42 as well. We can't save without it.

A

Okay, here's our record.

B

Of course, you can just change the framework and make it not required.

A

Let's see if we have one.

D

We'd be interested to see what framework it went into.

A

It went into ours is default, everything is default, we have no special Frameworks, so our records we are just. We are not using a 942.

A

um What I can do is overlay this record and put in a 942 and see if it works.

A

So, let's grab the record number.

C

Actually, just edit it oh great okay, but you could add the 942 in part of your constant data in oclc as well. Right.

D

We're we only do a 999 I, we don't know what you're talking about with the 942 and the 952.

A

So the 952 is the item record.

B

B

Default item type, COA, specific and so so field eight is the cataloging system you're using.

A

So what should I put in for a 942.

C

Subfield two DDC, if you're using DDC but you're using LCC, uh hold on subfield two LCC subfield ctlc.

B

C

B

Yeah, okay, but you need both of them. Sometimes item type is two: that's right.

F

B

Our two is nlm there you go all.

G

A

Save, let's take a look.

C

It pulled the right item type and gave you the item type in your item record I noticed but yeah we were having this problem, it didn't it didn't populate to the OPEC without the 942c. All right. Let's look now you have the item type look at the bottom, so you've got a little um an icon.

C

Eileen, what questions do you have what's happening with your with what you're doing.

D

uh We're a Consortium where we do centralized cataloging for 37 libraries, so um our libraries enter a brief bib. What we call a brief, bib just author title publisher and they add their own item records with barcodes. So we don't have to make the item record on oclc.

H

D

Our workflow is, we go into oclc and the catalogers here will know more about us, um but we go into oclc and import records or export records into cohub one by one to Overlay specific short bibs on our system, and it keeps defaulting to the fast ad framework rather than the default framework we want. We want the libraries have to use the fast ad framework, because there's no mid-level permissions in Coho, unfortunately, and we don't allow them to update full bibs, so they should only have access to brief bibs and not import from oclc.

D

We do all the imports from oclc for them, so we overlay the brief bib on our system and it keeps defaulting to a fast Edge framework instead of the default framework, because once we import, we don't want the libraries touching it.

D

They can only touch short records that are important with fast ad are not important but created with fast ad. They might want to update the pagination or something, but once once it comes in from oclc, we want the record to be the default framework where nobody else can touch it except Central site if necessary. So that's the issue. It's uh we don't need to create the item. On the oclc side. We just use what did Michelle say a 999.

E

But it's 999 subfield C and then that over.

D

E

D

Don't know whether there's any other Consortium on here who can help us, maybe out of outside the meeting, but um it keeps defaulting to the fast framework rather than the default so and there's no way for us to do a search to update the Frameworks from Fast add to default. The system doesn't accommodate that for some reason, so we'd be quite happy to run a batch to find them and run a batch update on Frameworks.

D

So that's the development we'll be putting in um if anybody's interested in that. So we need to be able to find these things that have the oclt number and update the framework yeah.

C

Okay, we're a Consortium- it's not very we're, not very big, but what we do is import a batch of records from oclc, which is a file. It's basically a.dat file and I run it through the stage Mark records tool until it to match on either oclc number, which we have added in the 001 field.

C

But you can do it to the o35 field, except there are multiple o35s and many oclc records because they've merged them. We would love to make a contract. We can also match on isbns or issns and that I told it to Overlay and it does want the 942 in the record, but it will let us import without that. It's just that anytime. We have to edit the record. It says add the thing same here that sounds like a reasonable workflow to you, guys, Bruce.

D

Yeah I mean I think what Nancy is doing, she's exporting one by one. If we export and batch it will pick the default framework, but for some reason, when we export, because Nancy likes to compare the short record with the full record on oclc before overlaying it so um we'd be interested in looking at your you know. If you were willing to share your workflow I, don't want to take up the whole meeting with it, but maybe we can change something in our workflow.

I

We also do a lot of original cataloging here, so our cataloger needs to be able to work on the oclc side and then bring the record in.

G

I

It's you know, it's complicated.

C

Logging here as well- and it works pretty well for us- you can import one record at a time. If you only have one you can import I. Think I, probably wouldn't do more than 100 at a time, because, if you're getting hiccup, then it's really a pain in the button, but the.

D

The issue is, but.

C

The record match is pretty good and you can run a record. You can run a I would run a report to list the brief records.

D

We do that every day.

C

And then you can test those.

B

C

B

To ask: how do you do a report on brief records.

D

We have a report if anybody wants the code, um but I would be interested Jane in in seeing your workflow in more detail, so we can see if we need to change ours. Well, obviously, we do because it's not working for us what we're doing.

A

I'm gonna throw out there that if you have a report, yes, someone always wants the code. So please put it on The Coho report Wiki and.

G

A

If you participate in Mana Sheridan, Mana manohar.

A

Brief detour topic wise: there are two ways to share reports. My favorite, the lowest Tech, is sharing it on the koha reports. Wiki um there's a direct link to it from the reports air area in koha. It's like called something like Coho reports, Library, something like that and editing. The wiki is really easy. I can help you. Many people can help you and put your report. There then another way uh within koha itself if you've set it up, is sharing your report into a knowledge.

A

Base called Mana and koha currently can share reports there and subscriptions and there's some good resources online about mana and setting it up, and if you share reports to Mana or search Mana for a report when you bring it in, you need to add some Carriage returns and things to it.

D

Wow I have no clue how to do that. How do you spell Mana.

A

M, a n, a and I know by Water Solutions did a video on it um and the I I. It should be in the manual uh we we participate in it. We use it and that's something that I think the uh koha us system. Min group would be more than happy to help with show and everything.

F

We have a link to it on our when you clip out Administration um at the very top. It says: share content with Mana KB and then we haven't shared. But um if you want to share there, I think there's a link there.

A

And there's a system preference where you have to like turn it on.

H

Today's, like you, have to have buy water, do a little finagling. Ours is not on either.

D

But um Jane and any other network that does this batch export we'd be interested in talking to you.

G

um If I would like to.

D

Share your workflow.

D

C

Added the reporter yeah I'll, put I'll put my email in chat: okay, Eileen yep.

D

um And anyone else who is a Nash work or a Consortium or whatever. That would be great.

D

And Michelle has posted the code for the report. I mean she's put it in chat.

C

Beautiful. Thank you.

F

And this I came in late, I apologize and this report is to do what.

I

Oops first, let's just Define the brief records that haven't been overlaid yet. Thank you. Yeah.

B

Yeah I do cataloging in a far smaller scale um and when they had something I, just can't download it um as an MRC file and then go through Market and picking out the 650 that are in something other than English. um You know CLC fast.

B

G

B

A lot easier to do in Market.

H

Happened almost entirely in Gohan, so I know that our catalogers use the oclc. But it's it's like tertiary. It's not even secondary. It's like the third thing they go to um so I can't offer help with our workflows. Sorry.

B

Eileen, are you catalogers familiar with Market.

D

Well, they're here.

B

Okay, Michelle.

D

Is I think I'm.

G

B

D

um I'm not I used to be a casual logo, but I not anymore, so I have no idea about Mark Ellis.

B

G

We should start yeah.

E

I'm just learning it yeah yeah.

B

It is well worth learning yeah.

E

Definitely I definitely want to learn more about it um because yeah I know we can do a lot more editing batch editing in it and um that's what I do I do. Most of the like big batch, edits and I haven't been able to do that in koha, yet so um yeah so I definitely need to learn Mark edit. So I can do my big batch edits again.

B

J

The upcoming plug for the upcoming KOA us conference, one of my sessions in the breakouts, is how to set up Frameworks in cohaw authorized values and how to use Mark edit to batch edit. Your item types so one sessions just on workflows and then another session is on. This is how you do it more Interactive, helping every bring your computer and your records and we will have a batch editing party. That's the goal so come to the US conference.

B

Yeah, when I've done uh presentations on Mark edit uh for people who don't know anything about it, I use my knife Rack. In my kitchen thing, it's like a Swiss army knife I think it can do a few things. It actually does an awful lot more, but today we're just discussing these two things.

A

And it also comes with a super helpful user community and super helpful developer. Terry Reese is terrific. He.

B

Never sleeps he.

A

He seems to never sleep and he speaks okay. Foreign.

K

Who's starting to help with um the like cataloging side of stuff, so basically um it also goes back to kind of Cohen. Okay, so.

G

We do have kova.

K

G

K

For various things, so, basically we're doing a project right now, where we have a bunch of basically it's cereals, and what we're trying to do is a lot of these things. We have we're basically checking our records record. Have a bunch of these they're already in coma um they're there, it's basically, what we're trying to do now is we're checking to see, if they're in I'm, starting to use a connection um just dipping.

H

K

In um so I'm trying to find out, if there's a so.

G

Basically, right.

K

Now there's some things: we have local Holdings in connection, but a lot of stuff. Potentially, like hundreds of things, do you know if there's some way that you can I've.

G

Seen that there's ways.

K

To move things from connections is there a way to do it like the opposite way, because right now, basically we're doing literally everything by hand manually, and it's taken. It's really slow.

C

I would go through a CLC for that yeah, a Reconciliation program. That's free! The first time they'll run your entire database and match to oclc records.

C

Then it's up to you to keep your Holdings up to date. Okay,.

K

Thank you because I'll.

G

K

K

When I started doing this, I'm like.

C

So if you're using connection I would go up into the help and support area and contact oclc support, they're, very good about helping you use their own program.

A

Yes and I know many libraries that have done the Reclamation project and it's it's a really good thing to do. Connection client also has some batch searching and batch operations, but go for this sort of thing on that scale. I've heard the Reclamation project is really good.

K

B

uh It just texted or put something in the chat I'm, also a medical librarian working, a very small Medical Library, and we don't really worry about cereals too much. But I put my email address in. If you need any thing that I might be able to help with.

G

B

B

You can get a lot of records from z3950 from nlm and they don't throttle it like Elsa. He does.

K

Yeah I think you appreciate that.

A

So does anybody else have anything they'd like to bring to the group.

B

Well, no one else will uh I brought this up, I think it last month's general meeting I'm staging Mark records and then importing into the catalog the screen sort of takes me to odd places. Yeah it doesn't show a lot of progress. It just goes records, updated and then blank and then, if you 30 seconds later, if you hit F5 it'll finally refresh and give you the information- and sometimes it is, you know, go to job list. Well, that's not really where I wanted to go. I wanted to go back to cataloging.

B

Uh-Huh haven't been able to write down exactly what's happening, but if not really a glitch, but a bump.

F

So Fred I'm experiencing that too I'm in Acquisitions and so I import. A lot of batch records and I found with 2111 I ended up writing to buy water because um I'm like look. There are extra steps. I can't see now what I just import it used to list everything that I imported and now you're right, there's like job details. There are two other things you can click on and it's not always where you want to go. So it's a little bit frustrating for me. Yes,.

B

I'm glad I'm not.

G

F

Things are supposed to get better with upgrades right, but not more complicated.

F

A

My one thing, I I, haven't really done, is actually praise anything in 2011, but I really do like the new interface I, really love the new cataloging home page. There were a lot of things that were under Tools that seemed really cataloging. So it's so nice having those together, I, I and I said I, say: I'm I'm, loving, 2211 I wouldn't go back.

A

I think it's just. It was so huge that, and there was so many things in it- that there were a lot of little minors, speed bumps or things is like okay. This is all great, but now foreign.

C

There's that piece about usability and being able to see the actual buttons that we really lost this time, um I'm just retired, so I have bold eyes and us old eye. People can't see those little bitty things, as you noted, Heather I mean I, would never I had not found that piece in the search, so that I would go out of go out of authorities and go back in I'd, be able to use the thing, but the second search didn't work.

C

It was so annoying and I've been closing a lot of death dates, so fortunately I lucked out when I was working on personal names, but the stuff about going through and searching for duplicate authorities in the topicals no way, and the report for duplicate authorities has some interesting um bits.

C

So qualify that they need someone who actually isn't able to see very well to look at their at their new interface before it goes up.

A

Yeah I think the ratio of like when I've I've enlarged my browser window yeah turned up the resolution, but the say looking at in the staff interface, looking at the record in the normal View it it's text is then so large and then the surrounding search bar top bar sidebar things are tiny, I. Think I with you know older eyes. I would have appreciated a little bit larger on the top and size ratio to the normal view, because I don't want the normal view like screaming at me.

A

Large large, so I can't see it, but in that that's not easily customizable to me, you know telling the parts of the screen, but overall once I know where everything is and I get it kind of the way I like it I'm liking the features of 2211, better I. Think chiefly because of what's in that when I go to cataloging, what's there for me all one place as someone in tech services.

B

I really like the ability to add a second tab to the main OPEC screen, so news.

A

You can also create custom search facets to put in, and they show up at the top of your facet.

A

So if you find, if your users are and- and you can pick I want this in the staff, client or I want it in the OPAC. So if you're users are going to Advanced, Search and selecting the same things over and over, you can create like a custom, something custom that way and put it up on top of your facets. So that then your users could use something like keyword with that facet keyword with that facet and it is faster.

H

Okay, going back to the workflow issue with batch deletion uh that our memory, that I was trying to make that more user friendly and I I pulled that up in my test server and it looks like it's still sort of.

G

H

But I can show you what I did to sort of alleviate. Some of that. Yes,.

G

H

So this one um so I added with some jQuery a little box here that holds the job ID off of this link and runs it into a report in this link so that I can click here and see what items actually deleted, which is still not as good as it used to be because it used to be all displayed on this page and I agree. That's not that's! Not user friendly! It's extra clicks, however, um but I'm realizing I left that unfinished, because there's a little spinning thing here.

H

That's supposed to tell me how many items were deleted and it's just been spinning forever, um but yeah I agree with you all. That's frustrating it's like adding extra I hate when they add extra clicks, like that's that's backwards, progress but I understand it. In this case, I mean the the reason it's doing. That is because they're cueing those jobs in the background now, instead of doing it at the point you you press the button which helps resource management and it lets you like.

H

Let things like there's lots of processes running in Kauai at one time so lets things go in an order that doesn't bog down your systems, but um from a user standpoint it. It is a little frustrating and I've gotten lots of complaints from my Librarians about not being able to see what they've just done without more clicks.

I

We've actually had a lot of complaints from our circulation desks about how slow this new upgrade is. I I, don't know if anybody else has experienced that, but it's we've been trying a lot of different things. You, yes, I see some head snotting yeah.

A

Ours, ours is even it's not super slow, but it's noticeably slower.

F

Well, so I think this came up on another meeting as well. I wasn't sure if it was this group but um yeah koha, we keep getting the spinning circles and, um and sometimes it'll be held there for actually three minutes.

F

um You know, and we have patrons coming up to the desk um I heard that they had moved to AWS at one point we didn't know but they're not finding anything on their end, we're documenting everything how long it's escaping um and they can't find anything. But other groups have said they've had issues as well, so I'm not sure. What's going on yeah.

E

That's strange because we keep telling them uh by water is our supplier, and it seems like we're the only people that have slowness. It seems that way. The way that we're talking to them is like it's only affecting you. It's only you guys. It's your your you're, the problem.

A

Actually, no okay.

F

A

Of us who are supported by buy water, tell by water, I hadn't told Bywater, because it's it's not huge, but I will tell by water yeah.

F

D

Everyone everyone Yeah Yeah. We actually went to the expense of upgrading our internet speed with our two suppliers um and it's still they're still saying at circulation, particularly that it's like six seconds between you know, I mean they're, checking out piles of of books and six seconds doesn't sound too much. But when you're doing.

G

H

D

The self check yeah, the self-check um patrons, are going off with piles of books and half of them are.

C

D

Out because they don't know to to wait so um we're thinking of installing or having those sounds activated at at least if they can do it at the self-check. There's some like audio cue but um yeah, please let Bywater know we can we can share our ticket number um I. Don't know whether you're allowed to do that but I'm happy to because we're.

A

D

B

Is a whale guest and I'm sure by water have considered it I'm not supported by buy water or anybody uh when I installed elasticsearch uh my uh incidents wouldn't work anymore until I upgraded to from two to four gigs of RAM. Would it be that the new KOA needs where I am.

E

B

Think someone would have mentioned it by now.

E

Yeah they um they upped our Ram, also um a few other things and gave us more rack space um as well. So they said that they were working it on their end, but um again it uh the way like we just met with our support person, and it was really like we're the only ones experiencing it. So um it certainly makes us seem like something's wrong with our setup or something so um it's nice to hear that others are experiencing the issue, but uh yeah they did up our Ram.

E

Definitely I'll find the ticket, because I know that okay.

D

Yeah I have the ticket number here. I, don't know whether this is legal or not to share it, but we're at our wits and and as I said, we went to the expense of upping internet speed, which we were overdue anyway, so I've put in the ticket number here. If anybody wants to reference us I think that's the ticket number Michelle. Can you double check please?

D

um But you know it's we're a tourist destination so summer our population triples quadruples, Cape Cod, you know, Cape Cod, Martha's, Vineyard, Nantucket and um you know Bywater has done all of what Michelle mentioned. We've upped our infinite speed and people are still complaining. One thing we told Circ staff to do was um uncheck. You know that box have I, got the image saved. Let me see if I have no, it's.

I

A box that shows all the checkouts as you're as you're checking material out.

D

So we've told them to keep that unchecked, but of course they're not doing it. You know if they keep the box unchecked, it seems to help a little um it's where they they can see each checkout. um So.

H

Is anyone else using that box yeah? We we leave that up, but, like so you're, seeing it in self-checkout but you're also seeing it in the staff client. Oh.

D

Yeah yeah both.

H

But at one point it was made to work where you just keep going like you rip it. You scan, scan, scan, scan and it'll catch up, because that table doesn't have to reload every time right to log the checkout. Oh.

D

Like we were told it has to reload every time weren't, we am I dreaming that.

I

Is taking the Box prevents it from reloading every time that was the idea, but but.

H

Even if you have that box checked or even if you're showing the table, it should like be able to pick up the checkouts like without letting it like. Reload like you.

I

Should yeah they're they're claiming that things are missed because they go too fast, I, don't know yeah, okay, yeah.

H

That's happening with.

F

This as well, so it keeps spinning Jason and it, and so it's not it's not in a mode where it can accept anything and I, just like to clarify that this was happening um before we switched over to 2211 as well um and again we're documenting everything like where we are and I will, and this is happening not just at our location. We have a bookmobile too it's happening too and another Library location, because we thought that was just our our library, like our set location. So something has to be going on so.

D

What, where are you at Christy.

F

uh We're in Monterey Monterey California.

D

And it's a Public Library, Consortium or Public.

F

Library Public Library and we just share our. um We share koha um our with another Library. So it's kind of a Consortium.

D

And have you reported it to? Oh, you said you have documentaries, yeah.

G

I mean we're we're.

F

At the point where we're standing find anything they're like we can't find anything nothing's wrong on our end and it's.

I

Like sounds familiar, yeah.

D

It I I I thought it just happened to us for 2211, but Michelle says no. It was happening before, but the reason it's kind of gaining momentum with our libraries is because they're now getting busier and they they're finding it hard to cope so um I guess we could try what Jason said just tell them to keep scanning, but things are being missed.

H

Yeah so I found the original, so this is something that we helped develop. This is a real old bug that talks about converting that checkout to um an Ajax data table so that you can so it would speed up the checkout process.

H

So there's the history on how it should work is in that bug um and if that's not what you're, seeing or you're seeing that things are getting missed when you're getting it that way, then I think that is a valid bug and I'm concerned, because we haven't upgraded yet, but I mean if it was happening before you upgraded I need this I need to like sit down and really test it. Here, too, I'll.

E

Just read just a second of we got this email in over the weekend about the self-check and it's a very funny guy. um We should call ourselves checkout machine Oak because it Bluffs now they're from Oak Bluffs. So he's talking about that. The self machine lies um it's Marco from Oak Bluffs. Our self check machine is a liar patrons, will occasionally scan books and get a. This item cannot be checked out at the station error.

E

um But for some reason, if you go back to the account summary, you see that the checkout has indeed checked out. So it's checking out it's telling them it isn't um so the computer says it's not doing one thing that it actually is doing uh and I've uh verified myself. Can anyone fix this so that that was one issue of the self-check? Is they're actually producing error messages when it is going through? So that's a little different than the regular checkout is so slow that things are actually getting skipped.

H

Are you using sip connected self-checks or are you using the co-host self check.

E

That that have uh third-party software but most used Co-op. These are the kohal libraries, so.

D

It's a variation in oak bluff's case. The system is lying, which is hilarious, but the items are actually checked out, but then we have other places like Harwich and places like that that have a high speed internet where patrons are bringing back stuff that they checked out on self-check and they've never been checked out. So it's it's like the wild west out there I mean I, don't.

A

Know I'm going to suggest a few things: uh let's all who are by water customers tell by water about our slowness, because I know that, with our 2211 upgrade, our system got slower in all areas, I'm using noticeably um also I'm gonna tell by water. They should watch this portion of the recording and look at the chat. Also people who are not by water customers who have upgraded to 2211 are your systems also slower, please, you know, take a look also.

A

uh Those of you take yours, take these Circ issues to the uh circulation and Public Services Group too, because they have a different area of experience than the rest of us.

B

Perfect and apparently the fifth admin and certainly general meeting.

D

Yes, we bring it up at every meeting. We go to yes, good good.

G

B

If we do three checkouts a day, that's an awful lot.

D

Yeah I was convinced it was since 20 to 11., but at this point it's all mushed together. So we're not even sure because.

I

We've been here, we've.

D

Been hearing more about it since we went to 2211. so I suspect it has something to do with that, but I could be wrong, but also we're standing on our open ticket. We're now going to load a video um because you can explain until the cows come home. So sorry, that's an irishism, probably but.

A

No, we use that here too. Okay,.

D

Good, sometimes I forget, uh so we have one Library, who is very happy to do little videos and we're adding those to the ticket. So a visual always helps I feel.

F

They did comment I forget which one of you just comment on the elastic search. Maybe it was Jason um that they they said they resolved the problem with the elasticsearch server and they wondered if that had resolved our issue, but it it did not.

I

Yeah I think that came up for us too. Didn't it Michelle.

E

um I know we're on version six or whatever, and it needs to be upgraded to eight. Is that what the problem is I think it came up at another cataloging meeting uh I want to hear that elasticsearch was incompatible at some point.

E

B

I, forget them: yeah I, think I, don't know if I brought it up, but it was brought up. I. Think at the last general meeting, um Lauren I think you shine. Bendy I.

J

Was the one who brought it up.

B

J

um They've, some of it was they did they date the documentation in on the bugs that were there, so I think it has been updated, but I think there may still be an ish I, don't know if the issue has completely been resolved because I don't understand a lot of the words they're using um this is another one of those times where they go into text, speak mode and I'm, like huh sure yeah, whatever you say, um and let our it guy talk with the koha community, because I've got no clue other than I want it and I'm waiting patiently, though, at this point, I'm like we're hoping to upgrade in the fall so I'm like I'll, just wait until we upgrade.

J

Let's you know, handle one big thing at a time.

B

I hope it's straightened out soon, because apparently I'm doing a presentation on elasticsearch, along with Nick.

K

A

We have one thing that just someone asking whatever happened to hashtag mashcat did.

E

You get you didn't know about this um well years ago.

E

um I think Galen, actually LED it from um Equinox or something or Evergreen and mash cat is that system, administrators and catalogers would meet and hang out and go out for drinks and stuff, and it was just so. You could actually speak the same language because yeah we're always speaking different languages and it was. It was a way to bring catalogers and sis admin together.

E

It hasn't happened in years, but yeah. It was funny that I saw uh Galen pops up on on the the bugs all the time when yeah I used to see him at those things. So we should bring that back. Learn the language again.

A

Well, we're at the top of the hour um I wanted to thank everyone for coming. I want to mention too we're going to have um a another July, catalog or special interest group on July 27th later in the day for those who the morning doesn't work so drop in if you'd like and I want to thank everybody for coming and I'm going to stop the recording.