Kubernetes Steering Committee, 7 Nov 2018

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From YouTube: Steering Committee 20181107

Description

Notes: http://bit.ly/k8s-steering-wd

Chat transcript (times may be off):

00:18:52 briangrant: https://github.com/kubernetes/steering/issues/31
00:27:54 Aaron of SIG Beard: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qazwMIHGeF3iUh5xMJIJ6PDr-S3bNkT8tNLRkSiOkOU/edit# - agenda
00:45:55 Sarah Novotny: Apologies all. I need to drop. As penance, feel free to assign me things.
00:59:20 Timothy St. Clair: pinging on gluster issue.
00:59:40 Dims: Tim, see https://github.com/heketi/heketi/issues/1279

A

A

A

I all do you think we'll get quorum.

B

I saw only one regret so far: it which was Derek okay,.

A

Because it's 10 p.m. here and I'm jet lag.

B

Are you doing dims I'm doing by the way I'm.

A

Talking to Tim a lot but haven't seen you in a while yeah there's Brandon how's it going. Sir, are you when you're like attic or something at least like five, your basement, okay, I.

C

See the laundry machine here we go cylinder machine.

A

This is the great thing with working with a bunch of remote folks. You could see like all the places their home 3d.

C

Printer, oh, we got over here like.

A

C

A

Is basement all the time, but he just remodeled this basement. So it's actually really nice dinger, look like you're kind of in a spare bedroom type area, maybe yeah.

B

My main module is off then this is on top of the garage. So it's like a small areas.

B

A

Joey Styles it from hotel rooms and.

B

A

Brian, are you in a real office? Are you Pam?

A

It looks like there's some interesting wall behind you, oh yeah, that's the classic, Google frosted glass, going on there. This.

D

Is a behind me is like carpet on the wall for sound-dampening? Oh nice,.

B

Wow, okay yeah. They.

A

Don't put carpet on the ceiling like Graceland. Have you ever been to Graceland? It is like, if you're ever in Memphis, it's totally worth going to yeah.

D

Some other kind of titles on the ceiling.

A

D

I think are also sound-dampening, but yeah. It helps a lot makes it not sound. Like a concrete echo chamber.

E

Come on brushed concrete and hard glass for me, thanks.

F

D

Till are you an mp3 yeah I am I'm down an RFID. If you aren't enough yeah.

G

G

So, while we're waiting, we can play guess what that poster is in the background over there I.

A

Gotta zoom in here I gotta I, can get second here.

G

No zooming, that's cheating, I,.

E

Don't know that the thin gap there makes me think it's Westeros and Essos Game of Thrones with an arrow see it.

G

Is it, is he actually got it.

A

My favorite, those that George has like his sons like Thomas the Tank Engine in the background and like every time he moves his office around, he always makes sure is that he has like Tom's sort of position just on the edge of the camera frame.

A

We got seven, let's quorum, but you can get a few more minutes should.

D

We be anybody, I can ping Sarah.

D

Sarah was wrong. Ask me anything this morning. I was.

A

Gonna dial under that buzzer dinner.

A

Right now, where was it I, don't know stole the conference.

A

Yeah all this chatter I post this stuff when I post, if he goes folks, can listen to us waste time. Re-Recording.

D

A

I have this one set up to record automatically when you log in in case I, don't dial in to avoid those whole like who has closed mutation, type of things, I.

A

Don't think I'm dying here.

D

Sarah said she's joining, but her laptop started us on for update or something so it still she'll be joining shortly.

A

E

Can take notes this time but I'm in kind of an echo chamber today, so I, don't think I'd be a good person to have an open mic and run the meeting.

A

And beyond the future topics yeah.

E

Like I'm happy to take notes and not run, if somebody else wants to run what I just scraped through last week say eyes, we have a lot. I didn't do very many of mine, I, don't know about y'all and we have the board and that's all that I was aware of.

D

Yeah and in terms of charters, siga apps has a charter up that I'm planning to review.

D

Right now, because of the 1.13 release and the cube cons coming up, I just have a lot of other project related stuff to do right now, Brian.

A

Are you gonna be go to China, no.

A

You're gonna go Aaron, yep I'm.

C

There too, sweet it's gonna, be awesome, actually heard m50 I'm gonna go check out n50, which is like some artists, collective thing in Shanghai, it's supposed to be cool cool, I.

H

Would try to tag along but I'm there for like 30 hours, I'm.

C

Only there for three days but I still look like I got to do something other than.

D

Yeah, and so in terms of upcoming meetings, they're gonna be interleaved with the to keep cons. Is there anything specific? We want to do in preparation for those events or- and we have the contributor summit at Seattle. I took a look at the agenda. Yesterday, ish looked pretty reasonable with parallel current contributor and new contributor tracks.

A

F

Anything you know.

A

Specific that we want the steering committee to do do we have a session there. Brian or you know, I don't have the agenda. Yes,.

E

We have I think we have like a Q&A at the very end of the Seattle contributor summit. So place is kind of quieted down. Because do you want to start running a.

F

Meeting with an agenda.

E

But so, let's, just let's start with the coop con stuff, so two weeks from today is going to be kind of close to the Thanksgiving holiday for a bunch of people. Do we want to hold this meeting or do we want to cancel this.

F

E

Don't know what that had not means. Tim, sorry.

A

Probably cancel how about we cancel, but then we we somebody taking action item just send email to poke everybody on their action items. Yeah.

D

I will be out on that day, I.

A

Think it'd be nice to be able to at least beat the drum on sort of making progress on some of these things, even if we don't meet so if somebody did do something at least they'd have to fess up and say, I didn't do it. Okay,.

E

So then I think that means the next time we will actually meet would be our face-to-face meeting at kcon, North, America or sorry it'll be the contributor summit. Where we're gonna talk about stuff.

D

December 5th meeting on the schedule do we want to have that one is there that would be great I would totally fine with that.

D

Well, I think that would be the next one. Yes,.

A

D

I'll be heading to Seattle on the Sunday on the 9th okay.

E

I'd like to run us through our a eyes from last time in our project board and then the time remaining. We could talk about like what we want to have prepped for that that December 5th meeting and maybe start thinking about in person itself sound good to everybody. Okay, cool I have like a billion windows here. So give me a second before I find a phone.

C

Do we have someone who's boasting did I or any way, I.

E

Can do that oh I can I can bosun like this or do it if.

C

You'd rather mute I can do it. I don't have background noise here, yeah.

E

Please go for it so posting us through they as a top, but just since I'm on the first two I. Don't have any next steps: Risa projects, it's I, need to go and talk to Steven, Augustus or somebody and talk to sake, contributing experience about how to best like denote sub project owners with friendly human consumable contact info.

E

We are all agreed that some projects definitely have to have owners files, because projects represent the ownership of resources, be that code are documents that describe process, but people don't like digging through owner's files to figure out who they need to contact, I, think anybody who's been through Sega Architecture and had a discussion of their some projects recently. Can sympathize with that. So I will attempt to work on that they're, probably not in the next week by December 5th. They should have something there same thing with moving sync role: stuff into the other governance doc.

E

There were two Doc's and Kay community called cig governance, and one of them seemed to be more about the logistics of. How do you create a cig as a contributor experienced person like what are all the mailing lists and channels and people you have to have the other one was more like roles and responsibilities.

E

What are typical, recurring duties of the sake, so I will get that out and I will need steering committee review of that, because I will be updating the sig governance, template that we're having all the charters point to I think they'll work on both of those dots so might.

D

Be a good reviewer all.

E

I

Sounds great, so, okay, you.

C

All may take over yeah all right cool since I actually have the next two. um Both sig asier and sig windows now have charters merged, so yeah.

C

Okay, Joe pinging, sig, AWS, yeah.

A

So we I mean we got.

A

Some feedback I think that's been addressed. You know by end a week, I'll try and do another turn review on that and I think. If it's addressed I'll just merge, it I think there is a there's, a sort of point of order. Around sort of I thought it was fair just to give everybody sort of a last call on the email list on this and I think that probably brought air in what is the process that we want to do in terms of getting these things merged I was.

E

Like fast, you know we'll.

A

Always find something in it: I found stuff at someplace before I call it emerging. You know so.

E

Hang on I had actually been watching that one oh yeah.

A

So that one was not yeah.

E

Yeah that wasn't in response to that I really appreciate the last call and actually Brendon the windows Charter merged without anybody from steering committee at really having reviewed it, except for yourself. Oh that's, right, I feel, like somebody totally forgot to like follow up on that. I commented on the PR art, but I feel like whoever signed up to review. That charter needs to actually go and make sure it's okay, yeah I mean it's literally.

C

A dead almost a dead copy of like the template, so I think it's fine, but I'm.

E

C

That other people look yeah I forgot, it's I forgot to add the hold at the beginning. When I did the PR I should have been slash, hold and then the minute it got. Someone put an LG TM on it and went right through because I have a pursuers so yeah. That was my mistake.

A

Yeah, all right so I think we're really close on the AWS stuff. Oh oh, you know it all. It's reasonable I'm gonna call that one done but I'll make sure I take another. You know look over it before I before I say so.

A

Unless anybody here has objections, I.

E

Think what I was trying to get you Nishi to to talk to you on the AWS thing? For what it's worth is? She was trying to be really specific about which jobs they do and don't own and I'm.

E

Just kind of I want to make sure that if AWS isn't taking responsibility for any and all tests that run on AWS that they're a little more specific about what jobs they are taking responsibility for just from a like test and job ownership perspective and because I didn't think she wanted to say yeah literally any job that runs on AWS is covered under sig AWS cuz I did not think they were taking ownership of cops, but I don't know well.

A

I think the ownership of cops is still TBD I. You know my gut here. Is that, like what we really want to do is have tests roll up to a sub-project and then have that sub-project have ownership from a sig and sort of bring it in that way.

A

The I think there's still an open question on cops here that we weren't going to try and resolve in the Charter that was going to be resolved and in the as we sort of you know, continue evolve since Dom, oh yeah,.

G

That's kind of technically a cluster lexical project. It is, it is a sub-project of question per second yeah Jason Justin's reports not regularly the details.

E

So maybe all I'm asking for she's just awfully specific when she answered back 3% of the jobs, are covered I'm like well you if you know that specificity, you probably know which ones you're talking about. Let's, let's list that I.

A

May merge this just to get it in and then say: hey can you file another PR that just sort of brings some clarity on this just to try and sort of close some of these things off yeah.

D

I mean it could be that I they're just starting to get involved in the community as well, so they may not be super familiar with what happens, we're and they have multiple hats. You know they're, presumably going to contribute to cluster lifecycle, also so yeah. It may not be clear to them. So we made me just suggest something: I.

A

Think there's good faith going on here, but I'll take a look at it. It looks reasonable, look at it. Otherwise, I'll work with Ishita to get that address.

E

Okay, yeah cool. That's that everything else looked reasonable to me. I just wanted to try and help safeguard them from being overly prodding which jobs people with ping them for yeah.

A

We can always adjust this stuff later. I mean that's not you know it's not written in stone.

E

Right so I'm, the next one ping sig p.m. have not sorry about that. We'll try again later Timms.

B

Yeah, the sig network is ready. There are two LG GM's I think other people can take a quick look and then we can merge. It I think.

A

B

A

Lazy consensus quark take another one.

J

B

uh What's the typical time we.

A

Got to figure out.

E

A

E

Was the other steering committee member who stressed to review this one aside from dims, we usually had two people assigned to all of these. They were called out in.

E

J

Find it yeah, there was one more BR: no, there was a doc or something.

E

Phillips, okay,.

E

So if we can get philip style GT in that, then yeah.

B

So for the next one.

B

Aaron, you wrote the you wrote a document on how to wind down stuff right working groups and six so I need to see if we can follow the process to shut down the OpenStack stuff. Yes much already, I.

E

Lady I think I just said something about if we could wind it down in the event of inactivity, I don't know about things in general, you're you're, also reminding me that the broader question of merging sake cloud, specific SIG's into a seed cloud provider, was a fun and active discussion. During the most recent state cloud provider, meeting and I accidently think I had you and someone else we're supposed to follow up on that I.

J

B

Make it to that meeting so yeah can.

G

I just have some clarification: yeah.

B

G

So it's like here for you look at so there's not participation in the OpenStack saying. Surely there's a lot of code there a lot.

B

Of integration reasons right, there is code, there are people working. There are owners, files and stuff like that, but then I think the what we had talked about at the beginning was when we set up the cloud provider, we said that we we can fold things back in, for example, we are not having regular meetings in the signal from stack, so that was one indicator to say that okay, there is work happening both in the cluster provider as well as the club. It's just that you're not having any regular meetings so.

G

Is the are you consolidating then versus winding down, because I think language matters all right? So what do we change consolidating then or something? Okay, okay, yeah.

E

That's where there was just so much discussion around what is consolidation mean in the context of sig cloud provider? Do we wants a cloud provider to be this fat sig that has every single sub project, as is anything to do with a cloud, or is it just the cloud provider repos and should individual cloud sig still have some kind of ownership of all of their sub projects? Sig AWS would be a great example, since it has things like the application load.

E

Balancer and the I am Authenticator sub project which had inherited from Pepsi, oh right so like should all of those go to sig cloud provider as well or see.

G

Like I think some projects, or even some groups, can have multiple repos associated with it like bidi M does, and the club and API machinery does so, if you're a sub project- and you have things that fall underneath an umbrella or some project, it seems totally reasonable to have multiple repos associated with it. So AWS sub project of cloud provider sig could easily have. Although some projects associate with in cluster lifecycle has been an example of a sig that has doesn't have any problem with some projecting out different.

E

Groups, yeah I agree, that's the model I proposed and then, if you wanted to get really imaginative, you could say well, but we're forcing SIG's to have either tech leads make the decision about one new sub project should get created or new code should be made the responsibility of the sig or we're allowing sub project owners to vote, and so what?

E

If this ends up in a scenario where, like Google and Microsoft, all the OpenStack people gang up and prevent Amazon from adding any new sub projects, for example, because we create a voting block or something well.

A

Number one like again: there's always you know the appeal to the steering committee for this stuff. You know number two, there's nothing to prevent that state from writing a charter that says well. We have certain special type of sub project which are routes on projects and they can create sub sub projects. You know to sort of empower those things to happen right, so you know they. You know there might be a special sort of governance model that makes sense for the for the cloud providers say yeah.

D

Ok, it's already it's already the case that there's not a one-to-one mapping between sub products and repos can sub project can have as many repose as they want. Api machinery has a gazillion repos and not all of them are independent sub projects right.

B

One more wrinkle here, for example, is the cluster provider for a api api provider for OpenStack is under the cluster lifecycle sake. So that's one more, you know wrinkle here so yeah I I would definitely go for a workgroup, sorry, not about a sub-project in cloud provider for OpenStack and then consolidated the repositories there. I think that would be a good model. Alright,.

E

I, don't think we need to rathole on it here, but I did at least want to have the conversation of if we're cool with cloud provider. If, as part of this, consolidation needs to have something above and beyond the standard template- and this is one case where that makes sense, Timms and possibly myself can iterate on that.

E

That group is happy and if they're happy run it through this yeah.

B

Let's talk: go back to the cig, blowpro return and propose a bin and see if they have any pushback.

G

Yeah I think over time the grant consolidation would be good. Just it's natural, because I think there's eat too many SIG's provider space right, yeah.

B

Ok, so the next one, how many PRS are blocked by CLA signing right now, it's 15 but I haven't counted the PRS that automatically close and when it times out by the bot so I, that's.

D

Tracking that, because you're violating TCO versus you, like yeah,.

B

Just one more data point there, one.

D

More data point is that the CNC f got feedback. The DCO is too painful from other projects and, though, in the latest contributor survey, okay,.

D

You can ask me: Santosh is ik what the form or date on that Sara may have I've.

H

Got I've got it to actually follow the letter of the law and the DCO every commit has to have something written at the bottom of it specifically certifying that.

H

So it's just it's a different model, and it's there's also the point that many corporate lawyers, because there's no there's no case law on DCO, are very leery of considering DCO, and this is across a variety of companies. So there is work being done by the new platform specialist at the linux foundation or platform vp or whatever the heck is name is or his title is to improve the CLA and CC la experience. So he was, he said he should have a demo of it shortly and I should be talking to him tomorrow.

H

So I can get more info on that.

A

Sounds good, it's a single command line, flag on git commit, but alright, but.

H

It's on every commit, oh.

G

A

E

A

F

To use get better is not.

E

The friendliest thing to say to new contributors.

A

You know I yeah, it's not trivial, you know it's not zero. Yeah.

E

So maybe this is outside of the scope, but I continue to ask when an open-source version of the CNCs CLA signing process so.

H

This this is the thing that I'm trying to talk to the platform guy at the Linux Foundation, like I, said tomorrow, I will have more info after that cool.

E

Right I cannot say enough nice things about the responsiveness of their help desk. That would be great.

B

I was going to second that yesterday somebody pinged me and I asked them to send an email out within 5-10 minutes. They were all set so yeah, ok, good feedback I mean quick feedback from them, so they.

H

Should be going to help desk correct.

B

Exactly yeah so then the next one is we did talk about extraction of OpenStack and other things in the sick architecture. So that's done and the last one is the work group for Kate's infra. We haven't done that yet Aaron you and me I.

E

Have linked the relevant portion of the video that we need to watch and figure out how to wordsmith around I just haven't gotten to it. Okay, so until this week, yeah.

B

That's all I had.

C

F

C

Moving forward um quick question: oh no! That's from last last week. The way you want to approve working groups, that's not an action item, so I think we're done with action items. Should we go through the board, yeah I.

G

Inserted a quick question just a yes-or-no thing, because we got Pingdom. Yes,.

E

G

Sorry, last week's I thought for some reason. This is last week's notes: nevermind yeah. It's.

E

G

Of our prompt, that's documented.

E

In WG governance that every stakeholder sig needs to have a chair, LG TM, and the majority of the steering committee needs to that. This is what caused me to bring the 8 infra working group proposal to the steering committee two weeks ago is I needed to get a majority of you to say yes and I. Think when we left it was.

E

You were all okay with it, but Brian wanted us to make the Charter soundless sick like so we were going to do that if Brian was satisfied or Phillips had felt like, we had met Brian Simmons Phillips gonna be the proxy majority vote for us.

C

Do we I mean I, guess this? Is we don't know we're gonna open a can of worms, but do we really think it's worth our time to review every single working group.

I

Thus far, we've only had to do one, but there's a lot more working groups than that. Okay, I did.

D

Used to be very unclear, who is the decider right, so there would just be round and round discussions and, depending on the people who are pursuing it, whether they gave up or just pushed it through silently like was basically you know, pretty arbitrary, so I think having some kind of process as we learn what's important and what's not important and it's good for now. If we decide well, it's not worth it and it's going the way we want, then we can say we're it's not necessary anymore and I. Think that's! Okay.

D

H

We get a few examples and possibly even a template up. It makes it a lot simpler to say: do it like that yeah.

D

I think right now, there's still enough confusion about what should be a working group versus what should be a sig versus whatever that it's helpful just they know just at least make a look and say yeah. This makes sense this working group or no. This actually should just be a sub project or something else then.

G

We need to start triaging the inbound for next time, because there's a couple that are pending on us right now, I know.

E

Lts is the only other ones that I'm aware of what else is there Tim I? Don't.

G

E

C

At my back line.

G

C

G

One I was thinking of there's.

C

The note the note this one is: that's gonna be a real pump right. Yeah, that's gonna get reopened yeah. So that's gonna come.

B

Yeah, the LTS one, it's almost ready and I, don't know if it's fully ready yet yeah.

D

I was planning to take a look and, in general yeah a lot of stuff needs to be fixed and releases. I, don't know what they mean by LTS yeah.

B

That's what they were going to figure out Brian. It.

E

Is shorter than tlvs or not to LCS disputing at ease, and what does it mean LTS? It.

E

Okay, brother back to you, I think we can do the board.

C

All right, cool, where's, the right tab, all right in progress, formalized sub-project subprojects- is that still in progress, yeah.

E

So that was my action item to like nope. It's better still, working on that and.

C

The same thing for document working groups right that okay.

C

C

Steering committee liaisons- that's also when yours Aaron, is that that's also I.

D

I

The work exact- yes, oh.

D

Sure yeah, so we didn't merge a PR on documenting working group formation process and there's a little bit there about when they get disbanded. Is there something about? We.

E

Wanted to see there there had been some discussion about whether or not we wanted working groups to have to touch SIG's or have sig chairs. As a formal point of contact, it seems like we want that considering we say that the affected six chairs Mostel GTMO working groups charter, so there was a desire to add fields for a working group to say like what's sakes, they are related to or touch in six animals.

E

So that way, you're looking at a working groups page, you know which sakes are involved in this or, conversely, if I'm in sake, release what other working groups are tangentially touch with me.

D

Update this item to say, document how to attach or relate sakes to working groups.

E

I had retitled it I'm. Just looking at the latest comment on the issue, you I said: I retitled it because the scope looks like it had grown and Phil. You have some follow-up PR hard working group stuff that I think I was happy to.

E

D

So yeah, besides that I'm aware of that thing, I was just wondering I. Think.

E

That's it I know right. There was anybody else here, has any more clarifying questions or process for working groups. I think.

D

B

Brian, we can't hear you sorry.

D

I think there's some cleanup of some existing groups that should really be sub projects, or one thing that should really be a working group and things like that, but we can decouple it from the working group. Is you overall.

C

All right are we already done so? The issue stays open is the consensus that I'm hearing correct yeah. She stays open and I'm updating the description to target and stays in progress, not blocked. Yeah, okay, Aaron codify steering committee leaves answer SIG's into SIG's IMO assume, that's still ongoing charters, Mehta issue still ongoing we're getting closer I guess I know: do we have a list of the charters that haven't merged I? Guess we can look, commit yeah.

D

It's in it's in the middle I, just I, just added a link to the sig apps charter, which I'm gonna look at I poked, the sig, the other SIG's, that my name is attached to GCP and hni machinery and docks need to remember whether they responded none of them ever lee started yet GCP might get folded into cloud providers. So that's what they're currently thinking about.

C

D

C

Windows is no urged, although that was the one that merged limited review yeah. It has Phillips and myself.

E

Listed for getting her to review that so, let's.

C

Move it into a pile and at this I guess that here is our. We touch.

E

It yesterday are we pushing to have all of these done before cake on I. Don't.

D

Think that's gonna happen. Yeah.

C

We're getting close I wish you keep pushing on it. I don't see any reason not to keep pushing on it, but like I, don't know that we're gonna necessarily good I would.

A

Love to be able to announce, yeah, I think you've come contributor summit that we have all that yeah.

E

Can you can you help me understand, which ones are the really really tricky ones here that were afraid of I? Don't.

C

Think there's any tricks right, it's just getting somebody to do it.

D

We redid it using the templates and didn't help document all the sub projects and that merged. So if I prove the Charter, Quentin asked to hold it for a while, but not he didn't say why.

E

Well, so technically Jo you're listed as a reviewer for that I guess, if you're happy with it and then it seems like I can merge.

D

And it's basically the template with the Federation of sub projects. Well: okay, okay,.

A

I'll make sure I get that this weekend or in a week, but.

D

The goal was just a smart start, simple and focus on the sub projects that we're trying to execute on Brian.

B

There was one thing: I, don't remember where I saw quintel's comment was about. When do you escalate from the sub projects? To you know the the the sig itself? When do you bring stuff, for example, if we have trouble in the gates conformance working group, then what is the escalation process for bringing it back to you? No sig architecture. That was one question, I, don't think we've covered in the Charter yeah I mean that's.

D

Know Joe personally.

A

I'm fine with leaving some of this undefined and we can feel our way through it and we can add rules as we need to like. Like you know, if we.

F

Want a lawyer, it.

A

Up we'll end up with.

A

B

Yeah, that's cool with everybody. Then we can.

G

We should just go ahead with it. Well, that's exactly what we do in in cluster lifecycle. Just make sure that, like the leads of the product, there's enough lead to the project that there isn't a block, a block, vote right. So that way, it's spread it out across enough, so that the leads of the of the sig I'm, sorry have. The ability to sort of you know have have some back and forth to help. You know, keep each other honest, otherwise,.

D

We're we're bottleneck right now is just ramping up more people who are willing and have time it can make time to do the work. So that's what we're trying to do right now, like just on the conformance effort, for example, trying to get people to join the conformance working group mailing lists. You know it's very, very low traffic or once a month meeting, you know and just start working on the stuff there. So that's that's where our effort is currently at it's sig is just behind many other SIG's in terms of functioning.

D

As a you know, good stuff done kind of in seeing.

A

The I mean this discussion is making me think, like we have this. We have this general idea around modified lazy consensus for decision-making. Do we need another sort of principle around? You know optimistic unstated process like don't create process unless we actually have a concrete need for it assume that people are gonna, be rational and created on-demand I'm, just I'm gonna, throw that on the pile. Let's not talk about it now, but I think yeah.

D

On the lazy consensus front, we have to be careful about where that gets applied like LG TM does not happen. If you're lazy convinced that's right, I.

E

Think that don't worry about process, we can figure it out later thing works. If people agree that this steering committee is the ultimate body, Escalade and people trust this body to be responsible and make sane decisions I'm totally.

D

In favor of that.

E

D

You can go, maybe create the process for not creating process.

A

D

A different discussion.

A

I just wanted to sort of see people's thinking on that yeah.

D

We really don't want to have like foundation bylaws that are.

A

You guys are in Mountain, View anymore, sorry.

D

Hey I will continue, I'll poke all those other SIG's that I'm vaguely involved with at this point and see if we can move down those charters.

D

Yeah, big big data by the way is the one that really should be working group, not a state like they're, never gonna own code in kubernetes.

E

You want to own suggesting that to them, I suggested.

D

That to Anna rude but yeah he's off doing other things now so yeah I can try to channel that into the sig other ways.

E

Okay, so I'm optimistic that we could get all this done by December 5th. Well, we'll find out I guess but I agree with Joe I'd love to announce this at the contributor summit. It only took a year, but we finally got you people to write down what it is. You think you do here. I also.

A

Think it's part of our Q&A would be really good to review with everybody. The difference between working groups, committees and SIG's concerns, because I mean we can write stuff until we're blue in the face people, don't read it and so I think just starting to see it. A lot of people is sort of how we're modeling this stuff might be. This way.

H

Hey bosun, oh yeah! That's me! What's next, alright.

C

Thanks thanks Larry too much multitasking, alright, so block things sense that procedures are cigs and working groups, I actually.

E

Don't know why that's blocked there's a poll request that I was happy with I honestly, don't know why it's blocked either lazy consent.

C

E

C

Looks like something merged, there's a DJ, a governance rename was it D, dupes of governance that you have open, but this looks like it's done right because the ads sake, retirement criteria, merged, there's a net. It's that procedure.

D

C

So yeah there at sunset procedures for cigs and working groups yeah it's the next thing to the block column.

E

Added a commit since I last reviewed.

C

It says it looks like DIMMs has some comments about slack channels, that's it and then so deems it looks like he. Maybe he took another shot at it that that George took another shot at it after you comment, so can you check okay I'll? Do that he didn't ping. The conversation so I'm, not sure, but I see another push. That's there. He.

E

Removed a period not.

C

E

Might not have addressed.

C

The slack channel thing but I don't know, let's, maybe maybe if you can weekend fitting, that'll longer or Joe. If you can ping George yeah.

D

By the way we have sunset some cigs and working groups before one of the issues that did come up is people who wanted to go. Look at what happened in that sig had trouble doing so. If materials were shared just with the sig, you know, and the workgroup was shut down so is no longer possible to join the group. So we may want to just make some kind of comment about how to properly archived a stager working group, the mailing list and documents, and whatever other artifacts that aren't in github god.

A

I wish we could use something like team with like a drug for sake that just be to freak music.

C

Okay, anything more on that no ensure all criminals. Your host follow the same contributing structure. This looks like this is Phillips and Aaron. Let's see what it's locked on, a bunch of repos don't have contributing got MD a bunch of them are merged.

C

There's a couple open ones.

C

It looks like six CSI: does somebody want to ping? Somebody want to add pinging the CSI folks to merge you're, contributing license etcetera. Last comment.

E

I had down there is that there's some minor differences, there's a matter of vetting whether all the docs are in the right places and agreeing on what those right places are. We got pushback from somebody in one of the repos that said, stop cluttering up my root directory with these Doc's. They shouldn't be here: I want them someplace, so they so people can see more of the readme right. It's pushing the readme below the fold and that has kind of deadlocked us. Do we care if the docs are not in the root place?

E

Do you want to go pay the cost of updating the automation to check a couple different places instead of just route, uh Ryan is needed if he is talking about this repo.

D

C

Am Not sure I just I mean for all of the ones that are open, the only one that may it's you. It's still open it CSI and they already merged a bunch. So it seems like they don't object. I.

E

Don't remember off the top of my head. Unfortunately,.

E

Anyway, this is open because I think there are a couple like Doc's repos that may lack some of those Doc's like contributing NDA is.

C

There is there a central place where we I mean I know we have a lot omission on. Is there a central place that lists ones that are missing it? I.

E

Am Not sure, okay.

C

Because, in the absence of that, it feels weird to just sort of leave this thing open is it doesn't have what needs to be resolved. I.

C

Know all right, there's there's every thrilled around this one, so we're gonna, I, guess we'll leave it in the in the blocked waiting.

E

C

E

Let's at least document why it's open its open because we don't actually know what needs to be done to resolve this. Well.

D

We sounds like one thing we need is automation to tell us what things are non-conforming. Yes, they just scrape all of the repos of all that works and.

C

I feel like Nikita, must have done something like this, because she added a whole bunch of these, and so I feel like someone like, unless she just did it manually, which seems horrible and just said earlier, says: I can make the tool so yeah.

E

I think it was. This is the typical. Does the steering committee have a policy decision here if every repo is supposed to look like the kubernetes template project, that repo has all of these wonderful files living in its root, not inside of a directory called github or whatever? But if you scroll further up in this issue, monopole is saying that there is precedent within github for these files to live somewhere other than root, and could we please be okay with that.

D

For now, I can just tell Jeff name.

E

And his argument is that the user experience for repos like kubernetes is awful, because you have to continuously scroll past all these boilerplate files. There.

D

May not be wrong, but I don't know that we have bandwidth to go fix. That I can ask. Japanese wants to write a tool to fix.

C

The automation thank.

J

You I think you have no objection.

C

Why don't we say we have no objection necessarily, but we're gonna. Do it something I want to write a tool to deal with PRS. That's great. Did you just say, Pierre's welcome,.

A

C

Just said Pierre as welcome yeah I, pretty much said about Matt.

D

My team owns this repo, so it's not going to be a controversial yeah ranking it all.

C

Right, moving on uh versus CLA discussion, I think we've closed this and we'd not closed this. Can we just close this? They.

D

Discussed that earlier, I.

G

Think we can as long as somebody put some details in there so that way, external observers were actually there watching I.

A

Know where I stand yeah.

B

We can close it, but I do want to open a meta discussion in a sec another issue later about. How do we make it easier for people who are not 9 to 5? You know yeah.

D

B

D

Is a relatively minor issue amongst the many problems with yep.

C

Yeah I mean and I actually think that a bigger issue actually is availability of the ceiling of the CLA thingy and the only people have I've ever seen had problems and the CL thingy. It's because it hasn't worked properly. Not because like it was a pain to use.

C

Like I've had I've had numerous people- Mercer sorry but oh yeah, there's some of them drop and that's what I like I kind of feel like there's always drive-bys I mean I, have plenty of PRS, where I put a bunch of really nice comments on their code and they never come back either right so, like I, think there's just gonna I think we should just accept that there's gonna be drive-bys, but I have also had I can send you a bunch of PRS where people are like I signed it I signed it, I signed it and, like you know, five hours later, they're still saying I signed it.

C

So that's a bad experience. Yeah.

B

Okay, so I guess the hope there is the new tool that you know we were talking about earlier, when the open-source version will will help make things better for the CLA.

A

People- okay, let me are you: gonna- have to sign the CLA to contribute to the CLA infrastructure. Now.

C

What's the great glass scenario for this one yo.

E

Dawg, I heard you like licensing.

C

Alright, so Sony want to put a comment on this basically saying we're not doing this right now, LF is litigating. You know anyway, maybe we'll revisit this someday in the future. We're gonna work on chilling to make sure that this is clean. Oh my god,.

D

By the way when this broke in the past, we had a CLA, even a label, just without the break glass, yeah.

C

Alright, that's all for the back law or for the block waiting. Do we have anything on the backlog that we need to move into it in progress? Is anything? Should we go through that or does anybody elections, meta issue I think we can close? That right is that right. Oh, this is uh maybe not no.

E

We can't there's more there than just I'd like I, touched up some stuff, but that has a number of longer-lasting all right, cool.

C

G

Things in the backlog, so we actually put ourselves. You know I.

E

Think that would be a great thing to talk about in person at cube con just a backlog, grooming I, like.

I

The way you defer and procrastinate that.

C

E

C

Can talk about it in cube con 2020 well,.

E

I'm trying to keep us focused on actually don't go bug your sakes treat for charters, I, think.

I

C

That's good. We got eight minutes left I.

B

Have one the license scanning stuff I am talking to Steve I believe with Nikita, and we went through the old scans.

B

They're gonna run a new scan sometime this month, maybe in a week or so so one question I have is: is there anything in there that will block that we would consider blocking a release on, and you know that was one question I had for you all from that me.

B

D

B

One thing that is bothered me was the Hecate e-license HEK ETI and I'm, trying to push those people to realize since some of the files they have. They do not have the she license anymore for some files by mistake, they were realized. They were trying to do Apache, plus LGPL, and when they were doing that mechanical change, they left some files with just LGPL, which we end up pulling. So is that kind of thing that would it make us stop our release so.

A

B

The root of the.

A

Repo is one weiss and saying hey it's both of these and but then individual files are marked with another one, and so that creates confusion. Right yeah.

B

At this point that are like three files or four files, which I mean in the.

C

Past no, that's the copyright header that we were told didn't matter all.

F

C

Yeah no, but it's the license in the copyright header.

A

C

It actually matter I can't remember, I would.

A

Assume that like, if you have a copyright on the file, that's over the repo do.

G

We know lawyer to answer this question this.

D

Is the kind of thing I.

A

A

Yeah but I think we definitely want to rush to fix it right. Yeah.

C

I would hold on a GPL and GPL three well.

B

A

The problem with this one is that that file is left with just a GPL. The intent seems to be dual, but is.

C

It a gmail, that's LGPL,.

A

Gb all right that LGPL or Ichiko yeah.

C

Gpl now LG peels, okay right, because all these.

A

Guys linking it else not as okay is.

C

It LGPL isn't lgpl compatible with apache. This.

D

Is the kind of thing that we should ask you along no.

G

Yeah as a former red header and who has done this many times, LGPL is not compatible with the package. It depends.

C

On what you're trying to do right, it's compared I thought it was compatible with all you were doing was linking the library because l betts, the l.

A

D

Is this library, oh right.

C

Because it's the comply right, never mind now: cuz it ship this source and.

A

You compile you, don't link it, you compile it.

A

Say no, and so we should rush to fix it and or replace it. Do we know where this thing's used? How hard is it it's.

B

One entry volume plugin, which is the gloucester plugin. So if we said if we remove the glossary plugin, it goes away. Okay, steve Watney, I, bomb I.

G

Can poke Steve water or AirDroid okay.

A

B

Been poking them, Nikita has been poking them and somebody else from Google has been poking them too, but then okay, thank you. The other related news is Stephan. Augustus is any going to enable the FOS si things sometime soon, I, don't know exactly when I'll find out and let you guys, let you all know so- is this gonna be.

A

Like a just gonna, be a premature I.

B

D

And the problem we've had in the past is that we, you know firefight these license issues and then they crop up again and yeah in general. We need an owner for this to continue oversight. I, don't know if we want to post you're the owner, Tim's, good, okay, and so the LF is also or seen. Cf is offering to do a security audit, so we need someone an owner to engage with them. I think that's!

D

The security team right now is signing up for that, but yeah that would be useful to make sure that that moves along I think our our role in those things is just make sure there is an owner.

B

Alright, so do we want to move the Cuban artists license canning to in progress.

D

A

We need a second for the license, canning or.

E

Say grill lease if I remember right.

B

Yeah, that's right: cig release is gonna own. That he's at least know pre-summit, check, go and I think they give out badges to the project as well that you can put on our rotary in me right so we'll see.

A

C

Asked me: I did okay and did we have? There was one other thing at the bottom. I think those cube cons are eating up all our time. Oh Brian. Do you want to review the signatures? It's too late for that probably right, no.

E

I this was me just brain dumping. This I think we already covered that okay.

D

I'll look at it this week.

C

We're canceling next meeting because it's so close to Thanksgiving if anyone's in Shanghai and wants to hang out. Let me know and otherwise I think we're good well.

D

I think there was the one bullet I saw in their brain and asking since you have to see candidates, I mean show.

A

D

Both can nominate two people to the TOC. Six people will get elected, come January elections close right after Thanksgiving, November. 26, nominations, closed sorry, November, 26th,.

C

Okay, well, maybe we just put maybe just on people gonna suggest people on steering private if they have people they want to suggest, and then, if there's more than one or if somebody objects, we can not nominate them sure, like lazy consensus effectively and if there's more than two then we'll have a vote but hired more than two. What.

A

Criteria are we looking for there? I can.

D

I think yeah I can send some notes about what the TSE is actually doing. I've.

C

Been told that it's it's somewhat substantial time commitment, it's becoming an increasingly substantial time, commitment, yes, so that should be just so I think we we shouldn't nominate anybody who we haven't talked about talk to about that, because we want to make sure they can commit the time yeah for.

A

C

I mean I think that also it would be great to sort of if there are well-qualified, diverse candidates. I think that's a great thing to nominate as well.

C

Just like keep in mind.

A

It's weird because I think you know the folks that show leadership inside of a kubernetes project who are doing good work. You know number one is if we want them to keep using their time to do that, and then the second thing being is that it's, the TOC is gonna, be a little bit of a different type of work than yeah.

C

I would encourage people to think broadly think beyond the kubernetes project to other people, because I think that's actually more valuable. Yeah.

D

And so right now on the composition of the TOC, there are effectively two people with an end-user background, Camille and Sam. Only one really with a project background- and that's me Jonathan, you can argue but I mean he hasn't been that involved and then some you know other people from companies in the cloud native space. So I don't know who the new candidates are.

D

There I'm told there are some, but that it's within the GB, Michelle and Brandon could probably tell us if they were here but yeah I can send some notes about what the TOC has been doing and what kind of work it is and what the level of time commitment is.

A

D

Governing Board the.

A

Governing board yeah, so that's problematic, because I think you know finding folks will cool all right. Well, that's a different discussion. Yeah yeah.

D

Electability is a different issue. All.

C

Right well, we're out of time and I need to drop. So, though, by as.

E

C

J

E

You in Shanghai, preggers and I'll see the rest of you in four weeks, all right, okay, bye, oh, do I.