►
From YouTube: Kubernetes SIG Usability 20200519
Description
Regular Kubernetes SIG Usability meeting
Agenda:
- Gaby Moreno Cesar breaks down reactions from Kubernetes users on "You may not need Kubernetes"
- Josie Paynadath introduces a labelling idea for better visibility and management over upstream usability issues
A
Hello,
everybody
and
welcome
to
our
regular
sig
usability
meeting.
Today
we
have
Gabi
Moreno
who's,
going
to
present
on
a
breakdown
of
feedback
on
kubernetes
user
experience
that
she
found
on
Hacker
News
and
do
some
light
analysis
on
that,
and
then
Josie
is
going
to
give
a
presentation
on
another
usability
topic.
So
Gabi
you
wanna,
kick
it
off.
Yes,
sounds
good!
Let
me
share
my
screen.
B
B
Yes,
there
we
go
good
catch
that
would
have
been
very
long
ago,
but
yeah
so
like
it
sounds
like
you
know,
it
was
a
pretty.
It
got
a
lot
of
comments.
It
was
posted.
Let's
see
it
got
about
250
comments,
so
I
went
ahead
and
read
through
just
kind
of
like
skimmed
through
those
someone
mentioned
that
there
was
a
previous
hacker
news
thread
that
had
been
posted
before
that
had
315
comments.
So
it
looks
like
you
know,
there's
a
good
conversation
going
on
about
this
in
the
community.
B
So,
in
addition
to
the
hacker
news,
comments
was
the
article
itself,
which
was
which
I
also
read
and
I.
Guess
just
so.
You
have
a
little
bit
of
background
on
the
article
in
case
you
all
haven't
read:
it
is
this
kind
of
Lee,
a
smaller
team
that
maintains
a
monitoring
service,
and
so
they
have
to
be
close
to
to
hardware,
and
so
they
weren't
able
to
use
a
man
changed
Karuna
DS
instance
in
this
example
be
because
of
that
restriction,
so
they
were
attacking
they're.
B
Coming
from
the
experience
of
someone
that
uses
that
unmanaged
version
of
career
net
knees
and
kind
of
like
their
experience,
managing
their
moderating
specific
microservices
across
this
kind,
like
small
small
team,
so
that's
just
a
little
bit
of
background,
because
I
do
feel
like
it's
important.
You
know
that
you
don't
have
like
the
niceties
of
I
mean
it's
kubernetes
like
II,
and
you
have
to
do
everything
yourself
kind
of
like
what
that
experience
is
like.
So
in
the
article
they
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
deploying
a
it
just.
B
They
need
very,
very
basic
things:
visibility
into
the
services
that
they
have
running
and
which
I
think
is
the
biggest
one
and
basically
being
able
to
easily
deploy
and
just
keep
a
pulse
on
them
and
because
Corona
DS
not
for
so
much.
They
write
up
things
like
like
our
back
or
kind
of
slip
that
config
Maps.
What
that
they
felt
weren't
as
relevant
to
their
use
case,
but
that
are
very
much
like
the
encouraged
best
practice
in
kubernetes,
as
kind
of
like
a
good
way
to
do
things
all
right.
B
So
an
example
of
when
kubernetes
is
very
awesome
kubernetes
at
its
best.
Is
that
with
ethical
solutions
and
and
actually
you'll
kind
of
see
that
my
approach
to
this
is
very
much
kind
of
like
when
I
was
reading
through
these
and
kind
of
felt
like
some
of
them
were
saying
the
same
thing
I
tried
to
just
you
know,
pull
out
one
that
I
thought
was
pretty
pretty
representative
of
what
a
few
of
them
were
saying
just
to
pull
up
some
themes.
B
So
that's
right,
stiff
just
like
very
light
weight
analysis,
just
kind
of
trying
to
keep
stay
true
to
the
rock
content.
But
in
this
example,
they're
saying
that
classical
solutions
that
someone
would
have
to
put
together
themselves
today,
based
on
puppet
chef,
ansible
handwritten
shell
scripts,
VMs
and
SSH
that
you
can
bring
those
up,
you
can
do
that,
but
with
Corona
DS.
All
of
this
work
has
been
done
for
you
and
Corinne.
B
Inez
makes
this
super
nice
because
you're
only
needing
to
deal
with
this
at
a
high
level,
primitive
level,
I
gave
an
abstraction
level
and
then
kubernetes
takes
care
of
the
rest
for
you.
So
if
you're
an
stuff,
the
classical
UNIX
way,
you
can't
even
see
like
how
awesome
Corinna
DS
is
and
how
much
it
does
for
you,
and
you
already
have
this
idea
of
kind
of
like
what
you
need
to
do
and
how
much
value
like
kubernetes
brings
so
I
highlighted
this.
All
all
of
these
solutions
require
a
lot
more
custom.
B
We
were
from
an
ops
team,
then
kubernetes
steps,
so
that
was
one
example
short.
Can
kubernetes
be
simpler?
Yes,
when
you
don't
need
a
production
system
that
has
high
availability
as
soon
as
you
need
high
availability,
all
signore,
you
need
to
be
able
to
fail
over.
You
need
load
balancing
me,
backends
for
load,
balancing
and
so
community
makes
that
very
easy.
B
You
know
something
like
running
a
stateful
service
which
might
be
easy
on
some
on
a
pass,
for
example,
is
not
as
easy
to
do
in
vanilla,
kubernetes
debugging.
We've
heard
that
before
and
a
lot
of
coop
cons.
How
do
you
do
that?
My
home
lights
stopped
working
I
couldn't
tell
it
turns
out
that
it
was
because
Corinna
D
certificates
expired.
You
know
they
probably
hadn't
updated
that
version
of
kubernetes.
B
A
B
Let's
see
so
building
a
self-service
platform
on
communities,
you
know
at
work
we're
trying
to
build
an
entire
service
platform
on
top
of
miniature
Nettie's,
and
you
know
not
everybody's
a
good.
It
has
a
great
experience.
They
didn't
really
go
too
deeply
into
oi,
but
I
feel
like.
Maybe
this
was
a
little
bit
more
of
relevant
use
case.
You
know
you
have
a
managed
kubernetes
service
and
you're
trying
to
build
build
a
platform
on
it.
So
maybe
that
use
case
is
very
different
from
like
the
the
blog
and
Karina's.
B
So
this
is
from
the
article
and
it's
kind
of
what
I
was
talking
about
at
the
beginning,
where
you
you
go
in
with
this
prototype
mind,
set
creating
a
prototype
with
kubernetes
and
they
start
they
started
realizing
that
they
were
adding
more
layers
of
logic
that
related.
That
was
saying
the
kubernetes.
This
calls
out
config
Maps
as
the
example
that
I
mentioned
it
before
helman
configure
optional
features,
so
you
don't
have
to
use
them.
B
Depending
on
your
team,
you
may
have
different
best
practices
for
that
and
config
Maps
is
is
a
best
practice
option
that
you
have,
if
you
want
to
take
advantage
of,
but
they
were
saying
it's
tempting
to
go
down
the
full
path
and
build
abstractions
on
top
of
communities.
When
you
don't
really
know
if
you
need
them.
B
B
A
Because
I
mean
I
do
think
that
kubernetes,
the
kubernetes
community
hasn't
really
optimized
for
a
super,
easy
installation
path
and
that's
kind
of
something
that
Valerie
was
talking
about
with
her
secure
by
default.
Idea
like
why,
when
we
help
you
automatically
provision
a
cluster,
are
we
leaving
it
kind
of
open
to
the
world
and
not
really
ready
to
go
for
a
new
user
and
so
yeah?
A
It's
very
true
like
there
are
no
training
wheels,
like
you
kind
of
have
to
already
know
what
you're
doing
to
successfully
stand
up
a
cluster
if
you're
really
going
to
use
it.
But
on
the
other
hand,
you
know
when
you're,
using
a
when
you're
using
a
platform,
and
you
wait
six
versions
to
upgrade
like
yeah
you're
gonna,
be
in
a
lot
of
pain.
So.
B
Yeah,
oh
yeah,
for
sure
we
had
some
very
cool
debugging
use
cases
here,
just
kind
of
like
when
things
go
wrong.
I'm
not
gonna,
read
through
all
of
these,
but
just
great
a
great
list
and
and
yeah
just
the
idea
that,
of
course,
kubernetes
is
rapidly
being
updated.
It
has
a
very
active
open
source
community
and
you
know,
is
it's
an
awesome
thing
that
there's
so
much
going
into
it,
but
then
like
there's,
there
does
seem
to
be
this
theme
of
managed
kubernetes.
B
That
kind
of
makes
updates
easier
for
you,
as
opposed
to
you
managing
your
own
current
at
ease
and
having
to
stay
on
top
of
the
updates
and
make
sure
that
those
make
it
smoothly
into
into
your
system.
I
there's
a
very
different,
there's,
clearly
a
very
different
level
of
experience
there
yeah,
so
that's
it.
Those
were
some
of
the
themes
that
that
I
pulled
out
and
just
some
questions
that
I
had
at
the
end
was
just
kinda
like
this
was
fun.
I
mean
like
it
was
a
hacker
news
thread.
B
I
mean
you
know
very,
very
public,
very
opinionated,
but
you
know,
like
I,
think
it's
fun
to
kind
of
see
what
people
are
saying
about.
Corinna
he's
kinda
like
a
little
bit
out
in
the
wild
MIT.
This
is
you
know
like
an
input
like
a
user
input.
You
know,
and
how
do
we
process
things
like
these
and
the
other
one
was
just
kind
of
like
in
current
Nettie's.
Like
do
we
have
kind
of
an
agreed-upon
definition
of
what
a
good
experience
on
Corinna
DS?
It's
it's!
That's
it
yeah.
A
I
think
those
are
great
questions
a
lot
of
times.
What
could
be
interesting?
So
the
thing
is
the
thing
that
kind
of
unravel
here
is
that
kubernetes
upstream
is
an
open
source
community.
So,
in
a
lot
of
ways
when
people
say
hey,
like
I,
want
an
easy
onboarding
experience,
I
want
like
an
easier
kick
the
tires
experience
unless
there's
a
contributor
who's
ready
to
kind
of
jump
in
and
do
that
work
then
kind
of
the
way
to
crystallize.
A
So
you
end
up
kind
of
with
this.
You
know
it's
not
an
easy
on-ramp,
but
then
who's
going
to
concretely
do
the
work
to
build
the
steps.
So
I
think
that
in
some
ways
the
usability
group
can
become
a
place
where
we
grab
gather
feedback
that
like
this
and
try
to
get
very
concrete
about
as
I
look
at
the
new
experience
for
a
new
user.
A
So
I
think
those
are
some
things
we
can
do
and
then,
when
we
get
really
crisp
on
ok,
we
kind
of
understand
what's
missing
here,
then
we
can
also
start
to
invite
people
to
submit
code
changes
both
to
Docs
and
to
individual
projects
that
we've
already
kind
of,
because
the
problem
is
as
a
new
contributor
a
lot
of
times.
People
come
in,
say:
ok,
I
figure.
This
out.
You
know
I'm
gonna
fix
this
broken
stair,
but
they
don't
have
the
context
in
the
project
enough
to
perhaps
like
contribute
the
right
thing.
A
That's
actually
gonna
get
accepted,
so
that
becomes
a
bad
experience
as
a
new
contributor.
So
that's
why
I'm
kind
of
saying
like
we
should
help
kind
of
curate
these
issues
with
the
team
that's
involved,
and
then
we
could
start
inviting
new
contributors
to
help
fix
them
or
just
socialize
them
with
more
senior
contributors.
If
there
are
more
complicated
issues,
mm-hmm.
C
Thank
you
for
sharing.
It
was
really
interesting.
I!
Guess
it's
fascinating,
because
at
the
company
I
work
at
not,
everyone
is
entirely
sold
on
kubernetes,
yet
so
really
like.
What's
the
benefit,
and
so
it's
like
really
nice
also
to
see
what
people
are
saying
in
terms
of
like
when
it
works.
Well,
what
works
well
a
little
about
it
and
then
like?
Where
are
the
drawbacks.
D
I
know
I,
read
that
article
and
all
but
I
pretty
much
read
the
entire
thread.
It's
it's
super
interesting
and
like
being
at
a
company.
That's
very
bought
in
to
kubernetes,
but
is
you
know
made
up
of
like
pretty
much
super
users
I
find
myself
having
to
really
bring
the
perspective
of
you
know
most
people
don't
actually
care
about
kubernetes
they're,
just
trying
to
get
a
job
done
with
it
like
they
don't
really
care
about
the
platform.
It's
just
helping
them
achieve
a
goal
of
some
kind.
B
D
D
B
C
This
is
more
general
inquiry,
so
I
was
wondering
if
there's
any
documentation
around
tagging
and
labeling
PR
requests
and
issues
and
github
I
found
a
couple
of
Doc's
like
I,
can
send
you
the
links
for
what
I
found
so
far,
but
I'm,
specifically
looking
on
guidance
for
tagging
usability
issues.
Oh
yeah,.
A
You
know
probably
the
right
place
for
us
to
figure
out
what
the
exact
labeling
that
already
exists
is
to
just
go
to
a
sig
contributor
experience
and
just
ask
them
because
I
know
it's
written
up.
I
would
just
have
to
dig
through
get
help
to
find
it
and
then
once
we
found
it,
if
I
I
said
I,
don't
know
if
they
have
a
usability
tag,
they
may
have
a
usability
tag,
but
it
would
be
really
cool
for
us
to
pull
up
a
report
and
see
everything
that
has
been
tagged
or
start
socializing.
C
A
Yeah
I'm
super
happy
to
help
you
figure
it
out.
We
actually
are
presenting
to
contributor
experience
on
Thursday
I.
Think
Valerie
was
gonna,
take
that
but
I'll
have
to
check
in
with
her,
since
she
has
a
lot
going
on
right
now,
but
that
would
be
a
good
place
for
us
to
socialize
this
and
before
then
we
could
just
hop
into
the
contributor
experience
slack
channel
and
ask
them
about
its.
You
know:
tagging
issues
and
like
usability
tags
and
I'm
they're,
so
good
at
writing.
Things
up
that.
A
I
know
that
there's
just
a
github
page
somewhere
that
like
has
everything
but
it
we
could
also
just
work
with
them
to
add
anything
that
we
wanted
to
add
and
then
also
kind
of
opened
up
for
discussion.
As
far
as
like
what
other
labels
would
people
like
to
see,
and
how
can
we
track
it
because
you're
right
usability
is
like
a
huge
umbrella,
which
is
why
they,
we
ended
up
spinning
it
up
as
an
entirely
new
sick,
and
you
know
we
have
different
pieces.
Like
the
translation
work.
You
know.
A
Some
people
are
very
passionate
about
improving
the
usability
of
people,
engaging
in
translation
work
and
then
we
have
you
know.
Then
we
have
like
UX.
We
have
like
how
do
we
have
like
a
consistent,
visual
language
right
like
so
there's
like
a
bunch
of
different
and
then
there's
new
user
experience
so
like
there's
just
a
bunch
of
new
pieces
and
I,
don't
think
that
programmatically,
you
know
we
have
a
great
way
of
getting
visibility
over
what
everyone
else
is
working
on
and
what
they'd
like
us
to
take
a
look
at
so
yeah.
C
A
Yeah,
let's
check
in
with
Valerie
and
see
if
she's
gonna
do
the
presentation
and
if
she's
not
we
can,
we
I
should
probably
pull
something
together
so
yeah
we
will
figure
out
the
update
and
I.
There
have
Valerie
kind
of
socialize
that
we're
doing
this
or
we
can.
We
can
jump
in
and
help
out
so
yeah
yep.
A
D
Last
thing:
sorry,
my
dog
just
went
off
in
the
background.
I
would
love
to
help
out
with
the
data
analysis
or
visualization
I.
Think
I
mentioned
that
before
I.
Don't
know
if
that's
been
decided
already,
but
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
would
love
to
do
that
in
R
and
like
we
could
put
the
code
up
to
be
used
again
and
make
sure
we
like
get
all
the
branding
stuff
right
to
be
reusable
and
fit
nicely
into
the
you
know
way.
We
want
to
distribute
it
in
the
future.
Okay,.