Layer5 Meshery Development, 27 Jul 2022

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From YouTube: Meshery Development Meeting (July 27th, 2022)

Description

Meshery Development Meeting (July 20th, 2022)

Agenda:
[Yash] Meshery-UI-Restructuring Updates #5833 #5823
[Gaurav] REST API Docs update for Applications #5887
Let’s be consistent on the API designs. Given that Meshery APIs are not broadly using query parameters currently, I’ll suggest that a guiding principle be established to avoid their use altogether.
[Ashish/Uzair] Demo Enhancing applications to include explicit source type.
Helm logo is skewed. The compose logo has too much padding (in the svg, I suspect).“HELM" letters should not be touching the other parts of the logo. I’ve pointed to where to get the original previously.
it’s time to keep pre-generated K8s components on-hand. A design spec needed.
Better errors
Potential use of joyride to give users a first-time overview of each UI/page.
[Harkirat] Mesheryctl user friendly error message #5661 #5892
1st goal: Eradicate “Error: requires at least 1 arg(s), only received 0”
2nd goal: Identify appropriate response types based on category of error. For example:
Error Type: Invalid command entered
Response Type: Suggested use (“Did you mean … ?”)
Error Type: Missing required parameter
Response Type: Example use
[Rohith] Catalog section responsiveness #787
[Alpha] Review on design spec of import subcommand for mesheryctl app #5766
[Lee] Good looking design spec. Will you post on discuss.layer5.io and make a call for review? Post link here
[Debopriya] Return of the Layer5 Community Meeting!
GitHub Codespaces product manager will present.
Meshery Docker Extension will be demo’ed and discussed.
[Ruturaj] Demo Server feedback on adding k8s contexts

Join the community at https://layer5.io/community

Find Meshery on:
GitHub: https://github.com/meshery
Twitter: https://twitter.com/mesheryio
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/meshery/
Docker Hub: https://hub.docker.com/u/layer5/

A

So uh good morning or good evening, everyone so welcome to today's mention development call. uh So uh traditionally we uh uh you know, ask some new comers to uh introduce themselves so that we can know each other. Well, so uh I'm just taking out the seeing the uh you know, newcomers and uh kamal uh have you joined this call for the first time.

B

I have joined the value for that, but I can introduce myself.

B

So yeah, uh my name is tamil hello, everyone. So I have joined the mashree community about some 15 days. I have gone now and I'm yes, I'm trying to contribute as.

A

Pardon me like, I always do this mistake. Okay, so I see uh no new uh commerce. So let's get started with our agenda items and uh first in this we have yes uh measuring structural updates. uh Yes, it's all yours.

B

uh Yes, she's not on the podcast, oh.

A

C

Yeah he did he and that's my fault. He did send word um a few a little bit ago. I didn't get a chance to read it. I was on a call, but he did say he was going to be absent.

A

Okay, no worries: uh let's move on to the next item uh by alert message: detail, user, friendly error messages.

A

C

You know I'll go ping him. I don't think he's done just yet.

A

Yeah, so, uh okay, this this is very weird by the way. So, let's move on to the next item, which is by gaurav so gaurav, is on the call and uh we are moving at the test. Api dots update for applications.

B

Yeah, I can I'll share my screen. Thank you. Thank you!

B

So, okay, so as um recently, um there is an open pr about adding a source type, so it contains all the api endpoints which are um updated in the backend and in the front end as well, which contains source type, update and source content update for downloading the source content. So we should also have um this api um updated in the machine docs. So this pr is about that rest. Rest. Api, update for applications, so this pr contains a new api docs for api, slash application, slash type and api, slash application, slash, download and yeah.

B

Let me just demo this thing from my preview. So if you go to rest api reference and yep uh here, we can see the slash api, slash application, slash types and for download it contains the description like what this api do and what parameters we are passing in over here and what response it will give and yeah. Currently it only supports uh three types head chart: docker, compose and communities manifest heading chart will be in the format of targese. Docker compose will be in the format of yaml and yml and kubernetes.

B

Manifest will be in again xml and yml.

B

The sim uh same thing goes for download, in which we are passing the parameters, id name and source type, with query parameters, so yeah and one more thing I would like to share, because um since we are using the deploy endpoint for patterns because um patterns are getting converted to applications itself, so I have removed the api docs api statement over here for deployment and undeployment, because we are using the slash api, slash, patents for deployment and undeployment.

B

Yeah, any more information or feedback need to be added over here in dots.

A

Yeah so uh source type answer. I think it looks fine.

C

Yeah yeah, whenever you can yeah, if it's ever possible, to include an example, either an example of what it would be to of the output or an example of what type of payload a post might require is always nice, um the you know for those that are into the functionality. It's pretty good. This you know description already, like you know, application application, download and id it retrieves the source content from like that might be something to explain. It's like what was source content like what what is.

D

C

If they keep reading and they were to see, I think hellman if uh helm and docker and compo like they could maybe discern that, but but yeah anyway, just just kind of general feedback like there are more and more and more of you uh of contributors that actually you're both creating the apis and you're you're consuming them, and so it's in a lot of respects us just helping ourselves.

C

um There's an api refactoring that I think root. Raj and shish are working toward in mastery server with respect to the uh capabilities registry as they as they look at that. As we look at the principles under which the measuring api api is designed, there are, I think, six design principles right now for uh the the style of the api or the like guiding principles in terms of how it is that that the api is designed.

C

One thing that uh mr tiwari and I ashish- and I were talking about um just a couple of days ago- we were looking at and actually if we have the link to that spreadsheet, measuring api endpoints I'll share it here, um they're inside of that spreadsheet and yeah. I know it's a little bit uh awkward to be tracking the api endpoints in a spreadsheet.

C

It is a lot easier to reason over when you have a spreadsheet that just lists out the high level endpoints and kind of reason you can kind of categorize the.

C

um The endpoints into groups into related groups, so if you'll notice the first, you know row two talks about these design principles, there's about six of them, um there's really just five. I think the sixth thing is just a note which can probably be deleted at this point, but it becomes easier to reason over the the collection of endpoints, because you're able to group them under related concerns and so from row 52 through like 65 or so it those concerns are about mescheri's server and its components.

C

So at the bottom, is a group of about measure server and its components. There's the application related apis. So these are the ones that you're enhancing documentation for between row, 48 and row 51..

C

um If you haven't updated this spreadsheet, then we probably have an incomplete pr.

C

um What ashish and I were looking at was consistency by which, where the api surface is designed, some of the apis support, query, string parameters and the majority of them don't, and so um in cases like this, at least in my mind, there's not necessarily or an absolutely right way or an absolutely wrong way to design such things.

C

The but a design principle that you want to adhere to is like once you've chosen. One of those ways is to be consistent with you know. You you know is to be consistent.

C

That doesn't mean you can't change things over time and so right now there's about four, maybe five endpoints, that support query parameters and the vast majority that don't and so uh yeah. If we were trying to do a really good job, we'd, probably stop doing that unless there was just, you know, good call for exception, and I don't know that there is or we would go entirely. The other way. We'd say: let's just let's go query parameter style.

C

Let's do that, and so, but in the middle it looks like ah people were a in a hurry or 330 something people have contributed to the project which is true and so a bunch of different people contributing different ways. The thing is for most of you that are on the call. Many familiar faces, familiar names, you're invested in the project enough and you've been here long enough that it's worth the extra time to make things consistent, because you'll actually only frustrate yourselves.

C

Not only will we frustrate those that are integrating with the project, but you'll frustrate yourselves, because because you'll have to track a bunch of exceptions in your mind, so for my part, I'd vote for a follow-up to be rid of the query parameters on on this particular endpoint.

C

If we still have them, I can't tell because they're not in this spreadsheet, but are query parameters documented in the api docs that you were showing.

C

Parameters, applications. The name is called application file, not source type.

C

So to me, I think it's like source type, is you say, source type equals and then, like the type of file that you want to get back.

C

But yeah it's confusing to me and I've been kind of close to it. I think it's confusing to you guys because nobody's really speaking up to lay it straight, even if you are able to speak up to lay it straight, what your, what your would say is probably not exactly what's documented and that delta means that we're doing something wrong.

C

So yeah, okay, I'll write down some of that feedback should.

B

Yeah, um thanks for the feedback, I'll look into the uh this meeting minutes.

B

Yep um back to yogi yeah.

A

Yeah, so we have collected some feedbacks here, so the next item uh ashish will be talking about uh ashish and who's. There we'll be talking about demo, enhancing applications.

B

A

So yeah so would not be able to attend this call, although he had a contribution to do it. So I put his name up there I'll see you sure and I'll give you a demo.

A

Okay, so the recent report has been doing the the recent thing that the uh talked about introducing the basically enhancing the application um endpoint in the documentation. uh Some of this is related to what the changes that have been made to the endpoint because of this pull request- and this is around introducing this new column here, which is the source type column. So before this thing, which is right now, we had inconsistencies around what an application file is, so sometimes you would have a docker compose.

A

Sometimes you would have a case manifest and there was no transparent way to figure out what was what now, basically anything that you can import gets converted into a design which is our own, which is our own single way of storing anything or all of you, no matter what the source of that file was, it can be kubernetes, it can be docker composed it can be held, and then we allow you to go back and download the source from which you actually had imported that thing.

A

So now so, just to demo this real quick, I can import an application, and here uh it can be a helm chart. It can be a docker compose or it can be a community's manifest. So just to just give you an example: let's import supported, kubernetes, manifest and uh or let's import doppler compose.

A

Yeah, so this got imported, and if I open this, this has been converted into the design format. I can deploy it and if I click back, this is also a download link this uh this little icon that we see. So, if I click on here I'll be prompted to download, and if I open this file, this is the source file that was used to create that design.

A

So, basically, all the applications would have a source type and uh those source type are basically three types that we provide right now and the source would be saved that you can download back and uh yeah.

A

That's pretty much it that that's what uh this feature is, if anyone has any doubt or any uh thing to add on, I have a doubt yeah yeah, so uh in the demo, uh what we have done is uh we clicked on docker compose, so the resultant file which is test2.yaml when you click on this uh tab, you know our test.cml, so is it a design file or the original docker com is there? Is there is an original file? That is a design file is what you get here. Is the application files content?

A

That's the application files content and then you have source content so that application file is basically uh is always stored in our own template in our own format, which is the design format. And then you have the original source file here in case of kubernetes, it's yaml and in case of docker compose it's camel in case of helm. It's the rgz file, so you can download that back.

A

Even so, the test2.yaml uh is a uh uh yeah the test. No, the test2.yaml is basically it's the design file. The original file is the one that you will get if you click on this icon to download the source right. The original file is the source file and when you im, basically importing an application, means importing uh creating a new design using your own source file and which you can go back in time and download again because we store it as well. Okay, okay, I and uh what?

A

If you know, uh while uploading that conversion to design I just failed like? Are you denying that completely out what yeah? Basically uh it's important that it? You should be able to convert that into an application. So if the uh conversion would fail, then yes, the import will fail.

A

If the conversion fails, I mean uh sometimes import fails when you have a lack of resources or no crd available, or uh you know no attacker signing for that things that contains so uh is it a good idea to you know, uh fail the com. You know import because.

D

After, like in the process, you may.

A

Have it 20 seconds of almost after 20 seconds, or so you, the kubernetes components are registered, and here we are mostly using the kubernetes components and basically, if you don't have the adapter or the other stuff running, and if you convert that into application, that's not going to be deployable anyways uh and we need the components to do that conversion. So I think it's uh basically. I think I would stand by the decision to to enforce that thing.

A

Because the source to design conversion only takes place, if you have the components registered and we need the design and so that we can have consistency. So after this thing, the design page and the application page, the content that you'll see there is almost the same. The uh the api calls are the same. Exactly the same, so you know there is uniformity. There.

A

Okay, so meanwhile, uh when import pills, I you are throwing back the correct error, so that user knows that actually their import. uh You know uh the conversion has failed and not the actual import like there is nothing. You are getting uh point right, so you are importing.

B

A

And a conversion has failed, and so you are getting.

B

A

Design- I I I get your point just. uh I think this is what you're talking about if I just uh restart the server. So if I restart the server, basically, the communities conference will have to re-register and if I become, if I'm fairly quick and just before the kubernetes components have registered, I try to import it. You will get an error and let me show you that how that error looks like okay. So if I reload the page okay, I.

B

Hope, and if I click on, I have to be fairly quick, just pretty.

A

Much yeah so fail to create pattern service from this. This no resource is found, so no resources found because uh right now, humanities companies haven't registered so that so immediately you would get this error. uh If the ask is to enhance this error to be more user friendly, so that users can know that this is actually because the components have are not available to do all that conversion.

A

uh Then yeah, that suggestion looks fine to me now yeah, if I'll, try that, if I'll try that thing again by this time, the community's components have been registered so.

A

Yeah the imports of seams okay, yeah, so, okay, now it's good, so uh just one enhancement that you just told is uh telling the user that try again after some time. Your kubernetes is not registered this thing or whatever, which is you know user-friendly message or yeah, or you could retry after some time like internally by the ui itself, there may be different scenarios, but.

A

Okay, uh do we have any other comments here.

C

Yeah, it's it's pro I'll suggest that we're probably on the cusp of readiness for uh building in pre-generated kubernetes components. Isn't it kind of uh yeah? Wouldn't it be a better user experience if people weren't required to bring a kubernetes cluster to use the tool.

C

So some thought needs to be given as to challenges.

A

Oh yeah, I I thought about this thing in the only and actually, as I uh even discussed it with you, that uh this is a good use case of having the pre-generated components here and uh the only reason I can think of not to, and that's not even. I don't think that a strong reason or something is because if you don't have kubernetes, uh if you import the application, it would be undeployable. So when you deploy, you will get that so we will allow.

A

We will be allowing users to shoot themselves in the foot because they will be trying to deploy something that is undeployable, because there is nothing to handle that thing. uh If we can handle that case in case of designer that makes sense in mesh map designer you you should be able to.

A

That will basically allow you to design stuff without having the components and so that someone can design and then they can deploy later uh when the the adapters or the kubernetes is present to handle all that, but in case in the application page, um the only uh just after importing. The only thing we do here is to we just click the deploy button.

A

There is no extra functionality here to play around with and clicking the deploy button will result in an error that uh you don't have the kubernetes basically, because if you couldn't register the components for it, you wouldn't be able to deploy. That thing. That's the only reason I yeah.

C

Yeah, if you think about the design configurator on the designs page.

C

You'd you'd very much want for people to be able to.

A

Yeah yeah that, as I said,.

C

And then all you do is um let them know at deployment time that they don't have infrastructure to support it. So.

B

C

But so that's not the hard part to me. There are other hard parts, which is what, if they've designed using components that are slightly that are similar, but slightly different from the infrastructure at hand. uh They're, you know what, if the yeah, and so that therein lies um some challenges around caching or making sure versions are compatible, uh and sometimes it would be like the same. You know more like to the human eye. The same component, uh persistent volume and but the one that they chose to use at design.

C

Time was the alpha api alpha v1, but in their environment it's been a while they've now got beta deployed, and so there's a little bit of sneakiness. That can happen in the infrastructure there, as well.

A

Like one example is that if I take this url, this helm, url is actually basically, this helm. Chart has uh resources from an older alpha version and the kubernetes I'm running right now is of latest. So if I try to import that.

A

Yeah, it shows an error that okay, so basically it is a beta one and uh basically uh the the helm chart that there is references to the version, slash v1 beta1 and the kubernetes that I have has the custom resource definitions inside of slash v1. So if my kubernetes may support that crd in a different api group and the uh resist, basically the thing that I'm importing can have that in a different. So there can be those discrepancies as well, which will again disallow input.

C

Yeah other yeah other feedback from folks.

C

We did to abby's point um a lot. It's amazing how much time you can buy if you give the right messages back or if you just clarify like actually so such a different message back would be oh couldn't import out of 12 components could only import 11.. um This component isn't present in your current kubernetes environment and so like to the extent that that was to be said versus versus the guy. You know the other thing. um Well, people might be so much more well. First of all, they they can um internalize the fault.

C

Not as like. Oh well, I don't know this thing is like it geez it doesn't even work. I can't even import my app. You know what they'll internalize the fault. It's like! Oh yeah, okay! Well, you know they.

C

They might not love it to get that message, but but if there is an explanatory message um and getting to those can be really hard, like, I said something very specific, oh 11 of 12 were accepted this one and this one wasn't and here's the reason why you might be able to have some generic language that kind of meets them in the middle, which is to say unable to import the application successfully likely causes our.

C

um This is the specific one that we had an issue with. Please verify in your environment that that you're connected to a cluster so.

A

Anyway, prepared the errors.

A

Yeah but nice any other positions, yep.

C

I'm just on the logos: I'm surprised that they're still in the situation that they are, and so another thought is, you know, we've got uh this is just a random thought. Is that the red for the the negative action of undeploying is in red and that's pot? You know it's a good thing that alarming users to the fact that you know they're in the danger zone there um we're not necessarily highlighting the positive zone with green on the deployed check marks. I don't know that that's necessary.

C

I you know um it just strikes me that there isn't necessarily symmetry. I don't know that there needs to be just kind of highlighting it like. If you look at the grid view, the deployment button is um of a darker of a darker blue, whereas it's kind of interesting.

C

Actually, if you think about it from a ux perspective, the colors that we're teaching users here is that if you want to go into design configurator, so if you go back to the grid, if you want to go into design configurator, which is like the powerful feature in measure, is that design configurator.

C

The color that we're using in the theme that we're using is the same button. Color that you would use for cancel, normally, you would see like cancel, okay or or red would be cancel or the light oftentimes. The light gray is for cancel it's like okay or cancel something for us to give some consideration to that. We might want to draw in users on the as a matter of fact, what are the users going to do most often undeploy, probably not? Where are they going to spend most of their time?

C

They do a deployment, and it takes just a moment. Sometimes they'll do an undeploy most of the time. If they're in this interface, they would do the design, and so it might be. The design should be on the right hand, side in the you know in a bold color, just begging, people to click it versus the other ones. That maybe should be.

A

Or maybe design can move uh so basically here somewhere somewhere else, and we highlight it a little more like on the top or somewhere else, not along with their different blood yeah.

C

Yeah right and another just something for you all as you're using it to give thought to. Is you know until you do it the first time you don't necessarily realize that when you click on the card that it's going to swivel around, it's fine that it does it's a it's something easy to discover.

C

It does give you the sense that you're looking at the nitty gritty that you're it's like a baseball card, so you you see the nice picture on the front. Then you just click. You get all the stats in the back, um and I think that you know that's great. You.

C

But uh yeah I was gonna, ask you.

A

uh One of the suggestion that I could give is, when you just click on this configuration patterns, video the first card will just get back. uh You know see you know a slight animation to show the design and then and show the design ah so that user node low with it is flippable or something without disturbing the view you cut. You.

C

Without making them first click it to discover it.

A

Yes, like when you, when you uh load the uh this url for the first time on you are on the patterns or designs page then uh the first aggregate view grid item can be. You know just get a slight animation where it is flipping and then flipping back again to the original one.

A

We have seen some uh it uh at many places where you know the designer wants the users to know like what are the functionality they want.

C

Nice yeah make sense to me I'll, write it down so so for those that are on the call and contributing to ui it's a good thing to contemplate. Is I don't know that it would be react, tour or a different library, but abby. Unless I mistook what you said, you were saying like hey the first time that a user loads, this interface they might like to get just the super brief tour yeah.

A

A reactor is a can be done, but.

B

It was something different.

B

A

Should we discuss more or uh should we move, we are on friendship, tango, yeah, we're good. So, let's, let's get back to the heart.

B

So I was working on this user-friendly error message, so I created tracker to track the command for which I have already gone. Currently, I worked for these commands and I require some suggestion at your end for for this, like for the final changes like understanding the link, if you can give some suggestions or thoughts upon like on this, if you can.

B

So uh for me, I'm saying if, uh if for my studio, if we give a incorrect sub command, so we can have let cobra handle it or uh we have custom handling also and for the mystery studio sub command.

B

uh If we pass, if we do not pass any arguments uh which one looks more pretty this one or this one displaying the command help or displaying an error message that hey we got for the one hour and pointing to the usage details.

B

What if we have both, I think, because.

A

I feel like we also need to let the user know.

B

What they did wrong and then tell them what they can do, so it would be pretty long. The user would be confused, hey what I'm going to do so.

B

If you don't pass any argument, like famous like poc, tl or s2ds,.

D

C

D

Yeah sorry for interruption, I'm sorry for that, but you can get. You can give uh cmd dot help for like uh most of the time and for some commands like the mesh and the app command. You can give the message to the user. You have got. You have entered only this many args. It needs this. Many arcs like that. So that's my suggestion for some certain set of commands.

D

It needs arguments so without that it won't function so for those commands you can give the error message like this command needs this many args but yeah the user has given this many arcs. You can display that for other sub uh commands. Then you can display help. It won't be wrong.

B

Which wish for which particular command? We are talking about, like one you set for the mesh and tab app.

D

Yeah, there are also certain commands, but pretty much these two require arguments, so you can uh use the first one the display the error message for other commands. I feel that uh you can give this here, use the cmd.help option.

D

That's what I feel.

B

Anyone else, uh so if we were to follow what cube ctl does, then they have like a comprehensive message. For example, if you just say cube ct I'll get I'll tell you, you must specify the type of resource to get then uh so they don't display the whole help, but they just display. Like one, uh you know a very small summary of what went wrong and like one example, so they say something like cube: cdl get uh yeah cubes it'll get pods like that. For example, cubesate will explain parts so they'll.

B

Give like one example and tell you what's wrong.

B

uh Do you want to give any suggestions.

C

Yeah um yeah: this is important. Yeah.

C

User experience is a new field of study. Human centered design um is somewhat of an art rather than a science. That said, there are some scientific facts about humans. um We don't much care for change, is one of them and so to one of the guiding design principles for a good user experience within the cli and actually within the ui, but explicitly it's stated within cli that the ux guidelines are to lean into prior experiences that we understand, mesh3 users might have had with cubectl and docker cli as the two reference examples.

C

um So I think that's a well-placed uh comment. It's something to to look at and compare to it's sort of what people might expect it's kind of uh sickening and depressing to think that you have to stay with current experiences and you can't move the world forward, you just you you can you just want to do it in an evolutionary way, which is to say, have it close enough to what they are accustomed to and slightly enhance it?

C

I think that's in part the part of the first, if I, unless I misunderstood what raj had said initially, which was between the first two messages, there's some great aspects of both. So if you go back to the top for a moment, one of the the nice aspects- and maybe it's that it depends upon the context um that we do one of the next is like from s3cl cis. It's actually quite helpful that they're saying like oh hey, actually, probably what you meant was this and that's probably true, it's probably it's a great.

C

You know guess, and um it also tells them how to get at more help it. It would be okay, that's the nice thing about the custom handling is that it says you can get it more help at this url.

C

So like the best of the two worlds, at least in my mind between the first two things is to suggest what they might have meant, and I also at the same time like everyone we just can assume at this point. Everyone knows you can do a dash, h or dash dash help for what you're looking for generally.

C

What's more helpful and novel is a link to the doc specifically to the reference, and the reality is like that reference is programmatically laid out and something that alpha on the call is intimately familiar with. He could tell you that actually, the structure of that url is such that you could point them right to that command right to the system command or right to the what whatever, wherever they're at, like specifically as a matter of fact, it's encoded in the binary, so you could so you've actually got like all the docs right there.

C

You don't actually have to point the docs. You get them all right there. That's interesting! She actually showed them um specific examples for that command right here anyway. The the challenge, I think, often with the longer showing the full help can be, can be occasionally overwhelming if it goes on, for you know many pages, many wheel, squirrels on your mouse, you know to kind of sift it through um you going back to.

C

I want to share for just a moment, but going back to one of the things that we were talking about a moment ago about you, api design. Is that darn word again consistency? It's like well, you know being it is. We are doing no matter which of those things that we do that you just showed. We are in such a better place if any of those things are shown rather than.

C

I thought I just had an example rather than this. This is the for a docker run, just just I just randomly typed this. It's like like this right here.

C

I don't know ends up being kind of gobbledygook like okay, not really not not super helpful, and not not really that helpful kind of yeah. Okay, I get that, but like oh okay, here's a little bit better and a description of it good um usage like actually for me. Maybe this is just how small my brain is. Is man if you can give me an example of that? That's somebody like if they said docker run nginx image port. It's like! Oh, you know if you could give me the usage and an example.

C

Well, the examples are like so helpful to me, and so we actually have a lot of that. There's been a ton of effort put in, and so um it may. Maybe it's something to kind of do in phases is like um is. The first goal is to ensure that none of the measuring ctl commands respond with I'm. Just with this.

C

Computer speak like with gobbledygook right. You just dance like you all understand, because, but it's so like, if we could, if that's, if we get rid of that hey like and we have something else, we're in a much better place and we can kind of get there. I think in a fairly quick way, in a fairly standard way, just turning on cobra features or whatever.

C

After that, we could have a better discussion and a better less of a debate. Maybe but more of a discussion saying you know what there's actually place for the did. You mean this command and you would use it when someone mistyped it like they have an invalid command and there's a place for um hey. You forgot to add your token like, like. If you start to break down, you might have a different response. The appropriate response isn't always. Oh did you mean this? No, no! It's just you forgot to add your token.

C

You actually had a valid command, but you forgot part of it. So a better response is like. Oh here's an example usage. Not did you mean, with your token so, and I don't think that that's um hard to qualify programmatic, you can do that programmatically, it's not hard to qualify if they hit exactly on the command and the sub commands they're, not missing one. You don't need to suggest something. What you need to do is give them examples.

C

Those are my thoughts when I just you know.

C

I think everybody would readily agree that that other statement about getting to a place where there is no longer air requires at least one args only received zero. Getting away from. That is a great step forward.

C

I love that we laid out the choices and had put forth thought to harker. It's really helpful.

B

So I was working upon this, so uh I created a issue for this, like the views which, when we click on this, like gaurav, was asking for the demo. So garage is a demo for you, so so now uh after this pr, it would find like that.

B

Yep. Thank you.

B

A

What's the change by the way.

A

The import application button is now presented, it wasn't present when you had no applications.

B

You know is jamming that um currently on master branch, if you go on measure ui and just hit this view switcher twice on the same view, it will just show you a blank screen. No, nothing would be shown. So her credit fix. um The behavior with the state of view feature.

B

Is that right, okay, yeah yeah, you said hey, that's helpful, then.

A

Okay, thank you akira. uh Let's, the.

B

A

Is also moved right uh or it hasn't been moved because I wasn't seeing the import button or the previous behavior still remains, where, if you don't have any applications in the grid view, you would not see the import button.

B

A

There was an application.

B

There was application, is your veteran if you are.

A

Yeah I saw that yeah.

B

A

That that's. Why I'm saying that if there wasn't one, would we get, uh would we still get the import button just like we get in the tables view, or would that page be empty just like it was before so.

B

uh So you want that for the when there is no application as well.

A

Yeah yeah, I thought I actually thought initially. That was what you were demoing but yeah. I realized that there was a there was an application so.

A

Okay, yeah time to move on, so I go catalog section, responsiveness.

B

B

So I was uh tasked to you know, make the catalog responsive so this this is how it was before um it was all overlaying stuff, uh and then I just had to make some tweaks and make it pop just make the flexbox work properly for a viewport, uh and then uh I I couldn't.

B

uh I couldn't apply the same pillow to that catalogs before, because I already have a pr that has a uh that. I've made changes to catalog as soon as that gets merged. I'll move to catalog as well, apart from the obvious I just have to you, know, uh just reduce the space in between here and uh yeah. I think that would be fine.

B

um So if any uh suggestions, I would love to hear it.

A

It looks better.

B

Yeah- and I also uh you know, removed this uh this animation when you click it will come, so that would be hard to figure out for the mobile user. So just let it uh stay like that. So I think that would be. Is that fine.

C

Yeah, but it's still it's still there right, you didn't remove it.

B

Oh yeah yeah, it's still ready all right um and about this animation. uh I think I feel that it's distracting or in the mobile view only it looks fine in this uh state uh in the normal uh desktop viewport.

B

uh I feel it's just my opinion that it feels kind of distracting uh when you're trying to read so about that.

C

Totally yeah, probably I think I mean since I I'm gonna respond since I put it there yeah I was just thinking around. I was just thinking around with uh see svg and css kind of starting off the catalog. Seeing what was you know, trying to help um inspire others to like do some animation and to show people how damn easy? It was because I've been blue in the face for months and months and months about like it takes like two lines of css.

C

You can do some amazing things um and so yeah you're right like it's. Actually it's nothing but a something to play with, even on the desktop. Having said that, if you leave the code or the scss, as is, I don't think that it will, if you're on a mobile and your mobile doesn't deal with on hover, then you're not going to see it anyway and it's of no consequence.

B

Yeah actually yeah yeah, okay,.

C

Cool, so from with respect to mobile view, it's a mute point. If you want to talk about it, okay, yep. I do think it's fair to call out its value on the desktop something we could chat through.

C

You know another time just because we're late on.

B

Yeah yeah, that's it from you! Thanks.

A

Yeah, that's great, thank you uh right so uh alpha our review on design spot respect for imports of commands.

B

D

All right, I hope it's food or any colors. Okay, so the past week I've been working on uh design spec of the measure, ctl app import command. So the main uh usage of this sub command is that if you have any kubernetes manifest or helm charts containing the application resources- and if you want to import into the mystery as such, then this command um should be used for it.

D

So I have been working on for the design spec and so that some changes are to be made uh in the content and finally thought I can introduce uh some of the changes like if the. If the application file is so for kubernetes, manifest or film, charts or token compose file, or if the user shares the file alone and uh couldn't think what the type of file is just for assumption, then the user can use the uh file sub command, or uh this last option I thought like.

D

If a user doesn't know or what kind of file it is and needs some like guidance, so uh using prompt, ui or any other prompt menu. Then he or she will go through the menu and does the if he get he or she gives any responses to the questions or option.

D

Then the minute will collect the responses and based on that, the application will get imported or if any um error has been spotted like say, instead of the part of the file the user has given instead of name, then the uh command will return such that hey, it's just the name of the app you've given and not the file path. Please give the correct file path like that or something so the implementation side.

D

I have started to work on from yesterday, but still um I need to make sure that if this design approach is uh right at all, that's what that's from my side. So any feedback, especially this one.

A

First thing that can you please provide the link to this pr in the original application, design spec, where we, where there is a structure and everything? Secondly, there would be changes to the onboard command as well, because right now onboard actually performs the import for you right. So now we would be how how would that affect.

D

Okay, since, uh if uh if say your application file is solved for kubernetes manifest and you have the cube and it is manifest alone, then you can just mention type yaman. So if type yaml has been typed, then instead of the film chart to yamask conversion, the command will directly import. The import into the application will be get imported instead of it. So if you get simultaneously, if you give a type helm, then first the hand chart will be converted into the yaml manifest and then it will get to the application will be get imported.

D

So that's the approach, I think thought so far um according to this, the design spec or is there any practice.

A

Yeah, so the import will return some uid or some name of that thing. So basically it would be a just like we showed in the ui. It would be a two-step process message: ctl app import, then hyphen, f, the yaml or the url. So, first of all uh here I'm only seeing the part to the file, but uh how? If someone wants to provide a url, will you be? You know like you in in case of cube cuttler, even in mestre ctl, the patent apply performs like this.

A

If you have http starting from stp, then we uh basically use that we take that not as a local file but as a remote file. In the same way, first question: would we use that uh hyphen f flag for the urls as well? Secondly, uh let's say that someone imported that thing and now they want to deploy it so now would that return the name of the file that now you want to message.

A

It will patent a message: ctl app, deploy the name of the file or put that in a unique uuid that message ctl this this this or the onboard command will have import plus that feature, and basically it will import it and then also deploy it or basically will those commands be a two-step thing or the onboard command would encapsulate import commands logic within it that so yeah. These are the places where thought needs to be given.

D

Okay, okay, I get it, I get it so the option to get the url file to be imported as well, and the second is if there, if the import command will include the features of the on board as well as the application will get deployed.

D

Yes, okay, the overall intention of the app import is to get the import the application to get import as well as deploy as well. So you know.

A

D

A

Don't I don't think import should I don't think import should deploy anything import should only mean that you imported it, and now that we have that file, and now you can do something with it. So now the second, so it makes sense to have basically on board, can be uh import plus deploy equals on board. That makes sense. Okay,.

D

A

Board on board, because right now on board, um what's the behavior right now, uh according to you with all of the onboard command, one thing, I'm sure of that it actually um converts that thing: it imports it the onboard command, actually imports it. Does it also go ahead and deploy the file as well.

D

Okay, I get your question so I guess, but regarding to this by design spec um we will we will. We will discuss about it in a separate meet and then we'll get your feedback. Then.

A

Does that sound okay yeah just provide the link in the original designs, but the application, design, spec and I'll.

D

Yeah sure great.

A

Yeah, so the last item is uh like we can cover two days for some reason.

A

The last item. We can sorry sorry, sorry, sir, I mean I cannot share. I have some problems, so uh I need to watch our demo on server server feedback on editing, it's context if we can uh cover it in the required.

A

B

Think someone else should go then, because my message server is not starting. My computer needs a restart I'll post, a video on the session.

D

C

Oh, I just to say the same thing that you were going to say, which is well. That is convenient since we're at the top of the hour and unless we, uh unless anyone has an urgent item, does anybody have anything urgent before we conclude for today.

C

uh One thing that we didn't call out that I know deborah prio wants to make an announcement about this friday.

B

Yeah, so we're planning to have a community meeting this friday after a long time and uh hopefully we'll uh make it a monthly affair so, every uh month month end, maybe the last week the community call for this week we have a presentation on github code spaces uh that we have planned, followed by uh some major highlights about messaging, uh the docker extension, a lot of other uh demos that we can have within the time that we have so please join in, and I hope it will be a great session.

C

You know one of the things um actually since you're here.

C

Not only has we demoed the docker extension since I know you spent some some time there we might want to talk about what's next, I think we've mentioned an item or two there's some work that aditya strategy has done on a mock-up for an extensions area within measuring and that root raj is giving consideration to about how to incorporate mesh free catalog as an extension uh part of that would include the ability to enable or disable measuring adapters.

C

That's something that's something to potentially expose inside of the extension, so anyway, things to discuss um on friday. So it sounds like we'll have a there's a full agenda: uh friday 10 a.m, central 8 a.m, pacific.

C

uh 8 30 p.m, pst or ist 8 30 p.m. Ist right! That's that's what time it is right now, yep, okay, okay, same time, yep so friday. At this time, be there be square or don't get a free code spaces invite, I guess we'll see. I don't know I was told github might do something or about that.

C

Okay! Well, great thanks for hosting today, abby um very nice to see all of you um thanks for making fun of my uh css animations right.

C

I was a little hurt, but okay, we'll see you guys all next time.

C

Bye. I'm actually sorry.

B

Bye, bye, bye, bye.

B