►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Okay,
good
morning
said
afternoon
here
it's
my
old
notes
good
morning,
everyone
and
welcome
to
the
meeting
of
the
corporate
governance
United
committee.
My
name
is
Council
Paul,
Ray
and
I
will
be
chairing
today's
meeting.
Today's
meeting
is
being
Live
cast
onto
the
council's
website,
so
the
public
can
observe
the
meeting
without
needing
to
be
present.
A
I
will
ask
officers,
members
of
public
are
watching
if
you
can
try
and
prevent
yourself
from
using
acronyms
and
abbreviations
to
make
sure
it
says,
open
and
transparent
to
the
public
as
possible.
I'll
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves.
So
please
remember
to
turn
your
microphone
off
once
you've
introduced
and
we'll
go
from
this
side
around.
A
A
So
moving
on
to
item
agenda
number
one.
M
Thank
you,
chair
I
turn
wondering
I
know
heels
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
under
gender
item.
Two.
There
are
no
late
items
under
gender
item
three.
There
are
no
formal
late
items,
however,
what
there
was
supplementary
information
which
was
in
relation
to
agenda
item
nine
Grant
Thornton
annual
report
and
value
for
money
findings,
20
20
21
and
this
has
been
circulated
to
members-
could
I
just
check
that
everybody
has
got
a
copy
of
that.
A
M
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
So
moving
on
to
item
agenda
six
and
seven.
First
of
all,
the
minutes
of
record
of
the
meeting
held
on
the
29th
of
July
I'm
I'm,
seeing
nods
so
I'll.
Take
that
as
a
yes
are
there
any
matters
arising
for
minutes
that
we're
aware
of.
A
F
Thank
you
chair.
Yes,
just
a
brief
update
in
terms
of
the
2021
accounts
process,
so
I'm
afraid
there's
been
no
progress
at
a
national
level
in
agreeing
a
way
forward
in
terms
of
the
technical
accounting
issue
in
terms
of
roads
and
other
infrastructure
assets.
So
we're
still
at
the
position
where
our
2021
statement
of
accounts
can't
be
finalized
Jets.
So
we're
hopeful
that
we
may
be
in
a
position
to
finalize
this
at
the
next
meeting
of
the
committee
in
late
November.
F
A
A
Let's
go
down
my
notes
to
do
so.
Item
agenda
number
eight
over
to
you,
David.
G
Thank
you,
Jay
I'm,
conscious
that
you've
got
a
very
busy
agenda
this
morning.
Would
you
like
me
to
take
you
through
some
headlines
of
the
report?
Gerald
just
opened
the
report
up
to.
A
N
Down
yeah
I'm,
sorry
I'm
gonna
be
a
breast
back
properly
yet,
but
there
are
particularly
in
the
case
of
listed
buildings
worries
in
my
mind
about
how
effective
our
enforcement
is.
This
legislation
isn't
helpful,
but
in
addition
we're
understaffed
it's
difficult
to
area
to
to
legislate
and
arguing
and
looking
back
I
can
see,
we've
lost
lots
of
buildings
that
we
needed
lost,
and
you
know
thinking
that
we
could
do
better.
A
There,
a
specific
audit,
related
question
and
corporate
governance
questionnaire
that,
rather
than
the
general
point
about
planning
because
remember
this
is
the
corporate
governance
and
Order
committee.
So
it's
about
our
processes
rather
than
whether
or
not
we
think
they've
done
enough.
We
would
like.
So
is
there
a
specific
question
in
relation
to
the
committee's
remit.
A
G
You
chair
I,
mean
just
just
on
the
point
you've
raised
counseling
with
I'm,
very
mindful
of
enforcement
issues
and
Staffing
levels.
In
particular,
we
have
sought,
through
various
iterations
of
recruitment,
to
Bull
Stroud
enforcement
service.
We
did
get
some
covid
relief
funding,
which
is
enormously
helpful
to
the
service
in
dealing
with
backlog
issues
and
certainly
a
very
large
caseload
in
terms
of
Enforcement
cases,
but
we
did
recruit
two
additional
posts
within
enforcement
to
try
and
Tackle
those
issues.
But
I
hear
what
you
say.
G
C
Yeah
I
was
going
to
ask
counselor
English
question
for
him,
but
but
the
same
point
goes
for
lots
of
other
things
that
planning
has
to
do
and
as
counselors
we
know,
you've
got
time
scales
to
hit
to.
Otherwise
people
can
actually
just
get
permission
and
it
just
runs
over,
which
means
that
we're
quite
vulnerable
to
poor
planning
decision
decisions
because
they're,
not
decisions,
they're,
actually
things
you
have
to
do
so,
I
suppose
from
a
corporate
audit
point
of
view.
C
Bearing
in
mind
you
now
do
the
pre-apps
and
and
there's
a
lot
more
work
involved.
Do
you
think
that
there's
enough
money
given
to
planning
to
actually
hit
all
the
the
functions
that
you
actually
have
as
a
department.
G
That's
a
good
question:
counselor
I
would
say
no,
although
we
are
obviously
doing
our
best
for
the
resources
we
have
available
to
us
and
the
measures
that
we've
introduced
to
try
and
streamline
the
system
and
to
improve
matters
to
get
a
quality
of
decision
and
the
outcomes
in
terms
of
the
the
pre-op
service.
I
think
that's
helpful
in
sort
of
front
loading
planning
matters,
so
we
get
an
early
site
of
applications
coming
into
the
system
and
the
policy
issues
associated
with
it,
etc,
etc.
G
Applicants
sometimes
don't
adhere
to
the
advice
we
give
it
to
pre-application
stage,
so
there
is
an
issue
there,
but
we
do
Endeavor
to
put
for
the
council's
policy
position
I
think
in
terms
of
resources
going
forward.
There
are
some
challenges
coming
down
the
line
as
part
of
the
government's
planning
reforms.
G
These
have
been
sort
of
announced
number
of
occasions,
but
the
most
recent
announcement
was
back
in
May
and
one
of
the
issues
is
around
sort
of
improved
digitization
of
planning
services
and
we're
very
mindful
of
the
need
for
that
infrastructure
to
be
put
in
place.
And
we
are
working
closely
with
our
colleagues
in
IDs
to
try
and
improve
our
back
office
systems
as
well
as
gearing
ourselves
up
for
these
future
changes.
But
there
are
pressures,
I,
think
elsewhere
across
the
council
as
well,
in
being
able
to
deliver
the
infrastructure
that
that
we
need.
Thank
you.
C
By
way
of
follow-up,
do
you
think
that
makes
us
quite
vulnerable
as
a
council,
because
we're
looking
at
buildings
similar
to
the
ones
councilor
illing
with,
was
talking
about
and
other
construction,
where
we've
got
safety,
potentially
safety
issues?
We've
got
our
green
agenda
climate
neutral
by
20
2030.,
and
all
this
relies
on
a
planning
system
that
actually
is
fit
for
purpose.
C
We
actually
front
load
neighborhood
plans.
We
we
give
money
to
communities
to
produce
their
own
neighborhood
plans
and
I'm,
assuming
they're,
still
supplementary
planning
documents.
So
there's
a
lot
of
Finance
goes
into
things
that
could
be
out
overshadowed
by
the
fact
we're
not
making
those
decisions
and
I
say
there
are
safety
issues
also
in
things
going
through
that
potentially
shouldn't
because
of
that
Staffing
issue.
C
So
there
was
a
question
in
there
somewhere
for
you,
but
basically
do
you
think
the
council
leaves
itself
quite
vulnerable
if
we
don't
get
these
decisions
made
in
a
timely
fashion.
G
I
think
in
terms
of
decision
making,
I
think
it's
a
valid
point.
You've
made
about
applicants
can
apply
for
go
to
appeal
on
the
basis
of
non-determination
of
applications,
and
that
is
a
risk
to
the
council
in
terms
of
potential
costs
or
reputational
damage.
If
we
do
not
meet
our
performance
targets,
it's
incumbent
on
the
council
and
on
the
planning
service
to
meet
National
performance
targets
like
I,
don't
want
those
targets.
Targets
to
drop
the
challenge
we've
had
in
recent
years
has
been
the
sort
of
backlogger
rising
through
Kobe.
G
We've
had
a
very
large
number
of
applications
through
the
system.
In
parallel
with
that,
we've
had
changes
to
National
planning
policy,
which
is
seeking
to
deregulate
parts
of
the
planning
system,
with
the
intention
of
trying
to
streamline
things
and
make
things
a
little
bit
easier,
I
think
that
is
challenging
because
often
those
National
changes
aren't
communicated
in
a
way
where
the
operational
detail
is
very
clear
when
those
announcements
are
made.
So
we
have
found
at
times
ourselves
inventing
processes
to
meet
National
requirements
which
haven't
been
clearly
set
out.
G
So
from
that
point
of
view
there
is
a
vulnerability
in
case.
There's
a
misinterpretation
or
there's
a
risk
of
potential
challenge,
but
I
think
I'm,
confident
that
there
are
enough
checks
and
balances
in
the
system
we
have
in
leads
and
the
level
of
scrutiny
and
the
oversight
that
we
are
trying
to
mitigate
all
of
those
risks.
C
A
And
that's
why,
when
it
was
said
that
the
council
about
the
report,
getting
governance
right
is
important,
because
otherwise
you
get
yourself
into
hot
bother.
Councilor
Flynn.
L
Thanks
I'm
sure
you'll
tell
me
if
this
isn't
Jermaine
to
this
particular
committee,
Paul
David,
it
can
planning
officers
conservation
officers,
make
a
decision
on
a
planning
operation
on
a
planning
application
without
actually
visiting
the
site.
When
there's
a
dispute
over
what
I'd
actually
say
about
the
application.
G
It
well,
it
depends
what
the
issue
is
I
mean
I
would
have
thought
if
they
were
particular
on-site
issues.
That
could
only
be
understood
by
visiting
the
site
rather
than
looking
at
it
through
Google,
Maps
or
whatever
it
might
be.
Then
it
would
be
better
for
those
officers
to
to
look
at
the
the
site
and
look
at
those
details.
So
we
do
allow
for
that
within
the
approach
that
we've
set
out.
L
The
particular
application
I'm
thinking
about
I
actually
asked
the
officers
to
meet
me
on
site.
I
was
told
that
basically,
that
didn't
happen
anymore
when
I
queried
it.
I
was
told
that
wasn't
the
case,
but
they
never
came
out
to
sort
of
beat
me
on
site.
G
Well,
if
you
want
to
come
back
to
me
outside
of
this
meeting,
Council
I'm
happy
to
look
at
that
before
you
understand
what
the
circumstances
are.
We
are
trying
to
streamline
our
processes
to
avoid
the
necessary
meetings
in
the
round
to
improve
our
efficiencies
and
to
meet
our
income
and
efficiency
targets,
but
we
have
never
said
that
we
would
not
meet
on
site
if
that
was
necessary.
A
I
mean
I
I
think
that's
what's
in!
That
probably
needs
to
Outsiders
to
make
a
specific
planning
issue,
but
if
it
does
raise
how
a
process
a
process
issue
in
terms
of
governance,
in
terms
of
how
that's
being
communicated
I,
think
there's
a
pertinent
question
to
be
there
and
I.
Think
there
needs
to
be
some
reassurance
that
the
right
information
is
going
to
elected
members,
so
that
they're,
aware
of
their
rights,
Etc,
counter
thousand
and
then
counselor
illingworth
and
then
I
want
to
move
on
to
the
next
agenda.
Because
we
are
quite
busy
yeah.
C
Just
just
a
quick
one
with
regard
to
sort
of
the
governance,
do
you
think
the
council
have
sufficient
protocols
in
place
with
regard
to
cross-departmental
working,
I'm
thinking,
specifically
around
highways
around
Forest?
There's
lots
of
areas
where
to
make
a
good
planning
decision.
You
need
a
good
relationship
and-
and
you
know,
rumor-
has
it
that
there's
quite
a
lot
of
Silo
working
in
getting
that
cooperation
sometimes
can't
be
easy,
am
I
right
or
wrong.
G
I
would
say
Council
that
we
have
good
working
relationships
with
colleagues
across
the
authority.
I
think
one
of
the
benefits
of
the
pre-app
process
is
to
embed
those
Technical
Services
in
planning
at
a
very
early
stage,
so,
for
example,
colleagues
in
highways,
environmental,
health
and
other
services,
and
then
the
applicant
can
get
a
very
joined
up
view
as
to
where
we
stand
as
an
authority
with
regard
to
particular
applications
that
isn't
to
say
that
some
of
the
services
that
feed
into
planning
haven't
had
their
own
pressures
in
terms
of
resources
and
capacity
issues.
G
But
I
know
some
adjustments
have
been
made
to
try
and
strengthen
those
and
again
it's
back
to
the
protocols
and
the
systems
we
have
in
place
to
make
those
areas
of
Engagement
effective,
there's
sort
of
the
formal
channels
in
terms
of
the
pre-app
processes
and
the
formal
consultation
as
part
of
applications.
But
I
do
encourage
my
officers
to
pick
up
the
phone
metaphorically
and
speak
to
to
colleagues,
because
it's
very
important
that
we
get
that
joined
view
in
taking
these
applications
forward.
N
If
that's
the
limit
for
this
committee,
because
I'm
aware
of
planning
the
disputes
where
the
applicant
had
used
the
map
in
his
deeds
as
the
basis,
it
wasn't
a
particularly
accurate,
hand-drawn
map
about
a
century
old
and
not
a
particularly
accurate
map,
and
that
was
his
spanning
application,
which
went
through
I
mean
there
was
it
was
accepted,
but
there
is
an
issue
sometimes
about
whether
the
drawings
that
people
submit
are
a
true
reflection
of
what
they
intend
to
do
and
disputes
arise
afterwards.
They
say:
map
quality,
isn't
good
enough.
A
G
Yeah
I
I,
don't
know
in
that
case
States
from
counseling
with,
but
we've
recently
updated
our
validation
criteria.
So
we
would
filter
out
so
to
speak,
any
plans
Maps
or
any
other
supplementary
information
that
wasn't
appropriate
or
if
it
was
inadequate,
we
would
deal
with
that
as
a
validation
stage.
A
G
It's
it's
done
manually
at
the
moment,
but
the
direction
of
travel
in
terms
of
the
government's
agenda
around
the
digitization
and
planning
Services
is
to
look
at
software
that
could
automate
the
simpler
applications.
If
that's
wouldn't
it
be
possible,
and
there
are
some
pilot
schemes
which
are
underway
up
and
down
the
country
and
I
think
the
findings
of
those
are
still
awaited
to
see
how
effective
they
are.
A
And
just
one
quick
follow-up
on
that
in
terms
of
the
from
a
Governor's
perspective
officers
within
the
department
trained
to
be
looking
at
those
documents
in
the
same
way,
so
that
actually
not
getting
very
subjective
decisions
where
one
of
them
may
say
well
that
map's
only
20
years
old,
so
I'll
use
that,
but
that
map's
50
years
old
in
the
case
Council
of
English
rate,
so
I
won't
use
that
how?
How
is
consistency
made
there
within
the
structure
so
that
actually
the
same
process
is
happening
again
and
again
and
again.
A
G
A
And
is
that
peer-reviewed
to
make
sure
that
they're
all
doing,
because
that's
what
I'm
trying
to
get
to
is
it's
very
well,
so
you
have
a
process
and
people
are
following
it.
How
are
you
evaluating
it
they're
following
that
process
because,
obviously
that's
been
it
and
then
I
think
councilor
worth
has
highlighted
the
case
is
that
is
it
being
inconsistently
and
how
are
you
checking
it's
being
done
consistently,
because
obviously
these
can
make
be
some
very
substantial
decisions
for
the
authority
and
for
the
applicants
in
question.
G
Yeah,
it
is
subject
to
regular
review
in
college
within
the
technical
services.
Team
are
always
chasing
service
improvements
where
we
can.
We
are.
We
have
a
very
open
and
regular
dialogue
with
core
cities,
and
we've
actually
had
a
recent
visit
from
colleagues
from
Birmingham
city
council
who
looked
at
our
validation,
saying
our
validation
work
as
well
as
enforcement.
So
we
do
share
best
practice
and
learn
from
elsewhere,
as
well
as
others
learning
from
leads
as
well.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
Are
there
any
other
questions
before
I
move
on
to
the
next
agenda
item?
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
time.
I
appreciate
you
quite
busy
so
you're
welcome
today,
but
I
appreciate.
You'll
you'll
probably
have
other
appointments
to
get
to
so
item
agenda
number.
Oh,
oh,
the
recommendation
gonna
be
excited
they're
trying
to
get
through.
A
Does
the
committee
agree
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
consider
and
note
the
positive
Assurance
provided
Industries
part
and
future
steps
to
provide
additional
Assurance
to
that
process.
I'll
take
silence
as
a
yes.
There
we
go.
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
Cheers.
Item
agenda,
number,
nine,
external
Auditors
annual
report
and
a
value
for
money
findings.
Richard.
A
Of
value
for
money
Arrangements
in
the
council.
B
Thumbs
up,
it
was
more
appropriate
if
I
pass
across
to
to
Grant
Thornton.
Thank
you.
J
Thank
you
Richard
and
good
morning.
Everybody
you
have
before
you
the
auditor's
annual
report.
This
is
a
new
report
for
2020-21
and
it
replaces
what
we
used
to
issue
previously,
which
was
the
annual
audit
letter.
It's
a
lot
more
detailed.
The
extent
of
vfm
work
that
we
undertake
and
it
follows
the
guidance
of
the
National
Audit
office
code
of
audit
practice,
three
particular
areas.
J
We
look
at
Financial
sustainability,
governance
and
improving
economy,
efficiency
and
Effectiveness,
and
for
the
first
year,
given
the
impact
of
covid,
we've
also
looked
at
the
Authority's
Arrangements
around
dealing
with
the
impact
of
covert
and
managing
that
area.
There
are
three
types
of
recommendations
that
we
can
actually
make.
J
The
lowest
form
is
an
improvement
recommendation
and
then
it
goes
up
to
key
recommendations
and
then
statutory
recommendations.
Key
recommendations
in
the
middle
is
the
one
where
there
are
significant
weaknesses
and
I'm
pleased
to
report
that
we've
identified
no
key
recommendations
or
significant
weaknesses
from
our
work.
J
Obviously,
the
authority
is
under
a
lot
of
financial
pressures,
given
the
financial
situation
across
the
economy,
but
also
impacting
on
most
local
authorities
and
I
think,
particularly
so,
with
the
high
level
of
inflation
and
the
impact
that's
having
on
energy
costs
and
pay
costs
at
Leeds,
but
across
all
local
government
and
the
public
sector.
J
Two
one
of
the
areas
that
we've
particularly
looked
at
is
benchmarking
leads
against
other
Metropolitan
authorities
just
to
see
how
you're
performing
in
the
pack
and
that's
identified
a
couple
of
areas,
particularly
around
reserves,
which
is
something
that
we've
reported
in
previous
years,
that
we
believe
that
perhaps
they're
not
where
they
should
be,
and
perhaps
The
Authority
considers
increasing
them,
which
we
know
the
chief
financial
officers
of
financial
services
is
working
on
to
to
increase
going
forward
and
the
other
area
that
came
out
of
the
benchmarking
work
is
the
level
of
long-term
borrowings
as
a
percentage
of
your
long-term
assets,
or
indeed,
looking
at
as
a
percentage
of
your
grants
and
other
income
with
other
authorities,
which
is
another
area
that
we've
identified.
J
A
C
It
is
from
the
appendix
and
it's
page,
55
6.1
I'm,
assuming.
That
is
something
that
and
it's
with
regard
to
over
things
that
are
overdue
and
Children
and
Families
seem
to
come
up
as
having
a
lot
of
reports
that
are
overdue.
C
What
are
the
risks
involved
in
not
being
prompt
in
providing
reports
if
things
are
overdue?
How
long
before,
okay.
A
Good
to
have
a
bit
of
pre-whelming
any
other
questions
or
comments
on
this
particular
report.
Okay,
there
we
go
well.
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
I
know.
I
need
to
do
the
recommendation
bit.
Yes,
I
always
keep
forgetting
recommendation
about
it
because
it's
eager
to
get
through
it.
Does
the
committee
agree
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
receive
the
annual
orders
report
presented
by
Grant
Thorton
and
to
note
the
recommendations
for
improvement,
which
has
been
made
I'll,
take
silence
as
acceptance
there
we
go.
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
A
That's
greatly
appreciated.
So
item
number
10
internal
audit
report,
Jonathan
I,
believe
this
is
yours.
I
Okay,
given
the
agenda
size,
would
you
like
me
to
give
a
little
to
all
through
the
report,
with
it
being
a
slightly
different
format,
or
would
you
like
it
to
take
it
to
the
red
we'll.
A
Take
it
as
read
and
open
it
to
the
questions,
which
is
obviously
the
the
important
bit.
So
any
questions
are
coming.
Councilor
Dawson.
C
You
should
say
that
yeah,
it
is,
reports
are
really
important
and
they
take
a
lot
of
time
to
actually
write
so
I
appreciate.
This
has
taken
an
awful
lot
of
work
and
most
most
parts
of
the
council
actually
because
of
the
sort
of
swinging
cuts
that
we've
had
are
quite
under
resourced.
So
this
is
by
no
means
a
criticism,
but
it's.
C
It
is
a
an
honest
question
with
regard
to
reporting,
because
you
do
have
a
6.1
a
list
of
high
and
medium
priority
recommendations,
so
somebody's
taking
the
time
to
actually
go
through
something
and
make
a
recommendation
which
you
would
expect
to
be
acted
on
relatively
promptly.
Otherwise
it
wouldn't
have
been
raised,
and
you
know,
you've
got
some
The
Columns
here
are
quite
good,
not
not
due
yet
and
so
on,
but
that
there
are
some
that
are
overdue,
but
it
doesn't
tell
us
how
overdue
I
mean
we're
all
guilty.
C
I
was
at
University
Writing
my
reports
at
the
very
last
minute
and
sometimes
missing.
The
deadline
are
we
talking
about
and
how
important
do
you
feel
is
that
these
are
done
promptly
and
what
do
you
think
as
a
as
a
consequence,
we
could
perhaps
put
in
place
as
a
as
a
corporate
team
to
make
sure
that,
when
reports
are
recommended
that
they
are,
are
actually
done
and
received
and
responded
to.
I
Thank
you
and
totally
agree
to
be
honest
on
on
the
importance
of
these
recommendations.
Like
I
say
this
is
a
hugely
important
process.
I
would
add
that
this
is
the
very
first
time
that
we've
gone
into
the
recommendation
tracking
process
and
I
think
it's
important
to
take
that
information
in
the
context
that
we
are
still
getting
used
to
it.
I
I
think
we
are
as
a
service,
so
are
the
Departments
they're
responsible
for
filling
in
The
Trackers,
and
just
because
something
isn't
marked
as
Complete,
because
the
onus
is
on
the
service
area
to
Mark
those
as
complete,
they
ultimately
own
the
control
environment
and
they
are
their
recommendations
to
make
it
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
there
haven't
been
implemented
just
because
it
hasn't
been
updated.
It
may
be
symptomatic
of
the
fact
that
we
are
still
working
on
this
process
to
get
it
right
in
terms
of
getting
it
to
the
right
people
at
the
right
time.
I
Sometimes,
for
example,
reports
will
have
been
issued
very
late
in
the
period
which
gives
little
chance,
so
so
we
will
be
continuing
to
work
on
that,
but
I
think.
As
you
say,
you
can't
understate
the
importance
of
it.
This
is
the
control
environment
of
the
council
and
we
are
making
high
in
medium
priority
recommendations
for
a
reason
here,
and
obviously
we
do
expect
engagement
with
that.
I
think
we
allude
to
in
the
report
that,
as
we
established
this
further,
we
will
be
bringing
in
a
sample
checking
process
as
well
and
I.
I
Think
we
can
reassure
you
further
that
where
these
relate
to
something
where
we've
given
a
limited
opinion,
then
we
also
formally
follow
up.
Follow
that
up
with
another
audit
in
that
area
to
be
able
to
to
double
check
what
has
happened
there
so
I
think
overall,
like
I,
say
you're,
seeing
very
much
that
the
results
are
are
a
mixed
picture.
I
I
don't
want
to
get
too
much
into
individual
recommendations
relating
to
specific
reports,
but
I
think
we
we
do
expect
to
see
further
engagement
as
we
go
along
with
this,
but
we
see
this
as
very
valuable
information
for
yourselves
as
members
of
the
committee,
and
we
also
certainly
know
the
importance
of
it
and
keep
promoting
that.
So
so
we'll
continue
to
work
on
that
with
the
services
across
the
council.
C
C
You
know
if
you
issue
a
report
on
on
Wednesday
and
the
reporting
period
is
Friday
you're
not
going
to
get
a
report,
but
that
wouldn't
be
red
rag
rated,
because
that
hasn't
been
ticking
over
so
it'd
be
quite
interesting,
I
suppose
in
in
the
longer
term,
to
actually
break
this
down
into
ones
that
are
seriously
overdue
other
and
that
are
high
and
put
the
council
at
risk,
as
opposed
to
ones
that
really
are
just
process.
K
Thanks
Jonathan
I
think
that's
you've
still
my
question
so
so
that's
great
and
I
do
have
a
follow-on
question
to
that,
though
Jonathan,
if
I
may
so,
you've
got
the
column
there
for
high-end
medium
priority
recommendations
which
again
I
think
is
great.
You
know,
I
I
asked
this
question
a
long
time
ago
and
I'm
really
pleased
to
see
this
information
it.
It
does
beg
further
questions
and-
and
we
do
have
to
be
careful
as
an
audit
committee,
that
we
don't
get
sucked
into
the
detail
because
that's
your
area
and
and
that's
great.
K
However,
my
question
is
on
the
high
priority
ones.
Is
there
anything
that
we
should
be
worried
about
as
an
audit
committee,
and
if
there
is
then,
would
you
be
bringing
that
to
us
and
and
linked
linked
to
that?
K
Sorry
is
once
you've
got
this
embedded
because
I
appreciate
that
it's
new
and
and
you're
working
on
getting
the
data
up
to
date,
but
once
you've
got
this
embedded,
do
you
have
or
do
you
propose
to
have
an
escalation
process
for
when
these
Pro
you
know
the
medium
and
highs
do
go
so
far
overdue
that
you
do
become
worried
and
then
we
can
be
satisfied
that
that
processes
is
working
properly.
Thank
you
can.
H
I,
take
that
one
Linda,
so
I
think
the
first
question
was:
should
we
be
worried?
The
answer
as
today
is
no.
The
second
question
was:
do
I
think:
do
we
have
a
process
where
we
escalate?
H
We
are
forming
that
because,
obviously
we
said
it's
we're
currently
trying
to
embed
the
process.
So,
yes,
we
will
be
escalating
internally
and
obviously
to
members.
We
will
also.
So
what
was
the
other
bits
of
the
question?
There
was
lots
of
questions
in
the
question.
Sorry.
K
H
Because,
obviously,
my
overriding
aim
is
is
to
get
a
sound
control
environment
and,
if
I
had
concerns
that
this
was
being
compromised
in
any
way
if
I'd,
exhausted,
all
opportunities
internally.
Obviously
I
would
come
to
members
on
the
chair.
N
I'm
aware
that
there
are
some
legislative
things
about
what
you
can
see,
what
you
can't
see
but
I'd,
like
you
to
say,
a
bit
more
about
what
the
public
can
do
in
participating
in
the
audit
process,
whether
they
can
take
information
away
how
confidential
their
council's
accounts
are
and
all
the
issues
that
arise
in
that
sort
of
interface
between
public
research
and
the
council's
decided
to
run
an
efficient
operation
at
reasonable
cost.
E
I
can
take
the
external
audit
element
of
that
chair
if
I
may
counselor
in
with
so
in
terms
of
the
Public's
rule
in
the
external
audit
process.
In
terms
of
inspecting
the
accounts
that
that
is
a
formal
process,
it
does
exist,
so
the
draft
accounts
are
what's
called
put
on
deposit
for
for
public
information
and
members
of
the
public
within
the
Leeds
Borough.
E
If
they're
on
the
Electoral
register
can
raise
an
objection
to
the
accounts
and
question
the
external
auditor,
they've
got
a
30
working
day
period
to
do
that
and
that's
now
concluded
I
think
it
was
mid-september
it
finished.
Didn't
it
marry
off
the
top
of
my
head.
We
didn't
receive
any
formal
queries
this
year,
but
nevertheless
you
know
these
do
arise
from
time
to
time.
We
would
then
you
know,
consider
whether
they're
a
valid
objection
or
not
and
then
potentially
take
that
forward.
But
it's
not.
E
There
have
been
no
sort
of
formal
objections
received
in
terms
of
this
year's
audit.
N
I
was
thinking
not
so
much
in
terms
of
objections,
because
I'm
sure
our
accounts
are
pretty
good,
actually
and
and
isn't
the
same,
but
the
perfectly
reasonable
academic
research
on
on
say,
for
example,
Health
outcomes,
and
you
want
to
know
the
authority
is
spending
in
particular
areas.
The
city
that
sort
of
thing
is
entirely
legitimate
bit
of
politics.
How
would
you
do
it?
I.
E
Think
Mary
may
have
a
view
on
this,
but
I
think
in
the
in
the
accounts
or
the
covering
sort
of
wording
where
the
accounts
are
on
the
website
that
there
is
the
possibility
of
you
know,
raising
questions
to
officers
on
the
accounts.
You
know
as
I
understand
it.
Members
of
public
you
know
can
can
ask
for
that
information,
potentially
through
a
an
foi,
but
there
is
a
more
formal
route
to
question
the
external
auditor.
N
If
before
a
decision
has
been
taken,
the
council's
financial
position
is
protected,
because,
obviously
it
appears
the
tendering
process.
If
the
people
who
are
tendering
are
aware
of
what
your
cash
limit
is
and
so
I
understand
it
and
often
see
instance,
where
the
council
has
declined
to
publish
the
figures,
because
it's
a
live
decision
and
we
haven't
taken
it
yet
and
and
so
forth.
Does
that
lapse?
What
happens
with
say
five
years
down
the
line
or
or
is
there
something
which,
which
is
a
permanent
restriction
on
accident.
B
Thank
you,
I
I.
Once
the
contract's
been
let
and
the
contracts
in
place,
then
it
it
is
published
and
then
what
we
do
do
is
any
transaction
over
500
pounds.
We
publish
that
as
well
on
the
data
Mill,
so
it
is
very
transparent
on
what's
Happening
the
reason
why
we
don't
publish
that
information
while
negotiations
are
going
on
is
because
it's
commercially
sensitive
and
coding
P
the
outcome
of
that
kind
track
negotiation
if
the
supplier
knew
how
much
we'd
got
in
set
aside
to
fund
that
yeah.
Okay.
Thank
you.
C
Yeah,
it's
just
a
quick
one
with
regard
to
your
customer
satisfaction
questionnaire
by
Assurance
block
and
you
haven't,
got
a
column
there
for
counselors,
bearing
in
mind
we
have
sort
of
overview
over
a
lot
of
these
different
departments
that
are
reporting
back
to
you
anyway.
I'm
just
wondering
if
there's
any
value
in
having
the
views
of
counselors
with
regard
to
the
audit
process
and
the
spending
on
on
these
different
departments,.
I
I
think
there
is
yes.
Traditionally,
we've
reported
this
on
the
work
that
we've
carried
out
within
each
Assurance
block,
so
that
is
each
area
of
audit
activity,
but
I
think
very
much
yes.
There
would
be
some
merits
in
in
asking
yourselves
and
councils
and
members
for
for
feedback
about
our
service
as
well,
so
another
one
that
we
can
consider
there.
A
K
Thank
you
just
a
quick
one
on
page
70
Jonathan
on
your
internal
audit
productivity,
there's
a
couple
of
items
on
there
that
look
like
you're
a
little
bit
behind
where
you
expect
it
to
be,
for
example,
ICT
and
information
governance.
This
is
on
the
back,
the
bar
graph
and
financial
systems.
Do
you
have
a
plan
to
catch
those
up,
or
is
it
purposely
a
little
bit
behind.
I
I
think
they
were
expected
at
this
stage
to
be
a
little
bit
behind.
The
plan
is
profiled
over
the
course
of
the
year,
and
sometimes
we
will
have
to
put
more
resource
into
certain
areas,
so
there
are
plans
to
catch
up
in
those
areas,
and
I
would
expect
that
by
the
time
we
come
back
to
yourselves
with
the
next
update
report.
Next
time
you
will
see
a
rebalancing
in
those
areas,
specifically
all
right.
D
Thank
you.
It's
really
again
a
pace,
70s,
really
reassuring,
to
see
that
a
lot
of
emphasis
is
basically
paid
on
the
anti-fraud
and
corruption
with
regards
to
time
and
and
effort,
and
whatever
year,
which
is
great.
My
questions
with
regards
to
the
the
the
businesses
call
with
grant
funding
that
we
had
and
we
had
quite
a
large
amount
in
terms
of
people
who
committed
fraud
and
whatever
you
say
in
terms
of
recovery
where,
where
we
at
with
regards
to
that,
thank
you.
B
A
Any
other
questions
or
comments
before
I
go
into
the
recommendations.
Okay,
so
does
the
committee
agree
that
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
a
receive
the
internal
order,
update
report
covering
the
period
from
June
to
August
2022,
and
note
that
work
undertaken
by
internal
audit
During
the
period
covered
by
the
report?
I'll
take
silence
as
a
yes,
okay,
B
note
that
there
have
been
no
limitations
in
scope
and
nothing
has
arisen
to
compromise
the
independence
of
the
internal
audit
During.
A
The
period
of
the
report
take
silence
again
as
a
yes
and
C
receive
the
report
providing
information
relating
to
the
monitoring
of
urgent
decisions
covering
the
period
June
to
August
2022
again,
I'll
take
silence
as
a
yes.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
that.
Moving
on
to
item
number
11
internal,
odd
report
and
opinion
Louise,
foreign.
H
Thanks
chair
again,
would
you
like
me
to
take
this
as
being
read
and
open
it.
L
On
page
90,
could
you
perhaps
give
us
a
little
more
information
on
the
on
the
table?
You've
got
there,
particularly
with
regard
to
the
tracking
of
these
issues.
H
Thank
you
counselor
again,
it's
part
of
the
embedding
of
the
new
process.
I
think
we've
covered
that
quite
extensively
in
the
update
report.
Is
there
any
particular
questions
around
any
of
the
areas
you'd
like
to
ask.
L
Really
you're,
depending
on
the
track,
is
to
actually
provide
the
information,
rather
than
actually
digging
it
out
yourself.
My
apologies.
If
that
sounds
a
bit
blunt,
but
you're
relying
on
people
to
give
you
the
information,
you're,
actually
checking
on.
H
C
Yeah
on
the
on
the
subject
of
sample,
checking
and
probably
a
completely
different
attack,
and
who
knows,
I
might
be
correcting.
It
might
not
be
for
this
meeting.
But
it's
with
regards
to
procurement.
I
know
we.
We
always
have
issues
with
regard
to
procurement,
because
nine
times
out
of
ten
either
your
local
councilor
who's
asked
for
something
to
be
done
or
a
local
resident
or
a
local
business
will
say
how
much
because
they
could
have
done
it
cheaper
or
got
it
cheaper.
C
We
had
a
kitchen
refurbishment
at
one
of
our
centers
that
that
was
initially
quoted
at
three
times.
What
a
national
kitchen,
fitter,
quoted
and
I'm
just
wondering
how
many
checks
and
balances
we
have
in
place
with
our
recognized
providers
to
make
sure
that
there
there
is
a
level
of
transparency,
so
people
can
be
assured
that
they're
actually
getting
best
value,
which
doesn't
mean
cheapest,
but
it
means
what
it
says.
The
best
value.
I
So
in
the
first
instance
the
onus
is
very
much
on
the
contract
management
function,
so
every
contract
across
the
council
will
have
a
contract
manager
or
contract
managers,
and
a
big
part
of
that
role
obviously
is
around
checking
the
information
that
comes
through
regularly
on
that
contract
and
being
able
to
stringently
check
those
invoices
that
come
through
and
be
able
to
give
Assurance
through
that
that
we
are
not
being
charged
more
than
we
should
be
through
the
contract,
because
you
are
right.
I
This
is,
of
course,
a
big
risk
that
all
public
sector
organizations
will
face.
We
also
have
essential
procurement
function
and
I
know.
The
head
of
procurement
was
obviously
here
at
the
last
committee
to
give
an
update
on
the
role
that
they
play
in
there,
but
we
also,
as
an
internal
audit
function,
devote
a
substantial
portion
of
our
plan
towards
procurement
activity
So.
Within
that
we
will
look
at
particular
areas,
so
we
do
particular
contract
management
coverage,
for
example.
I
So
we
will
look
in
detail
at
a
particular
contract
Arrangement
and
again
that's
to
make
sure
that,
in
the
way
that
that
has
been
procured,
it's
gone
through
the
right
process
that
it's
expected
to,
but
very
much
in
the
management
of
that
contract,
that
there
are
processes
in
place
that
are
working
to
make
sure
that
people
are
providing
that
challenge
each
time
an
invoice
comes
in.
So
we
will
look
in
detail
at
particular
contracts
or
risk
areas.
I
I
would
say
on
that
note
always
there
if
there
are,
if
there
are
particular
areas
that
you
have
concerns
about,
we
would
welcome
those
so
that
we
can
consider
that
within
our
contract
management
coverage,
what
does
I
say?
A
substantial
focus
of
our
plan
is
in
that
area
because
we
do
recognize
the
risk
of
it
and
that's.
They
are
that
kind
of
the
layers
of
assurance
that
you
can
take
that
there
are
checks
to
challenge
those
particular
types
of
instances.
C
So
somebody
giving
a
getting
a
contract
saying
they
can
do
X,
Y
and
Z
and
gradually
bit
by
bit,
because
the
cost
of
Steel's
gone
up,
or
this
has
gone
up.
All
that
which
are
justifiable,
and
you
can
actually
quantify
those
if
they're
different
to
the
to
the
assessment
that
they
gave
in
the
first
place.
But
often
it
isn't.
So
there
is
a
level
of
value
engineering
that
goes
on
and
I'm
wondering
at
what
point.
We
actually
look
at
that
value
engineering
or
is
it
through
the
managers
that
you've
you've
mentioned?
A
A
So
there
we
go,
I
will
just
one
very,
very
quick
question:
we've
talked
about
external:
what
about
internal
Contracting,
so
we
have
departments
that
contracted
to
departments
and
internal
inflation
within
the
system,
for
departments
trying
to
cover
each
other's
budgets.
I'm
not
going
to
ask
for
a
full
detailed
question
now
and
response
now,
but
we
can
also
have
a
briefing,
though,
on
actual
internal
procurement
within
itself
and
how
preventing
internal
inflation
within
the
system.
I
Happy
to
come
back
with
that
information
and
just
to
assure
you
that
within
our
contracts,
procedurals
the
first
step
of
any
decision
to
get
something
is
to
go
to
the
internal
service
provider
first
to
try
and
keep
that
money
within
the
council.
So
we
will
come
back
with
more
information
to
you,
but
that
is
very
much
the
first
step
in
any
decision.
A
Okay,
so
going
on
to
the
recommendation,
then,
does
the
committee
agree
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
receive
the
internal
audit
report
and
opinion
for
2021
2022
and
note
that
the
opinion
given,
in
particular
on
a
that,
based
on
the
audio
work
undertaken
for
the
20
21
2022
internal
audit
plan,
the
internal
control
environment,
including
the
key
financial
systems,
risks
and
governance,
is
well
established
and
operating
effectively
in
practice.
I'll
take
silence
as
a
gone.
Sorry.
A
A
A
This
is
a
long
one
that
the
work
undertaken
to
support
the
opinion
has
been
conducted
in
accordance
with
an
established
methodology
that
promotes
quality
and
comfort
conformance
with
the
ins
in
the
the
in
international
standards
for
the
professional
practice
of
internal
audit
ippf,
and
the
committee
is,
is
also
asked
to
note
that
there
have
been
no
limitations
in
scope
and
nothing
has
arisen
to
compromise
the
independence
of
the
internal
Earth
audit.
During
the
report,
if
I
ever
have
to
say
that
again,
it
will
be
too
soon
I'll
take
silence.
I'll.
B
This
is
the
annual
governance
statement
which
has
been
brought
or
is
being
brought
back
to
committee
following
the
period
on
public
deposit.
There
were
no
questions
or
comments
raised
by
the
public.
It
has
been
updated
with
the
annual
audit
opinion
from
internal
audit
and
the
value
for
money
opinion
coming
from
external
audit
that
you've
received
and
agreed
today.
So
it's
asking
the
committee
to
approve
the
final
annual
governance
statement,
which
will
then
be
published
with
the
accounts
in
due
course.
A
Like
you
said
just
bearing
in
mind,
we've
gone
over
those
additional
bits
already
in
this
committee.
Are
there
any
other
questions
or
comments
on
that
before
we
go
to
the
recommendation?
No
fantastic,
so
to
the
recommendation.
Does
the
committee
agree
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
approve
the
2022
annual
government
statement,
including
the
action
plan
for
2022
I'll,
take
silence
as
a
yes,
there
we
go
fantastic
item
number
13,
a
grandfather
and
audit
plan,
2021
2022.
E
Thank
you,
chair,
I'll,
take
this
and
just
keep
the
introduction
relatively
brief.
I'll
just
try
one
or
two
key
messages
on
page
180
of
your
pack
section
two
headed
up
introduction
and
headlines.
So
this
audit
plan
is
looking
at
the
key
areas
of
focus
for
our
audit
work
for
the
2122
accounts
audit.
E
So,
as
as
you've
already
heard
from
Mary
we're
nearly
there
in
terms
of
the
completion
of
the
2021
annual
accounts,
there
is
the
national
issue
around
accounting
for
infrastructure,
so
your
roads
and
bridges
where
there's
a
national
issue,
that's
trying
to
get
to
a
point
of
resolution,
hopefully
before
the
end
of
this
year.
In
addition
to
that
point,
there's
a
couple
of
valuation
areas
around
your
pension
fund
and
and
assets
that
we're
currently
working
through
with
with
Finance
colleagues
but
essentially
the
2021
audit
is,
is
virtually
complete.
E
This
plan
is
now
looking
at
the
the
2122
external
audit
process,
so
our
significant
risks
in
terms
of
the
accounts
audit
in
common
with
previous
years,
are
around
the
key
areas
of
your
balance
sheet
that
are
subject
to
significant
judgments
and
assumptions,
and
they
are
the
big
values
in
your
balance
sheet.
So
the
valuation
of
your
London
buildings,
your
Council
dwellings
and
your
share
of
the
West
Yorkshire
pension
fund
and
then
in
addition
to
that,
the
usual
standard,
significant
risk
of
management
override
of
control.
E
So
where
are
those
areas
of
the
accounts
where
management
potentially
could
manipulate
the
financial
position
and
that's
a
significant
risk
across
all
audits
in
all
sectors?
It's
not
not
unique
to
Lead
City
Council.
Our
materiality
calculation
based
on
the
draft
2122
accounts
is
broadly
in
line
with
the
prior
year
at
just
less
than
27
million.
So
we
don't
owed
it
to
the
penny.
We
owed
it
to
a
level
of
materiality
to
make
sure
that
the
accounts
are
clear
from
material
misstatement,
the
value
for
money,
Arrangements
review.
E
Clearly
that
will
be
taking
place
again
so
paminda's,
just
taking
you
through
the
the
prior
year
report.
So
for
2122,
we're
hoping
to
report
that
to
this
committee
in
February
and
again
there'll
be
a
review
around
your
financial
position,
your
governance
and
your
Performance
Management
Arrangements,
just
over
the
page
in
terms
of
the
logistics
on
page
181,
so
the
planning
for
the
2122
has
been
performed
in
the
summer.
E
We're
expecting
that
audit
to
commence
this
month
and
work
through
to
into
the
new
year
and
providing
we
can
get
that
old
year.
Audit
concluded
and
we're
hoping
to
conclude
the
current
year,
2122
audit
by
the
end
of
February
and
Isa
260
report
that
we
produce
on
the
accounts
for
2122
again
he's
planned
to
come
to
this
Committee
in
February.
The
audit
fee
he's
subject
to
psaa
approval.
That's
the
regulatory
body
that
oversees
the
local
government
audit
contracts
and
essentially
the
fee,
is
in
line
with
with
the
prior
year.
A
Any
questions
or
comments,
yeah
Council
illingworth.
N
Who
deal
with
multi-year
contracts
and
falling
behind
schedule?
It
often
happens
with
big
contracts.
They
almost
expect
them
to
be
the
highest
schedule
and
obviously,
last
minute
decisions
which
yeah
the
things
are
going
to
be
counted
in.
Is
there
a
sort
of
procedure
for
D
I'm
sure
there
is
a
position?
What
is
the
procedure
for
dealing
with
this
so
that
that
you
get
continuity
and
Assurance.
H
E
J
E
Year
end,
do
you
mean,
in
terms
of
the
the
delivery
of
the
audit
contract
by
Grant
Thornton
to
the
council,
or
do
you
mean
contracts
that
the
council
has
with
other
organizations.
E
So
yeah,
so
that's
yeah,
good
question,
so
there
will
be.
You
know,
contracts
that
are
you
know,
multi
multi-year
and
obviously
you
know
the
finance
team
Sean.
You
know
may
wish
to
comment.
They
will
go
through
the
accounting
requirements
for
that,
in
line
with
the
appropriate
accounting
standards
in
terms
of
what
should
be
recognized
in
year,
one
what's
a
future
year.
E
Recognition
and
differences
in
terms
of
you
know
how
income
elements
are
recognized
as
opposed
to
the
expenditure
side
of
things,
there's
different
sort
of
thresholds
and
in
terms
of
the
recognition
criteria.
So
in
essence
you
know
a
lot
of
accounting
standards.
In
recent
years,
Council
earlyworth
have
looked
to
recognize
the
costs
early
so
that
they're
not
delaying
bad
news.
E
If
you
like
to
to
put
it
in
simple
terms,
so
the
finance
team
will
go
through
that
they'll
review,
the
accounting
against
the
accounting
standards,
the
sit
for
code
of
practice
for
for
accounting
and
local
government
and
any
sort
of
key
material
ones.
E
They
will
form
part
of
a
regular
dialogue
with
with
Victoria
and
Richard
and
Mary
that
pamindra
and
I,
and
our
team
have
to
make
sure
that
the
judgments
that
the
finance
team
are
reaching
on
those
key
contracts
look
reasonable
and
materially
appropriate
to
us
and
then
obviously
we'll
come
along
subsequent
to
that
to
audit
them
in
in
some
detail.
So
there
is
a
process
in
place
that
obviously
commences
with
with
his
Finance
colleagues
looking
at
these
contracts
and
then
engaging
with
us
and
then
us
coming
along
to
do
the
detailed
audit
thereafter.
N
E
As
you
know,
a
customer
review
on
the
training
session
that
we
did
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
I
mean
not
just
going
contracts
per
se,
but
you
know
there's
a
it's
quite
a
challenging
environment.
In
terms
of
you
know,
auditing
of
local
Authority
councils
and
a
number
of
are
well
aware
of.
Thank
you.
Council
Nelson.
C
Yes,
you're
always
strong
when
you
look
at
reports
or
something
that's,
a
significant
risks
identified
and
you
sort
of
put
your
your
sort
of
scouting
hat
on
and
see
what
these
are
and
what
you've
put
in
place
to
make
sure
those
risks
are
mitigated.
So
that's
quite
an
interesting
one
and
thank
you
for
that.
I
wanted
just
to
ask
a
question
about
valuation
of
land
and
buildings,
including
Council
dwellings,
because
you've
got
a
level
it's
every
five
years.
C
It
says
here
that
they're
actually
assessed
I'm
assuming
a
that's
on
a
rolling
program,
but
what
recommendations
could
come
out
of
that
because,
whilst
land
appreciates
in
value
normally,
but
there
is
an
element
of
depreciation
as
well,
occasionally,
especially
with
buildings,
if
they're
not
maintained,
properly
and
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
So
at
what
point?
Or
is
it
part
of
this
process
that
aware
of
depreciation
because
of
lack
of
maintenance
comes
to
light,
and
that
is
highlighted
to
whoever
that
needs
to
be
highlighted
to
to
get
that
resolved?.
E
Thank
you
very
much,
Council
Nelson
for
that
question.
The
the
the
valuation
of
London
buildings
is
such
a
huge
area
of
our
external
audit
work.
There's
an
awful
lot
of
work
that
goes
on
by
the
council
staff.
E
You,
the
council
employs
its
own
specialist
valuers,
both
internal
to
the
council
and
in
some
cases
external,
and
they
will
give
their
expert
view
around
making
sure
that
the
different
elements
of
land
buildings,
Council
dwellings,
are
appropriately
valued
at
each
31st
of
March
year
end
it's
an
increasing
area
of
focus
for
external
audit
over
recent
years,
and
particularly
for
our
Regulators
who
review
our
work.
E
E
There
are
certain
challenges
within
that,
because
certain
different
types
of
land
and
different
types
of
buildings
are
valued
in
a
slightly
different
way
and
they
are
subject
to
a
lot
of
assumptions
and
any
changes
in
those
assumptions
that
could
be
relatively
small
changes
in
assumptions
when
you
spread
that
out
across
the
the
asset
base
on
an
authority,
the
side
of
the
size
of
leads
that
could
very
quickly
become
a
material
change
and
obviously,
as
soon
as
the
material
change
as
Auditors,
we
need
to
make
sure
we're
comfortable
that
otherwise
I
couldn't
issue
a
clean
opinion
on
your
accounts.
E
So,
in
terms
of
you
know,
the
the
you
know
the
focus
and
potential
risk
that
could
go
wrong.
You
know
we
could
identify
assets
that
we
think
that
that,
on
our
review,
you
know
don't
appear
to
be
valued
appropriately
and
that
will
lead
to
further
challenging
questioning
of
of
of
the
finance
team
of
the
valuer,
and
that
and
that
process
you
know
is,
is
quite
a
key
element
of
our
overall
audit
work.
We
probably
spend
I'd
say
around
a
third
to
forty
percent
of
our
external
audit
time.
E
Looking
at
the
valuation
of
your
London
buildings
and
your
share
of
the
West
Yorkshire
pension
fund
as
a
pension
fund
liability,
because
there's
such
huge
numbers
on
your
balance
sheet
and
as
I
say
they
are
subject
to
such
fluctuations
and
assumptions.
What
I
would
say
is
that
any
movements
in
the
valuation
of
your
London
buildings,
appreciation
or
or
even
reducing
in
value
they
don't
ultimately
trickle
down
into
the
usable
reserves
of
the
council.
E
There's
a
complex,
well,
there's
a
there's,
a
methodology
of
accounting
in
local
government
that
reverses
how
the
Char
the
impairment
of
those
assets.
The
writing
down
of
those
assets,
are
effectively
reversed
out
before
it
impacts
on
council
tax
levels
and
your
usable
reserves
that
Victoria
can
use
for
for
the
overall
running
of
the
authority,
but
because
they
are
such
high
value
areas
and
because
our
regulator
is
really
challenging.
Challenging
external
audit
firms
to
do
a
lot
of
testing
on
those
areas.
E
They
do
remain
a
key
area
of
our
work,
so
it
I
mean
premina
and
I,
found
it
very
interesting
and
fascinating
area
because
it
it
it.
You
know
it
is,
and
it
does
involve
a
lot
of
other
areas
within
the
council
in
terms
of
Finance
Estates
specialist
valuers,
to
make
sure
we
get
to
a
position
where
those
values
are
accurate.
At
the
31st
of
March.
C
And,
and
would
the
the
evaluation
of
our
assets
affect
the
interest
rates
we
pay
on
borrowing.
E
It's
potentially
one
bit
more
for
for
officers
that,
because,
obviously
the
council
does
take
out
borrowing
to
principally
through
Public
Works
law
and
board,
and
typically
that's
at
a
fixed
rate
for
for
a
large
period
of
time.
E
But
you
know
we
we've
included
in
our
value
for
Money
Report
earlier
we
we
did
an
assessment
around
the
sort
of
council's
level
of
borrowing
against
its.
You
know
its
gross
assets
and
against
its
level
of
levels
of
income.
So
it
I'm
I'm,
not
sure
hand
on
heart
whether
it
does
affect
the
the
the
level
of
interest
rate
that
that's
charged
on
those
pedial
bees
to
leads
directly.
E
B
Yes,
I
can
confirm
that
it
doesn't
affect
our
the
interest
rates
that
we
pay,
but
we
are
very
mindful
on
the
level
of
borrowing
that
we
have
and
it's
around
being
able
to
service
that
debt
and
therefore
that's
why,
in
the
Capital
strategy,
we've
taken
the
decision
that
we
would
only
increase
borrowing
to
the
amount
that
we
repay
MRP,
which
is
the
minimum
Revenue
position,
unless
it's
for
things
that
our
investors
say
so
we're
investing
in
an
asset
to
deliver
a
saving
for
the
council
and-
and
those
are
the
only
circumstances
now
that
we
would
increase
our
level
of
borrowing
above
that
that
we're
really
paying
on
the
MRP.
N
Yes,
okay
can
I
ask
you
about
viability.
A
common
strategy
nowadays
for
planning
applicants
is
to
declare
after
the
decision
has
been
taken.
The
particular
part
of
the
scheme
is
non-viable
and
therefore
has
to
be
excused
contributions,
say
green
space
or
public
amenities
that
were
formally
part
of
the
planning
decision.
You
don't
know
that
for
possibly
five
years
down
the
line,
it
depends
what
is
actually
sold
his
houses
for
and
where
this
actually
made
the
profit
that
it
pencils
in.
N
But
it's
really
a
massive
in
the
public
interest
to
be
assured
that
people
aren't
fiddling
the
accounts
and
claiming
for
non-viability
when
the
scheme
is
perfectly
viable
and
very
profitable.
How
do
you
audit
that?
Because
it's
it's
years
later,
counselor.
A
If
I
don't
think
it's
for
them
to
ask
they're
auditing
our
accounts,
that's
far,
someone
else
to
audit
their
own
accounts,
I
think
that's
a
question
for
David
Feeney
offline
as
it
were,
but
that's
not
for
the
that's
not
for
our
Auditors,
because
we're
not
saying
that
foreign.
B
Thank
you
chair.
It's
just
going
back
to
the
evaluation
of
buildings,
a
reserves
based
on
the
reinstatement
value,
the
properties
rather
than
the
market
value,
because,
particularly
now
when
inflation's
soaring
cost
materials
is
increasing,
this
could
potentially
be
quite
a
big
gap.
Couldn't
there.
E
That's
a
really
good
question
councilman,
so
it's
a
different
elements
of
your
London
buildings
will
be
valued
on
a
different
basis.
So
a
lot
of
your
specialist
assets
where
there
isn't
an
open
market
value
so
like
your
schools,
for
example,
they're
valued
on
what's
known
as
depreciated
replacement,
cost
basis,
whereas
you
know
some
of
your
assets
that
that
may
be
deemed
Surplus
or
held
for
sale.
E
They
might
be
in
a
more
sort
of
fair
value,
market
value
approach
and
that's
the
type
of
discussions
that
we
get
into
with
with
finance
and
with
your
values,
to
make
sure
that
the
different
types
of
valuation
methodology
are
appropriate
for
the
particular
asset
in
question.
So
really
good
question,
and-
and
that
is
one
of
the
key
things
that
we
do
sort
of
check
and
challenge
Management
on
to
make
sure
that
that
valuation
approach
is
appropriate
for
that
for
any
particular
asset.
K
Thank
you
so
mine's.
My
question
is
going
straight
into
the
appendix
C,
where
you're
looking
at
progress
against
prior
year
recommendations,
there's
about
eight
eight
or
nine
recommendations
in
there.
Maybe
more
a
couple
of
them.
Look
like
they
relate
to
your
I.T
General
controls,
testing
and
my
question
is:
do
you
follow
those
up
sooner
than
because
it
says
what
it
says
is
we
will
consider
the
revised
Arrangements
in
place
once
we
commence
to
20?
K
Excuse
me,
21,
22,
final
accounts,
audit
I
know
that
you've
said
that
you
know
audit
resources
can
be
scared
or
are
tight
at
particular
times
of
year,
but
given
probably
the
importance
of
these
actions,
would
you
propose
to
follow
these
up
earlier.
E
So
I'll
bring
familiar
in
a
moment,
say
I.
Think
RIT,
colleagues
are
currently
planning
their
21-22
work
and
they
will
absolutely
be
following
up
their
their
started
today.
So,
as
per
minute
just
said
so
so,
RIT
colleagues
will
be
reviewing
the
2122
work
that
they
need
to
deliver
and
in
addition,
Linda
there
will
be
following
up
their
recommendations
from
from
the
prior
year,
absolutely
and
I.
E
Think
just
overall
in
terms
of
the
the
recommendations
that
appendix
C
clearly
there
will
be
a
a
full
disclosure
of
our
views
in
terms
of
whether
they've
been
implemented
or
otherwise
in
the
in
the
ice
260
report,
which
will
come
to
this
Committee
in
February.
K
K
J
In
terms
of
do
we
need
to
do
any
additional
work
or
focus
on
particular
areas
of
work,
and
that's
done
quite
early
on,
so
it
wouldn't
wait
until
we
actually
kick
off
the
rest
of
the
audit
work
and
if
appropriate,
then
we
would
feed
back
any
concerns,
first
of
all
to
management
just
to
see
if
they
can
take
action
to
make
things
happen
and
if
that's
not
forthcoming,
then
we
would
report
that
in
one
of
the
update
reports
as
a
sort
of
an
interim
measure,.
D
Thank
you,
chair
appendix
B.
With
regards
to
the
digital
audit
experience
I
mean.
Obviously
the
city
council
adopted
it
a
couple
of
years
before
you
know
you're
putting
it
into
practice
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
relying
on
on
this
system,
I
mean,
have
you
had
any
sort
of
feedback
from
people
who've
already
used
it,
and
would
it
be?
D
Would
it
be
useful
in
terms
of
the
actual
efficiency,
or
is
it
purely
because
of
just
on
technical
basis,
so
I'm,
just
I'm
just
trying
to
to
to
to
figure
the
pros
and
cons
of
I
mean
it's
good
to
have
these
new
programs
and
whatever
you,
but
in
terms
of
extra
reliability
and
and
whatever
you
and
efficiency,
would
it
impact.
E
Nice
good
good
question,
so
the
the
inflow
technology
is
something
that
that
Grant
Thornton
introduced
a
couple
of
years
ago
and
it's
in
place
at
the
vast
majority
of
our
public
sector
audit
clients,
both
local
authorities
and
and
NHS,
and
it
helps
a
number
of
areas
of
it.
E
One
is
in
terms
of
you
know,
a
clear
level
of
line
of
communication
in
terms
of
things
that
we've
requested
and
the
and
the
client
responds
to
and
there's
a
clear
date
stamp
of
to
when
things
have
been
asked
for
when
things
have
been
sent
back
and
also,
it
helps
a
lot
of
the
interrogation
of
information
from
General
ledgers
to
help
Drive
audit
samples
and
audit
testing
that
that
should
lead
to
you
know
a
more
efficient
audit
process.
E
One
of
the
challenges
at
Leeds
is
obviously
your
Ledger
system
is
an
in-house
one,
that's
quite
old
now,
so
some
of
the
aspects
of
the
inflow
technology
are
quite
difficult
to
integrate
into
that
into
that
ledger
system.
Obviously,
you
know
we
know
that
will
that
will
change
in
in
the
future,
but
in
overall
terms,
in
terms
of
our
audit
approach
nationally,
it
has
been
a
a
successful
tool
for
Auditors
and
indeed
for
for
clients
to
be
fair,
I,
don't
know
if
there's
anything
you
wanted
to
to
add
to
that
paminda.
J
I
think
the
the
additional
benefit
is
once
it's
working.
It
will
allow
time
to
be
saved
at
Authority,
so
for
offices.
The
amount
of
time
that
you
need
to
extract
information,
it
will
be
done
automatically,
so
the
great
benefit
elsewhere
is
saving
in
time.
At
the
moment,
obviously,
that
doesn't
apply
at
least
given
sort
of
the
FMS
system
is
is
quite
dated,
but
once
the
new
system
comes
in
we're
hopeful
that
that
will
benefit
provide
benefits
to
both
sides.
C
Just
just
some
clarity
really-
and
this
is
probably
me
not
you
so
you're
explaining
something
I
have
a
business
degree
you
know
and
finance
was
part
of
it,
but
it
wasn't
the
main
part
and
and
I
skipped
through
it.
So
a
lot
of
this
is
is
quite
interesting,
where
you've
got
the
appendix
c,
as
you
referred
to
and
there's
lots
of
tbcs
at
the
front
of
it
as
the
assessment.
But
the
actions
at
this
side
update
on
actions
is
what
the
council
are
going
to
do.
C
But
you
haven't
said
on
this
report
that
they've
done
it.
You've
said
that
you're
going
to
report
it
in
the
audit
findings
report.
C
Wouldn't
it
be
easier
for
for
mere
mortals
just
to
say
whether
it's
been
done
or
not,
and
that's
just
on
reporting
really
just
to
make
it
easier
for
for
us,
rather
than
have
to
find
whether
it's
being
done
or
not.
In
a
report.
J
Yeah,
so
what
we
try
and
do
here
is
to
set
out
the
recommendations
that
we
made
last
year
and
the
management
response
is
the
normal
audit
process
is
to
be
followed
up
the
following
cycle.
So
as
the
cycle
hasn't
yet
started,
we
can't
really
say
whether
you've
done
it
or
you
haven't
done
it
yet.
Hence,
hence
the
comments
there,
the
TBC
really
normally,
once
we
complete
the
work,
it
would
either
have
a
tick
on
it
or
a
cross.
So
when
it
comes
in
the
audit
findings
report,
you
will
have
that
completed
at
that
time.
C
Sorry
Joe,
it's
just
that.
Sometimes
you
forget
the
significant
lag
in
reporting,
so
when
it
says
21
22,
it
is
actually
not
21
22.
When
you
get
that
report,
it
is
actually
a
lot
later.
Isn't
it
sorry?
Thank
you
any.
A
Other
questions
or
comments
before
I
move
on
to
the
recommendation
Okay.
So
does
the
committee
agree
that
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
receive
the
annual
audit
plan
presented
by
Grant,
fart
and
and
to
know
and
agree
with
the
nature
and
scope
of
the
proposed
audit
work?
I'll
take
silence
as
a
yes
there
we
go
item
number
well,
it
says
59
minus,
but
it's
actually
number.
Fourteen
audit
risk
assessment
inquiries,
2021
2022.
F
Thank
you
chair,
so
this
report
presents
a
series
of
risk
related
inquiries
that
Grant
Thornton
have
asked
to
be
considered
by
the
committee
as
part
of
their
2122
audit
process.
This
is
the
second
year
that
they've
taken
this
approach
and
the
content
of
the
questions
is
very
similar
to
last
year
for
the
benefits
of
those
members
who
were
on
the
committee
last
year.
So
in
the
appendix
to
the
report,
The
Columns
that
have
yellow
headings.
F
Those
are
the
proposed
responses
by
officers
to
the
questions
that
have
been
posed
and
the
committee
are
asked
to
consider
those
proposed
responses
and
confirm
whether
or
not
they
are
in
accordance
with
the
committee's
understanding.
So
I
appreciate
it's
a
very
long
and
in
some
cases
technically
complicated
document.
It
was
circulated
to
members
of
the
committee
earlier
than
the
main
papers
to
allow
additional
time
to
consider
that
and
myself
and
the
other
officers
president
will
be
happy
to
try
and
answer
any
questions
relating
to
the
proposed
responses
and
I.
F
A
Okay,
no
questions
or
comments.
I'll
go
on
to
the
recommendation,
then.
Does
the
committee
agree
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
consider
the
response
to
proposed
by
officers
to
Grant
Parkin's
inquiries
and
to
confirm
whether
these
are
consistent
with
members
understanding
of
the
council's
arrangements
in
these
areas
again,
I'll
take
silences
acceptance.
A
Any
questions
from
members
well
that
went
a
bit
quicker
than
the
policy.
So
thank
you
for
attending
today's
committee
and
that's
the
end
of
the
meeting.
So
thank
you
very
much.
Everyone.