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C
Good
name
thanks
john
from
sam
morning,
everyone
and
welcome
to
this
first
remote
meeting
and
licensing
committee
last
met
last
march
in
the
civic
hall,
so
welcome
and
thank
you
all
for
for
attending
and
welcome
to
anyone
who
happens
to
be
viewing
on
youtube
or
live
or
a
bit
later
on,
not
live.
My
name
is
councillor
ben
garner
and
I'll
be
chairing
today's
meeting
and
I'd
like
to
start
the
meeting
today
that
confirming
by
confirming
that
this
meeting
and
licensing
committee
meets
the
requirements
of
the
council's
constitution.
C
Even
though
members
of
committee
are
in
remote
attendance,
as
you
can
tell,
and
while
items
today
will
be
fully
discussed
as
usual,
remote
attendance
requires
a
few
slight
changes
to
how
I
managed
to
debate
and
so
usual
stuff
that,
hopefully
all
members
and
officers
will
be
aware
of
just
meeting
microphones
unless
invited
to
speak.
C
Just
so,
there's
no
background
noise,
which
is
really
important
for
everyone
and
listening
keeping
cameras
on
during
the
meeting
where,
where
possible
and
all
participants
will
be
invited
to
introduce
themselves
at
the
start
of
the
meeting
in
a
couple
of
minutes
just
to
make
sure
to
any
observers.
C
Viewing
online
who's
involved
in
proceedings
so
as
for
more
patients
than
usual
while
we
go
through
this
process,
especially
in
the
first
full
committee,
another
slight
change
to
when
we
meet
in
the
civic
hall
in
order
to
avoid
any
disruption
to
the
meeting
should
anything
happen
to
my
internet
at
home.
Of
course,
that's
where
I
am
possibly
appoint
a
vice
chair
for
the
meeting
who
could
step
in
during
my
absence
just
to
move
the
meeting
along
and
get
through
the
agenda.
B
C
Thank
you
and
we'll
take
a
quick
vote
and
I'll
assume
much
like
the
lord
mayor
in
full
council
that
silence
his
approval.
If
that's
okay
for
members.
C
Excellent,
thank
you.
Everyone,
that's
really
useful.
Hopefully
it
won't
be
that's
needed
quite
okay
here
usually,
could
I
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves
and
meet
your
microphone
once
once.
You've
done
that
I'll
go
through
the
list
of
members.
First
council,
before.
E
Language
councillor,
neil
buckley,
old,
woodley,
ward,.
D
Ordering
quotes
killing
back
in
secret
ward.
C
And
I've
been
councillor
pat
latti,
and
it's
going
to
be
a
little
late
to
the
meeting.
Counselor
lennox.
G
Council
paul
ray
what's
wrong
with
the
sidewalk.
C
Thank
you
I'll
do
the
same
with
the
officers
as
well
and.
C
I
did
miss
you,
I'm
sorry,
sorry
that
wasn't
intentional!
Thank
you
is
there
anyone
else
missed
sorry
from
members.
That's
fine
officers
I'll
just
go
around
for
john.
First
of
all,.
C
Services,
I'm
moving
to
entertainment,
licensing
nicola.
C
C
And
andrea,
I
know
I'm
we've
got
a
couple
other
at
least
one
of
our
of
the
tax
and
private
higher
officers
is
valon
still
in
the
room.
I
watched
him
earlier.
H
I've
invited
three
managers,
two
of
whom
are
quite
new
in
post.
I
can't
see
valens
on
the
list
yet,
but
we've
got
oh.
I.
I
C
Hi,
andrew
you
mentioned
to
two
of
your
new
managers,
is
that
phil
and
richard
is
that
richard?
Are
you
able
to
introduce
yourselves
to
committee
and
welcome?
You
know
strange
circumstances,
I'm
sure
you'll
agree
and
you
know
when
when
we
do
get
back
into
rooms
and
whether
that's
hybrid
or
properly,
whenever
and
then
you
know,
it'd
be
very
nice
to
meet
your
buff
in
person
properly.
But
do
you
want
to
introduce
yourselves
please.
C
Welcome
and
that's
me
off
on
screen
at
the
very
least
and
then
we've
got
mary.
C
Brilliant
and
we've
got
rob,
I
think,
from
legal
services
as
well.
C
C
B
Under
ginger
item
one,
there
were
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
under
item
two.
There
are
now
items
which
require
the
exclusion
of
the
press
or
public
under
item
three,
I'm
unaware
of
any
late
items
of
business
under
agenda.
I
item
for.
Could
I
ask
members
to
declare
any
disclosable
pecuniary
interests.
B
C
Brilliant
thank
you
and
apologies
for
that
me
and
cat.
In
the
background.
Just
now
she
chooses
a
time
wisely.
I
am
going
on
to
minutes
for
the
last
meeting
so,
as
I
say
that
was
last
march,
so
good
job,
we
got
written
minutes
to
remind
us
of
of
what
actually
happened
there
so
gender
item.
Six.
Is
everyone
quite
happy
with
the
notes
from
the
third
march
meeting.
B
Up,
I
think
counselor
flynn
is
wanting
to
say
something:
hi
ben
yeah,
the
sound,
isn't
very
good.
I
didn't
quite
catch
what
you
said
at
the
start
of
that
little
bit
about
the
minutes.
C
I
just
said:
just:
isn't
it
everyone,
I'm
happy
that
they're
a
true
reflection
of
the
meeting,
although
it
was
last
march,
so
memories
might
not
be
that
that
great
about
the
last
meeting
and
are
there
any
matters
arising
from
those
minutes
from
last
match.
C
That's
fine
I'll
check
it
I'll
check
it.
Let's
know
that
I
so
on
to
the
first
item
of
business
since
last
march,
for
the
full
licensing
committee,
so
clean
invites
to
item
number
seven
review
the
gambling
act,
2005
a
call
for
evidence
and
you've
got
a
report
on
the
item.
F
Thank
you,
chair
members.
On
the
8th
december,
nigel
huddleston,
the
minister
for
sport,
tourism
heritage,
announced
an
intention
to
review
the
gambling
act
2005..
F
This
is
something
that
we've
been
waiting
for
for
quite
some
time,
he's
issued
a
call
for
evidence
with
the
closing
dates
of
the
31st
of
march,
and
it's
quite
a
wide-ranging
call
for
evidence,
including
protection
of
online
gamblers.
Advertising
effectiveness
of
the
gambling
commission
redress
arrangements
for
customers
that
feel
that
they've
been
unfairly
treated,
children's
access
to
categories
d,
slot
machines
and
changes
to
land-based
sector
and
the
outcomes
of
those.
F
What
we
would
normally
do
in
this
case
is
that
we
would
draft
a
response.
Officers
from
across
the
council
would
draft
a
response
and
we
would
pass
it
by
licensing
committee
before
submitting
it.
F
However,
because
there's
such
a
long
lead
time
on
this-
and
in
fact
the
closing
date
is
until
the
31st
of
march,
we
do
have
the
opportunity
for
licensing
committee
to
have
a
more
of
an
input
into
into
that
response,
and
so
we're
asking
if
you
would
like
to
consider
the
best
way
to
provide
us
fear
and
feedback
regarding
the
call
of
evidence
which
relates
to
the
review
of
the
gambling
act.
But
we've
got
a
number
of
ways
that
we
can
do
this.
We
could
form
a
working
group.
F
We've
done
that
in
the
past,
with
our
policy
around
sex
establishments.
F
C
Thanks
so
much
just
an
initial
question
from
me-
and
you
mentioned
a
16-week
consultation
period
when
when's
the
date
that
that
ends.
C
First,
any
questions
from
anyone
actually
counselor
flynn.
First
of
all,.
B
Thanks
ben
andrew
and
I
have
had
our
hands
up,
I
think,
since
the
last
item,
I
think
you
missed
us
on
the
matters
of
rising
from
the
minutes.
Do
you
mind
if
I
just
go
back
to
those
for
a
moment.
B
Okay,
it
was
really
just
where
are
we
in
terms
of
the
the
drivers
who
took
out
grants
and
loans
etc
to
convert
their
vehicles
to
the
clean
air
zone,
which,
of
course,
has
now
been
delayed?
What's
the
position
on
those
at
the
moment,
how
are
we
looking
after
them.
C
Thank
you
andrew,
and
you
have
your
hand
up
as
well.
Do
you
want
to
address
councillors
lindsay
yeah.
H
My
hand
was
sorry
my
hand
was
up
about
something
something
completely
different
in
terms
of
the
drivers
who
have
they're,
not
drivers,
they're
vehicle
owners,
vehicle
owners
who
have
applied
for
grants
and
loans.
The
clean
air
zone
team
are
communicating
with
everybody
who
was
either
applied
or
part
way
through
we're
working
with
the
clean
air
zone.
H
I
know
councillor
ghana,
we're
expecting
to
be
able
to
make
a
decision
on
the
ability
for
the
council
to
retain
some
of
the
clean
air
funding
which
will
enable
us
to
give
the
owners
of
those
exempt
clean
air
zone
exempt
vehicles
free
vehicle
licensing.
So
it's
a
cleaner
zone
team
issue.
The
clean
air
zone
team
is
being
sort
of
slowly
wound
down
during
2021
and
will
close
at
the
end
of
december
2021.
H
But
the
the
the
main
sort
of
response
for
those
for
those
owners
who
have
already
acquired
for
grant
grants
and
loans
is
that
they
will.
They
will
be
able
to
get
free
vehicle
licensing
for
the
period
of
the
the
funding
that
the
council's
managed
to
secure
for
the
clean
air
zone,
which
is
about
1.6
million
pounds,
which
will
probably
last
about
three
years
in
terms
of
vehicle
owners
who
have
not
yet
applied
and
may
do
in
the
future.
H
I
don't
I
don't
know
the
exact
position
there
and
certainly
we.
It
would
be
something
that
the
council
may
well
be
able
to
allocate
budget
and
allocate
funds
to
provide,
but
those
funds
would
sit
outside
taxi
licensing.
H
I'm
expecting
a
decision
report
from
from
neil
evans
early
next
week
and
then
what
we'll
do
is
we'll
share
that
as
soon
as
we
can
so
that
we
know
exactly
what
the
implications
of
that
decision
report,
our
council
blind.
H
Yeah,
sorry,
just
in
terms
of
my
hand,
being
up
I'll
need
to
work
out
how
to
put
my
hand
down
my
hand
down
was
a
was
a
point
on
the
the
minutes,
nothing
to
do
with.
What's
presenting
on
now
it's
to
do
with
the
I've
included
in
the
report,
a
forward
plan
of
consultation
and
getting
engagement,
which
will
pick
up
the
area
that
we
were
trying
to
start
in
february
and
march
last
year.
It's
very
very
difficult
to
have
meaningful
sort
of
public
meetings
on
on
zoom.
We've
really
struggled
this
year.
H
So
I
will
pick
up
that
point
from
the
minutes
last
time
and
I'll
make
sure
I
touch
on
that
when
we
talk
about
the
forward
plan
in
my
report.
Sorry
about
that
I'll
work
out
how
to
take
my
hand
down
and
sorry
for
interrupting.
C
H
C
Up
yeah,
no,
no!
That's!
Why
there's
a
problem
on
my
mind,
because
lots
of
hands
have
gone
up
now,
so
I
think
there's
a
delay
on
my
bit
as
well.
Counselor
garthway!
Oh,
I
know
you've
got
your
hand
upset
still
on
the
matters
horizon.
Sorry,
are
you
just
on
muta.
F
It's
about
the
gambling,
so
I'll
wait
while
mata's
arriving
gets
dealt
with.
C
That's
fine,
so
now
hans
are
back
in
my
view.
Are
there
any
other
matters
arising
and
apologies
for
missing
that
as
well.
C
F
Yes,
it's
a
it's
a
question
about
the
the
workings
of
the
gam
care
organization.
The
leads
community
gambling
service
that
was
set
up
in
I
think
september
2019,
and
really
how
that's
working,
whether
there's
been
a
lot
of
pressure
on
the
service,
calls
to
it
and
so
on
and
have
those
increased
during
lockdown.
F
Well,
I
I
attend
several
problem
gambling
meetings,
I
haven't
got
specific
data
for
you.
They
have
been
operating
all
through
the
lockdown,
but
I
believe
referrals
have
gone
down.
F
They
haven't
been
able
to
do
quite
so
much
face-to-face
stuff,
obviously
because
of
coronavirus-
and
I
think
that
is
having
an
impact
I'm
due
to
attend
another
programming
meeting
shortly
and
we
will
ask,
as
part
of
this
process
for
their
input
into
the
call
for
evidence,
so
we'll
get
some
further
data
for
you.
F
C
Thank
you
any
other
questions
for
so
on
the
review
or
any
any
views
on
how
how
we
want
as
members
to
get
a
response.
So
our
members
happy
to
to
have
that
sort
of
informal
and
and
have
a
response
to
them
via
email,
say
or
or
a
working
group
considering
we
may
have
tax
in
private
higher
working
groups
as
well,
especially
after
the
next
item.
It's
discussed
counseling
night
christine.
F
Thank
you
yeah.
I
do
have
some
input
actually
some
comments,
I'd
like
to
make
about
the
review
when
it
comes
to
be
looked
up,
but
if
we,
if
it's
decided
that
this
should
be
dealt
with
through
a
working
group,
will
we
have
the
opportunity
to
submit
our
thoughts
comments,
ideas
to
that
working
group,
because
I
don't
want
to
miss
my
opportunity
to
to
to
make
some
comment
about
the
gambling
act.
C
Yeah,
that's
why
and
and
by
all
means
you
you
could
be
a
member
of
the
of
the
working
group
itself.
Usually
three
three
members-
and
you
know
other
stakeholders
as
well,
but
mirroring
this
sort
of
tactic,
private,
higher,
regular
working
groups
we've
had
in
the
past,
so
by
all
means.
If
or
if
you
can't
be
a
member
of
the
working
group,
then
I'm
sure
you
know
all
views
from
all
members
or
anyone
else
involved
will
be
and
should
be
considered.
F
Thank
you,
okay!
Do
that
thanks,
yeah,
absolutely
I'll.
Make
sure
that
I
I
make
contact
with
your
counseling
night
anyway,
but
yes,
depending
on
how
members
want
to
do
it
and
when
we
could,
as
officers,
have
a
it's
an
awful
long
call
for
evidence.
There's
45
questions,
so
we
could
do
a
first
draft
of
a
response
with
the
financial
inclusion
team
in
public
health
and
then
pass
that
through
all
15
members
for
comment.
F
And
then,
if
you
wanted
to
then
get
involved
in
in
a
further
meeting,
then
of
course
you'd
be
welcome
to
join
us
and
and
join
in
that
way,
rather
than
do
a
formal
working
group,
if
you're
already
going
to
be
dealing
with
taxi
matters
that
way
it
might
be
easier
if
we
at
least
have
a
first
run
through
the
questions,
and
so
that
we
can
gather
our
formal
evidence.
And
then
you
can
have
a
look
at
that
and
make
comment
on
that
and
make
sure
that
your
views
are
reflected
in
our
response.
C
F
Yes,
I'd
be
in
favor
of
that
approach,
certainly-
and
I
should
have
asked
before,
but
on
question
six.
It
says
what
percentage
of
ggy
do
the
top
and
bottom
10
of
spenders
account
for
what
is
ggy
it's
gross
gaming
yield.
It's
it's
a
term
that
is
used
quite
frequently
in
gambling,
in
between
the
gambling,
commission
and
and
gambling
operators,
and
it's
basically
the
amount
of
money
that
goes
through
their
books.
Without
any
losses
taken
off,
you
know,
without
any
winnings
taken
off,
it's
gross
gaming
yield.
F
That
I'm
not
sure
about-
and
I'd
have
to
look
into
that.
Yes,
it's
it's
probably
in
there.
Okay!
Thank
you.
Yes,
I
think
it's
a
good
idea
to
have
if
you
could
do
a
draft
response
and
then
we
can
look
at
that
in
more
detail.
Thank
you.
C
Bro,
thank
you
any
other
members,
either
any
questions
we'll
see
or
any
comments
on
the
proposal
from
c
for
that
way
of
responding.
First
of
all
up
draft
response.
C
Okay
and
so
could
have
proposed,
then
that
would
take.
We
take
serious
proposals,
a
bit
of
a
mix.
Isn't
it
overdraft
response
by
by
seeing
the
team,
including
financial
inclusion,
team
and
public
alpha,
as
you
mentioned,
so
which
are
really
important
for
this
out,
how
to
members
via
email
and
and
see
who's
interested
and
who
will
respond
to
that
and
see
what
we
need
to
do
from
that
point
forward
and
we've
got
two
months
from
this
point.
So
it's
not
not
too
bad.
C
C
That's
fine,
thank
you,
and
so
so
we
look
forward
to
that.
Thank
you
very
much.
Is
there
anything
else
you
wanted
to
mention.
C
Thank
you,
christine
your
hands
just
popped
up.
There.
F
Yeah,
just
a
thought:
actually:
if,
if
we're
going
to
do
it,
that
way
just
seems
fine
actually
will
we
still
get
an
opportunity
to
discuss
between
ourselves,
or
will
it
just
be
by
email
directly
with
sue,
because
I
think
sometimes
doing
it
as
a
group
discussing
things
as
a
group
is
advantageous,
so
it'd
be
nice
to
have
the
opportunity
to
discuss
it
again
as
a
group?
Would
that
be
possible.
C
No,
that
could
be
in
the
march
meeting
yeah
as
soon
as
you
said,
and
we'll
have
a
you
know
before
before
it's
finalized
and
finally
sent
after
that.
One.
C
Great,
thank
you.
Everyone.
If
there's
nothing
else
on
that
item,
we'll
move
on
and
thank
you
sue
and
based
on
this
on
the
next
item
coming
everything's
coming
at
once
for
the
licensing
committee,
so
we've
had
nearly
a
year
away
from
full
licensing,
although
without
the
subcommittees
now
everything's
coming
back.
So
thank
you
on
to
the
next
item
then
item
eight
andrew.
This
is
the
long-awaited
department
of
transport
and
statutory
guidance
which
has
finally
been
finalized.
C
Now
we've
been
committee
after
committee
for
a
couple
of
years
now
waiting
for
this.
H
H
H
I'm
going
to
talk
you
through
the
key
highlights,
I'm
going
to
draw
specific
attention
to
the
areas
where
either
we
have
had.
We
have
had
historically
a
very
different
approach
to
the
which
the
dft
are
recommending
strongly
recommending
or
where
we
are
currently,
as
of
this
point,
not
in
compliance,
but
it's
going
to
take
rather
more
work
than
one
more
one,
more
push
or
a
a
minor
sort
of
technical
change.
So
there's
quite
a
lot
to
cover
in
the
report
today.
H
I
hope
everybody's
had
a
chance,
at
least
to
read
the
report
and
the
summary
I
appreciate
the
appendix
it's
over
30
pages
as
well,
and
may
go
into
some
detail.
I'm
really
intending
to
send
the
department
for
transport
any
amendments,
any
comments
from
today,
as
well
as
the
report
and
the
appendix
as
well.
H
So
the
purpose
of
the
report
is
to
show
members
the
the
council's
sort
of
self-assessment
against
the
strong
recommendation
for
the
trial
for
transport,
for
licensing
authorities
and
in
order
to
indicate
that
to
to
members
and
also
to
the
wider
audience
whether
guidance
has
already
been
satisfied
or
largely
satisfied
or
we're
at
odds
or
not
met.
I've
used
a
green,
amber
and
red
rating
for
each
of
the
respective
categories
and
out
of
about
30
categories.
H
We
are
read
on
three
and
I
would
expect
probably
a
lot
of
our
discussion
and
maybe
changes
in
our
future
sort
of
engagement,
consultation,
working
group
approach
to
focus
on
those
areas.
I'm
just
going
to
hopefully
summarize
the
background
to
why
we've
got
statutory
guidance
from
throughout
transport.
I
think
it's
very,
very
welcome
and
my
view,
particularly
without
having
worked
in
in
taxi
licensing.
The
last
time
guidance
was
issued
is
that
this
is
much
more
prescriptive.
H
It
sets
out
a
very,
very
clear
framework
that
my
view,
and
I
think
I
would
hope
members
of
you
as
well
would
set
us.
It
would
set
us
on
on
a
good
path
for
reviewing
and
updating
and
aligning
our
policies
going
going
forward.
So
the
guidance
document
that
I
provided
a
link
to
says
that
this
is
a
framework
of
policies
that
licensing
authority
must
have
when
exercising
their
function
so
must
have
regard
means.
H
We
have
to
really
check
ourselves
against
the
recommendations
for
the
department
for
transport,
and
I
think,
particularly
to
make
sure
we've
got
detailed
discussion
both
today
and
afterwards
in
terms
of
what
our
approach
would
be.
What
what
else
we
can
do,
but
also
particularly
in
terms
of
how
the
different
recommendations
or
different
proposals
or
different
different
changes
could
be
brought
in
together.
I've
specifically
brought
the
three
managers
that
managed
three
different
functions
within
taxi
licensing
to
the
meeting
today,
partly
because
two
or
two
are
imposed
valencia.
H
Could
you
you've
met
a
number
of
times
before
to
make
sure
that
they're
aware
of
the
seriousness
that
the
the
council
will
place
on
a
discussion
about
the
the
recommended
standards
and
particularly
where
leeds
is
either
up
to
now,
has
adopted
a
different
approach,
potentially
for
very
good
reasons.
But
those
reasons
need
to
be
revisited,
or
particularly
where
we
haven't
quite
managed
to
implement
something,
and
it's
going
to
take
more
work
to
do
that,
so,
specifically,
the
statutory
guidance.
H
This
is
turning
to
the
top
of
section
three,
the
start
of
the
main
issue:
saturday
guidance,
it's
statutory
guidance,
not
legislation.
We've
actually
had
a
licensing
committee,
many
discussions
where
the
council
has
lobbied
central
government
on
changes
to
legislation,
and
I
think,
particularly
in
terms
of
the
operator
cross-border
use
of
smartphone
apps.
H
This
guidance
does
not
address
those
those
areas
that
are
a
particular
ish
issue
in
west
yorkshire
and
particularly
in
any
of
the
major
sort
of
regions
where
there's
the
ability
to
roam
outside
someone's
licensed
area
in
in
an
authority
potentially
with
different
licensing
conditions.
H
It's
particularly
comprehensive
prescriptive
and
detailed
than
the
previous
2010
guide
to
good
practice,
indicating
the
absolute
centrality
of
public
safety,
and
particularly
the
the
implications
for
strong
licensing
for
the
safety
of
vulnerable
passengers
and
and
but
I
think,
in
terms
of
leads
approach
there.
We
I
would
recommend
that
we
welcome
and
embrace
the
conditions
and
match
ourselves
up
against
to
to
to
what
the
conditions
say
in
terms
of
the
areas
of
statutory
guidance.
There's
a
number
of
sections
and
I'm
gonna
summarize
what's
in
appendix
one.
H
So
the
first
section
is
administering
the
licensing
regime
and
I've
called
that
section
three,
because
it's
section
three
in
the
report
and
then
people
will
understand
section
four
gathering
and
sharing
information,
section
five
decision
making
and
I'm
sure
we
will
spend
more
time
talking
about
that
section.
H
Six
driver
licensing,
section,
seven
vehicle
licensing,
section,
eight
private
hire
vehicle
operator,
licensing,
section,
nine,
enforcing
the
licensing
regime
and
then
the
append
appendices
at
the
back
around
the
the
more
detailed
information-
and
I
think
one
of
the
the
areas
that
I
think
leads
leads
would
would
very
much
be
advised
to
do-
is
to
align
our
policies
along
with
those
several
several
sections
and
that's
what
we're
underway
doing.
H
I
think
a
number
of
the
recommendations
in
the
guidance
recommend
a
significant
change,
some
of
which
leads
us
part
way
through,
but
needs
more
work,
and
that's
particularly
where
we
talk
about
dbs
dbs
checks.
The
guidance
recommends
dbs
checks
for
employees
of
operators
who
are
not
licensed
holders.
It
doesn't
specify
that
the
the
authorities
should
conduct
those
dbs
checks.
It
just
says
you
need
to
be
confident
that
dbs
checks
are
made,
and
that
may
be
something
that
we
can
pick
up
in
the
review
of
operator
conditions,
but
it
would
require
consultation.
H
I
think,
in
summary,
the
the
two
areas
where
the
where
the
council
has
got
a
different
approach
other
than
the
dbs
for
operator
policies.
One
is
to
do
with
the
decision
making
framework,
where
the
guidance
is
very
clear
that
it
recommends
a
separation
between
officers
and
members
on
decisions.
I
think
the
the
guidance
suggests
that
officers
do
the
investigating
and
members
make
the
decisions.
H
Elite
city
councils
are
obviously
a
much
larger
authority
than
other
authorities
and
we're
able
to
achieve
a
separation
between
officers
and
managers
very
very
broadly,
and
that
the
third
area
is
around
the
the
powers
to
suspend
so
lead.
City
council
has
the
powers
of
immediate
suspension
and
then
with
it
with
the
view,
then
that
when
the
the
investigation
has
been
completed,
we
can
then
make
a
longer
term
licensing
decision
and
again
the
the
statutory
guidance
recommends
that
you
should.
H
In
those
cases
you
you
should
either
suspend
with
the
view
to
end
in
the
suspension
or
you
should
revoke,
and
so
we've
got
a
decision
to
make
as
to
how
we
would
either
review
our
immediate
suspensions
policy
and
and
deal
with
that.
So
that's
the
summary
of
those
areas
where
we're
we're
not
not
compliant
and
I'll
turn
I'll
turn
to
those
further
further
down
in
the
report.
H
Just
going
into
more
more
detail,
section
3.9,
which
is
on
page
23.,
there's
a
there's
a
lot
more
detail
in
there
around
the
specific
paragraphs
in
the
the
guidance
so
recommend.
Sorry.
C
C
C
So
anything
in
general
that
isn't
on
the
free
self,
what
I've
been
color
coded
as
red
areas
in
the
appendix
before
we
discuss
those
in
more
detail.
I
know
any
questions
on
the
statute
of
guidance
in
general
or
any
of
the
other
other
bits
of
the
guidance
for
andrew.
First
of
all,
I'm
really
really
really
keen
that
we
go
on
to
the
the
three
main
areas
in
detail,
but
I
don't
want
to
skip
over
anything
else.
Councillor
flynn
is
a
round
of
applause
rather
than
a
raised
hand,
but
I'll
take
I'll.
B
Which
is
a
bit
of
a
disaster
really
never
mind.
I
have
a
few
questions,
but
I'll
wait
till
the
end
ben
once
we
finished
it
because
it
covers
you
know
all
well
several
various
sort
of
aspects
of
the
of
the
appendix
and
the
previous
of
previous
notes.
Okay,.
C
That's
fine
any
any
of
our
members
with
more
general
stuff.
Before
we
go
on
to
the
free
meaty
bits
where
we,
where
we
deviate
a
little
bit.
C
Brilliant,
that's
it
andrew.
I
think
that's
cue
for
you
to
go
on
to
the
to
the
more
meet
a
bit.
H
I'm
just
checking
I'm
not
muted,
I'm
muted,
no,
I'm
not
right,
okay,
so
going
back
to
the
report,
so
this
is
paragraph
3.9
onwards,
so
I've
gone
into
a
bit
more
detail
in
the
report.
Again,
I
didn't
want
to
duplicate
large
elements
of
the
statutory
guidance.
H
I
think
you
could
particularly
turn
to
the
areas
where
leeds
has
historically
had
a
different
approach,
without
necessarily
reading
every
every
line
of
the
statutory
guidance,
but
I've
attached
the
specifics
in
some
detail
in
these
three
areas,
starting
with
the
regulatory
structure
which
obviously
incredibly
important
in
terms
of
licensing
decisions,
the
guidance
recommends
that
authorities
such
as
leeds
should
have
a
sub
board
basis
to
make
licensing
decisions.
It
doesn't
say
exactly
what
licensing
decisions
and
leads
particularly
makes
thousands
of
licensing
decisions
every
month.
H
H
Section
5.6
suggests
that
a
regulatory
committee
or
board
or
sub
board
has
convened
at
periodic
intervals
to
determine
licensing
matters
with
individual
cases
being
considered,
and
I
think
particularly
this
is
very
similar
to
that
frequently
adopted
in
other
lighting
matters
and
particularly
leads
to
to
entertainment,
licensing
and
the
sub
board
basis
that
we've
we've
talked
about.
It
does
suggest
that
less
contentious
matters
I.e
we
either
renew
or
we
issue
about
a
thousand
driver
and
vehicle
licenses
a
month.
H
I
think
this
is
not
recommending
that
we
that
we
discuss
every
application,
the
openness
that
we
that
we
provide
when
we
summarize,
on
a
monthly
basis,
our
decisions.
The
document
that
we
provide
is
sometimes
over
100
pages
long
in
terms
of
just
summarizing
the
licenses
that
we've
issued
and
renewed.
H
Turning
to
section
5.9
in
the
the
guidance,
the
the
recommendation
is
that,
unlike
officers,
elected
members
are
not
usually
involved
in
the
day-to-day
operation
of
the
service
and
therefore
don't
have
relationships
with
license
holders
that
may
give
the
illusion
of
or
impression
of
bias
there
and
it
provides
a
separation
between
decision
maker
and
license
holder.
H
Thirdly,
some
licensing
authorities
may
decide
to
operate
a
system
where,
by
all
matters
are
delegated
to
a
panel
of
officers.
However,
this
approach
is
not
recommended
and
caution
should
be
exercised.
Decisions
must
be
and
be
seen
to
be
made
objectively,
avoiding
any
bias.
H
Okay,
so
that's
this
selection
from
three
of
the
of
the
half
dozen
paragraphs
in
the
in
the
guidance
in
terms
of
what
what
I've
drafted
in
our
response
to
maybe
for
us
to
as
to
discuss
now
and
to
decide
what
we
might
do
going
forward,
particularly
if
we
get
representation
from
local
trade
or
or
even
a
discussion
with
all
the
neighboring
authorities
about
re
reviewing
our
approaches
in
parallel.
I
think.
H
Turning
to
each
of
those
areas,
the
council
has
currently
achieved
a
separation
between
investigation
and
decision
making
by
testing
tasking
officers
with
distinct
and
separate
roles.
So
officers-
and
these
are
usually
enforcement
officers
investigate
complaints.
They
follow
up
the
reported
incidents
and
they
produce
an
officer
report.
The
officer
report
is
not
a
decision,
but
may
have
also
previously
included
a
suspension
if
the
allegation
is
sufficiently
serious.
H
Now
I
think,
turning
to
the
the
suggestion
that
you'd
have
different
counselors
involved
in
different
decisions.
I
think
this
is
where
I'm
afraid,
I'm
going
to
bore
you
a
little
bit
just
with
this
scale
of
the
the
number
of
decisions
and
suggesting
that
if
you
were
to
to
convene
a
licensing
sub
board.
First
of
all,
you
probably
have
a
lot
of
sub
boards,
maybe
potentially
on
a
weekly
basis,
but
also
there
you'd
have
the
same
members
involved
in
lots
of
decisions.
H
So
if
we
look
at
around
the
suspensions
and
and
then
the
as
a
proportion
of
the
suspensions
we're
looking
at
around
400
driver
operator
or
vehicle
suspensions
a
year,
particularly
there.
So
if
we
were
to
look
at
how
many
sub
boards
might
be
needed
to
do
that,
I
think
we
would
be
looking
at
probably
at
least
a
sub
board
a
week
in
terms
of
what
we're
doing
and
I've
taken
sue's
figures
in
terms
of
the
licensing
support
for
entertainment,
licensing
around
2100
pounds
per
hearing.
H
But
it
would
involve
a
significant
change
in
the
role
of
a
a
member
of
member
of
licensing
committee.
I
I
think
it
would
still
involve
a
significant
significant
amount
of
operator
time
to
sorry
our
officer
time
to
prepare
to
prepare
for
those
support
discussions.
It
may
well
be
that
that
we
have
a
that.
We
have
a
discussion
after
this
or
you.
You,
as
members,
have
a
discussion
after
this
and
say
well.
H
Actually
there
are
some
areas
around
decision,
for
example
around
operators
or
around
ownership
of
operators,
and
things
like
that,
where
actually
we
would
feel
very
confident
to
to
be
involved
and
make
an
a
and
make
a
decision
but
yeah.
So
I
just
wanted
to
to
maybe
pause
the
discussion
there
and,
just
summarize
to
say,
we've
got.
H
We've
achieved
a
separation
from
investigator
and
decision
maker
we've
managed
to
have
enough,
invest
investigators
so
that
if
there
was
a
problem
with
or
a
complaint
around
that
individual
officer,
we
can
ask
for
another
officer
to
review
that.
We
very
regularly
have
offices
work
reviewed
by
either
their
line
manager
or
by
a
peer
before
before
it
comes
to
a
manager.
H
So
I
think
we've
we've
we've
we've
able
to
to
to
reassure
ourselves
that
we
we're
overcoming
that
that
side
of
things
clearly
there
will
be
more
work
for
leads
to
leads
to
do
if
we
were
to
to
discuss
this
as
a
as
a
working
group,
but
I
think
I
put
some
of
some
of
the
key
areas
of
information
in
front
of
you.
H
This
is
this
is
what
sort
of
describes
our
current
approach
and
would
go
back
to
the
department
for
transport,
and
I've
also
shared
this
with
the
neighboring
authorities
in
west
yorkshire
and
provided
we
agree
today.
I
will
also
share
if
I
can,
with
the
contacts
I've
got
in
the
core
cities,
who
are
very
likely
to
have
a
similar
scale
and
scope
of
operations
to
see
what
their
views
are.
H
If
I
stop
there
and
just
come
back
to
the
skype
discussion
and
just
see,
if
there's
any
any
questions
on
on
on
that,
one-
which
I
think
probably
is
the
most
serious
most
profound
of
all,
of
the
the
recommendations
for
us.
C
Thanks
andrew
and
at
this
point
we
have
had
representation
from.
C
Who
usually
sits
at
the
back
of
committee
meetings?
Hopefully
viewing
today
on
youtube
as
well?
There's
been
a
bit
of
a
bit
difficulty
with
this
representation,
because-
and
members
will
remember
that,
there's
there's
often
individual
cases
discussed
when
the
when
the
trader,
putting
forward
their
representations
for
community
which
isn't
ideal
and
we're.
You
know
against
legal
advice
as
well,
because
we
shouldn't
be
able
to
identify
individual
drivers
in
committee,
but
dude.
C
I
will
tell
you
who
has
signed
this,
as
I
say
mr
nabi,
the
secretary
of
euro
camps
and
the
joint
trade
committee,
streamline
at
least
private
hire,
driver
organization
and
gmb
for
the
taxi
trade
in
west
yorkshire.
So
as
trade
representative
they'd,
like
the
following
points
to
be
considered
around
this
part
of
the
guidance
so
having
members
of
a
regulatory
or
licensing
committee
such
as
a
sub
board
and
the
trade
would
like
us
to
go
for
a
sub
board
model.
C
C
Several
cases
have
been
reported
to
trade
representations
and
representatives
where
drivers
have
believed
they've
been
very
harshly
treated
and
would
would
have
liked
to
challenge
the
charges
or
allegations
through
the
legal
system
and
believe
they
would
have
been
exonerated,
and
I
do
have
a
question
andrew
on
that
part
elected
members
may
have
experience
of
dealing
with
constituents
who
are
taxing
private
hire
drivers
through
case
work.
E
C
Be
aware
of
cases
that
have
been
ongoing
for
many
months
according
to
this
submission
and
the
majority
of
drivers
have
dependence,
mortgages,
other
financial
commitments,
etc.
C
So
we'll
make
sure
that
shared
in
a
way
that
doesn't
identify
individual
cases
but
just
wanted
to
bring
that
to
members
attention
as
well
by
some
organizations
in
the
tax
and
private
higher
trade
in
elites.
C
So
I
hope
that's,
okay
and,
as
I
say,
and
had
it
not
identified
individual
drivers
and
cases
and
individual
allegations
that
could
have
been
shared
before
the
meeting
as
it
happened
that
came
in
itself
on
sunday
evening
as
well.
So
there
were
kind
of
time
constraints
in
that
as
well
counselor
downs.
I
think
you
had
your
hand
up
first
I'll,
go
to
you.
A
Yep
thanks
chair.
As
you
know,
I've
been
a
member
of
the
licensing
committee
for
a
long
time
and
it's
always
struck
me
that
we've
got
several
roles
and
one
of
them
obviously
is
within
the
taxi
and
private
hire
side
of
things.
When
you
look
at
the
liquor
licensing
and
that
we
have
subcommittees,
when
you
look
at
sexual
encounter
venues,
we
have
subcommittees.
A
We
as
members
get
to
go
into
it
in
quite
a
lot
of
detail
and
actually
have
decisions
to
make
on
individual
cases.
This
has
never
been
the
case
with
taxi
and
private
hire
and
seeing
this
dft
statutory
guidance
makes
me
think
it's
something
that
perhaps
we
have
been
lacking
on.
A
I
take
on
board
what
andrew
says
about
the
volume
of
work
that
it
would
entail
on
one
context,
we
shouldn't
be
scared
of
volume
of
work
if
it's
part
of
our
duty,
but
the
other
thing
I
would
say
is
that
perhaps
in
the
initial
phase,
two
questions,
one
is:
what
do
other
sort
of
peer
authorities
do
other
core
cities
with
this
sort
of
level
of
taxi
and
private
hire
you
business?
How
do
they
deal
with
this?
A
Are
we
out
of
step
and
if
we
are
out
of
step,
could
we
perhaps
look
at
moving
towards
this
guidance,
perhaps
by
setting
up
a
panel
or
panels
to
review
cases
that
are
contentious
rather
than
sort
of
just
going
through
all
cases
or
things
like
that?
Perhaps
we're
provided
with
an
overview,
but
when
it
gets
to
some
of
these
ones
that,
as
the
chair
has
alluded
to,
that,
have
been
flagged
up
by
the
trade
as
being
of
particular
concern.
A
Perhaps
that's
something
that
members
could
and
should
sit
on
to
give
that
sort
of
independent
thing.
A
I
fully
get
the
fact
that
andrew
said
that
he's
got
a
big
enough
department
that
can
cope
with
different
officers,
but
I
think
that
there's
an
issue
there
that
the
public
would
like
their
elected
representatives
to
have
some
involvement
within
their
cases
that
so
it's
taken
away
just
purely
from
officers
and
that's
perhaps
what
we're
elected
to
do
and
represent,
and
so
that
would
be
my
thoughts
and
what
I
would
like
to
see
that
we
try
thanks
chair.
C
Thank
you,
councillor
ray.
G
Thank
you
chair.
I
I
have
to
slightly
disagree
with
my
colleague
there
in
the
sense
that,
as
a
council
councillors
very
rarely
get
involved
in
very
specific
individual
enforcement
matters,
particularly
where
there's
potential
criminality
or
other
issues
that
are
highly
contentious.
G
And
I
I
am
very
dubious
about
extending
the
role
of
counsellors,
particularly
when
it
starts
impacting
people's
potential
incomes
and
the
political
pressures.
To
be
blunt,
that
will
put
on
elected
members
which
may
inform
their
decisions
in
a
way
that
actually
officers
will
do
in
a
very
clinical
way,
which
is
how
enforcement
to
a
certain
extent
should
be
done.
So
I
am
very
dubious
about
extending
our
role
into
decision
making
where,
let's
be
fair,
there
is
a
history
of
of
elected
members
getting
involved
in
decisions
in
other
authorities.
G
Careful,
I
do
think,
there's
probably
some
merit
in
maybe
the
contentious
cases,
but
by
their
very
nature,
they're
the
ones
that
actually
are
probably
more
open
to
political
pressure,
impacting
members
in
a
way
which
would
be
challenging,
and
I
think
we
need
to
be
very,
very
careful
about
getting
involved
in
safety
enforcement
matters
things,
and
I
think
there
is
a
genuine
point
about
the
scale
of
the
work.
We
are
a
significant
authority
with
thousands
and
thousands
of
decisions
being
made.
Where
do
you
draw
the
line
in
planning?
We
do
the
contentious
ones.
G
We
delegate
everything
else
to
officers
in
licensing,
we
delegate
everything
to
officers
by
the
contentious
ones.
So
I
think
we
do
need
to
be
very
careful
about
if
we
are
making
a
distinction
about
where
we
will
potentially
get
involved.
It
is
very
clear,
but
actually
the
very
ones
that
are
contentious
are
probably
the
ones
that
counselors
as
elected
representatives,
shouldn't.
C
E
Yeah,
thank
you
chair,
and
it's
interesting.
Isn't
it
because,
as
andrew
was
speaking
introducing
this
section,
I
just
jotted
down
a
couple
of
thoughts
and
others
have
commented
a
little
bit
on
them
and
it
just
struck
me
that
whatever
we
decide
to
do
particularly
if
we
decide
to
change
to
this
system,
it
should
improve
the
decision.
It
should
either
improve
the
decision-making
quality
or
it
should
be
quicker,
as
the
representative
has
suggested
it
would
be.
E
E
Perhaps
that
could
be
confirmed,
but
it
just
it
just
seemed
that
we
that
we
would
and
andrew
said
it
would
maybe
come
to
a
subcommittee
or
a
sub
board
every
week.
Is
that
just
one
sub
board
a
week
or
would
it
be
one
of
every
sub
board
every
week?
And
I
think,
as
councillor
ray
said
about
the
the
total
of
these
things,
we
need
to
be
careful
that
we're
not
swamped
by
a
contentious
decision-making
requests.
E
In
other
words,
I
think,
as
counselor
down
said,
if
it's
a
question
of
just
addressing
the
ones
which
are
obviously
contentious,
that's
one
thing.
We
certainly
don't
want,
in
my
opinion,
to
get
involved
in
everything
I
took
on
board
the
point
about
office
of
time
being
taken
up
by
preparation
of
every
single
board.
I
would
imagine
that
has
to
be
a
factor
and
also
just
referencing.
The
fact
that
we
are
where
we
are
is
2021
and
we're
in
this
situation,
with
all
the
regulations
that
we're
under.
E
If
we
did
decide
to
go
ahead
with
this,
which
I
imagine
the
decision
would
take
quite
some
time,
we
definitely
should
not
start
it.
In
my
view,
remotely
it
should
only
start
when
we
can
actually
have
them
in
person.
Thank
you,
chad,.
C
Thank
you
for
that.
I
just
got
a
couple
of
questions
myself,
andrew
and
unless
there's
anything
else
from
members
on
that
point,
if
you'd
like
to
go
through
them
one
by
one
a
bit
somewhere,
you
mentioned
about
the
separation
between
officers
and
managers
and
and
we
have
compared
to
other
authorities
a
lot
of
those.
How
many
officers
do
we
have
who
investigate
these
sorts
of
things
and
how
many
managers-
and
you
also
mentioned
about
peer
reviews
and
things
where
officers
aren't
sure
or
need
a
bit
reassurance
about
their
decision.
C
Do
the
managers
involved
with
scrutinizing
the
officers
decision,
making
or
officers
reports,
have
direct
line
management
responsibility
for
the
officers
they're
they're
reviewing,
because
I
think
that's
quite
important,
that
the
line
management
is
is
separated
as
well
as
officers
management
for
these
decisions.
C
H
Okay,
thank
you
very
much,
and
I
think
it
might
well
be
that
my
answers
generate
more
questions
as
well,
so
I'll,
try
and
answer
as
many
questions
as
as
possible.
First
of
all,
council
downs.
What
do
other
councils
do?
Local,
locally,
regionally
core
cities?
I've
made
contact
with
my
contacts.
I've
got
contacts
in
bristol
and
greater
manchester.
I've
made
contact
already
with
them
and
asked
them
what
they
do
haven't
yet
had
an
answer
in
terms
of
the
west
yorkshire
authorities.
H
H
So
that's
a
that's
a
factor
there,
so
we're
not
out
of
step
with
with
other
local
authorities
and
we've
we've
spoken
more
as
a
region
about
this
area
of
the
the
guidance
than
almost
all
the
others
put
together
around
that,
and
I
do
think
there
will
be
a
theme
coming
back
from
the
larger
authorities
saying
at
any
one
point:
we've
got
dozens
and
dozens
and
dozens
of
decisions
that
then
need
to
go
onto
the
framework.
I
just
well
well,
well,
you
were
asking
the
question.
H
I've
then
gone
into
the
to
the
to
the
reasons
for
that,
and
some
of
it
is
fairly
straightforward
and
there's
a
licensing
issue
to
do
with
a
group,
two
medical
and
I'm
afraid
the
remaining
issues
are
to
do
with
allegations
of
inappropriate
behavior
or
they've,
been
arrested,
one
way
or
another.
So
particularly,
that's
our
start
starting
point.
I
think,
in
terms
of
what's
what
what
might
be
contentious.
H
Terms
of
council
council
array
talking
about
sort
of
the
overlap
between
investigation
and
enforcement.
Absolutely,
I
think
the
starting
point
for
us
to
deal
with
the
majority
of
the
contentious
sensitive
cases
is
it's
one
of
ten
enforcement
officers
would
investigate
either
a
complaint
or
a
change
in
circumstances
or
or
a
report
of
an
arrest
or
report
of
changes
in
the
number
of
points
a
driver's
got,
or
even
maybe,
maybe
failure
to
declare
something
that
then
gets
reported.
H
So
we've
got
those
sort
of
different
routes
into
enforcement
and
there
is
definitely
a
starting
point
from
that:
investigation
that
sits
in
enforcement
or
it
sits
in
the
compliance
function
of
the
licensing
team.
In
terms
of
your
question,
count
counselor
I'll
come
back
to
counselor
buckley
in
a
minute.
Your
question
there
very,
very
usually
the
officers
making
the
decision
are
the
either
line
managers
or
they're
one
step
away.
So
they
manage
the
line
managers
of
those
officers.
So
they
are
they
they
sit
in
the
same
function.
H
They
wouldn't
necessarily
line
manage
them
day
to
day,
but
they'll
manage
those
people's
supervisors
and
those
people,
supervisors
conduct
those
quality,
cross
checks
and
say,
if
you,
if
you're
doing
an
investigation
or
you're
writing
an
officer
report.
Let's
have
a
look
at
that
before.
That
goes
to
a
manager,
and
that's
really
around
establishing
the
facts.
H
I
would
just
just
just
to
highlight-
and
maybe
this
comes
on
to
counselor
buckley's
point
in
terms
of
good
decision
to
be
better
and
faster
when
we
talk
about
a
licensing
decision
being
made
very
usually
there's
been
a
three-step
process,
there's
an
allegation,
there's
an
interview
of
the
victim
or
witness,
there's,
usually
an
interview
with
the
alleged
perpetrator
and
usually
before
a
a
very
serious
decision,
such
as
suggesting
to
refuse
or
or
revoke
a
license,
there's
what
we
would
call
a
reasons.
H
H
That
fits
very
much
in
line
with
the
sort
of
natural
justice
side
of
things
that
would
absolutely
need
to
be
part
of
the
decision-making
training
that
we
would
provide,
and
I
suspect
what
we
might
end
up
with
in
a
an
individual
meeting
or
a
supporter
subcommittee
is
we'd
collapse.
H
Some
of
that
information
where
there
might
be
a
change
in
the
facts
or
or
a
claim
that
someone's
been
misunderstood
and
and
what
we
can
do
in
an
investigation
is
to
say
fine,
let's
go,
let's
go
back
and
see
if
that,
if
that
changes,
so
I
I
wonder
if
we
might
think
we've
come
to
a
quick
decision
on
the
day
and
then
we'd
find
there's
some
new
information
and
we
said
all
right
that
changes
things.
What
should
we
do?
So
it's
very
much
that
overlap.
H
H
I
think
what
I
would
say
when,
when
mr
nabi
and
colleagues
say
that
they
feel
cases
are
very
unfair,
I
think
what
they
might
sometimes
mean
is
we
focused
rather
more
on
the
seriousness
of
the
allegation
than
we
have
on
the
mitigation
from
the
license
holder,
and
I
think
this
is
where
the
word
harsh
has
been
put
in
there
and
again
it's
it's
a
requirement
that,
in
making
decisions,
we
give
more
weight
on
the
risk
that's
posed
than
on
the
implications
to
the
license
holder
of
having
their
license
taken
away.
H
That's
the
purpose
of
licensing
we're
there
to
address
risk
first.
Clearly,
if
we've
got
three
or
four
hundred
decisions
around
suspensions
and
something
like
30
cases
where
we've
refused
or
revoked,
we
find
other
ways
of
dealing
with
the
risk
without
refusing
or
revoking
a
license
and
again,
I
wouldn't
think
that
would
necessarily
be
any
different
in
a
in
a
different
decision-making
form.
H
I
think
it's
possibly
the
expectation
or
the
hope
of
the
the
trade
that
members
of
a
taxi
licensing
sub
board
would
give
undue
weight
to
the
mitigation,
the
financial
impact
on
the
license
holder
and
maybe
not
enough
on
the
risk
to
the
risk
to
the
traveling
public,
and
I
think
we
would
need
to
to
factor
that
into
the
framework
for
the
subcommittees
and
sub
boards.
H
C
Thank
you,
andrew
there's.
I
know
mary
you've
had
your
hand
up
a
while
did
you
want
to
come
in
and
then
I've
got
show
some
balance
and
go
up
as
well
and
then
cancel
before.
B
Thank
you
chair.
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
something
that
the
process
which
andrew
has
done.
He
said
in
relation
to
bradford
that
they
have
a
member.
B
It's
not
impossible
to
the
magistrate's
court.
The
process
is
that
the
appeal
of
the
magistrates
call
lies
from
the
decision
of
the
council,
so
the
decision
of
the
council
will
be
made
in
that
situation
by
members.
So,
whether
or
not
you
have
another
appeal
process
from
offices,
there
would
still
be
a
piece
of
magistrates
caught
from
that
just
to.
C
An
additional
step
in
the
bradford
system-
that's
fine
balance.
Did
you
have
your
hand
up?
I
saw
a
round
of
applause
rather
than
an
answer.
I
Yes,
just
a
few
comments
and
to
add,
on
the
point
that
andrew
have
mentioned,
responding
to
different
questions
that
counselors
they
have
ever
asked
the
the
just
going
back
to
the
statutory
guidance.
They
just
said
to
remind
ourselves
that
this
statutory
guidance
is
written
as
a
guidance
to
where
over
200
licensing
authority
within
the
uk
and
because
of
the
different
sizes
of
those
authorities.
It's
not
it's
normal
to
find
that.
Maybe
some
authorities
may
be
doing
something
different
and
not
necessary
as
it
is
described
or
recommended
in
the
guidance.
I
Having
said
that
when
to
get
to
this
point
of
the
decision,
just
going
back
on
to
the
point
from
a
council
booklet
where
he
refers
to
the
quality
and
how
quick
you're
getting
this
decision-
and
I
think
the
quality
of
the
decision
within
lead
is
really
something
that
a
person
has
a
an
office
has
been
there
making
some
of
those
decisions
or
over
10
years
now,
and
also
if
we
presented
the
council
in
court
when
those
decisions
have
been
challenged
and
they
represented
council
successively.
I
One
of
the
things
one
of
the
strengths
that
we
have
in
here
is
the
separations
of
the
the
the
policies
being
entirely
the
responsibility
of
the
members
and
the
the
the
obviously
the
council
and
then
for
other
officers
having
the
the
the
the
powers
of
the
authority
to
make
the
decision
through
a
clear
the
scheme
of
delegation
which
clearly
states
what
decision
and
which
officer
can
make
such
a
decision.
I
And
as
andrew
mentioned
as
having
that
ladder
away,
we
can
have
a
a
different
decision
to
make.
We
can
have
a
different
approach,
particularly
again
separating
the
people
who
are
going
to
do
the
investigation
and
making
a
report
to
a
senior
officer
or
a
principal
officer
to
make
that
finance
decision,
and
if
we
don't
even
stop
there
for
a
the
decision
that,
as
you
described
or
some
of
members,
have
described
it
as
contentious.
I
We
now
go
through
a
management
case
review
which
is
attended
by
our
chief
of
sergeant
makai,
and
there
is
a
four
four
managers
to
go
through
such
a
cases
and
with
that
group
we
look
into
from
different
angles
and
then
the
decision
for
those
contentious
cases
are
taken
from
there.
I
think,
as
I
said,
that
has
been,
in
my
view,
the
strength
of
our
case
from
point
of
view.
Drivers
they
or
license
holder,
shall
I
say
they
still
have
the
right
of
appeal.
I
They
can
still
exercise
that
they
they
right
if
they
feel
aggrieved,
they
can
go
into
the
the
appeal
and-
and
I
think,
a
combination
of
those
there's,
a
separation
of
responsibilities
really
to
me
is
the
ultimate
strength
of
any
decision
that
is
made
in
the
leads.
That's
what
I
wanted
to
mention.
Thank
you,
chair.
C
Thanks
violence,
that's
really
useful
for
from
some
of
the
on
the
ground
work
that
you
guys
do
as
well.
Counselor
before.
D
I
personally
can't
really
see
how
having
counsellors
subcommittees
is
actually
going
to
improve
the
service
that
we're
giving
in
anyway,
and
so
I'm
really
comfortable
with
it
remaining
a
delegated
decision,
and
what
I
would
request
chair
is
that
we
potentially
look
at
doing
a
review
of
the
officer
process
in
order
to
look
at
the
speed
of
decisions
and
what
holds
up
those
decisions,
and
I
do
understand
that
things
are
complicated,
but
the
points
that
are
made
by
and
have
been
made
several
times
about
the
longevity
of
these
suspensions
is
something
that
I
do
think
warrants
further
investigation
by
us
as
a
committee.
C
Well,
and,
and
with
that
hannah,
would
you
would
that
be
the
hulk
and
other
members
as
well?
We
want
that
in
the
whole
committee,
as
part
of
the
working
group
discussing
the
statute
of
guidance,
and
especially
these
three
areas,
which
includes
decision
making,
could
be
happy
with
either
or
would
we
want
that
as
well
for
committee.
D
I,
if
I
can
come
back
from
that,
I
think,
potentially
a
potentially
even
a
separate
working
group,
specifically
focusing
on
reviewing
that
process.
I
don't
want
it
to
get
watered
down
within
this.
If
we're
going
to
make
that
change,
I
want
it
to
be
a
really
decent
change
that
works
for
our
trade,
for
our
offices
and
for
ourselves
moving
forward.
Thank
you.
C
Not
it
thank
you
and
people
can
agree
or
disagree,
but
sticking
their
hands
up
in
the
usual
fashion.
Rick.
A
Yeah
thanks
chair
just
coming
back
on
a
couple
of
points.
The
one
thing
I
would
say
to
councillor
ray
and
I
I
understand
the
point
he
makes,
but
we
do
have
to
make
some
difficult
decisions
on
pub
licenses
etc,
which
can
be
contentious
and
can
have
legal
implications
that
was
handed
back
to
us
from
or
handed
to
us
from
the
magistrates
court.
So
it
is
somewhere
where
we
do
sit
in
the
quasar
judicial
situation.
So
there
is,
there
is
a
precedence
for
this.
We
we
do
that.
A
I
take
on
board
what
other
people
have
said
and
I
take
on
board
what
valens
has
said
about
the
way
that
leeds
operates,
and
I
also
take
on
board
what
andrew
said
about
the
bristol
manchester
and
other
local
authorities
and
that's
what
I
was
really
seeking
to
see.
Are
we
out
of
steps
at
the
moment
we're
not
out
of
step?
A
Whilst
I
personally
would
like
to
have
some
involvement
in
this,
and
I
think
that
it
is
a
role
of
a
councillor
to
to
look
at
this,
I
accept
that
other
members
don't
share
those
views
or
enough
other
members
don't.
A
But
what
I
would
like
to
do,
if
I've
understood
the
council
of
bitter
correctly
is,
I
would
like
to
see
us
as
councillors,
review
the
process
and
perhaps
review
some
of
the
cases
to
see
how
those
decisions
were
arrived
at
to
make
sure
that
we
are
comfortable
that
the
process,
as
I'm
sure
it
is,
is
working
correctly
and
that
the
correct
decisions
are
being
made
and
then
being
made
in
an
appropriate
time
scale.
A
C
But
thank
you
any
other
members
before
go
back
to
andrew,
maybe
to
somewhere
else
on
those
points
then
move
on
to
the
to
the
next
bits
and
that's
over
two
major
points
of
the
statute.
Guidance.
Now
we're
our
own
policy.
C
Now
that's
fine
andrew.
H
Okay,
so
very
yeah,
very,
very
brief.
Summary
then
I
think
of
what
we've
got
so
far
is
either
either
next
month
or
in
march.
We
go
we're
also
going
to
provide
an
overview
of
2020
in
the
annual
licensing
statement,
and
that
provides
us
with
a
starting
point
of
a
framework
to
review
decisions
very,
very
happy
to
either
summarize
the
process
in
terms
of
officers.
H
H
We've
had
a
we've
had
a
couple
of
retirements
in
the
team
as
well,
so
we've
got
some
people
who
are
who
are
new
in
post
but
very
experienced
in
the
council
in
terms
of
making
decisions,
and
it's
a
good
opportunity
for
us
to
clarify
exactly
how
the
officer
decision
making
process
works
in
terms
of
those
officers
making
investigations
and
those
usually
managers
making
decisions.
H
H
Where
we
we
weighing
up
in
information
and
evidence
and
as
valence
has
said,
we
have
a
fortnightly
meeting
where
we
discuss
probably
two
or
three
very
contentious
cases
each
month
which
might
be
borderline
or
the
suggestion
is,
we
might
just
depart
from
the
council's
policy
for
very,
very
specific
reasons,
so
very
happy
to
pick
those
at
those
those
actions
up
in
terms
of
sort
of
minutes
from
today
and
a
suggestion
for
the
future
work
program.
If
that's
a
specific
area
from
a
working
group,
we
can.
H
We
can
pick
that
up
as
well.
Okay,
should
I
move
on
to
the
next
section.
So
it's
back
to
the
report.
The
next
section
is
starts.
3.3.13.
H
I've
marked
this
as
red
in
part,
because
we
it's
something
that's
not
not
not
in
place.
I
don't
think
it's
an
enormous
change
for
us
to
do
it,
but
in
part
I
want
to
make
sure
that
members
today
understand
the
scale
of
what
we
might
need
to
do
quite
quickly
to
turn
this
from
red
to
green.
So
this
section
says:
3.13
is
about
booking
and
dispatch
staff,
specifically
in
private
hire.
H
Operators
be
interesting
to
see
if
they
were
booking
dispatch
staff
working
in
taxi
associations
as
well,
which
is
one
of
the
recommendations
of
the
task
and
finish
group
from
a
couple
of
years
ago.
H
So
the
licensing
authority
should
be
satisfied
that
private
hire
vehicle
operators
can
demonstrate
that
all
staff
that
have
contact
with
the
public
or
oversee
the
dispatching
vehicles
do
not
pose
a
risk
to
the
public.
Licensing
authorities
should,
as
a
condition
of
granting
an
operator
license,
require
a
register
of
staff
that
will
take
bookings
or
dispatch
vehicles
as
kept
so
so
that
that
changes,
the
the
operator
condition
to
say
right,
give
us
the
list
of
your
staff,
first
of
all,
as
part
of
your
operator
license.
H
Secondly,
operators
should
be
required
to
evidence
that
they
have
had
sight
of
the
basic
dbs
check
on
all
individuals.
So
this
recommendation
is
that
the
operators
do
the
dbs
check
all
individuals
listed
on
their
registered
bookings
and
dispatch
staff
and
to
ensure
that
basic
dbs
checks
are
conducted
on
any
individuals
added
to
the
register,
and
this
is
compatible
with
their
policy.
Employing
ex-offenders
dbs
civics
provided
by
the
individual,
should
should
be
recently
issued
when
viewed.
H
Alternatively,
the
operator
could
use
a
responsible
organization
I.e.
It
could
be
the
council
to
request
the
check
on
their
behalf.
It's
interesting
that
that
isn't
recommending
that
operators
sign
up
to
the
dbs
service,
the
enhanced
dbs
service
them
themselves,
so
the
council
doesn't
currently
have
this
requirement
in
place.
We
require
operators
and
when
there's
a
change
of
operator,
we
require
the
person
who
wants
to
be
the
new
operator,
one
to
pass
an
operator
test
and,
secondly,
to
complete
a
dbs.
H
So
when
vehicle
proprietors
private
operating
both
hackney
carriage
and
private
high
drivers
are
required
to
have
a
dbs
operator
staff,
taking
phone
calls
and
bookings
are
currently
not
required
to
do
so.
It's
no
doubt
a
development
which
would
strengthen
the
council's
approach
operator.
Staff
do
often
have
access
to
information
about
vulnerable
people.
The.
H
To
give
you
an
anonymized
example,
we
have
taxi
licensing,
have
found
out
that
an
operator
wanted
to
employ
a
previously
revoked
driver
to
work
as
a
telephone
operator,
and
we
had
said
we
have
concerns
over
that
person
as
a
fit
and
proper
person,
and
we
do
not
want
you
to
employ
that
person
and
that
person
was
then
not
employed.
So
it's
very
very
much.
This
will
be
a
further
step
there.
I
think,
looking
forward.
This
provision
would
have
to
be
included
in
the
private
hierarch
operator
policy
review.
H
So
this
is
the
the
the
private
hire
operators
cross
border
smartphone
apps,
and
we
would
have
to
have
that
as
a
specific
element
of
that
which
would
require
a
degree
of
engagement
would
also
require
some
sort
of
consultation
as
well.
So
it's
a
significant
change
from
what
we're
doing
it's,
not
a
massive
change
in
terms
of
logistics,
but
it
may
well
be.
We
would
need
to
be
very,
very
clear
how
that
would
work
at
the
moment.
H
The
the
length
of
the
recommended
length
of
license
for
a
private
hire
operator
is
five
years,
so
we'd
need
to
be
very,
very
clear
there.
As
a
condition
of
granting
an
operator
license,
that
might
not
then
be
reviewed
for
five
years.
The
operator's
dbs
would
be
reviewed
every
six
months
in
line
with
our
dbs
policy,
but
that
would
put
put
a
focus
then
on
the
on
the
on
the
operator
to
up
to
to
carry
out
their
own
dbs
own
dbs's.
H
C
Thanks
andrew
any
questions
from
members,
please
put
your
hand
up
I'll
just
point
out
quite
supportive
of
this
part
of
the
statutory
guidance
you
know
working
in
gp,
surgeries,
pharmacies,
myself,
you
know
all
the
ancillary
staff
you
know
not
just
the
professionals
working
in
those
environments
have
dbs
checks
because
they
more
often
than
not
are
the
from
the
front
line
to
vulnerable
people.
You
know
they
take
their
details.
C
Obviously,
in
the
case
of
booking
staff
addresses
addresses
of
vulnerable
people
addresses
of
places
vulnerable
people
are
going
to
and
from
you
know
it
seems
a
no-brainer
to
me,
although
you
know,
as
you
say,
under
a
significant
change
for
operators
and
in
terms
of
our
work
plan,
we're
going
to
look
at
operator
conditions
anyway,
because
that's
been
a
bit
paid,
and
so
it
doesn't
add
you
know
yet
another
working
group
we're
going
to
do
that
operator,
condition
review
anyway,
abigail
yeah.
D
Thank
you
chair.
Can
you
hear
me
yeah,
following
on
what
the
chair
has
just
said?
I
really
welcome
that
development
andrew
and
I
think
it's
very
very
imperative
that
we
actually
put
that
into
the
checks
and
due
diligence
that
we
do
with
our
operators.
D
I
know
that
you
say
basic
checks
here,
but
I
I
think,
for
the
risk
that
people
who
have
got
convictions
are
exposed
to
the
public
and
to
children.
We.
We
should
also
remember
that
a
lot
of
parents
depend
on
taxes
to
pick
up
children
from
school,
so
the
whole
idea
about
the
dbs
is
protecting
children
protecting
and
vulnerable
adults
as
well.
We
have
a
lot
of
disabled
people
who
use
taxes
to
move
from
a
to
b.
So
having
a
dbs
check
for
me
is
imperative.
It's
it's
not
a
basic
check.
D
They
need
to
have
an
enhanced
check,
checks
against
volunteers
as
well
as
children,
which
the
basic
check
will
not
have
now
in
terms
of
allowing
the
operators
to
also
carry
out
theirs.
All
we
can
do
in
the
council.
The
council
already
has
dbs
processing
in
place,
so
we
could
bring
that
in-house
and
pass
on
the
cost
of
doing
the
checks
to
the
drivers.
So
there
are
lots
of
ways
of
going
about
it.
It's
now
online
as
well
within
two
days.
You
can
get
a
check
on
anybody
online.
D
Alternatively,
from
2014
the
dbs
changed
the
rules
on
having
checks
every
one
year
or
every
six
months.
So
whoever
is
check
now
you
register
for
an
update
service.
It's
a
one
of
eight
pounds
fee
and
every
single
year
or
every
single
month.
Whoever
an
employer
can
always
check
the
status
of
anyone,
so
at
least
when
it
comes
to
issuing
licensing
to
anyone.
You
already
have
good
information
about
that
particular
individual,
which
you
cannot
see
on
their
foreheads
or
see
on
their
driving
license.
D
So
I
will
actually
say
that
dbs
check
on
every
single
operator
should
be
mandatory,
but
obviously
that
is
my
suggestion
and
like
councillor,
ghana
said
you
know
they're,
frontline
and
they're
dealing
with
daily
with
people
daily
and
you
nobody's
with
them,
so
you
just
have
driver
and
a
vulnerable
adult
or
a
child
in
the
car
on
their
own.
So
I
believe
this
should
definitely
be
part
of
the
checks
that
we
do
for
our
drivers
and
operators.
Thank
you.
C
Thank
you,
councillor
ray.
G
Yeah,
I
think,
to
echo
some
of
those
points.
I
think
it
is
a
step
in
the
right
direction
and
particularly,
I
think
you
know
if
we
can
go
for
more
enhanced
checks
where
possible.
I'm
not
quite
sure.
I
agree
that
the
the
council
should
be
doing
it
as
to
be
fair
as
the
regulator
is
it
worth
for
this
and
I
think,
actually,
the
opera,
the
they
should
be
doing
themselves.
They
have
facilities
to
do
that.
G
I
H
H
The
starting
point
would
be
the
requirement
on
the
operator
to
carry
out
the
dba,
and
I
think
particularly
someone
doing
a
dbs
check.
It
doesn't
prevent
the
operator
from
hiring
the
person
with
the
with
potentially
a
list
of
arrests,
cautions
or
convictions.
It
gives
them
the
information
and
it's
their
decision.
H
So
that's,
I
think,
that's
the
starting
point
whether
the
council
would
mandate
something
over
and
above
that,
bearing
in
mind
that
these
individual,
if
I
call
them,
call
handlers,
but
it
could
be
anybody
who
works
for
an
opera,
it
could
be
someone
who's.
A
trainer
for
an
operator
think
about
the
size
of
our
largest
private
hire.
Operators.
They've
got
more
than
a
thousand
drivers,
so
they
have
they.
H
Don't
they
don't
hold
a
license,
so
we
don't
have
something
as
a
a
means
by
which
to
to
hold
them
to
the
count.
H
So
this
is
something
that's
that's
about
the
council
checking
when
the
operators
either
we're
doing
a
base
visit
or
we're
checking
their
policy
to
say,
let's
have
a
look
at
your
list
of
stuff
and
let's
have
a
look
to
see
your
dbs
book
or
something
I'm
sure
it
might
well
be
that
what
we
can
say
is
have
you
got
your
dbs
reference
number
and,
let's
see
if
we
can
check
directly,
so
I'm
sure
there's
a
way
for
us
to
as
us
to
be
able
to
do
that.
H
H
Bearing
your
mind,
I
don't
think
the
suggestion
is
that
we
would
then
be
licensing,
call
handlers
and
then
they'd
have
a
license
and
they'd
have
to
follow
our
dbs
we'd
say
that's
up
to
them
and
their
their
operator
and
we'd
offer
our
services
and
say
actually
you
can
get
dbs
through
through
lead
city
council,
but
you
may
choose
not
to
so
they're
the
sort
of
things.
I
think
we
would
pick
up
in
the
in
the
working
group.
C
B
C
That's
fine.
We
look
forward
to
that
andrew
onto
the
fed,
fed.
H
Okay.
Third-
this
is
the
third.
The
third
point
is
the
third
point:
where
there's
a
different
approach
in
the
council
to
that
recommendable
transport,
I
plan
to
do
a
fourth
section,
which
is
just
the
implications
for
our
policy
review
approach
going
forward
as
well,
and
that
might
be
the
appropriate
time
for
a
discussion
with
councillor
flynn.
But
if
I
turn
to
this
is
section
3.16,
page
24
of
your
papers.
For
today,
this
is
about
the
suspension
and
revocation
of
driver
licenses.
H
H
Before
any
decision
9.7
before
any
decision
is
made,
the
licensing
authority
must
give
full
consideration
to
the
available
evidence
and
if
the
driver
and
the
driver
should
be
given
the
opportunity
to
state
his
or
her
case,
if
a
period
of
suspension
is
imposed,
it
cannot
be
extended
or
changed
to
revocation
at
a
later
date
and
then
further
further
down
a
decision
to
revoke
a
license.
Does
not,
however,
prevent
the
re-issuing
of
a
license
should
further
information.
H
We
received
the
ulcers,
the
balance
of
probability.
That
decision
was
previously
made.
So
this
is
a
suggestion
that,
for
example,
I've
told
I've
just
told
you
that
we've
got
69.
Drivers
currently
suspended,
maybe
a
third
for
not
having
a
valid
group,
two
medical
and
maybe
a
half
for
allegations
of
inappropriate
behavior
that
will
be
in
line
with
our
immediate
suspect,
suspension
policy.
H
So
the
council
currently
has
a
has
a
a
a
procedure
and
a
policy
in
place
where
officers
supervisor
managers
can
make
decisions
to
suspend
a
license
on
immediate
public
safety
grounds
to
allow
us
or
the
police
to
conduct
an
investigation,
and
I
think,
in
part
it's
where
the
police
come
in.
That
leads
to
the
perception
of
a
delay
that
the
police
would
investigate.
While
someone
suspended
for
a
period
of
months,
sometimes
years
and
only
then
after
the
police
have
ended,
would
the
council
then
conduct
its
approach.
H
And
our
our
approach
particularly
covers
both
the
new
information,
so
this
is
the
you
should
only
make
a
decision
when
you've
got
the
information
and
it
covers
9.10.
The
minor
issue
could
be
addressed
through
additional
changes
so,
for
example,
go
and
get
a
new
eye
test,
get
some
new
classes,
and
your
group,
two
medical,
is
okay.
Suspension
ended.
H
That's
not
a
time-specific
suspension,
that's
about
bringing
someone
into
compliance
for
those
more
serious
allegations,
and
I
think,
if
I've
understood
the
the
the
recommendations
in
the
statutory
guidance,
what
the
department
of
transport
are
suggesting
is
of
those
cases
where
there's
a
serious
allegation
against
the
driver
of
sexually
inappropriate
behavior.
H
So
at
the
moment,
I
think
the
the
council's
sort
of
approach
is
to
put
that
additional
step.
In
of
saying
we
can
suspend
someone's
license.
H
I
guess
the
alternative
to
to
immediate
revocation
is
to
allow
someone
to
carry
on
working,
even
though
there
is
this
question
mark
over
there
behavior
in
their
and
their
their
behavior
towards
their
passengers.
H
So
at
the
moment
we
feel
that
we've
got
this
extra
step
on
this
immediate
suspension
grounds
that
allows
us
to
suspend
then
then
completely
complete
the
investigation
or
allow
an
investigation
to
be
completed.
If
it's,
the
police.
H
Rather
than
revoking
immediately,
I
I
do
think
there
might
be
some
cases
and
we've
spent.
We
spoke
at
some
time
today
talking
about
the
speed
of
decision
making.
It
may
well
be
that
one
of
the
things
we
can
do
as
part
of
that
officer
review
or
the
process
review
is
to
look
at
where
we
could
quicken
up
the
process
of
decision
making.
H
But
at
the
moment
we've
got
a
different
approach
and
again,
like
we
talked
about
the
the
decision
making,
we
have
got
a
different
approach
about
immediate
suspensions
asking
about
this
and
it
would
take
a
policy
review
to
either
remove
or
fine-tune
or
or
change
significantly
that
that
policy,
so
I'll
I'll
I'll,
stop
there
and
see
if
we've
got
any
further
questions.
C
C
C
Just
a
bit
on
and
off
andrew
that's
all
a
bit
bitty
and
so
balanced.
I
don't
know
if
you
john
available
to
jump
in
if
we
need
to,
but
are
there
any
questions
from
from
members
on
the
suspension
issue.
C
Vanessa,
I
suppose
it
was
hannah
and
rick
especially
commented
on
the
on
the
review
of
the
timeliness
of
decisions.
This
could
be
incorporated
into
that
as
well.
I
suspect
so
that
would
be
quite
nice
and
things
quite
nicely
with
the
comments
earlier
on.
Are
there
any
other
comments
from
members
before
we
go
to
billy
and
you're
free
and
lots
of
lots
of
questions
on
on
all
three
parts,
paul
ray.
G
Yeah,
I
I
suppose
it's
to
ask:
what
are
the
other
comparable
authorities
opinions
on
this
in
terms
of
of
how
this
will
impact
their
discipline?
Do
they
have
a
similar
model
to
us
where
they
have
the
extra
step
of
suspension
before
they
make
a
formal
decision
in
either
way
and
effectively
what
risk
will
this
pose
to
the
fundamental
function
of
licensing
in
terms
of
safeguarding
security
of
residents?
G
If
actually
the
government's
pushing
us
to
a
position
where
effectively,
they
want
us
to
susp
revoke
the
license
with
the
real
possibility
that,
because
there's
a
lack
of
detailed
evidence
yet
because
the
police
are
doing
whatever
they're
doing
or
whatever
that
with
them
by
the
sounds
of
him.
Please
correct
me:
if
I'm
wrong
in
a
position
where
we
may
be
effectively
forced
to
reissue
the
license,
it
does
seem
very
counter-intuitive
in
the
way
it's
been
explained,
and
I'm
just
hoping
I've
misheard
that
rather
than
then
that
be
the
case.
C
I
think
we
have
lost
andrew
so
balance,
oh
john,
if
you're
able
to
come
onto
it.
I
I
I
I
I
we
there
replied
to
to
that.
As
the
the
officer,
the
the
you
have,
the
the
authority
to
take
those
decisions
involving,
I
that's
the
suspension
of
the
revocation
and
the
the
the
refusing
to
renew
a
license,
and
I
think
in
in
in
the
act.
It
asks
us
to
make
sure
that
we
demonstrate
that
in
the
decision
that
we
take
is
fair
and
it's
proportionate.
I
Now
the
challenge
from
time
to
time
we
have
is
the
information
you
get
is
either
on
the
back
of
a
complaint
or
information
from
the
police
or
in
fact,
sometimes
it
said
the
license
holder,
who
approaches
and
report
an
incident
and
then
next
thing
we
really
need
to
look
into
is
on
back
of
that
information.
You
have
at
that
time.
What
is
the
decision
again
to
make
which,
again,
as
I
said,
you
needed
to
make
sure
that
that
is
a
fair
and
proportionate?
I
But
above
all,
you
need
a
total
time
to
think
about
public
safety,
and
this
is
why,
perhaps,
if
I
get
the
information
from
the
police,
I
would
see
it,
for
example,
as
a
reliable
information
and
therefore,
at
that
time
it
may
be
the
correct
approach
to
say
in
this
case
I'm
going
to
suspend
the
license
and
if
on
on
the
following
or
following
days,
then
we
have
a
further
investigation
information
or
in
fact,
if
the
investigation
is
completed
by
the
police,
then
you
can
review
that
suspension
and
then
make
a
further
decision
now.
I
The
the
other.
The
the
aspect
that
we
needed
to
consider
is,
for
example,
if
a
drive,
a
license
holder
has
completely
done
everything
to
avoid
making
other
way
of
any
incident
and
they
ended
up
going
into
court
and
if
they
are
convicted
cases
like
those
which
are
fully
determined
and
after
that
conviction
where
it's
clearly,
the
conviction
is
reporting
that
their
license
or
their
suitability
to
hold
a
license
in
conflict
with
the
council's
policies.
I
Therefore,
there
can
only
be
one
decision
which
will
be
to
revoke
that
license
if
it
was,
they
still
had
more
time
on
it
or
to
refuse
to
renew
if
that
conviction
was
found
out
at
the
time
of
applying
it
for
the
the
renewal
in
all
of
these
early
on,
it
was
mentioned
about
as
being
able
to
check
on
the
dbses
and
make
sure
that
actually,
there
is
no
further
information,
please
to
say
all
our
drivers
or
our
license
holders.
I
They
have
current
dbs
they're
registered
with
the
update
service.
So
at
any
given
time,
you
are
able
to
check
and
see
and
consider
the
incident
in
the
line
with
the
current
policy
and
make
sure
that
a
decision
is
taken.
As
I
said,
it
has
to
be
fair
and
happy
to
be
proportionate
sometime
of
those
suspension.
For
example,
if
you
go
to
our
system
today,
you
may
find
that
the
suspension
numbers
is
increased,
but
there
are
the
reasons.
I
I
We
are
no
longer
interested
in
continuing
to
pay
the
insurance,
so
they
downgraded
the
insurance,
make
it
it's
just
a
social
and
the
domestic,
in
which
case,
if
you
remove
the
high-end
reward,
therefore
you're
not
complying
with
the
condition
for
the
vehicle
to
be
licensed
as
a
taxi,
so
we
suspended
those
vehicles
so
but
on
a
day
that
such
a
proprietor
would
want
to
go
back
to
work,
they
would
just
give
us
the
insurance.
Therefore,
we
would
lift
the
suspension
all
I
want
to
say
today.
I
Members
is:
we
do
put
public
safety
at
heart
for
any
decision
that
we
make,
but
we
need
to
act
on
information
we
get
and
sometimes
it's
a
piecemeal
information.
Sometimes
we
have
the
solid
information,
for
example,
get
someone
else
sort
of
writing
tremendously.
I
I
But
in
case
of
the
sum
of
the
irrigation
some
of
the
information
you
may
find
that
it's
a
better
to
suspend
on
the
back
of
the
information
pending
the
review
pending
further
information
pending
further
my
interview
with
the
applicant.
So
you
can
make
a
a
decision,
but
there
have
been
some
criticism
I
mean.
Will
it
be
frank
whether
they've
been
saying?
I
G
Chair
can
I
come
in
sorry
because
that
wasn't
a
question
I
asked
yeah
the
question
I
asked
and
I
appreciate
the
explanation
of
our
current
process
is
with,
what's
being
said,
and
the
government
basically
saying
and
again
I
just
want
to
be
confident.
I've
not
misheard
that
actually,
if
we
suspend,
we
can't
go
to
a
revocation.
I
No,
I
don't
think
we'll
be
put
in
that
position.
It's
simply
because
in
later
we
have
the
policy
which
is
a
clear
around
the
immediate
suspension
so
which
we
can.
G
G
Will
that
put
this
into
a
position
where
people
that
we
would
have
suspended
while
we
wait
for
information
and
would
have
gone
to
revoking
their
license,
we
will
now
be
forced
to
revoke
their
license
because
of
the
seriousness
of
the
allegation
which
they
can
then
potentially
challenge,
and
we
may
therefore
have
to
re-license
yes
or
no
sorry
to
be
direct.
But
I
appreciate
all
the
background
information.
I
just
want
a
direct
answer.
C
H
No
I've
moved
to
a
completely
different
part
of
the
house
where
we
will
now
have
different
internet
problems.
I
think
I
think
in
terms
of
the
dilemma
we've
got
it
does
it.
It
does
arguably
suggest
that
we
would
some
of
those
cases
that
we
would
suspend.
H
We
would
currently
suspend
and
say
we're
going
to
investigate
in
some
detail.
If
we
were
to
say
it's
not
a
minor
issue,
so
there's
clearly
a
caveat
in
the
policy
that
says
if
it's
a
minor
issue
capable
being
remedied
like
training
or
I
would
put
group
two
medicals
in
there,
but
if
it's
a
serious
allegation
which
maybe
we
would
get
25
35
45
times
a
year,
there's
there
is
definitely
a
risk,
then
that
we
would
be
revoking
on
the
basis
of
the
report,
without
necessarily
having
all
the
information.
H
I
think
the
the
guidance
wants
to
to
just
to
square
this
I'll
go
back
to
the
to
the
section
9.7
before
any
decision
is
made.
The
licensing
authority
must
give
full
consideration
to
the
available
evidence
and
the
driver
should
be
given
the
opportunity
to
state
his
or
her
case
so
so
now.
For
us,
the
the
the
available
information
often
takes
some
time,
as
valencia
said
to
to
provide
if
we
make
it
on
the
basis
of
the
allegation.
It's
a
revocation.
H
There
is
definitely
the
route
then
for
someone
to
appeal,
because
we
don't
have
all
of
the
information,
and
there
is
definitely
then
I
would
say
an
appeal,
then
is
it's
not
a
council
process
or
appeal
to
magistrates,
court
and
that's
taken
on
the
on
the
base
of
the
guidance
that
magistrates
are
given,
so
there's
definitely
a
a
chance,
then
that
some
of
those
appeals
would
overturn
the
revocation.
I've
got
no
understanding
around
in.
H
In
terms
of
that,
I
would
say
in
my
time
in
taxi
taxi
licensing,
the
last
four
and
a
half
years.
We
have
had
two
appeals
overturned
in
those
in
those
four
and
a
half
years,
and
I
probably
know
the
names
of
the
individuals
and
and
very
very
soon
afterwards.
We
we
overturned
the
appeal
by
going
to
the
crown
court.
So,
yes,
there
is
absolutely
a
risk
there
that
a
revocation
can
be
appealed
and
on
the
basis
that
you've
been
you've
been
premature.
H
In
making
your
decision
you
shouldn't
have
revoked,
there
is
there's
a
risk
that
that
would
happen,
and
I
think,
that's
part
of
our
concern
in
our
representation
in
the
appendix
back
to
the
department
for
transport
that
we
feel
that
a
suspension
enables
us
to
carry
out
that
investigation.
Of
course,
it's
better
if
that,
if
that
investigation
is
faster
and
and
and
doesn't,
take,
doesn't
take
too
long,
but
in
the
nature
of
these
these
issues,
sometimes
they
do.
H
They
do
take
that
long,
and
I
think
we
would
defend
that
suspension.
I
think
also
for
the
for
the
driver
having
an
allegation.
H
A
revocation
goes
on
that
national,
the
national
register
of
refusals
and
revocations,
whereas
the
suspension
doesn't
so
a
suspension
that
is
then
overturned
because
it's
an
unreliable
witness
or
a
mistaken
identity,
or
something
as
straight
as
as
as
straightforward
as
that.
That
ends
that
position,
whereas
actually
that
person
is
on
the
is
he's
on
the
the
database
of
refused
and
revoked
drivers.
C
Sandra
and
violence
have
anything:
could
they
offer
the
possibility
of
a
reluctance
to
revoke
as
well?
If
there's
not
that
middle
ground
over
suspension,
you
know
and
and
thus
then
potentially
dangerous
drivers
danger
to
the
public
still
on
still
on
the
roads.
C
B
Thanks
ben
yeah,
I
I
dropped
out
a
couple
of
times
like
andrew,
so
apologies
if
they've
already
been
covered
fairly.
Quick
answers
would
suit
please.
B
At
the
same
time,
in
the
main
body
of
the
report,
paragraph
3.4,
on
page
22,
it
does
say
that
the
two
of
the
recommendations
or
two
of
the
issues
discussed
by
the
task
and
finish
group
I.e
the
start
and
finish
business
and
the
number
of
drivers
is
not
included
in
the
guidance
and
I'd
like
to
know
where
we
are
basically
from
a
leeds
point
of
view,
because
cross-bordering
is
probably
the
most
irritating
feature
or
frustrating
feature
for
most.
If
not
all
of
our
own,
this
is
lee's.
B
It
does
talk
about
consultation,
and
I
wonder
if
the
trade
has
been
consulted
about
the
council's
views
on
its
own
self-assessment
as
to
whether
or
not
the
trade
would
agree
with
how
we've
self-assessed
ourselves
autograph
3.8
3.10
on
page
32,
the
whistleblowing
policy.
I
wonder
if
we
could
see
it
please
not
today,
obviously,
but
in
due
course,
and
almost
finally
the
consistent
approach
from
from
local
authorities.
B
I
think
there
are
a
number
of
paragraphs
involved,
313
or
420
on
pages
32
and
37
not
strictly
to
do
with
this
particular
guidance.
But
I
just
wonder
where
we
are
in
terms
of
those
working
parties.
We
had
on
a
consistent
approach
to
to
the
way
in
which
we
we
look
at
sort
of
private
high
private
hire
drivers
across
the
across
west,
yorkshire,
anyway,
and
last
but
not
least,
abigail's
already
mentioned
it.
C
Thanks
for
watching
to
last
point
billy
on
the-
and
I
know
andrew
you'll
have
a
bit
more
to
add
and
the
the
west,
yorkshire
and
york
authorities
and
getting
together
so
I've
been
keen
to
to
get
the
chairs
of
the
west,
yorkshire
and
yours,
or
licensing
authorities
together
and
sent
out
an
email
just
prior
to
the
last
lockdown
so
end
of
october,
and
then
of
course
it
came
became
quite
apparent.
There
was
another
lockdown,
although
there
seems
to
be
broad
agreement
apart
from
a
couple
of
chairs
who
didn't
respond.
Yes,
meeting
them.
C
Of
course,
virtually
now
would
be
really
useful
and
I'm
keen
to
get
that
going
now.
It's
clear
that
we're
we're
in
a
bit
of
a,
although
we're
in
the
third
lockdown,
now
very
stable.
I
suppose
for
now
touch
wood
and
there
seems
to
be
a
way
out
with
the
vaccinations
going
on
as
well
and
so
chairs
will
be
a
much
more
amenable
to
to
meet
and
work
going
on.
C
H
B
Well,
I
think
saturday
gardens
because
it's
not
just
playable
guidance,
I
mean
if
you,
if
you
have
guidance
and
you
would
be
made
as
guidance
as
what
to
do
if
it's
labeled
statutory
guidance.
I
think
if
there
was
a
court
gate
case,
more
weight
would
be
attached
to
it
than
otherwise.
H
Okay,
yes,
I
mean
my
understanding
would
be
if
we
made
a
decision
or
we
changed
a
policy
and
someone
felt
it
didn't,
draw
attention
or
sufficient
attention
to
the
statutory
guidance
we
would
be
we
we
could
probably
expect
to
be
challenged
on
it,
and
similarly,
I
would
expect
any
legal
representation
to
to
make
to
make
reference
to
this
in.
I
don't
know
opposing
the
counselling
decision
or
something
something
I'll
put.
Similarly,
I
would
expect
us
we're
being
represented
to
make
reference
to
it
as
well.
H
Someone
said
why
are
you
doing
this
and
we
say
well:
actually
it's
in
statutory
kind,
you've
seen
this
national
best
practice,
okay,
in
turn,
start
and
finish,
and
capping
number
of
drivers.
We
certainly
had
tentatively
suggested
that
start
and
finish
could
be
an
option
on
the
use
of
smartphone
apps
in
the
operator
policy
review
the
reality
over
all
of
that
cross-border
work.
H
H
I
think
in
terms
in
terms
of
that,
the
law
specifically
says
authorities
cannot
cap
the
number
of
private
hire
drivers,
so
uk
law
says
you
cannot
cap
the
number
of
drivers
for
private
for
private
hire,
so
we
would
need
to
be
very
clear,
it's
not
in
the
statutory
guidance,
and
I
think
it
would
be
sort
of
thing
that
if
we
were
to
introduce
it
or
consult
on
it,
someone
would
say
well,
hang
on
a
minute,
it's
not
in
the
statutory
guidance.
Why
are
you
doing
this?
H
We
need
to
be
very
clear
that
that
would
be
the
position,
the
position
of
the
council
or
the
position,
particularly
of
the
neighboring
authorities,
and
at
the
moment
we've
still
got
other
areas
of
work
that
we
are
looking
at
with
the
other
with
with
the
other
authorities
in
terms
of
the
appendices,
the
consultation
with
the
trade.
No,
we
didn't
consult
with
the
trade
and
I'd
be
very
clear.
Consultation
is
not
just
with
the
trade
consultation.
H
We
would
do
consultation
with
a
whole
series
of
stakeholders
that
are
indicated
in
that
on
that
page.
In
the
consultation,
consultation
is
not
just
with
the
trade
and
we
would
have
very
very
often
get
different
views
from
stakeholders
compared
to
the
trade.
My
suggestion
would
be.
We
would
share
our
findings
with
the
department
for
transport
with
people
who
are
interested
parties,
but
I
I
don't
necessarily
think
that
the
trade
or
stakeholders
view
necessarily
would
have
a
bearing
on
what
the
council
self-assessment
would
be
against
specific
aspects
of
licensing
policy.
H
So
our
proposal
would
be
to
to
to
share
the
report
share
any
any
revisions
afterwards,
whistleblowing
policy
I'll
get
a
link
to
it.
H
We'll
include
it
in
the
in
the
feedback
from
today,
john
grieve
I'll
I'll,
get
the
link
and
make
make
sure
that
you've
you've
seen
that
we
have
shared
the
link
with
our
staff,
so
I'll
make
sure
that
we've
maybe
repeated
that
as
well
with
our
staff
on
the
back
of
back
of
today
as
well
in
terms
of
the
work,
the
working
group,
west,
yorkshire
and
york,
the
focus
for
west
yorkshire
and
york
at
the
moment
is
keeping
safe
licensing
during
covid
and
lockdown.
H
I
don't
know
if
fallons
or
richard
or
phil
have
said
that
their
focus
at
the
moment
is
working
during
lockdown
on
just
providing
safe
licensing.
So
we
have
got
a
we've,
only
really
met
virtually
in
terms
of
the
west,
yorkshire
and
york
authorities,
and
we've
spent
most
of
our
time
talking
about
covid
and
passenger
and
passenger
safety
and
driver
communication
in
terms
of
the
the
the
booking
and
dispatch
staff.
We
need
to
be
very
clear.
I
don't
think
we
can
implement
a
new
policy
without
going
through
the
necessary
consultation.
H
So
I
don't
think
that
we
can
retrospectively
change
the
policy
just
because
it's
in
the
statutory
guidance.
I
think
we
need
to
be
very
clear
that
we've
done
that
engagement
in
consultation
with
those
groups
to
make
sure
that
it's
very,
very
clear
exactly
how
that
would
work
and
again
the
starting
point,
I
think,
would
be
the
operator
conditions
to
say
as
part
of
your
operator
policy.
There
will
be
a
new
section
saying
your
booking
and
dispatch
staff
will
be
dbs
checked
by
you.
H
C
Anything
else,
casper
flynn.
B
From
just
coming
back
on
me,
thanks
ben
just
coming
back
on
to
the
cross-boarding
issue,
the
starting
condition.
Capping
draft
is
well
aware
that
this
is
it's
the
law.
We
can't
do
anything
better
on
our
own,
but
I
think
there's
a
an
understatement.
To
say
this
is
a
very
strong
feeling
in
the
city,
and
I
would
imagine
several
other
big
cities
as
well,
where
they
have
people
coming
across
from
other
areas
and
potentially
acting
unlawfully.
H
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
think
I
mean
department
transport
will
get
this
report,
it's
on
page
26,
the
policy
review
section
3.20,
so
we've
got
the
the
five
areas
currently
of
the
policy
policy
review,
including
the
operator
conditions.
Smartphone
apps
cross-border
would
then
include
the
call
booking
handling
dbs
and
certainly
we
would
discuss.
H
I
can't
imagine
we're
discussing
any
policy
reviews
without
involving
west
yorkshire,
new
york.
It
might
be
that
there's
a
slight
different
focus
between
some
of
the
western
york
authorities
than
others,
and
I
think
particularly
if
we
focus
on
leads,
leads
updating
its
policies
or
changing
something
without
necessarily
bringing
the
other
authorities
with
us.
I
do
I.
I
do
not
think
it
would
have
anything
like
the
impact
without
us
bringing
the
other
authorities
with
us,
and
I
think
that's
that
that's
the
challenge
for
it
for
us
around.
You
know
around
those
areas.
H
We
have
got
five
quite
significant
areas
of
policy
development
proposing
to
do
one
policy
development
at
a
time
and
for
me,
particularly
if
we
wanted
to
look
at
officer
decisions
in
that,
that
would
probably
would
come
above
maybe
above
the
vehicle
condition.
So
we
could
look
at
the
the
the
suitability,
cctv
operator
conditions
and
then
bringing
officer
decisions
into
in
in
into
that
workload.
That's
a
significant
forward
plan
and
I
think,
each
of
which
would
involve
that
sort
of
development
and
and
consultation.
It's
a
significant
piece
of
work.
C
Thanks
andrew
counselor
knight.
F
F
So
that
would
be
my
argument
on
on
that
one,
the
the
other
point
and
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
have
been
said
that
I
agree
with
I'm
not
going
to
go
over
those,
but
just
something
else.
That's
on
a
slightly
different
matter,
but
in
relation
to
the
guidance,
whilst
we're
feeding
back
on
this
consultation,
can
we
also
point
out
to
them
their
outdated
use
of
language,
page
61,
that
you've
quoted
something
from
the
guidance
there
on
page
61
and
it's
referring
to
he,
and
I
know
they
do
this
a
lot
in
legislation.
F
H
H
We
have
absolutely.
There
is
some
case
law
that
says.
If,
if
you
suspend
and
then
you
you
assemble
all
the
information,
then
you
revoke
you're
having
more
than
one
bite
at
the
cherry.
I
think
our
argument
is,
we
don't
know
it's
a
cherry
when
we're
suspending.
We
know
it's
a
something,
and
I
think
particularly
that's
where
that's
part
of
our
response
is
to
say
that
we've
developed
an
approach.
We
think
it's
proportionate.
H
I
would
expect
that
this
gets
drawn.
I
think
this
is
where
particularly
the
trade
representation
is
saying
it.
It
takes
too
long
to
bring
it
to
bring
a
suspension
case
to
to
bear
to
you
know
to
come
to
to
complete
the
investigation
if
there
is
any
way
in
which
we
can
very
very
clearly
as
part
of
that
process
review
or
that
officer
review,
explain
exactly
the
circumstances
where
we
could
take
one
approach,
exactly
the
circumstance
when
we
could
take
notes.
H
I
think
members
would
feel
reassured
that
they
understood
better,
that
sort
of
black
box
of
how
how
decisions
get
made
it
may
well
be
that
we
can
refine
that
and
explain
that,
so
that
that's
that's
very,
very
clear,
but
we
are
absolutely,
I
think,
exactly
as
balance
has
said,
we're
absolutely
making
decisions
focused
on
public
safety,
on
the
weight
of
the
evidence
that
we've
got
in
front
of
you,
and
I
think
particularly
the
fact
that
we
do
all
of
this
investigation
at
the
end
of
the
year.
H
Maybe
25
or
30
people
have
had
their
license
revoked
or
refused
at
renewal
indicates
that
that
I
think
we
do
a
very
thorough
job
on
a
whole
range
of
investigations,
and
then
it's
only
in
those
most
serious
cases
that
we
use
that
absolute
decision,
the
thought
of
having
to
bring
that
decision
forward.
When
we
don't
have
that
information
really
concerns
me-
and
I
probably
wouldn't
want
to
say
very
much
more
than
that.
Really
it
really
concerns
me.
There
may
be
a
way
for
us
to
do
that
soon.
H
Obviously,
valencia
said
if,
if
the
guy
reporting
to
us
is
is
in
is
in
army
omni
prison,
it
might
well
be
that
our
investigation
is
shorter
than
if
there's
there's
lots
and
lots
of
you
know
different
forms
of
evidence.
F
Yeah,
I
I
agree
with
that.
It
concerns
me
too
andrew
the
way
that
it,
it
seems,
like
you've,
been
forced
to
revoke
rather
than
suspend
you
know
like
otherwise,
suspension
is
not
there
just
as
a
temporary
measure.
Whilst
you
investigate,
if
you've
not
then
got
the
option
to
revoke
later.
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
andrea
and
chris.
I
think
we're
all
agreed
on
that.
I
seem
to
be,
and
a
really
good
part
about
the
the
language
being
used
in
the
gender
engendering
language
when
that
shows.
Actually
this
is
you
know,
taxi
and
private
law
is
decades
old,
and
this
is
still
decades
old,
because
this
is
statutory
going.
It's
going
back
to
what
billy
said.
It
doesn't
change
a
lot.
It's
it's
skirting
around.
It's
cutting
around
the
issue
with
this
statue
statute
of
guidance.
So
I
think
that's
a
really
important
point.
C
C
Much
longer
you
know,
time
and
time
getting
the
same
stuff
coming
up
and
it
looks
like
it
will
be
for
a
long
time,
although
this
is
changing
quite
a
bit.
If
we're
happy
to
go
on
to
the
final
bit
on
the
policy
review
and
andrew
you
mentioned
it
along
the
way
anyway.
I'm
keen
to
add,
if
members
are
agreeable
with
that
review
of
officer
decisions,
and
actually
that's
the
that
part
of
the
response
could
be
we.
You
know
before
we
make
a
final
final
decision
on
this.
C
Let's
review
what
officers
are
doing,
but
you
know
with
members
members
reviewing
what
officers
are
reviewing
and
seeing
if
that's
up
to
scratch,
which
I'm
sure
it
is
I've.
You
know
for
all
the
reasons
mentioned
before,
but
I'm
very
keen
to
add
that,
as
part
of
the
response
and
as
part
of
our
work
going.
H
H
H
I'm
sorry
that
skype
someone's
trying
to
ring
me,
but
yes,
I'll,
insert
in
in
the
bullet
points
in
3.20
review
of
officer
officer
decisions,
overview
of
officer
decisions
in
part
to
to
clarify
for
for
the
managers
who
are
new
in
post
and
in
part
to
clarify
for
members
and
just
just
see,
if
there's
a
there's
the
opportunity
for
us
to
review,
enhance
change,
change.
Those
change,
you
know
change
those
processes.
C
Bro,
thank
you.
I
don't
know
if
you
want
to
get
a
glass
of
water
and
if
you've
got
one
in
front
of
you,
is
there
anything
else,
any
other
comments
from
members
there,
and
especially
on
the
group
of
policy
review.
So
we
do
have
the
the
working
group
which
has
been
on
hold
for
a
little
bit
of
the
suitability
issue
that
that
is
fully
a
year
old.
C
I
think
it
was
a
year
today
that
we're
in
the
chamber
we've
lost
lots
of
drivers
and
members
of
the
trade,
which
was
which
was
great,
in
my
view,
jittery
and
nerve-wracking
look
great.
At
the
same
time,
cctv
we've
done
the
the
work
of
the
committee,
it's
just
the
and
the
the
working
group
there.
It's
just
we've
got
the
consultation
we're
put
in
about
the
review
of
officer
decisions
linked
to
this
statutory
guidance
point,
and
then
the
operator
conditions
and
down
to
vehicle
and
driver
as
well.
C
Are
there
any
comments
on
those
from
members?
Maybe
on
the
ordering,
the
the
relevance
anything
like
that
neil.
E
Yeah
thanks
chair
just
briefly
on
vehicle
conditions
and
andrew
will
probably
remember
that,
just
very
recently
one
of
my
colleagues
had
a
complaint
from
an
elderly
person
who
said
that
the
private
hire
car
sent
to
collect
her
was
too
dirty
to
get
into.
E
And
when
you
look
at
the
appendix
page,
58
under
record
keeping,
it
explicitly
says
there
that
licensing
authority
should,
as
a
minimum,
require
private
hire
vehicle
operators
to
record,
and
it
goes
on
to
say
the
name
of
the
passenger,
the
driver,
the
driver's
license
number
and
the
vehicle
registration
number.
However,
the
company
involved
in
this
complaint,
the
information
he
received,
was
that
they
couldn't
trace
the
car
and
they
weren't
able
to
try
to
drive
her
or
they
were
having
difficulty.
H
Sorry,
I'm
just
double
checking
the
exactly
what
the
appendix
says,
the
fact
that
they've
got
records
at
the
time.
Might
I
mean
I
can
remember
the
the
the
complaint
council,
we
weren't
sure
if
something
happened
late,
one
day
or
early
the
next
day,
I
can't
remember
now
there
was
some
question
about
exactly
the
the
the
the
time
of
day
the
whole
purpose
of
having
that
record
keeping
is
so
we
can
trace
exactly
that
complaints.
H
I
can
remember
you
saying
it's
a
constituent
in
her
90s
who's
going
for
a
blood
transfusion
or
checkup
did
not
want
to
bother
her.
I
absolutely
did
not
want
to
worry
her
anymore
in
in
terms
of
that,
and
it's
absolutely
the
case
that
we
want
the
the
good
record
keeping
it's
the
same
reason.
H
We
want
the
livery
and
the
stickers
on
the
vehicles
so
that
someone
knows
what
operator
that
vehicle
you
know
was
was
working
for
so
the
fact
that
some
sometimes
and
it
maybe
it
might
be
like
I'll
I'll,
ask
a
bit
more
and
find
out
exactly
what
what
sort
of
response,
whether
we
think
we've
been
fobbed
off
on
on
this
complaint.
That's
the
whole
reason
why
we
want
the
booking
record
so
that
so
that
we
can
trace
the
passenger,
so
abs,
absolutely
and
and
then
talk
to
the
driver.
H
The
the
reality
there
is
that
we
can
have
the
very
strongest
policy
conditions,
but
if
you
can't
then
trace
the
driver
and
say
exactly
which
vehicle
it
was
or
which
driver
it
was
the
the
policies,
don't
really
have
a
hard
edge
in
terms
of
applicability
in
the
real
world,
they
they
sit
being
counselor
policies
rather
than
having
real
effect.
H
C
So,
in
terms
of
the
recommendations
on
that
the
purpose
of
content
on
the
information-
yes,
we've
considered
the
proposed
response
and
we've
made
those
further
recommendations,
so
especially
on
that
review
of
officer
decisions
by
members
and
linked
to
the
annual
licensing
report
in
the
march
committee,
which
will
be
fantastic
any
other
points
there.
C
Really,
thank
you.
That's
really
important.
We've
been
waiting
for
that
for
years
literally
years,
so
it's
really
good
that
we've
been
able
to
consider
that
I'm
really
good
work
by
andrew
and
the
team.
Actually
in
a
in
a
big
response,
there
is
a
very
meaty
response,
and
so
hopefully
dft
will
take
that
on
board
so
on
to
gender
item
nine
date
of
time
date
to
time.
C
The
next
meeting
is
to
be
today
I
mean
that's
a
later
date,
although
we
do
have
maybe
a
couple
of
items
for
february
at
least
one
item
and
so
just
need
a
date
of
a
february
meeting
john.
I
don't
know
if
about
looking
back
at
last
year's
diary,
what
what
we
usually
have
for
a
february
meeting
chair.
C
That's
fine
and
I
will
get
a
date
firmed
up
and
sent
out
to
members
asap.
Thank
you.
Otherwise.
That
concludes
the
business
of
the
meeting,
which
is
great.
So
thank
you.
Everyone.
It's
been
really
good
to
be
back
as
a
whole
committee.
Again,
you
know,
10
10
months
is
a
long
time.
So
really
great
there
see
you
all
soon,
hopefully
subcommittees.
C
You
know
we'll
all
see
each
other,
maybe
not
as
intense
as
back
in
august
once
this
third
lockdown
is
over,
but
I'm
sure
we'll
see
each
other's
faces
quite
soon
anyway.
So
thank
you.
Everyone
thank
you
to
everyone.
Who's
been
watching.