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A
Good
afternoon,
everyone
and
welcome
to
this
meeting
of
North
and
East
plans
panel,
my
name
is
Javed
actor
and
I
will
be
chatting.
Today's
meeting
could
I
remind
everyone
that
today's
meeting
has
been
live
streamed
on
lead
city,
council,
YouTube
channels,
so
that
the
public
can
observe
the
meeting
without
needing
to
be
present.
A
North
and
east
plans
panel
deals
with
applications
from
North,
East
and
the
east
of
the
city.
The
aim
of
the
panel
is
to
hear
all
the
information
from
applicants.
Members
of
the
public
Council
offices
to
help
members
of
the
panel
to
make
their
decision
could
I
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves
and
mute
your
microphone
once
you
have
introduced
yourself
if
I
can
start
from
the
left.
The
video.
E
Good
afternoon
councilor
David
Jenkins
from
killingbeck
and
seeker
of
Ward
good.
A
I
Thank
you
chair
under
gender
item
one.
There
are
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents,
a
gender
item.
Two
there
are
no
late.
There
are
no
exempt
items,
sorry
and
under
gender
item
three.
There
are
no
late
items
under
gender
item.
Four
could
I
ask
members
to
declare
any
interests.
J
Yesterday,
although
it's
not
for
cunery,
when
I
arrived
at
Civic
Hall
today,
I
realized
that
one
of
the
speaking
and
objection
is
known
as
family
friend,
so
I
haven't
discussed
any
of
the
application
beforehand.
So
I
approach
with
an
open
mind,
but
it's
for
the
record
to.
I
A
Thank
you
item
six
minutes
of
previous
meeting
held
on
29th
of
June
2023.
Do
members
accept
these
minutes
are
true
and
correct.
Record
I'll
assume
correct
unless
indicated.
Otherwise,
are
members
happy
to
move
these?
Thank
you,
councilor
McKenna.
Anyone!
Second,
thank
you.
Councilor
Sharps.
Are
there
any
materializing.
A
No
item
seven
can
I
ask
the
officer
to
present
report.
Please.
B
Thank
you
chair,
so
this
application
relates
to
a
retrospective
proposal
for
the
sighting
of
one
static
caravan
and
one
touring
Caravan
with
some
Associated
Works,
including
the
movement
of
an
existing
gate.
So
the
application
has
been
brought
to
plans
panel
at
the
request
of
Ward
members.
Ward
members
objected
to
the
scheme
that
they
consider
the
use
of
the
land
which
is
part
of
a
wider
allotment
site
and
is
protected.
B
So
this
slide
shows
the
site
outlined
in
red,
as
you
can
see,
there's
a
hedge
buffer
to
the
east
and
south
and
west,
and
there
are
Residential
Properties
to
the
south
of
the
site
on
Sunday
Terrace,
which
is
down
in
this
area.
B
Here
the
site
is
protected
by
local
Green
Space
policy
under
ge1,
as
mentioned
earlier
from
the
kippax
neighborhood
plan,
and
this
development
would
be
contrary
to
the
policy
and
the
appropriate
tests
require
the
applicant
to
put
forward
very
special
circumstances
and
you
can
see
to
the
northeast
corner
with
a
static
caravan
and
touring.
Caravan
are
cited
and
also
to
the
West
corner,
where
historic
buildings
are
cited.
B
So
the
next
slide
that
shows
a
separate
site
to
the
West.
B
The
very
special
circumstance
in
this
case
were
only
afforded
some
way
as
the
family
had
a
stable
living
situation,
and
the
inspector
stated
that
an
unsuccessful
planning
application
would
not
have
resulted
in
a
disproportionate
interference
with
their
human
rights
for
the
application
brought
to
members
today.
The
very
special
circumstances
put
forward
by
the
applicant
are
considered
to
have
substantial
weight
in
the
report.
The
family
were
living
roadside
previously
to
moving
to
the
site
at
sandgate,
stables
and
two
of
the
applicant's
children
are
attending
the
local
Primary
School.
B
The
Proposal
will
be
contrary
to
policies
GE,
one
of
the
kippax
labor
plan
and
gs1
of
the
sap
and
G6
of
the
core
strategy.
However,
it's
for
members
to
decide
today
whether
the
very
special
circumstances
set
out
are
considered
to
outweigh
this,
a
temporary
planning
permission
and
which
is
personal
to
the
African
and
his
family
only
has
been
considered
to
be
suitable
in
this
instance,
as
this
will
allow
for
more
sites
to
come
forward
with
local
plan
2040
corporate
sites
and
will
not
disrupt
the
children's
education
or
safety.
B
So
it's
important
to
note
as
well.
There
are
two
sites
which
are
currently
provided
by
the
council,
cuttingly
Springs
and
kidaca
park.
They
total
49
pitches
and
all
of
those
pictures
are
full
and
the
council
doesn't
yet
have
a
five-year
supply
of
deliverable
sites.
Leedsgate.
The
charity,
which
has
been
assisting
the
applicants
family,
is
aware
of
other
families
which
have
been
in
a
similar
position
and
they're
on
a
wait
list
for
the
council's
provided
pictures
for
about
two
years
so
far,
and
so
the
next
slide,
which
is
Slide
Five.
B
This
slide
shows
the
current
retrospective
proposal,
which
some
alterations
to
the
which
shows
some
alterations
to
the
site
layout,
such
as
the
movement
of
the
gate,
and
also
the
addition
of
Bin
stores
and
cycle
stores,
so
in
the
northeast
corner
of
the
plot,
they're,
the
static
caravan
and
the
touring
Caravan,
and
to
the
West
corner
of
the
plot.
B
There's
space
for
vehicles
to
park
and
also
the
historic,
stable,
like
agricultural
buildings
to
the
South,
are
two
open
grass
areas
and
then,
in
the
center,
you've
got
a
gravel
path
which
leads
down
to
the
rear
of
the
site.
B
B
B
B
Again,
yeah
there,
so
they
were
over
in
this
corner
here
on
the
fence,
so
those
electric
ports
run
the
electricity
to
the
static
caravan
and
Northern
grid
have
connected
those
ports
in
and
then
regarding
the
access
and
and
the
access
path,
which
is
the
gravel
path
here.
B
And
we're
also
proposing
another
condition
which
will
require
the
applicant
to
submit
a
a
site
plan
which
basically
shows
the
land
uses
of
each
section
of
the
site.
So
if
we
can
go
just
back
to
the
the
slide
with
the
site
layout,
sorry,
which
is
earlier
yep
just
one
before
that,
so
it
would
require
the
applicant
to
just
say
the
use
of
each
land.
And
then
that
will
be
restricted
to
say
the
allotment
land
here
or
open
space
use
for
horses
here
and
then
the
use
of
the
static
Caravans.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
We
have
speakers
against
the
proposal.
Could
I
invite
them
to
the
table
once
you
are
ready?
You
have
four
minutes
to
share
between
you.
To
put
your
case
to
the
panel
is
Mr
Whitfield
Mr
courts
and
Council
Lewis.
M
M
Although
recommendation
is
temporary,
there
is
a
need
to
reflect
on
the
detrimental
harm.
This
illegal
development
is
having
on
the
land
substantial
way
it
must
be
given
to
the
land's
designation,
even
though
it
states
this
does
not
alter.
It
is
already
not
presenting
as
Green
Space,
and
it
is
at
risk
of
being
irrepairable.
M
Furthermore,
this
allotment
does
not
sit
in
isolation
away
from
other
allotments
in
the
surrounding
areas.
Yes,
other
allotments
have
outbuildings,
but
these
are
not
causing
destruction
to
the
natural
habitat,
and
nor
are
they
a
dwelling
where
the
Caravan
is
cited
is
not
where
buildings
were
prior
to
the
previous
owner
and
the
hard
standing
and
building
was
erected,
and
then
the
building
was
taken
down
in
a
static
caravan
placed
on
there,
and
that
was
open
to
enforcement
action.
N
Yes,
good
afternoon
everybody,
my
name
is
Jerry
Whitfield
I'm,
the
current
chairman
of
the
committee
of
volunteers,
which
manages
the
Castleford
and
District
allotment
Federation.
First
of
all,
I
would
like
to
contradict
the
solicitors
letter.
That's
on
this
application,
which
claims
that
the
alarm
and
Federation
gave
a
right-of-way
across
a
strip
of
land
adjacent
to
Sanger
Terrace
onto
this
allotment.
N
N
Furthermore,
that
letter
says
that
the
requirement
to
update
or
to
keep
updated
the
roadway
indicates
that
the
right-of-way
exists.
Well,
I've
got
in
front
of
me
the
land
registry
document
for
that
plot,
and
it
does
not
include
that
strip
of
land.
What
it
does
include
is
a
half
of
the
track
which
runs
through
the
center
of
the
field,
and
that
is
the
correct
entry
entryway
onto
this
strip
of
land
and
when
it
says
there
is
a
requirement
for
the
owner
to
maintain
the
roadway.
N
So
that's
the
solicitors
letter
counters
failed,
allotments
and,
and
it's
not
sandgate
Stables,
it's
Carter's
field
allotments
have
been
allotments
since
1958
and,
in
fact,
Mr
shackleton's
parents
who,
who
worked
that
allotment
you
used
to
actually
sell
their
Surplus
produce
to
the
local
women.
My
my
wife
used
to
go
on
to
that
allotment
and
buy,
buy
the
produce.
Can.
A
O
Thank
you
chair.
Our
objections
as
well.
Members
are
set
out
in
the
paper,
so
I
believe
the
committee
has.
The
panel
has
had
a
good
site
of
our
of
our
objections.
A
couple
of
points
I
would
underline
chair
and
happy
to
answer
any
questions
on
the
Committees.
First
of
all,
the
kippax
neighborhood
plan
was
voted
for
by
the
residents
of
kippuk's,
of
which
I
am
one
in
February
2019.
O
It
is
a
recent
and
relevant
document
setting
out
the
status
of
the
land,
the
the
compelling
planning
arguments,
while
this
land
is
not
suitable
for
the
Youth
proposed,
as
Egyptian
traveler
pitch
again
have
been
established
in
so
many
committee
meetings
and
inspectors.
Reports
as
he
I
do
not
believe
the
immunity
of
how
the
site
will
be
managed
in
terms
of
utilities
is
covered
adequately
in
here
and
finally,
the
one
of
the
buildings
that
was
referred
to
as
historic
is
actually
if
I
can
refer
members
to
the
planning
paper.
O
It
is
a
building
in
paragraph
13
covered
by
that
enforcement
action,
so
I,
don't
think
it
can
be
considered.
A
historic
building.
Chair
I'll
leave
my
comments
there,
but
more
than
happy
to
answer
question.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Any
questions.
J
A
Make
sure
yeah
if
I
can
I
mean
I
started
off
with
the
first
question
and
I
think
this
tradition
came
from
yourself,
Council
Stevenson,
if
I
remember
correctly,.
J
We'll
look
forward
to
continuing
it,
I
just
councilor
Lewis.
One
of
the
then
arguments
put
forward
here
is
around
personal
circumstance
and
access
to
schools
and
I
just
wondered
as
a
ward
member.
If
you
could
just
inform
us
how
many
primary
schools
are
in
the
locality,
so
perhaps
in
in
kippax
alone,.
D
This
is
one
that
starts
at
Jerry,
mainly
paragraph
52,
page
27,
of
the
report,
references
the
Green
Space
background
paper,
which
suggests
that
there's
a
surplus
of
allotments
against
the
standards
of
a
policy
for
open
space.
Is
it
your
understanding
that
there's
a
surplus
of
allotments
in
the
local
area.
N
Well,
Mr
chairman:
we
have
100
tenants
across
four
sites
in
kippax
and
we
have
a
waiting
list
as
well
for
allotments,
so
there
may
be
a
surplus
across
the
area,
but
there
certainly
is
as
isn't
a
surplus
in
kippax.
One
of
the
members
of
the
waiting
list
has
been
on
the
list
since
September
19
well
three
years
ago,
so
21
2021.
So
there
may
be
a
surplus
elsewhere,
but
there
certainly
is
a
isn't
a
surplus
in
kippax.
K
You
may
think
cancer
lose
me.
Think
I
should
know
the
answer
already,
but
when
the
site
allocations
plan
was
being
discussed,
the
last
time
did
this
site
come
forward
at
any
time
by
any
of
the
landowners
as
a
potential
development
site,
or
has
it
never
ever
been
considered
a
development
site.
O
Thank
you,
councilor
Anderson,
my
recollection
is
that
it
has
never
been
brought
forward
as
a
development
site,
either
by
the
allotment
Federation,
who
a
substantial
landowner
on
the
site
or
any
of
the
previous
landowners.
Indeed,
when
some
of
the
plots
have
been
sold,
they'll
be
marketed
as
allotment
land
to
underline
that
status.
H
Sorry,
thank
you
chair.
There
was
concern
regarding
what
was
referred
to
as
Carter's
field
allotment
regarding
the
approach
Road.
When
we
were
on
site
today
we
saw
on
one
side
it
was
a
paddock
and
then
the
other
side.
H
There
was
just
grassland
scrub
grassland
with
some
Dumpling
on
it,
but
we
also
noticed
there
was
at
least
one
electric
charging
point
on
it,
and
we
didn't
quite
understand
that
I
will
ask
the
applicant
the
same
question,
but
could
that
be
just
the
fact
that
you
think
that
this
developed
may
turn
out
to
be
bigger
than
actually
what
we
have
before
us.
M
So
I
think
in
terms
of
the
area
itself,
so
I've
been
part
of
the
Castleford
District
London
Federation,
as
well,
so
in
reference
to
the
strip
of
land
that
you
referred
to,
that's
something
that
the
Federation
is
still
Consulting
with
land
registry
about,
because
on
previous
documents,
it's
believed
that
it
should
be
registered
to
the
Castleford
District
Federation.
M
The
electric
point
that
you're
referring
to
was
put
in
place
by
the
previous
owner,
and
there
was
some
discrepancy
around
what
was
happening
there,
but
nothing
further
came
in
terms
of
information.
Shared
residents
and
enforcement
were
involved
anywhere
upon
restoring
the
land
back
to
its
original
purpose.
O
Thank
you,
councilman
Cannon,
just
on
the
question
of
land
ownership,
I
think
it's
important
to
look
at
them.
You'd
been
on
the
unfortunately
I
couldn't
come
on
the
site
visit
this
morning.
I
had
the
West
Yorkshire
combined
Authority
meeting,
but
the
roadway
is
adopted
highway,
but
the
land
beneath
the
adopted
highway
is
not
owned
by
the
city
council.
O
The
city
council's
ownership
only
starts
at
the
cartilage
of
the
property,
so
I
just
I
think
that's
an
important
thing
to
say
on
the
land
ownership
question
is
London
Highway,
that's
definitely
not
either
adopted
or
owned
by
Lead
City
Council.
A
P
Good
afternoon
panel,
it's
about
scratchyard
from
Master
Design
Consultants,
who
are
acting
on
behalf
of
the
client.
P
Mr
Smith
the
applicant
has
been
residing
at
the
site
since
June
2022,
with
his
four
children
of
school
age,
James,
Andrew
Smith,
five-year-old
Adam,
Lawrence,
Smith,
nine
Diane,
Smith
12
and
Leona
Smith
14.
Both
the
younger
two
children
out
attend
kippax
ash
tree
Primary
School
development
produce
retrospective
permission
for
the
second
of
a
static
touring
Caravan
and
there's
no
other
domestic
paraphernalia
on
the
site.
P
Just
a
point,
I
want
to
just
raised
from
the
previous
comments.
The
land
was
purchased
by
Adam
Smith
and
he
had
enforcement
or
action
for
a
steel
frame.
Building
the
building
was
removed
by
Mr
Smith
and
the
hard
standing
that
the
building
sat
on
was
retained,
which
Now
sucks
the
Caravans
Mr
Smith
and
his
wife
had
significance
in
part
in
allowing
the
children
to
gain
education
through
the
state
school
process,
and
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
they
have
decided
to
occupy
the
site
and
purchase
the
land.
P
The
Council
of
a
are
unable
to
demonstrate
a
five-year
supply
for
traveler
sites
and,
on
speaking
to
leedsgate,
they've
sort
of
confirmed
that
there's
a
short
four
sites
available
in
the
Leeds
area,
back
to
moving
on
the
side,
the
family,
to
live
roadside
before
citing
themselves
at
the
application
site
because
of
lack
of
Alternatives.
If
permission
is
refused,
then
the
like
was
Mr,
Smith
and
his
family
and
have
nowhere
else.
Nowhere
else
to
go
so
they
would
be
moving
to
another
unauthorized
site
or
living
roadside
living.
P
P
P
P
So
we
started
struggling
to
understand
why
there's
a
shortfall
of
allotments
and
the
last
point
which
really
want
to
raise
with
there's
electric
as
they've
been
outlined
on
the
site,
the
tenant.
Well,
the
Mr
Smith
is
being
Council
taxed.
He
has
waste
collection
weekly,
which
includes
Tyler's,
been
emptied
Etc.
There
are
registered
with
local
doctors
and
two
younger
children
registered
with
a
primary
school,
with
two
older
children
being
educated
by
leedsgate.
D
And
thanks
chair
paragraph
15
on
page
19
states
that
the
family
had
to
leave.
The
cottingly
say
is
that
referring
to
the
council's
cuttingly
traveler
site.
P
D
Thanks?
What
were
the
issues
that
they
were
having
on
the
site.
P
There's
a
lot
of
from
what
we
can.
What
I
can
establish
there's
a
lot
of
been
a
lot
of
violence
between
families
on
the
site
and
they
had
no
issues
on
the
site,
but
the
basically
with
the
children
being
of
a
young
nature
and
Adam,
and
his
wife
decided
that
it
wasn't
the
most
appropriate
place
to
bring
the
children
up,
and
so
they
left
the
site
for
just
general
safety
reasons.
Really
and
I
wanted
basically
to
reside
somewhere
where
they
could
sort
of
I
suppose
living
normal
family
life.
D
P
P
What
we're
discussing
today,
so
you
do
generally
find
that
the
larger
the
sites,
the
more
families
there
are
the
more
problems,
but
they
would
be
happy
as
I
say,
going
on
a
site
where
there's
there's
less
issues
as
such,
but
the
kindly
is
well
known
within
local
authorities
having
its
own
sort
of
problems.
J
Thank
you,
Chad
So,
when
you
say
that
your
client
was
living
roadside
was
that
at
the
period
when
the
two
children
were
admitted
into
one
of
the
local
schools.
P
So
the
children,
when
they
were
living
roadside
in
various
parts
of
the
Lake
District,
they
would
attend
a
local
primary
school,
but
they
wouldn't
be
there
for
such
long
periods,
they've
been
in
various
schools
and
they
wanted
stability
for
the
children.
P
So
when
they
had
the
opportunity
to
buy
the
land,
that's
meant
that
the
kids
can
you
know
we
follow
a
sort
of
a
full
education
sort
of
process,
and
so
that's
the
reason
why
they've
resided
and
and
it's
and
as
I
say,
the
laws
are
now
that
if
you
pull
up
roadside,
then
it's
against
the
law.
So
it's
a
catch-22
situation
really.
J
P
J
They're
only
in
that
school
by
virtue
of
the
fact
they're
occupying
that
land
at
present,
that's
great
okay,
were
you
advising
your
client
at
the
point
that
a
number
of
planning
breaches
occurred
on
the
site.
P
So
my
client
was
when
they
purchased
land.
They
were
aware
that
there
was
an
enforcement
case
for
a
steel
frame
structure
that
was
on
the
hard
standing
that
sax
the
Caravans.
They
were
totally
aware
of
that
and
on
completion
of
the
of
the
said
land
they
remove
the
structure
at
the
instruction
myself,
because
there
was
an
enforcement
case
against
that,
so
that
was
removed
the
hand
standing
was
retained
and
then
submitted
as
part
of
the
application.
Today,.
P
H
Thank
you
chair
you,
you
did
say
that
they
were
formerly
living
on
Cottonwood
Springs,
which
is
a
gypsy
and
traveler
sites
that
has
existed
for
many
many
years,
not
far
from
my
own
world,
I
have
to
say
and
I
have
visited
on
a
number
of
occasions,
there's
a
fact
that
they
actually
give
up
the
pitch
there
and
win
roadside
could
be
deemed
that
they
intentionally
made
himself
homeless.
P
The
the
reason
they
left
there
is
because
there's
been
a
lot
of
issues.
I
know.
Local
Authority
are
aware
of
a
lot
of
family
issues,
not
with
their
family,
but
they
just
felt
they
wanted
a
safe
environment.
P
They
had
the
opportunity,
then,
to
purchase
the
land
after
the
bin
Rod
side,
so
they've
been
living
roadside
for
probably
six
nine
months
before
they
moved
on
to
sandgate
Terrace.
H
But,
as
you
know,
and
most
of
us
in
this
room
will
know
that
we
buy
the
property
or
we
rent
a
property,
but
we
can
always
pick
our
neighbors,
even
in
my
street.
I
won't
mention
where
to
live,
but
I
can
tell
you
that
I
have
problems
with
at
least
one
neighbor
and
in
modern
living.
The
way
we
we
can't
afford
to
own
vast
trucks
of
land
with
no
other
houses
around
there.
H
We
will
always
get
this
and
there
has
to
be
compromises
on
this.
And
could
you
tell
me
what
compromises
was
made
by
your
client
to
actually
settle
the
dispute
or
the
unease?
They
had
we're
living
on
a
registered
site
that
obviously
meets
all
the
requirements
and
then
moving
off
and
going
roadside.
That
is
a
bit
that
I'm
struggling
to
understand.
P
I
think
the
from
speaking
to
the
client
when
they
were
living
on
Cotton
late
was
it
was
the
issues
that
were
around
them
and
they
didn't
want
to
bring
their
children
up
in
that
environment.
So
there
it
was
their
decision
to
move
from
the
cottonley
side
and
go
roadside
and
live
in
roadside.
They
were
living
independently.
P
So
there
were
no
other
families
living
with
them.
They
were
just
living
with
the
six
of
them:
four
children,
the
two
adults
and
then
subsequently.
They
then
were
looking
for
a
piece
of
land
to
purchase,
which
is
what
they've
done
and
they've
purchased
it
for
the
old
incapacs,
with
a
view
of
getting
storm
stability,
now
just
a
lack
of
size
and
there's
two
main
sites
for
the
whole
of
the
Leeds
district.
P
And
if
you
speak
to
Leeds
gay,
they
have
sort
of
indicated
there's
about
1600
families
in
the
UK
waiting
for
for
sites
for
travelers
and
but
the
government
have
brought
in
legislation
that
doesn't
allow
travelers
to
pull
up
roadside.
So
it's
it's
just
a
difficult
situation
that
the
families
find
themselves
in.
H
I'm
still
struggling
to
quite
understand,
as
I
said,
the
fact
that
they
moved
off
a
recognized
site
where
all
the
facilities
necessary.
It's
puzzling
to
me-
I
lived
there
nine
months.
Why
would
anybody
want
to
do
that?
But
secondly,
I
can
tell
you
that
in
culturally
Springs,
which
is
not
far
from
where
I
represent,
there
are
lots
of
kids,
young
children
who
go
to
local
schools
and
indeed
they
are
settling
in
very
well.
One
of
them
is
certainly
Army
Primary
School,
which
is
in
my
world
and
they're.
H
Well
looked
after
they're,
well,
educated
it,
it
doesn't
seem
a
very
sound
reason
for
going
roadside.
Surely
there
was
complaints
with
neighbors,
we
have
enabled
nuisance
which
could
intervene
and
take
the
appropriate
steps.
But,
as
I
say,
it's
a
very
drastic
step
to
make
yourself
homeless
and
decide
to
live.
Probably
was
all
last
winter
on
the
roadside,
it's
a
big
step.
Can
you
tell
me
ivani
what
steps
did
your
client
take
to
reach
out
to
try
to
resolve
the
issue
of
their
problems
with
living
on
continually
spring
sites?.
P
So
that
they're,
like
that
as
I,
say
I'm
only
going
off
from
a
clients
explain
to
me
so
they
left
the
cutting.
My
spring
side
spent
that
six
nine
months
roadside
within
that
time
there
were
they're
heavily
involved
with
Leeds
gate,
so
when
I
first
met
the
family,
that
leedsgate
were
totally
aware
of
the
family
in
their
circumstances,
and
they
were
aware
that
they'd
purchased
the
land
and
left
the
cotton
in
the
springs
and
they've
been
roadside
for
nine
months.
So
that's
all
I
was
told,
but
I
was
told.
H
Just
one
more
question,
chair,
I'm,
afraid
they're
arising
from
the
answers
of
the
representative,
did
they
receive
any
advice
from
leedsgate
and
did
Leeds
gate?
Give
the
money,
guidings
or
Hell
of
the
matter
of
cot
English
Springs
could
be
resolved
because
I'm
I
know
leedsgate
very
well.
We
all
do
around
the
table
and
I
have
dealt
with
him
many
times
over
the
last
30
years,
but
it
seems
to
me
that
they
had
a
a
role
there
to
actually
resolve
the
issue
where
they
called
upon,
and
did
they
in
fact
act
on
your
clients?
H
P
P
Gay
I
got
in
touch
with
him,
I
deal
with
them
regularly
and
they
explained
that
yeah,
the
family
had
been
roadside
previous
doctor,
Colony
Springs
and
the
residing,
and
they
were
assisting
them
with
getting
the
kids
into
the
local
Primary
School
doctors,
dentist
and
just
yeah
Aid
in
the
family
at
the
time,
and
that's
as
I
said,
that's
literally
everything
I've
Been
Told.
A
Thank
you,
I've
got
a
couple
of
other
colleagues.
I've
shown
the
interest
to
speak,
but
can
I
just
trying
to
clarify
my
own
mind
with
Saskatchewan.
At
the
beginning
of
your
remarks,
you
said
between
6
to
12
months,
the
the
family
was
on
roadside
and
then
is
turned
down
to
six
and
nine
months.
Could
you
exactly
please
yeah?
Could
you
yeah
I'm
once
six
to
nine
months,
okay,
Council
Stevenson.
J
P
The
two
older
children,
the
general
sort
of
route
of
Travelers
families,
is
the
the
children,
go
to
Primary
School
and
then
not
all
families
going
to
secondary
education
through
a
general
secondary
school.
So
what
they
do
is
they
get
educated
through
Leeds
gate
and
a
talk
through
leedsgate,
so
Leeds
get
are
the
ones
who
are
providing
the
education
for
the
two
older
children.
So
they
don't
go
through
the
mainstream
secondary
education.
P
J
J
J
We
deal
with
let's
move
on
to
the
land
in
question.
You
mentioned
it
was
purchased
Freehold.
What
was
the
purchase
price.
P
J
How
much
do
these
we
saw
the
Caravans
on
the
thing
I
mean
if,
if
you
go
to
any
sort
of
Holiday
Park
on
the
East
Coast
these
days,
I
think
they
they
go
for
about
80
grand
these
Caravans
these
days.
So
what's
the
asset
value
of
the
two
Caravans
inside
so.
J
P
They
are
from
a
traveling
Gypsy
Community,
so
you
tend
to
find
with
Egyptian
traveler
community
that
the
the
the
don't
live
in
houses
like
the
rest
of
us
and
it's
a
cultural
thing.
P
G
Thanks
chair
just
following
on
from
what
councilor
McKenna
said,
it
is
true
that
you
can't
you
know
wherever
you
buy,
whether
you
buy
or
wherever
you
live.
You
can't
choose
your
neighbors,
but
in
relation
to
this
application,
if,
if
it
was
granted
and
after
three
years
the
family
had
to
move
away,
where
would
if,
if
they've,
moved
from
Cottonwood
Springs
and
put
the
family
basically
on
the
roadside
with
children,
where
would
they
go
from
there
if
there
was
no
availability
on
that
side?.
P
I
think
the
the
general
problem
has
been
involved
with
quite
a
few
of
the
Travelers
families.
Is
that
just
the
lack
of
sites
available
so
there's
more
sites
available
then,
rather
than
trying
to
contain
all
your
Travelers
onto
two
sites
within
the
Leeds
area,
which
is
just
totally
impossible,
I
think
there's
more
sides
than
they're
happy
go
to
a
site
that
was
appropriate,
but
there
are
other
individual
sites
with
temporary
consents
in
it
on
in
leads
that
have
been
granted
and
some
that
are
also
permanent.
A
P
So
I
explained
to
him
that
the
the
reasons
and
what
was
required
and
what
process
we
needed
to
follow,
which
is
in
theory,
what
we've
done
and
end
up
at
the
stage
today
and
I've
explained
to
him
that
if,
if
planning
was
granted
will
be
a
temporary
consent,
until
you
know,
I
mean
the
psychic
became
available
or
other
sites
within
the
Leeds
area
and
I
said
it
would
never
be.
P
You
know,
I
mean
as
I
say
it's
a
temporary
measure
with
a
view
that
at
some
stage
in
the
future,
the
land
would
have
to
be
reinstated
to
its
original
use.
H
Thank
you,
chair.
Apologies
for
coming
back,
I
did
get
involved
a
little
bit
with
allowing
the
line
of
question
I
wasn't
yet
very
far
and
I
just
said
it
was
wasn't
an
answer
to
my
satisfaction,
but
when
I
asked
the
question
of
the
objectors,
I
did
talk
about
the
already
fixed
electric
point
that
we
saw
on
site
and
I
mean
people
can
if
they
go
to
the
map
without
putting
it
up.
H
It's
as
you
come
in
the
gate
on
the
right
hand,
side
across
from
the
paddock
area,
it's
quite
a
large
section,
and
there
are
two
fixed
points
that
have
servicing
and
probably
electricity.
There
I
can
understand
the
objectives
being
concerned
that
there
is
possibly
possibly
breaches
of
the
planning
permission
in
the
pipeline
already
and
I.
Think
it'd
give
considerable
Comfort
to
members
around
the
table
and
perhaps
local
residents.
H
If
you
could
say
that
that
grass
area,
which
was
a
lot
meant,
the
points
could
be
removed
and
in
fact
they
could
be
restored
to
allotments.
There's
no
other
purpose
for
it.
If
you
weren't
able
to
make
that
guarantee
and
put
it
in
in
their
in
the
planning
permission,
I
think
we'd
all
feel
more
at
ease
with
what
has
been
proposed
today.
P
Yeah,
the
electric
was
basically
originally:
they
were
running
off
a
generator
which
can
be
quite
tend
to
be
quite
noisy.
So
Adam
basically
got
the
supply
put
to
the
site
and
the
electric
provided.
So
that's
the
Electric's
been
provided
for
the
site.
Generator
is
now
gone,
the
two
pieces
of
land
to
the
front.
It
just
tends
to
keep
his
three
horses
that
he's
got
on
those
land.
H
Saying
could
or
will
be,
and
you
would
sign
you
would
be
willing
for
that
Amendment
to
the
planning
application.
P
D
Sorry
we're
going
back
to
the
same
thing,
but
it's
slightly
different,
so
it's
a
temporary
position
three
years
and
the
plan
is
that
other
sites
during
that
time
would
come
forward.
So
the
emphasis
was
on
your
client
to
now
be
considering
looking
for
other
sites.
Is
your
client
currently
in
the
process
of
looking
for
alternative
sites.
P
Yes,
McLean
is
has
always
looked
to
altered
sites,
but
it's
like
you,
speak
to
Leeds,
gay
and
and
they're
quite
helpful
for
the
traveling
community
and
they're
just
constantly
saying
yeah.
You
can
register
for
the
sites,
but
there's
just
no
sites
available.
So
I've
got
a
client
who's
25
down
the
line
in
Barnsley
for
a
site
and
it's
it's
the
the
release
about
two
sites
a
year.
So
it's
the
time
issue
it's
just
as
a
lack
of
size
available.
D
Yeah
I
completely
understand
that
and,
as
the
report
says,
on
average
about
two
sites
come
up
each
year
and
obviously
this
permission
would
give
your
client
three
years
to
live
on
this
site.
D
So
on
the
basis
of
that
in
the
next
three
years,
six
sites
would
come
available,
so
it's
pretty
likely
that
an
alternative
site
will
not
become
available
in
the
space
of
this
permission
in
particular,
given
the
fact
that
your
client
yeah
it's
clear,
the
report
and
I
completely
understand
there's
a
lack
of
plots
available
for
the
traveling
Community,
but
your
client
obviously
did
have
one
of
them
on
the
cottony
site
and
chose
to
leave
it
now.
D
Obviously,
I
don't
know
that
what
happened
on
that
site
and
I
can
completely
understand
that
it,
it
might
not
have
been
in
appropriate
circumstance
for
those
children,
but
given
your
clients,
opinions
in
that
regard,
it's
very
likely
that
there
will
not
be
an
appropriate
site
that
will
come
up
in
the
three
years
and
so,
given
that
I
I
find
it
hard
to
believe
that
after
three
years
we
won't
effectively
be
granting
an
indefinite
plan
for
him
for
the
family
to
stay.
There.
P
Regarding
other
sites
that
we've
dealt
with
in
Leeds,
that
has
not
been
the
case
where
they've
basically
reapplied
and
got
an
approval.
They've
got
maybe
another
three
year
temporary,
but
it's
never
been
a
fixed
approval
and
each
Authority
seems
to
have
a
different,
take
Wakefield
they're,
just
issue
a
five-year
temporary
and
make
sure
that
they
register
on
every
site
that's
available
within
the
area,
but
where
you,
where
they've,
come
off
one
site
and
ended
up
on
their
own
land
as
one
family.
P
Somebody
who's
on
that
list
has
gone
them
back
onto
that
site.
So
it's
the
and
you
tend
to
find
that
the
the
they
tend
to
have
children
quite
Young,
so
you're
just
constantly
creating
that
issue
of
more
sites
been
needed
and
there's
just
a
shortage.
It's
just
nationally
as
well.
It's
not
just
leads
it's
everywhere.
P
The
what
they
explained
to
me
was
that
they
were
on
cuttingly
that
got.
You
know,
I
mean
far
younger
children
that
as
I
say,
have
gone
through
the
ages
already
and
they
were
living
on
that
side.
So
it
wasn't
directly
at
them
as
a
family,
but
they
basically
felt
that
for
their
kids
safety
and
that
they
didn't
want
to
be
on
that
on
that
side.
P
F
Actually
sorry
I'm
looking
that
actually
answered
my
question
to
be
honest,
my
question
what
I
was
would
assume
and
I'm
guessing
there
will
be
a
process
for
them
to
go,
speak
to
someone
say
I'm
uncomfortable
with
this,
and
what
measures
did
they
deal
to
actually
try
to
maintain
their
ability
to
stop
on
that
site?
Or
was
it
just
a
simple
amount
that
they
were
moving
off.
P
They
they
made
the
decision
to
move
off.
That's
what
they've
told
me
I
literally,
do
not
know
any
more
than
that.
I,
don't
know
the
circumstances
of
it,
but
it's
not
something
that
I've
I've
seen
it
before.
It's
quite
a
common
thing
that
you
know
I
mean
properties
tend
to
be
on
top
of
each
other.
The
kids
are
on
top
of
each
other
and
as
I
say,
they're
just
a
lack
of
sights.
If
we
provide
more
size,
then
we
wouldn't
be
here
today.
A
L
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you,
chair
I'm,
very
much
aware,
and
it's
very
obvious.
This
is
an
incredibly
difficult
application
for
for
us
to
to
to
deal
with
and
as
a
result
of
that,
I
can
fully
understand
the
questions.
L
Members
have
in
respect
of
the
context
and
the
sequence
of
events
and
why
we're
in
the
position
that
we
are
now-
and
that
is
it's
helpful
to
have
that
background,
but
when
we
move
forward,
ultimately,
the
decision
that
members
are
going
to
have
to
to
reach
is
on
the
proposal
that
we
currently
have
before
us
and
the
circumstances
that
we
we
have
before
us.
L
I
have
been
in
a
very
similar
situation
to
this
as
appeal
and
raise
similar
issues
to
the
issues
that
members
are
raising
in
respect
to
the
history
and
inspector
came
down
on
me
very
hard
to
say
that
that's
not
relevant
I,
don't
know
why
you're
asking
that
I'm
not
saying
it's
not
relevant
for
you
to
ourselves,
so
that
to
understand
the
context
it's
helpful,
but
you
have
to
deal
with
what's
before
you
and
the
merits
the
planning
application
as
it
stands
rather
than
the
the
history,
and
it
is
clear-
and
we
do
know
that
this
is
an
abusive
planning
control,
that
this
is
a
breach
of
planning
control.
L
It
started
without
the
necessary
planning
permissions.
So
that's
it's
very
clear
that
that's
the
position
and
it's
also
very
clear-
and
the
officer's
report
is
clear
on
this-
that
this
is
a
proposal
which
is
country
to
many
of
our
local
planning
policies,
particularly
those
which
deal
with
with
green
space,
and
it
all
boils
down
to
whether
there
are,
as
a
report,
describes
very
special
circumstances
that
exists
and
that's
what
members
have
got
to
have
regard
to.
Thank.
A
Thank
you
any
anyone
else.
Thank
you
very
much,
sir,
for
your
time
and
we
now
move
on
to
the
offices.
If
there
are
any
questions
to
the
officer.
J
I
think
I
have
four
questions
chair.
The
first
is
just
what
happens
after
the
after
the
three
years,
so
we've
heard
that
a
suggestion
that
another
three
years
might
be
granted
and
then
another
three
years
after
that,
what
happens
if
the
gentleman
moves
off
and
wants
to
sell
the
land
he's
early,
he's
paying
16
000
pounds
for
it,
which
seems
probably
quite
a
lot
for
an
allotment.
J
B
So
the
with
the
three-year
permission
and
enforcement
would
be
able
to
take
enforcement
action
if
anyone
was
added
on
the
site
for
longer
than
three-year
permission,
unless
obviously,
like
Mark
said
earlier,
they
put
in
for
another
temporary
permission
and
in
terms
of
the
restoration
of
the
site.
So
the
permission
would
be
three
years
specific
to
that
family.
Only
so
it
wouldn't
be
if
or
it
wouldn't
be,
a
planning
permission
for
anyone
to
reside
on
that
site.
B
It
would
be
specific
to
the
applicant
and
his
family
so
after
the
applicant
had
left
whether
it's
within
the
three
years
or
or
less
it,
wouldn't
then
roll
on
to
anyone
else
and
in
terms
of
the
actual
site,
so
we're
planning
on
having
a
restoration
condition
which
would
include
the
removal
of
the
gravel
and
hard
standing.
So
that
would
remove
all
of
that
material
and
it
will
be
back
to
allotments.
J
B
So
it's
just
through
the
enforcement
notice
that
we'd
ensure
that
the
applicant
removed
all
the
materials
there
on
the
site.
J
So
I
have
a
live
planning
enforcement
case
in
my
ward,
where
the
council
is
not
able
to
serve
the
notice
because
they
don't
know
the
address
of
the
the
the
person
who
owns
the
land.
So
again,
how
are
you
going
to
enforce
that
action?
If
you
don't
know
where
the
person
has
gone
to.
L
Yes,
it's
a
fair
point:
counselor
yeah,
the
enforcement
notice
would
be
served
on
any
owners
of
the
land.
So
that's
how
we
would
intend
to
catch
them
as
it
were.
And,
yes,
we
have
hit
difficulties
in
the
past
and
it's
the
way
that
it
marks
a
glitch
in
the
system.
It's
very
difficult
to
deal
with
it.
But
if
it's
very
diffic,
if
it
is
difficult
to
track
down
an
owner
that
can
obviously
delay
and
frustrate
the
the
process,
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
we
don't
try.
J
And
so
once
we
sort
of
set
a
precedent
in
in
the
in
the
case
today,
if
we
Grant
planning
application
on
the
terms
given
what
would
stop
the
owner
saying
to
the
potential
buyer
coming
in
I'm,
going
to
say
the
land
but
I'll
tell
you
what,
if
you
put
your
kids
in
the
local
school,
then
you
can
then
apply
for
planning
application.
They'll
have
to
Grant
it
because
that's
how
they
gave
it
to
me.
L
Yeah,
we
just
have
to
judge
what
comes
for
us
on
the
planning
policies
we
have
in
place
at
that
particular
time.
If
there's,
if
there's
no
change
in
the
planning
policy
context
and
the
circumstances
of
a
different
family
are
the
same,
then
we
we
may
end
up
in
a
very
similar
in
a
very
similar
position.
J
Thank
you,
but
that
was
question.
One
airbnc
question
two:
normally
I'm
planning
applications
in
in
more
rural
areas
when
we're
dealing
with
planning
applications
for
things
like
Stables,
there
is
a
ratio
of
land
that's
needed
per
horse.
J
B
L
L
L
J
And
from
a
planning
Point,
presumably
we
could,
via
condition,
require
or
remove
any
any
existing
permissive
development
rights,
for
example
that
might
come
in
future
for
any
sort
of
Stables
or
Stables,
wouldn't
permitted
development,
but
structures
field,
shelters
for
horses,
for
example,
that
later
on
there
could
be
a
Classic
Q
argument.
J
Yes,
we
could
do
that.
Yeah
question
three
chair:
how
was
the
the
land
banded
for
council
tax?
My
understanding
is,
it
normally
goes
back
to
the
92
valuation
based
on
property
prices.
So
how
do
we
apply
council
tax
abandoning
to
Caravan
and
the
Torah.
B
I
think
that
would
be
a
question
for
council's
house
I.
Don't
think
we
can
answer
that
today
and
just
on
how
they're,
how
they're
calculating
that.
J
I
accept
it's
not
a
planning
argument,
but
the
reason
I
ask
you
just
because
some
of
the
supporting
documents
was
given
in
a
sense
of
The
Refuge
collections,
Etc
are
being
paid
for
so
I
think
we'd
probably
want
to
understand
in
future
as
well,
whether
that
banding
is
accurate
and
how
that
applies
in
terms
of
the
drain
on
the
council
Services.
My
final
question
is:
there
is
a
lot
in
this
pack
around
the
equality
Act
and,
in
fact,
really.
J
On
on
plans
panels
in
the
past,
and
we've
had
quite
emotional
cases
put
before
as
of
a
family
that
might
need
to
expand
the
dwelling
because
they
have
I
can
remember
one
which
was
a
disabled
child
and
they
needed
some
more
space
in
the
property
for
the
disabled
child,
which
of
course,
is
a
protected
characteristic.
J
The
planning
arguments
were
always
well.
We
judge
each
case
on
its
individual
merits,
but
we
have
to
look
at
the
application
based
on
planning
merits
and
not
based
on
the
circumstances
of
the
individual,
because
when
they
move
the
person
coming
in
might
have
a
different
circumstance.
So
so
are
we
being
asked
to
apply
a
significant
weight
to
a
protected
characteristic
for
one
protective
characteristic,
in
a
way
that
we
wouldn't
for
any
other
across
the
across
the
council
to
be
that
disability,
gender,
sex,
sexual
orientation,
Etc.
B
So
the
protects
the
characteristic
is
one
part
of
the
way
in
the
balance,
but
the
main
substantial
weight
which
we're
applying
within
the
report
is
the
very
special
circumstances
surrounding
the
children
in
this
case,
so
the
safety
of
the
children
and
the
education
for
children.
That's
where
the
very
special
circumstances
substantial
weight
is,
is
lying,
really
protected,
characteristics
and
equality
act
that
is
part
of
the
weight,
but
it's
not
the
full
extent
of
the
weight,
which
is
why
the
previous
application
on
the
site
adjacent
was
refused
and
wasn't
given
permission
so.
J
I'll
save
my
comments
for
comments
on
on
the
other
points,
so
if,
on
a
on
a
percentage,
then
of
the
waiting,
what
are
you
asking
us
to
apply
to
this
to
the
school
issue
versus
the
protected
characteristics
and
I?
Ask?
Because
if
this
is
a
appealed,
we
were
to
refuse
an
appealed
at
appeal,
what
what
waiting
will
be
put
there,
because
it
may
well
be,
for
example,
if
the
if
the
schooling
situation
is
is
answered
and
we're
just
left
with
a
protected
characteristic.
L
There
was
a
case
out
in
the
out
in
the
green
belt,
where
we
granted
a
a
larger
extension
beyond
the
30,
and
we
would
normally
Grant
so
that
they
could
provide
appropriate
accommodation
for
the
for
the
children
of
that
that
family,
who
had
a
particular
particular
needs
and
I,
can
also
recall
cases
where
we've
granted
planning
permission
for
extensions
to
houses.
Accepting
what
you
set
out
is
quite
prop
and
quite
right,
and
that's
that's
our
starting
position,
but
we've
been
presented
with
arguments
in
respect
to
the
particular
needs.
L
Maybe
moth,
often
not
as
the
child,
has
a
particular
disability
into
a
layer
that
child
to
stay
in
that
particular
home
and
have
that
stability
and
sustain
within
that
local
school
system.
We
have
granted
planning
permission
for
longer
longer
periods
of
well
for
for
extensions
that
we
wouldn't
have
otherwise
granted
so
I
think
it
is
a
case
of
each
case
on
its
own
merits.
With
regard
to,
if
you
a
lot
of
this
as
Lydia's
saying
from
an
officer
perspective,
we
applied
an
awful
lot
of
weight
on
the
best
interests
of
the
child.
L
The
other
thing
that
distinguished
that
appeal
was
that
and
we'd
have
to
have
regard
to
this-
is
that
that
family
on
that
appeal
also
had
a
permanent
base,
an
alternative
place
to
go
to,
so
that
was
that
was
a
distinction,
but
certainly
if
you
took
away
the
the
children
from
this
case,
that
was
significantly
reduce
the
argument
for
the
grant
of
for
the
grants
of
planning
permission,
because
I
don't
think
we
could
put
a
percentage
on
it,
but
it
would
significantly
weaken
the
case.
A
Counselor
before
I
bring
councilor
Anderson
in
I
use.
You
shown
interest
to
ask
a
question
earlier
on.
Are
you
just
okay,
yeah,
before
before
I
bring
councilor
Anderson
one
thing
that
was
raised
three
years
temporary?
If
it
gets
granted,
we
will
not
roll
it
on
to
anybody
else,
but
Mr
the
gentleman
who
has
applied
for
it.
But
what
let's
say
after
three
years,
if
we,
if
he
applies
for
a
planning
permission
again,
it
gets
granted.
What
does
he?
L
K
A
couple
of
things
one
is:
we
often
get
updates
at
our
training
on
the
current
thoughts.
What
are
the
current
thoughts
of
the
inspectorate
on
this
type
of
case
now?
What's
the
case
law,
you
know:
are
there
a
lot
of
cases
being
approved
now,
because,
if
I,
if
I
was
an
inspector
I'd
say
to
myself,
fine,
okay,
I
told
Leeds
city
council,
whenever
we
set
the
say
allocations
plan
up,
you
had
a
shortfall
of
species.
K
K
So
what's
the
likely
what
I'm
getting
at
is
in
three
years,
is
there
any
likelihood
that
we
will
have
identified
any
sites
in
the
city
for
this
other
than
the
ones
that
just
suddenly
appear
from
nowhere?
Because
it
would
appear
to
me
that
if
it's
Greenfield
or
Green
Space,
it
stands
little
or
no
chance
of
being
included
in
any
reply
forward
plans
so
that
you're
then
down
to
Brownfield
sites?
K
There
are
issues
with
some
of
the
Brownfield
sites
that
come
on
that
maybe
ex-industrial,
because
they're
then
not
close
enough
to
facilities
for
any
family
to
be
able
to.
So
what
I'm
getting
at
is.
What
is
the
current
position?
Is
an
inspector
or
have
any
inspectors
recently
approved
schemes
using
the
exception
that
we
are
that
officers
are
suggesting
we
give
due
to
today.
K
Is
there
any
evidence
that
that
has
changed,
and
the
other
thing
is
back
in
2005
when
we
took
power
there
was
a
list
of
sites
that
the
council
were
actively
considering
as
potential
locations,
That
Was
Then
Revisited
about
five
six
years
later.
Where
are
we
and
are
there
any
plans
for
alternative
sites
that
might
come
forward
in
the
future
in
this
location
that
are
are
on?
That
list
had
been
prepared
in
advance.
L
I'll
leave
the
second
part
of
that
for
for
Catherine
Thompson.
Now,
let's
I'll
have
a
go
at
answer.
It
and
Lydia
might
want
to
to
add
to
it.
I'm,
not
aware
of
certainly
within
our
patch
within
leads
of
well
within
the
eastern
half
within
of
recent
applications
for
for
travelers
pictures.
L
You
know
there
was
a
a
case
which
was
reported
in
the
Press,
releasing
the
planning
press
recently
where
a
council
got
very
heavily
criticized
for
refusing
an
application
and
questioning
the
actual
status
of
the
applicant,
whether
they're,
a
gypsy
or
or
a
traveler,
and
it
was
felt
the
inspector
felt
that
that
was
holy,
an
inappropriate
line
for
the
local
planning
authority
to
to
take.
L
But
ultimately,
what
a
planning
inspector
will
do
is
is
what
we
have
done
in
terms
of
presenting
the
report.
They'll
just
judge
it
against
the
planning
policies
that
existed
at
the
present
time.
I,
don't
think
they'll
necessarily
go
back
through
that
exercise
as
saying
well,
they
may
say:
well,
Leeds
doesn't
have
a
five-year
Supply,
but
I,
don't
think
they'll
go
back
and
say
and
they've
been
told
they
needed
it
in
the
past
and
they
still
failed.
I
think
they'll
just
deal
with
it
on
the
current
policy
context
and
have
regard
to
the
fact
that.
L
There
is
a
there
is
a
requirement
to
have
a
supply
of
of
travel
sites,
and
we
fall
well
short
of
that,
and
Catherine
will
be
able
to
explain
that
in
better
than
I
can.
C
Well,
I'll:
try
thank
you
yeah,
so
we
do
have
a
requirement
of
five
years
and
that's
set
out
under
core
strategy
policy
H7
and
the
site
allocation
plan.
C
The
site
allocation
plan
goes
so
far
in
identifying
new
pictures.
We've
got
expansion
at
cottonley
and
we've
got
kidaca
Street
in
the
city.
Center
kideka
street
is
impacted
by
proposals
for
hs2,
whether
that
comes
forward
or
not.
We
don't
know
so.
There's
uncertainty
there.
C
C
We
are
progressing
through
the
requirement
of
policy
hdr2
in
the
site,
locations
plan,
a
review
of
gypsy
and
traveler
sites,
and
that
process
has
started
through
the
local
Plan
update
2014..
So
we've
started
initial
scoping,
which
we
consulted
on
earlier
this
year.
C
C
So
yeah
I
can't
comment
on
the
I'm.
Seeing
the
next
question
is,
is
the
waiting
list,
but
we're
not
delivering
I,
haven't
been
able
to
deliver
the
number
of
pictures
that
have
been
identified
and
allocated
through
the
site
allocations
plan,
so
we
are
woefully
short,
I,
don't
know
if
I'll
answer
the
questions.
K
Wish
that
was
in
existence
or
potential
sites
that
when
we
were
in
power
we
didn't
want
to
take
forward,
but
is
that
list
still
in
existence?
I
mean
there's
nobody
from
housing
here
and
it
was.
It
was
housing
that
actually
produced
a
list
to
be
quite
Frank.
It
was
a.
It
was
a
housing
department
list
of
sites
that
they
felt
with
meat
need
in
various
parts
of
the
city.
It
was
controversial,
let's
be
quite
frankly,
it
was
controversial.
K
I
just
wondered
if
that
was
still,
because
if
there
isn't
the
likelihood,
where
are
this
family
going
to
go,
you
know
if
we're
not
going
to
have
something.
Where
are
they
going
to
go?
They've
got
to
go
somewhere.
K
A
D
And
yeah,
we
spoke
a
lot
about
the
very
special
personal
circumstances,
but
in
paragraph
50,
on
page
26
and
there's
a
suggestion
of
another
difference
between
the
previous
adjacent
proposal,
which
was
rejected
in
this
one.
And
it
states
that
there
are
some
differences
in
respect
of
the
characteristics
of
the
respective
sites.
That
will
have
some
material
bearing
on
the
environmental
effects
associated
with
the
development
and
I
was
just
wondering
if
you
could
expand
a
little
bit
on
what
those
differences
are.
B
So
I
think
the
differences
that
were
cited
were
that
the
original
plot
and
which
was
referenced
in
the
appeal.
It
was
more
Central
than
the
allotments,
and
this
one
is
further
into
the
corner
of
the
site,
which
is
just
a
few
rows
down
and
I.
Think
that
was
the
main
characteristics
in
terms
of
the
material
impact.
D
Sorry,
I
don't
quite
understand
so
in
terms
of
the
actual
position
of
the
whole
allotment
itself
being
on
the
outskirts.
Or
is
it
in
terms
of
where
the
caravan's
on
the
allotment
area
are.
B
Yeah
in
terms
of
the
location
of
the
allotment
site,
so
it
being
further
along
on
the
on
the
road
I
think
it's
on
the
corner
of
sandgate,
Terrace
and
Sungate
Grove,
maybe
I
think.
D
What
environmental
effects
are
made
worse
by
the
fact
that
the
allotments,
the
other
allotment,
was
more
Central
than
this
one.
L
D
So
the
report
states
that
there
are
differences
in
respect
to
the
characteristics
of
the
respective
sites
that
will
have
some
material
bearing
on
the
environmental
effects
associated
with
the
development,
but
I
don't
understand
how
the
obviously
you
know
the
sites
themselves
are
very
close.
Together.
We
saw
on
this
item
visit
earlier
today
that
you
can
see
it
from
the
site.
I,
don't
understand
how
the
fat
one
is
on
the
corner
and
one
is
located.
200
yards
slightly
down.
The
road
is
a
material
difference.
L
D
Yeah
very
fun
I'm,
not
particularly
convinced
by
that,
but
that's
why
I
understand
it.
So
just
another
quick
question,
so
we've
said
that
the
application
itself
is
is
specific
to
this
family.
So
if
another
family
were
to
move
on
to
the
site
during
these
three
years,
whose
responsibility
would
it
be
to
Monitor
and
report
that.
B
So
that
would
be
for
the
enforcement
team
to
ensure
that
the
family
that
are
living
on
the
plot
are
the
the
family,
which
are
the
permission,
is
specific
to
and
any
change
in
that
I'm
assuming
council
tax
would
also
be
an
indicator
of
that.
If,
if
that
changed
names
have
changed
on
council
tax,
we
do
have
some
ties
with
council
tax,
on
hmos
and
and
on
this
as
well.
B
L
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
we
enforcement
generally.
We
do
rely
on
local
people
to
draw
to
our
attention
any
breaches
of
planning
control,
but
we,
as
Lydia
says
we
can.
We
also
do
go
out
and
this
site
has
been
monitored
on
a
regular
basis
by
colleagues
and
enforcement,
as
has
the
the
other
site
on
sandgate
Terrace.
So
it's
a
com,
It's,
a
combination
of
of
the
two.
D
L
Lydia
just
drew
my
attention
to
an
appeal
decision,
also
that
I
think
this
probably
dates
from
2018,
but
it
is
an
application
that
did
come
before
this
plans
panel
at
that
time,
same
ward,
actually,
it's
exciting
hollinghurst
and
that
was
again
a
retrospective
application
for
for
a
traveler's
pitch,
which
was
set
up
on
a
piece
of
open
land,
diagonally
opposite
to
a
Terrace
of
properties.
We
refuse
planning
permission
on
number
of
grounds:
visual
impact
over
intensive
use
of
the
the
site
and
highway
safety
reasons
when
to
appeal.
L
It
was
allowed
on
appeal.
The
inspector
looking
at
the
appeal
summary
attached:
significant
weight
to
the
unmet,
need
and
provision
for
alternative
for
alternative
sites,
and
that
that
seems
from
the
summary
I'm
reading
to
be
the
compelling
point
that
led
inspect
to
to
allow
the
appeal.
J
A
But
can
we
now
move
on
to
the
comments?
Please
any
comments.
G
Thanks
chair
I,
just
think
with
applications
like
this.
If
we
to
consider
them
under
very
special
circumstances,
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
bit
more
input
from
the
applicant.
You
know
to
just
say
that
they've
made
themselves
homeless
and
then
we've
got
to
consider
it
on
that
basis.
I,
don't
think
it's
good
enough
really.
H
Yeah,
a
very
similar
point
to
council
sharp
I
did
try
to
bottom.
Some
of
these
questions
with
the
applicants
representative
and
all
I
was
really
getting
was
a
circular
argument
which
came
back
you
guys
ain't
got
enough
pictures.
What
else
can
we
do
on
the
children's
schooling
is
important,
which
we
all
accept.
Nevertheless,
there
are
issues
regarding
the
voluntary
moving
from
Cottonwood
Springs.
We
have
no
knowledge
whatsoever
of
that
and
my
attempt
to
actually
find
anything
about.
H
It
really
was
quite
frustrating
really
I
I
as
I
say,
I
was
just
getting
circular
answers,
but
not
really
substance
to
the
questions
I
was
asking.
I
did
get
one
the
interesting
point
when
I
said,
would
the
applicant
be
prepared
to
restore
the
grassland
to
the
side
of
the
paddock
to
allotments
and
he
seem
to
indicate
they
would.
But
of
course
we
haven't
got
that
just
on
the
report
and
I
might
suggest
to
me
that
and
I
know.
H
J
J
We
have
a
choice
today
to
make
on
the
planning
merits
put
before
us
and
crucially,
the
applicant
had
a
number
of
choices,
and
we've
heard
that
it
was
a
choice
to
leave
a
fixed
site
and
make
that
choice
for
the
family.
It
was
a
choice
to
move
on
to
the
site
in
kippax
before
planning
consent
was
given,
and
therefore
instigating
enforcement
action.
It
was
a
choice
to
send
the
children
to
the
school
in
question.
J
There
was
a
choice,
an
active
choice
we
had
made
not
to
put
the
older
children
in
mainstream
education
and
access
different
provision.
That
is
a
choice
that
could
also
be
made
for
the
younger
children.
J
So
when
I
think
about
any
subsequent
appeal
and
and
waiting
and
and
the
law
around
equality,
which
is
the
law,
so
we
must
divide
by
it.
Even
if
we
want
to
disagree
with
it,
although
there's
a
right
to
a
family
life
and
a
right
to
human
rights,
which
is
a
given-
and
we
do
agree
with
that
part,
there
got
to
be
an
element
of
choice.
Nobody's
saying
that
this
is
the
only
choice
available
to
fulfill
that
requirement
in
law.
There's
got
to
be
some
personal
responsibility
on
the
applicant.
J
So,
on
that
basis,
I'm
not
convinced
today
by
the
arguments
put
forward,
nor
indeed
really
by
by
a
need
to
defer
I.
Think
to
me,
it's
quite
quite
straightforward
that
we've
made
a
decision
previously
on
the
plot
next
door.
J
I'm,
not
convinced
that
this
is
wholly
different
to
that
one
and
and
unless
anybody
else
want
wishes
to
make
a
comment.
I
would
I've
put
forward
the
the
motion
at
least
be
refused
chair.
A
If,
before
I
take
your
motion,
Council
Stevenson
I'll
bring
guns
for
Jenkins.
Is
that
a
comment
console
Jenkins
or.
E
Yeah
so
I
think
it's
a
it's
a
difficult
issue
and
in
a
way,
I
would
prefer
to
defer
this
matter,
because
I
I
think
there's
lots
of
issues
that
haven't
been
taken
into
account
and
if
there's
an
issue
about
this
case
from
2018
about
unmet
need
I
think
that's
quite
a
significant
factor.
E
I'd
also
like
to
really
hear
from
Ellie
and
people
at
the
gate,
the
school
and
the
effect
upon
that
the
children
as
to
if
they
were
moved
from
that
school,
particularly
well,
particularly
the
the
primary
school
children,
but
also
that
I
think
we
have
to
you
know.
The
choice
has
been
taken
away
by
this
government,
not
allowing
sufficient
support
to
traveling
families.
I
think
they've
been
stigmatized
affected
badly
by
this
government,
not
allowing
legally
roadside
places,
and
so
I
think
we.
E
There
is
a
limited
choice
for
for
traveling
families
as
to
what's
available
to
them
and
I
think
they
live
a
very
insecure
life.
And
you
know
we've
been
trying
to
to
look
for
negotiated
stopping
places
even
there
for
28
days.
It's
quite
a
struggle,
so
I'd
also
like
to
see
if
we
could
find
a
reason
to
involve
Carrie
and
Gareth
from
the
travelings
team
to
also
get
their
view
on
on
the
situation.
So
I
I'd
prefer
to
defer
this
and
involve
more
people
in
the
discussion.
E
A
A
L
Yes,
thank
you,
chair
I,
just
need
to
clarify
with
Council
Stevenson
what
what
the
proposed
grounds
for
refusal
actually
are,
so
that
we're
just
clear
on
that
Julie
Caesar.
J
Choice
there
was
Choice
a
significant
way.
It
shouldn't
be
given
to
the
personal
circumstances,
because
it's
not
the
only
circumstance
available.
There
are
others
and
it's
the
applicant
has
chosen
to
be
in
the
situation.
So,
for
example,
there
are
School
places
that
could
be
made
available,
or
was
he
to
move
somewhere
else?
J
So
it's
it's
a
disagreement,
a
respectful
disagreement,
David
with
the
officer
report
around
the
way
it's
given
to
personal
circumstances
and
a
view
that,
as
we've
already
won
one
case
on
the
protected
characteristic
argument
on
the
plot
next
door,
then
why
should
we
differ
from
that
now
with
two
separate
points?.
A
Anyone
against
any
abstentions,
no
so
thus
lost,
and
then
we
had
counselor
shop.
Was
it
concert
Jenkins?
Sorry,
do
you
want
to
repeat
your
motion
again
and
then
we'll
take
someone
as
a
secondary
yeah.
E
I
would
prefer
to
defer
this
matter
for
further
investigation,
and
consideration
of
a
number
of
matters
regarding
the
unmet
need
the
issue
of
choice.
The
officers
from
different
Departments
of
the
council,
The
Travelers
team,
the
gate
and
the
school.
H
Next
year,
and
certainly
I
would
like
more
information
of
why
the
family
left
or
were
forced
away
from
cottery
Springs,
which
seemed
to
create
the
problem
in
in
home.
In
Council
terms,
it
would
have
been
deemed
as
making
yourself
intentionally
homeless.
So
there
must
be
some
good
and
compelling
reasons
which
I
was
unable
to
find
out
from
the
applicants.
Although
I
asked
the
question
several
times,
I
think
councilor
councilor
Ryan
Stevenson
made
a
very
good
point
regarding
horses
and
how
much
land
should
be
available.
H
I
know
the
policy
did
seem
a
bit
vague
on
that,
but
also
where
Animal
Welfare
is
a
is
something
that
we're
all
very
important
of
quite
important
and
concerned
about,
and
the
third
one
is
that
there
seem
to
be
an
indication
that
the
field
could
be
returned
to
allotment
on
on
news
part
and
it
seemed
to
say
that
they
would
be
prepared
to
enter
into
such
an
agreement.
Again.
We
can
only
do
that
if
it's
part
of
the
planning
application
and
for
those
additional
reasons,
I,
think
I'm
happy
to
to
defer
at
this
stage.
A
And
you're
you've
just
seconded
it
basically
yeah.
Okay.
Thank
you.
I
mean
it's
good
that
you
mentioned
about
the
horses
and
all
of
us
are
into
animal
lovers,
so
it
was.
It
was
good.
The
council
Stevenson
brought
that
point.
So
can
we
add
that
on
Twitter
as
well,
and
also
the
allotments
that
you
talked
about
earlier
on
about
the
year,
the
grass
Place
space
at
the
front?
A
So
all
these
things,
and
if,
if
David
cons
sum
it
up
again
and
then
we'll
take
the
vote
and
I'm
sure,
it'll
it'll
do
well.
L
It's
like
yeah
yeah,
so
just
working
from
the
bottom
of
my
list
as
it
were
so
picking
up
a
council
McKenna's
points,
more
information
in
respect
of
the
return
of
the
land
to
lotments
What
lands
affected,
how
we
would
actually
con
control
that
more
advice
in
respective
number
of
horses
and
the
land
that
should
be
available
for
them
to
graze.
L
Moving
on
to
councilor
Jenkins
points
about
the
advice
from
The
Travelers
teams,
the
gates,
the
school
and
the
ward
members
in
respect
to
their
input
into
it.
More
information
in
respective
planning
permissions
refuse
the
consequences
for
for
the
children,
particularly
of
primary
school
age.
More
information
respective
unmet
need
and
then
for
I.