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From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Infrastructure, Investment & Inclusive Growth Scrutiny Board - 2nd November 22
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A
Thank
you
and
I'm
councilor
portrait
as
well.
Chair
of
the
board
and
I
represent
Middleton
and
Bell
out.
So
moving
on
to
the
normal
housekeeping
agenda
items
and
gender
item,
one
appeals:
there
are
no
appeals
agenda
item,
two
exclusion
of
the
public.
There
are
no
items
for
which
this
is
applicable,
late
items
or
no
late
items.
Item
4,
Declaration
of
interest
and
I
understand
that
a
couple
of
members
have
got
non-pecuniary
interested
eclair,
starting
with
Council
of
Linux.
A
Thank
you,
councilor
Buckley,
so
generation
five
apologies.
We
write:
apologies
for
Andrew
McGuinness
from
CPT.
It
was
a
regional
manager
from
councilor
Kijiji
from
Council
Larry
for
saying,
as
I
indicated
earlier,
and
welcome
again,
Zara
and
also
councilor
Leo
has
been
deflected
by
last
minute:
caring
duties.
Okay,
that
takes
us
on
to
agenda
item
six
which
minutes
in
my
usual
fashion,
I'll
go
through
them
Page
by
Page,
starting
on
page
five.
A
A
However,
this
year
I
felt
that
that
was
too
much
of
a
straight
jacket
in
the
the
landscape
had
changed
so
significantly
that
we
needed
to
adopt
a
slightly
more
updated
approach,
because,
obviously,
without
the
Advent
of
an
elected
mayor,
the
bus
service
improvement
plan,
the
development
of
Partnerships,
new
funding
streams
and
I
suppose
last
but
very
certainly,
not
least,
the
massive
impact
of
covid,
which
is
still
with
us.
However,
I'm
sure
that
members
will
raise
some
of
their
normal
points
that
arise
in
our
discussions
regarding
connectivity,
reliability,
punctuality,
affordability,
information,
Etc.
L
A
N
A
N
Think
thank
you
chair
as
Sam
as
we
we've
was
set
out
in
in
the
report
that
you
got
in
front
of
you.
The
sort
of
current
position
on
a
variety
of
different
aspects,
so
I'll
I'll
very
briefly
talk
to
each
one
but
but,
as
as
chair
said,
I'll
I'll
take
the
reporters
read
but
I
think
the
first
thing
to
say
really
is:
is
around
the
the
sort
of
current
position
that
the
bus
service
in
in
Leeds
in
West,
Yorkshire
sort
of
finds
itself
in
I.
N
Think
the
chair
referenced
the
the
pandemic
in
in
an
introductory
remarks
and
and
I
think
it's.
It
has
had
a
significant
impact
on
on
bus
patronage,
both
in
terms
of
the
the
various
different
times
and
restrictions
applied,
but
the
longer
term
impacts
on
travel,
behaviors
have
have
changed
and
and
and
our
our
significant
factor
for
us
to
to
consider
and
how
the
the
bus
service
both
recovers
from
the
pandemic,
but
also
evolves
and
I.
N
Think
that's
that's
an
important
sort
of
reflection
that
we
we're
in
that
in
in
that
sort
of
stage
at
the
moment,
I
think
accompanying
the
pandemic.
There
are
a
number
of
sort
of
Economic
and
employment
Market
issues
which
are
quite
prevalent
and
impacting
heavily
on
the
bus
service,
as
they
are
on
other
parts
of
the
economy
as
well.
N
I
think
the
the
other
other
thing
that
you
know
we
we
need
to
be
mindful
of
is
is
the
impact
of
changing
travel
behaviors
and
the
numbers
of
people
traveling
on
the
bus
are
around
about
80
percent
of
what
we
would
have
been
seeing
in
2019
in
an
equivalent
month.
So
so
we
we
do
have
fewer
plus
passengers
and
therefore
fewer
less
Revenue
going
through
the
system
as
well.
I
think
the
the
other
thing
that
the
bus
industry
is
not
communed
to
is
the
impact
of
of
inflation.
N
N
I,
think
the
other
thing
to
to
to
point
out
to
to
members
is
that
bus
services
throughout
the
pandemic
were
supported
by
a
combination
of
central
government
and
local
government
funding
to
to
basically
maintain
service
levels
to
to
to
keep
doing
the
the
lockdowns
for
key
workers.
Traveling
and
that's
sort
of
dependency
on
additional
funding
is
still
with
us
and
and
government
have
now
at
a
very
late
hour
extended.
The
the
current
range
was
what
it
calls
bus
recovery
Grant
until
the
end
of
the
financial
year.
N
We
did
an
exercise
required
by
the
Department
of
Transport
during
the
summer
with
the
bus
operators,
which
identified
that
a
a
list
of
services
equivalent
to
around
about
11
of
the
bus
mileage
in
West
Yorkshire
were
not
viable
in,
in
the
sense
that
if
there
was
no
funding
to
to
support
them,
then
the
their
cost
of
service
was
was
significantly
exceeding
their
revenues
that
the
services
were
generating.
So
we
we
we're
not
in
that
place
at
the
moment.
N
A
father,
a
fairly
Bleak
picture,
I
guess
but
I
think
there
are
some
real
positives
in
in
where
we
are
as
well.
The
the
region
was
successful
in
in
obtaining
funding
through
the
government's
bus
service
improvement
plan
program
and
this
chart
of
17
million
pounds
worth
of
Revenue
funding,
which
sits
alongside
the
the
the
Region's
allocation
under
the
city
region
transport
settlement
fund
for
for
Capital
schemes.
N
So
we
have
both
70
million
pounds
of
Revenue
funding
over
three
years
to
to
deploy
to
help
us
sort
of
build
the
bus
service
out
of
the
the
impacts
of
of
the
pandemic
and
then
particular
to
look
at
how
we
can
evolve.
The
bus,
Network
and
we've
already
made
a
start
with
that
with
the
introduction
of
the
MERS
fires
initiative,
which
which
came
at
the
beginning
of
September,
which
has
both
simplified
the
fares
and
and
and
reduce
the
fair
for
a
lot
of
passengers.
N
N
We
can
take
as
well
as
reflecting
upon
the
the
other
challenges,
alongside
that
through
the
summer
I'm
sure
you'll
have
seen
a
sort
of
effect,
extensive
public
consultation
exercise
and
engagement
exercise
under
the
title.
The
mayor's
big
book
bus
chat
to
capture
what
people's
current
feelings
about
those
services
and
what
they
what
they
want
to
see
rising
out
of
that,
and
we
will
be
sharing
the
outcome
of
that
with
with
the
transport
committee
at
the
combined
Authority
next
month.
N
So
with
the
analysis
of
that
that
is
still
ongoing,
but
obviously
that
can
determine
and
drive
how
we
move
things
further
forward.
We've
also
included
in
the
some
information
on
our
regular
what
we
call
a
Tracker
survey
in
terms
of
satisfaction
with
various
different
elements
of
Transport
I'm.
So
conscious
of
having
been
to
this
committee
over
the
last
few
years
that
the
the
longer
term,
what
we
to
bus
reform
as
as
is,
is
see
that
the
members
have
talked
about
I.
N
Think
we
talked
at
the
last
meeting
of
this
subcommittee
that
the
combined
Authority
was
taking
the
first
steps
towards
assessing
whether
or
not
bus
franchising
as
a
longer
term
solution,
and
that
assessment
is
now
in
progress.
We've,
commissioned
advisors
to
to
start
doing
the
work
to
be
able
to
deliver
an
assessment
of
the
the
business
case,
essentially
for
for
bus
franchising
next
year,
ahead
of
a
decision
and
in
the
pack,
you've
got
the
sort
of
road
map
of
the
various
different
steps
that
we
need
to
take.
N
A
P
Just
to
recognize
all
the
work
that's
been
going
on
and
the
frustration
of
how
the
pandemic,
but
and
also
other
issues,
have
kind
of
curtailed
and
frustrated
attempts
to
make
leads
a
place
where
you
don't
need
a
car,
and
that
there
is.
There
is
many
positives
to
the
bus
service
in
in
Leeds
and
there's
been
many
Step
forwards
in
the
last
year,
especially
around
the
fairs
and
and
those
and
and
and
that
has
gone
down
well
with
the
public
and
there's
so
I.
G
So,
as
Dave
said,
we
were
very
pleased
in
terms
of
the
settlement
we've
got
through.
The
crsts
you'll
have
seen
a
list
of
bus
priority
that
is
associated
with
that
funding
that
builds
on
what
we've
delivered
really
through
the
the
elliptic
program.
An
extension
of
that
we
recognize
obviously,
that
it's
a
balancing
act
between
ensuring
that
the
highway
operates
in
all
of
the
different
elements
of
that
and
providing
that
priority
for
buses.
But
we'll
continue
to
to
work.
You
know
across
the
piece
to
to
deliver
Improvement
and
encourage
people
to
use
them.
A
Thanks
Kate
and
in
recognition
of
all
the
colleagues
at
the
top
table,
giving
up
their
their
time
I'm
just
going
to
go
briefly
around
the
other
attendees
before
bringing
board
members
in
with
their
questions
and
comments,
so
I've
started
Darren
and
Andy
and
for
the
avoidance
of
any
doubt,
our
unite.
Colleagues
are
here
because
they
made
a
valuable
contribution
to
the
original
report
and
I
think
it
was
was
quite
reasonable
to
ask
them
along
to
this
follow-up
session,
so
Andy
Darren
if
you've
got
any
brief
comments
to
add.
Q
Thanks,
obviously,
throughout
the
last
two
or
three
years,
certainly
from
a
trade
Union
perspective,
our
members
of
of
found
it
extremely
difficult,
as
you
know,
as
everybody
else
has
really
and
as
we've
we've
we've,
we
move
into
kind
of
unprecedented
times
in
relation
to
the
economy,
bus
drivers
and
our
members
of
a
a
kind
of
working
as
best
they
can
to
to
to
provide
a
service.
That
is
what
the
public
would
would
want.
Q
Naturally,
we
have
our.
We
have
our
disagreements.
My
colleagues
will
be
able
to,
and
Kim
will
kind
of,
be
Testament
to
that,
but
but
kind
of.
Ultimately,
it's
we
are
pulling
in
the
same
direction,
the
majority
of
the
time
and
that's
to
have
a
successful
service
that
that
benefits.
The
communities
in
and
around
Leeds
and
and
West
Yorkshire,
and
you
know
we'll
work
with
whoever
we
need
to
work
with
in
order
to
make
that
happen
as
best
as
best
as
it
can
being
brutally
honest.
Q
That's
not
to
say
that
we
were
of
our
fallouts,
because
that's
the
nature
of
the
beast
in
that
our
members
always
want
more
pair
than
sometimes
the
providers
are
willing
to
to
give.
But
you
know
we
we
ultimately
work
through
that
and,
first
and
foremost,
I
think
our
members
are
dedicated
to
providing
the
best
bus
service
for
West
Yorkshire
and
the
the
community
still
leads
that
they
that
they
can.
R
That
just
someone
to
pick
up
on
what's
mentioned
at
the
minister,
is
that
somebody
mentioned
there's
a
shortage
of
staff
and
drivers
in
Leeds.
No,
there
isn't
a
shortage
of
drivers
in
Leeds.
What
there
is
is,
as
a
good
colleague
of
mine,
says
the
shortage
of
good
paid
jobs
in
Leeds
for
drivers,
and
that's
why
the
bus
drivers
are
doing
other
jobs
and
not
driving
buses,
because
they
can
get
paid
elsewhere.
L
Yeah
I
think
thank
you,
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
it.
It's
certainly
one
of
the
most
challenging
times
that
the
bus
industry
is
faced
in
in
recent
times,
the
driver
or
the
national
driver
shortage
and
actually
the
labor
market
shortage
as
a
whole
does
pose
us
challenges
and
we're
certainly
having
to
react
to
that
in
ways
that
we've
not
experienced
before
we
are
trying
as
much
as
we
can
to
work
in
Partnership
and
deliver
a
strong
and
reliable
service
for
the
the
customers
of
West
Yorkshire.
M
Thank
you
chair.
Yes,
just
I,
don't
want
to
to
duplicate.
What's
already
been
said,
but
just
picking
up
on
on
Dave's
comment
about
the
recovery
position.
Yes,
the
position
is
around
80
percent
of
pre-covered,
but
it
is
remarkably
or
noticeably
different
by
different
sectors
of
the
market
and
it's
important
to
remember
or
to
recognize
that
markets
like
entertainment,
going
out
for
for
evenings
children's
markets.
M
But
we
are
coming
back
to
the
same
issue
hampered
by
resource
availability
and
and
I
believe
we
could
get
much
higher
than
80,
probably
90.
If
we
were
able
to
run
a
good
quality
service,
which
I
would
put
my
hands
up
openly
and
say
it's
the
worst
quality
of
service.
In
my
40-year
history,
we
are
currently
delivering
because
of
Labor
availability.
Now
I
take
Andy's
point
about
it's,
not
a
lack
of
drivers.
It's
like
a
well-paid
drivers.
Of
course
it
is.
M
M
M
M
A
E
E
Our
hardest
area
to
recruit
is
is
Harrogate,
not
least
because
of
the
the
local
economy
there,
but
we
are
in
a
position
at
the
moment.
Fortunately,
where
we've
got
reasonable
coverage
at
all
the
Depots,
so
we're
able
to
move
some
colleagues
around.
We
can
see
some
light
at
the
end
of
the
tunnel
in
terms
of
the
the
driver's
shot.
E
Certainly
it's
a
lot
it's
a
lot
better
than
it
was
probably
seven
or
eight
months
ago
and
I
think
we
were
at
it's
our
worst
in
there
and
I.
Think
I
should
perhaps
spend
the
rest
of
my
time.
Speaking
saying
thanks
to
a
few
people.
One
is
our
colleagues
who
have
obviously
had
to
take
the
front
of
the
the
the
the
front
line:
impact
of
of
driver
shortages.
E
There's
a
lot
of
drivers
who
have
worked
good
over
time
to
help
us
keep
things
going,
often
taking
the
brunt
of
the
impact
of
cancellations
and
we're
yeah,
definitely
Keen
to
to
get
to
a
position
where
that
burden's
taken
off
them.
Also,
thank
you
to
to
customers
and
all
the
stakeholders
for
for
bearing
with
us
in
that
that
position
and
CSA
we
are.
E
There's
a
lot
of
good
happening
there,
perhaps
I
creating
the
points
earlier.
We
we've
fallen
out
over
a
few
things
on
the
way
and
there's
a
few
things
we
we
didn't
support,
but
we
sat
around
the
table.
We
had
a
strong
voice,
we
discussed
them
agreed
them
and
we
accepted
the
position.
Clearly,
we
don't
always
get
what
we
want,
but
actually
we've
got
a
lot
of
good
out
of
this,
and
at
least
the
end
of
the
day.
E
We
understand
the
context
of
why
other
decisions
have
taken
place
and
that
certainly
does
appear
to
be
delivering
some.
Some
good
benefits
for
the
customer
in
terms
of
some
faster
Journeys
and
more
reliability
in
that
which,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
when
we
talk
to
our
customers,
the
number
one
thing
they
say
is
a
reliable
bus
service.
So
all
that
work
has
gone
in
to
help
that.
So
thank
you
for
that.
One.
A
Thank
you,
I'm
conscious,
we've
already
been
going
half
an
hour
and
Peter
I
don't
want
to
exclude
you
as
someone
at
the
top
table,
but
obviously
we
found
we
found
a
contribution
from
waika.
That's
not
to
preclude
your
coming
in
on
any
of
the
comments
and
the
questions
which
board
members
will
be
making.
So
to
start,
the
discussion
I'll
look
to
my
left
into
councilor,
Lennox,
so
I
know
he's,
got
some
questions
to
pose
to
and
then
I'll
go
to.
Counselor
booklet
and
anyone
else
who
signifies
I
can
come
in.
H
Thank
you
right.
I've
got
lots
of
notes
written
down
here.
Thank
you
very
much
to
unite
colleagues
for
for
coming.
I.
Think
everyone
agrees
that,
during
the
pandemic,
your
guys
are
on
the
very,
very,
very
front
line
and
keeping
keeping
the
region
and
everything
keeping
the
show
on
the
road
for
a
lot
of
things
happening
so
support
for
your
members
and
what
they
are
seeking
to
get
addressed
with
their
employment.
H
So
I'm
gonna
frame
frame
a
question
as
a
as
a
sort
of
reference
to
a
bus
service
in
the
area
that
I
represent,
but
I
think
it's
something
that
will
be
recognized
by
members
across
across
the
board
and
we
had
two
Services
canceled,
the
x26
and
the
x27
which
take
people.
Three
weeks
leads
out
to
the
employment
and
Leisure
areas
up
at
the
springs
and
thought
partly
the
M1
we've
we've
been.
H
We
were
told
about
it
with
very
short
notice,
from
what
we
can
tell
there's
been
no
Community
consultation
or
or
or
work
with
any
anyone
in
in
East
leads
about
about
whether
This
was
going
to
significantly
impact
people's
commuting
people's
Leisure
opportunities,
people's
employment
opportunities
for
not
just
with
the
office
Park,
but
also
the
fact
that
thought
Park
obviously
has
has
retail
and
and
Leisure
employment
opportunities
as
well
plus
new
housing.
That's
been
built
there
and
there
hasn't
been
any
engagement
with
communities.
H
H
Just
doesn't
make
sense
to
me
now.
We've
had
a
response
from
first
which
has
spoken
about
the
impacts
of
the
pandemic
and
spoken
about
the
downturn
and
demand
and
the
lower
numbers
on
those
services.
But,
as
we've
heard,
there
are
lower
numbers
on
all
services.
Still
there
is
80
low
and
lower
passenger
numbers
on
our
services.
H
It's
also.
It
also
identifies
those
routes
as
being
primarily
commuter
routes.
Yes,
they
are
commuter.
Roots
people
are
working
there.
We
want
people
to
be
to
be
taking
public
transport
to
work
rather
than
than
than
driving
in
private
cars,
so
I'm
just
I'm
just
confused
about
about
how
we
can
go
about
reinstating
or
improving
routes
when
we're
blaming
stuff
that
we
know
is
a
is
a
wide
spread
Trend
about
passenger
numbers.
H
It
seems
that
that
the
the
answer
is
first
can
decide
or
other
providers
can
decide
purely
based
on
economic
gain
for
the
company
to
cancel
things
that
are
lifelines
and
very
important
to
people
in
our
communities.
Now
first
made
30
million
pounds
of
profit
in
2020
and
that's
in
the
pandemic
year
in
2021,
they
made
45
million
pounds
worth
of
profit,
and
if
that
is
not
being
used,
that
profit
is
not
being
used
to
sustain
and
improve
the
service,
then
what
is
it
being
used
for.
M
Thank
you,
councilor
Lennox
I
mean
certainly
the
there
were
a
small
number
routes
canceled
at
the
time
that
I've
mentioned
when
brg,
we
didn't
know
whether
it
was
going
to
be
extended
or
not,
and
it
was
extended
and
the
X6
26
and
27
was
part,
was
a
casualty
of
that.
And
and
whilst
we
talk
about
the
80,
there
were
some
routes
which
were
way
below
that
and
the
x26
and
x27
in
terms
of
its
recovery
was
was
much
lower.
M
We
had
to
make
painful
decisions,
we
did
do
what
we
are
required
to
do
and
and
liaise
with
the
combined
Authority
about
our
proposals,
but
it
was
probably
not
a
sufficient
time
to
consult
as
much
as
we
would
have
wanted
because
of
all
this
uncertainty
regarding
funding
I
think
it's
probably
unfair.
To
quote
the
the
national
profit
of,
certainly
within
West
Yorkshire.
During
the
pandemic,
we
didn't
make
any
money
and
certainly
at
the
moment,
we're
making
insufficient
margins
to
be
be
able
to
reinvest
in
West
Yorkshire.
M
M
As
far
as
the
the
x26
and
27
is
concerned,
we
did
divert
some
Journeys
on
the
Route
19
at
peak
times
to
try
to
offset
some
of
the
negative
reductions,
although
it
would
never
be
a
replacement
for,
and
there
are
conversations
going
on
between
the
developers
up
at
Springs
and
thought
Park
to
with
us
and
other
operators
to
see
whether
or
not
they
can
secure
the
return
of
the
x26
and
x27.
But
those
conversations
are
ongoing.
H
Thank
you
and,
as
you
said,
the
conversations
are
ongoing,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that
these
Services
can
be
reinstated,
but
but
passing
on
the
the
the
responsibility
for
funding
and
maintaining
those
services
to
the
organizations
that
are
tenants
in
the
springs
and
in
thought
Park
and
then
to
their
employers
to
the
customers
at
the
at
those
sites
and
then
to
the
people
through
fares
is
not
the
only
way
that
this
should
be
done.
So
we'll
continue
to
talk
about
it.
A
Before
bringing
other
colleagues
in
can
I
just
pursue
one
of
the
points
that
you've
made
Paul
about
about
profits,
because
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
our
perception
over
the
years
is
that
West
Yorkshire
is
being
used
as
something
as
a
cash
cow
by
first
now
times
have
changed,
as
you
say.
Quite
rightly,
we've
moved
away
from
periods
where
the
profit
margins
was.
However,
you
calculated
them
with
somewhere
in
the
region
of
10
to
15
what
sort
of
profit
margins
and
I
know.
M
Yeah,
thank
you.
Chair
I
mean
I,
think
we
are
probably
straying
into
slightly
dangerous
territory,
but
in
terms
of
the
general
generally
regarded
returns
expected
of
the
industry
and
operators
within
the
industry
to
in
order
to
be
able
to
reinvest,
they
are
in
the
order
of
10
to
15,
as
you
say,
but
at
this
present
body
time
we
have
maintained
some
element
of
investment
when
our
margins
have
been
well
below
that
so
currently,
within
the
current
year,
we
will
be
expect
to
make
a
profit,
but
not
of
that
level.
M
C
C
I
looked
it
up
actually
and
it's
five
years
since
councilor
Blake
as
she
was
then
made
this
agreement
that
we'd
have
the
the
whole
City
altered
in
favor
of
bus
lines
and
bus,
Gates
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
In
return
for
the
delivery
of
the
284
eco-friendly
Euro,
six
buses
and
I
just
wanted
to
to
be
clear
because
I've
and
this
is
and
I'm
not
blaming
the
bus
company
per
se
for
necessarily
for
having
not
fulfilled
the
whole
figure.
But
I
wanted
to
get
clear
how
it
worked.
C
A
Okay,
I
mean
just
to
amplify
the
point
the
councilor
Buckley's
made
I.
Think
two
years
ago
the
board
was
told
in
one
of
its
update
meetings
that
there
was
still
this
outstanding
number
of
buses,
but
that
they
were
going
to
be
provided.
One
year
ago
we
were
told
there
was
still
this
outstanding
number
of
buses,
the
95,
but
they
would
be
delivered
by
the
end
of
the
financial
year.
2122
have
any
other
materialized,
and
if
not,
why
not?.
M
Right
in
terms
of
the
the
the
question
which
comes
above
the
hours
at
the
starting
you've,
just
re
reiterated
in
terms
of
what
the
vehicles
which
are
either
in
place
or
on
order,
will
would
leave
a
balance
of
21
Vehicles.
So
there
are
Vehicles
committed
as
part
of
the
zebra
program
for
which
orders
have
been
placed.
M
There
have
been
additional
Vehicles
which
have
have
gone
in
on
the
Bradford
Corridor,
for
which
most
of
the
route
is
in
Leeds
and
therefore
they
are
accounted,
and
so
once
the
zebra
order
is
fulfilled
in
23,
then
we
will
have
a
deficiency
of
21
vehicles
and
there
is,
as
I've
said
at
each
scrutiny
panel
committee
meeting.
There
is
a
commitment
to
maintain
and
deliver
their
284.
M
M
Well,
no,
we,
we
are
a
a
business
which
has
to
provide
a
razor
Capital
request
each
year
of
our
group
and
each
year,
that's
what
we
were
doing
so
each
year
an
order
is
placed
to
meet
the
commitment
to
284
and
that's
what
we
were
doing
pre-pandemic,
so
no
master
order
orders
based
each
year,
which
is
what
we've
continued
to
do
and
will
continue
to
do
for
the
balancing
21
vehicles
over
the
next
couple
of
years.
But
the
commitment
is
absolutely
remains
in
place.
M
M
Now,
clearly
the
move
towards
electric
vehicles
or
hydrogen
Vehicles
impose
a
significant
premium
upon
that,
and
we
at,
like
other
operators,
I'm
sure,
have
given
a
commitment
that
no
new
diesel
orders
will
be
replaced
Beyond
this
current
year,
and
so
therefore,
all
future
orders
would
be
electric
vehicles
or
hydrogen
Vehicles,
which
therefore
be
much
much
more
expensive.
Probably
by
about
another
100
150
000
pound.
M
They
in
our
case
we
buy
the
vehicles,
we
don't
lease
them.
I
think
different
companies
do
different
things
we
have
done
in
the
past
and
there's
always
a
an
argument
one
with
another,
but
still
need
to
answer
your
question.
We
we
buy
them
and
the
the
question.
Would
you
ask
me
about
change
of
ownership,
which
of
course,
is
very,
very
relevant,
I'm
sure
in
a
bus
reform,
conversation
I
think
I'm
probably
going
to
have
to
have
to
Dave
to
to
answer.
N
One
we've,
we've
sort
of
anecdotally
called
a
sort
of
full
fat
version
would
be
that
the
that
the
public
sector,
the
combined
Authority
in
this
instance,
would
own
Depots
and
and
buses
and
then
provide
that
to
a
a
Contracting
bus
operator
to
our
several
bus
operators
to
to
to
work.
At
the
other
end
of
that
scale.
N
The
other
thing,
I'll,
just
sort
of
reiterate
around
the
284
buses,
is
that
they
there
are
they're
not
funded
through
the
the
Leeds
public
transport
investment
program
funding.
They
are
the
bus
companies
contribution
to
the
investment
that
has
the
public
investment
that
has
been
made
and
in
that
scheme,
and
and
also
they,
the
default
Arrangement
that
government
is
operating
for
zero
emission
buses.
N
Is
that
the
bus
company
effectively
and
I'm
oversimplifying
this
buys
the
bus
and
they
there's
a
grant
that
actually
tops
up
the
difference
between
what
a
diesel
bus
would
be
and
what
an
electric
bus
would
be?
And
so
that's
how
the
zebra
mechanism
works
and
that's
how
they
the
predecessors
that
worked
as
well.
So
this
that
I
think
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
the
bus
Remains,
the
asset
of
the
bus
company.
C
Yeah
just
to
come
back
briefly
on
this,
just
I'm
even
more
confused
now
about
I
I
thought
it
was
95
and
it's
Paul's
now
said
it's
21.,
so
did
I
hear
correctly
that
the
other
74
are
on
order.
That
was
my
first
question
and
secondly,
can
we
have
an
assurance
that
from
now
on,
there'll
be
no
buses
bought
from
China,
okay.
A
Now
Paul
you've
just
mentioned
a
figure
of
32
and
you'll
understand
why
I'm
slightly
confused
in
the
disparity
between
those
two
figures
and
perhaps
I've
just
been
obtuse,
but
it
would
be
useful
if
you
could
indicate
the
disparity
between
this
figure
in
this
paragraph
and
the
32
you've
mentioned,
and
if
the
figure
is
56
million
you
go
to
the
cost
of
a
bus.
If
I
remember
a
few
minutes
ago,
it's
been
250
000
pounds
and
250
000
pounds
into
56
million
comes
out
at
224-ish.
M
Go
first
but
I
know
Dave
is,
is
Keen
to
to
to
respond.
I
mean
that
there
are
I
was
the
figures.
I
was
quoting
are
on
behalf
of
first
clearly.
The
figures
in
the
report
are
all
operators
and
I'm
sure
Dave
have
can
give
you
a
breakdown
of
how
that
11
has
been
calculated
and
the
figure
I
gave
of
200
250
000
is
for
a
diesel
vehicle
and
and
obviously,
rather
than
an
electric
vehicle,
but
I'm
sure
Dave
clarified
much
greater
than
I.
Do.
N
N
The
final
point
is:
who
else
the
the
discussion
had
around
the
the
buses
built
overseas
in
China?
One
of
the
sort
of
conditions
that
the
government
require
is
that
full
use
of
their
Market
availability
of
electric
buses
across
across
the
world
is
is
taken
so
to
a
certain
extent.
You
know
we.
We
are
using
Government
funding
and
government
funding
rules
in
terms
of
how
we
deploy
the
zebra
funding
as
well.
K
How
do
you,
specifically
as
a
private
company
plan,
to
grow
and
make
a
profit,
because
it
seems
like
we're
in
a
bit
of
a
quandary,
which
is
that
you
can
only
make
Services
more
reliable
and
expand
Services
if
you
solve
for
driver
recruitment
issue,
but
you
can
only
solve
a
driver
recruitment
issue
if
you
pay
the
drivers
a
competitive
rate.
Surely
the
way
to
fund
that
is
through
growth
in
use?
K
There
are
lots
of
people
who
can't
drive
or
actively
don't
want
to
and
I
think
that's
a
growing
market
and
I
put
myself
in
that
in
that
bracket.
Many
of
them
live
in
the
meanwood
area,
which
is
covered
by
my
ward
and
by
more
Town
Wards.
Two
of
their
councilors
are
here
today,
but
they've
given
up
on,
for
example,
the
51
52
first
bus
service,
which
is
a
subject
of
continuous
and
Furious
complaints.
K
I'd
love
for
you
to
meet
those
residents
and
I
can
arrange
that,
for
you,
meanwood
is
an
area
where
lots
and
lots
of
people,
including
myself,
don't
drive
and
would
love
to
use
a
bus
and
I
I
really
do
think.
There's
a
market
there.
The
same
goes
for
early
morning
commuters
from
cookridge
for
example.
So
what
is
your
plan
for
growth?
M
There's
no
enormous
challenge
in
that
question,
which
I
I
don't
think
I
would
do
justice
in
answering
it
fully
fully
today,
but
it
isn't
just
around
as
as,
hopefully
my
unite.
Colleagues
would
verify
it
isn't
just
around
rate
of
pay.
The
reasons
why
I
would
contend
and
again
I
don't
want
to
get
into
an
argument
with
our
unite
colleagues
across
the
table.
M
Here
is
it's
a
it's
the
reason
why
people
leave
an
artist
satisfied
with
industry
partly's
pay,
but
it's
primarily
it's
around
the
work
which
they
are
having
to
do
in
terms
of
the
shifts
and
the
type
of
environment
which
they
are
operating
and,
of
course,
it's
compounded
by
the
fact,
as
as
I
think
Paul
mentioned
earlier
on
that
they
are
the
in
the
front
line
of
receiving
all
the
negativity
around.
The
cancellations
which
you
refer
to,
which
is
in
itself,
is
a
deterrent
and
encouraging
people
to
staff
to
to
choose
other
occupations.
M
So
it
is
partly
around
pay,
but
is
also
around
the
nature
of
shifts,
and
we
are.
We
are
trying
to
work
with
unite
to
explore
alternative
shift
patterns.
We
are
introducing
part-time
labor
to
try
to
ease
the
issue,
but
fundamentally
I
I
I
totally
agree
with
you
about
in
terms
of
what
is
our
solution.
M
Our
solution
to
achieve
a
sustainable
business
and
profit
and
a
profit
is
by
running
a
reliable
service,
because
I
think
passengers
are
there
to
be
won
over
and
we,
therefore
we
do
have
to
resolve
the
driver
shortage
issue,
but
I
would
contend.
It
is
not
necessarily
as
simple
as
just
backing
up
I'm
sure.
My
colleagues
would
I
disagree,
working
up
the
rate
of
pay.
M
There
are
other
other
variables
as
well,
because
we
know
that
currently
in
in
West,
Yorkshire
I
have
about
100
driver
vacancies
across
West
Yorkshire,
not
just
in
Leeds,
about
100
and
I,
have
200
people
waiting
and
in
the
training
school
ready
to
take
out
those
those
those
places.
But,
of
course
the
challenge
is
that
as
fast
as
I
I
mean
to
jobs,
then
an
equal
number
then
choose
to
leave.
So
it
is
a.
M
It
is
a
constant
challenge,
but
I
would
just
contend
that
it's
not
necessarily
solely
around
rated
players
around
the
basket
of
conditions
which
the
drivers
are
required
to
what
to
to
do.
But
fundamentally,
I
totally
agree
with
you.
Councilor
Wilson,
that
the
the
solution
to
a
profit,
sustainable
profit
levels
is
by
running
reliable
service
in
meanwood
and
elsewhere,
which
requires
the
right
numbers
of
drivers,
foreign.
K
Just
to
come
back
on
that
I
think
it
does
still
seem
there's
that
kind
of
chicken
and
egg
thing,
which
is
probably
that
the
drivers
would
be
getting
a
bit
less
negativity
from
passengers.
Although
I
don't
know
if
I'd
love
to
see
but
sort
of
evidence
that
that's
the
reason
that
drive
drivers
are
leaving.
K
Surely
it
makes
sense
for
them
to
invest
from
other,
more
profitable
areas
in
order
to
see
growth
in
West
Yorkshire,
because
I
really
do
believe
there
is
a
market
for
for
using
buses
and
I
I.
Think
it's
growing,
because
there
are
more
and
more
people
who
don't
want
to
drive
or
can't
drive,
can't
afford
to
drive
or
don't
want
to
do
it.
For
environmental
reasons.
M
So
it
is
not
just
a
West
Yorkshire
issue
and
that's
the
the
key
point.
It's
a
national
issue
that
we're
facing
along
with
much
of
the
service
sector
in
terms
of
of
what
are
the
ingredients
to
it.
Well,
I'm
sure,
I'll.
Let
my
unite.
Colleagues
respond
to
what
the
ingredients
are
pays.
One
thing
I
accept,
but
it
is,
as
I
said
earlier
on
in
my
response.
It's
also
around
the
shift
patterns,
the
length
of
time
that
people
have
sat
behind
a
wheel
for
late
nights.
The
turnarounds
between
juices.
R
R
It's
a
massive
part
of
it
because
when
you've
got
a
job,
what's
a
hard,
uncomfortable
job
and
nobody
wants
to
do
it
because
of
the
grief
you
get
coming
to
work,
the
grief
from
passengers
and
I'm
going
to
say
the
grief
from
the
the
management,
how
our
disciplines
going
depos
now
and
stuff
like
that,
then
you
should
pay
people
to
overcome
that
people
have
oil
rigs,
don't
do
it
for
minimum
wage.
They
get
paid
good
money
because
it's
a
hard
dangerous
job
and
they
get
paid
a
reward
for
it,
and
Paul
mentioned
scheduling.
R
Now,
unfortunately,
buses
run
from
five
in
the
morning
till
midnight
and
we
have
to
accept
that
we
have
to
accommodate
everybody
and
we
can
do
this,
but
there
are
ways
where
we
can
do
it.
We
can
work
with
Paul
on
different
ideas,
about
paying
people
to
do
different
shifts,
but
it
has
to
be
open
from
the
company
and
there
has
to
be
cash
inducements
to
do
that,
and
we're
always
open
to
talk
to
a
company
about
increasing
driver's
teas
and
season
the
doors
always
open
when
Paul
wants
to
knock
on
the
door.
Q
Q
When
trans
Dev
increased
their
pay
rate
at
their
Keith
Li
Depot,
they
then
got
lots
of
drivers
from
first
in
Bradford,
moving
from
Bradford
to
Keithley.
The
reason
for
that
was
that
where
they
live,
so
lots
of
those
drivers
probably
lived
nearer
to
Keithley
than
they
did
to
Bradford
and
therefore
the
commute
was
a
lot
shorter.
But
now
the
pair
was
on
parity
with
what
they
were
getting
in
Bradford.
So
those
drivers
took
the
decision
to
move
air
because
the
money
was
the
same
as
they
were
getting
in
Bradford.
Q
So
it
was,
it
was
it's
no
more,
no
less,
but
actually
the
work
is
deemed
to
be
better.
The
shifts
are
better
for
transdev
than
they
are
for
first
and
I.
Think
that
is
is
kind
of
wraps
up.
Tells
you
that
it's
not
necessarily
just
about
pay,
although
pay
certainly
helps
because
those
private
drivers
from
Bradford
wouldn't
have
gone
to
Keithley
if
the
pair
wasn't
on
parity,
so
you
know
it.
It
is,
and
and
I'll
be
genuinely
honest
with
you.
Q
Think
that's
partly
as
to
where
we
are
I
can
just
say
one
last
thing
like
lots
of
Industry,
where
we've
got
drivers,
the
demographic
appears
to
be
at
the
latter
end.
We
are
really
really
struggling
to
get
young
people
into
the
industry,
because
it's
same
with
the
haulage
industry
and
they're,
overcoming
that
a
little
bit
now
with
with
increasing
pair
two
or
narrowly
well
beyond
15
pounds
an
hour.
A
Yeah,
thank
you.
Darren
I
think
you
make
a
very
pertinent
point
and
we've
all
applauded
the
input
of
Frontline
workers.
Who
provided
Public
Service,
whether
it's
from
a
private
sector
or
a
public
sector
perspective
and
the
issue
of
of
pay
and
retention
and
recruitment
is
an
issue
right
across
the
piece
and
you've
described
it
in
respect
to
bus
drivers,
but
I'm
sure
we
could
all
list
a
number
of
areas
and
it's
a
it's
a
root
doubt
in
which
we
go
in
that
I
think
can
only
end
in
disaster.
If
it's
not
tackled
councilor
Shazam.
I
Thank
you,
chair
and
I'd
like
to
thank
the
bus
drivers
for
all
the
work
that
they've
been
doing
through
the
pandemic,
and
they
carry
on
doing
now,
but
I
just
want
to
pose
a
question
which
I'd
like
to
Echo.
What
Council
Wilson
has
already
said:
the
lack
of
drivers
and
the
lack
of
capacity
if
they're
not
going
to
pay
the
drive
of
the
north
and
we're
going
to
do
all
these
changes
and
spend
all
this
money
to
improve
the
bus,
Gates
and
the
bus
lanes
and
everything
else.
I
If
there's
no
drivers,
drivable
says
what's
going
to
happen,
then,
and
the
bottom
line
is
this:
is
we're
not
going
to
get
the
passengers
going
up
because
they've
got
no
reliability?
The
buses
are
just
canceled
at
the
tip
of
a
second
you've
got
somebody
going
to
work
his
way
in
just
like
on
the
Bus
51
and
52
he'll
be
waiting
for
his
boss
to
go
to
work
into
the
city
center.
Guess
what
the
bus
is
canceled,
so
he's
late
for
work.
I
I
You
got
to
get
up
at
four
o'clock
in
the
morning
to
get
to
the
depth
of
five
o'clock.
It's
not
a
job
that
everybody
wants
to
do,
but
it
should
be
paid
at
the
right
price.
So
people
are
willing
to
get
up
at
four
o'clock
in
the
morning
to
get
to
the
bus
depot
to
actually
drive,
and
the
other
issue
is.
This
is
all
all
what
we're
doing
with
the
buses
seems
to
be
focused
on
getting
the
buses
into
the
city
center
to
back
out
of
the
city
center.
I
But
what
we've
got
local
people
local
residents
in
our
wards
that
might
want
to
go
to
the
hospital,
but
there's
not
one
single
boss.
For
my
ward,
that
goes
from
my
ward
to
Saint
James's,
Hospital
directly
or
to
ldi
directly.
We've
got
an
area
aging
population.
They
don't
necessarily
want
to
get
into
taxes.
They
love
to
go
on
a
bus
because,
as
you
said,
the
marriage
rates
are
cheaper.
I
The
prices
are
good,
but
they're
not
going
to
get
on
those
buses
because
they
can't
get
to
where
they
want
to
go,
and
another
question
I've
got
is
the
issue
is
on
people
with
disabilities,
a
lot
of
people.
If
you
somebody's
got
a
push
here,
there
were
children
and,
depending
on
how
many
wheelchairs
want
to
get
on
onto
that
bus,
the
buses
just
haven't
got
the
capacity.
I
So
what
are
we
doing
with
for
those
people
that
have
disabilities
or
mothers
and
fathers
who
are
taking
their
children
into
the
city
center
on
Bush
Farms
facilities,
ain't
there
and
there's
a
big
delay
when
they're
trying
to
get
on
the
the
bus
as
well
again
that
impacts
the
reliability.
What
we're
looking
at
to
do
on
the
buses,
which
will
improve
that
for
the
people
with
disabilities
and
for
families
with
push
chairs
and
extra
luggage,
because
that's
a
massive
issue
for
a
lot
of
the
residents
as
well.
I
A
Okay,
three
very
wide,
ranging
questions.
The
first
point
about
driver
remuneration
and
recruitment,
I
think
we've
covered
in
some
detail,
but
I
think
councilor
shazales
again
summarized
the
points
that
have
been
made
very
very
effectively,
but
he
then
moved
on
to
two
other
questions.
One
of
connectivity
and
the
other
of
provision
for
people
with
disabilities
and
connectivity
certainly
be
one
of
the
issues
that
year
in
year
out
as
exercise
members
of
this
board.
A
One
of
the
difficulties,
of
course,
is
that
to
achieve
the
connectivity,
much
of
which
has
been
lost
by
Major
cutscenes
deregulation
in
1986,
is
that
it
requires
more
mileage
and
more
mileage
has
a
resource
implication,
and
one
of
the
messages
that's
coming
over
loud
and
clear
at
the
moment
is
that
that
is
a
real
challenge.
So
perhaps
we
can
concentrate
on
the
connectivity
and
the
disability
issues
that
the
councilor
Shazier.
N
But
so
I
start
in
terms
of
connectivity
issues
and
I
think
councilman
sort
of
raises
a
really
pertinent
Point
and
that
for
for
so
many
years,
the
bus
network,
not
just
in
Leeds
but
in
most
major
towns
and
cities,
has
been
focused
on
getting
people
to
and
from
the
town
city,
centers
and
and
focused
on
serving
those
places
as
the
employment
sites.
And,
and
so
we
and
that's
broadly,
the
worst
network.
N
We
I
think
we've
talked
about
this
in
in
last
year's
meeting
and
we,
the
service,
is
still
operating
in
East
Leeds.
We
we're
piloting
a
a
different
type
of
a
service
that
that
and
some
of
that,
actually
that
some
of
the
greatest
patronage
we've
seen
on
that
has
been
people
going
to
and
from
St
James's
hospital.
So
you
can
see
that
they've
changed
the
offer
a
little
bit.
N
Then
then
you
you
start
to
to
to
provide
those
services,
but
some
of
the
places
people
want
to
go
to
that
aren't
in
the
city
center.
They
don't
sort
of
generate
the
the
numbers
of
passengers
that
that
would
make
that
service
a
commercial
viability.
And
then
then
we
get
into
what
is
funded
and
affordable
on
the
public
sector
to
be
able
to
provide
us
to
supplement
and
I.
Think.
N
Accepting
the
fact
that
we
still
need
a
good,
viable
bus
service
to
take
people
in
and
out
City
centers,
and
that
job
is
still
there
to
be
done.
But
we
do
need
to
vary
the
product
and
having
an
hourly
bus.
That
goes
all
the
way
around
the
houses
and
eventually
ends
up
at
the
hospital
or
wherever
I
think
we've
seen
quite
a
lot
of
those
Services
fall
away,
because
the
journey
times
are
too
long.
N
They
take
people
way
out
of
the
the
the
most
direct
route
of
getting
to
where
they
want
to
be
and
and
those
people
who
moved
on
to
taxis
or
private
cars.
So
we've
got
to
get
the
sort
of
the
the
answers
right
on
this
one
and
I
think
the
at
one
level.
If
we
need
more
more
buses
to
go
to
more
and
more
places
than
there's
still
a
funding,
Gap
and
there's
still
a
a
balance
between
what
is
commercially
provided
and
what
is
funded
by
the
taxpayer.
N
That's
that's
the
trade-off
that
that
comes
out
of
out
of
those
decisions,
because
you
need
to
create
more
flat
floor
space
on
the
on
the
ground
level.
So
at
the
moment,
I
think
the
the
accessibility
standards
are
creating
situation
from
time
to
time
where,
where
more
than
one
person
wants
to
go
on
with
a
wheelchair
or
a
push
chair,
and
that's
where
the
sort
of
these
issues
emerge.
L
I
think
if
I
can
just
add
to
that
the
latest
buses
that
we've
purchased
can
accommodate
up
to
three
postures,
so
they
can
take
either
three
push
chairs
or
one
wheelchair
and
a
pushchair.
And
but
as
Dave
says
that
the
more
of
that
space
you
you
allocate
to
that
purpose,
the
less
seating
availability
you
have,
and
we
do
know
from
our
customer
surveys.
The
availability
of
seating
is
one
of
the
the
high
priority
factors
when
people
are
choosing
whether
to
travel
by
bus.
A
I
L
You
know
it
is
absolutely
a
challenge
in
it
and
it
is
one
that
we
recognize
up.
Some
push
chairs
are
mystery,
not
all,
and
certainly
the
bustier
that
I
used
when
I
had
my
little
one
and
wasn't
very
easy
to
fold,
but
we
do
encourage
people
with
young
children
to
fold
their
postures
where
possible
so
that
we
can
accommodate
as
many
as
possible,
but
as
I
say
you
are
sacrificed
in
seating.
So
by
by
allocating
that
space
for
pushchairs,
you
are
discouraging
other
people
off
the
bus.
L
A
I
mean
I
understand
the
point.
That's
been
made
Kim
and
I'm
sure
that
your
colleagues
from
other
operators
would
probably
reinforce
it,
but
it's
based
on
an
assumption
that
you
have
full
buses
and
that
pushchairs
or
the
space
that
they
take
up
would
be
occupying
seats
at
certain
times
that
other
Travelers
would
require.
But
that's
not
true,
most
of
the
day
and
families
and
pushchair
users,
without
wanting
to
be
stereotypical
or
generalized
over
much,
are
operating
outside
or
are
traveling
outside
peak
times.
E
I
think
perhaps
sure
if
I
could
come
in
the
counselor
makes
an
interesting
point
and
what
we're
we're
grappling
with
this
to
an
extent
at
the
moment,
with
our
spec
for
the
electric
buses
for
airport
routes,
part
of
our
zebra
scheme
and
where
we
need
to
provide
wheelchair
space
luggage.
Space
seats,
push
share
space
and
actually,
what
is
quite
a
small
vehicle.
E
E
Traditionally
they
have
seats
over
the
wheels
at
the
back
which
face
backwards
that
nobody
likes
using,
so
we've
taken
those
away
and
we've
put
additional
luggage
space
under
there.
So
people
who
can
sit
at
the
back
have
got
even
if
it's
laptop
size,
bag,
storage
or
shopping
bag
storage
under
that
trying
to
be
as
creative
as
you
can
to
make
the
best
use
of
that
space
to
to
match
the
to
match.
E
The
demand
I
think
it's
interesting
sound
like
an
old
man
now,
but
actually
go
going
back
20
years
when
the
first
low
floor
buses
came
along
and
actually
we
had
for
the
first
time
you
could
actually
wheel
a
push
chair
onto
a
bus
and
actually
how
transformational
that
was,
as
a
parent
from
trying
to
hold
your
child
in
one
hand,
fold
the
push
chair
down
and
shove
it
in
the
boot
of
the
car.
It
did
actually
help
us
open
up
a
new
market.
E
E
That
and
I
think
the
points
we
make
it
is
isn't
entirely
a
straightforward
solution,
because
you
are
technical
terms,
you
you,
you
can't
overload
the
bus,
you
have
to
work
within
the
the
weight
of
the
vehicle
as
to
what
you
can
do
and
you've
got
to
balance
it
out,
but
yeah
we're
alive
to
all
the
issues
and
constantly
pushing
our
manufacturing
Partners
to
to
come
up
with
the
solutions
for
the
customers
and
to
find
Innovation.
Take
a
little
bit
of
weight
out
of
the
the
structure.
A
N
How
it
operates
is
that
we
have
contracts
in
each
of
the
five
district
areas
of
West
Yorkshire,
the
this,
the
customers
contact
the
combined
Authority
and
we
make
a
booking
if
there's
a.
If
there's
a
space
available
on
the
journey
and
and
and
then
the
the
bus
picks
the
customer
up
somewhere
near
the
house
and
takes
them
to
the
destination
we
would,
it
tends
to
to
be
fixed
to
destination.
N
At
the
beginning
of
the
year,
we
were
having
particular
issues
with
that
contractor
and
the
maintenance
of
the
vehicles
and
the
reliability
as
we
that
we're
putting
service
back
after
the
the
pandemic,
because
service
was
was
warmed
down
a
little
bit
in
in
2020
in
an
early
2021
on
the
CT
plus
then
went
into
Administration
and
went
out
of
business,
and
so
we've
had
a
little
bit
of
a
Hiatus.
At
times
with
the
accessible
service,
we've
got
a
backup
and
running.
Now.
We've
got
a
different
contractor
running
it.
N
We've
done
work
to
to
bring
the
buses
back
up
to
standards,
so
access
bus
has
not
been
without
its
challenges
this
year,
but
it's
there
for
the
for
the
the
function,
particularly
of
people
who
find
using
the
mainstream
bus
service
is
difficult
and
it
generally
serves
a
relatively
local
Journeys
to
people's
local
shopping
and
Facilities.
It
doesn't
do
health
related,
Journeys
and
I
could
give
you
a
long
and
boring
explanation
as
to
why
it
doesn't
do
that.
N
P
It's
really
quickly
on
the
accessibility,
because
I've
noticed
on
some
buses
on
some
lines
at
the
headingley
line
and
the
airport
bus
which
I
got
in
the
summer
and
was
was
great
that
the
areas
towards
the
front
have
seats
that
fold
up.
So
if
there
isn't
anybody
with
buggies
or
wheelchairs,
then
people
can
sit
down
so
I
think
that's
a
really
really
good
Innovation!
P
O
Think
that
harks
back
to
well
he's
really
a
really
the
positive
reason
why
I
want
to
come
to
scrutiny,
to
find
out
and
tease
out
some
of
those
ideas?
How
we
can
build
this
back
better
and
a
bit
different
than
it
has
so
many
Journeys
we've
heard
before
were
reliant
on
those
commuter
Journeys
into
the
city
center.
It
they're
not
going
to
come
back
in
the
same
numbers
as
before,
so
we
need
to
be
thinking
outside
the
box
of
that
I.
O
They're
not
going
to
be
making
the
same
Journeys
as
before,
and
we
know
that
but
I
think
that's
the
really
key
issues
that'd
be
really
useful
to
to
contribute
today
and
to
also
see
whether
we
can
come
back.
Obviously,
this
is
an
annual
thing,
and
it's
my
first
time
here
and
I
know
but-
and
a
councilor
Groves
has
been
here
in
this
position
previously
doing
this
and
I.
F
My
question
is
to
you:
Dave
with
regards
the
trial
in
the
burmintuffs
and
Richmond
Hill.
How
long
is
that
going
to
be
continuing
and
because
I
that
when
I
was
on
the
transport
before
last
year-
and
that
was
ongoing,
so
I
want
to
know
when
is
that
trial
coming
to
our
end?
And
you
know
it
as
it
worked
and
will
it
be
rolled
out
elsewhere?
So
that's
my
question
to
you.
My
other
question
is
regarding
the
real
time
at
the
bus
stops.
F
They
find
them
really
really
really
good,
because
if
there's
a
bus
being
delayed
the
no
but
over
on
the
other
side
opposite,
the
road
I
can
tell
you,
for
example,
on
round
a
road,
the
one
opposite,
Saint,
Aidan's,
church
and
further
down
on
that
side.
There
is
no
real
time,
there's
just
the
paper
one
on
the
lampos
or
boss
boss
spot.
F
So
they
want
to
know
why
it's
they're
not
on
All
Buses,
because
they're
getting
used
to
them
on
one
side,
then,
on
the
other
side,
they're
they're,
not
there.
So
and
why
aren't
they
rolled
out
on
all
bus
stops
because
then
people
are
getting
used
to
them
now
and
my
other
thing
just
to
say
I
mean
it's
always
all
negative,
but
can
I
just
say
on
the
positive
bits.
F
So
that
has
improved,
even
though
you
know,
maybe
one
or
two
push
wheelchairs
can
get
on
where
in
my
days
they
weren't
able
to
and
they
pushed
Jazz
mothers
can
come
on
and
wheel
and
the
seats
are
flipped
up
or
down.
You
can
see
on
them.
So
those
are
the
good
sides
and
then
some
of
us
in
Brixton
in
London
tell
you
they
don't
care,
they
just
push.
Those
push,
hits
on
and
get
on,
and
people
just
have
to
move.
F
You
know
and-
and
they
are
really
really
good
I
just
said
over
the
years.
That
is
an
improvement,
even
though
you
know
we
don't
settle
for
that.
We
can
do
better
from
just
more
than
one
wheelchair,
but
from
my
day
to
now
it's
a
massive
Improvement
and-
and
you
know,
we're
always
negative.
So
sometimes
it's
just
good
to
give
a
little
bit
of
positive,
even
though
we
must
improve
and
don't
settle
for
for
the
slight
improvements.
A
Thank
you,
Sharon
could
I
just
piggyback
on
one
of
the
questions
that
councilor
Hamilton
has
raised
and
that's
about
real-time
information.
It
won't
come
as
a
shock
to
those
who
have
attended
previous
meetings
on
this
issue
and
it's
the
it's
the
Phantom
bus
syndrome,
whereby
the
real-time
information
shows
a
bus
approaching
your
bus
stop
and
then
it
disappears,
and
over
the
years
we've
been
given
assurances
that
this
has
been
looked
at,
that
it's
a
question
of
of
technology.
A
P
It
hasn't
got
it
and
on
the
other
side
it
has
in
the
bus,
shelter
and
but
some
Standalone
bus
stops
have
got
them.
You
know
like
without
a
bus
shelter,
but
there
was
two
elderly,
ladies
who
live
in
the
the
shelter
accommodation
near
my
house,
and
it
wasn't
working
so
I
actually
I've
contacted
Metro
and
it
got
fixed
very
very
quickly,
but
they
said
to
me
because
I
looked
up
when
the
bus
was
coming
on
my
phone
and
they
went
well,
you
see.
Well,
we
don't
have
those
magic
phones.
P
We
we
really
like
these.
They
really
we
really.
So
it
is
really
appreciated.
As
and
as
well
to
make
another
point
about
previous
to
the
real-time
information
you
didn't
know
whether
there
was
space
on
a
bus
for
a
wheelchair
or
a
push
chair
and
how
many
seats
were
on
it,
so
disabled
people
were
stopping
a
bus
and
not
being
able
to
get
on
it.
P
N
We
put
in
an
18-month
sort
of
break
point
in
that
which
takes
us
too
much
April
next
year,
where
you
know
we,
we
want
it
to
to
review
the
service
to
see
whether
or
not
it's
it's
still
valued
for
money
and
so
we're
in
the
process
of
of
looking
at
that
now
and
and
we'll
make
some
decisions
in
early
in
the
New
Year
in
terms
of
of
in
what
form
it
can
go
forward
after
that.
That
particular
point
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
it.
N
You
know
it's
it's
good
at
some
things,
and
and
it's
not
so
good
at
others,
and
it
was
a
trial
and
we
are
learning
as
we
as
we
go
through
and
I
think
there
are
some
some
learning
points
which
we
will
take
forward
into
whatever
further
Services
we
were
able
to
fund.
It
is
a
little
expensive.
I'll
say
that,
in
terms
of
the
the
the
cost
of
operating
a
service
in
that
way
is,
is
probably
more
than
particularly.
N
If
you
divide
the
number
of
passengers
that
are
using
it,
so
we
need.
We
do
need
to
make
sure
that
when
we
we
provide
these
sort
of
services,
we're
we're
confident,
there's
a
good
demand
and
we
we're
confident
that
they're
they're
the
right
thing
to
do
in
the
place,
but
but
that's
where
we
are
with
with
the
the
easily
service-
and
we
absolutely
will
engage
with
with
with
members
on
what
what
happens?
N
The
I
I
absolutely
understand
that
the
thinkers
as
Carl
ahead
and
said
that
not
everybody
uses
Mobile
smartphones,
but
if
you
do
use
a
mobile,
a
smartphone
and
you
are
at
a
bus,
stop
that
doesn't
have
a
a
display
there's
a
little
QR
code.
If
you
scan
the
QR
code
with
your
phone,
your
phone
will
actually
tell
you
the
same
thing
as
the
display
would
tell
you
so
so
to
a
certain
extent
yeah.
That's
that's!
That's
fine
for
people
to
do
that,
but
in
every
bus,
stop
in
West.
N
You
can
get
that
information
so
so
that
and
and
the
and
you
know
the
system
is,
is-
does
cover
every
every
single
bus
stop
councilor,
trustwell,
then,
and-
and
there
is
the
the
the
Specter
of
phantom
buses
which
we
have
talked
about
in
these
previous
meetings
and
I
think
that,
firstly,
most
buses
are
trapped
on
the
system.
Most
Journeys
are
tracked
on
the
system
and
I
think
the
system
generally
provides
information
and
the
fact
that
people
value
the
fact
that
there
is
a
screen
there.
N
We
we
have
commissioned
and
I
think
I
mentioned
this
at
the
last
meeting,
we've
we've
we've
actually
radically
changed
the
back
office
technology
that
sits
behind
the
system.
We've
commissioned
some
work
in
terms
of
data
analysis
to
to
understand
the
the
the
reliability
of
the
system
when
compared
with
actual
observations
on
the
ground,
we're
doing
quite
a
lot
of
work.
N
We
we've
got
a
good
system
here,
but
it
does
need
to
be
tweaked
and
and
go
and
and
enabled
so
that
people
can
have
confidence
in
it
and
I
think
we
do
recognize
that
I
wouldn't
say
that
we
haven't
had
complaints
about
Phantom
buses,
but
what
I
would
say
is
that
we're
working
closely
with
the
bus
operators
as
well,
because
this
isn't
just
a
technology
issue.
This
is
about
how
the
the
buses,
which
are
tracked
report
into
the
system
and
and
I-
think
we've
touched
on
earlier.
N
There's
probably
a
higher
level
of
council
Journeys
than
any
of
us
would
be
feel
comfortable
with,
and
it's
important
that
the.
If
a
bus
service
is
canceled,
then
the
system,
actually
it
tells
customers
that
and
I.
Think
we've,
probably
there's
probably
more
to
do
in
that
in
that
aspect
of
of
how
the
system
operates
as
well.
F
All
right,
thanks
for
that
Dave
you
you
I
know
you
mentioned
that
the
real
time
is
regarding
going
into
the
city.
People
also
want
to
know
what
what
time
the
buses
are
coming.
So,
the
knee
that's,
why
they're
asking
about
why
the
real
times
are
not
on
their
other
bus
stops
because
we
go
into
the
city.
F
Yes,
we
you
look
up
and
you
know,
but
they
also
want
to
know
you
know
what
time
it's
coming
to
go
like
rounder
glad
out,
Etc
I
mean
I
can
only
talk
about
rounder
for
this
moment
in
time,
but
it's
not
just
around
it.
I'm
talking
about
everywhere
else,
like
councilor
Hayden
said
you
know,
on
one
side
there
is,
and
on
the
other
side
you
also
mentioned
about
scanning
on
your
phone
Etc,
not
everybody
uses,
for.
F
We
must
remember
that
a
lot
of
the
elders
don't
know
how
to
download
the
app
about
I
mean
I
have
to
get
my
grandson
to
do
it.
You
know.
Sometimes
you
know,
so
we
need
to
think
about
other
people
and
they're
getting
used
to
the
real
time.
So
we
need
to
consider
them
as
well.
Yes,
if,
when
I
went
to
get
the
bus-
and
there
wasn't
I-
can
do
that
on
my
phone,
but
not
everybody.
So
we
need
to
take
other
people
into
consideration.
N
I
think
that
I
think
and
hopefully
I'd
recognize
the
fact
that
the
the
the
mobile
phone
option
isn't
it
isn't
available
forever
for
everybody
and
and
but
it
is
it's
it's
just.
You
know
we're
trying
to
use
what
what
we've
got
to
be
able
to
to
deliver
things
to
people
in
that.
In
that
sense,
but
I
think
it
comes
to
happen
to
makes
it
a
fair
point
and
we
can't
rely
upon
mobile
phone
technology
in
its
entirety,
but
it
does
have
a
place
to
play.
A
J
We
have
had
recent
complaints
about
the
real-time
service
and
a
lot
of
them
have
been
in
isolated
areas
across
these
Leeds
where,
for
instance,
young
women
have
been
waiting
for
a
bus,
and
you
know
they've
not
had
that
information
and
the
bus
hasn't
turned
up
so
I
think
looking
at
isolated
areas
out
of
the
city
center
for
real-time
information
would
be
good
as
well.
Thanks.
C
C
C
Next
question
was
a
plea
on
behalf
and
councilor
sharp
hit
the
nail
on
the
head
about
the
outer
areas,
all
Woodly.
How
would
rather
be
is
the
outer
Northeast
and
some
of
the
services
are
really
poor,
as
you
can
imagine.
Probably
the
7s
up,
Shadwell
Lane
is
one
of
the
worst
services
in
England,
as
far
as
I
can
tell
so.
C
I
would
just
Echo
the
pleas
for
improvements
in
those
and
then
finally,
on
page
38
of
the
report,
it
mentions
a
five-year
plan,
but
given
what
we've
been
told
about
the
uncertainty
of
ongoing
Government
funding,
it
could
all
come
to
an
end
next
April,
given
that
we
don't
know
what
the
money
income
is
going
to
be
from
that
Source
How.
Can
there
be
a
five-year
plan?
Thank
you.
Chad.
N
You
know
it
was
chosen
as
a
memorable
amount
as
well,
because
I
think
one
of
the
the
important
aspects
of
this
is
is
the
the
feedback
we've
had
from
over
many
years.
Is
that
people
don't
understand
how
much
your
bus
fare
costs
so
so
to
to
bring
something
in
that?
That
is
both
feels
come
feels
affordable,
but
also
is
understandable.
N
N
We
we
and
I
think
as
as
Council
Buckley
will
know,
because,
as
a
member
of
the
command
Authority,
we
we
set
ourselves
a
three-month
process
in
terms
of
understanding
what
was
happening
with
the
mayor's
fairs.
What
what
the?
What
the
cost
was,
what
the
benefits
were
and
we've
we're,
what
would
sort
of
just
in
two
months
of
that?
N
What
is
what
is
a
bus
Network
that
actually
means
the
sort
of
connectivity
challenge
that
people
want
and
we
clearly,
even
at
29
million-
that's
not
going
to
deliver
that
overnight,
so
that
the
The
Five-Year
Plan
is
to
say
well
actually,
how
do
we
use
that
29
million
to
to
to
deliver
stage?
One
of
that
and
then
obviously
we
will
need
to
to
look
up
at
how
that's
gone
and
how
we
can.
We
can
build
things
going
forward.
N
Think
you'll,
you
would
find,
even
even
as
we
speak,
the
the
large
amounts
of
of
the
combined
authorities
funded
bus
services
tend
to
be
in
the
rural
and
Suburban
areas
of
of
the
region,
because
those
are
the
areas
where
the
population
is
is
slightly
less
less
dense
and
the
passenger
numbers
are
lower
and
the
need
to
to
supplement
and
I
think
that
you
know
going
forward
there.
There's
probably
this
that
need
is
probably
still
there
and
it
will
continue
to
be
there
and
I
think
the
folks.
N
D
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
just
want
to
quickly
go
back
on
something
that
we
discussed
right
at
the
start
of
the
meeting.
Paul
I
think
you
mentioned
I
think
he
said
one
of
the
biggest
things
holding
you
back
was
Recruitment
and
Retention
of
Staff
we're
not
talking
just
about
drivers
but
also
maintenance
staff
as
well.
So
then
that
brings
us
on
to.
We
talked
about
shift,
pay
and
I.
Think
again,
Paul.
You
said
that
you
didn't
believe
that
shift
pay
was
an
issue
with
this.
D
D
The
reason
I
did
it
for
28
years
was
because
I
was
well
rewarded
and
a
lot
of
the
people
that
I
worked
with
did
over
30
years.
So
the
actual
shift
work
itself
is
not
an
issue.
It
comes
down
to
pay
and
reward
so
sort
of
moving
on
to
there
we
ask
ourselves:
we
talked
about
the
oil
rig
element.
Well,
if
you
look
at
the
value
to
item
pay
ratio,
obviously,
if
you're
on
an
oil
rig,
you
generate
more
value
than
probably
somebody
driving
a
bus.
That's
a
simple
fact!
D
So
then
we
talk
about
you
know:
do
we
subsidize?
Do
we
move
value,
that's
generated
during
the
busy
day
into
the
pay
rates
for
the
people
in
the
evening?
I
guess
there's
an
element
of
that
already
going
on,
but
it's
obviously
not
enough,
and
then
there
obviously
needs
to
be
more
subsidization
going
into
the
less
profitable
evening
shifts
and
also
to
retain
the
drivers
and
and
the
maintenance
staff.
D
M
So
I
go
first
yeah
I.
Certainly
we
were,
as
were
all
the
operators
heavily
involved
and
consulted
and
and
with
the
whole
BCF
building
process,
and
so
I
think
the
simple
answer
from
my
point
of
view:
yes,
I
think
it
it
has
been
well
spent
and
I
think
it
needs
to
be
Allied
to
the
the
other
funding
stream,
the
crsts
funding
stream
on
infrastructure
to
deliver
a
reliability
improvements
as
well
so
I
think
put
putting
the
two
together
then
I.
Think
yes
is
the
answer.
M
Does
it
address
the
fundamental
issue
that
we've
been
all
talking
about
today
in
terms
of
driver
shortage,
driver
pay?
No,
and
it
was
never
going
to
be
designed
to
do
that.
That's
something
that
that
has
to
be
a
within
the
the
realm
currently
anyway
of
The
Operators
to
seek
to
resolve
and
that's
what
we
are
definitely
trying
to
do
so.
M
O
We
want
to
see
as
elected
members
around
West
Yorkshire
and
a
network
that
is
viable
and
sustainable
for
The
Operators.
But
one
thing
I
do
want
to
highlight
on
that
that
money
is
five
years.
There
is
no
guarantee
there's
money
after
that,
so
all
of
those
plans
will
be
aimed
at
making
sure
that
they
are
sustainable
within
that
period.
It's
about
us
Pub,
priming
from
that
money,
I
guess
taking
some
of
those
risks
that
councilor
Wilson
was
talking
about
earlier.
O
Trying
out
some
new
Services,
we
with
the
hope
that
they
fly
or
planned
so
that
they
fly
and
then
can
can
be
taken
on
by
the
commercial
operators.
After
that
and
retain,
and
in
fact
many
of
the
contracts
will
look
at
having
subsidization
for
the
first
few
years
and
then
running
for
a
couple
of
years
as
a
as
a
commercial
service.
But
that
is
the
the
key
for
it.
O
And,
to
be
honest,
if
you
talk
to
The
Operators,
if
we
were
to
make
that
Target
of
doubling
the
bus,
patronage,
I'm,
sure
they'd
be
as
happy
as
Larry
and
we
wouldn't
have
to
be
be
chasing
these
new
buses
and
anything
else
that
was
coming
because
that
investment
would
come
from
The
Operators
when
we
get
to
those
numbers.
So
that's
what
I'm
really
working
on?
How
do
we
get
the
maximum
number
of
bombs
on
seats
on
on
those
buses
and
I'll?
Follow
everything
to
get
there.
A
Yeah
thanks
Peter
I
think
it's
a
very
important
point
that
the
crucial
cost
of
any
major
organization
is
pay,
and
that
has
to
be
based
on
recurrent
funding,
whether
it's
grant
funding
or
Fair
box
funding
in
this
case,
and
it
can't
be
based
on
one-off
time,
limited
sources
of
funding,
because
that's
a
recipe
ultimate
with
Red,
Cliff,
Edge
and
and
disaster.
But
Kim
you
wanted
to
come
in.
L
L
Would
we
have
liked
funding
to
support
the
networks
and
stop
us
having
to
make
any
network
changes?
Yes,
absolutely,
and
but
the
funding
conditions
from
the
DFT
didn't
allow
the
funding
to
be
spent
in
that
way
and
as
councilor
Carl
said,
that
would
have
been
a
sticking
plaster
of
a
short-term
measure
that
we
still
would
have
had
to
face
the
challenge
at
the
end
of
the
the
funding
period.
I
think,
fundamentally,
our
financial
position
is
probably
not
as
healthy
as
Paul's
and
the
brg
funding.
L
L
E
E
Obviously
it's
not
all
committed
yet
in
that
an
element
has
gone
for
the
the
fairs
cupping
on
the
basis.
That
was
something
that
we
could
do
now.
It
didn't
require
additional
resource.
Basically
to
do
that.
The
second
stage
is
focus
so
much
on
network
enhancements,
and
these
are
very
much
designed
to
effectively
pump
Prime
and
develop
new
and
better
links
where
at
the
moment
the
network
doesn't
provide
that
and
yeah.
E
We
were
working
very
hard
at
the
moment
to
stabilize
where
we
are
so
that
we
can
hopefully
next
summer,
be
in
a
position
to
to
expand
where
this
this
funding
permits
us,
but
it's
it's
very
much
there
to
try
and
stimulate
a
virtuous
circle,
so
the
the
bigger
the
network
becomes
than
what
people
that
travel,
it's
the
age-old
routinely
that
the
more
people
travel,
more
sustainable.
The
network
is
but
you've
got
to
you've
got
to
give
it
a
Kickstart,
and
that's
where
this
funding
is
is
designed
to
do
so.
A
Before
I
invite
you
back
in
Mike,
I
think
Kim
makes
a
very
important
point
about
the
subsidies
over
the
years
that
has
gone
to
the
rail
network.
Successive
governments
is
not
part
of
political
points.
Successive
government's
labor
and
conservative
and
mixed
I've
tended
to
concentrate
on
rail
Services
when
they've
talked
about
public
transport.
Yet
we
know
the
vast
majority
of
public
transport
Journeys
are
undertaken
by
bus
and
that
the
bus
fulfills
a
much
more
crucial
local
need
in
terms
of
connectivity
than
real
services
do,
even
though
they
are
really
important
so
Mike.
D
Yeah,
sorry
thanks
everybody
for
that
yeah.
The
thing
I
would
come
back
on
is,
first
of
all,
the
the
two
pound
maximum
mayor's
fare
isn't
sustainable
unless
you
get
further
financial
support,
that's
a
three-year
scheme
as
far
as
I'm
aware,
but
the
most
people
that
look
to
benefit
from
the
two
pair
maximum
fare
are
in
the
outlying
areas
of
the
city
and
yet
they're
the
ones
where
you've
cut
all
the
services.
So
I
hear
every
day,
what's
the
point
of
a
two
pound
fee,
if
I've
got
no
bus,
foreign.
B
D
N
To
the
leads
public
transport
investment
program
as
well
into
improved
working
facilities
in
the
nearby
cottingley
estate
to
to
to
help
the
people
in
that
area
who,
in
in
terms
of
moving
the
the
real
station
from
accordingly
nearer
that
there's
white
rose,
so
consideration
has
been
made
in
terms
of
how
how
that
connectivity
can
be
reinforced.
There
may
be
other
things.
Could
we
do
further
once
the
station's
up
and
running,
we
see
the
sort
of
levels
of
demand
that
comes
from
it.
D
L
D
L
Yes,
I
think
similar
to
Paul
I'd
need
to
go
away
and
look
at
the
detail
behind
it,
but
but
I
am
aware
of
whether
the
station
location
is
and
the
white
rose,
shopping
center
and
I
know
that.
Certainly
my
team
that
planned
the
network
for
me
have
been
quite
heavily
involved
in
that
and
I've
been
feeding
back
their
their
views
on
it.
A
If
we
go
to
page
31
and
the
summary
of
the
bus
service
improvement
plan,
it
says,
while
existing
provision
has
been
shared
by
historic
demand
patterns,
60
of
bus
routes
in
our
region
still
require
some
level
of
financial
support
from
public
funds.
I
just
wondered
if
you
could
clarify
that
apparent
slightly
disparity,
hey.
A
My
next
question
relates
to
a
point.
You
made
Dave
right
at
the
start
of
the
discussion
about
the
fact
that
some
of
the
reduction
in
patronage
has
been
in
the
area
of
concessionary
travel.
I.
Think
that's
what
you
said
and
if
it
is,
unless
I
misheard
again,
is
there
any
explanation
for
that,
because
those
who
rely
on
concessionary
travel
without
being
stereotypical
tend
to
be
those
in
most
need
of
bus
services,
for
education
for
for
Health,
appointments
for
Recreation
for
shopping
Etc,
so
I
wondered
if
you
could
elucidate
that
and
I
suppose.
N
The
the
11
percent
figure
in
the
report
I
mean
one
of
the
things
that
the
department
for
transport
required
bus
operators
and
local
transport
authorities
to
do
in
the
summer
was
to
to
analyze
the
the
the
routes
which
are
at
current
levels
of
Demand,
with
no
funding
going
forward
which
are
are
viable
on
a
commercial
basis
in
which
which
weren't
and
that
work
was
done
and
and
I.
Think
as
as
Paul
mentioned
earlier.
N
If
the
funding
hadn't
been
continued,
then
that
would
that
sort
of
creates
a
list
of
services
which
were
were
under
under
threat
of
either
withdrawal
or
a
significant
reduction,
and
in
some
respects
that
is
the
Armageddon
situation
we
still
face.
If
the
funding
just
doesn't
continue,
I
the
the
analysis
was
done
in
in
sort
of
May
and
June,
and
we've
had
subsequent
sort
of
impacts
of
inflation
as
well,
so
I
I,
whilst
I
think
patronage
might
have
might
start
edging
up.
N
As
we
talked
about
earlier
in
in
recent
months,
costs
have
as
well
so
I
can't
imagine
that
the
situation
has
has
improved,
particularly
since
that
work
was
done.
The
bus
service
improvement
plan
I
think
that's
slightly
saying
a
different
thing
and
apologies.
If,
if
it
is
a
bit
confusing,
what
that's
saying
is
is
approaching
two-thirds
of
all
bus
routes
in
West
Yorkshire,
the
combined
Authority
is
paying
something
towards
in
lots
of
cases.
N
That
is
that
the
combat
Authority
might
be
paying
for
some
very
early
morning
or
some
late
evening,
or
some
Sunday
Journeys
on
a
service
that
otherwise
is
commercial.
At
the
other
end
of
that
Spectrum,
there
are
quite
a
lot
of
routes
where
the
combined
Authority
pays
and
contracts
that
service
in
its
entirety,
so
I
think
the
60,
odd
percent
figure
has
basically
sent.
N
The
the
sort
of
fluctuations
in
satisfaction
is
quite
interesting,
interesting
one
and
with
that
that
the
survey
information
which
we
provided,
we
have.
We
have
two
sources
of
information
traditionally
in
terms
of
bus
service
satisfaction,
we
have
something
that
the
combat
Authority
in
in
Metro
days,
we've
been
doing
for
quite
a
lot
of
years,
which
is
what
we
call
the
tracker
survey,
where
we
do
a
sample
of
of
phoning
people
up,
essentially
some
variety
of
questions
about
their
use
of
public
transport.
N
How
the
you
know
the
satisfaction
and
importance
of
of
various
different
facilities.
One
of
those
questions
is
is
around
bus
services.
It
does
move
around
a
little
bit.
You
one
could
speculate
that.
It
is
some
of
the
difficulties
we've
talked
about
earlier
in
terms
of
the
impact
on
on
service
reliability
out
of
things
like
Workforce
issues
and
and
traffic
congestion,
and
other
things
can
can
impact
on
that.
N
He
he
could
possibly
also
assign
the
fact
that
the
people
who
who
were
using
Services
during
the
pandemic-
we're
probably
valuing
them
very,
very
strongly
because
you
know
that
was
their
only
way
of
getting
to
work
and
that
people's
sort
of
their
registered
satisfaction
relative
to
to
the
sort
of
how
the
value
of
the
service
as
well.
So
we
might
have
fits
in
a
since
the
since
the
pandemic
sort
of
moved
away
from
us
a
little
bit,
people's
sort
of
Tolerance
of
of
punctuality
may
have
fallen
away.
N
N
They
don't
want
to
travel
by
bus.
There
might
be
an
element
of
that,
but
I
think
one
of
the
things
we
we
do
look
at
is
that
as
the
cohort
of
a
car
owning
older
people
sort
of
extends,
then
then
we
was
already
seeing
a
little
bit
of
a
of
a
shrinkage
in
those
Journeys
before
the
pandemic
and
I
think
there's
a
demographic
factor
in
that
and
then
there's
probably
changed
shopping
habits
and
other
things
that
sit
in
there
so
generally
I.
N
Think
the
the
explanation
around
that
is
is
probably
for
probably
a
good
thesis
topic
because
I
think
it's
quite
complex,
but
it
does
impact
I
think
the
reason
why
Paul
mentioned
it
it
does
impact,
because
if
it's
few
people
traveling
and
ultimately
that
that
isn't
benefiting
the
bus
service
and
it
there's
a
piece
of
work
to
be
done
that
actually
encourages
some
of
those
people
back
to
the
bus
and
starts
still
a
piece
of
work.
That's
worthwhile
doing.
E
E
At
the
moment
our
internal
satisfaction
scores
are
lower
than
they
have
been
for
many
years.
Our
service
delivery
is
poorer
than
it
has
been
for
many
years,
and
the
data
Geeks
in
my
team
have
correlated
the
two.
We
get
really
good
scores
for
friendness
of
drivers.
We
get
good
scores
for
our
app
for
cleanliness
of
the
bus.
E
Sorry,
this
is
not
a
particularly
leads
statistic,
so
it's
across
our
North
we're
carrying
just
under
70
of
the
senior
citizens,
concession
passengers.
We
were
pre-pandemic,
but
we
are
seeing
about
95
of
the
passes
still
scanned.
So
people
are
people
are
still
traveling,
but
generally
less
often,
and
we've
seen
that
particularly
in
urban
areas,
so
we've
got,
for
example,
a
route
that
goes
around
the
Villages
near
Ripon
and
that's
pretty
much
recovered
its
concession
passengers
because
they,
generally
speaking,
only
went
out
once
a
week
anyway,
because
it
was
their
their
trip.
E
We
are
seeing
people
traveling
less
often
in
that
demographic,
which
must
be
having
wider
impacts
than
on
us.
It
must
be
affecting
your
towns
and,
and
particularly
your
local
shopping
centers
out
in
the
in
the
districts.
It
must
be
affecting
retailers
as
well
I
think
it's
a
broader
Point
than
simply
a
transport.
We
are
there.
We
are
there
to
provide
the
means
for
people
to
go
out.
We
need
to
encourage
them
to
get
out
there.
It
must
be
affecting
loneliness
and
isolation
and
I.
E
Think
that's
probably
where
we
need
to
think
of
this
as
more
of
than
a
transport
issue.
It's
an
economic,
it's
a
social,
it's
a
an
isolation,
and
it's
just
people
issue
really,
isn't
it
what
we
need
to
do
as
a
society
to
make
people
feel
safe
and
comfortable
going
out
again
and
the
proportionate
them
will
do
that
by
bus
and
that
will
make
our
networks
sustainable,
going
forward.
O
O
O
At
that
point,
to
ask
whether,
in
any
different
position,
probably
as
Dave
alluded
to
that
situation,
probably
only
got
worse
with
the
costs
continuing
to
increase
for
those
things
and
we
are
seeking.
Then
that
actually
comes
to
a
foster
bridge
to
point
earlier
of
cross
subsidy.
Well,
there
is
cross
subsidy
against
all
those
routes.
At
the
moment
you
know
there'll
be
a
very
popular
route
between
you
know,
say
one
between
Bradford
and
Leeds
city
center.
That
is
then
paying
for
some
of
the
other
routes.
So
it's
not
just
a
case.
O
We
have
to
direct
that
as
best
we
can
to
those
areas
of
of
deprivation
where
we
know
those
communities
rely
on
the
bus
service
as
their
only
way
of
getting
around
to
those
that
would
otherwise
have
no
service
whatsoever.
So
this
community
is
not
left
completely
isolated,
but
it
will
not
save
all
of
those
and
I.
Think
that's.
Why
notes
in
the
paper
that
councilor
Hinchcliffe
has
written
to
the
Secretary
of
State
really
around
that
long-term
funding
for
buses?
O
The
model
that
we
see
now
isn't
sustainable
unless
anything
comes
through
in
March
I'm,
expecting
there
to
be
a
list
of
100
again
or
more
services
that
operators
have
concerns
about
that
we're
looking
to
work
on,
but
at
the
combined
Authority
we
won't
be
able
to
pick
up
that
whole
tab
in
any
way.
So
it
is
really
I.
O
Guess
Jairus,
like
plea
to
you
to
ask
for
any
support
you
can
give
to
those
calls,
because
that
is
what
we
do
need
to
see
to
keep
buses
going
and
in
the
the
largest
city
in
Western
Europe.
Without
a
mass
transit
system,
buses
are
the
one
way
we
get
people
around,
but
two
the
one
way
we
get
people
around
sustainably.
A
B
Well,
I,
don't
actually
think
I
am
chair,
but
thank
you
so
I'll
leave
that
for
you.
Thank
you
very
much
for
all
speakers.
Today,
we've
discussed
the
driver
shortage
element
at
length
today
with
some
speakers
dating
that
it's
one
of
the
primary
contributing
factors
behind
the
current
level
of
service
while
I
understand
that's
an
issue
for
operators
to
address
the
West
Yorkshire
bus
service
improvement
plan
doesn't
really
seem
to
reference
this
or
recognize
it
in
its
challenges.
B
A
N
Yeah,
just
just
to
to
to
clarify
councilor
Olsen's
question
really
I
mean
firstly,
liberal
service
improvement
plan
documentation
you
have
in
front
of
you
I
think
we
probably
provided
it
to
the
last
meeting
as
well.
So
it's
in
the
the
deadline
for
us
to
submit
that
was
was
back
in
October
21,
where
I
think
that
some
of
the
the
the
driver
shortage
issues
will
begin
to
emerge
at
that
particular
point.
N
So
the
the
bus
service
improvement
plan
is
a
is
a
live
document,
and
you
know
we
we
will.
It
does
actually
recognize.
One
of
the
risks
is:
is
driver
availability,
so
what
you're
seeing
there
is
a
sort
of
glossy
front-end
to
a
much
bigger
document
that
does
actually
Identify
some
of
the
operational
challenges
that
the
set
that's
there
to
be
set
as
and
and
is
definitely
an
issue
for
the
bus,
Alliance
and
the
enhanced
partnership
to
address.
N
But
we've
also
got
to
be
mindful
of
the
fact
that
each
organizations
have
their
own
role
to
play.
The
combine
Authority,
the
council
and
the
bus
operators
are
the
employers
of
those
divers
and,
to
a
certain
extent,
we
we
we've
got
a
plan
that
that
assumes
that
this
sort
of
core
responsibilities
of
each
of
the
parties
are
recognized
and
and
their
employment
issue
is,
is
with
the
bus
operators
as
their
issue.
So
so,
but
just
to
be
reassured
that
the
bus
Alliance
is,
is
and
will
keep
sort
of.
N
B
A
Irrespective
of
how
effective
the
network
is,
and
drivers
and
I
suppose,
it's
prompted
by
an
experience
that
myself
and
councilor
Alderson
had
this
morning
of
making
really
good
progress
to
Park
Lane
and
then
finding
that
there
was
not
quite
a
gridlock
but
a
lot
of
congestion
and
cueing.
And
that
was
cause-
and
this
is
an
issue
across
the
city
that
I'm
sure
members
right
across
Leeds
will
have
experienced
of
drive
this
queuing
into
Junctions.
A
And
quite
often
it's
recognized
that
that
is
a
problem
because
we've
got
the
yellow
hatching,
much
of
which
tends
to
have
been
worn
away
and
not
replaced
and
I'm
just
wondering,
and
this
I
think
is
a
question
directed
to
council
Hayden
and
to
highways
as
to
how
far
we
are
looking
at
mechanisms
for
addressing
that.
I
mean
I
hope
it's
clear
what
I'm
saying
basically
at
traffic
Islands
or
traffic
light
control,
Junctions
military
securing
across
Junctions.
A
So
when
the
lights
change
or
when
the
island
egress
becomes
clear,
Motors
simply
can't
use
it
because
they
have
got
a
queue
of
traffic
in
front
of
them
and
that
I
think
not
just
recently
when
we've
had
a
lot
of
infrastructure
work
being
carried
out
which
we'll
have
short-term
impacts.
But
it's
an
issue
that
I,
as
a
driver,
have
seen
getting
worse
and
worse
over
the
years,
and
certainly
it's
it's
probably
at
its
peak
at
the
moment.
Given
the
volume
of
traffic
and
the
impact
of
that
queuing
across
Junction.
P
I'll
I'll
start
and
bring
in
Kate
because
she's
the
expert
but
yeah
it
is.
It
is
a
problem
and
it's
it's
not
a
new
problem
and
we
see
it
in
my
world
as
well
about
you
can't.
Actually,
if
the
rights
change
you
can't
actually
get
out
because
and
I've
seen,
bosses
haven't
negotiate
that
as
well
and
and
it
will
cause
problems.
P
G
I
think
there's
a
real
opportunity
to
improve
it
in
terms
of
we're
just
about
to
get
new
powers
around
moving
traffic
offenses.
So
we're
doing
some
work
at
the
moment
to
look
in
terms
of
where
we
would
focus
those
efforts.
But
that
does
give
us
the
power
now
as
the
city
council
to
be
able
to
put
cameras
up
or
whatever
it
is
in
terms
of
enforcing
abuse
of
things
like
the
yellow
box
and
band
terms.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
Kate
I'll.
Take
that
as
a
high
point
of
which
to
end
this
discussion,
I
look
forward
to
seeing
the
measures
in
Juco.
So
thank
you
very
much.
Everyone
at
the
top
table
I
did
describe
it
as
a
shooting
gallery.
I
didn't
really
mean
that
earlier,
but
at
least
one
of
the
contributors
might
have
seen
it
as
a
bit
of
a
shooting
gallery.
A
I
want
to
thank
Paul
from
first
because
when
he
comes
along
he's
always
in
the
firing
line,
I
always
think
he
tries
to
be
as
transparent
and
helpful
as
possible.
But
thank
you
everyone
else
for
for
your
for
your
contributions
and
clearly
delighted
that
we've
been
able
to
have
everyone
back
who
contributed
to
the
previous
report,
including
our
colleagues
from
unite.
So
once
again,
thank
you
very
much
Helen.
You
want
to
come
to
congratulations.
P
Really
really
quickly
because
I
know
can
I
thank
scrutiny.
This
scrutiny
board
for
the
importance
that
it
puts
on
our
bus,
service
and
I
think
that's
really
valuable
and
I
think
it
really
helps
to
improve
the
bus
services
for
the
people
of
Leeds,
because
it
is
really
important
so
just
to
thank
you,
chair
and
the
VOD
for
keeping
the
buses
really
important.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
We
are
aware
that
it's
an
issue
that
exercises
every
one
of
our
residents
almost
as
well
as
us
as
their
elected
representatives,
and
it's
the
reason
why
it's
the
only
item
on
this
agenda,
because
history
has
talked
to
told
us
that
yet
we
do
tend
to
address
it
in
some
detail
in
it
somewhere.
But
once
again,
thank
you.
Everyone,
who's,
attended
and
contributed
your
contributions
are
really
really
value,
genuinely
okay,
right
that
takes
us
on
to
the
next
item
on
the
agenda.