►
From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Infrastructure, Investment & Inclusive Growth Scrutiny Board 27th October 2021
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
That
ages,
me,
don't
they
so
good
morning,
everyone
here
and
any
members
of
the
public
viewing
online
welcome
to
the
october
meeting
of
the
infrastructure,
investment
and
inclusive
growth
scrutiny
board.
I'm
going
to
start
by
asking
council
and
members
of
the
board
to
introduce
themselves,
and
I
will
ask
all
our
other
attendees
and
guests
to
introduce
themselves
when
we
reach
the
substantive
item
on
the
agenda
for
which
you're
in
attendance
so
going
through
in
order
council
eventually.
A
Councillor
gettings
has
sent
his
apologies
he's
having
to
isolate
council
goddard
has
also
submitted
his
apologies,
but
I'm
delighted
to
welcome
councillor
taylor
as
his
substitute
counselor
taylor.
B
Hello
there
lisa
martin.
A
Okay,
councillor
shazad,
I
don't
think
he's
here
yet
councillor
sharp.
A
A
A
Ask
you
to
introduce
yourself
in
a
second
late
items.
There
are
no
late
items,
although
you
will
have
noticed
members
that
there
are
copies
of
the
minutes
of
the
board
meeting
of
the
16th
of
september,
which
in
a
few
seconds
I
will
ask
you
to
to
approve
or
otherwise
declarations
of
interest.
I'm
not
aware
of
any
declarations
of
interest
that
haven't
already
been
declared
formally
by
members.
Apologies.
I've
indicated
the
apologies
from
members,
but
we
have
also
had
an
apology
from
councillor
hayden
counselor
agent.
A
Aidan
has
submitted
to
me
her
abject
apologies
for
being
unable
to
attend
this
morning.
As
everyone
will
know,
it
is
the
school
half
term
holidays
and
she,
despite
our
her
best
efforts,
has
been
unable
to
secure
child
care
in
order
to
allow
her
to
attend
this
morning,
and
I
hope
members
of
the
board
will
understand
that
I
did
ask
whether
it
would
be
possible
for
a
deputy
councillor
carl
to
attend,
but
he
is
in
the
same
position.
He
does
have
young
children
and
it
is
half
term
and
he's
got
parental
duties
to
perform.
A
So
implicitly,
he
sends
his
apologies
as
well.
So
turning
to
a
gender
item,
six,
the
minutes
of
the
last
meeting
on
the
the
29th,
but
also
the
minutes-
and
I
think
there
are
apologies
from
from
offices
that
it
wasn't
possible
to
process
these
in
time.
So
I'll
start
off
with
the
minutes
of
the
of
the
16th,
and
I
know
that
board
members
have
not
had
an
opportunity
to
read
through
them
in
detail
and
they
are
quite
comprehensive.
A
E
Of
course
jonathan,
thank
you.
I
fully
accept
that
the
executive
member
in
the
deputy
exec
member
couldn't
attend
today.
However,
it's
not
recorded
in
these
in
these
minutes
that
last
time,
although
the
executive
member
was
present
for
the
start,
didn't
stay
for
the
whole
inquiry,
and
I
have
to
reiterate
my
feelings
that
the
administration
we've
waited
a
long
time
to
get
to
this
point,
and
someone
from
the
administration
should
really
have
been
here
for
both
sessions
and
there's
been
nobody
here
for
either.
E
So
I
think
it
should
be
recorded
in
in
these
meetings
that
the
the
exec
member
left
after
about
half
an
hour.
Thank
you.
A
A
And
I
think
I
think
I
also
need
to
make
it
clear
that
councillor
aidan
in
my
discussions
with
that
is
very
much
up
to
speed
on
what
we've
discussed.
She
may
even
be
watching
the
proceedings
from
her
home.
I
don't
know,
but
I
know
that
she
will
do
her
utmost
to
catch
up
with
what
we
discussed
today
in
fairness
to
her.
She
does
actually
take
this
matter
very
very
seriously,
but
thank
you
for
that.
Jonathan,
okay,
going
back
to
the
minutes
and
page
five
anything
on
there,
either
to
to
raise
or
correct
page
six.
B
On
the
last
bullet
point
on
page
eight,
there
was
a
request
for
criteria
relating
to
pedestrian
crossings.
I
wonder
if
that
request
has
been
either
made
or
we've
had
to
come
back
on
it.
Ricky.
A
Right
so
board
members
happy
for
me
to
sign
these
as
a
correct
record
on
behalf
of
the
board
yeah.
Thank
you
so
that
takes
us
to
agenda
agenda
items
seven
and
eight,
which
I
think.
Basically
we
can
run
together
the
the
terms
of
reference
of
the
inquiry
and
the
report.
That's
accompanied
it
just
as
a
quick
recap
for
those
who
haven't
attended,
who
didn't
attend.
The
first
meeting
the
number
of
people
killed
and
seriously
injured
on
our
streets
has
been
a
source
of
great
concern
to
the
scrutiny
board.
A
For
some
years
and
two
years
ago
we
agreed
that
we
would
actually
try
to
drill
down
more
deeply
into
those
figures
and
what
can
be
done
to
reverse
the
trend
we
waited
until
we
were
able
to
return
to
physical
meetings
before
doing
that.
A
But
basically
the
background
is
that
to
2010
the
figures
for
people
killed
and
seriously
injured
on
our
streets
were
declining
and
therefore
the
targets
that
were
set
reflected
that
downward
trend.
Unfortunately,
since
2010,
the
figures
have
worst
increased
and
at
best
plateau,
so
the
disparity
between
the
actuality
and
the
targets
that
were
set
for
improving
road
safety
has
got
wider
and
wider.
Obviously,
we,
I
think,
we're
all
aware
that
the
number
of
people
killed
and
seriously
injured
has
declined
during
the
pandemic
period.
A
We
also
had
some
reference
to
the
proposal
to
introduce
a
vision,
zero
approach
to
the
number
of
people
killed
and
seriously
injured
on
our
streets,
and
I
will
touch
upon
that
in
in
in
a
few
minutes,
but
as
part
of
our
inquiry,
we
felt
that
it
was
absolutely
crucial
to
hear
the
experiences
and
views
of
road
safety
campaigners
within
our
communities,
and
I
know
that
a
number
of
us
are
aware
that
some
of
those
campaigners
have
been
prompted
to
adopt
their
activity
as
a
result
of
the
tragic
loss
of
members
of
their
family
or
or
loved
ones,
and
I'm
sure
we
will
hear
more
of
that
in
a
few
minutes.
A
So
with
that,
I'm
going
to
introduce
our
I'm
going
to
ask
our
guests
to
introduce
themselves
and
then
we'll
move
into
the
discussion
of
the
issues.
So
I
think
I'm
going
to
let
councillor
shazad
and
hussein
introduce
themselves
because
they
didn't
get
that
opportunity
at
the
start
of
the
meeting.
So
mohammed.
H
G
H
Morning,
everybody
shouted
for
councillor
radio
version
from
gibson
and
hair
hills.
F
A
D
Hello,
I'm
jill
walshaw,
my
son,
matty
walshaw
was
killed
age
18
in
a
road
traffic
accident
in
2018
with
paula's
son
declan.
I
D
Good
morning
my
name
is
vicky
franks,
I'm
transport.
I
work
in
transport
strategy
as
a
safe,
seven,
sustainable
travel
team
leader
good
morning
lindsay
mcgarvey,
I'm
principal
transport
planner
in
the
influence
and
travel
behaviour
team
and
we're
working
on
vision,
zero.
L
Good
morning
nicholas,
hunt
traffic
engineering
manager
for
leads
to
council.
I
do
with
the
daily
today
inquiries
in
regards
to
road
safety
within
links.
M
G
A
Okay,
thanks
very
much
everyone
before
we
ask
our
campaigner
contributors,
I
thought
it
might
be
a
good
idea
very
briefly
to
ask
jillian
to
summarize
what
we
mean
by
or
pulling
rank
chief
highways
officer.
M
Thank
you,
chad.
I
think
I've
been
volunteered
to
do
this,
but
rather
yeah.
So
in
this
room
last
week
we
approved,
or
the
transport
strategy
for
the
council
was
approved
by
executive
board
and
a
very
important
part
of
that
transport
strategy
is
leads,
vision,
zero
and
just
to
remind
members.
M
The
aim
here
is
to
work
collaboratively
and
innovatively
to
ensure
that
by
2040,
no
one
is
killed
or
seriously
injured
on
the
roads
in
leeds
now,
if
you
think
of
where
we're
at
today
and
where
we
have
been,
that
is
a
very,
very
challenging
ambition,
but
I
think
it's
absolutely
right
that
we
should
have
that
ambition
and
it's
a
very
different
approach
to
the
one
that
we've
had
or
highway
authorities
have
had
over
many
years,
because
it's
looking
at
the
whole
system,
the
whole
process
of
of
what's
involved
with
road
safety,
and
it
requires
effectively
everybody
to
play
their
part.
M
It's
not
just
colleagues
in
the
police,
it's
not
just
my
colleagues
in
the
highways
and
transportation
services.
Sometimes
it
feels
when
you
read
some
of
the
emails
and
correspondence
that
it's
all
our
fault,
that
people
are
being
killed
and
injured.
On
the
roads,
this
is
about
encouraging
persuading
cajoling.
Whatever
word,
you
want
to
use
manufacturers
to
make
sure
that
designs
of
cars
are
right.
M
So
it's
asking
everybody
to
play
their
part
and
it
is
a
fundamental
change
and
approach
to
how
we're
going
about
things
and
it
it's
almost
it's
very
difficult.
It's
almost
impossible
to
get
that
change
of
approach
across
to
explain
it,
but
I
I
hope
it
gives
you
a
flavor
for
it,
but
it's
looking
at
safer
systems,
understanding
that
people
do
make
mistakes,
but
changing
the
way
things
are
done,
targeting
communications
and
operations,
but
just
recognizing
that
for
everyone
there
is
this
shared
responsibility.
M
Now
it
isn't
just
down
to
a
few:
it's
everybody
in
leads.
That's
over
800
000
people
will
have
to
play
their
part.
If
we're
gonna
get
anywhere
near
hitting
that
ambition,
so
it
will,
it
will
build
on
the
pillars
that
are
contained
within
vision,
zero
and,
ultimately,
our
transport
strategy
and
I'm
not
going
to
go
through
them
line
by
line,
but
I'm
just
going
to
call
the
titles
out
in
terms
of
safer
speeds,
safer
streets,
safer
vehicles,
safer
people,
safer,
behaviors
and
and
also
post
collision
response.
M
These
are
things
that
we'll
be
looking
at,
so
obviously
I
could
talk
for
much
longer
on
that
and
colleagues
could
as
well.
But
those
are
the
main
things
it's
just
to
stress
that
fundamental
shift
in
approach
that
everybody
has
to
play
their
part
to
work
towards
that
ambition,
so
I'll
leave
it
there.
I
hope
that
gives
you
a
flavor
for
what
we're
we're
talking
about
when
we
talk.
A
A
You
may
want
to
introduce
yourself,
but
I
first
met
you
in
a
couple
of
years
ago,
when
we
again
as
a
board,
were
discussing
the
annual
scrutiny
of
killed
and
seriously
injured
figures,
and
I
was
aware
of
his
role
as
a
campaigner,
but
also
the
academic
work
that
he's
done.
That
has
emanated
from
his
experience
as
an
individual
campaigner,
so
yeah
without
any
further
ado.
Would
you
like
to
make
your
presentation
to
us
and
I
think
ian
indicated
that
he
he
wanted
around
20
minutes?
K
Yeah,
no
pressure,
then
paul
sorry,
so,
good
morning,
everybody,
my
name
is
ian
greenwood.
I
I
have
two
hats
today.
My
hat
is
a
road
safety
campaigner
and
I
just
want
to
make
that
clear.
My
other
hat
is
a
as
a
researcher
institute
for
transport
studies
in
leeds
I'm
not
here
representing
them
today.
So
I
just
want
to
make
that
clear
before
I,
where
I
kick
off,
and
I
will
talk
at
you
for
about
15-20
minutes.
K
If
that's
okay
and
I
hope
paul's
writing
terms
I'm
worth
listening
to,
but
you
would
judge
me
I
guess
at
the
end
of
it,
so
I'm
really
pleased
to
be
here
this
morning
so
good
morning.
I
am
really
looking
forward
to
listening
to
your
deliberations
and
where
you
get
to
in
terms
of
the
work
of
this
committee,
I
think
that's
really
quite
important.
K
I'm
really
also
pleased
to
hear
the
introduction
in
terms
of
a
target
to
stop
killing
and
seriously
injuring
people
on
roads
in
leeds.
I
really
appreciate
this
opportunity.
I
know
it's
a
big
ask.
I
guess.
Listening
to
somebody
like
me,
you've
got
off
the
streets,
but
I
really
do
hope.
K
But
my
starting
point,
I'm
afraid,
is
that
we
could
do
a
lot
better,
both
across
west
yorkshire
and
adding
leeds
as
well
and
I'll
share
with
you.
Why
why?
I
think
that
this
morning
I've
suggested
three
questions
and
paul
was
happy
with
my
approach,
so
I
will
share
with
you
today
why
I
do
this.
Why
is
stopping
people
being
killed
and
seriously
injured
important
to
me
personally,
so
I
will
share
that
with
you.
K
I
also
want
to
look
backwards
because
I
really
do
think
that's
quite
important
in
terms
of
my
own
personal
experience.
I
accept
I'm
only
one
person
and
I
only
know
a
certain
amount,
so
there
may
be
loads
of
other
stuff.
That's
happening
that
I
don't
know
about,
but
I
will
share
with
you
my
experience
over
the
last
four
five
years
in
terms
of
trying
to
get
people
interested
in
road
safety.
K
K
So
why
do
I
do
this?
Why
am
I
sat
here?
Why
should
we
do
something
else?
Probably,
but
why
do
I
do
this?
Why
do
I
put
myself
through
this?
I
had
a
great
job
in
the
nhs
I've
been
there
for
30
odd
years.
I
had
a
great
pension
and
I
stopped
doing
that
and
I'm
going
to
tell
you
why
I
stopped
doing
that,
but
before
I
do
that,
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
am
going
to
tell
a
story-
that's
quite
difficult
to
hear.
K
So
if
anybody
needs
to
kind
of
nip
out,
then
I'm
looking
in
one
particular
direction,
then
I'm
quite
happy
with
that.
If
that's
okay,
anybody
else
as
well,
actually
so
becky's
going
to
show
you
my
first
slide.
I've
only
got
two.
So
don't
worry.
I
want
to
introduce
my
daughters
to
you
this
morning.
K
So
this
is
alice
and
clara
quite
dated
photographs
now,
but
you'll
understand
why
they're
dated
in
a
minute.
K
Okay.
So
I
want
to
take
you
back
to
2008,
where
my
life
completely
changed.
Five
young
drivers
decided
that
they
would
have
a
race
they'd
race,
each
other
at
night,
in
the
wet
at
speeds
in
excess
of
80
miles
an
hour,
overtaking
each
other
as
they
race
down
a
country
lane.
K
Oh
sorry,
country
road,
each
of
the
cars
had
passengers
who
were
egging
each
other
on
as
they
raced
down
the
road
to
go
faster
and
to
overtake,
and
we
know
that
from
the
texts
that
were
examined
by
the
police
investigation,
although
the
young
people
involved
decided
that
it
would
lie
about
that,
once
they
were
arrested
and
it
went
to
court
the
result
of
the
race
on
that
country.
Road
was
a
horrendous
crash.
K
K
K
Many
lives
were
devastated
as
a
result
and
something
that
still
happens
about
five
times
a
day.
Alice
died
just
before
her
13th
birthday
and
it
was
completely
avoidable
becky.
The
next
slide's,
not
very
nice,
to
look
at,
but
if
you
kind
of
would
say
the
second
side
becky,
please.
K
K
K
So
many
people
get
a
knock
on
the
door
from
the
police.
With
similar
news
every
single
day
I
received
a
phone
call
because
I
wasn't
at.
I
wasn't
traveling
I
was
at
home,
but
I
have
many
video
clips
in
my
head
of
what
happened
that
night
and
subsequently,
some
of
which
are
real,
some
of
which
are
imagined.
So
I
think
some
of
the
imagined
ones
are
probably
worse.
K
Many
are
of
nightmare
material,
but
one
that
stands
out
is
being
asked
to
identify
alice's
broken
body
which
a
dad
should
never
have
to
do
that
for
his
daughter.
So
I
share
this
not
for
group
therapy.
I've
had
lots
of
that
all
for
sympathy,
but
to
explain
my
motivation
in
doing
what
I
do
for
me.
This
is
real.
K
K
K
So
I'm
going
to
move
on
so
the
second
question
is
about
sharing
the
reaction.
I
got
when
asked
to
meet
local
leaders-
and
I
did
this
across
west
yorkshire
for
five
years
ago,
but
I
will
focus
on
on
leads.
Obviously
that's
when
I
started
to
campaign
it's
all
pre-covered,
so
it
seemed
to
me
with
my
experience
that
when
you
put
road
safety
at
the
top
of
letters
or
emails,
and
even
though
I've
described
my
story
as
I
have
shared
it
with
you
today,
I
got
a
real
mixed
bag
of
responses.
K
Some
people
were
great
and
were
prepared
to
meet
and
look
me
in
the
eye
and
talk
to
me
and
commit
time,
and
I
will
name
some
people
actually,
so
I
don't
want
to
embarrass
them,
but
I
probably
just
will,
for
example,
the
two
pauls
paul
jeffrey
porter
as
well.
People
like
tim,
kingsman
kim
groves
rachel,
reeves,
andrea
jenkins,
nick
hunt
who's.
K
Also
here
today,
other
people
refused
the
previous
police
and
crime
commissioner
and
his
team
and
the
chair
of
the
west
yorkshire,
road
safety
partnership
all
gave
me
time
and
committed
their
interest
in
what
I
had
to
say,
and
I'm
also
going
to
name
some
others
as
well,
I'm
afraid
so
for
others.
I
sometimes
release
some
nice
words.
I
sometimes
receive
platitudes.
K
Some
didn't
even
want
to
meet
me
and
some
didn't
even
bother
to
reply.
If
I'm
honest
and
I
was
generally
quite
shocked
in
some
of
the
reactions
I
got
so
these
included
all
my
all
my
counselors
in
round
hay,
my
own
mp,
the
director
of
public
health
here
in
the
council
and
the
previous
council
leader.
So
I
reflected
on
that
and
thought
having
done
a
busy
job
in
the
nhs
I
thought.
K
Well,
actually
these
people
are
really
busy-
it's
probably
not
the
top
of
everybody's
priority,
although
it
is
for
me,
so
why
should
they
commit
time
to
me?
I
thought
well,
okay,
you
can
kind
of
rationalize
that
you
can
kind
of
explain
that.
That's
fair
enough.
I
thought.
K
K
So
he
got
the
same
story
that
you've
got
this
morning
and
he
talked
to
me
about
cycling,
which
I
hadn't
mentioned,
and
he
said
he
would
write
to
the
home
secretary
which
confused
me,
because
I
didn't
know
why
he
was
writing
to
the
home
secretary,
but
he
wouldn't
meet
me
or
the
previous
council
leader
telling
me
that
she
was
taking
road
safety
really
seriously.
But
it
was
really
difficult
and
complicated
due
to
all
the
bureaucracy
and
the
combined
authority
was
taking
the
lead.
K
So
I'm
making
a
point
about
the
context
in
which
she
wrote
that
letter.
So
I
was
left
with
a
very
distinct
impression
that
some
organizations
were
looking
to
different
organizations.
Take
the
lead
and
the
responsibility
councils
telling
me
there
was
a
combined
authority
or
the
police.
The
combined
authority
telling
me
that
it
was
the
councils
who
had
the
statutory
duty.
K
I
think
it's
called
partnership,
not
working
and
all
I
wanted
some
honesty.
Actually.
All
I
wanted
was
some
action,
but
what
it
did
do
it
was
convinced
me
that
there
were
some
really
dedicated
people
around
the
patch
who
really
wanted
to
make
a
difference
and
others
who
just
made
excuses
or
ignored
me,
and
I
don't
like
being
ignored.
K
K
So
I
wanted
to
share
that
with
you,
because
it's
not
okay
to
ignore
road
safety.
I
was
really
pleased
paul
with
the
way
you
set
up
this
session
today.
I
think
the
language
you
chose
was
really
quite
important
and
it's
not
okay,
just
to
carry
on
counting
ksi's,
those
ksis,
alice
and
clara
and
and
others.
K
K
You
all
know
this,
but
there
are
many
other
impacts
as
well:
pressure
on
the
emergency
services
on
our
hospitals
and
primary
care
on
mental
health,
very
clear
links
to
crime,
anti-social,
behavior,
congestion,
people
being
put
off
walking
or
cycling.
I
will
cycle
down
round
a
hay
road
because
it's
just
far
too
dangerous
and
the
costs
of
taxpayers
and
businesses
upwards
of
36
billion
pounds
a
year.
K
So,
moving
on
to
question
three,
I
was
delighted
to
read
your
hugely
aspirational
transport
plan,
which
included
the
commitment
to
adopt
visions
here,
as
has
been
mentioned
already,
which
for
me
came
out
the
blue,
because
even
though
I've
been
engaging
with
lots
of
people,
not
one
single
person,
person
mentioned
that
work
was
happening
back
then
I've
just
reinforced
the
fact
that
this
is
pre-covered.
So
I
know
things
have
moved
on
a
lot
since
then.
K
I
think
this
is
really
positive.
I
think
it's
really
positive.
That
paul.
You
acknowledged
that
and
your
colleague
gary
recognized
that
we
need
a
very
significant
shift.
I'm
really
pleased
to
hear
that
today
and
I'm
also
really
pleased,
as
I
said
earlier,
that
there
is
a
published
timetable
on
which
you're
going
to
take
action
and
also
well
done
felice
we're
going
first
in
west
yorkshire,
so
in
the
email
chat
that
I
had
you've
asked
for
my
views
and
I
said
earlier
I'm
quite
happy
to
share
my
views.
K
So
the
term
vision
zero
can
received
a
mixed
reaction.
I've
I've
heard
this
quite
regularly
from
many
people.
It
often
comes
with
questions
about
the
reality
of
it
or
the
deliverability
of
it,
and
it
can
generate
quite
a
lot
of
skepticism
which
can
sometimes
get
in
the
way
of
what
we're
trying
to
achieve,
but
nevertheless
it's
implemented
success
successfully
in
many
other
places,
and
cities
like
oslo
and
helsinki
have
actually
achieved
vision,
zero,
not
in
2040,
but
today,
so
for
me,
branding
is
less
important.
K
What
is
important
so
sorry,
but
you've
already
decided
to
use
visual
zero.
So
I
guess
that's
that's.
K
What
you've
decided
to
do,
but
what's
more
important,
is
what
happens
now
for
me,
it's
about
offering
radical,
safe
systems
approach,
which
gary
talked
about
and
reducing
road
danger,
where
safety
is
at
the
center
of
everything
that
we
do
in
transport,
not
as
a
post
script
or
as
an
add-on,
and
excuse
me
for
me
that
sometimes
is
how
it
definitely
feels
so
since
alice
died
and
I
had
my
recovery
years,
I've
learnt
a
great
deal
about
reducing
vote
danger
and
I've
learned
that
it
is
incredibly
complex
and
very
complicated
and
quite
difficult
to
keep
up
with
and
there
are
different
competing
views
as
to
what
should
be
done.
K
So
I
I
I'm
a
pragmatist.
I
understand
that
and
I
accept
that
and
some
of
the
possible
solutions
that
you'll
debate
and
I'm
sure
you'll
debate
them,
because
there
are
different
views
and
the
consequences
of
those
potential
solutions.
I
watch
I'll
watch
with
interest
as
you
go
forward,
but
my
suggestion,
if
I
may,
is
that
you
keep
a
focus
on
why
this
work
is
important.
That's
that's
the
thing
I'd
ask
you
to
do
in
whatever
you
do
going
forward.
These
are
not
accidents.
K
As
your
transport
plan
states,
it
caused
an
accident.
They
are
mostly
preventable
crashes,
but
they
all
need
players
to
commit
to
invest
to
work
together.
Please
don't
blame
each
other
and
to
move
forward
to
move
from
those
nice
words
to
concrete
actions,
I'm
going
to
name
somebody
else,
I'm
afraid,
but
I
recently
met
alison
lowe,
and
I
was
very
optimistic
after
that
meeting
that
her
energy
and
her
fire
will
start
to
make
this
much
more
important
in
west
yorkshire
and
my
view
is
I'll
repeat
it.
It
hasn't
been
looking
backwards.
K
So
we
know
the
folk
in
west
yorkshire
regularly
identified
road
danger
as
a
major
issue,
and
I'd
suggest
that
we,
the
public,
don't
really
know
what
the
council's
doing-
and
I
am
someone
who
proactively
seeks
out
that
information
using
the
data
you
have
for
which
there
is
tons
because
I'm
immersed
in
it
in
my
other
job,
using
the
data
you
have
to
really
understand
the
complexities
is
really
very
important
about
casualty,
type
mode
place
peop.
That
is
really
quite
important.
K
It's
also
important
to
look
at
the
near
misses.
If
you
talk
to
colleagues
in
the
fire
brigade,
for
example,
they'll
tell
you
dodgy
roads
where
they
cut
out
a
lot
of
people,
but
nobody
actually
dies
seriously
injured.
We
don't
necessarily
take
notice
of
that
data
and
we
don't
publish
the
data,
but
why
not
it's
published
nationally,
but
it's
certainly
not
published
locally
and
for
me
transparency,
particularly
when
you're
so
off
with
your
own
target
in
leeds
it
builds
confidence.
K
I
know
it's
difficult.
I
work
for
the
nhs
for
30
odd
years,
trying
to
publish
dodgy
not
dodgy
trying
to
publish
failed
cancer
targets
is
not
a
good
place
to
be
in
so
I
know
it's
difficult.
I
know
when
you
have
scrutiny
it's
difficult,
but
it
will
probably
give
me
well.
It
definitely
would
give
me
much
more
confidence
and
probably
others
that
you're
taking
it
seriously
by
making
the
data
and
the
activity
a
much
more
public
and
been
honest
as
an
example.
K
The
scrutiny
paper
that
I
read
last
time
I
was
invited
here
mentions
the
reduction,
deaths
and
serious
injuries
in
2020,
but
not
the
previous
data
or
the
missed
council's
target
and
appears
to
celebrate
a
46
reduction,
and
we
all
know
the
data
for
2020
was
a
very
very
unusual
year,
so
some
would
say
to
me,
while
he
reading
that
paper
ian,
why
not?
He
complaining
there's
been
a
46
reduction,
we're
on
a
trajectory.
That's
really
positive.
Aren't
we,
but
that's
not
true.
K
Is
it
the
2020
data
throughout
lots
of
strange
things
nationally
and
only
focusing
on
one
year,
I
think,
is
misleading,
so
publishing
real
data
over
trajectories,
I
think,
is
really
very
important.
We've
not
fixed
this,
and
I'm
glad
paul
mentioned
that
in
the
introduction
here
today.
K
The
other
thing
and
I've
nearly
finished
a
couple
of
pages
left
is
community
engagement,
I
think,
is
critical,
as
problems
are
usually
understood
by
people
living
problem
areas.
They
know
where
the
dodgy
roads
are.
They
know
where
the
crashes
happen
and
whether
that's
resulted
in
a
death
or
a
serious
injury
that
the
local
people
know
there's
one
example
on
social
media.
K
Last
week-
and
I
don't
know
the
particular
road
where,
according
to
social
media-
and
we
know
what
social
media
is
like,
so
I'm
slightly
nervous
about
quoting
social
media,
but
a
specific
road
in
leeds
that
apparently
had
been
repeatedly
highlighted
over
many
many
years
and
not
acted
upon,
and
the
local
people
were
complaining
both
at
the
lack
of
action,
but
also
the
lack
of
communication
and
contact.
K
K
Someone
said
to
me
who
wasn't
from
leeds
actually,
but
she
couldn't
do
anything
about
any
of
the
crashes
in
her
local
authority,
because
they
were
all
different
and
they
came
with
difficult,
difficult.
I'm
sorry
different
circumstances
and
I'd
say,
and
I
said
to
her
just
because
it's
difficult
it
doesn't
mean
it's
an
excuse
not
to
try,
and
I
think
language
and
communication
is
also
important
to
local
folks
who
want
to
see
action.
K
They
want
to
be
able
to
send
their
child
to
school,
that
when
they're
walking
or
to
feel
safe
to
cycle,
but
they
don't
hear
enough
about
it.
We
don't
talk
about
road
death
and
serious
injury
and
language
such
as
preventing
death
and
serious
injury,
as
in
vision,
zero
and
addressing
road
danger
demonstrates
to
me
a
seriousness
of
a
commitment
to
be
proactive,
but
obviously
combined
with
very
serious
action
and,
as
I
said,
I'm
pleased
that
you've
got
to
the
place
you
have
as
a
local
authorities.
K
It
feels
that
it's
much
more
positive,
so
I
just
want
to
make
a
couple
of
other
points.
A
few
years
ago,
I
was
asked
paul
asked
me
to
speak
at
the
west.
Yorkshire,
road
safety
conference
for
all
those
cross-agency
who
were
trying
to
design
plans
at
local
authority
level
and
across
west
yorkshire
to
make
things
better.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
met
an
amazingly
committed
and
enthusiastic
group
of
people
in
that
room.
K
So
I'm
not
seeking
to
be
critical
on
any
of
those
people
who
do
this
is
their
profession.
This
is
their
day
job.
That's
not
where
my
criticism
lies,
and
I
think
it's
really
important.
I
made
that
point,
but
my
criticism
is
of
political
leaders,
I'm
afraid
who
have
previously
chosen
not
to
prioritize
this
area
across
west
yorkshire
and,
as
I've
said
earlier,
focus
on
partnership
not
working
fast
forward
to
now
after
the
worst
of
the
global
pandemic,
we'd
have
a
real
opportunity
to
move
everybody
forward
and
again
just
to
underline.
K
I
was
really
pleased
to
hear
the
introductory
way.
Paul
started
the
meeting
today.
K
So
yes
for
my
views
of
what
to
do-
and
I
don't
want
to
give
you
a
list
of
infrastructure
that
needs
fixing
or
speed
that
needs,
reducing
or
enforcement
needs
to
be
better
and
lots
of
other
things.
But
there
are
people
who
will
say
that
to
you
and
those
communities
are
right
right
to
do
that.
If
that's
what
their
views
are,
I
will
rely
on
the
experts
and-
and
I
think
they
should
be
tasked
with
reducing
road
danger
as
a
greater
priority.
K
When
I
asked
someone
senior
working
on
the
city
center
schemes,
why
wasn't
road
safety
mentioned
in
any
of
the
documents
that
I'd
read?
There
were
still
people
cycles,
taxes,
buses,
all
mixing
in
the
same
areas
even
after
the
schemes
are
completed.
K
One
person's
view-
I'm
just
repeating
it
last
page,
so
I'd
like
to
see
a
focus
on
porting
all
the
agencies
in
the
same
direction,
adopt
the
safe
system
approach
which
you've
talked
about,
which
includes
better
use
of
data
and
reducing
growth,
danger,
engage
with
local
people
who
want
to
help.
I
think
often
I've
not
run
to
the
media.
That's
not
what
I
think
will
make
a
difference
here,
share
what
you're
up
to
in
making
leads
safer
and
really
focus
on
fixing
this.
K
K
So
I
think
it's
really
time
to
commit
now
and
take
this
much
much
more
seriously.
It
needs
political
leadership
from
you
guys
and
he
needs
a
little
bit
of
bravery
again
from
you
guys,
and
I
look
forward
to
that
happening.
I
hope
it
happens
across
west
yorkshire
as
well.
I'm
pleased
leads
going
first
and
are
willing
to
be
a
critical
friend
along
that
journey.
If
that
is
of
use,
it's
too
late
for
alice.
A
You
thank
you
very
much
ian.
I
think
it's
impossible
on
a
on
a
human
level
not
to
be
moved
by
by
what
you've
said,
but
also
the
message
that
we
need
to
be
determined,
genuinely
determined
to
tackle
this
scourge
in
our
society,
and
I
think
it's
very
interesting
and
I
think
I
will
probably
agree
that
it
should
be
seen
as
a
public
health
issue,
and
I
don't
think
that
dimension
has
really
been
taken
into
account
in
the
past
explicitly
rather
than
just
implicitly,
I
don't
know
do
every
do.
K
Stage
and
just
to
say,
I'm
really
happy
to
answer
any
question
if
there
are
any
and
if
I
don't
want
to
I'll,
tell
you
but
ask
away
okay.
A
Could
I
ask
one
question
of
you
ian
and
probably
this
is
where,
in
your
academic
and
research
at
you've
mentioned
other
cities,
what
are
the
sort
of
key
initiatives
that
they've
taken
in
order
to
progress
to
that?
Much
more
advantage
advantageous
state
of
affairs
where
they
do
approach
a
vision,
zero
or
whatever
their
equivalent
is.
K
K
The
professionals
will
know
what
they
are
already
evidenced
back
back
30
40
years
in
terms
of
speed,
for
example,
it's
obvious
the
faster
you
go
if
you
hit
something
that
the
worse
it's
going
to
be
I
mean
some,
some
of
the
evidence
is
pretty
pretty
clear
and,
as
I
said
in
in
what
I've
shared
with
you
today,
I
I
think
it's
a
mistake
for
somebody
like
me,
who
comes
from
a
very
specific
perspective,
to
start
to
say
you
need
to
do
intervention
x
in
white
road
or
do
something
about.
K
Oh,
I
don't
know,
do
something
about
the
people
who
choose
to
speed
with
very
noisy
engines,
down
princess
avenue
at
two
o'clock
in
the
morning.
On
a
friday
and
saturday
I
mean
it's
easy
for
me
as
a
resident
to
have
a
moan
about
that,
but
that's
not
necessarily
the
priority
for
you
to
do
so.
I'm
not
going
to
answer
your
question
in
terms
of
what
interventions
need
to
happen.
What
I
would
say
it's
about
the
things
I've
talked
about
this
morning.
It's
about
leadership,
it's
about
commitment!
It's
about
you
guys!
All
saying
this
is
important.
K
Let's
not
whinge,
about
speed
cameras,
because
there's
a
huge
political
backlash
about
whether
speed
cameras
are
important
or
not.
Let's
actually
focus
on
the
people
like
alice,
like
clara,
like
others
who
have
actually
had
the
worst
outcome
and
the
direction
I
think
you're
now
setting
for
yourself
is
the
right
one
leadership
commitment.
K
I
want
to
see
resources
attached
to
that,
so
there
are
more
people
doing
this
part
of
their
day
job
and
if
you
look
at
places
like
well,
there's
a
scotland,
for
example,
it's
not
a
city,
but
scotland
is
doing
a
huge
amount
of
work.
I've
got
a
big
saying
when
I
worked
for
the
nhs,
which
was
r
d,
which
wasn't
research
and
development
is
rob
and
duplicate,
so
scotland
did
even
great
stuff.
London
are
doing
great
stuff.
Liverpool
are
doing
great
stuff.
K
A
F
First
of
all,
I
really
like
to
thank
everybody
for
the
opportunity
for
being
here.
I
think,
with
the
coverage
situation
and
one
thing
in
another:
it's
nice
to
see
everybody.
I
think
it's
great
to
have
the
representation
from
all
the
areas
as
well,
which
is
fabulous
so
a
little
bit
likey
and
I'm
going
to
take
you
back
to
go
forward,
but
I
won't
be
as
long
no
no
disrespect,
because
I
haven't
prepared
a
big
presentation
or
anything
like
that.
F
I
just
shoot
from
the
hip
and
speak
from
my
heart
and
that's
all
I
can
do
so.
My
son
was
19
years
old
and
he
was
killed
in
a
road
traffic
accident.
I
hate
the
word
accident
crash
in
horseforth
on
the
30th
of
june
2018.
F
He
was
in
a
car
with
four
of
his
best
friends,
kaelin
matsey
brandon
and
my
son
declan
there.
There
were
six
of
them
in
his
car,
silly
silly
silly
boys,
two
of
which
obviously
didn't
wouldn't
have
had
a
seat
belt
on,
so
they
were
traveling
five
minutes
from
a
party
home
literally
down
rodden
road
in
horsworth.
It
is
literally
five
minutes
from
that
party
to
home.
F
Within
that
five
minutes-
and
I
refer
to
five
minutes
a
lot
because
obviously
there'll
be
things
that
I've
been
doing-
that
actually
refer
to
the
five
minutes
and
they
were
speeding
up.
They
were
traveling
at
speed.
It
was
two
o'clock
in
the
morning
there
was
no
traffic
about
so
they
thought
they
had
gone
up
to
rodden
roundabout
gone
across
it.
The
lights
was
in
their
favor
and
green
and
they
shot
over
the
traffic
lights
passed
on
to
the
inner
ring
road
and
on
that
bend.
F
So
I
know
I
might
joke
of
that,
but
actually
it's
a
fact
they
could
not
have
there's
no
way
they
would
have
been
able
to
stop
that
accident
happening
because
they'd
lost
control
of
the
vehicle
because
of
the
weight
inside
it
take
responsibility.
For
that.
That's
what
we
know.
F
That's
the
fact,
so
they
were,
they
collided
head-on
with
the
taxi
driver,
who
was
traveling
at
30
miles
an
hour
on
his
way
home,
after
probably
a
very
heavy
shift,
and
he
was
probably
pushed
back,
probably
50,
60
meters
up
the
road
due
to
the
impact
of
the
the
collision,
the
the
car
was
then
turned
round
spun
the
other
way-
and
this
was
all
outside
bank
gardens
just
on
the
bottom
of
just
on
the
corner
of
broadway
in
horsford.
F
It
was
represented
well
on
sky
news
and
everywhere
else,
and
there
was
lots
of
people
wanting
to
get
interviews
from
us
and
one
thing
in
another.
F
But
what
I
will
say
is
you
know
I
shout
out
to
the
people
that
I
remember
and
will
always
remember,
and
for
me
it
was
our
police
liaison
team
without
them,
without
the
support
we
had
from
west
yorkshire
police.
At
that
time,
jill
will
agree.
F
We
you
know,
could
not
have
got
through
those
first
critical
days.
I
still
remember
the
morning,
so
we
I
was
woken
up
at
4
40
a.m.
The
accident
had
happened
about
2
30
in
the
morning
and
I
was
woken
up
at
4
40
by
a
knock
on
the
door.
The
dreaded
knock
that
you
get
and
somebody
asking
me
if
I
knew
somebody
who
drove
a
see
a
silver
sea
at
leon.
F
My
son
drove
he
drove
a
little
silver
corsa.
So
I'm
thinking
mother
got
the
wrong
car.
You
know
don't
know.
I
have
half
asleep
my
little
one,
who
was
10
at
the
time
was
fast
asleep.
My
daughter
who
was
older,
she
was
23
at
the
time,
was
fast
asleep
and
they
walked
in
and
just
explained
to
me
that
my
son
had
died
at
the
side
of
the
road
in
horsworth.
F
He
had,
it
was
death
on.
It
was
death
on
impact,
as
had
three
of
his
best
friends,
matty
brandon
and
caitlin
caitlin
was
thrown
out.
Well,
I
don't
know
how
to
explain
it
in
words,
but
he
was
exterior
to
the
car
out
the
front
out
the
windscreen
and
obviously
severed
from
the
steering
column.
F
The
two
girls
robin
had
lost
the
top
of
her
head,
so
part
of
her
skull
had
come
away
with
the
impact
of
the
car
and
polly
bless.
Her
had
had
her
seatbelt
on
and
walked
away
from
the
accident.
She
was
sat
at
the
side
of
the
road,
while
all
her
friends
were
in
this.
You
can
imagine
from
her
perspective,
how
difficult
that
was
trying
to
get
out
of
the
car
that
four
people
are
dead
in
and
one
that's
bleeding
profusely.
So
it
wasn't
a
pretty
pity
site
from
me
and
my
family.
F
So
I
look
at
the
family
we've
had
well,
I
suffer
with
ptsd.
I
don't
think
I'll
be
the
only
one.
I
have
touch
therapy
which
works
sometimes
and
not
others.
My
youngest
son
ended
up
through
social
services
having
counselling
and
continues
to
do
so.
This
is
now
three
years
on
and
he
still
is
impacted
by
it.
F
My
eldest
daughter
will
never
ever
well.
Does
you
know
what,
when
a
child?
No
matter
how
old
your
child
is,
I
I'm
his
mum
to
lose
somebody
who
you
bring
into
this
world.
It
just
doesn't
feel
right.
We
we
bring
our
children
in
for
them
to
see
us
out.
Not
the
other
way
around,
and
I
remember
somebody
saying
to
me:
have
you
got
insurance
and
did
you
have
his
life
insured?
You
know
when
he's
talking
about
funerals
and
things
like
that,
I'm
like
well,
no,
I
would
I
was
19.
I
wouldn't
you
know.
F
I've
got
insurance
for
me,
but
not
for
him,
and
that's
always
stuck
in
my
mind
that
who,
who
makes
provisions
for
the
kids
to
bury
them?
You
just
wouldn't,
would
you
so
anyway
so
moving
on
so
that
was
the
accident.
We
then
had
four
consecutive
funerals
there,
one
after
the
other
at
horsefest
at
margaret's.
F
There
was
massive
media
attention.
There
was
absolutely
you
know,
reporting
left
right
and
center,
but
ultimately
it
didn't
change
the
fact
that
we
lost
four
beautiful
boys
that
were
hard
working.
They
were
stupid
that
night
there's
no
getting
a
breath
around
it.
There's
three
years
on,
we
would
agree
that
that
is
there's
not
a
day.
Goes
by
that,
I'm
not
angry
with
him.
Still
I
told
him
off
then
and
I'll
tell
him
off
now.
F
You
know
I
should
never
have
gotten
that
bloody
car
had
they
made
a
decision
to
pay
five
quid
in
a
taxi.
Things
would
be
very
different,
but
we
are
three
years
on
so
what's
happened
since
then,
so
I've
been
in
touch
with
break.
I
have
worked
with
brick
and
done
a
lot
of
sharing
our
story
with
children
that
are
in
year
11
year,
12
just
about
to
start
their
driving
lessons.
F
I
do
feel
it's
this.
Maybe
I'm
not
pigeonholing
people
here,
but
the
young
male
drivers
do
have
a
lot
to
be
said
about
how
they
can
not
pay
a
bill
or
pay.
You
know
argue
with
us
over
paying
board
at
home,
but
yet
can
be
responsible
for
one
of
the
most
dangerous
vehicles
that
we
have
on
the
roads
that
we
we
work
on
and
that's,
okay,
we
give
them
the
keys
and
we
say
crack
on
there.
You
go,
but
you
don't
even
know
how
to
pay
your
mobile
phone
bill.
F
Mom
still
pays
that
dad
still
pays
that,
but
hey
her.
So
I've
done
some
work
with
horse
for
school.
I
have
done
lots
of
work
with
the
fire
crew
who
have
come
out
and
shown
children
at
year
11
year
12.
What
have
the
impact
has
in
these
accidents
and
what
that
equipment
looks
like
when
you're
actually
being
cut
out
of
a
vehicle?
That's
been
smashed
to
bits,
and
I
have
to
say
that
I
I
refer
to.
F
Should
we
not
just
get
a
taxi
instead
of
getting
in
the
car?
So
I
refer
to
five
minutes
a
lot
and
in
all
my
presentations
that
I
do
campaigning
wise.
That
is
what
I
always
ask
them
to
think
about.
Just
give
yourself
five
minutes.
Those
five
minutes
can
make
a
massive
difference
in
the
choices
that
we
make
and
the
decisions
and
the
consequences
that
we
face
so
that's
gone
on.
I
also,
then,
from
moving
that
on
slightly
we
moved
to
the
campaigning,
for
I
know
it's
an
inanimate
subject.
F
F
It
is
heavily
dense,
densely
populated
with
restaurants
and
bars
and
cafes,
and
all
that
you
can
go
fast
on
that
road,
really,
if
you
really
wanted
to,
but
there's
three
speed
cameras
on
there,
which
is
fabulous,
the
inner
ring
road,
which,
of
course,
is
known
to
west
georgia,
police,
which
they've
told
me
as
a
rabbit
run.
For
you
know,
illegal
crime
and
whatnot
traveling
through
has
seen
a
lot
a
lot
and
the
residents
in
horse
have
confirmed
it.
F
The
speeds
that
some
people
drive
on
that
road
is
ridiculous,
but
yet
there
is
no
sp,
there's
no
speed
camera.
I
was
offered
one
of
those
smiley
facey
things.
F
You
know
it
clocks
out
how
many,
how
fast
you
can
I'm
thinking
this
is
defeating
the
object
so
yeah
they
are
a
no-go,
but
I
suppose
what
I
would
like
the
council
to
think
about.
Is
you
know
if,
if
a
local
resident,
not
just
me,
because
I
as
ian
said
earlier
in
your
presentation,
it
was
very
easy
for
me
to
think
how
I
feel
as
a
mum.
You
know
this
is
my
son.
F
That's
died,
my
little
boy
that
I
brought
into
this
world
and
should
never
have
seen
him
go
out
of
it,
but
do
I
then
am
I
just
the
one.
That's
campaigning
for
things
that
make
me
feel
better
a
speed
camera.
Do
you
know
so?
Actually
I
asked
the
horse
with
community
and
I
did
a
poll
I
put
a
poll
out
through
social
media
and
I
had
four
thousand
responses
in
horsworth
alone.
That
said
they
were,
they
were.
F
I
was
asking
them
for
solutions,
as
you
asked
for,
and
I
said
you
know:
what's
the
solution,
is
it
extra
crossings?
Is
it
widening
the
road?
Is
it
speed
camera?
You
know,
you
tell
us
what
you
want
kind
of
thing
and
90
of
them
came
back
and
said:
speed
cameras
need
to
be
on
the
inner
ring
road
and
there
needs
to
be
a
a
maximum.
You
know
speed
limit
which
there
isn't
at
the
minute,
so
those
people
responded.
F
I
then
fed
that
information
back
into
jonathan
taylor,
who
I
have
to
say
jonathan
from
council
perspective.
You
are
just
wonderful,
I
don't
I'm
not
a
political
person
in
any
way,
shape
or
form,
but
stuart
and
jonathan
and
chris
calvert
from
the
local
council
team
in
hartsford
have
been
absolutely
fantastic
with
us
from
a
family
perspective
from
the
start
from
from
the
accident
happening
right
up
until
present
day,
they've
never
lost
contact
and
they've
never
lost
focus.
F
So
you
know
I've
been
lucky
in
that
sense
that
the
people
that
I
have
pitched
to
or
spoken
to
have
been
really
warm
about
it
and
the
police.
Again,
you
know,
even
the
police
liaison
team
that
I
still
have
now
three
years
on
will
still
help
me
out
in
any
questions
that
I
have
and
what
I
can
do
so
for
me.
It's
then
break.
I
do
work
with
break
charity.
I'm
willing!
F
That
might
sound
a
bit
bizarre,
but
it's
things
that
I
feel
strongly
about
and
I
can
make
a
difference
and
help
because
for
me
I
just
don't
want
one
more
fatality
in
my
local
area
or
in
leeds
across
west
yorkshire,
whatever,
because
a
statistic
is
just
a
number
on
a
piece
of
paper
but
as
you've
seen
today,
a
grave
is
something
we
visit
every
day
we
go
every
day.
We
never
get
away
from
that.
We've
got
the
pain
that
we
feel
every
minute
of
every
hour
of
every
day.
F
We
have
christmases
and
birthdays
and
all
those
dreaded
days
that
you
put
a
smile
on
your
face
for
for
the
kids
that
you
have
still
in
your
household,
but
you
know
I
want
you
to
really
think
I'll
get
behind
whatever
you
need,
whatever
we
can
do
from
a
local
perspective,
will
do
and
I'm
only
one
voice,
but
I've
got
a
lot
of
people
voices
behind
me.
F
A
F
Hi
five
o'clock
in
the
morning
I.
D
Got
the
the
knock
on
the
door?
You
see,
films,
you
read.
F
A
It's
just
one
element,
but
nevertheless
it's
a
very
important
one.
So
maybe
that's
something
for
officers
to
take
away
as
to
how
we
might
do
that
film
youtube
something
on
social
media.
I
think
it
would
be
a
pity
if
we
didn't
capture
the
experiences
that
have
been
shared
with
us
and
the
lessons
to
be
learned
from
them.
E
Thank
you
cher,
and
I
I
agree,
but
first
of
all
it's
been
incredibly
difficult.
I
think
for
us
all
to
hear
what's
what's
been
said
this
morning,
and
if
it
was
difficult
for
us
to
hear
it,
it's
unimaginable
how
it
is
for
you
to
have
and
continue
to
live
through
it.
I
I
think
it's
important
that
we've
heard
both
both
sort
of
aspects
of
of
when
these
accidents
or
crashes
happen.
That
they're,
you
know-
and
I
think
paul
is
right.
E
I
don't
think
I've
got
any
specific
question
or
anything
it's
I
think
we
we
do
need
to
hear
about
how
officers
are
going
to
respond
to
this,
and
I
think
we
need
to
come
away
from
this,
making
some
real,
solid
recommendations
that
we
can
monitor
and
take
forward,
but
yeah
it's
an
incredibly
difficult
morning,
and
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
for
coming
along
to
to
share
your
experiences
with
us.
So
thank
you.
M
You
chair,
I
just
echo
councillor
taylor's
comments,
really
it's
very
powerful
what
we've
heard
this
morning,
so
I
thank
you
all
for
that.
M
M
He
borrows
his
mom's
car
with
permission
but
yeah.
It
friends
me
to
death
because
of
what
I've
seen
I
I
and
colleagues
along
this
table
have
been
to
coroner's
inquiries
into
fatal
accident,
fatal
collisions.
Sorry
and
it's
horrendous
so
and
I
lost
a
friend
when
I
was
at
school
and
I
to
this
day
I
can
still
see
her
family
and
versus
kids
going
to
that
funeral.
M
But,
as
councilman
taylor
said,
I
can't
imagine
what
the
three
of
you
have
gone
through,
but
I've
I
do
feel
it
and,
if
anything,
the
the
passion
or
the
commitment
that
I
and
the
team
have.
I
hope
that
comes
through
and
I'm
grateful
for
ian's
comments
about
vision,
zero
being
adopted
by
leeds.
M
M
The
the
department
for
transport
have
seen
the
transport
policy
and
say
it's
one
of
the
best
in
the
country,
if
not
the
best
in
the
country.
So,
as
I
say,
there's
an
environment
here
where
we
can
move
this
forward,
and
I
would
I
would
say
this:
wouldn't
I.
But
given
what
I've
heard
this
morning,
I
would
like
leeds
to
be
first
for
a
whole
series
of
reasons
and
there's
no
reason
why
we
shouldn't
be.
But
I
I
go
back
to
what
I
said
at
the
beginning
this
session.
M
It
does
require
every
member
of
society
to
play
a
role
we
as
a
service,
there's
a
commitment
from
the
team
that
we
will
do
what
we
can.
But
resources
are
limited.
I
do
have
to
say
that
we
can't
do
it
all,
but
they
are
very
passionate
and
enthusiastic
about
what
they
do
and
if
they
can
help
they
will
help
and
if
they
can't
help,
there
are
good
reasons
why
they
can't
and
it's
not
because
they're
just
being
difficult
for
the
sake
of
it.
It's
because
there
are
some
guidelines
somewhere.
M
M
So
it's
how
we,
how
we
move
forward
with
that,
and
I
I
think
there
are
multiple
elements
to
it.
I
do
think
behavioral
change
is
right
at
the
heart
of
this.
I
think
we've
done
a
lot
of
engineering
over
the
years
and
I
think
the
police
have
done
an
enormous
amount
of
enforcement
over
the
years.
But
it's
how?
M
Another
time
another
place
and
you
I
might
not
be
sat
here
so
there's
transport
planning
we've
seen
through
covid
with
traffic
flows
reduced
and
the
cycle
lanes
and
the
extended
footwear
we've
put
in
and
if
you
came
in
this
morning
on
in
the
peak
hour
as
I
did,
there's
hardly
any
traffic
about
is
half
term
and
it
feels
a
completely
different
place
to
what
it
was
18
months
ago
that
you
know.
18
months
ago
I
was
queued
on
the
motorway
to
access
the
temple
green
park
and
ride.
M
Virtually
there
were
two
cars
at
a
junction
today
and
the
rest
of
east
leeds
link
road
to
temple.
Green
was
empty,
so
there's
an
opportunity
here,
but
and
members.
You
will
feel
this
and
I'm
sorry
for
going
on,
but
I
do
feel
passionate
about
this
when
we
do
introduce
collectively
things
like
20
mile,
an
hour,
speed
limits
or
low
traffic
neighborhoods
as
we
have
done.
M
But
we've
got
a
lot
of
work
to
do
so
I'll
end
on
by
the
one
thing:
I've
an
active
thing:
I've
taken
out
of
this
or
two
things.
We
I'm
informed
that
we
do
publish
some
of
the
data
on
what's
called
data
mill
north,
but
I
think
it's
a
bit
out
of
date.
M
I
think
the
last
that's
that
I've
just
seen
of
2019,
so
we
must
make
sure
that's
up
to
date
and
we
must
make
sure
that
people
understand
where
that
can
be
found,
because
I've
got
no
problem
in
in
information
being
circulated,
because
if
it
aids
a
debate,
then
let's
have
it
and
if
I
get
a
difficult
meeting,
fine
that
that's
how
it
should
be.
I've
got
no
problem
about
constructive
meetings
and
challenges,
and
in
that
context
final
comment
from
me.
M
The
transport
planning
work
has
been
informed
by
an
expert
panel
of
transport
people
from
across
the
country
to
drive
it
to
its
where
it's
got
to
I'm
just
picking
up
on
ian's
comment.
I
just
wondered
if
an
expert
panel
for
vision,
zero,
perhaps
with
members
from
today
actually
sitting
on
that-
might
be
something
that
the
executive
board
might
want
to
consider
going
forward.
So
we're
set
to
come
back
to
executive
board.
I
believe
in
december
for
vision,
zero
and
I've
just
said
to
jillian
in
the
sort
of
margins
of
this
meeting.
M
Maybe
that's
a
recommendation
that
we
bring
forward
as
a
direct
action
from
what
I've
heard
today
and
I'm
happy
to
discuss
that
further,
clearly
with
councillor
hayden
when
I
see
her
next
but
and
obviously
around
this
table
today.
But
thank
you
chair.
I'm
really
pleased
I
came
this
morning
and
to
hear
what
I've
heard.
Thank
you.
A
Thanks
very
much
for
gary
for
that
gary.
Obviously,
what
we
normally
do
is
take
evidence,
point
of
a
better
description
and
then
draw
up
an
enquiry
report
with
a
set
of
recommendations,
but
I
see
no
reason
why
we
can't
strike
while
the
iron
is
hot
and
pursue
your
point
and
make
that
recommendation
as
a
board
at
an
early
stage,
so
that
the
participation
of
people
who
are
able
to
bring
that
dimension
that
we've
heard
today
to
the
table
is
in
included.
A
So
I
just
wonder
I'm
kind
of
making
a
recommendation
on
the
hoof
to
members,
but
I
can't
imagine
that
anyone
would
object
to
that.
So
can
we
can
we
minute
that
we
we
make
that
recommendation
immediately?
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
we
can
say
as
a
board
is
that,
although
we're
not
an
executive
decision-making
body,
we
can
make
recommendations
and
we
can
act
as
a
spur
to
those
who
make
decisions
across
the
board
and
that
we
will
continue
to
revisit
this
issue.
A
This
is
not
just
a
one-off
producer
document
produce
a
report
produce
a
set
of
recommendations,
then
pat
ourselves,
on
the
back.
We
follow
through
we'll
continue
to
do
that,
and
I
dare
say
in
future
the
board
or
its
future
iterations
will
be
inviting
you
you
all
back
for
your
further
contributions
and
responses.
A
I
think
one
of
the
points
that
that
you
made
paul
that
we
did
taking
you
know
cognizance
of
our
last
meeting
was
the
need,
maybe
for
greater
community
involvement
and
possibly
greater
community
involvement
on
a
more
structured
basis,
rather
than
waiting
for
a
tragic
incident.
If
I
can
express
it
in
that
way
to
occur
before
we,
we
start
talking
to
local
people
about
about
their
concerns.
B
Really
difficult
morning,
I
think
a
lot
of
us
and
excuse
me.
I
would
like
to
thank
paulo
and
julian
ian
for
for
coming
along
and
speaking
as
they
did,
and
I
think
the
important
you
know
the
the
one
message,
a
message
we've
got
to
take
away
from
this
is
we
sit
here
today?
B
They
moved
and
and
feelings
sort
of
something's
got
to
be
done.
What
we
haven't
got
to
do
is
sort
of
move
on
to
the
next
bit
of
business,
and
this
just
becomes
another
piece
of
business.
We've
dealt
with
it's
going
to
be
something
we've
got
to
take
forward
and
get
committed
to,
and
I
think
we
are,
I
I
I
think,
the
some
of
the
things
that
came
out
in
in
the
various
presentations.
B
I
just
like
to
comment
on
if
I
can
just
might
sort
of
guide
some
recommendations
or
whatever,
but
I
think
sort
of
the
branding
and
the
what
we
call
stuff
is
very
important
and
I
think
road
safety
just
that
expression,
road
safety
doesn't
actually
say
what
it's
about
or
what
we
understand.
What
it's
about.
You
know
when
I
think
of
road
safety.
B
I
think
of
you
know
telling
my
kids
how
to
look
right
and
look
left
and
the
lollipop,
lady
and
and
whatever
it
was
the
club
with
the
little
furry
animals
that
was
road
safety.
It's
something
a
bit
soft
and
fluffy.
It's
not
hard
edge,
like
you
just
described
what
real
road
safety
is
about,
and
I
think
brandon
is
therefore
important,
because
I
think
it's
only
recently
that
we've
sort
of
looked
at
where
road
safety
sits
in
a
responsibility
piece
I
used
to
be
before
I
was
on
this
board.
B
I've
only
been
on
this
board
this
season,
but
before
I
was
on
this
board,
I
was
I
was
on
the
communities
and
environment
and
council
at
anderson
and
road
safety
was
a
line
in
the
community
safety
plan,
and
we
said
well
that
can
we
sort
of
is
that
right
and-
and
I
think
it's
now
here
and
getting
the
focus
it
needs
here,
but
it
just
didn't
have
that
that
that
priority.
B
So
I
think,
perhaps
if
we
start
referring
more
to
vision,
zero
or
something
like
that,
rather
than
road
safety
that
becomes
a
better,
a
a
better
branding
for
one
of
a
better
world
about
better
label
for
it.
I
was
also
interested
in
the
comments
about
how
it
gets
a
priority,
and
sometimes
the
funding
does
set
the
priority.
B
I
was
reading
a
paper
only
last
night.
It
was
it
was
about
the
new
schemes,
some
of
the
new
schemes
in
leeds,
and
it
was
well.
This
has
got
safety
money
in
it.
He's
got
road
safety
money
in
it.
So
we
designed
something
that's
road
safety,
but
something
else
is
about
congestion,
so
we
design
it
to
reduce
congestion,
and
it's
this
you
get
so
much
in
in
bureaucracy,
these
silos
that
don't
actually
and
you
don't
get
the
cross
connection
and
something
like
road
safety.
I
would
have
thought
any
scheme
should
have
road
safety
money.
B
You
know
that
that
should
be
part,
that's
actually
part
of
it
or
I'm
using
the
word
row
safety,
but
we
know
what
I
mean.
So
I
think
that's
an
important
one
to
look
at
now.
It's
probably
not
something
that
we
can
do
as
a
council,
but
it's
perhaps
something
we
could
do
as
a
lobbying
activity
to
to
the
combined
authority
and
to
to
government-
and
I
I
I
won't
go
on
too
much
now,
but
the
other
important
thing
I
think,
was
sort
of
the
community
engagement
as
as
local
councillors.
B
We
know
from
our
residents
where
the
hazards
are
where
the
worry
is,
where
the
concern
is
and
one
of
the
frequent
questions
that
when
someone
comes
to
us
and
says
this
is
a
really
bad
road,
it's
speeded
up.
We
take
it
to
highways,
and
this
is
no
criticism
of
gary,
because
I
know
he's
looking
into
this,
but
we
take
it
to
highways
and
they
say:
oh
well,
there
hasn't
been
any
accidents.
There's
no
ksi's
are
around
that
street.
B
So
you
know
it's
not
a
priority
and
you
go
back
to
the
the
the
community.
You
go
back
to
your
residence
on
this
and
they
say
well.
Have
we
got
to
wait
till
someone
is
killed
before
you'll?
Do
anything
and
the
answer
starkly
is
yes,
that's
the
way.
That's
the
way
the
system
works
at
the
moment.
It's
this
accident
waiting
to
happen,
but
it's
the
local
community.
B
That
knows
that
knows
the
potential
and
can
identify
sometimes
not
always
can't
always
identify
the
the
right
solution
to
it,
but
can
at
least
identify
the
problem,
and
I
think
we've
got
to
be
taking
that
a
lot
more
seriously.
B
You
know,
and
I
hope
vision,
zero
does
turn
that
approach
on
its
head,
but
it
doesn't
say
well
wait,
but
again
it's
about
criteria,
the
criteria
for
speed
cameras.
We
we
know
that
we
had
a
discussion
about
that
at
the
last
meeting,
the
criteria
of
pedestrian
crossings.
All
these
things
are
based
on.
B
Well,
what's
happened
in
the
past.
Has
it
so,
I
think
that's
something
we
really
do
have
to
to
look
at
and,
and
the
community
engagement
piece
on
that
is
is
important.
I'll
stop
talking
now,
because
I
think
that's
probably
said
enough,
but
again
it
I,
I
think
you
know
this
is
probably
I
I've
been
accounted
for
10
years,
and
this
is
probably
the
most
important
scrutiny
I've
I've
sat
on
and
the
one
that
I
really
want
to
make
sure
that
we
we
we
do
achieve
something
sure.
Thank
you.
A
You've
got
to
summit,
to
some
extent,
ignore
certain
lobbies
in
order
to
achieve
those,
you
know
those
outcomes
that
you
want-
and
I
know
from
my
years
and
I'm
sure
this
is
true
of
a
number
of
people
sitting
around
this
table-
that
yes,
there
is
a
polarization
and
all
too
often
it's
easy
to
cave
into.
Those
who
say
that
speed
cameras
and
traffic
calming
and
various
other
measures
are
anti-motorists,
but
actually
they're
necessary.
A
If
do
we
to
tackle
this,
and
I'm
gonna
come
now
continue
to
use
the
term
public
health
crisis,
and
I
think
that's,
I
think,
that's
very
important.
I
think
again
we
can
structure
what
we
do
locally,
I'm
not
going
to
suggest
on
the
hoof
at
this
stage
that
we
can
do
local
analysis
and
local
audits,
but
that
might
be
one
thing
that
might
come
out
of
it
through
community
committees
and
through
community
engagement
and
neighbourhood
engagement.
A
So
you
know,
I
think,
that's
something
that
we
as
politicians
with
a
large
as
well
as
a
small
p,
have
got
to
grasp
and
not
not
use
this
label
of
being
anti-motorist
or
anti-car
when
we're
taking
serious
decisions
that
might
alienate
some
sections
of
the
community
who
have
votes
in
large
numbers
can't
put
it
that
way,
but
I
don't
know:
does
anyone
want
to
come
back
further,
our
police,
colleagues
or
or
paul
on
some
of
the
things
that
we've
discussed
and
that
have
been
raised.
N
I
think
the
the
conversation
this
morning
has
really
highlighted
where
we're
going
compared
to
where
we've
been
the
whole
safer
roads
agenda
has
historically
been
very
much
driven
by
learning
from
somebody
else's
misfortune.
We've
waited
for
somebody
to
be
involved
in
a
collision
or
accident
as
we
used
to
turn
it
or
be
killed,
and
then
the
huge
machine
that
is
the
public
sector,
if
you
like,
has
merged
into
action,
and
we've
done
something
about
that
junction.
We've
done
something
a
bit
more
about
enforcement
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
N
What
gary
described
this
morning
in
terms
of
where
we're
heading
in
terms
of
vision,
zero
and
I
think
it's
worth
seeing
my
remits
right
across
west
yorkshire.
The
current
rule
that
I
undertake
leeds
is
very
much
spearheading
the
adoption
of
vision,
zero
and
the
safe
systems,
principles
that
are
enshrined
within
it,
where
we're
going
under
that
model
is
very
much
looking
at
the
whole
system.
Our
aim
collectively
is
to
achieve
safe
mobility.
N
We
want
people
to
be
able
to
go
from
a
to
b
about
the
daily
business,
go
to
work
and
use
vehicles
or
other
forms
of
transport
safely
to
enjoy
life
that
that's
our
mission.
It
sounds
really
simple,
but
there
are
so
many
stakeholders
in
achieving
that,
and
there
are
so
many
facets
to
it:
everything
from
the
fabric
of
the
roads
that
vehicles
are
driven
on
or
ridden
on
to
a
lanes,
speed
enforcement,
the
design
of
junctions
so
on
and
so
forth.
So
what
is
a
very
simple
mission.
N
Is
a
massive
feat
of
coordination
across
all
these
stakeholders
to
ensure
that
we're
not
just
thinking
about
rectifying
mistakes,
we're
actually
thinking
about
preventing
where
we
possibly
can
mistakes
happening
that
lead
to
injury
and
also
building
into
this
equation,
the
human
factor,
which
is
an
acknowledgement
that
mistakes
do
get
made,
and
we
have
to
at
that
point
in
this
forward-looking,
preventative,
proactive
mode
that
we
are
now
embarking
on,
ensure
that
we
increase
the
chances
of
somebody
surviving
when
they
do
make
a
mistake.
N
N
There
are
many
other
facets
to
it,
and
what
we
need
to
do
is
not
develop
tunnel
vision
around
the
work
that
we're
undertaking.
We
need
to
look
at
a
range
of
solutions
for
different
settings.
We
need
to
look
at
changing
behaviors
as
much
as
physical
attributes
of
the
roads
that
we
we're
actually
using.
N
N
N
N
As
council
truswell
said
earlier,
on,
speed
cameras
do
polarize
public
opinion
and
political
opinion
if
the
camera
partnership,
which
manages
collectively
the
deployment
of
speed
cameras,
the
yellow
boxes
on
the
roadside
and
the
mobile
speed
vans.
If
they
have
their
way,
we
will
be
much
more
flexible
in
our
approach
to
locating
cameras
and
that's
a
commitment
not
just
from
the
police,
but
also
from
the
local
authority
representatives.
My
colleague
nick
hunt
sat
around
the
table
here.
We
are
very
much
on
the
same
page
now,
we've
labored
under
some
quite
restrictive
national
guidance.
N
Now
very
often,
when
you
put
what
we
call
a
spot
speed
camera
in
a
location,
people
become
very
familiar
with
the
location
of
that
camera
and
they
will
do
what
we
refer
to
as
camera
surf,
they'll
travel
at
a
normal
speed
and
then
basically
put
the
brakes
on
when
they're
on
the
approach
to
a
camera
and
then
accelerate
away
when
they're.
Beyond
that
camera's
reach
average
speed
cameras.
N
The
technology
is
out
there
to
actually
cover
significant
lengths
of
road
with
that
technology,
and
that
has
a
much
broader
effect,
a
much
more
widespread
effect
in
terms
of
reducing
the
mean
speeds
that
we
experience
on
suitable
lengths
of
roads.
So
that's
again,
another
area
of
development
that
particularly
leads
but
the
other
west
yorkshire
local
authorities
are
keen
to
explore.
N
These
are
expensive
assets
and
I
won't
deny
that
we
have
to
take
into
account
the
cost
of
putting
one
camera
in
in
a
location.
You
know
an
installation
will
cost
in
the
region
of
30
000
pounds
per
camera,
and
then
we
have
to
think
about
the
infrastructure
that
sits
behind
that
to
process
the
offences
that
are
generated.
N
I
joined
the
police
in
1986..
I've
done
that
5
a.m.
Door
knock
and
spoke
to
families
in
situations
that
you
have
suddenly
experienced
every
one
of
my
professional
experiences
in
that
vein
makes
me
more
committed
to
prevent
this
happening
to
anybody
else,
and
I
make
no
apologies
for
saying
I
have
no
fear
of
extending
the
reach
of
enforcement.
If
that's
the
way,
we
need
to
go
in
terms
of
casualty
prevention
in
west
yorkshire,
and
this
isn't
just
paul
jeffrey's
view.
N
N
I
am
confident
that
we
will
shape
the
national
deployment
criteria
that
the
dft
are
working
on
at
the
moment
in
conjunction
with
people
like
myself,
and
that
we
will
get
greater
flexibility
and
because
that's
what
we
need
to
do.
Thank
you.
A
Thanks
very
much
paul,
I
would
say
that
at
our
previous
meeting
the
board
was
very
attracted
by
the
notion
of
average
speed
cameras,
because
we
all
have
experienced
a
rapid
acceleration
to
cameras,
the
heavy
braking
and
the
rapid
acceleration
away
and,
to
some
extent
you
know
it's
undermined
the
value,
but
average
speed
cameras
seem
to
be
the
way
forward
in
terms
of
deployment
as
well
as
mobile
speed
cameras,
some
flexibility
over
their
deployment,
maybe
on
an
ad
hoc
basis.
I
know
we'd
be
welcome
in
many
communities.
N
C
Yes,
thank
you
chair
and
I
think
we're
all
going
to
say
the
same
thing
in
terms
of
ian
and
paul
and
jill,
and
thank
you
for
telling
telling
us
the
stories
of
what
happened
to
you.
C
It's
a
long
time
ago
now,
but
nevertheless
I
think,
as
paul
in
particular
said
andy
and
jill,
it
doesn't
go
away.
C
C
C
I
was
lucky
or
whatever,
and
I
can
think
of
a
couple
of
things
as
a
driver
and
as
a
passenger
and
bearing
that
in
mind.
I
know
I
was
quite
keen
on
driving
and
I
ended
up
doing
a
lot
of
driving
in
my
life.
But
when
I
was
in
my
20s,
I
took
the
advanced
driving
test
which
I
enjoyed
and
it
kind
of
treated
you
not
only
as
an
adult.
C
But
as
somebody
who
wanted
to
learn
about
driving-
and
you
don't
hear
about
it
much
and
I
just
wonder
whether
that
kind
of
thing
could
draw
young
men
in
they
like
driving
they're
like
a
bit
of
speed,
sometimes
within
reason.
But
if
they're
in
control
and
proper
control
and
know
what
they're
actually
doing
in
a
motor
vehicle.
Is
that
something
which
could
be
harnessed
now
and
made
a
bit
more
of.
G
One
option
amongst
many,
I
think,
is
fair
to
say
I
think,
and
again
thanks
to
paula
jill
and
ian
for
their
accounts.
This
morning,
I
think,
with
all
due
acknowledgement
to
your
acknowledgement
of
the
service
that
you
received,
but
also
how
you
could
see
it
improving
in
the
future.
I
think
that's
been
well
and
truly
noted
this
morning.
So
thank
you
for
it's
clearly,
a
really
difficult
account
to
provide
paul
mentioned
options,
and
it's
really
hard
for
police
officers
not
to
lapse
into
police
speak
because
everybody
starts
to
switch
off.
G
We
get
very
technical,
so
we
have
to
try
and
keep
it
in
sensible
language.
But
it's
one
option
and
I
think
my
personal
view
on
this
as
ed
chester's
is:
if
these
deaths
were
being
caused
by
firearms,
then
we
would
be
resolving
it
far
far
far
quicker
than
we
we
possibly
are
at
the
moment.
G
I
know
because
part
of
my
wider
role
is
helping
prepare
the
response
to,
for
example,
and,
god
forbid
ever
happens
and
marauding
terrorist
attacking
leeds
or
elsewhere
in
west
yorkshire,
but
I
know
that
we
have
tried
and
tested
methodologies
for
ensuring
that
we
respond
in
the
right
way
to
that
and
negate
the
harm
as
quickly
as
we
can,
but
the
principles
and
the
way
we
approach
that
are
equally
applicable
in
preventing
road
death.
G
The
principles
are
sound.
The
principles
work.
The
principles
are
the
same,
but
more
prudently
in
the
respect
of
road
death.
It
demands
the
equal
participation
of
everybody,
so
police,
other
emergency
services,
other
public
agencies,
the
public
themselves,
media
political
leadership,
as
we
seek
to
solve
the
problems
and
prevent
the
tragedies
that
we've
heard
about
this
morning
enforcement
intervention
diversion
they
are
all
tactical
options,
as
we
would
call
them
within
a
wide
range
of
activity.
G
G
But,
as
we've
already
heard
this
morning,
there
is
an
imminent
change
of
leadership
around
that
I
mean
your
point
about.
Leadership
is
absolutely
crucial
here,
so
there
is
an
imminent
change
of
leadership
there,
which
we
fully
support
and
I'm
personally
quite
enthused
by
the
direction,
the
clear
direction
that
I'm
hopeful
we
will
start
moving
in
in
the
very
near
future.
G
I
can
get
into
a
lot
of
practicalities
in
police
language,
about
the
methodology
to
resolving
this
that
we've
I've
already
alluded
to,
I'm
not
sure
to
share
whether
the
panel
has
the
time
or
the
capacity
to
hear
that
this
morning,
but
I
would
seek
to
give
reassurances
that
we
do
have
methodologies
that
work,
but
it
does
demand
the
equal
participation
of
everybody
in
this
particular
instance.
G
N
No,
the
institute
of
advanced
militarists
are
very
much
alive
and
kicking.
There
are
various
schemes
regionally
and
nationally,
which
do
offer
pre-17
driver
training,
but
there's
one
run
talk
within
in
north
yorkshire
for
aspiring
drivers,
and
then
it
essentially
gives
them
the
right
skills
before
they're,
actually
able
to
to
drive
legally
on
a
road.
N
I
think
at
the
forefront
of
my
mind
is
that
you
tend
to
attract
the
people
that
you're
likely
to
attract
on
those
schemes,
it's
very,
very
difficult
to
make
that
attractive
to
to
somebody
who
isn't
inclined
to
to
do
it
anyway.
If
you
understand
my
meaning
now,
I
think
young
person
driver
training,
be
it
advanced
or
otherwise
does
have
a
part
to
play.
Do
I
think
it
will
reach
the
masses
in
reality?
No,
I
don't.
That
will
be
my
answer
in
show.
K
We
had
a
debate
about
graduated
driving
license,
which
is
offering
support
to
young
drivers
as
they
start
their
driving
career,
that
the
transport
committee
and
the
government
decided
wasn't
a
good
idea
in
britain,
even
though
it
works
very
effectively
in
canada,
new
zealand,
australia,
lots
of
states
in
america
lots
of
places.
There
was
a
very
political
debate
about
stopping
young
drivers
driving
so
one
of
the
positive
things
in
a
very
depressing
debate
that
happened
in
parliament.
I
was
actually
going
to
blow
my
own
trumpet
here,
but
I
was
actually
speaking
to
that
committee.
K
At
that
time
they
weren't
interested
in
what
I
had
to
say
and
decided
that
it
wasn't
a
good
idea.
The
good
thing
is:
there's
a
multi-million
pound
research
program
called
driver
2020,
which
starts
to
address
some
of
the
questions
that
neil's
asking
in
terms
of
is
advanced
driving.
Is
restrictions?
Is
the
black
box?
K
Are
they
appropriate
things
to
start
to
address
and
support
young
drivers?
It's
not
going
to
report
until
2023.
Unfortunately,
so
88
people
died
in
2019
young
drivers,
most
of
which
80
were
blokes
and
so
we're
not
picking
on
them.
That's
just
what
the
data
tells
us.
E
Thank
you
chair,
and
I
think
going
on
from
that
and
I'm
pleased
paul
that
you've
sort
of
expanded
on
what
you
were
saying
to
our
last
session
on
on
speed
cameras,
because
I've
written
down
some
some
points
here,
which
I
think
you
know
is
what's
coming
together
towards
some
recommendations
about
more
education,
more
engagement,
looking
at
a
proactive
approach
at
things
instead
of
a
reactive
approach,
but
I
think
it
was
councillor
bentley
who
said
when
residents
come
to
us
and
say
before
anything
can
happen.
E
Does
somebody
have
to
die
before
you
do
something?
And
the
answer
is
yes.
But
we've
heard
this
morning
from
from
my
constituents
that
even
when
four
young
people
die
that
still
wasn't
enough
to
inspire
any
sort
of
change,
the
polar
explained
where
this
accident
happened
and
at
the
time
I
I
lived
a
stone,
throw
away
in
a
flat
behind
the
top
recovery
on
back
lane
in
horstworth
and
was
was
woken
by
the
activity
around
around
the
the
incident.
E
And
since
then,
it
seemed
bewildering
to
me
how
something
so
horrific
could
could
have
no
reactive
change,
and
I
hope
this
morning
the
members
of
the
board,
who
have
heard
me
talk
about
this
particular
accident
over
the
past
couple
of
years
and
have
heard
me
bang
on
about
relaxing
this
criteria
about
speed
cameras
and
installing
speed
cameras
for
the
last
couple
of
years.
E
Now
you
know
get
an
understanding
as
to
where
I've
been
coming
from,
I
have
to
say,
I
think,
even
my
own
viewers,
as
sort
of
mellowed
out
as
a
relatively
young
driver.
I
was
always
thought
you
know.
E
Speed
cameras
are
just
there
to
catch
me
out
and
just
there
for
me
to
pay
me
30
quid
fine
or
send
me
on
the
course
that
I
didn't
want
to
go
on
and
it
changed
my
mind
and
I
think
it
changed
the
minds
of
a
lot
of
people
in
where
we
live,
and
I
think
the
response
that
you
received
on
a
very
narrow
social
media
group
made
up
of
people
within
our
community
suggests
that
that's
the
case.
E
So
I'm
gonna
go
back
paul
to
what
I
said
last
time
and
and
it's
not
to
try
and
force
the
issue
or
or
anything
like
that.
It
we
do
have
to
be
part
of
the
conversation.
We
hear
the
experiences
we've
heard
from
a
couple
of
people
today,
but
this
on
speed
cameras.
Specifically
it's
been
looked
at
now.
The
criteria
is
being
looked
at
now.
It
cannot
be
looked
at.
E
I
accept
that
we,
we
all
want
to
move
to
a
more
liberal
approach
to
the
deployment
of
these
things,
but
I
cannot
accept
that
it
goes
forward
without
our
input,
as
I
said
last
time,
at
least
from
this
board,
but
maybe
even
wider
than
that
as
a
council,
and
I
think
that
that
has
to
form
part
of
our
recommendations
that
this
board
sees.
What
comes
back
from
the
department
for
transport
around.
E
This
is
able
to
feed
back
to
officers
who
were
then
going
to
feed
back
into
whatever
goes
back
to
the
department
for
transport
to
try
and
get
a
better
approach
at
this,
because
I've
described
it
as
sort
of
like
a
morbid
set
of
criteria
that
you
know
we
have
to
meet
before
anything
can
change,
and
I
still
believe
that
that's
the
case.
But
we
have
to
have
a
better
approach,
and
I
don't
doubt
that
you're
working
towards
that
better
approach.
E
But
it
has
to
be
inclusive
of
those
who
are
the
decision
makers.
Otherwise,
I
think
that's
when
it
loses
the
confidence
of
people
who
maybe
a
anti-camera
or
whatever.
E
So
I
would
be
happy
to
stand
on
that
basis
and
I
think,
after
hearing
the
the
discussion
this
morning,
anyone
here
would
be,
and
I
think
that
engagement
needs
to
include
those
of
us
who
are
elected
to
represent
people
here.
So
I
made
the
point
last
time.
I
think
I've
made
it
again.
So
I'd
appreciate
paul
what
your
thoughts
are
on
that.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
for
that
jonathan.
It's
one
of
the
reasons
why
I
made
the
point
earlier
about
being
able
to
share
and
disseminate
the
experience
of
real
people
like
ian
and
jill
and
paul
and
more
widely,
and
I
think
that
that
fits
into
part
of
what
you
were
saying.
Jonathan.
I
think
we'll
take
that
as
a
comment.
A
But
one
question
I
wanted
to
ask
is
in
terms
of
conveying
towards
as
members
and
to
the
wider
public,
this
determination
to
eradicate
casualties
vision,
zero,
whatever
we
call
it,
but
it's
the
eradication
basically
of
casualties
and
to
demonstrate
that
there
is
genuine
joint
working.
I'm
just
wondering
whether
officers
and
the
panel
and
the
group
that
you've
talked
about
paul
and
gary
have
actually
audited
the
resources
available
to
us.
A
What
is
the
pot
that
can
be
dedicated
not
just
to
casualty
eradication
in
the
short
term
and
continuing
to
do
more
and
improve
on
what
we
are
doing?
But
where
is
the
money
to
actually
roll
it
out
more
widely,
because
we
do
invariably
come
back
to
the
question
of
resources
and
we
need
to
be
convinced
as
members
and
the
public,
and
I
think
this
is
going
back
to
the
point
that
jonathan
made
need
to
be
convinced
that
we
are
using
every
casualty
eradication
pound
and
I'm
getting
more
and
more
kind
of
job
written.
M
Okay,
volunteering
I'll
I'll
have
a
go
so
the
combined
authority
that
the
money
gets
channeled
from
a
government
through
to
the
combined
authority.
We
at
the
highway
authorities,
then
there's
a
discussion
around
how
the
various
pots
are
split
and
we
are
then
allocated
it
on
an
annual
basis.
M
So
if
you
wanted
information
about
the
finances
that
are
available,
then
that
would
be,
I
think,
relatively
easily
identified
through
the
combined
authority
and
we'll
have
colleagues
who
going
in
the
transport
planning
team
is
a
party
to
those
conversations.
M
N
It's
okay,
I'm
going
to
let
you
comment
on
the
high
level
sort
of
investment
of
grant
money
and
precept
etc,
but
from
an
operational
point
of
view,
both
in
terms
of
roads,
policing,
officers,
officers
at
district
level.
Your
uniform
cops
that
are
out
there
in
the
community
and
indeed
my
own
sphere
of
influence
in
terms
of
the
the
speed
camera
world.
It's
about
initially
ensuring
that
we
get
best
value
out
of
existing
resources
before
we
go
clamoring
for
more
now.
N
So
we
have
an
ongoing
work
stream,
which
is
actually
giving
us
a
much
better
field
of
information
on
which
to
decide
where
to
put
officers
on
not
just
a
daily
basis,
but
on
an
hourly
basis,
because
that's
really
important
when
you
think
about
it.
If
we
can
identify
through
the
various
streams
of
information
that
are
at
our
disposal,
where
somebody
is
most
likely
to
be
using
inappropriate
speed,
which
junction
we
know
is
more
likely
to
have
a
collision
at
a
particular
point.
N
In
the
day,
well,
it
makes
sense
for
us
to
actually
deploy
into
those
areas
equally
in
terms
of
overlaying
that
essentially
rhodes,
policing
intelligence.
We
have
criminality
in
our
communities
now.
Criminals
are
also
potentially
a
danger
on
the
roads,
so
let's
actually
bring
together
criminal
intelligence
with
intelligence
relating
to
collisions,
excessive
speeding
or
traffic
offenses,
and
really
get
more
bang
for
our
buck
out
of
the
existing
resources
that
we
have
that's
intelligent
policing
in
our
book,
intelligence-led
policing,
which
is
very
much
focused
on
known
or
indeed
anticipated
problems.
N
G
Thanks
paul,
I
think,
I
suppose
more
relevantly
at
the
moment,
so
there
will
obviously
be
some
budgetary
announcements
this
week
right
there
and
comprehensive
spending
review
outcomes
for
policing
specifically
will
be
more
better
known
in
december.
As
I
understand
it,
I
suppose
at
that
point,
then
we
as
an
organization
for
uk
policing,
as
well
as
west
yorkshire,
in
that
respect,
have
to
work
out
what
we
then
have
available
funding
wise
to
deal
with
the
competing
priorities.
G
All
that
aside,
that
increases,
as
paul's
pointed
out
the
emphasis
on
joint
work
and
joint
discussions,
joint
decision
making-
and
I
think
we
said
previously-
that
in
times
of
austerity,
that
temptation
and
it's
counterintuitive
is
for
agencies
to
retreat
into
their
own
worlds
and
try
and
deal
as
best
as
they
can
with
the
issues.
They've
got
when,
in
fact
the
actual
reverse
needs
to
happen.
G
So
co-location,
communication
coordination,
better
decision
making
about
what
resources
are
allocated
jointly
to
locations
of
threat,
and-
and
I
accept
that's
a
really
broad
overview
and
clearly
the
discussions
in
and
amongst
that
can
be
tricky
troublesome,
but
that's
not
to
say
that
they
don't
happen.
So
that's,
I
suppose,
just
to
sketch
out
how
the
next
three
to
six
months
will
work
daily.
J
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
add
to
what's
been
said
about
resourcing,
because
there's
one
aspect
of
this
that
I
think
gets
very
little
attention,
and
that
is
the
resource
that
is
put
into
supporting
victims
where
bereavement
has
occurred
as
a
result
of
a
road
road
traffic
collision,
and
that
was
really
my
starting
point
for
getting
involved
in
this
whole
whole
debate,
really
as
the
victim's
advisor
first
to
the
police
and
crime.
J
J
The
ministry
of
justice
chose
to
retain,
and
the
next
thing
that
happened
was
that
the
ministry
of
justice
announced
that
it
was
to
withdraw
its
only
grant
in
this
area,
which
was
a
grant
it
made
to
the
organization
break,
which
has
already
been
mentioned,
for
what
is
now
the
national
road
victims
scheme.
J
I
got
involved
my
pcc
and
also
a
number
of
others
of
us
in
lobbying.
We
thought
that
was
horrendous.
I
mean
it
was
a
tiny
ground.
You
know
shocking,
actually
in
terms
of
the
overall
resource.
J
Good
goodness
knows
there
is
the
overall
level
of
resource
to
victims
is
not
very
high
anyway,
but
the
resource
going
to
this
particular
group
is
particularly
scandalously
small,
so
we
did
lobby
very
hard
to
get
the
ministry
of
justice
to
change
its
mind
and
the
outcome
of
that
was
the
funding
for
the
national
road
victims
scheme
transferred
to
the
department
of
transport
we're
now
in
the
second
year
of
the
funding
the
dft's
provided,
I'm
glad
to
say
in
both
those
years
it's
gone
up,
although
it's
still,
in
my
view,
scandalously
small
in
terms
of
the
of
the
needs-
and
that
is
not
I
don't
in
making
those
comments
in
any
way
want
to
diminish
the
role
that
some
other
organizations
also
play
in
supporting
victims
and
scarred
here,
I'm
sure
will
want
to
comment.
J
There's
also
an
organization
called
road
peace
which
I
know
leeds
leeds
city
council
has
worked
with
and
publicized
and
so
on.
But
I
I
just
want
to
make
that
point
really
that,
regrettably,
you
know
there
are
well
our
historic
victims
who
need
support
and
will
need
it
going
forward.
J
Sadly,
there
are
going
to
be
more
victims
in
the
future.
However
successful
we
all
are
at
prevention,
and
I
just
think
in
the
whole
resourcing
debate
there
is
a
a
committee.
There
is
a
working
group
of
the
current
dft
review
and
roads
policing.
Looking
at
this,
it
seems
to
be
moving
agonizingly
slowly,
but
we
just
hope
that
some
recommendations
will
come
forward
from
that,
but
I
just
think
it's
a
really
important
dimension
of
the
resourcing
debate.
That
is
really
often
neglected.
J
I
can
comment
on
the
sort
of
political
leadership
side
if
you
like
from
the
west
yorkshire
point
of
view,
and
I'm
really
pleased
to
be
able
to
tell
you
that,
literally
monday
of
this
week,
a
proposal
went
to
the
council
leaders
with
the
support
of
the
mayor,
the
deputy
mayor
and
councillor
susan
hinchcliffe,
as
the
transport
portfolio
holder
within
the
combined
authority,
to
create
a
politically
led
vision,
zero
board-
and
this
is
something
that
has
been
discussed
with
the
council
leaders
and
it
would
appear
there
is
support
for
that.
J
However,
they're
being
asked
to
sign
off
on
it
this
week
to
say
that
they're
content
for
it
to
go
ahead,
they're
also
being
asked
to
nominate
a
relevant,
a
relevant
politician
to
lead
on
those
discussions
at
the
west
yorkshire
level
from
from
the
authority.
I'm
delighted
to
say
as
well
part
of
those
proposals
is
that
there
be
a
public
health
input.
J
That
is
one
of
the
things
that
one
of
the
propositions
that
has
been
put
forward
and
we've
also
allowed
for
direct
engagement
with
those
directly
affected,
with
proposing
that
the
vision,
zero
board
of
a
power
of
co-option,
which
would
potentially,
if
it
so
wishes,
enable
it
to
have
some
direct
direct
involvement.
So
I
think
I
hope
that's
a
bit
of
reassurance
that,
because
I
think
leeds
is
providing
excellent
leadership,
but
I
know
from
discussions
with
leeds
officers.
J
You
would
like
to
see
this
happening
west,
yorkshire,
wide
and,
after
all,
the
road
system
is
very
much
a
west
yorkshire,
a
west
yorkshire
kind
of
element.
So
I
hope
that's
a
bit
of
reassurance
that
the
strong
words
that
ian
referred
to,
which
the
deputy
mayor
allison
has
as
used
as
in
her
meeting
with
them,
are,
are
being
taken
forward
into
some
practical
action
which
we
hope
will
result
in
the
kind
of
more
focused
political
leadership
that
I
think
we
all
think
is
necessary
at
the
west
yorkshire
level.
On
this
issue.
J
A
Thanks
very
much
for
leaping
in
there
david,
I
was
going
to
bring
you
and
johnny
and
still
will,
but
I
wanted
to
capture
the
information
that
we'd
received
from
paula
and
ian
and
jill
for
comment
rather
than
going
through
a
huge
screen
before
we
did.
That
I
mean
just
coming
back
to
the
point
of
my
question
about
what
the
overall
pop
is
for
onto
a
better
expression
is
really
just
reflecting
on
the
way
the
nhs
operates.
A
A
It
looks
as
though
we're
kind
of
moving
towards
that,
but
hopefully
there's
a
lot
of
scope
still
still
there
and
clearly
it
means
that
you
can
identify
priorities
which
need
more
resources
when
it
comes
to
bids
either
internally
within
organizations
or
going
capping
down
to
government
so
yeah.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
those
responses.
I
will
jump
belatedly
and
with
some
apologies
now
come
to
you
you're
you,
you
work
for
support
and
care
after
road
death
and
the
floor
is
now
yours.
I
Yeah,
thank
you
very
much
and
thank
you
for
your
invite
to
to
attend
here
today,
I'm
in
a
rather
unique
position,
because
I
fall
into
about
four
different
categories.
In
here.
I've
been
involved
with
road
safety
partnerships
with
road
safety
campaigning
as
a
police
officer
as
well,
and
now
we're
also
with
scars.
So
I've
come
with
quite
a
bit
of
experience.
I
62
years
of
age
now,
and
I've
probably
spent
the
last
40
years
as
I
was
dealing
with
death
and
destruction
on
the
roads
in
one
way
or
another.
If
I
can
just
go
as
young
lady,
sir
to
me,
went
backwards
to
come
forwards.
I
joined
south
yorkshire
police
in
1980,
completed
30
years
in
2010.
I
Early
in
my
career
was
involved
in
the
coroner's
office
in
sheffield,
but
I
dealt
with
inquests
into
all
sorts
of
unexpected
traumatic
deaths
involving
road
crashes,
which
is
where
I
was
really
introduced
into
my
my
interest
in
it
in
1988.
I
I
came
to
this
very
building
as
an
invited,
as
the
only
uniform
police
officer
to
the
annual
general
meeting
of
road
peace
who
just
been
alluded
to.
That
was
one
of
the
more
terrific
days
of
my
police
career.
I
I
met
with
over
80
bari
families,
and
I
was
something
of
a
target
and
the
some
of
the
horrific
tales
they've
been
dealt
with
by
not
just
the
judicial
system
but
by
the
police
themselves
led
me
to
go
back
and
submit
a
rather
lengthy
report
to
my
supervisors
and
eventually
a
voice.
My
voice
was
heard
that
the
police
were
not
doing
it
right
back
in
the
eighties.
The
police
thought.
Yes,
we
do
it
this
way.
I
We
do
it
that
way
and
it
needed
somebody
to
point
out
that
no
you're
doing
it
wrong
and
that
led
eventually
to
the
introduction
of
flos
into
the
rope,
policing,
group
or
traffic,
as
it
was
then
paul,
I'm
proud
to
say
I
was
a
trafficker
since
2010,
when
I
retired
I
became
a
trustee
of
both
scard
and
cardsgard
stands
for
support
and
care
after
road
death
and
injury.
We
do
what
it
says
on
the
team
we
offer
help
through
our
helpline,
which
is
man
12
hours
a
day.
I
365
days
a
year,
we
offer
independent
legal
advice.
One
of
our
trustees
is,
in
fact
a
barrister.
I
We
have
for
counselling
free
in
our
premises
at
osset
and
where
possible,
anywhere
nationwide,
where
we
can
get
the
counselling
for
free
or
to
reduce
rate.
We
will
try
and
arrange
that
for
people
that
we've
heard
of
today
who
have
been
affected
not
just
as
bereaved
parents,
partners
or
whatever,
but
anybody
that's
been
involved
or
affected
in
some
way
by
a
road
death.
I
They
say
that
over
450
people
are
affected
by
each
road
death.
Now,
when
you
take
into
account
family,
extended
family
work,
colleagues,
friends
and
even
the
emergency
services,
I
can
recall
every
single
time.
I
walked
up
somebody's
path,
knocked
on
their
door
as
an
flo
and
giving
them
that
that
news
and
totally
wrecked
their
lives,
the
police,
the
ambulance
service,
the
fire
service,
the
doctors,
the
nurses
in
the
nhs
all
of
those
are
affected
by
eight
year
old
death
and
each
and
every
one
of
them
are
welcome
to
approach
us
for
support.
I
We
have
supported
inquests
and
right
throughout
the
judicial
system.
Again
we
have
a
lot
of
experience.
Every
single
one
of
our
trustees
and
our
volunteers
have
been
affected
in
some
way
by
a
road
death.
I've
explained
the
way
the
way
I
was
affected
and
just
two
years
ago
I
became
a
fully
fledged
member.
I
When
I
lost
my
my
auntie
to
in
a
row
crash,
we
also
provide
information
booklets
which
we
send
out
to
various
families,
as
they
request
them,
give
an
insight
into
the
legal
system
how
to
deal
with
each
step
in
the
post
collision
process
if
you
like,
and
there
are
plenty
of
those
those
steps
along
the
way
and
understanding
rights
as
the
victim
of
a
road
death
or
a
serious
injury.
I
I
was
also
involved
2011
to
2016
as
project
manager
for
the
south
yorkshire,
safe
road,
safer
roads,
partnership
in
their
drive
for
life
project,
which
was
aimed
at,
as
we
mentioned
earlier
on
70
to
24
year
olds,
trying
to
give
them
some
insight
into
what
can
happen
when
that
chain
of
events
is
actually
set
off
going
we
over
the
six
years,
I
was
doing
that
we
presented
that
to
seven
and
a
half
thousand
students
each
year
in
south
yorkshire,
so
we
had
quite
a
good,
quite
a
good
following
and
some
really
really
good
feedback
as
well.
I
We
also
support
project
edward.
I
don't
know
if
anybody's
heard
about
that
edwards
stands
for
every
day.
Without
a
road
death
it
used
to
be
the
european
day
without
a
road
death.
Until
this
poll
was
disbanded,
that's
now
run
by
highways,
england
and
they
basically
I'll
look
at
the
same
thing,
a
vision
of
zero
deaths.
I
I
D
Yes,
thank
you
for
sharing
your
experiences
and
thank
you
to
everybody.
Who's
come
and
shared
experiences
with
us.
Today.
It's
been
really
really
powerful
to
listen
to
you,
and
certainly
this
has
been
one
of
the
most
difficult
meetings
that
I've
attended
as
part
of
this
scrutiny,
and
so
I
thank
you
for
doing
that.
So
I
think
jonathan
somebody
over
there
said
that
if
it's
difficult
for
us
to
listen
to,
it
must
be
extremely
difficult
for
you
to
do
so.
Thank
you
for
sharing
that.
My
question
was
about
you.
D
You
mentioned
the
education
of
young
drivers,
and
a
few
people
have
talked
about
that
today
is.
Is
that
something
that
is
going
to
be
a
part
of
vision,
zero,
and,
if
so,
do
you
have
any
details
that
you
can
share
with
us,
because
it
seems
to
me
that,
if
everybody's
going
to
play
their
part,
that's
probably
going
to
be
quite
an
important
strand.
D
Counselor
just
to
let
you
know
that
one
of
the
the
key
pillars
is
around
the
post
collision
and
response
and
care.
D
I
have
worked
in
partnership
with
john
and
david
and
and
spoke
to
ian
as
well
and
and
lots
of
the
other
support
services
that
are
available,
and
the
one
thing
that
does
come
out
is
the
issues
around
funding,
but
also
around
sharing
that
message,
and
those
are
some
of
the
things
that
we
would
like
to
pick
up.
D
I've
made
quite
extensive
notes
from
listening
today
about
actions
that
we
can
take
forward
and
include
in
that
vision,
zero
strategy
and,
I
think,
just
continuing
to
work
together
and
make
sure
also
that
west
yorkshire,
safer
roads
are
aware
of
these
services
too,
because
I
think
that's
been
missing
and
that
certainly
needs
to
be
picked
up
at
a
regional
level.
So
there's
a
whole
chapter
dedicated
to
this
particular
subject
matter,
and
I
really
hope
that
it
does
make
a
difference.
I
Yeah
one
thing
I
didn't
mention-
which
I
I
really
ought
to
have-
is
an
open
invitation
for
anybody.
Who's
been
affected
in
any
way
by
a
road
death
or
for
anybody
from
the
council
police,
the
safer
roads
partnership
annually.
We
have
what
we
call
oak
leaf
service,
it's
on
the
26th
of
november
this
year.
The
coin
starts
on
the
21st
of
november.
It
coincides
with
the
international
day
of
remembrance
for
all
death
victims.
I
It's
still
at
three
o'clock
at
least
parish
church
and
it's
an
open
invitation
for
anybody
who
wishes
to
come
with
a
you
know:
bereaved
councillors,
road,
prison
practitioners,
anybody
who's
got
interest.
Please
don't
come
along.
F
And
mind
blip,
I
was
just
taught
actually
on
the
education
side
of
it.
I
think
that's
brilliant,
actually
only
ask
I
would
have,
and
it's
just
a
consideration
point
is
and
especially
because
I
do,
our
sons
had
a
lot
of
friends
a
lot.
F
It
was
ridiculous
how
many
friends
they
had,
but
one
thing
I
do
want
you
to
think
about
is
the
language
that
you
use
in
order
to
get
them
engaged
with
the
stuff
that
you're
doing
because
they're,
not
you,
know,
they're,
not
corporate
they're,
not
going
to
understand
the
jargon
of
this
that
and
the
other
they
want
it
straightforward
in
your
face,
impactful
bullet
points
and
keep
it
relevant
to
the
age
that
they're
at
and
sorry,
but
that
is
just
and
I'm
speaking
for
them.
D
Thank
you.
We
are
currently
reviewing
all
the
road
safety
education
at
the
minute
for
leeds,
and
so
that's
right
from
the
nursery
offer
right
through
to
put
16..
I
wish
I
could
bottle
you.
I
absolutely
do
because
you
telling
your
story
today
is
really
really
prevalent,
especially
to
those
younger
drivers,
and
that
is
something
that
I'm
really
keen
to
work
with
you
on.
D
I
know
you've
done
some
fantastic
work
at
hospital
high
school,
because
I
have
spoken
to
some
of
the
teachers
up
there
as
well,
and
so
it's
definitely
something
that
we
want
to
work
with
you
on
okay,
yeah
and
so
for
world
members
over
the
next
12
months,
or
so
we
are
going
to
be
completely
reviewing
all
the
road
safety
education
offer,
updating
that
bringing
it
up
to
present
day,
so
it
is
more
relevant
to
our
young
people
across
the
district
and
that
is
for
all
ages.
Thank
you.
A
And
hopefully
sooner
rather
than
later,
that
can
involve
sharing
the
experiences
which
we
found
like
described
to
us
by
ian
and
paula
and
and
jill.
I
hope
we
don't
have
to
wait
a
year
for
maybe
that
to
be
set
in
motion
katy.
Do
you
want
to
come
back
and
then
mo.
D
Yeah
just
to
say,
I
think
that
paula,
that
that's
that's
hugely
important
I
mean
I've
sat
in
goodness
knows
how
many
assemblies
over
the
30
odd
years,
that
I've
been
working
in
high
school
and
it
does
make
a
real
difference.
You,
the
ones
that
are
impacting
on
the
young
people.
They
walk
out
of
there,
as
I'm
sure
you'll,
you'll
you'll
have
experienced
really
having
a
change
in
their
mindset,
set
and
thinking.
This
is
how
I'm
going
to
do
something
differently,
as
opposed
to
oh
yeah,
that
was
another
assembly,
and
thank
goodness
it's
over
so
yeah.
D
I
think
the
language
the
way
it's
delivered,
who
it's
delivered
by
as
well,
I
think,
is
really
really
important.
I
know
you
can't
be
everywhere
at
once,
but
certainly
my
experiences
is
somebody
who
can
share
personal
experience
has
a
really
massive
impact
on
making
young
people
think
so
yeah.
That
was
one
thing,
and
the
other
was
just
a
thought
on
who
you're
working
with
certainly
colleges
six
forms,
but
are
you
working
with
the
universities
too,
as
well,
because
that
would
be
another
cohort
of
people?
I
think
it's
worth
involving.
D
I
think
that
that's
a
really
great
idea,
counselor,
but
what
we're
doing
as
part
of
that
review
is
to
look
at
gaps
and
very
much
at
the
moment.
Our
focus
is
on
schools
and
we
need
to
get
the
message
out
through
other
methods
and
that
could
be
through
community
groups.
Universities,
colleges,
lots
of
different
social
media
and-
and
we
have
been
very
siloed
in
the
past-
and
it
has
been
based
really
around
the
schools
and
and
that's
a
a
massive
missed
opportunity.
So
we
will
pick
that
up.
H
Thank
you,
chair,
I'd
like
to
echo
the
views
made
by
the
councils
and
people
on
the
board
that
it's
been
really
heart-wrenching
to
hear
what
ian,
paula
and
jill
about
to
say
and
I'd
like
to
share
my
deepest
sympathies
with
you
all
and
hope
we
can
all
as
a
board
work
on
this
and
as
a
committee
work
on
this
together
to
move
things
forward.
H
But
I
must
agree
with
councillor
taylor
that
as
much
as
we
try,
we
had
an
accident
in
our
ward
when
I
wasn't
even
a
counselor
in
2017
and
we
lost
five
lives
and
it
was
a
decision.
Those
children
would
probably
not
make
if
they
had
the
opportunity
again
to
make
that
decision.
But
it's
getting
that
education
through
to
them
and
as
we're
just
discussing
about
how
to
best
educate
the
children.
H
It's
actually,
as
counselor
dai
has
said,
is
getting
the
relevant
people
with
the
experience
with
the
language
that
they
understand
and
getting
people
from
across
all
communities,
because
this
is
an
issue
especially
of
speeding
and
careless
driving,
which
is
an
issue
across
all
communities.
I'm
trying
to
get
that
through
by
engaging
the
other
communities
that
have
had
similar
experiences
to
angels
and
polis
that
get
them
on
board
as
well,
if
possible,
because
when
people
hear
the
heart-wrenching
experiences
they
they
tend
to
take
more
notice
of
that
they've.
H
H
But
I
think
the
highways
department
do
need
to
react
a
bit
more
quickly
to
the
concerns
of
the
other
world
councillors
and
the
communities
that
they
represent
because
we've
been
struggling
since
2018,
even
though
we've
provided
the
funding
to
not
get
the
smiley
face
once
which
I
totally
agree
are
not
necessarily
always
the
best
things
to
put
up
there
and
we
were
told.
Obviously
the
speeding
cameras,
it
was
the
guidelines
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
H
So
we
ended
up
with
the
highways
department
going
for
the
vehicle,
assisted,
speed,
speed
signs,
they're
a
lot
bigger
than
you
could
have
other
information
on
them
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
and
the
highways
department
at
the
time
were
very
good.
With
this.
They
said
we'll
match
fund
if
you'll
pay
for
one
from
your
award
budget
and
we'll
match
fund
one,
but
unfortunately,
when
they're
coming
up
to
nearly
four
years
now
that
accident
happened
in
november
2017.
H
I
know
we've
had
covered
and
other
issues,
but
we've
money
to
get
smiley
faces
in
other
areas
and
we're
not
looking
for
a
smiley
face.
I
I
know
there's
probably
been
a
supply
issue
or
something,
but
as
ward
members,
we
feel
very
let
down
that
the
highways
department
has
not
put
it
as
something
as
an
emergency
to
actually
look
at
that.
So
we've
lost
five
young
people
there
and
it's
the
road
again
like
councillor.
H
Taylor
has
said
that
we
know
the
community
has
told
us
it's
a
40
mile
per
hour
road.
We
get.
There's
there's
no
sort
of
speed
inhibitors
there,
people
at
night
time
it's
empty,
there's,
nobody
there
and
young
children,
and
even
young
adults
would
see
that
as
an
ideal
road
to
actually
speed
on,
because
there's
nothing
there's
houses
they
set
away.
H
You
know
you
haven't,
really
got
any
schools
on
there,
so
there's
no
real
deterrent
or
anything
to
stop
you
from
speeding
on
there
and
we've
already
had
one
such
accident
and
are
we
waiting
for
another
one
where
we
lose
more
people
or
more
children
until
we
actually
take
action?
So
I
hope
today's
meeting
and
going
forwards
with
the
recommendations
of
going.
For
I
mean
I
forget
the
word:
was
it
zero
and
providing?
H
We
actually
listened
to
the
communities
and
the
councils,
because
we
are
the
people
that
are
actually
there,
because
we
listen
to
the
communities
and
they
tell
us
which
roads
they
feel
or
deem
unsafe
and
where
they
know
that
speeding
takes
place
because
we
understand
police
officers
highways
department
cannot
be
there
all
the
time
and
if
they
actually
listen
to
the
world
councils
and
the
communities
that
they
represent,
there's
a
better
chance
of
being
proactive
rather
than
reactive.
H
And
hopefully
we
we
could
get
to
the
ambition
of
the
zero
where
we
don't
have
those
debts.
And
hopefully
we
could
have
the
right
education
in
place.
So
those
children
can
make
those
decisions
right
decisions
and
maybe
pay
for
a
taxi
or
decide
not
to
drive
that
vehicle
at
that
speed,
because
there's
enough
deterrence
that
they
will
know.
If
we
drive
on
that
on
that
particular
road,
we're
actually
going
to
get
caught
or
something's
going
to
happen,
or
we
can't
speed
up
on
there.
H
So
it
might
make
them
think
before
they
make
those
decisions,
and
we
don't
have
to
hear
these
heart-wrenching
stories
that
we've
heard
today
and
hopefully
we
could
stop
others
from
suffering
and
that
the
same
fate
as
those
children
on
strong
gate,
road,
those
on
on
the
ring
road
and
and
whether
it
was
near
alton
towers
on
a
country
lane
you
know
so,
hopefully
we
could
take
this
back
from
the
spot.
Thank
you.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
for
sharing
that
with
us.
Muhammad,
I'm
sure
your
experience
as
war
members
is
not
unique
across
the
city.
I
know
that
in
my
own
world
we
had
some
speed
indication
devices
the
sids
and
they
do
as
polar
said,
have
limited
value,
but
I
think
they
do
have
some
value
and
two
of
them
went
for
repair
and
never
returned,
and
when
we
chased
it
up,
we
found
that
they've
been
redeployed
elsewhere
in
the
city.
So
sometimes
highways.
M
Two
comments:
firstly,
accomplishes
that
I
think
we
had
an
exchange
of
emails
earlier
this
week,
so
we're
following
up
that
specific
enquiry
and
we'll
come
back
to
you
as
soon
as
we
can
but
appreciate
the
comments.
M
The
second
comment:
I've
sort
of
denied,
in
my
mind
whether
to
say
it,
but
I
I
think,
given
recent
comments,
I
think
I
need
to-
and
I
I
say
this
in
a
in
a
hopefully
helpful
way.
Some
of
the
comments
lately
are
being
directed
again
towards
what
is
the
highways
and
transportation
service
doing
why?
Why
aren't
you
doing
this?
Why
aren't
you
doing
that?
You
could
do
this
and
that's
absolutely
great.
M
M
We
we,
as
a
society,
are
never
going
to
be
able
to
afford
to
traffic
calm,
put
speed
cameras
treat
every
road.
I
I
can
tell
you
here
now
and
probably
nick
will
confirm
the
majority.
We
get
emails
from
a
lot
of
residents,
often
via
councillors,
and
most
of
the
roads
are
deemed
to
be
dangerous,
unsafe
waiting
for
an
accident
to
happen.
M
My
pet's
been
killed
this
that
and
the
other
has
happened
and
it's
a
daily
occurrence.
So
we
are
never
going
to
be
able
to
address
physically
those
issues
on
all
those
roads
and
we
need
to
find
a
way
with
with
local
ward
members
help
a
way
of
okay.
So
what
is
the
problem?
M
But
so
I'm
just
trying
to
make
that
wider
point
again
because
it
just
sent
in
the
last
half
hour.
It's
seemingly
got
lost
again
and
if
funding
is
made
available,
we'll
do
what
we
can
we'll
resource
up
and
we're
passionate,
and
we
want
to
do
it,
as
I
think
you've
heard,
from
on
the
education
side,
on
the
engineering
side
and
on
the
enforcement
side.
M
A
I
don't,
I
don't
think,
there's
any
real
reason
to
be
defensive,
because
I
think
we
have
got
the
message
that
this
is
something
that's
got
to
be
done
collectively
across
agencies
and
across
the
community.
I
think
one
of
the
points
that
ward
members
have
made
either
explicitly
or
implicitly,
though,
is
to
make
sure
that
where
there
is
a
concern,
we
work
with
communities
even
if
it's
just
to
explain
what
the
hurdles
are
and
that
we
can't
deliver
the
police
highways
whatever
agency,
but
all
too
often
it's
a
one-way
kind
of
communication.
A
It
bounces
back
off
the
very
inevitable
brick
wall
and
we
don't
kind
of
then
use
it
as
an
opportunity
to
co-op
the
community
into
those
further
discussions
and
to
make
sure
that
people
are
informed,
and
you
know
and
and
feel
part
of
the
process,
rather
than
just
as
nuisances
who
come
knocking
on
our
door.
So
I
think
I
think
that's
the
point.
I
don't
think
you
should
get
defensive,
because
the
whole
thrust
of
of
what
we're
talking
about
is
that
collective
approach
mo
you
wanted
to
come
back.
H
Yeah
thanks
for
that
chair.
No,
it
wasn't
a
go
at
the
highways
department
and
I
totally
understand
because,
obviously
being
award
counselor,
we
know
how
tight
budgets
are
and
where
the
money
comes
from.
It
was
just
to
say
that
if
you
can
work
better
with
the
communities
and
the
ward
councillors,
not
every
road
just
because
a
cat
has
an
and
and
the
cat
will
have
a
very
important
importance
to
to
the
person
whose
cuts
died
and
it's
understandable.
H
That's
the
point
that
if
you
can
work
together
and
like
you
said
if
there
are
ways
of
actually
resourcing
something
or
or
making
a
deterrent
where
we
don't
have
to
spend
30
000
pounds
on
a
speed
camera
or
on
a
smiley
face
sign
which
has
gone
up
in
price
now
as
well,
it's
a
matter
of
something
that
we
can
communicate
and,
as
the
chair
has
said,
it's
a
matter
of
that
communications
amongst
the
communities,
the
world
councils
and
the
highways
department.
H
Maybe
sometimes
if
you've
got
a
particular
issue
somewhere,
if
you
could
all
sit
down
together
and
and
maybe
get
the
police
involved
as
well
and
say
right,
can
we
get
the
mobile
speed
camera
out
here
more
often,
if
it's
possible,
so
it's
it's
a
genuine
place
where
we
know
speeding's
taking
place
all
the
time
so
that
way,
we're
educating
them.
At
the
same
time,
other
drivers
will
tell
others
don't
speed
on
that
road
because
there's
a
mobile
speed,
camera
there
we
better
slow
down
and
there's
some
some
other
initiatives
that
have
taken
place.
H
While
this
thing
you
know,
sometimes
the
ward
councils
try
their
best
they're
willing
to
put
the
money
for
from
other
projects
into
certain
projects
which
the
highways
then
are
not
as
quick
to
implement
or
as
quick
to
carry
on,
whereas
there's
time
limited
funding
for
other
projects
which
they
get
from
the
government
or
other
places
that
get
done
very
quickly,
but
the
minor
smaller
projects
which
could
save
lives
in
the
communities
that
we
represent
seem
to
take
a
back
step
and
not
not
as
speedily
looked
at
and
not
as
quickly
implemented
as
they
probably
could
be.
L
The
interesting
response
to
that
counselor,
if
there's
anything
specifically
that's
local
to
the
to
the
to
your
particular
ward
area.
You
can
obviously
make
contact
with
your
neighbor
policing
team
so
who
do
look
at
local
issues
and
local
intelligence,
and
it
might
be
that
it's
a
relatively
low
level
issue
that
perhaps
not
gonna
need
that
strategic
safety
camera
work,
but
it
might
need
a
little
bit
of
an
input
from
the
neighbor
policing
team.
L
So,
for
example,
near
schools
with
the
smiley
sids,
sometimes
the
pcsos
or
pc's
running
will
get
will
get
the
kids
with
jackets
on
a
motorist.
Will
it
will
have
an
impact
to
them.
You
know
and
with
85
officers
trained
in
the
districts
that
could
use
pro
laser,
which
is
the
speed
gun
from
one
of
a
better
word,
but
it's
a
pro
laser
device
and
then
we
would
then
publish
that
through
our
social
media
channels
and
a
bit
of
a
you
said
we
did
a
response
to
that.
L
So
it
might
will
be
that
the
officers
go
out
and
they
target
particular
road
or
area,
and
there
are
people
that
are
obviously
found
to
be
speeding
or
not
wearing
a
seatbelt,
we'll
publish
those
results
as
well.
I
have
to
say
that
the
reaction
sometimes
on
social
media
is
mixed.
You've
certainly
got
two
cohorts
of
people.
Some
will
be
supportive
of
it.
L
Some
people,
some
people-
will
be
almost
anti-police
about
it
and
it
tends
to
sometimes
spiral
into
a
bit
of
a
police
versus
the
community,
and
that's
where
the
messages
from
from
from
the
people
that
have
given
their
evidence
today,
jill,
paula
and
ian
young
people
use
social
media.
L
You
know
we
talked
about
education,
assemblies,
my
lads,
17
and
14..
My
17
year
old
is
learning
to
drive
and
he
goes
out
with
me,
but
they
watch
tick-tock.
They
watch
youtube.
They
watch
two
minute
clips
of
people
and
they
listen
to
it.
They
don't
watch
tv,
my
lads
and
and
just
about
bottling
this
information.
L
You
know:
I'm
just
reverse
it
now
I'll
put
it
on
because
I've
had
it
in
school,
so
they
know
and
they
can
influence
their
parents
and
there's
that
ripple
effect
and
especially
younger
people
that
are
going
to
college
university
studying
universities.
We've
talked
about
as
well.
It's
getting
that
educational
input
through
social
media.
I
think
because
they
don't
want
to
listen
to
somebody
like
myself
necessarily,
but
they
may
well
listen
to
to
members
of
the
public
that
have
given
their
evidence
today.
A
Yeah
thanks
very
much
for
that
nick
I
mean,
I
think,
the
collective
view
that's
been
expressed
by
members
of
the
board
and
I'm
sure
we're
speaking
on
behalf
of
the
whole
council.
All
99
members
is
that
this
is
an
opportunity,
as
we
roll
out
vision,
zero
to
involve
ward
members
at
ward
level
more
proactively
than
rather
are
just
simply
performing
that
role
of
taking
up
complaints
and
issues
that
emerge
from
individual
constituents
or
or
at
community
meetings.
So
it's
that
active
involvement
in
vision,
zero.
What
is
it?
How
do
we
contribute?
A
H
Think
can
I
just
thank
paula
jill
and
ian
for
coming
along.
I
knew
this
morning
would
not
be
easy,
but
I
didn't
quite
realize
it
would
be
quite
as
difficult
as
it
is,
but
it
does
come
down
to
what
we've
spoke
for
two
hours
now
and
really
it's
a
behavior
change.
Whenever
we
do
our
surgery
and
I'm
going
to
a
forum
tonight,
and
I
can
guarantee
that
people
will
stand
up
and
say,
we've
had
the
quad
bikes
around
we've
had
speeders
around
and
we
want
a
speed
camera.
H
Nobody
will
stand
up
and
say
we
need
people
to
go
into
schools
and
change
their
behavior.
I
can
always
guarantee
that
will
be
the
case.
I
can
also
most
guarantee
that
the
neighborhood
policing
team
will
be
there
almost
and
they
will
defend
the
fact
of
what
they're
doing
and
it
doesn't
need
a
speed,
camera
and
they're
trying
to
catch
people
and
it's
a
very
difficult
job
to
catch
people,
and
I
accept
all
that
the
residents
won't
be
quite
accepting
of
that.
I'm
sure,
but
it's
around
joined
up
thinking.
H
If
we're
going
to
bottle
the
comments
that
we've
heard
today,
which
will
be
very
useful
and
also
put
that,
together
with
what
highways
think
and
ambulance
technician
a
lot
of
years
ago,
said
to
me,
there
are
no
dangerous
roads,
paul
there's
only
dangerous
road
users.
H
You
use
the
word
drivers
in
those
cases,
but
we
now
know
that
is
all
users
and
in
actual
fact,
if
that
is
truly
the
case,
then
highways
are
sort
of
exempt
from
engineering
solutions
because
all
their
roads
and
leads
they
think
are
safe
and
I'm
sure
that
gary
hasn't
got
lots
of
roads
where
I
think
they're
unsafe.
I
should
be
doing
things
because
he
would
be
attempting
to
do
it,
but
there
are
still
lots
of
roads
where
accidents
occur
and
that's
because
of
users.
H
You
know
if
nobody
used
them,
there
wouldn't
be
any
accidents.
But
my
point
really
is
is
how
we
join
all
this
up.
If
we
continue
to
work
in
silos
as
we've
done
for
many
years,
and
we
do
it
with
other
departments
as
well,
we'll
get
nowhere.
So
my
pleas
to
everybody
down
that
end
is
try
to
work
together
rather
than
just
working
your
separate
areas.
We've
got
all
the
police
sitting
here.
We've
got
all
highways
sitting
there.
A
Thank
you
thank
you
for
that.
I
think
I
will
take
that
as
a
comment,
because
so
much
of
what
we've
covered
over
the
last
two
sessions
has
been
about.
This
move
to
a
more
collective
joint
approach
and
obviously,
as
we
produce
our
report
and
then
follow
it
up,
you
know
the
proof
of
the
pudding
will
be
in
the
eating
paula.
F
It's
me
yeah,
it
definitely
is
me,
I've
just
got
a
question
really,
and
it
is
a
personal
one.
If
I
may
ask
it,
I
know
I'm
in
this
forum,
but
I
would
like
to
ask
it
it's
a
highways
question
and
I
remember
going
back
to
2018
vividly
as
I
recall,
and
I
was
told
that
the
publication
data
is
always
when,
when
I
asked
about
what
the
fatalities
were
in
2018,
I
got
the
response
of
one
in
our
area.
Do
you
remember
jonathan?
F
F
I
think,
if
you're
moving
forward-
and
we
talked
about
the
language
that
we're
talking
about,
can
these
numbers
be
people
rather
than
one
car
it
had
six
passengers
in
it.
Two
were
seriously
injured
four
fatalities.
If
you're
gonna
publish
data,
please
make
it
relevant
to
the
people
that
you're
speaking
to
because
it
adds
weight
behind
your
arguments.
F
M
Is
because
certainly
the
stats
that
I
see
talk
about
number
of
fatalities,
number
of
killed
and
seriously
injured,
we
can.
We
can
br
there's
a
huge
amount
of
statistics.
You
can
imagine
can't
you
in
such
things,
so
you
you
can
switch
it
and
have
what
you
want,
but
certainly
some
of
the
targets
and
information
we
collect
sorry
I'll
defer
to
lindsay
or
no
better.
F
I'm
just
gonna
ask
jonathan,
then.
If
that's
all
right,
because
I
remember
I
received
some
data,
I've
got
a
photographic
memory,
thankfully,
for
me,
and
I
remember
receiving
the
data
back
in
2018
and
it
did
have
one
strap
line.
Didn't
it
that
said
this
was
the
information
we'd
receive
from
highways
around
getting
some
road
safety
things
in
place
and
there
was
just
one
fatality
on
it,
plus
there's
one
vehicle.
E
Thank
you,
chad,
yeah,
I
I
do
recall
it
probably
not
as
vividly
as
as
you
obviously
do,
and
I
I
generally
think
that
it's
how
questions
are
framed
as
to
what
answer
we
do
get
back.
So
there
was,
you
know
one
vehicle
where
there
was
multi
vehicles
involved,
but
you
know
there
was
fatalities
in
one
vehicle
and
I
think
that
possibly
might
be
where,
where
the
confusion
from
highways
has
come
from.
But
I
think
paula
is
absolutely
right.
E
The
clear
indication
at
every
level,
no
matter
what
we're
talking
about
the
people
are
recognized
as
being
involved
in
these
these
incidents
and
and
not
just
and
I'm
not
saying
that
this
is
the
case,
but
what
it
feels
like
what
is
the
most
convenient
number
to
try
and
put
forward
yeah,
and
I
I
I
do
accept
that
highways
do
want
to
to
do
the
best
and
I'm
not
going
to
rehash
what
has
already
been
said
because
we're
not
here
to-
and
it's
been
a
collaborative
approach
today
and
I've
really
felt
a
sense
of
we
all
want
to
do
the
best
and
come
out
of
this
and
do
the
best.
E
But
what
is
clear
is
that
we
all
do
have
to
do
better
and
we
all
have
a
part
to
play
in
that.
So
thank
you.
Paul.
A
I
mean
certainly
the
figures
we
receive
as
a
board
are
the
individuals
who
are
killed
and
seriously
injured,
but
it
would
be
worrying
if
that
isn't
replicated
at
local
level,
and
you
know
what
one
collision
or
one
rtc.
However,
we
term
it
misses
out
the
fact
that
there
were
four
deaths
and
a
number
of
serious
injuries.
It's
superintendent.
G
Yeah
thanks
for
I,
I
can't
comment
for
2018,
sadly,
but
I
just
hopefully
want
to
provide
some
reassurance
that,
yes,
we
do
understand
the
individual
casualties,
because
when
we
analyze
what's
happening
in
any
given
month,
we
we
go
down
into
the
detail
of
what's
been
medical
episodes
behind
the
wheel,
so
not
necessarily
as
a
result
of
criminal
or
dangerous
or
anti-social
driving.
G
Sadly,
as
peop
most
people
will
be
aware,
some
people
choose
to
end
their
own
lives
on
a
road
network.
So
we
also
understand
that
level
of
detail
as
well.
So
I'm
quite
confident
from
from
our
point
of
view
that
we
do
understand
the
individual
casualties
within
each
of
the
reporting
figures.
Yeah.
M
Chair,
if
it
helps
paul,
has
just
put
before
me
this,
the
this
is
more
for
the
minutes
than
anything
else,
but
the
speed
camera
criteria
which
looks
at
the
number
of
collisions.
So
that's
what
it
is.
So
the
the
west,
yorkshire
camera
criteria
talk
about
the
number
of
collisions.
So
that's
why,
in
that
particular
instance,
it
was
quoted
as
one,
but
we
in
our
we
have
without
going
into
monthly
meetings,
and
one
of
the
things
that
I
look
at
is
is
the
number
of
fatalities,
our
road
safety
record,
and
we
talk
about
that.
E
Thanks
cher
yeah
that
does
sound
nothing
right
as
to
what
we
were
talking
about,
but
also,
I
think,
reinforces
my
my
comments
earlier,
that
this
criteria
to
get
something
is
so
unattainable
at
the
moment,
and
it's
just
really
needs
that
sort
of
input
as
what
we've
had
today,
because
we
would
have
gone
away
sort
of
oblivious
as
to
thinking
that
it's
not
it's,
not
individuals
in
this
criteria
who
are
counted.
E
It
is
incidents
and
if
we're
waiting
for,
I
think
it's
within
a
three
or
five
year
period
for
five
collisions
or
whatever
it
is
without
looking.
Then
nowhere
is
going
to
get
anything
at
all
and
nothing
is
going
to
change
and
it
is
going
to
be
just
a
recurring
tragedy
really
of
places
where
we
know,
needs
input
and
needs
intervention.
E
A
K
A
Okay
well
subject
to
that
caveat,
then
I'm
sure
we
would
be
more
than
interested
to
see
it
right.
I've
got
no
more
indications
for
board
members
or
other
contributors,
so
I'll
draw
this
part
of
the
meeting
to
a
close
and
thank
everyone.
Who's
attended
him
for
your
contributions.
It's
absolutely
invaluable
in
the
work
that
we're
doing,
and
he
certainly
convinces
me-
and
I
hope
other
board
members
that
we're
gonna
have
to
spend
a
little
bit
more
time.
A
Rehearing
on
some
of
these
issues
before
we
start
the
process
of
producing
the
report,
because
I'm
conscious
of
the
time
I'm
conscious
that
we,
we
also
reserved
our
consideration
of
a
number
of
issues
contained
in
the
substantive
report.
I'm
thinking
about
school
streets,
jonathan
in
the
pre-meeting,
raise
the
issue
of
crossing
criteria,
active
neighborhoods,
roll
out
of
20
mile
an
hour
zones
influencing
travel
behavior
team.
A
I
don't
think
we
can
do
those
justice
at
this
stage
in
the
meeting,
so
it
may
be
that
we
need
a
separate
agenda
item
on
a
programme
meeting
or
we
need
an
extra
meeting.
Whether
that's
a
formal
meeting
or
a
working
group
is
something
that
we
can
decide
but,
as
I
say,
thank
you
very
much
everyone,
and
particularly
ian
and
jill
and
paula
for
coming
along
and
sharing
your
experiences
with
us
even
so
far
down
the
line.
A
It
clearly
was
very
traumatic
and
very
painful,
and
I
think
that
registered
with
us
and
and
will
continue
to
register
with
us
as
we
as
we
move
this
agenda
forward.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
for
your
attendance
and
contribution,
thank
you
and
if
you
want
to
leave,
we've
almost
reached
the
end
of
the
meeting
anyway,
so
you
won't
be
disrupting
us
right
takes
us
on
to
the
final
part
of
the
agenda
and
that's
the
the
work
program,
obviously
for
information
it
will
be
updated
accordingly.
A
But
I
will
consult
members
as
to
how,
when
you
want
us
to
to
do
that,
I
don't
think
we
need.
I
don't
think
we
should
be
overloading
the
meetings
we've
already
got
programmed
to
try
and
shoe
on
things
into
those,
but
again
I'm
in
the
hands
of
members.
So
thanks
very
much
for
your
contribution.
I
think
it's
been
a
really
really
good
and
long
overdue
session.