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From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Environment, Housing & Communities Scrutiny Board - 31st March 2022
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A
Okay,
right
good
morning,
welcome
to
the
last
well,
potentially
the
last
scrutiny
board
for
environment,
housing
and
communities
in
the
current
council
year,
depending
if
there's
any
call-ins
or
anything
we
might
have
to
reconvene
again,
but
that's
a
side
so
welcome
to
the
very
last
one
we've
had,
I
think,
a
really
good
year.
I
think
we've
covered
a
lot
of
good
subjects
that
affect
our
daily
lives
and
affect
the
people
out
there
that
we
all
represent
out
there.
A
I
think
we've
done
an
excellent
job
this
year
and
we've
covered
a
good
range
of
issues,
so
this
meeting
is
being
webcast
so
and
if
anyone
would
like
to
find
out
any
further
information
about
it,
if
they
go
onto
the
council's
website,
page,
which
I
noticed
that
the
website's
been
up
updated.
So
if
you
can
find
your
way
around
that,
then
good
luck,
so
if
we
want
to
introduce
ourselves
first
of
all,
so
I'm
council,
barry
anderson
and
I
chair
the
scrutiny
board.
C
Item
one
appeals:
there
are
no
appeals
against
refusals
of
inspection
of
documents,
item
two
exclusion
of
the
public.
There
are
no
items
excluded
from
the
public
domain
item
three
late
items:
there
are
no
late
items
number
four
declarations
of
interest.
Can
I
ask
members
to
disclose
any
interest
in
accordance
with
lead
city
council's
code
of
conduct
I'll
take
silencers,
none
and
finally,
apologies.
C
Apologies
have
been
received
from
councillor
gabriel
councillor
blackburn
councillor,
howley,
councillor
collins,
councillor
richie,
who
has
asked
it
be
noted
that
it's
a
covid
related
absence
and
he's
self-isolating
and
also
counsellor,
caroline
gruen,
who
was
due
to
be
substituting
for
councillor
gabriel,
has
also
tested
positive
this
morning
and
is
self-isolating.
A
Today,
yeah
the
scrutiny
word
today,
so
right,
the
minutes
as
far
as
the
minutes
are
concerned,
are
they
a
true
inaccurate
record,
yep
yep,
the
only
point
I'd
bring
to
your
attention
minute,
59,
the
information
from
leeds
watch
hasn't
yet
been
made
available,
but
becky
is
currently
working
on
it
and
as
soon
as
she
gets
it,
she
will
then
forward
it
on
to
everyone
else.
A
Okay,
with
that
said,
anybody
any
other
items
I
want
to
raise
in
the
minutes,
not
right
item
seven
fuel
poverty
update.
This
is
a
very
important
report
because
of
the
effect
of
what's
going
to
happen
to
electricity
prices.
A
From
this
friday
onwards,
I
think
most
of
us
who
have
paid
by
direct
debit
have
been
getting
letters
from
our
suppliers,
telling
us
how
much
our
direct
debits
etc
have
got
to
go
up,
and
so
and
let's
be
quite
frank,
any
thoughts
we
had
about
turning
our
heating
down,
we're
probably
gone
today
with
the
the
weather.
So
that's
not
going
to
help
matter.
A
So
that
said
now,
there's
going
to
be
a
number
of
presentations
today,
copies
of
the
slides
will
be
made
available
to
members
after
the
event,
so
who's
leading
on
this
one,
because
neil
was
down
to
lead
on
this.
I
tom
from
an
officer
perspective
and
presumably
counselor
hayden
from
an
elected
member,
so
christopher
hayden
is
there
anything
you
want
to
say
as
an
introduction
before
we
pass
over
to
the
officers.
F
Yeah
in
terms
of
fuel
poverty,
that's
not
my
area
of
expertise,
and
but
unless
things
you
know,
I
mean
obviously
with
the
energy
crisis
and-
and
things
are
coming
up
in
terms
of
renewable
energy,
and
things
like
that,
which
is
why
I'm
here
today.
Thank
you.
I
Thanks
very
much
chair,
thank
you.
Becky.
I
Okay,
so
yeah,
the
report
starts
off
with
a
quick
overview
of
the
stats
on
fuel
poverty.
So
I
don't
know
if
you
can
see
that
chart
okay,
but
the
latest
figures
in
there
from
2019
that
shows
that
fuel
poverty
in
leeds
is
currently
17,
which
and
the
english
average
is
around
13.5
at
the
moment.
I
The
main
thing
to
take
from
it,
though,
even
though
it's
maybe
not
directly
comparable
with
with
previous
years,
is
that
divergence
you
see
from
from
the
english
average.
So
previously,
in
previous
years,
we've
seen
a
trend
with
leads
going
towards
the
english
average.
Now
we've
gone
in
the
opposite
direction
this
year.
It's
also
important
to
be
aware
that
the
figures
are
now
getting
on
for
three
years
of
the
2019
figures.
So
the
situation
with
with
the
increase
in
energy
prices
is
like
to
be
able
to
be
a
lot
worse
now.
I
Next
slide,
please
so
yeah
the
cost
of
living
crisis
is,
as
chair's
already
mentioned.
It's
it's
something
everyone's
concerned
about.
At
the
moment,
inflation
is
expected
to
hit
seven
percent
next
month.
Rising
commodities
and
energy
prices
are
leading
to
inflation
in
most
sectors.
Food
transport,
clothing,
but
obviously
one
of
the
biggest
factors
is
going
to
be
the
increase
in
energy
prices
coming
into
effect
from
the
end
of
this
week.
I
So
this
chart
shows
the
increase
in
the
energy
cap
in
recent
years,
so
we
can
see
that
from
april
is
going
to
stand
at
nearly
double
what
it
was
just
a
couple
of
years
ago,
it's
gone
up
nearly
800
pounds,
I
think
in
in
the
last
increase
to
nearly
2
000
pounds
for
the
typical
household,
and
the
other
thing
to
take
from
this
is
that
it's
not
just
a
simple
increase
for
everyone.
People
were
able
to
shop
around
before
so
yeah.
I
I
Now
the
increase
in
inflation
would
arguably
less
concerning
if
incomes
are
rising
in
line
with
it,
but
it
isn't
the
case.
Wages
are
increasing
on
average
by
four
percent
over
the
last
12
months.
Benefits
are
only
increasing
by
around
three
percent
for
universal
credit,
and
the
other
thing
is
that
there's
going
to
be
an
anticipated
further
increase
in
the
energy
cap
in
october.
I
So
we
don't
know
what
that's
going
to
be.
There's
some
estimates
put
that
further
29
on
top
of
on
top
of
the
increase,
we're
just
about
to
see
so
yeah
he's
very
concerned
for
all
concern
next
slide,
please.
I
I
Something
that
comes
out
of
that
is
is
one
more
warm
well
homes
as
well,
which
provides
larger
scale
improvements,
so
that's,
for
example,
new
heating
systems,
so
those
referrals
are
done
via
home
plus
leads.
So
when
home
plus
leads
the
scheme
makes
a
contact
with
a
resident
and
they
find
they've
got
an
urgent
heating
need.
They
can
make
a
referral
to
that
warm
well
homes
fund
as
well,
that
costs
around
three
to
five
thousand
pounds
per
property
and
because
it's
based
on
urgent
need
it's
it's
a
discretionary
funding
part.
I
It
doesn't
really
have
a
sort
of
set
budget
per
year.
It's
based
on
those
households
that
are
in
the
urgent
need
of
eating
new
this
year
is
is
funding
from
the
welsh
west,
yorkshire,
health
and
care
partnership,
so
they
provided
339
000
pounds
to
leeds
this
year.
So
that's
new
funding.
It
is
because
it's
health
related
funding.
I
It's
targeted
at
two
groups
of
people,
so
they're
people
at
risk
of
hospitalization
due
to
cold
related
illness,
and
it's
also
targeted
at
those
whose
who
have
health
conditions
but
mean
their
electricity
bills
are
likely
to
be
a
bit
higher.
So
people
who
have
to
run
ventilators
or
have
electric
wheelchairs
more
likely
to
experience
fuel
property
for
that
so
they're
entitled
to
to
be
referred
for
this
funding
as
well.
I
So
that
is
again
a
mix
of
awareness,
raising
advice
and
direct
support
where
appropriate
and
the
government
has
announced
some
some
measures
this
year
to
to
to
help
lessen
the
impact
of
the
cost
of
living
increase.
So
yeah
there's
the
200
pound
energy
bill
rebate,
which
is
repayable
over
the
next
four
years.
There's
150
pounds,
council,
tax
rebate
for
for
bands
d
and
below,
and
they
also
announced
last
week
around
the
increase
in
the
national
insurance
threshold
to
match
council
tax.
I
So
that
will
make
a
difference
in
particular
to
working
households
and
lower
incomes,
less
so
to
households
and
receive
benefits.
I
Really,
though,
the
best
thing
we
can
do
to
worse
to
lessen
the
impact
of
fuel
poverty
is
is
treating
the
problem
that
source
sort
of
insulation
and
other
improvements
to
people's
homes.
It
provides
immediate
benefits.
You
know
as
soon
as
it's
installed,
your
energy
bills
are
going
to
reduce
and
it's
long
lasting
benefit
as
well.
It's
not
a
temporary
reflex.
Some
of
the
other
measures
that
we've
been
talking
about
now
so
next
slide.
Please.
I
So.
We've
been
really
successful
in
leeds
at
getting
external
funding
for
for
those
sorts
of
capital.
Energy
efficiency
works
to
briefly
go
through
some
of
the
schemes
that
have
been
operating
the
last
year.
We've
got
the
greenhouse
grant
local
authority
delivery,
and
so
I
apologize
there
lots
of
obscure
funding
pot
names
here,
but
yeah
greenland's
great
local
authority
delivery.
That's
going
to
improve
almost
900
properties
through
a
mix
of
external
wall,
insulation,
solar,
pv
and
a
mix
of
other
measures
as
well
to
insulate
properties.
I
We've
had
two
projects
that
we've
received:
funding
for
in
the
social
housing
decarbonization
fund,
so
that's
improving
council
properties
around
630
properties.
In
total,
the
bids
were
worth
9.6
million
pounds
and
that's
predominantly
going
to
be
an
external
wall
insulation
to
towel
blocks.
I
We've
also
had
the
social
housing
decarbonization
fund
demonstrator
in
in
the
hotels
area
which
is
around,
I
think,
130
properties
for
deep
what
they
call
deep
retrofit,
which
is
installing
installation
and
a
whole
load
of
other
measures
as
well
to
really
get
the
the
energy
use
down
for
those
properties
and
we've
been
really
successful
at
getting
erdf
funding
as
well.
I
So
we've
successfully
received
applied
for
26
million
pounds,
which
is
about
83
of
the
31
million
pounds
that's
been
available
in
the
whole
of
west
yorkshire,
so
that
includes
energy
efficiency
projects,
including
more
acronyms
tip
transformative
installation
in
back-to-backs,
fit
in
the
future,
lincoln
green
clustering
for
warmth.
So
all
those
projects
have
been
funded
through
that
european
funding,
but
the
funding
landscape
is
changing
so
that
greenland's
grant
local
authority
delivery
fund.
I
That's
ended,
there's
no
more
rounds
of
that
erdf
is
ending
and
it's
going
to
be
replaced
by
something
called
the
shared
prosperity
fund.
We
don't
have
all
the
details
of
of
how
that's
going
to
be
administered
yet,
but
it
does
look
like
it's
going
to
be
well.
It
will
be
administered
through
wyka
now,
given
that
you
might
say
they
might
not
be
so
happy
with
with
us
obtaining
such
a
large
share
of,
as
we
did
for
erdf
for
west
yorkshire.
I
So
we
may
not
be
getting
such
a
large
share
as
we
have
in
the
past,
but
overall
that
means
that
there's
little
available
in
particular
for
solid
wall
properties
in
in
in
the
private,
in
the
private
sector,
so
for
unoccupied
and
rented
properties,
and
those
are
really
the
sorts
of
properties
that
we
need
to
treat
the
most
so
system,
build
properties
and
and
hard
to
treat
cavity
and
properties.
It's
going
to
be
difficult
for
us
to
find
funding
for
those
in
future
next
slide,
please.
I
So.
Finally,
our
the
the
report
talks
about
an
approach
that
that
has
been
successfully
implemented
in
leeds
in
one
particular
project
that
we
want
to
take
forward
and
and
and
develop
further
to
larger
areas.
So
holbeck
group
repair,
which
is
being
led
by
mark
and
his
team,
is
a
project
to
improve
around
130
properties
in
the
recreations
area
of
holbeck,
just
under
100,
I
think,
have
been
completed
so
far
and
it's
installing
a
whole
load
of
improvements
to
those
properties,
installation,
new
roofs,
new
windows,
doors,
repairs
to
bin
yards
dormers
chimneys.
I
You
know
the
whole
properties
have
been
improved.
It's
a
cross
tenure
approach
as
well,
so
it's
private,
rented
sector
owner
occupied
and
the
council
properties
in
that
area
and
the
benefits
of
taking
that
approach
mean
that
benefits
accrue
to
the
wider
area
as
well.
So
the
neighborhood's
more
secure
the
street
scene's
improved
the
whole
every
season
season
uplift
because
of
that
approach,
because
you're
able
to
tackle
the
whole
area
rather
than
individual
properties,
as
we've
only
been
able
to
do
with
certain
certain
other
funds.
I
We
want
to
scale
this
up,
and
this
is
really
the
key
ask
of
the
paper.
We
want
to
work
on
a
business
case
to
take
the
approach
in
that's
been
successfully
applied
in
holbeck
and
work.
I
It
up
on
a
larger
scale,
apply
it
to
a
large
group
of
properties
in
the
neighborhood
neighborhoods,
with
with
similar
profiles
of
holdback,
similar
levels
of
deprivation,
where
those
benefits
of
the
neighborhood
are
going
to
be
seen
as
well,
but
where,
hopefully,
those
benefits
be
great,
because
you're
working
on
a
larger
group
of
properties,
so
yeah
in
terms
of
funding,
for
that
the
share
prosperity
fund
may
be
a
route
for
that.
This
sort
of
approach
is
in
line
with
with
wiki
policy
objectives.
I
They
they
endorse
this
approach
in
in
in
yeah
their
policy
goals,
so
yeah
we
wanted
to
to
work
on
this
as
as
an
approach
to
take
retrofit
as
the
kind
of
the
sort
of
focal
point
for
regeneration
in
an
area
and
working
in
a
a
larger
scale
and
and
really
see
those
benefits
to
larger
neighborhoods
and
take
it
as
a
model
that
can
gain
funding
for
the
future.
So
yeah,
thanks
for
thanks
for
listening
everyone.
That's
the
summary
of
the
paper
and
happy
to
take
any
questions.
H
Well,
thank
you
very
much
so
just
a
short
presentation
from
me
to
complement
the
report.
That's
already
been
circulated
with
the
papers,
so
just
starting
with
the
strategic
context.
We
have
54
000
council
owned
homes
and
they
cut
across
a
wide
variety
of
archetypes.
H
H
We
can't
take
a
one-size-fits-all
approach
and
we
do
need
to
find
solutions
that
lend
themselves
to
the
actual
building
type
that
we're
working
on
a
reminder
of
our
five-year
commitment
or
strategy.
We
are
taking
a
data-led
approach,
so
we
look
at
the
asset
management
data
that
we
hold
and
we
continue
to
collect.
H
H
We're
focused
on
replacing
obsolete
heating
systems
in
high-rise
buildings,
with
renewable
energy
systems
and
I'll
come
on
to
give
you
a
little
bit
more
information
about
that,
and
also
to
focus
on
undertaking
preventative
measures
that
will
reduce
the
heat
loss
from
from
buildings.
Once
we've
once
we've
changed
the
heating
systems
next
slide,
please.
H
This
just
provides
a
little
bit
more
detail
on
the
in
energy
performance
of
our
current
portfolio.
You
will
see
that
of
a
70
of
council.
Housing
stock
is
currently
performing
at
level
c,
and
we
have
focused
a
lot
of
our
energy
on
the
lower
band
ratings
through
the
various
projects
that
we
have
delivered
on
our
planning
to
deliver
next
night.
Please,
in
terms
of
the
shift
in
investment
that
I
mentioned,
this
graph
covers
a
seven
year
period
and
you'll
see
that
in
2016-17,
which
is
just
five
years
ago.
H
The
investment
in
decarbonisation
projects
was
less
than
one
percent
the
2223
program,
which
will
formally
start
as
of
tomorrow
that
investment
has
increased
to
32.6
and
that's
of
an
85
million
pound
program.
H
H
H
H
The
entirety
of
the
pie
chart
covers
97
high-rise
buildings,
so
the
only
ones
that
have
been
excluded
from
those
are
those
that
sit
within
the
pfari
and
also
eight
high-rise
buildings
are
on
gas
at
the
moment.
So
this
is
the
remainder
of
the
high-rise
estate.
H
We
have
already
completed
38,
which
is
37
buildings
that
have
now
moved
to
some
form
or
other
of
renewable
heating
solution.
We're
currently
on
site
actively
working
on
19
of
the
stock
and
21
are
currently
in
the
procurement
phase.
So
we're
really
moving
at
pace
to
complete
this
commitment.
H
This
slide
is
the
one
just
before
this
one,
please
becky.
It's
just
capturing
the
carbon
savings
from
the
work
that
we've
undertaken
and
have
planned.
So
it's
fairly
simple,
but
basically
it
captures
the
annual
savings
of
carbon
across
the
completed
scheme.
H
I
think
it's
also
true
to
say
that
there
are
some
areas
where
we
have
some
dissatisfaction
during
the
period
of
works,
and
that's
because
there
is
quite
a
bit
of
disruption
to
tenants
whether
that's
through
the
noise,
whether
it's
practical
things
like
access
to
parking
and
we
we
are
working
hard
to
mitigate
those
issues
before
they
arise
and
when
they
arise
to
try
and
address
them
as
swiftly
as
we
can.
H
One
of
the
reasons
for
that
is
that
we
have
quite
limited
time
period
for
engaging
with
tenants
ahead
of
the
work
and
that's
mainly
been
driven
by
the
very
tight
time
frames
by
which
we
can
access
funding.
So
in
order
to
counter
through
the
program,
it
means
that
some
of
the
things
that
we
would
probably
spend
more
time
on
at
the
start
of
a
project
we've
had
to
constantina
that
and
do
that
in
a
short
period
of
time.
H
But
we
do
recognize
the
importance
of
engaging
with
tenants
and
keeping
them
on
board
and
ensuring
that
they
understand
what
we're
installing
and
they
know
how
to
use.
Those
systems,
the
key
benefits
that
have
been
highlighted
by
tenants,
is
primarily
that
they
feel
their
homes
are
warmer,
the
heating
is
more
affordable
and
where
we've
installed
external
wall
insulation
and
done
work
to
the
fabric
of
the
building,
they
are
happier
with
how
the
buildings
look
in
terms
of
the
improvement
to
the
physical
aspects.
H
This
next
slide
just
captures
a
few
images
of
some
of
the
projects
that
we've
got
going
on
at
the
moment.
Top
left
is
roxby
claus,
so
there's
a
before,
and
after
so
roxbury
closes
in
the
lincoln
green
area.
It
already
has
leeds
pipes
providing
renewable
heating,
and
then
we've
installed
external
wall
insulation
and
I've.
I've
got
a
little
bit
more
to
share
with
you
at
the
end
on
that
top
right,
as
todd
mentioned,
is
the
tib
project.
H
H
Bottom
left
is
the
whole
project
also
mentioned
by
tom,
and
that's
where
we
are
undertaking,
probably
the
the
highest
number
of
energy
efficiency
measures
to
any
single
property.
So
we're
really
expecting
some
big
results
from
that
work
and
bottom
right.
Just
a
couple
of
images
of
our
ground
source
heat
pump
technology
as
they
dig
the
bore
holes
and
then
the
pipe
installation
next
slide
please.
So
this
is
just
to
capture
so
you
to
share
what
is
up
actually
happening
on
the
ground.
H
At
the
moment,
so
in
terms
of
that
five-year
program,
our
commitment
we
currently
are
working
actively
on
18
high-rise
buildings,
that's
916,
flats
or
homes.
In
addition
to
that,
we
are
working
on
192,
low-rise
system-built
properties.
So
this
is
what
we
describe
as
open
work
on
the
ground
at
the
moment,
and
I
think
it's
important
to
say
that
this
work
is
going
on
alongside
the
rest
of
our
program,
we're
still
undertaking
fire
safety,
work,
kitchens,
bathrooms,
roofing
rewiring,
but
we've
really
amplified
the
work
around
the
carbonization.
H
We're
also
now
exploring
hybrid
systems
the
locations
of
where
the
work
is
happening.
I
won't
read
the
different
words
out,
but
you
can
see
that
it's
spread
across
the
city
and
in
terms
of
the
work
that
we've
very
recently
completed,
that
forms
part
of
that
five-year
program.
We
moved
an
accelerated
pace
on
the
ground
source,
heat
pumps,
we've
completed
phases,
one
two
and
three
and
we've
also
recently
completed
the
work
to
roxby
close
and
then
just.
H
Finally,
I
have
a
couple
of
testimonials
if
that's
okay,
so
the
first
two
are
from
tenants
that
live
in
roxby
close
and,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
that's
where
the
district
heating
system
is
already
in,
but
we've
managed
to
do
the
fabric
work
as
well,
so
it
these
testimonies,
I
think,
should
evidence
the
benefits
of
when
you
can
take
that
whole
building
approach
and
do
more
than
just
one
thing.
H
So
this
first
testimonial
testimonial
is
from
a
female
in
her
20s
and
she
said
that
her
flat
is
a
lot
warmer
prior
to
works.
My
heating
used
to
come
on.
Whilst
I
was
at
work
yet
now
they
only
cut
their
only
coming
on
as
the
temperature
is
not
dropping
it
enough
for
them
to
come
on.
Whilst
I'm
not
there.
H
H
He
commutes
between
selby
and
he
has
he's
a
young
child
that
comes
to
stay
with
him,
I'm
not
at
the
property
all
the
time,
but
when
I
am,
I
hardly
feel
the
need
to
put
my
heating
on,
as
the
wall
insulation
often
offers
extra
warmth
to
before,
and
I
really
need
to
switch
my
heating
on
this
is
good,
as
it
means
my
heating
bill
will
have
will
have
gone
down.
It
also
looks
a
lot
better
than
it
did
before,
and
it's
nicer
to
come
home
to.
H
I
also
want
to
comment
on
my
previous
electric
storage
heaters
that
would
have
pain,
expensive
to
run
uncontrollable,
hard
set
to
the
right
temperature,
and
they
just
took
far
too
long
to
heat
up,
and
they
also
said
my
hot
water
is
now
instant.
My
flat
is
warmer
and
it
looks
a
lot
better
to
come
home
to
it's
fair,
to
say,
I'm
very
happy
with
the
works
done
to
the
place
I
call
home
and
then,
in
terms
of
ground
source
heat
pumps.
The
most
recently
completed
project
was
at
the
queen's
woods.
H
H
It's
very
good
and
I'm
more
than
happy,
and
he
said
it
makes
my
life
easier
and
less
expensive,
as
I
work
from
home
from
time
to
time,
and
it's
one
less
thing
to
worry
about:
we
don't
really
have
metrics
on
how
people's
well-being
is
improving
through
the
works
that
we're
doing
so.
That's
why
we're
relying
on
testimonials
and
finally,
a
female
with
two
small
children.
She
said
I
have
two
small
children
so
before
it
was
a
nightmare
I
had
to
plan
bath
time
and
at
any
time
that
used
hot
water.
H
As
I
can
get
hot
water
whenever
I
need
to-
and
it
makes
my
life
with
two
children
much
easier-
it's
also
cheaper
to
run,
and
I
find
keeping
the
heating
down,
though,
is
all
that
is
needed
to
keep
my
property
warm.
I'm
very
grateful
for
the
work
that's
been
done
and
it's
helped
improve
my
life
greatly
in
comparison
to
the
electric
storage
heaters
that
were
here
before.
Thank
you.
A
I'm
getting
told
up
normally
I
keep
my
buzzer
thing
on
all
the
time
so
that
I
can
intervene
if
someone's
getting
up
strippers,
but
because
of
the
way
we've
got
things
configured
just
now,
so
I
do
think
the
testimonials
have
been
very
powerful
and
you
know
thank
you
for
what
you're
doing.
I
have
no
doubt
there'll
be
plenty
of
questions
coming
when
we
have,
and
now
that
we've
had
two
warm-up
warmer
packs.
We've
now
got
the
main
act
seriously,
though,
can
I
introduce
mark
ireland
from
the
private
rented
sector
side
of
things?
G
G
G
If
you
look
at
heating
systems,
cheapest
heating
system
to
put
in
properties
which
most
owners
will
put
in
and
most
landlords
will
put
in
as
gas
gas
is
higher
in
its
carbon
emissions
and
electric
we
heard
earlier
about
the
52,
whatever
percent
it
will
be
in
a4,
plus
following
on
in
october,
to
put
electric
in,
especially
in
some
of
the
more
challenging
properties,
older
properties
he's
not
fuel
efficient.
So
it's
that
balance
between
the
heating
system.
What
you
do
with
properties
is
it
decarbonization?
G
Is
it
fuel
poverty?
Another
issue
that
we
have
is
contradictory
legislation
and
guidance
in
terms
of
standards
it's
deal-up
and
in
terms
of
the
carbon
agenda,
it
is
colleagues
in
bees.
Whilst
we
talk
to
both
both
have
slightly
different
agendas,
different
approaches
and
at
times
legislation
and
guidance,
we
get
contradict
each
other.
G
We
have
a
duty
and
depart
one
of
the
housing
act
to
address
excess
cold,
but
some
of
the
information
and
guidance
we
get
from
deal
up
and
the
direction
of
travel
will
not
address
excess
cults.
Some
of
the
works
that
we
have
to
do
under
past
2035
actually
can
create
a
part
one
hazard,
so
we
need
to
work
government
and
we
are
working
government
to
try
and
address
some
of
these
contradictory
pieces
of
advice
that
we're
getting
next
time.
G
25
of
our
homes
in
the
private
sector
are
within
the
pre-1919
stock.
You've
heard
from
tom
earlier
there's
unlikely
to
be
a
lot
of
money
available.
They
are
the
hard
to
treat
properties.
They
are
tending
to
be
the
ones
that
will
cost
more.
We've
mentioned
holbeck
back-to-back.
G
They
are
currently
around
26
000
pounds
of
property
for
the
works
that
we're
doing
increasing
in
material
costs,
currently
roughly
10,
so
they're
closer
now
to
30
percent
and
the
changes
in
the
requirements
that
we
have
in
meeting
standards
from
pads
2030
to
past
2035
will
put
another
possibly
four
or
five
thousand
pounds
on
that.
So
you're,
going
from
26
to
somewhere
closer
to
35.
Excuse
me
35
000,
for
that
type
of
work.
G
The
main
private
sector,
housing
in
the
city
is
actually
on
occupation.
It's
about
69
percent
of
properties
are
owner-occupied,
so
it's
there's
an
awful
lot
of
work
to
be
done
with
that
sector.
G
Next
slide.
Please
again,
there
isn't
a
single
market.
There's
different
markets.
Different
needs,
different
requirements
from
the
private
rented
sector,
so
one
model
doesn't
fit
all
I
mentioned
earlier,
the
cost
of
works
for
owners.
Talking
to
george,
I
think
to
me,
epcc
in
the
city
we're
looking
at
about
nine
billion
pounds.
G
At
the
moment,
when
you
sell
a
house,
it's
not
something
that
gives
you
a
market
advantage
or
a
selling
point.
If
you
look
yes,
there's
epc
certificates,
but
people
are
probably
more
interested
in
location,
schools,
etc.
G
What
can
we
do?
We
offer
education?
We
offer
help
and
advice.
Tom
mentioned
the
access
that
we
have
and
the
support
that
we
can
give
people.
There
is
some
finance
available.
There
are
loans,
there
are
grand
scheme,
some
detailed,
those
I
think
the
issue
for
us
is.
If
you
look
at
the
work
we
have
done
in
holbeck
the
money.
G
We
do
have
enforcement,
we
have
housing,
acts,
part
one
excess
cold
that
allows
us
to
put
in
things
like
central
heating,
etc
to
upgrade
people's
properties,
and
we
do
have
minimum
energy
efficiency
standards,
although
they
are
limited
use
because
of
a
lot
of
exemptions
and
the
level
but
I'll
come
to
mentioning
the
changes
in
that
towards
the
end,
we
can,
we
obviously
increase
awareness.
We
have
twitter
emails
alerts,
we
work
with
the
sector
itself,
we
work
to
look
at
making
greening
and
carbon
reduction
part
of
house
improvements
of
the
norm.
G
So
we
work
with
people
to
try
and
get
them
to
understand
that
if
you
are
going
to
roof
a
roof,
it
is
easy
to
insulate
it.
While
you
are
doing
those
works,
if
you
are
going
to
replace
the
wall,
it
is
easier
to
re-plaster
after
you've
done.
The
energy
efficiency
works
then
put
them
in
retrospectively
because
you're
going
to
have
to
do
them
and
finally,
future
potential
changes
and
again
going
back
to
this
conflict
I
mentioned
in
slide
one.
We
know
there
is
going
to
be
a
white
paper
on
the
private
sector
housing.
G
There
is
talk
of
decent
standard
decency,
decent
standard,
sorry
home
standard
across
all
tenures.
That
includes
a
thermal
comfort
test
as
one
of
the
four
we
don't
that's
more
around
use
of
energy
and
insulation.
It
is
not
about
decarbonisation
we're
expecting
the
energy
built
around
june,
we're
expecting
in
the
energy
bill.
The
government's
feedback
on
whether
or
not
epcc
is
going
to
be
a
requirement
to
rent
your
property.
G
There
is
talk
about
that
being
2026
very
short,
each
that
will
raise
issues
going
back
to
what
I
said.
It's
going
to
cost
about
9
million
9
billion
quid
to
actually
bring
them
up
to
date
at
the
moment,
it's
2030
and
we
we're
waiting
to
see
what
that
actually
entails.
A
Thank
you
for
our,
and
hopefully
everyone
agrees.
These
are
been
three
excellent
presentations
and
it
shows
you
the
commitment
that
is
out
there
by
the
council
in
order
to
address
it,
and
it's
something
I
think,
bearing
in
mind
the
political
climate
we're
in
just
now
that
you
are
right
at
the
centre
of
the
storms
that
are
around
in
terms
of
the
work
that
you're
doing,
to
try
and
make
things
better
for
all
tenures
within
the
city,
not
just
one
tenure
or
whatever
counselor
hayden.
F
Thank
you
chair,
and
I
think
the
way
of
doing
the
three
presentations
together
just
exemplifies
all
this
cross-cutting
because,
as
I
said
in
the
beginning,
I'm
not
here
for
fuel
poverty,
I'm
here
for
decarbonization
and
having
said
that,
it
crosses
over
all
the
different
and
that's
why?
I'm
really
delighted
that
you
know
the
council
is
at
the
forefront
of
investigating
of
bidding
for
money
and
which
it
does
extremely.
F
The
officers
are
extremely
competent
at
doing
that,
and
the
money
that
we've
been
able
to
bring
into
the
city
has
meant
that
actually
businesses
have
come
to
the
city
as
well.
Who
see
that
there
is
the
amount
of
work
going
on
in
leeds
that
they
can.
They
can
tap
into
because
it's
cross-cutting.
F
I
think
what
we've
done
in
holbeck
is
what
needs
to
be
taken
forward
about
doing
that
kind
of
whole
holistic
approach
and
doing
a
kind
of
whole
area,
rather
than
just
one
intervention,
and
also
the
broad
breadth,
because
airsoft
heat
pumps
are
great,
but
they
cost
a
lot
of
electricity,
which
is
four
times
more
expensive
than
gas.
F
Even
though
I
know
gas
prices
are
going
up
at
the
moment,
but
but
if
you
couple
them
with
pv,
you
know
solar
panels
and
and
then
they
they
can
be
much
more
efficient,
as
well
as
with
the
retrofitting
and
the
insulation.
People
not
having
to
put
the
heating
on,
as
we
heard
in
those
testimonials
but
they're,
no
good
for
back-to-backs,
so
it
has
to
be
it
can't
be
one
size
fits
all,
has
to
be
a
range
of
ground
source,
air
source
insulation,
but
materials.
F
First
approach
means
that
we
can
make
those
improvements,
and
you
know
when,
when
myself
and
councillor
rafiq
were
down
in
the
recreations
with
the
mayor
and
a
mother
that
we
with
four
children
that
we
spoke
to,
she
said
her.
Children
can
now
do
their
homework
in
the
bedroom.
So
it's
not
even
just
health
and
well-being,
it's
educational
and
therefore
employment
opportunities
in
the
future
and
whole
life,
a
whole
quality
of
life
for
everyone
in
the
family,
so
I'll
leave
it
there.
But
just
huge
thank
you
to
the
officers
for
those
presentations.
A
Opening
it
up
to
questions,
do
you
either
counsel
rafiq?
Does
he
want
to
say
anything
at
all,
not.
K
Great
deal,
but
just
to
add
on
what
council
hayden
said,
I
think
I
think
it's
the
work
we've
done
in
in
the
whole,
the
group
scheme
is
excellent.
I
think
there
are.
There
are
obviously
given
what
mark
has
said
there
are.
There
are
some
great
challenges,
particularly
in
the
private
sector
given,
given
that
69
of
the
homes
are
unoccupied
and
without
grounds
we
we
can't.
K
We
can't
you,
know,
sort
of
force,
people
to
kind
of,
and
many
of
those
are
in
in
in
you
know,
sort
of
inner
city
areas
as
well
terrace
houses,
and
so
that's
the
challenge
we
have.
It
is
somewhat
sort
of
easy
for
us
to.
You
know
whether
it's
through
selective
licensing,
like
we've
done
recently
in
inner
east
and
and
in
in
beeston,
to
work
with
the
landlords
just
to
you
know
to
to
find
a
way
forward.
K
It's
not
you
know
so
much
with
with
the
owner
occupied
properties
with
regard
to
our
own
housing.
I
think,
as
name
is
outlined,
we
we
we've
got
a
very
ambitious
but
one
of
the
biggest
capital
investment
programs
we've
ever
taken,
and
I
think,
by
the
end
of
june,
we'll
have
out
of
the
105
high
rise
building,
we'll
have
about
nearly
60
completed,
which
I
think
is
a
testament
to
some
of
the
work
that's
going
on
in
the
city.
I
think
it's
still
a
long
way
to
go.
K
It's
not
just
the
high
rises.
This
is
our
other
housing
as
well,
but
I
think
whether
it's
we
work
we're
doing
around
energy
efficiency
that
you
do
cover,
but
also
the
life
cycle
replacements.
K
D
I've
been
in
danger,
I
think,
of
repeating
other
chair
for
spot
too
long,
but
just
I
suppose
just
to
say
briefly
that
clearly
this
is
an
important
agenda
for
us
all
and
I
think
the
three
reports
that
you've
heard
today
show
the
the
great
work
that's
been
done,
but
also
emphasizes,
I
think,
the
scale
and
complexity
of
the
challenge
that
we
have
when
you
look
at
the
stock
that
we've
got
both
in
the
public
and
the
private
sector,
and
really
welcome
members
sort
of
thoughts
and
consideration
about
how
we
move
forward.
B
Thank
you
for
these
reports.
I
think
it's
really.
It's
really
good
to
see
that
we
are
doing
a
lot
of
work
in
leeds
and
enhancing
the
lives
of
our
residents.
I
would
like
to
say:
I've
been
proud
to
to
represent
lincoln
green,
which
is
one
of
the
priority
areas.
That's
had
those
improvements
in
in
roxbus,
and
I've
heard
residents
saying
that
that
it
is
a
lot
better,
also
in
saxton
gardens
and
in
other
parts
of
eber
gardens.
B
That's
had
the
pipes,
you
know
their
bills
have
come
down
massively
and
the
houses
are
a
warmer.
B
E
Thanks
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
reports
are
really
interesting
and
helpful
to
understand
why
exactly
exactly
how
intensive
it's
been,
and
things
like
that,
so
I
was
wondering
how
many
private
rented
sector
homes
are
without
central
heating
and
whether
those
those
private
rented
sector
homes
can
be
targeted
for
intervention.
E
I
know
that
I
know
that
you
sort
of
touched
on
it,
but
I
was,
I
was
just
wondering
if
that's
been
measured
and
what
sort
of
actions
are
in
the
background,
obviously
running
running
electric
heaters
is
really
expensive
and
not
the
best
the
best
use
of
energy.
So
I
was
just
wondering
thank
you.
G
In
terms
of
exact
numbers,
we
don't
fully
know.
What
we
do
know
is
that
the
higher
or
the
lower
energy-rated
properties
are
in
the
inner
cities.
Hence
the
projects
that
we're
doing
in
her
hills,
beeston
and
holbeck.
We
also
know
that
you
tend
not
to
complain
to
us
about
you,
not
just
you
can't
the
fact
that
you
haven't
got
heating,
but
also
the
fact
that
your
property
isn't
suitable
or
his
problems
with
it.
G
Why,
when
we're
crossing
the
threshold
in
every
single
property
and
beast
in
the
hills,
like
council
figures,
said
we're
picking
up
those
standards,
we
know
that
people
don't
complain
because
of
fear.
If
you
tend
to
be
in
a
property
with
no
essential
heating,
you
tend
to
be
in
the
lowest
level
of
the
rental
market.
You
tend
not
to
come
to
us,
so
we
have
to
go
and
find
you.
G
We
have
got
data,
we
do
use
the
intelligence
to
target
it,
but
we
do
know
it's
in
those
areas
and
hence
why
selective
licensing
allows
us
to
cross
that
threshold
and
get
in
and
not
just
address
the
issues
of
as
it's
been
described
earlier.
It
allows
us
to
address
people's
issues
around
their
income,
get
them
support
for
green
doctrine
to
support
if
they
have
got
it,
but
don't
know
how
to
use
it.
G
G
We
know
where
it
is,
but
if
we
come
across
a
property,
we
have
a
duty.
This
is
the
bottom
line
under
part,
one
of
the
housing
act
to
address
excess
cold
and
if
you
haven't
got
it
in,
if
you
fail
that
it
could,
you
could
have
the
wrong
central
heating.
So
this
case
law
that
says
somebody
who's
got
electric
heating
in
which
was
too
expensive
to
put
in.
Therefore,
it
was
still
met
the
criteria
for
excess
cold.
G
Hence
why
at
the
moment
everybody
puts
gas
central
heating,
which
is
great
for
fuel
poverty
and
your
bills,
although
that
is
going
up,
but
in
great
for
decarbonisation.
So
that's
why
there
is
that
balance
between
you
know.
Are
we
decarbonizing
or
redis
addressing
but
yeah
we
deal
with
it
all
the
time.
G
J
Thank
you
chair.
Yes,
three
excellent
papers.
Thanks
to
all
the
officers,
all
the
papers
were
interlinked,
which
we
knew
they
were
going
to
be,
and
I'd
like
to
put
my
personal
thanks
on
for
all
the
works
going
on
in
a
pudgy
ward
in
the
rycroft's
tower
blocks,
and
I
visited
them
on
friday
and
everybody
seems
really
really
pleased.
J
The
works
are
going
well
and
we've
had
a
few
teething
issues
as
you
do,
but
I
think
it's
a
new
program
for
everybody
and
I
think,
everybody's
learning
lessons
as
we
move
along
even
small
things
like
putting
shoe
covers
on
when
you
go
into
buildings,
is
something
that
we
all
need
to
learn
because,
let's
be
honest,
when
you're
on
a
building
site.
The
last
thing
you
do
is
put
shoe
covers
on
so
yeah.
J
It
sounds
silly,
but
it's
great
that
you
know
the
the
teams
are
learning
this
and
and
the
residents
are
benefiting
from
it.
I'd
love
to
see,
obviously,
finances
permitting,
but
an
insulation
program
following
on
which
I
know
is,
is
going
to
happen,
but
it
obviously
it
needs
to
the
finance
needs
to
come
forward
and
where
we
get.
That
from
is
you
know,
obviously
a
problem.
J
I
suggested
in
the
pre-meeting
that
this
this
scrutiny
board
writes
a
letter
to
government
the
current
program
that
we
have
for
solar
pv
for
households
with
an
income
of
less
than
30
000.
I'd
love
to
see
that
increase
to
40,
000
or
even
45
000,
and
I
appreciate
that
that's
that's
got
to
be
something.
J
That's
that's
got
to
go
to
come
higher
up
than
any
of
us,
and
but
I
think
that
that's
more
reasonable
and
I'd
love
to
to
to
see
us
do
that
as
a
scrutiny
board
and
really
try
and
lift
as
many
people
as
we
can
out
of
out
of
that
fuel
poverty
and
creating
our
own
electricity
as
part
of
the
fuel
poverty
and
as
part
of
the
decarbonisation
I
noticed.
J
One
of
the
slides
was
a
sap
rating
review
and
and
I'd
love
to
see
that
updated
after
the
works
and
brought
back
as
well.
Please,
if,
if
that's
possible
and
I'll
leave
it
there
for
other
people,
thank
you.
C
Thank
you.
It's
just
going
back
to
support
for
residents
and
there's,
obviously
a
lot
of
information
available
that
would
be
helpful
to
all
our
residents.
C
Is
there
any
way
that
we
could
have
a
direct
link
on
the
front
page
of
our
council
website
that
people
can
access,
because
it
is
hard
to
navigate
the
best
of
times,
but
this
is
an
issue
that's
going
to
affect
most
most
of
our
residents,
if
not
all
of
them.
So
if
they
have
something
that's
straight
there
as
soon
as
they
go
on
the
website
to
direct
them,
I
think
that
would
probably
be
a
big
help.
B
Just
thing
that
we
talked
in
the
pre-meeting
was
the
issue
of
the
housing
officers
going
in
and
and
calling
on,
council
tenants
and
the
the
home
visits
are
as
robust
as
what
they
were
and-
and
I
accept
the
issue
of
corvid
and
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
But
if
we
can't
you
know,
that's
our
primary
aim
of
getting
through
over
that
threshold
and
identifying
is
that
resident,
putting
the
heat
in
and
I've
I've
got
some
problems
with
it.
So
I'd
like
to
see
some
some
firming
up
of
those
home
visits.
A
A
The
the
issues
that
I
think
we
need
to
look
at-
and
it's
going
to
be
difficult
in
the
short
term,
is
how
we
monitor
the
improvements
that
are
going
to
come
from
it,
because
there
is
that
you
know
you
won't
be
able
to
prove
any
vast
improvement
in
terms
of
costs
of
running
the
the
schemes
just
now,
no
matter
how
hard
you
try,
you
will
be
able
to
do
that.
If,
however,
there
is
some
way
of
collecting
the
usage,
that's
might
be
one
way
to
save
people,
although
their
bills
are
costing
them
more.
A
If
they're
using
less
of
the
product,
then
I
think
that
would
be
a
tick,
and
it's
just
to
think
about
in
the
future
once
we
in
the
hope
that
we
do
get
to
the
end
of
the
current
problems,
energy
problems,
we've
got
that
how
you
can
monitor
it
so
that
you
can
come
back
to
us
and
say
right.
We've
now
saved
x
amount
of
this.
The
residents
have
now
being
on
a
downward
slope
in
terms
of
their
usage
to
energy.
A
Energy
usage
is
coming
down
which
meets
our
climate
emergency
provisions
because
there's
obviously
less
carbon.
So
we're
getting
closer
to
zero
carbon
date
doesn't
matter
whether
it's
20
30,
20,
34,
38,
50,
40
or
whatever.
A
It
is
we're
moving
in
the
correct
direction,
and
it
will
help
that
the
other
thing
I
was
going
to
say
is:
I
think
we
do
need
to
make
sure
that
at
the
next
neighborhood
improvement
boards
that
we
maybe
start
putting
an
agenda
item
on
as
to
what's
happening
in
those
neighborhood
improvement
areas
to
improve
the
energy
efficiency,
and
if
anything
more
could
be
done
and
also.
I
know
that
we
do
have
a
lot
of
oven,
ready
schemes,
but
have
we
got
oven,
ready
schemes
in
these
neighborhood
improvement
areas?
A
Have
we
you
know
so
that
we're
actually
ready
at
the
the
point
that
councilor
reagan
made?
I
think
it's
it's,
how
you
do
the
efficient
use
of
the
new
systems,
you're
teaching,
you're
tutoring
people
how
to
use
them
just
now,
but
by
the
time
the
peak
comes
in
october
november.
Will
some
people
have
forgotten
how
to
operate?
A
You
know:
when,
should
you
have
your
windows
open?
When
should
you
be?
Where
should
you
be
drying
clothes
and
various
other
things
like
that?
That
cause
all
sorts
of
issues
and
people
may
be
put
heating,
especially
over
or
they'll
put
clothes
over
the
top
of
the
heater.
You
know
in
terms
of
the
efficiency
and
the
effectiveness
of
these
things.
Now,
just
one
thing
you
mentioned:
there's
going
to
be
the
decent
homes
in
the
private
rented
sector.
A
Do
you
think
the
government
are
going
to
set
a
minimum
standards
that
you
can
enforce
against
so
that,
if
you're
to
take
councillor
brooks's
point,
you
know
that
if
you're
going
into
a
house-
and
there
is
no
central
heating,
what
levers
are
there
or
what
levers?
Would
you
like
to
see
to
enable
you
to
not
exactly
compel
but
find
a
way
of
pushing
the
landlord
to
do
something
about
it?.
E
I
I
would
push
for
expanding
selective
licensing
across
the
whole
city.
To
be
honest,
I
know
I
know
that
the
government
is
not
in
favor
of
a
whole
city
area
being,
but
I
think
if
we
can,
if
we
can
illustrate
that,
there's
a
very
big
problem
across
the
city,
because
I
know
it's
not
just
going
to
be
a
problem
in
the
inner
area,
it
could
also
be
in
pockets
of
the
outer
area
as
well.
I
think
that
would
be
a
really
good
way
of
tackling
that.
G
G
What
we
have
had
initial
conversations
with
the
civil
servants
in
governments
about
what
exactly
it
will
look
like
they
are
talking
about
minimum
standards,
but
we
don't
know
what
in
and
what
they
will
cover.
There
is
a
currently
a
review
of
hazard
rating
part
one
being
undertaken,
and
there
was
talk
again
in
that
about
minimum
standards.
G
There's
talk
about,
potentially
you
have
to
meet
the
decency
decent
home
standard
in
order
to
rent
your
property.
There's
a
lot
of
talk.
What
we
don't
know
is
the
detail,
and
until
we
see
the
white
paper,
we
won't
know
exactly
what
the
thinking
is
behind
government.
G
It
does
have
the
thermal
comfort
element,
but
if
you
read
the
thermal
comfort
element,
it
doesn't
really
give
a
lot
of
detail.
He
talks
about
affordable
heating
and
suitable
insulation.
It
doesn't
actually
give
us
detail
as
to
what
that
means.
What
we
don't
need
from
anything.
That's
new.
Is
it's
contradictory
to
what
comes
out
in
the
energy
bill?
G
So
if
it's
going
to
be,
you
can't
rent
your
property
to
unless
it's
epcc
that
surely
should
be
the
equivalent
in
the
standard
for
thermal
comfort.
Otherwise,
what
we'll
end
up
with
is
what
we've
got
now
is
one's
asking
one
thing
one's
asking
another
going
back
to
holdback
when
we
were
told
to
change
the
ps
pas
stands
so
past
20
to
30.
G
We
looked
at
it
and
our
first
concerns
were:
we
are
going
to
create
catalan
hazards
for
people
living
in
those
properties,
so
we're
going
to
look
at
piloting
two
properties
to
actually
understand
what
it
actually
means.
In
reality,
we
do
lobby
governments
about
it
in
terms
of
the
standard.
We
just
have
to
wait
for
the
white
paper
to
be
honest,
but
we
are
raising
all
the
issues
that
you've
raised
here
about.
A
If
we,
you
do
get
more
powers
and
enforcement
action
can
be
taken.
How
ready
would
you
be
to
be
able
to
start
running
with
that?
Because
one
of
the
things
I've
heard
a
lot
about
ground
source
heat
pumps
is
they're
great,
but
there
aren't
that
many
people
in
this
country
who
are
actually
trained
to
actually
install
them
and
if
you
were
given
the
powers,
have
you
got
well,
I
know
you've
not
got.
A
I
know
you've
not
got
enough
staff
to
be
able
to
go
out
and
enforce
it
in
the
various
private
rented
sector.
So
how
can
we
as
a
council,
prepare
for
that
eventuality
so
that
you
can?
We
can
start
going
to
the
colleges
or
wherever
it
is
to
get
people
trained
up
so
that
you
can
then
employ
them
and
take
them?
Is
there
anything
we
can
do
or
is
this
pie
in
the
sky
and
me
and
wishful
thinking.
G
It's
very
difficult
to
prepare
for
something
we
don't
know
what
it
is
to
be
honest
in
reality,
with
leads
is
always
it
hasn't
continues
to
be
consulted
by
civil
servants
about
how
you
implement
it.
So
we
do
have
a
heads
up.
In
general,
we
talk
to
the
universities
about
the
next
generation
because
he's
part
of
succession
planning
we
well,
I
won't.
We
will
all
be
here,
for
you
know
forever.
G
G
G
A
You
know
the
the
council
will
be
in
demand,
and
so
all
the
private
rented
sector
and
it's?
How
do
we
get
that
right?
Because
this
is
a
national
problem?
It's
not
just
a
leak.
G
If
I
go
back
to
my
slides,
one
of
the
real
issues
is
the
lack
of
long-term
sustainable
funding
for
this.
So
you
will
get
businesses
gearing
up
the
funding
stops.
They
don't
continue
with
it.
If
you
look
at
past
20
30
to
35,
there
were
only
something
like
260
qualified
people
that
could
actually
implement
that
new
standard,
and
all
of
them
were,
shall
we
say,
we're
very
busy.
So
it
is
it's
about
the
long-term
sustainability
of
the
program.
You
need
long-term
sustainability
funding.
You
need
a
guarantee
of
that.
You
need
the
bit.
G
Therefore,
people
will
gear
up
and
do
the
training,
because
it
isn't
straightforward
to
do
that.
If
you
have
that
supply
chain-
and
you
build
that
up,
then
you
also
your
costs
will
come
down
because
more
people
are
doing
it.
Therefore,
your
costs
come
down
because
this
the
supply
and
demand
equation
at
the
moment
you've
got
an
awful
lot
of.
G
Issues
coming
out
from
government
about
what
they
would
like
to
do,
but
there
isn't
the
actual
supply
chain
or
there
isn't
the
training
and
that's
something
that
definitely
needs
to
be
addressed.
But
you
only
do
that
if
companies
have
the
go
of
the
I'll
guarantee
these
the
wrong
word,
but
have
the
confidence
that
that
is
going
to
be
sustainable,
because
what
we
find
is,
if
you
look
at
holdback
the
funding
is
we
look
for
it
and
it
doesn't
necessarily
fit
the
agenda
to
which
we're
talking
about
here.
G
It
will
fit
other
agendas,
but
there
are
gaps,
so
it
costs
us
to
close
a
site
open,
a
site,
additional
cost.
If
we
had
consistent
funding,
you
can
continually
do
it.
You
know
where
you're
going.
You
can
reduce
the
funds.
You
can
reduce
your
overall
costs,
but
you
also
get
the
guarantee
in
the
fact
that
people
will
have
the
confidence
to
train
and
manage.
If
you
know
that
something
is
going
to
be
long-term
sustainable,
you
can
buy
the
products
and
materials
in
advance
and
you
therefore
overall
get
reduced
costs.
A
Again
sorry
about
this,
because
normally
I
can
just
sit
and
I
can
keep
my
mic
on
all
the
time,
but
because
the
system's
not
working,
it's
not
very
easy,
so
yeah.
What
I
was
saying
is,
I
think
we
do
need
to
start
working
up
where
we're
going
to
lever
in
private
sector
funding.
A
Yes,
the
pr
the
public
sector
has
got
a
big
to
go,
but
I
know
from
attending
a
number
of
seminars
that
there
are
a
lot
of
private
people
out
there
who
are
looking
to
invest
and
one
or
two
organizations
are
starting
to
develop
green
bonds.
Now
they're
not
taken
off
to
any
great
extent,
because
they're
only
offering
returns,
maybe
one
or
two
percent,
which
I
know
is
greater
than
a
lot
of
other
accounts.
But
I
think
some
people
to
put
funding
in
need
to
see
that
they're
going
to
get
a
return
on
it.
A
A
It
can
come
with
my
signature
on
it,
but
I
think
it'd
be
good
to
come
from
the
scrutiny
chair
and
the
two
exec
members
who
are
present
here
today,
because
it
then
shows
that
it's
well
cross-party,
because
scrutiny
is
doing
it
and
it
will
help
to
add
weight
to
it.
So
what
I
would
ask
is
if
officers
could
come
up
with
some
suggested
content
for
that
letter
and
then
pass
it
to
the
three
or
two
of
us,
depending
on
what's
happening
after
the
elections,
so
that
we
can
actually
again
get
that
sent
down.
A
We
can
get
it
done
beforehand,
good
and
well,
but
there's
other
priorities,
probably
just
now,
but
I
think
it
would
be
better
if
it
come
across
party-
and
you
know
it's
probably
the
way
forward
and
then
the
final
thing
is
the
website.
A
I'm
relatively
lucky,
in
that
I
used
to
sit
on
the
fuel
poverty
group
that
we
had.
So
I
was
given
a
number
of
links
to
various
websites.
So
if
I'm
going
to
meet
some
of
my
residents,
I
can
point
them
in
the
right
direction.
A
Some
people
fill
forms
out
to
get
things
moving,
even
so
that
it's
even
making
referrals
back
into
the
various
council
things
because
we,
as
councillors,
are
probably
going
to
have
the
closest
contact
with
people
over
the
current
financial
crisis.
Because
we're
going
to
see
people
at
surgeries
on
doorsteps,
sending
us
emails-
and
you
know
I
do
think
it's
something
that
maybe
is
from
a
scrutiny
perspective.
We
can
look
at
the
final
thing
we
need
to
make
a
decision
on
is
the
point.
A
J
Thank
you
happy
to
endorse,
but
have
we
got
any
mechanism
to
put
a
charge
on
private
properties
so
that,
because
I'm
not
asking
private
owners
to
pay
up
front,
because
very
few
people
have
got
that
kind
of
money,
but
is
it
possible
to
put
a
charge
on
the
property
so
that
a
percentage
of
that
money
when
sold
the
property
sold
comes
back
into
our
coffers
so
that
we
can
then
reinvest
that
somewhere
else?
I
Not
that
I'm
aware
of
currently
chair
it's
it's
something.
It
sounds
like
something
similar
to
the
old
green
deal
from
from
a
few
years
ago,
but
I
mean
part
of
building.
The
business
case
is
to
look
into
funding
mechanisms.
We'd
want
to
seek
to
attract
as
many
different
forms
of
funding
as
possible,
so
that
would
certainly
be
something
that
would
be
good
to
consider.
G
As
part
of
the
finance
model
that
we
use
for
holdback
private
owners
well
owner
occupiers,
pay
a
up
to
25,
subject
to
attest
to
resources
and
you'll,
probably
gather
most,
don't
pay
anything
landlords
payment
have
to
pay
25
straight,
there's
no
discussion,
so
they
pay
25
of
the
money
now.
So
they
pay
roughly
10
of
the
costs
of
the
scheme
and
that's
built
into
it.
So
they
contribute
anyway,
it's
part
of
them
signing
up.
G
F
Just
to
go
back
to
the
suggestion
that,
on
the
front
of
the
website,
which
I
think
was
an
excellent
suggestion,
there
is
on
the
front
of
the
website,
it
says,
benefit
and
support,
which
is
whereas
affordable
warmth
comes
under
if
we
couldn't
just
if
it
came
from
from
the
scrutiny
chair,
and
it
says,
information
and
advice
on
housing
benefit,
council
tax
support
and
free
school
meals,
if
it
just
got
added
in
on
in
that
sentence,
and
it
wouldn't
need
changing
that.
Actually,
that's
where
you
go
to
for
affordable.
H
I
just
wanted
to
add
that
there
has
been
a
significant
increase
in
the
cost
of
materials,
so
in
terms
of
the
ambition
and
the
plan
that
we
have,
that
is
being
impacted
on
by
the
increase
in
costs.
So
just
as
an
example,
the
cost
of
external
wall
insulation
of
the
last
couple
of
months
has
doubled.
So
you
know
our
money
is
not
stretching
as
far
as
it
was
previously,
and
that
might
be
something
that
you
may
wish
to
cover
in
the
letter.
A
Presentations,
it
shows
the
quality
of
what
we've
got
and
what
we're
trying
to
do.
So.
Thank
you
very
much
and
if
any
of
your
team
aren't
here
who
have
been
here
in
the
past,
do
thank
them
for
their
work
and
effort
that
we've
put
in.
Thank
you.
C
The
main
issues
to
note
under
the
work
schedule
on
page
52,
there
is
a
list
of
provisional
dates
for
2223,
subject
to
the
usual
caveats,
in
terms
of
it
being
for
the
successor
board
to
to
formally
agree.
But
if
you
could
take
a
note,
if
you
are
likely
to
be
on
the
board
next
year
and
that's
where
they
are
and
there's
also
a
summary
of
the
network.
Rail
vegetation
management
site
visit
on
page
59
members
will
recall.
You
did
discuss
that
at
the
last
meeting.
But
we
said
we'd
bring
something
formal
through.
C
And
finally,
there
is
a
statement
of
progress
on
the
future
of
waste
services
inquiry
and
which
you
recall
has
been
paused
due
to
a
number
of
items
about
standing
information
which
were
beyond
the
council's
control,
and
the
recommendation
was
that
that
should
be
picked
up
when
the
information
is
available
in
the
coming
year.
And
the
letter
that
was
proposed
for
george
eustis
is
on
page
75
and
has
gone
from
both
councillor
scopes
and
councillor.
Anderson.
A
I'll
need
to
go
to
training
courses,
because
I'm
so
used
to
just
pressing
the
button
and
my
light
stays
on
all
the
time.
Okay
right,
what
I
was
going
to
do
at
this
stage
was
to
formally
thank
two
councillors
who
have
been
members
of
this
board,
who
won't
be
returning
because
they,
you
know
they
won't.
It
counts
to
gabriel
and
castle
charlotte
for
the
effort
that
they've
put
in
over
the
years.
A
I've
known
cancer
gabriel
in
particular,
since
I
first
came
into
council,
and
we
discussed
and
she's
done
a
lot
for
her
area
and
she's
always
corrected
me
on
the
distance
between
beaston
and
beeston
hill.
It's
one
of
the
jokes
that
we've
got
between
the
two
of
us,
but
she
will
be
missed
and,
on
a
lighter
note,
her
ability
on
council
day
to
bring
in
jams
etcetera
to
keep
all
of
us
happy.
A
It
was
second
to
none
and
council
charwood
again
who
has
had
executive
roles
in
the
council,
and
I
think,
by
a
lot
of
people,
a
lot
of
listening
to
a
lot
of
counselors.
She
has
been
one
of
the
better
people
in
that
particular
role.
Counselor
harrend
was
excellent
in
that
role,
and
I
think
council
charlewood
has
proved
her
value
and
worth
in
what
she's
done.
A
So
my
thanks
to
all
them
and
just
wanted
that
formally
put
on,
but
the
other
one
is
to
thank
becky
for
those
of
you
who
aren't
aware
there's
another
swap
around
going
on
as
to
who's
going
to
look
after
which
board
next
year.
So
if
you
are
back
on
this
board,
becky
will
not
be
the
officer
looking
after,
but
again
can
I
thank
becky
for
her
work.
A
Working
with
me
is
challenging
because
I
am
very
demanding
and
expect
you
know
high
workloads
and
chasing
after
things
and
chasing
after
officers
all
the
time
and
we've
worked
well
together.
She's
produced
everything
on
time
and
when
we've
not
been
able
to
get
things
done
in
time,
we've
been
able
to
come
up
with
ways
forward
in
order
to
keep
the
the
board
going
along.
So
can
I
formally
thank
becky
for
what
you've
done,
and
hopefully
she
enjoys
the
new
roles
that
she's
going
to
be
taking
on
next
year.
A
So
that
just
leads
me
to
say
that,
hopefully
we
are
all
back
together
on
the
23rd
of
june,
but
the
electorate
might
have
something
to
say
about
that,
as
our
own
parties
may
have,
if
whether
or
not
we
get
re-pointed
back
to
the
to
these
boards,
but
can
I
thank
you
all
for
the
effort
you've
put
in
this
year.
It's
been
excellent.
Yes,
we've
had
one
or
two
political
debates,
but
in
the
main
I
think
this
scrutiny
board
has
been
an
example
of
what
can
happen
cross-party,
support
working
together.
A
Yes,
this
challenge,
and
hopefully
the
officers,
have
also
enjoyed
the
challenge
that
we've
given
them
as
well
this
year
in
that
when
they
come
here,
they're
not
going
to
get
an
easy
ride,
they're
going
to
be
challenged
and
asked
to
justify
and
explain
why
they're
doing
things
so
with
that,
can
I
thank
you
all
for
your
effort
that
you've
put
in
this
year
and
to
james?
Can
you
go
back
and-
and
you
know
let
your
officers
know
that
we
have
appreciated
the
work
and
effort
that
they've
done.
Thank
you
all
very
much.